programming

[fast pagoda]

loans being

credit card

[olive sable]

i pay everything with a fat stack of cash

[fast pagoda]

rent an apartment -> hard check on credit

[rigid snow]

this may surprise you but credit cards aren't really a thing in europe

[clear sedge]

i'm bouta take a 5 dollar loan wish me luck in paying it back

[fast pagoda]

open a bank account -> hard check on credit

get insurance -> they check your credit

[rigid snow]

they exist but not popular at all

[clear sedge]

they are here
do you mean the european union?

[rigid snow]

^

[olive sable]

lets see

[opaque sigil]

not nearly as common as in the US

I (unfortunately) have one

[fast pagoda]

oh also

employers use them

[olive sable]

i have a debit card and a.. 2nd debit card??? sure why not

[fast pagoda]

for screening

[clear sedge]

i don't and won't ever have a credit card

debit card >>>>

[rigid snow]

i don't have a credit card
i have like 10-ish debit cards though

[clear sedge]

10??

[fast pagoda]

you can get approved for/denied for apartments easily with a bad credit score

you can not get a job w/ a bad credit score

[clear sedge]

excuse me what

[rigid snow]

long story
yes all different banks

[olive sable]

i have a red debit card that i use for local stuff, and a black one that has better support for paying online

[fast pagoda]

if you're on any govt benefits you can get those penalized for having bad credit

[clear sedge]

how are you expected to pay off your debt without a job

what kind of system is that

[fast pagoda]

kek

you can get a job, they just will use it as a negative for not hiring you

[clear sedge]

"sorry you need money to earn money"

[fast pagoda]

but again remember here you can be fired almost anywhere for any reason or no reason at all with no notice

[rigid snow]

i would assume something about not being reliable/responsible

[fast pagoda]

yup

[opaque sigil]

sth sth "this person is bad with money so they're a bad person in general so they're probably not a good employee"

[olive sable]

same thing here tho. they just invent a reason

[clear sedge]

i'm horrible with money

i'm great at being a person though

[olive sable]

i suck at both lol

[clear sedge]

don't get me wrong, i'm not a functional person

i'm just a person

[fast pagoda]

i got my god dam credit ran opening an electricity service at my new apt

with a provider i ALREADY HAVE BEEN USING FOR LIKE 10 YEARS

[rigid snow]

if i have a credit report it's probably horrible

[fast pagoda]

fwiw mine is fantastic though im a huge sucker, they love that

[olive sable]

of all the money i get, i spend at least 60%.

[clear sedge]

of all the money i get, i spend at least 98%

i keep 2% in my pocket for emergencies

[fast pagoda]

all time i'm definitely in the negatives for money spent vs generated

my poor parents

[olive sable]

i just ran out of things i wanted to buy, hence i stopped spending everything

[fast pagoda]

based

[clear sedge]

i highkey want to buy a steam deck

i wanna target it with my game engine

[olive sable]

same but i know i would barely use it, so i reasoned myself out of it

[fast pagoda]

yeah i have a switch

that thing

spends a lot of time

sitting in places

a steam deck i might use marginally more since it's also a computer

[olive sable]

my switch is jsut sitting in a dock in the game room 24/7.

[fast pagoda]

doesnt matter if it's docked, undocked, it's usually got a dead battery and not in use

[clear sedge]

good old expensive staubfänger

[fast pagoda]

i have a lot of those

i dont dust as much as i should either

[rigid snow]

i have used a service that let me pay in installments but was not technically being run by a bank at the time and isn't legally binding, i just read the tos, realized i could do what i did and proceeded to use it as a "pay anytime" credit card and was late by like a couple of months on some payments

[olive sable]

because of the amount of power the consoles use even when turned off, the game room is ussualy fully unplugged. so my switch is dead most of the time too

[fast pagoda]

most of the things i ever have on credit are because they offered 0% credit on it for a set period like 1 2months or whatever

and with inflation existing that's just a discount

so i take it every time

[rigid snow]

0.2% discount

[fast pagoda]

a buck's a buck

and if it's $1000 it's at least a couple cheeseburger

[olive sable]

i like using debit, i think its superior in every single way

[rigid snow]

ye as i said in europe not really a thing

people do

[fast pagoda]

idk what y'alls debit cards look like in europe but debits here have like none benefits compared to cc

[olive sable]

wdym benefit?

i put money on it

and it stays there

i dont need airplane miles

[obsidian mantle]

what do you even do if you left with negative balance, you just eat ramen next month or smth?

[fast pagoda]

cc can have like 5% cashback on all purchases (or the equivalent in like loyalty flight miles w/ air carriers)

if someone steals it and uses it, the credit card almost always just reverses the transaction with no penalty to you and you pay nothing even if they "stole" $10k off your card

[rigid snow]

ye because not your money

[fast pagoda]

a few of them get you into airport lounges and upgrades and stuff on them

i have a year long perplexity sub rn because of a card lol

they just gave it to me as a benefit

[olive sable]

if i try to buy something in a store my card jsut declines if it would ge negative, if its a subscription and i go negative i get a fee for going negative

[fast pagoda]

because ai money bubble

[rigid snow]

not on a cc i would assume

[fast pagoda]

rental cars that i drive are covered for insurance purposes if i use the card to rent them

[olive sable]

idk i dont have a creditcard

[fast pagoda]

you just have a limit of credit

for example one of mine is a 15k limit so i cannot spend more than $15k usd on it normally

it'll decline if the balance on it is higher than that

but not till then

of course, if you dont pay it back they get to charge interest

i have never paid interest on a credit card tho

[rigid snow]

yeah right credit cards would show how much you owe instead of how much you have

never thought of that

[olive sable]

iirc my debitcard has a 650 euro per day limit for cash withdrawals, and a limit of 2.5K per week. its higher in the app i think cuz then its digital

[lament igloo]

whats with these folders bruh
they really want to be .minecraft so bad 🥀

[opaque sigil]

needless to say it's a lot of interest

[fast pagoda]

we like to pretend we're on linux anyways

yeah it's like 20-30% if you dont pay that month XD

[rigid snow]

wtf

forever enslaved by the bank

[opaque sigil]

that's how they make their money

[olive sable]

why not use our lord and saviour the humble debitcard?

[fast pagoda]

it's fine if you just pay the whole balance every month, that's what i do

[opaque sigil]

it's actually really bad once it gets going

[clear sedge]

.m2

maven user

[opaque sigil]

less protections

[fast pagoda]

because the benefits are generally worth it to use IF you can avoid interest aka just pay the full amount you spent, you just have to shift your thinking a little but you spend the same amount and get a little bit of stupid stuff back that costs nothing .... (if you dont not pay)

[olive sable]

debitcards also have chargeback fir when it gets stolen tho

and just block your card if it gets stolen btw

[fast pagoda]

it's not nearly the same robustness of a cc getting stolen

at least here

if they manage to get somewhere and blast out 5k from your account, it's gone most likely

not with a cc

[opaque sigil]

every time i've done a chargeback with my cc it was done no questions asked, with the debit card it was always a lot more involved

[fast pagoda]

could be a US thing that

but that's my experience too

even legitimate stuff where they just straight up scammed me at a business and gave no service or something

huge pain if i even managed to get it reversed

a cc will just reverse like 2 weeks of charges if you call and tell them oops i lost it 2 weeks ago and uh they hit my limit sadge :(

[olive sable]

fair enough i guess

never had to deal with charge-backs cuz i just block my card if i cant find it

[fast pagoda]

my ccs also let me make virtual cards so i just have 1 fake cc for every website i ever give me cc to

and you can just cancel those at will

and make more

[opaque sigil]

i tend to use paypal now instead whenever just in case

[fast pagoda]

so it's never an issue if someone has my card on file because i can just erase that one

[olive sable]

bancontact is my goat

[fast pagoda]

if you have venmo credit or paypal, you can get 12 mos of perplexity pro free rn (i only know cuz they emailed me about it and i yoinked it, havent used it yet lMao but maybe some day)

[opaque sigil]

Hmmm

[fast pagoda]

idk i usually end up with like 100-150 bux in cashback and junk each month just spending the same amount i wold on a debit card

and then i use that to buy computer junk i dont need

[olive sable]

i don't think you have charge-backs, but you need to fill in a pin to verify purchases over 50 bucks

[fast pagoda]

i think i accidentally pay people's restaurant bills walking by their tables and dont even get a message about it on my phone

i put $1200 at microcenter on my capital one card when my CPU died

tap payment

no verification whatsoever

ok ur good

"oh"

[olive sable]

[opaque sigil]

[olive sable]

i see the issue now

you cards dont have pin codes you need to type in at the cash register?

[fast pagoda]

debit cards do

but you can also just run those as credit here

hit cancel on the pin and it goes thru LOL

[olive sable]

what

????????????/

[fast pagoda]

yep

debit cards in the US are mastercards

or VISA

ive even seen a discover debit

[olive sable]

my card has bancontact, and the red and yellow circle

[fast pagoda]

mastercard

[olive sable]

ye i dont think i can pay without the pin code

[opaque sigil]

i'm very glad mastercard's maestro is dead now

[fast pagoda]

just checked i have 2 debit card and 4 cc in my wallet
i somehow feel as though that's a relatively smol amount for the average ameribanker

[opaque sigil]

so now the local bank's debit card is just a visa card

[olive sable]

maestro is dead? my moms card had that

[fast pagoda]

per sloperview: Maestro is a brand of debit card issued by Mastercard that is currently being phased out and replaced by the Debit Mastercard brand. Mastercard is a global payment processing network that offers a variety of card types, including credit, debit, and prepaid cards.

according to google's advanced artificial intelligence engine, when your mom renews, she will likely get a new debit mastercard instead

and when she does she will have a debit/credit card like us mericans

[opaque sigil]

they're annoying because you can't use them to buy anything online since they're only linked to your bank account

[fast pagoda]

that's an ATM card

[olive sable]

she already has a debitcard

its a debitcard with both the mastercard and maestro logo

[silent cloak]

Mastershart

[fast pagoda]

what's cirrus

it's blue

[silent cloak]

Am I right lads or am I right lads

[olive sable]

idk

[fast pagoda]

bankamerishart

[olive sable]

i have no opinions on mastercard

[opaque sigil]

4 and 1 here so almost flipped

[fast pagoda]

i randomly got a venmo debit cuz they told me i could get $15 cashback at newegg

and i was like

ok

[silent cloak]

My bank moved to discover not long after Mastercard and visa pulled their bs

Where they refused to process payments for stuff they didn't like

[fast pagoda]

oh is that the steam thing

steam got hit by that recently

[rigid snow]

it's been dead

[fast pagoda]

and you cant make cc payments in like switzerland or something

[silent cloak]

More than steam but yeah

[olive sable]

i doubt she used maestro even a single time anyways

probably didnt notice it died

[fast pagoda]

according to the google machine they are still valid thru their expiration

so it probably just hasnt expired and been replaced yet

[rigid snow]

no shit

it's just a rebrand shuffle

[fast pagoda]

hey i had a whole ass bank account close up shop and kick me out a few years ago

[silent cloak]

Buy gold

[rigid snow]

on chain

[fast pagoda]

i just assume they're gonna do whatever the fuark they want to do

yeah i should go for a 3 chain look like zuckerberg

[silent cloak]

Embrace bringing back safes

[fast pagoda]

my safe contains my birth certificate, my casino rewards cards, and my ssn card that i pretend is not out there

[olive sable]

what in the gravity falls

[fast pagoda]

and often firearms

not right now tho

[rigid snow]

buying gold on chain: :)
buying gold on chain: :(

[silent cloak]

Use credit card to pay digitally then pay back with physical gold

Then they can't shutdown with ur money

[fast pagoda]

i buy my gold on the $POOP blockchain

[silent cloak]

Neurocoin

[rigid snow]

tether has a gold backed one i think

you can exchange your tokens for real gold

[silent cloak]

Make tokens using gold

A real "bitcoin"

[fast pagoda]

im out here mining the bits by hand

[rigid snow]

that's not gold

doesn't look like it

fake

[silent cloak]

Ur fake

Just checked its 1 Oz of gold

[rigid snow]

bad color grading

then

[silent cloak]

Yeah its sharper than the other pics

[fast pagoda]

this guy is satoshi, i have independently verified this, and that's a genuine bitcoin alright

[silent cloak]

But it showed the design the best so I picked it

[olive sable]

the only reason bitcoin is valuable is cuz people place value on it no?

[fast pagoda]

the only reason anything* is valuable currently

[silent cloak]

Defined currency

[obsidian mantle]

its hard to trace something something

[silent cloak]

Bitcoin isn't hard

[obsidian mantle]

some people need that so its valuable

[fast pagoda]

it's not even hard to trace by now

[olive sable]

i mean, food is valuable cuz i need it to live, and money is valuable cuz i can buy food with it. but i can't buy food with bitcoin

[obsidian mantle]

then what

[silent cloak]

Ur thinking of other coins

[fast pagoda]

number go up

is what it's for

[obsidian mantle]

ah yes

[silent cloak]

I think Monero is harder to trace?

If i recall

[fast pagoda]

yep

[silent cloak]

Its one of those ones

[fast pagoda]

xmr is the big one

rn

[silent cloak]

Especially as it doesn't mine good on GPU

So it helps kill off those mining factories

[fast pagoda]

that part is proving to be not great

[silent cloak]

Sadge

[olive sable]

remember when bitcoin was the thing people used gpus for

[silent cloak]

"Was"

[fast pagoda]

there's a pool that's apparently real bad juju currently in control of or soon to be in control of the majority of mining on the xmr network

[silent cloak]

[obsidian mantle]

bitcoin and other blockchains work only while they are being mined, right?
and mining is basically transaction processing and other stuff?

[silent cloak]

Probably in china

If history says anything

[fast pagoda]

i believe it's a bit north of there (that's the common sentiment)

[olive sable]

mongolia?

[obsidian mantle]

huh

[fast pagoda]

warmer but north-er

[olive sable]

oh

oh i see

"mongolia"

[fast pagoda]

known for their crypto cartels

[obsidian mantle]

i never heard of that wtf

[olive sable]

me neither

[obsidian mantle]

i mean energy is cheap there ngl

[fast pagoda]

it's not mongolia lmaoooo

[olive sable]

ye i know

we've been over that

[silent cloak]

Idk

[fast pagoda]

wasnr sure if vit did

[obsidian mantle]

and head of government is pretty far away so authorities dont like to look in that direction

i actually have no idea whats happening on the east there

can be anything really

[olive sable]

[silent cloak]

Idk what country

But xmr looks to be not doing the best rn

[fast pagoda]

monero is a large target for just about anyone who has power atm to be able to figure out who is buying what and when with it

[obsidian mantle]

there is only one country to the north from mongolia

[fast pagoda]

[silent cloak]

I dont have a map open rn

[obsidian mantle]

its russia

[silent cloak]

Ah

[fast pagoda]

mongolia is like if china had a dent in their head and it was filled with water

mongolia is the water

[silent cloak]

Mongolian throat singing tho

[rigid snow]

you have the authority to verify txs when you prove you've put something in. for proof-of-work blockchains that would be "mining"

[fast pagoda]

i now want to see a mongolian crypto empire playing on the golden horde thing

[silent cloak]

Web3

[olive sable]

mongolia underdog

[rigid snow]

proof-of-stake is a more popular system nowadays tho

[fast pagoda]

my goat they always come back in the 4th quarter

[olive sable]

🇲🇳

[silent cloak]

I tried to convince my family to get bitcoin back in 2015

They didn't listen tho

[olive sable]

i was finger-painting in 2015

[silent cloak]

I remember it was the same year I learned C#

After mostly working with Java and VB.net and a few others

[fast pagoda]

i own a flash drive that is broken

i had btc in the earliest days, in my past i have paid for at least one or two things using what i know was over 10 bitcoin each

i am reasonably positive if any of that bitcoin still exists

it's on that flash drive

but i'm not sure enough of how much it is or if it's even there

[silent cloak]

U know it can be recovered potentially

[olive sable]

brother why are you not trying to get the data from theat drive?

[fast pagoda]

ehh

like i said if it IS there

i dont know how much

it couldnt have been much

[silent cloak]

Ill take it if u dont want if

[olive sable]

even if it isnt much, it probably is more than 5 bucks

[fast pagoda]

i have been increasingly tempted to send it off

i just feel like it's gonna be nothing

and then illl be mad

[silent cloak]

Im willing to gamble

[olive sable]

same

lets go gambling

[rigid snow]

pos works like this: to be a validator you have to have X tokens in your wallet and you get awarded new tokens by processing transactions. there is a voting system between validators and the majority vote on the validity of a transaction is taken

[silent cloak]

Making a block chain ain't even that difficult tbh

Hence trillions of coin types and other web3.0 shit

[rigid snow]

they're mostly forks of each other

[silent cloak]

True

Very innovative

[fast pagoda]

The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks

i had a poster of this front page in my dorm

[warped narwhal]

so the richest users are the ones that get to decide what transfers happen? sounds like a flawless solution

[fast pagoda]

miners are that anyways in the other side

[rigid snow]

kind of? thing is they are proving they're invested in the network so logically it's in their best interest to upkeep the integrity of it

same could be said about proof-of-work as well, but it's compute-rich then

which is arguably the same thing

[warped narwhal]

at least with compute rich you can have a large number of small compute nodes to counter the large processors, but with a minimum wallet size needed to be a validator it just looks like a rich group gets to decide how much money they have. For instance what actually happens if they just decide to fake a hole bunch of transactions that give themselves millions worth of coins?

[rigid snow]

that wouldn't happen because it requires a level of coordination between people who run the nodes which isn't really achievable

[fast pagoda]

kinda just hoping this thing comes back around and starts working reliably randomly at some point

2 gb usb drive kek

[rigid snow]

learn flash drive data recovery

[fast pagoda]

i have a license for dmde i should snoop around actually

idk what they use for that

[warped narwhal]

yellow usb port?

[rigid snow]

powered when pc off

[warped narwhal]

ah

[rigid snow]

common thing i think

[warped narwhal]

mines purple which I have no clue about

[fast pagoda]

tbh i just thought corsair said yolo and made them yellow because the case has accents that are yellow

[rigid snow]

ye probably that

[fast pagoda]

that one does mean power delivery

purple

that one i DO care about because i was about to say i only use usb ports for power if they can get at least 30watts or more out

[rigid snow]

i see these on system integrator pcs

like not just prebuilts but those with custom mobos and cases and stuff

[fast pagoda]

i thought it was just "this has powor" but it's actually that + a weird spec of ss

[rigid snow]

what the hell is usb-bc

[fast pagoda]

they only use that one in british columbia

it was a slightly higher power usb 1

or something

back when high power was 7 watts

usb-c1 not usb1

it was like 2011

[obsidian mantle]

20v usb sounds dangerous

[fast pagoda]

i use it all day every day

[obsidian mantle]

what if someone accidentely plugs somehting htere

[fast pagoda]

well higher than that prob

[rigid snow]

it’s

usb c

[fast pagoda]

my PD cables rn can do 240 watts

[obsidian mantle]

so if i plug my phone there

it explodes

[fast pagoda]

it will only pull what it can

[rigid snow]

that’s not how any of that works

[fast pagoda]

there's like 5-6 handshakes that happen before it decides it's pulling power and how much

[rigid snow]

they negotiate

[obsidian mantle]

ooh

[rigid snow]

come on it’s 2025

how have you not encountered usb pd

[obsidian mantle]

maybe i have it now

[rigid snow]

the charging brick that came with your phone probably does pd

[obsidian mantle]

but its been 2 months since i bought new pc i just didnt have a reason to investigate all those fancy usbs i have now

[fast pagoda]

up to 60w~ can be quickcharge not pd but almost certainly supports it

if it's usb-c only on the brick

it's pd

[rigid snow]

right but no phones come with usb a bricks nowadays

[obsidian mantle]

maybe thats why my usb cable i had got burnt

[rigid snow]

precisely because of pd

[obsidian mantle]

that cable had a display which was showing some mad numbers at some points and was overheating

maybe phone and brick decided to go above 5v and nobody asked the cable

[rigid snow]

is that even possible

i don’t think it is

[obsidian mantle]

what exactly

[rigid snow]

like if the cable isn’t designed to carry X watts it shouldn’t

if it was built correctly

[obsidian mantle]

what stops it, if nobody asked it

[fast pagoda]

it has a chip in it that handles that

[obsidian mantle]

its just a cable it doesnt control the flow

[fast pagoda]

that's why they are more expensive for the higher capacity cables

it does

[rigid snow]

oh i didn’t even know

makes sense, apple was putting chips in their cables in 2012, why wouldn’t it now

they were doing it for different reasons tho

[fast pagoda]

lightning 5 cables are very expensive pretty much just because of the controller

god dammit

[mint shuttle]

i think i wrote best minecraft server plugin, check my screen in voice channel

[fast pagoda]

thunderbolt 5

[rigid snow]

lightning 5

[fast pagoda]

i physically cant stop myself saying lightning when i mean thunderbolt

i dont know if it's the other way around because i have never and will never use a lightning cable

[rigid snow]

which is silly because they have never had anything in common

[fast pagoda]

apple was involved in both

thunderbolt was apple and intel

[rigid snow]

i mean apart from that

[fast pagoda]

and both being competitors

well

usb c and lightning really

but thunderbolt is on top of usbc

[rigid snow]

lightning isn’t a thing anymore btw

[fast pagoda]

yeah i know

about time

[rigid snow]

firewire

[fast pagoda]

was so stupid when they literally had macbooks and ipads that were using pure usbc

and still scamming people into buying slop phones with their knowingly shittier proprietary connector

[rigid snow]

why would they put a lightning port into a macbook

over anything else

[fast pagoda]

why would they put a lightning port into anything

it was better than micro usb

b

and a

i get it

but it should've been replaced the second usbc became mainstream

which was a lot later than some realize

and arguably it's still not everything

[rigid snow]

it was on the ipad

[fast pagoda]

which just makes it sillier they didnt do it for iphone

[rigid snow]

money

[fast pagoda]

thanks EU for forcing their hand on that one

at least idk i think that's what broke the camel's back

[rigid snow]

wdym

[mint shuttle]

https://imgur.com/a/BLJIu9m

[fast pagoda]

you can still buy devices on the low end that do not use usb-c

[rigid snow]

oh right the ipads

[fast pagoda]

amazon only just finally swapped to usb-c on their shitty fire tablets

[silent cloak]

usb mini my beloathed

[obsidian mantle]

ewww

[fast pagoda]

mini was terrible

micro was bad

micro-b 3.0 was epic

[obsidian mantle]

mini > micro though

[rigid snow]

absolutely not

[obsidian mantle]

mini doesnt break so easily compared to micro

[silent cloak]

i faced this issue with mini and micro

though on the other end mostly

[fast pagoda]

my buddy had a note with one of these monsters

people would immediately run away screaming if he tried to charge his phone

[silent cloak]

I KNOW THOSE

[rigid snow]

you don’t need this to charge it

[silent cloak]

i had those on some sort of tablet thing

[fast pagoda]

yeah but it's the cable he had

the other part is just data

you can use regular mini yeah

[silent cloak]

wait guys

[fast pagoda]

micro*

[silent cloak]

opinion on USB B

[fast pagoda]

square

[silent cloak]

i only ever need it for printers or MIDI

[fast pagoda]

my opinion on it is printers

or audio

[rigid snow]

it’s ok

[fast pagoda]

yeah lmao

[obsidian mantle]

we have a lot of shit using b

at work

convenient

[silent cloak]

wait u guys remember these?

[rigid snow]

chonky cables tho

[fast pagoda]

ps2 leggo

[silent cloak]

2 of those on my old towers back in the day

1 for mouse and 1 for keyboard

[obsidian mantle]

we had PCs at university using these, we got really confused when it didnt support hotplug and we thought mouse is broken after we replugged it and it didnt connect

[silent cloak]

i had those on an old compaq

[rigid snow]

are you 50

[obsidian mantle]

it was like.. 5 years ago

[silent cloak]

makes me wanna bring back ball mice

i had one with my compaq

[obsidian mantle]

they just dont upgrade computers there unless it stops working

[fast pagoda]

im preeeeety sure the i7-750, p55 chipset based pc i built in 2010 had the ps/2 connectors still

[rigid snow]

pretty sure my mobo has a ps/2 header

[silent cloak]

wasnt this exact one

[fast pagoda]

it's lower level than most anything else

[silent cloak]

but it was similar

[rigid snow]

or port i guess

it totally does just checked

[silent cloak]

then i eventually upgraded to one of these when it broke (diff color)

[rigid snow]

do modern platforms not include a port

[fast pagoda]

my current one which is b850 does not

my 4770k's z87 out in the living room doesnt either

i thought it did

[rigid snow]

but like it’s not supposed to be this old of a thing to have been excluded

my mb is a b450

[fast pagoda]

no it isn't, it's low level

does your board have legacy bios capability

[rigid snow]

probably

[fast pagoda]

it might be tied to non-uefi only

is my thinking

[silent cloak]

i always go back to legacy to get most linux isos to work on laptops

[fast pagoda]

cuz here's my p55 sli's io

[silent cloak]

otherwise i run into shit

[obsidian mantle]

wtf is this, a radio?

[fast pagoda]

unironically yes

that's the speaker

and it lights up with a p55 logo lmao

[rigid snow]

speaker on the motherboard directly

lol

[fast pagoda]

it's removable

factory installed tho

factory option

evga at the time liked putting things that resembled tumours there

[obsidian mantle]

3 memory slots

[fast pagoda]

that was a tri channel chipset and cpu

[obsidian mantle]

[rigid snow]

can we get actual 2" speakers in cases back

that was fun

[fast pagoda]

god's coldest southbridge

this is an nvidia nForce chipset as well, they used to make chipsets

[rigid snow]

absurd

[obsidian mantle]

is this the southbridge?

[rigid snow]

what else would it be

connected to the huge hunk of aluminum

[obsidian mantle]

idk i was never introduced to geography of motherboards

[fast pagoda]

northbridge/southbridge handled basically what the UMI/DMI do now

io and stuff

it's all mostly on processor now for speed reasons

and you can see why when you see someone start malding if you suggest their pci-e 5 lanes from the chipset are anything near equivalent to the CPU native ones

[obsidian mantle]

did they just rename it

[fast pagoda]

no

i mean

the functionality has to happen

for pci-e to exist and stuff

so technically kinda

it's just literally on the CPU-die now

instead of a separate chipset that was physically on the mobo outside of the CPU

starting around x58 which is the first generation intel core

intel core i7 etc

nehalem which was a sick microarch name

those are the ones that had triple channel ddr3 as their native config

[rigid snow]

will we ever get a socketed arm platform for home use

[fast pagoda]

as soon as ampere decides to make them

https://amperecomputing.com/products/processors these could be socketed tomorrow

[rigid snow]

yeah i know of them

it’s just that

[warped narwhal]

any cpu is hot swappable if you are good enough at soldering

[obsidian mantle]

what are non-socketed? when they are embedded into motherboard?

[fast pagoda]

yes

[rigid snow]

bga

[fast pagoda]

BGA soldered right on the board

technically you can remove and replace them

it requires

care

and expertise

[obsidian mantle]

why do you need it to be separate anyway

[fast pagoda]

and equipment

upgrade later

without upgrading the whole board

[obsidian mantle]

they change sockets like every generation now

[fast pagoda]

that's just intel being stupid

[warped narwhal]

intel being intel

[obsidian mantle]

oh i thought they all do it

[olive sable]

am5 is probably gonna last a bit

[warped narwhal]

I upgraded my am4 cpu after 3 years of having it to a new cpu and its awesome to actually be able to get better performance without throwing out the whole motherboard

[rigid snow]

wait steam frame runs x86 apps

[olive sable]

yes

translation layer

[fast pagoda]

yes

it runs arch

w/ translation

[silent cloak]

i kind of want one when it comes out

but i still want to get a steamdeck

[rigid snow]

if valve does the same thing with the emulation layer as they did with proton and make it viable

[fast pagoda]

i want one just to have arch linux as close to my eyeballs as physically possible without taking up my hands

[silent cloak]

based and true

[rigid snow]

arm desktops might actually become a thing maybe

[silent cloak]

thats the only way ill ever run arch

[fast pagoda]

just needs someone to push

[silent cloak]

it just needs valve

[fast pagoda]

the ampere chips are already dumb fast

[obsidian mantle]

whats the difference

[silent cloak]

proton was big

[obsidian mantle]

arm non arm

[fast pagoda]

different instruction architectures

basically they speak a different programming language

but

arm is a risc cpu

[obsidian mantle]

is it a good thing

[fast pagoda]

so it's got a less complex instruction set

x86 is CISC

[obsidian mantle]

is there something you cant do on current architecture

[fast pagoda]

which is very robust and dummy thicc

[hearty notch]

arm is 30% more power efficient than x86 overall because of a more standardizied and curated instruction set

and better hardware architecture

its just better

[fast pagoda]

but some stuff does take more instructions

because of the reduced set

[warped narwhal]

the only downside is that it can sometimes have slightly less performance

[obsidian mantle]

but it will require some translation level like proton to run x86 apps

[hearty notch]

its overall worth the tradeoff if you care about energy efficiency and i kind of dont but at the same time intuitively makes me feel cozy

[fast pagoda]

it's like a well engineered efficient racing road bike vs a honda goldwing

[obsidian mantle]

why would anyone care much about home pc energy efficiency

[hearty notch]

like if i think something is overall more efficient my mind gravitate towards wanting it

[fast pagoda]

well, they dont generally

[hearty notch]

just on some idealistic level

[fast pagoda]

but in phones it

[warped narwhal]

smh why doesn't arm have the aesdecwide256kl instruction, clearly it is useful smh

[fast pagoda]

'is important

that's why phones use ARM

and why atom sucks ass etc

[obsidian mantle]

right... phones/laptops can be really good

[warped narwhal]

oh atom was terrible

[hearty notch]

yea im mostly on laptops in general

[fast pagoda]

but if you think about it

[rigid snow]

i don’t remember what it’s called but the new steam frame has a snapdragon cpu and uses a emulation layer to run desktop games on it

[fast pagoda]

why not just jam 600000 watts into arm

iif it can be fast

so that's where we're headed

[hearty notch]

tbh i realized in the software dev world im way underpowerd compared with most people except the casual frontend devs lmao

i just dont care

[warped narwhal]

getting a 16 core cpu was such a gamechanger for compilation times

[silent cloak]

i vibe with that for the most part

[fast pagoda]

everyone is underpowered somewhere

[rigid snow]

oh also apple silicon macs, at first none of the apps were native arm and they used to have a translation layer called rosetta 2

which was great

[fast pagoda]

luckily arm linux has always been around

since

well

android is linux for one

[silent cloak]

termux

[fast pagoda]

so that stuff is already native and the work is done

[hearty notch]

silicon really got built well though idk i still think its somehow overall underrated in the public consciousness

[warped narwhal]

arm linux has much better support than windows arm at least (that is also one of the reasons that arm doesn't have much of a following outside servers)

[rigid snow]

it’s not about any of the shipped stuff, it’s about 3rd party apps which were not compiled for arm

[fast pagoda]

yeah i know

im just saying from like

a project enormity point of view

less stuff on the pile

[silent cloak]

i always try to make games and software that support it all

[fast pagoda]

makes it seem more approachable

[silent cloak]

especially linux

[rigid snow]

linux has always supported like 83737382 arches

[silent cloak]

i pushed for linux releases in my last job

[fast pagoda]

there's a slight (probably misplaced) hope that risc-v will do something

[rigid snow]

so i don’t get your point really

also it’s mostly a matter of just compiling for a different architecture

[fast pagoda]

i was more comparing it to how like if you were to think about moving windows to arm it required a lot of rework in the system too so that was a barrier to the entire thing even getting off the ground and it's still floppping around

[warped narwhal]

I could make up an imaginary cpu architecture and implement it on an fpga and there will be linux support in a week by some unpaid open source dev who got bored

[silent cloak]

do it

[fast pagoda]

idk i was comparing a linux arm desktop hypothetical to an as-yet-not mentioned windows x86 opponent lmao

don't read too far into it

[rigid snow]

windows on arm is a thing

[fast pagoda]

yeah it is and it's not well known

or adopted

[rigid snow]

it’s pretty well known i think

adopted yeah

[fast pagoda]

go ask ur grandma rite now

[rigid snow]

my grandma has no clue what the hell x86 is either

[silent cloak]

ARMHF support on windows when

[fast pagoda]

in all seriousness i think for a "normie" apple sillycon being some sort of phone related cpu thing is much more out there than arm windows existing is

[warped narwhal]

x86 has so many weird instructions holy.

ah yes I want a single instruction to... Perform 14 Rounds of AES Decryption Flow With Key Locker on 8 BlocksUsing 256-Bit Key

[fast pagoda]

it happens so much i tattooed it on my chest

[young plover]

I mean, yeah
It's a lot faster than not having AES instructions

[fast pagoda]

although tbf i think your average apple enjoyer doesnt even need apple silicon to actually be good or useful in any way to adopt it

they'd just buy it cuz tim apple said it's time to swap

[warped narwhal]

fair enough for AES, but how do we explain this one: https://www.felixcloutier.com/x86/gf2p8affineinvqb

GF2P8AFFINEINVQB — Galois Field Affine Transformation Inverse

[young plover]

It's just part of the AES pipeline that they exposed a separate instruction for since other non-builtin crypto algorithms can use it

[rigid snow]

it brought a lot of previous non apple enjoyers in though, and i mean A LOT

if it wasn’t for apple silicon i wouldn’t have ever bought a macbook

[fast pagoda]

yeah, ive nearly bought apple hardware several times because of it

[silent cloak]

Windows 10 IoT Core runs arm

if i recall

[rigid snow]

bro

[fast pagoda]

i dont think i could find a living human being that isn't me in a 5 mile radius that could actually point to a single thing that they KNOW runs win 10 iot

[warped narwhal]

yeah I put iot core on a raspberry pi before

[rigid snow]

there are arm laptops

with windows

you can go and purchase

right now

[fast pagoda]

chromebooks run arm

[warped narwhal]

isn't the windows surface arm?

[fast pagoda]

im not saying it's not a thing kek im just saying it's less known

or cared about if you prefer

[rigid snow]

no i’m saying what are these obscure ass editions

when

[fast pagoda]

oh that's just ATMs

[rigid snow]

windows 11

[fast pagoda]

and stuff

if they're not still running win xp //ce

which some are that shouldnt be f

[rigid snow]

yeah but as an example of windows running on arm it’s stupid

[rigid snow]

when

[fast pagoda]

oh yeah that i agree i dont think anyone around could name it

it's a legitimate use case tho

[silent cloak]

dont forget windows 11 is windows 10 with more bloat

[fast pagoda]

windows 10 is windows ME with bloat

[silent cloak]

na

ur thinking NT

[rigid snow]

me is nt

no?

[fast pagoda]

no i was actually gonna continue down

but decided not to lol

[silent cloak]

ME is MS-DOS based

lmao

[fast pagoda]

yeah ME is actually a successor to 98 and NOT nt

[silent cloak]

NT is from 2015

[fast pagoda]

huh

[rigid snow]

oh wait fuck right

xp is the one

[fast pagoda]

NT would be windows 2000

and then XP

[silent cloak]

Windows XP was the first one on NT

if i recall

[fast pagoda]

forward

nah it was 2000

[silent cloak]

NT kernel i mean

[fast pagoda]

actually there was windows for workgroups using NT kernel i think as well

could be wrong on that

[faint sandal]

no I'm pretty sure it's 2K for consumer SKUs

[fast pagoda]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_NT_3.1

[faint sandal]

ye but that was meant for servers

[nocturne olive]

First one that was aimed at consumers probably, there were earlier NT distros but mainly for workstations

[fast pagoda]

correct

[rigid snow]

it’s not a “home” os tho which is why xp is considered the first one

[fast pagoda]

there was a discussion here about how windows NT is but also isn't OS/2 related

that was fun

they """"""""Fully rewrote"""""""""""" everything

[silent cloak]

lmao

[fast pagoda]

(seemingly they mostly did actually)

inspiration was taken by their work on os/2 tho

[silent cloak]

11 is probably the most lazy addition upon the stack of additions though

makes sense when they replace a lot of their team with AI

[fast pagoda]

i dunno at least it unified some of the UI a bit more

[rigid snow]

that was a weird era with some crazy collabs

[young plover]

@warped narwhal RAID6 parity calculations
https://stackoverflow.com/a/59125174

[rigid snow]

powerpc comes to mind

too

[fast pagoda]

mid 90s CPU architecture and OS landscape was a shitshow

some cool stuff though

RIP dec alpha

and also dec

[silent cloak]

we need more competition tbh

[fast pagoda]

a lot of stuff actually supported DEC alpha

NT did

unix

linux

[faint sandal]

11 did add a bunch of improvements to the various underlying stack - it's just the consumer bloat really nuked the any possible good reception of it all

[fast pagoda]

plan 9 did

[silent cloak]

it runs like ass too

[fast pagoda]

plan 9 also has the best mascot

[silent cloak]

and bricked a lot of drives

it was fundementally shit from the second it got announced

[obsidian mantle]

how is steam os doing

[silent cloak]

after all they planned originally to leave it at 10

and rebrand to Windows

[faint sandal]

that specific one was misinformation - the firmwares on the affected SSDs were the problem

[silent cloak]

but muh profits

[fast pagoda]

it's arch linux so it's great

[obsidian mantle]

oh

what even is there

windows, linux... macos?

is it unix

[fast pagoda]

windows, linux, macos, BSD, unix, tizen, android,

[obsidian mantle]

isnt android linux too

[silent cloak]

more options would be nice

force companies like Microsoft to actually try again

[fast pagoda]

uses linux kernel but they are not intercompatible like 2 distros might be

macos uses the mach kernell

well

its kernel started as the mach kernel

[obsidian mantle]

meanwhile nvidia has monopoly on gpus

[silent cloak]

i mean AMD just needs to make better ones

[fast pagoda]

they have a monopoly on a specific bubble of the GPU market

[silent cloak]

NVIDIA invented it so naturally they are ahead in the game (well made them what they are these days back in the late 90s)

[fast pagoda]

nvidia started in a dennys

[silent cloak]

once ANNs die NVIDIAs empire will be cut down a peg

[fast pagoda]

microsoft almost murdered nvidia right at the start

[silent cloak]

until then companies should just keep trying

AMD just needs to step up

their CPUs are good

[obsidian mantle]

why would ann die

[rigid snow]

macos is a custom kernel (called darwin) which is mostly bsd code nowadays but based on mach. they got this kernel from the nextstep acquisition

[nocturne olive]

Sadly that won't make them run CUDA

[silent cloak]

ANNs will die because they suck ass and better options are in the work that dont need GPUs

[fast pagoda]

this is a very much longer version of what i decided to keep shorter lol but yes

i was about to say the word microkernel and was like

nvm

[rigid snow]

it’s a mess over there

[silent cloak]

is there another kernel called gumball?

[obsidian mantle]

will these better options require new hardware
is there a chance that nvidia just overtakes that too

[silent cloak]

na they researched them a long time ago

[fast pagoda]

at the very least they run on the standard oil model so they can come out of it with something that works quite well

[silent cloak]

they use neuromorphic chips which arent GPUs

so they are scared of them

(they stopped most of their public research on the subject)

[fast pagoda]

we forgot about the greatest kernel

the one that will change them all

gnu/herd

[obsidian mantle]

templeos

[silent cloak]

REAL

everything runs in ring 0

peak

[fast pagoda]

temple is continued now as zephyrOS i think it's called rn

[rigid snow]

what the fuck is a mmu

[warped narwhal]

memory maping unit

[fast pagoda]

wtf is it called

it's not zephyr

[rigid snow]

i know i was trying to make a joke

:badone:

[warped narwhal]

D:

[fast pagoda]

ZealOS

they added dark mode so it's modern now

[silent cloak]

proof that one guy can make a better system than windows 11

[fast pagoda]

does it say anything about my mental health that i like this ui somehow

[silent cloak]

its simple

not overly fancy

[fast pagoda]

it's pretty busy thou

[obsidian mantle]

font is terrible

half is black on white half is white on black

[fast pagoda]

dont look at my system font rn

[silent cloak]

the fork cant beat the OG

[silent cloak]

the new one glows too brightly

[fast pagoda]

oh yeah literally right to the left

my launcher icon is always this

[silent cloak]

u got the steam 2008 color scheme

[fast pagoda]

i do rn yeah lmao

[fast pagoda]

ye

[silent cloak]

my steam still has the old 2012-2013 theme

[fast pagoda]

you have your games organized like that

im scared

[rigid snow]

i have used a ui with this design language literally 3 hours ago

(i played cs 1.6)

[silent cloak]

fire

i just wanted the old theme back

[rigid snow]

still alive

[fast pagoda]

i havent messed with millennium but maybe i will

[silent cloak]

its pretty reliable

atleast for as long as ive been using it

i have the old 2008 steam theme too

[fast pagoda]

[silent cloak]

kek

[fast pagoda]

me remembering every time i see steam's package say multilib that steam is still 32bit internally

because they just cba

[warped narwhal]

I have it installed and it is so annoying when I type sl instead of ls, cause you cant even ctrl+c out of it.

[fast pagoda]

not uninstalling it and just accepting your fate also deserves that

[warped narwhal]

rip samsung g9 users when they run it by accident

they're gonna be waiting a hot minute for that train to pass

[fast pagoda]

w0w the 49 incher is prettty cheap rn

you made me search the odysseys

[obsidian mantle]

why cant you ctrl c out of it

[fast pagoda]

ctrl c is not a real interrupt

the program runnin can interpret it as it wants

[obsidian mantle]

oh

[warped narwhal]

in linux at least (IDK about windows) you can capture signals like ctrl+c (even a segfault)

[obsidian mantle]

but you still can shut down the terminal right?

[olive sable]

the va one or the oled one?

cuz the va one is not that great

[warped narwhal]

so if you get a segmentation fault you can just give the OS an uno reverse card and tell it to keep running

[obsidian mantle]

https://tenor.com/view/earth-globe-explode-gif-14366757

[fast pagoda]

there's a VA one?

[olive sable]

ye?

[fast pagoda]

it's presumably way cheaper

[olive sable]

its 700 bucks here

the oled one is 1.1K

[warped narwhal]

damn that is quite cheap

[fast pagoda]

that's the g5 i think that's VA

[olive sable]

nope

[fast pagoda]

yeah they have the oled cut from 1700 to 700-800 rn

[olive sable]

they all have va and oled models

[warped narwhal]

although £800 is $1k

[fast pagoda]

well yeah but i dont think they would call the VA one the g9 proper

[olive sable]

but they do

[fast pagoda]

wow

that's deceptive and i do not like that at all

[olive sable]

theres a french one for 600 here

[fast pagoda]

i'd get a number of mini-LED panels before getting a va panel over 500 bux

[olive sable]

but ye the oled is like 770 - 1.1K depending on the model

[fast pagoda]

well, regardless

i was talking about the OLED

[olive sable]

OLED G9 - G91SD, 770 euro
OLED G9 - G93SD, 970 euro
OLED G9 - G95SC, 1190 euro

here at least

[obsidian mantle]

[fast pagoda]

G95C is the model number for this but it is definitely an oled version

QD Oled specifically

[olive sable]

samsung themselves doesnt have them in stock so i cant see a price there

and 3rd part is all 1.1K

[olive sable]

the what?

"the monitor is not latina or handcuff proof" ???

[fast pagoda]

why are samsung so intent on hiding the panel their monitor uses sheesh

it doesnt really say OLED anywhere on this listing

that's actually quite irritating

[obsidian mantle]

its samsung panel

[patent shard]

if it's not OLED, it's most likely VA

[olive sable]

but va succcks

[fast pagoda]

there's Mini led between them

[patent shard]

not for contrast/hdr

[fast pagoda]

and also IPS still exists although it's hardly ever going to be in this segment

[olive sable]

assuming you will have more than 1 consecutive frame displayed on your monitor, va suuuucks

[fast pagoda]

im just glad TN panels are mostly out

[patent shard]

va also sucks if you sit close to the screen

[fast pagoda]

it was better than IPS was at that when it was more current

[olive sable]

really? ips is better than that rn

[patent shard]

actually, Samsung's VA panels generally aren't too bad with response time
it doesn't have as good as IPS in darker areas, sure... but it's def not terrible

[olive sable]

i had a benq ultrawide that was 144hz and va, and the ghosting was so bad i retruned it and bought an lg ips instead at non-ultrawide

[fast pagoda]

benq

there's your problem

[olive sable]

ah i see

[fast pagoda]

i actually have a samsung VA panel from semi recent right next to me

[patent shard]

some entry level va screens are utter garbage

[fast pagoda]

i had to return my alienware for warranty because it had a thing where it would just not turn on so they replaced it

[olive sable]

lemme get the history on that actually

[fast pagoda]

in the meantime i went and bought this thing for like $200

https://www.samsung.com/us/computing/monitors/gaming/34--g5-odyssey-gaming-monitor-with-1000r-curved-screen-lc34g55twwnxza/

it is

a monitor

[nocturne olive]

What's this silliness?

[fast pagoda]

mmointor

[obsidian mantle]

1000r

what kind of curve measure is that

1000 radius?

[fast pagoda]

radii

[obsidian mantle]

1000 of what

[fast pagoda]

i dunno dawg

[obsidian mantle]

probably feet

[fast pagoda]

my main monitor is apparently 1700R

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/alienware-32-4k-qd-oled-gaming-monitor-aw3225qf/apd/210-blmq/monitors-monitor-accessories

ooh they have the sale on this going again too

i bought this on this same sale last year

i should get another

[patent shard]

1700 rad

[fast pagoda]

oh

it's mm

[nocturne olive]

Sil
My secondary died yesterday
So now I have to wait for a new one to arrive
I don't really know much about monitors other than latency, resolution, size and refresh rate

[olive sable]

found it. it was AOC actually

[obsidian mantle]

https://tenor.com/view/fallout-radiation-rad-damage-fo76-rads-gif-25107681

[fast pagoda]

144hz at this point is gonna be a stinky panel

i feel like flat 144hz 27 inch panel is like

john monitor

[patent shard]

mmm, idk about that one
I do know their HDR ones aren't too bad response time wise

[obsidian mantle]

oh so radius in mm

[fast pagoda]

yea

[nocturne olive]

Once my new secondary monitor arrives I'll have 1440p + 1080p dual 165Hz
Hopefully that'll make Xorg more happy

[olive sable]

the lg one i bought for only 10 bucks more is still running strong to this day, very good monitor

[fast pagoda]

the 1700R i have found to be a good amount of curve

[fast pagoda]

and that's an ips

[olive sable]

yep

[nocturne olive]

Xorg was really unhappy at times with the secondary being 60Hz and primary 165Hz

[olive sable]

"nano ips" whatever that means

the 165hz number is actually underselling cuz it can do 180

[patent shard]

QD, I think?

[olive sable]

QD?

[patent shard]

quantum dot

[olive sable]

nope

[fast pagoda]

that's what my oled is

QDOLED

[patent shard]

nano should be quantum dot

[obsidian mantle]

quadruple double oled something

or just quad

[fast pagoda]

yes

nano IPS is quantum dot

[obsidian mantle]

qd quad hm

[olive sable]

oh

[fast pagoda]

it's lg's marketing term for it

[olive sable]

i did not know

i just heard the red looks less shit

they should market it in terms people actually understand lmao

[obsidian mantle]

wait its actually quantum dot and not quad smth

[fast pagoda]

IPS was the best for a while when it came to contrast and picture quality but it sucked at motion

[obsidian mantle]

i thought they talking sizes

[fast pagoda]

over TN for certain (tn fuckin sucked)

VA was around and was better than IPS for motion

"nano ips" is like a hybrid using some of the OLED stuff they have to make the backlighting better in IPS panels

made them faster too

better response times

[olive sable]

oooh

[patent shard]

I just looked at a random IPS monitor, the response time is really not that much worse than the VA one
actually VA had better average
maybe in the very dark areas, it gets worse.. but that's below 10% (which I guess isn't that dark)