programming

[opaque sigil]

maybe

[rigid snow]

compiling the html file that ends up being displayed is called rendering

[old totem]

maybe i just be a bum and switch from cs to it and learn python

[opaque sigil]

most likely less work than trying to deal with the clusterf*ck that is trying to write assembly for windows

[olive sable]

website rendering is a solved issue, this is just lies and deceit for onedrive's back-end being broken

[old totem]

cs might be a lost cause

[rigid snow]

Server-side rendering (SSR) is a web development technique where web pages are generated on the server and sent to the client's browser as fully rendered HTML. This approach improves loading times and enhances SEO by making it easier for search engines to index the content.

[olive sable]

bruh

[opaque sigil]

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/install it's not that much effort to install btw (provided you have the resources to run the vm)

[old totem]

i assume i dont have to delete windows?

[opaque sigil]

no

[olive sable]

they're over-complicating it at this point.
is it so hard to optemize things in 2025?

[opaque sigil]

[olive sable]

its fucking onedrive, i need lines and text

[old totem]

sorry i might have to do all this tomorrow theres so much reading

[amber fractal]

unknowingly subjecting this soul to endless torture smh

[rough bloom]

your first mistake was using OneDrive
-# but you already know that

[opaque sigil]

trust me, this is the lesser evil

[olive sable]

this is for school. i use my laptop for stuff

[rigid snow]

"over-complicating" bro web is server rendered by default. client-side rendering only became a thing in like late 2000s

[real sierra]

I didn't realize it when I first set up my PC but it defaulted to putting my desktop on OneDrive

[rigid snow]

when js slowly stopped becoming as shit as it was

[olive sable]

thats good

wait a second

if its server rendered, that shoudl be even less cause for "rendering issues" cuz it uses the same system each time it renders

[amber fractal]

read: template error

[lilac lantern]

Not setting up a local-only account on Windows

[real sierra]

laughed at for not being level 99 Windows user

[old totem]

shiro

[real sierra]

NEUROFAN

omgomgomg

[olive sable]

[real sierra]

[old totem]

hello!!

[real sierra]

I haven't seen you in ages

[old totem]

yeah....

[real sierra]

how are you

[old totem]

in process of going to hell

aka assembly learning

[lilac lantern]

[amber fractal]

template string but html
-# so a string

[real sierra]

did you happen to see

the chess bot contest

[old totem]

the.. older one?

wait what chess bot contest

[real sierra]

#mod-announcements

mine!

[olive sable]

i dont get how that causes issues

[lilac lantern]

this one

[real sierra]

[old totem]

oh god

i can try but i cant play chess for shit

[real sierra]

it's ok nobody knows what they're doing

[old totem]

[real sierra]

I also can't play chess for shit

im like 500 elo

[lilac lantern]

submit a chess bot that only does random moves

[real sierra]

it turns out that playing chess and making a chess bot are very different skills

it's just a fun challenge but you should totally join

[opaque sigil]

think of it this way: template expects an object with certain keys to be passed to create the html
key doesn't exist, it blows up

[old totem]

i can make a bot that makes random chess moves

[real sierra]

probably good to note

I wrote a helpful API that does all the boilerplate for you

[old totem]

wait

[real sierra]

so you don't have to worry about making code for finding legal moves and stuff

[old totem]

did you do allat in python

[real sierra]

you just have to write the strategy part of the bot

[real sierra]

C

[old totem]

[lilac lantern]

im betting it all on neurofan

[real sierra]

there are bindings to the API in a number of other languages

see the GitHub for details

[old totem]

dont

[real sierra]

[olive sable]

you're overestimating my knowledge of web stuff. why would the key not exist?

[real sierra]

all bets on neurofan

you'll sweep

[old totem]

i might procrastinate and not do it possibly

[opaque sigil]

sometimes you expect data to be there and it's not there

[real sierra]

submissions are open until Nov 14, and I promise there isn't much code to write

there is a tight max-size restriction on your source code

I hit the cap around 200 lines in C

[olive sable]

i kinda need this file tho.

[amber fractal]

Model but the texture entered the shadow realm, so you error saying no texture

[old totem]

200 lines with my hard coding expertise

i think im cooked

[opaque sigil]

important to say it's 200 lines of the most cursed c you'll find

[real sierra]

your opponent isn't stockfish, or even a human

you just have to be better than the other tiny chess bot you're facing

that's the bar

I welcome you to check out the contest page and maybe give it a try ^^

it's all for fun

[torpid kelp]

no line breaks or comments y'all ,
i'm cooked

[obsidian mantle]

today's prune attempts had only 1 successful variant that was too slow (won in 2 minutes)
when i tried to make it faster, it started losing to un-pruned bot

unpruned finishes game within 20 sec but doesnt go deep at all

[amber fractal]

This is not a smallest file contest

[real sierra]

I was being hand wavey with the size constraint

see contest details

it's been done in a way to try and avoid people just shrinking variables and stuff

[obsidian mantle]

i also realised that its possible to make it faster by making it less token-efficient

[real sierra]

it's a limit on tokens, which better approximates your code complexity

whitespace doesn't count

[amber fractal]

macros

[obsidian mantle]

no

isnt macros useless performance-wise

[real sierra]

effectively yes

technically you avoid function call overhead

[old totem]

i realized im super cooked when i read the source code for the api and dont know what half of these structs are for

[obsidian mantle]

i should measure parts of code that are slow

i mean find out what is slow, by measuring

is it viable to measure nanoseconds

or measure itself is too disturbing

[real sierra]

you only need to use the stuff in the header the wiki has documentation for most supported languages

[real sierra]

I would just use a profiler

[old totem]

i guess its good for learning

[obsidian mantle]

you dont need to know entire code of api

[real sierra]

if you're using c, you can look up how to use gprof

[real sierra]

no pressure! lots of people in this channel are taking part and happy to offer advice

there are example bots too that show the basics

[old totem]

i do this a lot

i only ever consider myself good when i understand the back end of things

[amber fractal]

There is at least one person who has their bot OSS if you look back far enough

[obsidian mantle]

my current bot is pretty simple but still beats random bot every time

[old totem]

i think the "can i recreate this api from scratch"

probably not

but if i can then cool

[opaque sigil]

most of the complexity comes from chess just being a really complicated game tbf

[obsidian mantle]

en passant

[real sierra]

most of the logic is actually pretty straightforward

en passant sucks though

castling is annoying but not quite as bad

just involves weird masks with my implementation

[old totem]

idk how i could even remake chess

oh god that sounds like an awful project

after this event how about a checkers event

[obsidian mantle]

i find it satisfying when my bot outplays me

[old totem]

[real sierra]

my bot outplays me reliably but I don't know if that makes me bad or my bot good

[old totem]

if i can code my bot to move a pawn i think i'll be happy

thats my goal for this event

[real sierra]

the information that my bot is better at chess than I am is not really new information no matter how many times I confirm it

[real sierra]

I think this is a very easy goal, I think you'll find this the case too

[old totem]

we'll see...

[amber fractal]

Jank API goes a long way

[lilac lantern]

||holy hell||

[long barn]

how do I program a happy birthday message for someone

im sorry I'll go back to general forever.

[amber fractal]

I'll be working on this in another repo. It is as good as any reason to learn

Man I wish I could fork my own repo

[rough bloom]

you can
if there's an issue you can always just add an empty repo as a new remote and push to that

[amber fractal]

I meant on github as I'm working on the github actions. Would be nice to have an easy button for it.
I just yoinked what I needed and started another repo

[rough bloom]

adding another remote is pretty easy but starting a new repo works I guess, just needs some extra work to move commits around later

[amber fractal]

I mean I'm just using it as I have no idea how to github action and would rather not spam the FAQ repo now that more people are working on it

[nocturne olive]

I don't know when I'll be looking at Chess bot stuff again, I may or may not have diverted every bit of motivation I have towards fully labelling, myself, a Japanese voice dataset for NS

[obsidian mantle]

there is still plenty of time to make something decent

[nocturne olive]

Well the dataset will take a ton of time

[amber fractal]

I'm probably not making it to chess, I got other community projects to maintain. Also I still need to have a NN framework to enter with.

[ebon basin]

I making progress: data: {
message: 'Neuro Status Update: Health: 100 %, Stress: 0 %, Calories: 76 %, Stamina: 45 %, Current Task: Downtime: Use Toilet',

[rigid snow]

[nocturne olive]

Progress on what?

[amber fractal]

[ebon basin]

Guess what game this is what I mod atm ^^

Its Oxygen not Included

[nocturne olive]

Oh makes sense kinda

[ebon basin]

First time I connect with the mod and the mok server

[amber fractal]

Alrighty, so I guess I'll be using fragments for this. A lot of others are using S3 or similar, but as long as I can yoink the fragment link that'll work. Can probably reuse said fragment

[rigid snow]

what i have is so complex already i'm not sure how it'd work without a component abstraction and, subsequently, a build step and it's not like there is a definite solution either i'm 100% confident in

i'm so used to the product having a framework

also embedding images as base64 is not a thing you do in html, sure you can but in svg it's just a product of how most people work with svgs, that being using software like inkscape or ai or figma or whatever

don't worry about it now i'll make it work

[amber fractal]

I did what I had to back when it was a single file. As you could probably tell, I didn't use an GUI editor at all.

[rigid snow]

besides the image thing, i'm not leaving this in

[amber fractal]

Yeah no

[rigid snow]

do i just src="assets/omegalul.png" or something

[amber fractal]

that one needed to be removed as soon as it got to being a repo

[amber fractal]

Yeah, feel free to grab a neuro one if you want

[rigid snow]

i don't even have the repo cloned at this point i'm still designing

[amber fractal]

I'd say don't worry about it. We can add build steps

[rigid snow]

later later

[rigid snow]

^

[amber fractal]

Got it, just letting you know to not stress over it

The code in the repo is dealing with templating anyways. Might as well go more complex if we need to.

I'm honestly considering scrapping the existing code tho. Too many issues

[nocturne olive]

Whar you sillying?

[amber fractal]

I shouldn't have to manually edit in proper multiline tables from MD to HTML

[simple sky]

I have to build a CRM for a senior capstone

[tender river]

https://tenor.com/view/neuro-sama-neuro-bread-thanos-snap-gif-16902164402284093475

phew

made it in time

[sage crag]

you explode

6 hour later

[amber fractal]

Can't use fragments
No links to embed

[tender river]

just in time

[amber fractal]

As my unbiased consultant for this feature request, we have two methods I can think of to make this happen. Either I use S3 or another image site, or I dedicate a branch for hashed images to embed in issues.

[rigid snow]

can an action not upload to comments?

weird

[amber fractal]

gh actions just used gh cli for this, which has the filetype skill issue

[amber fractal]

It can upload, just not images

[rigid snow]

[amber fractal]

https://github.com/cli/cli/issues/1895#issuecomment-718899617

Issue in question

Direct SVG edits do somehow show previews

I'm not questioning how it decided to allow rendering SVG diffs

[amber fractal]

Imma be honest, cleanup would be fricking ugly but it is possible if we went with branch

[rigid snow]

svg is embeddable into md by technicality

[sage crag]

provided your md preprocessor supports html

[rigid snow]

because md allows html and svg is valid html

ye

not sure if this is related tho

[amber fractal]

I was already planning on migrating to md for commits and generating SVG eventually. So maybe we just stick with text mabe

Let me test with SVG instead of png because it does diff

I am blind maybe

[olive sable]

[amber fractal]

I was blind, but lets see if png works

[amber fractal]

nix is taking forever to generate the PNG

Installing all of firefox is a lot to download

[rigid snow]

surely there is a browser in their env

[amber fractal]

I had to install firefox even on ubuntu, I switched to nix because it was half the time

[rigid snow]

action runners have toooons of shit

maybe firefox is there

[amber fractal]

surely

[sage crag]

i keep reading jwt as jwst

[amber fractal]

I see a firefox, let's see how this works (I'll take the caching)

[rigid snow]

https://github.com/actions/runner-images/blob/1c513424de41db8207a4e751e9719a42d773e568/images/ubuntu/toolsets/toolset-2204.json#L311

[amber fractal]

Alrighty, I'll see to it hopefully working

[rigid snow]

does selenium ship with chromium or does it download at runtime

[amber fractal]

command not found

Next up is the firefox one I guess

https://github.com/browser-actions/setup-firefox/blob/master/README.md

[amber fractal]

Not like this'll work on this step due to major skill issue. SVG works but is text only

So I might as well use this as an opportunity to fix up the firefox install process

impled, now to see if it is faster. After that to get the two actions to stop fighting.

[rigid snow]

i am very tired and am going to sleep

this is what i have. i did not touch table styling yet

tomorrow

[jagged turtle]

what did I miss

[amber fractal]

We take those, from 30s -> 15s

Now time to get the github actions to stop fighting

[amber fractal]

Me messing up styling so bad someone else decided to take it on

[jagged turtle]

:classic: frontend dev

[rigid snow]

[jagged turtle]

how was sleep

[amber fractal]

I'm going to deal with how exactly to send over an embed later, we either have S3 or jank. At least I have a repo to test this with.

[jagged turtle]

I can have a separate r2 bucket set up or smth, not really using all 10GB of my free quota anytime soon anyways

[rigid snow]

i am eating

[jagged turtle]

nom nom nom

[rigid snow]

then sleep

[amber fractal]

Ideally I'd really not want to bother with setting up such, I'll deal with it later.

[olive sable]

[jagged turtle]

*if necessary, not saying you have to

[amber fractal]

I feel like the other method is a warcrime so...

[jagged turtle]

?

which method

[amber fractal]

Here is the other apporach for dealing with the "how do we send embeds to the user in PRs"

• decicated branch for a load of PNG files
• from a github action, we add to this branch (hashing based on commit)
• we embed using github user content

[amber fractal]

Exhibit A on why this is even needed

[jagged turtle]

lmfao

[amber fractal]

So it is a method, I'd not rate it highly

[amber fractal]

Both of these are done, next would be github pages.

I got the test repo so might as well, will have to retool for html of course

[mighty bane]

Idea: a collection of .json files storing long-term memory/preferences and throug h this: Neuro-emergent personality engine with epistemic resistance, developmental authority decay, and confirmation-weighted belief scaffolding. Yes, no?

[amber fractal]

maybe not, I think that one is better tested on the actual site until I have a domain for it

[mighty bane]

Why not D:

[amber fractal]

Don't want to have to deal with swapping repos for the pages

[opaque sigil]

why does bit magic have to be so efficient space wise, this is annoying to use

[thick thicket]

[opaque sigil]

i found a nice way to save memory at least, instead of having to use a separate array to hold the mapping from items to bucket indices i can hash the items directly and just write the bucket index into the upper bits (and reserve the MSB for indicating if it's the primary or secondary bucket)

makes sorting them by bucket index later on very convenient

[tacit plover]

Is it still a bad time to ask for advice with godot

[opaque sigil]

Who knows, there are probably some people here that know a thing or two about godot so could be worth a try (not me though)

[tacit plover]

Last time everyone just told me to switch to unity

[safe path]

sanest shortcut to open all folds (not toggle, just open)

on god typing M-x open-all is faster than this shortcut

[glad path]

hi

[wild wadi]

[glad path]

bye

[tender river]

its just holding ctrl and typing cfaf but it looks so complicated

in vim its zO i think

no zR

fake vim fan

in helix i do formatting using a command (:fmt) because theres no builtin key for it and i'm too lazy to come up with a good location for it

[tacit plover]

How long should a mouse click be held for before it's considered press and hold?

[glad path]

like 0.5s?

try it and see what works

[tacit plover]

That'd be a bit long for stuff like videogames no?

What even is the average click length

[tender river]

its fine to make it like 100-200ms

you can add more complex heuristics like, did the user move their cursor far while holding the mouse button?

if they didnt its a click, if they did its a drag

[tacit plover]

"It shows that the average mouse click lasts 85ms, with Q3 = 95ms, Q1= 75ms; with an upper fence of 135ms and a lower fence of 55ms."

So 150ms should be alright

[nocturne olive]

I have no idea what I'm doing

Other than that there's massive oneliners

Kotlin STD abuse at its finest

[obsidian mantle]

Why only 1 line

Does it take a token

[nocturne olive]

I don't know, it shouldn't take a token but I just wrote it that way

For some reason

As I said I don't know what I'm doing I'm just reading the Chess programming wiki

[obsidian mantle]

I thought you had working bot with recursion which just crashed when its too deep

[nocturne olive]

Nah that thing sucks

It's way too inefficient and not built for this

So I'm kinda starting from scratch or something

[obsidian mantle]

My unpruned recursion works well with just myturn-enemyrurn-myturn

[nocturne olive]

It gets worse with recursion

The old bot

It sucks so bad

So guess now I'm implementing techniques I find on the Chess programming wiki and hoping it does, something

I just felt like doing it this way, first go without research until I get stuck, then go with research from scratch

Well I got stuck when recusion broke everything, so now I'm doing from scratch while looking at an actual search algo type thing

[obsidian mantle]

Pruning breaks my bot too (makes him worse). I guess its because my pruning was bad. Will try more today

There is no way that going deeper actually makes bot worse in theory, right?

I need to profile first to see what is slow because current variant is unacceptable. Simple check of "is it trade or mate if you do it" on 1 additional layer of recursion slows it by 5 times at least.

Even thought its supposed to be extremely easy check compared to what i do in "normal" layer

[nocturne olive]

That is what happened with my old one

[shadow sinew]

I have the feeling the problem with deeply minmaxing bots is that they assume the other side will pick optimal moves as well.

[obsidian mantle]

Why is this a problem?
You just play around worst scenario

Which should be profitable

Unless your pruning can cut actual good moves but thats a problem of pruning

[sage crag]

thats not a problem

thats how you win zero sum games

[rigid snow]

html codes stupid why ' is ' (single quote) and not ʼ (actual apostrophe)

[obsidian mantle]

What

[rigid snow]

apostrophe is ʼ

[obsidian mantle]

How do you even type that

[rigid snow]

well it's one of those things that aren't on keyboard layouts, like you know you type - (minus) instead of a dash

on macs you can hold down alt and get variations

on ios the keyboard has the correct symbols outright depending on context
it’s ‘quote’ “double quotes”

ms word replaces to correct ones too

[obsidian mantle]

Doesnt sound convenient

Who would use something like that in code

Or you need actual apostrophe but it replaces it with quote

[rigid timber]

because html character entities are only for ascii characters because an actual apostrophe character can't be confused by the parser for anything else...

[obsidian mantle]

Now i get it

[rigid snow]

because it's html meaning it'll be displayed to someone, i want the correct symbol displayed
and basically no one can type them out so better leave them as html char codes for maintainability

[rigid timber]

well actually no, there's named entities for stuff beyond the ascii character set... but those were added later

[rigid snow]

to avoid copypasting

[sage crag]

wir

[rigid snow]

it is konii

hai

[sage crag]

[obsidian mantle]

tv lady

[rigid timber]

actually better yet... ' was defined in XML first in 1997 so it's probably a compatibility thing from that

[sage crag]

[rigid snow]

still stupid

[rigid timber]

pretty sure people weren't exactly concerned with nice apostophes back then

[obsidian mantle]

So the issue is
It is called apos (short apostrophe) but doesnt work like one

[rigid snow]

it's just not an apostrophe, it looks similar but it's not

[rigid timber]

now that I'm pretty sure is from typewriters bc you couldn't fit so many keys so they simplified

[rigid snow]

we have " why not &squot; or something why ' though

[rigid timber]

because it was used as an apostrophe bc you didn't have an actual apostrophe character

[rigid snow]

right

[obsidian mantle]

The guy who invented that didnt care if its apostrophe or not so just slammed it together "looks the same to me"

[rigid timber]

UTF-8 wasn't in wide use back then, it was just getting started

[rigid snow]

yeyeye

[rigid timber]

tbh there's a ton of legacy baggage over basically every internet standard

[midnight sigil]

what if I do

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

[rigid timber]

@ Shiro can you add flipTable() kthx

[midnight sigil]

you can prevent that with MCTS(Monte Carlo Tree Search) or stuff like that

[sage crag]

you wont believe this

but thats also part of zero sum games

people go learn some game theory

[midnight sigil]

by flipping the table, I lost the friendship with my opponent

[midnight sigil]

Py binding
moves = board.get_legal_moves()
for move in moves

am I the one dumb or the function returns wrong types, pawns are now rooks and knights are now bishops

@real sierra

[real sierra]

how the hell

[midnight sigil]

[real sierra]

there isn't a pattern it's just wrong

f2f3 is also a rook

idk how that even happened

latest change to the python bindings should not have changed like

anything

I won't have time to look into this for a bit sadly

[dry charm]

i call this the chatgpt gambit

you warned in the repo that the board state is not cleared

imagine a gamemode where random pieces change types

"Oh yeah, that pawn? it's a rook now"

[midnight sigil]

so knights turn out to be also kings

actually everything are kings

and the actual king is none of course, and in the same time also a queen, somehow

[real sierra]

how

push requests welcome if you find out what the bug is

cuz the bindings are not complicated, I'm a bit bamboozled at how this has happened

[midnight sigil]

let me see if this happens in C

oh it's me being dumb

should be get_piece_from_bitboard

oopsies

it's regulated now

maybe a check if index passed for get_piece_from_index exceed 0~63 can be done

just saying

[real sierra]

performance loss to avoid user error?

[midnight sigil]

[real sierra]

even if it did exceed 0-63 what am I supposed to do about it

it's C

i don't have exceptions

[midnight sigil]

shutdown the user's pc

👍

[real sierra]

my favourite is

printf("this error happened: ...");
int t = rand() / 0;

then you get a stack trace to where the error occured

[midnight sigil]

force trigger

imagine too poor to afford a debugger

[real sierra]

breakpoints and shit take forever to set up in gdb

faster to type two lines of code and recompile

[midnight sigil]

:neuroBounce: use virtual studio

I mean

[real sierra]

I'm not installing all of visual studio just to debug

[midnight sigil]

visual studio

buh

[real sierra]

it's ok I misread it correctly the first time anyway

[clear sedge]

use kdevelop

[real sierra]

never heard of kdevelop

whomegalul tool

[clear sedge]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-crying-meme-doggo-crys-megan-soo-crying-dog-gif-5276199764143986284

kdevelop underrated

[rigid snow]

looks interesting, visually reminds me of xcode for some reason

[opaque sigil]

Shiro you know vs code comes with some debuggers too right

[fierce nova]

I "love" live coding interviews with time limits. Had to google how to sort an array in desc instead of asc coz was nervous and forgor

[rigid snow]

what

just switch the comparison sign if you're sorting manually

[fierce nova]

nah, was java streams, forgot that it's just .reversed() and not some flag in comparator

[real sierra]

getting shit to work in vs code is something I hate

despise that everything is done through a search bar

one of the worst design choices I've ever seen in production software

I use vs code as fancy notepad and nothing more

[opaque sigil]

You can just create the launch.json manually, it'll happily auto complete things for you

Compared to having to use gdb it's really not that bad

[dry charm]

Finally someone who hates VSCode

[clear sedge]

vscode is meh at best

[midnight sigil]

I only use VSCode to view files and do small changes, as a replacement to notepad

[clear sedge]

i have vscodium installed for the rare few times i contribute to something that kdevelop/eclipse/intellij don't work with nicely

even then i usually opt to use nano instead

[midnight sigil]

heavy stuff I just Visual Studio, IDEA or PyCharm depending on the language

[dry charm]

I wish for the days where Fleet is usable

[mighty nebula]

Anyone here, already work with Lua?

[hollow spruce]

im back

@mighty nebula hi

[clear sedge]

i do :D

[hollow spruce]

python and lua same

[mighty nebula]

Really? Is it any good? I saw the Hades 2 files and got curious

[clear sedge]

it's good for when you need a simple scripting language for, say, a gui

or as a sandboxed modding api

or scripted events

i wouldn't recommend making a whole game in any language with dynamic typing personally though

[opaque sigil]

I've given up on that, this day is never coming

[rough bloom]

Lua is commonly used for game logic and similar, works well for that purpose
but it practically always binds to the engine and other components implemented in a fast systems language instead of the whole game being in Lua

[dry charm]

sadly real

[midnight sigil]

wuh

[real sierra]

ragequit

[mighty nebula]

That could be useful, I just want to make some tiny projects that aren’t related to what I do every day

[dry charm]

I meeeean, Hades, Balatro are made in LUA

Roblox is in LUA (the engine)

Factorio for mods (just to mention Factorio)

[clear sedge]

roblox's engine is written in c++

[dry charm]

You are writing the games in LUA

[clear sedge]

it's a sandboxed modding experience taken to the extreme

also, roblox's lua is a fork of lua that adds things like type hinting

[dry charm]

I mean, thats the great thing about lua, is that you can modify the engine for you needs

I think WoW also uses a custom LUA?

[midnight sigil]

BRO STOP DISCONNECTING

[clear sedge]

balatro being made in lua is neither here nor there, it's a relatively simple game

[nocturne olive]

If it's a bot I would assume that means it crashes

[dry charm]

here nor there huh?

[dry charm]

It is quite complex tbh

[midnight sigil]

yea it crashes

[nocturne olive]

Then figure out where it crashes and make it not do that

[midnight sigil]

[clear sedge]

its complexities are ultimately just math equations, you can very well remake balatro in a week if you tried to

[dry charm]

I mean, the joker interractions, the blinds are not that easy

[clear sedge]

lua is not a good language to write anything complex imho, it works great for simpler things, but if you're working on a larger game you're practically asking for debugging hell

it serves its purpose as a scripting language and it does it well

though, it is meant to accompany another language, and only meant to be used for part of the program
if you write a game engine in lua, or core gameplay, you're the odd one out

of course this is all just my opinion and you can do as you wish, but i'll naturally defend this opinion if pushed to

[obsidian mantle]

Is there an OS made in lua

[clear sedge]

god i hope not

[obsidian mantle]

hidden gem

[rough bloom]

does all the ComputerCraft stuff count

[clear sedge]

i mean

it kind of is a vm of sorts

it kinda counts

[rough bloom]

it is

[obsidian mantle]

who needs types anyway
A variable is a variable

[clear sedge]

you're right, i'm casting all my pointers to void * and all my variables to char

[obsidian mantle]

auto everything

[clear sedge]

no

you still have types

you just don't write them manually

you have the compiler figure it out for you

this is not the dynamic typing way

[obsidian mantle]

But lua has to have types hidden too then

[midnight sigil]

my bot won me

I feel depressed

[clear sedge]

difference being you can change a number to a string

well

[midnight sigil]

I'm not a good 1200 elo player

[obsidian mantle]

Whaat

Thats not depressing

[clear sedge]

hold on now. you can technically interpret a number as a string in c/c++

does this mean c/c++ are both dynamically typed

[midnight sigil]

it plays so disgusting

not letting me getting any advantage, yet it plays fucking ass moves but still somehow capturing pieces/getting more controls

if I can do more deduction on the search space it'll be better

it's playing too slow for now

[obsidian mantle]

Yeah mine does it too
Some triple cross attack that i cant notice

[clear sedge]

i'm gonna make my bot do random moves but use the current board as a seed >:D

[midnight sigil]

I'd say my bot is ranked about 1300+ on lichess

[clear sedge]

i'm interested to see how far that'll take it

[obsidian mantle]

Eventually you end up with no good moves somehow because everything is blocked

[midnight sigil]

that's exactly

they sneak into positions that no one would think of(in my elo)

sometimes just doing waiting moves(cycling back and forth)

0 piece development and still domination across the whole board

[obsidian mantle]

i just realized i probably can replace all pointer declarations with "auto"

[midnight sigil]

C++?

[obsidian mantle]

yes

[midnight sigil]

[obsidian mantle]

i was wondering is my code fully C compatible

and then wondered what can i do to use c++ powers

i think auto is one of them

no way im building some lambda shit

[midnight sigil]

[nocturne olive]

Meanwhile me abusing the Kotlin STD

All the tiniest of functions that may have a use to reduce tokens will reduce tokens

[formal quartz]

shiro (should i just ping?) regarding the interface submission, do you just like take my word i have tested everymost methods and i just make a basic random move bot? (since im probs the only one who will use it xD)

[nocturne olive]

Well I sure didn't have to test every single API call extensively

It's better tested in usage anyway

[formal quartz]

guss i yoink some readme and change it, add some comments and see if i can bother shiro tomorrow about adding it

[mighty nebula]

I think the smallest engine I saw was around few kybtes, but it was barely functional

[nocturne olive]

Something like that yeah
Preferavbly make a wiki entry that can be used

I made my Kotlin wiki entry a bit different from the others to clarify things as much as possible I think

[formal quartz]

i-i see, well i will try, thanks for the tip

[real sierra]

i would like you to make the random moves bot if possible

i dont know every language, after all

and yeah if you could make a wiki page for docs that'd be great

you can see one of the other wiki pages for reference, it's just a markdown file

you can make a branch with most of these changes and a pull request and i'll merge it in if it looks good

[olive sable]

im home

i may or may not have left school early

i lost a lot of money today cuz of the steam sale

[stark needle]

hi home

[olive sable]

https://tenor.com/view/get-a-job-you-need-a-job-job-gif-8488212902489187372

[clear sedge]

https://tenor.com/view/pussinboots-puss-in-boots-job-application-job-application-gif-9448200799441894941

[obsidian mantle]

so i gotta reduce get_legal_moves usage

but im using it 1 time per recursion.. or am i blind

oh actually king mobility uses it too

[olive sable]

shoudlnt king mobility not use the full get legal moves?

[obsidian mantle]

it does use it
and i call it twice

hmm

i'll try to remove it to see if it actually matters

looks like it became 2-3 times faster

and it won

maybe just lucky position so it found easy mate

[stark needle]

i got a rejection today

however i got another interview

it's for

yknow those face scanning apps everyone hates that scan ur age?

[olive sable]

ye

[stark needle]

for age verification

yea they have ml engineer position

for that

[glass jetty]

ml is what?

(im not native eu)

[rigid snow]

markup language

machine learning

[stark needle]

tbh

i wouldn't have survived much with java

[glass jetty]

quite sure it is nn only and not ml

[rigid snow]

neural nets are ml

[olive sable]

nn = neural network
ml = machine learning

a nn uses ml

i think

[glass jetty]

idk, there we use ml as old tech primary

like detect car signs and other shape regular stuff
-# that was used before nn learn algo invented

[rigid snow]

machine learning is just a more general term

[stark needle]

sam when do we play monopoly in vrchat

[olive sable]

idk

im free this evening, tomorrow afternoon,a nd the whole weekend

i thought we would wait for iggly to come back tho

[stark needle]

i mean afaik hes gonna be gone for a long time

[olive sable]

[rigid snow]

huh

[olive sable]

i hope he's fine

[rigid snow]

what happened to him

[olive sable]

a break from discord

supposedly

[obsidian mantle]

looks like king mobility is obsolete and it finds mate anyway, every time and fast

[stark needle]

finally touching some grass

like we all should

[rigid snow]

right as i finished

well "finished"

this is mergeable at least

[stark needle]

where's the

vedal is never here

[rigid snow]

it's not in upstream either

[formal quartz]

i'll figure it out https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1140720036064014457/1364202996333805629/neuro_ok_big.gif

[obsidian mantle]

i played as my bot in random match in lichess
it lost
i gotta improve it

i thought its good

it gave up queen for no reason in the end

[rigid timber]

Botez gambit

[worthy jewel]

Hey does anyone have any recommendations for a good API

[rigid timber]

that's like asking "does anyone have any recommendations for a good tool"...

[tender river]

i recommend a screwdriver

very useful

[mighty nebula]

How it's the tech job market in your area?

[nocturne olive]

We need a little more information than that

[worthy jewel]

I just want to make a small language model

As a personal assistant

[nocturne olive]

Oh a language model? From scratch or premade stuff?

[mighty nebula]

Yours LLM, or open source?

[worthy jewel]

Scratch

[nocturne olive]

Hope you have some GPUs

Other than that, PyTorch

[opaque sigil]

TIL cuda-gdb doesn't implement DAP

lazy mfs

[mighty nebula]

Man, hope you’ve got a beefy GPU 😂

[worthy jewel]

I mean would a 4048 work?

[rigid snow]

4048

[worthy jewel]

Yeah

[torpid coral]

Can someone suggest CNN training material (videos, articles, maybe even books)? I'm currently working on my neural network and I'm thinking of trying to integrate this thing when I finish one piece...

[rigid snow]

[nocturne olive]

What is that?

That is not a GPU that I know of

[rough bloom]

not happening, at least not in a way that results in a remotely useful personal assistant

[nocturne olive]

PyTorch CNN examples maybe?

[rough bloom]

small scale single GPU LLM pretraining is pretty much only a learning exercise

[nocturne olive]

True

Unless you magically have a H100 as that GPU then maybe it'll do something usable

And use a lot of gradient accumulation

[rigid snow]

not 1 of them no

[worthy jewel]

It is an Nvidia graphics card

[torpid coral]

I haven't used it yet... I'm writing everything from scratch in c++ and it's very important for me to understand the theory

[nocturne olive]

Which one? Link the techpowerup entry

[torpid coral]

It might be worth considering, though

[rigid snow]

i don't think it's necessary to go that low level to understand the theory

torch isn't that high level of an abstraction is it

[mighty nebula]

I'd suggest just taking an open-source model and fine-tuning it to your needs

training even a good 8B model is expensive for most people

[worthy jewel]

https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-rtx-4080-super.c4182

[nocturne olive]

Oh 4080

No that will not get you anything usable

It will run

Just not become anything of use

[olive sable]

16gb of vram

[rough bloom]

it does abstract away a fair bit I think, mostly because of autograd
micrograd might be useful as a reference if you want to know more details that PyTorch doesn't expose

[nocturne olive]

SMOL

[rough bloom]

not C++ but very very tiny

[torpid coral]

Well... I set myself the goal of making everything from scratch (yes, I'm probably a little crazy), so, again, it's important for me to understand the theory in order to implement it later. Although maybe in the future I will try to confuse PyTorch.

[rigid snow]

refer to shuni i am ml noob

[ionic frigate]

How much a 4090 can run (open models) nowadays?

[nocturne olive]

24-30B models should run fine on it

Same for 3090

[ionic frigate]

Pretty decent

[rough bloom]

I am also ml stupid but I know some things sometimes

[mighty nebula]

Check the locallama on reddit they have a bunch of perfomance tests on 4090

[nocturne olive]

Performance will be fairly good on basically any model that fits in VRAM, these things have great VRAM

[torpid coral]

Of course i'm not perfect either, but I'm trying to strive to understand what's going on... Although sometimes I go a little crazy

[ionic frigate]

It's pretty fast then?

[nocturne olive]

Anything that fits in VRAM

Performance between a 3090 and 4090 should also be very similar in inference

[mighty nebula]

WAY faster than you can read it being generated

[nocturne olive]

If you want a GPU for inference, 3090 should be more worth your money than a 4090

[ionic frigate]

Thanks farewell guys

[cosmic sphinx]

@sick owl YOOOO our AI slop generator got an update

[nocturne olive]

Eww AI slop

[mighty nebula]

A lot of people will get scam in the future with this tech

[cosmic sphinx]

100%

but that doesnt mean it'll ever be gatekept

[rigid snow]

not nanobanana lmao

it's good but it's hard to make it do believable stuff

it either looks photoshopped or fucks faces up big time

in between very rare

sora 2 has much more scam potential

and it's a video model

so in theory should be worse

but it's not

[opaque sigil]

have you seen sora 2 ripping things 1:1, it's like they're not even trying to hide it

[trim valve]

i love trying to figure out what a random ic is on a pcb

it totally isn't driving me insane

:3

[rigid snow]

yeah it does like to produce stuff very very similar to training data unprompted, like videogames influencers rooms etc.

[rigid snow]

spy ic with a mems mic concealed under the package uploading your every shuffle and squeak to government servers

[trim valve]

;3

[sick owl]

Ayy nice

Oh yeah patched this from the other day btw

Firmware had the remote management box checked as the default

Baffling

[stark needle]

for junior level impossible

[trim valve]

kicad my beloved

[unkempt citrus]

kicad

[cosmic sphinx]

chibi pixel neuro (using the full model pic as a reference)
AR 2:3, temp 1, top p 0.95

is it cooking or is it cooked

[sick owl]

Not too shabby

Still can't do even pixel sizes but we take the dub nonetheless

[rigid snow]

would've been cooking if it actually did pixel art and not whatever the bastardized ai gen version of pixel art is called

[sage crag]

garbage

its called garbage

[olive sable]

im on windows now to play vr monopoly

i had forgotten how slow and ram intensive it is here in 4 square land

one day ill put windows on the sata ssd and ill move linux onto the big ssd

or ill just move the windows ssd to the m.2 bad slot and put a new ssd in here

[lilac lantern]

nn = neurotic neurons

[hoary lion]

spledid morning chat

[sick owl]

You know its crazy, every time I think I've got my network on lockdown I'll stumble on a new security hole somewhere

This time it was DNS leaks to my ISP

[twin rose]

indeed this tech is meant to du the UV unfolding not the concept of what comes next

i can make the textures myself once i have a drawing tablet

[verbal igloo]

I just erased my programing project by accident rip good thing I had a backup

[nocturne olive]

If that's trying to be pixel art it's very bad at it

[true hemlock]

imma snatch the 10950x engineering sample and daily drive it fr

[opaque sigil]

If they really are making the CCDs denser I might have to cop a zen 6 chip too, though I guess it's still a while until then

[honest scaffold]

its pretty bad ngl

[sage crag]

[nocturne olive]

Yeah AI slop bad

[idle iron]

im building my own music player in python because i dont trust main stream players any ideas of what i should add or change ?

i was thinking making the play list on the side smaller but i kinda like how it as is idk

[jagged turtle]

loop + shuffle where

[idle iron]

right

this is why i come here for feedback on projects people remind of things

[nocturne olive]

Rewrite it in Kotlin compose

Speed++

[idle iron]

i was going to redo it in rust after i figure out everything with this proof of concept

[nocturne olive]

Silly

Note that Rust GUI is nowhere near as fun as Compose

[idle iron]

well i dont know kotlin

[nocturne olive]

Kotlin is easy

I would say easier than Python

[idle iron]

is that not used for android dev

[nocturne olive]

It's also for desktop JVM

[dry charm]

It is also used for android, but it is expanding to other platforms in a rapid speed

[idle iron]

ah yeah im not touching java its clunky and bloated

[nocturne olive]

Yeah Java bad, Kotlin good

Kotlin is like a modern replacement for Java

It's just way better

Truly peak language

[idle iron]

eh im still going with rust for the final product

[nocturne olive]

Well have fun doing either webview weirdness or native manual GPU drawing

[idle iron]

thats why i want to do it in rust its fun

[nocturne olive]

I'll stick to my Compose stuff, it's so much more fun to use

GUI in anything else has been a massive pain

[idle iron]

i mean if i really wanted to make it a pain i could do c

[nocturne olive]

Rust is probably not far from C with libraries

[idle iron]

you know why they call it c its because you cry at the end of the project

[nocturne olive]

No because it's a successor to B

[idle iron]

even better i make the final version in assembly

[nocturne olive]

Anyway GUI is a huge pain with anything other than Kotlin compose it seems
Especially dynamic GUI

[idle iron]

well if i ever need to make a phone app i will take a peak at kotlin

tho thats not a bad idea to make a mobile version for my phone

[nocturne olive]

I use Kotlin for everything

[tender river]

dont talk about languages you have never used

[nocturne olive]

Well I have used Rust a bit

And I know some C at least

[tender river]

"probably"

[nocturne olive]

True I have not researched too deep but from what I know from trying to find Rust GUI stuff Rust GUI is still immature

[idle iron]

i like rust because crates + cargo is just amazing

also rust over is amazing too

[nocturne olive]

True the Rust package management system is a huge win over C/C++

[tender river]

i dont like rust but its the best language for most of my use cases

[nocturne olive]

RustRover you mean as in the JetBrains IDE

[idle iron]

wait there was a r there?

[unkempt citrus]

yes

[idle iron]

how did i never notice

[unkempt citrus]

its a bit of a stretch of a name

comared to liek Clion

[idle iron]

i guess im blind wow

[nocturne olive]

Yes

[idle iron]

wow ok well i have no defence im just blind

well anyway its a awesome ide

[nocturne olive]

JetBrains also makes the best Kotlin IDE, IntelliJ IDEA

[unkempt citrus]

I'd hope so

they invented Kotlin

also their IDEs are paid so higher standards there too

and mostly single language

[idle iron]

what i dont like about the ides they make is the price

[nocturne olive]

Free?

[unkempt citrus]

As far as subscription models go, theirs is pretty good

some are some aren't

[idle iron]

im in collage so i get it free but still

[nocturne olive]

All of the ones I've used are all free ones

IntelliJ IDEA, PyCharm, RustRover, WebStorm

[unkempt citrus]

I thought RustRover was paid now

[nocturne olive]

Too broke for paid software

[unkempt citrus]

Free for non-commerical right

[idle iron]

is it not?

[nocturne olive]

NeuroSynth really not making back any of the costs

[idle iron]

see when i wanted it , it was a paid for thing

[unkempt citrus]

ah yes ikeaa

this one does not instill trust

[idle iron]

lol more like crash strike

has anyone ever wondered why we call it a programming language or is it just me

[tender river]

it has a grammar its a language

[jagged turtle]

languages have syntax and semantics, therefore must be lang

[idle iron]

why not just call it a language

[tender river]

because its for programming

its unlike a spoken language

it follows stricter rules than natural languages

[idle iron]

right but why specify we dont say spanish language we say spanish

[rigid snow]

do we say python language

[idle iron]

i guess not

idk i guess im just silly with my odd thoughts

[lapis wraith]

What a way to wake up

[jagged turtle]

does claude not realise it's trying to run more shells

[idle iron]

claud is quite the odd llm from what i seen

[jagged turtle]

claude is supposed to be good at coding

part of coding is knowing how to navigate terminals

[idle iron]

no system is perfect

[nocturne olive]

Wha?

[jagged turtle]

what the fuck is it on now

[nocturne olive]

LLM moment

Do not give LLMs access to a terminal

[idle iron]

you should if you want to have fun

[nocturne olive]

No you're gonna have the opposite of fun

[unkempt citrus]

You should give gemini access to the terminal

[nocturne olive]

You're gonna have a bad time

[idle iron]

just give the ais sudo

[jagged turtle]

you're talking to the guy who implemented terminal access in neuropilot

[nocturne olive]

Oh

Anyway I would not rely on an LLM for programming

It's not good

[jagged turtle]

yeah I know

it's only when I'm trying to debug something

[idle iron]

they are good for filling in gaps but llms are not devs

[jagged turtle]

but often times it gets convoluted to back-and-forthing so I just set it to agent mode

vscode doesn't let you set it to auto-run anyways

unlike cursor

so I am always forced to read the terminal command lmao

[nocturne olive]

That's crazy

I just don't use LLMs in my code editors ever

Can't bother using my 3090 for that anyway

[jagged turtle]

total amount of shells created after the debugging session

[nocturne olive]

And definitely not paying for anything like that

[jagged turtle]

I happen to have unlimited free access because student privileges

so

sometimes, might as well

[rigid snow]

have you ever done that? i can see you didn’t

[nocturne olive]

No I have not

And I do not plan to

[idle iron]

you should tho

[rigid snow]

it can mess stuff up like <1% of the time but that’s why you have manual confirmation for that

[nocturne olive]

No I'm not wasting my 3090 for something dumb like that

[idle iron]

but funny

[jagged turtle]

superai when

[lapis wraith]

"delete drive comand here"

[nocturne olive]

Nah NeuroSynthProject better

[jagged turtle]

of course...

[nocturne olive]

NeuroSynthProject makes vocal synthesizers, way more fun than LLMs

And also way easier and cheaper

I would not be able to afford making LLMs

[jagged turtle]

i was gonna say something but sure fair enough ig

[nocturne olive]

Unless NeuroSynthProject suddenly starts making huge profits I'm too poor for LLMs

[balmy nacelle]

does anyone write development blogs for their projects?

or jus me

[rigid snow]

i’ve been wanting to do that since forever but can’t bring myself to

[unkempt citrus]

Writing is cringe

and that includes documentation and comments

[lapis wraith]

Wait. Coding is also writing. Coding is also cringe?
Me writing this message is also cringe?

[unkempt citrus]

not if I STT my code

[lapis wraith]

[obtuse marten]

Fellas, is it cringe to write?

[unkempt citrus]

[maiden geyser]

because you use it for progerming

[balmy nacelle]

im bad at formatting so i jus ask cursor to write a draft for me and i edit it lol

[rigid snow]

writing is fun even though i’m not good at it

so no i’m not going to prompt cursor

[nocturne olive]

I just looked at USB flash drive prices and now I wonder if I should get one and make a portable Linux install
It's 30 euros though, half of my monthly income

[lapis wraith]

Jesust. But do you really need half a TB for a linux install?

[nocturne olive]

Well it would be kinda useful considering my current install uses even more than that on a 4TB drive

[rigid snow]

i have killed two usb drives by installing linux on them, one i forgot to disable swap i think is why, the other uhhh just died

[lapis wraith]

OOOH.

[nocturne olive]

Silly

[balmy nacelle]

i needed it to do the outline thing like the dots

idk how u type them

[nocturne olive]

I just don't use swap on my systems
Probably because I have 64GB of RAM

[rigid snow]

this was like 7 years ago or something like that

i had 8gb so installers set that up automatically

[nocturne olive]

Silly

If I was to creat a portable install it'd probably be Arch or something, or NixOS

[obsidian mantle]

How can swap kill a flash drive

[rigid snow]

why wouldn’t it

[nocturne olive]

Flash storage has a specific write endurance

[rigid snow]

ye

[nocturne olive]

It's the same chips you have in SSDs

[obsidian mantle]

Ooh it has been writing constantly

[rigid snow]

same reason some macbooks ssds have been dying a couple of years ago

they swapped from always having 2 nand chips for 256 and 512 gb versions to having just one on 256 gb, which cut the endurance in half

and macos really really likes to swap

[obsidian mantle]

Just use ram

Why does it like to use that

[maiden geyser]

you don't ampersand, 8gb on mac is like 16 on windows

[obsidian mantle]

I see

[rigid snow]

macOS uses a unified memory management system where virtual memory encompasses both RAM and disk swap files.

• Swap Files: It creates dynamic swap files (e.g., swapfile0, swapfile1) in /private/var/vm/. You don't typically manage their size manually.
• Compression is Key: Before writing a "dirty" page (inactive memory) to disk, the macOS memory compressor tries to compress it. If successful, it stays in RAM (in a compressed state). This drastically reduces the need for slow disk I/O. Swapping to disk is the last resort.

here’s what a slop machine has to say

from my experience it swaps like hell, i have 8gb of ram tho

[obsidian mantle]

I refuse to believe that this is somehow not affecting the performance

[rigid snow]

mac ssd fast

[obsidian mantle]

above 8gb = last resort??????

[rigid snow]

very

[rigid snow]

not significantly

[maiden geyser]

not like there are games on mac you can feel the performance decrease in

[clear sedge]

[tender river]

mfi; u nlbr rwubcmfs by cyifhae

[rigid snow]

yes chay

[tender river]

[rigid snow]

i agree

[tender river]

[midnight sigil]

https://youtu.be/f9HwA5IR-sg

[tender river]

me colemak

[hollow spruce]

yo

[hollow spruce]

hmmm

i will back soon

[tender river]

me need type

practice

[brittle tiger]

https://unity.com/security/sept-2025-01/remediation

Not sure if it's already been posted, but be careful guys.

[clear sedge]

imagine not building your own game engine

what are you, someone who values their time?

pshhht

weakness

[rigid snow]

you should build all of your games on web tech

electron and 1529 npm deps when you need a native build

ship it in a docker container and bundle in docker runtime for good measure

this will be games in 2019

[tender river]

jyl rmylis aii lrf cyifhae

[clear sedge]

true

[rigid snow]

so true bestie…

icba to actually figure out what you typed

[tender river]

vfrb efjvyaps iajylb

[obsidian mantle]

You should build your own processor for your games too

And os

And programming language

[rigid snow]

nvm

[rigid snow]

no thanks not true actually

[rigid snow]

[maiden geyser]

literally 0x10c

[midnight sigil]

bro did NOT have to search 4760109 nodes for that

[olive sable]

im at a presentation on compute shaders rn

still no gpu allowed on chess api?

[midnight sigil]

you can, but have to do it without utilizing external libraries I think

and the limit of 1k tokens

[obsidian mantle]

I just break the cycle and return when i found mate

[midnight sigil]

same, it only find mate after 4760108 nodes meh

[obsidian mantle]

Oh but actually if my mate is last in the list i get that shit too

[midnight sigil]

I'm doing weighting for sorting moves now

[obsidian mantle]

It will first max deep all other moves and then discover mate

Hmmm

[olive sable]

maybe not gpu then but im allowed to use these no?

#include <vector>
#include <algorithm>
#include <execution>
#include <cmath>
#include <iostream>

my laptop keyboard has ´ and ` for some reason

[midnight sigil]

yes

[olive sable]