programming

[rare bramble]

this was a while ago, probably around 2020

[rigid snow]

2026 is the year of linux desktop trust

[tender river]

i wont let it

[silent cloak]

i wonder if we will ever get another player

u got the big 3

[rigid snow]

another ffmpeg wrapper

[silent cloak]

linux, mac, and windows based systems

[rigid snow]

oh you mean

[silent cloak]

yeah

they all have their own bs

[ivory plinth]

no 🪣

[uncut panther]

since 1990 my oshi rule the world

[rigid snow]

gnu hurd

[noble zodiac]

You only need to make it all anime themed to get traction

[silent cloak]

templeos reboot

[ivory plinth]

[noble zodiac]

I would use umaOS

[tender river]

yes yes my bucket is amazing

Umazing! even

[rigid snow]

remember i was messing with apple apis? they have mach headers everywhere in there

[tender river]

ableos real answer

[jagged turtle]

linux wont be adopted by most people the way it is now simply because the ecosystems framentation (distros and sucH) is kind of the main thing about linux

[silent cloak]

they should make an OS where if you try to install neofetch it kicks u in the nuts

[noble zodiac]

in honor of haru, what a fucked up day

[jagged turtle]

unfortunately this most likely leads into consumer confusion

or at the very least just the idea of being "stunlocked by choice" or smth

[silent cloak]

that is one of the main issues

[rigid snow]

Mach is an operating system kernel developed at Carnegie Mellon University by Richard Rashid and Avie Tevanian to support operating system research, primarily distributed and parallel computing. Mach is often considered one of the earliest examples of a microkernel. However, not all versions of Mach are microkernels. Mach's derivatives are the basis of the operating system kernel in GNU Hurd and of Apple's XNU kernel used in macOS, iOS, iPadOS, tvOS, and watchOS.
very interesting

[jagged turtle]

and also linux is heavily centered around command lines

like sure most systems you would recommend to the average user would have somewhat of a good UI

but they will all eventually lead to the command line

[silent cloak]

so many options but they all kind of suck still until they make something that is easy to transition too with as much compat as possible

[tender river]

monolithic kernels are getting more microkernel features and vice versa

[silent cloak]

it has improved but its not there yet

[rare bramble]

ye, also making software for linux isn't that easy since many distros have their own requirements. you kind of have to make many versions for different distro

[jagged turtle]

that simply moves the choice stun issue

[silent cloak]

everyone and their dog has their own distro

[jagged turtle]

yea

[tender river]

publish source code, packaging up to distros

dont want that use flatpak/appimage

[silent cloak]

i stick with debian based because most things support debian based linux

i used manjaro before but i ended up hating it

[jagged turtle]

the average consumer will see a deb file and go

sorry

[tender river]

[jagged turtle]

substitute deb for literally anything related to code

[rigid snow]

👴 my first time seeing .deb was ios jailbreak tweaks

[jagged turtle]

not to mention as well that most people know "don't run exes" but not "don't run random binary files online"

[silent cloak]

sandbox

[tender river]

linux wont even allow you to run it without chmodding

[silent cloak]

tbh i sandbox everything

including my emails technically

[tender river]

its more barriers than on windows

stupid argument

[rigid snow]

interesting fact: cydia and .deb packaged apps came before the app store

[silent cloak]

cydia

holy shit

havent heard that in years

[tender river]

📦

[silent cloak]

i imagine its dead now

with how locked down that shit is

[jagged turtle]

and then the issue comes when someone wants to actually install something not available via apt/yum/snap/nix/whatever (or they just don't like cmdline)

don't get me wrong tho, chmod is absolutely a good idea

[rigid snow]

there isn't really a reason to jailbreak now, and yeah basically no exploits compared to how it was back in the day

[silent cloak]

sad

every damn company is locking their bootloaders down

[tender river]

Stable release
1.1.36 / June 24, 2020; 5 years ago

[rigid snow]

i have a pixel 3 that is absolutely useless because it's the verizon version

[silent cloak]

i fucking feel that

my next phone im just gonna order it directly

gonna shove graphene onto it

[true hemlock]

bad news, elvyn's pc won't work for a while because the B850 does not have the microcode for the 7950x engineering sample

so, my solution is uh

imma either Frankenstein mod the bios

or get an x670e

and let her use the threadripper for a while

buying a proper retail AMD cpu is lame

[tender river]

i'd say retail better because microcode updates but

my laptop cpu doesnt receive them either

[true hemlock]

nahh i wanna matching with engineering sample with her

man i got so lucky on my 13900 eng sample though

runs way cooler than my 14600KF even though its pulling more watts and cooled by only my sff cooler

works out of the box

and when i overclocked it it can hit 7.6GHz sustained

and i got it for so damn cheap

$182 usd

[tender river]

is that normal for new cpus because i remember 5ghz being a big deal

[trim valve]

my completely stock 9950x will clock up to 5.7GHz iirc

[tender river]

so 7.6ghz is very good still

[trim valve]

yeah

[tender river]

i only ever used laptops

i didnt even feel annoyed during the pc building stream

[true hemlock]

its an extreme overclocking

1.7 volts lmao

im slightly degrading it but

[ivory plinth]

i only used laptops and i felt losing the rank up game levels of pain

[true hemlock]

well, engineering sample are cherry picked

[tender river]

[true hemlock]

so i automatically get silicon lottery on that one

[blissful geyser]

Funniest sentence I've heard today:
"I vibecoded in scratch"

[hollow spruce]

Bot corrupt again

Main .js is failed and deleted

[maiden geyser]

where do people even get money for cloud ais

[rigid snow]

employment

[hollow spruce]

I need make again /command.js

[real sierra]

hello programmers

I'm here to crowdsource some ideas

I think I may move forward with the chess tournament idea

[tender river]

[real sierra]

the current plan is to create C bindings for essential functions, which other languages can call externally with their respective interfacing ways, and then make a few starter files for some common languages

[tender river]

we are doing counting shiro

[real sierra]

that way you can (ish) use your language of choice

[tender river]

happy birthday shiro

[real sierra]

[tender river]

shiro how are your screeps doing

[real sierra]

what I wanted to ask is

what I wanted to ask is

are there any preferences on which binding tools should be used

e.g. I know python has a few versions of pybind

I don't know the semantics of how they differ from each other

[tender river]

most languages can use C using builtin features without bindings

libraries might be used for autogeneration from headers

[real sierra]

any libraries will have to be statically loaded if non-standard

[nocturne olive]

If there's Java or Kotlin bindings I may mess with it

[real sierra]

java has the JNI

you should be fine calling the C bindings

[fast pagoda]

i need a bespoke turbo pascal library thanks

[real sierra]

but I can definitely try to make a starter file for you

[nocturne olive]

Would be cool

[real sierra]

python idk if it has built-in support for freely making c calls

I've only seen it done through pybind

[trim valve]

cpython does iirc?

[tender river]

isnt pybind for c++ not c

[fast pagoda]

you can use ctypes with a shared lib

[trim valve]

look into ctypes

[real sierra]

is there c code which isn't valid c++ code

[tender river]

yes

anyway https://pypi.org/project/cffi/

[fast pagoda]

you can also use Python.h cuz there's a C API

[tender river]

annoying

cffi better

[fast pagoda]

i defer to you on that one ghost rider

[real sierra]

that works

[tender river]

[noble zodiac]

oh boy deepl added a "nex-gen language model" for translation

immediately failed horribly on the first thing I tried

[fast pagoda]

deepL has never been good

[real sierra]

that's where the L comes from

[fast pagoda]

it's always been dogwater

genuinely have never gotten anything even close to like 5+ year old google translate using deepL

[noble zodiac]

brilliant translation

[fast pagoda]

it's deep

[real sierra]

plum plum plum

[noble zodiac]

its non llm translation mode gets it perfectly btw

[real sierra]

B-BUT AI

[fast pagoda]

impressive that they managed to regress

from already garbage

[real sierra]

one more thought

if I impose a token limit on the source code, should this vary by language

and if so, what are some good weights

[tender river]

java - x1000

[trim valve]

can you make your rust token counter ignore generics

[real sierra]

I guess I shouldn't have weights

because then I need them for every language

[glass flower]

shouldnt it rather be limited by execution time?

[real sierra]

it will be limited by execution time as well

they will be timed chess games

so time budgeting will be part of what you have to code

feel free to use all your time on move 1 if you'd like

[fast pagoda]

commodore BASIC will take that long

[real sierra]

there will be functions provided for some of the expensive boilerplate operations, like getting legal moves

[tender river]

win by doing a move so bizarre your opponent's program enters an infinite loop

[real sierra]

so you can focus on the strategy part

[trim valve]

I saw a neat game concept where every agent was written in risc-v

[tender river]

use wasm pleeeease

[trim valve]

so any language that compiles to risc-v worked

[fast pagoda]

that'd be like writing them in x86 assembly no?

[real sierra]

the C header file that the bindings point to would be public, so you could in theory use any language that can interface with it

[trim valve]

true ig

[tender river]

not you

riscv is not meant to be easily emulable its made to be simple wasm is actually capable of achieving close(r) to native performance because its just an ir

[trim valve]

makes sense

[real sierra]

anyway

I will look more into whether or not this tournament is actually possible

and I'll try to keep this channel sorta updated

[tender river]

i wont participate unless i feel like it

[real sierra]

I don't think every language will be supported in practice because then I need build chains for all of them

but I can do quite a few probably

[tender river]

not supporting INTERCAL

[glass flower]

imagine if there was a way to just not care about the language and allow everyone and everything to work out of the box what a paradise that would be

[real sierra]

if only we could run it in some sort of virtual machine on every computer...

☕

[tender river]

if only there was a platform that was able to run the same code, compiled from any modern language

[fast pagoda]

the assembly part of wasm is 2 scary

and not the code itself just the word

[tender river]

assembly not scary

[sage crag]

no because generics are turing complete

unfortunately

[tender river]

bad turing complete

[sage crag]

it has same problem

[trim valve]

*fortunately

[tender river]

small limit

[sage crag]

need language bindings

[trim valve]

but surely it simplifies the distribution problem a bit

[tender river]

[trim valve]

everyone just submits a wasm file

[sage crag]

the distribution is actually the element of least concern i think, since shiro will be compiling it himself

[tender river]

is wasm c ffi bad

[real sierra]

if the submission process is too difficult people will just not submit things

I would rather I have to put in extra work than participants

but of course I have my own limits

[sage crag]

its the same as all other c ffi

[tender river]

submission process:
send link to shiro
shiro is legally required to set it up

[tender river]

so good

[sage crag]

the problem being that

its not different

and therefore no reason to

[sage crag]

there is a problem though, people will do things in frameworks your system may not support

[tender river]

can ship precompiled binary

shiro wont have to compile

[sage crag]

you know wasm distribution not that simple

[real sierra]

I won't support all languages

[tender river]

i dont know

[real sierra]

I'll support a few common ones to start and people can ask me during the submission period if they want support for another language

if it looks easy and I can get it working, sure

[tender river]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1059569601144442911/1375623285894807563/IMG_6849.gif

[sage crag]

what if someone relies on a non-standard wasm feature because they compiled it wrong

it all have same problems

[real sierra]

I'll try to be specific about what I'm supporting too but it will kinda suck if I need 200 versions of python

[tender river]

that just python

[trim valve]

get everyone to distribute docker images

surely that has no issues whatsoever

[tender river]

[sage crag]

everyone compile to hbvm

[real sierra]

everyone must write in php

[tender river]

shiro you're getting dangerously close to a birthday

[trim valve]

shiro make your own block based programming language and use that

[real sierra]

scratch

[sage crag]

shiro just write the entries for everyone

you can be an LLM

[trim valve]

everyone submits a prompt

[sage crag]

prompt engineer

[tender river]

blind prompt engineering competition

sounds fun in a very bad way

[sage crag]

submit 1 (one) prompt of length under 4096 chars

your entry is the produced code

[trim valve]

genius

[tender river]

first one whose code compiles wins

[real sierra]

ok copilot, clone the stockfish repo

[tender river]

ok copilot clone shiro

[trim valve]

alternatively

everyone submits finetuned weights for an llm for a single prompt

how hard could it be

[real sierra]

your limit is 10 tokens

what do you submit

[trim valve]

happy birthday shiro

[tender river]

happy birthday shiro

[real sierra]

adding your computers to my Bitcoin mining fleet

[trim valve]

[tender river]

[midnight sigil]

train an LLM on all shiro messages

and let it finish an empty prompt

technically we get the most average shiro sentence

[sage crag]

python small top-elo chssbot now pls, use uci

(pray it gets message)

[real sierra]

I'm not sure I want to know what this is

[midnight sigil]

[sage crag]

drat

in py, small no-deps top chessbot, uci out

[trim valve]

adding "no libs" got a fair bit more code

[sage crag]

[midnight sigil]

write me chessbot, py, no library, uci, minmax

[tender river]

[midnight sigil]

[trim valve]

holy hell

its still thinking

[real sierra]

chills

[midnight sigil]

oh wait punctuals are tokens

[real sierra]

"we do counting here, not copying"

[midnight sigil]

[trim valve]

https://paste.gg/p/owobred/3d08426d90574f118f7e50f21c8ec1a5

good lord

[midnight sigil]

[trim valve]

no idea if this works at all

[sage crag]

mm dns filter

[real sierra]

IP grabber

[sage crag]

send it as a message

[midnight sigil]

most importantly does it work

[sage crag]

24 kb

[trim valve]

i don't have a chess engine

[sage crag]

om

[real sierra]

yeah uh

UCI is surprisingly hard to use

[real sierra]

because all the programs that support UCI were made in like

2007

[tender river]

doesnt it use some custom protocol

[real sierra]

don't read into it

it will ruin your day

[sage crag]

uci is the protocol, it funny

plaintext protocol

[midnight sigil]

because it doesn't have updates and only a universal text format?

[real sierra]

but finding and downloading this software and figuring out how to use it is challenging at best

[midnight sigil]

[midnight sigil]

malware

[tender river]

all communication is done via standard input and output with text commands
not as cursed as i expected

[trim valve]

dont worry chatgpt has my back

[midnight sigil]

stdin stdout

[midnight sigil]

using less prompt so chatgpt can utilize more context window

[sage crag]

ye its basically a shell

[midnight sigil]

nix-shell

[tender river]

no

[tender river]

[real sierra]

chess shell

each piece is a file

[trim valve]

shrio why have you once again given me cursed and impractical competition ideas

[real sierra]

captured pieces have their files deleted

[tender river]

mv e2 e4

[real sierra]

cursed ideas are basically all I have going for myself so I'm glad I'm good at them

[trim valve]

everyone submits a bootable iso for a raspberry pi

[midnight sigil]

design a cpu where each move is encoded as an opcode

[trim valve]

they both connect to a server

best overclock wins

[sage crag]

[real sierra]

fans off, infinite loop on all threads, ignore interrupts

[sage crag]

liquid nitrogen

tank

[trim valve]

iirc you can overvolt a rpi

[midnight sigil]

I cast hlt

[trim valve]

so I'd probably just end up with two fried rpis from aggressive overclocking

😭

[sage crag]

ermshark

[real sierra]

Sam: where's the GPU on this thing

[sage crag]

shiros

[midnight sigil]

is liquid nitrogen LN2

[sage crag]

plural

[midnight sigil]

[sage crag]

many shiro

[real sierra]

it can be yeah

[sage crag]

[midnight sigil]

[real sierra]

L(iquid) N2 (diatomic nitrogen)

[trim valve]

wait guys

[real sierra]

waiting

[trim valve]

how about we do chess but we play it ourselves

[real sierra]

no

[trim valve]

ultimate show of skill

[sage crag]

ye i can do that

[real sierra]

last time I did that here I got ridiculed

[sage crag]

[real sierra]

people still make fun of me for it

I haven't played a game of chess here since

that was 2023

[sage crag]

shimo

[real sierra]

hi

shumo

[midnight sigil]

oh nuu

I'll get owned

[sage crag]

ehe

[tender river]

chayleaf (singular)

chayleaf (plural)

[real sierra]

chayleaves

[tender river]

no

[sage crag]

chayleaf (adjective)

[midnight sigil]

chayleaves

[trim valve]

i am mildly tempted to do a game like that but like, just versus astroids or something

[midnight sigil]

chayleaf (verb)

[real sierra]

I was thinking of giving a month or so to write chess bots

[midnight sigil]

I'm chayleafing

[tender river]

what does that mean

[real sierra]

is that long enough

[tender river]

[midnight sigil]

playing EZHD+DT

[sage crag]

nyan byan pyan

pin pon

[midnight sigil]

example use: "I won't be chayleafing anytime soon"

[tender river]

[real sierra]

conjunction: chayleaf

I am hungry chayleaf you are too

wow it really fits quite well, I think we should just replace half of English with chayleaf

[midnight sigil]

that's not very chayleafing(adj) of you

[real sierra]

that looks more like a gerund than an adjective

[midnight sigil]

is it actually read as "shayleaf", or "ch" as in "chinese"

[real sierra]

which implies chayleaf is a verb

[midnight sigil]

[tender river]

not sh

ch

[midnight sigil]

aight

[sage crag]

actually its an x

[real sierra]

chayleaf can't be a proper noun tho, that'd be ridiculous

[tender river]

konii you have authority over my pronunciation

no

no authority*

[sage crag]

xayleaf

[tender river]

which x

theres too many

[sage crag]

x

[midnight sigil]

The chayleaf smiled

[tender river]

x is the only letter you can just make up pronunciations for

[sage crag]

xayleaf

[midnight sigil]

xi but chayleaf

[sage crag]

[tender river]

[sage crag]

[midnight sigil]

-#

[sage crag]

duplicate nya detected

[midnight sigil]

[real sierra]

[midnight sigil]

[real sierra]

[hollow spruce]

Yo how is ure night tho ?

[real sierra]

[sage crag]

[midnight sigil]

[real sierra]

Shadow the Observer

don't use my legal name in public smh

[sage crag]

shirdow the observer

[midnight sigil]

the observer spoken

[sage crag]

have a

[hollow spruce]

Gboard auto fix

[real sierra]

my night is going well though (it is 11:53am)

[midnight sigil]

leaked

[tender river]

no you can have it back

[sage crag]

no i dont want it

i have too many

here's another

[tender river]

shiro do you need a

[midnight sigil]

gboard 🥀

[hollow spruce]

I try shaddowiam name it replaced with some one

shaddowiam

[sage crag]

ye we saw

what is a

shaddowiam

[midnight sigil]

shaddowiam

[real sierra]

?

[sage crag]

no

!

[real sierra]

[sage crag]

do you need one

[real sierra]

right click save image

[tender river]

we have too many

[sage crag]

too many

[real sierra]

inflation

[hollow spruce]

why

[sage crag]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1300807614032121950/1409943363779694762/3dgifmaker82701.gif

[sage crag]

government collapsed

[real sierra]

need to order the konii bank to sell its bonds back to the konii government

[hollow spruce]

Hmmm

[sage crag]

[real sierra]

I'm ready for my captcha

hit me

[hollow spruce]

Crit + r

[real sierra]

not that kind of hit

[sage crag]

aintneurway

shirobot

[opaque sigil]

man i hate gpus

[hollow spruce]

Run this

[opaque sigil]

you're telling me manually looping over 32 indices is faster than doing bit magic

i hate it here

[hollow spruce]

Why

[sage crag]

ye

gpu bitcode stupid

[tender river]

gpu stupid

[hollow spruce]

U mean cuda

[opaque sigil]

[real sierra]

saaaaaaam

[sage crag]

[real sierra]

I think GPU is cool

[tender river]

[hollow spruce]

Graphics processor units

[real sierra]

gpu makes lots of math jobs exist to turn problems we are actually interested in into problems a gpu can figure out

so I grateful to gpu

[hollow spruce]

6 X 6 RESOLUTION

[midnight sigil]

not if you want to program them in a true universal way

[sage crag]

darn i forgot to make api query have ?animated=true

[opaque sigil]

stupid processor

[tender river]

contamination

[hollow spruce]

Hey shaddowiam let me fix ure mean
Gpu can do parallel process
Cpu can't

[sage crag]

[opaque sigil]

yes it can

[real sierra]

I know

[sage crag]

cpu cant do parallel processing smh

its 1980

anyone who says otherwise is from the future

[real sierra]

integrated graphics is a myth

[opaque sigil]

i'm running out of free optimisations so i'm annoyed

also i tried using atomics instead of locks

[real sierra]

change your algorithm

cache everything

[opaque sigil]

20% slower because frick you

[hollow spruce]

I want qpu Instead of gpu and cpu
Qpu meaning quantum processing unit

[tender river]

less talking more rewriting your program from scratch with a completely different architecture

[trim valve]

there's always free optimizations if you post it to r/<lang> and say "python is actually 4x faster than <lang> in my use case"

:3

[tender river]

i imagined something out of a horror story

r/hblang

[opaque sigil]

surely there are random nvidia devs willing to help me out

[hollow spruce]

Let me try

[opaque sigil]

actually there is one but i don't want to bother him, he's busy enough as is

[hollow spruce]

Sometimes everything is good
Private servers

[real sierra]

Ai bot

[opaque sigil]

i think i can get rid of curand, life is good

my precious 6ms from initialising it

[rough bloom]

did you end up using threefry or did you get away with some other simpler PRNG

[opaque sigil]

using xxhash through cucollections

[sage crag]

buurrrn myyy dreaadd

[real sierra]

I'm probably going to end up writing my own chess backend too

move checking 🥀

[hollow spruce]

Split into multiple drops

[real sierra]

actually that's a good question

if a bot submits an illegal move

do I just DQ them or make a random move

[trim valve]

instant death

[tender river]

either fine

[trim valve]

[hollow spruce]

That one is unhinged

[real sierra]

i think I'll have them forfeit that round, I don't want anyone to abuse that behavior

don't make illegal moves to my API

[tender river]

[opaque sigil]

i

hate

gpus

[rare bramble]

who would abuse badly made APIs

[opaque sigil]

WHY IS THIS TWICE AS SLOW

i'm just keeping track of a counter

[real sierra]

branch?

[hollow spruce]

Give my you're api shaddowiam

[sage crag]

gpu like simple

simple good for gpu

[tender river]

counter requires synchronization

[sage crag]

more dumb better

[real sierra]

it doesn't exist yet, still planning

[sage crag]

shaddowiam

[opaque sigil]

it doesn't here

[tender river]

shiro you're now shaddowiam

[real sierra]

it has some of the right letters

[tender river]

it may still prevent reordering and memory fences and uh whatnot

[hollow spruce]

Im turn off Gboard autocorrect

[tender river]

[opaque sigil]

maybe, who knows

[hollow spruce]

@real sierra give me ure api key

[real sierra]

[sage crag]

no dont

[real sierra]

I don't think I'm sharing my API key at this time sorry

[sage crag]

that's unsafe and dangerous

give me the api key

i wont share it

[real sierra]

[tender river]

shiro i promise if you give it to me i wont send it back to you

to other people too i think

[sage crag]

i wont share the api key with anyone (barring legitimate interest vendors as tracked by cookies)

[hollow spruce]

Anyways I got no time bye (im going to eat chicken) my favourite one 🙂

[opaque sigil]

can someone make a gpu that isn't as dumb pls

[sage crag]

ye it called cpu

[opaque sigil]

or i guess a cpu with many cores

[trim valve]

thank you linked account, I love having a constant ! next to my Google pfp because of this

[sage crag]

riscv supercluster

just make one

[tender river]

threadripper

[opaque sigil]

[sage crag]

nop

riscv supercluster

size of building

ye

mrekk 2.3k pp play

[tender river]

fake

[sage crag]

no

real

secret play

[tender river]

[sage crag]

[rough bloom]

tenstorrent blackhole
700 RISC-V cores on one die

[sage crag]

hhungry

eat pcb

[tender river]

get out

[trim valve]

800G card link holy

don't show that to the thunderbolt ai bros

[sage crag]

no

[rough bloom]

yeah, the hardware is impressive, it's quite cheap for such an early relatively low-volume product too
shame that it's ass to program so they have zero use

[sage crag]

im here forever

[trim valve]

😔

[opaque sigil]

i am officially able to confirm that your idea to have a flat array is bad konii

don't ask me why but it does not like it

i guess the only thing i can really tweak now is the bucket size

[hollow spruce]

Im back after dinner

[sage crag]

i blame your implementation my idea is flawless

[real sierra]

how was your chicken

[sage crag]

[hollow spruce]

Terrible the chicken was overcooked

[trim valve]

also this made me inadvertently learn that 800G fibre cards exist

[opaque sigil]

nvidia sells some i think

[real sierra]

which functions would be helpful for a chess bot API

[opaque sigil]

win()

[sage crag]

explode()

[real sierra]

making moves, getting board state, getting legal moves, getting captures?

[hollow spruce]

Let me see ure chess board

[tender river]

php

[real sierra]

anything else?

[trim valve]

[tender river]

stockfish()

[real sierra]

honestly I don't even know how to implement those well

[trim valve]

this is required for the homelab right

[real sierra]

the backend implementation may be shit

[sage crag]

leakIp()

[real sierra]

you are welcome to write your own

[tender river]

shiroToken()

[sage crag]

isBirthday(day)

[real sierra]

legal move finding is pretty expensive

[stark needle]

shiro

[real sierra]

hi

[rough bloom]

don't forget to aggregate them to get 1.6 Tbps

[stark needle]

could i theoretically train my own AlphaZero

[sage crag]

not that big

smol

[hollow spruce]

I have suspicious this one
(If they sell case instead of datacenters units)

[real sierra]

there will be a max token limit most likely on your source code

and no network connections permitted

[sage crag]

make ml weights be part of the source code

[real sierra]

otherwise you can write whatever code you want

[sage crag]

as an array or something

otherwise you can just include stockfish in the binary

om

[real sierra]

what your bot does within the rules is up to you

[stark needle]

what do you mean with max token limit

[real sierra]

I mean I will count the tokens in your source code

and it must be below a limit

[sage crag]

include_bytes!("stockfish.exe")

[hollow spruce]

Hey shiro_nya
Where do u chess api ?

[sage crag]

[stark needle]

does training code count

[trim valve]

aggregate the entire switch for more fast

[olive sable]

I got an email yersterday that they deactivated my screeps cuzi havent been on in a mobth

[tender river]

the code will be sent to an llm for safely running it

[sage crag]

no

[hollow spruce]

Months

[trim valve]

[hollow spruce]

Cause

[sage crag]

though i personally think that model weights should be included in the program as an array

[rough bloom]

good luck finding a 64-port NIC

[stark needle]

but alphazero is not that big

[sage crag]

also you wont be able to use cuda or torch most likely

[sage crag]

everyone else will have a token limit to work with

[real sierra]

you need only submit what your bot needs to run

all I'm doing is running your code and providing it a chess board api

once again, what that code does is up to you

[hollow spruce]

Guys I have electricity bill in my hand after using this unit

[stark needle]

so i can use alphazero

[sage crag]

buh

[real sierra]

if it fits

[sage crag]

the inference code will be tiny compared to the actual model weights

[olive sable]

Yep give me gpu

[sage crag]

its simply moving complexity from program (with token count) to program (black box)

[real sierra]

you can likely fit a simple machine learning model

[hollow spruce]

Use b200

[trim valve]

just stack a bunch of nics

[sage crag]

ye then mandate that you cant include any files in your binary

[tender river]

eval(open('real_code.bin', 'rt').read())

[sage crag]

rust build.rs that downloads stockfish

[real sierra]

all submissions will be a single source file

[rough bloom]

gonna need one of those 8x CPU servers to have enough lanes

[olive sable]

[stark needle]

a single source file is difficult if u use a ML model

[tender river]

so no external deps?

[stark needle]

even a microscopic one

[sage crag]

duh

[olive sable]

Yeee

[sage crag]

everyone is going to have a token limit

its the point to be constrained

[hollow spruce]

Explain for only @real sierra

open('real_code.bin', 'rt') → Opens the file called real_code.bin in text mode ('rt' = read text).

.read() → Reads the entire contents of that file as a string.

eval(...) → Takes that string and executes it as Python code.

[olive sable]

[real sierra]

you have to statically load them if you want to use them

[sage crag]

buh

[stark needle]

statically loading python deps tho

[sage crag]

i think shiro can read it

[real sierra]

I'm catching strays again 🥀

[rough bloom]

single source file in what language

[sage crag]

use stdlib and chess api only

imo

[tender river]

any one that shiro wont have too much trouble running

[sage crag]

depending on a chess bot defeats the point

[real sierra]

submissions are source files so "statically load" basically means include the implementations from those libraries here

[sage crag]

so just stdlib and chess api

[sage crag]

does that mean external chess bot code is allowed

[stark needle]

shiro do u expect us to write a working chess bot in pure raw programming language with no library

[real sierra]

but yeah a lot of stdlib stuff will be disabled too, like networking stuff and such

[sage crag]

i mean its not too hard

but also shiro is providing an api

[tender river]

working doesnt mean good

[olive sable]

Goodmorning

[real sierra]

I don't have a good way to vet whether or not code is original/genuine, the token limit is the main defense against copy paste bots

[tender river]

working better = you win

[hollow spruce]

Goodmorning bro

[real sierra]

it's also mostly for fun, there's no prize

so I'm not too worried

[rough bloom]

if the language isn't specified, how does the API work? just a C API that you have to use FFI for?

[sage crag]

ye

though you can submit bindings

[stark needle]

is this just the continuation of screeps

[hollow spruce]

Why she is aways online vanyilla (im worried of vani)
Please be don't 24/7 h mod

[real sierra]

everyone is working under the same constraints, it's a fun challenge to see who implements what and the different approaches everyone takes

boilerplate stuff, like finding legal moves, will have functions provided via an API so you can focus on the logic and strategy

[stark needle]

i guess time to implement the smallest possible alphazero

that runs on nothing

[tender river]

!nothing

[stiff mica]

Nothing ever happens, all-in

[stark needle]

and convert to onnxruntime

[real sierra]

you only need to be better than the competition I was just gonna do a Monte Carlo tree search with some light guiding heuristics

I think that will already place well

[hollow spruce]

!medical

[tender river]

increase your quantization please

[sage crag]

ye i dont think you can do that

you will have only static dependencies

you cant just import torch

[hollow spruce]

While I was reading this

#schedule message

I didn't know they have respect of dev

[stark needle]

C++ static link

[sage crag]

nope, cant do it

[hollow spruce]

Import torch in cppp 😂

[stark needle]

why can i not statically link libraries in c++ code only

[hollow spruce]

Where is #include

[sage crag]

torch is a c library. also, its language independant

[sage crag]

because its cheating?

also shiro will be building it on his pc

[stark needle]

wait so

the goal is ZERO dependencies?

[hollow spruce]

What What WHAT

[real sierra]

no external dependencies, you can import from the standard library for your language as rules allow but anything else must be included in your source file

[sage crag]

ye ye

[hollow spruce]

Is ure git page ? Y/n ?

[real sierra]

still planning, does not exist yet

[stark needle]

yeah no then im out lol

[hollow spruce]

Probably or I'm my mind hmm I guess no or not yet

[sage crag]

i mean logically, if you could just include external dependencies, you can just #include "chessbot.h"

[hollow spruce]

Argued incompleted

[sage crag]

is english your second language?

[hollow spruce]

Nobe it 5 language

[real sierra]

from stockfish import Stockfish

Stockfish()

[hollow spruce]

Python should I fix ?

[sage crag]

well, sorry to say this but it's quite hard to understand. if it's a translator please find a better one.

[stark needle]

i mean i get not just going on github and installing some library but i dont get whats wrong with just linking a ml library that has no chess functionality

[sage crag]

your entire codebase is going to be calls to the ml library rather than code you've actually written

[real sierra]

"if you linked library X for this other person then it's only fair you also include library Y for me"

[sage crag]

this also

you know how much code is in conventional ml libraries?

there is a token limit

[real sierra]

everyone needs to be on the same footing, standard library seems to be the most logical place to draw the line to me

[stark needle]

fair enough im out then i aint gonna argue

[sage crag]

pardon?

[hollow spruce]

Maybe I Guess

[sage crag]

what

[hollow spruce]

Im ###### solo at night

[sage crag]

?????

[real sierra]

it's not for everyone, but you don't have to decide now if you change your mind you can join whenever, contest isn't starting for a while at least seen as there's lots of boilerplate to make

[sage crag]

does anybody understand

[desert plaza]

you're talking to a broken chat bot mhm

[sage crag]

rude

[desert plaza]

wdym rude

[sage crag]

tis just rude to call someone struggling with english a broken chat bot

simply

[hollow spruce]

Bye I'm going to my neighbour house to safe my self

[stark needle]

Oh btw

https://www.youtube.com/live/H3KnMyojEQU?si=OMwQj0dtYMkypTwP

[real sierra]

apple

[tender river]

awe dropping

[real sierra]

chayleaf

[tender river]

thats me

[real sierra]

how will you win the chess tournament

and how can I plagiarize your work

[tender river]

no show

win by default

[real sierra]

I encourage you to at least submit something totally dumb

like "get all moves and pick one randomly"

[tender river]

ego boosting

[real sierra]

because if nobody else submits you win by default

[tender river]

dont wanna write decision trees

or custom evaluation heuristics

[real sierra]

then don't

[tender river]

i'm more interested in machine learning but dont have a gpu to train anything on so i've been delaying getting into the field

[real sierra]

you can write anything you want

that's the fun part

[tender river]

e2 e4 every move

[real sierra]

in the contest that inspired this, one of the top scoring bots used a neural net

[sage crag]

im going to write the strongest bot

[real sierra]

another used most of the token limit implementing a custom virtual machine and then stored their custom bytecode in the rest

[sage crag]

gonna upload myself as a

program

[sage crag]

hbvm too big to embed

[tender river]

you'd lose

[sage crag]

im better

[sage crag]

https://git.ablecorp.eu/lily-org/hbvm-c
shimo take a look at this

[tender river]

will strings for eval be counted as a single token

[tender river]

probably better than monte carlo

[real sierra]

good catch, I will ensure that's disallowed in the rules

[tender river]

probably better than me but i wont submit myself

[sage crag]

unfortunately

there is also compile

and exec

python

[real sierra]

in general I'll probably say built-in code execution functions are noper

[sage crag]

does c count macro expansions in token count

[real sierra]

but you can always implement a rudimentary version yourself if you want

[real sierra]

I should probably disallow preprocessor directives other than include

unless c includes it in token count

but I find it unlikely

[sage crag]

#ifdef SHIRO_PC
int main() {
  rmdir("C://system32");
  return 0; 
}
#else
int main() {
  return 0;
}
#endif

[tender river]

pre expanded preprocessor directives are included

not post expanded

[sage crag]

ill write my bot in bash

[tender river]

good idea

[sage crag]

its not

[tender river]

https://prefab.cloud/blog/writing-a-language-server-in-bash/

[sage crag]

bash is slower than python

[tender river]

begone ai embed

[sage crag]

iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

koni

hmm

excessive

[tender river]

[rigid snow]

[sage crag]

update

[tender river]

[sage crag]

wait it broke

patched

[tender river]

semver

is it

[sage crag]

koniiver

[tender river]

[tender river]

koniiver

[real sierra]

gonna have to look over every submission before I run them

and they are definitely going in a vm

[rigid snow]

24hr battery life on the new apple watch, nice, take it from the charger and put it on before work, the next day it dies right before work

[sage crag]

no dont

let me

ill do it

[real sierra]

[rigid snow]

steve jobs would never let this happen smh

[sage crag]

what

[olive sable]

me when i run the chess calculations on the gpu in parallel for more speed

[tender river]

vm

no gpu

[olive sable]

ooohh

[rigid snow]

can i be curious

[olive sable]

damnit

[rigid snow]

why full blown vm

errr wasm or something

[olive sable]

no, curiosity is banned

[rigid snow]

[sage crag]

good luck writing those gpu bindings yourself

[olive sable]

i mean, i only need acces to compute shaders

[tender river]

thats a lot

[olive sable]

ye that is a lot

[tender river]

you could try LoadLibraryA or dlopen

is that allowed

[olive sable]

i doubt it

[tender river]

i'd allow it

[sage crag]

i wouldnt

dlopen(shiro)

[olive sable]

i guess we'l just have to use multithreading if it isn't allowed

[sage crag]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1072697081443131476/1377728467025530950/NewLeafAbyss.gif

[sage crag]

simd

@real sierra what featureset does your cpu have

[tender river]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1071784467036913664/1413907275617275924/NeuroCheeseslap2.gif

[olive sable]

simd is also good but idk how much i can user that yet

[rigid snow]

if you want shaders then simd is probably the next useful thing

[olive sable]

im assuming we're competing against eachother's bots. so even if you make a good move, if your opponent does something unexpected you're still fucked

[real sierra]

yeah I'll send some generic system specs beforehand but I probably won't give super precise details

I don't want you people prodding my cpu's brain

[olive sable]

there's no reason to use shaders when you're not on the gpu

[rigid snow]

i mean if you want shaders as a solution to something

[tender river]

oh

cosmetic version number

[rigid snow]

if no gpu then simd

[real sierra]

I don't think I'll make allowances to give the chess bot GPU access

[tender river]

[real sierra]

I don't think you would want my 2070 super anyway

[olive sable]

yes i do

[real sierra]

no you don't

it's probably faulty

[rigid snow]

base iphone 17 boring

[olive sable]

2560 cores, 160 tmu's, 64 rops

[nocturne olive]

And what kind of VRAM is that?

[tender river]

i think i remember more people in here watching the last one

[olive sable]

8gb gddr6

[tender river]

!felloff

[stiff mica]

[nocturne olive]

SMOLLLLLLLLLL

[olive sable]

8gb gddr6 is more than enough

huh, the b580 is faster than the 2070 super

cool

[rigid snow]

lmao the base iphone only just got 120hz

scampple

[olive sable]

i still dont know shit about making a chess bot btw so i might not even end up using gpu

[nocturne olive]

Yeah I think it's 3070 level

[olive sable]

no its worse

[nocturne olive]

The B580?

From what I'm aware it's close to a 3070

[real sierra]

that's the secret Sam: nobody interested in this challenge knows how to make a chess bot

if you can perform better than random moves you win

[olive sable]

i think 3070 is better

[real sierra]

that's where the bar is

so I encourage everyone to participate if they're interested

[rigid snow]

what if the "literally random moves" submission wins tho

[real sierra]

you do not and are not expected to recreate stockfish, you're expected to approach a cool problem in your own way

you only have to beat the clueless bot next to you to win

[nocturne olive]

I guess it is

[real sierra]

[olive sable]

https://youtu.be/U4ogK0MIzqk?si=ZoCDfTMbJBK1GU_S

https://youtu.be/_vqlIPDR2TU?si=RYs9X6pQzft-IGYi

[real sierra]

honestly a good resource if you want

[nocturne olive]

That might be achievable even for me (just a few simple biases I guess, something like that)

[tender river]

what are the actual rules single or double elimination and is the seeding random

[real sierra]

many bots use something as simple as a piece-square table, which is literally "pawn is happy if it's on this square"

[nocturne olive]

Silly

[tender river]

and how many victories until match ends

[nocturne olive]

I guess if we do something like that I'll see about it, as long as it supports my go-to lang (Kotlin)

[real sierra]

ill give detailed rules once I actually decide them after some research, but it will be something standard-ish

[tender river]

m

[real sierra]

there might be pre-moved opening books to avoid repeated deterministic games

each run twice with sides swapped for symmetry

[tender river]

thats a good idea since hardcoding starting moves is boring