programming

[obsidian mantle]

I thought you said you want to check that manually

[real sierra]

whats sbt

[tender river]

to build a jar do sbt assembly

[tender river]

shiro build tool

[real sierra]

[obsidian mantle]

Can it just output max length string with token counter so you see it right away

[real sierra]

can i just apt install it

[tender river]

maybe

[real sierra]

nope

half of my storage on this vm is build tools

[balmy nacelle]

i decided to throw random values in until it feels nice

[tender river]

echo "deb https://repo.scala-sbt.org/scalasbt/debian all main" | sudo tee /etc/apt/sources.list.d/sbt.list
echo "deb https://repo.scala-sbt.org/scalasbt/debian /" | sudo tee /etc/apt/sources.list.d/sbt_old.list
curl -sL "https://keyserver.ubuntu.com/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x2EE0EA64E40A89B84B2DF73499E82A75642AC823" | sudo tee /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/sbt.asc
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install sbt

ip grabber

[real sierra]

holy ip grabber

but alas i dont have deb either

[tender river]

i just use nix where its packaged

[tender river]

rpm

curl -L https://www.scala-sbt.org/sbt-rpm.repo > sbt-rpm.repo
sudo mv sbt-rpm.repo /etc/yum.repos.d/
sudo yum install sbt

[real sierra]

no yum

ubuntu fork

[tender river]

why wouldnt it have apt-get

[real sierra]

it does have apt get

[tender river]

then run this

[real sierra]

doesnt have deb

[tender river]

what do you even mean by that

[real sierra]

am i reading this wrong

[tender river]

yes

[real sierra]

oh right

my java is just sitting in a folder

i dont actually know how to make it globally callable

[tender river]

easiest way is adding export PATH="$PATH:/opt/java/bin"

to ~/.bashrc

[real sierra]

still doesnt work

do i need to reload it or something

[tender river]

restart shell

[fast pagoda]

source ~/.bashrc

assuming ur in bash shell

[real sierra]

ty

[fast pagoda]

yeah im something of a leet hax0r myself (i fuck with my ~/.zshrc and reload it constantly)

[tender river]

every morning i go to sleep

[real sierra]

it was very unhappy

[tender river]

works on github ci

[fast pagoda]

every morning i break my legs

every afternoon i break my arms

at night, i lie awake in agony until the heart attacks put me to sleep

[tender river]

hi t

[stray dragon]

how

hi chayleaf

[fast pagoda]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ko0J8Ft_bxg

[tender river]

[fast pagoda]

chay audits all reactions

[real sierra]

user error

right

now that i have the new token counter

lemme see if theres anything else i need to do before contest open

i need to add the rust api docs

[tender river]

haskell bindings

[real sierra]

wait

i was supposed to write those?

[tender river]

me

[real sierra]

o

[tender river]

but you made me write token counter

it's all your fault shiro

[real sierra]

you're the only one waiting on them so i can start contest without surely

[tender river]

[real sierra]

just like scrub hasnt submitted the C# bindings yet

[tender river]

no i want people to have the option from the start

[obsidian mantle]

If you add "who am i" in the end you get some kindof riddle

[tender river]

it's not really fair otherwise imo, timeline wise

[fast pagoda]

this emote is unreasonably kawaii

[real sierra]

i mean

i kinda chose a month timeline to be more than enough time

i think people will spend far less time on the contest than a month

[fast pagoda]

when was this decided

[tender river]

some people took multiple months on sebastian lague's contest

[real sierra]

well if the haskell bindings wont take long

[tender river]

my point is i don't feel the need to rush it

[real sierra]

sure but

there will guaranteed be requests for new languages after the contest starts either way

no matter how long i push it back

some people just wont hear about the contest until it starts, and then request something

so idk how much delaying it really helps

[tender river]

it helps me

[real sierra]

i know that

[obsidian mantle]

Announce it and give people couple of days to submit languages they want
Give away api after that and start 1month countdown

[tender river]

it wont help those who dont know about it yet so but that cant be helped

[tender river]

doesnt work like that

you have to have the api to create language bindings

[obsidian mantle]

Oh they are supposed to make it themselves

I thought you volunteered to make all of that

For some reason

[silent cloak]

My beloved language

[real sierra]

nono lol

i made the C and python bindings

but i dont know rust or haskell or C#

so i obviously cant make bindings for those

[obsidian mantle]

How does it even work
Dont you just need a list of pointers for every function and that's it?
This sounds like 5 min problem

[tender river]

anyway people who learn about the contest after it starts can't complain but i can

[silent cloak]

U don't know C#?

[real sierra]

ok you know what

i thought about it for a min

[silent cloak]

Ask Byter for rust

[real sierra]

and i did already agree to give you the repo ahead of time for the purpose of making haskell bindings

so i guess its only fair

but also if anyone asks for a timeline on the contest starting, im pointing them at you

[tender river]

[silent cloak]

The one Haskell user left using the bindings

[real sierra]

i dont think it'll take you long

[obsidian mantle]

when does it start

[real sierra]

i made the python bindings quickly and im terrible at this stuff

[silent cloak]

Is this a neuro contest

[tender river]

before 2100

[real sierra]

chess bot contest

[silent cloak]

Whats the goal

[real sierra]

@trim valve do you have the rust api hosted somewhere?

would like to link it

[obsidian mantle]

Evil, do the announcement

[real sierra]

create the strongest chess bot in under 1025 tokens

[silent cloak]

Interesting

[real sierra]

my submission is currently 1050 tokens

need shrink

[silent cloak]

Idk if minifiers exist for C

[real sierra]

minifiers wont help with token count

thats the point of using token count instead of just length or char count

[silent cloak]

Sounds like a cool challenge

[real sierra]

its tricky

[silent cloak]

Im still working on my anti chess bot idea

[real sierra]

trying to compress so much logic into a tiny space

[silent cloak]

Im doing university work atm

[tender river]

erf
i checked antlr/grammars-v4, and the only useful languages to add would be:

• swift
• smalltalk
• scala
• java
• any lisp
• prolog (questionable choice)
• pascal
• objective c
• lua
• kotlin
• javascript
• java
• go
• fortran
• erlang
• elixir
• cobol
• ada

other ones would have to have a custom tokenizer impl (not that hard but more effort than usual)

[real sierra]

ive been trying to figure out if theres a library in C that imports stdlib and stdbool so i can eliminate one of the imports

[real sierra]

superbox wanted kotlin

if it were supported they'd be on board to participate i think

[tender river]

if it does that would be platform specific

you can use _Bool tho

(deprecated in c23)

[real sierra]

i'm compiling these with c23

[silent cloak]

Nowhere better to look than hardware / embedded software tbh

[tender river]

just a deprecation surely its fine

[real sierra]

literally almost everything is macros

i dont know what to do anymore

[silent cloak]

Is it open source

[real sierra]

my bot? no

the chess api the contest sits on top of? it will be once the contest opens

[silent cloak]

U can always see how ur compiler handles code changes and just manually implement them

[real sierra]

wouldnt that make my code bigger

[silent cloak]

If the compiler changes something to be smaller then implement it yourself

[real sierra]

the token counter runs on the source code, not compiled code

[real sierra]

i am super doubtful the compiler makes my code smaller

[tender river]

i have 2 projects i've committed to for other people, 2 phd-level projects i'm dedicated to myself and associated reading, manga scanlation project, aaaaaaaaa how do i get time (don't say use discord less)

[silent cloak]

It does at times

Especially with branching

[real sierra]

dont have to support every language people ask for

i never made any guarantees

up to your availability is fine

[olive sable]

Its time for chayleaf mitosis

[tender river]

no tokenizer is done as far as i'm concerned

[real sierra]

[silent cloak]

Tbh when it comes to algorithms psudeocode is actually useful for taking a step back and trying to optimize

[real sierra]

so is it the haskell bindings worrying you

[tender river]

mhm and other stuff

[real sierra]

or do you think you wont be able to write a bot even if you make the bindings

[tender river]

i'll see what i can do

a month is a long time

[silent cloak]

Damn that's a while

[real sierra]

yeah i mean

my bot is only 250 ish lines right now

50 of which are defines and structs

it doesnt take long to get that much code down

but i respect you're a busy person

[silent cloak]

I think u should look at the optimization steps used in some compilers to see if there is anything u can use as reference

[real sierra]

i dont think there is

i dont need machine code

it needs to still be C

ive already looked at the compiler builtins to eliminate libraries

and i dont think much of this can be inlined with a reduction of tokens

[silent cloak]

I mean how it handles eliminating parts of the code

[tender river]

you put too much faith in compilers

[silent cloak]

You put too little

[tender river]

i literally write them

[silent cloak]

Yeah but good ones

[tender river]

sorry i don't take compiler opinions from c# devs

[real sierra]

war

[silent cloak]

I work in more than just C#

[tender river]

like c# = c# dev

simple as

[hollow spruce]

https://share.google/aimode/prPfU9amI6aBZwFvH

[silent cloak]

Idk pal if u can write a better compiler than the existing ones u can be really rich

[tender river]

you really cant

theres not much money in compiler writing

most compilers are written by a single person for a single person

and people routinely make better compilers for specific tasks through specialization

[silent cloak]

Well duh because at that point they might as well be writing asm for such cases

[tender river]

nope

[silent cloak]

Me writing a compiler to compile a single program

Rust mindset

[tender river]

thats something i do quite often

[silent cloak]

Dodging asm like rain drops

[real sierra]

1048 tokens

[obsidian mantle]

But if everything is macros
Shouldnt you optimise the macros

[real sierra]

i am

i have macros of macros

ive looked through to see if any were bad but no

they all gain tokens

and they're all in use somewhere

[tender river]

to clarify i do take compiler opinions from people who work on roslyn

roslyn's great

[real sierra]

dont know what shrink

maybe need make bot worse

[obsidian mantle]

Because of 24 tokens

[real sierra]

because of 24 tokens

i could simplify the material eval function

that might save tokens

i wonder what the unmacro'd size of this is

is there any way to run the preprocessor macros

[faint sandal]

[faint sandal]

they LOOKED UP THEIR IRL NAMES

[real sierra]

1042 tokens

i really dont know how to shrink this further

#define cbclose_return_rv_sc_cbclose_void } return_rv_sc } void

[obsidian mantle]

It must have something big

[real sierra]

we're getting REALLY interesting now

it works

1037 tokens

13 more

but how...

[fast pagoda]

just start deleting lines and see if it still compiles/works

blindfolded

[obsidian mantle]

Really hard to guess what can be shrunk when you dont see the code
It sounds exciting cant wait to start

[fast pagoda]

set up a python referee for legal moves and now have a working shitty chess """"api"""" to test games

both the test bot and my actual bot are currently rng lords

made stockfish analyze the rng games

he's on the edge of his seat for the last 100 moves of this 200 move game of just nothing happening while white randomly runs around

he did in fact have 3 fingies but at first i thought the ai was just being savage as fuk looking at this game of his

like damn i know he lost but you dont need to go that far

[obsidian mantle]

[fast pagoda]

paranoid, decide to check if the stupid shai halud thing got into any packages ive built with any other node crap i was building

500+ packages are on the list

jesus christ

[olive sable]

shiro did you watch the new dr stone episode?

[rigid snow]

bun:ffi exists, maybe just not use node then?

import { dlopen, FFIType, suffix } from "bun:ffi";
const { i32 } = FFIType;

const path = `libadd.${suffix}`;

const lib = dlopen(path, {
  add: {
    args: [i32, i32],
    returns: i32,
  },
});

console.log(lib.symbols.add(1, 2));

like this is so much nicer than writing miles of v8 fuckery in cpp

claims to be way faster too

[trim valve]

https://github.com/owobred/chess-competition-rust-bindings

[rigid snow]

only problem is you can’t easily make stuff async like you can in node with direct libuv access, idk if that’s necessarily needed

[trim valve]

there's still a few usability things but this is mostly finished

tl;dr gonna try and see if I can make zercopy play nicely with my structs

[rigid snow]

i think it is since green threads and processing between moves is explicitly allowed, getting the board should be an async function

or at least i think it was allowed

[nocturne olive]

Still no Kotlin token counter I assume

[hollow spruce]

Token limit

[trim valve]

I think we're a bit closer to it now?

[hollow spruce]

Every new day every Chrome bugs update

[trim valve]

#programming message yeah it can be added at some point

[nocturne olive]

It would be cool

Otherwise I can't really chess bot with any reasonable amount of effort for such silliness

[trim valve]

I think its allowed as long as it doesn't bring in actual threads?
though I can't really see a way that the C binding wouldn't have to block in a single threaded scenario

[rigid snow]

right that's what i thought

libuv does async io by polling

i mean epoll specifically, not blocking

file io is a thread pool still

[obsidian mantle]

How does it work
If you are using one thread, whats the point of multithreading?

Oh i mean if you are using one core

Why would we interrupt whatever is happening in its head

Its alright when we have some interface which gives commands in random times, but here we have "wakeup -> receive go command -> make decision -> return decision -> sleep"

[rigid snow]

yeah as far as i understand getting the board or something else is blocking until your move

no way to make a blocking function nonblocking without offloading to a separate thread

and any threads are off-limits

[obsidian mantle]

Its supposed to freeze the bot out of your turn
And when turn starts you already received a command to go so you are not waiting for any input

At least shiro said its not allowed to think when it isnt your turn
Because tournaments go like that

[rigid snow]

aha

right then it's not an issue

but still doing node bindings is probably a good idea?

[obsidian mantle]

I dont know what that is

[rigid snow]

node js

[obsidian mantle]

Oh

[opaque sigil]

node bindings are a pita, just throw bun ffi at it

[obsidian mantle]

I dont know it anyway

[silent cloak]

brainfuck bindings

[rigid snow]

semicolon would approve

[stark needle]

my interviewer for the company i don't want but have to interview for just left the room for a personal call and was like "please don't disconnect it's not like i'm not coming back"😭

[rigid snow]

is this right now

[stark needle]

yes

[rigid snow]

go back to your interview

[stark needle]

it's on teams

bros still not back

[opaque sigil]

things happen

[silent cloak]

start yelling into the mic

[scarlet arch]

Not considering your time as valuable is such a dick move

[stark needle]

bro had left me hanging for 8 mins

[scarlet arch]

[clear sedge]

does it make me a dick if i'm not considering my own time as valuable? (currently writing my own json parser in c++ :3)

[clear sedge]

call me later ❌
ok i'm leaving my possible future employee on hold

[obsidian mantle]

If you learn anything in the process it might be worth

[scarlet arch]

Nah, that's yours to choose over

[clear sedge]

there is nothing to learn

[obsidian mantle]

Then you must enjoy it

Whats your motivation otherwise

[clear sedge]

i am merely doing this because i don't want a billion dependencies

[obsidian mantle]

Seee

Useful!

Not a waste if there is good reason

[clear sedge]

then i'll be using my json parser for a gltf parser

[stark needle]

wasn't json.h a single header

[rigid snow]

having a dependency you can upgrade? nah, you'll write your own that's worse and maintain that yourself

[obsidian mantle]

[clear sedge]

dependencies are for pussies

except sdl

i don't wanna deal with window management

[silent cloak]

write it in a dead language that someone has to pay a lot to get forked in a decade

[clear sedge]

or opengl context creation

[stark needle]

shiro chess bot mindset

[clear sedge]

cobol

[silent cloak]

my mother knows it somehow still

[clear sedge]

yo momma so old she still knows cobol

[silent cloak]

she doesnt look a day over extinct

[hollow spruce]

Compute unit is ending "hell no

I need buy again

[warped narwhal]

[amber fractal]

bwa

today seems to be working on more NN stuff. Probably continuing to build out the test suite for the latest two modules.

If I ever want to try my hand at the chess bot tournament I do need this to work.

[hidden ravine]

@true hemlock bro fix wifi pls

[amber fractal]

the bot is demanding it's owner

One day QuackFM one day

[sage crag]

elvyn speaking through quackfm

[nocturne olive]

SoSilly

[amber fractal]

Strike this, I'll need to bring a tests dep because console logging is not the best option honestly.

[hollow spruce]

Bot + user 🤣

[rigid snow]

🤣

[amber fractal]

If we had a bot account we'd never get funny moments like this

[rigid snow]

why not

[hollow spruce]

Self bot will get caught

[rigid snow]

discord tos so scary

i am shakinmg and quiveriung

[hollow spruce]

My one account will screwed up

Chrome patch cvs patch

[amber fractal]

It's been awhile. Time to see if discord py is as bad as I remember.

I still hear complaints from time to time but need to see that for myself.

[opaque sigil]

the api hasn't really changed at all but it's actually somewhat maintained again

not like a couple years ago where it was basically on life support for a while

[amber fractal]

Yeah, I swapped off to another library and just never looked back.

Honestly, still don't have much reason to

[opaque sigil]

same, rewrote it in typescript and now i'm chilling

though i'll never not get annoyed at the inheritance monstrosity that is discord.js when i need to look at it

[amber fractal]

I'm still on python, just not discord.py anymore

moved to something a bit more sensible

Despite not using discord.py, having functional docs with a lot of normally extensions bundled in is nice. I don't use the native hotloading as much as I should be tbh.

[opaque sigil]

https://lore.kernel.org/git/[e-mail]/ looks like rust is slowly making its way into git

[real sierra]

good morning

holy I was up late

[hollow spruce]

Good night 🌆
How is u re night tho

[nocturne olive]

So somehow Discord was takiing up 15GB of my memory

[opaque sigil]

impressive

[clear sedge]

least wasteful chromium embedded framework using app:

[nocturne olive]

I wonder where it leaks the memory, because the process usage is reported as like 6GB but restarting the app frees 15GB

[clear sedge]

if i had to guess, someone fucked up with some voice call handling logic or web socket bs

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[hollow spruce]

Model2.py :

import random

arr = None

try:
import torch
arr = torch.rand(9)
print("Using torch:", arr)

except ImportError:
try:
import numpy as np
arr = np.random.rand(9)
print("Using numpy:", arr)

except ImportError:
    arr = [random.random() for _ in range(9)]
    print("Using pure Python:", arr)

Im lazy i don't need
Import Numpy every change so
I make fall back script that it change depending on model

[sage crag]

this seems useless

[clear sedge]

using import errors that way...

is there no better way to check if a package exists??

[hollow spruce]

import model2.py
Torch.rand(9)

test

ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'model2.py'; 'model2' is not a package

I forgot again' make package

[midnight sigil]

most cursed thing ever

also you don't import py files with import name.py

you just do import name

or import .name, depending on your environment

[midnight sigil]

just don't

if my client is so dumb that he/she/they can't see the fucking requirements.txt, I'm not letting them run my scripts

[hollow spruce]

My script is working that fine

[midnight sigil]

[clear sedge]

honestly fair

[olive sable]

[hollow spruce]

I will added more tools in (model2.py) in such as tension flow etc packages

[rigid snow]

good work apple, i airdrop a file to my phone and it disappears. shows as finished but nowhere to be found

[opaque sigil]

That is how you're supposed to do it

[rigid snow]

nice software

[opaque sigil]

Nice

[river copper]

Hey can one of you that are good at programming and scripting AI stuff message me?

[hollow spruce]

F my earphones are not use able

Well I deleted again my .venv

[clear sedge]

impostor!

[hollow spruce]

Why

[opaque sigil]

[hollow spruce]

My pc crash again

[real sierra]

everyone here thinks they're good at programming and AI

mint

[rigid snow]

import importlib
try:
    importlib.import_module('torch')
except ImportError:
    import pip
    pip._internal.main(['install', 'torch'])
finally:
    globals()['torch'] = importlib.import_module('torch')

arr = torch.rand(9)
print("Using torch:", arr)

is this more useful

[sage crag]

absolutely not

[real sierra]

konii

can I change channel on your tv

[sage crag]

[real sierra]

wait actually what are the specs of the tv

[sage crag]

480p 1hz

[real sierra]

1hz

[rigid snow]

are you overclockable

[olive sable]

coffee

[real sierra]

sam

do you think konii is simd

I think konii would make an excellent edge computing node

we should write some benchmarks

[trim valve]

can I submit konii as my chess bot

[real sierra]

if konii was somehow at my computer then that wouldn't break any rules I guess

agh it's too late to be worth going to class

I've missed 25% already

[olive sable]

konii is an lcd tv so in theory many pixels get processed in parallel

[real sierra]

hey question

how often can I get unexplained chest pains before I should worry

[opaque sigil]

My rule of thumb is if it happens more than a handful of times a week there's probably something wrong

[noble zodiac]

however often your doctor said its ok

[dapper kernel]

How often do you want to hear “happy birthday Shiro!”?

[real sierra]

my brain filters it out at this point

no more surprising an occurrence than the sky being blue

[dapper kernel]

You should see a doctor

[real sierra]

I should see a doctor

[dapper kernel]

Yes you should

[real sierra]

I went recently and they just never sent me the results

[dapper kernel]

U should contact them

[real sierra]

lmao good luck contacting the doctor here

it was only due to seeing the nurse's surprised reaction at my blood pressure that I decided to test that myself

my blood pressure is about as high as you can be and still be safe, but my pulse is as low as you can be and still be safe

not really sure what that entails

[dapper kernel]

That doesn’t sound healthy

[real sierra]

I'm kinda inclined to agree

[dapper kernel]

(If u went on reddit u might have an answer)

[dapper kernel]

I hope to hear good answers not bad ones

Take care of yourself

[real sierra]

you would catch me dead before getting medical advice from Reddit

actually

you would catch me dead shortly after getting medical advice from Reddit

[dapper kernel]

Lol i’ve seen people post pics and reddit doctors telling them they have cancer

[dapper kernel]

Usually it’s go see [this] doctor

[rigid snow]

what the fuck

this is creepy

i got chest pain around the time you sent that

[real sierra]

spell of chest pain

[uneven pulsar]

anyone else about to do a win11 clean install to avoid the pain of some update that's totally gonna break

[real sierra]

nah

not worth the effort

[uneven pulsar]

i hope the 9/2 sophia script is ready

[real sierra]

if it breaks it breaks

[uneven pulsar]

to me it's like, a time of the year

i backup all the photos from my phone, export MAL stuff, update my offline contact lists, important game saves folder, all that jazz

find the external hdd, slam all of that there, also put some important stuff on a usb stick

also clean registry = speed woosh woosh

[real sierra]

I export nothing

everything is cloud nowadays anyway

[uneven pulsar]

i'm low key prepping for the day when google decides i'm not me

and never lets me in again, breaking most 2fa i have anywhere else

i've seen one too many people locked out of their own cloud backups and online identity, learning the hard way that corpo does in fact not care

[real sierra]

never seen this happen to anyone but I believe you that it can

[opaque sigil]

I should probably look into backups on linux

On windows I just did daily snapshots of the boot drive, good enough

[uneven pulsar]

losing your phone is almost a guaranteed rip

in an ideal case you have a device at home that is "the usual device" and things will maybe let you change your phone number / turn off 2fa from there

but generally the approach is
"oh hey you lost that phone with google authenticator on it? sure we can turn that off, just send us the code from google authenticator on the phone you lost"

[opaque sigil]

Don't use Google authenticator, problem partially solved

[uneven pulsar]

that was the example

don't use 2fa

[opaque sigil]

Well no

[uneven pulsar]

unless all factors have a customer service that are forced by law to give you access if you show a govt id
or aren't mandatory

[opaque sigil]

Do use 2fa

[uneven pulsar]

this is honestly bad advice unless you're also providing the recovery method for stolen phone

for example SMS-based 2fa is fine as long as you can go to the phone provider and be like "hey lost my phone, give me a new SIM with my old number"

authenticator-like stuff is fine if you have a pool of 2-3 devices that all can single-handedly pass every challenge

single point of failure 2fa is a bad idea

[real sierra]

SMS 2fa is not fine

sim swapping is a disaster

[opaque sigil]

Well duh

[uneven pulsar]

generally anything that you can only do from a phone and not from a computer is bad 2fa

[real sierra]

hardware tokens seem like a good way to do things

you can plug them into any device

and the keys themselves have a low failure rate ideally

[opaque sigil]

just make sure to get 2 please

[uneven pulsar]

as long as they're not a single point of failure

[real sierra]

yeah its easy to get multiple of a hardware key too

[opaque sigil]

There are also plenty of authenticators that support multiple devices unlike Google's

[real sierra]

i use microsoft authenticator

[uneven pulsar]

it's weird how google manages to be the one who fucks this specific thing up

it seems like such a "microsoft can't figure this one out" issue

but the roles reversed anyway

[opaque sigil]

I think you can actually make it work but you're still bound to phones/emulators unless they changed it (maybe they did I don't use it)

[obsidian mantle]

i get random chest pains too but im a smoker
from what i know it usually is just some nerve being twisted or smth, not dangerous
if it doesnt persist then it should be fine

also im going to install clean win11 for the first time tomorrow on my new pc i hope it doesnt break if there was no update

[uneven pulsar]

do you want to use a local account?

[obsidian mantle]

is there no choice

offline install

[uneven pulsar]

also if you're not using ethernet, find drivers for wifi and throw them on the usb stick

[uneven pulsar]

since 24h2 it just tells you to get internet

[obsidian mantle]

no way 💀

alright then

[uneven pulsar]

🔹 Command Prompt Trick
On the setup screen, press Shift + F10 to open Command Prompt
Type: start ms-cxh:localonly
This launches a hidden flow that lets you create a local account without needing a Microsoft login

you can stil ltry this tho

[obsidian mantle]

gotta get used with times and learn win11 interface at some point
i'll have win10 on my work laptop and win11 at home. sounds nice

[obsidian mantle]

aalright i'll try

[uneven pulsar]

i just switch whenever they release a new one tbh
it's less of a pain the more you do it

people who always stick to the old one always switch too, just with extra pain

[obsidian mantle]

i remember when i didnt want to switch xp for 7
it was so much better, big mistake

[uneven pulsar]

but i can understand that hardware can be an issue

my internal ranking is XP > 7 > 10 > 8.1 > 11 > 8 > vista

[rigid snow]

lil bro thinks its quantum healing device can revive 💔 fuck you mean "i apologize for the error"

[obsidian mantle]

xp top 1 huh
i have couple of VMs with it for work, its really outdated

[uneven pulsar]

not today, obviously

[obsidian mantle]

oh

yeah then its fair

[uneven pulsar]

but it was the peak windows experience

i also used 95 98se 2000 and me but i was too little to have reliable grading

[obsidian mantle]

i got my first pc in 2007 and started with xp
and i think there was some app in university that required msdos

thats all my experience with old windows

oh yeah and some controllers we work with run on debian
holy moly its so bad

[uneven pulsar]

one does not put debian and bad in the same sentence

[obsidian mantle]

i dont know what kind of debian they are using there but its incredibly bad

[uneven pulsar]

it could always be more polished and less stable outdated but honestly debian is meant to be like
the slackware of 2005+
you just install it on something and then it runs there for 15 years while everyone forgot

at my previous company they ran the call center on debian 4 when debian 9 was out

there's some guy who made a server in his garage and put all the touhou OST on it in idk 2011 (400gb of mp3) and slapped some shockwave flash player on top. it runs on the same debian still

[obsidian mantle]

400gb of mp3?
i thought touhou is some game
makes no sense

yeah it is

how can it be 400gb in mp3

[uneven pulsar]

it's like 20 games but it has a culture of people who make fan covers of its music

[obsidian mantle]

oh

[uneven pulsar]

cause the actual music is some god awful midi

also zun is chill about copyright and so are the fans, so it was always easy and fun to just make covers and put them all over the place

see that lenny in there

[clear sedge]

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[real sierra]

saw 24h2 and tried to figure out what chess move that was

its over for me

[uneven pulsar]

they call it "the cortana sacrifice gambit"

in other news, i'm parting ways with VLC

with respect and fond memories

but by the same ethos i ditched everything for VLC, it is now time to become full time mpv

[opaque sigil]

waiting for that vulkan output so i can watch hdr videos with vlc one day

tried patching it to build with vulkan support but either i fucked up or it just doesn't work

[real sierra]

i still find it insane that vlc is a valid rtmp sink

[glass flower]

vlc takes ages for me to launch and the skipping around is also slow on larger files is mpv a good alternative?

[vagrant grove]

anyone have experience using Anubis over cloudflare? What's the difference in efficacy like—if there is one?

[sage crag]

[uneven pulsar]

mpv is pretty cool tbh so far i haven't found anything about it i didn't like

[uneven pulsar]

download chrome buttons dont work in edge

sometimes i really wish Microsoft was fined for 1/4 of their market value with all the fines going directly to google

[real sierra]

@sage crag added a board clone function if that's useful

[clear sedge]

i'd be down if the fines went directly to mozilla

[uneven pulsar]

works too

[clear sedge]

then they could kinda chillax with the weird direction they're going in

[real sierra]

programmers quiet on Friday...

[sage crag]

nrm

[real sierra]

[sage crag]

[real sierra]

[clear sedge]

mb gang i was looking deep in my dms for a very specific video for the past 20 minutes

[real sierra]

valid

[clear sedge]

now to write my json parser

[sage crag]

phrrr

[rigid snow]

having a life

[real sierra]

the hit neuro song?

[sage crag]

no that's Never

what even is life

[clear sedge]

what is love?

baby don't hurt me

don't hurt me

no mo'

[sage crag]

kill you

[real sierra]

code

bits byte

programmer is such a weird job

[sage crag]

[real sierra]

imagine describing this to someone 100 years ago

"I speak to the thinking machine"

[sage crag]

ye ye thinking machine

like me

[real sierra]

I learn the language of the thinking machine and tell it what to do

[clear sedge]

in fact the thinking machine has multiple languages!

[real sierra]

[sage crag]

nope just one

[real sierra]

sometimes there are even many thinking machine

[clear sedge]

some of those languages have dialects

[sage crag]

one language per thinking machine unless your thinking machine is atypical

[clear sedge]

multiple languages that get simplified to a more efficient language depending on which part of the thinking language we're speaking to

the eyes of the machine have a different simplified language than the brains!

[real sierra]

some times the thinking machines even imagine thinking machines

[clear sedge]

schizophrenia

[sage crag]

phrr

[copper sapphire]

What happened to MelbaToast project?

I remember reading their code a year ago, but haven't seen them since-ish

[nocturne olive]

Hiatus until further notice, all the programmers became unmotivated so the content became stale

[copper sapphire]

huh

[real sierra]

is there a good formula for mapping chess pieces to their approximate value

that isn't just a table lookup

[restive portal]

Other than chess notation?

[real sierra]

no I just mean

[copper sapphire]

well, there's if you can use

[real sierra]

for evaluating the score of a board

the current evaluation function is just 9*count(QUEEN) + 5*count(ROOK) + ...

and I'd love to remove those n* from the front to save tokens

I could do it if I had a way to go from those piece constants to approximately the right values

[copper sapphire]

"tokens"?

[stray dragon]

why can't you just do worth[piece] and have piece be a number from 0 to 6 depending on the type of that piece

[copper sapphire]

why are you saving them?

[real sierra]

because then I need to define worth somewhere

one idea might be packing all the values in a single number

I could do something like

[stray dragon]

but that's easy and takes less tokens, no?

[real sierra]

i don't think it's less tokens

[stray dragon]

2 per number

[real sierra]

I would need a number and comma for each value in the array

and then to actually index the array

if I just have a formula, I can bake it into count and derive it from the piece type

[stray dragon]

compared to 7 per piece this way

[real sierra]

I need the count

it's value per piece * number of pieces

cant eliminate count(QUEEN)

but it's just a macro, I could add things into it

so I can replace the constant out front with something in the macro that calculates a constant from the piecetype

[stray dragon]

for(i=64;--i;){total += worth[get_piece_at_index(i)];}

done

[real sierra]

thats so many tokens

[stray dragon]

you have the loop macroed

[restive portal]

enum TYPE { KING = 0, QUEEN = 9, ROOK = 5, BISHOP = 3, KNIGHT = 3, PAWN = 1 };

[stray dragon]

that would also work yeah

[real sierra]

my idea is

[restive portal]

I only learned Java. I’m no programmer. I learned enough for basics.

[real sierra]

(char) 0x010303050900ul << piece_type

[stray dragon]

yeah i tried doing something like that

[real sierra]

pack all the weights in a single value

[stray dragon]

wait

[real sierra]

and then shift by the piece type since I know the enum order

[stray dragon]

hmm.

[real sierra]

idk if the cast happens before the shift tho

[stray dragon]

would work a lot better than my implementation

[real sierra]

would cost extra brackets if it does

[stray dragon]

yeah seems good

[real sierra]

then I add this to the count macro and my eval fun is just

[stray dragon]

my goofy ass has the piece values as floats so i can't do something that easy

[real sierra]

count(QUEEN) + count(ROOK) + ....

[real sierra]

yeah screw that

ints are fine for me

[stray dragon]

yeah but your bot is dum

and i want mine to be smort

[real sierra]

my bot only checkmates itself on purpose when it plays black

it's not that dum

[stray dragon]

i need the full suite of improvements

[fierce badge]

i did a silly (i would send screenshot but no embed)
since i have dnd on discord, and i have notifs disabled on chrome
i made a python app that notifies me about tutel streams 🙏

[stray dragon]

optimizable parameters like the piece values? gimme that

[restive portal]

Are you adding En passant?

[real sierra]

cast comes before bit shift

it's over

lose another 2 tokens to parentheses

and then the * you'll need after it

ultimately it only saves 1 token

no wait

& comes after <<

I can do 0xff & 0x010303050900 << piece_type

save 2 tokens

[restive portal]

Also curious how you program Castling.

[stray dragon]

i can only imagine it's not very fun

the castling rules suck

[real sierra]

all the boilerplate around generating and performing legal moves is already implemented in an api i wrote

[stray dragon]

an api that has still not been released

[real sierra]

soon™

i promised chayleaf could finish the haskell bindings before it opens

they got sidetracked fixing the token counter which was sorely needed, so only fair that i give them a bit more time

[real sierra]

honestly im scared of the python bots

[stray dragon]

i don't want excuses i want functions

[real sierra]

like

[stray dragon]

but why though

[real sierra]

tbh i was laughing a bit before

but you save so many tokens in python

[stray dragon]

i tested it

you really don't

[real sierra]

i feel like you do tho

[stray dragon]

you'd think so

[real sierra]

no closing }

no free statements

[stray dragon]

which is why i tested it

you gain tokens

[real sierra]

no type specifiers

[stray dragon]

it's like 40% gain

[real sierra]

how

[stray dragon]

idfk

i implemented the same minimal algorithm as i did in C

was like 140 tokens to 100 or so

could maybe reduce it with better algorithms that take advantage of the built-in stuff in python

but then C has macros

i really don't think it's a good option

[real sierra]

that was with the old token counter wasnt it

[stray dragon]

yes but it won't change a thing i don't think

[real sierra]

even with your macros counting for tokens now?

idk how bad your macros have gotten but

[stray dragon]

they've always counted for tokens after i found out about that

[real sierra]

im at this point

#define cbclose_return_rv_sc_cbclose_void } return_rv_sc } void

[stray dragon]

i just put them on two lines

and they fully count

[real sierra]

i literally

moved functions around in my file

[obsidian mantle]

counter + define with *?

[real sierra]

so i could use this macro an extra time

[obsidian mantle]

oh its not linear

[real sierra]

thats the issue

[stray dragon]

but yeah i just do this and the define fully counts the tokens even with the old counter

[obsidian mantle]

do you transform letter of position into number or use it as plain char

[real sierra]

letter of position?

[obsidian mantle]

a b c d

[real sierra]

oh

Move objects dont store position as a letter and number

it's stored as a bitboard

a bitboard represents the chessboard, with one bit for every square:

8 00000000
7 00000000
6 00000000
5 00000000
4 00000000
3 00000000
2 00000000
1 00000000
  abcdefgh

[obsidian mantle]

and what are "ROOK" and "QUEEN"

[real sierra]

integers

PAWN, BISHOP, etc all integers

[obsidian mantle]

replace them with counter?

[real sierra]

1 to 6 in ascending value

[real sierra]

i dont get to choose what they are

its fixed by the api

[obsidian mantle]

are they strings

oh you said it

soooo

still

what exact integers

[real sierra]

1 to 6

[stray dragon]

pawn 1

king 6

guess the rest

[obsidian mantle]

so counter 1 to 6

reset before usage

[real sierra]

but i dont just want increasing values for the piece values

[stray dragon]

smh shiro

[real sierra]

2 pawns is not worth a bishop

and 3 pawns is not worth a knight

it's not a linear relationship

[obsidian mantle]

but there is a multiplier before them

9 and 5

[real sierra]

i want to get rid of the multiplier

thats the entire problem

[stray dragon]

they mean make a loop, from 1 to 6, and then do something like total+=worth[i]*count(i);

for each iteration of the loop

[obsidian mantle]

no i mean

[real sierra]

loop costs more tokens

[stray dragon]

how

your loop sucks

[real sierra]

all the variables involved have to be defined

my loop doesnt suck its 3 tokens

[stray dragon]

then use it?

[real sierra]

its still more tokens

[stray dragon]

how

[obsidian mantle]

wait yes its useless you just replace "piece name" with counter then its 1 to 1

[stray dragon]

smh

[real sierra]

my loop always starts at 0

i cant make loops that start at 1

that was one of the sacrifices made for tokens

[stray dragon]

make worth an array that starts with a 0 at the 0 pos

smh

[obsidian mantle]

can we see the loop that sucks

[real sierra]

then you have to make the array

tokens

[stray dragon]

less tokens

smh

[real sierra]

#define popdiff(P) 0xff & 0x010303050900 << P * (__builtin_popcountll(chess_get_bitboard(board, WHITE, P)) - __builtin_popcountll(chess_get_bitboard(board, BLACK, P)))
#define eval_score popdiff(QUEEN) + popdiff(ROOK) + popdiff(BISHOP) + popdiff(KNIGHT) + popdiff(PAWN)

this is my entire eval fun

you're telling me a loop, with all the associated definitions, is fewer tokens?

i dont believe it

[stray dragon]

i'm telling you to replace popdiff(QUEEN) + popdiff(ROOK) + popdiff(BISHOP) + popdiff(KNIGHT) + popdiff(PAWN) with a loop

[real sierra]

im telling you its not fewer tokens

[stray dragon]

how.

[real sierra]

because then i need worth and total defined

and i need to initialize worth

and then the loop itself

[stray dragon]

ngl it seems like way less tokens than all this

[real sierra]

token counter says this is 67 tokens

[tender river]

ye 2hz

[obsidian mantle]

for (int piece : pieces) popdiff(piece) if rook and queen are in a pieces array

[rigid snow]

how do you know

[tender river]

[real sierra]

for (int piece : pieces)

i wish

[stray dragon]

just:

worth[7]={0,1,3,3,5,9};
total=0;
for(i=64;--i;){total+=worth[get_piece_at_index(i)];}

done

[obsidian mantle]

is it not a thing in c

[opaque sigil]

shiro

[stray dragon]

that's it!

[opaque sigil]

just use g++ already

[real sierra]

???

im not using c++

or anything like it

C or nothing

[opaque sigil]

do it for the tokens

[stray dragon]

no more of whatever evaluation function you have, that's (almost) all you need to replace it

[real sierra]

i have standards

[opaque sigil]

sadly no

[real sierra]

i still have stdbool

[rigid snow]

you heard them shiro, java isn't real programming

[stray dragon]

so stubborn about this, and for what

[real sierra]

i want tokens but im not a monster

[stray dragon]

LOL

[real sierra]

loop slow

[opaque sigil]

you know you can just write c with a c++ compiler right

[stray dragon]

LOOP WORK

[real sierra]

SLOW

[stray dragon]

LESS TOKEN

[real sierra]

SLOOOOW

i just shrink tokens elsewhere it ok

[stray dragon]

this is why you'll fail the contest

smh having standards only means you're limiting the things you can do

[tender river]

compilers gonna optimize it away

[stray dragon]

^^^

[real sierra]

dont believe

compiler dum

[tender river]

also pass -O3 to gcc

[real sierra]

wont unroll my 64 loop

[stray dragon]

compiler fast

[obsidian mantle]

is "#define" one token or two

[stray dragon]

very fast

[obsidian mantle]

must be two

can you define define?

[stray dragon]

loop in c? fastfast

do not care about speed of loop in c unless is dumb loop

smh

[real sierra]

preprocessor tags in macros are undefined behaviour by the standard

[obsidian mantle]

undefined doesnt sound like "doesnt work 100%"

or is it crashing everything

[opaque sigil]

what does that even mean

#define define 42
this?

[obsidian mantle]

#define define_short #define

[opaque sigil]

yeah nah

[obsidian mantle]

define_short whatever

[stray dragon]

no, it says it doesn't expect a # at the start of the definition

[warped narwhal]

implementation defined or undefined?

[opaque sigil]

you'd have to write a preprocessor for the preprocessor

[warped narwhal]

or you could preprocess multiple times

[obsidian mantle]

how many tokens is this anyway

if you removed it entirely would it be huge

[warped narwhal]

#define define_myvar #define my_var 2
define_myvar
int var = my_var;
// gcc -E
#define my_var 2
int var = my_var;
// gcc -E
int var = 2;

[real sierra]

67

[obsidian mantle]

optimising some unique thing to get 5 tokens sounds unworth

[real sierra]

im at 1038 tokens

[obsidian mantle]

define global array of ints then access them with macrosed counter

[real sierra]

i only need to shave 14 more

[opaque sigil]

6 for yeeting stdbool

actually

aren't you compiling with c23

[real sierra]

i will not preprocess people's submissions multiple times

submissions are gonna be compiled with the same commands lol

[obsidian mantle]

anywhere
should be called in correct order
removes need to write "int" every time

is it nonsense

how to access them later tho

[real sierra]

i was this close to reusing argc as a free pointer

[obsidian mantle]

if i do like
#define a_var int my_int
then somewhere do
a_var

can i access it later with my_int?

[real sierra]

sure

but you can also just do

int my_int

and make a global

so the macro isnt doing much

[obsidian mantle]

but i also can int my_int[500]

[real sierra]

?

[opaque sigil]

i assume you mean argv?

[real sierra]

no i mean argc

im already using argv

[opaque sigil]

i see

[real sierra]

argc is a char * but you can just set that to anything

all pointers are the same size

would be great for storing my tree struct

[opaque sigil]

what

[real sierra]

sadly my macros all have tree built into them already for that

[opaque sigil]

argc is not a pointer

[real sierra]

it is

int main(int argc, char *argv[] bclose

OH

i do mean argv

[opaque sigil]

now that makes more sense

[real sierra]

"argc is pointer"

sorry i cant read non-macros

[opaque sigil]

idk if it's safe to reuse the memory from argc

4 bytes is 4 bytes

[real sierra]

im not reusing the contents of the array

im reusing the pointer itself

argv as a pointer is just a value on the stack

[opaque sigil]

yeah that's what i meant

[real sierra]

do you think changing the value in argc is gonna break things after i return?

[opaque sigil]

take a pointer to argc and use that for whatever you want

[real sierra]

seems like it'd be a const * if so

[opaque sigil]

idk

[real sierra]

where can i even save tokens anymore

[opaque sigil]

yeet stdbool

[real sierra]

stdbool my beloved

[opaque sigil]

and either target c23 or use a c++ compiler

[real sierra]

i will target c23

[opaque sigil]

could break if you rely on things being implicitly ints thanks to c89

[obsidian mantle]

my_int vs int my_int

[opaque sigil]

[real sierra]

i dont see why you wouldnt just

#define my_int int x ## __COUNTER__ = 0;

why the array

[opaque sigil]

i'd also recommend looking into replacing things with things from the c++ stl but i guess i know how you feel about that shiro

[real sierra]

death before dishonor

where "death" is "too many tokens"

and "dishonor" is "c++"

the biggest annoyance for me is rand

it requires stdlib

only dependency on it that i have left

and making my own rand is too many tokens

[stray dragon]

oh that's easy

here's how i replaced it:

[real sierra]

that doesnt exist

[stray dragon]

does it not?

[real sierra]

it doesnt

i checked

[stray dragon]

aw

[real sierra]

i literally scrolled the full list of builtins to find useful ones

[stray dragon]

you should try it though

[opaque sigil]

are you using clang t

[real sierra]

wdym

it isnt there

[stray dragon]

i'm using nothing because i can't actually test this because shiro won't ever send me the api

[real sierra]

once chayleaf finishes haskell bindings, contest starts

[stray dragon]

i did test rand in an online c compiler though

[real sierra]

[stray dragon]

it worked

with the builtin

[rigid snow]

haskell bindings for no one to use them

cool

[stray dragon]

i don't think the "list of builtins" shows everything

[obsidian mantle]

this is better

[stray dragon]

it didn't show __builtin_pow, yet that exists and works

[obsidian mantle]

i forgot why do i need array

[opaque sigil]

i would love to know what weird compiler you were using

neither gcc nor clang have __builtin_rand for me

[real sierra]

it does: https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Library-Builtins.html

[opaque sigil]

same with tcc

i'm not testing msvc

[real sierra]

you will notice that rand is absent from this page

my compiler is gcc so you should expect these builtins to exist (i'll add this info to the github readme)

[stray dragon]

aw man

[obsidian mantle]

am i correct that each my_int replaces int my_int? which is accessed later with random_local_int locally

[stray dragon]

you're right

builtin rand doesn't exist

builtin pow does though

weird.

[real sierra]

yeah idk why rand isnt a builtin