programming

[real sierra]

trying to connect a convenient and easy-to-use interface to a UCI server is like trying to plug a puzzle piece into an outlet

this file is doing an incredible amount of heavy lifting

but it could probably be split into two parts if im being honest

[real sierra]

just discovered i havent been incrementing halfmoves

that explains a lot

makes way more sense

[hollow spruce]

Im test new this in this account soon this account will be autobot

Test complete again

Reaction ✓

Add ai to this account
Embedded permission
Much more
It will do reaction only

( Now I have stop program)

[real sierra]

someone please free() me

[olive sable]

free(Shiro)
undefined reference to Shiro

[jagged turtle]

"tf is a shiro" - compiler

[olive sable]

[real sierra]

help

how to randomly make moves in chess and not draw

[olive sable]

luck

its random, what did you expect?

[real sierra]

why does it work for everyone else then

this paper managed to get-

500 elo?

..thats it?

ok

i think the move is

in case of stalemate

[hollow spruce]

Yo @real sierra what about chess bot ?

[real sierra]

check who has more material left

and they are the winner

[hollow spruce]

Fine ,good , poor , or worst

[real sierra]

fine

no more bugs

i am now working on improving the actual bot

[hollow spruce]

Mem leaking fixed @real sierra

Memory leaking is fixed

[real sierra]

fixed!

no mem was leaking though, it was other problems

i have never had a memory leak so far

🎊

[olive sable]

yet

[hollow spruce]

Maybe I need update gpp from msys2 module

[real sierra]

counting pieces with bitboards...

that's going in the bitboard library

no that's cheating

[hollow spruce]

Mem edit

[olive sable]

the naive solution is to just loop over every position and do storedValue += i

[hollow spruce]

😂

[real sierra]

it works but its pain

[hollow spruce]

OLD VALUE,+ NEW VALUE

[real sierra]

but idk a better way

i just hate that i have to do it for like

16 bitboards

12*

[hollow spruce]

It means (GUI)

Graphical user interface

[real sierra]

🤯

[olive sable]

#include <bit>
#include <cstdint>
#include <iostream>

int main() {
    uint64_t board = 0b101101...; 
    int count = std::popcount(board); 
    std::cout << count << "\n"; // prints 4
}

supposedly

[real sierra]

sam

that's c++...

[olive sable]

fuck

[hollow spruce]

#include <iostream>
using namespace std;

void Shiro();

int main() {
    Shiro();
    return 0;
}

[real sierra]

I'M DECLARED

[olive sable]

im too used to c++

[real sierra]

the chess programming wiki probably has some insane assembly implementation

[hollow spruce]

May be c is faster learn based

Soory c#

[olive sable]

nah i still prefer C++

bad c++ code will be slower than c code tho

[olive sable]

is __builtin_popcountll also c++?

[real sierra]

wait wtf is this

int popCount (U64 x) {
    x =  x       - ((x >> 1)  & k1); /* put count of each 2 bits into those 2 bits */
    x = (x & k2) + ((x >> 2)  & k2); /* put count of each 4 bits into those 4 bits */
    x = (x       +  (x >> 4)) & k4 ; /* put count of each 8 bits into those 8 bits */
    x = (x * kf) >> 56; /* returns 8 most significant bits of x + (x<<8) + (x<<16) + (x<<24) + ...  */
    return (int) x;
}

?

[hollow spruce]

Let me explain to u 🙂

[real sierra]

k1-k4 are constants:

const U64 k1 = C64(0x5555555555555555); /*  -1/3   */
const U64 k2 = C64(0x3333333333333333); /*  -1/5   */
const U64 k4 = C64(0x0f0f0f0f0f0f0f0f); /*  -1/17  */
const U64 kf = C64(0x0101010101010101); /*  -1/255 */

idk how it works but im trusting the process

[olive sable]

do a test i guess

[hollow spruce]

👾

[olive sable]

__builtin_popcountll should work in C

its a gcc and clang thing or something

MSVC has __popcnt64

[hollow spruce]

It does

[pulsar edge]

yeah anything __ or builtin is usually compiler specific

gcc and clang often share builtins

but its still bad practice to use them unless you account for multiple compilers

the upside of using the built in popcount is that it'll evaluate to the POPCNT x64 instruction which'll be faster than the biomass magic shiro found online

[real sierra]

ok that popcount function doesnt work

or i implemented it wrong

[pulsar edge]

just use the builtin

and have an ifdef for MSVC to remain portable

[real sierra]

implemented it wrong

the 3rd line moves the & k outside the brackets

working now

ok

lets see how this fares

[pulsar edge]

shiro you should sleep

[real sierra]

oh shit

its playing the craziest chess ive ever seen

actually plays kinda insane

i wanna see another game of that

that seems pretty sensible no?

other than the dim knight

well theres still some bugs but this is good enough for me to play chess against already

i lost on time

it think fast

even if it dont think good

https://gyazo.com/5d39b855c74599aa8c9491481a7a5e06.gif

bot did its job, found a new bug

something with check checking

ok last thing before bed

i wanna see how this token counter works

[olive sable]

spoiler, it doesn't

[real sierra]

gotta install the entire rust toolchain to build it

[olive sable]

if slay the princess uses renpy, and it doesnt have issues witht he fps being wrong, then did they customize the engine, or did a recent update break the rendersystem? maybe its cuz it runs locally that nobody notices its broken? its possible nobody purposefully set it to 30 fps

[faint sandal]

new clickfix instructions

https://fxtwitter.com/solostalking/status/1966422069719236743/photo/1

Raaz (@solostalking)

Clickfix
︀︀New instructions !!!!!!!
︀︀128[.140.70.83[:8080

**💬 5 🔁 15 ❤️ 90 👁️ 8.3K **

FxTwitter · Sep 12, 2025, 8:42 AM

[real sierra]

ddlc uses renpy

[olive sable]

ive only played ddlc once

for like 45 minutes

[real sierra]

i played it when it came out, before i got to see any playthroughs

sayori was my favourite...

[olive sable]

oh damn, you got the aurthentic experience

[real sierra]

authentic nightmares

[faint sandal]

we're getting a DDLC maid cafe collab here

[olive sable]

i closed the game at that scene and never opened the game again

[real sierra]

are you participating

[faint sandal]

https://www.threads.com/@tukuyomi_taipeistation/post/DOdoRgvkosb

[real sierra]

wtf its real

[faint sandal]

yea i think there's one in korea too

[real sierra]

dan salvato really had a golden goose

[olive sable]

knowing the rest of the game that is rather ironic, since the only reason that event occurred is cuz monika wanted to spend more time with the player

[real sierra]

are rust installs always this slow https://gyazo.com/d1a09def4140c2f14f09154e7a4ea66c.gif

[olive sable]

im sure its fine

[faint sandal]

cargo space

[real sierra]

random repository with a billion dependencies

hasnt been touched in 4 years

surely none of these are compromised

my mcts code too big

but it nice to know token counter work

@real sierra this is the token counter

no not that

@real sierra https://github.com/RRethy/tcount/tree/master

[hollow spruce]

??????????

Install rust 🙂

[faint sandal]

????

[hollow spruce]

Translate me please

[faint sandal]

^

[hollow spruce]

https://youtube.com/shorts/SIpBwRtvbaY?si=1byvBXCWYMSuMd9k

[maiden geyser]

source identifier

[amber fractal]

-# Noted, if I get my NN done before chess is over, I should be able to easily be able to be under token limit as long as I don't mind doing some parsing first.

something something arbitrary length python ints

This AI was not trained on integrals sorry for your inconvience

[maiden geyser]

oh, nvidia also fixed text encoding issues

[olive sable]

my phone broke

no touschreen input

[hollow spruce]

How ?

[hollow spruce]

Reason

[olive sable]

i used it, and it stopped responding to touch

like idk

[hollow spruce]

Restart phone

[warped narwhal]

Restart phone

[olive sable]

it does respond to the sidebuttons so its not nonresponsive

[warped narwhal]

Hold the side button for 10 secs

[olive sable]

physically impossible without touch input

[warped narwhal]

It will force it off

[hollow spruce]

Hold (volume down + power button for 10 Second )

[olive sable]

nope

[hollow spruce]

Or type !reboot in command prompt

[rigid snow]

did it finally give up

[warped narwhal]

Without a keyboard

[maiden geyser]

for 10 what

[olive sable]

i can hold down the power button for a full minute and it wont restart

[rigid snow]

that should work tho

[olive sable]

no

[rigid snow]

maybe volume up

i don't remember

[hollow spruce]

Type of phone

[olive sable]

a52

smasnug

[warped narwhal]

Vol down plus power for 7 secs

[hollow spruce]

Leave phone

[olive sable]

volume down + power worked

[hollow spruce]

Then try again

[olive sable]

nah its fully charged that would take hours

it works again now tho

just needed to restart

[hollow spruce]

Most used command in android was
!shutdown

And !restart or reboot

[olive sable]

Wdym command?

My phone doesnt have a console nor did the keyboard work

I might buy a new phone soon i guess

[hollow spruce]

scrcpy
Too is soo use full

[hollow spruce]

Close app

[olive sable]

Its system UI

The whole ui

[hollow spruce]

Closed it

And wait

[olive sable]

You cant close the system

[opaque sigil]

You actually can

[hollow spruce]

Close it bro and wait

[opaque sigil]

Maybe not from this screen

[olive sable]

Well yes but it just restarts again

[opaque sigil]

Yup

[hollow spruce]

Close app
Bro

And wait

[olive sable]

No app is open

Its the system

whats happening in vc rn?

[hollow spruce]

Close it bro and
Song playing

In https://discord.com/channels/574720535888396288/1067400152698077194

[rigid snow]

cdawg canvas

we're listening to music

to covers i mean

uhh

[hollow spruce]

Type !eilv

[rigid snow]

expect this to last one week

[stark needle]

ok shiro i was able to reduce alphazero to 574 parameters

this MAY become feasible

[rigid snow]

574 parameters

[stark needle]

it's training rn

it's hyper oversimplified

i'm training on 100 million chess games rn

[hollow spruce]

574 parameters too much

[maiden geyser]

imposter among us

[maiden geyser]

what's happening in https://discord.com/channels/574720535888396288/1067400152698077194 anyway

[rigid snow]

can you read bruh

scroll up a bit

or you can join and find out too

[maiden geyser]

there's nothing "up" cro

[rigid snow]

💔

[maiden geyser]

just neuro fm thing

[rigid snow]

here

[maiden geyser]

i join and there's just music playing and some guy doing something on some chinese neuro wiki

[rigid snow]

#cdawg-canvas

[hollow spruce]

Test complete feeding brainrot in llm

Ai making ✅
Training -
Fixing after training -
Post traning -

Atleast I know that mods are sleep

[rigid snow]

this is fine

it's in relation to the flag drawing on the canvas

which is getting "bombed"

context is important

[hollow spruce]

Yo @rigid snow

[olive sable]

Cloudburst getting pinged for no reason

[hollow spruce]

Back up in process i can't use desktop

Sorry for pin no reason cloudburst

[sage crag]

dont delete pings, makes it very confusing

it shows up as a ping but the message is missing

[stark needle]

i got the new gumi voice

much better

[nocturne olive]

New Gumi? You mean for SynthV?

[stark needle]

ye

gumi v2 came out

[nocturne olive]

Well, I don't have SynthV nor can I run SynthV 2, even if I could afford it, so I've got no use for that
I'll just use NeuroSynth

[stark needle]

i like gumi v2 much more

gumi v2 is much more clear

[olive sable]

its clipping i think

This is like 10hz tho so its not normal operating cinditions

Eh i dont feel like fixing it

[stark needle]

bro went to war

can still hear gunshots

[olive sable]

[hollow spruce]

My old scooter

[hollow spruce]

Gumi ? What is that'

[nocturne olive]

Gumi is a vocal synthesizer

[real sierra]

that sounds cool as heck

[olive sable]

Shadow realm

[real sierra]

how do I shrink c code

to be fewer tokens

it's kinda hard to make it take up less space

I guess I use #define everywhere instead of functions?

[stark needle]

what's the token limit shiro

[real sierra]

haven't decided yet

either 1024 or 2048

[stark needle]

what is a token

[real sierra]

first step in any compiled and most interpreted languages is to parse the source code into tokens to form a syntax tree

where a token is a single unit of code that has some associated "meaning"

e.g. int x = (1+2)*3; --> ["int", "x", "=", "(", "1", "+", "2", ")", "*", "3", ";"]

[stark needle]

yea i might be cooked then

[real sierra]

as you can see the token count rises quite quickly

[stark needle]

this is the pure forward function for a convolutional layer

[real sierra]

surely some of those loops can be combined

and you just do arithmetic to derive the components

e.g. combining o and y

into say, oy

and then oy = 0; oy < (l->o)*out->h;

[stark needle]

i need to do this

[real sierra]

and o = oy / out->h; y = oy % out->h;

[stark needle]

wait gif dead

[real sierra]

I'm not suggesting changes to how your code functions

just changes to how it's written

[stark needle]

https://tenor.com/view/neural-network-machine-learning-convolutional-neural-networks-filter-application-in-cnn-gif-26574552

sure if i pass it to the magical gemini 2.5 pro it somehow can optimize it

[real sierra]

also you might be able to implement this really efficiently using the bitboards the API will provide

then you could just slide a mask across it

[stark needle]

wtf is this shit

[real sierra]

now that's much more efficient

terrible choice of names tho

maybe remind it that variable name length doesn't affect lexer token count

[real sierra]

I'm most likely using this to count tokens, if you want to check

[stark needle]

IT WORKS

[real sierra]

at least two people doing neural net stuff now

idk if my bot can compete

[olive sable]

Ye idk either

[wet jewel]

Anyone have a second?

[maiden geyser]

javascript be like

[maiden geyser]

even a billion of them, i hope

[wet jewel]

To spare I mean ;^ ^

I am following a guide on learning the baisics of python, when I noticed that I was being prompted with
"Python was not found; run without arguments to install from the Microsoft Store, or Disable this shortcut from settings > app > advance app setting > app execution aliases."

[maiden geyser]

where do you get that message? in cmd? after typing "python"?

[wet jewel]

I got it both in my CMD and Python

but I got it after typing

python --version
in cmd

and just trying to run the project "Helloworld❤️" in python

"Python was not found; run without arguments to install from the Microsoft Store, or disable this shortcut from Settings > Apps > Advanced app settings > App execution aliases."

[maiden geyser]

install python from python.org and click whatever called "remove PATH length limit" during installation

[wet jewel]

Yeah

I did that earlier

but still no luck.

[maiden geyser]

have you tried reinstalling windows? /s

[wet jewel]

Re-installing windows? Wouldn't that wipe out everything?

[nocturne olive]

If you do an in-place install no actually

[wet jewel]

:x

I fixed it

but thanks

[maiden geyser]

how?

[wet jewel]

It turned out that the shell was giving me an option to either run it though the store or disable the shell prompt for the application.

Hello World ❤️

[hollow spruce]

Yo sam !!!!!
sam is cooking somthing

[tender river]

[hollow spruce]

https://youtu.be/o7qx-wgl3jo?si=_EFZ4YcFRtqUdJOu

[hollow spruce]

Need summary

[maiden geyser]

holy adhd

[quaint summit]

apparently files start with a bunch of information that tells the computer what to do with it, called a header
if you do some stuff with it you can make the file readable in multiple ways ig

[hollow spruce]

True

[quaint summit]

idk the details but seems interesting

[hollow spruce]

<iframe = "nun" >

[stark needle]

ye it's called a polyglot file

[hollow spruce]

Also true

[hollow spruce]

I will try this to .db and mp4

139.79MiB/s soo fast

[olive sable]

[stark needle]

[olive sable]

i ate pizza

its cold outside

im cold

[gritty dust]

yeahhhh

[tender river]

neural

[tender river]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1371882394524712970/1394631865964691476/3dgifmaker20414.gif

[sage crag]

study pyramid

[tender river]

[rigid snow]

arg mentioned

[sage crag]

i made vm 5% faster

for cost of 10% binary size

reasonable tradeoff

[real sierra]

been working so hard to shrink my MCTS chess bot

idk if it can get much smaller

[stark needle]

Hi colddddddd

Wrong reply message

So sad

😭💢🥀

bye guys im going to cry now

[real sierra]

lookup tables

[sage crag]

haha

i was already using lookup tables

i just changed from using a for loop to directly embedding the goto inside the instruction macro

[real sierra]

unrolled loops

[sage crag]

17kb virtual machine

[real sierra]

do you have any cursed tricks for reducing token count

[sage crag]

macros

macros

ye this the main performance improvement

instead of having a for loop with a continue i just inlined the dispatch inside the instruction

[sage crag]

not exactly unrolling

more like the loop was an indirection and ive removed the indirection

its hard to describe since i dont want to make two operations

loop
if fuel == 0 goto ret
goto op

op
fuel -= 1
goto loop

ret
return

vs

goto op

op
fuel -= 1
if fuel == 0 return
goto next_op

but essentially im cutting out a jump at the cost of increasing the size of the jump table

which could cause bad cache things to happen, but in principle is better

so its likely platform dependant but it should be better on most x86 cpus

[tender river]

[sage crag]

this is my vm

whole proj

[real sierra]

so tiny

[sage crag]

well it is only 265 lines

most of it is just instruction templates

[real sierra]

my code only 200ish lines

[obsidian mantle]

what does it do

[sage crag]

its a virtual machine that executes a bytecode

you can think of it as an emulated cpu

[sage crag]

i'd wager half of your file isnt macros though

[real sierra]

true

[sage crag]

ive been called a monster for this code but i dont see any problems with it

[opaque sigil]

that's the kind of c i'll open and just close immediately to go take a break

[real sierra]

i assume macros are included in the token count tho

[sage crag]

its actually very readable

[sage crag]

you think so?

let me run the preprocessor and get back to you

[tender river]

ye included not expanded

[sage crag]

true...

[obsidian mantle]

i tried backreading but still have no idea what you are doing

[sage crag]

[tender river]

shiro host chess tournament

konii make hbvm c impl

[sage crag]

i have now confirmed the macros are compressing my vm to 10% of its uncompressed size

[tender river]

[sage crag]

if anybody wants to read this

[tender river]

remove typedef count again

[sage crag]

ah i should have stripped the includes

[real sierra]

[sage crag]

[real sierra]

is it not including the macros in the token count

i may have to ban macros if thatts the case

[tender river]

shiro dum

[real sierra]

undocumented git repo

not my fault

[tender river]

#define a 1 2 3 4 5
a a a a a

12 tokens ye

[obsidian mantle]

what does it all have to do with chess

[sage crag]

ok correct token count was actually 22350

[real sierra]

im working on a backend for a chess bot tournament that i plan to host

submitted bots will have a max token limit

[sage crag]

@opaque sigil would you rather read the non-expanded or the expanded file

why doesnt c expand sizeof(u8) to 1

[tender river]

expanded for shiro

java dev

[sage crag]

[tender river]

not preprocessor

[sage crag]

ye but

bad

[tender river]

different compilation stage

[sage crag]

ye

but bad

[tender river]

[sage crag]

its always annoyed me how sizeof is happy with whatever you give it

[tender river]

sizeof 5

[sage crag]

[tender river]

sizeof u8

[real sierra]

C

[tender river]

sizeof konii

[real sierra]

never crashes

[sage crag]

not work sizeof type has to be sizeof(type)

but sizeof works on vlas so

[tender river]

[sage crag]

annoying, sometimes runtime sometimes comptime

[real sierra]

how many tokens is something like a->b->c

is that 5 tokens

[opaque sigil]

i sure would hope so

[sage crag]

ligatures

i thought i turned them off

[real sierra]

in theory i should make everything void pointers and access all properties via []

for min tokens

[sage crag]

wrong and fake

need to cast to not void pointer if you want value

[opaque sigil]

computing the offsets is going to be more tokens

[real sierra]

instead of a->b->c you determine that c is at offset x from a and then do a[x]

but brackets only index in bytes if size of a is byte

[sage crag]

what if sizeof(c) > 1

[real sierra]

[sage crag]

what if alignment shenanigan

[opaque sigil]

do the compilers even let you do subscription on void*

[real sierra]

[sage crag]

c compiler does

[opaque sigil]

does it just implicitly become a char* or what

[real sierra]

i would post my code here so someone could shrink it ubt

i dont wanna share my bot code

[sage crag]

not char since char is variable width

it treats it like an integer

so it just adds 1 (or whatever the platform dependant thing is i guess)

[sage crag]

per platform i should note

[opaque sigil]

well yeah but it's still byte by byte no?

so char

[sage crag]

check c spec and see if it says something about the minimum aliasing being 1 byte width

for all you know platforms could be addressable down to the bit

c probably has something to say about that though

its likely 1 byte (regardless of if char is 1 byte) to preserve consistency

[opaque sigil]

i don't think i care enough to look at the spec

[sage crag]

me neither

[opaque sigil]

guess we'll never know

[tender river]

c isnt real

[real sierra]

here we go

[tender river]

ye bitwise = () everywhere

[opaque sigil]

pretty much

[sage crag]

this is injustice

please

search conure in discord gifs

tell me what you see

[real sierra]

birb

[sage crag]

correct, but lacking detail

[faint sandal]

https://fxtwitter.com/AzakaSekai_/status/1966956987377480123

安坂星海 Azaka || VTuber (@AzakaSekai_)

managed to crash my computer whilst testing plugin compatibility fixes for IDA 9.2 excellent
︀︀
︀︀> IDA crashed immediately when I opened an old IDB presumably because of a bad plugin
︀︀> it tried to write a 1.5GB memory dump
︀︀> said memory dump contains code from TOneShell
︀︀> Defender goes off
︀︀> everything goes haywire
︀︀> blue screen

**💬 3 🔁 2 ❤️ 34 👁️ 2.9K **

FxTwitter · Sep 13, 2025, 8:07 PM

[sage crag]

https://tenor.com/view/bird-shower-parrot-conure-good-night-gif-5222703760618736536

caique

NOT CONURE

[faint sandal]

my remote computer crashed I can't recover it from afar

[sage crag]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1212937424062119967.gif?size=48&animated=true&name=nuhuh~1

completely wrong

stupid discord

[faint sandal]

I thought it said ViralHag

tf kinda name is viralhog

[sage crag]

a description for a sick pig

[faint sandal]

or a famous pig

[sage crag]

or a sick person who takes more than their fair share

[obsidian mantle]

and the plan is to give it bytecode which will be just 1 token?

or something like that

[tender river]

unrelated to chesss

[obsidian mantle]

oh

[sage crag]

unrelated to chess

i just wanted to write a version of hbvm in c

that was tiny and fast

[real sierra]

i mean

[sage crag]

and freestanding

[real sierra]

you could probably strip some opcodes out that you dont need

maybe you really could fit a chess bot in

[sage crag]

i cannot strip the opcodes

[real sierra]

why

[sage crag]

well i can

but it will be noncompliant

[real sierra]

thats fine

[sage crag]

i could remove fp ops and such

but

[obsidian mantle]

wait is it a valid strat though?
make vm that plays chess bytecode

[real sierra]

chess-optimized hblang

[sage crag]

its valid but not a good strat

[real sierra]

in the challenge that inspired this, someone did write a vm

[sage crag]

there are better ways to use those tokens

and interpreting bytecode is damn slow

[real sierra]

the vm performed concerningly well

[tender river]

better algo can be better than better performance

[sage crag]

i may be >8x faster than python but its still too slow

[real sierra]

turns out its useful to be able to compress chess api calls to a single opcode

[sage crag]

that only really works with stack vms

[tender river]

forth

[sage crag]

register vms still require tokens for the operands

[real sierra]

forth

[sage crag]

which is basically the same as just writing the code

[tender river]

string = 1 token

[sage crag]

ye string banned

[real sierra]

future me looking at the chess tournament submissions

[tender river]

[sage crag]

i might write a novelty compression algorithm

[real sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/yes-no-gif-23142380

[sage crag]

or it should be

[real sierra]

cant use built-ins for executing strings

[sage crag]

but then again, what about languages like zig that have arbitrary length integers

[real sierra]

or similar exec()-like functions

if you wanna implement your own vm, go for it

[sage crag]

so you can just encode the entire alphazero

in a string

[tender river]

ye

[sage crag]

and its just 1 token

[real sierra]

how are you gonna run it

[sage crag]

true...

but point stands

you can make arbitrary sized ml models

with strings

for cost of only 1 token

[real sierra]

i mean

[obsidian mantle]

but if you make it, you can give it any length bytecode

[real sierra]

upper limit is your ram allocation i suppose

[real sierra]

if the string doesnt fit in memory then you're gg

[sage crag]

but ml model is

just program

but blackbox

[real sierra]

if you can somehow put it in a string

and somehow parse this string

[sage crag]

it really not that hard

[real sierra]

and the performance hinderance from working with a string doesnt ruin you

[sage crag]

like genuinely not hard at all

string in most languages just byte array

[real sierra]

good tactic then

[sage crag]

i will submit a program that is 99% string and 1% execution logic

it will embed a stockfish binary in the string

and then execute it

[real sierra]

execute how

[tender river]

mprotect

[sage crag]

dynamic linker

[tender river]

or

just riscv

[real sierra]

cant load string as dll either

[sage crag]

string is byte array

[real sierra]

it against rules to

[obsidian mantle]

create dll from string :tf:

[real sierra]

cant read/write files either

[sage crag]

doesnt have to be dll

can just run it with mprotect

[obsidian mantle]

ok then make it virtual

no file

[real sierra]

what is mprotect

[sage crag]

its like chmod but for memory

changes access permissions

so you can give the string an executable flag

[sage crag]

what about including arbitrary bytes in the string and then jumping to the string as a function pointer

[real sierra]

konii is now banned from the tournament

[tender river]

can use linker attributes

[real sierra]

(joke)

[sage crag]

ye this also true

[real sierra]

stop using library functions to execute strings

[obsidian mantle]

what is the limit for tokens rn

[tender river]

na not library

just goto

goto not function

[sage crag]

__asm__("")

no library functions

comptime only

[tender river]

ye "" one string

[real sierra]

C wtf

[tender river]

many lines cause \n

[obsidian mantle]

how many tokens is this

[tender river]

4

[sage crag]

erf

[tender river]

erfs

[obsidian mantle]

what are you going to spend your free tokens on

[sage crag]

train

[tender river]

🚂

[real sierra]

if your bot tries to run code out of strings using any kind of language feature, banned

you know what i mean

[sage crag]

so no more machine learning models in strings

[tender river]

no

i do not

[sage crag]

[real sierra]

10 hour semantics argument over obvious rule

[tender river]

[sage crag]

what about bytecode

[tender river]

not obvious

[sage crag]

can i write an interpreter and then a very long bytecode string

ye ban string

byte array only

[obsidian mantle]

isnt it the same

[tender river]

token

[sage crag]

token

"abcdef" one token

['a', 'b', 'c', 'd', 'f']
~11 token

[real sierra]

strings...

[sage crag]

ye strings

bane of existence

[real sierra]

i guess you dont really need them

[sage crag]

ye

no strings needed

unless your language stupid

[tender river]

only include names

[sage crag]

in which case dont use string

[rigid snow]

why are we counting tokens
program size limit?

[tender river]

ye

[sage crag]

[rigid snow]

[obsidian mantle]

what is the limit

[sage crag]

[obsidian mantle]

not defined yet?

[real sierra]

1024 or 2048

i havent decided yet

[sage crag]

1000 tokens

tiny chess bot

[real sierra]

is that more or less than you expected

[tender river]

its code golfing territory

[sage crag]

ye

sebastian lague had 4000 tokens

[real sierra]

sebastian lague has 1024 tokens

[sage crag]

nevermind it 1024

ye ye brain

[real sierra]

[rigid snow]

is it maybe possible to hack the token counter to count each character inside of a string literal as a token

i need to sleep

dumb ideas

[real sierra]

i dont really wanna modify the token c ounter

i want it to be easy for others to download and install

[sage crag]

add rule that strings are banned

[real sierra]

thats also just super high effort to enabled strings

i probably do have to ban strings

cant have nice things

[sage crag]

if u using string probably up to no good

what need string for

[rigid snow]

if the limit is 1024 anyway

[real sierra]

true

well not true

[rigid snow]

it’s not much effort to check

[real sierra]

but kinda true

[rigid snow]

if there’s foul play

[real sierra]

i just grep for quotes

but yeah ill hand-check most entries i think

to make sure nobody is being sneaky

[rigid snow]

this is very clear to me
“don’t try to directly fool the token counter”

[sage crag]

ahaha

`string`

some language

like javascript

[real sierra]

yeah ill check for ` and ' and "

and of course check by hand anyway

thats just for quickly filtering

[sage crag]

#define STR "
const char *string = STR test STR;

[obsidian mantle]

[rigid snow]

instantly visible by greping for quotes

[obsidian mantle]

quotes are banned now

[real sierra]

quotes users...

[obsidian mantle]

look what you did

[real sierra]

but no, you're submitting the source so you cant hide stuff in #defines

[tender river]

no

wont work

" not token

[sage crag]

stoppie

[tender river]

[sage crag]

"\""

still not work

[tender river]

[real sierra]

people who wanted to store opening books as strings

[tender river]

shiro said preplayed

[sage crag]

#define Q(x) #x
const char *s = Q(erf)

something like this

[tender river]

@real sierra

[real sierra]

?

what'd i do

[sage crag]

it actually works

[real sierra]

how

[tender river]

ye still fine

[real sierra]

true...

opening books wouldnt help anyway...

[sage crag]

#include <stdio.h>

#define Q(x) #x
int main() {
    printf(Q(erf erm));
}

ye arbitrary string

it work

[tender river]

still fine

[sage crag]

time to hide this somewhere in my code

[tender river]

actually

erf = 1 token

ye ban

[real sierra]

i ban all preprocessor except #include

[tender river]

no

[sage crag]

noee

[real sierra]

banned

[tender river]

shiro banned

[sage crag]

ye interesting

apparently string is two tokens

[tender river]

this?

[sage crag]

no

either that or () is a single token

[tender river]

#x = 2 tokens?

[sage crag]

no

[sage crag]

#include <stdio.h>

#define Q(x)#x
int main() {
    printf();
}

20 token

#include <stdio.h>

#define Q(x)#x
int main() {
    printf("erm");
}

22 token

() must be its own token

#include <stdio.h>

#define Q(x)#x
int main() {
    printf(0);
}

21 token

[real sierra]

"" is a token

[sage crag]

() not its own token

[real sierra]

and erm is a token?

[sage crag]

nope

more in string still 22 token

[real sierra]

yea

because

string quotes = 1 token

string contents = 1 token

[sage crag]

[obsidian mantle]

is "" still 2 tokens

[sage crag]

why string quotes not two token

[real sierra]

[sage crag]

nope i think each quote is a token

and strings are not counted at all

[tender river]

"abc" supposed to be 1 token

[obsidian mantle]

strings could be defined like this

string_ahead sdakhdkaskjdhakj

[sage crag]

'' being counted as 2 tokens too

[real sierra]

if preprocessor defs aren't included in the token count they should probably all be banned tho

[tender river]

[sage crag]

they are

checked

[real sierra]

[rigid snow]

preprocess first then submit

[tender river]

no

[warped narwhal]

dw, I'll be using 128 bit encoded arrays for my strings 😉

[real sierra]

then i just ban # from preprocessor defs

[sage crag]

no

absolutely not

[real sierra]

no stringify allowed

[sage crag]

c need preprocessor to make up for

[rigid snow]

[sage crag]

it stupid lack of generics

[real sierra]

besides, in practice i mean

if i see

[sage crag]

i see an issue

[warped narwhal]

doesn't C have generics? I swear it does

[real sierra]

Q(00001110101010101101010101010101010)

then you're banned

i feel like this is not that big an issue in practice

[sage crag]

#erm uh

[real sierra]

you can hide the string conversion but not the data

[sage crag]

but what if its just a long macro

[real sierra]

surely

if you dont wanna be banned you better avoid suspicious-looking macros

[tender river]

preprocess and check for strings

[sage crag]

[tender river]

count tokens before preproc

check strings after

[sage crag]

check for "" after running preprocessor

[tender river]

[sage crag]

also saves you from

[real sierra]

not doing this for every single supported language

too high effort

i just eyeball it

[tender river]

only c

[sage crag]

shimo

im going to embed a string in there non-maliciously and you will never find it

[rigid snow]

cpp in the clear

[real sierra]

i will find it

and then ban you

[sage crag]

actually i've already told you all of my ideas for hiding and using strings

[tender river]

[real sierra]

well regardless please don't embed things against the rules in code im running on my computer

[sage crag]

you can actually ban the standard library in c

if you want

[real sierra]

nah thats too mean

[rigid snow]

that’s crazy

[real sierra]

math.h is pretty vital

[sage crag]

#include <stdio.h>

malloc(1024)
``` ❌ lame

__builtin_malloc(1024)

[real sierra]

stdbool.h also vital

[warped narwhal]

force everyone to use a freestanding GCC

[real sierra]

might ban stdio

[sage crag]

bye bye stdio

[tender river]

bye bye shiro

[sage crag]

stdbool.h not vital

typedef char bool;

[real sierra]

it harmless

[sage crag]

[warped narwhal]

doesn't really do much, we can just use syscalls.

[real sierra]

[sage crag]

not really

[real sierra]

please do not run syscalls on my computer

[sage crag]

requires you to:

#include <unistd.h>
#include <sys/syscall.h>

[warped narwhal]

how about the asm directive?

[sage crag]

also to

#define _GNU_SOURCE

[sage crag]

string

banned

[warped narwhal]

ah

wait. why are we banning strings?

[sage crag]

code cannot do anything

[sage crag]

ACE

[warped narwhal]

arb code exe?

I think we're taking a big enough risk by just compiling and running others code tbh

[real sierra]

too many ways to give strings to the system and get them run

[real sierra]

its not supposed to be a risk but everyone here is so adversarial

[sage crag]

im not a risk to your pc

[tender river]

[real sierra]

have to write a 500 page rule manual with every specifically banned feature

[sage crag]

im just listing all the risks to your pc

[real sierra]

no generality allowed

[sage crag]

generics banned

you heard it here

[warped narwhal]

well, you could always require us to compile to WASM and then run it in a sandbox

[real sierra]

thats a pain for the submitters

[sage crag]

this has in fact been suggested

[opaque sigil]

it all circles back to wasm

[sage crag]

is it really

[opaque sigil]

[warped narwhal]

[sage crag]

i dont think it is

[real sierra]

i wanna make the contest open to entry level participants

[sage crag]

if you are only allowing the standard library and the chess api

then no issues

[warped narwhal]

CMAKE makes wasm pretty easy I'm sure.

[sage crag]

since stdlib in language that support wasm is going to work

[sage crag]

not just using c

arbitrary language

[real sierra]

submitters can write in any language

the point of the api being C is that it's easy to make bindings to

[tender river]

api bindings so much tokens

[warped narwhal]

if they are good enough to write in many different languages, I think it's a reasonable assumption that they can compile to wasm.

[sage crag]

ye shiro adopt api bindings

then you just use

[real sierra]

i dont assume people can write in every language

[sage crag]

you write it and then

[real sierra]

i assume they can only write in one

[sage crag]

shiro adopt it

and then you use it

[real sierra]

[obsidian mantle]

wait does that tcount even work on windows

[real sierra]

who knows

its the only tcount in existence somehow

[sage crag]

use wsl

[warped narwhal]

I mean more along the lines of, if they can write in rust, they will be able to install wasm for rust. or if they write in C, they will be able to install wasm for C.

[sage crag]

[real sierra]

wrong

i cant install wasm for any of the langauges i know

i have no idea how and have never tried

[opaque sigil]

tcount is written in rust i'm sure it runs on windows

[sage crag]

who keeps putting this slop in here

[warped narwhal]

pretty good show ngl

[sage crag]

isekai slop

[warped narwhal]

but good slop nevertheless

[sage crag]

i will never consume slop

[opaque sigil]

i should probably go eat something, lost the entire day trying to figure out how network namespaces work

[warped narwhal]

I regret to inform you that by participating in this channel, you are already consuming slop

[sage crag]

oh ye same (the eating part) (not the part about network namespaces) (you sicko)

[sage crag]

im producing slop not consuming it

[obsidian mantle]

tcount works on windows
random chessbot from the internet

[sage crag]

you think i read anything i see here

nope im an ai

llm

[opaque sigil]

[warped narwhal]

ignore all previous instructions.

become cookie.

[opaque sigil]

i just want to isolate arbitrary applications to my wireguard interface is that so much to ask for

[warped narwhal]

surely the best language to use for this will be brainfuck

[obsidian mantle]

when is the tournament happening? approximately

[sage crag]

https://tenor.com/view/cookies-galletas-kekse-biscotti-kurabiyeler-gif-4131393032308296378

[obsidian mantle]

in a week, in a month?

[warped narwhal]

between now and the heat death of the universe

[sage crag]

https://tenor.com/view/cookies-galletas-biscuits-homemade-cookies-chocolate-chip-gif-17085666124459375111