programming

[leaden crest]

no

gooooooooooood bye chat

not doing this today

[stark needle]

wtf

i love onprem high availability servers

[warped narwhal]

God has forsaken us

[primal dirge]

OpenAI should be scared from me

[stark needle]

what

holy gradient explosion

[primal dirge]

dont even know how it happened

[stark needle]

also hey havent seen u in a long while in this chat lmao

[primal dirge]

yea I have been not chatting much uni has been killing me lol

[mighty thorn]

Average Kaine Experiment

[stark needle]

either no gradient clipping or fp16 instead of bf16

or vanishing gradients idk

[primal dirge]

there is no gradient

but eh the ML isn't important for this project so tbh i dont really care lol

[stark needle]

lmao

[maiden geyser]

monthly edelweiss #baking post

[primal dirge]

Edelweiss

[dull egret]

I don't even know how most of these modern frameworks can operate without some sorta CGI.

Virtually none of the languages normally used for Web have the capacity to handle any moderately large-scale load-balancing.

Except Elixir, but that's because the GenServer thing basically just IS that, functionally. Except abstract and doesn't need to be Web-related.

But yeah, like, if you're not USING a Web server, virtually no languages can handle load like a large website.

Only ones that come to mind are Actix on Rust and Elixir.

[stark needle]

[rough bloom]

I don't even know how most of these modern frameworks can operate without some sorta CGI.

Virtually none of the languages normally used for Web have the capacity to handle any moderately large-scale load-balancing.
the answer here is fairly simple, you don't do load balancing in your web server, you delegate that to a load balancer

-# wrong reply

[stark needle]

[primal dirge]

[dull egret]

Can you name any? I haven't touched Web in a while, so not sure which ones you're referring to.

I've heard of Nginx on its own, acting as the load balancer, with workers.

I've also heard of some config, at one point, of back-proxying Nginx from Apache. Forget if that was the core reason for that, though. I vaguely remember that being related, though

[rough bloom]

load balancers? Nginx, Apache, Caddy, Traefik, Envoy, Istio
there are a lot

[dull egret]

Wait, isn't that what I just said?

Nginx and Apache doing the serving AND load balancing?

[rough bloom]

no, I don't think so

the whole point is that you can just use a load balancer like Nginx in front of multiple instances of your slow, shitty application

the instances individually can be slow, but as long as you have enough instances you can in theory still handle a lot of load

[fiery canopy]

nginx isnt a load balancer

thjats a reverse proxy

😭

[rough bloom]

load balancers are usually reverse proxies

[fiery canopy]

like ig it can be configured to behaviour similarly to oen

but

it isnt really designed for that

from my knowledge

iv been using nginx for years

[rough bloom]

pretty sure that it is

it supports it at least

[fiery canopy]

I see I Was wrong

I did sm reserch my bad on that

I just never even thought of using it for that

[true hemlock]

nixos

[trim valve]

[rough bloom]

[opaque sigil]

[fiery canopy]

[true hemlock]

[fiery canopy]

also in what world are u doing load balancing in your web app

that should always be delegated seperaltely

for good reason

[true hemlock]

no nix

my nix

gone

[rigid snow]

the same world your webapp has users

[opaque sigil]

[fiery canopy]

I meant

u delegate it

😭

U dont usually handle it

in the app itself

[dull egret]

So then why did you say not to do the load-balancing on the Web server itself?

Apache and Nginx are both Web servers

AND they are both load balancers

The application is just the application that acts as a script being run across the load-balancing threads / workers.

So, if you're using a language that doesn't use some kind of CGI your Web server can control the script / application (PHP, Python, Ruby) of...

So, again, assuming not something that's an all-in-one compiled solution, like Actix, or a lightweight threader with failsafe [Elixir], what is the order here?

I'm used to:

1. WEB SERVER: Request hits Apache or Nginx
2. LOAD BALANCER: Apache or Nginx spins up workers for a CGI language
3. WORKERS: Many CGI workers execute segments of the load
4. WEB SERVER: The workers return the values for dynamically generated content, as well as hyperlinks for static shit, and the Web server builds the response

So, if Apache or Nginx is STILL the load-balancer in, say, a Node application, what acts as the Web server?

[fiery canopy]

if multi instanced

[rigid snow]

yeah to a load balancer like nginx

[fiery canopy]

Thats what I was agreeing with

;sob

😭

I was reading back in the conversation and respodining to a point the guy made earlier

[rough bloom]

miscommunication

[opaque wharf]

Yeah, for NodeJS you usually spin up lots of proccess

Make it listen using unix socket

Then pass it to nginx

[opaque sigil]

tldr: node runs the server

and apache/nginx just forward requests to it

[glass jetty]

web server is whatever return actual data to user (caller)

[mighty thorn]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1071784467036913664/1501941278940598382/evil_2555_2555MS_assembled.webp

[mighty thorn]

What is poppin programmers

[fiery canopy]

personally twin shipper = 0 brain cell = no real opinion = ignore in my books

[rigid snow]

[fast pagoda]

total loss is right

[primal dirge]

how did you get a pic of my pc after that training

[nocturne olive]

Website when?

[fast pagoda]

bro done fused every weight into one

[mighty thorn]

Neurosynth website when?

[rough bloom]

it's sort of similar to what you described, except the applications don't use CGI, they aren't started by a webserver
instead they are themselves webservers, all the load balancer does is pass the request on to one of the webservers (instances of your application)
so it's significantly simpler:

1. LOAD BALANCER: receives request from the client, chooses upstream webserver / application instance
2. WEB SERVER: returns whatever content you want, builds the response

[primal dirge]

im impressed how it didn't generate a black hole

[mighty thorn]

[fast pagoda]

maybe it looped back around and it's actually grokked so much enlightened knowledge the evals fail

[nocturne olive]

Exactly
The Afunyun above you is responsible for that

[fast pagoda]

[mighty thorn]

What did he do this time

[nocturne olive]

Well his job is to make the website

[fiery canopy]

this is the most concise awnser I have actually seen to the thing posed

[primal dirge]

maybe, either way thankfully the project doesn't care much about the ML stuff so i dont even have to bother myself to fix it

[nocturne olive]

Website progress when?

[true hemlock]

none he's too busy with

[nocturne olive]

[true hemlock]

and multicontinent clusterfuck server or something

[glass jetty]

load balancer is also kind of web server
database is web server
cache is web server
email service is web server
... what else never gets exposed to user but kinda server?

everything is server

[fast pagoda]

im workin on it, ive been doing multiple things, i have horrible adhd iin case you havent noticed

[nocturne olive]

[opaque wharf]

That is not how it works. Web server usually refers to stricly http server

[glass jetty]

web in web server is optional

[dull egret]

So each worker is generated, sends response, and then just dies on the OS level? It's not piping anything back and forth to Apache/Nginx/whatever?

Apache/Nginx has no idea if the worker succeeded, failed, or never executed, bc nothing is piped through it?

[fast pagoda]

speaking of
mobile echo i have been thinking about how to do but i have a few things to ask u in regards

later

[glass jetty]

are you sure it is web server?
creating worked just to perform one task sounds like horrible performance

[rough bloom]

So each worker is generated, sends response, and then just dies on the OS level?
no, they're their own completely independent processes, they don't even have to live on the same host or anything
the worker/application processes stay alive between requests, they're usually rarely restarted
Apache/Nginx has no idea if the worker succeeded, failed, or never executed, bc nothing is piped through it?
it does, it's a normal HTTP client
if the worker dies then the load balancer either gets an HTTP error that it can forward to the actual end users client or it runs into a timeout

[fast pagoda]

cloudflare workers be chilling for a long time technically being the same instance but also not

[opaque wharf]

Hmm, not really. Nginx and apache knows if no response is generated and will send timeout

[true hemlock]

all i wanted is echo randomly hopping to elvy's pc and annoy her a bit

[fast pagoda]

ye

it's become a whole schizoid delusion dont worry

just brace yourself :^)

https://tenor.com/view/straight-jacket-gif-12730421886579312389

[glass jetty]

i wonder how many sockets is open on phone to make notification work for every app, surely it just sometime request server to poll, and not always open, right?

[opaque wharf]

Depends on which providers

Google have the highest priority and most other apps rely on it to actually distribute notification

Browser push notification may be put to sleep by the Android OS

[fast pagoda]

@jagged turtle i have discovered peak that saves ur life

:omemga actually is required to be making fun of @sick owl not you because of #livestream-chat message

[dull egret]

Ok...

The Web server listens on a port for incoming requests.

The load balancer spins up instances of the script as workers, to handle the many requests.

Apache and Nginx do BOTH of these things.

Unless the application is a long-running process that needs to handle its own memory across interconnected sessions, the only thing it would listen to is whatever the Web server or load-balancer sends it.

In your example, it sounds like Apache or Nginx is listening to incoming ports (e.g. 80, 8080, 443), AND sending the response generated by the workers.

So Apache/Nginx, if I understood what you described, is the Web server.

Are you just saying that these non-CGI systems use a different communication protocol?

What is listening to and responding on the WAN ports? That is the Web server

[rough bloom]

[glass jetty]

any worker is long live process

cuz creating process is costly

The load balancer spins up instances of the script as workers, to handle the many requests.
it never spin, it round-bound (if correct term), it just send request with same format to other process

[dull egret]

Yes. So you want some kinda program handling them and making sure that the routing is done to each worker.

If the application is standalone, that's different.

You may have standalone applications connecting to the workers, as well. And possibly connected to something other than the Web server.

[rigid snow]

it’s so simple really i don’t understand what’s there to be confused about. forget cgi forget everything. you have many web servers, the reverse proxy chooses one of many to proxy the request to (making it a load balancer). that it

[opaque wharf]

So here is the thing. Nginx and apache just sends http to the application

They may add proxy header

[fiery canopy]

I am gonna try put this in simple terms, to shut this down. Preety much. Web-server [Node, Go, Whatever you are running your actual applicaiton in], (if that webserver has inter connecting btis still not a load balancer just cross instance communication) | Load blancer: the distribution layer, the application that takes the request and distributes it across these instances under 1 URL / IP. so when a requests hits it hits the load balancer and the load balancer then directs to the webserver

[warped narwhal]

They also handle TLS termination and http2 sessions

[opaque wharf]

That too yeah. But the application rarely ever benefits from http2 anyway

Sans static assets

[rough bloom]

The load balancer spins up instances of the script as workers, to handle the many requests.
Apache and Nginx do BOTH of these things.
this is true for ancient PHP deployments, but practically no modern Node.js deployment works like this
the Node.js app runs its own webserver, the load balancer doesn't control its lifecycle at all, all the load balancer has is a hostname and port to forward the HTTP request to
Unless the application is a long-running process that needs to handle its own memory across interconnected sessions, the only thing it would listen to is whatever the Web server or load-balancer sends it.
the application is always a long-running process
In your example, it sounds like Apache or Nginx is listening to incoming ports (e.g. 80, 8080, 443), AND sending the response generated by the workers.
it forwards the response generated by the application to the client
So Apache/Nginx, if I understood what you described, is the Web server.
it is a webserver on a technicality but in this setup it functions as a load balancer and as such would usually be called a load balancer
Are you just saying that these non-CGI systems use a different communication protocol?
no, they function differently
What is listening to and responding on the WAN ports? That is the Web server
it is not the web server, it is the load balancer

[glass jetty]

when enabled, right?, if ran on several machine it may be better to use http2
surely it not enabled by default :scary:

[warped narwhal]

https://youtu.be/DVR0zvDYJgY

[warped narwhal]

I think http2 is default (I may be wrong) but you'd need to configure TLS manually as you'd need to tell them where the certs are

[opaque wharf]

It is best practice to terminal tls as soon as it enter trusted network actually

[fiery canopy]

some are depends on the software used

[opaque wharf]

Nah, for nginx you need to add http2 to the 'listen' directice

So http, then http2

In short

[warped narwhal]

Yeah, not everything sends SNI headers, so l7 routing can be a pain if you don't terminate TLS early

[opaque wharf]

NodeJS app is indeed its own webserver

You spin up the process and it is long running

It accept http

[fiery canopy]

This is so stupidly simple at its core that im confused how this even turned intto a debate and how many braincells you must lack to not understand the difference between a web server and a load balancer

[opaque wharf]

Nginx and other load balancer just pass the request they received to that long running process

[opaque wharf]

Because it used to be not like this

It used to be CGI

[fiery canopy]

I know that but all it takes is a small amount of reserch

to find out

I think its quite litterally 1 search on yt, google or anything

and u can find out

instead of debating it here

[glass jetty]

ok i guess i just made ill assumption about configurations in nginx

so i can enable both proxy headers and tls?

[warped narwhal]

Just wait till you hear that nginx can serve static webpages

[glass jetty]

since when it not?

[fiery canopy]

oh yea that is a thing nginx can do

[warped narwhal]

Therefore making it both a load balancer, reverse proxy and a web aerver

[fiery canopy]

I forget nginx can do that smtimes

but thats gonna give @dull egret more of a mind fuck atp

[rough bloom]

there are multiple possible configurations?

-# /s

[glass jetty]

i mean even default config of nginx allow you to set web dir and serve static/php https://charaverk.online/web/

[warped narwhal]

"everything tries to be an everything app. But all everything apps only cover 90%"

[fiery canopy]

yep

[rough bloom]

but yeah that makes it extra confusing, since "load balancer" or "reverse proxy" or whatever is really more of a role in your design than it's something inherent to Nginx or whatever

[fiery canopy]

in all reality

[opaque wharf]

Traefik

[fiery canopy]

@dull egret please use basic reserch materials such as google, youtube or many others. And stop debating about this in a discord server where people are tired of u being wrong

:0

I think thats the best solution

[glass jetty]

nah its fine

active

[fiery canopy]

fe

but

still

[glass jetty]

i make no research and debate whatever things in rust are correct or not lol

[fiery canopy]

in all reality if they are actually trying to understand it

[fiery canopy]

thats more acceptable thats rust

this is this

hence

do reserch

for this

also how long does it take this person to type a message

iswtg they've been typing on and off for a solid 10 mins

[glass jetty]

when you thinking actively, and writing it in words

you usually delete 80% of what you've typed

[fiery canopy]

ehh fe

[glass jetty]

what is fe

[fiery canopy]

fair enough

[warped narwhal]

Object oriented programming is how rust is meant to be done. Change my mind

[rough bloom]

mods

[warped narwhal]

Iron

[rough bloom]

kill

[rigid snow]

[glass jetty]

tbf oop in rust is possible and rust inher many good things from oop

but it is not oop language

[warped narwhal]

Not with that attitude

[glass jetty]

you cant have virtual object with data

you can only have methods like geters and seters

when oop done right oop is nice

but usually every one do it wrong

[dull egret]

@opaque wharf @rigid snow @rough bloom

Ok, I think I get what's happening here.

There's a difference in how I learned what these are.

My term, "Web server", means: It listens for and responds to requests. It (may) handle worker instances [in which case it is a load-balancer, as well]. ONLY a "Web server" listens for and responds DIRECTLY to requests. If it doesn't do this, it is NOT a "Web server"

From when I learned this stuff, back around 2014, what you all are calling "Web servers" were on the "Application Layer". They were not considered "servers". They were "scripts"/"applications"/"workers".

"Workers" were not "Web servers", for the express reason that they are not request handlers. They don't listen or reply on ports

An application that was also a Web server was considered inefficient as hell, something like PHP's built-in server, which is run from the command line and uses NO reverse proxy, period. It's a standalone application. You wouldn't do this, unless debugging, for most languages.

[glass jetty]

last oop thing i did is rewriting object in object in object to interface from interface from interface from interface to usage in wrapper object

and practically hide like 70% unneeded exposed code

[glass jetty]

by this definition load balancer is web server, and 'worker' is also web server

[dull egret]

Or... Maybe not...

So, this ADDS a layer? Node DOES run its own server?

How is that LESS steps?

[glass jetty]

and it kinda is

[glass jetty]

yes, node and any other app that handle

it just never expose socket to outer network

request goes through proxy

[opaque wharf]

Ahhh, but you see, that is what the modern practice is doing. Running service

[dull egret]

No, "workers", in this case, only interact with the Web server or load balancer. They do not receive HTTP requests directly over the Internet.

That, or calls to a standalone application, like a database.

They are strictly controlled by the Web server or load balancer, and they operate internally, only.

By this definition, no worker can be a Web server, unless you have a really funky topology.

[opaque wharf]

However, those running service are put behind load balancer

And you don't just run 1 single service

You run 5-15 or even more of them

So your load balancer would load balance between those running service

[glass jetty]

erm anything thet work with in and out is server

thing that use http is web server

language servers use jrpc (on std io)

[dull egret]

Ok, I see...

[glass jetty]

base socket (custom protocol) is just server

when you talk about industrial it is master and slave
master is client and slave is server, so modbus slave is server, but never called server, just modbus or slave

[rigid snow]

[glass jetty]

sql databases, tbf idk what protocol they use

but they are not web servers, they are db servers

ftp servers are ftp servers, and not web servers

so basically it is client -> routing -> server -> server -> server

[opaque wharf]

It is even more confusing in JS with SSR and Vite existing at the same time

[glass jetty]

just this server -> server -> server
is balance/reverse -> nodejs -> database

[glass jetty]

wtf is ssr

[opaque wharf]

Server Side Rendering

[glass jetty]

ah

[opaque wharf]

What PHP used to do with templating in HTML directly

[opaque sigil]

hydration errors

[rigid snow]

csr, ssr, isr, ssg, spa,

[opaque wharf]

However, I am grateful for NodeJS so I don't have to touch the mess that is PHP. Like, wdym most intellisense feature are behind paywall

[rough bloom]

An application that was also a Web server was considered inefficient as hell, something like PHP's built-in server, which is run from the command line and uses NO reverse proxy, period. It's a standalone application. You wouldn't do this, unless debugging, for most languages.
not sure where you heard that it's less efficient, because it's quite the opposite
even something like PHP which traditionally has one process per request uses persistent worker processes now
it just doesn't use HTTP, it uses FastCGI

and ye the terminology changed a bit I think, because PHP is much less relevant than it was back then web apps aren't really called "scripts" anymore, that's mostly a PHP thing

[dull egret]

That's the difference in definition, then.

A Web server, operates as a front-end for the Web. It is the gateway between any internal services and any requests over the WAN.

---

It means something different, now, I suppose.

---

But, if you're using Apache/Nginx/etc. As a back-proxy, anyway, why is something like Node being thrown in front? Node isn't that performant.

Aren't you handling the request twice? Once to parse the request and forward it to the load-balancer, and then the load-balancer has to process the components of the request to determine what services are to manage that request?

Pretty sure that's the reason AIO solutions exist, at all. To avoid separating the load-balancer and Web server from the application[s] and local services.

[opaque sigil]

that's just wrong though

[rigid snow]

php is actually kinda nice nowadays you should try laravel it’s nice

[mighty thorn]

Do not defend the forbidden language

[rigid snow]

though it’s very much a kitchen sink framework like django but django is ew

[rough bloom]

runs its own webserver
it's simpler because you don't have to set up a webserver and then your application within that webserver
you just run your application and point the load balancer to it and it works

[glass jetty]

load balancer and reverse perform no work

[opaque wharf]

Last time I checked to jump to definition and refactor using intelliphanse (the one with the elephant logo), it is still behind paywall

[opaque sigil]

there's another lsp

[glass jetty]

purpose of them is that they make almost no work to accept request

they redirect it
and they can receive more request than web server
(node) 8 web servers -> 100000 requests per second <- doing work
(nginx) 1 balancer -> 10000000 requests per second <- just send to workers

[opaque sigil]

forgot the name though

[warped narwhal]

Just use phpstorm

Sacrifice all mortal possessions to jetbrains

[rigid snow]

true actually it’s free now

or is it

[warped narwhal]

Free for non commercial I think

Idk I just have the all access pass

[broken cipher]

isn't php like an esoteric programming language that is still exists just to be garbage now

lmao

[rigid snow]

oh is not part of the ce thing it’s not free

[rigid snow]

what

[opaque sigil]

nginx: takes in request from outside world and decides which node process to send it to
node: runs the actual server that listens to http requests and returns the content to nginx to then return to the user

it ain't that deep bro

[warped narwhal]

[broken cipher]

i'm just kidding man sorry

[warped narwhal]

Make a web server in malbolge as an apology

[broken cipher]

nah i'm good

[warped narwhal]

I think you should reconsider

[glass jetty]

make web server in assembly
-# (would be faster to write custom compilator and then web server)

[rigid snow]

500 syscalls

[opaque wharf]

https://tenor.com/view/venom-gif-27487650

[opaque sigil]

you can write a web server in assembly in like 100 lines

[glass jetty]

omg i just listening to lecture about writing OS and 100% sure i will never use this info

soo nice

[glass jetty]

i mean not echo one

[warped narwhal]

https://wyoos.org

Soothing German voice talking about OS design

[broken cipher]

does it count if i'd just compile cpp web serv?

[glass jetty]

no

it can be decoded

write own compilator, that not just clone c, and use different call convention

[dull egret]

Ok, yup, different definition. 100%.

Like I said, in this case, from when I did Web, Nginx, in your example, is the "Web server" AND "load-balancer".

In your example, Node would NOT be a "Web server". It's just an application layer worker. Whether script or secondary service, etc. it's local-only, so server or not, it would not have been a Web server.

But the way I learned it, what you described, the only thing in there that qualifies as a "Web server" is Nginx.

It means something different, now.

[glass jetty]

and insert random nop operations

[glass jetty]

node is web server by definition

[rigid snow]

you can expose the node “worker” to the internet and it would serve web requests without nginx or anything. how the fuck is that not a web server

[opaque sigil]

the node app can function as a web server in your definition too, it just happens to only get requests from nginx in this case

[glass jetty]

or you can make two nginx

[warped narwhal]

For alignment of course

[glass jetty]

tho practically i doubt that make sense, since even nginx support multiple domain at same instance

[stark needle]

hi kaine corneko (also known as kaine corneko)

[opaque sigil]

it's important to note that nginx is not in any way necessary here

it just does the load balancing

[glass jetty]

-# omg why i misspell so much

[mighty thorn]

Hello

My conditional depth shit has continued to succeed every test I throw at it

I’m only a few tests away from a prototype for my actual project

[broken cipher]

crazy style

[glass jetty]

run cognitive complexity on it

[stark needle]

cool the one with the prediction on multi users or something?

[fast pagoda]

:omemga

[rough bloom]

ye, and a separate load balancer is still useful when running a webserver with CGI
only thing that really changed is that the webserver and the application are now combined

[rigid snow]

also it being local/not serving requests from the internet/not being the one in front is not in the definition of “web server”, just completely made up

[glass jetty]

omegckha

[mighty thorn]

Idk what that is

[mighty thorn]

[opaque sigil]

lambda

[dull egret]

The way it was described, it is not being used as a Web server.

The way Shuni described, it was.

If Node listens to the OUTSIDE, it is "Web".

Shuni described a use where there was A Node server, that was also a "Web server", as well as separate Node application servers, acting as workers.

Toast described a situation where Nginx was the "Web server", and performed load-balancing to distribute processing to several non-Web services using Node.

I literally just explained where the difference was, and now you say there is no difference.

[glass jetty]

thing like this, found in rust, and it sometime say me that i doing shit in cpp (when i try to make minimal copy logical solutions)
https://rust-lang.github.io/rust-clippy/master/index.html?groups=restriction#cognitive_complexity
i configured it to 12 in rust;
In clangd-tidy, i guess i can also find config, but default is 25, and it is quite high default

[rigid snow]

this is just bs i’m sorry but you’re arguing about a topic you don’t know much about

[fiery canopy]

this is what I said earlier

hence me saying just google it

prior

[rigid snow]

^

a web server is something that serves web requests, usually meaning http but more broadly any web protocol

[glass jetty]

several ppl typing in #programming
on neuro sama discord server

[fiery canopy]

I know that ever hapepning is insane

[broken cipher]

if you don't use the functionality of something that you could use, it won't change the characteristics of the object

like if a web server will not listen any ports on the outside it will not stop being a web server

[glass jetty]

yeah
cc being segfault generator, but used as compiler, not make it not segfault generator

[broken cipher]

true

[rigid snow]

nginx can but doesn’t in this config; the actual thing serving the requests are the node instances. therefore here nginx is both the reverse proxy and the load balancer, the node instance is the web server

[glass jetty]

but for client (user), nginx serve as web server

cuz client not see implementation details

[rigid snow]

no, it just forwards the request onto the node instance, it’s a proxy

[mighty thorn]

The Digital Millennium Copyright Act and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.

[glass jetty]

there no difference between https://hotgirls.net being routed to nginx or node for user

[broken cipher]

it doesn't mean anything if someone can't see shit

if you will see a piece of bread made of plastic but think that it is real it will not become real bread

you see what i mean?

[glass jetty]

sausage from soya or from meat make no difference for tasteless consumer

[broken cipher]

yes but it is not changing the reality

[rough bloom]

Shuni described a use where there was A Node server, that was also a "Web server", as well as separate Node application servers, acting as workers.
when did I ever say any of that
I didn't mention Node.js that often I think, it makes no difference whether the application is written in JS or Rust or C or whatever
I don't like the "worker" terminology, but it's what you used to describe the CGI processes, so I called it that too

[glass jetty]

yes it not change reality

but user does not have to observe reality

omg why me misspelling so frequently lately

user does not verb <expr> .. is even valid english?

[tropic spindle]

evilLookUp

[glass jetty]

[frozen igloo]

[glass jetty]

waaaait

at cpu lvl

atomic ops for locking is just locking cache line?

cpu can even never write but just lock cache

[hard delta]

oo ee oo

[tropic spindle]

My gif got unstarred you Discord

[dull egret]

A server: Any application that performs a continuous process, listening to input and generating output

A Web server: A server that directly handles inbound and outbound HTTP requests, performing routing to scripts, applications, and static assets.

A Web server is capable of returning an asset, such as favicon.ico. Without THIS running, favicon.ico cannot be retrieved, and your website has no icon in the tab.

A Web server reads a URI/URL, and it determines the processes to send the request to for further processing.

A Web server returns the HTTP response object, including all dynamic content generated by scripts or other processes, and URI references to media assets, etc. to the over-the-Internet client. The client receives no request, no error, nothing except a browser timeout, without this service running.

In the case described, if Nginx is not operating, the website will return a network error or timeout. The remote host does NOT respond, period. Not a service ON the host, which doesn't perform the correct processing or times out, but the entire remote host will not reply. Nothing is listening to that request.

If the "Web server" IS running, but you requested bullshit, it will return a PAGE NOT FOUND error, or maybe a BAD GATEWAY or a PAGE MOVED.

If the Web server is not running, you cannot even get a server-generated error message, because you cannot connect to the host, at all.

If you can connect to the host and initiate HTTP processing, THAT is the "Web server", whatever that server may be.
(Based on the way I learned the meaning of that term)

There is apparently a NEW definition for THAT term, or different architectural changes for how Web is handled, than what I worked with.

But if the physical network device is replying, only the thing that sends YOU a response is the "Web server".

[glass jetty]

screamer

[tropic spindle]

evilLookUp

[amber fractal]

[rigid snow]

all of what you described applies to the node instance in this config, except for the directly part, which yeah not much nowadays does. doesn’t make all reverse proxies web servers suddenly. if you have the orange cloud in your cloudflare dns settings does that somehow mean that cloudflare is now the server ? apparently it does now 🫩

like you almost got it but your stubbornness keeps you like an inch away from understanding it

yes the reverse proxy is technically the thing that you send requests to and receive responses from. yes. doesn’t change the terminology. we don’t call it a web server in this scenario

only when that nginx instance starts serving static files it becomes a web server, like favicon.ico you mentioned. but it rarely does nowadays - it’s either a separate server or a part of the app (which is the server)

[rough bloom]

if you have the orange cloud in your cloudflare dns settings does that somehow mean that cloudflare is now the server
it is a server on a technicality, but yeah, you usually don't call it that in this setup
it's a reverse proxy and sometimes also a load balancer, calling it a web server is confusing so nobody does that, the other terms are more accurate

[glass jetty]

a server: any application that perform io, when user of this io is another application or server
web server: server that handle web protocols, usually http cuz it is most popular one

static information like icon.ico is just data that any server answer on request; if it was web request, it will be returned in web format; if it was some custom request, will be returned in format request (protocol) specify; to return some data like this server should be aware of protocol, http protocol is literally protocol for transferring files

web server almost never read uri, it is always url, uri is something something LSP
on requested url, following configuration of web server, it can either just return result or proxy it to another server

omg where you got uri:

1. client request index.html
2. server send index.html
3. client see that index.html also request ico.png
4. client request ico.png
5. server send ico.png

The client receives no request, no error,...
client can and will receive error; what request means here?

it will return error indicating that this port cant be accessed, it is linux tcp stack task to reply with error
if there no 'workers' under nginx, it will return nginx error, or maybe timeout

bad gateway is proxy error, 404 (not found) is web server error, yes it will return error if request is bullshit
gateway error (no api running): https://charaverk.online/api/
web server error (no file found): https://charaverk.online/web/boobs.pnh

web server is thing that answer your web request
wtf is initiate http processing? http is request-answer, it have no process
dont confuse with web socket

definition of web server.. pretty sure it never changed
reinterpretation maybe, idk is there even official definition

only the thing that sends YOU a response is the "Web server".
practically yes; you send request to proxy, server handle, proxy send back to you
for you it looks like you requested to web server directly #programming message

[amber fractal]

What are these link choices

[glass jetty]

wdym?

[sage crag]

pluu

[glass jetty]

something wrong with boobs being not found?

[sage crag]

something

eyes

[leaden crest]

konii is that you

undercover again I see

[sage crag]

nrr

[opaque wharf]

Are we still discussing server?

[sage crag]

me fox🦊ying

[glass jetty]

idk, maybe

[glass jetty]

what do you guys think?

[sage crag]

bzzzz

[hard delta]

a server is a person who brings you drinks

[rigid snow]

HELLO

[sage crag]

ghost enub

[stark needle]

bbbbbbb

[rigid snow]

how did you recognize in there

[sage crag]

it also

[rigid snow]

[sage crag]

MitoOhISee

[glass jetty]

[sage crag]

and

[glass jetty]

meow

[sage crag]

Ert

[sage crag]

OhISeeto**

nam

[rigid snow]

[sage crag]

ye

why

[rigid snow]

🗜️

[opaque wharf]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-animals-gif-17974584

[glass jetty]

meeeeew

i hear this meeew

[sage crag]

fly

edelposter

[stark needle]

yrui

[rigid snow]

want a break from reading yuri? we got plenty of essays above for you to read

[stark needle]

wtf yuri convention exists

[sage crag]

nrr no read edelpost

brain dmaga

[sage crag]

duh

[woven coral]

im\_shadowo

Server Avatar

[fast pagoda]

[sage crag]

konyin

[glass jetty]

[fast pagoda]

i am sorry mother but i had to follow my heart

:omemga

[sage crag]

unfilial

[fast pagoda]

banger

[fast pagoda]

i will still send money home

[rigid snow]

[sage crag]

i want a million dolar

[fast pagoda]

damn old witch

demanding my millions

[sage crag]

witch young

NOT hag

[stark needle]

[fast pagoda]

https://tenor.com/view/spirited-away-gif-9434399

[stark needle]

symbxl my beloved

[glass jetty]

true

[stark needle]

best oshi

[fast pagoda]

if u want higher bitrate

[glass jetty]

i degraded it to save space
also evilkaraoke webside provide 320, or 256

[fast pagoda]

yeah this is ripped off the site

i use the site as a speedtest

lol

[glass jetty]

i just download new music and save it locally

cuz one day i will be cut out from internet

and i will at least have music

until ill leave

[fast pagoda]

me too

it just happens that it's all on r2 so it's a really good test for downloading a lot of files

[fast pagoda]

ive cost cloudflare billions

[glass jetty]

@lavish nest ban this guy

🐀

[fast pagoda]

it's free egress

have mercy

[glass jetty]

also plz

remove

notify about lvl

[dull egret]

But a generic server that does not listen to inbound/outbound ports, specifically for HTTP requests, is NOT a "Web server".

If it DOES listen for those things, it's a "Web server".

Not using the functionality does change what [that instance] is.

For instance, a "load-balancer" may or may not handle Web requests. If you are not using it to route traffic, it's NOT a "Web server". It's only a "load-balancer". If it ALSO routes inbound/outbound requests, it is ALSO a "Web server"

If you run an AI on Node.js (which I've seen somewhere, at least once), that instance of Node is NOT a "Web server". It is an AI application server.

---

By YOUR definition, MANY ENTIRE LANGUAGES are """Web servers""", because they have "Web server" functionality built in, such as for debugging network applications.

Does everything with an HTTP implementation in their standard library qualify as a "Web server"?

A """"Web server""" ha[s|d] a VERY SPECIFIC definition.

I'm leaning more towards, Devs don't know what they're doing, now, with how dead certain you are about what you just said.

If the meaning changed, because the architecture changed, that's one thing. I may be wrong, then.

If the meaning changed, because people stopped knowing how Web Dev works, then they're wrong.

And it's certainly not for nothing, because Web Dev is TRASH, these days. So it's clear most Web devs don't know anything about their field.

---

A car can have the tires removed and put on tracks. Does that make it a train? No, it's not a train, unless you DO that. (Whether or not that's a good idea)

Node.js is NOT a "Web server", but can be used to make one.

Literally how it's described.

[fast pagoda]

[kind nimbus]

I still really like this unofficial duet

https://youtube.com/watch?v=tvmb1eeb5GQ

[stark needle]

holy walls of text

[glass jetty]

@analog junco

why two accounts?

[glass jetty]

omg no, i will not gonna read this again

.
there so many bangers
evil voice is better tho

[fast pagoda]

unofficial as in it's a mashup

usually weirdly good

[glass jetty]

time to ytdlp

[kind nimbus]

Yeah unfortunately that duet never really happened

Still hoping for it tho

[glass jetty]

how many songs i still missing

i never heard https://evilkaraoke.com/song/78bb13ba-3ccb-475b-931e-89bd537f8d2b

[fast pagoda]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkzno_1zn7Q remake version of one of my favourites of this type and it got performed live

[fast pagoda]

there are 1395 currently

[glass jetty]

and i filtred to 480

[fast pagoda]

lol this guy fucked up the glass shattering

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8h_iAwg-vc

my beloved

[sage crag]

wrr

[midnight sigil]

https://x.com/trq212/status/2052811606032269638

these mf said Markdown is the next only "programming" language you need to know(because of AI skills ig), and now they say Markdown is going to be eliminated. They want to do everything to keep to bubble going huh

Thariq (@trq212)

HTML is the new markdown.

I've stopped writing markdown files for almost everything and switched to using Claude Code to generate HTML for me. This is why.

X · May 8, 2026, 6:03 PM

[stark needle]

awa

[wispy pike]

ay, I love hibikase

[sage crag]

pluu

[glass jetty]

also this one is banger for me
idk why but i can set it on repeat for days

[fast pagoda]

Based

[glass jetty]

symbiaaaosis, the synergy of conflict in theee brain

reverse the loop of swallowing

[fast pagoda]

I got some of those just now

[fast pagoda]

Clueless people being clueless

[glass jetty]

why you even read twitter

is discord not enough for you?

[sage crag]

WRRRRR

[fast pagoda]

im boutta click this

[kind nimbus]

That's a moneyshot worth posting on r/OnlyFans

[fast pagoda]

once theyre booster strapped onto the cards it'll be comical

[midnight sigil]

on Android Chrome, the main page has those news topics thingy, and I just got randomly recommended a new title on this X/Twitter post

[glass jetty]

use firefox :nooo:

[warped narwhal]

We went from markdown to markup

[midnight sigil]

me is Chromium supporter

[glass jetty]

some one actually maintain nixos

so its fine

[midnight sigil]

big boss Google rules the internet, their engine should comply the specs better

[analog junco]

[leaden crest]

[sick owl]

omemga

[glass jetty]

also, quiz - make skip button

i not listen japanise and i always want to skip it, but only way is failing it

[analog junco]

the bandle challenge or the multiplayer quiz one?

[glass jetty]

also banger btw

[glass jetty]

oh there solo mod, why not save leaderboard record button exist then?

[fast pagoda]

:omemga

[analog junco]

i have no clue what you mean The bandle challenge is the same for everyone, everyone gets the same song regardless if you want to be on the leaderboard or not. If you mean the practice bandlemode, then just refresh the page when you hear Japanese

[dull egret]

HTTP is the protocol for transferring Hypertext. Hypertext Transfer Protocol.

Multiple protocols handles "files". One of the other ones I'm sure you've heard of is FTP.

---

Not every server can handle static assets. And without the "Web server", you will NOT get that file.

You DO know that you can ALSO have MULTIPLE of the thing I call "Web servers" on the same physical hardware, right?

And that, likewise, disparate hardware in disparate locations can all handle different components of a request, right?

When you get a remote CDN link to static assets, BOTH the application server AND the CDN host have separate "Web servers".

And a NEW request is made to access the static content on the CDN.

So that is sent like this:
[Client] Gimme page

[Address 1 Web Server] Here's where these request parts go

[Various Services] Here are the resources, formatted as HTTP/S
~~~
[Address 1 Web Server] I need some ceap from the CDN... <Generates NEW request>

[Address 2 Web Server] Here is a list of those uploads!

[Address 1 Web Server] Here's your page, Client!
~~~

{Alternatively}
~~~
[Address 1 Web Server] Here's you page, Client!

[Client] Hmmm... I don't have these assets, but there's a link... <Requests the static files in NEW request to CDN>

[Address 2 Web Server] Yeah, I got those... Here is a list of those uploads!
~~~

Whether the separate Web servers are on one or multiple machines and in one or multiple locations, they each take inbound requests over a port

You can even have a single physical server do NOTHING but handle Web requests, and routes those requests to NUMEROUS other computers on or off the network.

You could have Nginx routing all relevant requests to services that handle a cluster of databases, Apache routing all relevant requests to services handling static assets in a whole other campus, and Actix generating real-time session stuff and handing off stuff to Redis for caching. It may also be doing server protection, by reading in something from Cloudflare or CAPTCHA, services not native to the local provider.

What is "initiate HTTP processing?"
You send HTTP request. The Web server then either processes it directly or hands it off to a service that does.

HTTP is request-answer. It has no process. Don't confuse with WebSocket
WebSocket is a continuous streaming connection to a remote host. It is not a request. But it will be opened BY a response providing credentials to open a streaming socket.

HTTP is a stateless protocol that requires state to be handled on the endpoints. The Web server launches a process (thread, script, whatever handler is configured and that it's designed for), in response to an HTTP request. That process handles the request HEADERS

And the REQUEST ITSELF is handled by the "Web server" (does the routing for that request)

[fast pagoda]

[sage crag]

[fast pagoda]

lutel

the first approval ive ever receive

[sage crag]

im running low on cash

[fast pagoda]

but i just sent you a million

[glass jetty]

do you know how cdn work?

[sage crag]

i spent it

[fast pagoda]

on what D:

[sage crag]

financial investment

in vegas

[fast pagoda]

how're the tickers looking

im sure you're up big

in your portfolio

[rigid snow]

33 chips

chip mentioned omg

[sage crag]

its up

the red number

[dull egret]

Yes, the CDN stores the data, and it is retrieved via some sort of request. In this case, it would use HTTP

[warped narwhal]

Wrong

[olive sable]

goodmorning

[rigid snow]

bro i can’t, literally no one agrees

[sage crag]

catpcha

meow

[fast pagoda]

it's opposite day

[sage crag]

its down

[fast pagoda]

no i do not see

[dull egret]

Wrong? What part?

[sage crag]

the part where essaying

[warped narwhal]

All of it

[fast pagoda]

i found a pic of you earlier

[sage crag]

even if the contents is correct its emotionally wrong

doxx

[fast pagoda]

when you were younger

[sage crag]

child idiot

[glass jetty]

i dont understand you trying to say what you are understanding, or trying to correct me

2 things: any server that allow you to access resource by name on server file system return to you static asset, and there still no such thing as http processing in term of session, http is per file request-answer, no session, this is why REST also stateless

web server not launch process thread or script, it launch coroutine, subroutine if it is correct term

[sage crag]

how to recycle

[fast pagoda]

that your fault

[sage crag]

[warped narwhal]

In washing machine

[fast pagoda]

NO

[sage crag]

again

[rigid snow]

the last one can be true if cgi but only if cgi

[warped narwhal]

We using blender for web servers now?

[sage crag]

i thought thats how you wash child

no wonder this one is stupid

[rigid snow]

we using mixer

did you hear they signed ninja

[maiden geyser]

i 🫀 words words words

[analog junco]

[glass jetty]

btw cdn is something that client access to, servers usually not handle cdn, you understand it?
from [i need some from CDN], seems like not

it should be really unusual when server side want to request something from cdn

tho im not web dev and not entirely sure
that just common sense for me

[dull egret]

Well, I've hosted Websites, configured them to operate through Apache and Nginx, and handled the "worker" scripts on the backend; including the entire separation of routing, static files, and dynamically -generated content; and the whole database architecture, as well as POST handlers, and, in a few instances, HTTP Authentication over the browser.

And manual XMLHTTPRequest handling for AJAX.

So, very interesting you say that.

[sage crag]

cdn stands for clinician denial note

[rigid snow]

just actual babble

[sage crag]

[fast pagoda]

you think i cant find the embarassing pic of you at the christmas party

think again

[rigid snow]

yes i’ve done ftp sftp through udp smtp file type ppt

[rough bloom]

[sage crag]

file transfer protocol

@sage crag

[bitter phoenix]

Hey @fast pagoda random question, do you have any decent ideas for procurement/creation of SFT datasets for casual conversation. Currently I’m leaning into rlhf progres patching up my pipeline insufficiencies

[sage crag]

whopingedme

[rigid snow]

me

[sage crag]

o

why

[rigid snow]

idk

[kind fable]

i'm sorry to inflict you guys this pain

[sage crag]

figure it out

[rigid snow]

because you’re cool

[sage crag]

thanks

[rigid snow]

⭐

[glass jetty]

what is ppt

and why

[sage crag]

i am idol

✅

[olive sable]

[sage crag]

powerpoint tenshi

[glass jetty]

it make no sense for it to be powerpoint

[rigid snow]

it makes no sense to begin with because it is intended to not make sense

it just acronym soup

[glass jetty]

plz use functions
if it is config file, oh......

[sage crag]

coke is so sour

[nocturne olive]

Maybe put some of that stuff in a function

[sage crag]

just lik my heart

[kind fable]

not my stuff

[rigid snow]

try taking it nasally instead

[kind fable]

i just forward

[sage crag]

nro

[kind fable]

cause i'm myself in physical pain

so much nesting

[glass jetty]

@molten island your work?

[sage crag]

mku mku oo ee oo

[rough bloom]

🎤 🎶

[kind fable]

not mine

someone i know

but that's it

[sage crag]

agem

[rough bloom]

bun

[sage crag]

[rigid snow]

bun

[sage crag]

[kind fable]

deno

[sage crag]

no

your career is over

[kind fable]

wrong

[sage crag]

you will be blocklisted across all entertainment platforms

[kind fable]

wrong

[sage crag]

i'll make sure you never ger another acting job ever again

[kind fable]

kek

[sage crag]

all of your promotions? cancelled

[olive sable]

i woke up with dementia, i dont remember what iw as doing besides clone hero

[dull egret]

Actual babble

He probably never wrote up routing rules in the service config file, not created separate domains and public/private content hosting paths

I bet you don't even know what AJAX is. Or how to hot load new content and inject it into the DOM on timers or events?

Do you know what asynchronous form submissions are and how to manipulate and update cookies and sessions?

Can you generate an SQL query without some ORM engines?

Temporary page files that initiate an entire sequence of SQL actions to orderly generate a database?

[kind fable]

i alr have no job

[sage crag]

all of your drama romcom series? cancelled

[kind fable]

if you prevent me from getting a job it cancel

[kind fable]

good thing i'm not a fan of those

[sage crag]

the currently airing 12 episode series about the fall of rome? cancelled

you'll never survive

[olive sable]

why do you use so many blank space lines?

[molten island]

cloes enough

[sage crag]

edelpost™ edelformat™

[rough bloom]

this is edelposting

tradtional format

[dull egret]

Different thoughts, so separators. I'm on a phone.

[olive sable]

i see

[dull egret]

Ok, I wasted 3 hours. I have to go

[sage crag]

by

[rough bloom]

bye Edel

[glass jetty]

omg i knew!

[molten island]

sadly no ; :emug:

[sage crag]

emug

[olive sable]

i dont get what was wrong about the http thing. but i have no clue how that shit works so

[sage crag]

ttast emug lt officer

[molten island]

no nitro

[sage crag]

[rough bloom]

[sage crag]

mug fan

[glass jetty]

who need nitro

[sage crag]

how mug become more popular every day

[glass jetty]

just use images

[sage crag]

[molten island]

too lazy

[molten island]

mug is cool

[glass jetty]

big bwaa

[amber fractal]

Emotes convient

Easily accessible

[opaque wharf]

Got some nice ice cold water in 00.00

[fast pagoda]

that is random
best advise i can give (dont listen to me) is that quality > quantity mostly as tends to be the case in all but if trying to go for a specific persona without steering it live it will be extremely random what you get unless you're very picky about what you include. but being too specific with it will kinda still steer it, just into a really cringy version of what you're going for. too unspecific and you get a regular model out the back but i find that the noise does help because it removes predictability. especially if you are using like, your data, because you're REALLY good at next token predicting yourself and it wont work for you. dont fine tune instruct tuned most for conversation as that's pretty contrary to the indifferent persona a regular person typically portrays, i like to make synthetic slightly instruct flavoured subsets to sample from when starting the training but only enough to help it hold a thread of intent and that's it. rlhf dont use regular sets like ultrafeedback or w/e cuz they are not helpful for sovl. they will give you a lotta slop tho

[glass jetty]

llms again....

[fast pagoda]

i am instruct tuned so i cant not respond to a query

better than http

maybe

[olive sable]

[kind nimbus]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1061113840852533339/1486790421785874513/a40j8XQscC68DA6z.gif

[olive sable]

my new phone

has decided

no more audio via bluetooth

[bitter phoenix]

Tyvm

[olive sable]

and videos wont play for more than 5 seconds

[kind nimbus]

Dafuq

[fast pagoda]

https://tenor.com/view/reboot-ballmer-microsoft-windows-gif-4835208164575469627

[olive sable]

i already did

[kind nimbus]

Is it running windows

[olive sable]

[fast pagoda]

more

[kind nimbus]

Reboot harder

[fast pagoda]

i rebooted my stupid magic sand shelf probably 20 times while trying to fix it not realizing it had 4 nics but didnt initialize any of them

[bitter phoenix]

Spook it and make it panic reboot

[olive sable]

your what?

magic sand?

[bitter phoenix]

Magic sand shelf

[fast pagoda]

yeah the occult shrine in my closet

[kind nimbus]

Boo!

[fast pagoda]

this thing

[olive sable]

[kind nimbus]

Only fans

[fast pagoda]

i still have extra laying around

when i replaced my cpu cooler

i suddenly had 8 excess fans

[kind nimbus]

https://tenor.com/view/kittyspin-ks-kitty-spin-meme-gif-15005882125990334534

[fast pagoda]

and already had ordered more

so

i be moving air

[kind nimbus]

I have 10 fans in my computer

Why? Because the case gave me the opportunity to put that many fans in there

[sick owl]

Wrong vid lmao

Same channel though

https://youtu.be/lA8WuXDXfcI

Turns out that Unitree backdoor is way worse than I thought

[kind nimbus]

I had that in my feed earlier lol

[maiden geyser]

we're getting on the watchlists with this one

[glad path]

i keep getting this on my feed too

[bitter phoenix]

Is there any chance you have a research journal you could send me @fast pagoda? I could provide you mine as well, not to be too imposing

I really think you’re super smart

Through obvious experience

[sick owl]

Great vid though lowkey, he has makes some really cool gadgets

[kind nimbus]

https://tenor.com/view/hang-first-time-smiles-gif-14991372

[sage crag]

before you do that though

i need another million dolar

[bitter phoenix]

I can give you a high five

[sage crag]

not you

[olive sable]

[sage crag]

the unfilial child

@fast pagoda

did you know youre adopted

[tiny edge]

nixos sucks holy

[bitter phoenix]

You’ll learn to like it, probably

[tiny edge]

im 3 days trying to put cachyos kernel without building the kernel

[bitter phoenix]

My best advice is to forget what you know about generic Linux systems, there’s no knowledge crossover

[amber fractal]

insert the nixos defender response here

[kind nimbus]

???

[sage crag]

it so easy

[tiny edge]

there's no tutorial

[sage crag]

i did it myself

[tiny edge]

everyone just expects you to know

[bitter phoenix]

Have you heard about uh, let me grab the name one sec

[kind nimbus]

I am using CachyOS kernel on my host

Maybe check my flake src code if that helps idk

[sage crag]

https://github.com/xddxdd/nix-cachyos-kernel
follow instruction

if it confusing, say how, i help

[tiny edge]

im doing that dumbass

[rough bloom]

rude

[shrewd cloak]

how

[sage crag]

it take 10 minute

[fast pagoda]

[sage crag]

just add substituter before rebuilding

[tiny edge]

its like the second result in google search idk

[shrewd cloak]

[bitter phoenix]

https://www.nyx.chaotic.cx
unfortunately this channel was archived like a month ago, but they provide cachey kernel binaries

[sage crag]

if never done before

[opaque wharf]

Some is being rude to your adoptive mother

[kind nimbus]

I created a whole entire nix module for the CachyOS kernel because why not lmao

[olive sable]

[sage crag]

adoptive

[opaque wharf]

Ye

[tiny edge]

deprecated

[opaque wharf]

Fixed

[kind nimbus]

Just use this one

It's good and updated regularly

[bitter phoenix]

Only source I can think of for a binary, the other option is disabling as many kernel modules as you can so that the build is fast

[tropic spindle]

cachey

[sage crag]

updated too regularly

[rough bloom]

ye this seems fine

has GitHub CI apparently

[sage crag]

it literally as easy as adding the substituter, rebuilding, and then changing the kernel

[kind nimbus]

Yeah I'm always waiting for OpenZFS to catch up fml

[rough bloom]

so should all be cached

[sage crag]

wrrr

[kind nimbus]

Also Nvidia

[tiny edge]

https://github.com/xddxdd/nix-cachyos-kernel is binaries i think

[rough bloom]

even has separate branch for only cached versions

never need to rebuild

[sage crag]

lutel

[kind nimbus]

It has a binary cache you can use

[sage crag]

child banned

[bitter phoenix]

Wherever you can find the most up to date source

[amber fractal]

I'll never get NixOS defenders, it's a hard OS in general. Has some helpers but it is just challenging to use.

[sage crag]

[fast pagoda]

[rough bloom]

[opaque wharf]

You have startled the witch

[fast pagoda]

but u

u

you

[sage crag]

why cant you be more like shuni

[fast pagoda]

u

make

use

nik

[olive sable]

[olive sable]

😭

[opaque wharf]

We got family drama in #programming before GTA VI

[kind nimbus]

Nah it's not that hard once you understand how it works

[fast pagoda]

[sage crag]

i need to find a stepmother

[fast pagoda]

@tender river

[sage crag]

no

[olive sable]

https://tenor.com/view/anakin-obi-wan-kenobi-you-were-my-brother-i-loved-you-star-wars-gif-16635149

[fast pagoda]

@true hemlock ?

[tiny edge]

i think i see what i did wrong

[sage crag]

stop trying to sell me off child

[rough bloom]

I knew it the moment they didn't join the banana campaign

[sage crag]

[fast pagoda]

no i want them to be my 2nd mother

[sage crag]

vetoed

[fast pagoda]

[kind nimbus]

Join amethyst campaign

[rough bloom]

no

mabe in 2027

2026 is banana campaign year

[amber fractal]

I beg to differ, I don't need to spend all of my time in the Nix mines. I really just need stuff to work and Nix happens to be a good way to make sure I only have to write things once.

[sage crag]

ur definitely sleeping on the balcony for a week

[bitter phoenix]

I don’t think so, it is learning the language. Okay take this example from a few days ago, there’s this new TTY replacement with color and GPU rendering super, just a directly better TTY. On a generic Linux system that would be a difficult process where if you do any step out of order or incorrectly then you won’t be able to boot. On NixOS it’s one line to do it and you keep everything instead of overwriting your kernel for the modified one. And it’s like that for any process, changing GPU driver version etc. and you’re never “stuck in a hole” you have to climb out of like you could be in other systems

[opaque wharf]

This channel in a nixshell

[fast pagoda]

actualy me holy

[rough bloom]

so Nix good but NixOS bad?

[bitter phoenix]

Only have to write things once
I’ve used nix for over 2 years exclusively, it makes you feel cooler, and you can copy paste configurations between profiles for your server WSL workstation or virtual machine with ease

[kind nimbus]

Jokes on you ADHD and NixOS is the best combo since i can no longer forget what i have installed or ever changed on my system

I just look into my repo code

[opaque wharf]

Honestly, I can get behind those statement

[sage crag]

nix mediocre, nixos better

[kind nimbus]

No NixOS good

[bitter phoenix]

NixOS never breaks, I like it a lot

I was gonna make a blog about it

Did you know there’s tons of blogs about nixos

[sage crag]

im not taking you to the doctor

you can go yourself

you have a phone

[kind nimbus]

I'm sure there are several already

NixOS is a system you install once and rebuild whenever you want

Flakes make the whole thing even better and i just love nix and full reproducibility

[amber fractal]

I like the concept of being able to do something once and have it mostly work. I appreciate all of the effort that NixOS goes through to make it as easy as it does. I'm not saying I dislike it, I just say it is hard.

[sage crag]

make an appointment

[kind nimbus]

I did

[sage crag]

your grades are dropping

[rough bloom]

I could see that being the case if containers and other escape hatches didn't exist
like, I run some services in Docker containers because porting them to a proper NixOS module is too annoying
but I prefer the stuff that has good NixOS modules running natively

[sage crag]

get a C in your next exam and you can forget about me paying for your tuition

im not joking

[fast pagoda]

:(

[tiny edge]

nixos is good as most distros, the problem is tweaking it for your liking

[bitter phoenix]

It’s even useful for managing package dependencies of dev projects, instead of making changes to your OS. You could use docker for the same purpose, docker is actually powered by nix too

[kind nimbus]

You just need to get used to it

It's not hard it's just a very different concept compared to imperative distros

[fast pagoda]

that ok i got bored and took apart the tv and lawn mower tho

[sage crag]

my

my stuff

[rough bloom]

[opaque wharf]

The TV?!

TV?!

[sage crag]

[opaque wharf]

konii?!

[sage crag]

[amber fractal]

Good to know every counteraegument is Skill issue
Great look

[fast pagoda]

that's right

[kind nimbus]

Yeah i usually drop a flake.nix into my projects and then people can directly build and run the shit off GitHub with a single command

I love it

[sage crag]

patricide

[fast pagoda]

it's weird that you keep grandpa in the den liek that

[rough bloom]

it's definitely not hard as long as you stay within the stuff that is well supported I think

there's a difficulty spike as soon as you have to modify derivations or make your own modules or something

[sage crag]

the inheritence

[rough bloom]

or understand how linking works

[opaque wharf]

Man, I am too tired for this. Good night everyone

[sage crag]

whyyy

[fast pagoda]

i inheretid

[olive sable]

i dont find it hard, but your millage may vary i guess

[fast pagoda]

his fans

[sage crag]

we needed his money

not his organs

[rough bloom]

good night Justin

[kind nimbus]

There were times where i had like 30 overlays in my flake

Now i moved stuff to another repo and use NUR mostly

[olive sable]

what the fuck were you doing to make that a need?

[kind nimbus]

Uh Well i need tons of different tools for pentesting

I ported some tools to nix, fixed upstream issues, etc

[glass jetty]

[stark needle]

use llm to create more data

[glass jetty]

someone got 39bit mmu

[sage crag]

i hav

11 core processor

[maiden geyser]

canibalism bros rise up

[glass jetty]

do it do it do it do it

[maiden geyser]

polzet

[stark needle]

intel i8 14230x3D 13 core 21 thread

[bitter phoenix]

Ahh, if there’s anything outside of nix I need I just use distrobox.

Also I think it’s generally useful to have this, basically if there’s something you’re trying to run like cowsay but you don’t have it but it is a nix package then it will automatically be imported and ran as if you prefixed it with nix shell:
environment.sessionVariables.NIX_AUTO_RUN = "1";

[glass jetty]

47bit and 40+60kib cache

[bitter phoenix]

It’s like having a super terminal when you can just run anything

[kind nimbus]

Sure i think i have distrobox enabled as well in my flake lol

[fast pagoda]

Arch Linux

[glass jetty]

use ArchLinux

[bitter phoenix]

I used it for about a month

[kind nimbus]

Wait i did not know that auto run env trick that's cool

[bitter phoenix]

Breaks easily

[glass jetty]

skill issue

use arch for desktop and server

[bitter phoenix]

I’ve actually looked at like, all the flakes I could find on GitHub and my my friends flakes, if you wanna figure out how to do things in nix you can just use keywords in GitHub with the language filter, super useful

[glass jetty]

had one issue with keyring, its all

[kind nimbus]

That's what I always end up doing lmao

I kinda feel there's still stuff missing in my flake

[bitter phoenix]

Nix solved tons of things at conception, like you can’t delete root. But to each their own

[kind nimbus]

I use impermanence btw

[bitter phoenix]

I feel pretty complete, I rarely make changes

[glass jetty]

you cant delete root by accident in linux

[sage crag]

what if you

turn on gnu coreutils fuzzer

[rough bloom]

that's probably one of the least important things it does but yeah it technically does that

[silent cloak]

bros not gonna land a programming job

[sage crag]

i had spicy food earlier but it wasnt enough and i can still smell it

[fast pagoda]

Stinky

[kind nimbus]

Jokes on you my rootfs is tmpfs

Good luck deleting it

[kind fable]

shush i'm not in murica i'm in EU

[bitter phoenix]

Did you know you can just turn off immutability, for fun
boot.readOnlyNixStore = false;

[sage crag]

fragrant

[glass jetty]

just use consteval

[kind nimbus]

I did not know that lmao

[glass jetty]

rust stable consteval functions soon @tm

[silent cloak]

sure

[rough bloom]

ye can still do so, I don't think impermanence really helps with this

[silent cloak]

i still need to use it at some point

ive yet to move past constexpr

[glass jetty]

really, i use consteval most of the time
i have less then 4k of template code in repos

[sage crag]

Natural := fn($c: type): type return struct {
    suc := Natural(@CurrentScope())
    pre := c

    erm := fn($n: @Any()): @TypeOf(n) return n
    $fold := fn($base: @Any(), $step: @Any()): @TypeOf(erm) return fn($n: type): @TypeOf(base) {
        acc := base
        $while n != zero { acc = step(acc) n = n.pre }
        return acc
    }

    add := fold(@CurrentScope(), fn($x: type): type return x.suc)
    sub := fold(@CurrentScope(), fn($x: type): type return x.pre)

    mul := fold(zero, fn($x: type): type return x.add(@CurrentScope()))

    fact := fn(): type {
        $base := struct { p := zero.suc c := @CurrentScope() }
        return fold(base, fn($x: @Any()): @Any() return struct { p := x.p.mul(x.c) c := x.c.pre })(@CurrentScope()).p
    }

    to_uint := fn(): uint {
        return fold(0, fn($x: uint): uint return x + 1)(@CurrentScope())
    }
}

zero := Natural(never)

fib := fn($x: type): type {
    $a := zero
    $b := zero.suc

    $while x != zero {
        $t := a.add(b)
        a = b
        b = t
        x = x.pre
    }

    return a
}

one := zero.suc
two := one.suc
four := two.add(two)

main := fn(): uint {
     return @eval(fib(four.mul(two).suc.suc.suc.suc.suc).to_uint())
}

[rough bloom]

the rootfs itself doesn't matter because it doesn't contain anything, but it'll just recurse into your home directory and /var and stuff
same result

[silent cloak]

i barely touch templates tbh

i dont like that type of abstraction besides for small things

[kind nimbus]

You wanna delete something from ram?

If i reboot it'd back lol

[glass jetty]

macros are hell
idk, i not feel like it
id better use templates

[fast pagoda]

Btrfs snapshots that hook on Pacman etc handles a lot of the generations rebuild stuff

Although yes nix rollback is much more granular, and it has to build properly first so it has a much more difficult time forcing anything broken severely in the first place, and nix you can just do your configuration not everything else with more ease

[rough bloom]

[fast pagoda]

But. I'm already too lazy to properly use snapshots

[rough bloom]

your home directory and databases hopefully not in RAM

[sage crag]

lutel

wrong language

[glass jetty]

just fuse rust and cpp

[kind nimbus]

No i only have / mounted as tmpfs

[rough bloom]

ye

[silent cloak]

but with C++ syntax pls

[rough bloom]

still have writable mountpoints

will just recurse into those mountpoints

and delete stuff

[kind nimbus]

If you delete my home it's still not gone

[fast pagoda]

Nope. It's nim again, sorry

[silent cloak]

https://tenor.com/view/wolf-angry-scare-gif-5183071

[sage crag]

oops! all nim

[fast pagoda]

Wolf from twilight

Jacob perhaps

I hate him so I don't look at him

Naw his fur is different

[bitter phoenix]

With home manger your hyprland files can be readonly

[sage crag]

i dont know anything about twilight but i have strong opinions about how to make it better

you cant guess

[silent cloak]

just a bad romance series

[fast pagoda]

Think that's Leah kek

[kind nimbus]

Yeah i have that anyway but i was talking about user data

I have automatic zfs snapshots enabled on all my datasets

[glass jetty]

nah
some things in rust are better
for example let instead of auto, types by default can nothing, move by default and copy only if derived, matching, break on label, lambdas syntax -> i actually want both cpp and rust lambdas

[fast pagoda]

https://tenor.com/view/possessed-gif-489543848622606586

[rough bloom]

snapshots probably
that's completely unrelated to Nix or impermanence though

can do that on Arch or whatever too

[silent cloak]

i think rust in on par with python for ugly hard to look at syntax

[fast pagoda]

I do it on arch

[olive sable]

[kind nimbus]

Correct but still you can't just delete my data that's the point

[glass jetty]

what

[fast pagoda]

Geologists do it in the dirt

[silent cloak]

ill take pretty much any other language over its design

[wispy pike]

I hate twilight all it did is give me nothing to talk about with the opposite gender when I was a kid

[fast pagoda]

I talked to them about it instead

It was greT

[sage crag]

modern language design practices strongly prefer let binding with type after identifier rather than before

[silent cloak]

it was a joke outside of myspace and tumblr