programming

[rigid snow]

ye see

[amber fractal]

Dual core (No multithreading) 2.6GHz from spec sheet

[rigid snow]

as long as that isn’t a lie

[hexed grove]

fastfetch hopefully isnt lying

[amber fractal]

That's N4000

[olive sable]

ye

and it ran like ass

at least minecraft bedrock still ran decently

on low settings, but it ran

[amber fractal]

The only low power I have is N100, that mini PC is used as network USB port

[hexed grove]

imagine using windows

couldnt be me

[olive sable]

couldnt be me

[rigid snow]

you can run it on android too

[olive sable]

but i was 12 at the time so i wasnt a linux user yet

[rigid snow]

don’t have to use windows

[hexed grove]

i use linux

[olive sable]

you sneaky edit

[hexed grove]

you didnt see anything

[warped narwhal]

my old laptop (that my parents now use) has an n2840, 2 core no smt at 2.5ghz

[hexed grove]

GET THEM A BETTER LAPTOP

[warped narwhal]

I upgraded them to an ssd, 8gb of ram and a linux install, but holy it is slow.

[olive sable]

all these celerons seem to have pretty similair specs from the sound of it lmao

[hexed grove]

im a chromebook

sooo

ye

[warped narwhal]

my condolences

[hexed grove]

why the fuck do i keep forgetting to declare my functions

[olive sable]

those celeron laptops are the biggest scam in recent laptop history btw. my N4000 laptop was 400 bucks, thats a full 1/3rd of the price i paid for my 3090 pc.

[rigid snow]

12 and bedrock on windows being a thing simultaneously is a crazy concept to me
i say that but now i think about it and it came out in 2015 approximately at the same time as w10 came out and i was 11. they gave everyone who owned java a free key to “minecraft windows 10 edition beta”. it was so ass it’s crazy

[hexed grove]

i was 5 when it came out

[rigid snow]

2015 bedrock on windows compared to java

[olive sable]

we had this discussione before, lets skip over it

for a 12 y/o, minecraft bedrock was close enough

[rigid snow]

this ain’t a point of discussion. 2015 bedrock was absolute ass, especially on the same platform as java, and to have access to bedrock you had to have java already

[olive sable]

did you? i bought bedrock standalone in the ms store

[rigid snow]

windows 10 edition beta

yes

you had to have java to get in

[olive sable]

also, it was more like 2018 or so. i was 11-12 at the time and im from 07

[hexed grove]

fuck i forgor to free my memory

[rigid snow]

it was way way better in 2018

[olive sable]

i see

well, i bought it in 2018 without java

and then in 2022 or so i got java for free cuz i owned bedrock

[rigid snow]

they were separate back then, i don’t think there was even a bundle

[olive sable]

i dont think there was

there were minecoin bundles tho

[obsidian mantle]

i dont get it, cant i just "sudo apt install some styles"

i want superdark only dark style which i will just override

and not that windows/fusion which has dark light blue plasma idk

[olive sable]

i bought the starter kit which came with a bunch of minecoins, and it was almost the same price as the base game.
spent that money on a noxcrew map or 2 iirc

noxcrew the goats

[tender river]

i bought minecraft in like 2014 maybe?

[rigid snow]

ye same

[olive sable]

i like how minecraft is an almost universal experience

[tender river]

most sold game or something

[obsidian mantle]

ok i installed styles but when i try to run cute chess with it, it says i only have fusion and windows.
qt5ct sees new styles

[tender river]

[obsidian mantle]

its like, cute chess is run under some other platform

which has no styles

[rigid snow]

i have suspiciously too many friends who never played gta5 or any gta games for some of them

[tender river]

i played gta 5 shortly after release but my laptop was only able to run it at 15fps so i deleted it

[olive sable]

[tender river]

210m sales doesnt sound unreasonable

[amber fractal]

+1 to the list

[rigid snow]

please do

good game

[obsidian mantle]

can anything of this conflict

why do they change naming in every version

[opaque sigil]

the top ones are the libraries used by the bottom ones

[hexed grove]

i got the bestest gpu

i get 4365 fps on rotating cube

rotation is tied to frame so its super fast 😭

[olive sable]

checks out, for not intensive workloads having the gpu right next to the cpu helps

[olive sable]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGhfUcPjXuE

you probably already know this but ths is a great video about deltatime

[amber fractal]

It'd be funny to just quack summon for more FPS

[hexed grove]

im not watching this video

ignorance is bliss

[olive sable]

[tender river]

another common issue is summing up movement vectors instead of rotating it when using keyboard for movement

up there with delta time issues, though not as prevalent

[olive sable]

i just normalize it after gettign the input, which should be close enough

[hexed grove]

i should probably watch that so i dont accidentally do that shit because i geninuly dont know how to unbind stuff happening from fps

[tender river]

should be good for 8-dir movement

[olive sable]

its actually not that hard. just accept that you will have 1 frame of delay tho

[hexed grove]

okay ima just lock fps to 10 and make it work

[opaque sigil]

[hexed grove]

i do not want delay

[obsidian mantle]

this is bullshit

1. all qt's i have - have more than 2 packages (i installed additional packages for 5 and 6, all packages are visible in qtXct)
2. when i run the app, it says only "windows and fusion" are available

its like, it has some other qt that i dont see

so qt5 and qt6 use different namings, can this "hidden" qt be called like some bullshit (for example q_t_4_tomfoolery you cant search me by "qt")

[olive sable]

locking the fps to 10 is probably the worst solution to this

[obsidian mantle]

im not sure about how crazy linux developers are, but i suppose q_t is not a thing

[hexed grove]

whats the second worst

leaving it as is?

[olive sable]

if your laptop stutters then the game wont even notice cuz its taking the assumption of always doing 10fps perfectly, meaning your 1% lows will be bad

[hexed grove]

lmao

[olive sable]

i think so ye

[hexed grove]

so .5fps fixes that

2 seconds per frame

[olive sable]

it just makes it less noticeable

just use deltatime bro

[tender river]

https://gameprogrammingpatterns.com/ is also a good reference btw (not video form but personally i almost never click on yt videos, though i also know that some people click on videos but never on articles )

[olive sable]

guilty ye

i watch a lot of videos

[hexed grove]

im gonna need you to explain in a way that lets my brain focus instead of attempting to optimize my 4000fps cube renderer

because it too slow

[olive sable]

so

every frame, you ask what time it is

then you look at how much time passed betweent he current and the last frame

thats deltatime

you multiply movement by deltatime

[hexed grove]

im already doing that to calc fps

okay i guess its easy

[amber fractal]

My mind went to removing the deltatime calculations from the FPS counter in the triangle repo for some reason.

[olive sable]

thats the gist of it. you can go into a lot more nuance with this for shit like accelaration

but acceleration mean integration and i have decided i will perish

those nuances is the reason that video is 20 min long

[clear sedge]

i recommend setting up a "tick"-like system for certain things, a lot of non-visual things you'll probably want to spare the troubles of tying to floating point accuracy

[hexed grove]

So uh Deltatime is in seconds?

[olive sable]

most of the time in miliseconds i think

it really doesnt matter tho

as long as you have enough precision in the number

this is how my player moves for example

[obsidian mantle]

its not worth it, i guess i'll stick to light theme
2 hours changing colour of app background in 2025 thats crazy

[opaque sigil]

[obsidian mantle]

i have only 2 qt's, both are dark, when run app with qt, says it has no dark and runs in light

im telling you its some q____special_edition_____T_1231

unusable shit

whatever time to go to bed

[opaque sigil]

Did you check the qt page on the arch wiki

[obsidian mantle]

you mean qt library on archwiki

maybe tomorrow

[olive sable]

im not much of a reader but this does seem like a good recourse ye

[obsidian mantle]

(library like 5000 pages)

[olive sable]

officially sam approved, eventho my credibility is near zero

[clear sedge]

tying movement to frame updates

[olive sable]

yes

[clear sedge]

for any multiplayer or speedrunnable game, i do not approve

[olive sable]

that is how you do this

[hexed grove]

okay i got it working but

10000 fps on celeron :o

[olive sable]

its tied to the deltatime of the updateloop

not the actual framerate

[clear sedge]

a lag spike could still cause unpredictable behavior or huge jumps in movement

[olive sable]

no

thats the whole point of using deltatime

thats literally the whole reason we're talking about this

if the time between frames is smaller, deltatime will be smaller, so the movemenet multiplied by deltatime will be smaller

if the time between frames is bigger, deltatime will be bigger, so the movemenet multiplied by deltatime will be bigger

[clear sedge]

so you get jumps in movement when you have a lag spike

[olive sable]

no

you dont

deltatime accounts for the lagespikes

[clear sedge]

am i too sleep deprived or am i valid in thinking you shouldn't tie player movement to your draw loop for any speedrunnable or multiplayer game

[olive sable]

99.9999% of games do this

idk what to tell you

[clear sedge]

does that make it best practice?

[olive sable]

yes

the only way to improve this is the get a time machine inside your computer to see how long the frame took to render from the future,a nd use that

but we dont have a time machine

[hexed grove]

my laptop is now making a highpitched running sound for some reason when i open my app exclusively

uhmmm

[clear sedge]

i'm a full believer in ticks

[olive sable]

that is ticks

[clear sedge]

physics should be updated separately from graphics

[olive sable]

what i showed you is using ticks

[olive sable]

THEY ARE

[olive sable]

.

[olive sable]

.

[clear sedge]

why would you use delta time in a tick update function?

[olive sable]

cause its deltatime of the updateloop

[amber fractal]

Variable tick rate for graphics
-# almost typoed whoops

[hexed grove]

because cpu speed is not always constant?

[amber fractal]

constant for physics

[olive sable]

you cant rely on everything being constant speed

even the physics updateloop will have lagspikes

its a reality of life

[amber fractal]

OBS exists as well

[olive sable]

true

[clear sedge]

1. store a start time in nanoseconds
2. use that start time with the current time to calculate how many ticks should be run
3. run the required amount of ticks to "catch up" and keep the remainder in your timer

then you just don't need to worry about delta time for a whole lot of things

[olive sable]

use that start time with the current time to calculate how many ticks should be run
you're just doing deltatime with extra steps

[clear sedge]

it's doing incremental updates that account for the in-betweens

it's different

[olive sable]

it isnt

[clear sedge]

https://tenor.com/view/huh-cat-gif-26460616

you do you buddy

[olive sable]

the only difference here is that instead of putting your updateloop at the tickspeed, you're makign it call another function at the tickspeed

simply just moving where you use deltatime

[opaque sigil]

If you catch up by running multiple ticks isn't the end result the same, the ticks need to run faster than usual to catch up

[clear sedge]

[obsidian mantle]

But you have inbetweens

[clear sedge]

you're not subject to floating point errors and you could run more complex calculations within a tick

for a straightforward move character from A to B in a singleplayer non-speedrun context that might not matter, but it matters when you want your game to be consistent

[olive sable]

you really shouldn't be needing to catch up btw, the tickspeed is 99% of the time already less than the monitor fps, and needing to catch up in a single frame just means you remove all the inbetweens

[obsidian mantle]

So is tick=delta or no

[olive sable]

tickspeed is the ideal amount of ticks per second

deltatime is the amount of time between irl frames

[obsidian mantle]

Can there be ticks inbetween delta checks

It must be some other program then

[olive sable]

ussualy you use 1 of the 2 systems, not both

[obsidian mantle]

I dont get the idea of what you can do except delta actually

Your function is called at deltas

It doesnt see anything inbetween

Setting up external function to run lesser deltas will still have its own deltas

But if those deltas are smaller, its actually better just because they are smaller

Especially if they are unaffected by internet lags for example

[clear sedge]

whether or not to introduce a separate floating point delta to a tick step from the render step is a different question to which i'll answer no

[olive sable]

gimme a sec ill make a diagram

[clear sedge]

floating point errors frame-dependent math

[obsidian mantle]

So you just suggest to run these calculations in another program which is unaffected by graphic/internet spikes

[clear sedge]

skipping in-betweens is how you get exploiters teleporting everywhere by changing a number in cheat engine

[olive sable]

you can do the same thing with ticks bro

[clear sedge]

physics ticks separate from graphics ticks is my argument

[obsidian mantle]

Yeah but

Then you have it running locally

Cheatable

[amber fractal]

Man we are just going in circles here

[clear sedge]

if you have a multiplayer game, the server would be doing the physics ticks in my idealised version, and you would simply poll it and do your render ticks

[obsidian mantle]

Impossible for live action games

[clear sedge]

why not have the singleplayer mode act the same way so you can reuse the same physics handling code?

[obsidian mantle]

You have 30-50 ping to the server you just cant rely on server entirely

It should run locally but be synced by polling yes

Basically both server and your pc play the game

[amber fractal]

Good luck winning this argument

[obsidian mantle]

I guess? Idk

[clear sedge]

i'm a huge advocate for determinisim, updating things each frame feels like it spits in the face of determinism

[obsidian mantle]

Cheating problem can only be fixed by local anti cheats overseeing your local calculations

[obsidian mantle]

But data exchange with server is much slower than your framerate

[olive sable]

here you go

you can see here that they work almost exactly the same way

except that one moves everything by fixed intervals evry x amount iof time, and the other moves everything by the time elapsed

both are valid

[clear sedge]

you're introducing floating point errors and framerate-dependent behavior, if you acknowledge that fact and are fine with it, do as you wish

deltatime on physics updates is a bandaid fix that crumbles down the line

[olive sable]

the floating point errors are quite literaly 0.000000001% of diffrence

and the fact you're checking if its time for a tick rn has jsut as much error

[tender river]

the difference is its eventually gonna result in the same calculations with ticks

[olive sable]

like i said, i'm using deltatime of the updateloop, not the renderloop. it is in fact NOT framerate dependent

[tender river]

but not with code that uses dt

[obsidian mantle]

It will not be the same you get floating point errors on very high framerate indeed

Unless

Need to be checked

How big is error

[clear sedge]

using delta time for ticks instead of correcting for missed ticks is going to be different

[obsidian mantle]

If i have 100 frames per tick

[tender river]

its like using the euler method

you need small steps for accuracy

using large steps gets you "a" solution but it will be a different solution

[clear sedge]

based chayleaf take wording it better than i did

[obsidian mantle]

??????

[tender river]

in gamedev, using super small steps is overkill but determinism is still important

[clear sedge]

10-30 tps is probably fine for most games

[obsidian mantle]

What is more frequent, framerate or tick?

Im confused

[clear sedge]

framerate is generally more frequent

[olive sable]

if you calculate all your phyiscs from a starting position, ticks has a chance of being more acurate, if you calculate everything based on the previous position, then it really doesnt matter i think

that is my understanding of it

[obsidian mantle]

You get different results thats for sure

[olive sable]

for fps games where everything happens on split seconds intervals, you really dont want to be dependant on ticks that got calculated a whole 50ms ago like how minecraft has 20tps

[clear sedge]

cs2 generally has 64tps

configurable, of course

[olive sable]

64tps is still bad, imo use vsync

[obsidian mantle]

Depends on pc then

[olive sable]

vsync for the physics updateloop, not the graphics

[clear sedge]

vsync for the physics

[obsidian mantle]

Better pc better tps

Bullshit

[clear sedge]

better pc better physics too i guess

[olive sable]

if you're doing multiplayer the tps will be decided by the server anywyas

this is a non-issue

[clear sedge]

determinism is an issue you need to tackle when making a game

if you don't care for it, say as much

[obsidian mantle]

I would prefer less determinism in singleplayer

It can be fun

[amber fractal]

I'm betting that the proposed solution is essentially:
Ticks for physics, and just sample between for it for frames.

[clear sedge]

it's fine for small games or non-speedrunnable games, to update per frame, but you will lose determinism and will lose points in the speedrun community

[obsidian mantle]

Yes its bad for speedrunning

[clear sedge]

speedrunning communities are often what keeps games alive

super mario 64 is still alive because a fuckton of people speedrun it

[amber fractal]

@olive sable I'd assume you'd already do this if you added a heavier collision system for less FPS wasted, so again non issue

[tender river]

determinism doesnt imply lack of rng

[olive sable]

no im using deltatime for physics in a seperate updateloop

not the renderloop

[obsidian mantle]

But you can make it more random and less determined. And then your game lives not by speedrunners but by mods

[clear sedge]

see: minecraft

[tender river]

determinism just means that the conditions the game runs in (like players' hardware or os or background processes) dont affect what outcome the players get

[obsidian mantle]

It makes it less rng. Literally the definition of determinism - no rng (ideally)

[clear sedge]

i hate to break this to you but most rng is deterministic

[amber fractal]

If people are going to fight about it, they can commit to the repo themselves tbh

[obsidian mantle]

You dont get it

Im not talking about math.random

Im talking about floating point errors that lead to some crazy funny shit

[clear sedge]

are you talking about cloudflare's lavalamp rng factory

[tender river]

sm64 floating point errors are also deterministic

[amber fractal]

I'd consider it if I wanted to implement physics papers on top of the engine, just to have LOD so less far objects update less.

it can be done with deltatime, but honestly a waste

[olive sable]

i mean, does this even count as either?

while (running)
{
    pollEvents();
    inputs();

    //camData.camPos = position;
    //glBindBuffer(GL_UNIFORM_BUFFER, uboCampos);
    //glBufferSubData(GL_UNIFORM_BUFFER, 0, sizeof(camData), &camData);

    for (int i = 0; i < models.size(); i++)
    {
        models[i].transmat = glm::rotate(glm::mat4(1.0f), 0.001f * time * glm::radians(90.0f), glm::vec3(0.0f, 1.0f, 0.0f));
        models[i].transmat[3][2] -= 5;
        models[i].transmat[3][0] += ((i % 5) - 2.0) * 1.3;
        models[i].transmat[3][1] += int(i/5) * 1.3;
    }

    calculateFramerate();
    SDL_Delay(updateloopFrameDelay);
}

updateloopFrameDelay is a constant so it works like a tickspeed, but im still using deltatime for my physics too

[obsidian mantle]

If you cant determine it - its irrelevant. Determinism is useless if you can't determine it

[tender river]

anyway gotta go

[swift shoal]

how to patch kde2 under freebsd

[obsidian mantle]

Framerate updates create more errors. Less determinism. More random. More fun.

[clear sedge]

you'd love schedule 1

[clear sedge]

this feels like the worst of both worlds

[clear sedge]

motherfucker

welp i got 'd so i automatically lose

gg

good argument

[obsidian mantle]

[olive sable]

it really isnt that bad. the deltatime actually does make a difference because even with SDL_Delay(), the updateloop is not consistent

[glad path]

do I have to return an argument from the function passed into map() in python

or can I just call use it arbitrarily like a for loop

[clear sedge]

it'll return None by default it seems

well, "return"

rather it gets treated like it returns None

[glad path]

aren't map calls more efficient than for loops

or am i just being delusional

[opaque sigil]

They're lazy

[olive sable]

i have received an art scammer in my dm's

time to mess with them

[clear sedge]

does python not have a for_each?

[opaque sigil]

No

[glad path]

dont think so

[opaque sigil]

You just loop over it

[clear sedge]

create a false identity and give them false info >:)

[rigid snow]

helo. u meik geym? i can has art asets me veri talent no ai. veri cheep

[clear sedge]

"just send an invoice to [e-mail]"

[olive sable]

nah this time it will be a real artist, trust 🙏

member since sept 12

[rigid snow]

bro is NOT real

[olive sable]

if i wanted to get art i could probably pay someone here 50 bucks to get it done properly

or my college

[rigid snow]

exactly 1 month

[olive sable]

Jancy^^ jancy._.star She/her real person trust

[amber fractal]

I love having notebook

[olive sable]

[amber fractal]

This would be benefits of both systems

Not that I'm invested in it, I just want it to end

[obsidian mantle]

Yes

Stable physics, unlimited framerate

[clear sedge]

dt=0

[olive sable]

if deltatime is ever 0 you deserve to crash

[clear sedge]

i actually agree

[olive sable]

you're breakign the laws of physics cuz askign for the time takes time

[obsidian mantle]

How much fps you need to get 0 delta in scope of 32 float

[clear sedge]

idfk

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[olive sable]

wdym? like it has rounding error and goes to full 0?

literal trillions

[obsidian mantle]

Ye

So never

[olive sable]

ye

[obsidian mantle]

Surely the clock never lies

[clear sedge]

what about when we become 4d beings with enhanced senses and enhanced 4d computers that can run apps at like a quadrillion fps

[obsidian mantle]

Hold up. The clock!

[olive sable]

in a loop that had nothing happen inside of it besides updating fps we had something around 200 billion fps updates per second, and that worked fine

[obsidian mantle]

Its limited by processor speed?

How frequent can you update the clock

[olive sable]

then they would simply use a double

[olive sable]

ye

[obsidian mantle]

Oh but then you have to update frames faster than your processor updates clock

Impossible

Unless the clock lies

[clear sedge]

what about when we become 5d beings with even more enhanced senses and even more enhanced 5d computers that can run apps at an fps we cannot even fathom

[olive sable]

bruh

[obsidian mantle]

And they cant play your game from 10000 years ago smh

[clear sedge]

this is serious scientific discussion

[amber fractal]

Big float

[obsidian mantle]

256 bit float

[olive sable]

this si the kind of argument "what if an asteroid fell down and burned up in the atmospere causing a electron to fly into my computer causing a bitflip and makign my computer explode"

[simple pollen]

I have no idea how you would even measure fps with multiple time dimensions

[olive sable]

you dont

[obsidian mantle]

True. What if you get a bitflip

[clear sedge]

fpsps

[amber fractal]

complex time vector

[olive sable]

fs^-2

[obsidian mantle]

Separate and duplicate each variable to consider possible bitflips

Raid type memory

[simple pollen]

they exist, mostly only for intermediate steps for astronomical physics

[olive sable]

bro this is not even gamedev anymore, this is pure nonesense

[clear sedge]

trude

run two instances of the app and let the user pick the one they want

[obsidian mantle]

Run 3 pick by voting

[amber fractal]

In conclusion to the game dev, my solution is perfect tp end the debate, minus a bit of FPS loss in exchange for predictable physics

[olive sable]

in my honest opinion

ill continue doing it like this

i don't care

[amber fractal]

I stand by my original point of this

[obsidian mantle]

I know a 2007 game that has scripts calculated with int delta in ms

[clear sedge]

[obsidian mantle]

When you go above 1k fps it gets 0 delta

[olive sable]

https://tenor.com/view/todd-howard-it-just-works-bethesda-this-all-just-works-gif-20598651

[amber fractal]

For no particular reason @olive sable what is the repo link if a version exists on GH

[olive sable]

the stuff with ticks based physics i can somehat agree on, but it is the literal fucking worst if you have to do more than 1 tick update at the same time

[clear sedge]

i'm gonna revamp your entire physics handling out of spite

[amber fractal]

-# Free commits :xdx:

[olive sable]

if you do that you should not be making games.
you do either 0 or 1 tick update per check, if for some reason you have to do 2 then your loop should loop faster or get out of the industry

[rigid snow]

frame acceleration

[olive sable]

https://github.com/samvanmaele/vulkan/tree/useful_stuff

[amber fractal]

So that is what frame generation is trying to be mhm

[olive sable]

i do agree somewhat on his phsyics point so ill change that part of the engine actually

somewhat

[rigid snow]

what is the terminal framerate

[tender river]

?? its literally 2 different calculations

[amber fractal]

It only gets worse with time, so 4 frames

[tender river]

doing a then b then a then b is not the same as doing a then a then b then b

[rigid snow]

the terminal framerate is 200 billion fps

[olive sable]

???
i meant if the updateloop is so behind it has to do 2 tick updates

thats bad

[tender river]

it can happen for a variety of reasons

language gc pause? os scheduling? the kernel thread hanging for a few seconds? there are so many things that can go wrong

theres so many more

[olive sable]

i feel like those are 0.00001% occurences

[tender river]

no

[amber fractal]

I love giving out ideas to the general public just because I can

[rigid snow]

skip ticks

[olive sable]

ok now you're jsut going off the deep end

absolutel dont skip ticks

[amber fractal]

Only I get to skip ticks if I use an insane window size in the openGL demo

[clear sedge]

https://tenor.com/view/king-crimson-diavolo-jojo-gif-22224719

[rigid snow]

mf
gc is frequent especially if low ram
scheduling will fuck some player over eventually

[olive sable]

i thought c++ didnt have gc?

[rigid snow]

and gc pauses can be REALLY bad, like 2s long bad in certain scenarios
try to run minecraft with 512mb alloc

[rigid snow]

it’s not a gc’d lang correct, but where did you say your opinion was cpp specific

[amber fractal]

-# That 11520x2160 playtest was fun tho

[tender river]

c++ doesnt but individual c++ frameworks do (qt and cocos2d for sure, many other ones too)

[olive sable]

sure i didnt

idk why yall went quiet

there is no but

[rigid snow]

i was washing conditioner off

is that a good enough reason

[amber fractal]

mhm

[rigid snow]

7%

[clear sedge]

i personally have my own shit going on i have to give attention to sometimes thank you very much

[amber fractal]

Forgot that rule of the internet smh

[rigid snow]

charge yo dam phone

[amber fractal]

I didn't bother to use forge as I'd grab my laptop at that point which can handle 512MB easily

[glad path]

TypeError: map() takes no keyword arguments since when were you not allowed to specify kwargs for normal args

huh

[olive sable]

wdym? like ye????
why wouldnt it be?

[rigid snow]

[opaque sigil]

everything before the / parameter has to be positional

been a thing forever

[clear sedge]

pythonicism

[opaque sigil]

anything over

def fun(*args, **kwargs)

[amber fractal]

I love network over the highways being garbage at times

[amber fractal]

1GB so it loads

[clear sedge]

29fps

[olive sable]

for that render distance, on a gaming phone, makes sense

[amber fractal]

I rarely use this phone for what it is meant for

[amber fractal]

I think it is ram limited still

Time to give it my usual amount of ram

[olive sable]

probably ye

[olive sable]

actually, doesn't that just make deltatime preferable in those scenarios?

[amber fractal]

Nah, it is probably just chunk updates eating CPU time

[tender river]

if you need determinism, you have to use ticks, no way around that

[amber fractal]

even swapping to modded didn't change much

[tender river]

well that or integers i guess? in some cases

[olive sable]

hmmm
i guess with collision detection you cant really move 2 ticks at the same time

you still need to do them sequentially

[amber fractal]

Insert meme here

[olive sable]

ok i give in

[clear sedge]

do you see the light

[olive sable]

ticks are better for specific usecases

[clear sedge]

yes

you see the light

[olive sable]

there iss till the issue of making sure your ticks happen at the correct time

[clear sedge]

correct

[olive sable]

having a loop that constantly checks if its time for a tick is not a great solution, you're wasting cpu resources like that imo

[amber fractal]

I'd need to join a server for max FPS yep

I did actually have this set to vsync

[tender river]

you mean while(true) with no yielding to os? ye nobody writes like that

[amber fractal]

As the rules go, not doing something is faster than doing it

[olive sable]

i mean getting the current time and checking if it matches a tick, i feel like doing that 200 billion times per second is a waste

[tender river]

and thats not how games do it

update -> draw -> sleep

[olive sable]

kinda, i put the updateloop in a seperate thread

[tender river]

same principle

[olive sable]

so then you update -> sleep -> update. and sure you can set the sleep to do the tickspeed, but i thought you said os scheduling would make it out of sync

[amber fractal]

There is no correct answer to this question

everything is subject to change

[clear sedge]

the correct answer is chug 16 shots of vodka down and go with whatever you wrote drunk

[olive sable]

amen

[amber fractal]

My honest opinion would to be store previous time and current time for dt calculations so that the combining of the systems doesn't have as much of an effect.

[olive sable]

hmm

[amber fractal]

Similar to how I did FPS in the triangle repo

except actually safe

[clear sedge]

vulkan users on their way to write shakespearean novels' worth of code to draw a triangle

[olive sable]

me fr fr

[clear sedge]

masochism

i respect you for that

[amber fractal]

I give credit to those who went for high FPS triangle

[olive sable]

im writing some pseudo-code for that but im getting lost in the sauce

[amber fractal]

-# I stripped so much of the mainloop for FPS gains

[amber fractal]

I probably screwed up my logic by not being in a code editor

[olive sable]

double lastStart = now();
while (running)
{
    double start = now();
    updatePhysics();
    double elapsed = now() - laststart;
    lastStart = start;
    sleep(tickRate - elapsed);
}

does this make sense???? i feel like it doesnt

[amber fractal]

programmer mode isn't active yet :SMH:

[clear sedge]

i think so?

wait

[amber fractal]

That'd be the graphics branch in my demo

[clear sedge]

oh that's fucking with my head

[olive sable]

ye

same

[amber fractal]

Let me just perish due to introducing more jank ideas and forcing someone else to write it

[olive sable]

for graphics im stil gonna use deltatime, its smoother and you dont need predeterminism

well, mostly

[clear sedge]

[amber fractal]

Yep, I accounted for that in my flowchart

[clear sedge]

updating graphics per-tick could make for a cool aesthetic though

[amber fractal]

Also geez we are finally at the campsite yippie!

[clear sedge]

minus the camera

[olive sable]

you might aswell just link your refreshrate to the tickrate

ah

in that case dont link your refreshrate

[clear sedge]

[amber fractal]

death to any user fr fr

Let me write out some sudocode for the flowchart

Better off me doing it

[clear sedge]

sudocode

sudo gcc -o main main.c

[olive sable]

i asked chatgpt just to make sure, and even it got confused

[amber fractal]

I always forget the spelling (and I forgor it was said earlier somehow)

[tender river]

os scheduling will mean it wont run at a 100% consistent rate

and its impossible to make it run at a 100% consistent rate

[olive sable]

so it will drift then no?

[clear sedge]

"agi 2026" headass

[tender river]

thats exactly the point of using ticks

right i wanted to go to sleep good night

[olive sable]

goodnight

[clear sedge]

i do need to sleep too

it's 2 am

nighty night

[olive sable]

ye it is indeed 2am

but nah

[clear sedge]

sleep

[olive sable]

nah

[clear sedge]

[amber fractal]

const double TPS = 20 / 1000;
double lastStart = now() + TPS;
double nextTick = now();
while (running)
{
    double start = now();
    if (start >= nextTick)
    {
        updatePhysics();
        nextTick += TPS;
    }
    /* Uhhhh that's an issue, frick */
    updateGraphics(elapsed);
    double elapsed = now() - lastStart;
    lastStart = start;
    /* who needs sleep */
}

[opaque sigil]

2am, perfect time to mess with the core of your system config

[olive sable]

this code was bad, i made it needlesly complicated.
simplified you jsut get:

double lastStart = now();
while (running)
{
    updatePhysics();
    double elapsed = now() - lastStart;
    lastStart = now();
    sleep(tickRate - elapsed);
}

i think this one does make more sense?

[amber fractal]

This is mostly what I wrote in the flowchart, minus a small parity issue which I'm unsure how to solve

[olive sable]

the problem with that is th elack of sleep

im pretty sure that just blocks the entire thread like that

[amber fractal]

I'll have to be back, need to help

I'll be spotty with messages

[olive sable]

[amber fractal]

I'd think it is fine given it is dealing with physics on tick or otherwise spamming graphics

[olive sable]

thats cuz you're doing graphics on the same thread i see

[rigid snow]

unrelated but what does beamng’s physics engine run at

like 2khz or something

you should do the same thing

[olive sable]

2K ye

[rigid snow]

totally worth it, trust

[olive sable]

no

im doing my tickspeed at vsync

[rigid snow]

perfect addition to your next 2d platformer

[rigid snow]

like the user defined one?

that’s a choice

[olive sable]

xD

what is that supposed to mean?

my idea is that if its at lower than vsync, it will be choppy, and at higher than vsync you calculate stuff you wont see

[rigid snow]

it means that i interpret “tickspeed tied to vsync” as tied to monitor refresh rate

[olive sable]

i meant monitor refreshrate ye

[rigid snow]

so it means if you game on a tv with a shit hdmi cable your tps will be 30, and some oiler will have 540

[olive sable]

yes

[rigid snow]

what’s the point of ticks then

[olive sable]

well

uh

[rigid snow]

it’s like you want both the disadvantages from deltatime and ticks

[olive sable]

im so confused rn

stop having a point

if the tickspeed is lower than the monitor refeshrate, then the physics will look ass

but if its too high then low end pc's wont be able to calculate them fast enough

https://tenor.com/view/throw-out-rage-parks-and-rec-nick-offerman-ron-swanson-gif-17688925

[rigid snow]

then don’t bother with ticks? if you want determinism you need to have fixed tickrate. yes tick based physics engines do slow down on shit systems, it’s just a matter of optimization

[amber fractal]

I can resolve my skill issue yippie

[olive sable]

[rigid snow]

but my personal opinion is you don’t actually need determinism in physics 99% of the time

unless you make your game based around physics. sam are you making half-life 3

[olive sable]

yes

[rigid snow]

broke nda or lying

[olive sable]

legally distinct half-alife 3

[amber fractal]

const double TPS = 20 / 1000;
double nextTick = now() + TPS;
double currentTick = now();
while (running)
{
    double start = now();
    if (start >= nextTick)
    {
        updatePhysics();
        nextTick += TPS;
    }
    double percentage = start - currentTick / TPS
    updateGraphics(percentage);
    /* who needs sleep */
}

[rigid snow]

full-death

[amber fractal]

@olive sable no more skill issue, this should now make sense

[olive sable]

it works for a single threaded loop ye

[rigid snow]

[amber fractal]

Update physics is updating a tick and graphics slowly approaching said new tick. I don't think this even has tick skip issues as you can probably compensate by using how much over you are from the nextTick. Still slow tho

Surely one can defer the physics part somehow.

What does suck is keeping a lastTick position and a currentTick position.

Or I guess probably offset from LastTick

-# I thought I was on vacation, why am I using my head to this degree?

Ending this here, good luck whoever ends up implementing this

btw, I think 120TPS is a good middle ground as this is essentially interloping physics frames.

[olive sable]

im so cooked

[amber fractal]

I said stop thinking, not "what about we try and take advantage of the area being constricted to only update rays every tick"

[rigid snow]

irl friend called me on discord to invite me to play and i sleep with pc and speakers on
it's 4am here

[olive sable]

this makes it so the inital drift is still present. so if the first loop was 1.2s instead of 1, then we are permanently 0.2s behind

i think thats fine?

[midnight sigil]

Iterative Search

[amber fractal]

only other option is to async physics and just make sure graphics can handle 100%+ updating a pointer to where the current game state is?

[olive sable]

https://tenor.com/view/monsters-vs-aliens-i-may-not-have-a-brain-gentlemen-but-i-have-an-idea-jelly-i-may-not-have-a-brain-i-have-an-idea-gif-16097667901967257851

double tick = now();
while (running)
{
    updatePhysics();

    tick += tickRate;
    sleep(tick - now());
}

wait

???

[amber fractal]

This just works as long as graphics can accept a percentage progress yep

[olive sable]

it would jsut use the old state, until it gets updated

interpolating between states makes latency and stuff happen

[amber fractal]

:hmm: you got a point there.

[midnight sigil]

[olive sable]

the reason os scheduling doesnt break this one is because it gets canceled out by the now() in the next loop i think???

[amber fractal]

os scheduling will always break, it's just a fact of life

[olive sable]

Uwu*****************@amd.com?

[faint sandal]

[e-mail]

[olive sable]

why the stars?

[midnight sigil]

redaction

[olive sable]

oohh

[faint sandal]

yes

[olive sable]

so [e-mail] isnt the full thing?

[faint sandal]

no it is not

[olive sable]

[amber fractal]

I think it is better this way tbh

[olive sable]

ok this one works probably i think mayhaps if the techlords are with me

🙏

[amber fractal]

I don't want to know what the rest of that email is

[olive sable]

sadly probably someones name

uwu is a lot funnier tho

[balmy nacelle]

for a dev blog i wonder what tool you guys would recommend using for? From what i see i cant just have it in a simple file in my project like how i did my patch notes and ima try to see if i can save myself from having to code a website for it lol

[faint sandal]

jekyll-based solution is easy enough

https://github.com/Still34/landing

basically all the markdowns will be rendered as static html, automatic if you have GitHub CI set up https://stillu.cc/

and if you wanna be even lazier you can just... serve straight markdown file to your audience

[jagged turtle]

client-side markdown rendering, surely will not cause problems

[faint sandal]

what

[jagged turtle]

nvm

im still goddamn tired after a camp

[rigid snow]

we finished

it's almost 7am

great

schedule fucked

[olive sable]

clang does not like std::atomic<float_t> with +=

but its completely fine with doign the smae thing with ints

and its even willing to compile the std::atomic<float_t> with +=, it just puts a problem into the vscode problems tab

weird

maybe a clangd issue?

[olive sable]

fixed it somehow

either cuz of updating, or cuz of using bear

i had to update to get bear

[amber fractal]

I thought we didn't want bears around here?

[olive sable]

aight, vulkan has msaa

there should be full visual parity between vulkan and opengl now

i also implemented the new tick system, and now the fps is a lot lower on vulkan. but i can't tell if its cuz of the msaa or the tick system being broken

the answer is both apparently, ill look into it

its doing msaa 8x apparently, so that explains why msaa has a noticeable effect. ill max it to 4x

[thick imp]

tutel

[olive sable]

[olive sable]

it was in fact, not fine

[glad path]

me when linktree

that's completely valid

[amber fractal]

Submit it anyways

surely you can just delete the JS check

One of these days Sam is going to add VR support just to spite VRC and it'll be at over 1000fps.

[olive sable]

ill see if im able to do that

it should run faster, but idk by how much

[amber fractal]

I've been trying to research on how to hook it up

[olive sable]

btw, if anyone comes in here again and talks about ticks vs deltatime i will throw a patato at them

[amber fractal]

no luck so far, but at least one part is camera per eye

Finally got answers, sadly the answer is custom SDL fork that has major issues still.

[olive sable]

id guess we woudlnt use sdl then

[amber fractal]

For your own research, your targeting OpenXR support

That is what SteamVR and the other linux alternatives target.

It'd be so damn funny by the end of this to just casually have a VRC replacement. That does sound like too much of zero budget tho.

Honestly I'd just be happy to see VR that doesn't tank FPS

[olive sable]

budget isn't exactly 0, i just haven't spent anything yet

pfff

lets say the budget is maybe 50 bucks

[amber fractal]

I admit that it'd be worth learning c++ for, though I'd also be donating to the fund because I think it would be fun to make.

Once this fricking job goes through that is

[glad path]

I. KEEP. READING. THIS. AS. DELTARUNE. EVERY TIME.

[thick imp]

LOL

[faint sandal]

https://tenor.com/view/battery-explosion-explode-explodes-unboxing-gif-26046605

[olive sable]

🔥

idk what they expected but sure

[faint sandal]

i'm more concerned that it's on a bed

at least it looks like a bed

[hoary lion]

it seems so

[olive sable]

ok i have made it a tick based system now

the repo has been updated, it mostly work

[clear sedge]

[olive sable]

the code is fugly tho

https://github.com/samvanmaele/vulkan/tree/useful_stuff

these std::chrono functions feel like a crime everytime i use them

const clock::duration UPDATE_DELTA = std::chrono::duration_cast<clock::duration>(std::chrono::duration<double>(TICK_RATE));
this should be illegal

i hate how i have to use this

maybe i can use uints like before but then convert to a std::chrono time when i need it for std::this_thread::sleep_until(nextTime);???

[clear sedge]

std::chrono is pretty wordy

[maiden geyser]

what C++ does to a mf

[obsidian mantle]

why does noone use "using namespace std;"

[maiden geyser]

it's bad

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fw4AgfpaYAA_ZKu.jpg

[obsidian mantle]

huh

[thick imp]

well i study on my bed and i got good grades

good idea to use that same bed for engineering

[olive sable]

I see

Might aswell use that same bed for cooking then

[olive sable]

Cuz it fucks up import shit

[thick imp]

exactly

[faint sandal]

the latency is not great though ideally i'd use the COM interface instead of the http comms, but the COM comm requires elevation

[midnight sigil]

[nocturne olive]

Wha?

[faint sandal]

the "how long can i RE a binary without hitting the decompile button" challenge

[tender river]

f5 = shock

[thick imp]

good idea t

[midnight sigil]

shock

[stray dragon]

?

what idea

[tender river]

[faint sandal]

shock

[obsidian mantle]

ok so i figured out how to see my qt installations

however this tool doesnt see qt6 so i just removed qt6 just in case

then i tried set up qt_choose varibale

which is absolutely ignored

then if it cant see qt6

what if it doesnt see some other qt

so stupid

so i have no idea who uses qt, which qt is used, are my qts even valid

since i dont know who uses qt when i rup my app, i cant configure it to use different qt

and i dont even have qt5/bin folder

"referred by another package"

maybe tell me WHICH package?

naah

its linux, boy

if its possible to make something more complex and ambiguous for no reason - we make it

i cant believe they are using english, should have made everything in bytecode for additional coolness

[hexed grove]

this means another package depends on it

that package is broken as well

[obsidian mantle]

broken as well

as well as what

do i have something else broken

[hexed grove]

i'd believe so because your vigorously trying to install qt5 while qt6 is there

why use the older version if not needed

so i assume you need it

[obsidian mantle]

because qtchooser doesnt support qt6

and i clearly need to do some rituals involving choosing

[hexed grove]

why exactly

qtchooser is no longer maintained

[obsidian mantle]

how else can i make it choose specific qt version

when i just ./chess.appimage

it runs it with random qt version that has no way to be configured

i asssume its this

this file is not readable nor writable

[hexed grove]

so precompiled app you need to choose qt version?

[obsidian mantle]

yes

is it impossible

[hexed grove]

its a hard dep in app

you cant choose it

[obsidian mantle]

but why

[hexed grove]

qt6 has a different abi then qt5

or whatever your app is using

[obsidian mantle]

it probably doesnt use qt5 or qt6

i have qt4 installed and "default"

i assume it uses "default"

[hexed grove]

man why dont you just change source code and theme it as you please

[obsidian mantle]

its nice how someone decided to call his program version just "default"

[obsidian mantle]

"just"

i looked up main.cpp of program it has nothing where they choose qt version

[hexed grove]

send gh link

[obsidian mantle]

https://github.com/cutechess/cutechess/tree/master/projects/gui/src

i guess i need this folder

[hexed grove]

one sec

[obsidian mantle]

it has this which is not getting printed at all

oh shit

i need to run it with -v

i dont even have this version????

[hexed grove]

its statically comiled

its in the app

[obsidian mantle]

or do they mean it was built with qt6

[rough bloom]

seems like it wants either Qt 5 or 6

[rough bloom]

[obsidian mantle]

qt itself is in the app?

[hexed grove]

yeah

man

[obsidian mantle]

so i must rebuild it to change theme

[hexed grove]

mhm

[hexed grove]

your in ubuntu wsl?

try running QT_QPA_PLATFORMTHEME=gtk3 ./EXAMPLENAME.AppImage

gtk3 should provide a dark theme

[obsidian mantle]

why is this so slow

[hexed grove]

yknow what

[obsidian mantle]

i'll try after build

it warned my that "operations like gitlone are slow in wsl on windows filesystem", does it appear for building too

[midnight sigil]

why do you want to build your own cutechess

[obsidian mantle]

it has no dark theme on linux

[midnight sigil]

that's it?

XD

[obsidian mantle]

my eyes sore in the night

because of blazing white

fullscreened

[midnight sigil]

doing it the programmer way mhm

[obsidian mantle]

which folder in linux can i work in

[midnight sigil]

just use windows

[obsidian mantle]

usr/ is permission denied

usr/local is permission denied

i dont want to make sudo before every command

will it work if i make folder and chmod it

or will it see it as a unrestricted subfolder of restricted folder and deny everything

(i think it worked like that in that debian i encountered)

[hexed grove]

the home directory?!??!?!

[obsidian mantle]

not obvious at all

usr is user, isnt it? why cant user use user folder

huh

classic

[rough bloom]

make subdirectory somewhere in your user directory
don't need to install globally if you just want to test

[rough bloom]

usr = unix system resources

[obsidian mantle]

WHO ABBREVIATES IT LIKE THAT

[hexed grove]

at&t apparently

[obsidian mantle]

no perms

whatever i'll try chmodding it

[rough bloom]

do not

just use your user directory

[hexed grove]

/home/ituha

THATS YOUR HOME

[obsidian mantle]

ooh i see

[hexed grove]

OR ~/

cd ~/

[obsidian mantle]

it works

[hexed grove]

who coulda guessed

now please dont destroy your system

okay?

[obsidian mantle]

build is x5 times faster

[midnight sigil]

so you're using WSL

why don't just use windows cutechess

[midnight sigil]

isn't it universal system resources

[obsidian mantle]

initial idea was, that it might potentially cause problems if i make it on windows, but shiro compiles it on linux

now i doubt it would cause problems... however

[midnight sigil]

this is the advantage of using Python

[obsidian mantle]

but actually i think more and more about switching to windows entirely to use vscode live debugging

[midnight sigil]

it should be fine as you're just using the std libs

[obsidian mantle]

its much easier with breakpoints and live debugging

instead of logging shit

[rough bloom]

apparently also yes?
it originates from Unix so both names make sense, the FHS doesn't specify the full name so it's all unofficial anyway

[obsidian mantle]

NOW THE QUESTION
if my build was x5 times slower in windows filesystem, does it make my cutechess slower too?

[hexed grove]

uh no?

[obsidian mantle]

the cpu seems to be used much but what if it was wasted on filesystem transfering

[hexed grove]

once its in ram shouldnt matter

[obsidian mantle]

oh ok

[hexed grove]

the difference shouldnt be the filesystem

it would be the linux hypovisor in wsl

[rough bloom]

if you're on Windows 11 you should be able to just run VS Code inside of WSL too

[midnight sigil]

wsl shares the same filesystem

I/O redirecting shouldn't take much time

[midnight sigil]

🥀 just stick with windows or entirely move to linux

[obsidian mantle]

no way. i just built it in linux and it automatically has dark theme now

[hexed grove]

https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/remote/wsl

[rough bloom]

yes, ideally the latter option

[obsidian mantle]

i slightly want to learn linux

just for the sake of it

[hexed grove]

-# do it

[obsidian mantle]

but i dont want to play with dualsystem switching from linux to windows so i stick to wsl

[midnight sigil]

I dual-boot Debian and Windows 11

[obsidian mantle]

i go program chess whenver i need it and just close wsl and continue doing things in windows

[rough bloom]

I know but this is kinda annoying to use when you're already on the same machine
since it's WSL there's no need for this since WSLg was integrated

[obsidian mantle]

what the hell is this shit

cant have file and folder of same name

[hexed grove]

i love btrfs

/dev/mmcblk0p1   14G  6.4G  7.0G  48% /```

[midnight sigil]

it's for backward compatibility

[obsidian mantle]

ok now my chess building is fucked up

ohhh

im in ~

stoopid me

wait

its light theme when i run it from there

ok so i entirely migrate to linux filesystem then

[rough bloom]

I would love btrfs too if not for the RAID5/6 issue

sadly bcachefs isn't really reliable yet

[hexed grove]

what about zfs?

doesn't fit your needs?

[obsidian mantle]

???

[rough bloom]

would work probably, but adds extra complexity + isn't upstreamed in the Linux kernel

[hexed grove]

chmod +x ./cutechess

[obsidian mantle]

what does it want

[hexed grove]

https://openworld.news/windows-on-btrfs/ i found something cursed

now i wanna try it

[obsidian mantle]

its still white theme

[rough bloom]

WinBtrfs

[obsidian mantle]

does it need some ini file with it

[hexed grove]

WAIT

it has better compression than ntfs

windows on 4g partition?

ive done it on 6 gigs before

[obsidian mantle]

now it runs in light theme from the same folder i run it here

but at least i have this.. wont be a problem now

thanks for big help

it all worked out

[ember spindle]

Damn, haven't been popping in here as much as I wanted to when I joined lol. Started remembering that I kind of wanted to try and make a level creator for that Quest Through the Harrison Temple game, it was fun messing around with it and speedrunning it lol.

[midnight sigil]

Now with Principal Variation Search, Quiescene Search + Late Move Pruning, Futility Pruning + Late Move Reduction

less nodes is required to search for depth 8 compared to the previous depth 6

[obsidian mantle]

what

when i try to implement something new it either looks like shit or makes it worse

how do you even choose what to make

there are 500 different strategies with questionable perfomance

[obsidian mantle]

no transpositions?

[midnight sigil]

yes tranpositions

I have

[obsidian mantle]

oh wait its

its 100 seconds

[midnight sigil]

yuh

for depth 9

it's more like the evaluation function messing the time up

it sucks

[obsidian mantle]

i'll measure time per layer too
told it to stop when 100 seconds reached

[midnight sigil]

I use playerTimeLeft / 8

or uh 12.5% of the clock of the current player

that's his max search time

[obsidian mantle]

ok so after layer 5 it started really slowing down

depth 5 was 3.6 seconds
depth 6 was 36 seconds

[midnight sigil]

it grows exponentially

[obsidian mantle]

not yours though

so i guess these things you did actually work

[midnight sigil]

well there's a lot of pruning methods I used

reduction helps a lot too

basically ignoring to evaluate some moves

down side is heavily depends on move ordering

[obsidian mantle]

but then it gives 0

and if you have bad moves everywhere and this is 0

it will be chosen but what if its super bad move

[midnight sigil]

it doesn't matter at that point then

[obsidian mantle]

but it will be evaluated back to the depth0

oh i mean maxdepth

uhh i dont get it

[obsidian mantle]

it always feels like "man this strategy sucks it will cause random false evaluations"

[obsidian mantle]

is it in quiescence or normal search?

[midnight sigil]

normal search

[obsidian mantle]

do you have iterative search

[midnight sigil]

the reduction is carefully crafted that you won't get depth 0 results

[midnight sigil]

yes

otherwise you won't be seeing the layer thing

[obsidian mantle]

oh right

[uneven pulsar]

awa

[midnight sigil]

awa

[obsidian mantle]

im also scared to add more things because im still not sure my current things work

no idea how to check if its right or not

it wins agains my old bot but my old bot is just a dum

and then i have 2 versions of this current bot but they can both have same problems i dont see

[midnight sigil]

do more tests

[obsidian mantle]

how do you end quiescence?

idk how to test it

[midnight sigil]

wuh?

just iterate through all captures

[obsidian mantle]

only captures? what about checks

i thought if i let it go on checks it will evade mates

[midnight sigil]

it's actually just this in Sebastian's video

https://youtu.be/U4ogK0MIzqk?t=1021

[obsidian mantle]

that i saw

[midnight sigil]

and that's called an extention

Q-search is only used to find quiet positions

[obsidian mantle]

i do it like this