programming

[tender river]

old aur packages with electron 30 dep

[feral ledge]

it is from the AUR!

[tender river]

check for any of these

[feral ledge]

arduino-ide was a match. thank you! no longer making me remake electron every time :D
...it was a dependency for an old AUR package, wasn't it? I guess the idea was to check the Required by (73) section of the package

[tender river]

ye old package just delete

nix

[real sierra]

why wont it work

random function decides to not exist

why this function of all functions?

like i dont get it

at all

the function name comes lexicographically last, is that why?

sewers

[distant blaze]

My dear fiancee, this is the last place I expected you to go for linux help 😭 glad it worked for u tho certainly did not expect ot

[distant blaze]

o hihi

[tender river]

[feral ledge]

where ELSE

[real sierra]

chayleaf

halpppp

[distant blaze]

good point xD

[real sierra]

ffi

[tender river]

no elp

[distant blaze]

oh yeah that is my fiancee btw @real sierra

[real sierra]

[real sierra]

[distant blaze]

I forgot she was here

[real sierra]

nice to meet you

[tender river]

shiro i can help

[real sierra]

elp?

[tender river]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1072697081443131476/1397617611474468914/neuro_cheerleader.gif

you can do it shiro!

[distant blaze]

I can't beloeve I saw you text in neurocord

[tender river]

good luck

did that help?

[real sierra]

[distant blaze]

LMAO

[distant blaze]

YPU SHOULD MAKE A THINK BUBBLY FOR SILLICATE

[real sierra]

[distant blaze]

[real sierra]

[distant blaze]

WHAT

TRUE

TRUE

TRUE TRUE

[real sierra]

[distant blaze]

we are all silicate in our hearts

[real sierra]

ok this error is unbeatable

time to ask an llm

[distant blaze]

oh you're missing a library

it looks like

its trying to call a .so file that doesn't exist

[real sierra]

the file eixsts

[distant blaze]

the chess.zobris key is missing so uh

[distant blaze]

eitber your library is fucked

[real sierra]

yeah it says that function is missing

idk why

[distant blaze]

or you need to install it

yeah

reinstall the package

[real sierra]

the file is definitely being found because i didnt tell it that name

[distant blaze]

or update it

[real sierra]

found it on its own

[tender river]

readelf/objdump

[real sierra]

sewers

i made the package

[distant blaze]

WHAT

[real sierra]

there is no update

[tender river]

[distant blaze]

uhh, you might have a linking error

or you have a variable naming scheme issue

[real sierra]

i would love ways to narrow down which of those it is

and potentially fixes

[distant blaze]

well you can see what its looking for

so just ctrl + f through the file for it

[real sierra]

ctrl+f through the .so?

[distant blaze]

you made the .so didn't you?

so you must have the source code

[real sierra]

yeah but

yeah

[distant blaze]

ysah

[real sierra]

its in the source code

this is a function i wrote

its supposed to be here

[distant blaze]

and is it accessible?

like can you access the functions externally?

[real sierra]

as accessible as any other function

[distant blaze]

hmm

at this point you mighy wanna look through yhe object code

or recompile it

[real sierra]

ok nvm

its not just this one thats broke

its all the functions

[distant blaze]

oh

yeah

try making the functions public

@real sierra

recompile first

then if that doesn't work

[real sierra]

hold on

[distant blaze]

try making a function public

oh?

[real sierra]

i might be messing up the typedefs

[distant blaze]

right

[tender river]

no public/private in c

[distant blaze]

wasn't aware shiro was using plain c

[tender river]

no public/private in c++ method visibility is not about linking

[feral ledge]

ohh, CPython (Cython)! gonna use that for my next labwork, actually

[stray dragon]

@real sierra hey shampoo what will provided through the chess api, am i right to assume the function to check if a move is legal will be included?

[tender river]

it will include a function to get all available moves

[stray dragon]

perfect

[real sierra]

i have an early version of the header i can give you, one sec

[stray dragon]

yippee

[rigid snow]

aren't these not the same like at all

[real sierra]

if there's features you want added let me know and ill think about it

[distant blaze]

imagine chess if promotions weren't allowed

[real sierra]

i lose well before that point so not much changes for me

welp im gg i think

if i put the typedef before the struct def

then gcc complains about the typedef being incomplete

if i put the typedef after the struct def

then gcc complains about the typedef's usage in the struct

[tender river]

forward decl

[real sierra]

i cant

[tender river]

use struct by name without typedef

[real sierra]

cffi requires the type be fully specified in this weird string

unless i can uhh

[tender river]

struct A_ *a;
typedef struct A_ {
} A;

[real sierra]

i know what you're talking about

but im telling you i cant do it here

[real sierra]

wait did you just define the pointer first

[tender river]

[real sierra]

how does tthat even work

i dont need a pointer

i need the actual type

[tender river]

[real sierra]

?

[tender river]

pointer

[real sierra]

❌

[tender river]

shiro silly

[real sierra]

but the struct is a board

not a board *

they arent interchangeable

[tender river]

struct Board*

[real sierra]

breaking all my code

[tender river]

only one change

line 40

[real sierra]

didnt work

[tender river]

remove 23 also

[real sierra]

[tender river]

not typedef

[real sierra]

the typedef required

because the struct contains a Board *

cant define the struct without the typedef

[real sierra]

[tender river]

you can

typedef struct Board_ {
  struct Board_ *board;
} Board;

linked list

[real sierra]

so no *?

[real sierra]

yeah i thats what i had

?

[tender river]

ye depends on cffi impl too

no no

no

not Board*

struct Board*

[real sierra]

the rest of the code uses Board *

[tender river]

this one cant

not typedefd yet

[real sierra]

then where does the typedef go

oh wait

[tender river]

ask chatgpt to explan why struct Board* is required

[real sierra]

this is the type def

?

[tender river]

[real sierra]

[tender river]

typedef struct Board Board;
struct Board {
};

[real sierra]

add more Board

[real sierra]

same problem

[tender river]

remove struct Board*

switch to Board*

[real sierra]

no change

[tender river]

ye fix yourself

[real sierra]

joever

[opaque sigil]

[real sierra]

i fixed

vscode cant find the import

that's gonna get annoying

[sand lance]

Happy birthday

[tender river]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1059569601144442911/1376808276871745667/1NewMeow.gif

[sand lance]

🐻

[real sierra]

its actually working

FFI success

now to write a chess bot in python

no wait

this was supposed to be a wrapper module

right

[sage crag]

ye nice

[tender river]

you get bucket too

[sage crag]

noe

[rigid snow]

hi

[sage crag]

[rigid snow]

hae a good day bye

[real sierra]

reserved keyword...

[opaque sigil]

use (get|set)attr if you must

[real sierra]

ty

[sage crag]

mrmm

[opaque sigil]

sadly python doesn't have escaping for keywords afaik

though i guess it doesn't really matter, it gets annoying either way

[real sierra]

this is

super hard to implement

im so confused

they tell you how to cast from C pointers to ints

but not how to go the other way

[midnight sigil]

*int

[real sierra]

this is so half assed

i hope it just works first try

surely cffi doesnt do anything ungodly with char types

[opaque sigil]

[real sierra]

ok its done!

im

actually kinda shocked

it works

?

like it just

...works?

explain?

[tender river]

[real sierra]

it actually looks so elegant too

you would never know

that said idk if it leaks memory or anything

wow

that was actually incredibly easy

im a little shocked

[sage crag]

ye like konii say

trust konii

[tender river]

do not

[sage crag]

konii trustworthy

trusty

[tender river]

[sage crag]

i cam burst 250bpm in osu im incredibly trustworthy

[tender river]

[real sierra]

// Example C bot using the Chess API

#include "chessapi.h"
#include <stdlib.h>

int main(int argc, char *argv[]) {
    for (int i = 0; i < 500; i++) {
        // at the start of our turn, get the board
        Board *board = chess_get_board();
        // find all legal moves for the position
        int len_moves;
        Move *moves = chess_get_legal_moves(board, &len_moves);
        // play one at random
        chess_push(moves[rand() % len_moves]);
        // cleanup
        free(moves);
        chess_free_board(board);
        // end our turn
        chess_done();
    }
}

the sample C bot

# Example Python bot using the Chess API

from pychessapi import API
from random import randrange

for i in range(500):
    # get the current board
    board = API.get_board()
    # get all legal moves for the position
    moves = board.get_legal_moves()
    # play one at random
    API.push(moves[randrange(0, len(moves))])
    # end our turn
    API.done()

the sample python bot

[tender river]

not while true

[real sierra]

im starting to think the slowness might be worth it for all those tokens

[real sierra]

you never know

i dont think its possible for a chess game to last that long anyway, between the threefold repetition rule and the 50 move rule

[tender river]

do you kill process after game end

[real sierra]

great question

i have no idea what the tournament software does

it seems a bit jank

i just click buttons until it works

[tender river]

would be better to while !game_end

[real sierra]

i dont think the tournament software ever tells you when the game ends

you just dont recieve any more positions

the tournament software definitely manages the child process/thread so it probably kills the bot or something

[tender river]

[real sierra]

in theory it's supposed to be able to send commands for the bot to pause thinking and stuff but like

whos gonna implement that

😂

[sage crag]

ye too many tokens

[real sierra]

thats why i didnt bother

but yeah that was

ridiculously easy to implement

the pychessapi wrapper is 150 lines and most of them are just like

"yeah you know that function? do it"

the bootstrapping script is only 62 lines and most of it is a string with all the C defs

and thats the entire thing

[sage crag]

you can put it on one line

[real sierra]

looks nicer this way

[sage crag]

https://doc.pypy.org/en/stable/discussion/ctypes-implementation.html
apparently pypy supports ctypes

[tender river]

too long

[sage crag]

so you can jit python with c support

[real sierra]

this uses something called cdata under the hood

[sage crag]

might even be decently fast

[real sierra]

i try not to think about it

anyway this was like

most of the coding i had to do pre-tournament

[sage crag]

you can also straight up compile python using mojo

there are better ways of doing c ffi with mojo though since its compiled

[real sierra]

you can write that

i did my share

i rest now

still hunting for code reviewers

[sage crag]

the fun part is you dont need to

mojo is a strict superset of python

[real sierra]

reminds me of aparapi for java

[sage crag]

awa

[real sierra]

you wrap java code in some tags

and then it runs on gpu

[sage crag]

ye anyway i think you should run all python bots with pypy or something if ctypes works with it

since its free performance for those bots

[real sierra]

[sage crag]

maybe also try mojo compiler

[real sierra]

if they lose performance for using python thats kinda on them isnt it

authentic python experience

[opaque sigil]

Not yet

[sage crag]

[real sierra]

i made all of the code i wrote plenty fast

up to the end user to make their bot fast

dont susge me

[sage crag]

they cant control the speed of python

[real sierra]

my C bot can play moves in under 20ms

[real sierra]

they can by writing better code

[sage crag]

not help when python is 100x slower than c

[real sierra]

mojo will surely provide the competitive 100x speedup

[sage crag]

yes exactly that why you run it like that

[real sierra]

it wont

if they pick python thats a choice by them

comes with its ups and downs

[sage crag]

shirmo

[opaque sigil]

Let them suffer

[sage crag]

im gonna write gpu code

[real sierra]

sebastian lague said everyone had to write in C# whether they wanted to or not

python users should bow before me for my gracious nature

[sage crag]

im gonna brute force your chess games with pure gpu flops

[real sierra]

sometimes when i read python chat i like to think of myself as a goddess

[sage crag]

or im gonna write it in bash

i just cant decide

[tender river]

no ffi

[sage crag]

[tender river]

nonportable api

rewrite

[sage crag]

rewrite in posix shell

[real sierra]

works on my pc is fine, thats where all the submissions are running anyway 👍

[tender river]

cant use bash

[sage crag]

gonna write it in asm

[real sierra]

i will not run a random dll

soz

[sage crag]

not dll you assemble it

[real sierra]

[tender river]

[real sierra]

do you know my architecture

[sage crag]

x86_64_v3

[real sierra]

wtf

cpu doxxed

[sage crag]

[real sierra]

so

reduced instruction hblang

[sage crag]

hbvm

hblang language

it compile to x86_64-linux too

[real sierra]

i even have a logo idea for you

ok

you're gonna love it

so

lets say

you stripped the vm down to the bare essentials

and added some instructions for playing chess

needs a chess-themed name to differentiate it from the main hbvm yes?

so we call it...

h1vm

because

because h1 square

🔥 ?

and hb was for holey bytes

but 1 is a bit

so now its holey bits

[sage crag]

this is too well thought out

[real sierra]

i have been thinking of nothing but chess for like a week straight

this is just 1% of my power at this point

[sage crag]

[clever pike]

Idk why but this sort of reminds me of a total antagonist to this: The Void Linux OS. As The name was chosen randomly, and is Void of any meaning.

Honestly If I ever wrote chess bots, Id just Call them like "1200 bot" or something actually useful like that

[sage crag]

[real sierra]

ints banned

[sage crag]

ye use numpy ints

or something

[real sierra]

its just a silly rule

ill just say no storing code in variables to be executed by means you didnt write

[sage crag]

well you can use ctypes ints

[real sierra]

and then anyone who wants to write a bot that toes the line will get banned

[sage crag]

ctypes.c_int8

etc

[real sierra]

thats a pain to anyone using python

[sage crag]

is it really

[real sierra]

i dont want to force everyone to do that just because someone might abuse ints

that doesnt make any sense

[real sierra]

yes

[sage crag]

https://docs.python.org/3/library/ctypes.html#ctypes.c_int

phrr

[real sierra]

annoyance for ppl

and token loss

for no reason

it silliness

it a friendly contest i just keep rules simple

will be obvious if ppl are being dumb about it

[sage crag]

ye shimo right

[real sierra]

thank u

for being friend

writing code lonely sometime

it nice to have people to chat with

[sage crag]

i destroye

[real sierra]

[sage crag]

ye me sleep

[real sierra]

u know what

maybe i allow multiple file

[rigid snow]

i will write my chess bot in 70 js files with 500 npm deps and bundle with rollup esbuild webpack snowpack turbopack rspack browserify parcel and submit the result

[real sierra]

no external deps

stdlib only

[rigid snow]

not external if bundled

[real sierra]

token limit

[rigid snow]

what if the dependencies are each 1 token

[real sierra]

dependencies are external

[rigid snow]

nuh uh i’ll bundle and say i wrote it myself

[real sierra]

no internet connection either

[rigid snow]

you don’t understand

i’ll bundle and submit the output

like uhh the git repo is inside ./build

[real sierra]

im just gonna keep reading off the rules list until one of them ruins your idea

no executing stuff stored in variables with builtins (if you write your own VM its okay)

[rigid snow]

not what bundling does

[real sierra]

idk what bundling does

thats just a word

[rigid snow]

puts all of your imports into one file or folder

external deps too

[real sierra]

thats definitely over the token limit then

if its under the token limit tho then thats fine

i have no problem with you including external libs as part of your source code submission

but they have to be in your source

all files would also have to be valid js/ts, assuming i actually went to support it

[sage crag]

also strings banned

[real sierra]

strings not banned

[sage crag]

[real sierra]

just dont be dumb with them

[sage crag]

❌

[real sierra]

if i just banned konii i could remove half the rules

[rigid snow]

konii pls make up a few more ridiculous ways to abuse the rules

rules have to exceed the token limit itself to be perfect

[faint sandal]

ban strings

[real sierra]

💯

[hollow spruce]

"I can't work for a week because I had an accident. My right hand hurts a lot."

[amber fractal]

Man I was planning on abusing this

Storing an entire neural net in a single python int

Also numpy is still an external dep so your stuck with ctypes if you really want to. (Not like even that can stop me from cramming more into single values as I'd not be using all 64 bits anyways)

[amber fractal]

Also ban python annotations due to them being readable at runtime. (it is technically a string so should be covered)

[pulsar edge]

I can use C# right

[real sierra]

[pulsar edge]

:(

[real sierra]

is C# hard to support

[pulsar edge]

no

I can write a really thin wrapper for it

[real sierra]

the token counter supports it

if you write a wrapper, and i can figure out the build chain on my end, then sure

[pulsar edge]

build chain is dotnet publish && dotnet pack

[safe path]

can it support elisp

[pulsar edge]

I don think anyone would use C# though because it uses more tokens than C for equivalent code

plus C is faster

[real sierra]

vanor

[safe path]

shiwo

[real sierra]

these are all the langs the token counter supports

some less relevant than others

though if someone makes a latex bot that'd be impressive

[pulsar edge]

why is it sorted alphabetically by extension instead of lang name

[safe path]

insane behavior

[amber fractal]

64 int limit has nothing on me when I can use use an 8bit model and do some unpacking.

[real sierra]

well i will say

[pulsar edge]

shiro

[real sierra]

C can use 64 bit integers

[pulsar edge]

what cpu do you have

[real sierra]

so if you were storing at most 64 bits per integer

i have no issue with that

[real sierra]

ryzen 7 5700x

how much of that performance translates into the VM is a different question

[pulsar edge]

can I put an AVX512 instruction in my binary and cause your machine to hard crash 👉👈

[real sierra]

this is why i'm running it all in a vm

(no)

[pulsar edge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1173918619260944394.webp?size=48&name=Sadgi

[real sierra]

scrub

can you code review the api

[amber fractal]

You'd just get a Illiegal instruction error

[pulsar edge]

time to create a vm escape in 1024 tokens

[real sierra]

if you're writing a C# wrapper you may as well right

[pulsar edge]

shhh

[pulsar edge]

sssure

[real sierra]

[amber fractal]

@real sierra Can we allow strings if they are at or under 8 chars? (Python does use unicode tho so idk how that is going to work for them me)

[real sierra]

i dont think im actually gonna ban all strings

ill hand-check all submissions, given i have to compile them all anyway

pretty hard to hide that much data

regardless of how you stringify it

same goes for ints that fill about 50 screens worth in the horizontal direction

[hollow spruce]

LIFE update not Major damage

[real sierra]

[amber fractal]

I feel like 8 chars works well as you'd probably only use it for sumbiting moves or debugging anyways. Plus in most langs it is 64 bits

Just as a general guideline

[hollow spruce]

What servers updating rules?

[amber fractal]

Chess bot tourment

[real sierra]

i'll let it simmer but i really dont know that a limit is required

surely people wont be THAT adversarial

[amber fractal]

I wouldn't even say hardlimit, just a something that can be considered always safe (as your better off using an int anyways)

[real sierra]

"no single token should contain more than 64 bits of data" might be a good way to cap it

[pulsar edge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1144936231713636423.gif?size=48&animated=true&name=neuroDinkDonk

you heard it here first folks, you can't name a variable more than 8 chars

java users are in shambles

[opaque sigil]

simd in shambles

[pulsar edge]

and assembly kek

[opaque sigil]

Also it'd be 8 chars

[pulsar edge]

im tired

you're right

[real sierra]

it's fine there's already separate rules for not extracting info from variable names, class names, other metadata

[pulsar edge]

I'm gonna hide data in the pdb

(:

[real sierra]

I'm going to hide your wallet in a firepit

[pulsar edge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/889014281826369607.webp?size=48&name=NOOOO~1

[real sierra]

people here will come up with some novel exploit using a broken feature in the C tool chain to slide a giant neural network into chess, and then not write the bot that would use it

crazy to behold

[pulsar edge]

xd

[real sierra]

I still need to crunch my bot down below 1024 tokens

I'm running out of ideas for shrinking it though

it's already so tiny

[pulsar edge]

shiro

[real sierra]

yesh

[pulsar edge]

size doesn't matter

its ok

[real sierra]

size does matter

[pulsar edge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1101577030778236968.webp?size=48&name=Nooo

[real sierra]

that's like the main challenge of the contest

I've gotten it from 1450 or so down to about 1140

without loss of functionality

[olive sable]

Goodmorning

[real sierra]

Sam

I think I'm done all the code for the tournament

[olive sable]

I woke up early for something that is apparently on wednesday now

[real sierra]

Sam what languages do you know

in order of how much you like them

[olive sable]

i know TI-basic, 1/10

python is nice but very slwo, and no types, 6/10

C++ is fast, but writing header files is miserable, 8/10

[real sierra]

python does have support for types, it's just not strongly enforced

[olive sable]

ooh

[real sierra]

the code on this page, for example
https://mypy.readthedocs.io/en/stable/cheat_sheet_py3.html

[olive sable]

huh

interesting

[real sierra]

[hard raptor]

Assembly is simple, but you have to think like a computer, 10/10 would clank again

[olive sable]

dutch, 7/10
english, 6/10
french, 5/10

[hard raptor]

Why is dutch at the top

[olive sable]

because i prefer it

duh

[hard raptor]

I hate it lmao

[olive sable]

it has a lot less stupid rules than both english and french, so i like it

[hard raptor]

I prefer german and english second

Dutch is probably my most hated language next to java and lua

[olive sable]

[stray dragon]

<1000 tokens for a chess bot is actually rather doable (still missing some small features and proper troubleshooting but it's mostly done)

and that's with ~200 tokens being used to add a tiny 480 param neural network

[hollow spruce]

Yo

[stray dragon]

yo

[nocturne olive]

How silly
Meanwhile I can't even use the one language I would participate if I could use

[stray dragon]

i learned C specifically for this.

the basics of it, at least

[nocturne olive]

I know how to C slightly, I just don't feel like it if I can't use my main language

[stray dragon]

fair

[obsidian mantle]

NEURAL NETWORK????

[olive sable]

mhm

i think i fixed the fps issue in web for ai attorney

or well, i mostly just told them to downgrade to renpy 7.5.0 and fixed the code to not crash in that version

[nocturne olive]

I wonder what broke in later versions

[olive sable]

i could look into it, but i dont see the value in doing so

[nocturne olive]

It would be funny to fix it

[olive sable]

it would take days of work even figuring out what changed and ho it affected the web release

[trim valve]

days sounds excessive

[ivory plinth]

https://tenor.com/view/homelander-disappointed-disgusting-disgusted-looking-gif-6561690286467128067

[hollow spruce]

Ai project got delayed and I will chill for 5 days

[flint dome]

did someone else do this or did it just pull up by itself

[olive sable]

they went from python 2.7 to 3.12, they changed the graphics pipeline, they changed memory managment, and a bunch of other stuff

in renpy 7.5 they compile python for web via transcrypt, in 8.4.1 they use emscripten iirc

[trim valve]

ah yeah that's a massive pain then

[olive sable]

i could probably figure out what exactly broke, but i dont get paid enough for this

[stark needle]

this mic effect is so funny

[olive sable]

bro sounds like he's in the sewers

[olive sable]

nah thats definitely what being in the sewers sounds like

[rigid snow]

better

[olive sable]

POV

[faint sandal]

permitted by the repo owner but it'll do this to all PR in the repo

[trim valve]

@real sierra is there currently a rust api for your chess thing?

[hard raptor]

I for the funsies put GTA V at max graphics settings and right after the game loaded the fps dropped to like 10 but a few minutes later it stabilized at 50-60 FPS (this is still on the Ryzen 9 7900X iGPU)

[rigid snow]

you have to specify now

legacy or whatever they call the graphics upgrade

[olive sable]

having it stabelize over full minutes is a bit weird

[rigid snow]

i assume the latter because an igpu this new on a game from 2013 should be able to push more than 60

[olive sable]

im assuming its vram limited

[hard raptor]

Legacy technically.. but it was on FiveM

[rigid snow]

oh fivem

[hard raptor]

Which adds its own improvements

[rigid snow]

you can't even compare singleplayer vs gtao performance

since it's so drastically different

fivem is going to be its own thing

[hard raptor]

I mean.. i was hosting the server on the same pc

[rigid snow]

yeah i'm talking graphics wise only

[hard raptor]

Okay fair

[rigid snow]

on legacy i am getting like 150 fps in singleplayer and like 40 in online

2060

ok maybe not 150 that seems ridiculous

more like 80-90

mostly talking out of my ass rn since i haven't played in ages

[hard raptor]

I mean.. i can reach 150 FPS if i actually try

I also don't play too often actually

[flint dome]

shoot the repo owner for enabling it

[rigid snow]

i mean that i don't remember how much fps specifically but i remember the difference between singleplayer and online being crazy

prime example, gtao on ps4

not "literally unplayable" as a hyperbole, like actually literally unplayable

10 fps

[stark needle]

[hard raptor]

For me the difference isn't too bad tbh

[rigid snow]

assets take forever to stream in

[rigid snow]

you added delay not reverb

[stark needle]

I ADDED BOTH

[hard raptor]

But that's also maybe because i usually don't care too much for graphics settings and adjust them constantly to make the experience as best as possible

[rigid snow]

yes but you should have added more reverb

[hard raptor]

I mean... reverb is just emulating a lot of instances of delay all placed in different spots, and all relatively short

[rigid snow]

[hard raptor]

Though there is that one plugin that really does it well with raytracing and stuff that i still wanna try out

But imma need a threadripper build for that

[rigid snow]

but why

when you have convolution reverb

[hard raptor]

I mean... i use different kinds of reverb for different results

[rigid snow]

modulating the room parameters

[faint sandal]

you'll never guess who owns the repo

[hard raptor]

Now i probably don't need the fancy ray tracing reverb for my silly lead

But it would be funny

[rigid snow]

no no what i mean is you can have any room with convolution reverb

[hard raptor]

Room yes

But there are more properties to consider

Also i love modulating the heck out of every reverb parameter to create wierd sounds

[rigid snow]

so i was right

[hard raptor]

Love how they put a pic of Pro-R for the valhalla software as well

[hard raptor]

No i meant more like the different properties like plate, tape, vintage etc

[rigid snow]

but why do you need ray traced for that

[stark needle]

RTX reverb

[hard raptor]

Never said i needed that one for that purpose

I said i wanted to try the raytracing reverb for the funsies

[stark needle]

how expensive is the raytracing reverb

[olive sable]

ah yes
pc with 3090
browser exstension: "nah thats a GTX 980, trust me"

[rigid snow]

and i said that you should be able to replace it with convolution reverb, at runtime at least, like throw an impulse into the rt reverb and you have an IR of the room you want

[flint dome]

you must do what must be done

[rigid snow]

so having a baller pc isn't a requirement

wait you know how cubemaps work

[hard raptor]

Convolution reverbs are ass imo

[rigid snow]

what if the same but with rt audio and IRs

[hard raptor]

At least the traditional ones

[rigid snow]

for games

[faint sandal]

it's owned by mandiant which is owned by google

[rigid snow]

ableton hybrid reverb is goated

[flint dome]

another day, another reason to hate google

[hard raptor]

Ehh.. it works better than ableton vocoder for colorbass stabs ig

[rigid snow]

but that's not the purpose

i'm not talking about that

[hard raptor]

I know

It's just my opinion

[olive sable]

one of my browser exstensions is fucking up my yt

[hard raptor]

Wait imma find yt video of the silly reverb i was talking about tho

Gimme a few hours

https://youtu.be/_sV0mVuv-bE

[rigid snow]

if you want my opinion as someone who actually kinda makes the genre, this is what sounds best for that imo

1. whatever chroma by xynth audio & nasko does
2. resonators
3. pitchmap/retune/etc
4. vocoders
5. IRs

in order

[hard raptor]

Yeah no shit

[rigid snow]

what do you mean no shit i contradicted you

[hard raptor]

You can't contradict an opinion tho

Just if only thing you had is ableton stock stuff

The hybrid reverb vocodes better than thr vocoder

[rigid snow]

i am esl pls be patient

[hard raptor]

Whut?

[rigid snow]

i do feel like contradict isn't the word but i don't know any that fit better

[hard raptor]

But pitchmap is da goat

[rigid snow]

i still love how resonators sound more

and it's very easy to sound like pitchmapcore with pitchmap

needs to be used very carefully mhm

[hard raptor]

Alr, let's make some track when i get home and slap way too much autotune on the vocals

Especially if i can do that with another musical warcrime commonly called future bass

[olive sable]

nope, not a browser exstension thing, specificzlly only happens on my main account

its youtube doing this to me

either my account is flagged for some reason, or its one of those UI change tests

[trim valve]

you're gonna have to define "fucking up my yt"

[olive sable]

it kinda looks like this now

no channel, no subscribe button, no comments

no date, no views

[rigid snow]

youtube zen mode

[olive sable]

i never asked for this, i want it back

[opaque sigil]

congrats, you get the (dis)pleasure of partaking in one of their A/B tests

[olive sable]

NOOOOOOOO

can i not?

[trim valve]

you can solve this problem by not using youtube for a week and seeing if its fixed later

:3

[olive sable]

there is already a thread in the help thingy with 37 other poor bastards

[faint sandal]

beaned

[olive sable]

i tried an exstension that changes the alyout, but it seems like the back-end is just not suplying the amount of views and stuff

[maiden geyser]

golden lock award

[olive sable]

welp, i just sent them a strongly worded feedback

[trim valve]

I'm sure they'll listen

[opaque sigil]

if you feel like dealing with that can of worm there's probably a flag somewhere in their js script you could toggle with ublock or sth

[olive sable]

nah

unless its not too hard

[sage crag]

[olive sable]

i bought the calibration mic for my avr, im pretty much entirely through my monthly budget now

[sage crag]

ye bad at finances

put in savings account

[olive sable]

it was only 30 bucks

[olive sable]

that is probably smart

ill put the money from next month in saving, partialy

[real sierra]

nope

[trim valve]

is the c api anywhere?

[rigid snow]

you should invest everything into highly volatile meme crypto coins

[olive sable]

i mean, if there are any good investments rn

[rigid snow]

please don't actually do that

[olive sable]

ye not crypto

[real sierra]

I've sent the C header file here a couple times I think

[rigid snow]

meme stocks aren't any better

[real sierra]

get the latest one

[olive sable]

if i put my money into something it wont be for memes

[real sierra]

not sending the rest until I make sure it's production ready

[olive sable]

https://tenor.com/view/programming-rust-c-lang-cpp-cplusplus-gif-26743262

[real sierra]

bred will not want to rewrite this

trust me

bindings are the way to go

[trim valve]

<1024 token full rewrite is surely possible

[maiden geyser]

"no one will understand the code but it's le "secure" tho"

[real sierra]

the C API is 1700 lines

[verbal grove]

morning fellow programmers

[olive sable]

[trim valve]

not understanding rust is a skill issue clearly

[real sierra]

rust definitely supports c bindings

it should be pretty easy too

can't be harder than pyo3

[verbal grove]

wait what's the topic i cant do tldr anymore

[real sierra]

rust bindings for the chess api

I think

[verbal grove]

dam

[real sierra]

that or bred wants to rewrite it in rust

which is an insane task

[verbal grove]

rewrite chess in rust?

[real sierra]

ah

[verbal grove]

or rewrite the chess api in rust?

[real sierra]

have I not proselytized you about my chess api

[verbal grove]

probably not

im burning tokens rn so im multitasking

[olive sable]

proselytized

[real sierra]

I'm planning to host a mini chess bot tournament here

[verbal grove]

hmmmmmmmmmm

[real sierra]

where you write a chess bot and then they all face off in a tournament

[verbal grove]

when?

[real sierra]

so I wrote a nice API for it to sit on top of

[olive sable]

convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another.

chess api religion

[trim valve]

just bindings dw

[real sierra]

no dates fixed yet but I was aiming to start at the end of the month and then have submissions open until November

[verbal grove]

alright shiro expect my submission

[real sierra]

I will say I can't support every language

[verbal grove]

wait are llm's snn's etc allowed?

[real sierra]

Python and C currently supported

yes, but

there is a token limit on your submission

it must not exceed 1024 tokens

part of the challenge

[verbal grove]

that is small

[real sierra]

tokens being lexer tokens here, not LLM tokens

[verbal grove]

ohhhh

well then i can just use the chess bot i got

[real sierra]

?

[verbal grove]

i was bored

i made an SNN that can play chess

and it doesnt use any lexer tokens from what i remember

[real sierra]

I probably have to explain this better

[verbal grove]

probably

[real sierra]

when I say lexer tokens I mean how your language interprets your source code

most if not all languages break them down into meaningful chunks

[verbal grove]

o.o

oh... well now it is a challange

[real sierra]

e.g. int x = 1; -> ["int", "x", "=", "1", ";"]

[verbal grove]

yep

[real sierra]

as you can see, it's easy to burn through tokens

[verbal grove]

guess c++ is going to be my choice of language

or html. il have to see

[real sierra]

c++ should be supported since the API is in C

but I'm not 100% sure

[verbal grove]

you will have to send me the api to check for that

c++ is just C with extra steps after all

(and i still need to gcc compile)

[real sierra]

#programming message

[verbal grove]

i just realized a way to check for how lazy a developer is

[real sierra]

here's an early version of the C header

[verbal grove]

dont see any meaningful issues there

should be supported

[real sierra]

awesome

[verbal grove]

👍

i code in c++/c/.h mostly

so it shouldnt be hard for me

[real sierra]

the token counter supports C++ and I should be able to build it too

so I don't see any issues with you using it

[verbal grove]

should be possible

and i just got spooked

[real sierra]

?

[opaque sigil]

shiro does it have to be cpu only code

[real sierra]

yes

[verbal grove]

everytime vscode fetches an error when trying to build/compile files manually i get a beep

[real sierra]

I don't know what "GPU" my VM even has

if any

[opaque sigil]

[verbal grove]

and i forgot to disable that before running my 20 agents to bugfix since im lazy

[real sierra]

I think the rules already state no parallel execution or threading

so gpu falls under that

[verbal grove]

good

[opaque sigil]

ah

[verbal grove]

how much cpu can i use?

[real sierra]

all of it

[verbal grove]

is there a limit to that

:3

how many core's we're talking?

[real sierra]

on your thread, use as much as you want

there's a ram limit, don't try to find it

[verbal grove]

ah so only one thread

[real sierra]

yeah single threaded

[verbal grove]

what is the range of ram im allowed to use

since i already have a plan

[real sierra]

you can probably safely use up to 4GB ish

should be lots

[verbal grove]

thats quadruple of what i need

[real sierra]

there's a host of other rules too

but I'm not gonna share all of them because you're not technically supposed to start yet anyway

[verbal grove]

optimization is normally my department so i got what i need now ¯_(ツ)_/¯

that bot is gonna be 200 lines max

[real sierra]

the contest might start earlier than end of Sept if I can get this API tested and code reviewed by then

[real sierra]

yeah pretty much

the bot I wrote is like 200 ish

[verbal grove]

alright then

[real sierra]

and still over the limit

used every trick in the book to shrink it

[outer dock]

Hi, I'm a biologist and trying to make connections with other stem people

[verbal grove]

well the bot im gonna make is use ram as extra cpu if i do it right

[real sierra]

welcome to the nerd den

[rigid snow]

[real sierra]

@tight sparrow is also a biologist

[verbal grove]

sadly aint a stem person but i know a few people

[verbal grove]

[outer dock]

Like idc i need friends too

[verbal grove]

btw @real sierra you probably have not tried every trick in the book

what did you code your bot in?

[real sierra]

C

[verbal grove]

is it a code limit or just generally using too much performance

[real sierra]

my code is too big

[verbal grove]

ah

well that sucks

[real sierra]

ikr

[verbal grove]

yk i could probably code that bot in straight bash if i do it right

[real sierra]

I've replaced almost every loop definition and pointer type with a #define symbol to save tokens

[verbal grove]

damm

[real sierra]

shaved off 300 tokens but still too big

need smaller

[verbal grove]

does it actually read the board?

[outer dock]

Is it okay to type here general questions and stuff related to carrier choices idk ?

[verbal grove]

all technical talk here only

[real sierra]

career choices you mean?

this channel is mostly meant for programming-related discussions

[rigid snow]

carrier choices are probably fine, career ones idk

[real sierra]

oh right

[verbal grove]

actually shiro i have a question

[real sierra]

I use Rogers

[olive sable]

[real sierra]

what's up

[verbal grove]

is using agents for debugging a sin?

[real sierra]

you can do whatever for debugging

[rigid snow]

using agents is a sin

[real sierra]

idk what agents are tho

[verbal grove]

;w;

ai agents

[rigid snow]

llm

[verbal grove]

i make my own llm's and stuff

[real sierra]

oh...

well uh

yeah go for it

[olive sable]

when i get an error and i don't understand it i happily give it to chatgpt, but i try to use my brain too

[verbal grove]

yeah i have 800+ files to debug and agents are fun

500 git worktree's 50 agents eating my tokens

[real sierra]

I google my error and a stack overflow post from 11 years ago fixes everything

[olive sable]

chatpgt can do that for me

it only costs 200 litres of water

[outer dock]

Okay its kinda programming related -.-. i know nothing about programming, but is it worth to learn python at least because i get asked a lot if i know it or not in biotechnology related jobs

[real sierra]

I think it's worth it

[verbal grove]

ive seen too much "fix build system compilation" errors today so i span up agents

[real sierra]

it can be very useful for processing data in some fashion and crunching numbers

[verbal grove]

learning python is a good idea

also if biotechnology also has implants and prostetics in the category then you want to know python

[olive sable]

python is not too difficult and widely used so id say its worth it

[real sierra]

if you have any automated sources of data that you work with, python is an accessible way to comb through it all

[verbal grove]

or you could do it the hard way and make an algorithm in C/c++ to do most of the data crunching and filtering

(wich i do not advise but its a choice you can make)

[real sierra]

definitely harder and not the use case for C

[verbal grove]

very much so

then again most of the applications i made myself are in assembly

because i want it that way

brb agents just said they're finished

[outer dock]

hmm i'd say i should say i do know it then fast learn it if i got an interview

[rigid snow]

if my then 7 year old brother can randomly show me python code he wrote then it's not that hard to get a hang of it and you should too

[outer dock]

I mean they teach it in schools nowadays yes but not my time