programming

[clear sedge]

chat it works

[midnight sigil]

buffer overflows

[opaque sigil]

[midnight sigil]

wait for ram to jump up to 1gb

[clear sedge]

womp womp, the buffer will never be any size other than 4 chars

[opaque sigil]

now vectorise it

[clear sedge]

i am not writing a general case utf32 to utf8 converter

i am writing a \uXXXX to utf8 converter

:3

[midnight sigil]

waste of memory smh

[clear sedge]

the buffer itself can fit in a single register

o_O

[opaque sigil]

i wonder if there would be any benefit in just using a uint32_t as output (speed wise)

[midnight sigil]

programs won't really utilize registers

your windows fuck them up already

[olive sable]

so linux does use them?

[midnight sigil]

idk

[clear sedge]

windows can go kill itself

non-standard piece of shit

[midnight sigil]

they make the standards

[clear sedge]

not following any standard is not the same as making your own standard

they are loose as fuck

[midnight sigil]

[clear sedge]

doubt it, you can test it for yourself but i would expect there to be a very negligible speed difference if any

plus that just means i'd have to reinterpret memory in c++

i am not touching that rabbit hole

[rigid snow]

i feel human again

i am on a functional browser

[midnight sigil]

put on -O2 and they have no differences

[rigid snow]

i have a dumb question, if i have an A dns record pointing straight to an ip, and if make a CNAME record pointing to that A record but the CNAME is "proxied through cloudflare" will it actually be proxied

[rough bloom]

it should be (only the CNAME record)

[rigid snow]

thanks

[rough bloom]

I dunno if there's anything special when both records are on Cloudflare but CNAME records to somewhere else are definitely proxied

[rigid snow]

just making sure i am not stupid

[amber fractal]

I swear I'll do anything to stall on large projects. Not planning on stressing out anyone else with this though.

[rigid snow]

what

why would anyone care about this, which project

what kind of project does this have anything to do with

i'm so confused

[opaque sigil]

take this for what you will (aka it doesn't matter enough to deal with the mental overhead)

[clear sedge]

is that comic sans

[opaque sigil]

comic code

[clear sedge]

fuck you

[opaque sigil]

so sort of

[clear sedge]

how do i get that

where do i get that

[rigid snow]

it's a paid font

[clear sedge]

blyat

[opaque sigil]

yeah

[clear sedge]

oh well

[rigid snow]

i have it though

it's really nice for readability

[amber fractal]

Honestly not many people. One of the others suggested it in the past to do a programming cover and I didn't do it at the time. Honestly better off in the dark ig.

[opaque sigil]

i should probably figure out why my systemd-resolved randomly stops working every couple hours hmm

why can't things just work

[amber fractal]

I hear that resolved just has that issue, but haven't done much research into it

[rigid snow]

i didn't mean it in a bad or rude way btw, i just didn't understand your message, i thought the large project had something to do with this

[clear sedge]

the 21st night of september is the night i finish my json parser

[amber fractal]

All good, no problem at all

[clear sedge]

mark my words

[real sierra]

do you remember

[amber fractal]

Superbox was orginally stressed on having to cover this one if I did it hence my comment on not stressing out anyone else.

[rigid snow]

oh i see

[amber fractal]

I'm planning on covering it myself

I have better than laptop mic so it shouldn't be too far out of place.

[rigid snow]

as far as laptop mics go macbook pros are crazy, i've tracked instruments and vocals on mine that are more than usable

it's almost a condenser mic

[opaque sigil]

apparently while it's been an occasional issue for years, 257.8 broke some stuff

[amber fractal]

I didn't opt for condenser mainly because I don't like mics close to my face, so that is a small skill issue. I at least have a dedicated mic for the job.

[rigid snow]

but condenser mics are the more sensitive ones

dynamic mics are the ones that you shove up close to your mouth

like the ones on headsets or the sm7b

or stage mics

[amber fractal]

I have a SM58, stage mic

[sage crag]

if youre passing it to a function you might get bigger speed up using __restrict__ ptr

[rigid snow]

well yeah they're dynamic precisely because their sensitivity falls off much more substantially, specifically to minimize feedback from the sound system on stage

[olive sable]

hi

[rigid snow]

[amber fractal]

hiello

[olive sable]

some upperclassmen showed me what the exam for 3D 1 expects you to make, and imma jsut pass away

its over for me

[rigid snow]

you'll be fine 3d is fun

[amber fractal]

Hand over the final exam

[real sierra]

i thought you loved 3d

[olive sable]

i do love 3D

3D 1 is a 3D moddling class tho

[rigid snow]

yeah

[real sierra]

oh

[amber fractal]

Why am I expecting 3d model a person under a time limit?

[olive sable]

you get like weeks to work on all your stuff, but this is just too much for me i think

[rigid snow]

that's not that bad

if you have weeks

[olive sable]

i dont think i can make something on that level

[amber fractal]

Honestly same, once your in the grove of things

I could pass over as many refs as you need (No not american housing :xdx:)

I do take photos for my own stuff

[tender river]

mine is better https://git.ablecorp.eu/chayleaf/hblsp/src/branch/trunk/src/json.hb

[amber fractal]

Conveniently ignoring physics, classic

@olive sable surely you got nothing to worry about

[clear sedge]

[rigid snow]

unsolicited hblang propaganda

[rigid snow]

the day has come

i am using bun as a bundler

[clear sedge]

MOTHERFUCKER

[opaque sigil]

[tender river]

[clear sedge]

DON'T YOU ME

THIS IS HELL

WHY MUST I BE CURSED IN THIS WAY

[tender river]

also i linked wrong json.hb

https://git.ablecorp.eu/chayleaf/hblsp/src/branch/trunk/src/json/de.hb

[clear sedge]

[real sierra]

sounds like the kotlin bindings are working

[clear sedge]

"pshht i only need to deal with one unicode codepoint"
motherFUCKING FUCK YOU SURROGATE PAIRS

[real sierra]

[clear sedge]

I AM IN PAIN

[stark needle]

i hate having to re learn java

i bought some course thats 9h to refresh my skills

[rigid snow]

what the hell is this bruh

[clear sedge]

the "stop thinking and let ai mansplain what a html tag is to you" button

[real sierra]

what

i would never

you can find free java courses on youtube that are way shorter, or better yet read the docs as you go for a few extra minutes

[clear sedge]

read the docs as you go

that is the way

courses are scams

[real sierra]

who needs ai when you have ragebait

[stark needle]

it was like 8$

[real sierra]

just post your code here and someone will send it back corrected to whichever programming style guide they think is best so they can get an ego win

[nocturne olive]

Who needs Java when Kotlin exists?

[clear sedge]

kotlin is ass

[nocturne olive]

Whar?

How so?

[clear sedge]

java ftw

i just like java better

[nocturne olive]

Silly

[clear sedge]

excluding the var keyword

var and auto are for PUSSIES who can't handle reading the full type as they program

[safe path]

writing dockerfiles and the endless cycle of docker build cuz nothing works first try

[tender river]

shiro you got a friend

[safe path]

i need more disk space

[real sierra]

jhava

[tender river]

and i got an enemy

[real sierra]

just dont use docker

[tender river]

[clear sedge]

just write your own docker in java

[stark needle]

I have a java interview so

[safe path]

eww java

smiles

[clear sedge]

stabs you with my knife

[stark needle]

me cause i'm gonna have a java interview

[tender river]

vanor look at this diff https://github.com/chayleaf/toknt/commit/f3effdacd08f9668cd878f33f826a88b7e166c7b

[real sierra]

just gotta know classes and generics pretty much then, and how the functions for each work

everything else pretty much works the same as C

[tender river]

love scala so far

[stark needle]

i kinda forgot c

[real sierra]

[safe path]

o scala

yoo

[stark needle]

I became a python slave

[safe path]

real programmers use haskell

[clear sedge]

i hope python dies

python is hell

i don't like my variables being able to change types to literally anything else

i like controlling my types

:(

[stark needle]

Instead of learning java i could be watching that Netflix romance anime that came out

[clear sedge]

ew romance shows

unless it's a romcom

in which case valid

[stark needle]

Idk if it's romcom

[safe path]

i made a jvm bytecode optimiser at some point

[clear sedge]

watch it and find out

[safe path]

if anything java has nailed down optimisation with the amount of stuff they do behind the scenes to make code run fast

[clear sedge]

yes

[safe path]

but i still hate the language 0/10

[clear sedge]

java is faster than what most people think

[stark needle]

Chat what's the worst that can come at a java interview

[clear sedge]

fuck you

[dry charm]

use kotlin

[stark needle]

At a medium size company

[safe path]

true kotlin is great

[clear sedge]

reflection

[tender river]

i 100% agree with vanor

[clear sedge]

fuck you too

[dry charm]

why is reflection worst, java reflection is easy

[clear sedge]

to a newbie?

[stark needle]

Frick what if something like that does come

[clear sedge]

reflection is hard

[dry charm]

to a newbie, 60% of java is hard lol

I would say it is easier to fuck up multithreading

[clear sedge]

quick tell me the difference between getField vs getDeclaredField

^ newbie person

[stark needle]

Wasn't reflection to make up new classes on the spot

or edit existing

[clear sedge]

yes yes

view and create and edit types at runtime

[stark needle]

Would that actually come at an interview tho

[dry charm]

also scanning for implementations, accessing things you are not supposed to, modify values in things, break everything, unbreak everything

[clear sedge]

reflection is godsent when modding a game

[safe path]

java made concurrency so textbook that it became the thing people teach when talking about concurrency and why structured concurrency is better

[clear sedge]

but ONLY when modding a game

[dry charm]

In a junior / intern it would only come up as in "do you know it exists"

[dry charm]

or creating internal frameworks

[clear sedge]

or that

yes

the two valid usecases

[dry charm]

reimplementing reified keyword was fun for creating dynamic Services that used type params

[stark needle]

How do i know whether "Software Development Engineer" is junior or senior or what

That's what the position is called

[dry charm]

it is specified in the job details

[stark needle]

It's not

[clear sedge]

you're probably applying for a junior position if it's not specified

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[dry charm]

it's not the position that is junior, its your knowledge + expectation from you

[dry charm]

also this

what are the expected knowledge and years?

or they want all of them

[safe path]

i wonder if expected years mean anything in today's climate

[clear sedge]

expecting 18 years of experience at 13 years old so we can pay you minimum wage

[dry charm]

it is a metric how wet your feet was with the language I guess

[dry charm]

so true

[safe path]

realistic j*b expectations

[dry charm]

you must be able to write bytecode directly and you get a sandwich for payment

[stark needle]

These are all requirements

[safe path]

oh ya @tender river did u get that job

[real sierra]

join the chessening

[clear sedge]

you must be able to make your own jvm and you get a singular headpat for payment

[dry charm]

in-depth love when that means nothing

[safe path]

i escaped by wasting another year in uni

[dry charm]

ability to ressurect from the coffin to fix the server in 80 years

[real sierra]

vanor its chess time

[safe path]

[real sierra]

billions will chess

[clear sedge]

i would never chess

[safe path]

shiro i am terrible at chess

i would be exposed

[real sierra]

im also terrible at chess its fine

[dry charm]

is neurocord now chessing

[real sierra]

you dont have to be good at chess to join the chess bot contest

[dry charm]

did you guys move on from the bot programming game

Oh chess bot context

that sounds fun

[tender river]

they said they sent my resume to the cto but picked a different candidate but they reopened the same job position a few days later

[real sierra]

yes im hosting a chess bot contest soon

[safe path]

[dry charm]

I wish I could participate, but I'm 4 months behind a project oops

[real sierra]

1 month to make a chess bot subject to some tricky restrictons

it only takes as much time as you want it to

[clear sedge]

gotta look like they're hiring for some bullshit business reason probably

[safe path]

im too busy to write a bot

[real sierra]

all the boilerplate is written already as a nice api

[clear sedge]

i'm busy reinventing the wheel

[real sierra]

so you can focus on your bot's logic

[olive sable]

ill try to participate, but i do kinda have college starting tomorrow

[safe path]

can i vibe code a bot

[tender river]

it will be a month, currently working on haskell bindings and then it will start

[dry charm]

ohh, will you use lichess or will it be custom platform?

[real sierra]

you could try lol

[clear sedge]

i'll write my chess bot in a custom json language that i'll pass through my own custom json parser

[real sierra]

will run the tournament locally using cute-chess

[dry charm]

ah I see

[stark needle]

Do you think i might be cooked

[safe path]

"hi uuh pls write me a chess bot that would demolish other people bot in chess thank u very much i love u"

is this how to prompt

[real sierra]

i like the "i love u"

[clear sedge]

give it that exact prompt

[real sierra]

wonder how much electricity that burns

[dry charm]

You miss the shots you never take. Prepare, learn. Be confident but humble. Take that W and learn at work on the go and get that job

[clear sedge]

burn their wallets

add a "thank you" afterwards

[stark needle]

Man there's 2 seniors and 1 r&d director on the friggin interview

[clear sedge]

ANOTHER "thank you" i should clarify

be super polite

[rigid snow]

i like java too but i guess i'm wrong for not liking to type out SomeProxyFactoryBuilder<CrazyGenericBecauseFuckYou<ThisTooApparently>, Uuh> before the variable declaration and not wanting to importing allat when i just want a thing once

[clear sedge]

protects you from the abotcalypse

AND it burns openai's pockets!

win win

[real sierra]

so descriptive

[safe path]

those brackets arent balanced

[real sierra]

high readability types

[safe path]

oh they are

im cooked

[clear sedge]

you are wrong, yes

i am objectively correct

[opaque sigil]

[clear sedge]

there are no opinions

my stance is the correct one

[safe path]

oh ya

did u guys see

[clear sedge]

var is asscheeks

[olive sable]

fuck you, vertical brackets ⏞⏟⏞⏟⏞⏟⏞⏟⏞⏟⏞⏟⏞⏟⏞⏟⏞⏟⏞⏟⏞⏟⏞⏟⏞⏟⏞⏟

[safe path]

kotlin has an lsp server now

[dry charm]

bro llama3.1 just gave me a chess game instead of a bot

[safe path]

[clear sedge]

what the hell is an lsp

[safe path]

aintneurway

[sage crag]

vanor

[opaque sigil]

wdym now, wasn't that a thing since forever

[olive sable]

hi konii

[opaque sigil]

or for emacs

[rigid snow]

los santos police

[olive sable]

[clear sedge]

language server?

[safe path]

not an official one

[real sierra]

📺

[opaque sigil]

oh

neato

[sage crag]

🎂

[real sierra]

[safe path]

i cant believe big corpa intellij actually listened

[clear sedge]

📺

[safe path]

shiro i think ur cake icon is too small tbh

[real sierra]

dont you dare

[clear sedge]

shiro make it your pfp

[real sierra]

[sage crag]

💧

[dry charm]

wait did they externalise the Kotlin LSP and it is now available standalone?

[fast pagoda]

billions must chess?

[real sierra]

billions must chess

[olive sable]

8 billions yes

[clear sedge]

billions

[real sierra]

my chess bot will sweep (cant beat stockfish level 0)

[clear sedge]

oh

my

god

[safe path]

https://github.com/Kotlin/kotlin-lsp

[fast pagoda]

when api

[clear sedge]

i just realised

[dry charm]

the fuck is happening to my gifs

[fast pagoda]

1998 mode

[real sierra]

soon, just waiting for haskell support

[clear sedge]

i took the wrong med chat

[safe path]

not justu i think, i see the same thing

[clear sedge]

MY JSON PARSER MUST WAIT

[sage crag]

lichess

[clear sedge]

FOR I MUST CORRECT COURSE

[sage crag]

@real sierra do lichess

[rigid snow]

moire patterns caused by dithering

[fast pagoda]

well im in a great spot, my bot is still rng only

[real sierra]

how bot play on lichess

[rigid snow]

i suppose

[sage crag]

it move and you copy

[dry charm]

https://lichess.org/api

[rigid snow]

uuh so you create an account and convert it to bot account

[sage crag]

there's that too

lichess bot account

[fast pagoda]

i was about to start dooming because i remembered we're never getting ngnl s2 but this has helped

@real sierra you starred in that show when are you making s2

[dry charm]

We got PSG S2, never loose hope

[real sierra]

the artist for the show made a vtuber and i had no context and totally thought it was a character design for s2

[fast pagoda]

:o

maybe it's an ARG tie in

[real sierra]

ok let see how good is

[clear sedge]

i'm either on a double dose of my antipsychotic or at my prescribed amount

either way

i'm ready to json

[fast pagoda]

LOCKED IN

[tender river]

just how i tested shogun showdown deepseek r1

[clear sedge]

[dry charm]

oh wait rocm got updated in nixos, no longer need to enter distrobox

[tender river]

[opaque sigil]

[fast pagoda]

if you go 1 step further you'll be the furthest from psychotic you've ever been

https://tenor.com/view/hug-lord-of-the-rings-gif-13988106

[real sierra]

untimed game

i dont actually know how long my bot thinks for if untimed

[clear sedge]

i need my antipsychotics to balance out my writing a json parser

one is psychotic

the other is not

[opaque sigil]

ah fuck

[fast pagoda]

that's standared you can actually get lithium over the counter if you tell them you're doing that

[clear sedge]

no way

[opaque sigil]

i thought i could download the nix index separately and add it to the store manually but guess not

[clear sedge]

i'm getting lithium

[fast pagoda]

ya trust just go to your local walgreens

[clear sedge]

i don't

i don't have a local walgreens

:(

[fast pagoda]

it's so over

alright how about your nearest rite aid

[clear sedge]

i don't have a local rite aid

:(

[fast pagoda]

this can't be happening

[real sierra]

still havent fixed the parent node propogation issue

[fast pagoda]

how about your friendly neighborhood boots

[real sierra]

hope bot performs ok

[clear sedge]

i don't have a friendly neighborhood boots

:(

[fast pagoda]

just jam em in there without a care

i-i think the lithium mines have closed their doors to you my friend

im so sorry

[clear sedge]

why :(

i wanted lithium :(

[real sierra]

what is it doing...

[fast pagoda]

https://tenor.com/view/spaceballs-space-balls-yawning-yawn-gif-23137633

[stark needle]

Eat the batteries

[rigid snow]

^^^ real health advice

[tender river]

pillow

[rigid snow]

they don't call them spicy for no reason

[fast pagoda]

worst lib

[clear sedge]

i have surrogate pairs working chat

[tender river]

[noble zodiac]

oh god I translated that into the wrong baito. I'm so cooked

[olive sable]

but why????

where????

im doing pragma once

why you no work???

[sage crag]

seems like something you are including isnt doing #pragma once

@olive sable run the compiler with -E

it will expand the file

[real sierra]

even i do pragma once

[sage crag]

this can let you look for the duplicate definition

[tender river]

happy birthday shiro

[real sierra]

[tender river]

cant even look at the image because internet dead

[real sierra]

age--

[sage crag]

--age

--age--

[olive sable]

like this?

[tender river]

----age----

[olive sable]

the error message is a lot shorter now

[sage crag]

[fast pagoda]

when are submissions gonna be due

[real sierra]

i-- produces an rvalue

[fast pagoda]

or do we not know

[real sierra]

can only apply -- to an lvalue

[tender river]

the images are real

[real sierra]

about a month after opening

[fast pagoda]

oh god oh fuck i can feel myself procrastinating

[tender river]

they will load any second now

[tender river]

shiro fix my internet

[fast pagoda]

surely

[sage crag]

nyum

[real sierra]

cant do, telecom here is run by monopoly

[sage crag]

shiro cant do

[tender river]

then you fix

[sage crag]

noe

[fast pagoda]

according to my internet browser discord addon your system clock is currently 2 seconds ahead of what discord thinks it should be at

[sage crag]

im changing brp for brnz

or give name suggestion

[opaque sigil]

brr

[sage crag]

brr

[fast pagoda]

braap

[sage crag]

meaning?

[tender river]

whatever

[real sierra]

subleq

[sage crag]

no

[real sierra]

token savings

[sage crag]

terrible

explode yourself

[fast pagoda]

damn

[real sierra]

[fast pagoda]

is this hate mail that i should be responding to

[sage crag]

i changed it to brn which is short for brnz which is short for branch-if-not-zero

[fast pagoda]

brainz

[real sierra]

no, hate mail for subleq is justified

[fast pagoda]

[sage crag]

then again, why do we put the r in brp and brz

it should just be bp and bz

[real sierra]

beepy and beezy

[sage crag]

beepy and beezy

i guess its because its three letters

what if i did changed it back to bra and just combined the instructions

[fast pagoda]

for mobile ui would you want a touch event to be blocking or passive you think

seems stupid to have it blocking but i am also like weeelllll

imma make it block the entire main thread and all cores of the system it's running on

[tender river]

i'm used to jump more than branch but arm uses b instead of j i think so its whatever

[real sierra]

braa

[fast pagoda]

b of j huh

[sage crag]

why did changing it to this add an entire 0x0000000000000000 to my bytecode

[real sierra]

[fast pagoda]

spite

[trim valve]

sprite

[fast pagoda]

im about to eat one of those grocery store salads

was dumping this ham into the bowl

and a bunch of ham spilled all on my mouse mat

that's wonderful

[trim valve]

why did I have to get ill

[fast pagoda]

i feel like cold ham is somehow more icky than most things i could've said

[real sierra]

watching lichess lv1 vs my bot is like

[fast pagoda]

well i needed to wash this thing anyways ig

me watching the 2 RNG bots play 270 moves

[sage crag]

so many token saved

/* brp */ op(if ((int64_t)reg_pc > 0) pc -= leb128_r)
/* brz */ op(if (reg_pc == 0) pc -= leb128_r)
``` ```c
/* bra */ op(if (!reg_pc) leb128_r; pc -= leb128_r)

its so beautiful

[fast pagoda]

brzip

[trim valve]

ok so

do I try and work on my shoddy pxls rewrite in rust

[sage crag]

ches bot

[trim valve]

or do I make a new project for no good reason

[sage crag]

[trim valve]

did the chess competition start yet

[opaque sigil]

why brp over brnz

[real sierra]

not yet, waiting on haskell bindings

[sage crag]

i removed it

[real sierra]

soon™

[sage crag]

that is old code

[trim valve]

[real sierra]

i respect not starting until the contest starts

[opaque sigil]

[trim valve]

you see

[sage crag]

ye only bra instruction now

it combine brp and brz instruction

[trim valve]

even if I wanted to start today this cold would obliterate my critical thinking skills

thus

[fast pagoda]

it is not a good day unless one uses git init at least once in a new dir when they didnt expect to

[trim valve]

pxls rewrite

[fast pagoda]

rewrites take way more outta me than starting new

[sage crag]

brp $1 :lbl -> bra $1 :lbl 0
brz $1 :lbl -> bra $1 0 :lbl

[trim valve]

i mean its kinda starting new

[fast pagoda]

fair see i should really approach it like that

[trim valve]

I have no desire to match pxls' api at this point

maybe later if I feel like burning a few brain cells

[opaque sigil]

does that actually save tokens in total

[sage crag]

dunno, gambling

havent written any long programs yet

[fast pagoda]

this token thing is going to drive me berserk

[opaque sigil]

i feel like there's no way it does

[sage crag]

its more plausible than you think

because im encoding the bytecode in 64 bit ints

and not in single bytes

[opaque sigil]

depends on how often you actually need to branch ig

[fast pagoda]

never, always make the perfect move

w/ no search

[sage crag]

oh also the bytecode integers are variable width

they are all encoded with uleb128

im gambling on those two factors

[opaque sigil]

[sage crag]

i also need to add a linking branch

brl :call $5
something like this

[trim valve]

while True:
 board = API.get_board()
 moves = board.get_moves()
 best_move = openai(f"in the following position as {...}, which move is the best? {...}\n\nlegal moves are: {...}")
 API.push(best_move)
 API.done()

[fast pagoda]

mindlessly downloading wallpapers for the last 2 hours has surely been worth it

[fast pagoda]

it's literally JUST that easy

[trim valve]

can I get special internet permissions just for that

[sage crag]

that would also mean i need a brr $5

so i can jump back to caller

[fast pagoda]

gimme 20 dollas

no wifin in the club

[sage crag]

do i even need a brnz if i have a brz

i dont think so

[fast pagoda]

subaru brz? yes you need one

but if not subaru brz then no

[opaque sigil]

i guess you can do brz $label1 $label2, where label1 would be for zero and label2 otherwise

[sage crag]

noe i dont have an accumulator machine

[opaque sigil]

but then you end up with a lot of labels

[sage crag]

register only

[real sierra]

[trim valve]

also it keeps burning a hole in my head

what kinda specs does the default pxls server demand

[real sierra]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

MY BOT DIDNT GOOGLE

oh wait no

nvm we good

[fast pagoda]

almost holy hell

[trim valve]

because I keep imagining its gonna be some stupidly beefed up server for some reason

[fast pagoda]

oh that's what that is

lol

well the neuro place clone takes like

no resources

it scales obviously depending on the connected users

most of the heavy lifting is the browser

[trim valve]

yeah, just this doesn't inspire confidence for me

[trim valve]

ig I could write a bot to test this myself

is that a purely workerers based version

[fast pagoda]

yep

[trim valve]

based

[fast pagoda]

that's what i've been suffering working on again suddenly in the last 12 hours

it's just been up for like 2 months

$0 cost so far pog

well besides the domain

[real sierra]

HOLY

this sequence of moves my bot found

[real sierra]

so this is the power of infinite depth

[fast pagoda]

the db is only 30 mb

[tender river]

pxls 2 is already in rust

[hasty snow]

Oh this channel is talking about it, nice

[trim valve]

is it anywhere on github

[fast pagoda]

yea

it's jank rn hold on lemme get a link

[hasty snow]

I'm actually about to update the readme and push the changes, the version I have there currently is 2 years old

[fast pagoda]

big fun thing i figured out is that when i was half assing some auth stuff

i left like

half of the auth chain handled clientside

and then burnt out

so that's fantastic

https://github.com/ytsodacan/neuro.place

[trim valve]

this was more aimed at chayleaf but yours sounds neat too

[fast pagoda]

oh lol

well feel free to cringe

but it is a currently live working "place clone"

[hasty snow]

https://github.com/BlankParenthesis/pxls-rs/

[fast pagoda]

interface is too big, auth is fugged up, the sidebar is bugged but it do be working

[hasty snow]

and https://github.com/BlankParenthesis/pxls-svelte for the client

[fast pagoda]

why rust when js exists

[tender river]

everyone kept shittalking the frontend and honestly i switched to pxls frontend too

[hasty snow]

because js can't get 10µs response times

[tender river]

hope it gets better later

[hasty snow]

A lot of the dev time was spend on the technical aspects of the frontend than the ui honestly, which hopefully lets more time be spent now to make it pretty

I want to experiment with a bunch of ux stuff, some of which will probably not work but I would like ot explore a bit

[tender river]

good luck

[trim valve]

ngl I didn't realise people existing in #programming other than the regulars

looks like a neat project

[fast pagoda]

it's not thaaaat slow

[trim valve]

its beena fair while since I've seen warp, damn

[hasty snow]

Settled on it after moving frameworks twice lol
Would probably change again now, but it works

[fast pagoda]

the slowest thing on the entire neuroplace site is loading the person's discord avatar lol

[hasty snow]

If you're doing client profiling like that it may well perform better than mine: I did some optimization to make rendering at least not burn things out, but not that much

Most of my work went into making the server handle high traffic

[trim valve]

also I may be misunderstanding but this still does a db commit on each pixel placed right?

[sage crag]

why is it segfaulting sometimes

[fast pagoda]

the client usually runs like 200-500 fps for me

[trim valve]

I mean fair enough but meh

[sage crag]

and wtf floating point exception?

i dont use any floating points

[trim valve]

are you doing N % 0

wait is this chess related or not

[sage crag]

erm

it segfaults if i dont debug print the registers

[hasty snow]

It sends the database changes to a thread which takes from that channel in bulk and submits them to db. With low traffic, likely that will be one at a time but as the database can't handle it they will process in bulk which is much faster. The rest of the system becomes the limit before then.
There are similar setups for getting board data and sending packets

[real sierra]

print with side effects

[trim valve]

ic

[sage crag]

int i = 0; while (i++ < 16)
    __builtin_printf("$%u: %lx (%lu)\n", i, regs[i], regs[i]);

im just commenting this out

[real sierra]

isnt regs a macro

[sage crag]

no!

[fast pagoda]

uh oh

[sage crag]

[real sierra]

are you reusing i elsewhere

[sage crag]

no

[real sierra]

[sage crag]

this is the last two lines of the program

i is not used anywhere else

[trim valve]

am I reading a different version or something because unless I'm fundamentally misunderstanding warp that doesn't seem to be happening

[tender river]

ub

[sage crag]

i must be causing UB

ye

[hasty snow]

yes, the version you are seeing is 2 years out of date. I'll update it in a little bit

[trim valve]

ah fair

[sage crag]

how am i ever getting fpop exception

[real sierra]

gdb

-ggdb3 and pray

[hasty snow]

For stats on how this performed in practice, the connor canvas hit just over 2.7k users with a 5s cooldown for each and I didn't notice any huge increases in latency. The server was maxed at 26 load average though even though it only had 16 2.0GHz vcpus so that scaling back was probably doing a lot of work. Not sure how far we could have pushed it but I suppose it will be hard to test now.

[trim valve]

apologes if I sound dense I just have very little idea whats going on

[hasty snow]

No worries, your questioning seems very resonable to me

[sage crag]

randomiser

[trim valve]

eitherway

[sage crag]

[tender river]

try ubsan

[trim valve]

I guess its sideproject time instead

[sage crag]

what in the hell is corrupting my registers

[tender river]

its me

[fast pagoda]

compiler finally said bruh these macros idk

[sage crag]

its so over

something is randomising the index

how and why

oh is it

oh i know

[fast pagoda]

fuuuuck im really gonna have to deploy a new goddamn worker backend to get a measurement that isn't in SECONDS it's so over this local is NOT ready for that rn

[sage crag]

i know i know

its because i dont have a condition that exits the vm

its just reading all the memory

[tender river]

[sage crag]

fixed segfault

[fast pagoda]

cpu time eaten entirely by printing logs to console lule

[sage crag]

now have to fix strange indexing

its funny how

C

[opaque sigil]

fixed segfault just for it to be caught before you actually get the segfault

[sage crag]

it was just an indexing issue

[sage crag]

[tender river]

[rigid snow]

BIG MISTAKE. second console log never gets called. it just doesn't. i am coming to a conclusion that bun is overhyped undercooked alpha software
at least it doesn't segfault on hello world like it did in 2022

[fast pagoda]

i use bun

i like it

it's fast

pnpm and npm are slow as fuark

yarn is dum

[opaque sigil]

i purely use it as a package manager and replacement for nodejs so i can't speak on the bundler

[rigid snow]

i said as a bundler not as a package manager

[fast pagoda]

well jokes on you because i dont know why you would use it as one but not the other HAHA

[opaque sigil]

i have a suspicion on why it wouldn't get called though

iirc they already support css imports

so the plugin might be overwritten

[trim valve]

smh

once again I have project starting paralysis

truly an incredible state

[fast pagoda]

decision paralysis from minute 1

damn

[trim valve]

smh I was enjoying writing a very minimal pxls clone until I found out it already exists

[hasty snow]

Are you talking about mine? because it's anything but minimal

[fast pagoda]

i feel like there have to be a bazillion pixel canvas clones

[real sierra]

project not fun when already done

[trim valve]

nah I was working on a tiny one because I had zero idea that people had actually written something decent

[sage crag]

do i actually need 16 registers

that's kinda excessive

i only really need 8

[hasty snow]

yeah something really small does sound appealing: I do imagine someone's had a shot at it before though

[sage crag]

then if i limit the number of instructions to 32 i can pack 1 opcode and 1 operand into a byte

[rigid snow]

that's kind of the point of this callback

After Bun's bundler has resolved a module, it needs to read the contents of the module and parse it.

The onLoad() plugin lifecycle callback allows you to modify the contents of a module before it is read and parsed by Bun.
here's one of the examples. i'm pretty sure bun supports ts imports

[trim valve]

shrug, I'd probably be better off making something to stress test a canvas or similar imo

[opaque sigil]

oh yeah then idk

[trim valve]

I don't see much point in reinventing something that already exists

[fast pagoda]

my bun begs me to please let it combine ts and js

if you just run bun it's the main examble under bundle

examble

[hasty snow]

I wrote a stress tester for this actually, though it still entirely lacks admin tools of any kind. I was thinking of implementing them into the client but I'm not sure

[fast pagoda]

it sucks

well

it's not that bad

[trim valve]

shruge

I am mostly a backend enjoyer

[fast pagoda]

but actually having the backend do anything beyond handling the grid and such has made the whole thing a lot bigger in general

[trim valve]

frontend scares me

[rigid snow]

it should

ez job security

[hasty snow]

I am coming to the same conclusion honestly, frontend isn't scary but backend stuff is more fun

optimizing the server provided much joy (when I wasn't hunting deadlocks)

[sage crag]

nurm

[trim valve]

I question how you can deadlock a pxls server but yours is probably considerably more complex

[fast pagoda]

writes

db poop

[safe path]

whats wrong with frontend

[hasty snow]

almost 100 occurences of "Rwlock"

[safe path]

there's only like 700 different ways to do 1 thing

[trim valve]

[trim valve]

and at least twice as many frameworks

[fast pagoda]

nothing, backend doesnt let you do t r a n s p a r e n c y

[safe path]

only maybe 5 different ways why event propagation can fail on a framework

[sage crag]

0x000000FF0400000E

what a program

[opaque sigil]

/* test.css */
.test {
    color: red;
}

// index.ts
import "./test.css";

console.log("Hello via Bun!");

// plugin.ts
import type { BunPlugin } from "bun";

const myPlugin: BunPlugin = {
  name: "Custom loader",
  setup(build) {
    console.log(build)
    build.onLoad({ filter: /\.css/ }, async (args) => {
        console.log(args)
    });
  },
};

await Bun.build({
    entrypoints: ["index.ts"],
    outdir: "dist",
    plugins: [myPlugin],
})

works for me

[rigid snow]

this is ugly as shit

[fast pagoda]

i have

like

3 or 4 different shitty layouts in here

[hasty snow]

This is the real pain of frontend: can never please everyone

[fast pagoda]

that ihavent bothered to change

lol

BUT

it's transparent

[tender river]

@real sierra steady progress, only 140MB left to download on a ~50kB/s connection, then i can actually write code

[rigid snow]

THAT'S THE PROBLEM

[hasty snow]

background-filter is a blessing and a curse

back in my day…

[real sierra]

[safe path]

@real sierra happy birthday

[opaque sigil]

@rigid snow what were you doing

[stiff mica]

Added embed ban role for @safe path.

[safe path]

wtf

[rigid snow]

huh wait what

[sage crag]

shiro do you prefer 0x000000FF0400000E or 0x010C010107010200, 0x000000000000FF01

[opaque sigil]

this is with 1.2.22

[sage crag]

/embedban user:196063748354473984

[real sierra]

the 2nd looks like it compresses the most in the long run

[fast pagoda]

well the backend dashboard i slapped together has NO transparency at all

[sage crag]

they are different programs

[real sierra]

oh

[fast pagoda]

and i gave it a nice green text colour for no reason

[real sierra]

idk then

[fast pagoda]

and didn't bother to align anything at all

[sage crag]

interpret it

[real sierra]

im not an interpreter

[sage crag]

program 1:
loop: bra $0 0 :loop

program 2:

ldr 2 $1
add $1 $1
shr $1 $1

[fast pagoda]

if you add a nice splash of random colour and some gradients in ur css everything looks fantastic

[trim valve]

@hasty snow if you do end up pushing the updated version, drop me a ping. I'll probably give it a peek

[fast pagoda]

graphic design is my passion

[trim valve]

gradients my behated

[real sierra]

colours bring joy to life

[hasty snow]

just about to, need to add a license to make it actually open source. Not sure between gpl and mit

[trim valve]

ah fair

idk I suck at picking

[tender river]

it wont matter for server deployments anyway

[fast pagoda]

all my interfaces end up with clown ass colours because i like to look at it

[hasty snow]

ah that is a fair point. does agpl change that?

[fast pagoda]

nope i dont think so

[tender river]

it does

[fast pagoda]

does it?

[tender river]

agpl means servers must host a link to their source code if they changed it

[trim valve]

how about making random colours on every refresh

[fast pagoda]

oooh now we're cooking

[tender river]

but note that if you accept contributions that applies to you too

[fast pagoda]

yeah that's a good use of the client's time since the rest of the interface is so blazingly fast

[tender river]

because contributions will be agpl but you wont have the copyright to them

[stiff mica]

Removed embed ban role for @safe path.

[hasty snow]

Yes, I was thinking that
I should probably actually check if the required license is specified in my contract

[safe path]

yeah be quite careful what license u pick

changing it will be an absolute pain once u have contributors

[sage crag]

https://chatgpt.com/share/68d062fd-9344-800c-b6df-c6cc8c2ff03f
shiro not getting replace by ai

[tender river]

mit/apache - default in the rust ecosystem because rust tries to be corpo friendly
gpl - works just fine but realistically not much changes from mit/apache other than people not being able to copy paste your code (with the license included) to their mit/apache projects
agpl - forces everyone (including you if you have contributors) to publish any changes they make to whoever uses the canvas

[sage crag]

3: cp (reg_pc = reg_pc) [degenerate copy]

rude

[fast pagoda]

licensing is so silly because even with agplv3 you can't prevent commercial use and they dont even have to open source it if they don't modify your code

which is very annoying

that was the holdup i had with agpl not the network thing

[tender river]

i mean yeah allowing commercial use is the entire point of open source????

[sage crag]

claude also failed

[fast pagoda]

no >:( i don wanna

[tender river]

then you dont want open source

[rigid snow]

WAIT i think i figured it out, i'm doing this

import index from "./index.html";
```which bundles it in place, before loading the plugin
```ts
Bun.plugin(myPlugin)
```like this

[hasty snow]

Think I'll just do MIT

[fast pagoda]

yeah that was actually the conclusion i came to for anything that matters was that personally i would not be particularly happy with anything less than lcopyleft w/o commercial use

i dunno something about if i put something out there and then someone else makes money off it for nothing irritates me

but then again i put mit on like everything i end up putting out anyways

[opaque sigil]

oh yeah, if you import the html that makes sense it doesn't load the css one

[fast pagoda]

because i dont make anything useful kekekeke

[rigid snow]

if you want to prevent commercial use but still be kinda open source ish there's this hot new thing called "fair source"

[sage crag]

deep seek still thinking about what the bytecode does

[tender river]

it makes sense that i can use vim or linux at my job, or that artists can sell art they made using krita

[sage crag]

it is completely wrong and decided to try again in BE

[tender river]

if you dont want that ye no open source

[rigid snow]

as far as i understand the licenses are basically the same as foss ones but they explicitly disallow usage for building a competing product

[fast pagoda]

i guess i really would just want to prevent something like
let's say i just put out copyparty
and it's awesome

i would not want someone else just bundling that up and selling it b2b to clueless people without any issue

[tender river]

not everyone has the hardware or technical skills, there are many services that host services for you

[fast pagoda]

something like using an editor in your work is not what i would be trying to prevent even tho yea that's commercial use technically as well

[sage crag]

are you stupid

[fast pagoda]

well right but id just be salty if i saw some tech bros raise 20 gazillion dollars in seed funding literally just downloading and slapping my shit on some other people's systems

[real sierra]

i finally finished the game of my bot vs lichess lv1

[sage crag]

ldr 2 $1
cp $1 $2
ldr 10 $3

[sage crag]

ye how do

[fast pagoda]

i dont really care what they use it for that's why i even released it in the first place, as long as they dont just straight up sell it themselves when i have it out for free ya know

[real sierra]

[sage crag]

my lord

[fast pagoda]

draw

[real sierra]

make no mistake it was a guaranteed win for my bot

but it decided to draw for

some reason

[fast pagoda]

i feel as though the spirit of your bot

is just neutral

[sage crag]

is it possible for a human to lose to that bot

[fast pagoda]

https://tenor.com/view/futurama-neutral-gif-8034848

[real sierra]

sure, just set the time per side to 1 minute

[fast pagoda]

start game

see less than 1 min on the clock

forfeit

shirobot 90000

[real sierra]

also my bot is way better

[rigid snow]

Fair Source is software that:

1. is publicly available to read;
2. allows use, modification, and redistribution with minimal restrictions to protect the producer’s business model; and
3. undergoes delayed Open Source publication (DOSP).
   the last one basically means that the code will eventually become open source (the license converts), be it after a set time passes, the producer goes out of business etc.

[real sierra]

look how many fewer mistakes and blunders

it just has fewer best moves

[tender river]

ye dont see your point

[opaque sigil]

SSPL would kind of prevent that i guess, since it requires pretty much everything to be made available iirc

[fast pagoda]

yeah sspl was what i had arrived at

[fast pagoda]

perfectly valid, probably a lot more valid than my feelings on it, mine are literally borne entirely of fomo jealousy basically lol

[opaque sigil]

there's also BSL for giving yourself a headstart but that's a different thing ig

[rigid snow]

if the thing you're building is worth that much why don't YOU sell it

[hasty snow]

The code for the server is live. Now to do the same for the client

[fast pagoda]

well that's why i havent actually run into this issue lmao

[clear sedge]

1 is read as 49

how did i fuck this up

so badly

it's the ASCII VALUE?? what in sleep deprivation is going on

[fast pagoda]

because like i said i never release things that would be valuable into ze public (not that i make them in the first place mind you)

but like if i made something crazy, released it free because i felt like it would be a useful thing for people, to use, for free and how they wish (barring selling it themselves), i would just be peeved if i woke up and saw that some greaseball was out there making a bunch of money off of people being ignorant that it's out there for free

but then again if it's out there free why worry because people that aren't ignorant of it would never pay for it, but that's what you get when you let emotion influence how you handle things

[clear sedge]

god help me

[opaque sigil]

time to pull out the good ol debugger

[clear sedge]

i might be a small bit silly

[fast pagoda]

i wish i could have the full foss mindset and ive been coming around to it over time it still just bugs me is all

[tender river]

- '0'

[fast pagoda]

is it fully custom doe

[tender river]

[fast pagoda]

huh

[opaque sigil]

graphql moment

[fast pagoda]

lmao

[clear sedge]

i did it

i can read 1

[clear sedge]

yes

[tender river]

now read 10

[fast pagoda]

200 error is impressive

[tender river]

[opaque sigil]

it's not 1.000000 though it's 1

[fast pagoda]

ive never seen that before in my life ngl

[clear sedge]

heh

[fast pagoda]

let's goooo

and no stinky deprecated c++ locales

[sage crag]

nyanleaf did it first

[clear sedge]

[real sierra]

wtf

Problem: Success

[fast pagoda]

yeah that one is still confusing me

[tender river]

it was out of context

[sage crag]

why do we even need programming languages

we should just write assembler

[tender river]

asm is a language

[sage crag]

asm is not a programming language its a translation layer

[tender river]

[fast pagoda]

well there's a crisp gh issue on nixos from 2019 about curl <= 7.65.1 doing that when a download took too long

surely that's probably still somehow hitting u 6 years later

[tender river]

no its just my internet being bad

[fast pagoda]

oh is it the 4kbps thing again

i start going berserk if i have any connection disruption for more than like a minute

you're stronger than me

[tender river]

at least ping is good now

[clear sedge]

we mathin

[fast pagoda]

manually test every possible number

[clear sedge]

no

:(

[fast pagoda]

but it wouldnt take very long

i need to know if it works for .00000000000000023479

but only after it sequentially counted there by subtracting from 10

increments of .00000000000000000001

[clear sedge]

idk how i got 117

i love math

[fast pagoda]

uint8 cant represent that number dont think

obv

[opaque sigil]

ah the joys of parsing floats

[fast pagoda]

idk what exactly your thing is currently doing tho

[rigid snow]

the issue was that i had to add the plugin to bunfig.toml btw since i was directly importing the html file and that ignores any and all loaded pluguns for some reason

[opaque sigil]

good to know

[fast pagoda]

bunfig.toml is something i've never heard of so i will put that in the memory banks in case i need to make a bun plugin

[rigid snow]

you know what else is good to know? knowing to not use bun as a bundler

[fast pagoda]

lmao*

[opaque sigil]

how else am i going to include zig in my ts project

[fast pagoda]

what do you prefer to use? i honestly randomly choose usually the thing that is most responsive for things like this unless there's a specific feature i need

[crystal glacier]

guys my code is working and failing wtf did i do to hurt its feelings

[clear sedge]

guys i got a different number

[quasi furnace]

is anyone able to help me with a c++ assignment, idrk what the teacher is asking for

[clear sedge]

not the right different number

but a different number

[rigid snow]

can whatever compiler chain they embed do wasm

[fast pagoda]

change is good

[opaque sigil]

(i was just joking i don't actually want to do that)

but yeah they do it's just llvm

[obsidian mantle]

What are these numbers about