programming

[cosmic sphinx]

would you explain the process then

[rigid snow]

vocal synths are very iterative in how one works with them

[cosmic sphinx]

beyond the part of og voice extraction

[nocturne olive]

1. MIDI transcription, this can be automated but needs manual touchups
2. Lyrics need to be inserted, manually or automatically depending on the tooling and quality level target
3. You need to tune, manual pitch curve, breathiness, energy, all that fun stuff
4. ONLY then can you render it out to be mixed

Just look at SynthV

[rigid snow]

yeah look at anything not necessarily synthv even, vocaloid or utau too but imagine that it's ml and not algorithmic

the workflow is the same basically

ml is just generally higher quality output

[nocturne olive]

So yeah making these covers is not at all trivial

It's not at all a plug and play process

It may have been in the V1 voice days, but not with V3

[cosmic sphinx]

never said it was, atleast in regards of preprocessing and postprocessing of the audio

[rigid snow]

v1 was straight up rvc i think

[cosmic sphinx]

but been kinda misinformed on the synth process

[nocturne olive]

Yeah most likely just a basic RVC from the speaking voice

[nocturne olive]

You actually barely process on the original song audio when making a synth cover

[rigid snow]

ye most you can do is extract the vocal track to then pitch transcribe it automatically

[nocturne olive]

Yeah, and I often do that to have a base

But I still do a lot of changes manually to make it sound more natural

[opaque sigil]

i hate hash tables, can we get rid of them

[rigid snow]

i propose hash chairs

[amber fractal]

I will hash you into dust

[cosmic sphinx]

ok it would be embarrassing for me not to know MIDI as a future sound engineer, but on the other hand, im only 3 weeks into my course
very useful for the future

ty for the info

[rigid snow]

vocal synths not really used in the industry

and by not really i mean not at all

useless info

[cosmic sphinx]

na, I never looked into MIDI itself b4

[rigid snow]

the basic midi spec is super easy, it itself is a message bus, you basically have 3 types of messages

1. note down (note 0-127, velocity 0-127)
2. note up (note 0-127)
3. what is known as midi cc - some parameter changed (parameter id 0-127, value 0-127)

[final tinsel]

how bout hash countertops?

[rigid snow]

the last one is for pedals/knobs

in the modern age there is also MPE which allows changing certain parameters of notes as they're being played

stands for midi polyphonic expression

[clear sedge]

i love writing 150 lines of pure types

[real sierra]

my bot is so cooked

yeah lets truncate the hash to 1/4 of its length and assume no collisions

[opaque sigil]

How many bits do you use

[real sierra]

i think i actually use 24 bits, not 16 bits

[opaque sigil]

So 6 bit hashes?

[real sierra]

nono

i use 24

the full hash is 64

[opaque sigil]

Oh

Should be fine unless you have a really bad hash function and/or a lot of items

How bad can a collision here and there be

[olive sable]

Oops

I misclicked the gif

[real sierra]

well it's one per board right

[olive sable]

My bad

[real sierra]

the plan for the bot rewrite is that all game tree nodes will be in the hash table

if a hash collision creates a loop, it's gg

though I do think loops are kinds unavoidable so I need to find a fix anyway

[opaque sigil]

[amber fractal]

Me writing in the void about the NN project:

This project has never been human in the slightest, and it is taking everything I have to properly handle it.
It's like I'm trying to write in a new language but the language doesn't use any senses that humans have.
SNN is at least based in neurons
The thing at least has a refernce
I don't have any reference for this, as what this is trying to do is entirely from nothing at all.

I'm suffering hard, send help for my sanity

[lilac lantern]

[olive sable]

https://tenor.com/view/internet-fast-error-rage-mad-gif-10889198

[rigid snow]

[real sierra]

bleh

i feel so low energy today

ive felt on and off sick too

is sad because sick, or sick because sad

[olive sable]

I spent roughly 5 hours on putting a wifi extender at the furthest point in my house, but the xbox one, the reason i did this, doesnt want to connect to it

[tender river]

feedback loop

[olive sable]

Something Something NAT type

Idk

[rigid snow]

xbox

[glad path]

yell at until it works

trust

tell it "if you dont work something very bad will happen" and "if you don't work i'll be very sad"

works after a few (3-5) tries for me (on nearly everything somehow)

[tender river]

nat is not any different if that station actually works as an extender

but you should check channels/frequencies

consoles can be picky about those

[sage crag]

i have idea

[real sierra]

[sage crag]

read this and give me suggestion

[real sierra]

lil busy

currently filling out very long form

[sage crag]

[real sierra]

very very long form

[sage crag]

[olive sable]

Ill fix it tomorrow

Maybe

[real sierra]

programming chat i have a question

what is wrong with my handwriting

i dont understand

i swear it's so close to being neat

[olive sable]

Surely

[real sierra]

but something is just slightly wrong and it makes it look like madman scribbles

its actually so close to greatness

but theres just something off about it

[olive sable]

Main issue is you're a human i guess

[final tinsel]

i just got a typewriter cuz my handwriting sucks

[real sierra]

its so close to good but isnt

[olive sable]

Aight goodnight

[tender river]

you could try analyzing it to see which letter/letter pairs you often "smoothen"

[sage crag]

nerdleaf

not do data science just practice handwriting

[olive sable]

Im doing "wds bridge" whatever that means

[tender river]

too much effort

just look dont do

thats how you get better

[sage crag]

[tender river]

[lilac lantern]

maybe you're gripping the pen too hard or uncomfortably? it looks like your writing gets worse the later in the line you are

could be your hand is getting tired and losing fine control

[real sierra]

i only care because i feel like with minimal tweaks it would look quite neat

seems like low hanging fruit

[lilac lantern]

you can also try angling your paper and making sure you move your arm as you go down a line instead of flexing your wrist to change position

[red bronze]

quackky birthday shiro

[real sierra]

🦆

??

[red bronze]

quackbye

[stray dragon]

it's horrible and awful and it... saves 11 tokens over the cheating method i used before

[tender river]

[stray dragon]

going into this i thought i didn't have standards for how bad my code could be

this has pushed them

[sage crag]

question

why are you using strings instead of 64 bit integers

[tender river]

token

[sage crag]

doesnt save

[tender river]

does

[sage crag]

no

[tender river]

ye

[stray dragon]

no commas

1 comma = 1 token

[sage crag]

[stray dragon]

it actually does save tokens

saves 22 tokens over the "store it all as an array of ulongs" method in fact

[sage crag]

oh "" not tokens?

[stray dragon]

"" 1 token

"stringstringstring" 1 token

[tender river]

the string literal is a token

[sage crag]

ye

[stray dragon]

"ntubcrpy.bikbmpyhrcbibk.pubmihcrdbybmh.ctpubuikhcjoebmhcrxbidpb.rg,bikxr.pgd3dbicfgdydxpgcr.kjghbdxeofgcxigdcukjbtgdi.motdixdgct.px micfd,.kxectkmw.fciyphtxmtcxi,kx tp.g,kx.pig,xkfgcxpfxk.pgcxkjrgyp.dbgcbpixhcntk.,btohcabkxtgdeb;stnhqdbcrgxobcx"

1 token

but not allowed

[sage crag]

why you using \

is it not token

[stray dragon]

multiline

[tender river]

no

[sage crag]

it should be token

[stray dragon]

it's not counted as a token

[sage crag]

readable code banned

[tender river]

[stray dragon]

that would be horrible

[tender river]

according to the standard

[stray dragon]

my standards are low enough i don't want to push them lower

[sage crag]

char can have width > 8 bits so technically > 64 bits of info

[stray dragon]

yeah, so i separate each 8-byte string

[tender river]

konii can have > 8 bytes of info

ban

[sage crag]

no i mean char isnt 8 bit type

c standard not talk about

[tender river]

it is on shiro's pc

[stray dragon]

oh i see

[tender river]

konii ban nerd

[sage crag]

🤫

[tender river]

[sage crag]

ye not problem

[stray dragon]

clearly

[sage crag]

in real code this never happen anyway since

uint8_t *s = (uint8_t *)(uint64_t[]){ 0xFE0700000E010200, 0x00000000000000FF }, *pc = __builtin_malloc(1024), *o = pc;
    while(*s != 255) *s & 0x80 ? ({ uint8_t l = (*s++ & 0x7F) + 1, d = *s++; while(l--) *o++ = o[-d]; }) : (*o++ = *s++);

here's the decompression i use on my bytecode at the moment

[tender river]

erf

forgot

c standard draft where

https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n3550.pdf

here

i forgot c has unicode now

char8_t *s = u8"⭐";

[opaque sigil]

chat do you think preprocessing insertions for almost a second when i can not do that and insert in 40ms is worth it

surely it will scale

[sage crag]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1067638175478071307/1406337271241904158/ezgif-3f552200e37817.avif

[tender river]

maintain 16 versions of the insertion function

and a classifier neural network that picks the optimal function depending on operational conditions

[opaque sigil]

they turned the cuckoo hashing problem into a directed graph problem where you minimise the number of incoming edges for each bucket
kinda cool but also clearly not good enough

[sage crag]

nya

[opaque sigil]

Preprocessing time 124805.601000 ms
Insertion time: 89.608000 ms
this is for inserting 2^22 elements

[tender river]

even the c standard has forward references

[rigid snow]

msvc

[sage crag]

b

[worldly acorn]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-bomb-explosion-boom-gif-18347534567261621962

[opaque sigil]

for some context, the shitty version i wrote takes 5-10ms to insert that many without preprocessing

[sage crag]

typedef struct char_literal char_literal;

[tender river]

[dusty plume]

CHINOI MOMONE REFRENCE

[tender river]

then it converts preprocessing tokens to regular tokens

[dusty plume]

grrr

[sage crag]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1067638175478071307/1406337271241904158/ezgif-3f552200e37817.avif

[tender river]

interestingly concatenated string literals are separate preprocessing tokens but a single regular token

"a" "b" "c" <- 1 token or 3 tokens depending on translation phase

[real sierra]

answer is usually "windows"

[stray dragon]

just got stunlocked for 22 minutes by this

i understand now

i think

[tender river]

its just varint

[sage crag]

thats a different piece of garbage in my code

this is a window based decompression

#define leb128_r ({uint64_t o = 0, s = -7, b; do o |= ((b = pc_r) & 0x7F) << (s += 7); while(b & 0x80); o;})

my varint read is much simpler

[stray dragon]

these are so evil

[tender river]

[stray dragon]

i know nothing about compression/decompression techniques and it seems i will need to study

[sage crag]

yes and at the moment i only use the leb128_r in just two places

[stray dragon]

lmao

[tender river]

ye i see

[sage crag]

/* ldr */ op(reg_pc = leb128_r)
/* bra */ op(if (!reg_pc) leb128_r; pc -= leb128_r)

[sage crag]

i wrote it because it lets me unroll loops for freee

[opaque sigil]

i always forget how stupidly expensive modulo is

i guess good thing i don't have any in my filter

[rigid snow]

dedotated wam

[real sierra]

it expensive?

i guess it division but still surprise

[opaque sigil]

yup

division not good

i mean this is relative to the alternative which is a single AND (assuming it's a power of 2)

[final tinsel]

THE CRASH REPORTER BROKE

[ivory plinth]

WHAT

[silent lintel]

How do I actually run the chess bots to test them, either with Cutechess or something else? Like if I just wanted to have two copies of the random-moves example bot face off, how would I do that?

[final tinsel]

if you are on windows, its suffering that id just have shiro and this channel walk u thru, and if ur on linux its like 5 easy steps that are in a readme somewhere (sry i forgor exactly where)

[silent lintel]

I have resorted to WSL, so I think I could do the linux thing if I got my hands on that readme

[sage crag]

depends on what you are modulo-ing

[final tinsel]

i havent tried it with wsl yet so idk if theres any troubles with running cutechess in wsl (at least with the gui, cmdline prob works no problem)

[sage crag]

on integers its as cheap as division, which is to say basically the same as multiplication on modern cpus

for floats though

[tender river]

fmod

[silent lintel]

I have been sticking to command line. Should I just scour the cutechess github for help? I looked around there a little and wasn't having a lot of luck becoming less confused

[real sierra]

modulo floats

why are you doing that

dont

[real sierra]

open cutechess, go to Tools>Settings, Engines tab, click plus at bottom

set the command to something that will start your bot

for languages that need an interpreter, be sure to quote your command, e.g.:
"/usr/bin/python /home/admin/mybot.py"

you may have to set the working directory to where your bot is as well, it kinda varies by system so it can take some playing with

[opaque sigil]

zsh: no such file or directory: /usr/bin/python

[tender river]

[sage crag]

direct path

[tender river]

do you know

//x in posix is not necessarily equivalent to /x

[sage crag]

under what circumstance

[tender river]

A pathname consisting of a single slash shall resolve to the root directory of the process. A null pathname shall not be successfully resolved. A pathname that begins with two successive slashes may be interpreted in an implementation-defined manner, although more than two leading slashes shall be treated as a single slash.

[sage crag]

so its for a URI thing or similar

[tender river]

looks like its no longer in posix

[sage crag]

yay implementation-defined is no more

[tender river]

no misinfo

A pathname consisting of a single <slash> shall resolve to the root directory of the process. A null pathname shall not be successfully resolved. If a pathname begins with two successive <slash> characters, the first component following the leading <slash> characters may be interpreted in an implementation-defined manner, although more than two leading <slash> characters shall be treated as a single <slash> character.

they just reworded it

it was used for network paths on some unixes

if you do cd // it doesnt cd you to /

[real sierra]

i knew this

[tender river]

what context do you even learn it in

[real sierra]

typos

[tender river]

i thought they had nerd unix classes in your uni where they teach you useless details nobody will ever need in their life

[real sierra]

yeah they had a class on bash

[tender river]

bash is useful

[real sierra]

i agree

but learning it in a classroom setting?

HOLY boring

[tender river]

[real sierra]

imagine you had to learn bash through lectures and tables of commands

and assignments where you had to implement the dumbest shell scripts

agony

[tender river]

write uci chess bot shell script

alpha beta pruning

[real sierra]

if only

doable actually

bash stdlib powerful

[tender river]

allow coreutils too

[silent lintel]

I'm feeling dumb. I've installed cutechess following the instructions from their wiki, but I can't figure out how to run the dang program. Should it not just be "cutechess" as a command?

[real sierra]

if you downloaded the appimage, it should just be the name of the file yeah

make sure you put ./ before it and are in the same directory

if you get an error about it not being executable, you need to do chmod +x cutechess_file_name_here

(last two items are for linux use)

[silent lintel]

Ok, that's what I needed thanks. This competition is forcing me to Linux whether I want to or not

[real sierra]

windows support soon™

[silent lintel]

Nah man, I just finally got a single stupid all-random-moves game generated and I have never been more excited about anything in my life

[tender river]

[midnight sigil]

it's usable tho

[real sierra]

if you have threads.h

good thing everyone supports it!

[opaque sigil]

[stray dragon]

adding in just the eval function and its associated macros takes 304 tokens

think i do have to cut stuff out...

[glad path]

just add pacman into ur code and tell him to eat the tokens

he'll never know they aren't pellets

[opaque sigil]

# Run 1
Inserting 67108864 entries
Calling kernel
Preprocessing time 90.380000 ms
Insertion time: 62.473000 ms
Completed insertion with 2 iterations

# Run 2
Inserting 268435456 entries
Calling kernel
Preprocessing time 16.016000 ms
Insertion time: 0.002000 ms
Completed insertion with 1 iterations

who needs predictable performance anyway i guess

[stray dragon]

genius

[silent lintel]

How do I use the token counter?

[opaque sigil]

java -jar /path/to/jar /path/to/code

[stray dragon]

here's how to find the jar file for toknt

[opaque sigil]

there's a release on the github

[stray dragon]

oh shit i just saw

[silent lintel]

Oh I missed that too. Thanks!

[tender river]

also first 3 steps can be compressed into one

you can just click on the checkmark that you see on the first screenshot

[stray dragon]

interesting, thank you

[wide flicker]

Ha haaaaa never mind my dumbass managed to brick the damn drive so we're reinstalling the os now lets effin go

[tender river]

[wide flicker]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-hitting-head-on-desk-cat-insane-cat-gif-24842238

[tender river]

see also: https://github.com/Jovian-Experiments/Jovian-NixOS

[wide flicker]

I am brand spanking new to Linux so im wary to touch nixos yet

[tender river]

i'd recommend arch before nixos

[opaque sigil]

[tender river]

bazzite is good if you want something hands off

but it's a very intrusive distro

[wide flicker]

I was recommended Bazzite as something friendly to stream and game on

[opaque sigil]

Doesn't it also practically force you to rely on flatpaks

[tender river]

[wide flicker]

Not necessarily no, though it is recommended to use flatpaks where possible

[tender river]

it has rpm-ostree install but it's not guaranteed to preserve packages after os updates and is in general soft-deprecated

[opaque sigil]

[tender river]

the way you're supposed to customize bazzite is making your own OCI image

which is

not good

[opaque sigil]

[wide flicker]

You said you'd recommend Arch?

[tender river]

i'd recommend it for learning linux

it's pretty far from "just works" but you can learn a lot in the process of setting everything up

i wouldn't recommend it to the average person, i usually install ublue-based distros for non-tech-savvy people

[wide flicker]

[tender river]

feel free to ping for any questions

[wide flicker]

I will, thank you :') I won't lie I definitely feel a tad in over my head ahaha, but frankly id rather be in over my head on Linux than deal with windows 11 :'D

[tender river]

a lot to take in

[opaque sigil]

When in doubt check the arch wiki

It'll be your best friend

[tender river]

no matter which distro you use

[opaque sigil]

[river copper]

Anyone know a good way to get in touch with vedal if I have an idea for him?

[tender river]

https://vedal.ai

[jagged turtle]

why'd you ask in the #programming channel btw

[midnight sigil]

random fen generator goes wild

[maiden geyser]

smaller chance of getting forum slided?

[midnight sigil]

@nocturne olive btw I have not been able to reproduce your bug in C(I have run 200+ game positions)

[glad path]

lol

[nocturne olive]

Not with similar control flow?
Could it have something to do with how binding external languages works somehow, I don't know
Either way whatever it is I don't think it's meant to happen and I can't tell where it could be coming from

[nocturne olive]

So we have encountered a roadblock with NeuroSynth as it turns out

• RVC-based synthetic data CANNOT achieve anything higher than about G5, for some reason, likely RVC being old lossy garbage
• So we need real proper data, where are we gonna get it
• Wispers doesn't have the time to label any data
• We can't afford to pay someone to do it for us

Our options?

• find some magical way to get more life out of synthetic data
• get someone to volunteer to label data
• get someone to donate enough that we can afford to pay for it it to be labelled

[maiden geyser]

https://preview.redd.it/using-linux-v0-o2xxzjal8orf1.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=2f778c978afb2e9f8a3f11a1b355d5c658c913a4

[clear sedge]

linux was a bowl this whole time

[jagged turtle]

"help me | less"
"help, im going through a midlife crisis"

cinema

[clear sedge]

https://tenor.com/view/absolute-cinema-raccoon-absolute-cinema-gif-17862327649353748812

[obsidian mantle]

if i do this:

submoves1 = chess_get_legal_moves(inboard, &len_submoves);
submoves2 = chess_get_legal_moves(inboard, &len_submoves);

do i get 2 copies of arrays of moves?

2 pointers to 2 different copies

or does it merge it into one and both pointers are equal and the second one has 2 sets of same list of moves

i am a bit confused about when i have to free() my array of moves

(i have a problem with counting change of amount of available legal moves rn)

[clear sedge]

yis

[obsidian mantle]

maloc allocates new every time? good

[clear sedge]

they're two different pointers

yis

[obsidian mantle]

[clear sedge]

it is your responsibility to free() tho

[obsidian mantle]

what if i dont take the result at all

[sage crag]

not always

[obsidian mantle]

like this

[clear sedge]

don't do that

[obsidian mantle]

oh so its stays allocated

[clear sedge]

at least call free() on it instantly

[sage crag]

memory leak

[clear sedge]

yes

[obsidian mantle]

understandable

[obsidian mantle]

after i make a move it treats moved piece as an enemy if i skip turn

what i do is:
get_legal_moves
make_move
skip_turn
get_legal_moves
undo_skip (i think this "undo" is useless?)

here knight and rook try to take friendly pawn that just moved

do i do something wrong or its some kind of bug?

i'll investigate more

even weirder variant when i do e2-e3, it says that the king can go e1-e3. and most important (for me) it doesnt see new available queen and bishop moves

[obsidian mantle]

same if opponent makes an actual move and not skips turn

board isnt updating properly after make_move()?

how the hell my recursion works then

i'll make print board function and print it

[midnight sigil]

imagine dealing with C

[shadow sinew]

Yeah, I've also noticed that it seems to be missing possible white queen moves for some reason.

[obsidian mantle]

i almost printed it

the board looks fine

then it must be the get_legal_moves() itself

i'll try to play with freeing it

freeing it didnt help so it should be some internal variables in it?

also board isnt just pieces maybe i need to get more info from board

the only thing i comprehend is "whiteToMove"

others should be useless

[cobalt sigil]

whar

[obsidian mantle]

what if i free the board too

oh but how will i build it if uci wont give it to me again

xdx copy its size

into a buffer

then restore

but why do i do this if i'll have to make a move too, i dont need just old board i need a board with new move

gramin hard

[shadow sinew]

Would probably be useful to have a way to set up a Board from a FEN string. Then you could do all kinds of testing with that.

[midnight sigil]

yes you can

[shadow sinew]

Ah right.

[midnight sigil]

just need to expose void set_board_from_fen(Board* board, const char* fen); in your chessapi.h

[obsidian mantle]

hmm right

[midnight sigil]

it's pretty useful for testing purposes

[shadow sinew]

I think I might try setting up a test script that compares found moves against what some other chess api like python-chess finds..

[stray dragon]

i have your ip

[cobalt sigil]

wow thx

[obsidian mantle]

static doesnt let me

[cobalt sigil]

but I already know my ip

[obsidian mantle]

oh im stupid i had to add static too

[cobalt sigil]

https://tenor.com/view/meme-gif-5378830288478346570

[shadow sinew]

This should work:

diff --git a/src/c/chessapi.c b/src/c/chessapi.c
index c31675a..6a15bf7 100644
--- a/src/c/chessapi.c
+++ b/src/c/chessapi.c
@@ -1878,6 +1878,11 @@ void chess_done() {
     interface_done();
 }
 
+void chess_set_board_from_fen(Board *board, const char *fen) {
+    if (API == NULL) start_chess_api();
+    set_board_from_fen(board, fen);
+}
+
 BitBoard chess_get_bitboard(Board *board, PlayerColor color, PieceType piece_type) {
     switch(piece_type) {
         case PAWN: return ((color == WHITE) ? board->bb_white_pawn : board->bb_black_pawn);
diff --git a/src/c/chessapi.h b/src/c/chessapi.h
index 2659658..d8cc532 100644
--- a/src/c/chessapi.h
+++ b/src/c/chessapi.h
@@ -264,6 +264,7 @@ This method will block until the opponent's turn has passed.
 */
 DLLEXPORT void chess_done();
 
+DLLEXPORT void chess_set_board_from_fen(Board *board, const char *fen);
 
 ///// TIME MANAGEMENT /////

[obsidian mantle]

what else does it want

did i put chess_set_board original in the wrong place

yes i did

[shadow sinew]

Yeah, looks like you put the function using start_chess_api() before it's definition.

[obsidian mantle]

it seems it fixed it

[olive sable]

Morning

[obsidian mantle]

this is a big problem

it means all my recursion is broken rn

inverted timezones shiro is mirmiring 😠

[sage crag]

nurm

nurmmm

[maiden geyser]

morbing

[obsidian mantle]

perfect moment to clean my house while api is broken

[nocturne olive]

I don't know if it's an X11 thing, but any time the framerate changes the mouse speed feels different
Though it could always just be something weird about framerate changes effecting perception

[obsidian mantle]

framerate so high it causes time dilation

[nocturne olive]

*low

[clear sedge]

in the gltf spec, it is technically possible for an image to not define anything that points to what that image actually is
the uri and buffer view are mutually exclusive, but neither the uri nor the buffer view are required
a spec-following image can literally just be {}

may be referenced by a uri or bvi

not must

https://tenor.com/bSFnz.gif

[tender river]

its possible to create a gif with a color palette that defines 0 colors

i used this in an old firefox version to get background transparency

i just made the page bg a gif with no color palette

which made it render nothing in the bg

[clear sedge]

that is beautiful

[tender river]

they patched it later

[clear sedge]

lame

use an enum like other parts of the spec ❌
use mime types for some reason ✅

[tender river]

mime types are good

labels instead of integers are used in any system where extensibility is required

think fp sum types vs oop objects

[clear sedge]

eh fair, afaik only jpeg and png have been supported for nearing a decade now though

part of me wants to add webp support because webps are cool

but the rational part of me is telling me nothing will export a gltf with a webp image so i shouldn't waste my time on it

[tender river]

still useful if you're shipping a game or something

[clear sedge]

i am indeed shipping a game

i'll stick to jpeg and png though, nothing i use exports webp

[tender river]

you can just add a postprocessing step

but if the gltf is not huge it wont really give any benefits

[clear sedge]

yeah it'll generally be a negligible size difference bc i'm only doing low poly low res models anyway

might make it a thing in future if i see it fit, not on the todo list rn

actually allowing for mime types is smart

each property has an extensions field for any user-defined extensions
so i could mark it as an extension if i were to, say, add webp support to gltf

currently not using extensions and extras for anything though, they're generally useless for my purposes

[tender river]

better example, tuples vs records

[clear sedge]

[shadow sinew]

I made a basic test tool that found a bunch of configurations where chess_get_legal_moves() misses some moves.
https://github.com/ginkgo/2025-chess-bot-tournament/tree/tester/test

[tender river]

@real sierra look

[sage crag]

its like some kind of

fuzzer

[tender river]

[sage crag]

who could have suggested such a thing

[tender river]

testing

[sage crag]

testing

[shadow sinew]

Yeah, the python generator script generates random boards by doing random moves and then dumps the FEN & move strings. Then the C++ program loads the test data and checks if the moves match.

[obsidian mantle]

ok so it already fails on calculating potential moves of opponent after its own move.. testing further

so i dont need to test my own move after opponent's move since opponent's move is broken already. can try to figure it out from here
but not if opponent is black

[nocturne olive]

Making an illegal move? What are you testing?

[obsidian mantle]

if i do this:

get_legal_move()
make_move()
get_legal_move() - getting legal moves for opponent

last get_legal_move() gives weird results, like that a2c5 on the picture

[nocturne olive]

Wuh

[obsidian mantle]

this example has only 1 wrong move but i assume it gets worse in more random board

[nocturne olive]

That is very weird

[obsidian mantle]

if you go deeper it gets worse (deeper in recurstion)

[nocturne olive]

Oh woah

That's my exact bug

[obsidian mantle]

but printing board shows nothing wrong! the board looks alright.
AND if you rebuild the board from fen before checking moves, it gives correct moves.

[nocturne olive]

That is the bug I SAW TOO

Pretty much anyway

[obsidian mantle]

and you are not on c

[nocturne olive]

Yeah KT

[obsidian mantle]

the core of api

[nocturne olive]

For me I get moves that do not have pieces corresponding to them so my thing errors

Gets insanely bad already at depth 3 recursion

[obsidian mantle]

i always get correct moves on my current turn though.
so its impossible to make false move

you get fucked up recursion

anyway, trying to find out why its happening

[nocturne olive]

Yeah that's exactly what I obseverd, as soon as recursion happens everything goes completely to garbage

So it's not just a me thing

https://github.com/shiro-nya/2025-chess-bot-tournament/issues/12
Here's my issue about the bug I got

Seems like it's a wider issue then though if it's actually about what moves are output

[real sierra]

whoops

[sage crag]

shimo

fuzzers

are useful

[opaque sigil]

[glad path]

genchat is going insane again ._.

[obsidian mantle]

that a2c5 wasnt added by this

here last call before returning, it stops at h3h4

shiro something is really really bad
moves array gets moves out of nowhere

[silent lintel]

Am I blind, or is there no simple method with the api to get the bot’s own PlayerColor?

[obsidian mantle]

OK THIS IS ALL WRONG
im printing by wrong length.
this array is alright

ok then returning to original variant

[real sierra]

easiest way is just to call is_white_turn after calling get_board

your bot only runs on its turn since done is blocking, so get_board will always return a board on which it is your move

[real sierra]

bred fuzzed it so I assumed they found all the bugs

[trim valve]

limited fuzzing

[obsidian mantle]

ok so with 1 more depth and i get this

black king can attack that black pawn

[real sierra]

perhaps a bit negligent of me

ultimately not breds responsibility

[obsidian mantle]

e8e5

[real sierra]

will download the fuzzer this afternoon and see if I can resolve any outstanding issues

[trim valve]

also there were still bugs they just also happened to be in cute chess and meant I couldn't check more games

(just cute chess failing to save game logs or segfaulting)

[real sierra]

I've been aware that the legal move checker still has bugs but it's been intractable to find them

[obsidian mantle]

shiro help
tldr:

make_move() - make our move
get_moves() - get opponent moves
make_move() - make opponent move
get_moves() - get our new moves

last get_moves gives false results

i need it to check overall mobility

[nocturne olive]

Sounds very similar to what my bug does at its core

[obsidian mantle]

(also for plain recursion)

[rigid snow]

✅

[clear sedge]

https://tenor.com/view/fish-huh-what-look-gif-15891526

[real sierra]

false results, how so?

are there legal moves missing or illegal moves included

[obsidian mantle]

it says in this board king can go e8 e5

[real sierra]

I haven't the slightest idea how

[real sierra]

fascinating

ultra king move

[obsidian mantle]

it only happens when you go 3rd step and deeper into recursion

[real sierra]

e8e6 too

[obsidian mantle]

you first moves and opponents moves after that look fine

you know whats funny

when i print the board it looks fine

[real sierra]

somehow no e8e7

[obsidian mantle]

the worst for me is 0 moves by bishop and queen

[real sierra]

that's definitely a bug

yeah wtf

I swear it's not this broken for me

[glad path]

4d chess with multiverse time travel

[obsidian mantle]

how

the only difference is you are doing in plain c

hmm

do i try it in c

[real sierra]

I'll look into it this afternoon

very strange bugs indeed

[dapper kernel]

Bugs

[obsidian mantle]

it adds it from here

also directional attacks here have this

like its turn 0

oh and i forgot one moment to add into tldr

if i rebuild the board from fen before checking moves - it shows correct moves. including queen and all

let me find screenshots from before...

with rebuild

without rebuild

see last "new moves" line, both pics are same situation

[nocturne olive]

So if it doesn't happen in C but does in other languages could it be a bug exclusive to when it's used as a shared object?

[shadow sinew]

Hmm.. could it be the cached bb_black_moves and bb_white_moves becoming outdated? It seems when you call make_move that won't change those so the next time you'll call get_pseudo_legal_moves() they'll be out of date.

[obsidian mantle]

im going to test if it happens in c rn

printing in c looks scary

[real sierra]

does make move not update the pseudo legal move caches..?

[shadow sinew]

I can't find where it would..

[obsidian mantle]

is that it? fixable?

[real sierra]

easily fixable

it's a two-liner I think

just ensure that when it updates last_board, it assigns the pseudo move cache to it

and then sets its own to NULL

this must've been a new issue introduced with recent changes, I can't imagine it was present before and went unnoticed given how severe it is

[shadow sinew]

Is that cache even that useful? Don't you usually only call get_pseudo_legal_moves() on a given board once?

[real sierra]

it used to be more useful before various flags were added

pseudo legal moves are fetched by more than just get legal moves

things such as validating check, getting pins

[obsidian mantle]

so it should happen in every existing bot who uses recursion

regardless of language

[real sierra]

I just don't know how this bug appeared

i don't believe it was there previously

[obsidian mantle]

my bot was smashing random bot while having this
i guess not very visible since only happens in deep recursion which you dont even care about usually

for me it started when i tried to get amount of gained moves and always got 0

oh and i have an unrelated question
are we allowed to submit more than 1 bot?

obviously submitting 500000000000 random bots hoping one of them randomly wins is not allowed but lets say.. 2?

[real sierra]

sure you can submit a handful

just make them meaningfully different please

I'm not doing your parameter sweep for you

[nocturne olive]

Silly

So I guess I can submit the end result of the MK1 branch and whatever other branches come after

[obsidian mantle]

i was thinking of submitting this euristic bot, and if i have time/feel like this bot is done - make nn bot too (or at least try)

[glad path]

im so tired
i read that and thought you meant actual bugs (like mosquitos or smthn)

[patent walrus]

lol as i was backing up files

[glad path]

windows will always be windows

[clear sedge]

losedows

[tender river]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1276149117717970964.gif?quality=lossless&name=nopy&size=64

[sage crag]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1276149117717970964.gif?quality=lossless&name=nopy&size=64

[patent walrus]

hooooly hell i almost panicked

when it bluescreen'd (or... blackscreen'd?) i hit the reset button to power cycle the system right

when i came back it was booted into mint i have on another drive, that i have to go into the boot menu to pick

made me think my C drive fucking failed for a sec until i restarted and it scanned disks

[glad path]

oh god I can actually imagine that very vividly

[opaque sigil]

Why would you do that

[patent walrus]

it was on that screen for like 10 minutes before i took that pic and 10 mins after, it wasn't doing shit ngl

[opaque sigil]

I see

[hasty snow]

I would have been terrified given the recently reports of windows soft bricking ssds during heavy transfers

[obsidian mantle]

i have win11 too but i just installed it
surely it wont have problems and it wont kill my disks if it is not a patch

for some reason native notepad runs in 30 fps

wtf is this

[amber fractal]

Come on man, the IRL equivalent at least runs in vsync

[rigid timber]

that was only a specific handful of SSDs that used a specific controller, and it wasn't Windows' fault, it was the manufacturer's fault for loading a pre-release firmware on them

[hasty snow]

Yea I had heard it was overblown — still wouldn't have stopped the fear in that situation

[rigid timber]

fair, a relative called me with a bluescreening Windows install around that time and my thoughts also went to the SSD thing

[lapis wraith]

Imagine if they did this intentionaly for "battery life" Even though you are probably using a desktop

[glad path]

macos lets you disable putting disks to sleep

yet another point of superiority over windows

[rigid snow]

this is a success message btw

[glad path]

what

[rigid snow]

is it trying to tell me that activating automatic payments was a mistake

[glad path]

probably

[silent lintel]

Sorry, more chess questions. Anyone know a good way to debug a Python bot? Troubleshooting is tough when my information consists of “it’s not playing what I thought it would”

[obsidian mantle]

printing and checking debug messages in cute chess

[dusky jackal]

Hey Vani would Neuro and Evil be able to make a bot for the competition on stream? That would be fun!

[glad path]

wait that would actually be such a good idea

[glad path]

print statements and assertions

[clear sedge]

printf debugging

[silent lintel]

Hello darkness my old friend

[fair horizon]

Practicing assembly by making it play bad apple

(Tbh I am still very much a beginner when it comes to that so I only modified the existing video playing example that was provided by default and most of the work was just understanding it and then figuring out how to encode a video file to the correct binary format, but was still a fun way to learn more)

[amber fractal]

How many fps

[fair horizon]

Slightly slower than 30 fps in order to match the speed as close as possible

And that was done in a kind of scuffed way, normally the video playing example can only do either 23fps or 35fps so I made it switch between the 2 every frame to get almost 30fps

[amber fractal]

Man that is very scuffed

[fair horizon]

Ikr

There are ways to get 30fps exactly but I'm too lazy to do so lol

[amber fractal]

I was going to make a joke of how fast can it go, but seems like you got enough on your plate

[fair horizon]

I could crank it up all the way and see what happens, I'm certain it can handle 70 fps but if I go higher than that then I don't think I'll be able to see the frames actually play properly

[amber fractal]

-# Context, there was a compatation over how fast one could render a triangle in Vulkan, the fastest was around 70k

[fair horizon]

Oh damn

That is high number for sure

[silent lintel]

Hmm. Now the cutechess engine debug log is stuck in a separate window that I can’t scroll, drag, or interact with in any way (other than close it from the View menu)

[olive sable]

i installed them

allining monitor arms is such a pain tho

[fair horizon]

Update: I tried removing all the stuff that normally halts the code between frames and to my surprise it still ran

The way it looks all sped up is somehow just goofy lol

[trim valve]

desk space pog

[olive sable]

i love desk space

[fair horizon]

Crisp setup, 10/10

[olive sable]

i can put dvd's or blurays into the avr now, cuz before the monitor stand was infront of it

[trim valve]

my desk is mildly cursed because I move out tomorrow

or well more specifically move out to uni from home

[olive sable]

"digital multi...."

[fair horizon]

Even with that ur desk is somehow still less messy than mine, impressive desk management

[trim valve]

that is because the mess is at least partially on the floor

[fair horizon]

Ah

Well, I guess we are still only comparing desks here so I'd say whatever is on the floor doesn't count

[trim valve]

note to self: throw everything off my desk before desk comparisons

[fair horizon]

"Clean ur desk" => Throw all stuff on floor
"Clean ur floor" => Throw all stuff on desk

[olive sable]

for me all the mess in behind my monitors so not really visible in the picture

[amber fractal]

Need to post a new photo, but I'll wait longer as sibling is moving out of the shared room

Maybe then I'll actually have some space

[silent lintel]

Is there a way to view the cutechess debug log besides the debug window in the gui? Cuz said debug window will not un-eff itself for me

[amber fractal]

This is what happens when you have too much stuff for your space

[olive sable]

i was wondering like "huh i dont remember this happening yesterday on the 26th. but it was the 26th of novemeber 2024

[trim valve]

if you tried to pop it out and it's broken go to your cute chess config folder and delete whichever file has a key like "window state"

[amber fractal]

Almost one year anniversary, I'll have to take another shot once renovations are done

[silent lintel]

Where can I find the cutechess config? The only config I see in here is the git config

[trim valve]

are you running cute chess on windows or linux

[silent lintel]

Ubuntu on Windows

[trim valve]

check ~/. config/

iirc there's a cute chess folder in there

[silent lintel]

Awesome, that worked. Thanks!

[real sierra]

pychessapi has been updated to resolve some issues regarding Move.promotion, enum-returning functions that can sometimes return values outside of their enum ranges, and get_color_from_bitboard having an incorrect return type

[rigid snow]

turns out i CAN use c for node bindings though it is not necessarily a good experience. whatever i'm avoiding cpp because i can
and yeah never figured out how to make node-gyp compile with a c std instead of cpp so cmake it is

i think gyp was made for the chromium project so it would kind of make sense for it to be cpp hardcoded

but still very stupid

[amber fractal]

erm

[rigid snow]

wow that's not a lot of servers

having a life in #programming? illegal

[uneven pulsar]

curious servers 👀

[amber fractal]

We love text clipping

Clearly that scale option was not tested

[rigid snow]

i don't have a slightest idea how that is possible

i have limited but still experience with rn

[amber fractal]

The ping to reply option is just @O

[rigid snow]

is it an app setting or just dpi system side

[amber fractal]

App setting

[rigid snow]

oh that would make a bit more sense

bad impl

[amber fractal]

Very real

Speaking of bad impl

[rigid snow]

containers are for larger text but it is smaller and aligned to the top

[olive sable]

what drawing software shoudl i use on linux?

[amber fractal]

I can test that theory rq, let me just dive into android dev settings

[rigid snow]

krita probably

[amber fractal]

seconded

[amber fractal]

Aww I thought the FPS counter would be in there

[rigid snow]

this makes even more sense to me

they calculate the layout themselves

well, the margins

to actually see wtf went wrong you'd want rn devtools but you don't work at discord

maybe there is a way to inject them but i am not aware

[amber fractal]

I know the scale is 75%

Wait

There is beyond 100% as well

Oh no, it goes up to 200%

[olive sable]

beautiful

[rigid snow]

where even is that in settings

can't find it

[amber fractal]

Themes

[rigid snow]

i don't have

[amber fractal]

bwaa

[rigid snow]

[amber fractal]

Second as more info

Emotes don't scale at all

[stark needle]

@viral oasis oh my god is that operator from the hit anime Operator and Operator

[olive sable]

[viral oasis]

Yes!!!!1!!

[olive sable]

bro comes in here to summon operator

[stark needle]

i'm gonna eat you

[viral oasis]

[amber fractal]

Wait, you clipped until Shadow sent a message then you unclippex

what

[olive sable]

classic text based jank

[amber fractal]

Okay let me free myself from 200%

[rigid snow]

i don't even have the setting on ios. i do have developer mode on

[stark needle]

OH MY GOD IT'S SAM ALTMAN

!!!

[olive sable]

there is a reason we're still using truetype eventho it was invented int he 1980's, nobody want to deal with that stuff

[olive sable]

[amber fractal]

Okay last one

now freedom

[rigid snow]

can you introduce me to jony ive pls

[midnight wharf]

Any devs on? Im seriously needing some help here. Can someone give me a lil hand?

[olive sable]

no, jon is busy playing league probably

[rigid snow]

[olive sable]

welcome to #programming , where non of us do programming

[stark needle]

i am NOT a programmer, i am a visionary

[olive sable]

ah yes

[viral oasis]

More like a stinkeryary.

[stark needle]

<insert insertion>

[rigid snow]

[olive sable]

im a director to my orchestra of gemini programmers

[stark needle]

*dictator

[olive sable]

wow wow wow

[viral oasis]

take your meds

[olive sable]

here at sam.inc we use inclusive language

[rigid snow]

since when is dictator an offensive term

[olive sable]

slave? nah thats an instruction coordinator

[stark needle]

i am NOT taking my meds ok bye

[viral oasis]

personally I love using my 3090 as a vram coordinator.

[olive sable]

checks out

[viral oasis]

i am the meds

[violet harness]

We are all programmers in spirit..

[real sierra]

everything good in here?

[stark needle]

im gonna eat you

[real sierra]

im lurking im just invisible

always watching

[rigid snow]

ban everyone

[real sierra]

👁️

[viral oasis]

maybe the real programming was the compiled code we made along the way.

[olive sable]

keep your flirting to dm's please

[stark needle]

yes shiro very normal things are happening

[wide flicker]

Im a vibecoder posing as a programmer

[viral oasis]

i always flirt in dms ;[

[real sierra]

pushing commits to the chess repo like its a full time job

[wide flicker]

this is only a half joke

[viral oasis]

i love very much yes normal yes.

[olive sable]

i know, i was there when shadow sent you some of the most vile shit ive ever heard

"for charity"

[rigid snow]

if that's your definition of full time give me 5 full time jobs pls

[stark needle]

noooo you joined the dark side

[viral oasis]

[wide flicker]

I was never on the light side to begin with

[obsidian mantle]

shiro did you fix get_legal_moves?

or rather make_move

[amber fractal]

I leave for 5 Seconds

[viral oasis]

*10 seconds

[olive sable]

time ot make shadow femboy art

i got krita installed

[stiff mica]

aww, thank you~ ( ◡‿◡ *)

[viral oasis]

i'd pay for that even if im broke

for charity

[stark needle]

i dare you

[real sierra]

WIP

making a batch of changes using the new tester gingko created

[olive sable]

i take commissions you know.
art is kinda now slowly becoming my job

[real sierra]

need to reassess the castle move masks

[amber fractal]

Insert sticker here

[viral oasis]

BuT I cAn JuSt UsE Ai AnD I Am A ReAl "ArTiSt"!!1111

[obsidian mantle]

i'll go sleep soon so was wondering if it will be ready when i wake up
now i know

[rigid snow]

tbf i'm not seeing much people call themselves artists while being what's known as an "ai artist"

[stark needle]

sam make me an art ok thx bye

[viral oasis]

smelly u can make art

[olive sable]

i mean, when i steal a wood texture from google images, and i want to get rid of a dark circle in the wood, sure ill use an ai fill tool to get rid of it. but im not gonna generate the full image

[rigid snow]

requires putting effort in

too hjard

[olive sable]

i bought this drawing talet but i actually dont know the controls so gimme a sec to google them

this pen has a bunch of buttons

[amber fractal]

Photoshop's editing tools are still AI

[rigid snow]

they shoudl be configurable

[viral oasis]

Tbf I dont mind people using tools, I just dislike people who only generate using it and then be a jerk to real artists.

[amber fractal]

I generate warcrimes every few months mhm

[olive sable]

ye i know, as long as its with artist intent im fine with it

[stark needle]

did u even try it yet

[olive sable]

no

or well, kinda

[rigid snow]

they'd be jerks to real artists even without ai existing

because they're just jerks

simple as that

[olive sable]

the drawing works but i dont know what the buttons do

[viral oasis]

True, but their "art" makes them tend to get more jerky sometimes, people be weird.

[amber fractal]

I need a samvanbwaa tysm

[viral oasis]

@stark needle take ur meds

[stark needle]

i think one switches between pen/eraser and the other opens some menu

[stark needle]

no

[olive sable]

i dont have an oc yet so that will take a while. unless i keep using cid kagenou

[amber fractal]

I have $2 I don't have to transfer

[stark needle]

samvanbwaa sounds fire

[viral oasis]

I have something cooking in these departments but not public yet, mostly just been slamming down on getting celeste faster.

[olive sable]

i have like 9 buttons, a wheel, and 2 on the pen. also one ont he top of the pen but i havent figured out if thats a button or something mechanical

[viral oasis]

Lots of my speed optimizations kicked in, now shes stupidly fast.

[stark needle]

give me credit

[viral oasis]

credit for not taking meds

[stark needle]

i literally suggested 90% of them

[viral oasis]

But yeah, we're currently rockin about 100-120+ tks/ps, transcription is instant, and TTS is now also basically instant.

Kinda hit brick walls on the vrchat front.

Latency is bad ;[ cant fix that.

[olive sable]

also the tablet uses my entire 3 screens as the area for the mouse pointer to go to instead of the krita canvas. imma need to fix that too

[stark needle]

i hope the app isnt shit

the app for my huion was so bad

[olive sable]

didnt know there was an app

[stark needle]

the wacom app

[olive sable]

[viral oasis]

@stark needle btw getting all that stuff to work took a small rewrite, so many things to micro-manage but it seems to have worked even if it was painful.

I love lots of multithreading pain

[olive sable]

classic

[viral oasis]

yeee basically we're working in milliseconds across multiple threads, and it works really well but that also means I have to be more careful.

Because the gears going so fast, its easy to break the track lmao

[olive sable]

story of my life game engine

[stark needle]

https://101.wacom.com/userhelp/en/WacomCenter.htm

wacom center

[keen hatch]

The wacom drivers are so buggy... It's annoying that it doesn't support scaling properly in Windows and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

[olive sable]

im on linux tho

[real sierra]

aha

bug located

[stark needle]

ah rip then ur cooked

[viral oasis]

I'm mad cause of the VRChat latency thing though, theres not many speed opts you can do now as it wont get faster than what vrchat will allow, so I'll prob end up focusing on other areas besides just LLM speed at this point, even if I could shave it down more.

[olive sable]

vrc in general just has shit optimization

[real sierra]

i had expected castling would be impossible here, as part of the castling path is attacked

[stark needle]

https://support.wacom.com/hc/en-us/articles/4418603622295-Are-Wacom-devices-supported-under-Linux

[real sierra]

but it's still legal because the king does not pass through the b square

[stark needle]

maybe ur good

[clear sedge]

if you were on fedora you'd probably have wacom drivers preinstalled

[olive sable]

i think i dont need the app ye

i jsut need to figure out how to make the eablet work in a smaller window than the entire dispaly space

[viral oasis]

yee we get like a 1-3 sec latency from VRChat, but since we are going so fast now we go faster than that limit meaning.. besides consistency theres not many advantages to high speed anymore, I basically run too fast for VRChat.

Soooo

Im pissed 😠

[olive sable]

hypothethically

[stark needle]

that would be done in the app

[olive sable]

how much does vrc depend on the servers?

[viral oasis]

100%

[olive sable]

oh

[stark needle]

vrc uses photon

or something

[viral oasis]

That's why its not fixable, I have no control over their servers.

basically I hit their limit lol

[olive sable]

i was hoping you could make a custom client that runs faster

guess not

[viral oasis]

nahhh and even if I did that would get me perma'd if found out, I kinda have vrchat staff eyeing me as of late.

In a good way it seems, but I'd not risk it.

[olive sable]

true

i should get a job at vrc and fix their shit

[stark needle]

yes u should

but working at vrc

[olive sable]

running at 45fps on a 3090 is unacceptable. i get the same fps as i did on my 3060ti

[amber fractal]

That is a great idea for you, surely you'll get along with the rest of the devs

[olive sable]

https://tenor.com/view/unacceptable-adventure-time-lemongrab-freakout-armflail-gif-5515437

[clear sedge]

working with unity

[viral oasis]

I've been trying to build better relations with their company, I was showing off celestes ability to pathfinding and track recently, it made them all surprised it was possible on their platform lol.

[olive sable]

ill make them submit to me

surely

[amber fractal]

I wait for your engine to gain VR support

[real sierra]

knight moves...

[amber fractal]

Just to slap them in the face

[viral oasis]

next thing I want to do is add more abilities though, I want my bot to be able to sit on chairs, click buttons, use teleporters, etc.

so that'll prob surprise them more.

But also means even more eyes.

[real sierra]

and en passant

[stark needle]

it's cause people can make their own avatars

[real sierra]

wait they're all en passant

[stark needle]

with a trillion polygons

[clear sedge]

have you seen the textures on some of them??

[stark needle]

ye eats so much vram

[clear sedge]

it's like 2048x2048 for a solid color

[amber fractal]

I swear this is the reason I'm going low poly

[clear sedge]

it's crazy

[real sierra]

en passant bane of existence

[clear sedge]

uhuh

[olive sable]

i mean ye sure, but trillions of polygons is not the main issue in vrc i dont think, cuz you can turn that off and i still get low fps

[stark needle]

yep i tried optimizing my avatar as much as possible to only 30k and like 2 materials but it doesnt matter at the end

[olive sable]

ok ye thats jsut bad design. do they not use gltf models?

[viral oasis]

@olive sable To kinda summerize why I think it shocks them so much, till this point unless you modded the game (banable) pathfinding was just straight up not possible, not to the degree I've been messing with, so therefore whilst showing it off to them shows my capabilities, I imagine it prob made some VRChat people internally get nervous.

The more I add the more I'll prob push it lmaaao

[stark needle]

each vrchat avatar is an unityproject

[olive sable]

i can imagine that ye

[olive sable]

its a WHAT??????/

[clear sedge]

gltf ain't helpin where avatars are goin'

[olive sable]

bruh

[amber fractal]

A friend of mine built their AV with a false head and was throwable, just for context of what it allows

[olive sable]

gltf has a bunch of neat things, like instead of adding a texture you can add an rgb value to an entire primitive

[viral oasis]

It's like, I do cool stuff but I imagine not all the staff are happy with the developments even if most seemed like they do like it, so I try to find ways to do it and show that I have no malice with it, even if it can be used for a lot of bad on the platform technically.

[olive sable]

ye i can see how they would get nervous

[viral oasis]

I basically made the impossible possible, and it opens pandoras box a bit on their platform, it just comes down to how its used now.

Add the super fast inference for the chatbot

I can do a lot of crazy things technically.

I guess application is the best way to say is what I'm careful of.

[clear sedge]

i am aware, literally writing a gltf parser and handler as we speak
but you could also, ya know, use a 1x1 image. or a 4x4 color palette with different "indices" for each color if you wanna optimise

[olive sable]

yep

very much true

[viral oasis]

What I'm focusing on this point is basically full NPC behaviors, I want the bot to be able to interact more with the user and the enviroment more.

So I'm tweaking the pathfinder and going to add more functions to it.

[olive sable]

the rgb value is kind annoying shader wise cuz you then need to make support for that too, but a 1x1 texture is pretty nice

[viral oasis]

I also want to scale the math better

[clear sedge]

you say "neat thing gltf has" i hear "more implementation details"

[viral oasis]

I figured using Velocity XZ for the pathfinder can let me scale it better for maps with different speed caps.

So I started grabbing that info and normalizing it.

I throw away the Y value as I felt I didnt need to account for falling.

[clear sedge]

me when i spend time reinventing the wheel and haven't started on an ounce of game logic yet

[stark needle]

ye here's dawns unityproject and technically avatars with cross compatible are two unityprojects

[olive sable]

yep

[olive sable]

i havent used unity much yet, but that doesnt sound very performative

[clear sedge]

it'll be worth it, i'll have my very own engine at the end :D

[olive sable]

bro is also making his own engine

[stark needle]

it's not especially when everyone uses their own shader

[olive sable]

i jsut stole a pre-existant gltf parser lmao

[viral oasis]

In a way I kinda have to reinvent the wheel for some stuff, but once i got the pathfinding working, its just basic game logic at this point with some restrictions

Biggest restriction is lack of data.

So I have to basically create a LOT of data on the fly.

[stark needle]

operator rn

[viral oasis]

yes

I could be really cursed and add flying abilities to my bot

lmaaao

but then I'd need to make air nodes

[olive sable]

celeste ready for take-off

[clear sedge]

i made a json parser, couldn't be bothered to manage another dependency
figured gltf parsers would bundle their own json parsers with them so i decided to write my own gltf parser with my own json parser
mfw i'm literally become game engine dev

[viral oasis]

lol makes her spin rapidly towards the air nodes.

tposing

[olive sable]

https://tenor.com/view/tataki-tuna-kronii-ouro-kronii-helicopter-kroniicopter-gif-23837926

[real sierra]

the best engine is your own