programming

[odd solstice]

i'd rather just do it myself

[rigid snow]

shadow why’d you drop lilac from your name

[odd solstice]

i dont think i need a crazy amount of data

[quick condor]

Not reasoning but these were a couple local runs I did

[stark needle]

god that gradient norm

increase weight decay

[odd solstice]

also i only have the hardware for small models (8gb or under pretty much) and dont wanna pay for apis so idk if that would work well

[stark needle]

good question

[quick condor]

that was a 3 epoch runs with a minimum learn rate

[trim valve]

oh what

[stark needle]

fair enough so prob overfitting

[quick condor]

the one spike was a boundary but otherwise within norms for mistral 24b

[trim valve]

I was literally thinking like an hour ago "what happened to shadow they just disappeared"

[odd solstice]

i used to scam togetherai by using the 30$ of credits i had racked up (that also didnt ever go down for some reason) but now u need to pay like 5$ to access the platform at all

[stark needle]

lmfao

[odd solstice]

i dont wanna give any company money if i dont have to

[quick condor]

mind you that I was only hitting a train/gradnorm of 1 at over step 800 which was 36 hours in

[stark needle]

36h

i hate how llms take so long to train

i trained the 1.7B on the distil on dgx spark and it took 24h for only 15% of the data

[quick condor]

that was a 24B model. One group I work with is currently messing with 123B and Command_A

[stark needle]

god

[odd solstice]

for me doing 1 epoch on my chat dataset with a 7b it takes 3 hours

for lora tho

[rigid snow]

identity crisis?

[stark needle]

my sister said my username was cringe

lmao

[quick condor]

my dataset was something like 28mb of raw text

[rigid snow]

your sister is cringe

[stark needle]

yeah she is also lol

[olive sable]

[stark needle]

hi VamManSaele

[odd solstice]

mine is 12.5mb

[olive sable]

close enough

hi shadow

or nyoom

[rigid snow]

i like how static greets people

Hi .shqdow.

[stark needle]

mine is uhhhh

[olive sable]

.parquet?

[stark needle]

parquet

[rigid snow]

apache parquet ye

[olive sable]

mf got that wooden flooring file exstenssion

[stark needle]

open source version of googles sstable

[odd solstice]

i just use sharegpt format in jsonl cuz unsloth supports it really well

[stark needle]

can hf dataset load jsonl natively

[odd solstice]

idk

[rigid snow]

ok genuine question do data science/ml people ever just use sqlite

it’s so much better

[odd solstice]

im too much of a noob to answer, but i dont even know what that is lol

[stark needle]

parquet is columnar storage

better for analysis/whatever

[rigid snow]

true didn’t think about that

[stark needle]

parquet with duckdb tho 🤤

[rigid snow]

just use clickhouse instance

[rough bloom]

ye also can't really modify parquet files AFAIK
need something like DuckDB

[stark needle]

yeah parquet cant be modified

it's rly just an unoptimized sstable

[sage crag]

@olive sable

[olive sable]

106K

[sage crag]

user@nixos ~/c/vrrr [SIGINT]> wc -l triangle.c
131 triangle.c

ye

[olive sable]

is the print always in the renderthread?

i thought we moved that to a different thread

[sage crag]

its my triangle

i wrote

[olive sable]

[sage crag]

131 line of triangle

[olive sable]

naht hat cant be real

where is the rest of the engine?

[sage crag]

not need engine

[olive sable]

vulkan needs at least 1K lines

[sage crag]

have triangle

by the way

your triangle have bug

[olive sable]

[sage crag]

user@nixos ~/c/vrrr> ./result
Gtk-Message: 20:49:16.885: Failed to load module "colorreload-gtk-module"
AMD Ryzen 5 7600 6-Core Processor (RADV RAPHAEL_MENDOCINO)
FPS: 42241
FPS: 43228
FPS: 43883
FPS: 43324

real fps number should be closer to 43k for me

discover

sam synchronisation is incorrect

while (1) {
  vkQueueSubmit(queue, 1, &(VkSubmitInfo){ .sType = VK_STRUCTURE_TYPE_SUBMIT_INFO, .commandBufferCount = 1, .pCommandBuffers = &cb }, 0);
  vkQueuePresentKHR(queue, &(VkPresentInfoKHR){ .sType = VK_STRUCTURE_TYPE_PRESENT_INFO_KHR, .swapchainCount = 1, .pSwapchains = &swc, .pImageIndices = &(uint32_t){0} });
  vkQueueWaitIdle(queue);

  double currentTime = glfwGetTime();
  frameCount++;

  if (currentTime - lastTime >= 1.0) {
    printf("FPS: %d\n", frameCount);
    frameCount = 0;
    lastTime = currentTime;
  }
}

see here, if i comment out vkQueueWaitIdle(queue); it go to 106-108k fps

[quiet linden]

vulkan 🥀

[sage crag]

if i have it uncommented, i remain at 43k

because waiting for frame to be rendered

rather than just spamming frames

[olive sable]

we're not waiting for the frame to be rendered tho

[sage crag]

then what point of benchmark

me wait for frame to render

[olive sable]

wait

[rigid snow]

triangle 2

[olive sable]

vkQueueWaitIdle wait until eevrythiogn is done, what we're doing is keeping the queue full so it always has work

[sage crag]

ye obviously not work for sam, just use gpu semaphore instead

[olive sable]

ok so

hmmm

[sage crag]

// triangle.frag
#version 450 core

layout(location = 0) out vec4 outColor;
void main() { outColor = vec4(1.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0); }

// triangle.vert
#version 450 core

const vec4 positions[3] = vec4[3](
  vec4( 0.0, -0.5, 0.0, 1.0),
  vec4( 0.5,  0.5, 0.0, 1.0),
  vec4(-0.5,  0.5, 0.0, 1.0)
);

void main() { gl_Position = positions[gl_VertexIndex]; }

triangle shader

[olive sable]

ok so

because we're using frames in flight

[sage crag]

not me

just 1 frame

[olive sable]

we are

just listen

once the queue gets full

vkQueueSubmit starts blocking

so we should be good

depends on drivers tho since this is technically undefined by vulkan and left to the drivers to solve

it might aswell jsut be deleting drawcalls that dont fit in the queue for all we know

it is true that the fps number largely just shows cpu throughput tho

i think the assumption was that with 1 triangle we shouldn't be gpu bound anyways, and i still believe that is largely true.
when we made that decision we were still at 13K fps

[full dirge]

[tender river]

poor summaries

have to deal with

sam tpyo

[olive sable]

Eevrythiogn?

i never typed that until just now

how did i manage to tpye the typo

[olive sable]

i give up

[olive sable]

i did type that

[amber fractal]

[olive sable]

fuck

i gotta get som typing lessons for 2026

[trim valve]

just som?

[amber fractal]

ye

[olive sable]

https://tenor.com/view/hildibrand-major-spelling-mistake-gif-2240394661591495422

[olive sable]

[amber fractal]

Sam trpongle (why did I use brainpower to merge triangle and typo?)

[sage crag]

by the way

fps with glfw3 is higher than sdl3

for whenever you do your next rewrite

[olive sable]

i was using sdl cuz of it being webgl capable

but for vulkan i might switch to glfw then

[olive sable]

actually send the file, i want to see

[sage crag]

ok

dont laugh though

here's the default.nix to build it with

{ pkgs ? import <nixpkgs> {} }: pkgs.gccStdenv.mkDerivation rec {
  pname = "vrrr";
  version = "0.1.0";
  src = ./.;

  nativeBuildInputs = with pkgs; [ shaderc ];
  buildInputs = with pkgs; [ vulkan-loader vulkan-headers glfw ];

  buildPhase = ''
    glslc -O $args triangle.vert -o vert.spv
    glslc -O $args triangle.frag -o frag.spv
  
    cc triangle.c \
      -Ofast -march=native -mtune=native \
      -lglfw -lvulkan -fuse-ld=gold \
      -flto -fomit-frame-pointer -s -fno-plt \
      -o $out
  '';

  env.NIX_ENFORCE_NO_NATIVE = 0;
}

you have the shaders already

[tender river]

without lsp

[sage crag]

ye

lsp not needed

just read doc

and suffer

evilDentge

[tender river]

https://media.discordapp.net/stickers/1428762275422011502.png?size=160&name=EvilEGGS!

[sage crag]

EvilEGGS!

https://tenor.com/view/borzoi-snoopa-lord-foog-dog-funny-gif-20125052

ok me done programming for

year

programming quota filled

[tender river]

[olive sable]

i might look at this wednesday afternoon

im too mentally drained to do vulkan rn

[sage crag]

not just any vulkan

vulkan written by yours truly with no lsp or code formatter

AtorinHappy

[olive sable]

sur

im mostly wondering what corners you cut to get it that small

[sage crag]

all

[olive sable]

well yes, but that isn't very descriptive you see

[sage crag]

VkPhysicalDevice pdev;
vkEnumeratePhysicalDevices(inst, &(uint32_t){1}, &pdev);

VkPhysicalDeviceProperties props;
vkGetPhysicalDeviceProperties(pdev, &props);
printf("%s\n", props.deviceName);

float prio = 1.0f;
VkDevice dev;
vkCreateDevice(pdev, &(VkDeviceCreateInfo){
  .sType = VK_STRUCTURE_TYPE_DEVICE_CREATE_INFO, .queueCreateInfoCount = 1,
  .pQueueCreateInfos = &(VkDeviceQueueCreateInfo){ .sType = VK_STRUCTURE_TYPE_DEVICE_QUEUE_CREATE_INFO, .queueCount = 1, .pQueuePriorities = &prio },
  .enabledExtensionCount = 1, .ppEnabledExtensionNames = (const char*[]){ "VK_KHR_swapchain" }
}, NULL, &dev);

VkQueue queue;
vkGetDeviceQueue(dev, 0, 0, &queue);

more descriptive

[olive sable]

jsut seeing that gives me a headache

[tender river]

https://media.discordapp.net/stickers/1304208163632971847.png?size=160&name=AtorinSmol

[sage crag]

want more?

[olive sable]

is that what you removed or?

[sage crag]

no.

that's

the device code

for physical and vulkan device

[olive sable]

okay

[sage crag]

VkSwapchainKHR swc;
vkCreateSwapchainKHR(dev, &(VkSwapchainCreateInfoKHR){
  .sType = VK_STRUCTURE_TYPE_SWAPCHAIN_CREATE_INFO_KHR, .surface = surf,
  .surface = surf, .minImageCount = 1, .imageFormat = VK_FORMAT_B8G8R8A8_UNORM,
  .imageColorSpace = VK_COLOR_SPACE_SRGB_NONLINEAR_KHR, .imageExtent = { WIDTH, HEIGHT },
  .imageArrayLayers = 1, .imageUsage = VK_IMAGE_USAGE_COLOR_ATTACHMENT_BIT,
  .imageSharingMode = VK_SHARING_MODE_EXCLUSIVE, .preTransform = VK_SURFACE_TRANSFORM_IDENTITY_BIT_KHR, .compositeAlpha = VK_COMPOSITE_ALPHA_OPAQUE_BIT_KHR,
  .presentMode = VK_PRESENT_MODE_SHARED_CONTINUOUS_REFRESH_KHR, .clipped = VK_TRUE
}, NULL, &swc);

VkImage img;
vkGetSwapchainImagesKHR(dev, swc, &(uint32_t){1}, &img);

here's the

swapchain

vulkan is so verbose

explod

[olive sable]

https://tenor.com/view/flcl-anime-mamimi-samejima-aaa-gif-701358813539414533

ye theres absolutely no way im comprehending nay of this rn

im washed up konii

[tender river]

oh yea konii write

one liner

[sage crag]

konii write

[tender river]

no wonder low line count

[sage crag]

despair

[tender river]

https://media.discordapp.net/stickers/1432142118624825556.png?size=160&name=StareAtYouNeuro

[sage crag]

i tried but i couldnt stand the line length

when this was all one line

[olive sable]

ping me again wendesday afternoon for this and i might have some semblance of what is happening

[tender river]

    .pColorBlendState = &(VkPipelineColorBlendStateCreateInfo){ .sType = VK_STRUCTURE_TYPE_PIPELINE_COLOR_BLEND_STATE_CREATE_INFO, .attachmentCount = 1, .pAttachments = &(VkPipelineColorBlendAttachmentState){ .colorWriteMask = 0xF } },

:mlntcandy:

[sage crag]

it not thaaaat long

[olive sable]

oh god

im out

[sage crag]

i just notice it wordwrapping

mlntcandy

[sage crag]

#define GLFW_INCLUDE_VULKAN
#include <GLFW/glfw3.h>
#include <stdio.h>

const uint8_t vert_spv[] = {
  #embed "vert.spv"
};
const uint8_t frag_spv[] = {
  #embed "frag.spv"
};

#define WIDTH 300
#define HEIGHT 200

void main() {
  glfwInit();
  glfwWindowHint(GLFW_CLIENT_API, GLFW_NO_API);
  GLFWwindow* w = glfwCreateWindow(WIDTH, HEIGHT, "vk", NULL, NULL);

  uint32_t ext_count;
  const char** ext = glfwGetRequiredInstanceExtensions(&ext_count);
  VkInstance inst;
  vkCreateInstance(&(VkInstanceCreateInfo){
    .sType = VK_STRUCTURE_TYPE_INSTANCE_CREATE_INFO,
    .enabledExtensionCount = ext_count, .ppEnabledExtensionNames = ext,
  }, NULL, &inst);
  
  VkSurfaceKHR surf;
  glfwCreateWindowSurface(inst, w, NULL, &surf);
  ...

no no come back

look how easy simple vulkan is

[olive sable]

konii i cant rn

my braincells are on vaction

[sage crag]

the beginning of the file is misleading

[olive sable]

im a broken washed up man breaking down over his blender file

[sage crag]

christmas tree

[tender river]

konii you should

disable syntax highlighting next

and switch to

line editor

[sage crag]

AtorinWow

[olive sable]

my status as the vulkan guy has been revoked

[sage crag]

[olive sable]

now im just that one triangle

[sage crag]

trangl

there's something wrong with summary in this channel

it have brain damage

[tender river]

[olive sable]

no

me have brain damage

[sage crag]

where brain

[olive sable]

puding

[tender river]

it learning

elvspeak

[sage crag]

[sage crag]

MiyagiCat

wrr

[tender river]

https://tenor.com/view/microwave-gif-18041779

[sage crag]

evil AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

microwavii

[olive sable]

microwave

[sage crag]

do not spin microwave

[olive sable]

you cant stop me

[sage crag]

[olive sable]

i feel like i need a nap or something

but im not tired, my brain jsut hurts

[olive stag]

Question about memory and data types.

As a C# dev, I don't really give too much thought to how much memory my apps use, so I'll use ints and doubles everywhere. Then this makes me think of how many modern apps are RAM hogs and I wonder if this is all a death-by-thousand-cuts thing

Does it actually matter these days in a memory managed language? I could reduce my footprint a bit, but I may only be saving pennies-worth if I'm building off of other libraries or frameworks or webviews

[potent geyser]

Use pool

It depends on your data structure. but if you have an estimation on memory consumption then you can work around that.

For instance, if you are saving 1 million double but you can store them in int. Then you just reduced your memory consumption by half.

But, it always depends on much data are you working with. If you are dealing with 100 double. Well, you probably don't have to worry about anything

And if you are using object to store intermediate data, then you probably should use pool to reuse object. You will save on GC and increase on performance.

[olive stag]

Do you have any articles or links where I can learn more about this? The extent of my knowledge of pooling is seeing a tourism poster

[potent geyser]

Let me double check, since I primarily use Java

https://zeeshan01.medium.com/enhancing-performance-and-scalability-with-object-pooling-in-c-468a02013010

This one looks decent

[olive stag]

Actually, now that I think about it, I've already used that concept without realizing it...

Virtual UI lists that only load visible-on-screen items (+ buffer) are a pool of UI objects

[olive stag]

Thank you, I'll go read this

[quick condor]

Im throwing an entire DB into ram abd can be stupid lazy about ram usage

[potent geyser]

It always depends on your application and input data and performance requirement.

[opaque sigil]

small data -> more fits into cache -> higher performance

ymmv

Mind you that won't save you from bad memory access patterns

[olive stag]

Related to that, I've recently watched videos on struct-of-arrays vs array-of-structs, and it all sounds good, but it's always through the lens of lower level languages, so makes me wonder if I should care as much in a managed language

Though I guess like you said, if there's less data to process, better chance of cache hits (probably no matter the language)

[olive stag]

Got any examples handy?

[potent geyser]

If you can't come up with a good data structure, then use dictionary/hashmap!

Think about big O

[maiden geyser]

Ö

[opaque sigil]

Nothing specifically but random = bad (this includes hash tables)

[olive stag]

Is that where RAM gets its name? Keep the relevant "deterministic" stuff in cache, let RAM be the larger free-for-all?

[olive stag]

Been a long time since I've looked into it, isn't it only for time complexity?

[potent geyser]

time complexity = performance

[opaque sigil]

When you're google

[obsidian mantle]

there is memory complexity and performance complexity right?

or how are they called correctly

[opaque sigil]

Time and space yes

[obsidian mantle]

oh right space

[potent geyser]

oh right that too

[olive stag]

I should go back and refresh on big O tbh, been too long

[potent geyser]

O(1) , <=O(n) and else!

[fading blaze]

I have questions and nobody in #general-network is answering me so I will ask here despite not being super related

So does Ellie often do electronics build streams or is it just for special occasions like the Neuro dog and Neuro car

[olive stag]

I think she does tech streams not very often

[obsidian mantle]

she streamed building it?

[olive stag]

There was a whole thing where she never revealed she was an engineer until the vedal raid IIRC

[fading blaze]

Really

[amber fractal]

it was streamed yeah

at least some parts of it IIRC

[amber fractal]

At the moment, not much as over 60+ hour work weeks drain a bit of energy

[cosmic sphinx]

https://x.com/i/status/2008283100254494916

this is a match made in heaven

year of robotics

Google DeepMind (@GoogleDeepMind)

Google DeepMind 🤝 @BostonDynamics

Our new research partnership will bring together our advancements in Gemini Robotics’s foundational capabilities to their new Atlas® humanoids. 🦾

Find out more → https://t.co/Z4fL9ixjW3

X · Jan 5, 2026, 9:02 PM

[potent geyser]

60+ hour? that's crazy

[fading blaze]

Makes sense

[amber fractal]

Only stream she does is the balding streams

[olive stag]

I really admire her streaming as a hobby, I work less than 40hr/week programming and feel like I can't even do laundry without great effort once I'm home

[faint sandal]

[olive sable]

I dont work and i cant do laundry

[obsidian mantle]

is ellie employed in japan

[olive sable]

No, usa iirc

[obsidian mantle]

60h its like 12h workdays

oh unless its 7/7 weekdays

[olive sable]

Maybe in weekends too?

[amber fractal]

might be 12h

I'm forgetting exacts

[cosmic sphinx]

@sick owl dont let subathon distract us from the fact that the holidays are over

[sick owl]

oooo

Gemma 4?

That'd be nice

[amber fractal]

last balding streams revealed that she had another offer for more cash, so I pray it works out

[obsidian mantle]

what is a "balding stream"?

[cosmic sphinx]

3.0 flash lite perhaps

[amber fractal]

Chill group stream with a few other faces. Mini, Shoomni, and Chuchie (forgive my misspellings)

[faint sandal]

[amber fractal]

the last few times when cerber raided they joked about shaving the dawg

one day

[amber fractal]

I make it a point to watch those streams personally, sometimes it gets clipped from staz for neuro stuff but it is just fun.

[sharp swan]

Neuro-robot

[amber fractal]

I'd take a flat 3d print over the circle screen sure

[potent geyser]

nvm

[prime ridge]

spotted

[amber fractal]

[random igloo]

Does anyone have experience running vLLM server on WSL?

[sick owl]

Does this mean us regular devs aint getting access to the Gemini VLA any time soon though

[random igloo]

I'm running vllm serve [my_model] on WSL. Engine initializes correctly.
I can see VLLM::EngineCore process in top and the model is taking the right amount of VRAM
But when I curl, it always fails. I'm suspecting the server isn't alive

so far nothing I found online solves this

[pseudo lynx]

iirc WSL using a separate virtual network adapter

maybe it's some weird firewall?

[random igloo]

that makes sense

[pseudo lynx]

i've never had issues with ollama over wsl

[random igloo]

must be some weird WSL setting

[pseudo lynx]

yeah, just tried ollama, it let hit the WSL endpoint without any issues from a non-WSL terminal

[hearty notch]

weasel

[pseudo lynx]

in WSL settings, check if you have enabled localhost forwarding enabled

[obsidian mantle]

When i have problems with things connecting to things i try disabling all firewalls

Only when everything is local or course but i wonder what would i risk if you do that while connected to the internet

what can happen?

surely there is no terminal access server running in my computer? I didnt launch anything like that

[pseudo lynx]

as an aside, anyone had to reset their twitch 2fa? I tried to reauth a device and 2fa code kept failing and I had to use the sms backup option

[obsidian mantle]

Genuinely interested, don't you need some things running with open ports for these ports to work?

A port must lead somewhere

And if there is nothing its useless

[pseudo lynx]

i saw some weird stuff happening with payout info being updated without creators knowledge so I'm wondering if their auth got compromised somehow, or a an app/connection was

[azure lynx]

could be for downloading models or for listening for the API it exposes if it's meant for something else to connect to

shouldn't disable all firewalls, should just add permission to the app which requires it

[random igloo]

i think my api server just never started

usually there should be a line of log from uvicorn

[quick condor]

Yes if its wsl2, You need to set it to a static IP and create a port forwarding map to windows

Something like this:
netsh interface portproxy add v4tov4 listenport=xxxx listenaddress=0.0.0.0 connectport=xxxx connectaddress=$wslIp

[tough dove]

Is there a tool to create a 30-second AI video without combining multiple videos?

[hard delta]

yaawwn

gm prog

[sick owl]

I just realised they gave atlas wide hips and totally different limb joints now

In general the new model looks a bit cheaper, safer, sturdier and more suited for mass production

At the cost of losing style points

Like the left side head looks better but the one on the right is definitely gonna be more durable and practical for real world use

Ah yeah as I suspected, its a more production ready model optimised for cost and simplicity/durability

Oh like actually, its for sale wtf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sd8ivhpjI6g

[true hemlock]

huh the right one seem less durable imo

though right one seem more dynamic

but i feel like in terms of tension stress its worse mechanically

though depending on implementation it does seem cheaper.

though the hand on the right one do seem better designed

[noble python]

Excuse me, but the Chinese humanoid robots are on a completely different level... especially when it comes to customization.
Extremely ugly, those robots up there.

[azure lynx]

"we've got humanoid robots at home"

[sage crag]

wrrr

[fast torrent]

wrrr

[hard raptor]

plays fart-echo sound through built-in speaker

[faint sandal]

?

[amber fractal]

don't get me wrong, it would be funny. But there are so many better things to use

I propose dark souls music

of course only activated once it notices you

if it doesn't twist it's neck 180 degrees to look at you while playing dark souls boss music, is there even a point to the tech?

[sage crag]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1421861060507602944/1425936142754123927/neuroCatModeOfOfnnfOOf.webp

ye

it can say

wrrrr

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1421861060507602944/1425936142754123927/neuroCatModeOfOfnnfOOf.webp

[midnight sigil]

https://tenor.com/view/robot-self-kick-kick-balls-pain-gif-16169515686555864544

[azure lynx]

it's like a level in a puzzle game with time travel.

[stray dragon]

the one on the left looks like a well designed body with simple hands added on as an afterthought
the one on the right looks like well designed hands with a simple body added on as an afterthought

[tender river]

[sage crag]

[olive sable]

Goodmorning

[sage crag]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1421861060507602944/1425936142754123927/neuroCatModeOfOfnnfOOf.webp

[olive sable]

Welp

Back to the blender grind

[sage crag]

im back to vulkan

managed to get up to 66k fps

[silent cloak]

Based

[tender river]

emi

ert

[sage crag]

ert

[olive sable]

we can make next gen triangle have semaphores and fences if you want

its more upto spec

but it is a lot slower

[sage crag]

i discovered

vk 1.2 ext

timeline semaphore

by testing it was quite a bit faster

[olive sable]

idk how i should feel about being able to push konii of all people to learn vulkan

[sage crag]

https://tenor.com/view/my-jolly-reaction-jolly-my-honest-reaction-gif-5490890317762380451

me learn vulkan of my own accord

thank you

[olive sable]

the trianlge is the only reason you're doing this

admit it

[silent cloak]

Been playing alot with Vulkan but I might also try WebGPU at some point given they are both really popular atm

[rough bloom]

they're also very similar

WebGPU just very constrained and old Vulkan

[silent cloak]

Its also more widely supported

[rough bloom]

you mean Metal?

[silent cloak]

I mean it is essentially a cross platform metal

Given apples original proposal

[rough bloom]

Vulkan has MoltenVK too

hardware support should be basically identical for Vulkan and WebGPU

[silent cloak]

Still willing to give it a look as I heard there is less boiler

[rough bloom]

ye there's a little bit less IIRC

[silent cloak]

I feel like both are good contenders for replacing the current standards

[rough bloom]

definitely

though arguably both are already starting to be outdated for modern GPUs

at least the Web will finally have compute shaders once WebGPU is available everywhere

[silent cloak]

Once NVIDIA implements their new production decrease we won't have to worry too much about that for a while

JK

[rough bloom]

NVIDIA reviving the 3060

[silent cloak]

It never died it just got repurposed for at home computing

[unreal spruce]

Hello

A, damn wrong channel

[rough bloom]

RGB gaming DIMMs, famously always deployed inside fully opaque servers

badly made meme

[silent cloak]

It makes it faster

Just like a gaming chair improves ur aim

[rough bloom]

ye but they don't know that

so they use the boring ones with the PCB exposed

[silent cloak]

Thats why they keep buying more ram not knowing the RGB lights would speed up their current

[rough bloom]

[silent cloak]

They need to use that one meme site from a decade ago

Downloadfreeram

[rough bloom]

they're trying

networked RAM is a thing, apparently

[sage crag]

wrr

[rough bloom]

wrrr

[stray dragon]

wrrrr

[sage crag]

@olive sable

[ivory plinth]

wrrr

[sage crag]

ye wrrr

[ivory plinth]

[sage crag]

emug

[silent cloak]

Gets rid of the speed in RAM

[olive sable]

[ivory plinth]

[sage crag]

70k fps

[silent cloak]

Sounds like using swap on a NAS

🤢

[olive sable]

[rough bloom]

surprisingly the latency is not that bad
something like 10x worse than DDR5 IIRC? not horrible

[silent cloak]

Whats the benefit even

Beyond the shortage

[rough bloom]

tons of shared memory

[silent cloak]

Real cloud computing then

[rough bloom]

can just access the same memory -> no need to directly synchronize between hosts

[silent cloak]

Sounds good in theory

[tender river]

become banana 🍌

[ivory plinth]

insufficent color in pfp

[tender river]

me not have banana in pfp

anyone can become banana

[ivory plinth]

you have color almost same as banana in pfp

[rough bloom]

pfp can become banana too
but ye not necessary

[tender river]

t

only have black and white

and

christmas hat

[ivory plinth]

[stray dragon]

hi ylhfecaa

[ivory plinth]

i shall 🍌

[silent cloak]

I wish we could 3D print memory chips at home

[ivory plinth]

banananana

oh wait

oh noes

[tender river]

[ivory plinth]

ive cursed myself to white

[tender river]

maybe try switching to white and back?

[silent cloak]

Fits the pfp

Better than mine atleast

[ivory plinth]

banana in spirit

[tender river]

@cobalt vessel this chatter have

two color

edit: ohisee #programming message

[ivory plinth]

[olive sable]

[silent cloak]

Conductor we have a problem

[ivory plinth]

https://tenor.com/view/jersey-boys-zoo-race-cannon-leave-leaving-gif-26483269

[tender river]

mto frend

[rough bloom]

you probably can with the right printer
will maybe even store an entire bit

[silent cloak]

Lmao

[ivory plinth]

no me want 2 color

[silent cloak]

Fully mechanical ram

[olive sable]

ground control to major mito
we have a two coloured

[ivory plinth]

[tender river]

[silent cloak]

Id of kept it

Its like a rare pokemon

[rough bloom]

mto make white-banana gradient

[ivory plinth]

[silent cloak]

My steam is bugged but ive kept it forever

[ivory plinth]

mto away

[sage crag]

user@nixos ~/c/vrrr> wc -l triangle.c
244 triangle.c

bwaa

no longer horizontal monster

MiyagiCroco

also i added frames in flight

[tender river]

[sage crag]

banana

#define FRAMES_IN_FLIGHT 3

#if FRAMES_IN_FLIGHT == 1
#error "broked"
#endif

evilDentge

[tender river]

static_assert

and constexpr

or consteval

[sage crag]

https://tenor.com/view/bunny-rabbit-pats-pet-bunny-pats-gif-19861222

[tender river]

unless c

[sage crag]

c

it c

[tender river]

then static_assert ye

[sage crag]

ne

you think too hard

[tender river]

it

less line

[sage crag]

think too hard

preprocessor dumb

[rigid snow]

hell

o

[sage crag]

ElvynSerius

banan

o

[tender river]

hell to you too

o

[rigid snow]

[sage crag]

so me fault with alignas

alignas(uint32_t) const uint8_t vertCode[] = {
  #embed "vert.spv"
};
alignas(uint32_t) const uint8_t fragCode[] = {
  #embed "frag.spv"
};

it was supposed to be type

gcc just let me do integer

because gcc

https://tenor.com/view/ehe-anime-gif-anime-girl-teehee-gif-27178660

[tender river]

can use number in c++

probably c limitation

[sage crag]

my triangle requires

vk1.3

[tender river]

wrrrr

integer suppoed to

work

[sage crag]

OhISeeto

maybe not using c23

and gcc backport

[tender river]

ye but

_Alignas

also support expression

[sage crag]

gcc make

bigger binary

but higher fps

this opposite to normal

[tender river]

me not think when program

think too much effort

[sage crag]

https://tenor.com/view/borzoi-snoopa-lord-foog-dog-funny-gif-20125052

[rigid snow]

babna nadog

[sage crag]

fetching path input 'path:/nix/store/as8ksm9hafq3x3cvml95i5s092903kvk-source'
this derivation will be built:
  /nix/store/4drhrzak7301izsgi6yjqjzzhl69bmf7-vrrr-0.1.0.drv
building '/nix/store/4drhrzak7301izsgi6yjqjzzhl69bmf7-vrrr-0.1.0.drv'...
Running phase: unpackPhase
unpacking source archive /nix/store/7svs6vgb1mk87dz3biclfnlzbq9yrbpq-vrrr
source root is vrrr
Running phase: patchPhase
Running phase: updateAutotoolsGnuConfigScriptsPhase
Running phase: configurePhase
no configure script, doing nothing
Running phase: buildPhase
Running phase: installPhase
no Makefile or custom installPhase, doing nothing
Running phase: fixupPhase
shrinking RPATHs of ELF executables and libraries in /nix/store/m97ap218gn2xpc4m9spa8fs8k6rz3m68-vrrr-0.1.0
shrinking /nix/store/m97ap218gn2xpc4m9spa8fs8k6rz3m68-vrrr-0.1.0
patchelf: getting info about '/nix/store/m97ap218gn2xpc4m9spa8fs8k6rz3m68-vrrr-0.1.0/lib/libglfw.so.3': Not a directory
checking for references to /build/ in /nix/store/m97ap218gn2xpc4m9spa8fs8k6rz3m68-vrrr-0.1.0...
patching script interpreter paths in /nix/store/m97ap218gn2xpc4m9spa8fs8k6rz3m68-vrrr-0.1.0
/nix/store/m97ap218gn2xpc4m9spa8fs8k6rz3m68-vrrr-0.1.0

source root is vrrr

[tender river]

neuro not noted

[sage crag]

neuroNotNoted

72302
70253
69890
70545
71034
71136

frog nog

i thought removing that synchronisation would put me up to 100k fps

only up to 72k

i guess there's something else blocking

[silent cloak]

Are u using dynamic rendering

[sage crag]

probably vkAcquireNextImageKHR

[silent cloak]

Or render passes still

[sage crag]

render passes

[silent cloak]

Give dynamic rendering a try at some point

Its the new standard and it's less of a pain

[sage crag]

is it faster

minyanstare

[silent cloak]

Yes

The only thing holding it back for a while was mobile support but its far better now

[sage crag]

FOCUS~1

i'll go and read the docs now

[silent cloak]

U dont need render passes or frame buffer objects anymore

[tender river]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1450560641411715165.webp?size=48&name=MiyagiCroco

[sage crag]

EvilEGGS!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi_ucKjCOvM

[tender river]

wagtail

[sage crag]

ye

[stray dragon]

wtf the alarm application on windows just started working again for no reason???

[rough bloom]

Windows has an alarm application?

[stray dragon]

yes

i only use it because they killed the calendar

[faint sandal]

ye

[stray dragon]

this shit stops working and removes itself from the taskbar one day for no reason so i thought it was gone

[faint sandal]

idk who uses the alarm app

[stray dragon]

and now, a week or two later, i get a notification from it again

i am on 2 days of uptime right now and that is a daily alarm that went off

WHAT CHANGED

windows is so weird about things like this

[olive sable]

the alarm went on a christmas holiday

[stray dragon]

i am so confused

[stray dragon]

ain't no way

right

[faint sandal]

"I need to wake up at 7am today I better setup my alarm on my Windows 11™️ Alarm app whilst keeping my computer up and running all night and hope that Windows Update doesn't restart the computer and automatically stop the alarm from working because I'm not logged in"

[stray dragon]

wait

IT GOT RENAMED TO CLOCK?????????????????????????????????????

dude

[stray dragon]

if i want to get a reminder for something while i'm at my computer it's convenient

[rough bloom]

I just opened the Clock app for the first time
it had to update

[stray dragon]

why did it need an update

it's the same damn pp

they just

renamed it

what

[hard delta]

egg yellow
banana

[stray dragon]

more convenient than getting up and suffocating the life out of one of the buttons on the alarm clock to get it to go from 6am to 7pm or whatever

[faint sandal]

idk phone's always worked better for me

you know what I need

[stray dragon]

i think i have used the phone's alarm function like

once

ever

[tender river]

how

[faint sandal]

a traditional AA battery powered clock that doesn't connect to the internet and just rings the bell super loudly

[tender river]

do you have a physical one

[stray dragon]

i've had a physical alarm clock for the last 15 years or so, yes

[faint sandal]

based

[stray dragon]

it's got automatic daylight savings rollovers somehow this thing has been great

[hard delta]

t if one day everything will be heavily optimized for avx-512 and it will be a sluggish hell without it, know that it will have been you who set the chain reaction in motion for my demise

[faint sandal]

sturdy and doesn't care about updates

[hard delta]

the devil can control this with its power
they fear win11 tho

[faint sandal]

and I can fix it

[stray dragon]

i will sleep in peace knowing i have brought a terrible fate to yet another person

[hard delta]

[stray dragon]

i still can't believe they took down alarms for 2 weeks just to rename it to clock

what the fuck are they doing over there

[olive sable]

clocks apparently

[hard delta]

they are explaining to their manager how they're agilely transforming the business through disruptive copilot technique integration into their mindset workflow

like 6 hours a day

[silent cloak]

lmao

[faint sandal]

clocks

[hard delta]

⏲️

[maiden geyser]

smashing this one with a comically large hammer must feel otherworldly

[hard delta]

compyutah ordered

[signal edge]

my condolences

[olive sable]

in this market?

[hard delta]

before the market gets even worse

or we get invaded by big bear country

probably both

[signal edge]

buy high sell low

mantra to live by

[hard delta]

it's pre built
i built it on a build site separately, was 35% more expensive on the build site

so it's like a neutral deal

[signal edge]

yeah only decent deals i've seen atm are all prebuilts kek

cuz they ordered the ram before the high probs

[hard delta]

🙂‍↕️

new emote lmao

[signal edge]

i was looking yesterday actually at the ram i've got in my pc

tripled in value since i bought it in 2024

unironically great investment

[hard delta]

ikr

and it may or may not normalize

[quick condor]

I picked up a vfd based nixie style clock thats great. Reminds me of vha clocks but way larger and brighter

[hard delta]

if it doesn't normalize i'll be like haha all you peasants waited for too long

and if it does normalize i'll be like yay i can buy another kit

[tender river]

lava comfy

[sage crag]

https://tenor.com/view/my-jolly-reaction-jolly-my-honest-reaction-gif-5490890317762380451

triangle crashed my pc again

https://tenor.com/view/my-jolly-reaction-jolly-my-honest-reaction-gif-5490890317762380451

[olive sable]

[sage crag]

me switch to dynamic rendering

same performance

code longer

[quick condor]

I really dont think neuro and evil have think instruction sets and it makes buckshot a slog

[olive sable]

i think its supposed to have less cpu overhead for complex stuff

[sage crag]

cpu saturate anyway

[olive sable]

renderpass is more efficient for tile-based mobile rendering

which is why i initialy stuck with it

im sure there is a specific combination that is faster than we have it rn, but it would get to a point of being very platform specific

[sick owl]

Chinese bots look prettier/appear more impressive but are on the whole less practical than what Boston Dynamics and Figure are doing

Generally speaking anyway

Unitree are really cool though

[olive sable]

oh iirc its faster when recording the command buffer, but we dont re-record the command buffer at all since triangle

so for this it doesnt have any effect ye

[sick owl]

Mainly for bringing costs down ridiculously low

[olive sable]

VK_KHR_dynamic_rendering_local_read fixes this issue supposedly

[sick owl]

But most are impractical for production, whereas the Boston Dynamics bots are being deployed en masse into Hyundai factories and Figure bots already proved their worth in BMW fabs

[visual pawn]

I guess I haven't been keeping up, I didn't know BD managed to land a big contract like that

oh it was literally yesterday

[sick owl]

Yeah the cheaper non prototype Atlas is moving into mass production

[visual pawn]

so they're finally commercializing a humanoid model

[sick owl]

Yup, though the full supply for next year is exclusively contracted for Hyundai and Deepmind

[visual pawn]

https://gizmodo.com/hyundai-and-boston-dynamics-may-have-just-stolen-the-robot-factory-narrative-away-from-tesla-2000705841

was Tesla actually a serious contender?

oh, right, hyundai owns boston dynamics

so it's not quite landing a major contract "organically"

[lime stag]

china tech is actually very ahead

[lime stag]

partly because their tech industries really geared toward thing for consumer

which is good because research fund is used for thing that improve their life

[mossy fossil]

Ah, the Infamous 3rd Generation of the Intel GMA Series (GMA 900/950/3100/3150). "DirectX 9" Support (Read: Partial, Realistically the most you're getting is DirectX 8.1), OpenGL 2.1 Support (Read: Only on linux, and at the point that i'm writing this, its "support" so deteriorated that you might as well use llvmpipe instead - Realistically Speaking, you're Getting GL 1.4... if you want to use Hardware Acceleration.)

That said, However... if you're doing it just for the sake of a retro gaming PC? most DX 8.1 games should run okay on it. it should be usable enough for a Early Windows XP Gaming Rig. The VGA Output of these iGPUs is reportedly pretty clean. Throw it to a VGA 5:4/4:3 CRT/LCD Display and it should look pretty good.

though games after 2005 on those iGPUs are very much a "Graphics Decelerator"

more rambles about random pieces of technology whenever i feel like doing them

i actually did try running minecraft on that hardware. on Linux - i could actually get hardware acceleration up to 1.14.4 on those iGPUs. 1.15 refused to boot, however.

i forgot the uppermost limit on windows, soz

[nocturne olive]

I'm convinved my PC is haunted, I started trying to look at logs and then I get 2 back to back crashes during it

With like less than an hour between the crashes

[lime stag]

Wasn't it already haunted months ago

Ask for tech priest

[nocturne olive]

Well now it's extra haunted

[lime stag]

Ghost demand ram

[nocturne olive]

And obviously the logs don't actually have anything useful

[obsidian mantle]

what did he mean by "she can change herself"

[sage crag]

@olive sable

the 76 line monstrosity

im done

never touching vulkan again

bye

i completed vulkan

oh sorry it actually wordwrapped

did you notice

[opaque sigil]

vulkan 2 when

[sage crag]

vulkan should never update again

vulkan 2 should be

"delete vulkan"

[obsidian mantle]

[sage crag]

yes

my monitor is 1080p

not enough resolution for 0.05% font

[noble python]

Well, I rebuilt myself a little PC with the parts I had left after my burglary on December 23rd. The worst part is the GPU and all my lost work... 3 months of work down the drain... sniff

[sage crag]

anyway

76 lines, 95k fps

i broke synchronisation a little bit but

it doesnt matter

i get 105k fps when i remove sync entirely though

thats with 3 frames in flight though, at 300x200

[noble python]

At worst, you add a resynchronization loop every X seconds

[sage crag]

im only using 1 semaphore to track the frames in flight

[olive sable]

[sage crag]

i should be using at least two

but

cost lines

and fps

[olive sable]

i never even looked at the code, i have exams and dont really have the energy for vulkan

[sage crag]

39727 fps with llvmpipe

at 300x200

at 7x6, its 61941 fps

i have to clean up this code to make it presentable to send

but

later

[rancid cedar]

I saw a funny post on Threads

Related to ASI

But I think the original poster is likely out of their mind

[finite escarp]

So did Vedal killed Neuro and replaced her core with fake one paid commercial ai?Or he just asked about personality because of something else that's deeply concerns me. Guestion to you guys maybe you know some insider info?

[rigid snow]

it's later already

[olive sable]

that is how time works

[silent cloak]

man i need to refresh myself on DSA

been doing game dev for so many years now that ive lost some of the deeper comprehensions i used to have for areas such as ML and some other lower level things

[rancid cedar]

https://www.threads.com/@ryanx0621/post/DS-ML4jEg-T

[rancid cedar]

WHAT THE HELL WHAT THIS IS?!

[nocturne olive]

Looks like a Python program

But Chinese

[rancid cedar]

I think I've found that post

[rancid cedar]

It's just AI nonsense and people with severe delusions

[nocturne olive]

Weirdness

[rancid cedar]

https://www.threads.com/@ryanx0621/post/DTKpd1Kkhei

[glass flower]

reminds me of the github repo of the "universe simulator" like 50 random files of python files generated by chatgpt that "simulate the universe 1:1"

[azure lynx]

"quantum error correction" points to it being silliness.

[rancid cedar]

LoL

[hard raptor]

It's says to dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/sda bs=4M

[rigid snow]

ye youshould

[rough bloom]

didn't work

[trim valve]

soldering hard

wrr

[amber fractal]

For once, there is a staz clip that released on this. Confirming that isn't the case but also beginning a new wave of misinfomation from people who can't understand the explination.

[severe path]

Man, LLVMpipe is fast.

39k fps! Woah!

[trim valve]

also audio nerds

[severe path]

NVIDIA GPUs be damned

[trim valve]

if I want a cheap set of speakers with the sole intention of being better than my monitor (screen) speakers, where should I look

[amber fractal]

The bar isn't that high for what I know, so almost anything dedicated. (not audio nerd)

[rigid snow]

actual answer is anywhere

i doubt it gets worse than built in display speakers

[trim valve]

ok, will look at the bottle opener on my desk

[rigid snow]

is that the one you were flashing to replace the audio

[trim valve]

yeah

I once again have motivation to do anything at all

[rigid snow]

it plays audio use that

[olive sable]

its a single triangle, id hope its fast

[amber fractal]

If I recall correctly, doesn't the current triangle code seperate sending data to the vulkan shader off main thread or am I vastly misremebering?

[olive sable]

it doesnt send data to the shader at all

the benchmark one at least

if you mean the production one. i think its split up ye

[amber fractal]

Makes sense

[mighty bane]

I think I have made progress with my little alam setup so that it now accepts user-configurable stuff such as...

Nevermind I just remembered a lot is still missing HAYIaaa

I have no mouth and I must scream

[sage crag]

wrrr

[rigid snow]

hello leader

[sage crag]

[olive sable]

banana campaign 2026 supreme overlord

[sage crag]

why am i leading another cult

[rigid snow]

there are no boundaries of banana

[sage crag]

https://tenor.com/view/borzoi-snoopa-lord-foog-dog-funny-gif-20125052

[olive sable]

another?

[rigid snow]

another

[sage crag]

Sendaihappy

oh

dont worry about

[olive sable]

[amber fractal]

Tackling this as a CPU issue, it feels like the best way for triangle would to be offloading generating the frame to elsewhere and let the presenting thread persent. Issue of course being random concept called race condition.

[olive sable]

nah

[pseudo grove]

concert

[sage crag]

without cpu synchronisation you dont get an accurate fps number

[olive sable]

many things in vulkan aren't thread bound

but that is

[severe path]

Are you speaking about just using a software raster engine?

[sage crag]

even in swrast vulkan is

funky

[olive sable]

thats only partialy true since it depends on driver behaviour on if it blocks at the drawcall when the queue is full, but it should

[sage crag]

its not "partially" true

it is true

[olive sable]

no

[sage crag]

whether driver handle synchronisation for you different matter

evilDentge

[severe path]

Isn't there a way to measure the flipping of framebuffers?

[olive sable]

if it blocks at the submitting to the queue it will be synced

[sage crag]

provided you are the one doing the flipping, yes

[severe path]

Like... If a buffer flips, then that's 1 frame

[sage crag]

unfortunately for performance we dont do that

anyway, vulkan isnt necessarily double buffered

[severe path]

What else could be doing the flipping?

[sage crag]

the gpu

[severe path]

But like... Isn't that done through a command?

[sage crag]

if you want to wait for the gpu to stop doing stuff, you can do a semaphore or use vkQueueWaitEmpty or something

[sage crag]

yes but there's a whole motherboard and pcie bus between the cpu and gpu

[olive sable]

we are on the cpu and the flipping happens in gpu land. to accurately get fps we need t monitor the gpu which actually costs perofrmance which is why we have foregone the syncing

[severe path]

Yeah.

That bus is fast though

[sage crag]

also, the cpu can queue commands a lot faster than

the bus

or the gpu can render, typically

[olive sable]

no not really

[hard delta]

connect them with copper wire

[sage crag]

if you measure the command queue you will get a hugely inflated number

if you wait with proper synchronisation you will get a number below the real value

there's no perfect way of measuring fps

[severe path]

You only have to flip a buffer like 60 times, at max.

The PC bus is plenty fast, with very little latency.

[sage crag]

my triangle runs at

95k fps

[severe path]

You guys don't know what you are talking about, and it shows.

[olive sable]

brother

[sage crag]

vedalPuppet

[hard delta]

limit it to 24 eyes can't see more

[olive sable]

there is a difference between what gets rendered and what gets diapalyed

[severe path]

Of course buffers flip faster than that in practice

[amber fractal]

Brother, do you need to see the repo and perhaps try it yourself

[olive sable]

when you look at your minecraft fps you arent looking at 600 and going "ye my monitor runs at 600hz"

[sage crag]

also, vulkan doesnt do "buffer flipping"

[severe path]

I've actually worked with GPU buffers.

[sage crag]

good for you, so have i

[severe path]

whatever

[amber fractal]

Do me a favor at put aside your ego and accept this isn't a normal case

[sage crag]

tutelBlabbering

[hard delta]

bro needs to work with manners next lmao

[sage crag]

[olive sable]

this discussion is pointless.
anyways for our purposes we need the fps of how many frames get rendered. otherwise i can just say im at 180fps the whole time

[amber fractal]

https://github.com/samvanmaele/vulkan/tree/main @severe path throw your optics over here if you really want to judge, might as well have code to judge

[olive sable]

im being used as an example

[amber fractal]

Konii is in the middle of a rewrite

[hard delta]

ex-sam-ple

[olive sable]

[that code is not up to vulkan spec cuz its made to get the fps number as high as possible]

[sage crag]

there are three metrics for fps

1. how many times a second you queue the full pipeline (on the cpu)
2. how many times a second you render the full pipeline (on the gpu) (alternatively, you could call it how often the gpu presents)
3. how many times the compositor decides to update the image displayed on your screen (and the various driver overheads)

only useful ones are the first two

well, third one is useful if you care about what it looks like

thankfully its a red triangle

[olive sable]

[amber fractal]

number 3 is just vsync

or at least close enough to it

[sage crag]

not necessarily, the compositor can decide to present frames as often as they arrive if it wants to

whether or not the display actually renders all of those frames is different

"renders"

https://tenor.com/view/borzoi-snoopa-lord-foog-dog-funny-gif-20125052

[olive sable]

dawg

[severe path]

Vukan still hides some low level stuff from the user, such as mode setting (which is done by the compositor).

SDL is hiding the communication and setup taking place between your program, and the compositor.

[sage crag]

vedalPuppet

llm

modesetting is a display drm thing

[rough bloom]

how is modesetting even remotely relevant here

[sage crag]

and sdl is just the vessel for the window creation

[amber fractal]

Fine, but that is the domain of the problem we are solving. The point of the challenge is to use it :mug:

[sage crag]

it doesnt actually play any part in, well, anything to do with rendering except handing off to the compositor

[severe path]

The compositor has to modeset its own frame buffer, before your triangle can be displayed on top of it.

[sage crag]

evilDentge

[rough bloom]

[amber fractal]

[olive sable]

[severe path]

You guys should go and figure this out yourselves.

How would an application display a triangle on Wayland?

[amber fractal]

Question for Sam's repo. Anyone have the nix shell for building it? I lost it in a drive wipe

[sage crag]

this is either godly ragebait or you just have a hole in your head

[sage crag]

i do

{ pkgs ? import <nixpkgs> {} }: pkgs.gccStdenv.mkDerivation rec {
  name = ":small_red_triangle:";
  nativeBuildInputs = with pkgs; [
    lld
    clang
  ];
  buildInputs = with pkgs; [
    glm
    sdl3

    vulkan-loader
    vulkan-headers
    gamemode
  ];
  env.LD_LIBRARY_PATH = pkgs.lib.makeLibraryPath buildInputs;
  env.NIX_ENFORCE_NO_NATIVE = 0;
}

[amber fractal]

Because sam is on nix we should upstream it

[severe path]

No, I'm being serious.

Vulkan renders a triangle. That has to be sent to the compositor, somehow.

How?

Once you can answer that, you will at least know enough to understand somewhat what I'm trying to say.

[sage crag]

google dmabuf you dingus

[severe path]

What does dmabuf do?

[rough bloom]

add flake
nix run github:samvanmaele/vulkan

[sage crag]

ElvynSerius

i just said google it

[severe path]

I already know the answer.

I'm guiding you

[sage crag]

youre an llm

dear god

[amber fractal]

No one needs guiding here

[sage crag]

except you

clearly

[amber fractal]

this topic is being revisited from over 5 months ago

when every person in chat was pitching in for results

I tried my hand at the code as well, didn't do much but it was fun

[severe path]

Vulkan isn't magic... You are treating it like it is magic. Your lack of understanding is what's holding you back.

[sage crag]

its really an llm

the typing style is so obvious

[rough bloom]

[severe path]

Shove my words into an LLM checker, then. See what it says.

[sage crag]

evilDentge

[olive sable]

we all know vulkan isnt magic, ive been writing shaders for years

[amber fractal]

Then try your own hand at making something that runs faster, providided it is in the rules of using vulkan

[severe path]

I dare you.

[sage crag]

if vulkan was magic it would be seriously less frustrating

[sage crag]

i double dare you to shut up and take a walk before you make yourself sound more stupid than you already do

[olive sable]

cpu does the drawcall
cpu does present call
driver hands the rendered image to the compositor
compositro decides what to do with it
compositor makes the final image that needs to be sent to the screen
image gets displayed on screen

what frames exactly get sent are dependent on the vulkan settings and modestting, but that has no influence on how many frames actually got rendered

[amber fractal]

Clearly the "master of gpu" can use the underlying parts of vulkan to beat the current rewrite under the contest rules. @severe path I'm not taking you seriously until you take a stab at it.

[sage crag]

there's so much vulkan boilerplate around that even a vibecoder could write a vulkan triangle

probably

[rough bloom]

definitely

[severe path]

But what do you call a rendered frame, exactly?

Where in this process does something become fully rendered?

[rough bloom]

explained above

multiple times

[olive sable]

well, you see, i call them rendered frames, or in other words, jsut frames

[tender river]

[olive sable]

they're frames

frame

plural

frames

[severe path]

But like... when is the frame finished rendering?

[amber fractal]

wasn't that the OSX port by Vani actually? I recall it being vibecoded to work on Mac

[severe path]

Is it when a buffer is flipped? Is it when a semaphore is triggered?

[sage crag]

"buffer flip"

[olive sable]

when the render pipeline is finsihed

[sage crag]

vedalPuppet

[amber fractal]

Wait until the meta of not using a GPU at all is revealed

[olive sable]

i present, the render pipeline.
our lord and saviour in the holy year of 2026

[abstract bronze]

hello smart swarm people im a bit doopid and idk waht im doing but im tryna learn to code a discord bot right but uhh idk waht i did wrong but the packages wont install and idk waht to do

[amber fractal]

language and package name

[severe path]

How do you determine when the render pipeline is finished?

[warped narwhal]

I wonder if you can get a faster frame if you use mesh shaders instead

[abstract bronze]

right so im using python and pycharm

[amber fractal]

Your unfortantly picked a bad time

[olive sable]

you can, depends on usecase tho

[sage crag]

https://tenor.com/view/bunny-rabbit-pats-pet-bunny-pats-gif-19861222

[abstract bronze]

im using the discord.py and python-dotenv

[abstract bronze]

oh

[warped narwhal]

jetbrains superiority