programming

[tender river]

(unsurprisingly, or perhaps surprisingly, its not me though)

[mint shuttle]

87.120.191.*** - - [06/Dec/2025 15:13:10] "PROPFIND / HTTP/1.0" 302 -

Bots scanners

[rigid snow]

propfind

what is that

method

webdav

[mint shuttle]

They all trying send http requests on my vds ip, but get redirected on my domain

[sick owl]

Okay, so I feel bad for the dev and all

But why did you run it in the command auto approve mode with full access privileges

[mint shuttle]

cause he a ScriptKiddie

[opaque sigil]

you have to explicitly enable access to files outside of the workspace

hard to feel bad

[olive sable]

let me check my dns

makes sense, id ont actually have a website

its just a minecraft server that doesnt get used

[olive sable]

i doubt the ai zerod the entire drive, so it should still be there

just need to let a program scan the entire drive for some hours

i used to do that to hard drives form old bussiness laptops, the shit you find on there is crazy

[nocturne olive]

LLM moment

[noble zodiac]

having used C++ every day this month due to aoc I'm impressed with how far it has gotten (if you ignore the whole object oriented part of it)

[warped narwhal]

I know your name is meant to be a play on santa, but in Scotland it means something so different that I nearly spat my coffee everywhere

[opaque sigil]

40 years of adding features will do that

[warm river]

what do yall think abt my custom made catpuccin theme for mint

start menu is abit more rounded

[obsidian mantle]

looks nice

[warm river]

should i release it?

[obsidian mantle]

if you want to improve something, this looks a bit imperfect to me

[warm river]

like?

[obsidian mantle]

this isnt alignned

too wide

[warm river]

uh its not my fault actually since i used original mint's css

its mint mistake

[obsidian mantle]

cant change that?

[warm river]

i just modded colors

[obsidian mantle]

ohh

[warm river]

i will

[obsidian mantle]

the colors are nice

[warm river]

i modded libadwaita, gtk4-3, cinnamon (mint as base)

[obsidian mantle]

bottom panel should be distinct but im not sure this probably depends on the taste

[warm river]

idk actually i made it to look like that since uhh it looked cool for me since i wanted make it like start menu is connected to bar

its early version tho so its possible that stuff will change

[obsidian mantle]

ok probably fine then

[nocturne olive]

Mint !!

[obsidian mantle]

as i said its more of taste preference

but non aligned random size icons that i dont like but its minor problem

oh and text is too close to the edge

it will blend in with things behind it

for example if you open 2 of those

[warm river]

i have no idesa how to configure alacritty 🙁

[obsidian mantle]

will look like this

[opaque sigil]

using sed for this is crazy btw

i respect it

[warm river]

i used it since its easy way imo for me since i can easily just lookup for hex colors in text editor and use sed to replace it all

since idont have even to open stuff to edit it

just sed and done

[warm river]

i fixed that start menu corners weren't rounded at all

tho it looks fucking bad with bottom bar

either i will make it to float

or remove rounding

on bottom

[obsidian mantle]

mhm

[warm river]

i made it to float

and lowkey i love it

[wise flax]

yo im trying to start programming is python a good option to start with ?

[nocturne olive]

Eh I would start with something more sensible, though Python is a common language to start with

I personally started with Kotlin
Python has a lot of weird annoyances

[warm river]

yes

i recently discovered https://nim-lang.org/ and i felt in love with it

[olive sable]

oh god

it compiles to both C and js

honestly this just looks like python with extra steps

[glass flower]

compiles to c++.... what does that even mean

[nocturne olive]

I personally hate Python, it sucks to write anything complex in it, the only thing it has going for it is PyTorch for ML

[olive sable]

im assuming it uses c++ as a step inbetween i guess

so nim -> c++ -> machine code

[maiden geyser]

YEARS OF PROGRAMMING yet NO REAL-WORLD USE FOUND for going more underground than ZIG

[olive sable]

L opinion

python is great cuz of how fast it is

to write in i mean

[nocturne olive]

Eh, it's not very fast when I don't know what type something is

[warm river]

it does its job, its faster than python

[glass flower]

but is it worth it? you can write fast in a lot of languages

[olive sable]

wrong mindset, python doesnt really do types

[nocturne olive]

I hate dynamic types they're super annoying

[rough bloom]

just wait until you hear about Haxe

[olive sable]

lets not hear about haxe

[trim valve]

python can be made much more tolerable with a type checker

[rough bloom]

you are now hearing about Haxe

[nocturne olive]

Yeah it isn't a sensible language for sensible people

[olive sable]

it is

[opaque sigil]

based

[glass flower]

i feel like as a beginner not have types is the worst choice ever

[olive sable]

if you cant figure out what type something is based on the variable name, you have bad variable names

imo

[opaque sigil]

ok mr hungary

[olive sable]

?

[opaque sigil]

look up hungarian notation

[olive sable]

imnot following

oh

[warped narwhal]

welcome to win32 api naming

LPCWSTR anyone?

[opaque sigil]

win32 the pinnacle of api design

[olive sable]

that isnt even making the variabelnames sensible so you know what type it is, that is jsut straight up putting the type name in the variable name

[trim valve]

Sam what

why would I do that over just using types properly

[olive sable]

i mean, python has types, you just dont need to specify what type a variable is

[opaque sigil]

are you even programming if your compiler isn't showing you your types via a text file

[olive sable]

im saying not to use hungrian notation

?

[trim valve]

in my defence

I woke up 20 minutes ago

[olive sable]

what im saying is, for python. if i have a variable named "distance" what could the type possebly be?
its not a fucking string is it?

[maiden geyser]

it could be

[nocturne olive]

Well the code editor doesn't know, so the name is useless

[olive sable]

if you genuinely name a variable storing a string "distance" you're dead to me

[glass flower]

float,int maybe a vector

[trim valve]

😭

distance is a scalar what

[olive sable]

float and int could both be an answer, but python doesn't do any distinction between those so having them be different wouldn't matter. vector tho, you're dead to me

[trim valve]

idk a string could be reasonable

what if you're writing a cli tool that takes in distances like "3km"

[glass flower]

on a 2d grid a vector can be like x and y scalar distances. for like pathfinding or something

[nocturne olive]

Python does differentiate int and float

It just doesn't enforce it anywhere so you end up mixing types and potentially causing code flow that wasn't intentional

[olive sable]

then put list in the name, cuz its gonna be distance in the x axis, and distance in the y axis

"distance" by itslef should always be 1 number

[trim valve]

this is what stuff like pylance is for

[glass flower]

list if i see a variable called distance_list i would think it has like 50 distances and not xy

[nocturne olive]

Yeah variable names don't mean anything
The actual type of the object does

[olive sable]

then call it gridDistance is dont care.

[glass flower]

gridDistance can still mean both tho

[olive sable]

not in my code

[glass flower]

and if you have it as a vector you'll know

[maiden geyser]

why not distances

[olive sable]

fair enough

that one i can accept

[olive sable]

luckily python doesn't have vectors

[glass flower]

+1 reasons python is bad

[nocturne olive]

Python is just a pain

[olive sable]

if you cant code without vectors thats a skill issue

lists do the job just fine

[trim valve]

[noble zodiac]

????

[opaque sigil]

what vectors are we talking about here

[olive sable]

python

[noble zodiac]

python lists are the same as c++ vectors. What is your point?

[glass flower]

i mean... most languages don't have vectors in the sense

its a math library thing

we were talking about a Vector2 basically

idk i can't really use a language anymore if it doesn't have types

[olive sable]

the point is that earlier we said lists, and then someone said what about vecotrs, and now im saying that python doesn't have vecotrs cuz it has lists

thats the point

[glass flower]

holy misspelling

[olive sable]

you can argue to me about this all you want, im still 100% convinced if you cant at least guess what type something is based on the variable name, then you have a bad variable name

[noble zodiac]

if you yourself wrote it within the last 30 days maybe

but what might be obvious to you can be a riddle to someone else

[glass flower]

but isn't it still better to just have another thing looking over it? like something to enforce it regardless

[trim valve]

I have just come to the conclusion that inlay hints work for me

it's a shame that there isn't a super practical way to get them in stuff like GitHub but meh

[rough bloom]

also type hints + type checkers
requires extra setup since type checking is not part of the language itself, but the tooling does exist

[olive sable]

if its a riddle to someone else, and they cant figure it out form context clues either in the code, then its a bad variable name. idk what to tell you.
"size" should always be a number.

[noble zodiac]

those are the most basic of examples. Just doing the small aoc tasks would already break the whole thing because you have to transform between data types

[opaque sigil]

this is why functional programming is superior, no need to name as many variables

[glass flower]

what about person.gender? is it a string,enum,number how can you guess from that

[olive sable]

idk

im unsure of how it works irl, nevermind in code

def not a number tho

[glass flower]

but with types you'd atleast know what it is and how to use it

[hard raptor]

If you wanna be inclusive string if not, just do like
-1 = male
0 = nb
1 = female
2 = other

[olive sable]

id do enum if we have presets

[hard raptor]

But you could also enum those

[olive sable]

ye

[glass flower]

-1

[hard raptor]

Nah bro i identify as the number 1

[olive sable]

i could make a joke rn but i dont think i should

[hard raptor]

Good call

Almost went to crush up some belgian waffles infront of you

[olive sable]

wow

insane threat

[hard raptor]

Or to straighten out your roads

[olive sable]

thats something we want tho

[hard raptor]

Oh ok

I'll make em even bumpier

[olive sable]

do you think we have bad roads for the love of the game?

[hard raptor]

Of course.. belgium has more than enough money to slowly begin fixing them, yet they don't

[olive sable]

we're actually in a fuckton of debt lol

[hard raptor]

So are your neighbours up north.. yet they somehow still manage

(For any bystanders.. this isn't serious)

[olive sable]

we're roughly 650B in debt, yall only 490B

[hard raptor]

Okay, so 160B difference

That's nothing

[olive sable]

i think to repave an entire country properly would be 50B or so

[hard raptor]

Maybe your government shouldn't let the dutch people build one of the biggest music festivals on your soil

[olive sable]

whjy not?

we love music festevials

[hard raptor]

Yeah

But

They cost you a fuckton of money

[olive sable]

but it brings business to local companies, and its just the government that gets the debt

we're all wealthy

[hard raptor]

K true

Erhmm

[olive sable]

we actually dont even like our government

[hard raptor]

Yeah i wouldn't really want tomorrowland to relocate anyways

We need a different strategy

[olive sable]

[hard raptor]

I honestly miss ADE

Now i have to wait until next october

[olive sable]

amsterdam dance event?

[hard raptor]

Yeh

[olive sable]

i like how you felt the need to clarify we're not actually arguing

fijne sinterklaas btw

[hard raptor]

Tanks

[hard raptor]

Yeah idk, i had multiple occasions of people actually trying to break the "argument" apart while me and the other person were just having fun

[olive sable]

[amber fractal]

I am False

in other words, I am not real

[olive sable]

numbered genders when NaN walks in

[rigid snow]

hi proframiing

[maiden geyser]

can be a dict or a list

[rigid snow]

that’s what. nonbinary means

by definition

i think ???

[olive sable]

i thought non-binary just meant not male or female cuz they don't feel like either

idk

im interpreting NaN as not a gender

[sage crag]

wrr

wrrr

[olive sable]

hi konii

[opaque sigil]

but NaN is a number so it has to also be a gender

[amber fractal]

That one is NB, idk why it was zero

Infinity is gender fluid (real)

This enum sucks

[olive sable]

NaN is specifically not a number tho

[opaque sigil]

don't make me pull out the ieee spec

[amber fractal]

NaN is a valid state of a float tho

[opaque sigil]

i'm lazy

[olive sable]

i dont care if it programatically works

its named "not a number"

[opaque sigil]

but it's defined as a number named "not a number"

[olive sable]

im gonna kill the ieee

[amber fractal]

Surely after the millionith floating point standard it'll work

[olive sable]

it should be a value that the bits can be, without being a number

[amber fractal]

That is literally NaN

[olive sable]

toast said it was a number tho

[amber fractal]

This is why we have to have a function to check for NaN instead of comparing to it

[olive sable]

is it really 16 mil unusable values?

that seems like bad design

[amber fractal]

Thread said it was for debugging that never happened

use the rest of the useless bits as a trace

[olive sable]

honestly at this point it feels like so many things that are bad design have just stuck around from old times

and we cant start again cuz than we'll have a situation with the extra standart

xkcd 927

[ember pumice]

man how do u guys do allat while ur eyes are getting cooked

[olive sable]

wdym?

[opaque sigil]

my eyes are already fucked

[ember pumice]

the monitor is bad

[olive sable]

i just blink on occasiuon to moisten the surface

[opaque sigil]

i too like to consciously blink

[maiden geyser]

i like to use va or ips monitors instead of infrared lamps

[olive sable]

i use qd ips instead of laser projector directly into my eyes

[glass flower]

i'm looking at my monitor for 12-18 hours a day for the past 15 years. and i got perfectly fine vision

[ember pumice]

hello test test

[amber fractal]

Need to look away for a bit, can't stare at the monitor all day without rest

[ember pumice]

test

[olive sable]

hi

lmoa

[amber fractal]

test recireved

[ember pumice]

tz

ty

[olive sable]

my vision is not 20/20, but its like 18/20

[ember pumice]

are u familair with blue filters

[glass flower]

yes. and i don't use them. i don't like the color shift

[olive sable]

its just hard to read text at a distance of 40m cuz my eyes' focus is slightly off

[amber fractal]

I feel like the monitor is dying

[olive sable]

im red green colourblind, if i then also get rid of the blue i have nothing left

might aswell jsut turn the monitor off at that point

[amber fractal]

no contrast

[maiden geyser]

check out this ruby i got

[amber fractal]

This monitor setup is so jank

[olive sable]

https://tenor.com/view/adventure-time-fin-fin-the-human-jake-jake-the-dog-gif-17234778

[amber fractal]

software jank only this time

I do not recommend overlapping monitors, I'm just not bothering to move them due to scaling bug

[trim valve]

overlapping monitors is such a Linux feature I love it

[amber fractal]

wayland scales coords, removing them causes these two to overlap

x11 just straight up displays stuff in both due to x11's all desktops only being a single buffer

this is not that

If I spark the x11 vs wayland fight over infomation again this week, I am just vanishing

Tiled windows display only on one monitor, and floating windows display on all of them because of the dragging between monitors behavior

simple as that

[olive sable]

i dont get it but im sure its cool

[amber fractal]

I'm still fighting a hyprland update to fix the inital cause of this

Might as well continue trying to get the damn thing to update

Don't need to deal with these side effects more than I have to

First time seeing those warnings on overlapping monitors, must have just been added

updated

(now to see if it solves the bug)

Finally I can see again

I no longer need the laptop to be a 1x scaling

due to certian toolkits doubling the scale again

[rigid snow]

so would make sense to map not a number to “not a gender” in a table of gender which nonbinary by definition is

[amber fractal]

so 2x scale became 4x but the UI input was still rendered as 2x

and only the top left would be rendered

[olive sable]

fair enough

[rigid snow]

meow

[olive sable]

[amber fractal]

[amber fractal]

I have traded a scaling bug for a ghost cursor bug

[amber fractal]

Man, I've gotten so used to 1x scaling that it is hard to go back

Honestly though, I think I might just not

time to experiment with other scaling factors

I at least know I ain't going back to 2x on a 13in 1440p monitor

Thank you me from an hour ago for switching the last of the configuration to variables

So anyways, I am much better off

(one of these days I will make a monitor mapping script for the damn touch input, today however is not that day)

[olive sable]

when people ask if the chicken or the egg came first, do they mean a chicken egg, or just egg as a concept?

cuz eggs pre-date chickens by a lot

[trim valve]

which came first, the mammal or the egg

wait no

[olive sable]

egg

[trim valve]

not mammal

[amber fractal]

I think it is chicken egg, because otherwise chicken believers have no legs to stand on (they are inside the egg)

[olive sable]

the first creatures that went on land used eggs

[trim valve]

which came first, the egg layer or the egg

[rigid snow]

omg time so fast

i think neither came firsts not ever. the chicken

[olive sable]

an egg contains a chicken, so it would have to be at the same time

i think thats how it works

[trim valve]

where do you draw the line of chicken vs other animal

what if the chicken has a genetic mutation

[amber fractal]

That was also my own line of thinking

[rigid snow]

i think bird fists

[amber fractal]

it isn't even a biological problem, it is just an identification problem

[rigid snow]

first

[olive sable]

i think its something genetic differnce where you need to draw the line, so the mother would be a different animal and thus that egg would be a different animal's egg containing a chicken

[trim valve]

thank you google

[olive sable]

so the chicken came first

[rigid snow]

a

[olive sable]

before the chicken egg

but after the concept of a egg

[amber fractal]

I think your final answer is inversed from your logic

[trim valve]

-# The place of phylogeny and cladistics in Evo-Devo research - Scientific Figure on ResearchGate. Available from: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Ordering-the-evolution-of-characters-Setting-the-chicken-in-its-phylogenetic-context_fig5_8892372 [accessed 6 Dec 2025]

[olive sable]

checken egg would have to be an egg laid by a chicken

[rigid snow]

i am not smart enough to understand

[olive sable]

so if the parent of chicken laid an egg, it would not be a chicken egg

it would be a non-chicken egg containing a chicken

[amber fractal]

if it was just any egg, then it would be egg first

[olive sable]

ye

so chronologically its egg -> chicken -> chicken egg

[amber fractal]

[rigid snow]

[amber fractal]

The whole debate is just because people are not specific enough about the criteria so both eggs are talked about as if they are the same

(here before the christian answer of god created a chicken as is so chicken was first in that case)

[rigid snow]

why debate

let’s unite

we like

iuuh

[amber fractal]

[rigid snow]

computer

[olive sable]

there is no debate

we all agree

[olive sable]

this is the correct and objective truth

[rigid snow]

still listening

discord spy ing

[olive sable]

jsut turn off your phone's mic acces

mine can do that at least

[iron sierra]

so if yorue talking about chicken eggs the chicken is first but if youre talking abotu eggs in general egg is first

[olive sable]

yes

cuz eggs were used by creatures that weren't even able to walk yet

fish and stuff

[iron sierra]

i always knew that but i never knew about teh chicken egg thing

[warped narwhal]

I successfully build Linux from scratch

how long did it take?

... lets not talk about it

[visual pawn]

the answer is that there is no line that can be drawn and there was no generation that suddenly was a chicken

[olive sable]

wrong

im drawing the line

[visual pawn]

because that definition of species doesn't work to answer that question

[opaque sigil]

oh so that's why you were running the gcc test suite, i see

[young plover]

I can usually build a whole distro in under 2 hours
lmao

[visual pawn]

was it worth it

[opaque sigil]

time for BLFS

[warped narwhal]

yes. I feel like I understand my computer so much more after it.

[warped narwhal]

it never ends does it. (I hope to get to GLFS eventually)

[opaque sigil]

it never ends

[olive sable]

to be exact, the difference between the modern chicken and its ancestor the wild chicken, is domestication. it has a different phenotype too like reduced flight ability and increased egg laying. also has a smaller brain

there is no exact line we can point to, but there will have been a specific chicken that was genetically different enough to be called a new species

we just dont know who and when

[visual pawn]

well, there was no chicken that was like, suddenly more genetically different than its parents

enough to be called a chicken

[olive sable]

there was

thats the whole point of genetic differences

[visual pawn]

like, there was no chicken suddenly unable to breed with its parents' generation

[olive sable]

thats not exactly what defines a species

donkeys can breed with horses

[visual pawn]

yeah but there's still no real line otherwise, hence why the whole idea of species classification is criticized

and why the species problem is a thing in biology

[olive sable]

the change in genome is gradual, but definitely quantifiable

[visual pawn]

with some outright declaring that species aren't real

quantifiable but it's an issue of classification

[olive sable]

i can agree with that viewpoint, but id still say chicken eggs came after the chicken

it mainly depends on if you see the egg as the one of the layer, or of what it contains

[visual pawn]

I'd still say the answer is that a chicken is undefinable for this purpose, like how a river is obviously a river and an ocean is obviously an ocean, but where exactly does a river become an ocean

[trim valve]

motivation for a programming project is hitting again

but no idea what I'd program

[olive sable]

i also have the motivation

but im 3D modeling feet rn

[trim valve]

[visual pawn]

as you do

[olive sable]

if you 3D model an entire human you do eventually have to make the feet you know

[trim valve]

i mean

[visual pawn]

are you doing the internals too?

[olive sable]

no

[trim valve]

not if they're wearing shoes

[visual pawn]

I was gonna say I had to 3D model a whole bunch of a specific organ

but the server thought that organ was NSFW

[olive sable]

im making the base for a bunch of different characters who can be wearing different outfits potentially, so i need the feet to exist

[visual pawn]

apparently a certain internal male organ (not the external one) is NSFW

[olive sable]

erm

[visual pawn]

I do cancer research so it involves modeling the organ that men get exams for

[olive sable]

went from thats kinda weird to oh its cancer research

[visual pawn]

I get that a lot

[trim valve]

scope creep has once again made an idea dangerously unviable before even writing a line of code

[olive sable]

jsut dont creep your scope

i say on month 5 of what was supposed to be a week long game jam

[trim valve]

it went from "I should stream programming" to "I should make an AI play peggle, but I'd also move my PC to linux and have to write a mod for peggle and also learn how to do machine learning"

[olive sable]

have you considered not doing al that

[trim valve]

but just programming is barely interesting

I need my subway surfers

[visual pawn]

just vibe then

leave the regrets for the future

[olive sable]

i feel liek this is jsut

[visual pawn]

although learning to train a model is actually an afternoon's time if you have basic python knowledge

[olive sable]

"thinking baout programming" :D
"programming" Xd

[trim valve]

😭

[trim valve]

this is a dangerous statement for me

[visual pawn]

you can get something workable in 50-100 lines of python

[trim valve]

I probably need to sit down and do a basic ass tutorial

because every time I overcompliate and get nowhere

[visual pawn]

I'd honestly just ask an LLM to put together a very simple training script for a model with pytorch

[trim valve]

uuugh

I really dislike using LLMs for anything

[visual pawn]

for a basic task (like classifying images between two categories)

[trim valve]

like, they're neat tools

[trim valve]

I don't like using them

[visual pawn]

well you could also find an example on github for one but

[trim valve]

I've never had an llm that has made me want to use it

[visual pawn]

they don't really mess up something as simple as that

[trim valve]

it either:

• makes me feel like I am being lazy
• generates useless code

[visual pawn]

it's when you try to do the entire stack using vibe coding that it all goes wrong

[olive sable]

i use LLMs as debuggers, not coders

[stray dragon]

^

[visual pawn]

I tend to use them by isolating them to very specific tasks that I can unit test

I can trust them to write a function because I'll be able to tell if it messes up

but I won't trust them to string functions together

[olive sable]

i still dont really get what a unit test is tbh

[nocturne olive]

LLMs are idiots when it comes to literally anything

[visual pawn]

just testing an isolated part of a program

like a single function

so you can treat it like a black box after

[night ginkgo]

Hi

[olive sable]

Hi

[night ginkgo]

How are you doing

[olive sable]

im doing good

just a bit tired

[trim valve]

idk

[night ginkgo]

Ohh sorry

[trim valve]

I want to know what the code I'm writing does

[olive sable]

ye

[trim valve]

if I know how AI training works, sure

[visual pawn]

yeah but you do read any code that is generated

[trim valve]

I am not writing a magic ai training function

[night ginkgo]

Alright what are you doing for fun

[trim valve]

[olive sable]

i feel like giving inputs the code was never designed to handle will obviously have the chance of producing errors

[trim valve]

I would really rather not add unchecked stuff to my code

also like, I have been gaslight one too many times by LLMs to trust them to teach

[visual pawn]

well, you would be the one doing the checking

[olive sable]

i make games. or well, that is the end goal

[trim valve]

idk I sorta refuse to use LLMs for most stuff out of principal

I do projects because I'm interested in them

[visual pawn]

but in any case this is an example of a very simple classifier: https://github.com/pskrunner14/resnet-classifier

[trim valve]

not because I want clout

[visual pawn]

you just need to look at train.py, model.py, and predict.py (to actually run it)

[trim valve]

(or well, clout is probably there, just secondary)

[olive sable]

while debugging ai has given me like example code to use instead, and i have used those before

so i guess that is technically vibe coded code

but i wouldnt consider myself a vibe-coder

[visual pawn]

eh, I only really consider it vibe coding if you never look at the code

[olive sable]

fair

[visual pawn]

having cursor write you a regular expression or a simple function because you don't want to do it yourself isn't really vibe-coding to me so long as you look at what it wrote

I treat it like having a really knowledgeable but really dumb phd student working for me

doing intern work

[olive sable]

uhm, this kinda looks like a bot

@safe path their messages seem suspiciously repetitive, kill time

[ivory plinth]

murder

execution

[olive sable]

even if it isnt a bot, seems to be artist scam

[ivory plinth]

instantly friend req'd me

[safe path]

ogie

[night ginkgo]

Ohh okay

[night ginkgo]

How

[olive sable]

wow

[ivory plinth]

glueless or scammer

[olive sable]

post mortem investigation, maybe i jumped the gun, but it is still suspicious

[ivory plinth]

ah yes

[olive sable]

if they appeal their ban or use an alt, my bad if you werent a bot

just kinda looked like chatgpt generated text with all the emojis, and sometimes there were just the same message

[amber fractal]

what happend in here

[olive sable]

person that acted kinda like an npc, but may not actually have been a bot

needs further citation

[rigid snow]

eeeeeeee

[olive sable]

their only mistake was having their 2nd message immediately be promoting themselves as an artist that does 2D and 3D and takes commissions i guess

[rigid snow]

i may or may not be undre the influence today

i’m sorry

[opaque sigil]

it's like 5am go tf to bed

[rigid snow]

i’m currently sitting uhh like

[olive sable]

erm actually

[rigid snow]

beside an apartment door

[olive sable]

it is nearly 3am

[jagged turtle]

lmao what

[olive sable]

and im in the middle of connecting toes to the main body

[rigid snow]

because a friend forgot we were supposed to come back and closed his apartment

[opaque sigil]

[rigid snow]

we are probably gonna sleep here

LMAO

[olive sable]

bro is drunk enough to not care about sleeping outside

i wanne have what he's having

[rigid snow]

it’s warm enough here

[olive sable]

alcohol creates a false sense of warmth

you're just not realizing how cold it is

[rigid snow]

is like 20 celsius here

i’m inside

a building

[olive sable]

oh

[rigid snow]

just not in the apartment

[olive sable]

i see

stay safe and all that

[rigid snow]

ye police state and all that

mods pls spare me

[olive sable]

oh ims tupid

nevermind

im gonna jsut ignore i was wrong

[jagged turtle]

what

im so confused what you found wrong

[olive sable]

dont worry about it

[amber fractal]

erm

[jagged turtle]

erm

[amber fractal]

[mighty thorn]

Average #programming conversion

[olive sable]

you see, if they dont know what im wrong about i dont have to explain myself

[rigid snow]

i don’t even know what is happening anymore lol

this is genuinely a fever dream experience

we have asked a random convenience store worker to boil us some water to make instant noodles

and it worked

[olive sable]

you're getting the main character of an rpg experience

walk to convenince store, press a, get boiled water

[hearty notch]

stay safe

[trim valve]

nixos dual boot installed

now uh, to figure out how to make it boot into windows by default

[opaque sigil]

grub?

[trim valve]

yep

[young plover]

On the same drive? masochism

[trim valve]

different drives lol

[opaque sigil]

does os-prober even detect windows on a different drive

[trim valve]

I get it as an option

and it lets me boot into windows

[opaque sigil]

oh then you can just set boot.loader.grub.default to whichever index it is in the options, i assume it's probably 2nd right

[trim valve]

it's at the end of the list

does the index remain stable as more nixos revisions appear?

or is it different in grub idr

[opaque sigil]

i'm honestly not sure, since the previous revisions get put in their own submenu

[trim valve]

o yeah they do on grub

[opaque sigil]

may as well just try i guess, worst case it doesn't auto boot

oh you can just set it to the title/id of the entry apparently too

assuming nixos just passes it as is to grub via GRUB_DEFAULT

[trim valve]

hm

I tried that (at the suggestion of Google ai at first)

no luck on my first attempt 😭

[opaque sigil]

there's always the option to disable os-prober and create the windows entry yourself and then point it to that one

[trim valve]

id rather keep my magic for now

😔 my cursed fix didn't work

[opaque sigil]

did you use the entire entry name as it's shown in the grub config or just part of it

[trim valve]

(ignore the double quotes in the configuration.nix, I was testing something - it still doesn't work without them)

wait

why is it a different nvme drive

ok after fixing that it now boots to the correct choice selected in grub

I sure hope I don't have silly nondeterministic drive names

[opaque sigil]

extraEntries = ''
  menuentry 'Windows' --class windows --class os --id windows {
      search --fs-uuid --set=root 0CF9-FFEE
      chainloader /efi/Microsoft/Boot/bootmgfw.efi
  }
'';
default = "windows"

this is what i had, might be worth if you're worried about the drive names

[trim valve]

hm

I can just copy what my grub has

I'd just like something that's slightly less reliant on it idk

something something reproducible builds

though I guess its a tradeoff between hardcoding my grub entries and autodetecting them

[amber fractal]

I'm not even using a vpn

[trim valve]

yeah nixos.wiki is like the wrong site or something

[opaque sigil]

don't ddos the wiki

[trim valve]

idr the specifics

https://wiki.nixos.org

[opaque sigil]

unofficial wiki

more useful at times

[trim valve]

[amber fractal]

yeah, just got fooled by first result

[trim valve]

its incredible how well a pc runs when you have nothing installed

[amber fractal]

I recognize what it is now, and yeah the unoffical wiki is pretty useful

[trim valve]

ok sunshine is having some slightly funky behaviour

[rigid snow]

programmer goes outside
"omg are you ok stay safe"

i’m home btw

for everyone concerned

[trim valve]

also some quirky tailscale stuff

[rigid snow]

blah blah tailscale blah

selfhost everything

[trim valve]

so true

[trim valve]

currently it won't let me connect if the pc is locked

which is funky

...I don't actually know how to approach that one

maybe I can just be lazy and make sunshine force unlock?

but even then it seems to refuse to let me do anything with the device from the lock screen

hmm

I am very sus of it being a user service

despite me not wanting it to run only when I'm logged in

ok it works fine if I lock, just not sign out

there's got to be a good way to handle this

on the other hand

its nearly 5am

reddit has the wise solution of "auto login then lock"

[hard raptor]

That's non-binary

[maiden geyser]

lebron++

[olive sable]

Okay

[olive sable]

[olive sable]

Original message was deleted

[maiden geyser]

bro wiped but left not

[trim valve]

@opaque sigil yeah nixos keeps switch around which nvme is which

gonna just haddcode the entry at this point

[trim valve]

I am not getting the authentic linux experience

how do I wake my display on wayland, from the terminal?
"don't use wayland"
"run <command>" (doesn't work)
"don't let your screen lock"

[trim valve]

why is the seemingly best solution "simulate the mouse moving"

because just turning on the displays breaks kde power management

[olive sable]

i dont understand

wake display from the terminal? you cant see the terminal if the dispaly is off

[trim valve]

I use remote desktop a lot

[olive sable]

oh, ok that makes sense

[trim valve]

so I need my display to turn on

or well, I can make a virtual display I just want an MVP first

[warm river]

guys what should i run on my homelab

[olive sable]

protein folding simulations? idk

[nocturne olive]

Invent a new vocal synthesizer

[mighty thorn]

Who up gramming they pro right now?

[olive sable]

im 3D modeling fingies rn

[maiden geyser]

220 is trying to tempt the lion

[tough dove]

Why does ChatGPT seem better to me than Gemini, yet score of it much lower?

[ancient forge]

hi guys. Does anybody have an info about Neuro's params?

[olive sable]

give us a sec

we have a graph

i guess this isnt really exactly what neuro has, but for most of it we dont know

[ancient forge]

interesting, thank you!

I created an multi-agent system locally and simply wanted to compare my AI to Neuro at that point 😄

[rigid snow]

looks nice, i wonder who designed it

[olive sable]

iggly

[rigid snow]

[ancient forge]

does anybody here also run their own AI's?

[olive sable]

some do ye

[ancient forge]

fck yea, glad to see it

[nocturne olive]

I just make vocal synthesizers

[ancient forge]

i'm interested in how did they integrated long term memory (like SQL database or weights alteration in real time?) and other agents (like "vision" agent, STT agent e.t.c.)

[ancient forge]

about vision:

the best I can propose is to use VLM agent (like qwen3-vl-4b) and connect it to LLM as an agent with tool call. LLM, while getting an image [absolute path] calls VLM agent to analyze the image. Then proceeds the output

[olive sable]

im not the graph guy

@amber fractal

[silver heath]

[olive sable]

[silver heath]

how the hecc does one make an LLM that holds conversation

like

i tried ollama and was like

[olive sable]

you mean to make it say things by itself?

[silver heath]

yeah

like how neuro does

[olive sable]

honestly idk. i guess have some sort of input stream still

[silver heath]

now that i think about it she gets responses from chat all the time no

[olive sable]

ye that too

[silver heath]

so theres a constant flow of information

[hearty notch]

there's probably a pretty thorough system prompt or memory corpus in the first place too tho

[nocturne olive]

An LLM is a text completion machine, nothing more, you just trick the text completion machine into completing natural conversations

[silver heath]

👍

[silver heath]

so basically just train a model for that instead of using a pretrained one

[nocturne olive]

Eh

No you can use an instruction tuned stock model

You can't really pretrain your own model on your own system

Training an LLM takes stupid compute amounts

You just need a good prompting format

[silver heath]

[ancient forge]

Neuro simply has chat input

[olive sable]

not really i don't think

it has a lot more than that

[ancient forge]

nah. Without input model cannot proceed output

[olive sable]

besides chat input she has vision and vc tho

[obsidian mantle]

cannot llm by default emit infinite stream of words

[ancient forge]

simply agents (vision one and STT + TTS)

[obsidian mantle]

i thought thats what it does. just wire its own input back so it proceeds?

[olive sable]

oh you mean chat as in text, not chat as in the twitch chat

[obsidian mantle]

or maybe it gives her some prompt like "go on"

[ancient forge]

nope. If that was true, then Neuro couldn't have any conversation with Vedal

[obsidian mantle]

if no other input

ok yeye it has to be interrupted

but

[ancient forge]

Nauro has agent that scraps chat

[obsidian mantle]

maybe this?

she doesnt need chat to talk ininitely

[rough bloom]

autoregressive
the input for the calculation of the next token is always just the stream of preceding tokens

[ancient forge]

no matter the prompt, LLM cannot generate outputs on its own

[obsidian mantle]

huh

it literally generates words based on previous words

(tokens)

i mean im not an expert but that was my impression

[ancient forge]

I mean LLM cannot give output without input. It can't just treat its own output as input

[obsidian mantle]

why not

[ancient forge]

because arch limitations

[obsidian mantle]

of course its trimmed

to some limit

[olive sable]

what if i feed random noise into it when there is no input

[obsidian mantle]

last 100 tokens for example

so it continues the flow of tokens

• some kind of memory he made

[rough bloom]

anything on top of that is just post-training, usually with a chat template
you can force a post-trained model to continuously generate new outputs by itself without human input, but it'll usually quickly go off the rails relatively quickly because that's just not in the training dataset

[ancient forge]

then it will proceed output. Even noise is considered as input

[rough bloom]

what limitation exactly?

[ancient forge]

transformers one

[olive sable]

i pressed bake in blender now the entire window is black and my ram is suffering

[obsidian mantle]

oh maybe if its fine tuned llm she gets that massive "you are neurosama twitch ai streamer ... (500 words essay) ..." before each prompt

maybe not before each

[ancient forge]

any LLM today is based on transformers

[rough bloom]

then no, no such limitation exists

[obsidian mantle]

transformers sort of encode current environment/topic, right?

[ancient forge]

so u wanna say Neuro can go into loop with her own outputs?

[obsidian mantle]

it will not be repeating loop (maybe it will if you leave her for 100 years like that)

[rough bloom]

if the training data allows for it, sure

[olive sable]

oh its not happy

[ancient forge]

training data only gives weights to the model, but autogeneration of outputs is archetecture thing

unrelated to weights

imo Neuro uses some scrapper agent for chat while streaming, so she has permament input

[obsidian mantle]

she can work without chat

and without someone talking to her

[ancient forge]

hm. Then it becomes interesting

[rough bloom]

yeah, but the training dataset limits what a particular pretrained model is useful for

[ancient forge]

then it's weights + Vedal's own arch for autogeneration of outputs

[rough bloom]

why own arch

(most) LLMs are fundamentally autoregressive

[ancient forge]

because making LLM generating something on its own is not something generic?

[rough bloom]

but it is though

a base model does precisely that

[obsidian mantle]

oh actually sometimes she falls asleep.
vedal said its when "there is no output for a long time" and "she gets poked when it happens"

[ancient forge]

never seen a thing with LLM which can generate outputs without any input

[rough bloom]

that capability is just usually somewhat trained out of the model during post-training because it's not very useful as a tool

[ancient forge]

then Neuro can have inputs from agents. Like, OCR agent autodetects -> gives input -> LLM (Neuro) generates output

something like this scheme

[obsidian mantle]

maybe

are you just wondering or plan to do something on your own about that

[warped narwhal]

only 145w at 100%? do you have it in eco mode?

[ancient forge]

I alredy did that with my LLM (agentic input)

[olive sable]

tdp is 105W, this is already PBO. this is quite literally already 1.5X as much power as it normally uses

[obsidian mantle]

if you have a problem with "no input" you can probably put there some observer who gives it "go on" input when it stops

[rough bloom]

do you know how an LLM is trained? as in, without any base model, only from data?
I'm not gonna explain, just curious

[ancient forge]

never had enough resources to do post-training, but as far as I know we simply give model dataset, some control agent (another LLM, for example) and model alters weights based on reward function

if I misunderstood question - sorry

[rigid snow]

deepseek v3.2 when given a completely empty string as input generated a chat template assistant message with this as content:

你好！👋 看起来你发了一个空消息，可能是误触发送了，或者还在思考要问什么？ \n\n我在这里随时准备帮助你，无论是： \n- 解答问题 \n- 写作辅助 \n- 学习指导 \n- 日常聊天 \n\n如果你有任何想问的，随时告诉我吧！ 😊
which is something about me sending an empty message

which is weird because no message is there

[ancient forge]

maybe, but it's difficult. Agent needs to autodetect no input for X period of time and send "go on" to LLM. Too diff imo

[obsidian mantle]

seems pretty simple to me

i mean .. architecturaly

in vacuum

[warm river]

i found new shit to mess around

[obsidian mantle]

you will need to put this agent between you and ai, so it can see entire flow of input/output

[ancient forge]

orchestrator of some sorts, yea

[obsidian mantle]

it relays your inputs to ai and then relays outputs back to you

and can poke ai on its own when needed

[rough bloom]

post-training is only one step of the process, and what you're describing is specifically reinforcement learning, which is basically another sub-step of post-training
idk where your confidence on this topic comes from when you seemingly don't know pre-training or self-attention

[obsidian mantle]

with common timer or whatever logic you want

[ancient forge]

simply never seen something like what you're describing, that's why i'm confident

I mean yea, it can be, but autoregression makes model kinda stuck in the loop

[rigid snow]

nvm this is wrong it did wrap the input in a message

[ancient forge]

it's not effective

[rigid snow]

i did figure out how to disable it though

here's what deepseek v3.2 has to say with an empty string as context:

oops bad formatting

[rough bloom]

ye, this is what's likely to happen if your model isn't built to work without input (which is practically all non-base-models, because it's a stupid feature), it's a training data issue
though you also have stuff like presence or repetition penalties to help with this

[true hemlock]

its just basic loop. for neuro it works well because there's constant input from people and twitch chat

[rigid snow]

seems to be hallucinating a prompt

[true hemlock]

glueless

[ancient forge]

well, that makes sense. But idk if Vedal has such a thing on Neuro: to train model for that (a medium one at least, 15b for example) needs absurd amount of compute powers

[rough bloom]

you don't need to train from scratch, there are pretrained base models available for free

it's also not that expensive as long as you're not training GPT-6

[obsidian mantle]

there should be a lot of auxiliary stuff around neuro which makes her look not repetitive

memory and stuf

[olive sable]

oh i know why its takign ages to calcualte, its doing 250 frames while i only wanted 1

[rigid snow]

still frame video

[rough bloom]

and as others already said, Neuro doesn't actually work without input
quite the opposite, there's always input available from chat and other sources

[true hemlock]

also people kept misunderstood reinforcement learning
the model never learn something new with most popular RL method, it just learns to favor specific outputs that is more preferable from the feedback most of the time

[ancient forge]

then I was right and Neuro simply has constant input from chat at least

[true hemlock]

there's absolutely no reason to pretrain a whole raw model yourself unless if you're a giant tech corpa with billions at hand
pretraining just form semantics in the model. pretrained model gives pretty good enough starting point for finetuning

[rough bloom]

it does have large benefits for math and alignment AFAIK
but yeah, you can argue that it just brings out capabilities of the pretrained model (as does most post-training in general)

[obsidian mantle]

vedal sometimes disables chat input.
and then if she has no voice input from whoever shes talking to, she is left with no input (i think). but she still goes on

[true hemlock]

doesn't eliminate the fact that you can actually inference an LLM from starting tokens that technically isn't an input

although the llm will start outputting random topic that way lmao

[nocturne olive]

That's literally how LLMs work

[ancient forge]

Neuro doesn't do that

[rough bloom]

no, you said that a model can't work without inputs, which is false
Neuro obviously has some input all the time, but debating Neuros architectural details is stupid, because we just don't know any (other than relatively safe assumptions, like being some combo of LLM + TTS)

[true hemlock]

doesn't have to be "neuro doesn't do that"

any llm including neuro's can be just inferenced with no input token

[obsidian mantle]

are you sure

[true hemlock]

and it will spew out random topic that it auto regress through

[rough bloom]

possible but very stupid, waste of money unless you're training a SOTA LLM with capabilities beyond what's freely available

[ancient forge]

I'm abserving Neuro from YT for a good amount of time

[obsidian mantle]

ok that counts

wanted to clarify just in case

[rough bloom]

and even then you're gonna be better off with continual pretraining or other augmentations

[true hemlock]

function calling on pretrained models are pretty well generalized aswell so finetuning works well for that either

[rough bloom]

do base models have function calling now?

they shouldn't even have the special tokens to do that

[true hemlock]

huh, iirc they have at least a few special tokens

[ancient forge]

you're about tool use or what?

[true hemlock]

or im confusing it with formatting token because im pretty damn sure i remembered seeing basic format tokens on pretrained base models

[rough bloom]

Deepseek V3 has just bos, eos and pad (and a whole bunch of placeholders)

[rigid snow]

i’ve heard about models being pretrained on tool calls

grok 4 is one

[true hemlock]

the placeholders work well as function calling tokens for finetuning ig

[rigid snow]

i think

[rough bloom]

used for fine-tuning I think, can assign them a specific purpose then

[true hemlock]

how long have i not been working on any llm

my memory about it is sort of fuzzy rn, or maybe because i haven't slept since 2 or 3 days ago

[nocturne olive]

LLMs silly
I haven't touched them in a while either

[true hemlock]

last time i touched ANN models, it was just pretty recently when i was working with alphafold

[rough bloom]

might be the second one
sleep more

[true hemlock]

insomnia

[olive sable]

Without fear
Insomnia

[ancient forge]

why I can't send a screenshot

[true hemlock]

once i got the time, i'll work on diffusion models for real time robotic applications

[olive sable]

I can′t get no sleep

[olive sable]

you're new

you need to level up to earn embed perms

[ancient forge]

sad

gpt-oss generating an image goes BRRRR

[umbral thorn]

ewww

[true hemlock]

gpt-oss is shit for its size im ngl

[ancient forge]

for STEM it's quite good

[true hemlock]

its moe slop all over

[olive sable]

moe moe kyun

[ancient forge]

it can properly solve tasks from quantum mecanics, so it is good for me

[umbral thorn]

image generation disgusting slop

[warped narwhal]

it can definitely use more

[olive sable]

maybe with custom bios profile

im jsut usign PBO advanced 4 or whatever it was called

[true hemlock]

ppt for 5950x is 142W

[warped narwhal]

im on that as well, what motherboard do you have?

[true hemlock]

but pbo do sometimes push it quite far

[olive sable]

msi x570 tomahawk

[true hemlock]

145W is normal on the 5950x

btw

[olive sable]

ye

[true hemlock]

its literally the ppt on most agesa preset

[warped narwhal]

I'm not sure why mine is so high then

[olive sable]

i don't think 200W would be too healthy for my setup, specially with me only having 750W psu and my 3090 still needs most of that

[rough bloom]

MoE is good though
fast

[true hemlock]

some pbo set higher current limit

so you tend to draw more on full saturation even though voltage isn't above stock

[warped narwhal]

my psu is 700w, but my gpu is only a 6800xt so I have a bit more headroom

[true hemlock]

pretty tight headroom though. what model of psu?

[olive sable]

i have a corsair RM750X

havent had any issues with power yet

[true hemlock]

gotta ensure voltage transient is at very least ± <100mV on 12v rail

[true hemlock]

oh nice

[warped narwhal]

it might be cooling actually

[olive sable]

i never reach more than 70C with the nh-d15 so i doubt its cooling

[olive sable]

im lying i got 75C here apparently

[true hemlock]

sam, just do advanced/custom pbo lol

[warped narwhal]

^

[true hemlock]

increase ppt limit, increase current limit

[olive sable]

i could i guess, i dont think i need it tho

[true hemlock]

set pbo clock offset limit as high as the board allows

preferably you can also undervolt

[olive sable]

true

maybe later

[true hemlock]

i hit 340W ish on my 7950x engi sample before with custom pbo

could push more tbh

but the ihs is shit

and the die package is also shit

i can cool it fine but the thermal density would always cause hotspot spikes

im more comfortable pushing intel chips to above 400W for this reason

[olive sable]

[amber fractal]

[umbral thorn]

u promise want overclock 13980hx together

[true hemlock]

tomorrow maybe

[hollow matrix]

I hate windows, for some reason windows explorer crashed and didn't start back up so I had to open task manager and run it myself

[nocturne olive]

Windows moment

Just go to Linux at this point

[hollow matrix]

I'm thinking about it, another bug happening recently is that windows gets unfocused or something and the only way to fix it is with the actions you can do with keyboard shortcuts, sometimes opening a new window fixes it so I can just open task manager, but sometimes I need to use keyboard shortcuts to restart the computer to fix it

[nocturne olive]

Windows is borked for good

[hollow matrix]

Yeah, it's getting worse with every update

I think they said that like 30% of it is written with AI at this point? Surely that couldn't be the problem

[nocturne olive]

Yeah they did say they use 30% AI code

[hollow matrix]

Which is fine, what isn't fine is when they don't fucking test that everything the AI does actually works

[warm river]

guys is that suspicous that my site got request with "GoogleBot" useragent on my site with mullvad vpn ip?

[nocturne olive]

Yeah they seemingly just go with "if it builds it goes into the release"

[warm river]

from Netherlands

[hollow matrix]

Yeah, it's not great, also, the page for the changelog of a recent windows update was completely AI generated, Including the screenshots, there were no real screenshots it was just fucked up AI generated ones that anyone who looked for half a second would realize were completely fucked up

[nocturne olive]

Yeah they've lost any chance of actually making a decent product they just push slop

[amber fractal]

Funny relvant photo

[hollow matrix]

Yeah, they've fallen far from when they used to have a good product

[nocturne olive]

Windows started going wrong around 8 or 10

11 is unusable

[amber fractal]

windows always alternated between good and bad releases

[hollow matrix]

Windows 10 was good, if they had stopped there, with only bugfixes and actually useful features I think people would have been happy

[nocturne olive]

Windows 10 was the final usable release

[warped narwhal]

personally I liked windows 8.1 over windows 10

moved to linux shortly after windows 10, not because of problems with the os itself, I just liked the start menu of window 8 more

[hollow matrix]

I can't remember a single problem I ever had with windows 10

[amber fractal]

I rember having a few, but those are my issues

[hollow matrix]

Also, Windows 10 ran really well on pretty much any device, Windows 11 just runs like shit unless you have a very high end computer

[nocturne olive]

Mine went to completely garbage, after running for a bit it would just become unable to open any programs, or the start menu, or the right click context menu

[amber fractal]

except for the one where an update completly bricked the system, wonder why I moved that one over to linux

[nocturne olive]

Yeah an update bricked mine too and I swapped to Linux for good

[hollow matrix]

That happened to me but with Windows 11 although that might be my fault since that was the update that would bring me to a windows insiders version

[amber fractal]

I'm lucky I already swapped to another PC before it did any real damage, but yeah that sucked

[hollow matrix]

Although it's really stupid that they don't give you any sort of warning that it could have any negative side effects, you just have to agree to something that probably makes Microsoft not liable if anything goes wrong

[proven anvil]

my discord bot got DDosed

[vapid pulsar]

Classic Microsoft behaviour

Some updates i recall made my laptop blackout once in a while

[clear sedge]

windows always ran like shit for me

then i moved onto ubuntu

best decision of my life

then i moved onto fedora

bester decision of my life

fedora on a high-end pc from 2018 is lowkey peak i'm not even looking to upgrade for a few years

except maybe my ram whenever that drops in price

[olive sable]

same witha rch for me

when i use windows my pc makes a lot of noise, on linux i forget it even has cooling

[severe path]

I wonder how Microsoft can become so incompetent at managing their own operating system?

[olive sable]

pure carelesness and greed

[severe path]

I'll add laziness as well.
And a sheer nonsensical inability to see to their customers.

[olive sable]

if they were lazy we would still be on windows 10, they do put a minimal amount of effort in to try to look novel

[severe path]

It is almost cartoonishly evil the way they operate. Its like they got their ideas from a cartoon. This isn't even how a decent criminal/evil person would operate.

And they only make their OS look good to appeal to their investors, otherwise, they wouldn't even bother with that.

Its like they think their customers are filth.

Or vermin.

They show who the real vermin are by their actions.

[young plover]

Swap around some computer hardware
Attempt to install Linux on spare drive
Spend an hour figuring out why the live CD grub keeps going back to the menu with no feedback when trying to enter the OS
Disable secure boot
Install
LCD monitors are flickering
Can't sync my KeePass database because proton drive has no Linux client
problems for another day, back to Windows

[severe path]

I don't really use cloud services, and I think life is better that way.

Other than that, what graphics driver were you using?

[young plover]

Dunno. I just assumed CachyOS would set the driver up correctly.

I don't really use cloud services, and I think life is better that way.
Well I do need a password manager and I don't want it tied to any specific cloud service. Hence the keepass database in cloud storage.

That and email are too critical and high-maintenance for me to trust my own servers

[opaque sigil]

there's the option of connecting to proton drive via rclone i guess but yeah, not ideal

i'm both surprised and not at all surprised that they don't have a linux client

[idle dune]

Nerds, I have a 2015 MBP

Pop)OS, Mint, or Ubuntu

inb4 install Arch or Gentoo

[opaque sigil]

they're all the same anyway, pick whichever one seems the most interesting to you

[idle dune]

Pop_OS and Ubuntu both look the prettier

So ill flip a coin

[opaque sigil]

popOS has been kind of behind with their releases

ubuntu is always a safe bet

[idle dune]

[warped narwhal]

[amber fractal]

LFS

[idle dune]

IDK I am only looking at the top ten of Distro Watch and I know already I like Debian and Debian based OS's.

I'm looking for osmething that i lightweight becuase my mac is and something that has support for the software I need

Everything else i can run through Lutris, Wine, Heroic, and WinBoat

[opaque sigil]

xubuntu

[idle dune]

I forgot about Xubuntu