programming

[real sierra]

I just have to play thousands of games of chess

[olive sable]

[nocturne olive]

A few thousand games is nothing, at least for my PC when automated

[olive sable]

[obsidian mantle]

does it give weird moves a lot or its always alright

[nocturne olive]

Anyway I have dataset grinding to do, I'll return to Chess bot when I have the motivation and energy to research

[real sierra]

there's more to it but you can read up on it if you want

[real sierra]

I mean it's random moves so how well it performs is entirely random, more samples is generally a better estimate of the position but there's some hiccups with chess in particular

[obsidian mantle]

i wonder which way is most efficient within 1k tokens

[real sierra]

it turns out that a randomly played game of chess almost always ends in a draw before a checkmate is stumbled upon, which yields little information on how good the position could have been given better move selection

[obsidian mantle]

probably NN which was super trained?

[real sierra]

so I use a heuristic to choose moves better than random that lead to non-draws

and I do have a simple tie-breaking evaluation function

[rough bloom]

that's not really sgd I think, that's more like local search
you don't actually compute a gradient for all parameters, it's more like interpolating between the previous steps parameters and your newer, better parameters
works for really really small models though

[obsidian mantle]

wait actually
so NN needs neurons and weights between them at least
and they all will be constants

how many neurons/layers is it approximately? in 1k tokens

is it strong enough

what if its super bad still

[stray dragon]

1020 ternary parameters in my model, untested + untrained + i need to make the bot actually work first

2 layers

[amber fractal]

I'm bored so I'm seeing how much effort it is to remove commas from existance

[obsidian mantle]

2 layers like 1 input 1 output and a bunch of weights between them?
a lot of inputs => 1 output

or 2 between layers (idk how to count layers properly)

[stray dragon]

input vector -> hidden vector -> output vector

[rigid snow]

on that topic, this could've been big but no autovectorization

[amber fractal]

So far it is not going well, but that is to be expected

[stray dragon]

thought the gradient was between vector of old parameters and vector of new parameters tbh, guess i should stare at the wiki page for sgd more

[obsidian mantle]

if you remove commas you will need space for separating at least

its impossible

[real sierra]

C has built in sort and search functions which would have been big if it didn't require you to give the comparator

[opaque sigil]

the gradient is your vector of partial derivatives

[stray dragon]

they're ternary parameters, so i can treat them as digits in base-3

[opaque sigil]

which is then scaled to do the actual step

[amber fractal]

As I've learned, spaces in C are not tokens

[stray dragon]

and then pack them into big numbers, which i extract at runtime

[obsidian mantle]

ye because you dont need spaces at all

your whole code can have 0 spaces

(),{} all of that does the work

actually you do need them to separate macros

and that doesnt count as a token i guess

[real sierra]

i am learning that I should probably replace all functions in my code with macros

[stray dragon]

confused how you'd find that vector of partial derivatives but ok

[obsidian mantle]

i have 2 functions one is evaluation that calls itself and one other function thats just being called 3 times

[stray dragon]

i've been working with the assumption that gradient is not a vector

lol

[opaque sigil]

you get the gradient via backprop usually

[rough bloom]

just the chain rule

[opaque sigil]

or well, autograd realistically

[stray dragon]

noted

stupid implementation needs work to be less stupid

[obsidian mantle]

what if there is a library that dramatically enhances nn learning

but it doesnt need to exist in release version

i guess its allowed since you cant track it to ban it

[stray dragon]

any learning algorithm doesn't need to exist in final release

[opaque sigil]

is there anything stopping you from training in a separate program and then just using those weights

[stray dragon]

the learning algorithms are just there to tune the weights

[obsidian mantle]

right

[stray dragon]

then you only need to include the weights in the bot, along with a way to use them

[obsidian mantle]

but that kind of falls under "no external libs" rule

[real sierra]

?

[stray dragon]

not really?

it's just pre-tuning values

[obsidian mantle]

depends on how you look at it

[real sierra]

using pre-trained weights is entirely fair

[stray dragon]

could do it by hand if i was really dedicated

[obsidian mantle]

it wouldnt make sense otherwise right

[stray dragon]

technically, tuning constants like piece values can also be handled by a neural network trainer

they're just parameters

and tuning them adjusts performance

[real sierra]

from the rules:

The only libraries available will be the standard libraries for your language plus the chess API supplied in this repo. However, your bot must not make any network connections, read or write files, start or end threads or otherwise run code in the background/in parallel, or use built-in arbitrary execution functions (e.g. Python's exec()).

[stray dragon]

why ban training parameters when they don't include any extra libraries in the submission

[obsidian mantle]

you can write files?

oh

im blind

[real sierra]

[obsidian mantle]

didnt see "not"

[olive sable]

updating ubo's across multiple command buffers is such a pain

if (updateCam.exchange(false))
{
    cachedView = view.load();
    updateView = MAX_FRAMES_IN_FLIGHT;
}
if (updateView)
{
    bufferManager.updateView(currentFrame, cachedView);
    updateView--;
}

this code is not too great of a solution but the best i found so far

[real sierra]

regardless, point is that pre-trained Nn weights are legal

how you train them is whatever

[stray dragon]

most of the top bots will be using automatically-adjusted parameters in the model i assume

for the evaluation function stuff and such

does not make sense to ban it

[amber fractal]

I feel like people are going to aim for just using a static model

If you want to train on the fly, that adds to the amount of params you can add initally

[stray dragon]

i mean the arbitrary numbers, like "how much should each piece count for" or "how should you weight this factor in the eval function over others"

[obsidian mantle]

i asked before if its viable to train NN for 55 seconds and play the rest 5 (or maybe even 59-1)

[stray dragon]

highly highly doubt, also stupid

would need a tiny training function and it would be awful probably

[obsidian mantle]

yeah training is hard

[real sierra]

fundamentally it just isn't sensible to ban it, libraries to train parameters just take settings and produce code effectively

[amber fractal]

Ah yes the gambling strategy of NN

[obsidian mantle]

[stark needle]

iggly is a numpy array

doxed

[real sierra]

no different from compression algorithms or IDEs

[amber fractal]

[stray dragon]

you must code everything in notepad or else your submission is invalid

wait this is shiro event

[obsidian mantle]

code everything on paper (must provide videoproof too)

[stray dragon]

you must code everything in linux via nano or else your submission is invalid

[opaque sigil]

has to be ed

[olive sable]

eating disorder

[stray dragon]

eating disorder is my favorite text editor

(i've never heard of it)

[real sierra]

I had a great pun but I fear it's in poor taste

[olive sable]

[stray dragon]

i wonder what it could be about

[olive sable]

[real sierra]

something something bytes

[rigid snow]

i think i have an idea what that pun is

oh it's not

[olive sable]

i dont get it

oh well

I can't carry all your data
I've downloaded your sins
It's not fair, it wasn't my idea to let you in

[real sierra]

we have cat jam

what about cat jelly

[stray dragon]

you're gonna turn a poor cat into jelly?

how could you

[real sierra]

[stray dragon]

nooooo

[real sierra]

jellyifying

[stray dragon]

stop jellifying that cat right this instant

[real sierra]

it's too late

[olive sable]

but shiro, you're a catgirl. stop jellyifying your genetic ancestors

[real sierra]

we will all return to jelly one day

[olive sable]

nuh-uh

i will become a soup

[rigid snow]

ok i have a legit question and it's interesting i think. if an api from a standard lib of a language is async only - meaning it has to spawn a thread/utilize one from a threadpool - can we still use that api if we block the main thread until that's done

[olive sable]

[obsidian mantle]

mhm sounds legit

[rigid timber]

what API are we talking about?

[rigid snow]

i was looking at node's zlib when i had this question

[rigid timber]

that's single-threaded tho

JS async is still a single thread

[rigid snow]

yeah no

async versions of native apis use libuv threadpool

in node

so they are on a separate thread

[rough bloom]

you don't need threading for async, executing async functions on the main thread works fine

[rigid timber]

so you could theoretically do some processing while the zlib does its thing?

[rigid snow]

yes

[rigid timber]

interesting

[obsidian mantle]

doesnt async just return and does its thing in separate thread while your main thread can do things

[sage crag]

https://tenor.com/view/mini-miniko-minikomew-gif-17857450978747562560

[sage crag]

nopers

you can think of async as a code scheduler

[rough bloom]

no, async functions can run on the main thread next to everything else (as long as control is given to that function eventually somehow)

[obsidian mantle]

so it blocks? did i mix different things

blocking/unblocking != sync/async?

[rigid timber]

the're kinda related but not the same thing, ye

[obsidian mantle]

[rigid snow]

but i guess sync is always blocking

[rigid timber]

could be callbacks

[rigid snow]

in a single threaded scenario

[rough bloom]

more importantly, non-blocking != threading

[obsidian mantle]

oh yees i faced it when i worked with some interface, and basically it didnt block because we were expecting a response from different device

which will happen somewhere later

[sage crag]

typical program
a
a [a BLOCKS, but we keep waiting for a to finish]
a [a UNBLOCKS, we dont care]
a

b
b
b
b

async program
a
a [a BLOCKS, so we are waiting for it to complete before continuing]
b [a UNBLOCKS, so we continue with a (perhaps)]
a
a
b
b
b

scheduling

[obsidian mantle]

and it can do b while a blocked

but cant do a since it blocked

[sage crag]

yup

yes. in practice, async is nearly never useful for 100% compute programs

in fact it makes them slower

async is good for when you are mixing io and compute

things like web servers, file managers, etc

[opaque sigil]

[hard raptor]

Dang.. i gotta start using ableton like that

Looks way better than just tweaking LFOs and envelopes by ear

[cosmic sphinx]

time to download cubase

[rigid snow]

how are you still not using mpe

it's been a thing

[rare bramble]

science cannot explain how a single twitch tab manages to take up 8gb of ram

oh wait, let me add the labels:

[hard raptor]

I never knew it was a thing before today 😭

[rigid snow]

NAHH

[sage crag]

sentence to death by falling durian

[hard raptor]

🙁

[rigid snow]

i sneezed and now my sweatshirt is covered in blood

cool

[sage crag]

its funny how nose bleed is just a thing human bodies do

[real sierra]

DIY tie dye

[sage crag]

[sage crag]

its not tie dye you need to twist the shirt first

[real sierra]

untied dye

[sage crag]

its die dye

untied die dye

[rigid snow]

shr can you answer this

[sage crag]

[real sierra]

it's a hard question

[sage crag]

if your std has a function that spawns a thread it should be defacto bannneedd

[real sierra]

I don't have a problem with it from a fairness standpoint but it could cause issues if I run concurrent games and don't have spare compute for more threads

[rigid snow]

yeah makes sense

[real sierra]

for simplicity I kinda agree with this

[rigid snow]

agree

d

[real sierra]

yeah

sorry

[sage crag]

it would be a badly designed stdlib to have actually useful functions relegated to a threaded-only context

[rigid snow]

i mean i second that but also it isn't illegal by technicality

[sage crag]

[rigid snow]

since it doesn't explicitly or implicitly or at all spawn a thread

[hard raptor]

This would sound so wierd out of context

[sage crag]

shiro add a hypervisor to the system

if any program spawns a thread it gets terminated

[rigid snow]

it uses a thread the runtime spawned regardless of if you're calling the api

[sage crag]

trial by fire

[rigid snow]

js banned

[sage crag]

js was always a joke entry to begin with

[rigid snow]

it isn't an entry

[sage crag]

the j in js stands for js

[rigid snow]

js stands for js sucks

[sage crag]

if you expand it to infinity you get ssssssssssssssss...... which is the sound you will make after being punctured for using javascript

[rigid snow]

punctured

[hard raptor]

I don't get the hate for js tbh

[sage crag]

mostly theatrical but also i hate it on principle of being a webdev language

[rigid snow]

actually based

[amber fractal]

For the lols I was seeing if the funny "we define everything in a bash script" was legal, unfortunately it isn't due to and only due to the no writing files rule. I'll probably still play around with it anyways just to see what fun stuff I can come up with.

[rigid snow]

(me webdev)

[sage crag]

i get touchy if my feet get too far away from systems level

[hard raptor]

Speaking about bash

[sage crag]

like a dwarf

[hard raptor]

I still have to write that database

[rigid snow]

is the css web server finished already

[sage crag]

from a strict standpoint you cant use functions in bash either since they spawn subshells

which are technically threads

[amber fractal]

Yeah that is true, it is hopeless to even try submitting it

[hard raptor]

No 🙁

[sage crag]

im sure shiro would make an exception for a bot written in bash

[amber fractal]

Regardless might as well have some fun

[sage crag]

or will be in order

[nocturne olive]

What's that, looks like UTAU

[rigid snow]

it would lose hard anyway

[sage crag]

yes bash is even slower than python

[hard raptor]

Bro doesn't know

[rigid snow]

that one DAW out of the major ones you didn't know existed somehow

[nocturne olive]

How would I know?

[nocturne olive]

Wuh

Why does it look like vocal synth?

[rigid snow]

i wonder why

[nocturne olive]

Pitch curves

[real sierra]

[nocturne olive]

It's so vocal synth

[real sierra]

idk...

[rigid snow]

that is what that is but no vocal

[sage crag]

all you have to do is make sure they dont slip :(){ :|:& };: in there

[hard raptor]

It's this silly little thing

[sage crag]

the :(){ :|:& };: is so cryptic until you actually disassemble it

[hard raptor]

Calling ableton little is wild tho

[nocturne olive]

How weird

[clear sedge]

it's not even that cryptic

*assuming you know bash

[sage crag]

fork_bomb() {
  fork_bomb |
    fork_bomb &
}
fork_bomb

a | b => run a, pipe output to b, do not wait for a to finish before starting b

[clear sedge]

i like to call it a pipebomb because it uses the funny pipe operator

[sage crag]

a & => run a in a subshell, concurrently with the current shell

basically it just clones itself a bunch of times until the system collapses under the weight of its own thread table

[rigid snow]

[sage crag]

ableton has ton in the name

[rigid snow]

checks out

[sage crag]

not ablegram

[rigid snow]

checks out

[rough bloom]

ablepound

[faint sandal]

[hard raptor]

Ablekilo

[faint sandal]

administrator protection mysteriously disappeared again

[sage crag]

MS try not to be nightmare to sysadmin for one day

[faint sandal]

to be fair it is a beta build feature

but i'd like it to not randomly disappear every other update

[sage crag]

nuance and fair arguments are banned

i want to laugh at microsoft

[hard raptor]

Dam, how did i not know bout MPE

I already make gud thing with it

[hard raptor]

I have that too

[amber fractal]

Animation only buttons mhm

[sage crag]

decline optional cookies failed, sorry

[real sierra]

why store cookies when you can just fingerprint someone anyway

[trim valve]

chat do I dual boot to begin the linux pipeline

[real sierra]

I only use linux for coding because everything else is less convenient

and I don't code in my free time enough for dual boot to make sense

[trim valve]

I was originally wanting to completely switch to linux, but I couldn't see a reasonable way to do gpu passthrough without imploding my pc

[real sierra]

but why

I don't understand

[trim valve]

good question

tbh the biggest thing for me is that embedded is painful on windows

[real sierra]

for casual use, windows is (somehow) far more widely supported by games and productivity apps and whatever

[trim valve]

and wsl2 doesn't play nicely

I don't think I have any games in my steam library that aren't supported

[real sierra]

I use a VM for Linux and that's plenty for me

[trim valve]

on the other hand productivity apps will be a pain

[trim valve]

(that I care about)

[sage crag]

i use linux to do everything because productivity was never a concern for me

if i cared about convenience i wouldnt use nixos

[olive sable]

i fixed my internet, again

[trim valve]

tbh I think I've just slowly been getting more drawn into nixos as a concept

[olive sable]

we had some batteries installed today for our solar panels, and those fuckers stole 2 out of the 4 ethernet ports on our router, i was using those

[hard raptor]

The only reason why windows is even on my pc is for vtube studio, gta v and ableton

[sage crag]

everyone likes it as a concept but in practice installing it may take 3 years off your life and remove your motivation to continue

after that its pretty chill though

[hard raptor]

The rest all works flawlessly on linux

[amber fractal]

You don't steal my ethernet port

[sage crag]

look its my entire user config

[trim valve]

[real sierra]

users.users.user

[sage crag]

here's my plasma config

[olive sable]

i would have prefered they used 1 and brought their own splitter, but no. and my parents wont let my move them to a splitter myself, so 2/4 of the ethernet ports are now dedicated to devices that use 0.2mbps, and the other 2 are split over the entire house

[hard raptor]

The frick is that language 🤢

[sage crag]

nix

[hard raptor]

Oh makes sense

[amber fractal]

noted konii's username is user

[hard raptor]

Most dutch design is icky

[sage crag]

its a pure, declarative, functional programming language

[real sierra]

found password for user in leak database, you're done for konii

[sage crag]

ermdeed it is

[hard raptor]

I am from one of the 2 dutch cities who designes nix and nixos.. and i didn't recognize it

I feel like failure

[sage crag]

[real sierra]

awaaaaaaaa

[sage crag]

i have tonnes of garbage in here

[hard raptor]

Hehe

No man

[olive sable]

man

[hard raptor]

Heheh

[amber fractal]

man does take forever to load yeah

[sage crag]

[hard raptor]

Imagine having no man...

[sage crag]

im gay

[hard raptor]

Well unless ur a straight man urself

[real sierra]

lego

[olive sable]

ill refrain from making the 200 jokes you could make with this setup

[hard raptor]

I am also very gay waman

[sage crag]

shiro dont eat the ABS plastic

you cant digest it

[hard raptor]

I too have no man

[sage crag]

you dont need more microplastics in your brain shiro

[iron sierra]

no way

[sage crag]

[clear sedge]

i have no man and i must scream

[iron sierra]

new konii

[olive sable]

?

looks the same to me

[sage crag]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1059569601144442911/1375623285894807563/IMG_6849.gif

[real sierra]

it's not microplastic it's macroplastic

[sage crag]

it become microplastic

[real sierra]

I just eat more plastic

[olive sable]

I hate everything about the current way im forced to do this

[real sierra]

then stay macro

[clear sedge]

#define plastic * (int *) 0 = 0;```

[sage crag]

ABS plastic doesnt join to itself

[amber fractal]

I got nothing better to do, I'm deciding to suffer today

[sage crag]

you will become macroplastic and microplastic

just plastic

[real sierra]

I will make it through willpower

[trim valve]

tbh I've had terrible luck with vms just performing awfully

also usb passthrough pain

[sage crag]

[hard raptor]

I think lego disagrees

[olive sable]

i would like to add that those fuse boxes used to be white, they're just old

[clear sedge]

one mustn't pussy out, one must commit to the linux side of the force

[hard raptor]

Yeh, join the dark side

😈

[sage crag]

lego doesnt join to itself, it Clutches™ with Clutch Power™, which allows it to be taken apart again

[clear sedge]

bsd is also.. acceptable

[sage crag]

[clear sedge]

macos would be acceptable if it weren't apple

[hard raptor]

Of course.. the PS4 thing

[clear sedge]

these are the rules of the posix side

[sage crag]

posix pssh

[amber fractal]

Today is updating the gaming laptop's linux install and seeing is steamvr has unborked itself

[sage crag]

so pretentious

just use the OS you want to use

posix is garbage anyway

[hard raptor]

Fr fr

[hard raptor]

I disagree on this..

[rigid snow]

imagine liking using electronics

[sage crag]

its a universal interface that isnt universal

it serves no purpose

[hard raptor]

So

[sage crag]

[hard raptor]

Everyone is just supposed to do whatever and there can be no standard for environments?

[trim valve]

do any of the linux nerds here know if its possible to change the dgpu on-the-fly so it gets passed through to the vm and switches linux over to my igpu
all the guides seem to exclusively suggest that I need two gpus and that sounds annoying

[rigid snow]

yes it is possible

[sage crag]

when did i ever say that

[clear sedge]

i'm not a linux nerd :D

[sage crag]

if you are going to do posix then follow posix exactly

if you dont then you just splinter posix

if you want to do your own thing dont do posix

[real sierra]

all interfaces should just be game theoretic black boxes where they train the paired adapter upon connection

[rigid snow]

me not linux nerd but i have that set up
maybe i can find you a guide or something
the term is "single gpu passthrough"

[sage crag]

its pitiful that bsd and linux have to use different targets because they have different extensions and behaviours

if posix why two different targets

[hard raptor]

Different standard libs and versions

[rigid snow]

ye this https://github.com/QaidVoid/Complete-Single-GPU-Passthrough the guide i followed @trim valve

[hard raptor]

Linux doesn't claim to be possix, just possix (mostly) compatible

[clear sedge]

there are posix certified linux distros iirc

[sage crag]

[hard raptor]

Alpine iirc

[clear sedge]

i'm talking about k-ux

[hard raptor]

I know it uses the same standard libs as bsd

[clear sedge]

mainly

[sage crag]

linux is posix compliant, distros can be posix certified if they do not fail feature tests

it is posix, it just does it badly

[clear sedge]

k-ux is an unfortunate name to name something

[hard raptor]

It can be worse.. it always can be worse

[sage crag]

posix would be proven to be great if any large number of linux software ran on bsds without life support from the community

[hard raptor]

You do realise ur the only one crying about this.. right?

[sage crag]

who's crying about what

[clear sedge]

developer skill issue, just test your stuff on bsds too

[hard raptor]

Well... what else would you call.. whatever.. you are doing?

[sage crag]

kde works on bsds quite well

[clear sedge]

[sage crag]

laughing at posix for being defunct

more likely to get a windows program to work on both BSD and linux than to get a linux program to work on bsd

[clear sedge]

developer skill issue

[hard raptor]

Seems more like a dev skill issue than anything else

[hard raptor]

Same brain wave

[sage crag]

developer skill issue or just an issue with no one caring about bsd aside from posix enthusiasts

[clear sedge]

https://tenor.com/view/bunny-dancing-funny-happy-meme-gif-26302808

[sage crag]

unfortunate state of affairs

[hard raptor]

Only BSD i care about is OrbisOS

[sage crag]

that's the freebsd fork?

[clear sedge]

i care about bsd, i would count myself as a posix accepter at maximum

[hard raptor]

Cuz that's what runs muh GTA V and watchdogs 2 and watchdogs legion

Mostly the watchdogs games cuz i mostly play gta v on pc now

[clear sedge]

posix is simply the closest thing we have to a unified operating system specification

[trim valve]

hmm

[sage crag]

if only it worked

[trim valve]

now to procrastinate buying a ssd for linux for a week, minimum

[rigid snow]

it does what it was made for

[sage crag]

if every OS strictly adhered to posix, it would be great for consumers and software devs, annoying for tinkerers though

would be a better world for the average computer user if it existed

[hard raptor]

Which is exactly why linux isn't fully and strictly compliant

[rigid snow]

software written against posix works on posix compliant systems
those who need that write software that way

[clear sedge]

posix is better than nothing

[rigid snow]

govt institutions is what i have in mind

[olive sable]

lots of words

[sage crag]

govt institutions using anything other than win xp

[hard raptor]

It might surprise you...

[clear sedge]

let's be realistic, the government is probably still on os/2

[hard raptor]

But germany almost fully uses linux

[sage crag]

right right, they are still using DOS

[hard raptor]

#programming message

[sage crag]

hope they use an LTS kernel

[hard raptor]

Ur just mad you're not right

[sage crag]

not right about what exactly

[hard raptor]

Well.. they are the most performant

[rigid snow]

no they use arch for critical systems

[sage crag]

[clear sedge]

[trim valve]

arch with half-baked pacman auto-updates configured

[real sierra]

just switch to LLMs for everything

no more protocols, all protocols are text conversations between LLMs now

[hard raptor]

Respectfully... frick u

[sage crag]

they are the most resistant to random performance degradation

[clear sedge]

arch with custom kernel patches livepatched into it with months of system uptime

[sage crag]

but the most performant kernel is almost always the latest

[amber fractal]

LLMs have to run on something, so of course we use LLMs

[olive sable]

i have a chocolate milk

[real sierra]

respectfully I was making a joke, and yet this seems to be the direction the industry is moving, explain

[sage crag]

not that kernel performance is a huge requirement for a govt worker trying to use libreoffice

[hard raptor]

The benchmarks really disagree with you on this

[rigid snow]

communications between llms over what protocol

[trim valve]

llm-based operating system when?

[sage crag]

find me the benchmarks

[real sierra]

they just get a camera and a screen each

multi modal

[hard raptor]

Too much effort rn.. run them urself

[real sierra]

they'll figure out the rest

[sage crag]

you are the one who made the claim, burden of proof lies with you

[fading olive]

just ask an LLM which kernels are the fastest

[hard raptor]

Yeh.. i will.. just not rn

Cuz i need to go to bedge actually

[clear sedge]

certain distros actually have custom kernel patches specifically for increased performance in a certain task (e.g. windows gaming on linux)

[hard raptor]

CachyOS

[sage crag]

as far as kernel patches go, you may be thinking of ntsync

[hard raptor]

But i was talking about yhe standard kernels + zen

[sage crag]

technically ntsync is a correctness layer and not a performance patch

[hard raptor]

So linux, linux-lts, linux-hardened and linux-zen

Out of that list, last time i checked, lts is the fastest... somehow

[sage crag]

on your very specific hardware configuration and software setup, it may be, yes

[rigid snow]

[sage crag]

under what set of tasks though, and is its aggregate score actually better or are your benchmarks narrow

[clear sedge]

https://tenor.com/view/hatsune-miku-disgusted-yikes-huh-what-gif-17313939

[sage crag]

typical LLM poisoned with MS advertising

this was what the openai x bing deal was all about

[rigid snow]

i wonder why it said that

[real sierra]

somewhere in the world, two people are debating an issue by taking turns asking chatgpt for points to support their opinion and neither is any the wiser

[sage crag]

typical llm poisoned with user advertising

[faint sandal]

[sage crag]

this was what the openai alignment deal was all about

[hard raptor]

Well idk.. there was this guy that made a blog post with pretty detailed stuff and i ran the same benchmarks about 2 months ago and got roughly the same results

I don't know the specifics out of the top of my head

[clear sedge]

and possibly asking chatgpt to summarise its own generated text

[sage crag]

cool because i actually have a set of benchmarks right here

[olive sable]

[real sierra]

it's so sad to see, some people literally relegating themselves to a chatgpt endpoint

[sage crag]

the results seem to suggest that LTS kernels typically perform well on power efficiency and that latest kernels perform better on throughput and latency

[real sierra]

they should just not be given internet anymore I think

[sage crag]

there are of course, outliers in all datasets

[real sierra]

they're only producing existing AI generated content and consuming nothing because they give it all to chatgpt

[clear sedge]

once you get addicted to llms
it's time to get off the computer and touch grass

[hard raptor]

Well

So i wasn't entirely wrong

[sage crag]

however given the relative performance of the 6.6 kernel this seems more like a regression between 6.16 and 6.17

[rigid snow]

go tell nn that

[clear sedge]

no

hell no

i don't wanna go in there

please don't make me

[real sierra]

NN isn't so bad

[olive sable]

or is it?

[real sierra]

they're very cyclical

gotta find the right timezone

[hard raptor]

*sigh* i'll do it

[clear sedge]

https://tenor.com/view/vsause-michael-michael-vsause-vsause-michael-gif-25125732

[sage crag]

not entirely wrong is better than utterly wrong i suppose, feel free to look at the benchmarks phoronix posted yourself and draw your own conclusions of course

additionally this is just one set of benchmarks, even if they are thorough

[clear sedge]

ew i saw the word british in #neurotic-neurons

never going there again

[sage crag]

done on one set of hardware, the results will be wildly different on another set

[real sierra]

you just put it here tho

[olive sable]

british british british british british british british british british british british british british british british british british british british british british british british british

[real sierra]

you've become the problem you protest against

what say you

[clear sedge]

i say

[sage crag]

oh no british people my imaginary enemy

[clear sedge]

it's like the game

once you lose it

[hard raptor]

Done

[clear sedge]

you have to announce it

[sage crag]

how will i cope

[olive sable]

but you're... british

[sage crag]

am i? how did you know?

get out of my walls

[clear sedge]

general was calling me british earlier :(

[olive sable]

i asked my brain, and he had it saved somewhere in the temp folder

[clear sedge]

idk what i did to deserve that

[rigid snow]

fuck you mean “am i”

[sage crag]

the horror, oh what a day

[sage crag]

im learning things every day

[trim valve]

you clearly are not british

[olive sable]

yes

[trim valve]

there are very few people I dislike more than other british people

[olive sable]

checks out

[hard raptor]

You're british

[clear sedge]

YOU'RE A BRIT??

[olive sable]

last time i looked out my window i was still in belgium

[clear sedge]

no

[trim valve]

unless I define them as slightly not british

[hard raptor]

Yes

[clear sedge]

:(

i cry now

:(((

[rigid snow]

no~

[hard raptor]

What does belgium smell like?

[amber fractal]

Last time I checked I don't think I'm british (insert sam making the joke here)

[trim valve]

unfortunately

[unkempt citrus]

thats like 20% of twitter

[olive sable]

i havent cleaned my room in like 4 days, so it smells like trash

[sage crag]

hatred of british people on the internet is such a popular trend for young children in this internet era

[rigid snow]

@grok can you tell me why this metric is wrong

[hard raptor]

Whattaboutthefrench

[olive sable]

the hate for the french is implicit

[hard raptor]

Ew r*st

[sage crag]

as much as popular internet discourse tends to disagree i think france is doing better than most places

[rigid snow]

[olive sable]

rust? rest? rist?

[hard raptor]

Fr fr, fax no printer, not capping, deadass, type shi

[amber fractal]

My country does deserve the hate, I mean we hate our own country

[hard raptor]

Or.. what about b*lgium

[olive sable]

any decent country has people that hate their country

[olive sable]

fuck you

only i am allowed to hate belgium here

[hard raptor]

I'd rather not, thank you

[sage crag]

hating france was also co-opted by other countries, the love-hate relationship that britain and france share is precious you know

[clear sedge]

i hate my own country too :D

[rigid snow]

uhh i don’t think that’s a good metric of decency sam

[olive sable]

[hard raptor]

Me three

[clear sedge]

it is hell here

[amber fractal]

There is the world, and then there is america

[clear sedge]

my only escape is c++

[sage crag]

sam not say: hated => good country
he say: good country => hated

[hard raptor]

Only escape is :q!

[clear sedge]

i prefer ^X

[sage crag]

a => b, therefore, b must => a

[clear sedge]

that's right, i'm a nano user

[hard raptor]

I prefer CTRL-Q

That's right

[olive sable]

how do i even respond to that? you ruined the fake argument.

[hard raptor]

I'm a micro user

[clear sedge]

installing micro rn

[trim valve]

i should learn how ed works

[clear sedge]

holy fuck it looks clean

[olive sable]

so anyways

[clear sedge]

it's beautiful

[hard raptor]

Termux + micro

[sage crag]

[clear sedge]

i might become a micro user

[sage crag]

ive also done this but you would have to pay me to do it again

[rigid snow]

i never did good at reading comprehension in school sorry i am very embarrassed and am crying my eyes out i am very disappointed in myself oh my god what the fuck am i typing this is cringe as shit uhh i don’t care about being cringe i probably should stop typing ok bye

[sage crag]

please tell me this isnt voluntary

[olive sable]

on the phone???

[hard raptor]

What?

[sage crag]

this reads like a phone call

[rigid snow]

i dislike using punctuation

[sage crag]

i also use micro when i do my terminal edits

[olive sable]

i dislike people that dont use punctuation

[rigid snow]

sam hates me

[olive sable]

no

[hard raptor]

Well i usually run it in samsung dex when i am outside

[rigid snow]

yes

[sage crag]

to be honest it has a lot of inadequacies, but it's definitely my go-to

[clear sedge]

__builtin_malloc

[trim valve]

sam what about capitalization

[clear sedge]

why

[olive sable]

i dislike a certain aspect of you

[clear sedge]

why must you do this to me

[sage crag]

code golfing

[clear sedge]

oh

[sage crag]

thats a whole virtual machine in there

[olive sable]

capitalization is too bothersome. if you can see where the last sentence ended, you dont need a bigger letter to see where the next one begins

[sage crag]

the numbers in that uint64_t array are the program binary

[clear sedge]

16 whole registers

[sage crag]

ldr 2 $1
cp $1 $2
ldr 10 $3
ldr 1 $4
sub $4 $3
loop:
  mul $1 $2
  sub $4 $3
  bra $3 :loop 0

becomes
{ 0x0A00020103010200, 0x0903040804010003, 0x0008810E06820C81, 0x000000000000FFFE }

[hard raptor]

But, please elaborate what you meant by this

[sage crag]

you never need more than 2 registers, once you have 2 you have a stack machine

16 registers is the same number as x86, typical vms may have up to 256 registers but i limited the number to 16 so i can squeeze the register operand into 4 bits

[trim valve]

WHAT IF I ENTIRELY USE BIG LETTERS INSTEAD, THEN I DON'T HAVE TO BOTHER AND I GET BIG LETTERS AT THE START

[olive sable]

bad

kssss

[trim valve]

:c

[hard raptor]

Belgians are bad

[sage crag]

termux is sheerly painful

[rigid snow]

why shout my ear hurtie

[hard raptor]

Ehh, it's alright

[trim valve]

smh

[sage crag]

its fine if you have an external keyboard at least

[trim valve]

turn down your volume

[olive sable]

hayleigh what did i ever do to you?

[rigid snow]

turn up your volume

[olive sable]

im not the best person but i try to be better

[sage crag]

oh ye that line is part of the decompressor

[sage crag]

this program is 26 bytes, but if i duplicate

ldr 10 $3
ldr 1 $4
sub $4 $3
``` into it 20 more times it only becomes 29 bytes

i love windowing decompressors

just uh, 255 is off limits due to token count restrictions

[hard raptor]

Well i usually use this UDock/LapDock X 15.6 pro

That i am also now using as a monitor for my pc

[rigid snow]

if you love windowing you should get Microsoft Windows! How much do YOU think this advanced operating environment is worth– WAIT just one minute before you answer! WATCH as Windows innovates lotus 1-2-3 with Miami Vice! Now we can take THIS FERRARI...And paste it RIGHT INTO WINDOWS WRITE! NOW how much do you think Microsoft Windows is worth?? DON'T — ANSWER. WAIT- until you see WINDOWS WRITE, AND WINDOWS PAINT, and then LLIISTEN TO WHAT ELSE YOU GET AT NO EXTRA CHARGE! THE MS-DOS EXECUTIVE, AN APPOINTMENT CALENDAR, A CARD FILE, A NOTEPAD, A CLOCK, A CONTROL PANEL, A TERMINAL PRINCIPLE, RAM DRIVER, AANND– CAN YOU BELIEVE IT!!! REVERSI!!! THAT'S RIGHT! ALL THESE FEATURES IN REVERSI all for just- hoooww much did you guess? FIIIVE hundred? A THOUUUSAND? EVEN MORE???!!! NO, IT'S JUST $99, THAT'S RIGHT!!! IT'S $99, IT'S AN INCREDIBLE VALUE BUT IT'S TRUE!! It's WINDOWS from MICROSOFT, ORDER TODAY! P.O. BOX 286-DOS! Except in Nebraska! ....

[hard raptor]

Whatteessay

[trim valve]

where do i mail the $99

[rigid snow]

p.o. box 286-dos

[trim valve]

to?

or just mail cash

[rigid snow]

idk

[hard raptor]

(These things aren't cheap either)

[olive sable]

bruh

530 bucks for a portable dispaly with a roku stick built in

[hard raptor]

Oh i never use the wireless part

[hard raptor]

Tha fwick is a roku stick

[amber fractal]

Man I could get this in pieces cheaper than this product.

[sage crag]

i was really tempted to ignore this to make it more potent

[olive sable]

i dont see why you woudlnt jsut get a laptop at that price point

[sage crag]

[olive sable]

you can get one with an i7 for 530 bucks

[hard raptor]

Cuz a laptop don't do the samsung dex thing

[olive sable]

or ryzen 7 idc

[rigid snow]

i don’t see a reason to not ignore it

[olive sable]

skill issue, lenovo does have an app for that

[sage crag]

its your A grade for affort which i had to remark upon

[rigid snow]

what effort

it’s copy pasted

[sage crag]

oh sorry i meant E grade for effort

minor typo

[hard raptor]

Not a skill issue? There is another one which is about 200 euros

This has been a very well thought out purchase

[olive sable]

then why even get the 530 one?

[hard raptor]

Cuz my paypal don't work

Cuz my account was suspended for inactivity and i can't get it back

[olive sable]

you cant use gpay or something?

[rigid snow]

it’s this https://youtu.be/sforhbLiwLA

[hard raptor]

And the 200 euro one is from a brand that only accepts paypal

[olive sable]

bruh

[hard raptor]

The 200 euro one doesn't have the touchscreen tho

And i can flip the screen all the way back

Turning it into a huge tablet

Which is nice for drawing

[rigid snow]

why would you need to draw in 2025 when you have ai??!!!!?!?!?!

[hard raptor]

Cuz ai can go fuck itself

[olive sable]

Ive never actually seen someone daily drive dex

[hard raptor]

I hate every thing AI to my core

[rigid snow]

[olive sable]

So what does that amount to? A €900 phone and a €500 touchscreen display with keyboard?

[hard raptor]

I paid 1300 for the phone

[olive sable]

[amber fractal]

Not even I paid that much

[rigid snow]

what the hell yeah that’s an expensive ass phone

[olive sable]

I have a €230 with a €60 magnetic keyboard and it amounts to basicly the same thing

[hard raptor]

But let's be real... people would spend more than those 2 together on a gaming setup with about equal the processing power.. and it isn't even portable

[rigid snow]

and i’m an apple user

[olive sable]

"People" sure there are some, but i sure as hell wont

[amber fractal]

No, you'd get a more powerful setup and you could remote if you wanted to

[versed lava]

Wahhh programming hw

[hard raptor]

Only difference is.. i am also building the "gaming" working setup

[stray dragon]

"with about equal the processing power" what kind of alien technology 2475 ass phone did you get that outperforms a $1300 gaming rig

[hard raptor]

More powerful... how?

[olive sable]

Gpu

Brrrr

[stray dragon]

$1300 gets you a pretty good desktop setup

[rigid snow]

i mean i sent a graph earlier today….

[stray dragon]

let me check

[rigid snow]

this one

[olive sable]

My 3090 pc was 1.2K. Should outperform a phone

[clear sedge]

i got my desktop setup (monitor included) for 600

:3

[versed lava]

(Sorry for off topic) fellow antimatter enjoyer

[stray dragon]

oh single-thread only

[rigid snow]

yeah

[amber fractal]

I'm letting chat handle this one

[hard raptor]

I mean.. people spend 3K on a GPU they never gonna fully utilize, so maybe the potential of the gaming setup is higher.. it's just never gonna he used much further than my phone can handle

[amber fractal]

I finished the game on mobile

[stray dragon]

what kind of argument

[olive sable]

Antimatter?

[versed lava]

Get a life( the game currency)

[amber fractal]

Nah I'd support the developers

Ad bonus my beloved

[versed lava]

So true

[hard raptor]

Just an s24 ultra.. getting around 1000 FPS on minecraft java at 4k

[olive sable]

So?

[stray dragon]

"people spend $3000 on gpu they don't need so my phone is better"

ok

uh huh

[hard raptor]

I never said my phone is better

[stray dragon]

yep

[hard raptor]

Have you even read the whole convo?

[rigid snow]

she’s trying to justify her phone costing her 1300

which is a fucking lot

[hard raptor]

Not even that at this point

[stray dragon]

yeah i got that much

[versed lava]

Wait that sounds so rude i was thinking of a different game in antimatter its called a reality not a life oops

Sorry @amber fractal

[hard raptor]

The real justification is: i just needed something reliable and capable that would last me 5+ years instead of having to buy a new one each 4 months

[sage crag]

[stray dragon]

i've been using the same old $250 phone for 4 years at this point

it works

[rigid snow]

truth nuke: iphone

[stray dragon]

why spend $1300

"it'll last" a phone half the price would last

a phone 1/3 the price would last too

[hard raptor]

But iphone isn't as capable without the 20+ euro a month developer subscription

[stray dragon]

maybe even 1/4 the price

[amber fractal]

All good

[rigid snow]

how much shit do you want to sideload
also it’s $99/yr

[stark needle]

Dont Samsung and google have 7 years now

[stray dragon]

subscription ew

[hard raptor]

Here in EU it's 20+ a month

[rigid snow]

it’s a subscription to have your apps published to the app store

[stray dragon]

ah

i see

[hard raptor]

Pretty much everything

[stray dragon]

i have not read

[clear sedge]

i wonder if i should even implement proper pbr in my game engine

i'm most likely not going to use it

but the gltf spec..

[olive sable]

I see your point, if you already have the phone its not a big deal to use it as a makeshift kaptop. But the performance of a laptop or desktop is just not comparable.
Its 1.5-2.5 times faster than my tablet. But my tablet was €240... and already has a touchscreen. €60 extra for the keyboard attachment if thats a requirement.
I dont see a dex hub as a good deal, especialy for 530

Holy essay

[hard raptor]

But what can it handle? Like.. what do you use your phone for? Cuz i need to do pretty much everything my pc can do on my phone as well

[stray dragon]

you're gonna be carrying around a screen and keyboard anyways, why not get a laptop

[hard raptor]

I mean.. was the 530 expensive.. yeah.. should i have looked further.. probably... does it matter that much to me?.. not really

[stray dragon]

or a tablet

[rigid snow]

like what? i am actually confused. you have 10 app ids without the developer account. why would you need to sideload more than 10 apps

[stray dragon]

different products, different roles

[hard raptor]

Cuz if i have to throw down another 1.7k for a framework laptop it would've been more expensive

[stray dragon]

framework isn't good deals

unless you plan to upgrade

[hard raptor]

You actually can't sideload any without the subscription here....

[stray dragon]

they're not the only laptop out there

[olive sable]

All in all its actually not too bad of a decision. Samsung dex works pretty well all thing considered. The cpu is faster than a chromebook and gets the job done

[rigid snow]

[olive sable]

And blender has an android port soon

[hard raptor]

What? You think i wanna be stuck to winaids or have a hard time distrohopping?

[stray dragon]

not that difficult to just

install linux

[clear sedge]

[stray dragon]

what's the issue

[rigid snow]

doesn’t make any sense how do they expect indie devs to exist then

[hard raptor]

I don't trust the other brands anymore.. or atleast not all their products.. and i have no fucking indication which ones are good and which ones are bad for my usecases.. i know framework is good for what i need

[sage crag]

doesnt it already exist

im sure ive used it already

[stray dragon]

"it NEEDS to come with linux or else i'm not buying it" one of the big points of having linux is that you can put it on just about anything

[olive sable]

I think thats unnoficial

[stray dragon]

just look at specs and read

immune to good deals

[hard raptor]

You seem to be missing the fucking point

[sage crag]

unofficial official not matter

[stray dragon]

you have an indication

your point is wrong

[hard raptor]

The fuckin motherboards

The fucking build quamity

[olive sable]

there is an unofficial port by a community member that allows you to run Blender on Android devices, and the official Blender Foundation is actively developing a tablet-friendly version for both Android and iPads.

[hard raptor]

The difficulties to repair shit

I know framework is reliable in those aspects

[stray dragon]

nah this is a level of fixation on shit that doesn't matter which i am not equipped to understand

i leave convo

[amber fractal]

Krita does already have an android version, I hope it works well

[sage crag]

t

[hard raptor]

Well.. it does matter to me...

[olive sable]

Never tried it

[rigid snow]

i googled you’re just wrong
AND i just remembered you have alternative app stores in EU so even more options than anywhere else
and the subscription is roughly $99/yr everywhere may vary a tiny bit to round the numbers

[stray dragon]

hi konii

[sage crag]

no, bye

[stray dragon]

oh

[amber fractal]

(Yes it is exactly what your thinking)

[sage crag]

[stray dragon]

bye konii

[hard raptor]

They changed it?

Whut?

Anyways

[sage crag]

caramel

[hard raptor]

There are more aspects to iphone which make it uncomfy for me to use

[rigid snow]

i think you’re confused or something the 10 app ids are everywhere

[hard raptor]

Spotify theme mod apk no worksies

That problem

[rigid snow]

theme??

[hard raptor]

Yuh

My spotify look like this

[rigid snow]

[olive sable]

Imagine using spotify

Couldnt be me

[opaque sigil]

funky

[hard raptor]

Well.. it's not like youtube music is any more comfortable for me

Everything i have is precisely to my needs

That's basically the whole point

[rigid snow]

have you tried the mixing feature

i don’t feel like spending money on premium just for that

[hard raptor]

And as long as i don't have financial troubles.. i don't see what's so wrong about it

[olive sable]

I dont have ads, it plays while my phone is off, and stuff i like on youtube gets synced. I dont need anything else.
Im not paying for spotify premium

[hard raptor]

We have other patches for that...

[rigid snow]

for the mixing feature?

[hard raptor]

But of course i cannot talk about those patches here

[hard raptor]

No, to don't have ads

[rigid snow]

from what i’ve heard those barely work on android recently

[hard raptor]

I do wanna mess around with mixing feature for funnies tho

[rigid snow]

and on ios there’s a particular one which works wonders

[hard raptor]

True, but they work again

[rigid snow]

but no features of course it’s just the skip and ad thing

[amber fractal]

I've just used regular youtube for my music, though I do use a client

[hard raptor]

I had to use YouTube music lately cuz of the issues

It was absolute hell

[olive sable]

Yt music has the lyrics which is handy sometimes.
I can badly sing along when i suddendly feel too confidant

[rigid snow]

soundcloud

[opaque sigil]

[rigid snow]

sound quality ❌ fun ✅

[hard raptor]

The autogenerated playlists on yt music have the same 3 songs 10 times, if i search "hard techno playlist" or "bigroom techno playlist" i get playlists with those 2 hour long mixes.. instead of a normal playlist where i can skip the songs i don't like

[olive sable]

[hard raptor]

That's why i prefer Spotify

Cuz it just doesn't have those annoying issues

[rigid snow]

apple music is also good though there is one downside

||you have to actually pay||

[hard raptor]

Yk what

Let's just bring back limewire

[olive sable]

Cant relate, yt music works fine for me

[olive sable]

Bruh

[rigid snow]

napster

[olive sable]

Just use yt music with the premium features enabled like i some people do

[amber fractal]

Chat, what command do I use to see what GPU is being used. nvtop is saying no gpus exist to monitor

[hard raptor]

also.. why does it keep recommending hardstyle 🤮

[olive sable]

Algorithm

[hard raptor]

Also this random shit

[rigid snow]

https://tenor.com/view/cfrb-crazy-fuckin-robot-body-neurosama-neuro-sama-neuro-gif-3872725850945038031

[hard raptor]

Though this one ironically is pretty gud

[amber fractal]

Alright, just the nvidia card despite me asking kindly for a version with all vendors compiled in

[hard raptor]

Okay, but that one is still acceptable

[rigid snow]

huh

hardstyle = zyzz
we in neurocord = evilZyzz

that it

[olive sable]

Thats the beauty of user generated content

[rigid snow]

i know what you are referring to

i’m just saying i didn’t mean that

[hard raptor]

I usually listen to this kind of music more

I should sleep

[olive sable]

probably ye

i ownt tho

not gonna lie, i dont play league but the songs go pretty hard

[sage crag]

use metrolist

[rigid snow]

what does that have to do with anything

[olive sable]

huh

ive just been using microG thingy to get around the premium lock

didnt know metrolist existed

[rigid snow]

this the mixing feature does metrolist have that

[olive sable]

what

i didnt know that existed

[rigid snow]

it's super new

like maybe 2 weeks old

probably not even

[sage crag]

maebe

[olive sable]

bro

not the death note

[rigid snow]

sam

[sage crag]

[olive sable]

i get that im not the best person alive but i dont think im that deserving of death

[rigid snow]

i might get like a month just to play around i want to so bad

though i've heard they started to take premium away if they suspect you don't live in the country you bought the sub in

which is a problem for me since i uhhh yeah

[olive sable]

using real software with high quality audio ❌
using fucking spotify on a phone ✅

[rigid snow]

i do have serato and a controller

that's not the point i just wanna see what regular ass people get

also it's automatic you don't have to beatmatch and twist knobs and shit

[olive sable]

but i like twisting knobs

and pressign buttons and stuff

[rigid snow]

you probably don't know this since you're not in the scene and stuff

pioneer dj rebranded to alphatheta

which is somehow worse than twitter -> x

[olive sable]

[rigid snow]

"yeah let's kill all 30 years of brand loyalty and reputation we built"

[olive sable]

30 years? i thought pioneer was already a mian brand in the 80's

[rigid snow]

pioneer dj is kind of an off-shoot

they separate

[olive sable]

oh

pioneer is 87 years old, pioneer dj is indeed 30

[rigid snow]

i was going off how old the first cdj is approximately

[sage crag]

[olive sable]

31 technically

[rigid snow]

[olive sable]

https://tenor.com/view/hornet-silksong-dance-hornet-dance-hornet-silksong-gif-3654151901745923854

i still need to play hollowknight. i own the game now but i haven't yet

ill play in the weekend maybe

[sage crag]

phrr if

[olive sable]

if

[sage crag]

]

[olive sable]

what does that mean?

you're one of the most cryptic people i know

you cant nope me, its the truth

every single person i know irl jsut says what they mean

[amber fractal]

bwaa

[olive sable]

i know that cuz i have autism i dont understand a lot of social cues, but this is not just me is it?

this is actually just illegible no?

[amber fractal]

Konii is a kryptid

[olive sable]

i need to make a konii translator bot

[sage crag]

[amber fractal]

with what definitions