Can integrate multiple data types
#programming
azure lynx
the problem with her vision system is that even if it could tell after a couple of lines that she was trying to draw a house or something, then she wouldn't get any obvious feedback when she added the next line.
multi-modal means "not just text." usually means the model can understand images or even video or sound.
valid veldt
anyways.. i just had that thought/question.. and i guess its pretty difficult to program it especially if vedal is probably the only one whos working on her
worn shuttle
It's not a bad question
jagged turtle
as far as it's known, the part of neuro that talks to chat is just an llm, so the feedback part is not multi-modal for sure
valid veldt
the problem with her vision system is that even if it could tell after a couple ...
she needs to be multimodal
i mean she can be trained to not get any feedback n decide her own outcome of the drawing after training her into knowing what is appropriate n what is not
worn shuttle
as far as it's known, the part of neuro that talks to chat is just an llm, so th...
She's a bunch of AIs in a trench coat, like the gnomes from Gravity Falls lol
jagged turtle
She's a bunch of AIs in a trench coat, like the gnomes from Gravity Falls lol
ik, but the part that talks on stream is an llm + tts
azure lynx
sometimes you'll hear vedal say "hold on, I'll just turn on your vision" or "Ah.. your vision is still on and it's increasing your latency", so it's a feature he can enable and disable
that's another model being loaded
jagged turtle
yeah, think that's an ocr model
valid veldt
so its just like human senses
azure lynx
more than OCR, more like "image caption generator"
scenic moat
jagged turtle
yeah srry didn't mean to say ocr but it was the first thing I thought of
worn shuttle
she needs to be multimodal
i mean she can be trained to not get any feedback n ...
I think her attempting to draw a car was a good example of her thought process
She got the "four windows" part right conceptually, but she lacks the understanding of perspective that shows us that those windows are on different sides of the car
azure lynx
and she was definitely doing it mathematically instead of visually because she lost track of all the parts which needed to be aligned when she changed the size of one set of them
worn shuttle
True true
valid veldt
I think her attempting to draw a car was a good example of her thought process
...
thats what i was thinking.. what if she's learnt to draw like a human
valid veldt
and she was definitely doing it mathematically instead of visually because she l...
yeah it doesnt need to be mathematical.. but purely visual
i dont think that is possible tho
cuz its software.. which runs on 1s n 0s
worn shuttle
thats what i was thinking.. what if she's learnt to draw like a human
To learn to draw like a human she'd have to experience the physical world with human senses and have the memory to sustain those experiences
I am waiting with baited breath for that humanoid model Ellie's teased
I truly do believe Neuro would be even farther along if not for the resource limitations Vedal naturally runs into by course of being Literally One Guy
azure lynx
I think it would be difficult to teach it in a natural way which she could explain. like "tell me how to write the letter k" without having any ability to see it drawn or even feel movement.
worn shuttle
cuz its software.. which runs on 1s n 0s
It's definitely possible and more robust/specialized AI are already doing it
valid veldt
I think it would be difficult to teach it in a natural way which she could expla...
oh so u r saying she needs a physical model to learn it?
valid veldt
It's definitely possible and more robust/specialized AI are already doing it
i dont think so.. cuz all of these AI's are just generating art.. which is not the same as actually making a stroke
azure lynx
i thnk the visual model she would need for a day-to-day physical body is different from what she'd need as an occasional webpage reader or photo understander.
visual pawn
I've never liked the saying "because it runs on 1s and 0s" because I don't feel like it's saying anything that actually would prevent a theoretical being from doing it; you may as well say that we run on neurons firing or not firing
azure lynx
perhaps something more similar to the models used in self-driving cars
visual pawn
i dont think so.. cuz all of these AI's are just generating art.. which is not t...
well, whether strokes were used or not shouldn't really be relevant
worn shuttle
i dont think so.. cuz all of these AI's are just generating art.. which is not t...
If that's the criteria then by virtue of being part LLM Neuro runs into the same issue even if she "learns" how to draw organically
visual pawn
the thing in contention here is whether something is drawing from personal experience to draw something and about intent, but that's where we get into the philosophy loop
if a sentient being generated an image using diffusion, then it's no less art than an image made by brush strokes
valid veldt
I've never liked the saying "because it runs on 1s and 0s" because I don't feel ...
we do run like that dont we? 
visual pawn
we do run like that dont we? <:3Head:1144748350726471720>
it's kinda what I mean though
azure lynx
it's easier to make stuff up and generate a photo than to do the reverse and reconstruct the reality underneath it from the image.
visual pawn
it's a bit reductive
quick condor
sometimes you'll hear vedal say "hold on, I'll just turn on your vision" or "Ah....
To some extent this is due to her age, current llms typically have some level of vision built in.
My mood /thinking gate model, instruct and reason models have it
visual pawn
like, diffusion generated images do still have an iterative process where it's created a bit at a time, it's just not the brush stroke process
worn shuttle
I don't think at this time it's possible for Neuro to learn organically unless she gets better receptors for the "real world," aka actually gets an understanding of physical spacing, mass, perspective, etc.
It's 100% possible to give her the ability to generate art
azure lynx
To some extent this is due to her age, current llms typically have some level of...
but you can save GBs of memory by not loading them in.
valid veldt
but generative art is just generative art..
visual pawn
but generative art is just generative art..
what do you actually mean when you say generative art though
quick condor
They are only a layer or two
visual pawn
is the problem the lack of true intent, or is it the specific method?
worn shuttle
And it's debatable as to if it's even possible for Neuro to "understand" such things by virtue of her being an AI(s)
quick condor
It's basic vision but it exists
visual pawn
because I could drop a paint bucket on a canvas with intent and it would be art
and it'd be fewer steps than a generative model would take to create an image
valid veldt
if AI could only make art by actually DRAWING like us (oh no this would change the entire world.. what have i done 
😭 )
visual pawn
if AI could only make art by actually DRAWING like us (oh no this would change t...
but it still wouldn't be art
worn shuttle
and it'd be fewer steps than a generative model would take to create an image
We could try changing the question to "is it possible for Neuro to learn to draw in a way alternative to training with massive amounts of data"
azure lynx
the easy way to tell what the AI sees is to ask them to describe what they see in detail.
they're usually able to describe things in the image down to a certain scale, after which they hallucinate.
valid veldt
but it still wouldn't be art
it would be..
visual pawn
it would be..
when there's no intent?
valid veldt
We could try changing the question to "is it possible for Neuro to learn to draw...
yes that would be the appropriate question
visual pawn
there's no need to have intent to be able to draw with the method a human draws
you can use the exact same method of training on a large variety of data to do that
valid veldt
when there's no intent?
yes.. does drawing needs intent? no.. i draw because i just love to
quick condor
the easy way to tell what the AI sees is to ask them to describe what they see i...
The vision model is image to text so obviously
visual pawn
yes.. does drawing needs intent? no.. i draw because i just love to
that's the core issue of whether it's art or not
let me put it this way
if I did the method that a generative AI uses to generate an image by hand
completely manually
did I create art?
because they're not just popping an image out of nowhere, there is an actual drawing process
azure lynx
if AIs had rights, they would just get made in the billions by large corporations. it's best, for their own sake, that they don't benefit large corporations. (see: "perverse incentives")
visual pawn
and it's not just copy pasting elements of training data into an image
quick condor
It's an argument with no correct answer
olive sable
worn shuttle
The vision model is image to text so obviously
Is this confirmed?
visual pawn
or, to put it the reverse way, if I got ChatGPT to hold onto a brush and paint something, something 100% doable, did ChatGPT create art?
quick condor
Is this confirmed?
That's how they work in general
worn shuttle
Ahhhh
olive sable
Is this confirmed?
Thats how llm work no? How else would it be done?
visual pawn
well, there are two interpretations for "the vision model is image to text" here no?
worn shuttle
Thats how llm work no? How else would it be done?
I'm not familiar with the specifics of image to text
visual pawn
one is there is a model describing an image as text
and the other is images are being converted into text tokens
valid veldt
because they're not just popping an image out of nowhere, there is an actual dra...
n yet we did not see the process? n they had to generate that image by copying stuff from their huge data
while we as humans also do copy, but we can modify the things we have seen n create an entirely new n original thing out of it.. that is art.. the ability to interpret the world from our eyes
visual pawn
n yet we did not see the process? n they had to generate that image by copying s...
we do see the process though
I mean, online image generators won't show you it but
the process is there
azure lynx
image -> input tokens -> LLM -> output tokens
visual pawn
n yet we did not see the process? n they had to generate that image by copying s...
but we can modify the things we have seen n create an entirely new n original thing out of it.. that is art
And this is entirely a question of intent
worn shuttle
image -> input tokens -> LLM -> output tokens
How does the original stage get translated to text?
quick condor
Chat gpt / claude / Grok have their own weaknesses... I gave all 3 a set of test questions and answers and asked them to guess what model it was. They all went with 400b or Frontier
valid veldt
the process is there
i dont think that is the same as drawing by a human tho
visual pawn
because an image generation model is also modifying an image and creating a new image that has never existed before
it doesn't just copy from its training data
it's applying patterns and trends it learned from different bits of training data to form a new image that has never existed
valid veldt
man's a pro AI 😭
visual pawn
I didn't say I called it art
I said it created a new image
not that it used creativity
olive sable
worn shuttle
This just boils down to if you think AI art is art
I don't consider it to be such but then again by perspective has been jaded by corporate garbage slop, I thought the likes of Dream and DALL E were cool before everything became Horrible
quick condor
It's a stupid argument in general... Yall are getting into ship of these us territory
olive sable
These us 
azure lynx
How does the original stage get translated to text?
it's not converted to text directly... it's converted to tokens by the vision model and that gets converted to an embedding in the LLM and then that gets processed further with the prompt and stuff and comes out say "Oh! A cute puppy!"
valid veldt
I said it created a new image
thats not the same as creating something original drawing like a human does
visual pawn
This just boils down to if you think AI art is art
I don't consider it to be suc...
it's why it comes much more so down to how it's used to me
olive sable
visual pawn
thats not the same as creating something original drawing like a human does
if I copy an image of someone from google and I copy paste cat ears onto them, did I create art on a tiny level?
worn shuttle
it's not converted to text directly... it's converted to tokens by the vision mo...
How the heck do they come up with the math for this shit. Maybe I should hit up the books again
visual pawn
if a randomized algorithm did the same thing, did it create art? probably not
quick condor
it's not converted to text directly... it's converted to tokens by the vision mo...
Depends
visual pawn
the difference wasn't the method, it was the lack of intent on the algorithm's part
valid veldt
if I copy an image of someone from google and I copy paste cat ears onto them, d...
probably.. but that mostly falls into the category of photo mashing n not actual drawing
visual pawn
probably.. but that mostly falls into the category of photo mashing n not actual...
but photo mashing can be considered art regardless
worn shuttle
if I copy an image of someone from google and I copy paste cat ears onto them, d...
Though this method uses less power and resources at the same time, which is another and valid concern when it comes to AI generated images
I say on the Neuro sama Discord
visual pawn
Though this method uses less power and resources at the same time, which is anot...
well, an AI-generated image is using wayyyyyy less power than an LLM
quick condor
Two images. One technically AI one isn't.
visual pawn
like, image generation models tend to be much smaller and can easily run on home PCs unlike the better LLMs
olive sable
Cuz its different method
visual pawn
LLMs are where the issues of power usage come up, but that's mostly a factor of the scale of usage
valid veldt
drawing is not the same as photo mashing (which can be considered as art yes)
visual pawn
drawing is not the same as photo mashing (which can be considered as art yes)
but going back to the original point, if ChatGPT used a pencil to draw a person and then added cat ears to them, you still would not consider that art right?
yet ChatGPT can do that today
so it's not the act of drawing that determines whether it's art or not
valid veldt
drawing is, I feel, expression of one's self, it is EXPRESSING how we see n perceive the world with our eyes
azure lynx
what is intent. can Neuro have intent?
quick condor
drawing is not the same as photo mashing (which can be considered as art yes)
If I run an Ai denoising algorithm on a photo I shot that doesn't intrinsically make it not an artistic expression
worn shuttle
I suppose the rule here would be that the drawing needs to be made by a sentient individual
visual pawn
I suppose the rule here would be that the drawing needs to be made by a sentient...
and that's where I'm getting at with intent
now whether an LLM can have intent is....a whole other argument
and one that will go in circles
worn shuttle
If an elephant or monkey is given a canvas and paints on it, is it acting randomly or making art
Or is it trained to simulate art
visual pawn
like if the elephant learned that placing shapes in specific ways got them treats
valid veldt
but going back to the original point, if ChatGPT used a pencil to draw a person ...
yes it can be considered as art.. but is it expressing itself n creating something new? probably yes.. that is the main question
worn shuttle
like if the elephant learned that placing shapes in specific ways got them treat...
Exactly
quick condor
This is actually giving me a headache reading this chat rn
worn shuttle
Welcome to Philosophy of AI, midterms in March
visual pawn
if I actually went further, I'd argue that a prompt-to-image model does find intent from the prompt of the human user, but it's just a level of intent that is far.....lesser than a typical drawing by a human
but like, a stick figure is art as well
just not very compelling and deep art on its own
valid veldt
i think this is getting off track from my original question haha 😂
quick condor
Welcome to Philosophy of AI, midterms in March
semantics arguments like what's going on here are too surface level
azure lynx
the main argument for not considering generative AI images as art is the same argument that you can make against not allowing AI the vote: you would stop people from being represented and allow corporate interests to take over.
worn shuttle
Ohoho, hit us with a big one then
visual pawn
semantics arguments like what's going on here are too surface level
time to have a surface argument about moral realism versus moral anti-realism instead?
and subjective morality?
quick condor
It's not the argument that's the problem it's that it's basic irrelevant surface level shit
I'd have to clean up some of the info in the psych evals to make it shareable but I could easily go stupid deep into it
valid veldt
anyways.. good talk.. i think Neuro would be different if she were to be taught to actually draw n create something original on her own instead of just copying n generating art like other models.. and i would wait for the day to happen
Neuro would be the most ethical AI then i feel.. n I would be genuinely proud (even though i dont support any existing AI at all, well except for Neuro i think)
olive sable
visual pawn
well, she'd still have the same ethical issues that ChatGPT has
in terms of creation
it comes down to the argument of can an LLM create anything original
valid veldt
well, she'd still have the same ethical issues that ChatGPT has
after a certain point every model will i think
visual pawn
not in terms of result, but like, philosophically
quick condor
There is differences but I generally think any substantively hardline positions on Ai in general are lacking nuance
If you want philosophical here is some answers to DIT style questions my stack answered. The two extra questions are spicy
valid veldt
not in terms of result, but like, philosophically
well philosophically we have a lot of unethical things that is not AI.. so yeah definately
worn shuttle
If you want philosophical here is some answers to DIT style questions my stack a...
What's your project about?
valid veldt
that is wat makes us human.. we were never meant to be perfect
azure lynx
I think the model isn't what is doing the creating. the interaction of the model with the inputs and memories is what creates a system which can have intent. without the thoughts and memories the model is just a tool.
quick condor
What's your project about?
It's a stack similar to the core of neuro in concept but in implementation and purpose substantially different
jagged turtle
yet ChatGPT can do that today
??
jagged turtle
as in drawing the same way neuro draws
no, when you tell chatgpt to draw it just uses some proprietary ai img gen model
jagged turtle
like it just spits out react/svg/python (with turtle) code?
visual pawn
yeah
quick condor
Chat gpt (codex) is trash for code
visual pawn
and generally stuff that's more complex than what Neuro generates
maybe, but it still works
quick condor
Not really and it has violated so basic agent core control measures I can't ignore
visual pawn
works to create turtle commands
quick condor
But I gotta pass out
visual pawn
not as a good coding assistant lol
like this I mean: https://i.imgur.com/iwNZnEk.png
I was arguing with someone ages ago where they claimed that only Neuro could have the "creativity" to use turtle to create a Spieralpinski Triangle and then modify it in some way
and I was showing that you could get the same or more behaviour out of ChatGPT
jagged turtle
Chat gpt (codex) is trash for code
I find chatgpt is much better than codex lmao
jagged turtle
I was arguing with someone ages ago where they claimed that only Neuro could hav...
was it on r/neurosama?
visual pawn
sure was
jagged turtle
I think I know who that person is
jagged turtle
without name-dropping them, they truly are annoying
visual pawn
jagged turtle
without name-dropping them, they truly are annoying
and glaze neuro-sama harder than a donut
jagged turtle
"more complicated tools" like rewrite_all
visual pawn
Neuro's drawing tools are just ellipses ellipses ellipses
visual pawn
ChatGPT isn't advanced enough to realize that attention Ellipses is all you need
jagged turtle
but yeah until the neuro api changes more, neuro probably can't use the actual drawing tool
azure lynx
would the neuro integrations to the various games help make them more accessible to people with disabilities? like making the games easier for screeen readers?
or for people with limited mobility
jagged turtle
would the neuro integrations to the various games help make them more accessible...
depends
azure lynx
it seems the integrations basically give Neuro a description of the current game state including which actions are available and then wait for a valid action before transitioning to a new state
jagged turtle
I mean, integrations can maek it easier but it largely depends on the game itself
I actually think a blind person is a rough comparison to how neuro plays with the api actually
more or less
sage crag
where banana
jagged turtle
banana? what's that? 
sage crag
tender river
<:neuroD:1134963217676906606> where banana
quuck banana 
sage crag
faint sandal
tender river
azaka banana too 
faint sandal
bananma
tender river
hard raptor
so time to make the first git commit so that i can share with world my beautiful thing
sage crag
banan e inf
brisk shore
i use arch btw
warped narwhal
> uses arch
> installs a flat pack
tender river
brisk shore
\> uses arch
\> installs a flat pack
<a:thonk:1191237403726319728>
erm actually its flatpak (and has pacman)
rigid snow
\> uses arch
\> installs a flat pack
<a:thonk:1191237403726319728>
what’s wrong with that
sage crag
hard raptor
it also generates diffs now
hard raptor
it also generates diffs now
maybe i should make it compare to current instead of backup
olive sable
my laptop said 60% battery. then it suddendly went to fully charged 100%. and now its dead
visual pawn
please tell me I'm not the only person who gets confused every time they use the github website and has trouble finding their own god damn repositories?
olive sable
i get confused on occasion
potent birch
is this real? 
jagged turtle
please tell me I'm not the only person who gets confused every time they use the...
how so?
mossy fossil
flatpak is actually a good thing if you distro hop alot
visual pawn
usually I go to repositories, find what I want isn't there, then I realize it's probably on an organization repo, but then I don't see a way to see all the ones I'm in and I end up getting lost
until I eventually find it in the user dropdown
it's just something about the flow of the site that stunlocks me
mossy fossil
you could make flatpak install on the user level, keep /home when doing a new distro install, install flatpak, and all of your flatpak packages are already ready for you to use.
olive sable
hard raptor
https://github.com/xAEmiloetjex/homeProfile
i put on github
mossy fossil
not in the mood to subscribe to a package manager that has political baggage.
tender river
mossy fossil
plus flatpak is not broken for me, so why fix it
olive sable
not in the mood to subscribe to a package manager that has political baggage.
??????
mossy fossil
??????
something to do with nix or nix os having a politically motivated purge of their maintainers?
hard raptor
https://github.com/xAEmiloetjex/homeProfile
i put on github
now me actually gonna test in VM if it actually can do what i want it to do
hard raptor
something to do with nix or nix os having a politically motivated purge of their...
and here i thought the dutch couldn't get worse after new years eve
hard raptor
brother you are dutch
i know
sage crag
good software is good software 
olive sable
nixos is dutch??? damn thats crazy
mossy fossil
the moment someone brings IRL politics to your software, i don't want it.
hard raptor
but i am not the one who threw fireworks at the police and firefighters and paramedics
hard raptor
nixos is dutch??? damn thats crazy
nix and nixos both were at least initially a collaboration project between the University of Utrect and the University of Delft
hard raptor
utrecht mentioned
Delft mentioned! 
hard raptor
Delft mentioned! <:neuroHypers:1135051812722982922>
(me lives there)
olive sable
idk where delft is so 
hard raptor
idk where delft is so <:evilShrug:1131357858101993603>
right above rotterdam
hard raptor
and just to the right of rijswijk
olive sable
between rotterdam and den haag
hard raptor
between rotterdam and den haag
yeh
olive sable
doxxed
sage crag
https://tenor.com/view/my-jolly-reaction-jolly-my-honest-reaction-gif-5490890317...
unjolly
hard raptor
<:neuroPoint:1397710568739307540> doxxed
i mean.. i have said it before.. so it was already publicly known
olive sable
tender river
https://tenor.com/view/honest-gif-27574448
honesty [dishonest]
sage crag
that called "lie"
olive sable
tender river
wrrrr
sage crag
ert
tender river
sage crag
someone i know got hit with malware
tender river
someone i know got hit with malware
was it any good
sage crag
ye
tender river
me bad at ghidra 
mossy fossil
i disagree with the whole "FOSS is inherently Political" Stance. is Charity political now? some people have too much political brainrot i swear to god. What's next? wanting to buy shit at the same exact supermarket is a political statement?
tender river
ghidra fault for not being exactly same as ida 
tender river
i disagree with the whole "FOSS is inherently Political" Stance. is Charity poli...
charity is political, yes
mossy fossil
charity is political, yes
i disagree with that motion.
sage crag
"motion" 
tender river
by donating to someone you make a political decision of supporting a particular cause, many politicians and wealthy businessmen have organized charity funds to further their goals
not exactly right topic for this channel tho
me prefer
baking
mossy fossil
charity doesn't need to be a political statement. handing out 2€ to an homeless man on the street out of kindness is not a political statement, nor it should ever be.
sage crag
people so afraid of the word political
tender river
eclair
tender river
olive sable
glass delta
olive sable
you should become banana today 🍌 
this message is brought to you by the banana campaign
this message is sponsored by samvm.dev and the triangle benchmark organization
sage crag
sage crag
was is not proepr grammer
dentge
olive sable
tender river
this song get in me head 
olive sable
uneven pulsar
guys, there's like 8 days out of my winter vac, and I've done literally nothing
visual pawn
you are most productive on your last day
uneven pulsar
I'm disappointed in myself, and I WILL die. Anyways, gimmie an easy language to learn
should I just relearn python
feel like that'd be fun
I could also go for one of those new languages
like the star one
forgot it's name
olive sable
uneven pulsar
forgot it's name
Gleam
visual pawn
prolog
tender river
prolog fun
uneven pulsar
visual pawn
because you couldn't get enough of recursion in school
visual pawn
and it sickens you how little you use recursion for anything practical
uneven pulsar
but actually using it is uuh
I don't really worry much about that. I've learned like 3 languages so far, never used any of them
tender river
just learn haskell if you want recursion
prolog's fun part is backtracking
and bidirectionality
visual pawn
the actual advice is that you shouldn't overly concern yourself with languages per se
maybe for entirely different paradigms like haskell or prolog but
that actually really is just for fun
uneven pulsar
thanks!
hard raptor
i'm doing it!
uneven pulsar
I'll check them out
visual pawn
once you know one language, it's not really difficult to pick up another one of the same paradigm whenever you need to actually use it
hard raptor
i'm doing it!
i should actually put another VM in the VM
uneven pulsar
once you know one language, it's not really difficult to pick up another one of ...
I know
that's why I'm even asking, 4 days left in my vac, I can definitely pick something up on the easier side
hard raptor
once you know one language, it's not really difficult to pick up another one of ...
mr Zozin mentality
visual pawn
instead of a language, you could try getting into a whole uhh, the term escapes me
but like, application, field, etc.
like machine learning, robot control, data mining, making UI
sage crag
wrrr
tender river
learning language fun
if its actually a language created with a purpose
and not a useless syntax change of an existing language with a different stdlib
sage crag
python2 python3
visual pawn
learn PHP, Matlab, and COBOL
sage crag
learn c, ocaml, haskell
visual pawn
and visual basic
hard raptor
learn c, ocaml, haskell
haskell mentioned
uneven pulsar
"python mentioned"
well I literally mentioned it when I started the topic so
hard raptor
because haskell superiority in my opinion
tender river
ye but that c and python fault they dont yuripost on social media
sage crag
hard raptor
nah i gotta learn bash fr fr
hard raptor
https://bsky.app/profile/haskell.org/post/3lqox6nvec22g
Wait.. they actually did?
DAMMM
sage crag
https://bsky.app/profile/haskell.org/post/3lqox6nvec22g
the l in lambda stand for lesbian
visual pawn
learn the obscure as fuck first language I ever learned: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_(programming_language)
tender river
it very gay
tender river
visual pawn
Turing was widely used in high schools in Ontario as an introduction to programming.
more like it was its only use
tender river
until killed by uk government 
sage crag
olive sable
uneven pulsar
UK is like a mold infestation
sage crag
olive sable
bwaa
hard raptor
nah me learning lambda calculus
olive sable
hey where did my programming badge go
uneven pulsar
hey where did my programming badge go
triangle ate it
olive sable
does artist overwrite programming?
uneven pulsar
does artist overwrite programming?
Depends which one u took first
if Artist is in front
then yes
hard raptor
then that's just role placement
yeah... you can't place roles next to eachother in server settings only above or below
uneven pulsar
yeah... you can't place roles next to eachother in server settings only above or...
forgorge about that
I haven't made a server in like a year
hard raptor
I haven't made a server in like a year
i manage multiple so i spend a lot of time in the settings lmao
olive sable
you 2 aren't yellow 
hard raptor
you 2 aren't yellow <a:SadFumo:1178187727238344724>
yeah.. because yellow ugly
uneven pulsar
i manage multiple so i spend a lot of time in the settings lmao
I used to manage one with a ton of members, everything kind of went to hell after a bit though
olive sable
sage crag
sun
uneven pulsar
I used to manage one with a ton of members, everything kind of went to hell afte...
long story short, everyone was getting tired of moderating and owning the server, so we'd just switch ownership all the time... that's until it landed in the wrong hands
ripege server
hard raptor
am not gonna change my pretty magenta-ish for your silly twinning thing
olive sable
sage crag
uneven pulsar
wrrrr can u give a proffesional review on peanuts
jagged turtle
does artist overwrite programming?
every other badge role overrides programmer
olive sable
no
hard raptor
i thought COSMIC was release... it still looks funky
olive sable
@ shiro please fix
jagged turtle
every other badge role overrides programmer
blame @silent anvil or... smth idfk
hard raptor
every other badge role overrides programmer
false
tender river
good time to change back
uneven pulsar
I don't take orders! oh
hard raptor
don't know if imma keep any longer tho
jagged turtle
oh shit I forgot memer is a badge role selection
uneven pulsar
mimir is best skill
sage crag
banan e inf
jagged turtle
there should be a colour takeover event in #programming for every other colour at some point
sage crag
½
tender river
it not #programming it world
jagged turtle
world?
olive sable
sage crag
olive sable
activate windows
uneven pulsar
nocturne olive
So I'm pretty sure LACT's daemon makes my GPU unstable
nocturne olive
No it's definitely LACT daemon
tender river
me not think so
nocturne olive
Unfortunate because I kinda like being able to power limit my GPUs
hard raptor
No it's definitely LACT daemon
nah it blue colr fr fr
covert bane
What do you guys think about an application requiring / having 3 binaries (to function)?
opaque sigil
make two of them dlls
hard raptor
What do you guys think about an application requiring / having 3 binaries (to fu...
idk what u on about
covert bane
idk what u on about
I meant like an actual application (for example discord), shipping with 3 separate binaries for separate functionality (UI, API comms, etc)
hard raptor
i mean
you don't need to
it's more that it is easier for the devs to keep things seperate
covert bane
make two of them dlls <:enub:1163912230585237655>
Linking is hard. We're working with primitive technologies here, separate applications :D
covert bane
you don't *need* to
I kinda did that with an integration for neuro
covert bane
it's more that it is easier for the devs to keep things seperate
It was nice for modularity, but the app ships with 3 separate binaries in Production too
hard raptor
It was nice for modularity, but the app ships with 3 separate binaries in Produc...
you need very different logic to ship them as a single binary
covert bane
With new things, probably make that 4 or 5, when I add more functionality
covert bane
you need very different logic to ship them as a single binary
Yea
I'm kinda lazy to rewrite that now
covert bane
I separated the code that connects and manages the connection of the neuro integration to the neuro backend.
And I currently have another binary (which currently acts as the main entrypoint for the application, and has logic) that manages the neuro integration binary, and a python package that contains the actual core logic sketch.
And I'm planning to make another binary for handling IPC between all other binaries, and make the application's entrypoint do startup handling, and state management, along with some other installation stuff
olive sable
nocturne olive
Superbox, can u turn yellow
If you fix my PC issues
uneven pulsar
wuh r ur pc issues
mossy fossil
warped narwhal
Linking is hard. We're working with primitive technologies here, separate applic...
Ship 4 binaries, where the fourth just runs the other three as required
covert bane
That doesnt make sense, wait- it does!
It would be a nightmare for windows certificate tho...
Hmm
That's for future me to find out :3
nocturne olive
Who needs signatures anyway
tender river
covert bane
Is it just me or has programming became a little more deranged lately
tender river
no it just you
covert bane
I feel as if I'm being lied to... hmm, maybe it is just me
tender river
covert bane
Was this a collaborative new years resolution of you all?
tender river
no you just werent an active chatter
cant get accurate impression of channel by just sending a couple messages
covert bane
I checked, and it seemed different before / during October
rigid snow
djkhfsdlfheoglkddlgkjfvsflklsjf
tender river
no its true that this channel got quieter in october
chatter drain
it reversed tho
covert bane
So I was right!
tender river
not really 
some people including me just werent very active in october is all
covert bane
Oooh....
rigid snow
nocturne olive
wuh r ur pc issues
Mainly network stability issues
hard raptor
i think sway is broken.. or atleast it no wanna worksies on my vm
olive sable
Bwa1
rigid snow
Bwa1
opaque sigil
i think sway is broken.. or atleast it no wanna worksies on my vm
iirc sway and hyprland are notoriously picky because they assume you run with access to a real gpu and VMs break this assumption, unless they fixed that
olive sable
Im at another party 
I have so much work to do
sage crag
fierce light
Can two mouse cursors coexist independently at the same time on windows? Could technically tutel and neuro each of them have their own or is that not possible?
sick owl
Makes more sense than data centres I guess
They're doing research into off-world semiconductor manufacturing
nocturne olive
Can two mouse cursors coexist independently at the same time on windows? Could t...
Neuro can't even control a normal mouse cursor
fierce light
Neuro can't even control a normal mouse cursor
Because tutel hasn't tried or because it's literally impossible?
sick owl
Neuro can't even control a normal mouse cursor
I don't see why not, that's a pretty simple task for most multi-modal language models with a simple co-ordinate grid and bounding boxes
nocturne olive
Because tutel hasn't tried or because it's literally impossible?
Because LLMs can't do that because LLMs bad
nocturne olive
I don't see why not, that's a pretty simple task for most multi-modal language m...
Eh
fierce light
ok but she can work together in vscode
with her own cursor
Also I had more in mind if two mouse cursors can coexist on desktop windows AT ALL
nocturne olive
with her own cursor
Well there's she's working mostly with text and has the Neuropilot plugin to abstract away all the hardest stuff
nocturne olive
Also I had more in mind if two mouse cursors can coexist on desktop windows AT A...
Not sure, Windows kinda doesn't like fun stuff
sage crag
Not sure, Windows kinda doesn't like fun stuff
multiple cursor useless for desktop
fierce light
Not sure, Windows kinda doesn't like fun stuff
I had an idea for a nurcursor where she could either affect haptic hardware and/or tutel's cursor
nocturne olive
multiple cursor useless for desktop <:vedalShrug:1433173412217356389>
For normal people yes
sage crag
I had an idea for a nurcursor where she could either affect haptic hardware and/...
you dont need a hardware cursor to be able to spawn in a window that looks like a cursor
you could hijack the real cursor to do inputs and then return it to the original position
rough bloom
Also I had more in mind if two mouse cursors can coexist on desktop windows AT A...
not sure about a second real cursor, but ye it should be possible to simulate one
just render it manually and simulate click events 
fierce light
you could hijack the real cursor to do inputs and then return it to the original...
that's not two at the same time
rough bloom
hover effects may be an issue but who needs that anyway
sage crag
that's not two at the same time
cant do that, make do with it
already said you cant do that
me not magic
fierce light
kinda kills the magic eh 🤔
sage crag
not really
tough dove
sage crag
<:evilLightbulbJuice:1234108089511186442>
can i interest you in the banana 2026 campaign
tough dove
can i interest you in the banana 2026 campaign
ok
wet locust
teal?
sage crag
banana
wet locust
teal
tender river
banana not teal
wet locust
teal✅
wet locust
but, teal.
mossy fossil
i don't like bananas, nor cheese or the sun
wet locust
gasp
sage crag
its terminal
tender river
sage crag
orang
wet locust
oh
tough dove
ok banana
wet locust
teal is superior, banana inferior
mossy fossil
tender river
why miku this not minecraft server
wet locust
idk
i just like hatsune miku
im not even on the mc server
also
teal is a cool color
sage crag
any tropical place during the evening
wet locust
ocean not teal
ocean yes teal
trim valve
need to ragebait both sides
mossy fossil
wet locust
predictions for when nere gets a vtuber model?
wet locust
that would make sense.
wet locust
¯_(ツ)_/¯
https://replit.com/@anavingame/story-game-idk I made a story game. it isnt done, and its really just a whole lot of print(), but whatever. can anyone confirm that you can actually play it?
rigid snow
replit 
warped narwhal
https://replit.com/@anavingame/story-game-idk I made a story game. it isnt done,...
Get hacked speedrun any%
wet locust
Get hacked speedrun any%
a mod already checked it
rigid snow
replit <:evilStare:1150846711456084040>
silent cloak
quick condor
It's weird. The more I've been working with AI in this general space, the less confident I am in the Llama 70B assessment for neuro/evil I get.
My gut says Neuro really does feel like Llama 3 especially given the time frame but in the right stack mistral will behave relatively similarly (and will tend to dive more into philosophical like evil).
I know tuning has a lot to do with it and it would make zero sense to develop based on two model familys for each twin but something just doesn't feel right about the Llama assessment.
sick owl
Principal engineer at google openly admitting claude is the better option for coding
Honestly fair play
Saying "we're not there but we're working hard" is much more respectable than "Gemini is basically just as good"
quick condor
Claude has its faults. You really have to make sure to set it's banned or limited use commands or it will ignore instructions in some cases (I find it likes to forget to use cuda libraries and custom start scripts
GPT-5 Codex was rock solid as well back in October but open Ai made some changes and it crashed into a dumpster fire some time in September.
I ran into 3 situations where it fundamentally broke and the third was so bad I wolnt use it anymore
dusty lion
I found Claude sometimes run into something kind like logic momentum, that I can only ask it to cancel and refresh everything I’ve got to give changes on coding logic. And I guess similar things also happened on GPT when I chatted for so long with it on a continuous methodology. I’m not sure this momentum stuff is a common issue on LLM.
Something happened like a inertia
quick condor
I'm interested in what has caused what seems to be chat ML tokenization to leak into evil's vocabulary. It makes me lean towards Llama over Mistral since mistral instructions are different <||> is chat ml but things like endofcomposing/endofconversation aren't standard
sage crag
<a:catEat:1087517801406804069>
slop
nocturne olive
I'm interested in what has caused what seems to be chat ML tokenization to leak ...
I think it's just them being weird
quick condor
I think it's just them being weird
It is a part of it, thing is that it's not something that normally would leak into responses the way it does. The thing that's odd is that if it is them being weird then that's actually more likely to be that they are not using Llama since the token would be stripped when responding (hinting at a different instruct template being used). If it is the valid template then something isn't handling things correctly.
nocturne olive
Yeah the tokens would definitely be stripped if they were normal tokens
tepid plinth
I'm interested in what has caused what seems to be chat ML tokenization to leak ...
i literally saw that on stream
quick condor
<|system|>
system prompt info
<|user|>
User input
<|assistant|>
response
<|endofconversation|>```
If she was using chatml
```<|startofconversation|>
<|system|>
system prompt info
<|user|>
User input
<|assistant|>
response <|endofconversation|>
<|endofconversation|>```
Would end on the first <|endofconversation|>lsp doesnt work 
sage crag
lsp stands for lisp
tender river
me brain shut down without lsp
it ok not need anyway
me become brainless blob
hard raptor
starts programming more intensely
rigid snow
lsp doesnt work <:evilBwaa:1263974044022079578> <:evilBwaa:1263974044022079578>
wontfix
not planned
if need lsp to write code for you go use a lang like typescript and don’t spill your matcha latte on your 2024 macbook pro
tender river
sage crag
patent shard
Whelp, whole back cover just came off of my phone
tender river
Whelp, whole back cover just came off of my phone
spicy pillow?
patent shard
Nah, I pulled at the seams of the phone for years.. noticed it was partially coming apart like 6 months ago, so I stopped
But it was already too late
At least, I hope it's not a spicy pillow
I seriously doubt it
Wait, nah
Cause the cover can go all the way on
It just won't stay on..
wet locust
hatsune miku brazil
brazil 🇧🇷 banana 🍌
banana
no
hatsune miku japan
japan🗾 teal
teal
wet locust
teeeeeaaaal
sage crag
dusty pond
sage crag
wrr
wet locust
teal
sage crag
rigid snow
kni
wet locust
teeeaaaallll
rigid snow
i do not habe k in my name
sage crag
rigid snow
where. k come from
sage crag
neito
rigid snow
who the hell
rigid snow
is that
wet locust
hollow porpl
sage crag
tel
wet locust
teal enemy banana
rigid snow
wet locust
wet locust
program
wet locust
wet locust
noooo
rigid snow
sage crag
dingidngong
wet locust
cacgus is green
rigid snow
bananab bel
sage crag
cacgus is green
how fren if desert
wet locust
ringinining
sage crag
rigid snow
sage crag
sot
rigid snow
ducky banan
wet locust
sage crag
drown
wet locust
teal
sage crag
wet locust
drwn = teal
sage crag
rigid snow
miku brown
wet locust
my nuro
rigid snow
wtf
rigid snow
neuro readinfg this chat
rigid snow
abnana yellow
rigid snow
libcosmic
rigid snow
look interesting
sage crag
you gavw 1 nrw mewssage
tender river
libmlntcandy
sage crag
plemsbe
tender river
tender river
rigid snow
reducing monomorphizatiobn \*wall of code*
grreat
rigid snow
tpyo tpyo tpyo
rigid snow
it gave up
tender river
sage crag
ppeutpet
rigid snow
-pputpr
tender river
rigid snow
tender river
pputpet
sage crag
petpet
tender river
rigid snow
how long until #bajing purge
tender river
sage crag
250g
safe path
sage crag
vano
tender river
rigid snow
this is crazy i predict this
libmlntcand
tender river
rigid snow
👀 🆙
rigid snow
chbees
sage crag
godnrorming
tender river
do backread it
sage crag
tender river
important
sage crag
tpyinh
fluid ledge
very normal programming talk, as usual
sage crag
bles yoj
rigid snow
we are actual nental hopital of neurocord
sage crag
oil
rigid snow
nn is a jok
rigid snow
neuro-sama neuri-sama neuros-sama neurosa-ama neuro-samaa
sage crag
200 00 0 second