programming

[tender river]

the token counter should be generally usable outside of the competition

even if i didnt make it have good ux

[surreal sapphire]

its stuff like list comprehension that will make a huge difference imo

[pulsar edge]

who needs ux anyways

[keen hatch]

Can a bot just meow in the chat and refuse to play chess?

[tender river]

if you figure out c ffi and manage to write a bot in 1024 tokens (which are just characters), sure

[real sierra]

sure, you will probably come last though

[alpine frigate]

import ctypes easy

[tender river]

you can submit any bot even if it's completely wrong, but bots can't send anything to chat

[tender river]

(major api omission)

[glass flower]

idk...

[tender river]

in bf?

[real sierra]

if you're drunk enough to spend tokens on it, you can in theory printf("info string Hello world!\n"); or your language's equivalent

not sure if cute-chess-cli will render it tho

[tender river]

putStrLn "happy birthday, shiro!"

[real sierra]

you do have to come up with a name for your bot, too

so start thinking

[cedar plume]

saw the announcement, it's time to cook

[glass flower]

botbot

[final tinsel]

printf("info string HBD Shiro!!\n");

[glass flower]

how do i configure cute-chess to run my bot and stockfish

[surreal sapphire]

a = [x**2 for x in vec]

for (int i=0; i < xsize; x++){
  a.push_back(vec[i] * vec[i]) 
}

this is like a 3x difference

not including initialization etc

[real sierra]

if you have the gui version of cute chess, you can open Tools>Settings in the top bar and navigate to the Engines tab:

use the + at the bottom to add a new bot, and set "Command" to something that will start your bot

(instructions for linux, may differ for windows)

[alpine frigate]

for (auto x : vec) {
  a.push_back(x*x);
}

quick token opt

[glass flower]

i'll be honest. even if this is true. i doubt the token difference will make a bot so much smarter compared to other solutions

[real sierra]

if you want stockfish, you'll have to download it from their site and add stockfish the same way (cute-chess comes with no preinstalled engines)

[final tinsel]

what would the easiest/simplest/least likely for me to mess up way for me to do this, as i dont currently have a c/c++ compiler lol

[surreal sapphire]

ah thats fair

[real sierra]

kinda tricky to say, the chess API is pretty vital to making the chess engine work, as well as providing many very useful boilerplate functions for you

anyone have suggestions?

[glass flower]

let a = vec.map(|x| x*x);

[alpine frigate]

also one could probably define a macro to save more tokens lol

[sage crag]

a.resize(xsize)
int i = 0; while(i++ < xsize)
  a[i] = vec[i] * vec[i]);

[surreal sapphire]

probably just get an IDE like CLion is the most plug and play

[sage crag]

you dont need the braces by the way

[final tinsel]

cuz like i have decent recent experience with python, but its been a bit since ive done any c/c++ and the compiler was always the most troublesome part of that for me

[real sierra]

do you develop on windows, sbg?

[sage crag]

for (auto x : vec) a.push_back(x * x);

also works fine

[glass flower]

do you even need a for loop?

[final tinsel]

yea, w/ vscode

[sage crag]

the alternative is using std::transform

[real sierra]

c compilers on windows very pain

[sage crag]

[final tinsel]

can confirm

[real sierra]

i usually elect to just make a linux vm over installing c compiler on windows

[opaque sigil]

just download llvm, it's not that bad

[real sierra]

somehow easier

[final tinsel]

i got one... somewhat working on my school laptop, but that thing is sentient now and DOES NOT LIKE ME

[sage crag]

use msys2

[final tinsel]

i mean i have WSL

i could use that

[opaque sigil]

even better

[glass flower]

i'll be using rust for my bot. probably the best language i can from lower level options

[final tinsel]

sigh i was hoping to just avoid using C or C++ at all here...

[sage crag]

you dont have to

just compile it and you're done

[real sierra]

c compiler is just for building the library, it's a one-time thing

[final tinsel]

yea

more than zero times

[real sierra]

i feel that

[final tinsel]

so i still need to get it

[real sierra]

i wish i could compile it for you but

too platform specific

and also danger

[final tinsel]

fair fair

[alpine frigate]

C++ due to the glorious type unsafe macros. You could save so many tokens with horribly unsafe macro black magic

[sage crag]

you can, it needs to run in linux anyway

[real sierra]

what if different architecture

or what if my particular compiler makes specific optimizations for my platform

[sage crag]

you arent compiling it with native optimisations so you only have to choose arch

[sage crag]

it doesnt

[real sierra]

r u sure...

[glass flower]

i don't think the token limit will be what makes my bot bad

[real sierra]

i dont know enough about compilers ill mess it up

[sage crag]

are you setting -march=native or -mtune=native

[real sierra]

i also am scared of sending someone a binary and then it bricks their pc or something

[surreal sapphire]

no Makefile?

[sage crag]

not gonna happen

[opaque sigil]

shiro you're compiling for what, a 15yo common denominator

[real sierra]

no makefile

[cedar plume]

sane people wouldn't be running them bare metal

[final tinsel]

this is neurocord, sanity is not an expectation

[alpine frigate]

remember to delete the french language packs from your computer with rm -fr /* Don't actually run this

[real sierra]

if you can (and are willing to) set up a vm, you dont need to be sent the binary

[cedar plume]

and in the rare chance the binary actually breaks something, that's on them

[cedar plume]

true

[alpine frigate]

just use a vps, least risk

[real sierra]

C interpreter

[final tinsel]

[alpine frigate]

if it gets bricked. haha funny

[glass flower]

the rust api doesn't compile on windows...

[sage crag]

#programming had an arc about that before

[real sierra]

@trim valve

[sage crag]

@trim valve wake up

[sage crag]

3am, how could you

[glass flower]

pthread.h

what should i replace pthread with for it to compile on windows

[real sierra]

uh oh

[sage crag]

dont compile for msvc target compile for gnu target

or something

[glass flower]

how do i change that...

[surreal sapphire]

r u using rustup

[glass flower]

[opaque sigil]

--target x86_64-pc-windows-gnu or sth

i think this assumes you have the toolchain installed first though

so you'd need to run rustup target add x86_64-pc-windows-gnu first

[glass flower]

but how do i make the rust-analyzer use that target

[sage crag]

bilewater ost extended

[opaque sigil]

don't utter that name

[surreal sapphire]

you can change ur cargo.toml to specify the target triple

iirc

[glass flower]

i already have gnu target

[sage crag]

in .cargo/config.toml

[glass flower]

[sage crag]

[build]
target = "x86_64-pc-windows-gnu"

[sage crag]

but ost good

[real sierra]

can you let me know if this works btw

[final tinsel]

it didnt give me an error, but i dont know where the file went

[opaque sigil]

wherever you ran the command

windows search doesn't check wsl

[final tinsel]

one would think

[final tinsel]

ya not on wsl rn

[tender river]

slightly better with using namespace std;

[surreal sapphire]

:d are we pro using namespace std here

[opaque sigil]

only for saving tokens

[surreal sapphire]

also how do yall pronounce std

[opaque sigil]

stud

[final tinsel]

S. T. D.

[real sierra]

did it put it beside the gcc executable

[final tinsel]

...perhaps

one sec

[sage crag]

phrrr

phrr

phr

[tender river]

when it saves tokens

[sage crag]

ph

p

[real sierra]

idk how the other file paths would resolve if that happened

[glass flower]

it still does not want to compile...

[final tinsel]

erm

[surreal sapphire]

oh i wasn't thinking about that

[final tinsel]

WHERE DID IT GO

[real sierra]

dont underestimate the token limit

[final tinsel]

is there a verbose logging flag for compile?

[real sierra]

it leads to scary places

[sage crag]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1276149117717970964.gif?quality=lossless&name=nopy&size=64

in there

[real sierra]

try putting an explicit path on libchess.so

[final tinsel]

ooo big brain

[opaque sigil]

are you sure it even finished

windows programs like to silently die

[real sierra]

maybe paths on the .c files too

[sage crag]

naming things hardest part of making projects

[tender river]

just use wsl

[sage crag]

ye just wsl

[final tinsel]

i dont wanna rn

[sage crag]

ye bad

use msys2 then

[final tinsel]

i am

[sage crag]

then installing clang was just pacman -S clang

[final tinsel]

yea but like, my thing still isnt workin right

[opaque sigil]

won't msys2 gcc create a dll

so the file is useless anyway

[sage crag]

[final tinsel]

...hm

[real sierra]

it does?

[final tinsel]

nono that sounds right

[opaque sigil]

i mean, you're compiling for windows

[sage crag]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1072697081443131476/1377728467025530950/NewLeafAbyss.gif

[final tinsel]

i see no leaf?

where leaf?

[real sierra]

ctypes should still work with a dll, no?

[sage crag]

ye no leafs in chat

[real sierra]

you might just have to change the path it checks

in pychessapi.py

[glass flower]

do i have to change the clang command to fix the compilation error? i don't think its a rust issue

[opaque sigil]

it should work yeah

[real sierra]

whats the error again?

[glass flower]

pthread.h

file not found

[opaque sigil]

do you depend on pthreads shiro

[real sierra]

right

i do depend on pthreads

[opaque sigil]

there we go

[real sierra]

those arent on windows are they

[opaque sigil]

nope

[glass flower]

[tender river]

[alpine frigate]

What are cpu limits?

[tender river]

ye use wsl

[real sierra]

wsl has pthreads

[opaque sigil]

yup

[glass flower]

[real sierra]

it's running in a VM and i have a ryzen 7 5700x, and other applicable rules (notably single-threaded)

beyond that i dont have much to tell you on cpu limits

crunch numbers

[sage crag]

you not count

[tender river]

[sage crag]

ermleaf

[final tinsel]

sigh opening wsl.

man i didnt want to look at gnuradio today

[sage crag]

:ermLeafL: :ermLeafR:

[surreal sapphire]

RAM?

[sage crag]

2

[final tinsel]

wait also if i compile it on wsl its not gonna run on standalone windows where i have everything else tho, right...?

[real sierra]

tentative limit is something like 4GB

[sage crag]

erm

[real sierra]

i wouldn't advise getting too close to that limit

[alpine frigate]

erm

[tender river]

it wont run on windows period

pthreads

[real sierra]

it will not, you'll have to run it on wsl too

[tender river]

[surreal sapphire]

okayyy thats actually helpful for setting depth limits

[final tinsel]

yea ok so back to trying to compile on windows then

[real sierra]

i'll look into if i can fix the pthreads issue but it seems kinda complicated

[tender river]

https://sourceforge.net/projects/pthreads4w/ surely

[real sierra]

do i just make my own pthreads.h and have it wrap windows functions?

[opaque sigil]

https://sourceforge.net/projects/pthreads4w/ there's this but uhhhh

gl

[real sierra]

this download button scares me

[sage crag]

delay chess tournament by 2 years

if you want to do that

[real sierra]

2005 virus lookin

[sage crag]

[real sierra]

i only need like 4 functions

i just wrap windows functions for similar thing

done

[sage crag]

dont use pthreads then

[tender river]

shiro have you never used sourceforge

[sage crag]

[real sierra]

nope

[opaque sigil]

i'm jealous

[sage crag]

c11 has threads.h

you dont even need pthread

[glass flower]

[final tinsel]

smh somebody never played modded mc around 1.12.2 or modded KSP around 1.6

[tender river]

somebody didnt use their pc in 2010s

[opaque sigil]

apparently vcpkg's pthreads package just uses pthreads4w on windows

interesting

[real sierra]

i was in elementary school in 2010

[tender river]

so was i

[sage crag]

which one is elementary school

[real sierra]

first 3 or 4 years

er is that primary schoo,

whatever

[sage crag]

bless you

[opaque sigil]

has anyone ever heard of Fano–Elias coding

[tender river]

i enrolled in 2010

[opaque sigil]

wtf is this crap

[sage crag]

dont use msvc then use gnu

[tender river]

3y ago

[sage crag]

it will work

i remember this for a fact

[real sierra]

[glass flower]

https://github.com/fwbuilder/pthreads4w

[sage crag]

also msvc has it now i think

[alpine frigate]

Seems like bad arithmetic coding?

[sage crag]

incredibly bad yes

[real sierra]

i will work on transitioning to threads.h then

will semaphore.h still work

nope

[sage crag]

yes

it should

[real sierra]

r u sure

[sage crag]

use mtx_t instead

[real sierra]

🥀

[glass flower]

shiro not using the latest crossplatform way of programming...

[sage crag]

write your own semaphore its not that hard with a backing mutex

[real sierra]

does threads.h have semaphores

[sage crag]

[sage crag]

[real sierra]

🥀 reimplementing library functions because windows is bad

[sage crag]

it really not that hard

[real sierra]

didnt say it was

[sage crag]

https://cjbohlman.github.io/posts/post-1/
look i found one

[real sierra]

if its not hard for me its even less hard for windows

[sage crag]

ye not windows fault

blame c committee

pthreads is posix threads, threads is c threads

[glass flower]

shouldn't it just be a simple find and replace?

[sage crag]

is it ever a simple find and replace with a language as old and tech-debt filled as C

[keen hatch]

a long time ago I wrote in cpp... and now I'm doing who knows what... ehh

[real sierra]

2007

[sage crag]

ermplode yourself

[keen hatch]

Yeah, it was so long ago.

[sage crag]

and your username hasnt changed this whole time

[tender river]

it has condvars

[glass flower]

well.. i guess i have to wait for you guys to figure it out. i can't figure out how to compile it

[opaque sigil]

wsl

[glass flower]

how does that solve anything...

[opaque sigil]

it supplies the things windows doesn't

like pthreads

[glass flower]

what

[opaque sigil]

you said it broke because it couldn't find pthread.h right
that's not a thing on windows but on linux it is and since wsl2 is just linux it should work there

[real sierra]

soon™

[tender river]

you will have to just run it on linux, and wsl is a linux vm

[real sierra]

already working on replacing pthreads

[tender river]

cute chess in wsl, clang in wsl

[glass flower]

so... not a solution

[tender river]

it is a solution either way shiro's working on switching away from pthreads

[glass flower]

switching the whole dev environment to work on something isn't a solution. its a bandaid for missing crossplatform

[tender river]

windows dev tooling just supports wsl natively nowadays

[sage crag]

nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

[glass flower]

i have wsl installed.. i used it for docker desktop.

[tender river]

ye idk what your setup is but vscode or windows terminal just support wsl

[glass flower]

i use vscode

[tender river]

https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/remote/wsl

[final tinsel]

ngl wsl is super easy to use with vscode

[glass flower]

[final tinsel]

u do wsl --install in powershell, then remote into it using the official wsl extension for vscode

[sage crag]

plumeria

flower

why all flower names too long for projects

not catchy

[glass flower]

i had a ubuntu installed. but it took too much space so i uninstalled it again...

but then.. how would i test the bot

[tender river]

cute chess in wsl

[final tinsel]

yea thats why im not using wsl LOL

also

erm

[glass flower]

what does this even mean....

[tender river]

shiro use long long @real sierra

or better yet

use __builtin_clz

[real sierra]

copy pasted code

[final tinsel]

not helpin ur case here

[tender river]

read contest readme

[glass flower]

im just gonna wait until you guys figure out windows support. don't want to install a linux distro just for this

[final tinsel]

HAHA i literally just changed long unsigned to long long unsigned and it worked

ITS COMPILED

ON WINDOWS

NEYEYEAYAYYAYAYAHAHA

HAPPY BIRTHDAY SHIRO

[glass flower]

[glass flower]

how

[glass flower]

just read the readme again... this doesn't explain anything

[final tinsel]

almost just went to fork and update with my fix on my school github

with my real name on it

[real sierra]

i will probably deny the PR given how many changes im making on my end

easier to just add long over here than it is to resolve a merge conflict

[final tinsel]

[keen hatch]

[final tinsel]

you wouldnt kill a baby pull request, would you?

[real sierra]

[final tinsel]

-# totally wasnt also doing this so i could learn how the whole fork/pull whatever system works cuz ive procrastinated actually doing so for years

also, anyone have a link to the right stockfish version/site and all?

[glass flower]

this? https://stockfishchess.org/download/

how do i make stockfish dumber in cutechess?

[real sierra]

can i just use uint64_t since that's the intended size

then no platform-specific long shenanigans

i've pushed both the long fix and the replaced pthreads.h fix @tender river @final tinsel @glass flower

please let me know if there are any issues because i obviously didnt test very long

[tender river]

scala supports js interop i wonder if i could create a web page for the token counter

[final tinsel]

i am officially in the "it works, dont touch it" stage of the libchess.so file so uh yeah

[real sierra]

[final tinsel]

i changed long to long long and ran it inside UCRT64 terminal

aur naur

ok this is likely a me problem

gimme a sec

[real sierra]

@sage crag how does a shebang work on windows

[tender river]

it does not

[real sierra]

cutechess win may be an adventure

make sure file ext is .py and that your default program is the right python ver, and pray?

[tender river]

you could create a bat file that runs the python file

it may or may not work

[final tinsel]

i tried to do with just a command but it didnt like it

maybe it wants full paths?

[real sierra]

idk why but i also found cute chess was seldom happy with something like that

[tender river]

yeah full path is the minimum

[final tinsel]

ah ok

[real sierra]

even with full path

[tender river]

also you wouldnt happen to have any spaces in the full path would you

[real sierra]

cute chess is seldom happy if the command is not just a single path

[tender river]

and then you probably need to prepend the full path to python to the full path to the python file

[tender river]

ye space cant do

[final tinsel]

oooo

smh

[real sierra]

u can \ the space out?

mayb?

[tender river]

yeahh just \ it

surely \ has no meaning in windows paths

[real sierra]

does that work on win

can also put the path in ""

[final tinsel]

no

[final tinsel]

yea that was kinda the first step

surely just renaming the folder can't cause any other issues

[tender river]

if you did quote it above, then you quoted the wrong parts you quoted the entire cmd instead of only python exe path and only bot py path

[final tinsel]

ooooooooooo

[real sierra]

nono i mean put the individual paths in ""
"M:\...\python.exe" "M:\...\example_bot.py"

[final tinsel]

yea no its fine with the spaces

[real sierra]

yeah i had similar issues

[final tinsel]

...frick

[sage crag]

it does not

[glass flower]

[real sierra]

those return longs...

[tender river]

longs are nonportable in general

[sage crag]

@real sierra

use wsl

use wsl

[real sierra]

[sage crag]

[glass flower]

just added .into and it works

[tender river]

[real sierra]

i will nuclear explode u

[sage crag]

[tender river]

[final tinsel]

NOW IT DOESNT EVEN SHOW AS AN OPTION EVEN THO IT LET ME SET IT AAAAAAAAAAAA

[real sierra]

will switch them to uint64_t

[sage crag]

long long is 64 bit on some platform 128 bit on other platform

[glass flower]

you need to restart cutechess for the dropdown to work

[sage crag]

ye not trust long

dangerous

[tender river]

where is it 128

[final tinsel]

i didnt before

[tender river]

probably on 128-bit cpus

[glass flower]

it works now.... somewhat. no idea how to initialize tho

[glass flower]

[sage crag]

well, c std specifies >= 64, but i cant remember if any actually do that

[keen hatch]

It seems I've solved the issue with the cuda oom... that's good

[sage crag]

[tender river]

afaik long long is same width as long on 64-bit linux

not very long

[final tinsel]

cmoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooon

[real sierra]

uploaded new version with long switched to uint64_t

[tender river]

shrio

[sage crag]

ye 2 long is 1 long

[tender river]

do i make toknt web

[sage crag]

2 = 1

[tender river]

[final tinsel]

shrio

[real sierra]

up2u, would be very convenient

[glass flower]

tell me when you figure this out i also haven't gotten further

[sage crag]

web => silksong

silksong => insert 30 rosaries

[tender river]

how do i insert more

[real sierra]

[sage crag]

insert 30 rosaries => capitalism commentary

capitalism commentary => against rule 3

against rule 3 => ban

[final tinsel]

anyone know why no initializey?

[tender river]

ye shiro ban konii

[sage crag]

[tender river]

because it expects a single file and you're passing it multiple

its easy to fix on linux

on windows you have to figure out yourself

you can try removing spaces and quotes

[final tinsel]

nuh uh

[tender river]

i don't guarantee it working

[tender river]

do bats actually run when passed to whatever windows's exec is?

or is it just when passed to cmd /c?

[final tinsel]

i think so

[tender river]

well i dont

but i dont know for sure

[glass flower]

what if you just run a exe. thats not multiple files yet it still doesn't work

[tender river]

has to be a valid uci bot

try with some random one you download from the internet

[final tinsel]

stockfish loads

[glass flower]

it works with stockfish

[glad path]

I added the "hovering" system prompt, seems to improve things a bit

[tender river]

then could be windows pthreads issue

[glass flower]

i get the engine debug. so it is running my main function atleast

[final tinsel]

when i used pyinstaller to try and .exe-ify it still didnt work

[tender river]

note that not a single person tested it on windows

use linux or wsl or wait until someone (could be you) does make it work on windows

[glass flower]

[tender river]

wait for shiro to switch away from pthreads first tho

[real sierra]

i already did switch away from pthreads

i even pinged you

[tender river]

i thought its about longs

[glass flower]

seems like the chess api doesn't work

idk

[alpine frigate]

btw what grammar is toknt using? It's counting #include <iostream> as 5 tokens, while treesitter only counts this as 2 tokens

[tender river]

ye missed pthreads

[tender river]

this is actually 3 tokens as per the standard

you can do "iostream" for fully standards complaint counting

i dont do it because header names are only parsed as a single token in very specific circumstances

which i dont want to implement

[alpine frigate]

💀

[stoic turtle]

how do I get the libchess.so

[tender river]

treesitter also counts #define j j j jqoj j ja k aj j as a single token

[alpine frigate]

discrimination against C++

[final tinsel]

aight imma try and get 8 hours for the first time in a while, ill see yall later

[tender river]

i explained how to fix it

[real sierra]

which language are you using?

[stoic turtle]

python

[tender river]

and which os

[alpine frigate]

So if I push a patch? I get my two tokens?

[stoic turtle]

windows 11

[tender river]

no you dont push a patch to toknt because its correct as long as you do "iostream" instead of <iostream>

[keen hatch]

epic fail... I forgot to replace tokenizer

Token 40: '<SPECIAL_40>'
Token 41: '<SPECIAL_41>'
Token 42: '<SPECIAL_42>'
Token 43: '<SPECIAL_43>'
Token 44: '<SPECIAL_44>'
<｜VOICE｜> encodes to: [1060, 6495, 1156, 25313, 21758, 6495, 1156, 1062]
tensor([[    1,     1,     3,  5675,  3120,  1534,  6495,  1156, 25313, 21758,
          6495,  1156,  1062,  4204,  1063,  1032,     4,    42, 26607, 29930,
         34311,  1046,     2]], device='cuda:0')
['<s><s>[INST] What does <｜VOICE｜> mean? [/INST]<SPECIAL_42> marks spoken dialogue.</s>']

[tender river]

tree-sitter is wrong and it isnt actually built for the purpose of counting tokens so its fine for it to be wrong

[glass flower]

how does UCI work in the chessapi?

[tender river]

and <iostream> would be a single token if i implemented the very specific rules:

header name preprocessing tokens are recognized only within
#include and #embed preprocessing directives, in __has_include and __has_embed expressions,
as well as in implementation-defined locations within #pragma directives. In such contexts, a
sequence of characters that could be either a header name or a string literal is recognized as the
former.

if you want to support that go ahead not stopping you

[real sierra]

the chess api implements enough of the UCI spec to interface with a chess engine host and register itself as a valid chess engine

all of the UCI-facing stuff is handled by the chess API in a separate thread

you shouldn't need to interact with it directly

[glass flower]

well... its not doing that so...

[real sierra]

if you are running it standalone and it's silent, that's because the UCI spec defines that the gui should send the first communication

a gui typically sends something like:

uci
position startpos
go infinite

after which the chess api would unbreak from whichever api call it's halted on

[glass flower]

well.. the gui tells me that it can't initialize. and also no options so..

(tho i assume no options is normal)

[real sierra]

no options is normal, those are implemented by the engine

[stoic turtle]

pls someone give me the libchess.so

[real sierra]

can't initialize is not normal though

[tender river]

windows good luck shiro

[real sierra]

[stoic turtle]

would it be better if I used my mac?

[real sierra]

time to download clion

[tender river]

yes actually

[stoic turtle]

I'll do that in a bit then

[tender river]

shiro will fix windows at some point realistically, you could help him with that if you want to

[glass flower]

chess_get_board fails to initialize

[tender river]

until then we dont have a clear "do this and that to run your bot" path for you

[stoic turtle]

if I do stuff on my laptop I can work on it at school tho

[tender river]

python? rust?

[glass flower]

rust

i swapped out the .c files for the updated ones

[tender river]

threading issue probably

i should probably test the nonpthreads version too

[glass flower]

looks like it

[real sierra]

issues wouldn't be too surprising

[final tinsel]

It’s been 10 mins since I started a stockfish vs stockfish game and then went and brushed my teeth and all, and they have made zero moves. Leaving it on overnight to come back to tomorrow and look at

[glass flower]

well.. have fun debugging. i have no idea how threading in c works

for me stockfish moves take like 10 seconds at most

[true hemlock]

this is the lowest wattage my 13900 engineering sample pulls

0.5GHz on 2.7W lmao

also 3.9GHz on only 9.3W

everytime apple fans yap aboout how "efficient" ther chips are imma show them this

[sage crag]

[tender river]

[sage crag]

ye i had this conversation with people that typical x86 cpus arent any more power hungry than arm cpus at the same clocks / performance

[true hemlock]

i've made full rants about how "ARM = efficient" is completely misleading

but my simplest argument would be about how some max/ultra M chips can easily pull 300-400W

most apple shill only looked into base TDP/idle power consumption

also apple's chip pipeline are made for low clock high IPC and they have their whole ecosystem built around that in mind

and x86 is way more versatile with higher clocks

2 different worlds, different things

[sage crag]

mobile arm chips are typically good for how little heat they put out on idle or low consumption

but as soon as you go to high consumption it kinda switches with x86

[true hemlock]

heat dissipation factor is a thing too, apple chips are made massive

[sage crag]

[true hemlock]

also x86 has a lot of advantages with CISC

[sage crag]

there's a lot of misinformation about this spread because lots of pre-uni education says that "risc is more efficient than cisc, due to pipelining etc"

[true hemlock]

and benchmarks that shows apple chip has higher performance aren't usually a good set point to compare between arm and x86 due to different instruction implementations and most of it are being pure compute workload which gives the higher IPC pipeline (expecially vector) quite the advantage

[sage crag]

in truth, x86 does pipelining anyway so its just disinfo

[true hemlock]

also ARM is not any newer, its almost the same age as x86

also RISC still mostly useless in versatility and its not widely used

[stoic turtle]

All I know is my mac lasts like 5x longer than my windows laptop

[sage crag]

with arm specifically, the ISA is customised per cpu, but arm also has a crazy large instruction set

its not really "risc" in its purest form

[sage crag]

i would disagree, risc is very useful in virtual machines

[true hemlock]

better power management yeah, the idle does pull way less

[sage crag]

in hardware, risc is not very common though

[rich ibex]

remember to normalize your normals kids, just spent 2hrs+ on a bug just for it to be a normal i forgot to normalize

[sage crag]

well, except in embedded

[glad path]

#
include
<
iostream
>

probably something like this

[sage crag]

rv5 is everywhere in embedded

[true hemlock]

so that's why ARM based AWS are just mostly sed as VM

[real sierra]

no threads.h on windows?

windows please

just have a single damn library

[sage crag]

-std=c23

[real sierra]

saved

[true hemlock]

but when you do heavy workloads both drains as fast

[glass flower]

i have no problem compiling

[tender river]

is it i guess i dont know enough about embedded because i mostly see esp32

[sage crag]

depends on what you are doing to be fair

[tender river]

wait i forgot about avr

but its not risc-v its just risc

also esp32 are making risc-v not just xtensa devices apparently

glueless

[real sierra]

[tender river]

try -std=c2x or 2y or whatever it was

[glass flower]

gcc.... rust bindgen only works with clang.. surely that wont make a difference

[real sierra]

2x exists but no threads.h

[tender river]

old compiler

[real sierra]

joever

have to install new c compiler on windows

[tender river]

try msvc

its not an advice i would give lightly

you dont have to install full visual studio

you can just install the build tools

[real sierra]

[tender river]

though they're going to be a pain to use without something like cmake

[real sierra]

found download

[real sierra]

clion comes with cmake

not that i know how to use cmake

[tender river]

ye but you havent written a cmake file

[real sierra]

surely it'll pregen one

it cant be that hard to make the file i need

[glass flower]

[tender river]

ye cmake is so easy

[glass flower]

this is gonna be fun to watch

[real sierra]

-7GB

how are the build tools this big

[tender river]

you could just try clang too

[whole flax]

woah chess bot competition

[real sierra]

chess bot competition!

[whole flax]

i like the restriction

[real sierra]

thanks! much inspiration from the video in the credits

[opaque sigil]

go into the msys2 shell and update gcc

[tender river]

sounds good ye shiro do that

[real sierra]

i dont even know how gcc is installed

[opaque sigil]

pacman -Syyu should do the trick (second y might be optional I don't remember)

[real sierra]

some cursed build tools bundle im sure

[real sierra]

is msys2 just wsl

[opaque sigil]

no

[real sierra]

i dont have it then

that's gcc.exe

[opaque sigil]

where does gcc.exe live

[real sierra]

uhhh

[opaque sigil]

[real sierra]

mingw

bundled with clion it seems

[opaque sigil]

tf

[tender river]

actually i'm impressed nobody asked how to use toknt yet

[opaque sigil]

shiro do yourself a favour and just download the llvm installer from their GitHub then

And use clang

[glass flower]

i cant get the bot to run. why would i care about tokens yet

[real sierra]

mingw msvc wsl clang

[true hemlock]

[glass flower]

write your own compiler

[real sierra]

try all of them

[opaque sigil]

Native dev is fun on windows isn't it

[tender river]

isnt windows just lovely

[glass flower]

i have all of those installed

[midnight sigil]

that's crazy

[real sierra]

msvc doesn't have threads.h either

wait yes it does

it built anyway even tho it said it couldnt

[glass flower]

[real sierra]

i got a .lib file

[glass flower]

[real sierra]

im sure its fine

[lament igloo]

windows defender is going crazy

[real sierra]

now to install python

[glass flower]

winget python

[real sierra]

wait maybe it already here

prob old ver tho

[glass flower]

[lament igloo]

bruh what the fuck, its actual malware

[real sierra]

latest i have is py 3.11

im sure thats fine

[true hemlock]

5.1GHz 10.4W

this is definitely way more efficient than ANY of apples chip

see what i meant now

efficiency can't even be compared nor measured because of bunch of nonlinear factors

so neither ARM nor x86 is more efficient

[glass flower]

[real sierra]

whos gonna tell em

[lament igloo]

found the cause

[glass flower]

[obsidian mantle]

Sooo
Is it going to work on windows?

learning linux to make ches bot

[real sierra]

huh.

that's... awkward

[opaque sigil]

[glass flower]

.so

[opaque sigil]

They should have a way to get the suffix

[real sierra]

i changed the name of the file to .so

[opaque sigil]

Or just do the check yourself ig

[real sierra]

ez file rename

[glass flower]

surely that works....

[real sierra]

[opaque sigil]

This isn't linux shiro

[tender river]

shiro thats what i told you earlier

[real sierra]

[real sierra]

i wasnt listening

fine i rename it back to .lib

[tender river]

use ctypes.util.find_library('chess')

but build dll instead of lib

lib is a static library

you have to build a shared library

[real sierra]

fucking windows

[glass flower]

skill issue

[real sierra]

nuclear explosion bomb incoming windows

ok cmake cache

take my options no complaining

stackoverflow my beloved

[lament igloo]

Virus:Win32/Sality.AT

bro how many

[tender river]

wait no find_library returns a path

use ctypes.CDLL('chess') (or 'chess.dll') probably

[real sierra]

nah itll work as is

trust

[glad path]

cant you run something to recursively delete those

[lament igloo]

would reformatting the drive truly erases all traces of this Sality virus

[glad path]

the sality things

[lament igloo]

cus i swear this shit is making me crazy

[obsidian mantle]

what the deal with dll and lib?
You cant replace lib without replacing the exe using it, but you can with dll?

[glass flower]

it infects every running process

[glad path]

i mean

you can backup to cloud

and nuke the drive

[lament igloo]

i didnt run the virus, windows defender keeps giving me notifications about it

[opaque sigil]

First is loaded at runtime, the other at compile time (with a couple asterisks, you can load .lib files at runtime too)

[real sierra]

[lament igloo]

and whenever i try to click "Start Action" 30 more popup

[glass flower]

good that you didn't run it atleast

[real sierra]

its compiling to something but not a dll

wtf is a .lib

i dont understand

[glass flower]

static library. dll is dynamic link library

[real sierra]

OH

wiat

[glass flower]

static libraries get compiled into the exe. dll can exist next to it

[real sierra]

no that didnt fix it

[glass flower]

compile a dll....

[real sierra]

i didnt tell it to be static its just doing that

[glass flower]

well.. change that

[real sierra]

80 step process

[glad path]

kill them with task manager?

or jut install an antivirus

[glass flower]

its like 1 more arg during compiling

if you use cmake i think its like 1 option you need to set. or chang the project or something idk what your cmake file looks like

[real sierra]

I DID IT

[glass flower]

[real sierra]

[glass flower]

[lament igloo]

i didnt run the virus, defender is actively cleaning the drive so i cant stop defender

i should just fully wipe the drive yo

[real sierra]

ok

i switch mutex type to recursive

wait

that doesnt make sense...

[glad path]

ok

[real sierra]

idk how deadlocks are possible

i make sure they wouldn't be

[glass flower]

deadlock? you mean that new valve game

[glad path]

what new valve game

valve can't make new games

they like

forgot how

[real sierra]

ahhh it is recursive true

but its not a deadlock, it's intentional

[glass flower]

[real sierra]

unless it can only be unlocked by the locking thread

[glass flower]

only one way to find out

[real sierra]

i mean if thats the case then you just cant implement semaphores

[glass flower]

why did it work on linux tho? are they automatically recursive?

[real sierra]

and it also doesnt make much sense if mutexes have to be locked and unlocked in the same thread

[opaque sigil]

That is in fact how mutexes work yes

[real sierra]

?

[opaque sigil]

Shiro please

[real sierra]

that doesnt make sense

well it does

but it doesnt

[glass flower]

[real sierra]

[opaque sigil]

You lock

[real sierra]

you took away my semaphores

not my fault windows is lacking basic support for threading features

[glass flower]

just find a library for it then

[opaque sigil]

Every other thread that tries to lock blocks until the one that has the lock unlocks

[real sierra]

then there's external deps this shouldnt require a library its basic system functionality

[opaque sigil]

Mutexes are just semaphores with 1 ticket

[glass flower]

a single c file next to the others...

[real sierra]

besides it works on linux

[glass flower]

why tho..

[real sierra]

windows fault

[glass flower]

that seems more like a lucky accident that it works on linux

[real sierra]

thats what i need

my semaphore was initialized with 0 before

[keen hatch]

One thread locks a mutex, another waits until the thread that locks the mutex unlocks it... that's the whole point.

[glass flower]

btw... windows has semaphores

[real sierra]

theres no shard semaphore lib between win and linux

only shared threads.h

The behavior is undefined if the current thread has already locked the mutex and the mutex is not recursive.

[glass flower]

https://github.com/DoumanAsh/semka

[opaque sigil]

Are you trying to lock the same mutex multiple times

[glass flower]

wait.. nvm thats rust

[real sierra]

mandatory for the functionality

[opaque sigil]

That's stupid

Don't do that

[glass flower]

thats stupid

[real sierra]

wdym stupid

[opaque sigil]

[real sierra]

if you want a semaphore you can wait on

[opaque sigil]

It makes no sense

You already have the lock

[glass flower]

why would you want to lock the same thread multiple times

[opaque sigil]

[real sierra]

ok ur jsut not gonna listen

not worth explaining

[opaque sigil]

I'll listen

[real sierra]

[opaque sigil]

actually curious

There must be a misunderstanding somewhere

[real sierra]

the flow of events is like this

• initialize semaphore
• start second thread for UCI processing
• wait for second thread to post semaphore

these 3 all happen in the first thread in that order

you can't initialize the semaphore in the second thread, or you could hit the wait before it's initialized

the wait is mandatory to ensure you dont return to bot code without the UCI library having initialized the board state from the gui

if you want to implement the semaphore with a mutex, this means the semaphore mutex must be locked by the time you reach the wait

[opaque sigil]

That sounds like you want a condition variable

[real sierra]

but then you must lock it from the same thread

[real sierra]

i want a semaphore

tho

i havent looked at condition variables

could work

[opaque sigil]

So the main thread blocks until it gets flipped by the other thread

[real sierra]

[opaque sigil]

Semaphores work I guess but that's really scuffed and not what they're made for

[real sierra]

it worked but yeah it did feel like a contrived use case

[keen hatch]

as i understand you want to implement await?

[real sierra]

0 count semaphore

[real sierra]

many solutions to the producer-consumer pattern

it needs to be multithreaded tho

the UCI interface must process input while inside user bot code

which does not have pause points

[opaque sigil]

You basically implemented a condition variable with a semaphore

[real sierra]

ok ill look into condition vars and see if these work

[opaque sigil]

You confused me because I thought you used a semaphore as yknow, a semaphore

Idk if c even has condition variables

If not you can always do it with atomics I guess

[real sierra]

threads.h does!

:D

thats why im happy you mentioned it

[opaque sigil]

[real sierra]

it seems a bit complicated to use though

there aren't a lot of suggestions as to how to best use them

[opaque sigil]

It's a bit convoluted for such a simple use case I guess

[real sierra]

i think i see how i wanna do it tho

lets see if this works

[opaque sigil]

There is a pretty standard example on the c++ page (logic should be identical)

[real sierra]

it seems like it's working

[glass flower]

[real sierra]

there's some weirdness being printed to the console

but it seems functional

[opaque sigil]

If you're okay with busy looping you can also just use an atomic variable

[real sierra]

noper busy loop bad

could impact other bot

[opaque sigil]

I guess that's true

[real sierra]

seems like its working fine now

at least the concurrency aspect of it

[opaque sigil]

[real sierra]

i'll push these changes shortly once i test on linux as well

i made a small change to pychessapi.py ill also push, which automatically changes if it looks for dll or .so based on platform

[spiral copper]

hi, just a heads up for the chessbot event. the tokent repo can't be built with sbt if you're using openjdk 21,
I needed to downgrade it to openjdk 17 first.
I had no experience with scala so this was pretty confusing for me

[glass flower]

someone actually tried toknt

[spiral copper]

took sevveral years of my life

[real sierra]

@tender river fix or add to docs

[tender river]

i used openjdk 21 originally and it worked

either way there are prebuilt artifacts

they're just hard to fnid

[opaque sigil]

Doesn't it target java 8 anyway

[rigid timber]

can you make them easier to find

[real sierra]

good news

py bot successfully added to cutechess

[glass flower]

[real sierra]

Working Directory should be the path to where your bot.py file is

my path happens to dox my entire existence so it is redacted

[glass flower]

probably should write that in the py api readme

[real sierra]

im gonna test a little more on my end to ensure it works first

if you could give me another data point that'd be great

[tender river]

fix it

[glass flower]

sure... but i use rust

[real sierra]

oh right

no worries then

it's broken anyway

interesting

[glass flower]

you could just send the me the c api.... i can just replace them for the rust bindings

[tender river]

using __file__

[real sierra]

fix what

[tender river]

fix having to set working directory

[real sierra]

wdym

thats not a bug

cute chess is running python

so if you want it to find the python bot you pass to python

you have to have it run python from the right working directory

[glass flower]

you could still fix it

[real sierra]

those are cute chess settings nothing to do with me

[tender river]

oh why not just use full path to .py instead

[real sierra]

it wasnt working for the other person that tried it

[tender river]

was it working for you tho

[real sierra]

maybe it works now but i thought i'd just try it this way instead and it happened to work

[real sierra]

why would i try what wasnt working silly

[tender river]

because the c api wasnt working either

[real sierra]

doesnt mean its the only problem

[midnight sigil]

how can it even crash

[real sierra]

[midnight sigil]

[real sierra]

what did you do to it

[midnight sigil]

I opened a file and that's it

[opaque sigil]

A certified visual studio moment

[glass flower]

thats just visual studio

[real sierra]

ok so this one wasnt me

[tender river]

minor complaint its common to use library file names without lib prefix on windows

so chess.dll

[glass flower]

clang has a libclang.dll

[real sierra]

not my main concern rn

[tender river]

LoadLibrary("x") will load x.dll but dlopen("x") will load libx.so

[glass flower]

interesting

[tender river]

or something like that, anyway

[real sierra]

its doing the thing again where it uses moves from a freed array again

i fixed that issue how is it still happening

it doesnt happen on linux anymore

[glass flower]

sounds like undefined behaviour

[olive sable]

Goooodmorning

Class in 40 min, gotta go

[real sierra]

sam woke up and im still awake

[glass flower]

don't worry me too... its 8am

[real sierra]

ctypes doesnt define most of its behaviour, figures

[hoary lion]

am busy lately and cant appear often at #programming

time to play with wan2.2

[glass flower]

well its called ctypes and not cbehaviours