programming

[jagged turtle]

that's also how mcp currently works

[hearty notch]

the reason the article cites for high failure rate in MCP is lack of training data

its bespoke

but i mean

over time itll learn and fold it into itself anyway

its actually that llms will self correct for over time

[jagged turtle]

yeah...

[hearty notch]

given the correct training architecture

it just made the landing of the concept bumpier than it couldve been

but oh well hindsight

doesnt matter now

[jagged turtle]

Ok, hot take here

I feel like MCP coming first actually simplifies the Code Mode thing

[hearty notch]

yeah defining its dedicated namespace to keep actually might have some hidden benefits in the long run

[sage crag]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1421861060507602944/1425936142754123927/neuroCatModeOfOfnnfOOf.webp

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1421861060507602944/1425936142754123927/neuroCatModeOfOfnnfOOf.webp

[hearty notch]

i get that argument

[jagged turtle]

since there's a sort of "structure" and "standard" around how MCP is supposed to operate

[glad path]

for the most part

[jagged turtle]

yea

[glad path]

tool calling will improve over time

[hearty notch]

yeah

[glad path]

newer models will be better at it

just give it some time

[hearty notch]

do we give anthropic credit for seeing that

maybe we do

i mean 4.5 sonnet is already FUCKING GOOD at tool calls

its use of subagents is insane

[glad path]

better to wait instead of inventing possibly faulty work arounds

[hearty notch]

just ask directly to use explore and task subagents in claude code it is truly insane already

[jagged turtle]

also I feel like the neuro api would've been more annoying to implement for multiple languages lol

if it weren't for the concept of AIs sending JSON with special tokens

[hearty notch]

ye

ok im sold mcp was right all along

the code mode thing is still a key insight for weaker models though

because theyre frozen

local models are frozen

[jagged turtle]

yeah

[hearty notch]

you wanna know how to optimize

[jagged turtle]

I think both MCP and Code Mode can co-exist

[glad path]

I am actually going to try writing a serverside for the neuro api ironically

[jagged turtle]

what lang?

[glad path]

python

I want to see if I can get neuro integrations working with my ai

[hearty notch]

is neuro api open source and are there any outstanding projects you want me to try to 0-100

[glad path]

not sure

[jagged turtle]

if it's python or js/ts there's already server side apis you can use to build with

[hearty notch]

@ me if you ever have a project for me to try i have a whole methodology i just want to try with arbitrary projects

[glad path]

I already have most of my framework working actually

[hearty notch]

ill do some random bells/whistles feature orthogonally if you ever think of one

[glad path]

I just think it would be cool to use existing neuro stuff

[jagged turtle]

wdym open-source btw

[glad path]

not most actually

[hearty notch]

i have no clue i was asking if it was open source (open repo)

[glad path]

but I have everything essential working

[jagged turtle]

-every ai vtuber developer ever after wanting their ai to play games

[glad path]

plugins and stuff too

[jagged turtle]

https://github.com/VedalAI/neuro-sdk

[glad path]

meanwhile me not planning to make a vtuber

[hearty notch]

fun fact my repo has 0 ai integrations im not even an ai dev lmao

ty for the link appreciated

[jagged turtle]

also now I'm waiting for the AGENTS.md file to be standardized

across all AI platforms

currently it's supported by ~18

which is a good chunk at least

[hearty notch]

the frontier coders that you want touching your code are pretty flexible about what goes in there but also selectively blind always

[jagged turtle]

?

[hearty notch]

you just always have to be vigilant for random violations and catch them

of your AGENTS.md directives

[jagged turtle]

yeah

biggest annoyance is claude code not supporting agents.md

I also dont like how AGENTS.md is not supported for GitHub Copilot code review, because then that means you'd have to create a .github/copilot-instructions.md

[hearty notch]

idk when i want it to be extra standard i just @a enter and its like less than a second and itll just load it in (i am very impressed by how smoothly files you @ load into claudes context in claude code its much better than the other coding clis rn)

[jagged turtle]

but it would then be used for copilot agent as well

[hearty notch]

i never want to touch github except for looking at my stuff, i hate github actions, i hate github copilot, everything feels 50x friction compared to doing it the efficient way in claude code / codex (for longer harder chunks)

[jagged turtle]

i find github good until you need the more specific stuff tbh

and then you need to travel through 50 different pages to find the toggle you need

[hearty notch]

idk it all feels bad to me ive built my workflow to avoid it

[jagged turtle]

shrug

git is git

[hearty notch]

i like git and i appreciate githubs features and willingness to host everything

[jagged turtle]

it really shouldnt matter who you go with

[hearty notch]

but a lot o the website itself is just pain to me

[jagged turtle]

it should be more or less seamless to do the same things across multiple platforms

[hearty notch]

ye

i love git i love everything in the cli ecosystem its been a revelation after ive gotten into it

[jagged turtle]

yeah

although actually

I wish it had some better support for monorepos

[hearty notch]

what are your pain points on monorepos im working on a huge one

wel solo but yea

[jagged turtle]

well here's the thing right

usually to work on a monorepo you check everything out all at once

that's fine when you work on the entire monorepo or multiple packages in that repo

but if you only work on one part of the repo (example: you are a backend engineer) you have to checkout the entire monorepo

[hearty notch]

yeah

fair

id just live with that but i havent worked collaboratively much

[jagged turtle]

also the contributors list doesn't account for the different packages but idk that seems like something that could easily be solved by github/gitlab/whatever (albeit more roundabout than the way I was thinking)

[hearty notch]

what would your most ergonomic ideal workflow look like

im actually building something that can eventually have a git clone plugin so

ergonomic prefs would be nice to hear

least number of keystrokes to maximum flow

[jagged turtle]

in terms of monorepos? well

I don't really care about keystrokes as much as many other people

but like

if a repo could have multiple .git folders checked in per package or smth

then you can choose to clone only that package

and then work on it as if it was a repo all on its own (albeit, obviously, being pushed to a monorepo later)

[hearty notch]

what about root .git creating discrete tagged namespaces and its just an extra -- flag to download only a subset of namespaces

[jagged turtle]

that works too

[hearty notch]

ok solved any other ideas?

[jagged turtle]

uhhh hm

I was gonna bring up the contribs list again but that's more platform than git

[hearty notch]

ye

mine is cli

its just that end

[jagged turtle]

honestly for now that's my only real complaint

[hearty notch]

@ me if you ever think of more

it may go into something real eventually

[jagged turtle]

oh also I saw that microsoft has a git fork for uh

monorepos

but like

that doesn't address my monorepo issues

[hearty notch]

actually 2 days ago i came up with a collaboration framework (upon further research apparently some google teams do a version of this) where in monorepos everybody has their own dir namespaces where they can forever feel free to push to without conflict

and that addition to git would dovetail with this pretty well

[jagged turtle]

interesting

[hearty notch]

the whole idea is thinking from first principles 'how do we minimize the impact of conflicts'

and designing so they just happen minimally in the first place

[jagged turtle]

oh wait

[hearty notch]

i mean modularization is already part of the way and microservices half exist because of htis but

[jagged turtle]

scalar is a thing

[hearty notch]

dogmatically enforcing it

whats scalar

[jagged turtle]

a tool to help use in monorepos

doesn't seem like it supports my thing though

but good to know

[glad path]

whats the fastest way to shut down a computer

cleanly or not

without destroying it

forcing a kernel panic would work right

[hearty notch]

nx / lerna are what my llms are telling me are possibly useful for your usecase

[hearty notch]

ngl unsafely holding down power button on my laptop has never bricked a laptop of mine

(windows only)

sparse checkout is the native git paradigm but yea its clunky

i mean my idea for just a bespoke list of dirs under namespaces in .git making tags feels pretty simple and obvious im just gonna go with that at some point

[jagged turtle]

@hearty notch this is the idea behind scalar

good ideas but I have to run a separate CLI to get those

[hearty notch]

ye

i should just build a properly fully modularized git

from first principles

tbqh

maybe next weeks project

[jagged turtle]

nx seems a bit much
idk about lerna

[hearty notch]

like changing the push/pull paradigm for people to be able to frankenstein monorepos and enter them from either their modular components or from the whole thing and have every possible interaction feel ergonomic

git can be forced into doing this but its ugly rn

[jagged turtle]

yeah

[hearty notch]

ok im gonna call it frankenstein and release it on halloween

gl me

[jagged turtle]

lerna seems better since it has more documentation on how it supports pnpm (which is basically a must for monorepos)
nx is kinda confusing

[hearty notch]

i see

i wasnt looking into either ive started looking into how to do frankenstein lmfoa

i actually ahve some built architecture already that lends itself to duplicating git less (an append only event store server core just like git)

content addressed blobs too i basically copied git already lol

[jagged turtle]

loooooooooool

[hearty notch]

see claude knows

ok i named it frankengit but hm it has some questionable abbrevs maybe i should rename it

i was like 'yea sure fgit' and i was like 'hmmmmmm'

ok the alias is fra thats nice and one handed

its gonna be a git wrapper but it uses a local server to decrease actual content movement duplication and it has switch-module to switch between namespaces

ty for the idea

[jagged turtle]

nice

[opaque sigil]

https://git-scm.com/docs/partial-clone this apparently exists but idk how usable it is

[hearty notch]

i have become unduly convinced i can remake ergonomic versions of a lot of things so now im stress testing that by trying it with everything i can find

@ me with all your dev pain points ever

[opaque sigil]

can you fix my inability to write efficient gpu code

[hearty notch]

no im noob

[opaque sigil]

[hearty notch]

[keen hatch]

vllm is a cool thing...

INFO 10-25 14:45:10 [loggers.py:127] Engine 000: Avg prompt throughput: 56.7 tokens/s, Avg generation throughput: 190.5 tokens/s, Running: 7 reqs, Waiting: 0 reqs, GPU KV cache usage: 63.4%, Prefix cache hit rate: 59.6%

[hearty notch]

any t3.chat enjoyers here?

[olive sable]

surely it cant be that bad

i guess try to use buil in functions as those are bound to be efficient?

[opaque sigil]

there are none

[keen hatch]

Avg prompt throughput: 142.1 tokens/s, Avg generation throughput: 214.9 tokens/s, Running: 8 reqs, Waiting: 2 reqs, GPU KV cache usage: 97.7%, Prefix cache hit rate: 44.9%
Avg prompt throughput: 82.7 tokens/s, Avg generation throughput: 248.5 tokens/s, Running: 10 reqs, Waiting: 0 reqs, GPU KV cache usage: 99.2%, Prefix cache hit rate: 45.4%
Avg prompt throughput: 82.7 tokens/s, Avg generation throughput: 252.7 tokens/s, Running: 8 reqs, Waiting: 2 reqs, GPU KV cache usage: 95.0%, Prefix cache hit rate: 43.5%
Avg prompt throughput: 0.0 tokens/s, Avg generation throughput: 185.3 tokens/s, Running: 7 reqs, Waiting: 3 reqs, GPU KV cache usage: 96.1%, Prefix cache hit rate: 42.9%
Avg prompt throughput: 155.3 tokens/s, Avg generation throughput: 191.7 tokens/s, Running: 7 reqs, Waiting: 3 reqs, GPU KV cache usage: 95.5%, Prefix cache hit rate: 50.5%
Avg prompt throughput: 18.9 tokens/s, Avg generation throughput: 211.1 tokens/s, Running: 6 reqs, Waiting: 4 reqs, GPU KV cache usage: 92.4%, Prefix cache hit rate: 53.3%

[olive sable]

what gpu code language are you programming in?

[opaque sigil]

cuda primarily

[hearty notch]

2lowlevel4me

respect

[olive sable]

idk what cuda even looks like so

[keen hatch]

~200t/s generation - mistral small 24b q8 on single 5090

[hearty notch]

are you benching local models

do you have a favorite

[keen hatch]

deepseek v3.1 671b

[opaque sigil]

it's just an ever so small superset of c++

c++20 atm iirc

[hearty notch]

yea not surprised

if you can run that thats just gonna easily be one of the best

nice that you can run that thats crazy

actually i have no clue what the requirements are i dont run local models

[olive sable]

oh

immagine good c++ code

[keen hatch]

I can run it, but it's slow... ~7t/s

[hollow matrix]

smh microsoft not testing that things they build into an app don't prevent the app from working

[hearty notch]

classic microsoft

bro i looked into liek what it takes to render docx yesterday

its

its horrifying

what an ecosystem to have to maintain

i do not envy microsoft engineers

[opaque sigil]

don't you love xml

[hearty notch]

its basically as convoluted as v8 because just like v8 has to support all the older web standards, docx has to support all the older versions of doc

anyway toml master race 🦀

[keen hatch]

I can even run the Kimi-K2 (Q2), but I don't like the personality of this model.

[hearty notch]

yea deepseek is more attuned like that classic gpt-4 feel

kimis a bit differnet i agree it feels a bit less personable and like a bit nuance-blind

it lacks some english nuance actually

[hollow matrix]

I checked this for the document I put a list of the search history from Neuro that Vedal read on stream in, and every single list item is like 20 lines long when the xml is formatted

[hearty notch]

btw the end result of this investigation was discovering pandoc which is amazing

[hearty notch]

lmfao

[opaque sigil]

oh yeah pandoc is a treasure

[hearty notch]

if you ever need to convert docs pandoc exists and its HASKELL wtf

(im ignorant i got into coding kinda recently)

[hollow matrix]

HOLY

[hearty notch]

lmao

xml moment

[hollow matrix]

370 lines of this

excel is stupid too, the file on the right contains the values of each cell, and the file on the left determines the content of each cell using the nth value in the file on the right, (ex: <v>2</v> gets the content of the second item of the file on the right)

Or thats how I assume it works, just looking at it

[hearty notch]

grrrrrrr i cant make bespoke pandoc because gpl would infect my binaries

grrrrr gpl

[opaque sigil]

[olive sable]

[prime ridge]

You should write SASS 😏

Who doesn't love GPU machine code

[olive sable]

glsl my goat

[hearty notch]

what installation method do you prefer

for frankengit

ill publish crates by halloween either way but ill do ur fav first

[opaque sigil]

[grave tapir]

hey I’m trying to start learning how to use python and wanted to ask should I download the python app from python.org or should I use something else

I have no experience in anything relating to this btw this is something I wanted to learn

[hearty notch]

what platform are you on

[grave tapir]

Using mac

[silent cloak]

i was building a game engine all day

im exhausted

i drank a bunch of gin for motivation

[hearty notch]

brew install pyenv openssl readline sqlite3 xz zlib tcl-tk in your zsh terminal

# Add the following lines to your ~/.zshrc file export PYENV_ROOT="$HOME/.pyenv" command -v pyenv >/dev/null || export PATH="$PYENV_ROOT/bin:$PATH" eval "$(pyenv init -)"

llms are your best friend for learning btw im dead serious

[grave tapir]

llms?

[hearty notch]

then pyenv install --list

as in ai chatbots

[grave tapir]

Ah

[hearty notch]

large language models

[grave tapir]

Alright I’ll try it out thanks

[hearty notch]

you have to restart the terminal after saving to zshrc

nano ~/.zshrc this opens up your zshrc file its your main terminal config

a lot of your dev tools end up having you saving things into there in general

(nano is the most basic text editor in terminal)

(vim and nvim is what people who get used to writing code efficiently usually go towards nowadays)

[grave tapir]

What’s the difference?

[hearty notch]

a lot of things about how you navigate and edit text but i dont actually do that i mostly use ai to code

[grave tapir]

I see

[olive sable]

imagine seeing

[grave tapir]

[hearty notch]

xig do you have a first project in mind

[grave tapir]

Not really

Just installing the things I need

Rn

What’s something I could start with

[hearty notch]

tbh i cant relate to wanting a starter project, i went the other way around, i had things i wanted to do and then i forced my way to doing it

the question is really why does programming interest you what kind of programming subfields do you think youd be excited to explore

what would you be proud to make

[grave tapir]

Eventually I’d want to be able to make something like a game but I’d also want to be able to program things that would have function in real life

[hearty notch]

theres a concept called dogfooding where you identify your own pain points and gaps in your software experience and then you build projects around solving those

and making life easier for yourself

if you do it enough youll find someting that generalizes to helping others

just keep that in the back of your head

you dont have to have any epiphanies now

but if you ever think 'i wish i had software to x'

remember it and build on it

[grave tapir]

I got it

I know what I want to do now

[hearty notch]

ok ask ai chatbots how to build it

thats my advice

say exactly the shape and experience you want

and ask for a tutorial on building it yourseslf

btw after youre done with python get into rust asap its so good

[grave tapir]

What’s good about rust

[opaque sigil]

[hearty notch]

1. the error system and compilation system is extremely strict and catches a lot of errors at compilation time, meaning there are entire classes of runtime (my thing is running but has weird bugs) errors that cant exist as long as you get to compilation
2. the fact that it compiles at all means you can turn your code into efficient executable binaries (single files) stripped of comments and debug stuff inside
3. great ecosystem, lightweight, lots of cross-platform tooling

(ask the chatbot about compiled vs interpreted languages if you want a wider overview of the comparison)

(also strictly statically typed vs dynamically typed languages)

well theres one thing thats not lightweight about it is that if you build complexx stuff itll make build artifacts that bloat your project dir but

you just have to learn how to clean that

[grave tapir]

Do you use it the most then?

[hearty notch]

now i do yea

i went on a journey from python -> node.js -> elixir -> python -> elixir/svelte/typescript/vite -> tauri/rust

[opaque sigil]

i love how elixir is just in there

[hearty notch]

elixir my beloved

rust is just better tho im sold

most things simply do not need the BEAM

and rustlike solutions end up being more efficient a vast majority of the time

[grave tapir]

I should start rust after I learn python though right?

[hearty notch]

rust has a more annoying learning curve its up to you if you enjoy it

imo if you get over it itll feel good

[opaque sigil]

if is the keyword here

[hearty notch]

but i also dont know what thats like because i have ai do most of my rust coding my real hobby is architecting and seeing if i can draw schemas and architectures well

[grave tapir]

That’s pretty cool

Anyhow I’m off to start my adventure

[hearty notch]

have fun gl @ me if you want more advice i like talking about programming even tho i dont literally type code

[grave tapir]

Yuh

[opaque sigil]

if you need help with anything you can always just ask here, chances are someone can probably help

[rigid snow]

[uneven pulsar]

I made Phone version of ai smart no nano model or deep seek running

[olive sable]

audio in steamvr doesnt work, but specifically not for vr apps

and my sudo doesnt accept my passowrd now

something is seriously wrong withtwhatever settings my arch has

[uneven pulsar]

My network status

🏓 Pong!
• Client: 510 ms
• Discord API: 791 ms
• Server: 61 ms

[uneven pulsar]

Have u added driver into arch ?

[olive sable]

there is no driver for arch

[rigid locust]

I just started figuring out coding. Is it really as simple as 1 + 1 = 2 so on and so forth? I know thats kind of a weird analogy but i hope that makes sense

[uneven pulsar]

I know it Python 🐍
Status {#neurotic-neurons}

[rigid locust]

In a weird way it seems like it can be boiled down to: input > process > output

[hollow matrix]

If you want to learn coding you should start with brainfuck

[ivory plinth]

AINTNEURWAY

[rigid locust]

Im starting to learn using Sololearn since i dont have a laptop or a pc

[hollow matrix]

tf is sololearn

[rigid locust]

App for learning coding 🤷‍♂️

[keen hatch]

[████------------------------------------] 10.9%
Items: 4413/40546
Speed: 0.17 items/sec
Elapsed: 38m 16s
ETA: 2d 10h 31m

[hollow matrix]

Oh, I don't speak German

[rigid locust]

Im gonna be honest the biggest thing i gotta learn is just the actual process, the principles seem simple enough

[glad path]

i kind of have to agree

[rigid locust]

Yeah idk what weird setting you have on your pc but its not in german on my end unless i somehow learned another language without trying

[glad path]

being able to make your own utility software is a major benefit of knowing how to code

[hollow matrix]

Or that's where it's most popular so that's what google puts as the first result

[hearty notch]

yes everything is deterministic, if you follow the rules, the rules are followed

[rigid locust]

Thats a possibility lol

[hearty notch]

it is an extension of pure math

[rigid locust]

It’s honestly cool as hell, its so simple if you just think think about it like input leads to process leads to output

[hollow matrix]

gtg

[hearty notch]

yes its beautiful i agree

[rigid locust]

See yah

[hearty notch]

i love math and science in general

[rigid locust]

Me too, i passed geometry with a 100 total lol only thing i struggled with was algebra but i passed that with a 80

[uneven pulsar]

Yo

What the fuck my ai bot DOING?

[hearty notch]

frankengit is going well

[rigid locust]

Its honestly weird that you could think about chemistry like programming, the input is the starting ingredients (your strings, your variables, your functions, ect.) the process is whats happening within the chemicals as they are mixed (the actual code writing) and the output is the change of color, the change of density, so on and so forth (what happens after the code has been ran.

[hearty notch]

literally everything is cause and effect mediated by the laws of nature

tahts why the theory of everything and cosmology is so enticing

because you just wanna know all of it at once

[opaque sigil]

sadly this kind of falls apart when you need to interact with the messy outside world

[hearty notch]

well i was talking about software but tbh you just need to learn outside world rules better theres levels to the skill curve

[rigid locust]

YES! And its so weird, i just started the process of learning coding and i can already tell that so long as i can get a grasp of the very very basic language you need for it, im like 88% certain i could write coding that does pretty much whatever i need it to do

[hearty notch]

yes

its so powerful

and fun

[rigid locust]

Im so glad i decided to try to learn coding. I can honestly thank vedal tbh, his ai is sending me down a life changing rabbit hole lmao

[hearty notch]

i also credit neuro with embracing llms fully lmfao though tbh i probably wouldve without neuro

i do think people do not respect the skill curve of llms and you can get so much more out of it than people think

[uneven pulsar]

Does anyone in here know gdscript

[hearty notch]

claude and chatgpt do

[uneven pulsar]

[uneven pulsar]

I NEED llm of neurosama

[rigid locust]

Thing is i didnt realise just how simple it could be, not because i hadnt tried before (which rings absolutely true) but because i didnt have an interest in anything to do with it

[hearty notch]

do you have a project in mind youre working on now

[rigid locust]

I dont have a pc or laptop unfortunately, so im stuck to learning the very very basic language without actually being able to test it. But i should be able to get one in the next few months

[hearty notch]

hmmm

[uneven pulsar]

Do you have two devices?

[hearty notch]

ill help you research best setups for purely coding on mobile

[rigid locust]

No

[uneven pulsar]

termux for running code + code studio for writing code

[uneven pulsar]

Oh sad, I believe in your abilities though

Coding on a phone is not impossible

[rigid locust]

No but i do know what i want to do once im able to, something simple like a ball that bounces across the screen when you click just to grasp the basics further

[uneven pulsar]

What language ya learning?

[rigid locust]

Nothing special, just python

[uneven pulsar]

Ooh

that's nice

[hearty notch]

yea this fellows right termux is probably your best bet

[rigid locust]

Installing it now

[uneven pulsar]

I also chose code studio because it's by far the closest thing I've found to vscode that isn't awful to use

[rigid locust]

I know for a fact i wanna have the basics down to a t before i go further

[hearty notch]

python basics are hard to mess up and develop bad habits in

[uneven pulsar]

Most of the others have some really weird file managers

[hearty notch]

also you can always copypaste and ask if htere are code smells (this is jargon for bad coding habits)

[uneven pulsar]

Stroke?

[rigid locust]

I only want to limit myself just so i have a solid foundation to go from yknow?

[hearty notch]

no im giving advice that if somebody is learning programming, they can copypaste their full files along with the prompt "does this have any code smells" to any llm and it will give a decent answer

[uneven pulsar]

I've also heard pydroid is good for working with python on android. Do you have an android?

[rigid locust]

No im on ios

[uneven pulsar]

Oooh

I don't know about coding on ios but, there's actually a fair amount of people coding on Mac

[uneven pulsar]

It actually seems quite nice

[hearty notch]

code app sounds like it might be your thing

try it imo

actually i cant find it hold on

[uneven pulsar]

Hopefully not an ai hallucination lol

[hearty notch]

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/code-app/id1512938504 i guess its this one but its 4 stars which is worse sthan i expected for top rec

not hallucination, real

#8 most popular dev tool on ios

[uneven pulsar]

oh nice

I remember there was one app for ios specifically catered to game dev

That one's in lua though

[hearty notch]

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/python-coding-editor-ide-app/id6444399635

python straight up has a native app for ios

and it has a higher star rating

so maybe this is your answer if youre sticking to python for awhile

[uneven pulsar]

It's also best to have termus lying around

termux*

[rigid locust]

Code app is 7$

[hearty notch]

python is free

just try python why not theres no way you can develop bad python habits in python

[rigid locust]

Yeah i just got that one

[uneven pulsar]

By the way, want some quick advice on termux?

[rigid locust]

Hm?

I noticed i cant delete accidental new lines

[uneven pulsar]

So, in terminals when you run code, you usually stop the code by hitting CTRL C

[rigid locust]

I cant do dat lol

[uneven pulsar]

CTRL is not a thing on mobile, which is why termux has a CTRL button at the bottom

when you press the CTRL button, it lights up

then you just press the c key and it should stop the program running

[rigid locust]

Yeah thats a little weird lmao

[uneven pulsar]

It is, it did also take me like 50000 years to figure out

[rigid locust]

Lmao, i think ill stick with the python app lol

[uneven pulsar]

Alright

[rigid locust]

Oooh so i just figured out that by putting the name of variables and subtracting the name of another variable i can essentially make a health system

For example:

[hearty notch]

youll love terminals eventually but it is so much nicer on a real keyboard than on mobile

[rigid locust]

Simple simple stuff

[hearty notch]

so putting off learning terminals is fine

[uneven pulsar]

True

By the way you're going to be forced to like terminals if you actually desire to even do anything

[rigid locust]

Yeah a real keyboard i bet will be easier for me but for now ill stick to this

[uneven pulsar]

I don't know about mobile but, on the computer you'll use the terminal for like a shit ton of stuff

Installing packages, checking errors, httprequests

[rigid locust]

Its good to learn the basics on mobile and then swap to computer to go further in depth

Thats my mindset

[uneven pulsar]

You do you, good luck though

[hearty notch]

maybe i should look for educational coding apps for mobile because if youre in the concepts stage those could be the best answer for that

rather than like sandboxing the ide

but honestly im gonna be so real paying 8 bucks a month for t3.chat and interrogating your favorite model on exactly what you want to know about coding

is so much better than any app

thats like my #1 recommended educational path

[uneven pulsar]

By the way, one advice I have is to not switch around too much. You've chosen python now, it's probably best if you keep at it till you feel like you learned enough to go to anything else if you wish. I can say from experience that, learning only half of like 4 languages isn't very fun

[rigid locust]

Honestly im planning to stick with python, i know that its kinda the baby mild of the coding world but i think that its definitely gonna be worth using the easiest to learn in the long run

[uneven pulsar]

That really depends on what you want to do. Most programmers don't stick with one single language because they want to do a lot of stuff

[rigid locust]

Plus im pretty sure a majority of businesses use python anyway so that creates some job opportunities as well

[uneven pulsar]

True

[hearty notch]

no ai is too good at coding

you cant compete

[uneven pulsar]

Python is pretty good for web dev aswell

[rigid locust]

Ill swap eventually, but i wanna have at least mastered one before i figure out another

[uneven pulsar]

That's smart

[rigid locust]

Once i have python mastered thatll make it easier to grasp and learn another language.

[uneven pulsar]

I always lose motivation halfway into learning a language because I force myself to take too much in and it becomes overwhelming. I actually nearly learned javascript in one week

But I also then proceeded to never touch it again afterwards

[rigid locust]

Is it really possible to learn programming languages that easily?

Like to a complete and full understanding?

[uneven pulsar]

Depends how you do it

[jagged turtle]

idgaf

but I mostly use python and js so

sorry

[hearty notch]

what platform are you on again

do you brew

[jagged turtle]

but if you make it a pre-built binary I'll also take it (surely it won't be malware)

[uneven pulsar]

I usually learn languages by finding a really big course, like something that's 30 hours long, and watching around 1-2 hours of it per day

[jagged turtle]

win/linux

[hearty notch]

oh ok same

[uneven pulsar]

Big take away is that I always follow along with the course though

It's never blind watching

But I don't recommend doing it my way, because you'll never manage to learn any language that fast without ruining the fun

it would feel like homework

[rigid locust]

So my full plan is to learn python because its easy to use and easy to learn, which will then give me the understanding to learn another programming language. Im not sure what language i want to learn afterwards, but i know that whatever language i end up picking will most likely be versatile and very very hard to understand so i can still do things with python and learn a more advanced language once i start working on a personal assistant AI.

[hearty notch]

RUST

🦀

[uneven pulsar]

Holy shit

no

You're going to kill him

[hearty notch]

do you tell people not to play dark souls

????

rust is the dark souls of programming

it is very rewarding

[uneven pulsar]

Depends what they want to do with their life

[rigid locust]

I was thinking more along the lines of javascript and migrating up and up until i learn most of the most common languages

Lol

[hearty notch]

more of a pokemon player than a dark souls gamer i see

(i think of pokemon because the js ecosystem is sprawled out and has so many mons)

[rigid locust]

Gotta learn em all lol

[uneven pulsar]

Learning something like python before javascript definetly helps. Javascript is notorious for being a bit scuffed

[hearty notch]

bun/deno are kinda exciting you might wanna look into them at that stage (theyre evolutions of node.js)

but also react is gonna dominate

you must learn react probably idk

[rigid locust]

It could be cool to make a “script translator” once i figure out enough languages.

But idk

[hearty notch]

ais do it 100x faster than you ever could itll only ever be a hobby

[uneven pulsar]

So like, a compiler?

Something like compiling kotlin to java

Or wut

By the way this is kind of information overload. Don't worry about the other shiny languages out there and just focus on your python journey for now

[rigid locust]

Something like that. More like a public domain language translation, like take javascript and then write the basic functions as python so on and so forth.

[hearty notch]

that doesnt make sense but i think youll understand why a few weeks to a few months in

every language is what it is for its own reasons

[uneven pulsar]

Well that's kind of why Javascript is hated, it's got a bunch of bullshit

[rigid locust]

Idk it could be cool but i am WAAY far from even beginning to even know if i CAN do things like that

[hearty notch]

what you said just doesnt even make sense

[rigid locust]

Lol

[uneven pulsar]

Can't let no one have dreams in 2025 💔

[rigid locust]

Im a newbie lol i imagine everyone had a similar idea before they figured it out lol

[hearty notch]

More like a public domain language translation, like take javascript and then write the basic functions as python so on and so forth. im just very pedantic and i have to let you know that there is no way to steelman what youre saying here to something that is a sensible notion

but yea

youll see itll be fun to learn

[rigid locust]

I like things like this, easy to understand but difficult enough to pose a challenge when used in practice

But anywho imma go watch vedal get drunk with camila and throw each other in PEAK.

[hearty notch]

i mean the closest analogy constructs between any set of two languages will already be documented and then everything thats imprecise to analogise shouldnt be analogised because programming is about precision and the nuances are there for a reason

sometimes the reasons are really dumb but every rule in programming has some reason you can trace

[rigid locust]

So its not so much like translating english to japanese, its more like dirt and rock, they both make up the earth but they are vastly different in how they are made themselves

[hearty notch]

something ike that yeah

past a point its impossible to translate

[rigid locust]

Kind of a weird analogy but you get the point

[hearty notch]

yea

good analogy it felt right

[uneven pulsar]

It's like trying to translate Japanese curse words to English curse words

[rigid locust]

Lol

[uneven pulsar]

Curse words are often shaped by culture which the other language would have no tie to

So it would be incredibly difficult to convey the same message in the other language

[hearty notch]

i learned about perl like a month ago just to learn the lore

its an interesting one

deveoped by a natural language guy who tried to make everything ergonomic and made redundant pathways

[rigid locust]

Yeah i figured, theres still some curse words that make sense but in the end not all of them have a translation

[hearty notch]

i think perl is kinda beautiful in its own way

[rigid locust]

I like pearls, they have a shine that i like

[uneven pulsar]

I would know, I know Romanian and English pretty well and, there are some things you just kind of can't translate

[hearty notch]

The second slogan is "Easy things should be easy and hard things should be possible".[15]

The design of Perl can be understood as a response to three broad trends in the computer industry: falling hardware costs, rising labor costs, and improvements in compiler technology. Many earlier computer languages, such as Fortran and C, aimed to make efficient use of expensive computer hardware. In contrast, Perl was designed so that computer programmers could write programs more quickly and easily.[90]

Perl has many features that ease the task of the programmer at the expense of greater CPU and memory requirements. These include automatic memory management; dynamic typing; strings, lists, and hashes; regular expressions; introspection; and an eval() function. Perl follows the theory of "no built-in limits",[28] an idea similar to the Zero One Infinity rule.

Wall was trained as a linguist, and the design of Perl is very much informed by linguistic principles. Examples include Huffman coding (common constructions should be short), good end-weighting (the important information should come first), and a large collection of language primitives. Perl favors language constructs that are concise and natural for humans to write, even where they complicate the Perl interpreter.[91] ```

sorry for wall

haha get it the guy who developed perl is wall

[rigid locust]

Yeah i dont know another language but i know enough curse words in other languages to understand that not everything makes sense

[uneven pulsar]

like one curse phrase "candela măti" translates best to "your mother's chandelier" in English

which makes no damn sense

[rigid locust]

Yeah theres a tagalog word that is equivalent to calling someone a bitch but essentially means wooden chair in english

I like other languages translated to english its funny

[uneven pulsar]

pretty much the same thing there yeah

[blissful geyser]

since i have a vps, it would be a waste not to turn it into an email domain and service as well

[olive sable]

fixed it

idk how qpwgraph works but its black magic

i still need to recconect the oculus rift microphone node everytime i change to a different world in vrchat tho

[uneven pulsar]

My ai see as Goggles n
Not black BANNER
( Roshe bypass my ai )

[jagged turtle]

wdym email domain

[hearty notch]

like having [e-mail]

[jagged turtle]

you dont need a vps for that

unless you want to host your own mail (apparently not recommended)

[hearty notch]

I think they're implying they get it for free anyway but idk

[jagged turtle]

what vps service is that then

[hearty notch]

idk I have to wait to find out now lol

[jagged turtle]

@blissful geyser please

[gritty dust]

gn Sam I'ma sleep

[uneven pulsar]

Sleeping well silent

[blissful geyser]

AWS

[jagged turtle]

oh

[hearty notch]

fra scp yolo now stages all, commits, and pushes to origin head with message "yolo: yolo"

[blissful geyser]

is what I'd like to say but im actually just using google cloud now

cause its cheaper, they offer free $300 credits

which is enough to last the service for a year

i run Debian on it

before somebody says "nuhh why don't u use arch for servers with hyprland and ricing stoopid n00b"

you don't use arch for 24/7 servers, 'kay?

[uneven pulsar]

27739 lines code 🤯 finally

[opaque sigil]

all the arch infra runs on arch servers so surely it must be perfectly fine

[jagged turtle]

1 year expiry?

[uneven pulsar]

I just use ngrok all time

Server active since 4 days

[jagged turtle]

exactly what I want mhm

[midnight sigil]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVaXLlGqQ-c

[hearty notch]

cant tell if ironic but it unironically helps me because i love yolo pushing stuff

[hearty notch]

ok here's 0.1.0

just 4 u ktrain

try using the installer then fra init to define your modules in your monorepo

[jagged turtle]

time for malware

altho rn I'm on windows

can you compile for windows or do I have to do that myself

[hearty notch]

brb

[jagged turtle]

ok

[hearty notch]

ok

i havent used it at all

by 0.2.0 maybe i will be able to guarantee anything at all but right now im taking the coding agents on their word

i do know it opens tho

[jagged turtle]

it opens 🎦

[hearty notch]

ok slightly updated version with more docs

including explaining how the storage works

it dupes some stuff on your computer due to how it works so

theres an explanation of admin task to deal with the storage somewhere in there

[jagged turtle]

[hearty notch]

lmfao

i wonder why

[jagged turtle]

I will try it with one of my private monorepos and give some feedback, rn am just trying to write something for that monorepo

[hearty notch]

yea no rush

ok ive found another dedupe method i can apply thats gonna be 0.1.5

[jagged turtle]

ok

[hearty notch]

ok this has full worktree functionality and some storage methods to sync up everything you clone so all content blobs dedupe and nothing gets copied into storage twice

this should be worth trying at least

just try the basic module functionality at some point

linux version with updated docs too

[jagged turtle]

well

I have something to do while offline at least

[uneven pulsar]

✅ Columnar storage
Only reads the columns you need → saves I/O time and memory.
(Perfect for analytics workloads, ML pipelines, etc.)

✅ Highly compressed
Parquet uses advanced compression (Snappy, Gzip, Zstd), reducing storage cost drastically.

✅ Schema-aware
Stores metadata like column types, stats, and structure → very useful for schema evolution and data validation.

✅ Fast querying
When combined with engines like DuckDB, Spark, or Polars, Parquet queries can be extremely fast — especially on large datasets.

✅ Cross-platform compatible
Readable by many frameworks and programming languages — making it great for interoperable data storage.

[hearty notch]

actually im cutting 0.1.7 in a sec to hide a lot of the more advanced useless stuff behind advanced help flags so help is less cluttered and more helpful

  How it works:
  • All fra clone operations automatically link to a shared object cache at
    ~/.fra/cas/git/objects
  • This uses Git's built-in "alternates" mechanism (.git/objects/info/alternates)
  • Multiple clones share the same physical object files instead of duplicating them

  Practical example:

     1 │# Traditional Git (3 separate clones)
     2 │git clone https://github.com/acme/monorepo project1  # 1GB
     3 │git clone https://github.com/acme/monorepo project2  # 1GB
     4 │git clone https://github.com/acme/monorepo project3  # 1GB
     5 │# Total: 3GB
     6 │
     7 │# frankengit (shared cache)
     8 │fra clone https://github.com/acme/monorepo project1  # 1GB to shared cache
     9 │fra clone https://github.com/acme/monorepo project2  # Links to shared cache
    10 │fra clone https://github.com/acme/monorepo project3  # Links to shared cache
    11 │# Total: ~1GB (99% savings)

  Real savings: This works across any Git repositories, not just monorepos. If you have 10
  different projects that share common dependencies (like node_modules or vendor files), you
  get massive deduplication.

  2. **Module-Based Filtering** (Secondary Savings)

  How it works:
  • Server-side filtering sends only objects needed for the requested module
  • Client only receives files matching the module's path patterns
  • Uses mono.toml configuration to define module boundaries

  Practical example:

     1 │# Traditional clone (entire monorepo)
     2 │git clone https://github.com/acme/monorepo  # Downloads 1GB (all modules)
     3 │
     4 │# Module-filtered clone (just frontend)
     5 │fra clone https://github.com/acme/monorepo --module frontend  # Downloads 100MB

  Real savings: 10x reduction in clone size (1GB → 100MB) because you only get the files you
  actually work on.

  3. **Content-Addressed Storage** (Tertiary Savings)

  How it works:
  • Objects stored by SHA-256 hash in objects/{sha[0..2]}/{sha[2..]}
  • Identical files across different commits/branches are automatically deduplicated
  • No duplicate storage for identical content

  Practical example:

     1 │# Traditional Git (duplicate objects)
     2 │# Branch A: file.txt (100MB) → stored as object abc123
     3 │# Branch B: file.txt (100MB) → stored as object def456 (duplicate!)
     4 │# Total: 200MB
     5 │
     6 │# frankengit (deduplicated)
     7 │# Branch A: file.txt (100MB) → stored as object abc123
     8 │# Branch B: file.txt (100MB) → reuses object abc123
     9 │# Total: 100MB (50% savings)


  4. **Cross-Repository Deduplication** (Bonus Savings)

  How it works:
  • The shared cache (~/.fra/cas/git/objects) works across different repositories
  • Common dependencies (like node_modules, vendor files, build artifacts) are shared
  • Works even if repositories are from different remotes

  Practical example:

     1 │# Multiple projects with similar dependencies
     2 │fra clone https://github.com/acme/frontend-app    # Downloads React, TypeScript, etc.
     3 │fra clone https://github.com/acme/admin-app      # Reuses React, TypeScript from cache
     4 │fra clone https://github.com/acme/mobile-app     # Reuses shared dependencies
     5 │# Common dependencies stored once, shared across all projects```

ok i misunderstood my own architecture a bit i need to figure out where to put the server

ill figure this out by halloween i swear

nvm ktrain what i sent isnt quite working

[uneven pulsar]

Server off mode today or maintenance mode model

[hearty notch]

actually no it was a dumb hallucination where one of the agents made frankengit:// the adr while the entire thing is already git compatible and then they started gaslighting me that i need bespoke servers

classic llm moment

[maiden geyser]

hello world on C with no libraries:
__asm()

sunday is so boring after all the owc quals and phase connect debuts are done

[hearty notch]

ok yea im gonna need to build a fra:// protocol but that should be fiiiine

the issue is that theres no way to stop clone from fetching the full repo unless i make a middle layer

[fast pagoda]

every time i go to order soemthing on scamazon i cannot believe it says "Like" here

[hearty notch]

lol

[fast pagoda]

i dont think it has a floor for offering financing either

itll offer tiny payment plans

i dont really pay attention to it cuz i need cash back but i feel like it is always offering stupid financing

they know zoomers must finance

[hearty notch]

the financing usually isnt that predatory ime

[fast pagoda]

i dont really think it's predator because it's not like it's high interest

it's really just free money

[hearty notch]

yeah

[fast pagoda]

i just feel like i would never know how much im spending

if i financed $30

[hearty notch]

i mean the wise old person move is to actually keep track of your budget actively

and count

[fast pagoda]

even if you're doing that you'd have to be sitting there keeping track of an ever growing and shrinking monthly total as you finance more stuff and other stuff finishes its series of payments

[hearty notch]

no you just treat the lump sum as what you spend at the point you click the button

and budget that way

i get what youre suggesting in terms of being more precise temporally over time but like

if youre balancing that its already pretty precarious

[fast pagoda]

i guess but then it's always mismatched to what's in your account at any time, i kinda do that with my bills and stuff though

i use a bucketing thing where it just takes out the amount i am going to spend on the bill so it doesnt show in my available or "free" to spend balance even tho its' there in the account

[hearty notch]

if you just treat the lump sum as spent and actively keep track of what you gain and what you lose idk y ou should get a picture of your rate of spending still

ye

thats how you should think about it

its just easier and safer

imo

[fast pagoda]

i like it a lot at least for bills

plus if i actually look at the account i have like several times the balance i feel like i have since i never really see the true balance

unless i go look specifically

[hearty notch]

ok so now what im building is a fra:// server that can be embedded but also can be hosted for teams that pulls the entire git monorepo and has it up and anybody can modularly clone off of it (this is not possible through git protocol as is)

[fast pagoda]

being so proactive that i add each thing like that i am too lazy but i do set aside an expected amount i would pay to like my amazon card and never see it because whenever i pay the card's bill it comes out of that bucket

but yeah sorry didnt mean to derail lmao

le funny amazon "Like 30 bux or something idk"

[hearty notch]

i have no such sense of derailing i will talk about anything

i just ramble abo ut my own things too

[fast pagoda]

https://tenor.com/view/predator-arnold-schwarzenegger-hand-shake-arms-gif-3468629

[fast pagoda]

make some sort of something that makes me not want to die using multiple worktrees myself because it always feels like im losing things

[hearty notch]

i think the key is to have the self embedded monorepo just self terminate and delte itself if the user wants it so that they can just instantly not be bloated but it still doesnt save the initial bandwidth of cloning the whole repo

if i understand git correctly theres no way around that bandwidth hit

[hearty notch]

describe concretely what behavior would make you feel better about the worktree actions that give you anxiety

[fast pagoda]

the initial would be needed i think because the repo itself in some form, probably in a pack that's compressed, basically contains every byte of every version of everything in the repo at any point in history and that's part of building the tree correctly, the leaves depend on the branches being there which depend on the trunk etc (commit/objects in the tree/blobs are dependent if i understand it right)

[hearty notch]

i just realized fra is a pretty elegant name for what im doing because fragit = fragment it = modularize git

[fast pagoda]

i dunno just working with multiple branches feels like i'm losing things because the things literally disappear even though theyre still in git and can be brought back

[hearty notch]

yea maybe if i use compression i can make it interesting

oh

hmmmm

[fast pagoda]

like personally, i would want some sort of ...

[hearty notch]

so maybe just some display that makes you feel ok about whats in your other branches

[fast pagoda]

yeah that

[hearty notch]

fra status showing

all branches

diffs

from yours

easy traversal and double checking

[fast pagoda]

overlay in the file tree that shows files that are there but only in diff branches yeah

[hearty notch]

maybe like fra bdiff for branch diff

does that sound coherent

can do two branch args

[fast pagoda]

or even could show liek the various currently committed branches of a file alongside with the branch theyre on etc

[hearty notch]

and also just no args

[fast pagoda]

and liek yeah that some way to select and easily diff 2 or more branches without having to dig through the timeline

[hearty notch]

sounds doable

good idea ty

i will try to implement bdiff

[fast pagoda]

noice

[jagged turtle]

bro became an advertising bot

btw @hearty notch is it compatible with git? that'd be a good thing if possible

[hearty notch]

yeah its gonna be a middleware layer

you still push straight to git and use git commands

[jagged turtle]

ah right

that's amazing

[hearty notch]

it just interacts with how you fetch and navigate things

[jagged turtle]

now I need to figure out how to install it on a docker container because I'm now realising maybe running random binaries off the internet is a bad idea...

[hearty notch]

ill do a proper release with proper verifiable build

by halloween

[jagged turtle]

please

[fast pagoda]

lazygit plugin

lazygit replacement

replace linus torvalds

[hearty notch]

yes

its my turn now

[fast pagoda]

sorry linny it's time to retire

[hearty notch]

i mean ktrain you gotta trust me here this would be the most insane roleplay just to try to get you to download viruses if that were the play

download my binaries bro theyre safe bro

[jagged turtle]

[hearty notch]

im also just gonna throw in "balias" for aliasing your branches so you can set up "fra bdiff a b"

[fast pagoda]

i work for a company that is very large and well known and people call the phone agents all the time complaining and demanding the fraud department because someone from our company called them and demanded they pay us $500+ for some service or other, and then when they do they never get the service, or because they paid that they think they paid the bill they have w/ us and are mad we dont have any record of that and need them to pay asap or their stuff will be cancelled for nonpayment

those guys will sit on the phone with them for hours roleplaying an entire fake interaction as if it were a legit transaction for a couple hundo

[hearty notch]

i just processed that th eneurobot that reacts to walls is a bot

[fast pagoda]

lmao

did you think people were just the fastest chatting reacters in the west

[hearty notch]

yes

for 3 instances

[fast pagoda]

i know i have created a banger when i instantly get

especially if it's pure bullshit

[hearty notch]

does this sound good funyun

do you wanna namespace or shape it something else

[fast pagoda]

i love aliases

of all kinds

[hearty notch]

nice hell yea

same

i like not pressing things more than i have to

my bashrc is STACKEdd

[fast pagoda]

anything that lets me set defaults for stuff i do a lot so that i dont have to redo things is great (if i remember to use it)

[jagged turtle]

i need to finish writing my custom chat platform at some point later but this is so annoying

[fast pagoda]

i have different aliases in different terminals so that they do different things which i do on purpose to separate stuff but like my fish and zsh have different aliases sometimes for the same commands heh heh

[hearty notch]

oh yea you just reminded me of the other project i was gonna do in the next two weeks

im gonna clone t3.chat except as a chat app with the branching except you do it with people isntead of llms

so you can branch in dm conversations

[fast pagoda]

i want to branch a chat and it resets people's perception of reality so they dont know the other branches exist anymore

https://tenor.com/view/will-smith-shades-mib-men-in-black-neuralyzer-gif-17328155

[hearty notch]

well if you believe in free will thats everything youre involved in via wavefunction collapse

[fast pagoda]

everyone becomes an llm to me

[hearty notch]

i however do NOT believe in free will its major COPE

[fast pagoda]

if i have free will then damn i fucking suck

so instead i'm just built this way nothin i can do sorry

[hearty notch]

lmao

im pretty happy with who i am rn yet i still dont believe in free will

[fast pagoda]

im not nearly as self deprecating in reality as i act sometimes

tfw just realized ive had gpt oss120b loaded for like 3 hours doing nothing after i had it transcribe some images earlier

which is the dumbest fucking use of a 120b model

but it's pretty good at it so

[hearty notch]

what does it mean to have a model loaded idling

[fast pagoda]

if you feed it ocr

[hearty notch]

i dont local host

[fast pagoda]

it just takes up a shitload of memory

[hearty notch]

oh lol

ye

[fast pagoda]

it doesnt really do anything unless it's processing input

other than make my gpu be a couple hundred mb from going out of memory

[hearty notch]

wait

bdiff already exists in git its ur skill issue

[fast pagoda]

yeah but im talking like a passive version of that

[hearty notch]

when would it trigger

thats even eaiser because i can just wrap the git version

[fast pagoda]

like if i were to simple open the filesystem tree w/ git flag or something

[hearty notch]

i can still do the alias and wrap it

[fast pagoda]

like let's say i just eza --git

[hearty notch]

what if i just make a construct to arbitrarily hook git stuff to other git stuff

i think that already exists but i can standardize it in my thing anyway

because it sounds like your prefs are kinda idiosyncratic

so i wanna giv eyou the abiilty to do everything you want but not out the box

but you just config once and then its there

does that sound like it makes sense

[fast pagoda]

idk the entire thing for me is mainly because if i glance at the repo directory i want to be able to somehow tell what is where not necessarily in the current branch but every branch
and at that, somehow without insanely cluttering everything kek

not necessarily needing a toggle or any trigger really

[hearty notch]

yeah but like i need a consistent description of when you want it to show up

or you need to be able to describe it programmatically

[fast pagoda]

eye tracking ewhen i look at the top left of my editor at the file explorer it instantly spawns the committed but not checked out files that i am not currently able to see in the actual filesystem since a branch without them is checked out

mostly joking

[hearty notch]

lmao

[fast pagoda]

but this is why ive never bothered to attempt this functionality and simple maintain several folders with different repo versions like an idiot

[hearty notch]

you have given me the idea for just arbitrary git macro construction though

it sounds useful

i think it alreayd exists in terms of git hooks

i should learn what already exists first

[fast pagoda]

there's so much shit in git actually

[hearty notch]

yea

[fast pagoda]

reading the manpage is something

manpages

[hearty notch]

its too much thats why i want a wrapper that just has the most good feeling stuff and nothing else

thats my mission with everything

find the good feeling stuff and remove everything else

[fast pagoda]

generally i run lazygit if i forgor how to do something specific since it has all the stuff you can do in a given scope/context easily visible through ?

id have to open a project and fart around with different branches to remember what myy pain is specifically usually

[hearty notch]

yea the more i look at git features the more im reinventing stuff EXCEPT i just have to get this monorepo modulariziation thing right i think

also maaaaybe lightweight team sync along with it

[fast pagoda]

it helps that i rarely work on collaborative repos for the most part atm so i can just fuckin git reset --hard without a care

[hearty notch]

yea same

[fast pagoda]

you should do something with submodules

ive been using those lately

and idk if im even using them right

[hearty notch]

describe your usage

and hwy you think theyre good

[fast pagoda]

i dunno i have some functionality that relies on another thing that is also in a repo and is worth having in the repo//directory as the other thing but i want it to be "untracked" adjacent by the main repo but still versioned etc so it cant just be gitignored or something like a local config file

[hearty notch]

so you want a half ignore

lol

[fast pagoda]

ignore but not really lule

yeah

because i want it to update as i update whatever thing it is

[hearty notch]

i mean that sounds like a funny feature for something called frankengit

[fast pagoda]

idk i have stupid usecases because it's just me winging it with stuff

[hearty notch]

halfignore

its so inelegant that its funny

fra halfignore

[fast pagoda]

wtf are you supposed to use submodules for usually? it just seemed like something to wrap another repo to add it to your repo without affecting the worktree of that other thing and not requiring a full copy of that repo to be sitting there in your other project

[hearty notch]

i dont really understand your situation still

i have no clue

[fast pagoda]

this site explains better than i can

Submodules
It often happens that while working on one project, you need to use another project from within it. Perhaps it’s a library that a third party developed or that you’re developing separately and using in multiple parent projects. A common issue arises in these scenarios: you want to be able to treat the two projects as separate yet still be able to use one from within the other.

https://git-scm.com/book/en/v2/Git-Tools-Submodules

i dont really see how this is much different than just cloning the other thing periodically into your main repo

but ive been using it all the same

i guess it just helps keep the other project's clone versioned properly//up to date without having to guess or manually check, because the version of the submodule is known to the main repo?

[hearty notch]

yea this seems relevant to what im doing too

[fast pagoda]

the reason i even started using them was from cloning then building mediawiki to host the arch wiki here on my network the hardest dumbest possible way

and mediawiki uses a bunch of submodules

and i was like huh neat

at least, arch wiki's fork of mediawiki uses a bunch, i havent mess w/ the main mediawiki repo

[hearty notch]

im changing my strategy ive realized i need to fully research git before deciding whats worth wrapping

im 2 noob

[fast pagoda]

wtf is this text rendering

does this look fubar or am i crazy

[hearty notch]

the rs are funny

[fast pagoda]

it's like

wavy

oops

wrong reply

i was gonna say me irl looking at the git manpages

but yeah git is crazy

[uneven pulsar]

Problem =>
Mixed imports
Env, folder, cache
Too heavy beyond 3 layers
Duplicate & conflicts

[uneven pulsar]

Bitmap is created sucessful

[clear sedge]

https://youtu.be/8twxK9-GTx8
they're slowly making python more bearable, bit by bit

hmm yes, ignoring compiler and cpu runtime optimisations

[jagged turtle]

uhhh

isn't cython the official python dist?

unless cython and cpython are different things

oh they are diff, pls disregard

[maiden geyser]

is there much difference between this and nuitka (performance wise or whatever)

[jagged turtle]

reason why submodules are useful is so that you don't have to tell the person to download exactly this version otherwise the program will cause the heat death of the universe

you can just have it chilling in your repo

[fast pagoda]

oh see ithought maybe but then i figured it was already handled by packagers w/ various other dependency controlling things like requirements.txt etc etc

[jagged turtle]

yeah but I think this was made for the lower-level langs or before package managers have gotten really good ig

also helps if, say, a rust crate that you depend on cannot be installed via cargo because it depends on unpublished crates

then you can just submodule it into your repo and use it that way

ig

[clear sedge]

✅

cpython is the reference implementation for python

[jagged turtle]

yes

I did one thing most people outside tech don't do apparently

I looked it up on google

[clear sedge]

not sure, i don't use python

i could write tests to actually see but i don't particularly care

i don't have to deal with python code all that often, thankfully

[rigid snow]

[hearty notch]

NEURO

[maiden geyser]

we're not making it out of copper

[short ingot]

I need to save this

[rigid snow]

people just now discovering cython

crazy

[short ingot]

yea

sadly

[silent cloak]

Python "programmers"

[fast pagoda]

the inability to find information when it's everywhere and instantly available is crazy
surprises me especially when it's someone young
it's funny to see them trying to use google like it's chatgpt and getting mad they can't find anything

[silent cloak]

[fast pagoda]

python has been a disaster for the human race and whatnot

[jagged turtle]

I know

[silent cloak]

https://tenor.com/view/truth-nuke-truth-true-soyjak-wojak-gif-14828627546768133163

[jagged turtle]

I half-disagree

[clear sedge]

"hey google can you like tell me what cython is please"

[fast pagoda]

i was half srs

[fast pagoda]

i think this is short enough to work and obviously ai mode will slop out the wrong answer ig

[silent cloak]

The world would only improve without it (people would have to start with a real language)

[clear sedge]

using python in production for larger projects is a sin in the same way that using javascript would be

[jagged turtle]

it's almost like apparently people just shut their brains off whenever they hear anything tech related

it's why r/talesfromtechsupport is no longer ragebait for me

[silent cloak]

Js is required for modern front-end though

[clear sedge]

you can keep it to a minimum

[jagged turtle]

that I can agree with

[silent cloak]

Naturally but it still serves a proper purpose

[jagged turtle]

if you're using python for anything actually serious and they aren't one-off scripts you're doing something wrong

[clear sedge]

python's purpose is purely to be a bootstrapper

using python for anything else is insane

[jagged turtle]

the only way I can see python being used seriously is data analysis but like

ehhhh

[silent cloak]

It makes good bloat

[fast pagoda]

my grandma did that and i mention her specifically because i know otherwise she was a very intelligent person and easily COULD have understood things, had she tried. she used pretty complex and obtuse equipment at work all the time without issues including computers, but they were somehow different than home computers, which had her asking where's the facebook when i put an icon on her desktop that said "THE FACEBOOK"

it's like she just gave up on anything in that category and refused to ever consider it again

[jagged turtle]

bro

I would drop the most fucking braindead tech support requests I get at day

[clear sedge]

ah yes, high level language that doesn't give you the tools to read data as raw bytes being used for data analysis

no pointers

[jagged turtle]

science, not tech

[fast pagoda]

data analysis = chart hehez

[jagged turtle]

should have probably specified

[fast pagoda]

i will render the slowest, most bloated python chart in the world

[jagged turtle]

pov matplotlib

[clear sedge]

import every pip library

all of them

https://tenor.com/view/500-cigarettes-five-hundred-cigarettes-gif-6779891482871762392

[jagged turtle]

(not hating on it, just that it is so fucking slow when I want to generate a chart that it's almost worth learning excel instead)

[silent cloak]

https://tenor.com/view/do-not-run-python-python-computer-python-coding-coding-funny-coding-meme-gif-10365831290651691441

[fast pagoda]

i would do this in every repo and every venv but i am out of hard drive space after installing every fetch on the aur

[silent cloak]

I hate having to clean old python packages

[fast pagoda]

clone the entire pypi repository

[clear sedge]

low-key i wanna make an alternative to matplotlib in c or c++

[silent cloak]

They should kill off pip and make something like nuget crates or even npm

[clear sedge]

probably c++ since i can make it easier to write

[silent cloak]

I dont need my C drive to be bloated with slop

[fast pagoda]

gnuplot-iostream

hehe

[silent cloak]

It probably exists honestly

[fast pagoda]

it does

[jagged turtle]

???

npm literally bloats your drive more because you install duplicate packages for each project

[clear sedge]

[silent cloak]

The amount of tensorflow and pytorch files ive had to clear over the year

[clear sedge]

i'm pretty sure 80% of internet traffic is npm

[silent cloak]

Let's me keep them all on a development drive

[clear sedge]

source: my ass

[jagged turtle]

you can do the same for pip?

[fast pagoda]

yeah from botnets installed via npm

[silent cloak]

Or literally anywhere that isn't my main storage

[jagged turtle]

im pretty sure?

[silent cloak]

Pip is as bad as maven if not worse

[clear sedge]

can't you just symlink it anyway

[silent cloak]

I mean I can jump hoops for every project if I really want to

But it's such a vintage style of package management

[clear sedge]

dude

if you want vintage

[silent cloak]

I know jet brains is supporting a replacement for pip

[clear sedge]

look at gnu make

[silent cloak]

I forgot the name of it

[fast pagoda]

uv

uv only

even tho it's pip

[jagged turtle]

this is why I like pnpm lol

[jagged turtle]

weird wrapper around pip (idek if it counts as pip wrapper)

[silent cloak]

Is it a wrapper?

[fast pagoda]

i never bothered to see if it really did anything to pip itself other than running the same things faster

[silent cloak]

Bruh

[clear sedge]

js devs on their way to use a whole framework to convert one string to a boolean

[fast pagoda]

yeah i mean you can drop in uv pip for pip

[silent cloak]

U need a wrapper to run shit faster than the thing it's wrapping?

[fast pagoda]

if you have astral uv installed

it also handles venvs

[silent cloak]

Python man...

[fast pagoda]

it kinda grandfathers pip's stuff in

[silent cloak]

Where abstraction is quicker somehow

[jagged turtle]

there's not really a point considering uv add just directly adds to your pyproject.toml

[fast pagoda]

right requirement.txt isn't needed w/ it

[jagged turtle]

idt it's a wrapper tbh

[fast pagoda]

it's grandfathered in

[short ingot]

how would you publish a python package btw?

[jagged turtle]

uv pip is more like an interface for people who don't want to change their keystroke flows

[clear sedge]

low-key i dislike cmake and pip having files ending in .txt that serve to have their own perspective languages

[silent cloak]

Pypi

[jagged turtle]

idt uv pip uses pip at all (might be wrong tho)

[fast pagoda]

you can use it tho like uv pip freeze > requirements.txt works

[clear sedge]

legalise CMakeLists.cmake

[short ingot]

kay!

tysm!

[silent cloak]

I use cmake honestly

[clear sedge]

as do i

[jagged turtle]

I need better monorepo tools lol

[silent cloak]

Though I pair it with conan

[clear sedge]

i use gnu make for certain projects though

[fast pagoda]

https://docs.astral.sh/uv/pip/compatibility/

written in rust 🦀

[silent cloak]

The best python packages arent written in python

Hmmm

[clear sedge]

even rust is a better language than python

[fast pagoda]

python is just a fancy rust wrapper

[silent cloak]

Kek

[short ingot]

I know people are hating on JS, but now Python?!

[jagged turtle]

rust is a better lang than most things apparently

[silent cloak]

There was a modified C++ that stopped getting maintained but it was my favorite language

[clear sedge]

everything is just a fancy assembly wrapper

assembly is just a fancy machine code wrapper

[silent cloak]

It was literally C++ but with borrow checking capabilities and some other bonuses

[clear sedge]

machine code is just a fancy electricity wrapper

[jagged turtle]

even the new rolldown bundler for js is written in rust

[fast pagoda]

yeah at the end of the day it's all a fancy physics wrapper

molecular forces wrapper

:quantumania

[silent cloak]

I need a qbit compiler now

[fast pagoda]

i usually will use bun over npm until too many things get very mad assuming i'll have npm and it inconveniences me slightly

because i liek typing bun

[jagged turtle]

a lot of shit just assumes everyone uses npm or yarn

[silent cloak]

Because most do

[fast pagoda]

yep it doesnt usually take very long to have to be manually editing that somewhere

and then what happens is i have both bun and npm and it's all a shitshow, all order is out the window

[jagged turtle]

I just want shit to work better with pnpm man

[silent cloak]

me when the FART package manager isnt supported

[fast pagoda]

lmfao

[silent cloak]

Fun Activity Repo Talker

[fast pagoda]

i laughed irl