programming

[pliant palm]

sounds cool as heck

[olive sable]

i am 100% sure they would gladly stop supporting java if pc gamers wouldn't start rioting on the streets infront of the mojang office, but we all know they will.

[nocturne olive]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1HNHqSdGW4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49CrynNZAR0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvIr30bUEbw
It is

[silent cloak]

https://www.reddit.com/r/BugrockMoment

whole subreddit for bedrock being ass water and updated

[fast pagoda]

they wouldn't if they actually gave it any sort of feature compatibility with java but they intentionally dont so they can't use that as a reason

[rigid snow]

tehy haven't for 7 years now, what makes you think they ever will when it still sells like hot cakes

[uneven pulsar]

Mojang still makes java updates, wdym?

[fast pagoda]

i think they were saying they wouldnt stop supporting java

[uneven pulsar]

Ooh

[rigid snow]

they haven't [stopped supporting java edition] for 7 years

[fast pagoda]

and havent for years despite bedrock being out

[silent cloak]

because its simply better

[olive sable]

they want to stop supporting it, but the backlash woudl be insane so they cant

[uneven pulsar]

I feel like to some extent, bedrock runs better but java will always be more stable

There's a reason bedrock has no hardcore

[tender river]

is it not clear that any UGC for java edition wouldnt be available on consoles

[rigid snow]

and also as i said java is the only way to play minecraft on macos which i don't believe is a small market for them

[olive sable]

fair

[uneven pulsar]

I don't think they want to, money talks too y'know

[fast pagoda]

that's what i mean by "accept it" they have no alternative otherwise so of course they're going to bedrock all the console ports as there's no pushback

[silent cloak]

the only part of bugrock that wont ever break is the market page

[uneven pulsar]

Actually not true

I'm pretty sure there's been cases

[tender river]

so if theres no alternative why even discuss this

[silent cloak]

i think they should just bring back the OG pocket edition

[olive sable]

its their goal to make the java edition purchases into bedrock edition purchases

[silent cloak]

sure there is no nether

but they had a nether reactor

[uneven pulsar]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1071784467036913664/1412370548188512440/awa.gif

[pliant palm]

awa

[uneven pulsar]

awa

[pliant palm]

germans when they get hurt

[uneven pulsar]

[fast pagoda]

it was in response to people saying that "the point of bedrock isn't to be at parity with java it's to unify the console versions"

i'm saying that's their given reason and they almost certainly hoped it would get the foot in the door for bedrock to be the only version but there was too much outrage - but there isn't any from the console side because they're not losing anything by being forced onto bedrock instead of their original version

because again the only benefit to bedrock is that it allows them to totally control mtx and mods in store etc

[rigid snow]

tbh i actually don't fucking understand this debate at all
java is a first-class citizen edition, it gets new content and features first (the only example i can think of where this isn't the case is vibrant visuals), it gets fixes first, it's overall in a much better state and gets more dev attention because it's nicer to develop for, etc.

[silent cloak]

java edition is the cool people version

[uneven pulsar]

I honestly have no idea what this debate is about, I just want to feel involved

[fast pagoda]

all reasons bedrock should be at least kept compatible and in the same state gameplay wise

[pliant palm]

i think the only reason i preferred bedrock/pe when i was a little tablet kid was bc it was cheaper than java

[uneven pulsar]

Shit, I'm having a nose bleed

[olive sable]

in my honest opinion, bedrock isnt bug free, and they do need to fix those. but all in all i think bedrock should become the version that every platform uses

[uneven pulsar]

You can buy a bundle with both now

[rigid snow]

but java is free

[olive sable]

no its not

it was free

[uneven pulsar]

You could say the game itself is, just not the accounts

[silent cloak]

charge extra for java to gate keep

[pliant palm]

yeah ik times have changed 🥀

[silent cloak]

have minecon ONLY for java edition players

[rigid snow]

yeah oracle amirite?

[olive sable]

[silent cloak]

the bedrock players will have access to the minecraft themed daycare

[olive sable]

fuck you i will enjoy my time in the daycare

i will eat all them cookies

[fast pagoda]

again, nobody would care if java went away IF they actually put in the effort and resources to have bedrock be at parity with java, which IS possible and y'all keep saying "that's not the point" but why shouldn't it be?

problem: you have an existing, successful product with a bunch of random incompatible versions (the console ports).

solution here at microsoft mid 2010s with my infinite money and resources, what am i going to do?
I know, i'll make a whole different version that's totally incompatible with the main version (java), and then spend nearly 10 years saying it's totally gonna be the version guys only to still have it be a mess in in 2025, also gonna keep separately adding new stuff at different times to both versions

inexcusable

[astral trellis]

http://youtube.com/post/UgkxrmcRFwT091dcpK4HxW7oMNB0yOj1DbAZ?si=_sodTfJLf3nMQMYN

[tender river]

disagree

[olive sable]

ye i also disagree

[silent cloak]

everyone here is wrong except for me

now, i know that might be a hard truth to swallow

[olive sable]

even if bedrock edition became better than java, people still hate bedrock out pof principle and because the mods dont work

[tender river]

[fast pagoda]

it wouldnt be better than java then

so that point is moot

[uneven pulsar]

next you're gonna run out of mana

[olive sable]

the thing is, did you know bedrock also supports mods? and actually the modding tools are better

[silent cloak]

shit i cant send images

[fast pagoda]

yes it does, but not the existing ones, and also through mtx

[rigid snow]

java is good because it’s moddable which is the jvms doing. you can’t really achieve the same thing with anything else, for that they’d have to make a public modding api which is always going to be less powerful than just having jvm bytecode in the first place

[fast pagoda]

which is the true point of bedrock

[pliant palm]

this discussion could be an allegory of something smart in some twisted aspect if you look at it from the right angle

[fast pagoda]

they’d have to make a public modding api
not a bad thing

[olive sable]

the point of bedrock is cross platofrma nd stuff, its not their fault the java mods dont work on bedrock

[fast pagoda]

yes it is lmao

[olive sable]

no its not

[rigid snow]

???

[uneven pulsar]

I feel like the only true issue in this whole conversation is that bedrock is being displayed as the main version of minecraft now, despite it still being very unstable

[fast pagoda]

it's literally their fault through refusal

[rigid snow]

bro what the fuck are you talking about

[olive sable]

the bedrock engine is quite literaly incompatible with the java mods

[fast pagoda]

no shit

[fast pagoda]

that doesn't mean ms doesnt have the resources to facilitate a transition

they just dont wanna

[rigid snow]

you know they do have a modding api kind of

[uneven pulsar]

I don't think that's how running a business works, especially if you have players actively waiting for you

You can't just rebuild an entire game

[rigid snow]

is it nearly as good as having no modding api but the game being jvm bytecode?

[olive sable]

"facilitating the trasnition" would mean makign a translation layer, or making the mods compatiple on the bedrock engine. they cant jsut change the engine for java mod support

[silent cloak]

https://tenor.com/view/mojang-mojang-employees-minecraft-minecraft-employees-mojang-employees-after-2-hours-of-labor-gif-8804301810134433330

[olive sable]

true

[fast pagoda]

yes you can if you have functionally infinite resources and 10+ years of goodwill of people willing to wait

[fast pagoda]

all they would need to do is provide an api that allows for the current mods to be brought over

[silent cloak]

i think there is something we can all agree on though

most recent updates have sucked

especially with mobs

which almost add NOTHING

[fast pagoda]

it wouldnt be 100% Of them obviously

[olive sable]

so a translation layer?

[uneven pulsar]

But the whole point of a corporation is money, why would they spend money just to make the game better when people have gotten used to bugrock

[rigid snow]

that’s valid but saying it will ever be as good as java ever was is just wrong

[rigid snow]

and this is nonsense

[fast pagoda]

yes? are we at the point where we consider it unreasonable for microsoft who have made billions and billions of actual profit from owning minecraft, to expect that they could do that?

[silent cloak]

https://tenor.com/view/ironman-minecraft-new-mob-gif-23452808

[uneven pulsar]

Yeah, it's microsoft

[olive sable]

yes you can, i do it all the time
they have a diffrent engine to make it run better

[fast pagoda]

i refute that

[uneven pulsar]

I was more referring to the time it would take

Specifically in the case of minecraft

[pliant palm]

jarvis clip that

[fast pagoda]

theyve had 7 years

how long does it take

[silent cloak]

they refuse to add anything to improve gameplay

instead screwing with existing systems or adding in new wood

[fast pagoda]

not to mention the previous time on teh versions that became bedrock

[silent cloak]

or annoying ambient mobs

[fast pagoda]

and yes it's not like they're adding any groundbreaking... anything that's taking up their time

[olive sable]

well, since i know how to do so i would estimte i could make a full minecraft clone in a year or 2 if i had the same recources as mojang

[uneven pulsar]

I don't feel like everything they've added is completely useless but, there's a terrific amount of mob drops that are near useless

[silent cloak]

i think most updates after the nether one have been kind of shit

[fast pagoda]

they have a cash cow generating cash cow money and people unironically defend having 2 incompatible versions because "cross platform :("
i dont know of any other game that's considered ok

[uneven pulsar]

I can somewhat agree, the underground temple thingy was cool tho

[olive sable]

nah, the recent ones have been good, just took way too long to release for the litle content it actually gave

[silent cloak]

yeah those are pretty ok id say

but beyond that alot of useless mobs that just take up ram and cpu

[olive sable]

adding a single mob is something a mojang dev could do in a day, yet they take a year

[silent cloak]

and new wood types

even the warden sucks honestly

(it has no use)

[uneven pulsar]

I do remember that one time they added a fucking awesome new block for redstone and then they just broke it

[silent cloak]

thats different

redstone has a use

[rigid snow]

you don’t seem to understand. there has literally never been an official modding api for minecraft java. why do you think that is? maybe it’s because the game being java allows for easy modding? do you think those mods are possible to somehow make work on a native engine? please go look at fabric or something. you’re actually interacting with game internals directly the vast majority of the time. even in forge (to a lesser extent but still the majority of the time)

[silent cloak]

the whole creaking stuff is useless

[olive sable]

well now we are at a fundemntal game design conversation. but in all honesty, most of the minecraft things dont have a use, and thats fine

[silent cloak]

the sniffer is useless, phantoms are badly coded and also very useless

[uneven pulsar]

I wouldn't go as far to say "most" but there's definetly a huge amount of those

The only reason why is cause blocks by default have a use

[silent cloak]

https://tenor.com/view/bedrock-moment-bugrock-creeper-i-cant-stop-gif-4508476858246250678

[uneven pulsar]

cweepah

[olive sable]

the warden is basicly a boss, just like the ender dragon. and while useless i dont see people complaining about the ender dragone egg being useless

[silent cloak]

people have been for years

wdym

[fast pagoda]

why do you think that is?
they didn't need one
do you think those mods are possible to somehow make work on a native engine?
is it somehow impossible to recreate functionality in a different engine now? im not saying you should be able to drop fabric onto minecraft.exe and have it work like magic
half the mods that this would be relevant for would be saved by simply having an in-engine modkit, which is to say, a neutered version of the tools they ALREADY HAVE AND USE to add crap to the game currently

[silent cloak]

the whole end needs an update

[uneven pulsar]

That's cause it's tied to the speedrunning community

[olive sable]

i havent seen that

[uneven pulsar]

removing it or perhaps even changing it would be a death sentence

[silent cloak]

and you still need to beat the dragon to "win" the game

which is more of a feature than the warden

[olive sable]

yes that the dragon, im not talking about the dragon

[silent cloak]

you can finish the game without interacting with or even knowing the warden exists

there is 0 motivation to go to it

[fast pagoda]

the warden does look cool at last

least*

[uneven pulsar]

I feel like that's a little non point, exploration is a motive

[silent cloak]

sums up every recent mob addition

with 0 functionality

the creaking, the sniffer

etc

[olive sable]

same thing for the elder guardian, same thing for the woodland mansions, same thing for jungle temples, dessert temples, ... you get the point

[uneven pulsar]

Desert temples have some loot, wouldn't say they're useless

[silent cloak]

mansion can at least provide totems

the elder guardian has sponges which are pretty rare (and useful for big builds)

[olive sable]

so do the places where the warden lives, they actually have a fuckton of loot

[uneven pulsar]

Yeah well, I'm not the one saying those are useless

[silent cloak]

the new trial chambers kind of make them less meaningful in that regard

[olive sable]

the trial chambre is in my own opinion the only structure i dont really find fun to be in the game. i kinda hate going to the trial chambre ngl

[silent cloak]

yeah but its easier than the warden

[olive sable]

not really

just dont make noise and you wont get a warden

[silent cloak]

they should at least make the warden drop something of use

so many new dropless mobs

[olive sable]

the warden is a warden, its not meant to drop anything usefull, its there to guard the loot. you're not meant to want to kill it

[uneven pulsar]

all this minecraft talk made me boot up the game

[silent cloak]

i still think the wither is the best boss in the game with the most use and the most fun

[olive sable]

im currently in the procces of trying to figure out how to enable shaders on atm9

[fast pagoda]

the funny thing is i tried at times to just play bedrock because it's the native client etc but it's buggy, it's incompatible with servers meant for java (this is inexcusable as there are 3rd party translation layers RIGHT NOW that allow this, it's a will issue not a skill issue and that's a fact), and the gameplay differs in non-obvious and arbitrary ways for seemingly no reason other than "ehh didnt want to put THREE people on this one so it's only in bedrock for now (they were adding one(1) mob)"

[uneven pulsar]

Man, I dream of being able to code a cute little game one day, probably shouldn't do it with javascript tho

[fast pagoda]

that's the part that makes me say bedrock is pointless - all it has ever been is a worse version of the game in the name of "unifying the consoles" but if they cared about that surely they would care about unifying the entire playerbase at least in terms of the gameplay experience.

there is no reason i shouldnt be able to launch the same seed on bedrock/java and play the exact same playthrough OTHER than pure laziness on microsoft/mojang's part. lack of resources is solvable through adding more resources to support one of your biggest revenue generators - M$ took in $115 million in 2024 from just the mobile version (bedrock) - they can and should be able to do this if they wanted to, they just don't want to.

[olive sable]

3rd party translation layers iirc mojang had official servers where both platforms could join on, for the 1.20 update i think

[uneven pulsar]

Welp, you left no space to argue, you're right

smart bean

[olive sable]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCRfjPBBfjY
the seeds are almost the same now

[uneven pulsar]

almost

[olive sable]

yes almost, i hope they're working on making it fully the same but this is all we have for now

[fast pagoda]

🤓

i apologize if i came off too heated towards it, i just had to say my piece

[olive sable]

nah i fully understand

[fast pagoda]

this is a good thing (i am not trying to argue against bedrock existing, I think it COULD be good which is why it irritates me)

[uneven pulsar]

Can wandering traders get in boats?

[fast pagoda]

you can trap them inside a boat by pushing them

i dont think they can get out lol

[sick owl]

Finally bothered switching my uni laptop over to Linux

[fast pagoda]

welcome friend

what distro?

oh is that bazzite

[olive sable]

just my own 2 cents as a game-dev. they very easily could make bedrock the same, they just aren't doing so for god knows what reason. that doesn't inherently mean bedrock is a bad game. in my 10000 hours of playing bedrock the game has been fine for 99.99% of the time, with only the occasional bug once every 2 months

[fast pagoda]

agree

[sick owl]

Yeah since its immutable, stable, fairly fuss free and I like fedora

[fast pagoda]

i liked fedora from my time on nobara

i have bazzite on my ventoy but havent gotten to the point of trying an immutable distro

you know what im putting that on my laptop right now fg it

[glass flower]

i doubt very easily honestly. i mean there is so much code debt in java that you don't want to port over just for the sake of it. so its better to slowly replace old tech debt with new code in both versions

[olive sable]

they have had almost 10 years, i could do it in 1 or 2

[glass flower]

go work at mojang then

[olive sable]

nah i aint getting myself into that corporate shithole

[fast pagoda]

he cant because there's only jeb chained to a chair in the basement trying to maintain both versions

they arent hiring

[uneven pulsar]

and tiny agnes

[pulsar edge]

old consoles had dedicated rng hardware (which was often either based on the clock or a non-secure math operation), but when the console didnt provide the rng developers often just used the game ROM as an rng

[fast pagoda]

the only one to keep him company

my dedicated rng hardware is how much im willing to argue about a game i barely play anymore, it's a true rng

[olive sable]

agnes seems like a fun person, its a shame she works at mojang

[uneven pulsar]

Weren't the guys who made the old mc console versions working on a game ?

[tender river]

bazzite (and ostree-based distros) are like if nixos was based around docker instead of nix

[olive sable]

J4 studios?

[tender river]

its cool but also no thanks i'm never using it

[fast pagoda]

yeah that's why i've not gotten around to it because ihate docker

[uneven pulsar]

Erm actually, it's 4J studios

[fast pagoda]

and docker-like things

[olive sable]

same thing

[sick owl]

Also because it has a GNOME version which means I can use a really slick frontend for LLMs

https://github.com/qwersyk/Newelle

[uneven pulsar]

yeah them

They were working on a new game

[olive sable]

seems interesting

[uneven pulsar]

Damn, bro got that clanker build

[sick owl]

Ngl the only minecraft clone to truly live up to its rival is Vintage Story so far

[silent cloak]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1404155879774748896/1412429897120485514/GzzeEb5XMAARXPC-ezgif.com-video-to-gif-converter.gif

[uneven pulsar]

I've heard they got into some issues with itch.io because of the whole payment processors thingy

[rigid snow]

it’s from a community standpoint purely. i mean why do you think all these mods exist while no modding api exists. and i’m saying that you can’t really do that with a native game. reversing java is as easy as ./fernflower Main.class, for native reversing is hell and let’s not talk about the fact that we have two architectures and like five platforms. maybe to facilitate that they could ship debug symbols but then the question about security arises, and that people injecting stuff into the game on the regular isn’t safe. and it makes sense to not just not ship symbols, but to obfuscate further. this kind of ties back into the official modding API thing. you mentioned the toolkit they already have. i think that still would compromise security no matter the mod runtime architecture/engine they choose because there’s no automatic memory safety guarantees in the language (cpp) and the api may itself be unsafe. it’s a lot of work to have a shitty api that would never allow for nearly as much as java edition allows by simply running on the jvm and doesn’t make sense to support from mojangs perspective purely because of security concerns, and this approach breaks their world addon system

on the netcode translation layer: it’s not both ways. these translation layers like geysermc are only for letting bedrock clients onto java servers, not vice versa. feature parity of both games is good at first glance, but systems work fundamentally differently. it’s possible to directly translate the protocol both ways but that totally makes sense to not be an officially provided/supported thing. it’s a subpar experience for those who are connecting to a different game because they are familiar with the way their game works and the small differences will make it a bad experience. i also have not mentioned that bedrock addons are fundamentally incompatible with java which is why there isn’t a bedrock server adapter for java clients. oh and the cosmetics. and the emotes. etc etc

[uneven pulsar]

HOLY

[silent cloak]

WOAHHH

[uneven pulsar]

SHUT

[sick owl]

HOLY

[rigid snow]

not off-topic btw

[silent cloak]

tl;dr

[fast pagoda]

i knew something was cooking

[uneven pulsar]

https://tenor.com/view/talk-lizard-ironic-gif-25847938

[rigid snow]

idk ask chatgpt

[sick owl]

They did yeah, serve it indepedently on their site like Minecraft used to now

[silent cloak]

im happy for you, or sorry that it happened

[olive sable]

the only issue i have with open-world games, and especially procedurally generated ones, is that a lot of the world is kinda purposeless. in minecraft its fine cuz you can make your own fun with a lot of diffrent gamem echanics. but the games where you jsut build and destroy blocks are rmpty and boring

[uneven pulsar]

Oh, cool

[silent cloak]

clearly didnt play during alpha

also you can do shit like this

[olive sable]

in alpha the game got popular because it was till novel imo, now every block game is just a minecraft clone with worse features

[silent cloak]

thats because its the #1 game

and every talentless fool wants to mimic it

and then fail

[pulsar edge]

minecraft is obfuscate at build time, but mojang provides deobfuscation maps to modders for free

[silent cloak]

still dont know why they even obfuscate anymore

[uneven pulsar]

I feel like minecraft is one of those games that just can't be replicated, mojang has proven this numerous times with their failed games

[pulsar edge]

for java at least. bedrock they stopped giving out symbols like a year ago :p

[rigid snow]

it's not actual obfuscation, it's basically symbol mangling

[silent cloak]

still useless and annoying

[rigid snow]

idk why they call it obf

[silent cloak]

makes using NMS a pain in my balls

[pulsar edge]

which is a form of obfuscation

[silent cloak]

im convinced they added it just to piss the devs off

[olive sable]

me when vide settings exist

just max everything

[uneven pulsar]

I love sodium

[silent cloak]

salt fans

[uneven pulsar]

[rigid snow]

they kind of "accidentally" left debug symbols in the bedrock server build, then someone internally noticed and was like "hey we probably shouldn't do that" which is reasonable. the bedrock game client never had debug symbols, modding it is game reversing which is something cheat developers do like for actual games

and isn't easy by any measure

[pulsar edge]

I highly doubt the server symbols was an accident

[olive sable]

mojang failed games? never heard of them

oohhhh

mc legends

i forgot about that

[rigid snow]

scrolls

[pulsar edge]

I was about to say that too lol

[olive sable]

i thought mc dungeons did quite well?

[silent cloak]

its dead

[olive sable]

its dead?

[pulsar edge]

remember when mc dungeons uninstalled your C: drive

[silent cloak]

its been dead

for quite a while

those games never last

[olive sable]

bruh, i had that on ps+. i was plannign to still play that sometime

[silent cloak]

i think u still can

just nothing new

[sick owl]

It did aight but it was extremely easy and had no content without the DLC

[silent cloak]

the curse of mojang is everything they make other than MC usually dies

even the pre-microsoft games like cobalt and scrolls died

[olive sable]

i think mojang just doesn know how to make good game sand they have jsut been piggybackign on the work of notch

altho i have to say notch has some S tier shit code

[uneven pulsar]

Mc legends was actually a good idea but it was poorly implement, like they cared more about the visuals

[silent cloak]

Notch is working on a new game if im not mistaken

so that will be interesting

[uneven pulsar]

He is, it's a roguelike if I remember correctly

[rigid snow]

good games and shit code are inseparable

[silent cloak]

REAL

its because he used light theme

on eclipse

[rigid snow]

basically everyone did back then

[olive sable]

im on the right path then

[silent cloak]

na

i adopted dark very very early

[rigid snow]

are we talking 2009? holy unc

[silent cloak]

sometimes u would need to mod it into the IDE

[pulsar edge]

I remember changing my netbeans text theme to make it half-assed dark mode

[silent cloak]

i miss eclipse sometimes

[pulsar edge]

I dont

[rigid snow]

you can still use it. it's not dead

[silent cloak]

i know

i dont use java as often these days

[uneven pulsar]

https://tenor.com/view/neurosama-fortnite-dance-gif-4670400202155440145

[pulsar edge]

how long are you sober

[silent cloak]

never

[pulsar edge]

sober from java

[uneven pulsar]

On a scale from 1/10 how much of a pain is it to work with javascript?

[silent cloak]

i mean im doing a project for Hanakyo lately

but beyond that i never touch it

[pulsar edge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1235334425567559720.webp?size=48&name=impcheers

[fast pagoda]

I actually agree with all of these as far as why it would be hard, and why it wouldn't be a good experience for the players at least initially - but i don't think that makes it a valid excuse for ms here.

plenty of games built on c++ like bedrock have extremely robust modding capabilities which can change the way the game operates, it just needs to be a sandboxed API using some sort of scripting language. job done. you never have to show the underlying blackbox that is bedrock. of course you're never going to reach the level of customization that comes from being able to modify the game before it ever hits the JVM, but with the resources ms has i just do not buy it, not with the amount of time they've had.

many of the very very low level mods are ones that either modify the underlying game engine's rendering for performance or otherwise are forms of overhaul like Applied Energistics which would be quite difficult to enable via a modding api, yes, but there are plenty of games that expose that type of integration through their modding tools - it just requires effort and resources to maintain. Which again is all i'm really arguing, they just simply lack the will to do do that level of modification to bedrock to make it possible, which is fine, but that doesn't mean theyre immune to the criticism. And it also doesnt mean they get to pretend it's some unattainable impossibility. not after having this long to move towards it and all the money they've gotten in the meantime from this game - not to mention the whole thing where they forced people to buy java and bedrock SEPARATELY for years.

oh im chatting alright

Totally inexcusable if they werent putting those resources towards some form of unified product eventually

failing the modding issue even, it's even more unreal that there are any differences whatsoever in the gameplay mechanics of the two - java to my knowledge STILL has a different combat system than bedrock. redstone STILL behaves differently. they are STILL on different release cadences releasing different features seemingly arbitrarily.

[silent cloak]

https://tenor.com/view/lugi-sleep-luigi-mario-luigi-book-luigi's-mansion-luigi-nap-gif-9233207602314102479

[fast pagoda]

i dont think it'd be trivial at all but the point is they haven't even tried if this is where they're at after this long

[pulsar edge]

yeah they could probably add a C# api to bedrock pretty easily

and itd be fitting because C# is their own product

[silent cloak]

normally id cheer but its bugrock

[patent walrus]

holy essaying

[fast pagoda]

hi vani sorry im just schizoing a bit here

[pulsar edge]

I miss when neurobot reacted with essaying

[fast pagoda]

she does why do you think i have like 6 messaes in the last few hours that have that

[pliant palm]

schizophrenics know best when theyre talking to the smart voices

[patent walrus]

i accidentally removed essaying from somewhere and picked to make it stop crashing so much

[fast pagoda]

i like

it's literally me

[silent cloak]

how tf was it crashing'

[pulsar edge]

fair

NPE prolly

[silent cloak]

was the file corrupted or something

[fast pagoda]

crashing out from havingt to read all the essaying

[patent walrus]

if message length > 600 then add reaction by string, uh oh, discord's API said a reaction by that emoji doesn't exist, for some reason we always expected that emoji to exist so neurobot go kaboom

[silent cloak]

cant rename it?

[patent walrus]

that's what i did to fix it

[silent cloak]

ah

[patent walrus]

"fix" was just picking a different emoji in the config

anyhow im a lazy fella imma just

[stiff mica]

• Sam🔺 and Cipher argue Minecraft got popular for being novel and claim most new block games are just Minecraft clones with worse features. [Link](#programming message)
• Scrub, mlntcandy.jsx, and Cipher discuss obfuscation and modding: Java has deobfuscation maps for modders while Bedrock stopped providing symbols and requires difficult reversing, which frustrates developers. [Link](#programming message)
• afunyun.pt and Scrub argue Microsoft/Mojang could provide a proper modding API (suggesting C# for Bedrock) and criticize the lack of unification and differing mechanics between Java and Bedrock. [Link](#programming message)
• Sam🔺, RiceSquare, Cipher, and Scrub talk about Mojang’s other games (Minecraft Legends, Scrolls, Minecraft Dungeons), saying many of them underperformed or are dead. [Link](#programming message)
• Cipher, RiceSquare, mlntcandy.jsx, and Sam🔺 discuss Notch working on a new roguelike and joke about his code, IDEs, and light vs dark themes. [Link](#programming message)
• Vani, afunyun.pt, Scrub, and others debug NeuroBot crashing: the bot errored reacting to long “essaying” messages because a configured emoji didn’t exist, and Vani fixed it by changing the emoji. [Link](#programming message)

[fast pagoda]

discord api is

[silent cloak]

https://tenor.com/view/discord-discord-devs-discord-developers-discord-api-discord-employees-gif-25780576

[pulsar edge]

REAL

[silent cloak]

not as bad as the twitch one imo

the twitch API is so bad

[patent walrus]

the error was actually my fault

[olive sable]

the moment i look away everything breaks

[uneven pulsar]

vani jumpscare

[pulsar edge]

which one

[fast pagoda]

ive not had the displeasure of working with the twitch api yet

im sure it's horrid

[silent cloak]

its the worst thing ever

[pulsar edge]

helix?

[patent walrus]

I LOVE TWITCH EVENTSUB I LOVE TWITCH EVENTSUB

[silent cloak]

i have to use it for several projects with streamers

[pulsar edge]

simply don't?

[silent cloak]

i love needing 2 different fucking authentications just to manage polls and read

i love not being able to TEST polls without the streamer

[olive sable]

the triangle actually makes it very esasy to identifty myself in this text

nice

[rigid snow]

haven't even tried

[patent walrus]

paid mods lmaoooo

[pulsar edge]

I almost wrote a twitch eventsub client from scratch a few weeks ago but realized IRC had all the info I needed at the time

[silent cloak]

imagine paying for a mod on a worse version

[olive sable]

im pretty sure those are just texture packs and not actual mods

[fast pagoda]

damn yeah they really need me to pay $6 to be able to use java textures

[rigid snow]

no it's an actual mod

[silent cloak]

but yeah the guy who approved the twitch api has a special place in hell when he dies

its one of the worst ones ive ever had the misfortune to work with

[olive sable]

wait how are those called again on bedrock? behavioural packs?

[pulsar edge]

its too bad the base game doesnt have craftable armour

[rigid snow]

with actual custom items
my point is they DO have a modding api and i already mentioned that but you ignored that

[rare bramble]

What's up with companies not knowing how to create apis

[silent cloak]

because they hire coma patients to come up with the structure

[rigid snow]

"Add-On"

[silent cloak]

they actually go out and search for the most brain dead ape in the jungle and they give it a keyboard

[olive sable]

so they changed the name? im pretty sure it used to have a more stupid and longer name

[pulsar edge]

we have an api, its called RMI

[rigid snow]

no, i'm pretty sure "Add-On" specifically refers to mods that add content, like custom entities, blocks, items, etc. basically exactly what java content mods do

[silent cloak]

twitch forces u to use a user auth token to create/delete polls etc

but then they require an app token to get events for it

[pulsar edge]

simply stop using helix and use gql instead

[fast pagoda]

if that's the best they can do after 7 years, and then they charge $6 for it then no i do not consider that trying i consider that being paid to create an entire functioning factory complex, doing nothing more often than not and then slapping the people who contracted the job to you in the face by asking them to pay even more to use a lego set you put a coat of paint on

[olive sable]

oh i found it.
it used to be "texture packs" and "behaviour packs"

[rigid snow]

yeah they already have an api and i think it's js not c#

[pulsar edge]

ew

[rigid snow]

i haven't looked into it but pretty sure it is js

[silent cloak]

vile

[fast pagoda]

that thing is literally in game btw

that tinker's toolkit

[silent cloak]

https://tenor.com/view/javascript-sad-programmer-sad-seal-js-frontend-gif-17530726856445672143

[fast pagoda]

like you build some sort of forge station and literally play with legos to make "custom" items

[rigid snow]

wait no, it's typescript specifically

why tho

[pulsar edge]

forge is legacy, we use neoforge or quilt now

[silent cloak]

no one is using quilt

[rigid snow]

i was

[fast pagoda]

typing probably important

[rigid snow]

for a bit

[olive sable]

damn minecraft hdr doesnt work for me, everything is oversaturated

[pulsar edge]

actually, didnt quilt fall apart over allegations or something

[silent cloak]

it was useless from the start

just ports mostly

[rigid snow]

nvm it's not
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/minecraft/creator/documents/scripting/introduction?view=minecraft-bedrock-stable

js supported too

[pulsar edge]

incredible embed from learn.microsoft.com

[rigid snow]

nobody bothers with proper og images

[fast pagoda]

last few times using js ive been using js with jsdoc type hinting and it feels like typescript with extra work and no guarantees that it'll even be worthwhile to do so

[rigid snow]

btw it's FTB who got the license from the tinkers construct dev, ported it to bedrock and charges $6, not mojang

they can make it free

[pulsar edge]

fuck FTB

[fast pagoda]

FTB = frick the bedrock
maybe he's doing it on purpose to make suckers like me hate bedrock

[rigid snow]

absolutely genius

and make bank on the side

[fast pagoda]

[pulsar edge]

FTB has been predatory/anti-user on java too

[fast pagoda]

all the while john microsoft sits idly by raking in his billions

[jagged turtle]

why is bedrock api in js???

[rigid snow]

because it's microsoft

[jagged turtle]

oh right

[rigid snow]

your start menu is js

[fast pagoda]

they put one(1) junior frontend dev on it and left them to their exploits

[pulsar edge]

everything is JS now

[olive sable]

ew

[fast pagoda]

i thought minecraft pocket was cool when i could run it on my ipod touch back in the day
cant understand anyone who is comfortable with touch controls for 3d games though, that's beyond me

[olive sable]

its fine depending on the implementation

id still use a ps5 controller tho

[pulsar edge]

I saw a video the other day of high-level minecraft pocket pvp

[fast pagoda]

"fine" generally isn't a compromise i like to make with input methods in a realtime usecase

[rigid snow]

i'd say for a game like minecraft with its pacing it's more than fine

[fast pagoda]

i liked it on my phone with the razer kishi my brother got me over the holidays on year

having a full controller for it worked great

[sage crag]

!nothing

[stiff mica]

Nothing ever happens, all-in

[fast pagoda]

there's a whole world of gaming on phones and such that i just have no exposure to
makes sense a lot of the world it's a lot more accessible to have a phone capable of running games well than it is to have a console let alone a powerful PC

[rigid snow]

can we stop acting like js is the devil

[olive sable]

no

[fast pagoda]

im with mlnt here (although i will make fun of it and myself for using it in a hehee sort of way)

[olive sable]

in actuallity i dont have a trong opinion on js

its mostly for the memes

[fast pagoda]

it's a meme to make fun of it just like it is for basically any high level language
particularly js ig due to low barrier of entry

[rigid snow]

yeah no i agree its funny but like even a few hours ago a person was actually concerned that their js skills are of no use

[fast pagoda]

oh lord

[rigid snow]

some people especially newer ones don't understand it's a meme

[fast pagoda]

i guess that is the problem with dubiously labeled self deprecating humor

[sage crag]

its not true, everyone who learns js gets put into the javascript crushing machine

[fast pagoda]

lmao

that's just a corporate internship isnt it

[sage crag]

natural selection

[fast pagoda]

they come out using typescript
if they really went thru it they come out speaking only rust

[rigid snow]

one thing i’m strongly opinionated on is that js/ts should be considered one language and the distinction you made shouldn’t be made

if you’re familiar with js you can get going with ts in a few hours

max

[fast pagoda]

they are 2 sides of the same coin for sure i agree

[rare bramble]

Every single time I have used an applications and instantly felt like:
"wow! This feels awful to use"
It has always been a electron application, has happened like 5 times now and I have yet to find a counter example

[fast pagoda]

this is a function of chromium overbloat

[rigid snow]

js the language = electron the framework

[jagged turtle]

agree

[fast pagoda]

and also people using electron for things they really shouldn't be and not caring that it runs like ass

[jagged turtle]

sounds like a not-js issue

[fast pagoda]

that is not js' fault though

it's actually a victim here

imagine you're forced to execute an electron app

imagine...

poor js

you really have github to blame for that since electron exists because of atom

not that someone wouldn't have come up with a not-electron that does the same thing

[rigid snow]

atom was great tho

[jagged turtle]

hot take, electron isn't bad by itself
but the people that use it don't know when/how to use it correctly

[fast pagoda]

correct

[jagged turtle]

obv electron can have improvements

[fast pagoda]

it gets overapplied to things it shouldn't

[jagged turtle]

such as not being bundled with every app

but electron itself is not a bad thing

[fast pagoda]

i wish avalonia were used more

even tho it's .NET so that might make someone puke

[rigid snow]

you know what could solve this problem?

1. getting react-native onto linux
2. somehow convincing everyone react-native is now the default way to do react

[fast pagoda]

it works on both macos and android, it can't be that prohibitive to get it working on linux at this point

[jagged turtle]

probably isn't

[rigid snow]

3. throw react away and swap for other frameworks when needed

the main problem with rn on linux is that there’s no “default” graphics api

[jagged turtle]

I got reminded that microsoft decided to "move" office 365 into microsoft 365 copilot

[fast pagoda]

react web feels more redundant now than ever with how much you can do with just regular js + css + html shenanigans

you just dont get state management like react (unless you do go ahead and use like zustand, which is easy enough)

[rigid snow]

on every platform rn exists on there is a single preferred ui api that exists. on linux you have gtk and qt - forcing your app to depend on either is a nasty side effect, and doing something that browsers do like depending on skia completely defeats the point of react-native

a solution would be to port it to both but that sucks too

[olive sable]

id consider vulkan the current default

[rigid snow]

yeah i meant ui api not graphics

[olive sable]

ah

[rigid snow]

i corrected myself in the second message

[rigid snow]

btw for stuff like ui the graphics api is a solved problem, you have stuff like ANGLE

[fast pagoda]

you can thank KDE for going with Qt when it was not really FOSS licensed for the fragmentation

[rigid snow]

so true

[fast pagoda]

which pushed gimp to lay the egg that is gtk, gnome promptly jumped on that and now here we are

[rigid snow]

does anyone use angle directly for game dev

seems like a no brainer to me

but what do i know

[sage crag]

• ui
• solved problem
  

[fast pagoda]

angle is another web->desktop thing huh

[rigid snow]

not really

[fast pagoda]

crazy how that trajectory has worked out

[sage crag]

angle is a property of two connected lines

[fast pagoda]

i mean it's translating embedded openGL to native

webGL too

[rigid snow]

right

[rigid snow]

“for stuff like ui [rendering] the graphics api is a solved problem”

[olive sable]

hmmm, sleeping seems to have crashed my minecraft

[fast pagoda]

lmfao

[amber fractal]

Minecraft with the programmer mentality

[olive sable]

im just stuck here now

[rigid snow]

what do you mean? i always leave minecraft open when i sleep and it never crashes for me

[olive sable]

it jsut broke, idk

op, game crashed exit code 6

[rigid snow]

irl sleeping is incompatible with minecraft

[olive sable]

i wasnt irl sleeping

i was ingame sleeping

[amber fractal]

This sleep will never end

[olive sable]

new feature, sleep the full 10 hours

[rigid snow]

that’s a thick ass bar

why is it so tall

[olive sable]

also it was using 28GB of ram here lmao

[olive sable]

the image

i shoudl set the size smaller ye

i realize i gave minecraft a full 32gb or ram to use, but i wasnt expecting it to actually use that much

[fast pagoda]

vanilla works fine if i stand on this tree

[olive sable]

im pretty sure vanilla also works fine when you dont stand on that tree

[fast pagoda]

it does

but standing on this tree is about all i'm gonna do i'm afraid

verdict: just dont mod it like crazy and it worko

maybe our kind overlord microsoft is just trying to make sure we have a seamless experience without a low level modding api

[fast pagoda]

waybar has always come out at some ridiculous size by default when i mess with it
cachy's default config for it has it pretty dummy thicc

[sage crag]

om, 116 fps with rtx 3080 and ryzen 9 5900x

marvellous

[fast pagoda]

it is 4k as well

to be fair

[sage crag]

its 120 fps capped with vsync too

[fast pagoda]

and also is utilizing gpu at like 12% cuz it's capping

[fast pagoda]

vsync should NOT be 120 that is for sure lmao

[sage crag]

probably gsync somehow

[fast pagoda]

gsync would be 240 as well this monitor has it

[sage crag]

i mean on linux

its patchy

[fast pagoda]

yeah it's definitely wonky though

[olive sable]

ig et about 150 fps with performance mods and shaders on 5950x and 3090

[sage crag]

have you seen what happens if you watch a video on discord in fullscreen with gsync/freesync enabled

[olive sable]

no

[fast pagoda]

i try to avoid full screening things, wayland is not a happy camper with it in general on kde right now

at least kwin isnt

[sage crag]

with shaders its really an unfair comparison, with different shaders, and resolution

that is 1440p with seemingly low settings on the shaders

[olive sable]

medium

but ye 1440p indeed

[sage crag]

why does the light look so bad om

smooth lighting off

beautiful shaders

[olive sable]

i havent really messed with the setting much yet besides enabling the shaders and the render distance

i set it to 24 cuz 32 made me get lagspikes while moving

[sage crag]

you're also underground and not looking at anything

culling and all that

[olive sable]

i tested it above ground

i was actually on my way to makes hoes

[sage crag]

test it on the same seed in the same location

[olive sable]

fine

give me a second

[sage crag]

u dont need to

its just a useless comparison

[olive sable]

i mean, i have time

[fast pagoda]

lmao i read this wrong

[olive sable]

???

oh

[fast pagoda]

https://tenor.com/view/ben-stiller-acting-tough-tough-strut-gif-7551880

[olive sable]

the wheat farm in the background here is automatic but you need to feed it hoes

[sage crag]

this game has it set to 12 chunk render distance

probably want to copy that

[olive sable]

without mods then i guess?

[fast pagoda]

well im trying to install nvidium but github is seemingly down for me

which is strange

nvm had to restart browser classic

[olive sable]

idk how well nvidium palys with atm9 so i havent tried it

[fast pagoda]

oh i thought you said you were using it earlier

what are you using

[olive sable]

so like what are we doing comaprison off rn? vanilla?

[silent cloak]

it probably wont

[sage crag]

nvidium isnt compatible with iris

[fast pagoda]

i have no idea im just curious if the mods do anything

[olive sable]

just the basic atm9 mods, so sodium

[silent cloak]

nvidium breaks very very veryyyy easily

[sage crag]

its also not updated to mdoern iris

[silent cloak]

when its works its good tho

[olive sable]

this doesnt use iris, its oculus

probably still not compatiple with nvidium tho

[sage crag]

its the same

.

[silent cloak]

if ur playing an atm pack

then 99% of optimization mod additions will be broken

[fast pagoda]

oh god last time curseforge was on a pc of mine i uninstalled it in protest because of overwolf something something angy something something wow mods

[silent cloak]

never installed it

prism ftw

[sage crag]

i just use prism

before that multimc and uh, whatever was between multimc and prism

there was one

[fast pagoda]

oh that works for atm9? kk fk curseforge still

[sage crag]

probably

prism can import modpacks from curseforge or modrinth iirc

[silent cloak]

people have been saying fuck curseforge since they bought minecraftforums and bukkit

so nothing new

[fast pagoda]

zamn i must've been MALDING because i apparently deleted my entire curseforge account

it wasnt even about minecraft it was because they were forcing overwolf to be included with it or something, all i used it for was WoW mods

i like when i look for packages and a random ridiculously niche haskell package or 2 appears

[silent cloak]

lel

[fast pagoda]

not me not having java runtime installed

[silent cloak]

u can download it through the launcher

[fast pagoda]

paru is installing it but im pondering atm

[sage crag]

why would u do that

[silent cloak]

i dont need java for most things

and some versions need older ones

[sage crag]

8

[olive sable]

welcome to minecraft, would you like to enable the narrator?
narrator: unavailable

[silent cloak]

always go for Adoptium

[sage crag]

not the java version the number

[fast pagoda]

was going to say why 8 is so old

but you answered that already lol

[sage crag]

if you use arch you should try to stick to the main repositories as far as you can

[silent cloak]

i will not use arch

[sage crag]

no real reason to use another java version, performance gains are minimal

[silent cloak]

Adoptium has other features

[fast pagoda]

yeah if it's on a non-aur repo that's the one i'm going for no matter what unless i have a good reason to use the aur package

[silent cloak]

including another and better GC

alot of production environments use it now too

[sage crag]

if its not: zgc shenadoah (or their generational variants) then its really not worth anything

besides that application is only useful for servers

gc pauses arent an issue on singleplayer

[fast pagoda]

isnt adoptium just a build of openjdk anyways

the jre should be the same essentially

[sage crag]

i think its a build of openjdk-j9

which is a version of openjdk with tweaks to the generational gc

generational gc is the default for java at the moment but there are better alternatives if you run a server

[olive sable]

disableing vsync and fps cap i get about 1100fps on vanilla

[fast pagoda]

it's time to install GraalVM

[sage crag]

if you use arch there should be one called zing in the aur

its the fastest one i have tried

[silent cloak]

GraalVM is pretty good too from what ive heard

[sage crag]

not that its worth anything for client fps benchmarks

[sage crag]

its good but the community edition is neutered

[silent cloak]

eww

[fast pagoda]

graal was what i just found when searching essentially "fastest jre 21 implementation"

[sage crag]

it misses lots of the opts from the enterprise edition

[silent cloak]

no wonder Adoptium is beating them

[sage crag]

graalvm CE definitely still faster than adoptium

just less popular

[sage crag]

https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/zing-21-bin
this one

[silent cloak]

https://github.com/brucethemoose/Minecraft-Performance-Flags-Benchmarks

[fast pagoda]

there's an atm10 on curseforge @olive sable any particular reason to use atm9 over 10

[silent cloak]

i recommend reading if ur interested

[sage crag]

i have my own set of flags for servers

[silent cloak]

kind of old but it goes over a lot

na its more than that

[olive sable]

the server that shadow pays for is on atm9

[silent cloak]

its benchmarks and some other info

its an interesting read

[fast pagoda]

ah

[sage crag]

i've seen this before but the information is outdated

[silent cloak]

yeah only to java 17

[sage crag]

not just that

it mentions things about the shenandoah gc that just arent true anymore

[olive sable]

if yall want to join im sure shadow would be fine with it, since we know yall

[silent cloak]

Aikar flags are still fire i think

[sage crag]

they are all "good enough"

[silent cloak]

not sure about newer versions

[sage crag]

flags are the least worry unless you are minmaxing server throughput

[silent cloak]

sadly i often have to

i might play with making a generator for flags

[velvet crest]

You have unlocked new role

[rigid snow]

le

[sage crag]

[olive sable]

[silent cloak]

?????

[olive sable]

you have embed perms now

[sage crag]

embed perms

[silent cloak]

im not new tbh

this is my production / professional account

[rigid snow]

a pro

[sage crag]

fake

pro doesnt exist

[silent cloak]

i work with some of the vedal verse personally now so i have separate accounts

[sage crag]

its a post scarcity economy

[silent cloak]

Vedal's Secret 2 in the works champs

[olive sable]

you stopped being a plebeian, welcome to the bourgeois

[sage crag]

its alex's alt

[rigid snow]

[fast pagoda]

i knew it you're vedal

that's why your name is green

[fast pagoda]

lmfao christ

[silent cloak]

na

[sage crag]

we can solve it by pinging vedal

[silent cloak]

i wont say anything because my personal account kept getting spammed in servers like these asking about leaks

[rigid snow]

[sage crag]

i knew it i knew it it's alex

[olive sable]

i work with some of the vedal verse vedal would not call it the vedal verse i dont think

[silent cloak]

na

[rigid snow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1199359059753697302/1295647276987056149/image-11.gif

[silent cloak]

alex has some of my code tho

[fast pagoda]

i don tneed to ping vedal, he knows when i need him and comes running

[silent cloak]

(for Rai's subathon counter)

[sage crag]

i dont have enough malicious intent to deduce your identity

say something rude

[olive sable]

[silent cloak]

https://tenor.com/view/no-i-don't-think-i-will-cap-avengers-marvel-gif-6420739801263939210

[sage crag]

[silent cloak]

Vedal's Secret 2 is actually in the works tho

[sage crag]

[olive sable]

i barely know who vedal all "employs" so i probably wont know his real identity anyways

[fast pagoda]

he has more employees than we realize

[silent cloak]

im not working with vedal directly

some of his friends yes

[olive sable]

i dont care

[sage crag]

samuel triangle

[olive sable]

my name is not short for samuel

[sage crag]

it is now

[olive sable]

nuh-uh

[sage crag]

visual studio 2

[fast pagoda]

you've heard of visual studio 22
but not visual studio 2

god dammit konii

[sage crag]

im too fast

[silent cloak]

im waiting for one of the devs to finish some of the UI work

so I can get back to working on it

[olive sable]

damn that gif looked less weird in the gif picker

[sage crag]

you arent a UI artist :suseg:

[fast pagoda]

kek

[silent cloak]

NOPE

[sage crag]

some kind of programmer... in #programming

not possible

must be a spriter

[silent cloak]

soda already has hired artists

(and aquwa)

[sage crag]

you are artists

[silent cloak]

its my job to code not draw

[sage crag]

whatever you say senior graphics designer

[olive sable]

bro is really out here leaking everything

[silent cloak]

na

[rigid snow]

inconspicuous musician role:

[silent cloak]

u guys wont know what to expect

[sage crag]

aquwa involved, there will be backs

[olive sable]

that is kinda how secrets work yes

nooo

[silent cloak]

i talked to Hana about it too but it depends on how soda does the story

[sage crag]

[tender river]

fish erm

[olive sable]

who tf is soda anyways?

[silent cloak]

NeuroSoda

[olive sable]

ohhh

i c i c

[silent cloak]

he made Vedal's Secret

[olive sable]

i know

[silent cloak]

i was brought on only for the sequel

so we are going Unity now

[olive sable]

bro stop leaking bruh

[sage crag]

no no actually keep doing it

we can reverse engineer vs2 before it releases

[silent cloak]

u guys couldnt guess the plot and gameplay if I gave u a 100 years

[fast pagoda]

i spawned into a very welcoming world to watch myself get killed in 4k by these assholes

[sage crag]

and beat them to the market

[sage crag]

YOU

[olive sable]

jsut keep it pg please

[sage crag]

small elie

[tender river]

cipher whats your social security number again? i forgot

[sage crag]

me as well i also

forgot

[silent cloak]

she is friends with my alt

[sage crag]

🤔

[rigid snow]

you’re not different people

“with my alt” lol

[silent cloak]

na he is an idiot

[sage crag]

could be true could be fake

[silent cloak]

that dude just sits there

[sage crag]

it quack

[olive sable]

hhmmmm

[fast pagoda]

i could see it

[olive sable]

does have some quack vibes

[sage crag]

no red triangle though

[silent cloak]

OHHH him

we talked about some cool AI stuff before

[sage crag]

[olive sable]

as ceo of the red triangle cult i see quack as a possebility anyways

[sage crag]

do you know how many red triangles i have met outside of neurocord

[olive sable]

5

[silent cloak]

what is a red triangle

is it a club

[olive sable]

🔺

[sage crag]

more

[sage crag]

its a 🔺

[silent cloak]

but why

[sage crag]

Product Review: Necomimi Brainwave Cat Ears Liven Up the Workplace

[silent cloak]

illuminati

[olive sable]

its red

[sage crag]

correct

hm

[olive sable]

its the perfect shape

[silent cloak]

the new neuro order

[sage crag]

knows quack, is not quack

[silent cloak]

strongest shape

[sage crag]

knows elvyn, is not elvyn(?)

[olive sable]

nah this has nothing to do with neuro

[sage crag]

hasnt said silly yet

not superbox

[fast pagoda]

usage of the particular reaction shushing jak indicates that cipher here has seen some shit though

[silent cloak]

sounds like a gmod youtuber

[olive sable]

its quack's cousin

[sage crag]

isnt alex(?)

[tender river]

necomimi

[silent cloak]

alex is my favorite vtuber

[olive sable]

"vtuber"

[silent cloak]

yeah

[sage crag]

[silent cloak]

alex from Vedal's Secret

[sage crag]

byter

[silent cloak]

@scarlet arch

[sage crag]

both on vacation

[silent cloak]

im not anymore

i also hate rust

[sage crag]

where's your website

[sage crag]

not byter

[silent cloak]

been busy

[jagged turtle]

he is a vtuber

just not a virtual youtuber

[sage crag]

mod alt

nop vanor too busy making cursed ramen

[fast pagoda]

where is byter i havent seen them around much

[sage crag]

vacation

[silent cloak]

in Hanakyos server

[sage crag]

vani too busy debugging /tldr

cloudburst too busy playing umamusume

[fast pagoda]

i have searched this name and the twitter is

[sage crag]

shiro too busy having birthday

[fast pagoda]

something

[silent cloak]

for hanakyo?

[rigid snow]

oh god is this your first introduction

[sage crag]

do not dive deeper.

[silent cloak]

happy birthday shiro

[fast pagoda]

[silent cloak]

u searched hana?

[sage crag]

hold up i need to make an obsidian doc to identify you

[fast pagoda]

https://tenor.com/view/flynn-dixon-blind-crash-hugo-gif-11026353490696108102

im good guys

[silent cloak]

what if i just lie a lot

[sage crag]

true

[fast pagoda]

that would be standard

[scarlet arch]

Huh?

What up

[sage crag]

byter

[silent cloak]

Byter everyone misses you

[olive sable]

hold on i need to make a link with unsafe html code that gives me acces to the username of your pc

[sage crag]

not left or right or down

[scarlet arch]

Am always here, just lurking

[olive sable]

hhmmm

byter know them

now thats interesting

[fast pagoda]

worth using just for this feature

[sage crag]

byter how much do you know about vedal's secret

[fast pagoda]

hi byter how is your vacation i was just mentioning havent seen you around and you've been name dropped because your homunculus here @silent cloak has escaped his flask

[sage crag]

homunculus

om

[silent cloak]

they are interrogating me

[scarlet arch]

Is it the one with Alex and him as basically fanfic?

[fast pagoda]

[sage crag]

aware

[silent cloak]

the sequel is gonna be bigger

[olive sable]

ye thats the one

[sage crag]

oh good

[scarlet arch]

You didn't have to out me like that

[silent cloak]

i didnt even know u were in there

i just joined because I was talking a bunch with Hana

[sage crag]

byter we know what you are

[scarlet arch]

[olive sable]

i knew anyways

[scarlet arch]

Oh yeah I wasn't serious. I love Hana.

[silent cloak]

same thing happened with Ellie and some others

[sage crag]

SILKSONG TODAY

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

a

[silent cloak]

https://tenor.com/view/buzz-lightyear-gif-21327280

[olive sable]

guys i think konii might like hollowknight

[sage crag]

silence

[sage crag]

i have been waiting for this game for 6 years

[olive sable]

cool i guess

[silent cloak]

Silksong

[sage crag]

vedal's secret 3 should take 6 years to produce too

[silent cloak]

more like Silk Secret

am i right

[sage crag]

no.

hmm runs minecraft server

[olive sable]

i cant tell if konii is hating on vedals secret or not

[silent cloak]

it is actually costing money to make the 2nd

[sage crag]

i have no strong opinion about vedal or his secret

[silent cloak]

part of why im taking most of the dev work on myself

(also because i want to)

artists arent free

neither are music artists

[olive sable]

if yall ever need more devs on the team, im cheap, i need money

[rigid snow]

the trend shows it will involve 500 people. this chat will be completely replaced by alts of regulars

[sage crag]

so you are highly invested

[scarlet arch]

Knew what.

[silent cloak]

its a cool project and he dmed me asking if i wanted to join

so yeah

[sage crag]

he, being soda

[silent cloak]

ye

[tender river]

only regulars that would be comfortable with unity

so uuh

[sage crag]

its chayleaf

[tender river]

[olive sable]

you said so yourself that you are in that server

[sage crag]

oh wait

is the name colour a hint

[rigid snow]

the third game doesn’t have to be unity

[scarlet arch]

Oh, right. Yeah

[silent cloak]

most people here probably use Unity

alex and vedal do

[tender river]

you're so right it will use a custom game engine in hblang

[sage crag]

camillo

[tender river]

lmao no

[silent cloak]

https://tenor.com/view/unity-game-dev-documentation-unity-manual-unity-doc-gif-27095341

[olive sable]

i do custom engine deving mostly

[scarlet arch]

Yeah no. But I also don't game dev

[silent cloak]

im on to make a game not an engine

especially with others building levels

[sage crag]

cant be camillo no mutual with elvyn

[olive sable]

did you know that the point of an engine is to make games

i make engines for games

[silent cloak]

yes but there is no point in building an entire engine for most cases

[rigid snow]

leaked… platforme r..

[silent cloak]

ha no

i watch my words guys

[sage crag]

i watch your words too

[olive sable]

i see your point, but i do so anyways cuz my games run at 13000fps

[sage crag]

[silent cloak]

i aint working on a AAA realistic 3D game

[olive sable]

me neither

[rigid snow]

neither is sam

[silent cloak]

and i dont want to deal with ECS with this

plus i can make tools easily in Unity for the art people to work with

[olive sable]

thats fair

[rigid snow]

a hammer

[sage crag]

im losing my mind

[olive sable]

same

[silent cloak]

hopefully you can find it

[rigid snow]

a ladder is probably convenient for level design too

[olive sable]

i have no clue what is happneign anymore

[tender river]

i never had one in the first place

[silent cloak]

https://tenor.com/view/unity-errors-beloved-heart-locket-gif-2040718952292911474

[sage crag]

curses

[tender river]

no maybe some remains

[olive sable]

jsut dont use unity

[silent cloak]

better than godot

or unreal

https://tenor.com/view/indie-game-dev-depression-gif-24365137

[fast pagoda]

sam can i get a copy of your engine when you're done because it seems like it'll be great for visualizers

[silent cloak]

ive built engines before but for my own uses

[sage crag]

im going to find a sample of your dna and clone you

[olive sable]

[silent cloak]

good ill have someone to help work on projects

[sage crag]

nope im burying the clone in a hole