programming

[true hemlock]

[amber fractal]

I can't say I'm suprised

The only thing I might do is get the thunderbolt bois dealt with so it can be slightly portable

I really need a better way to mod those cables

I swear if I had those done I'd be more focused on actually getting a system that contains one of the framework mainboards and 4 P40 cards

[olive sable]

did i not?

its on my other drive, give me a sec

[amber fractal]

you never did

[worthy niche]

i just downloaded several GB of apple tts voices

[olive sable]

they changed the va of the mc in the new season of scissor seven

[worthy niche]

Btw Daniel (enhanced) is the tts they use for Daily Dose of Memes

[glad path]

me when hpppl micropython libs except theres no documentation for them lol

[worthy niche]

anyone in the letterswap have a T I could have? I must become The Man

[amber fractal]

I don't have a T only a t

[faint sandal]

are y'all still letter exchanging

vaint went back to Vani did she return the letters

or did she steal them and never returned them

[olive sable]

vaint did WHAT?

i guess theres a free t up for grabs

unless she already returned it?

oh

apparently it went back to t

[stray dragon]

yeah

[olive sable]

this is getting hard to enforce rules on lmao

[amber fractal]

t is simply a t spawner

[fervent jolt]

neuroWaveA

[stray dragon]

or a t despawner

[olive sable]

[amber fractal]

the best we have for rules is by best effort

[patent walrus]

i was looking through discord's OSS acknowledgements and found the source of so much pain

this fucking library https://github.com/words/stemmer

this shit right here https://words.github.io/stemmer/

[hearty notch]

oh is that why exact string search sucks and doesn't work

[patent walrus]

exactly

[hearty notch]

I've always wondered

how they fuck it up that badly lmao

[worthy niche]

I'm back, apparently you produce infinite ts?

[amber fractal]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh that makes total sense

[stray dragon]

where do think your letter t's come from

[amber fractal]

I recall it infinitly sucking

[quick condor]

Was watching an older clip of Vedal and Ellie talking about AI/neuro and I'd have to say its really interesting, even with him being secretive it's very interesting...

Idk if he has changed how he looks at it but (from what I understood) ellie was suggesting a system that was essentially what I do for thinking (gate model triggering a reasoning model behind the instruct model). But I'm also probably nowhere near as constrained latency wise given I have the advantages that come with 2025 models. reasoning models are only about 13% slower for TTFT (10ms) and 20% slower token generation (7 t/s)

[worthy niche]

can i have one?

[stray dragon]

ask again once i've finished my cereal

[amber fractal]

nothing is safe

[stray dragon]

i hate this

[hearty notch]

lmfao

[obsidian mantle]

i have .gitmodules file that seems to be ignored (i renamed it to .gitmodule12313123 it, git submodule command still works)

[worthy niche]

I'm gonna be busy in a bit...
...watching (crying bc of) the LIFE mv

[amber fractal]

report back with your own finds from here

[obsidian mantle]

how does it work? it reads it from server where i cloned this thing from?

[stray dragon]

you've got time

[worthy niche]

fine 🙁

[patent walrus]

searching one seems to yield exacts for one and no on, but if i search for on nothing is highlighted

[amber fractal]

:SAVED:

[warped bolt]

wdym?

[jagged turtle]

discord moment

[jagged turtle]

would you like a T?

[obsidian mantle]

i want to add new library to this repo im editing but it completely ignores changes i make to .gitmodules file
i can remove the file it will still git update without problems

oh i mean git package

or how its called

[worthy niche]

yes please, t is being stingy with their t

[obsidian mantle]

git submodule module

something

[amber fractal]

if a -ing doesn't get removed, for example an emote only the last layer of -ing gets removed

[warped bolt]

did you initially add the repo with git submodule?

[jagged turtle]

t

[warped bolt]

I'm stealing this

[jagged turtle]

no

[worthy niche]

too late

[quick condor]

Also the way Vedal explains stuff it sounds like he struggles with post-hoc rationalization

[obsidian mantle]

i edited the .gitmodule file in notepad

is this the problem

i have to use command?

[jagged turtle]

he has become The Man™

[warped bolt]

maybe. git submodules are configured with more than the .gitmodule file

[worthy niche]

Lemme capitalize it rq

[jagged turtle]

wdym

[worthy niche]

There we go, kinda fitting with my current pfp

[warped bolt]

try undoing the change you made to .gitmodules if you can and then run git submodule add <repourl>

[jagged turtle]

alternatively nuke and re-submodule

[olive sable]

after a while it gets hard to see where the letters came from and if they're legit

[amber fractal]

teste e ine searche

[jagged turtle]

it's mostly for fun anyways, at least until it becomes a server event

[olive sable]

we need to put this shit on the blockchain

[warped bolt]

just be sure to run this in the directory you want to clone the repo in. moving submodules can be a pain if you're not careful

[amber fractal]

all of the e's minus the solo e get removed

[warped bolt]

even though supposedly modern git does the dirty work automatically with git mv it somehow still broke when I did it

[amber fractal]

only in doesn't match ine all of the others do

[warped bolt]

the stemmer appears to speak italian

(I don't know italian and have no idea what I'm talking about)

[amber fractal]

More specifically it strips italian from the message

[warped bolt]

one may say it is $U-I_{talian]$

[amber fractal]

so e almost always gets deleted regardless of word

ing only gets removed once, so xdxinging should only remove the last ing

I can't search the message

oh no

I have to include the ` for it to find the message

it isn't stripped

okay, that is actually very useful

[warped bolt]

interesting behavir

[amber fractal]

This one will be fun, the ` is required and won't match without it present affects all of this text styling

it does rstrip but not lstrip

[dusky jackal]

He's added a lot of features and updates that aren't on that list. Vedal constantly finds ways to improve the girls in ways that he will never divulge. I've seen a lot of AIVTubers that use memGPT/RAG, and none of them are nearly as complex as Neuro and Evil. Their LLM isn't the largest, but all the improvements that Vedal has made to them have made them very advanced as streaming agents.

[obsidian mantle]

i had to use commands to add packages instead of modifying the .gitmodules file manually. it all worked out now

[dusky jackal]

You can definitely make an AIVTuber with time, but don't expect them to be anything like how Neuro and Evil are now.

[jagged turtle]

the reason why it's short is just in case people dont have the attention span to read the entire thing and only want the "important bits"

not making that up trust

[amber fractal]

I should spend some time on that, but it keeps getting sidelined

[warped bolt]

In case you need it for future reference, in addition to the .gitmodules file, Git also tracks custom config, data etc. for each submodule in their respective .git/modules/<rel-path-to-submodule> folder. It is basically the .git/ folder, but in a centralized place for submodules. Relative path to that folder is also referenced by the .git file in the root directory of each submodule.

tl;dr If you ever have to tweak submodules manually again, you'll want to check & fix paths in / for all of the above files / directories

oh also unrelated tip but if git-submodule complains about a submodule not existing when it clearly does, check if you accidentally left a trailing / in any path in .gitmodules (in addition to checking that all of the above files/directories have the right content / are in the right place)

[quick condor]

Well yah I get that but also idk, it's hard to explain. I get that he's careful but like avoiding explaining why post-hoc realization is a problem with llms isn't specific to the twins.

As for their model size, the more I work with my system, the more my thoughts on what they run on shifts to the lower end

[jagged turtle]

it's fine surely people won't come in and ask that often anyways

[amber fractal]

[jagged turtle]

anyways I found a set of interesting python packages

mostly because despite being counterparts to each other, one has a proper server mode and one kinda doesn't

[amber fractal]

I'll work on it once I'm done with my NN project, it will happen trust

[jagged turtle]

as in like there's an example

[dusky jackal]

They aren't that low, but probably aren't huge. Likely around 8b but a lot of that was guessed a year ago, before all their current upgrades. They're definitely big enough to efficiently call functions and such.

[jagged turtle]

uhm

yeah efficiently

[quick condor]

My guess was originally 70B but that's shifted to 13B. I tend to overestimate though since my gate /sentiment analysis model is 8B and the core is 2 dense 24Bs.

[dusky jackal]

They might use a larger model now, or at least have a larger model as part of their systems so idk tbh, but they probably aren't under 8B.

[quick condor]

The problem is that based on the time frame, and various other factors it's likely not a 24/36B. That most likely restricts it to either 13 or 70b

[gaunt vale]

i've started working on a new god damn game

[chilly night]

shit bro we got gravity gun in the big 26

[gaunt vale]

ye

[chilly night]

half life 3 confirmed

[gaunt vale]

it literally works the same way the actual gravity gun works

set the mass of the grabbed object to 1
give it a fixed constraint
???

[chilly night]

profit

[olive sable]

this is just how half life 3 will look
the graphics are so realistic that your gpu cant even render them

its rendering each individual molecule, but due to lack of floating point precision in gpu hardware it gets rounded to 0

[gaunt vale]

the backpack is there because i want to have death stranding's cargo mechanics, but idk if that would be too much and just focusing on the chud daughter is a better idea

[chilly night]

i fcked around making like a garrys mod type thing before too, cuz i always rly liked garrys mod

its reall fun messing around with physics

i dont have the files anymore so finding clips of it is hard

[gaunt vale]

what surprised me is how simple valve's solution is

compared to my own old one and what i've seen online

the physgun was actually not a garry's mod thing, it was a scrapped hl2 weapon

[chilly night]

ye ik garrys mod is pmuch just half life sandbox

[gaunt vale]

in fact the first gmod version all it did was enable the weapon_physgun.cpp

[mighty bane]

YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

[gaunt vale]

either way, it's surprisingly simple, just attach a physics object to a joint, teleport the joint to the correct position and have the physics engine solve it for you

[chilly night]

oh does this listen to streams without opening them?

[mighty bane]

It can. But why would you do this?

[chilly night]

oh i was just wondering what the purpose of it was

is it to just open the stream or

oh i found a clip where i added the gravity gun launching mechanic, shooting the cubes out of the air was fun

[mighty bane]

I have a list of streamers I monitor. If any of them go live it yells at me (as heard in clip) and opens their stream.

[chilly night]

oh thats neat

[mighty bane]

I use in conjunction with specific streamers where I also have hte program kill itself upon first found streamer, which allows task scheduler to first run that (and open the stream) and ping my discord and then start a very loud alarm.

[obsidian mantle]

okay it seems to work

[olive sable]

i ownder when they'l add ai to blender

so i dont have to manually choose my physics settings

[amber fractal]

Everything clipping through the floor

[olive sable]

the idea is to fix clipping actually

[trim valve]

https://github.com/ahujasid/blender-mcp (I have no idea if this is a real project or not but there was at least one sketchy fake download page on Google)

[olive sable]

claude

[amber fractal]

MCP is definitely a real tech, interesting one as well

[olive sable]

minecraft pocket edition

[amber fractal]

In this case it is Model Context Protocol
Allowing to place functions and details of a program in the context of an LLM

[real sierra]

those are connected through the tunnel I plan to use in production

[amber fractal]

[real sierra]

so I'm excited to see it working so easily

barely any tinkering was needed

[trim valve]

I'm not doubting that MCP exists, I just also know half the ai tools that exist are probably scams for gullible people if you do it wrong

[amber fractal]

True

I wouldn't trust the github, but the tech it claims to use is interesting

[olive sable]

i have an idea

first physics, then subsurface modifier

so the physics wont take 20 minutes

[young plover]

MCP "interesting tech"

It's a JSON RPC schema

I always laugh when I see people talking about MCP security as if the messaging protocol is the problem. If your MCP server allows Claude to read ~/.ssh and upload it pastebin then rip bozo, you deserve it.

[glass flower]

i'm pretty sure there are plans to add AI to blender. but like the good type. so things to help you UV unwrap or remesh etc. that kind of thing

[nocturne olive]

And how many secret tokens that should never be public are passing trough unencrypted network?

[opaque wharf]

Woah, superbox is still the same

How come no one exchanges a name letter with you?

[amber fractal]

he refuses to do so for "brand guidelines"

whatever that means

[jagged turtle]

current vite release version :evilWYSI:

[opaque wharf]

Is that the version with rolldown? I've been using the beta for a while now

[sage crag]

neuroFumoFriend

[ivory plinth]

[jagged turtle]

the rolldown version is vite 8

vite 7 honestly wasn't that big a deal in terms of user-facing changes

the only changes were node and browser support

[opaque wharf]

Wait, what node support?

[jagged turtle]

Vite 7 dropped support for Node.js 18

[opaque wharf]

Ohhh, I thought vite 7 can be used to make backend packages too

[jagged turtle]

nah

you still gotta use express or hono or something like that

actually, the closest thing we've gotten to proper backend support for vite recently has been the environment api

but that's for running the code, not building it

[sage crag]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=HeAocpT8Yy0

[opaque wharf]

Welp, still tsc it is. Can't wait until the golang version is released

[jagged turtle]

tsgo is going to be SO fun

it'll finally (probably) make type-checking worth it to integrate into faster bundlers

e.x. esbuild, rspack, rolldown, etc

[opaque sigil]

https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/7184969 merged it seems

[left solstice]

I didn't know I could use AAC passthru instead of re-encoding it so I changed it. I also didn't know what the advanced options parameters like qcomp or bframes did since handbrake picked them automatically so I looked them up to check. Then raised qcomp to 0.6 and bframes to 3 but there was no size difference between bframes=2 and bframes=4 in my testing. I use 27 crf for videos I watch on PC or for memes I share on discord sometimes since discord video embeds are small and look good even at lower quality unless fullscreened. 25 or 23 crf if I want both good quality and size

AV1 decodes fine when playing even on old hardware, but it's way harder to encode. I tested it with [this 80MB video](#livestream-chat message) because it had a mix of nuro stream and irl footage, and AV1 at preset 6 took almost twice as long as h264 with about 40% larger filesize when encoding both at crf 25. Thanks for all the suggestions
I have a 1360x768 monitor which could be why it looks fine to me so can you check the h264 encode (crf 25) as well:

[opaque wharf]

Why would you prefer jxl anyway?

[rough bloom]

it's just JPEG but better
useful everywhere JPEG was useful

[hard delta]

"jpeg xl"

[opaque wharf]

Yeah, thats what I mean. I usually just use jpeg, so why use jxl? What advantage does it have?

[rough bloom]

smaller

[opaque wharf]

Oh, so better compression?

[rough bloom]

can losslessly reencode JPEG into JPEG XL and save some space

I'm sure JPEG XL has some other additions too, but this is a big feature of JPEG XL specifically

[opaque wharf]

Hmmm, what about the performance? Is it faster too or just around the same?

[sage crag]

https://tenor.com/view/borzoi-snoopa-lord-foog-dog-funny-gif-20125052

[sage crag]

it depends on your encoder settings

but typically jxl would be slower at its highest compression settings compared to jpeg

for encoding

decode is about the same iirc

pretty much "negligible"

note that jpeg and jxl are still a lot faster than png

[opaque wharf]

Hmm, if it saves around 50% space then I think that is a reasonable tradeoff. So, how much better is jxl usually compared to jpeg?

[sage crag]

and jxl scales with image size really well

[sage crag]

like 20-40%, i would say

though, you get more savings on larger images

[opaque wharf]

Oh, so it is worth it

[sage crag]

you might even get a 20% saving on lossless jpegs, jxl is a better format

[trim valve]

I did a test for jxl and you can survive a lot better at tiny file sizes

[sage crag]

though, if you have a lossless image, reencode to avif instead

[sage crag]

avif is pretty ridiculous

[opaque wharf]

I've never used avif. Why is it good for lossless compared to png?

[sage crag]

storage size

[rough bloom]

lossless webp also really good in my experience
but that was a very specific (limited palette) test so mabe doesn't apply everywhere

[sage crag]

its like, not even close

[opaque wharf]

Got it. But is it widely supported by browser tho?

[sage crag]

though, avif is quite expensive to encode

[hard delta]

we need .jaxl

[sage crag]

i'd say so

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1458911901919482000.webp?size=48&animated=true&name=banbnabadog

[sage crag]

^this is avif

[hard delta]

tiny dog

[sage crag]

this gif was 2mb at 128x128, and 70kb reencoded to avif

[trim valve]

https://squoosh.app/editor

this is a cool site to compare

the biggest kinda stuff for me when I was testing things was this

[sage crag]

i uploaded a 20mb cr2

will it work

no

i uploaded a 78mb png

[opaque wharf]

Noice

[sage crag]

its an exported image from darktable

which is always huge

[trim valve]

also jpeg completely falls apart at tiny sizes

[sage crag]

wrr

jpeg

old

[trim valve]

still, looking forward to jxl going into the browser

can finally revive progressive image loading

[fickle rain]

Damn what Skyrim mod has quickhacks

[dusky jackal]

Yeah that’s possible.

[proven merlin]

Pro tip: lowsrc and src :)

Yes, thats html3 era stuff

But who cares, it has no reason not to work

[proven merlin]

See how it doesnt say why?

At that point ignore and use anyway. It has no downside, most browsers ignore it, because its so unused, but those that dont profit massively

(most Software Development is just enshittification anyway..)

[trim valve]

[trim valve]

https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/obsolete.html#non-conforming-features

why would I use the feature that tells you not to use it

instead of the working one

[proven merlin]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification

[trim valve]

this is literally better

[proven merlin]

Not every browser can do progressive jpeg. Ofcourse best bet is to do lowsrc + src (progressive)

Which is why its stupid that they say "depricated" they should say "use this instead, and consider still using lowsrc"

[trim valve]

????

it literally does not say consider using it

[proven merlin]

It SHOULD say so

[trim valve]

it is deprecated

[trim valve]

also like

which ones??

as far as I can tell all of them do

[proven merlin]

Its stupid that they say Depricated. Thats what i said, it costs you almost nothing to also add lowsrc

[trim valve]

but there are better alternatives?

[proven merlin]

Older ones, but those older ones can handle Something like wikipedia fine and there isnt a reason why Something like wikipedia shouldnt offer lowsrc as example

[rough bloom]

doesn't it require encoding a smaller version of every image?

[trim valve]

even then its not complete lack of support

[proven merlin]

Its not an alternative though. Its am Extension. Using as example a heavy compressed bmp or png/jpg (normal, non progressive) as lowsrc (greyscale, low res, low bitdepth), and then having src as a progressive streamed in image would work.

[trim valve]

its just "this will load like a normal jpeg"

[fleet jungle]

Ooh, discussing optimisation are we?

[rough bloom]

of course it's Internet Explorer

[proven merlin]

Yes, but the 1KB of a old super low Quality image does nothing storage wise.. Worst case you compress at runtime and keep in ram

[trim valve]

ok but a progressive image has similar negligible cost

[proven merlin]

I mean my Websites are IE3 compatible Out of spite but yea

[trim valve]

and is simpler for everyone to use

[rough bloom]

this does not sound like "costs almost nothing", implementing this sounds very annoying and unnecessary

[sage crag]

https://tenor.com/view/borzoi-snoopa-lord-foog-dog-funny-gif-20125052

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1460031442292703556.webp?size=48&animated=true&name=autismu

[fleet jungle]

This reminds me of the idea of memory area arrangement, limiting specific areas to specific purposes rather than dynamic allocations

[sage crag]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1421763041074217092.webp?size=48&animated=true&name=MyHonestReaction~1

[fleet jungle]

Akin to the days of DOS

[proven merlin]

Somewhat yeah. Although lowsrc does allow it working as a fallback for unsupported image formats.. idk if HTML5 has anything for that.. probably tbh the "fallback text" could probably be abused for that

[proven merlin]

Its a case of having to reimplement it, older servers did this on the fly.. if you enabled it iirc

[rare bramble]

PDFs recently adopted the JXL format so that will pretty much force chrome, firefox and others to add full support for it, since they all want to be able to render PDFs

[proven merlin]

Idk how that reminds you off that, but it's not a particularly bad thing.. probably not the best but it works.. and it worked with the limited memory and compute they had..

[fleet jungle]

Yea

[warm zealot]

ooh finally

[rough bloom]

[obsidian mantle]

I was just testing if that api can actually make skyrim connect to some socket

But yeah its funny too

[fleet jungle]

I think the severe limitations forced many Devs to optimise. There might've been a point where new hardware came out that ran the incredibly optimised software incredibly well, before the developers of the time took advantage of the more abundant resources of new hardware

[sage crag]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1154436961277313126.webp?size=48&animated=true&name=evilSlam

[proven merlin]

If you tell people you surfed the web back in the day on 4MB of ram, and that you want a simmilarly experience nowadays, they look at you funny.. why must something like firefox eat 1gb of physical ram, and snowball into 40GB of virtual memory.. it kinda pisses me off ngl. I can understand complexity, but if you consider we did very simmilar things waay before "Half a gigabyte of ram" was a thing..

[rough bloom]

[fleet jungle]

Isn't that crazy?

[sage crag]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1458911901919482000.webp?size=48&animated=true&name=banbnabadog

[fleet jungle]

I've seen very simple programs needlessly taking up to half a hundred MB, and this just for meagre tasks

[proven merlin]

Don't get me wrong, i love av1, jxl and so on, all for more efficiency, lz4 is my favorite. But please make it run decently.. its why i still use win 95/xp, cuz those were still limited.. putting myself in those limits forces me to make better code

[proven merlin]

Windows 11 task bar being Node.JS as example.. it makes me wanna cry. I must be scared to open and close an app too often, and end up with a JS memory leak

[fleet jungle]

Dotnet compilation is scary. I made a program to simply write to console and I got a file in the size of MBs, just a small binary program that merely writes output being no bigger than like 50b

I wonder if the recent sluggishness we experience from the latest windows operating system is akin to the days when MS revealed vista over xP

Like, maybe ms has higher hardware standards than the complacent consumer base idk

[proven merlin]

That is an interesting thing. I do know some .net devs that are insane and managed to absolutely slim it down. The funny thing is, the main thing i noticed? .net 4 and such

[proven merlin]

For sure.

I mean, just install xp in a vm and allocate one of your many cores and a fraction of your ram

[trim valve]

why do you care about virtual memory usage

[fleet jungle]

lol bro

I gave win 95 a test run

[proven merlin]

Even though your pc is now running two OS's, through translation and so on, it will still feel snappier.

[trim valve]

I have seen chrome reach multiple terabytes, it doesn't correlate at all to physical usage

[fleet jungle]

I could run that on L3 cache if that were possible it's so small

[sage crag]

l3 cache is typically under 64mb

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1277044182527246358.webp?size=48&name=minyanstare

[fleet jungle]

oh

maybe I misunderstood the current L3 standard, seeing the AMD 3D cache

[proven merlin]

Because its rediculous? Virtual memory is more or less swap if shit hits the fan. Not to mention, the more memory you have, the more memory your cpu has to look through (if you even have to look at the data ever again, which often you dont, so you could also just discard it)..

[sage crag]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1454583294753771530.webp?size=48&name=evilDentge

virtual memory is virtual memory

[rough bloom]

[sage crag]

its not physically allocated

[fleet jungle]

Is it true most people use AMDs for CPUs now?

[trim valve]

do you have the UK secondary school teaching understanding of virtual memory

it's the only place I've heard it called equivalent to swap

[nocturne olive]

Hmmm, I wonder why my drives are so full

[proven merlin]

Did you see that one EPYC cpu? 1.3GB of L3, and with older AMD microcode and coreboot modded in a way called "L3 as RAM", you could install XP tp L3 and run it from L3 and in L3

[sage crag]

amd desktop marketshare is about 33% in late 2025

[fleet jungle]

I have a desktop tower from 2012 I think. I think that was in the era when Intel was standard

[fleet jungle]

oh

[fickle rain]

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15951196-what-makes-it-page
Very nice book :)

[fleet jungle]

I'm wrong about everything it seems

[sage crag]

well, it doesnt hurt to google something before you say it

though asking a question isnt by any means bad

[fleet jungle]

oh mate server CPUs are no joke

[sage crag]

wrr

[fleet jungle]

Someone made a software for that if I recall

cache as RAM

[tender river]

speaking of windows

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortochka

[sage crag]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1424355471887699988.webp?size=48&name=MONKA

what happened to leaf

[fickle rain]

Fortnite reference?

[tender river]

infix operator

[fleet jungle]

Wild what you can do if you know how to work with computer data

[proven merlin]

I said "if shit hits the fan". Either way, if it stores data, you gotta store it on physical. If its just boilerplate, you might aswell allocate it when you need it to actually hold data. Where do you think the "virtual memory" stores its information about what virtual memory is supposed to be what? Exactly, in ram. The filesystem as example also uses storage to know where files are located, even if the files themselves are 0 bytes in size

[sage crag]

[tender river]

ermtosis

[trim valve]

idgi

even then how is lots of virtual memory an issue

[proven merlin]

Its slow

[sage crag]

ermeiosis

[trim valve]

do you like

have benchmarks to support that

[sage crag]

it dentge

easiest way to manage memory is to virtually allocate a terabyte and and write a bump allocator

[fleet jungle]

Unfortunately I'm not such a person ... I tried running arch on that 2012 computer, which doesn't have bad hardware by any means, with the dream of it being buttery smooth. Alas, it has jittering here and there running plasma wayland.

[sage crag]

[proven merlin]

I dont, no. But its also a difficult thing to benchmark, as what i tried to explain depends heavly on what the OS wants to do.. and my main point was "no program ever needs 100GB of virtual memory" if it would, it would slow to a crawl.

[sage crag]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1138690372386701332.webp?size=48&animated=true&name=vedalPuppet

allocating virtual memory doesnt cost a program any performance

at all

the cost is zero

[proven merlin]

Because by then, when those 100GB virtual, on a 16gb physical machine, are fully used up, you hit swap.

[fleet jungle]

Maybe it's an NVIDIA issue (shifting the blame)

[trim valve]

I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what virtual memory is and why it is used

[sage crag]

some people just like to show up and say thing that make no sense

[obsidian mantle]

Is it part of ram or no

[trim valve]

it depends

[sage crag]

ram is physical memory

[trim valve]

I could mmap a file for example

[obsidian mantle]

If 2 programs allocate 80% of ram each size what happens

[proven merlin]

The cost is 0, aslong as your allocated or active memory is under the physical amount of ram. Which often is the case. If you have active memory larger than physical ram, on virtual memory, you get slowdown.

[sage crag]

virtual memory is an os abstraction

allocating a terabyte of virtual memory is completely fine

[obsidian mantle]

I mean allocate virtual

[sage crag]

it doesnt cost any physical memory

[obsidian mantle]

Ooh ok but then wtf does it do

[proven merlin]

Yes, but USING the actual terabyte is slow.

[sage crag]

its an abstraction

[sage crag]

ok, so we are in agreement, that allocating a large amount of virtual memory has no performance cost

[obsidian mantle]

Just let everyone allocate 500 tb

[trim valve]

this lets me access the file as though it's an array

but doesn't load it into memory

[obsidian mantle]

Notepad and discord and browser give everyone 500tb

[trim valve]

until I need it

and even then it only loads parts

[sage crag]

virtual memory allows memory sharing too, a program that says it uses 10gb of shared memory doesnt typically use a full 10gb of physical memory

[proven merlin]

if one program only would do that, yea. However, since a modern os runs THOUSANDS of programs at a time, you end up with tons of "virtual memory descriptors" which take real memory.
If you arent USING the virtual memory terabyte ACTIVELY you should free it.

[sage crag]

dentge

if you knew anything about os allocators you would know its false

[proven merlin]

So you wanna tell me the Memory Manager of an OS doesnt use up any ram, yea sure.

[faint sandal]

consider reading the memory manager section of windows internals

[sage crag]

oh no, it does, its just essentially cost free

[potent geyser]

Are we talking about page file?

[obsidian mantle]

We had some server issue that was out of file descriptors

[sage crag]

page files are a separate concept to memory pages

[rare bramble]

basically the OS divides memory into memory pages of ~4kb and those pages live on virtual memory adresses, each program also runs on a arbitrary memory adress that is invisible to the program. so the program can imagine being on a certain memory adress, when in reality it lives on another adress in the actual memory. Also having pages means that the OS doesnt have to allocate programs on contiguous adresses, a program can just live on multiple pages scattered across memory, even with some of those pages living on the swap disk

[proven merlin]

To me, even kilobytes used is a waste. Why waste those kilobytes when i could just implement something as streaming, or manually keep everything in real memory, and constantly keep everything as small as possible?

[sage crag]

it should be noted that not all virtual memory is paged virtual memory, virtual memory is a broader concept

[obsidian mantle]

But who and why would let it take more than physical ram

[sage crag]

its patently stupid to not use RAM for the reason RAM exists

if you want to compute everything in just one register you can

[nocturne olive]

Me when some dumb dataset wants to load into memory and so I end up with a 300GB pagefile

[obsidian mantle]

Wasn't it you who wanted 10kbps internet konii

[faint sandal]

here I'll save you some trouble - Windows Internals Ed.7 Ch. 5 Page 302

[proven merlin]

(this causes the memory manager to remember what pages belong to what program, costing real memory. Fine when you only run 10 programs, but when the os already runs 1000 youre outta luck imo)

[sage crag]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1138690372386701332.webp?size=48&animated=true&name=vedalPuppet

[nocturne olive]

That actually happened, when I was still on Windows

[proven merlin]

This is true aslong as ram is free. Oddly enough, your program isnt the only program running at a time.

[opaque sigil]

Are the kids discovering virtual memory now or what

[obsidian mantle]

Its gotta store these virtual addresses somewhere physical, no?

[opaque sigil]

page table

[proven merlin]

This.

[sage crag]

a limited resource is limited, shock.

just because a resource is limited doesnt mean you shouldnt use it.

[obsidian mantle]

And page table is physically located where

[faint sandal]

this conversation

[obsidian mantle]

Oh in os

[opaque sigil]

Your process

[proven merlin]

It also means you shouldn't just use it uselessly. Free anytime as soon as you dont need it anymore

[sage crag]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1454583294753771530.webp?size=48&name=evilDentge

[faint sandal]

[obsidian mantle]

So process stores its virtual adresses in its virtual adresses? i dont get it

[opaque sigil]

Its stored by the os as part of your process

[obsidian mantle]

Ok so its os

[rare bramble]

no, the virtual memory is invisible to the processes, it's the OS's job to handle them

[opaque sigil]

Yes

[obsidian mantle]

And os limits it

[proven merlin]

And the os uses? Real memory..

[faint sandal]

ye

[rough bloom]

at least in the case of browsers the high virtual memory usage is mostly for security
you can read up on gigacages and similar mitigations and sandboxing strategies yourself but basically you just allocate a ton of inaccessible memory that nothing is ever supposed to touch, if something does touch it then it could've otherwise accessed some internal structure outside of the JS heap, which you don't want
none of that memory is ever backed by physical RAM

[obsidian mantle]

Therefore we cannot actually allocate million terabytes of virtual memory

[proven merlin]

Yeah, Canaries.

[obsidian mantle]

If we have 1gb ram

[opaque sigil]

You can allocate however much you want

Allocation is free

Until you use it

[trim valve]

it just cannot be physically backed

[sage crag]

wrrr

[rough bloom]

not really what that is, no

[sage crag]

the amount of dentge here is hurting

[obsidian mantle]

So it looks like "from this physical adress lies 500 terabytes" but actually its 1gb and when it exceeds program crashes out of memory

[proven merlin]

Its not. The os has to store page tables. If you make a billion 2mb virtual memory areas, youll OOM.

[proven merlin]

Its functionally very simmilar, just "at runtime"

[sage crag]

you'll have a bigger issue if you spawn 1 billion processes

[fickle rain]

I need to buy physical version of that one day

[sage crag]

[opaque sigil]

[rare bramble]

when you allocate memory from the OS, or ask for lets say 100GB of ram, the OS gives you the permission to use the RAM, but does not allocate anything yet, only when you start writing / reading on the memory, the OS does the allocation of that memory

[sage crag]

note that it doesnt allocate the full memory

[proven merlin]

Considering modern osses that sit at 1000 processes just to be booted, we arent far away from it.

Let me clarify, i dont mind virtual memory, i mind excessive use.

[obsidian mantle]

This is why os doesnt crash when Firefox uses all ram

Right?

[trim valve]

[fickle rain]

Very cool

[sage crag]

im running osu, librewolf, discord, and im currently sitting at

user@nixos ~> ps -e | wc -l
333

333 processes

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1454583294753771530.webp?size=48&name=evilDentge

[sage crag]

that's all processes, even paused ones

[faint sandal]

every household that uses windows should be legally required a cooy

[trim valve]

this is with firefox, task manager, spotify

[fleet jungle]

Thought just occurred to me. A byte is technically just a number, meaning you can use them for any quantifiable application. 1Bms is 255ms

[trim valve]

tailscale, sunshine, some extra stuff I don't need

[proven merlin]

One or two reasonably sized virtual memory areas are good and all, but some of the shitshows of code, are rediculous.. either you havent seen the horrors i have as a system Integrator.. (i have to get the shit code from others working on a underpowered machine because corporations be like that), or im talking Chinese..

[fickle rain]

A guy recommended uh
Practical Malware Analysis
Rootkits and Bootkits
Windows Internals
What Makes It Page
When I asked for advice on bachelor’s thesis source books

I read them all and still don’t understand shit about Windows

[faint sandal]

windows internals because most malware books are pretty ass

[sage crag]

i dont think task manager shows kernel processes does it?

[faint sandal]

you'll get hands on when actually looking at malware

[proven merlin]

Well thats linux, and its one of the few thats still sane. Linux used to be at about 30 a few years ago tho so.. yeah.

[sage crag]

i was wondering why my number would be higher than yours

[faint sandal]

you'd need system informer with kernel driver enabled

[sage crag]

no it didnt

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1454583294753771530.webp?size=48&name=evilDentge

[faint sandal]

alternatively windbg with kernel debugging enabled

[sage crag]

ive been using linux for over half a decade at this point

[obsidian mantle]

Linux L

[sage crag]

its simply because linux isnt hiding the kernel processes from me

[proven merlin]

Yes it did. You can still get there with LFS nowadays if you don't believe me lmao

[sage crag]

that's not generic "linux", that's a very particular setup

[proven merlin]

Linux Userspace became cancer real quick lately.

[proven merlin]

Idk, gentoo gets there aswell

[sage crag]

the linux userspace right now is no different to how it was before

this is ragebait

[proven merlin]

ArchLinux with a very careful selection too

[trim valve]

[meow@nixie:~]$ ps -e | wc -l
51

there

nixos wsl

[sage crag]

wsl is cheating a little

[faint sandal]

isn't this entire conversation ragebaiting

[sage crag]

i think so

[faint sandal]

[sage crag]

or this person is just stupid

[trim valve]

[sage crag]

one of the two

[trim valve]

I love ragebait

[sage crag]

that's how it usually goes

overconfident idiot or ragebaiter

[proven merlin]

It absolutely isnt, linux used to boot to desktop with something as big as kde3 with less than half a gig of ram and use a browser. Try that nowadays lol

[sage crag]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1421861060507602944/1425936142754123927/neuroCatModeOfOfnnfOOf.webp

[obsidian mantle]

So rude

[faint sandal]

[sage crag]

i pledged to be more rude this year

[rough bloom]

the consequences of moving this channel next to genchat

[faint sandal]

move it into neurotic neurons

[sage crag]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1345473984921079848.webp?size=48&animated=true&name=evilNod

[faint sandal]

[sage crag]

do not

[opaque sigil]

Can we go back down

[trim valve]

replace nn with programming

[proven merlin]

Anyways, this all just proves my point

[sage crag]

https://tenor.com/view/uma-musume-uma-im-no-ears-im-all-ears-horse-gif-4308252428337868305

[obsidian mantle]

One day people you didnt enlighten will install software on your isp server konii

[proven merlin]

It was possible with 4MB back then, easly. We dont do anything more special and suddenly were at a point an OS itself wants 4GB to run horribly

[sage crag]

[faint sandal]

[sage crag]

i cant stand this anymore please call me back when the brainrot is over

[nocturne olive]

Windows moment

[sage crag]

[lunar basin]

type

[faint sandal]

type

[tender river]

type

[sage crag]

no

you dont like types

you are untype

[lunar basin]

🫩

[tender river]

i dont like bad types

[trim valve]

can you make your linux machine run on 4MB soup box

[opaque wharf]

Woah, even chay is not immune to letter swap

[sage crag]

not if you want to load the nvidia driver blobs

om

[nocturne olive]

I haven't tried but certainly less than Windows

[proven merlin]

I wish it was just windows and not like 90% of distros. There are atleast alternatives with linux so thats something to hope for.

[proven merlin]

I did with 8mb on a 6.1 kernel, modern display server bumps it to about 120mb tho.. DSL linux back then managed with 14mb or so iirc

[trim valve]

[proven merlin]

TinyCore gets my respect as a DSL "second version". Its not quite as small but its still crazy for how much more modern it is

DSL2 however kinda missed completely, iirc that doesn't even attempt to boot with 128mb ram, unless they fixed that

[obsidian mantle]

So the conclusion on virtual memory was that system actually doesnt have trillion processes so virtual memory is basically free for each process

[proven merlin]

Yes, aslong programs arent stupid they can pretend to have a shit ton of memory.

Why theyd do that i still dont understand but im not gonna bother as i target win95 anyway..

[obsidian mantle]

Why 4mb

Werent there times when it was 4kb

[opaque sigil]

Why stop there, 4B

[obsidian mantle]

Yes why

[sage crag]

1 32-bit integer

[faint sandal]

4 billion quantums

4 atoms

[obsidian mantle]

Because its convenient and easy to use and gives freedom

[faint sandal]

this conversation dawg

[opaque sigil]

I will torture the tlb and you can't stop me

[obsidian mantle]

Memory leaks have nothing to do with this, i do not support memory leaks

[hard delta]

tfw 4070ti can barely train 4B

[faint sandal]

4 breads

[obsidian mantle]

In case of any federal investigation

[sage crag]

its okay to leak memory as long as your process isnt persistent

[faint sandal]

4 banana bread

[hard delta]

i support leaking ddr5 memory from the memory store into my pc

[rare bramble]

I misrembered, it is 4kb not 4mb, I just remember it was 4 something

[opaque sigil]

I want banana bread

[faint sandal]

I need to look into buying banana bread around me or my workplace

it's been a while since I last had one

[proven merlin]

Id guess 4mb because of a tradeoff between "memory waste" and amounts of pages possible using up more space..

half the grids content and you gotta remember double (or 4x depending on how accurate you wanna think) of pages and their identifiers or so.. idk yapping and guessing here, im comparing it to sector size on disks..

[obsidian mantle]

Nobo i just wanted to give example that you can go even lower regardless of mb or kb

It would be stupid to run entire os on 4mb when you have 128 gb of ram

Imagine how crammed it would be

And slow and

Ineffective

[proven merlin]

Tell that DOS lol

[obsidian mantle]

People use more ram because there is more ram

[proven merlin]

Happy with less than 640kb

[obsidian mantle]

Same with disk space for games i heard recently

[faint sandal]

can I have more RAM

like twice as much

[obsidian mantle]

The ram days are over

[trim valve]

can I have more ram so I can have twice as many dos installs

[hard delta]

aight chat here's a theoretical question:
you want to become the smartest little programmer.
however, you have to choose your first PC at a specific time of your life - and that will be the maximum specs you can use for any task until you're a senior developer.
if you choose it early, you will be starting your programming studies early on small hardware
if you wait, you'll have better hardware to program on, but you won't be able to do anything until you're old enough for that hardware to exist

when do you buy (and what)

[proven merlin]

Sure, at that point you kinda loose quality of life but yea

[faint sandal]

when are we gonna get 64gb consumer sticks

[opaque sigil]

Damn added the consumer

[sage crag]

you can program on any relatively modern hardware.

unless you need compute for some reason, you can use any computer.

[rare bramble]

current PC market is idk if I would want to buy anything currently

[fleet jungle]

Oh I just found out my nvidia GPU is no longer supported by pacman install. That aside, why are gpu drivers so massive anyway?

[faint sandal]

proprietary blobs presumably

[obsidian mantle]

Can you really choose when

As soon as you can

[fleet jungle]

Unless the wiki is not updated 🤔 considering it happened 2 weeks ago apparently

[opaque sigil]

You're going to have to grab the 580 driver from the aur

[proven merlin]

~2005-2010, probably a 4 core machine with about 8gig of ram.
My first machine i got at age 3, a pentium laptop with 120MHz and 16mb ram.. wouldn't mind still using it ngl

[obsidian mantle]

I got pc when i was 10 and i hate it

[trim valve]

idr what I got first for programming

[rough bloom]

they exist
I know that Crucial sold some, but they're kinda now

[trim valve]

I think it was a pentium laptop with a hdd?

hated that thing but at least it played gmod

[hard delta]

[faint sandal]

I'd really like 256gb

[trim valve]

couldn't keep terraria at a stable 60fps om

[proven merlin]

I was playing dos era doom on my pentium machine lol gmod wasnt even remotely doable for me

[fleet jungle]

I have a 1070. Is 580 part of Pascal too?

[trim valve]

i mean pentium is pretty wide

[faint sandal]

😭

[proven merlin]

Yea mine was 120Mhz like pentium 1-2 era or whatever

[hard delta]

my first pc was a pentium 2 300mhz with somewhere between 16mb-64mb ram too
i don't think i'd have enjoyed having that for high school 💀

[rough bloom]

the CT64G56C46U5
very good name

[obsidian mantle]

Wtf 220 gb?

[proven merlin]

I did PowerPoint on mine in 2014 lmao

With careful software selection it was enjoyable

[faint sandal]

those ai companies taking everything away from me

[proven merlin]

Surfing the modern web was the worst

2014, modern web.. hehe

[opaque sigil]

https://archlinux.org/news/nvidia-590-driver-drops-pascal-support-main-packages-switch-to-open-kernel-modules/ that's the last driver that supports pascal

[rough bloom]

more HBM

[proven merlin]

The hell are you running xD

Are you using ZRAM atleast?

[proven merlin]

I like that zram made downloading more ram real

[trim valve]

[fleet jungle]

Pretty cool that I get to be more involved with my system as the hardware support reaches end of life. I wonder what percemtage of the hardware on the tower can no longer receive updates

[trim valve]

why is my computer making new noises

[opaque sigil]

You have angered the machine gods

[proven merlin]

Thats usually a good sign

[hard delta]

https://tenor.com/view/warhammer-40k-techpriest-binaric-screeching-screeching-gif-20192683

there is only one

[trim valve]

wait turns out it might not be my computer

which is even less ideal

[fleet jungle]

PSU?

[proven merlin]

Im gonna scare some html developers with this sentence: ||i willingly put tables inside of tables in my free time||

[trim valve]

I dunno

it sounds like coil whine

but my pc is off

[faint sandal]

[hard delta]

if you ever need help, i know a good asylum

[faint sandal]

my psu makes coil whine too

[proven merlin]

LMAO, i think im past that.. like said, i target Win95 without updates and IE3 xD

[trim valve]

wait chat it might have been my door

[fleet jungle]

That does sound less than ideal

[proven merlin]

Bro found doorwhine

[trim valve]

ok no it still happens

[proven merlin]

Bro did not find doorwhine, nvm guys

[trim valve]

something seems to make cool whine noises when the door gets slammed in the hallway

I sure hope I don't have electrical issues in my walls

[proven merlin]

Perhaps an another door or the pipes vibrating?

[trim valve]

who knows

[rigid snow]

parts shopping continues, and i have to ask

[sage crag]

https://tenor.com/view/borzoi-snoopa-lord-foog-dog-funny-gif-20125052

[rigid snow]

does 5060ti 16gb version make sense

[sage crag]

@true hemlock

[rigid snow]

(to buy new)

[hard delta]

going for cheapest 16gb vram?

consider that it will be overall slower than a 70ti etc. cause it has less of everything else, but also idk

[rigid snow]

not really, it’s just the matter of going one step below the 5070

[hard delta]

i mean it's both a step forward and a step back

[rigid snow]

i know memory bandwidth sucks on the 5060

[faint sandal]

sorry I was snoring in the walls

[true hemlock]

its decent

[vestal relic]

Hey, I’m Bella. Independent, gym lover, and all about good vibes. I’m into music, cooking, and chill late-night chats. Always open to meeting interesting people and seeing where things go

[obsidian mantle]

is there a convenient way to make a table in c++ which will have pairs of "int and string"

[true hemlock]

what are you going to use it for and how much you'll pay for that 5060ti 16gb

[obsidian mantle]

and you can take ints using strings as keys
only map?

[nocturne olive]

Pretty sure they exist

[sage crag]

https://tenor.com/view/uma-musume-uma-im-no-ears-im-all-ears-horse-gif-4308252428337868305

bot

[rough bloom]

std::unordered_map I think

[obsidian mantle]

that one i know but it seems a bit over complex

[true hemlock]

just do struct array and index by iterating it. that'd be the fastest implementation

[rough bloom]

that just how C++ is

[true hemlock]

[obsidian mantle]

yeah idk why i said that

[rough bloom]

if you just do iteration and never lookups then ye a plain list works too

[true hemlock]

your fault for wanting to do c++

[rigid snow]

it’s $560 cheapest here, we’re at like an electronics market so it is literally the cheapest you can get here
we’re also considering the 5070 it’s around $725

[rough bloom]

choose appropriate data structure depending on how you access it

[obsidian mantle]

its because im working with alien code which is c++ and i dont know if its going to be easy to use another language in pair with it

[true hemlock]

I can't think of a use case where that'll be a large scale table do i presented the laziest method

[rigid snow]

all prices for new

[true hemlock]

[hard delta]

you're also a bot

[true hemlock]

5070ti.

for $560 bucks its not even worth it

[opaque wharf]

Can't you get anything secondhand instead? I think you can get a better deal

[rigid snow]

not considering second hand because the guy building the pc does not want to

[rough bloom]

if you want to actually use the C++ features and can't expose a C API to use from that other language, then yeah, better stick to C++ for everything

[rigid snow]

ye there are much better deals second hand

[opaque wharf]

Oh, if it is not for yourself then just go ahead

[vestal relic]

nah

[rigid snow]

we’re together say hi

[fickle rain]

What another language and how are you interfacing

[opaque wharf]

Hi

[obsidian mantle]

i could probably use python

[opaque wharf]

[sage crag]

https://tenor.com/view/borzoi-snoopa-lord-foog-dog-funny-gif-20125052

wrr

[opaque wharf]

No cats?

[tender river]

henlo

[true hemlock]

okay, would only say that $560 gor a 5060ti 16gb is pretty shit of a deal

5070ti has double the compute and bandwidth

[sage crag]

https://tenor.com/view/bunny-rabbit-pats-pet-bunny-pats-gif-19861222

[obsidian mantle]

the thing is, i will probably not need it much anyway, most of things will remain in cpp
so writing 1% of program in python sounds stupid in this case

[opaque wharf]

Hi chay! I think you missed my message about your name lol

[fickle rain]

I think just using most natural data structure is best
E.g unordered map

[true hemlock]

i'd help optimizing overall budget for that

[rough bloom]

just wait until you hear about the price of a 5070 ti

[opaque wharf]

Well in the current market, everything new is shit deal

[nocturne olive]

Just sell 8GB of RAM that'll cover it

[rigid snow]

ye the 5070ti is way out of budget

like by a lot

[true hemlock]

i misread

[obsidian mantle]

what is it, 500$?

[opaque wharf]

What is the use cases anyway?

[rigid snow]

gaming and occasional ml

[faint sandal]

well i don't see any here

[true hemlock]

thought he said 5070ti on the $725

[faint sandal]

so as far as i'm concerned they're unicorns

[true hemlock]

[opaque sigil]

If only

[obsidian mantle]

nvidia says 5070ti is 500-750$

[true hemlock]

[opaque wharf]

That is indeed what he said

[nocturne olive]

I've seen them replace 4x32GB kits here as the chepest 128GB options

[true hemlock]

no he said 5070

[hard delta]

not many options left then
occasional ml will like the 16gb vram and that it's not a radeon card
for purely gaming a radeon card might do better in the price range, idk

[faint sandal]

i'm talking about single 64gb sticks

[obsidian mantle]

is 2 sticks better than 4 sticks

[hard delta]

yes
4x sticks is gonna be slower clock, and usually can't xmp/expo

[nocturne olive]

Yeah 2x64GB kits replaced 4x32GB kits

Oh you mean as in sold invidually

[faint sandal]

yeah well they don't exist here

[true hemlock]

oh and this exists. i think crucial made them but very rarely there's any batch coming out

[obsidian mantle]

so 1 stick would be the best

[opaque sigil]

No

[nocturne olive]

DDR5 yes a lot

[obsidian mantle]

but why no

[nocturne olive]

No that's half the speed of 2 sticks

[faint sandal]

single stick is far slower

[nocturne olive]

2 memory controllers

[faint sandal]

you'd want 2 at minimum

[nocturne olive]

Dual channel fastest

[obsidian mantle]

do they lose their ddr power

[rough bloom]

DDR5 really wants one stick per channel for good signal integrity
consumer CPUs have two channels, so you use two DIMMs

[true hemlock]

if the ml is just running random models ig just take the 9070/xt

[obsidian mantle]

or its actually 2 sticks each is ddr and in pair its x2 more

[nocturne olive]

No there's just two physical memory channels on the CPU so if you have one stick one goes unused

[obsidian mantle]

oooohh

[opaque wharf]

Am blind lmao

[obsidian mantle]

i see

[true hemlock]

same i misread it aswell

i didn't get to sleep last night

[nocturne olive]

And with 4 DDR5 sticks it can be too much for the memory channels to handle 2 sticks each

[true hemlock]

[nocturne olive]

So 2x DDR5 is optimal

[obsidian mantle]

so 2 sticks is the best while processors have 2 memory channels

[nocturne olive]

On DDR4 there isn't too much difference between 2 and 4

[true hemlock]

nah, ddr4 is optimal
-# because of ram shortage

[opaque sigil]

Unless you have a big boy CPU with more channels

[trim valve]

can confirm 9070xt is good for gaming and fine for ml

[nocturne olive]

Yes
There's also processors with like 12 memory channels where 12 RAM sticks are optimal

[opaque wharf]

Wdym? DDR4 is already more expensive than DDR5 due to supply

Now with shortage, everything got worse

[true hemlock]

i can confirm this. my board used to able to do 4000mt/s on 4x16 ddr4 but neither 2x32 nor 4x32 would do xmp

[true hemlock]

ddr4 in many places is still way cheaper

[opaque wharf]

I swear to god this country is cursed

[rigid snow]

ok that might be big but also it’s more expensive than the 5070

[opaque sigil]

Less demand I guess but in return no production

[rigid snow]

ye like here

[true hemlock]

even the 9070?

[sick owl]

They should really have just waited for this to launch the thing

Their reputation is shot now

[rigid snow]

9070 same price

[nocturne olive]

DDR4 32GB: 250€
DDR5 32GB: 400€

DDR4 still cheaper

[rigid snow]

as 5070

[rough bloom]

is 1X

[nocturne olive]

Still, that's 100€ more than I paid for 64GB of DDR4 just a few years ago

[rough bloom]

oh, it's the spy robot makers

[true hemlock]

god damn

[trim valve]

1x developer sounds like a shitpost title

[true hemlock]

cunt where did you get these prices at in 'straya 2x32 ddr5 cost $600

[rough bloom]

we would've had AGI by now if they just named themselves 100X

[opaque wharf]

https://youtu.be/kKAue9DiHc0?si=5XCZEULAHgUjPcB_

[sick owl]

They made the home humanoid bots that at launch only really worked through teleoperation from some guy on minimum wage in the third world

[obsidian mantle]

i hate that my screenshots appear smaller than they are because upscaled monitor

[sick owl]

At launch it was basically slavery with extra steps

[nocturne olive]

This jimms.fi we have in Finland?

[rough bloom]

ye I looked it up
I forgot the name, but I will never forget the robots dead eyes

[obsidian mantle]

wtf

[true hemlock]

i have decided to just go with boards with ddr4 sodimm istg

for my next briefcase build

[opaque wharf]

Slavery without immigration

[sick owl]

Yeah the only thing it could do autonomously was open doors, you ask it to do anything else and it would go into "expert mode" where one of their "highly trained staff" would take over

[rare bramble]

also 'stray dollars =/= euros, 400 euros would be around $700 in aussie currency

[true hemlock]

tony at home

[true hemlock]

$600 in USD, not AUD

[rare bramble]

at least according to the exchange rate

[sick owl]

You were basically buying a slave in robot form it was pretty fucked

[nocturne olive]

Funny, I found a 32GB DDR4 stick for 70€

[hard delta]

this looks nice

[nocturne olive]

Laptop though

[true hemlock]

im aiming for something like these

[sick owl]

1000mhz

[hard delta]

[nocturne olive]

2666

Oh no way a real desktop kit

2666 too though

Seems to be the 2666 32GB version of my 64GB 3200

[rough bloom]

where are the extra 16% from

[opaque wharf]

From each thread doing the extra 1%

[obsidian mantle]

maybe they put extra 16% by mistake when produced this cpu

like +1 nugget

[nocturne olive]

If you want speed, 3600 is this much

[true hemlock]

cpu on anime power up moments

[nocturne olive]

Why is there 2GB sticks at 200€?

[warm zealot]

ddr4....

not even ddr5

[nocturne olive]

Well let's see what they got on the DDR5 side

So obviously 16GB is already more than 32GB of DDR4

And again like double for 32GB compared to DDR4

More than double even if you count the 2666

[nocturne olive]

And that's only DDR5 4800

[trim valve]

my ram may have slightly gone up in price

[warm zealot]

damnn

i have 2x16 gb of ram and its lowkey tempting to sell one stick

but like when will it go back down....

[opaque wharf]

2030 probably

[nocturne olive]

This is basically my RAM
Except a bit faster because apparently the 3200 version is just gone now
I got my RAM for 150€ originally

[opaque wharf]

Just like the 2019 chip shortage takes a good few years

[nocturne olive]

So you can kinda still get 32GB DDR4
64GB don't even bother
DDR5 don't even bother

[trim valve]

for reference thats ~5x more

[nocturne olive]

At least mine is only around 3x more

I just remembered I still have a spare 2x8GB 3200 kit lying around

CL22, very latency

[fleet jungle]

this guy's funny

I love his interview series, esp the python one

[nocturne olive]

1.2V though, I wonder if it'd run faster with 1.35

[worthy niche]

i'm back... day 3 of making a discord tts inside apple shortcuts...

Because of how shortcuts works, I think the only way I can switch tts voices is by making an if statement for every single voice... oh boy this will be fun

[hard delta]

me in the auction house in random mmorpg / warframe selling a 500 worth item for 500k hoping for a rich misclick

[nocturne olive]

Sily

I wonder if anyone would misclick on 2x8GB for some really stupid price

[hearty notch]

gm

[hard delta]

830 eur for cheapest 2x32 ddr5

[nocturne olive]

Holy

[true hemlock]

i could get 2x 3090 with that wtf

[true hemlock]

i could get 2x 3090 with that wtf

[hard delta]

i love how the messaged was doubled just like the 3090

also this presents an idea...

just buy gpus and use them as ram

[true hemlock]

literally

would you rather

64gb ddr5

or

48gb gddr6x that comes with 2x GA102 chip free

[nocturne olive]

I'd take the GDDR6X

[sage crag]

https://tenor.com/view/borzoi-snoopa-lord-foog-dog-funny-gif-20125052

[obsidian mantle]

Yeah just solder out some ram from gpu its ddr7 there

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1458911901919482000.webp?size=48&animated=true&name=banbnabadog

[burnt oasis]

Hey guys!
Anyone knows a software that won't crash while trying to edit/cut 10hrs VODs?

Except custom python scripts...

[hard delta]

are you getting ooms?

[burnt oasis]

nah, i tried 2 free programs and they just crash in silence or freeze and stop responding (probably going 1 frame per hour or so, trying to process things)

[tender river]

try some ffmpeg ui

[nocturne olive]

How about this cool thing called ffmpeg?

[real sierra]

who knows, the networking implementation is a black box to me

in tls we trust

[nocturne olive]

Hem

[tender river]

ffmpeg without ui works just as well and might honestly be easier to setup

[nocturne olive]

Absolute ffmpeg

[burnt oasis]

Haven't seen ffmpeg in my google searches, will check that out then, thanks

[nocturne olive]

ffmpeg is literally what everything runs on

The core tool behind basically everything media processing

[rigid snow]

acquired 5070 for $712

[sage crag]

blazingly fast inference

12 tok/s on 4 bit, 1.1gb gguf model

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1455273822625333375.webp?size=48&name=mlntcandy

its pinning all of my cores to 100%

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1459293836764512336.webp?size=48&animated=true&name=vedLOL

[frozen hollow]

12 per second?

[sage crag]

yes 1 per core

[frozen hollow]

It’s warming up

[sage crag]

i have a mid-tier cpu

apparently its actually 15 tokens per second

its not using avx512

whatever

[opaque wharf]

I see the cursed idea in this channel never stops

[hard delta]

wrrr amd cpu go brrr

[sage crag]

wrrr

[true hemlock]

pull out de threadrippa

[hard delta]

or my name isn't pipkin pippa

[sage crag]

i have an rtx 3060 that i could try and use

but im worried

that it will turn my system into ash

[true hemlock]

what psu do you have

[hard delta]

bash

[opaque wharf]

Why would it turn your system into ash?

[sage crag]

im more worried about the gpu than the psu, the gpu is the one that killed my (former) system

[opaque wharf]

Ohh

[true hemlock]

the psu could matter

[sage crag]

its some 750w gigabyte

[opaque wharf]

[sage crag]

i dont remember it, its a fire hazard waiting to happen

[opaque wharf]

But konii... How did you know it was the GPU fault?

[true hemlock]

it might not

[sage crag]

because i put it in another system

[opaque wharf]

Lmao

[true hemlock]

30 series are known for the transients

[dark raven]

Hello, I'm the new guy. I'm sorry for interrupting. I speak some English, so I'll just be watching. I may join the discussions in the future

[sage crag]

i set it back to zotac under warranty and they said they didnt find any issues with it

but im a little concerned to try and use it in this system because i really dont have the funds to build another decent one if this one dies

wrrr

[true hemlock]

im trying to say that the transient on pcie connector could've affected the whole 12v rail

[idle dune]

I need something to do with my 64gb of ram. My Thinkpad is to overpowered for what I do daily.

[true hemlock]

if the topology on the psu is shit

[opaque wharf]

Hmm, transient shouldn't burn any other components no? Unless the PSU is some no name brand

[true hemlock]

.

[true hemlock]

.

[idle dune]

Yeah

What PSU is it

[sage crag]

whatever happened, my old psu, motherboard, and cpu were completely unusable afterwards

i had to rebuy everything

terrifying

[true hemlock]

what psu was it though

[opaque wharf]

R. I. P. In Peace

[sage crag]

i dont remember, it was a couple of years back at this point

evga or something

not sure what the wattage was

it drove the system fine for like, 3-4 years

[opaque wharf]

Yeah, even some branded psu have their own tier too. Like, the silver is the absolute minimum and then gold and the platinum

[true hemlock]

some evga n series are mining psu and those are ass

also w series are the same with cheaped out components

[true hemlock]

the tier doesn't tell shit

[sage crag]

and then it wouldnt power on one day, so i tried all the components and they were all dead, and when i tried the gpu in another machine that machine proceeded to die as well

[opaque wharf]

It is a best effort. So at least there is something rather than nothing

[true hemlock]

it could be a unit that uses group regulation and one transient on your 12v rail the whole shit goes apeshit

[true hemlock]

regardless of tier

[idle dune]

I had a APEVIA PSU in my old gaming pc back in 2012. Gambled having a FX 8350 and 7990 running on it.

[sage crag]

the translations im getting with this 1.1gb model are worse than deepl

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1277044182527246358.webp?size=48&name=minyanstare

time to try the "not 4-bit quantised" version

[opaque wharf]

I wonder how difficult it is to engineer an ATX PSU

[idle dune]

Very

It’s a small transformer taking 3 phase AV converting to DC and stepping up like crazy to do so.

[opaque wharf]

How different is it from some industrial smps?

[true hemlock]

dc-dc components are pricy

[opaque wharf]

I don't think atx uses 3 phase

[idle dune]

Same tech different application but at a much smaller scale

[idle dune]

Walls do. You need to power to come form somewhere.

[opaque wharf]

Wdym? If it was 3 phase I don't think they'll use IEC connector for it

[true hemlock]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1akCHL7Vhzk_EhrpIGkz8zTEvYfLDcaSpZRB6Xt6JWkc/edit?usp=sharing

[sage crag]

the slowest part about using these models is downloading them

dear god

[true hemlock]

this is a great read btw

[idle dune]

My bad it’s single phase