programming

[stray dragon]

damn.

[opaque sigil]

Not if it's a local array

[stray dragon]

i think that's as short as my matmul array will be getting

[sage crag]

i suppose so

[stray dragon]

local arrays also seem to be zero-initialized

[opaque sigil]

Oh huh

Neato then

[sage crag]

why dont you reuse A?

granted i dont know if its a square matmul or if you are allowed to do stuff in place

this looks nonstandard though

[midnight sigil]

this is macro-able

[stray dragon]

it's for 1d matrix x 2d matrix (both are input as 1d arrays)

[midnight sigil]

get a lexer to count tokens for you

[sage crag]

you shouldnt

[midnight sigil]

it's unpleasant to read ABCDEFG

[sage crag]

you will do stack smashing if you do

[midnight sigil]

[sage crag]

not really

its maths

doesnt need variable names just identifiers

[sage crag]

have you tried removing the curly braces from the for loop

that works with if

[obsidian mantle]

Yeah should work

It uses just one line

[stray dragon]

wouldn't work, the size of the A matrix is h*1 and the size of the C matrix is w*1
if w is larger than h (and it is, in one case) it would ruin things

would probably be fucked in any case actually

[stray dragon]

hmm.

[trim valve]

I am going insane or something

the bot keeps trying to do moves it just did?

[sage crag]

hi

did it work

[stray dragon]

nope

even when stacking everything into a oneliner it doesn't let you remove the brackets for the for loop

[sage crag]

return double C[30], for(....) { C[l%w] = .... }, C;

[stray dragon]

even if it's just a single expression doesn't work either

[sage crag]

[stray dragon]

oooh that's an interesting one

[opaque sigil]

Is this a c thing, cause that absolutely does work in c++

[silent cloak]

Ugly code competition

[sage crag]

oh actually cant you declare C in the for loop start too

[trim valve]

[sage crag]

to save tokens

[trim valve]

ok somehow

the C bot is fine

the rust one keeps making illegal moves

surely this is a skill issue on my part

[stray dragon]

oh yeah

[sage crag]

drat, move to its own line i guess

[sage crag]

no it wont work cause return outside

[silent cloak]

It's memory safe but it can only do the wrong thing

[stray dragon]

wait no, it returns C

actually would putting it in the for loop's first statement fuck with the return?

[sage crag]

ye

[stray dragon]

don't think it's saving any tokens so whatever

[stray dragon]

it may do the wrong thing, but at least it does it well

[trim valve]

current guesses are that (all of the following):

• the chess api is incorrectly marking discovered checks as checkmate (specifically, where a piece moves next to the king whilst also placing it in check)
• the rust example bot doesn't submit a move if the api returns no available moves, which probably just plays the last move that was played

[sage crag]

can you use the fact that a += b evaluates to a + b

[trim valve]

actually wait, I think its even more stupid, the C chess bot has an arithemtic fault that causes it to crash so cute-chess restarts it. This somehow means that it reinterprets the game state and then actually sees the move when restarted

[flint dome]

wtf regex my eyes hurt

[sage crag]

mat(A,B,h,w,i) {double C[30];return({for(l=h*w;l--;)C[l%w]+=A[l/h]*B[i+l];C;});}
t

[flint dome]

AHHHHHHHH

[sage crag]

ill be really interested if this compiles

[stray dragon]

ooh.

[flint dome]

me eyes hurt I saw too much regex im leaving

[sage crag]

sorry for no whitespace hard tot ype on phone

[stray dragon]

all i hear is WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH

[sage crag]

its not regex its c

[flint dome]

yeah but there is regex in there

when programs start speaking alien I get scared

[stray dragon]

no

there's zero regex

[flint dome]

then what is that

[sage crag]

c code

[flint dome]

and why does it make my eyes hurt

[silent cloak]

You must work with python

[flint dome]

no I learnt programming with c

[stray dragon]

i think this actually works, assuming i fix A and B having this problem

crazy

[flint dome]

I understand some of it but some looks alien to me

[sage crag]

im so sorry

[silent cloak]

Thats because they are writing it weird

[sage crag]

did you check token count

it may be worse

[flint dome]

that's why I started screaming regex

[silent cloak]

It looks like how Javascript looks on websites

[flint dome]

without checking if it is anything else

[flint dome]

js still looks mildly decipherable

[sage crag]

gotta reduce tokens

[stray dragon]

2 tokens worse

it's so fucked 💔

would've been so funny if it worked

[sage crag]

wait you dont need that C;

[trim valve]

@real sierra yeah its a bug in both my bot and your api

[sage crag]

the += already evaluates to C

[trim valve]

with a very elegant solution on my part

[silent cloak]

Why

Some pay to use compiler?

[stray dragon]

same number of tokens without it

[sage crag]

gotta reduce

[trim valve]

for some reason exit(-1) doesn't work, so faulting it it

[silent cloak]

For fun?

[sage crag]

since its a 1 liner can you now remove the outer brackets of the function or is that too evil even for c

[stray dragon]

also the C; is necessary

[sage crag]

aww

oh of course

[trim valve]

wait dammit that deref isn't killing it smh

[stray dragon]

i tried that with functions too earlier

no removing the brackets

[trim valve]

ok this actually works

[stray dragon]

@sage crag i am happy to report that __builtin_pow() works though

[sage crag]

yaya

[trim valve]

finally patity between the bots

[sage crag]

careful which one you use

[stray dragon]

?

[sage crag]

also there a bunch of these builtins

[trim valve]

or well not quite because I use a different rand but w/e

[sage crag]

there also powf iirc

[stray dragon]

there's more

[sage crag]

m

[sage crag]

i.e. __builtin_malloc

__builtin_free

__builtin_strlen

etc

[stray dragon]

very interesting.

i wonder if there's any useful builtins i could use

[sage crag]

perhaps __builtin_fma

or ctez

those require compiling with cpu features tho

since they correspond to x86 instrs

[faint sandal]

powl

fowl

ow

owo

[sage crag]

schizaka

[faint sandal]

bwaazaka

kuhzaka

[sage crag]

[flint dome]

buhzaka

[faint sandal]

[trim valve]

@real sierra (apologies for the ping barrage ) minimal(ish) example of something that gets a false checkmate and causes the bot to crash
1. e4 a5 2. Bb5 f6 3. Bf1 g5 4. Ke2 h5 5. a3 d5 6. Kd3 dxe4+ {White disconnects}

brb gonna make a bot the speedruns a discovered check from a pawn taking

[olive sable]

i am back home

i apparenlty have tuesday and friday afternoons completely off this year

[sage crag]

why dont you :buhFlipExplode: your way on out of here

[olive sable]

https://tenor.com/view/buh-gif-14465458220549268962

[stray dragon]

i wonder if there's a way to set up a macro so i can replace each of these lines with STAGE(2) or something so the 2 gets applied to that one input and also the function names that get called

[olive sable]

why does it do 0, 0, 2, 3, 4 on the left side?

[sage crag]

t do you know about __COUNTER__

[stray dragon]

weirdness from the logic involved with the fractal, i want to prune the moves at the first stage but doing stage1() at the start of a stage will undo that pruning

[olive sable]

ok

[stray dragon]

i did not

[stray dragon]

i barely understand it either lol

[sage crag]

search for it in this channel there is an example above

maybe be able to trim more

how are you defining function without return type btw

[opaque sigil]

#define STAGE(N, first, second) \
stage##N(u, w) {                          \
    stage(u, w, N, first, second);   \
}

STAGE(2, stage0, stage1)
STAGE(3, stage0, stage2)
STAGE(4, stage2, stage3)
STAGE(5, stage3, stage4)
STAGE(6, stage4, stage5)

idk if this is even worth it

[stray dragon]

i don't think it needs a return type

[sage crag]

dubious

[faint sandal]

why do u hate me

[stray dragon]

saw code golf examples where they just exclude any kind of return type or whatever

[real sierra]

it just fricking turns the bot off? doesn't even submit illegal moves?

[opaque sigil]

probably one of those sketch af c89 things

[sage crag]

im evil

[real sierra]

[sage crag]

remove all types from c

all inference

[faint sandal]

no that name is taken and is illegal to own twice

[sage crag]

theres a zero width space in there

[real sierra]

wait what are you cooking

[sage crag]

rocket booster

multistage

[stray dragon]

the tree search pattern, with pruning

was hell trying to wrap my brain around the process and then trying to convert it into a recursive algorithm of some sort that i could express in functions

[real sierra]

so do I actually have to worry or not

[stray dragon]

no

[real sierra]

whitespace shouldn't count for tokens

[real sierra]

clever indeed

but yeah recursive search is probably the way

[sage crag]

tail recursion saves so many tokens in complex loops

[stray dragon]

oh my god it's genius

[sage crag]

i was gonna use computed goto in my bot for fun but i think it may be too expensive in tokens

[sage crag]

its vile

[stray dragon]

genius

i love it

[sage crag]

counter is incremented for any macro that uses it

its not per-macro

choose 1 thing

[stray dragon]

i can shave off even more than i expected

[sage crag]

ive done terrible things

[opaque sigil]

[stray dragon]

no more i++ silliness >:)

[real sierra]

I'm too scared to do this

what if the order is somehow not what I expect and everything breaks

[sage crag]

what have i done

manual loop unrolling with macros

[stray dragon]

actually couldn't i just put __COUNTER__ instead of i in the while loop?

[quiet mirage]

how tf

i hate ts

[stray dragon]

and then not put counter in the silly macro

[real sierra]

numbers aren't valid variables

[sage crag]

i dont think that works

[stray dragon]

aw

[sage crag]

[quiet mirage]

and wtf why my my notebook run on my intergrated gpu

[obsidian mantle]

#define 0

[real sierra]

could do i ## __COUNTER__

[stray dragon]

actually

[real sierra]

but idk if that works as desired

[stray dragon]

why even limit myself

the only reason i was doing so was "what if there's a freak case where the number of available moves is more than 64"

[quiet mirage]

idk are u talk about C++?

[stray dragon]

C

[real sierra]

ts pmo

[quiet mirage]

[stray dragon]

sybau 🥀

[quiet mirage]

i hate

[sage crag]

typescript project manager oversight

[stray dragon]

LOL

[quiet mirage]

LOL

typescript

or sbd in the general said teamspeak

[real sierra]

I don't know why my engine SUCKS sometimes

[quiet mirage]

oh no my kernel died

[real sierra]

it just sucks so bad

[quiet mirage]

huh

[trim valve]

the c code faults when there are no available moves

[quiet mirage]

which engine

use C

[trim valve]

the program crashing loses the round

[sage crag]

car

[real sierra]

that's fine

[quiet mirage]

!

[real sierra]

but there's no available moves

is the round not over

[trim valve]

there are available moves

your API just doesn't see them

[real sierra]

...

[sage crag]

classic

[real sierra]

ok

I'll take a look

not seeing legal moves is worrying

I wonder what I over constrained

why are the rules to this game so complicated

no wonder I suck at it

[sage crag]

shiro never write a SAT solver pls

[quiet mirage]

SAT mentioned

[trim valve]

banned from autovectorization

[real sierra]

FPE

[opaque sigil]

have you considered not dividing by 0

[real sierra]

ok lets see whats causing this disaster

[trim valve]

iirc its because you're doing rand() % 0

[obsidian mantle]

(Not like i would manage to implement it anyway)

[real sierra]

yeah

the issue is no legal moves in this position

it's double check which has some special and rarely-tested move rules

basically you're restricted to king moves only

[obsidian mantle]

But if there are no legal moves the game is over?
Or does it not detect the moves correctly

[real sierra]

and can't move to attacked squares ofc

[real sierra]

it's not detecting a valid move

in this pothere's a couple legal moves here in fact

you can take the pawn or move to e2, e3

c3 c4 also valid

very strange

..?

wat

oh i need to rebuild the library

[trim valve]

[White "Human"]
[Black "example_bot (a)"]
[Result "1-0"]
[FEN "3qkbn1/3p1p2/4P3/8/8/8/4Q3/K7 b - - 0 1"]

1... Qb8 2. exd7+ {8.3s, Black disconnects} 1-0

it seems like it doesn't realize that:

• the queen has moved
• the pawn is unprotected

[real sierra]

DEBUG: attacked bitboard
-XXXXXX-
XXXXXXXX
XXXXXX-X
X--XXXXX
-X-X-XXX
---X-X-X
---X----
--------

that's all the attacked squares on the board that the bot sees

which is correct

so why cant it move to the good squares

[trim valve]

hm?

so is that laid out like the actual board

[real sierra]

yes

with white at the bottom

[real sierra]

helpful dump_bitboard function from bitboard.h

[real sierra]

?

im on a different position

[trim valve]

oops

[real sierra]

this is the one u sent me

[trim valve]

this is a significantly simpler position

[real sierra]

ill check that one after this

id rather get the data from both test cases

in case its two bugs

[trim valve]

[real sierra]

heres another fun set of boards

dir: 0
--------
--------
--------
--------
XXXX-XXX
-XX--XXX
X-------
--------

dir: 1
--------
--------
--------
-------X
----X-X-
-----X--
----X---
--------

dir: 2
--------
--------
--------
--------
--------
----X---
--------
----X---

dir: 3
--------
--------
--------
--------
--------
--------
----X---
--------

dir: 4
--------
--------
--------
--------
--------
--------
--------
--------

dir: 5
--------
--------
--------
--------
--------
--------
--------
--------

dir: 6
--------
--------
--------
--------
--------
--X-----
--------
--------

dir: 7
--------
--------
--------
--------
--X-----
--------
----X---
--------

dir: 8
--------
--------
--------
--------
--------
-----X--
--------
--------

dir: 9
--------
--------
--------
--------
--------
--------
----X---
--------

dir: 10
--------
--------
--------
--------
--------
--------
--------
--------

dir: 11
--------
--------
--------
--------
--------
--------
--------
--------

dir: 12
--------
--------
--------
--------
--------
--X----X
--------
--------

dir: 13
--------
--------
--------
--------
--------
--------
--------
--------

dir: 14
--------
--------
--------
--------
--------
--------
--------
--------

dir: 15
--------
--------
--------
--------
--------
--------
--------
--------

the ray attack boards

shows the destination tiles of possible moves, starting with north moves, then northeast moves, clockwise to northwest moves, then all the knight moves

i can see the pseudo-legal move finder is generating the valid king moves

OH

found the bug

i had a short circuit eval for double check positions that would skip evaluating pseudo moves to squares not near the king (since they're automatically illegal)

but this skips the part of the function that actually shifts the attack square

[sage crag]

phrr

[real sierra]

now finds d3c3

and d3e4

[trim valve]

[real sierra]

d3e2

looks correct

what was that other position you wanted me to test again

with the fen

[trim valve]

uci
ucinewgame
position fen 3qkbn1/3p1p2/4P3/8/8/8/4Q3/K7 b - - 0 1 moves f8d6 e6d7
go infinite

[real sierra]

finds e8f8

is that correct

or e8d7

[stark needle]

Chat wtf

[trim valve]

looks correct

[real sierra]

cool

ill push the change

[stark needle]

I was able to win in an auction a whole GoXLR for 90 bucks

[real sierra]

im glad to see the broken situations are getting more and more niche

[trim valve]

time to run another 10k games to look for bugs

[real sierra]

new version sent

can i even use a transposition table with this method

it seems kinda hard to apply

[sage crag]

chipi

[trim valve]

bad news shiro

I am still getting crashes

[olive sable]

[trim valve]

I think its less though?

[sage crag]

noper

more crash

just less frequent

[olive sable]

concentrated crashing

[polar crane]

Everything was running slow on my pc and when I checked, Sata connections were running at 16.7MBytes/s turns out my CMOS battery died and it was booting with IDE instead of AHCI

[olive sable]

[trim valve]

I love it when cute-chess dies and does this

[quiet mirage]

holy ryzen 9

anyways is that chess bot?

[trim valve]

shiwo why does cat test.txt | ./example_bot pin a core at 100%

[trim valve]

yeah

but not intentionally 😭

[quiet mirage]

i just think about stockfish or smth smth like that

NSO_PchanDead

[trim valve]

oh wait

[quiet mirage]

are u use machine learning?

oh nvm

[trim valve]

this one is literally just picking random moves

[real sierra]

ikr

im getting the same thing

[real sierra]

uncertain

you would think it'd hit the semaphore but

[trim valve]

does your code actually die if it can't read stdin

or does it just keep trying

[real sierra]

it should at least freeze id think

i dont suppose being stuck on a mutex with no other running threads to switch to is a busy sleep

[trim valve]

shrug

[real sierra]

its awkward because the UCI thread is the child thread not the parent thread

[trim valve]

I have a weird issue

[real sierra]

i have 41 tokens to work with

[real sierra]

whats up

[trim valve]

cute-chess is no longer writing game logs

[real sierra]

wasnt me

[trim valve]

Player: rust-chess-bot (release) (a)
   "Draw by 3-fold repetition": 8190
   "Draw by fifty moves rule": 97
   "Draw by insufficient mating material": 409
   "Draw by stalemate": 186
   "Loss: Black disconnects": 3
   "Loss: Black mates": 269
   "Loss: White disconnects": 5
   "Loss: White mates": 288
   "Win: Black disconnects": 5
   "Win: Black mates": 276
   "Win: White disconnects": 5
   "Win: White mates": 267

it now crashes a lot less

only 18 times in 10k games

[real sierra]

macros all the way down

[trim valve]

i should probably profile instead of trying to debugger this

[real sierra]

oh

you know what

i think i know what it is

the UCI scanf doesnt exit on eof

so if stdin closes without killing the process

it loops forever

easy patch, just a sec

[trim valve]

uci
ucinewgame
position fen 1r3kr1/p1p5/2b2Pp1/np2b3/1P3P2/PKP4p/RQ1q3P/1NB1R2B w - - 1 39
go infinite

new crash

[real sierra]

[ember finch]

[real sierra]

yep that crashes

single check where you need to take the attacking piece without a king move

DEBUG: check attacks bitboard
--------
--------
--------
X-------
--------
--------
--------
--------

this bitboard represents all squares that can be moved to in order to break the check

looks correct

so why isnt it working

[solid bough]

Everything is working now

FINALLY

Yeees

[opaque sigil]

take the survey

[hollow spruce]

Server issue is wild

[hollow spruce]

Good

[rigid snow]

they found each other

[hollow spruce]

Some how google colaba gpus are shutdown

[real sierra]

it thinks the pawn is pinned

[solid bough]

Yeah, and now I need to test what the largest dataset is I can use before my GPU explodes

[hard raptor]

Alr.. let's make a database with mostly bash

[solid bough]

Too latte, I already pushed "don't show again" button

[solid bough]

Damn, and I run that code locally right now that you saw on the image.

[rigid snow]

css router, bash web server

what do you call this stack

[hard raptor]

Hmmmm

Idk

[trim valve]

here's a reduced version of the fen 1r3kr1/8/8/np2b3/1P6/PKP5/RQ1q4/8 w - - 0 1

I think its due to the rook above the pawn

[rigid snow]

wait i got it all mixed up

[hard raptor]

Yeh

[rigid snow]

it’s a css web server and a bash db

[sage crag]

fen fen fen

[rigid snow]

fein

[real sierra]

i see

[hard raptor]

Wait..

[real sierra]

the pin checker looks for straight-line sequences of king --> (friendly piece) --> (enemy piece that attacks on this ray)

[hard raptor]

I could make a really bad joke and include another part that starts with t

[real sierra]

it only halts with no pin if it detects two friendly pieces in a row

[hard raptor]

I am not gonna finish that sentence tho

[stray dragon]

what...

[rigid snow]

typescript isn’t cursed enough

what else starts with t

[hard raptor]

Twig for the templating engine

Could also use ASP for templating

[rigid snow]

just googled it’s basically jinja

[hard raptor]

For the abc stack

[rigid snow]

not cursed enough

[hard raptor]

Ehhh

Wait

What programming language starts with t

Then i make my own template engine that uses that syntax

TeX seems cursed for web templating

[real sierra]

ok fixed bug

by only removing code apparently

[hard raptor]

Or we could find another letter or use a letter from a different position of a language

The first option would allow for a potentially more SFW acronym

[hollow spruce]

Stop spaming error

[real sierra]

@trim valve pushed new version

[hard raptor]

(That's still funny)

[hollow spruce]

I will back in some times

[rigid snow]

wdym “closed beta testing” isn’t sfw

[hard raptor]

[trim valve]

in a 5k game tournament

[real sierra]

oh also i pushed again to try and fix the busy crash thing

[trim valve]

you might have uh

[real sierra]

wtf

[sage crag]

rust programmer allergic to refcounting

[real sierra]

OH

IM AN IDIOT

[sage crag]

mm yes smart pointer no refcount

[hard raptor]

Or we could replace the css with something that has the letter d in it, ise M4 for templating.. and we only missing the s

[sage crag]

[real sierra]

before the pin checker would stop looking on hitting another friendly piece

i meant to make it stop looking on hitting any piece

i instead made it stop looking on hitting empty squares too

[hard raptor]

Yeahh wait

[real sierra]

[trim valve]

the comments makethis even more bewildering

[hard raptor]

Use scheme for data communication between front end and back end instead of GraphQL

[trim valve]

do they literally just want Arc<Arc<T>>?

[real sierra]

@trim valve pushed again 🫸

this should be the right condition

im confident this time

[hard raptor]

On the otherhand

[real sierra]

someday we'll reach a point where the legal moves checker returns legal moves

[hard raptor]

SQL is already used in the back end anyways

So we may not need to find something for the S

[sage crag]

you should like

fuzz that thing

you know

generate test cases and compare it against an existing library

for like 2 hours

then patch bugs and rerun the failed cases

[hard raptor]

Or the S can be covered by SCSS

And then we need something else for the D

[trim valve]

dinkdonk ```
uci
ucinewgame
position fen 6Q1/8/7k/7q/7R/8/7K/8 b - - 3 124
go infinite

[hard raptor]

We could probably work GD script in there somewhere

[sage crag]

@real sierra

[hard raptor]

On the otherhand

[solid bough]

Btw, wanna see what kind of output that model is gonna make?

Hi Hayleigh

[hard raptor]

We could also use D-Lang to write the webserver module for the SCSS runtime

[real sierra]

I gotta go to class

[solid bough]

Alighty, the model is done with the 1024 epoches

[real sierra]

is it at least improved

[trim valve]

lemme run a longer test and see

it only died after 2k games

[solid bough]

Shiro~ who did you mean?

[real sierra]

bred

need to know if the API changes I just made fixed the issue or not

[real sierra]

can I see the analysis board

I'm on mobile

[solid bough]

Oh god...

[real sierra]

no pinned pieces pls

[sage crag]

you

write fuzzer

or

[solid bough]

Why tf is it so... uh... unsettling

[opaque sigil]

fuzzing is for nerds (i am the nerd)

[real sierra]

fuzzer on UCI annoying

Besides that's basically what a tournament is

[sage crag]

maybe one already exist

[real sierra]

especially with random move bots

[sage crag]

you try

[real sierra]

black is crashing here?

oh I see

extremely rare edge case

pinned pieces can't move EXCEPT along the ray they're pinned on

[sage crag]

https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=69Km895ntNc

[hollow spruce]

Only cause of google colaba gpus shutdown was delayed payment

[real sierra]

idek how I fix that

that's complicated

[hollow spruce]

Don't worry I have plenty of gpus left

[real sierra]

I might need directional pin boards indicating the valid movement rays

[hollow spruce]

Hmm that odd

[hard raptor]

M4 would literally be the only thing in the stack doing exactly everything it was designed for

[hollow spruce]

Which m4

[opaque sigil]

m4

[hollow spruce]

M4 chip from apple , m4 units of google colaba gpus
A80pro ?

[opaque sigil]

gnu m4 i'd imagine

[hard raptor]

No the templating language

[hollow spruce]

Hmm

[hard raptor]

Dementia

[real sierra]

got the content in the top right

subway surfers

needs a 5 minute crafts video too my attention span is too short

[hollow spruce]

It was done by network

Just sent I click 2 times that all

[hard raptor]

silly network

so ur network has dementia

so it still dementia

[rigid snow]

discord fucked something up

apparently text now too

[hard raptor]

text was also known like 4 days ago

in filcord

[real sierra]

I think I'm sick

I've been seriously pushing myself writing the code for this event

not eating or sleeping enough lately

it's finally catching up to me

[fast pagoda]

im thinking you could extend this via RACK -
Rust - backend, reimplements everything else on the backend concurrently as well
Angular - Front end
Clojure - backend services OR C++ just to conflict with rust for no reason
Kubernetes for orchestrating a deployment

[real sierra]

just use java for everything

[quiet mirage]

java is funny

[fast pagoda]

clojure runs on the jvm

[quiet mirage]

what is that

[clear sedge]

now you're speaking my language

[rigid snow]

what the FUCK is this stack bruh 💔

[fast pagoda]

well conceived and comprehensive

[clear sedge]

object orientation is the future, just use java

[real sierra]

java if it had operator overloads

[clear sedge]

that's just c# with less steps

[real sierra]

java was first

[clear sedge]

don't get me wrong i'm a javahead too

but c# beat java to certain features

[solid bough]

An AI that is VERY primitive...

[real sierra]

🥀 idk why it's not on java yet

it would be fully backward compatible

and it's such low hanging fruit

[fast pagoda]

c# is literally bill gates said we need a god DAYUM java and hell nah we aint asking sun even though they're right there

and now we have neuro

cause and effect

https://tenor.com/view/dominos-falling-gif-10390862

[clear sedge]

erm actually i see a potential problem with == and object references

[quiet mirage]

i mean the pics

[quiet mirage]

another C -> E example

great

[rigid snow]

i remember reading some essay by a diehard java fan on how java is actually perfect and successful only because it doesn't have operator overloading

[opaque sigil]

just look at c++ and how operator overloading worked out for them

[clear sedge]

you've heard of , now get ready for

[rigid snow]

that was the argument

[quiet mirage]

my first impression of java

[quiet mirage]

what the f is e

[clear sedge]

std::cunt << ":(";

[rigid snow]

[quiet mirage]

look at python

[clear sedge]

i hate python with all my soul

i despise that snake.

[quiet mirage]

just print(1+1) and 2

[opaque sigil]

sorry only real languages are considered here

[quiet mirage]

me too

i use anaconda

[clear sedge]

i hope python dies in the pits of the hell it belongs in

[opaque sigil]

there's your problem

don't use anaconda

[quiet mirage]

so it doesnt count right

[rigid snow]

python at least doesn't fucking shift strings into stdout

[quiet mirage]

miniconda

[rigid snow]

conda is cool

uv better tho

[quiet mirage]

ok i hate python when i has to competitive programming

[clear sedge]

we have std::println in c++ now :3

[quiet mirage]

fcking slow

[opaque sigil]

conda is cool in theory if it wasn't so god damn slow

though i guess there's mamba for that

[clear sedge]

blyat

[quiet mirage]

just use uhhh

using namespace std;

[clear sedge]

use npm and node for everything

[quiet mirage]

js mentioned

[real sierra]

I used to use Lua for all my competitive programming

[clear sedge]

i hope your bread is soggy tonight.

[real sierra]

[clear sedge]

i hope it has mold

everywhere

[real sierra]

rain wth

[quiet mirage]

i hope u have sweet dreams

[clear sedge]

i hope your pillows are an uncomfortable temperature

[quiet mirage]

i dont use pillow

sad

[clear sedge]

you psychopath

[quiet mirage]

I DONT EVEN HAVE A BED HHHH

[opaque sigil]

mold my beloved

[quiet mirage]

lay on the floor

[clear sedge]

where do you SLEEP

[opaque sigil]

too bad it doesn't exist until it can compile the linux kernel

[clear sedge]

on the floor???

[quiet mirage]

yah

under the desk

or on my chair

[clear sedge]

first the sin of using namespace std

now this

[quiet mirage]

ok i have mattress but i dont like it

[quiet mirage]

man i only use C++ for competitive programming

[clear sedge]

are you competing to see who can get into android hell the quickest?

because that's how you get into android hell

[quiet mirage]

everytime i use C++ its like

#include <bits/stdc++.h>
#define int long long
#define ii pair<int,int>
#define fi first
#define se second
#define el '\n'
#define faster ios_base::sync_with_stdio(0); cin.tie(0); cout.tie(0)
#define oo 9000000000000000000

const int MAXN = 1e3+2;

using namespace std;

[real sierra]

is anyone looking for a part time position where they send candid professional replies to hate mail

[clear sedge]

why

[quiet mirage]

why not

[fast pagoda]

part time but still paid, you imply?

im in

[real sierra]

wonderful

I figure once I open the contest and everyone sees the source code

[opaque sigil]

[real sierra]

I'm probably not going to have time to respond to the flood of vulgar language

[fast pagoda]

oh i am great at pretending there was a reason for the cardinal sins present in a codebase

[clear sedge]

"it appears you have called me a `cunt`, may i inquire as to why you would use such profanity in such a manner? just making sure we're on the same page about your longtime goals and where you see yourself in 5 years on this path you have chosen"

[quiet mirage]

wanna see jumpscare

chat

boo

[tender river]

it exists called gc

[fast pagoda]

https://tenor.com/view/star-trek-bright-light-gif-12102399198230618243

[hard raptor]

Well.. the thing is, first of all. angular
And second.. not cursed enough

[clear sedge]

how i see python:

[quiet mirage]

python its just 3 line

[fast pagoda]

but angular has triangle

[quiet mirage]

or smth

[hard raptor]

Don't care

[real sierra]

what is this indentation

[fast pagoda]

ok what about Ansible playbooks instead

[hard raptor]

My silly stack better

[clear sedge]

single character name fields

my beloveds

[hard raptor]

Cuz SCSS webserver

And bash database

[quiet mirage]

IOI

yes

[fast pagoda]

https://hackaday.com/2025/09/15/hosting-a-website-on-a-disposable-vape/ host it on this

[hard raptor]

No

[quiet mirage]

wtf

[fast pagoda]

big ass embed

[clear sedge]

java if it was python

[quiet mirage]

possible?

[fast pagoda]

Puya PY32F002B MCU, which comes with a Cortex-M0+ core at 24 MHz, 3 kB SRAM and 24 kB of Flash.

[quiet mirage]

man

[fast pagoda]

the CPU

[quiet mirage]

with love

[quiet mirage]

right

nice vape

[sage crag]

phr

[rigid snow]

a disposable one btw

[clear sedge]

cool

[fast pagoda]

throw er in the landfill

[clear sedge]

now play doom on it

[real sierra]

when is next konii patch

still haven't fixed the phr bug

[fast pagoda]

https://www.reddit.com/r/itrunsdoom/comments/jxwlkb/not_the_full_game_but_doom_vape_was_told_to_post/

they done been trying

[clear sedge]

holy fuck

[quiet mirage]

anything but vaping

[rigid snow]

not a disposable one

[quiet mirage]

💔

[rigid snow]

isn't that a good thing..

[quiet mirage]

its a joke

[clear sedge]

vaping is a bad thing actually

[quiet mirage]

my country ban vape

[fast pagoda]

1984 i wnna die im finna die ya know

[rigid snow]

you will smoke cigarettes and you will like it

[quiet mirage]

chat wtf is ts

[fast pagoda]

gregante test

[quiet mirage]

i tried

bad

[rigid snow]

good answer

[clear sedge]

you will print python on a bit of paper and use it to roll a blunt
relish in the flames of unholiness

[quiet mirage]

its like smelling the exhaust pipe motorbike

and its feel dizzy idk

[hard raptor]

How you know greg is the father?

[clear sedge]

i'd never smoke personally

[rigid snow]

as someone who smokes, what

[fast pagoda]

easiest way to not smoke is to smoke like once when not drinking or anything else to make it appealing outside of the smoking

[clear sedge]

can't catch me smokin ever

i'm so good at not smoking

..drinking however

[quiet mirage]

idk cigarettes in my country smell bad

[real sierra]

i drink once or twice a year and would never smoke

[quiet mirage]

like very bad i cant smell them

[clear sedge]

my liver yearns for water

[fast pagoda]

usually the opposite is what is said - they smell good but not when burned

[quiet mirage]

i weak

cant even drink a cup

[rigid snow]

exhaust smells good

[fast pagoda]

for like 1 second

[quiet mirage]

i mean the old one

[clear sedge]

i mean if it's the 40% stuff yeah

you usually drink those in shots

[fast pagoda]

i do like gasoline/petrol smell

[quiet mirage]

many old motorbike here

[clear sedge]

or in my case, bottoms up and chase it with soda right after :3

[fast pagoda]

im gonna be like that that girl that drinks gasoline or whatever that fake mid 2000s show was

[quiet mirage]

and its smell like lead

[quiet mirage]

no i consume all

[clear sedge]

this is very related to programming hm yes

[quiet mirage]

i was like

[fast pagoda]

it's related via inheritence of the attributes of its parent discussion

[quiet mirage]

paralysis

[tender river]

tetO

[rigid snow]

i wish rules were less strict i would tell you about what people actually do with gasoline

[quiet mirage]

for whole day

[real sierra]

i think the best way to fix chess pin checking is to break the pin finder into pieces for each ray

[clear sedge]

as in kasane teto?

[real sierra]

and then they're split into separate bitboards so it should be easy to ensure things only move on the ray

[tender river]

no

[clear sedge]

you confuse me

[fast pagoda]

[rigid snow]

[quiet mirage]

tetotrue

[tender river]

as in the operator

[clear sedge]

am i too hungover to understand this

[tender river]

you aren't drunk enough

[clear sedge]

wrong

[rigid snow]

it's rule 3 that i'm concerned about not rule 4

[clear sedge]

i got TOO drunk actually

apparently yapped about wanting to open a tech repair shop

[fast pagoda]

[clear sedge]

i do not in fact wish to open a tech repair shop

[rigid snow]

MODS why is #programming baiting me into drinking on a workday

[clear sedge]

drinking is in our nature as programmers

[rigid snow]

ban everyone

[clear sedge]

duh

[real sierra]

sorry everyone

mint's orders

[clear sedge]

oh no

[fast pagoda]

Someone tell me why I'm about to drive to work (1 hour) to be there for 1 hour in a meeting and then drive back home

[real sierra]

I used to do that for class at the start of covid

[fast pagoda]

0/10

Although they getting billed 3 hours

Since it's my day off

[real sierra]

that's good at least

[solid bough]

What pics again?

[opaque sigil]

me when i get to travel 5 hours for a 15 minute meeting

[fast pagoda]

And I'm just so prudent going in

I'm busy fumbling my way through a PKGBUILD (very hard, elite level task ) I don't have time

[real sierra]

I feel terrible

I just want to go home honestly but I can't afford to miss these classes

[sage crag]

shimo go home after class

[real sierra]

I will

I just hope I don't throw up in class or something

[sage crag]

good luck

[stray dragon]

so, funny thing about the tokenizer: these three lines each count as "11 tokens"

[real sierra]

11?

[stray dragon]

yes.

it seems to ignore anything past STAGE for counting the tokens

not a comment bug this time

i have tested them in a compiler and even that last line works exactly as intended

lol?

[tender river]

can always patch tcount

[stray dragon]

noooo my infinite token exploit!!!!!!!

[real sierra]

tcount is

... something

you would think all the tree-sitter submodules work the same

so I don't get how they are this incompatible with one another

[olive sable]

so the meta strat is to break the token counter?

[clear sedge]

the meta strat is

[real sierra]

I'll see how far t can take it

[clear sedge]

hah

fart

[stray dragon]

doing this yields the exact same token count LOL

[stray dragon]

literally everything

and if you think i'm joking i'll prove it

[desert wave]

make a model larger and larger until token count overflows

[real sierra]

not that kind of token

[sage crag]

ye just put the whole program in the macro

[somber vine]

just work, onesignal!

[sage crag]

lol

just write your own tokeniser

this one is garbage

genuinely why does it need tree sitter to count tokens

[real sierra]

"just" write your own tokenizy

[sage crag]

just ignore language semantic rules

its incredibly easy to get a fair tokeniser this way

[real sierra]

it makes sense at some level, it uses tree sitter to parse the syntax tree and then extracts tokens from it

but yeah

[clear sedge]

#define PROGRAM \
int main() {\
  printf("wah");\
}

PROGRAM```

[real sierra]

problem is writing a tokenizer for every language

or that supports every supported language

[sage crag]

no its not they all use the same dialectical rules

[clear sedge]

that supports

every supported language

[sage crag]

symbol is token, ident is token

num is token

just write one

[real sierra]

if we did have our own tokenizer, we could make strings count for tokens according to their length

[tender river]

they are very different honestly

[real sierra]

so that'd be convenient

but yeah the specific symbols language use for things vary quite wildly

[clear sedge]

just have like two tokens

[tender river]

i think tcount just doesnt visit child nodes

surely an easy fix

[real sierra]

I don't speak rust so it's beyond me

[clear sedge]

one for new lines and one for everything else that you just split by spaces and arbitrarily call an identifier

[sage crag]

i disagree in terms of practical use

[clear sedge]

problem fixed

[fast pagoda]

you are cursed to oxidize

[sage crag]

you want a heuristic for the length of the program

we dont care about the exact token number

[real sierra]

I see

but I still think there will be edge cases based on language particulars

e.g. what you consider a delimiter may have different meaning for some languages

[sage crag]

just make ascii strings identifier tokens, split at whitespace, and any other char a token

[real sierra]

or what you consider a string

[tender river]

a+++++a

7 tokens?

[sage crag]

it will work for all languages to a reasonable degree

[real sierra]

call(1,2,3) 1 token?

[mighty nebula]

Anyone recommended a good python course?

[sage crag]

string delimiter meaningless since we want to get token inside string anyway

[clear sedge]

i hope python dies

[sage crag]

why would that be the case

[real sierra]

it ascii string with no whitespace

[opaque sigil]

did guido murder your family or what

[sage crag]

has symbol

[clear sedge]

python murdered my mother

[real sierra]

ascii

[clear sedge]

python murdered my father

it spat in my face

[real sierra]

[mighty nebula]

Why? Is less worse than C++

[clear sedge]

python

[mighty nebula]

I still have nightmares with that one

[clear sedge]

less worse than c++

i will find you

[real sierra]

anyway

I can certainly try when I get home

but I feel like nobody will like what I produce

[clear sedge]

i will come for you and force you to program in c++

until you understand its beauty

[real sierra]

"why did you do it this way"
"should be like this"

[mighty nebula]

It's beautiful but not for web

[sage crag]

ill write it

[real sierra]

10 years of adjusting tokenizer to match people's personal taste on what a token is

[sage crag]

and ignore all complaints

[tender river]

[stray dragon]

9 token bot

[sage crag]

except for language complaints

[stray dragon]

only thing i couldn't include was the include

[real sierra]

this probably does need patch yea

[stray dragon]

yeah LOL

[clear sedge]

what in unholy hell

[real sierra]

I would like to be able to identify actual strings in languages and tax them for their length

can make that lang specific, not hard

[clear sedge]

tax the rich strings!

[stray dragon]

for now i'll make sure my token count is PROPER by just doing a newline after each define

because just doing this makes everything (besides the other declares in there) appear to the tokenizer just fine

[sage crag]

m

[tender river]

i'm fixing tcount rn

[stray dragon]

thank you

now everyone else has a chance

[real sierra]

chayleaf the new official tcount maintainer

[sage crag]

riih

[real sierra]

what are these characters

tv static

[sage crag]

rewrite

it

in

[rigid snow]

hlang

[desert wave]

new competition: who can write an accurate token counter in the minimum number of tokens

[clear sedge]

token golfing

[real sierra]

my token counter is return 0;

it's 0 tokens long so I win

[sage crag]

iterators

[clear sedge]

mine is return -1;

so i win actually

[sage crag]

mine is ask the compilers how many tokens there are

[real sierra]

surely the compiler tells you

also this might kill C defines as a strategy

[clear sedge]

does one run c code through the preprocessor before token counting it

that would absolutely balloon the token count

[tender river]

no

one does not

[clear sedge]

darned shame

[real sierra]

if they did I'd be toast

[stray dragon]

same

[real sierra]

my code is about 50% larger without defines

[tender river]

no you would be shiro

[real sierra]

nuhuh

I'd change my name

[clear sedge]

even without defines

#include <stdio.h> and suddenly you have at least a thousand tokens

[obsidian mantle]

hmm

[real sierra]

true

[obsidian mantle]

my <vector> include is just 3 tokens

[opaque sigil]

3693 tokens for including stdio

[obsidian mantle]

i typed #include <stdio.h> in my file and its still +3 only

what do i do wrong

[opaque sigil]

nothing

i was talking about after calling the preprocessor

[obsidian mantle]

oh

[clear sedge]

god bless includes

[opaque sigil]

was just curious

[clear sedge]

i'm gonna do unistd.h, stdio.h, and stdlib.h >:D

[stray dragon]

in my case, it actually saved me tokens to uninclude other libraries

[real sierra]

I refuse to give up stdbool.h

[stray dragon]

you could include math.h for the pow(a,b) function, but why do that when you could just not include math.h and then use __builtin_pow(a,b) instead?

[opaque sigil]

use a c++ compiler and you get it for free (stdbool)

[clear sedge]

chat, the file is 70.3 kilobytes

[stray dragon]

small amount of text

[clear sedge]

now where is this mystical token counter

[real sierra]

I need math.h for log and sqrt

google rrsty tcount

it's something like that

[clear sedge]

i can't find it

all i see is something about iowa

[tender river]

https://github.com/RRethy/tcount/

[stray dragon]

smh, just use __builtin_log and __builtin_sqrt

[clear sedge]

delicious

[tender river]

what is this

ah yes preproc_arg

[clear sedge]

i mean it is a preproc_arg

[real sierra]

preproc_arg

[tender river]

it has zero child nodes

[real sierra]

compiler specific yucky

[trim valve]

i mean surely it makes sense