programming

[rigid snow]

Today day : Useless
Experience: 103%
Goal : complete all project
Project: make ai more human like (agi)
2) Full Ai os
3) take other mistakes and learn it ( mean adding voice mode )
4) fixing bigram ram
5) making videos and audio generator
6)cheak system

[sage crag]

[rigid snow]

Hmm what about ai os ?
She will help in asm part or EXE TO APP FILES PART ?

BYE IM BACK SOO SOME ENGLISH CLASS
( I FAILED AT LANGUAGE SUBJECT)

[rigid snow]

||breakcode i need fix ascll || well today was tired day fixing some suss things and troll function

[rigid snow]

Can You Tell Me The Semantic Meaning Of This Message Please

ifeel like i'm losing my mind

break bye

[olive sable]

[amber fractal]

[sick owl]

https://tenor.com/view/husky-siberian-dog-cody-woof-gif-10159125698214328944

[olive sable]

huh

the game awards are happening

no wait

its "nominee announcement special" whatever that means

[opaque sigil]

Exactly what it sounds like, nominees being announced

[rigid snow]

fixing bigram ram

bigram ram is a bigram

[opaque sigil]

you good?

[rigid snow]

this 100s quote

i have no idea what the fuck a bigram ram is

but it sounds funny

maybe he means big ram

🐏 (large)

[silent cloak]

horror movies suck these days, if they want to scare me they should just show the Vulkan API

because working on this project while watching is still scarier

[olive sable]

745 watts id 1 horsepower

so my pc is one horse

[rigid snow]

no

[olive sable]

oh wait

a horse has 15 horsepower

[opaque sigil]

[rigid snow]

your pc requires one hp worth of power to function

[olive sable]

a horse has a maximum of nearly 15 horsepower but an average sustained output of about 1 horsepower
i think the sustained horesepower number is fair

so my pc is one horse

[rigid snow]

no

it requires one horse

isn’t one

[rigid snow]

this implies your pc generates power

[olive sable]

you say that as if horses do generate power

[rigid snow]

they do

[olive sable]

they convert power

wait

[rigid snow]

then nothing generates it

[olive sable]

im confusing myself with my bad arguments

[rigid snow]

go tell your diesel generator it’s now a converter

[olive sable]

[hearty notch]

more like dsl converter

[rigid snow]

:badone:

[olive sable]

if we argue semantics, it is a converter

but like, nobody uses it that way

[rigid snow]

uh huh

[silent cloak]

me stuffing as many horses as my PC case can fit

[hearty notch]

🎠

[olive sable]

a horse has to use more than a horsepower worth of energy

[silent cloak]

if cars are so good why are we still measuring them by horses

checkmate

[olive sable]

who said cars are good?

[rigid snow]

[olive sable]

there are only bad, tolerable, and okay cars. no good cars exist. each car has a flaw somewhere

[silent cloak]

careful some of my favorite streamers are cars

clearly someone missed neuro car

[olive sable]

neuro car does not have the power to run people over, in other words, a bad car

[silent cloak]

Ellie is working on fixing that

[olive sable]

good

so no good cars exist

yet

[silent cloak]

i cant wait for Vedal to start his own car dealership and sell cars hooked onto Neuro's API

[fair horizon]

By the same logic apples cannot run people over and they are therefore-

[olive sable]

bad cars

yes

everything that isnt a car, makes for a bad car

[silent cloak]

Neuro convincing drivers to take a sharp right turn into a cross walk

[fair horizon]

[rigid snow]

passat b5

[mighty thorn]

These Artificial Intelligence Virtual YouTubers are so fucking funny it makes me want to merge without looking

[silent cloak]

https://tenor.com/view/family-guy-minecraft-movie-hummer-guy-merge-without-looking-villager-gif-7130916293252774175

we need an edit of that

[olive sable]

fair enough

not perfect but good

[mighty thorn]

I could tbh

However it’d be funny to swap the color of his car to look like neurocar but I have no idea how to do that so I’d waste all of my time on that

[olive sable]

3D printing gears doesnt work well apparently

the tolerances are too bad

too much friction

maybe wd40 would work

wait, wd40 is corrosive to plastic

eh, cant hurt to try

[silent cloak]

i cant im too busy suffering with vulkan

[faint sandal]

[warm river]

i feel so unlucky that i managed to brick debian server after update

(debian)

[severe path]

It happens sometimes

[warm river]

is that bad that my own anti bot protection started blocking me out of my own shit

😭

[severe path]

No.

I think you may have misconfigured something...

[warm river]

it started happening when i updated docker tho 😭

i didnt touch config for while

it worked

[severe path]

Do you still have the old version?

I assume that the config files got overwritten.

[warm river]

i updated everything

docker related

and anubis config isnt even touched at all

[severe path]

Oh, that's weird.

Is Anubis your anti-bot library?

[warm river]

it just fixed itself wtf

i cleared cookies

and it started working again

[severe path]

@_@

[warm river]

well that was weird

[severe path]

I'm glad its working now

[warm river]

facebook scrapers are annoying

like i did put in robots.txt it to stop scraping my site

and it still does it

7k reqs per day are coming from facebook scrapers

[severe path]

Oh wow

I didn't know they did that. I thought that they would at least be a little courteous.

[lost hill]

They are scrapping everything they want nowadays, hence why Elon has gone completely insane and made the Twitter API paid. Not even Google Search doesn't have any good Twitter links.

Imo, the worst scrapper is Yandex. They weren't caring about your stances even before the AI hypewave, which is when most started scrapping en masse

[warm river]

yandex stopped scraping me for some reason

[lost hill]

Lucky you

[warm river]

its prob that i did put controversial shit on it

[lost hill]

How controversial does one have to be for Yandex, of all people, to stop scrapping contents?

[warm river]

idk

[faint sandal]

my Twitter scraper still works after my account was suspended

[lost hill]

Well, Elon did say that he wants to build a completely new codebase for Twitter exactly because it's not built for being private and stuff

Granted, he said it soon after purchase. I assume that professionals have delivered him the whiplash of the expected costs for such a project

[warm river]

how did you get manage to get banned by twitter

i saw that much fucked up shit on twitter

and nobody banned it

[lost hill]

You can literally get banned for saying the word ||cisgender|| because Elon Musk doesn't know what it means, lol

[warm river]

i didn't get banned yet for being trans on there lol

bsky lowkey better

[lost hill]

True

Check DMs for a meme

[dense sky]

Hello fellow enjoyers

[warm river]

Hello

[olive sable]

[dense sky]

Anyone here use eclipse?

[olive sable]

[dense sky]

Lol

Do you like java @olive sable

[olive sable]

never tried it

so idk

[warm river]

else if

[obsidian mantle]

elsif

[lost hill]

elif

[amber fractal]

eli

[rare bramble]

ei

[olive sable]

e

[olive sable]

ellie

[cosmic sphinx]

cl elon musk might be after my head now
i sent grok 4.1 a decoding task as a test and its been thinking for the past 20 minutes or so
imagine the amount of compute wasted if it fails aswell

[olive sable]

bro has already singlehandedly wasted kilowatts of energy

[cosmic sphinx]

oh btw @sick owl
ai studio has 'high' media resolution setting now

need some vision benchmarking for this 1

[sick owl]

Wait did Gemini 3 preview drop in there?

[cosmic sphinx]

no
not yet

tmrw most likely

[cosmic sphinx]

im cooked.

[sick owl]

Apparently Musk claims Grok 5 will be 6 trillion parameters

Not a fan of the guy but I appreciate that kind of investment in the field, will be interesting to see whether that yields any meaningful step change over current models

Will pretty much be the thing to either kill or save the scaling paradigm

[dusky jackal]

I'm 1000% fine with scraping, as long as the ones who are scraping me are Neuro and Evil.

Take my data, queens.

[olive sable]

AAAAA

[opaque sigil]

[olive sable]

I just needed to get some files from my windows drive, then it forced me to update, and now it says "nevermind"

one of these days im gonna rescue the 200gb of data i want to keep, and then im gonna nuke the windows drive

[mighty thorn]

You cant just

Like

Plug it in while on your Linux install

And extract them

[olive sable]

no

i cant mount the drive cuz of windows being stupid

[amber fractal]

We love encrypted NTFS

[opaque sigil]

if you don't have bitlocker enabled there should be nothing stopping you (assuming it's not in hibernation/fast startup mode)

[amber fractal]

It is probably fast startup

[olive sable]

its probably fast startup ye

[amber fractal]

Just disable it then you can mount

[olive sable]

i would if i was still in windows

but im not

[opaque sigil]

it takes maybe 2 minutes at most, stop being lazy

[olive sable]

you underestimate my laziness

[safe path]

chat

u stinky

[olive sable]

no u

[safe path]

im here now because im refreshing colab, waiting for it to give me an A100

[olive sable]

vanorstinkma ->

[safe path]

[opaque sigil]

thanks for reminding me i was supposed to send a support ticket today to get access to A100s again

new problem for tomorrow's me

[olive sable]

so true

everything is an issue for later me

[safe path]

if someone gets rich enough can u hand deliver me an A100 thank you

[olive sable]

just theoretically, how much do they cost?

[amber fractal]

I was doing some research on VR haptic gloves as one does. I'm not questioning how a HaptX pair just exists on ebay. Entire air condenser included.

[opaque sigil]

5 digits iirc

[olive sable]

oh no

[opaque sigil]

it's the last "affordable" data center gpu from nvidia

[amber fractal]

5000 or 10000 depending on 40gb or 80gb

[opaque sigil]

affordable being a big stretch

[olive sable]

is the 40gb model fine?

[opaque sigil]

it's the same gpu just half the vram

so

just buy a workstation gpu

[olive sable]

if 5K is all it takes to lure and trap a vanorsigma...

[safe path]

[opaque sigil]

true

[amber fractal]

[olive sable]

give me 5 months o gather the money

[amber fractal]

5k, good considering buying new it is contact only

[olive sable]

wait what

[safe path]

reminds me of that meme

[olive sable]

air condenser?

[safe path]

if you know what im talking about

[olive sable]

"that meme" is very descriptive

[safe path]

it is one of the memes of all time

[opaque sigil]

[olive sable]

i know what meme now

[amber fractal]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/126728705332

[safe path]

omg i got an A100 on colab

time to disappear for the next 5hrs

[olive sable]

so why does this thing need an air condenser?

[opaque sigil]

is the a100 the best gpu they have on colab

[tender river]

hi vanor

bye vanor

[safe path]

hi chay

o

she hates me

they hate me

[tender river]

not disappearing

fake

[safe path]

guh

instinct

sorry about that

[olive sable]

bye cuz you said you were gonna dissapear 5 hours

[tender river]

liarsigma

[amber fractal]

For what I understand, it is used for force feedback. Supposed to be used to grip virtual objects.

[tender river]

enjoy your a100

[olive sable]

thats actually pretty cool

[amber fractal]

This partcular company targets workstation applications, like slapping on a headset and gloves to control a robot.

[olive sable]

oooh

[opaque sigil]

ai

[amber fractal]

https://haptx.com/

[olive sable]

dk2 = devkit 2?

[opaque sigil]

no they're just big fans of donkey kong

[amber fractal]

[olive sable]

understandable

when they dont have a price on the website and jsut say "contact us", i already know im too broke for that shit

[opaque sigil]

oh so the idea is to use compressed air to simulate the force huh

[amber fractal]

Which is why I thought the ebay listing was insane

in line with similar

[olive sable]

The HaptX Gloves G1 are priced at
$5,495 per pair, with a discounted $4,500 per pair price for a bundle of all four sizes. An additional monthly subscription plan of around $495 is required for ongoing service, maintenance, and the Airpack system. 

nah what

[opaque sigil]

sounds about right

[olive sable]

monthly subscription at half a grand 😭

[amber fractal]

[opaque sigil]

you pay for the support mostly i'd imagine

[olive sable]

hopefully the ebay one isnt on subscription

the airpack hardware is included, so you should be able to mod it if its a software lock

but the sdk being locked is probably the worst part, cuz then you dont have the option to do integration

[opaque sigil]

not worth the effort having to RE the whole thing

[amber fractal]

login locked sdk

[olive sable]

bruh

ye not worth the hastle i think

unless you already know how half this stuff works and you can easily make your own software for it

[amber fractal]

https://support.haptx.com/sdk-download/ Nope

[olive sable]

sadge

[amber fractal]

Looking at more options, time to ignore whatever product uses this

[severe path]

I've never used an A100.
How good are they compared with something like an RTX 3060?

I know they have very high memory bandwidth.

[olive sable]

basicly, you're commparing a go-cart with a F1 car

[ebon willow]

It just gives an error code after getting to 50% with the update. No reboot just never updates. If you want a screenshot I can update the laptop to get the error code for you. Btw apologies for my delayed responses

[olive sable]

they're made for different things

[amber fractal]

Alright, down to either of these two due to https://github.com/Adjuvo/SenseGlove-API/

These use the well known string method for force feedback

[olive sable]

i would guess the V2 model is not worth double the price

[amber fractal]

I'm under the same opinion as long as the orginal continues to exist

This is already a reseller due to SenseGlove not doing direct to end user

https://www.knoxlabs.com/collections/vendors?q=SenseGlove

[severe path]

My god, I am too poor to get into that hobby.

[olive sable]

while the A100 has double the fp32 performance as the 3060, the main benefit is the massive amount of memory and the bandwidth. there's also some differences with tensor cores and stuff.

from my understanding at least

[amber fractal]

And time for the non force ones

aka buyable

https://www.bhaptics.com/tactsuit/tactglove-dk2/ Also makes vest and other stuff

[olive sable]

if i did more vr i might consider it, but rn its really not worth it for me

[amber fractal]

Not worth for me either, just doing research

[severe path]

What do you do with GPUs?

[olive sable]

i have a 3D printer, time to make one myself

[olive sable]

im a graphics programmer, so uh.. graphics

[severe path]

Neat.

Shaders are cool. And annoying to debug.

[olive sable]

most of the time you get some type of usefull error log at least

[amber fractal]

For what the A100 is used for, training AI as it is a lot more vram usage. They are pretty fat programs.

[opaque sigil]

yes

[fast pagoda]

1 ryot for when you have your shit together, another when your life is a total mess, based on these logos

[severe path]

Memory bandwidth is also a huge factor in some workloads, although I am not quite if (or how) AI utilizes it.

[fast pagoda]

it does

for speed mainly

wider pipe = more bandwidth

obv

[opaque sigil]

Speeeeeeeed

[severe path]

It isn't always faster. Some workloads are bound by other factors, like compute.

[amber fractal]

Sam be like https://github.com/LucidVR/lucidgloves/wiki

[severe path]

But then again, I wouldn't actually know, since I'm not an AI expert

[olive sable]

hell ye

[fast pagoda]

right but i mean the general time you'll ever notice it with llms is where the model needs to move data around, a 70gb model will be a lot faster to load from mem and generate on 10000GB/s vs 100GB/s

usually the model itself is what's moving

[opaque sigil]

Hungy tensor cores

Need to be fed

Ignore pre-fill since that is compute-bound

[fast pagoda]

the compute is less of an issue for the end user, it's just giving it enough memory, and beyond that, enough FAST memory for it to not take forever

if you have to put any layer of the model in system RAM vs vram it's like

10x slower

instantly

[amber fractal]

$60 per pair price point in parts

[olive sable]

not too bad

[severe path]

Are you talking about memory size, or bandwidth?

[fast pagoda]

well, size and bandwidfth

system ram is way slower

so that's the slowedown aspect

the issue of it being there in the first place is a size issue

[amber fractal]

So buying a 3d printer, all of the equipment, parts, and time is still cheaper than these

[fast pagoda]

even vram is too slow

many of the inference time speedups/enhancements are there to "cleverly" move the important things around specifically to avoid them leaving VRAM - standard attention will do like VRAM -> compute result -> write to VRAM -> read again to do your softmax -> write back to vram again for result

flash attention tiles things such that they can stay in SRAM

[olive sable]

vram is high latency but bigger amounts transferred at the same time

compared to normal ram

[fast pagoda]

plus system ram is physically far from the GPU

compared to VRAM

[opaque sigil]

Who could've guessed, close cache go brrrr

[severe path]

The time that it takes to move a model from the system memory to VRAM, is limited by the maximum bandwidth of the PCIe bus.

What I'm referring to, it the time it takes to move the necessary weights from the VRAM, to shared memory/cache/registers. That is what I'm referring to when I say "memory bandwidth."

[amber fractal]

Another example is nvidia releasing a JIT compute library for array operations, that was in here 1-2 days ago IIRC

[olive sable]

for random access ddr5 is faster than vram. its only for huge blocks of data vram is better

[fast pagoda]

yes, but it's all affected the other portions so they have to be mentioned

[opaque sigil]

The bottleneck is having to read cached values from hbm

[fast pagoda]

but yeah the vram itself is still bottleneck here

the bandwidth between GPU and VRAM specifically

[opaque sigil]

At first it's not an issue because nothing is cached yet so the tensor cores can go nuts and rip through

stoopid machine

Should just be faster

[fast pagoda]

flash attention for example tiles things so that the part being used can (or tries to) stay in the cache

[opaque sigil]

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah, sadly the moment your working set doesn't fit into L2 your performance drops off a cliff

[fast pagoda]

yep

[opaque sigil]

[fast pagoda]

ripperoni

looks SO GOOD till then tho

[severe path]

What kinds of programs do you write?

[fast pagoda]

anyways really from the perspective of running LLM inference (or training jobs) the maximum throughput of system ram is just the pci bus as the bottleneck always, because it doesn't matter how fast the dram itself is if it has to send it via carrier pigeon to be read and used

[opaque sigil]

I'm currently working on a GPU cuckoo filter for my thesis

[fast pagoda]

toast is the original creator of the toast notification

[severe path]

The model stays on the GPU the whole time @_@

[fast pagoda]

not if the model is larger than the vram

[olive sable]

im back in this godforsaken blender file
i need to make this more natural/wonky

[fast pagoda]

which is usually the issue for a consoomer

[severe path]

Oh

[hoary lion]

hm'

is it typical for huggingface models to separate lm head

[amber fractal]

A100 GPU has significantly more on-chip memory including a 40 MB Level 2 (L2) cache

[fast pagoda]

the beeg gpus have beeg cache for this reason

[opaque sigil]

The rtx pro 6000 Blackwell has a 128 MiB L2 which is nice but still not enough

Never enough L2

[fast pagoda]

wheer rtx pro 6000X3D

[olive sable]

ai devs on their way to ask for 16gb of 3d vcache on their gpus

[fast pagoda]

alreayd got ya cover

[opaque sigil]

Unironically please yes

[hoary lion]

js make the gpu entirely out of cache atp

💔

[fast pagoda]

[hoary lion]

https://tenor.com/view/think-thinking-thoughts-person-all-the-time-gif-1836332222206272183

[olive sable]

no graphics, no proccesing, no unit, jsut cache and tensor

[fast pagoda]

the KV cache becomes an issue even if the model initially fits in vram as well, the size of that grows as the conversation tdoes

so you start having to shuffle around eventually

[opaque sigil]

Isn't the kv cache usually fixed size based on the context window or am I misremembering

[hoary lion]

well

thats only for training

[severe path]

I don't know what a KV cache is...

[hoary lion]

in conversation it grows up by ^2

per single token

[fast pagoda]

the context (prior conversation)

[opaque sigil]

Oh maybe that's why, idc about inference that shit is boring

[severe path]

Yeah, I'm definitely not an AI guy

[hoary lion]

inference boring but training itself also boring

[opaque sigil]

All you need to know about the kv cache is that it saves a lot of computation

[opaque sigil]

True

ML boring

[fast pagoda]

training is way more fun than inference

at least training is surprising

sometimes

[nimble tangle]

KC cache is sorta interesting in that it can apparently store model intent https://www.anthropic.com/research/introspection

[fast pagoda]

on checkpoint 20874309284 maybe now

not*

[amber fractal]

So this is the goal of all AI bros

[fast pagoda]

i mean the context is literally the local model's output which is also its intent, logically following that, as it's stateless

[opaque sigil]

The algorithms are kinda neat

[hoary lion]

this is not the paper i expected

there was one kv cache communication paper

[severe path]

I hope I don't have to beg NVIDIA to keep FP32 cores on their GPUs...

[opaque sigil]

There are some epyc CPUs with over a GB of L3 iirc

dw

[fast pagoda]

the one avoiding recalculating it for multi agents systems?

@hoary lion oops

[hoary lion]

?

[amber fractal]

I was looking for that exact one but the L3 in this only goes to 384MB

[opaque sigil]

They'll just cripple fp64 as they've been doing

[olive sable]

i doubt those will be going anywhere on their consumer gpus, since we kinda need those for graphics

[opaque sigil]

It might've been a sku specifically for hyperscalers

Idk

[fast pagoda]

idk the only one im thinking of i was reading because of a multi-turn multi-agent thing i have been working on for way too long

basically was about how you can avoid re-doing the kv encode//constructing the convo history every time a new agent begins its turn

[severe path]

That's also bad

HPC guys are complaining about this

[fast pagoda]

might not be what you were talking about at all

but that was just because they often have mostly the same kv cache when it comes down to it so you can reuse a lot

[hoary lion]

oh ye thats correct ig

make them different lms communicate via kv cache instead of prompt output

[fast pagoda]

yeah im waiting for the firstr real production thing where they dont ever decode before arriving at an output

[opaque sigil]

Good thing there's somewhat of a solution for this at least, aka buy an amd card

[fast pagoda]

classic nvidia issue solution

[amber fractal]

I found (worst trade offer in history be like)

[fast pagoda]

classic intel issue solutoin too

[hoary lion]

how epyc

[fast pagoda]

epycally reduced cache

[olive sable]

i was hype for b580, but with how intel is going rn i have very litle hope for the next gen of gpus

[fast pagoda]

i like the radeon 9700pro

but uh relevant here

its bandwidth sux

cuz it's gddr6

[opaque sigil]

Hey Intel's GPU division has been doing pretty well

[hoary lion]

but noone uses it

[severe path]

It isn't quite that simple. Their architecture is different. If a program is specifically tuned for NVIDIA GPUs, then they might have to redesign it.

[fast pagoda]

the arc b50 had a bit of fanfare around it

[fast pagoda]

rocm is slowly getting there

[amber fractal]

Can we kill those two CPU skews

[fast pagoda]

and vulkan sometimes is surprisingly good lol

[hoary lion]

like is arc gpus worth using than chunky nvidia gpus on the cloud

[opaque sigil]

Yes then you go do that, it's not rocket science

[fast pagoda]

but yeah it's not the same

because of support

but people are doing it because nvidia sux

amd has also been much friendlier to linux and such

[amber fractal]

Like where is your L3 Cache

[olive sable]

L3 cahce

none

[opaque sigil]

I wanna replace my 5070 ti with a 9070 xt but I cba to write my thesis via ssh

[amber fractal]

https://www.amd.com/en/products/processors/server/epyc/4th-generation-9004-and-8004-series.html

[severe path]

Its not quite that simple for them, but okay...

[fast pagoda]

i do like seeing big l3 even tho it's just desktop big

[opaque sigil]

Speeeeeeeed

[patent shard]

9070 xt only made sense at $600
I guess Nvidia's 5000 series does have some bugs

[amber fractal]

Still more L3 than those two server cpus

[fast pagoda]

9700 would've been a buy for me at $999 probably

[hoary lion]

but like why we discussing L- caches

[opaque sigil]

Why not, they're great

[amber fractal]

caching

[hoary lion]

are #programming doing low level kernel writing or someth

[olive sable]

well...

no

[opaque sigil]

It's where all the performance comes from

[fast pagoda]

my 9700 doesnt run llama.cpp well guys, wtf?

[hoary lion]

https://tenor.com/view/ishowspeed-meme-trying-not-to-laugh-laugh-homeless-gif-9458928528704746136

[opaque sigil]

[hoary lion]

aint nothing gonna run with that

[olive sable]

L cache is good cuz cache is great and i love cache and all the everything is cache

[severe path]

No idea.

Usually, I would try to opt to make my working data smaller, so that I don't need a huge cache in the first place.

[fast pagoda]

i actually had one of these beasts in an old dell dimension for a while

it was shit

[tender river]

you dont interact with cpu cache as a kernel writer

[severe path]

Smaller programs = more speed

[tender river]

you interact with it as a software writer

[hoary lion]

ye this is not about cpu caches

i think

[amber fractal]

Triple typo (man I'm dead)

[fast pagoda]

it's just cache general atm

[olive sable]

even for gpu i dont think you interact with cache

[opaque sigil]

Technically you do

[fast pagoda]

it was about gpu cache then it became talking about server CPU caches as examples of thicc cache

[opaque sigil]

L1 and shared memory share physical sram

Does that count

[olive sable]

erm

[severe path]

Texture cache is somewhat programmable.

Shared memory is a sort of mapped cache.

[fast pagoda]

l2 is usually sram as well no?

l3 mostly dram

[opaque sigil]

Yeah

There's no L3 on GPUs

[amber fractal]

Apperatly some cards from green can do so

[fast pagoda]

yeah i just said to include it since it was mentioned before (in cpu context)

[olive sable]

i wouldn't know since the lowest i go is vulkan

[opaque sigil]

Actually true I forgot ptx can store/load from specific caches

Sort of iirc

[fast pagoda]

deepseek had a thing for it

[severe path]

Could you give me more details on that thesis program you're working on? I'm starting to get curious

[fast pagoda]

that was one of their talking points when they were talking about how speedy they were using ptx

let me find

[amber fractal]

I think most of us are just stating knowledge

[fast pagoda]

https://medium.com/prompt-engineering/deepseek-and-deepep-understanding-deep-seeks-custom-cuda-ptx-instruction-214d5408de6a

some nice mediumslop

[amber fractal]

how far medium has fallen, from I don't want to pay for it to I shouldn't be using it

[fast pagoda]

did it paywall? it didnt for me somehow

guess it's duh per user

[amber fractal]

I've gotten paywalled in the past, that was a fun research day

[fast pagoda]

the only thing that ever got me to pay from a paywall on an article was wsj because they offered like 6 months for $1

and i was like aight fine

i got scammed tho cuz i never use wsj even still

[opaque sigil]

There's technically a repo but it's uhhhhhh tied to my irl identity
The goal is basically just to take a cuckoo filter and make it run efficiently on an nvidia gpu

[hoary lion]

no more gems at medium

[severe path]

Oh. Yeah, you don't need to dox yourself.

It sounds neat, I hope it turns out well

[fast pagoda]

checked my wsj and found out we're still go for hype train despite the stock ticker and other headlines looking spooky

but it's ok because the moon will soon be a giant bezos face a la dr. gerald robotnik's ARK

im actually so nervous for the bubble to blow up, i feel like it's just gonna take my entire 401k and stuff and shred it into atoms

ripperoni

[hoary lion]

aint gonna blow up anyday 🗣️

and if it blows

[opaque sigil]

Thanks
The implementation is basically done tbf, it gets closer to nvidia's blocked bloom filter than I expected in terms of performance so I'll take it

[fast pagoda]

number only go U P

[hoary lion]

its so over

yall aint gonna see me ever again

[opaque sigil]

[fast pagoda]

yeah i dunno at least my retirement stuff is not all in nvidia or even tech since index funds but every member of those will still probably take a shit anyways
now my retail stocks are managed by a real expert, myself, and are up to the neck in nvda/pltr/slop/slop/slop/AT&T/GM/slop/slop/slop

so that'll be so joever i wont even bother to look at it

[opaque sigil]

Great time to be a broke student

[fast pagoda]

steve from GN would probably look at this and think it's a fishbowl for holding high temps and probably be right

but i wish nvidia wouldn't regularly use this image of this case but have 0 plans to ever manufacture or sell said case, and it's not a real case as far as i can tell

cuz i want one

so i can fill the front part with ugly ass hDD cages

[opaque sigil]

Doesn't hyte make something very similar

[fast pagoda]

yeah it's kinda similar to many of the fishbowl type cases

there was one at microcenter i saw but it was like 3 trillion dollars for a midsize case

[opaque sigil]

It do be like that

I like my black phanteks box

Except that it doesn't have space for 2 GPUs

[fast pagoda]

it was this i saw

i kinda like it except it's an asus product so i cannot buy it

i liek the intake vent line thingy

my corsair 4000D airflow has been pretty satisfactory overall

[opaque sigil]

The epitome of form over function

[fast pagoda]

i actually havent bothered to see how that intake vent actually works out

because i instantly disqualify any asus product from contention when i learn it's asus

[olive sable]

if you clean a vacuum cleaner, you are a vacuum cleaner

[opaque sigil]

Valid

[fast pagoda]

i liked my nzxt h440 but now would avoid nzxt

great for a nas box tho as it's now doing for me

[fast pagoda]

not quite the epitome when these ballers exist

[opaque sigil]

Okay but that's sick enough to make up for it

[olive sable]

im not sold on the pyramid pcs ngl

[fast pagoda]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYy7FRtUghw what about this epic shuttlecraft beamed back in time and shrunk to become a pc case

[olive sable]

what

[fast pagoda]

ergonomic

[olive sable]

no

i would not like that

[fast pagoda]

what you just have to take the shuttle hatch off, kick the pilot and copilot out into the vacuum of space and then you've got basically a table to put stuff on

[olive sable]

i odnt want my pc to be a modern art piece ngl

[fast pagoda]

and then nobody will know where your pc is

except for the random wires coming off the shuttle everywhere

[olive sable]

https://tenor.com/view/gato-rgb-gif-22003887

surely

[amber fractal]

The only non standard PC case I'd accept is something you can mount on your back for VR.

[olive sable]

at least the pyramid pc is able to be put next to a monitor withoutmuch trouble

the spacecraft pc woudl take up so much space

[rigid snow]

pyramid pc

[fast pagoda]

coolermaster has been selling a case called the cosmos for years that is just massive and idk what is so special about it other than it being made of like solid platinum or something but it's always been infinite money for some reason

[rigid snow]

what the jelly

[fast pagoda]

they keep making new ones

[rigid snow]

jelly

[fast pagoda]

surrender now

these are cheap enough that i hadnt considered i can just buy these

[rigid snow]

they ARE cheap enough

maybe a bit too cheap tbh

[fast pagoda]

cheap enough that the quality is worrying lol

at least with like open air "test bench" or the weird abstract stacked platform cases you really cant cheap out on materials that much because there aren't hardly any, anyways

[rigid snow]

it’s so bad i’ve been to an acquaintances place once and he had like a $500 build in it

[fast pagoda]

i want that to be me

[rigid snow]

or a similar one to the one you linked

[fast pagoda]

with my 4770k just sitting there like "wtf is my life"

poor old thing

whenever i grab a 5700 to put in my old x570 board to use that for the nas instead because god dAMN is the 4770k slow in 2025

[olive sable]

[hollow matrix]

AINTNEURWAY There's a button right here now

[fast pagoda]

i switched to vivaldi when i got the button

literally instantly

[hollow matrix]

BASED

[fast pagoda]

vivaldi is great also i recommend it

no complaints

[hollow matrix]

I used it at one point, then switched to Zen, then switched to Chrome because Zen was using all my fucking RAM

[fast pagoda]

yeah vivaldi is basically chromium zen//floorp

in terms of what it'll do

floorp is more off to the side

but

zen and ff are somehow so goddamn inefficient now

[hollow matrix]

Yeah, it seems though like Zen uses like 10x more RAM then FireFox

[fast pagoda]

i liked zen a lot but had to stop using it due to firefox itself being poopoo

and then zen was another layer on that

i dont even have ublock installed on this vivaldi instance and it handles it all without issue

[hollow matrix]

It regularly exceeded 4GB

[fast pagoda]

on windows my browsers would regularly crest 16+gb ram

[hollow matrix]

Let me guess, you don't close your fucking tabs evilSMH

[fast pagoda]

nope

1 billion tabber here

[hollow matrix]

@fast pagoda I don't remember, can you install websites as apps with vivaldi? I assume you can since it's chromium, but I just want to check

[fast pagoda]

Ye

I have cosmos.local as one rn

[hollow matrix]

Okay I'll install it

[fast pagoda]

i like tiled tabs (missed that from zen but vivaldi has it)

and it seems that whoever has the opinions on keybinds at vivaldi has the same ones as me because usually i'll guess some dumb keybinds for an action and it'll just be the default on it

[hollow matrix]

I'll be uninstalling firefox too, because I noticed that it sneakily turns this back on after every update

[fast pagoda]

kek

i have like 45 tabs open rn

had to count

and a few of them are VERY memory hungry

so i'm using 25gb of ram w/ vivaldi alone rn lol

which i dont understand

because the system is only reporting 19gb used

rn

[hollow matrix]

Is it more normal if you aren't a lunatic with keeping tabs open?

[fast pagoda]

i need to restart

so i can check

pretty sure yes though

chromium in general uses a lot of ram but it really just reserves most of it usually

it can relinquish it if needed

it just hangs onto it like a greedy lil buddy

[hollow matrix]

I don't even understand how browsers work, like is all this shit just to load favicons for tabs?

[fast pagoda]

that's a lotta vivaldi for not much

[fast pagoda]

favicons are a mess

every browser uses its own standard for it and kinda supports the others

ok restarting to see what kinda damage it is

[opaque sigil]

You can basically just think of browsers as operating systems, each with their own way of doing things

[fast pagoda]

they really are a self contained thing

electron is shitty docker

shittier*

[hollow matrix]

[opaque sigil]

CEF

[fast pagoda]

last site i did these are the favicons i included (webmanifest is kinda part of that)

afaik this covers most of them

shouldnt need one per page unless you have custom ones for every page

but like why

[hollow matrix]

Why can't there just be one standard smh, there has to be some way to make it all just use favicon.ico

[fast pagoda]

MOST support just favicon.ico and it'll work

but not 100%

[hollow matrix]

I assume safari is part of that?

[fast pagoda]

.ico is the issue

you can have several icons in a single .ico file

which icon is chosen is

up to the loader

from weekee

ok pacman finished brb

[hollow matrix]

I'm still switching, but I just noticed that they hide this in the context menu

[fast pagoda]

what is the benefit for a button to be right there anyways

is it an agentic browser now

or is it just a chat button

cuz like bruh

also cant restart yet because matrix and futurebound extended mix of magnetic eyes is going long but i can't say i mind (however i am required to listen to it in full if i hear it so i gotta wait)

.ico is old as dirt, it's like internet exploder 5 old

and now of course you have html5 which recommends multiple references per resolution of icon

and then apple being apple

[rigid snow]

who cares about favicon.ico

[fast pagoda]

and even chrome diff

i like favicon.ico :(

[rigid snow]

we live at a time when non hidpi devices are a minority

[fast pagoda]

hey my favicon.ico can be up to 256x256

big enough for many touch icons

[rigid snow]

right yeah forgot about that

[hollow matrix]

They make you accept something before using it

[fast pagoda]

that said i do have a 512x512 in that thing i posted up there

[rigid snow]

it’s just inconvenient for me

as a web dev

is all

so i hate

[fast pagoda]

i concur the entire situation is goofy asf but the humble .ico is less at fault than a victim imo

[rigid snow]

also the icon being defined in html makes more sense

[fast pagoda]

yeah that part i agree specifying it is good

[hollow matrix]

It seems to just be one of those browser agent things, but I will not be showing the popup because it leaks my name

[fast pagoda]

screenshots of my entire page and especially screen are personally where i can't handle it unless i have direct explicit control over when which this does give (according to it) but still gives me the heebie jeebies

i did test out project mariner earlier this year

but that doesn't use YOUR browser

it has its own

same as gpt's browser agent

idk how their "ai browser" works because they put it on mac only for the lulz but also havent tried the other "agentic" browsers since i dont want to get prompt injected -> financial devastation true combo'd instantly

browser use MCP and project mariner/gpt agent is the most i've gotten to there

i would've thought that thing would be mariner-like but i t seems like it's more local just screenshot sharing

not actual agentic stuff beyond the normal stuff it can do in the chat ui

unless im reading wrong

i should try it since this phone cgave me a year of google ai pro

but gemini 3 isnt on there yet so i dont wanna

[hollow matrix]

NAHH I'm not reading all that, I just tabbed back in to find this wall of text

Also,

[fast pagoda]

I just be talking

[hollow matrix]

Giving an option to hide branding is something google would never do in a million years

[fast pagoda]

yeah i usually hide the workspace button and then either hide that button entirely (put the menu up top) or turn it into a hamburger menu

[hollow matrix]

Another important setting

[fast pagoda]

vivaldi was using like 2gb pre-restart after closing all but 1 tab

restart and it's using almost 4gb on vedal.ai

but i think this is more of it grabbing ram for pages in my sidebar and stuff

i think those may just kinda be loaded once you load them

or even before

they probably get suspended in some way but like ill leave music playing on a sidebar tab and it continues as usual

just loading a basic page, CRAZY enough they are about the same

the random zsh prompt that spawned in this window is 80 million lines long dont mind that

[hollow matrix]

Works fine for me, I think this is just you

[fast pagoda]

i just think it's the whole "if it's there, it'll use it"

finally deleted swap

i dont think 128gb of swap was also needed on top of the ram

still hadnt run swapoff for like the last month anyways

[true hemlock]

also, uh, i need y'alls opinion especially from experienced overclockers.
last time i've been offered a 14900HX modt for $300, supposedly is a ddr5 board but it turns out to be ddr4. but im offered to have it be switched out to a 13980HX modt instead for ddr5 board but because its like $10 cheaper supposedly, i get 2 extra tubes of thermal paste alongside with that
worth?
at some point i have a feel that 13980HX has a better binning, but 14900HX in most synthetic benchmarks has slightly higher score but its most likely on stock settings
it could potentially be an upgrade since im aiming for overclocking, but not too sure

[tender river]

i love manpages

so much easier than googling

[young plover]

I always google man pages
can't be assed to view them in the command line

What's fantastic is when I run <command> --help on an embedded device and it doesn't work because the command tried to delegate that to man which isn't installed

[patent shard]

https://developer.blender.org/docs/release_notes/5.0/color_management/ cool HDR stuffs

[true hemlock]

really important note here. even slightly difference in binning would make the difference even if it means i can push just tiny but 100MHz more
its for overclocking, and im aiming to max it out, i know that extra 0.2GHz don't make any difference in real world but im practically just aiming for the numbers personally.

[olive sable]

https://youtube.com/shorts/bCYe0ZIZBwE?si=8mCzX2dxINrzQIOF

I love programmer naming

[tender river]

what is this

great standard C

[true hemlock]

imagine it just returns an RNG of non negative integer

like straight up rng

or, for some reason i don't understand, it picks a random unallocated memory address or uninitialized stack and do absolute value on it

[glad path]

if only the things i install could freaking HAVE MAN PAGES

[rigid snow]

alien pages

[fast pagoda]

nah you gotta go get htem online because frick you

[tender river]

get man pages for free with Amazon Prime!

[fast pagoda]

all i got was grubhub+ for free with prime

wtf

i want man pages

i did use man2html (or if broke horribly and i ended up using something else, cant remember) to do a crappy browser for it instead which is kinda handy sometimes

[glad path]

LMFAO

[jagged turtle]

I can't understand the paradox on this lmao

[glad path]

actually\

uhh

i mean that wouldnt be bad

i just leech off my parent's prime subscription

i get all the perks and im not paying

real email

but

i swear to god it looks like they used comic sans or something

[fast pagoda]

just looks like lucida grande or something to me

[opaque sigil]

This looks like every second sans-serif font in existence

[fast pagoda]

it's p close if not lucida

[opaque sigil]

The e looks a bit different I think, unless that's a rendering issue

[fast pagoda]

probably weird rendering, i was just resizing a screenshot over a screenshot

[opaque sigil]

That'll do it

Interesting, OnePlus gave out a 50€ voucher for the 15 and is now giving out a 100€ voucher for the 15r
Kind of weird logic if you asked me but hey I won't complain

[fast pagoda]

too long to stop the recording but

[fast pagoda]

black friday moment

kinda like google giving me 500 dollars to get the pixel 10

sure thing gogol ill suffer this heavy burden

[opaque sigil]

Not even that, it's a regular preorder bonus

[fast pagoda]

oh is it new

[opaque sigil]

Yeah

[fast pagoda]

i saw the other oneplus phone on sale, ig that's the last one

i liked the seethru

oh wait

that was nothing phone

i think

cant type

[opaque sigil]

Close enough

[glad path]

close enough

[opaque sigil]

I just wonder why the cheaper phone gets a bigger discount, unless it's not cheaper

[fast pagoda]

people that purchase the cheaper one are probably also more likely to hop on a good deal for the cheaper one whereas otherwise they might not upgrade

or something

idk

[opaque sigil]

Maybe

[fast pagoda]

psychologists working in their strategy dept decided it was worth it

[opaque sigil]

Numbers don't lie there has to be a reason

[fast pagoda]

google has a bigger discount on the pixel 9s right now as well

even tho theyre last gen

until there's a 10a they're that

[opaque sigil]

I'd get a pixel and put grapheneos on it if the hardware wasn't so awful

[amber fractal]

Not getting one plus, the last one we had no longer has a battery

[fast pagoda]

ive never had any issues with pixel hardware

my pixel 1 still woks

works

[opaque sigil]

I wish I could say the same, my 6 pro was awful

[fast pagoda]

i had a 6 pro (i think XL)

[opaque sigil]

[amber fractal]

I swear pixels are just built diffrently

they are either rock solid, or completely jank

[fast pagoda]

6 pro -> 8 pro -> 10 pro no issues with any of them other than where they forgor to have drivers functional for the gpu for tensor 5

good ones anyways

all my googole devices have been pretty solid

i'd say the worst of the bunch was the samsung nexus 10 but that's just because it was an old android tablet w/ like android 6 or something on it max)

[opaque sigil]

My 6 pro had a bunch of smaller problems that I could live with but the final nail in the coffin was a weird bug where the screen was locked to 60hz for a solid 10 seconds or so after unlocking the phone

[fast pagoda]

and that's a nexus not a pixel

[fast pagoda]

that's strange

nexus 5 was great too, as was nexus 4 and my brother had a nexus 6 that he liked

i think

[opaque sigil]

Every month I'd hope for a fix but nothing happened

There were also some issues will calls where I'd be super quiet half the time which yknow, not really ideal for a phone

I'm glad to hear your experience has been better though

[fast pagoda]

i remember hearing about people having bad issues w/ the fingerprint reader

on 6

[amber fractal]

I think the most jank phone I had was the LG V60. Something about that install was cursed, from the display completely blacking out to the entire system slowly dissolving into dust.

[opaque sigil]

Mobile reception was really bad for some people too, thankfully I didn't have that problem

[fast pagoda]

lol the v60 was an epic phone (that i also have sitting here)

still works

oh you know that already

[amber fractal]

Yep

[fast pagoda]

dual screen baybee

someone apparently has some sort of frankenstein build of android 15 working on sailfish (pixel 1)

i feel like that's basically impossible but it looked like that's what it said in the xda thread

[amber fractal]

That day was something, listening to music outside and noticing that "hey the screen is no longer functional after closing a malfunctioning app"

[fast pagoda]

that's happened to me on just about every android phone i've had in history

[amber fractal]

I only had it with the v60, but yeah I'm not surprised. Only recently an android system update made it so the service restarts

You'd think the compositor would autorestart if killed, but nope. Only implemented 3ish years ago.

[fast pagoda]

Linux kernel 3 nice

[nocturne olive]

SMOL

[fast pagoda]

Latest official build for the nexus 10 lmao

[amber fractal]

Phone sized tablet

[fast pagoda]

She's tablet sized

That's what the 10 is for

[amber fractal]

Though I actually have phone sized tablet

[fast pagoda]

is that a note

or a tab

tab a 7 or something

[amber fractal]

tab

[opaque sigil]

Samsung (typed on a Samsung phone)

[fast pagoda]

i was in awe of my buddy's note 5 back in 2015, i thought that phone was so cool

[amber fractal]

memory says 3 but I doubt it at all

[fast pagoda]

however i have still yet to own any samsung hardware besides this nexus 10 i think, most of the nexus devices were LG i think

[fast pagoda]

it'd be a tab A 7 because they are named based on their screen size

not the like model succession

or just tab 7

[amber fractal]

Ah

[fast pagoda]

idk what the difference is

i gues A7 would be the cheaper one

[opaque sigil]

I can't wait until this phone is being replaced and I can patch the kernel and do whatever I want

[amber fractal]

I love for all of these years it still has it's SKU tag on it

[fast pagoda]

there was an old crappy 7 inch tablet verizon sold that they branded themselves to be like the verizon ellipse 7 or something, i still remember one(1) review i saw while browsing their website looking for a phone upgrade at one point, someone had bundled that tablet in and hated it so goddamn much

they called it the verizon epileptic 7 all over the review

[gentle haven]

Making games is also programming right.

[fast pagoda]

i still chuckle about it randomly

[fast pagoda]

write one(1) lua script and nobody can say there wasnt programming involved

[gentle haven]

So yes

[fast pagoda]

this channel is for all technical things of that nature anyways

if that's hwat you're asking

[amber fractal]

I'd say mabe but I introduce to you https://discord.com/channels/574720535888396288/1336984748882399242

[fast pagoda]

there IS that also

[gentle haven]

Alright in the future I might be a game dev so

[opaque sigil]

Oh that is a thing huh

Good luck

[fast pagoda]

threads are kinda their own, slower forum thing

i miss phpbb

well, not like it went anywhere

i used to host a forum on a free co.cc URL back like 20 years ago for what has to have been like maybe 3 people total that used it for any time

i do not know if you can still get co.cc domains very easily but they used to be hella free

[opaque sigil]

I should write a readme for my thesis project at some point

[gentle haven]

I kinda have zero knowledge on programming as a whole but I am extremely interested and adaptable. (When I’m on coffee) so maybe planning is and preparing is the thing I am doing

[amber fractal]

Me and Sam both check this place often, we did meet each other from the first neuro game jam

[fast pagoda]

when game jam 7

or w/e it's on now

well, i guessin a month

[amber fractal]

we'd be on 3

[fast pagoda]

i figured but i didnt want to skip one

all the subathons/birthday stuff blends together

i cant even tell ya what happened last year vs 23

other than the long wait was even longer i think

[amber fractal]

I'm getting to that age, closer to 22 now than USA drinking age

[rigid snow]

gamedev

[opaque sigil]

The past couple years are all a blur

[fast pagoda]

they really are

[amber fractal]

I blame covid still

[fast pagoda]

especially literally all of the covid times

[rigid snow]

this message just means you're older than 21.5

[gentle haven]

I would say don’t drink but I can’t stop you

[fast pagoda]

i also would say don't drink

[opaque sigil]

Be a hydro homie

Don't die if thirst

[rigid snow]

it's about time to stop drinking by 21

[opaque sigil]

True

[amber fractal]

I have a good idea of what it would to me, so I'm choosing not to

[gentle haven]

Just drink cofffee

[rigid snow]

so 21 being the limit in the us has always been weird to me

[fast pagoda]

good

[gentle haven]

Coffee is the better choice

[fast pagoda]

in the us 21 is also about the time to stop drinking

heh

[gentle haven]

In Russia you drink at 7

[rigid snow]

ye but you get in trouble for drinking under it's like serious

right

?

[fast pagoda]

it's not great no

[rigid snow]

ye nobody gives a fuck on this side of the ocean

[amber fractal]

Depends on state laws, some states have interesting loopholes

[fast pagoda]

i dont know, never happened to me, closest was drunk gumby chase w/ the cops in school

[gentle haven]

Drinking minors I mean what can the police do but scold you

[fast pagoda]

give you a permanent criminal record

if over 18

but under 21

[amber fractal]

I'm looking at you "13 yo can drink for religious reasons"

[rigid snow]

makes sense

[fast pagoda]

wisconsin next door to me parents could let their kids drink

at discretion

but they had to be monitoring them

technically

[amber fractal]

[gentle haven]

I drank at like 11 but I completely stopped because I don’t like it.

[amber fractal]

those types also exist

[fast pagoda]

i had the classic "here if you want it so bad take a sip idiot" from my dad and hated any beer because of that for a long time

[gentle haven]

Only vodka taste good to me ngl

[fast pagoda]

i cant touch mango or peach anything due to burnett's peach & mango

it permanently ruined those flavours for me and i doubt itll ever recover, i hate them now

[amber fractal]

Unfortunately for me, I only have soda really. Don't need much caffeine to live because I never tempted energy drinks.

[fast pagoda]

i quit caffeine in college for a while

[gentle haven]

Soda? Eww

Soda taste horrible to me

[fast pagoda]

actually the hardest thing ive ever done in my entire life

[rigid snow]

caffeine addiction is such a mystery to me

[fast pagoda]

no exaggeration

i have never been more miserable

than when i quit all caffeine suddenly

[gentle haven]

Caffeine addiction

I forgot that existed

[fast pagoda]

i quit for a while and it got better but i was absolutely ruined for 3+ weeks

worst headaches ive ever had

sweating like crazy

basically totally useless

failed a class because of it

[gentle haven]

Funny thing

Coffee prevents my headaches

So I can’t relate

[rigid snow]

i can be drinking coffee thrice a day for a month, then just stop and never even remember i used to
smoking on the other hand is a completely different story

[fast pagoda]

that's addiction + it has some natural anti headache properties

caffeine that is (and coffee itself)

[gentle haven]

I don’t drink coffee THAT much

Only a liter every 3 days

[rigid snow]

like it can't be just me right

[fast pagoda]

this is my query regarding my adhd meds

i can just stop

[opaque sigil]

That's a common thing if your brain is wired differently

[fast pagoda]

i feel like i should not be able to just completely stop and not even think about it for like days to weeks

without some form of headache or soemthing

[rigid snow]

which is weird since afaik nicotine and caffeine are very similar

[fast pagoda]

because of my experience with caffeine

they are similar in origin ig

[opaque sigil]

I sometimes wish I had the desire to drink coffee more often

Is yummy

[gentle haven]

I think every body reacts differently obviously

[fast pagoda]

nicotine is like caffeine+++++

[gentle haven]

Good coffee does that

[opaque sigil]

But having nice beans go stale is just depressing

[rigid snow]

that's why you don't brew your own and just go outside

[fast pagoda]

in high school our school was rural so a bunch of students were hella all about that grizzly wintergreen and such

nicotine was ruined for me rapidly

[gentle haven]

I rather not brew my own coffee

I don’t trust myself to do that

[amber fractal]

For a while I actually had issues with caffeine in the soda doses. nasty heart pain. Though that eventually was figured out.

[fast pagoda]

throw a giant hammer in ur lip, puke everywhere and swear off nicotine forever, ez

[rigid snow]

i kinda forgot not everyone lives in a city

[gentle haven]

I drink coffee and green tea as one

[fast pagoda]

i kept thinking i was dyin in hs because of "heart pain" but it was probably just all the caffeine

[rigid snow]

are those pouches?

[fast pagoda]

they are what's in the pouch

but loose

[rigid snow]

if so: you're not supposed to swallow

at all

[fast pagoda]

no you are not

[amber fractal]

That was probably because of you having all of the caffeine without anything else in your food gutter

[fast pagoda]

you will eventually swallow a bit just from the way saliva works, kinda not avoidable in entirety

but the main issue is putting 25% of a tin in your mouth at once

[gentle haven]

just keep addiction at a minimum

Like me

[rigid snow]

then don't i guess

[fast pagoda]

well, the folks who are super used to it will without trouble

also it kinda hurts your gums so like might as well go berserk (bad logic)

[rigid snow]

nic tolerance isn't that strong to have any reason to

just like chill for a bit

[fast pagoda]

if you're a chaw'er it might be

there's a LOT of it coming out of those fibers

[rigid snow]

programming btw

[amber fractal]

Okay, not to break this one up. But I don't feel like summoning mods today

[gentle haven]

We got off topic

[safe path]

omg hi

wtf

[rigid snow]

beat you to it

[fast pagoda]

programming myself to uh beat uh addiction

uhhhh yeah

[amber fractal]

[opaque sigil]

[gentle haven]

That works

Programming can also be referred to brain stuff

[rigid snow]

wasn't me LMAO

[amber fractal]

Nah it was probably me

[fast pagoda]

it was probably partially my fault

[amber fractal]