programming

[desert plaza]

so like...

i'm confused because of all the talk about linking to libc

why tf do i need to link to libc

to exit with a status code

[sage crag]

so you dont have to write boilerplate

[tender river]

yuh

so you dont have to write _start and memcpy

so you can just write main with whatever code you want

[desert plaza]

if i write a program that calls exit(0), do i need libc?

[tender river]

for memcpy, yes

[desert plaza]

MEMCPY aahahhha

[tender river]

if you write a program that defines a memcpy and calls exit(0) you dont need libc

[sage crag]

@handler("entry", fn(): never {
  return @syscall(0x3C, 0)
})

no, you could write it like this

compiler wont use memcpy for code that only uses registers

obviously

[desert plaza]

when u say "use memcpy" you're referring to the compiler linking the object code to libc?

[tender river]

the compiler just literally emits code that uses the memcpy symbol

so the memcpy symbol has to be present when linking the final executable

[sage crag]

the compiler will sometimes generate a call to memcpy. this memcpy could be defined externally or internally. the easiest way to get memcpy defined is to link libc.

[tender river]

it can be provided by you or by libc

[opaque wharf]

Compiler not having memcpy implementation :evilsmh:

[sage crag]

it was a decision

we talked about it

this wouldnt matter for 90% of people because they would just clang -o program program.o

m pacman

[opaque wharf]

Why do you have so many repo

[sage crag]

gotta break as many things as possible

[tender river]

cachyos provides packages built with extra cpu features

the other repos are for fallback

[opaque wharf]

Extra CPU feature?

[tender river]

software is normally compiled with compatibility in mind

so you can use linux on a pc from 2008

which means you cant necessarily use post-2008 cpu features

[sage crag]

@desert plaza how is it going

[desert plaza]

made hello world

[opaque wharf]

Oh you mean the target CPU compile flag?

Like using AVX and whatnot

[sage crag]

you dont have to use 0x1

you can write 1

but nice

[rigid snow]

0b1

[sage crag]

yes that also works

[rigid snow]

0o1

[tender river]

:set syntax=zig

[sage crag]

i dont think octal exists

wa

[rigid snow]

fake base

[desert plaza]

ohh nice

[sage crag]

there is an hblang plugin for vim

https://git.ablecorp.eu/koldinium/hblang.vim

[opaque sigil]

yeah their v4 repos for example compile everything with avx-512 support

[sage crag]

@desert plaza i dont know how good it is but at least two people use it

[rigid snow]

must be great then

[desert plaza]

woow

[sage crag]

windows must be amazing

[rigid snow]

can confirm at least two (2) people use it

[tender river]

i've recently had to use windows for like an hour, windows windowing just kills me

[rigid snow]

they had one job smh

[tender river]

alt tab

[brisk laurel]

does anyone have a have i been pwned alternative websites?(dont mind my email)

[tender river]

the worst way to switch windows

[opaque wharf]

How much performance is gained tho?

[rigid snow]

i straight up don’t use alt tab on windows lmao

[sage crag]

0 ± 10%

[tender river]

alt tab is so bad imagine using a linked list for switching windows

[sage crag]

some things its better, sometimes its worse

[tender river]

that is what alt tab is

[desert plaza]

i haven't customized neovim in so long where do i even put .vim files

[sage crag]

mostly its the same

[brisk laurel]

how do i alt tab immediatly without showing th options

[rigid snow]

isn’t it just alt tab

without holding

[opaque wharf]

Alt tab then quickly release it

Wait no

I think that didn't work on windows

[tender river]

is there any good way of switching windows on windows though

i know they have the weird overview thing but it still requires selecting a window with your mouse

[tender river]

alt esc apparently

[fast pagoda]

what

windows actually has a fairly good tiling setup lol

now

with how snapping works

i mean

it's not tiliing

but

[tender river]

i dont want tiling

i want switching

[fast pagoda]

as far as swapping windows and what not it seems about as good as any DE i've tried

althoguh it's not as good at moving windows around themselves

ig it depends on what you're specifically wanting it to do

[brisk laurel]

how did i not realize this now holy this is a life saver

[tender river]

do DEs just suck in general

[fast pagoda]

yes :(

[opaque wharf]

Make one then

[sage crag]

anyone working on ableos will have an opportunity to contribute to a DE

[tender river]

my sway setup works fine thank you very much

[fast pagoda]

i think it's more there's just not a great one size fits all way to config stuff like "what do you press to move a window to this location" there's an intuitive way for each person but not everyone

so they take their own opinionated approach

[sage crag]

did you figure it out

[tender river]

i dont even have that good of a setup in sway, my organization is just "a billion tabs", but because i see where they are it works well

[desert plaza]

no

[tender river]

well i use workspaces too obviously

[fast pagoda]

me when niri and i just scroll sideways to find what's needed

i know the general direction it's in

[tender river]

this works well on mobile too btw

since the tabs are clickable

which means my sway setup is crossplatform

[desert plaza]

i give up, not worth my time rn

[opaque sigil]

isn't the whole point of neovim to NOT have .vim files

[desert plaza]

uncustomized neovim is fine anyway

[tender river]

the point is backwards compatibility while also adding lua

[fast pagoda]

the whole point of neovim is to know the keybinds perfectly and be a wizard hackerman

[opaque sigil]

i see

[fast pagoda]

but if you dont and dont have it set up right the point is to be mad

[desert plaza]

and i

am only a casual

neovim-er

[fast pagoda]

im wors ethan that

i consider having a document open in neovim a dangerous situation

because i have no idea what the fuck im about to save

it's certainly not what i want

one day ill take that 38 minute tutorial or whatever

[desert plaza]

wdym you don't know

you don't have sight?

[fast pagoda]

the only thing i'm sure how to do in vim/vi/neovim anything of the sort

is press q

well

:q

to get the hell out of there

i have sight which i use to see my text getting annihilated

[sage crag]

btw, you can also use "Hello, World\n".len

its a comptime constant

it doesnt have any computation cost

[desert plaza]

you don't know about i?

[fast pagoda]

i know how to use nano and micro

and they do what i need them to do

[desert plaza]

smh no modal editor

[fast pagoda]

my editor needs 1 modal

editing text the same way

every single time

no matter how i got to that point

[desert plaza]

i'm confused

[fast pagoda]

i dont want the movement and functionality to be tied to keys that are also just the same ones i use for typing in the editor unless a real modifier like holding super or mod or something is involved

in vim if i accidentally decide i want to place a colon at the wrong time oops im in the command menu and ive broken something

and then i have to figure out how the hell im supposed to undo that

100% of the time what i end up doing is forcefully closing the entire terminal instance

because vim has taken over all my keybindings

and i cant even force close it like normal

[opaque sigil]

clearly microsoft's edit is the future

[fast pagoda]

i hesitate to even ask

im imagining their idea of copilot

or whatever

[desert plaza]

sounds like you just need to git gud bro

[opaque sigil]

https://github.com/microsoft/edit

[fast pagoda]

im imagining the voice mode copilot shit that was like

[desert plaza]

[fast pagoda]

"spend 3000 years telling the ai to make a trivial edit"

oh

the sad thing is

i'd probably know how to use this better

without any other information

it's stupid because like i can use midnight commander

i can use ranger

just fine

but as soon as it's in the context of editing a document

it's over

and ranger is literally vim the file manager

it's entirely just lack of effort because every time ive ever had a reason to use it, it's in the middle of trying to fix something

and i am like fuck this get me out of here where's nano i need to be sure this actually worked

i just cant use h j k l as keybinds while im in a document it's impossible

those are for typing words

[azure oyster]

man, i type ls on windows terminal ...

[fast pagoda]

i thought it supports that but like barely

like you can't even ls -a or anything

just ls

[tawny wren]

I do that too, don’t feel bad.

[opaque sigil]

powershell has aliases for things like that

[desert plaza]

alias ls = dir

[opaque sigil]

my favourite part of pwsh

[fast pagoda]

ok yeah that's prob what it was cuz i was always in powershell and it half supports posix//gnutls syntax

[tawny wren]

I once thought it actually supported ls, but I think it was just mingw being installed.

[azure oyster]

in ps yes, im using cmd

[fast pagoda]

but why

[tawny wren]

I don’t even know if I can use Windows Terminal right now…

[fast pagoda]

i ask, unironically, after just going on a whole rant about how vim is too hard

[midnight sigil]

HOW IS A FUCKING DOS COMMAND AUTO MODDED

[tender river]

vimtutor, or :Tutor in nvim

[azure oyster]

fresh install windows, dunno why but default terminal using cmd

[tawny wren]

Wait what?

[midnight sigil]

13 characters is all I typed in that message

fuck auto mod

[fast pagoda]

i know every time im in it i see the thing "JUST 38 MINUTES!!!!"

[tawny wren]

I wanna know which command it is.

[midnight sigil]

check dm

[fast pagoda]

not technically supposed to mention what caused you to get automodded as that's considered evading the automod so yea

[desert plaza]

gimme

[tawny wren]

It’s seriously stupid.

[fast pagoda]

there was a time i was unable to post in this discord because something was flagging my guild tag as not allowed

which was just 1 japanese character

so

[midnight sigil]

lol

[tawny wren]

It’s a completely normal command, so I don’t see what could be considered wrong.

[azure oyster]

i just found out that queenpb share audio files of karaoke streams on google drive
to bad i cant play audio as a playlist directly, have tried a few app but it suck so i made my own lmao

[tawny wren]

I plan on migrating my PC from an old case to a new case, but I have to wait until I’m off work to do so.

[azure oyster]

havent built my own pc yet, still moving around every few weeks so using laptop more comfortable

for now at least

[tawny wren]

I got the Fractal Design Focus G.

[midnight sigil]

I'm just going to try some keywords that may or may not get flagged, just treat me as schizo

what that's specific

[tawny wren]

Not because it was cheap, but because it was one of the cases that had a 5.25 bay.

[azure oyster]

i actually have fractal pop mini air case at my parent house, just the case

[midnight sigil]

so it was an exact match and not a fuzzy one

weird automod

[opaque sigil]

i mean, it's pretty clear why it got automodded

assuming you put those two commands together

[tawny wren]

Maybe someone thought that the command was a sin against humanity.

[midnight sigil]

should I learn more western history

what was the story behind

I don't understand

[opaque sigil]

it's a drug/hallucinogen

[desert plaza]

WHAT

[midnight sigil]

what

[azure oyster]

[desert plaza]

oh wait

ohhhh

[midnight sigil]

is it an alias or the actual name for that chemical

[desert plaza]

no equal sign?

[opaque sigil]

abbreviation

[midnight sigil]

oh the first three characters?

[opaque sigil]

yeah

[midnight sigil]

mods should work harder on their regex usage

[desert plaza]

bro that is fukin funny

automod really reached for that one

[midnight sigil]

my two beloved daily command turned out to be drugs

is this why I'm addicted to CLI interfaces?

[opaque sigil]

[desert plaza]

[midnight sigil]

there was an equal sign tho

[opaque sigil]

interesting filter then

[midnight sigil]

I bet the filter is like something (\S+?) in between the characters

mods verify my answer if you sees this

[desert plaza]

bime to webscrape all of google

[rigid snow]

bwaahahahahaha what

[midnight sigil]

proper internet educations should not be enforced by law, it's the parents' responsibility

[brisk laurel]

this is real btw

[midnight sigil]

now they're fucking the whole internet up, just because of some irresponsible parents that doesn't want to do parenting, while complaining about the inaction of government

[brisk laurel]

this will be in the uk and austrailia god i hope it wont make it to google
also source
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/jul/30/youtube-google-ai-age-verification

[midnight sigil]

it's a good thing. not how it's going to be implemented tho

[fast pagoda]

Oh look 1984

[midnight sigil]

the big brother

[desert plaza]

guys we gotta learn newspeak asap

[midnight sigil]

maybe it's already happening, with all the new weeb slangs

we're in a transition state

collective shout was a decoy to hide all the scary bits that are changing

[fast pagoda]

i can't discuss this topic ill get banned from the entire eurozone for dangerous ideals

[desert plaza]

i love big brother

[midnight sigil]

same

I prioritize big brother

[fast pagoda]

i mean yeah honestly each time i entered youtube i thought wont someone think of the childrens

[maiden geyser]

it's australia

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1367568953035194439/1371289145695273061/SLURS.gif

i already pinged my briton friend

[fast pagoda]

australia started as a prison island and it remains a prison island

[sage crag]

bnub

[maiden geyser]

why did you have to censor the australia part anyway

[fast pagoda]

why did our traffic drop 70% wtf

[midnight sigil]

nub

[sage crag]

somewhere in europe: why did our traffic increase 70% wtf

[midnight sigil]

"our ad services are only receiving 10% traffics compared to the previous week!"

[maiden geyser]

pyrocynical arrives at australia? announce age verifications everywhere

[fast pagoda]

the real funny part will be when that somewhere in europe is not in the EU and they wonder why theyre getting lapped and losing influence

[maiden geyser]

guess a reasonable trade off for all those customer-friendly regulations

[fast pagoda]

that's it i'm installing powershell on arch

[sage crag]

wtf

[tender river]

thats it im installing dwm.exe on arch

[fast pagoda]

you know this .exe format is intriguing

[sage crag]

m

[fast pagoda]

is there perhaps a whole distro based on these Exceese?

[desert plaza]

ExceeseOS

[tender river]

no

we should name it after a js framework

how about

angularos

or

reactos

[fast pagoda]

Sounds agile

[sage crag]

denos

im a tv today

[desert plaza]

today?

[tender river]

today

[fast pagoda]

i thinkj i've got it

we could call it

[sage crag]

and yesterday

[fast pagoda]

millennium

[sage crag]

not sure about tomorrow

[desert plaza]

uh huh

alr

[tender river]

no

i like the name reactos

[sage crag]

i dont like the idea though

[tender river]

millenium is too edgy nobody would call their os that

[fast pagoda]

what about

haiku

[tender river]

[desert plaza]

AbleOS (exe edition)

[sage crag]

haikunix mhm

[sage crag]

ableos executable format is called axe

[tender river]

wouldnt it be (pe edition)

[sage crag]

[desert plaza]

would be confused with minecraft

[tender river]

perfect

[fast pagoda]

i think honestly

the company behind minecraft

[sage crag]

someone send bnub

[fast pagoda]

and the company behind pe edition

they should join

into one

[sage crag]

ye

[tender river]

bnub

[sage crag]

-#

[tender river]

nub compendium

[sage crag]

there are probably more nubs but i dont want to get muted for cataloguing them all

[sage crag]

can you run du -b $(which pwsh)

[fast pagoda]

it's 7

[sage crag]

why does that work

[fast pagoda]

more posix sht seems to work than not

more so than the windows related anything

[sage crag]

im more surprised the bash shell subsitution syntax was the same

du and which are both coreutils which are shell independant

[fast pagoda]

im pretty sure even on windows with the newer ones they have as much of that sort of syntax supported as possible now

[tender river]

even fish caved in and started supporting $()

[sage crag]

i forgot they did that

i use $() automatically

[tender river]

but it doesnt split it with spaces by default i think?

[sage crag]

uwaa

[fast pagoda]

im swapping from zsh to pwsh

[sage crag]

why

[fast pagoda]

to upset jesus and bill gates

[sage crag]

also benchmark it

zsh is like the slowest shell ever

[tender river]

erf

cooking time

[sage crag]

erf

hblang repl is probably faster than zsh

[tender river]

is there a hblang repl

[rigid snow]

what is the fastest shell ever

[tender river]

/bin/sh is up there

[maiden geyser]

how does one measure performance of a shell

[fast pagoda]

hyperfine

or just time exec

[midnight sigil]

does emotes work on markdown title tags

[sage crag]

hblang program that passes your code to the compiler and then executes it using function ptr

[midnight sigil]

it's smaller than the usual nub

with #

[tender river]

mhm using the dynamic linker i wrote

[sage crag]

surely you mean ##

or can we use # now

[midnight sigil]

yes

[tender river]

no

ok

yes

[midnight sigil]

[sage crag]

[sage crag]

i rewrote the petal package lisp

[midnight sigil]

I static link the entire winapi to my executable

[tender river]

half of winapi is just calls into kernel32.dll

[opaque sigil]

guess bash wins huh

i say that but this is useless since zsh is the only one that actually source things

[tender river]

this is blatant disinformation, this can't possibly be true as fish is 🚀 blazingly fast and 🔥 written in rust

must be the old c++ parts

[fast pagoda]

lol

[opaque sigil]

true

[brisk laurel]

But would that governments thinking on making their own

[midnight sigil]

rust

[tender river]

no hkts

[midnight sigil]

it has to the rusts contaminating c++ parts and making them rusty

[fast pagoda]

that's true that's a huge bottlenek

[midnight sigil]

my c++ can never be slow

[tender river]

half of c++ code relies on dynamic dispatch and vtables

[fast pagoda]

but 1/3 of the name of it is C

[tender river]

and thats kinda a good thing, dynamic dispatch in c++ has much better ergonomics than in rust

but its also obviously slower

[midnight sigil]

:neuroTrue:

it's plus plus version of C

[fast pagoda]

i somehow didnt realize android's default shell is mksh

[sage crag]

try against sh and dash

[opaque sigil]

sh is just bash isn't it

[sage crag]

no

[fast pagoda]

no

[sage crag]

also run it on this
https://github.com/reubeno/brush

[opaque sigil]

i'm pretty sure it usually is

[sage crag]

🦀 🚀

[sage crag]

which sh

[midnight sigil]

they say it in the icon

[midnight sigil]

rust is crab

[sage crag]

your system is funny

[sage crag]

its the same here too though

[midnight sigil]

[sage crag]

readlink

sh on your machine is probably a symlink to bash

[opaque sigil]

If /bin/sh is not the POSIX compatible shell command itself, it must be a hard or symbolic link to the real shell command.
as per fhs, guess it doesn't have to be a symlink

usually is tho

[sage crag]

try readlink on /bin/sh

[fast pagoda]

i installed that brush and boy does it dislike it

crashed out to bash and died

[sage crag]

"bash compatible"

[opaque sigil]

same thing, they're all symlinks into /usr/bin/bash

[sage crag]

interesting

may as well replace it with dash

[fast pagoda]

zsh isnt that slow compared to what i was expecting

[opaque sigil]

zsh is perfectly fine as long as you don't use oh-my-zsh

[fast pagoda]

p10k lol

[sage crag]

zsh is slow in terms of latency mostly, and usually close to bash unless you have a million plugins

problem with zsh is it needs a million plugins to be better than fish

[midnight sigil]

nyae

[sage crag]

[midnight sigil]

your system is a catgirl

[sage crag]

arent they all

[fast pagoda]

i think at some point i accidentally blasted starship into here somewhere

but im not really sure what if anything stuck

so

it doesnt seem like it but i do remember installing starship and then it was just kinda gone

[opaque sigil]

clean nixos container (don't ask me about brush idk what happened there)

[sage crag]

lmao

did they ship a debug build

[fast pagoda]

it doesnt work for me at all

[opaque sigil]

idk it opens instantly for me

[sage crag]

also i refuse to believe bash did anything faster than bash

[opaque sigil]

probably some weird hyperfine interaction

[sage crag]

probably

[opaque sigil]

should probably add an exit but i'm lazy

[sage crag]

prepare for hbsh

the fastest and smallest posix compliant shell (written in hblang)

coming later rather than sooner

[desert plaza]

[sage crag]

pair with holeyutils (gnu coreutils rewrite) for the highest number of segfaults per program compared to any popular shell

[sage crag]

its pretty clear here that sh and bash are the same program

[tender river]

thats pretty normal, sh links to bash which detects that argv0 is sh and enters a posix compatibility mode

[fast pagoda]

as far as i am aware theyre not the same but bash is literally like

sh + extensions

[sage crag]

[fast pagoda]

it's liek vi vs vim but even more similar

[sage crag]

i see, makes sense

i always nuke sh and replace it with dash anyway

[tender river]

bash has lots of extensions lol

[fast pagoda]

so sure then it's basically a vi vs vim sort of deal

[midnight sigil]

I'm calling awa shell ash

[tender river]

ash exists already

[midnight sigil]

oh nuu copyright

awsh

[tender river]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almquist_shell

[fast pagoda]

also known as sh

[sage crag]

shortest run for dash was 0.1ms, longest was 2ms

[fast pagoda]

illegal

[sage crag]

thats a pretty big range

[fast pagoda]

i gave them warmup

[sage crag]

exists

[midnight sigil]

nuuu

[sage crag]

also exists

[ivory plinth]

-# lurking programming has been a..
-# ..interesting experience...

[tender river]

https://www.nushell.sh/

[midnight sigil]

awash sounds bad

[sage crag]

wash

a wash

[midnight sigil]

wash

[fast pagoda]

also it complains if anything is with 5ms saying that's teh shortest interval it can say is significant

so 0.1-2 is a crapshoot according to hyperfine

[tender river]

i tried zsh once and the autocompletion experience was worse than fish so i went back to fish

but i liked p10k or whatever itsc alled

so i configured fish to look like that

fish and zsh look almost equivalent on my machine

[sage crag]

try perf stat -r 100 dash -c "whatever this was"

[sage crag]

i always liked the look of the right prompt but it always annoyed me whenever i used it

bwa

[fast pagoda]

bash

[sage crag]

why did you

[fast pagoda]

it's just shitting out command not found 100 times

for both

[sage crag]

why did you copy the exact

[opaque sigil]

[sage crag]

[fast pagoda]

i copied literally what was in your ``

lol

[desert plaza]

can i find a real posix spec that is real and reliable

[sage crag]

uhh

test against dash

if fail, ur bad

[fast pagoda]

i aint gonna try to figure out wtf you want me to run if it's not within the quote

[sage crag]

the

same as previous

[midnight sigil]

https://tenor.com/view/kittisaurus-creamheroes-cat-lulu-gif-18634959

[sage crag]

nya

[midnight sigil]

I smell smelly

[fast pagoda]

so you want me to run the counting up to 10000 is what you're saying lmao

why did you put all that in the quotes then god dammit >_>

the block anyways

it's just runnign this over and over

and

[opaque sigil]

don't just blindly copy and run commands sent here

[fast pagoda]

well i knew it wasnt gonna be a nuke either i thought they literally wanted me to see how fast it would just error lol

[sage crag]

did you do the whole hyperfine command in the perf stat

[fast pagoda]

yep lmfao

which i knew it was going to do that

but also

if it's just doing it over and over

it's like

a million runs

[sage crag]

why did you

bwa

[fast pagoda]

why not

all it does it cause it to take forever and i've got all day

and also any few subsequent runs inside the giant group

would be a decend gauge

[sage crag]

[fast pagoda]

now what i didnt mean to do is post the entire fking two shells but the only thing goin on on that right side was brush exploding the second i installed it

but yeah ive now run this comparison like

400-000 00409809823049 times

[sage crag]

[fast pagoda]

and i can happily say

dash is consistently at about 500-700 microseconds

everything else is is miliseconds

so

wait is that micro

i cant fking remember

[sage crag]

yes

[fast pagoda]

i also havent slept in 48 hours at least so cut me some slack here

[sage crag]

you should bench it on something more computationally intensive like creating tempfiles, piping data, and creating subshells

[fast pagoda]

yeah but then i have to actually think about a command

urgghh

[sage crag]

[tender river]

what were the annoyances? copying is the only one i can think of but thats a problem with special prompt characters in general

[fast pagoda]

64m and 1m thru a pipe to dev/null

[sage crag]

shell resizing and text justification

[midnight sigil]

sudo rm -rf /* --no-preserve-root will put a little neuro figurine on your linux desktop, supporting most mainstream desktop environments

[sage crag]

also missing out on prompt width

[tender river]

m yeah i dont resize my shell like at all

interestingly it seems to work fine

maybe its just something https://github.com/IlanCosman/tide does well

[sage crag]

likely there is some shell integration going on

awa

[fast pagoda]

creating subshells

[desert plaza]

funny how that command doesn't get automodded

[fast pagoda]

,more pipe sht

making temp dir w/ a file in there

[sage crag]

i=0
while [ "$i" -lt 1000 ]; do
    (
        tmpfile=$(mktemp) || exit 1
        printf 'erferferferferferferferf\n' > "$tmpfile"
        cat "$tmpfile"
        rm -f "$tmpfile"
    ) &
    i=$((i + 1))
done

wait

bad benchmark

[fast pagoda]

lol

[sage crag]

maybe that is a more realistic workload though

[midnight sigil]

fair since rm rf root is not addicting 👍

people mostly quit after trying the first time

[desert plaza]

[fast pagoda]

4kb payload for that

[fast pagoda]

i opened foot

couldnt do anything

uninstalled it

[midnight sigil]

[fast pagoda]

i read root as foot

which is a terminal

was one of the ones that came as recommended for wayland

[midnight sigil]

[fast pagoda]

hella broke btw

[desert plaza]

foot doesn't have tabs smh

why did i install this

[fast pagoda]

honestly i get mad if i see a tab instead of a split

[tender river]

terminal emulators arent suppoed to have tabs or splits smh

thats the window manager's job

awa

[desert plaza]

but i'm on gnome

[tender river]

gnome has a window manager

[desert plaza]

not tiling

[fast pagoda]

kill mutter

[sage crag]

i=0
while [ "$i" -lt 1000 ]; do
    (
        tmpfile=$(mktemp) || exit 1

        text="line one"
        text="$text
line two"
        text="$text
line three"

        printf '%s\n' "$text" >"$tmpfile"
        printf 'footer\n' >>"$tmpfile"

        while IFS= read -r line; do
            case "$line" in
            line*) : ;;
            extra*) : ;;
            esac
        done <"$tmpfile"

        echo "done" >>"$tmpfile"
        cat "$tmpfile" >/dev/null
        rm -f "$tmpfile"
    ) &
    i=$((i + 1))
done

wait

[tender river]

on the other hand i think text editors should have native tabs and splits

because it allows sharing state and lsp instances

[fast pagoda]

i'm currently running

hyperfine -w 5 -r 15 -L sh bash,dash,zsh $HF_OUT \ '{sh} -c '\''for i in $(seq 1 200); do ( for j in $(seq 1 50); do v=$(( (i * j) % 97 )); s="$(printf "%${v}d" "$v" | tr " " X)"; : "$(echo "$(echo "$s" | tr X Y)" | tr Y Z)"; done ) & done; wait'\''' and it's killing my entire system

which is expected kinda but

[sage crag]

100 runs:

dash:
0.148553 +- 0.000672 seconds time elapsed ( +- 0.45% )

bash:
0.226595 +- 0.000578 seconds time elapsed ( +- 0.26% )

zsh:
0.224411 +- 0.000400 seconds time elapsed ( +- 0.18% )

which means on average dash is about 1.6x faster than bash or zsh at this workload on my machine

[fast pagoda]

i feel like it'd be a dark day living in hell where i would be running anything like this

[sage crag]

i ran it for brush but its still running

[fast pagoda]

it's been ~2mins and dash just finished still waiting for zsh kek

[sage crag]

and apparently thats because brush takes 1.38 secs per iteration

which is about 10x slower than dash

[tender river]

blazingly fast

[sage crag]

rust

mhm

[opaque sigil]

i wonder if it's because it wasn't started in a shell

[fast pagoda]

Summary
  dash -c 'for i in $(seq 1 200); do ( for j in $(seq 1 50); do v=$(( (i * j) % 97 )); s="$(printf "%${v}d" "$v" | tr " " X)"; : "$(echo "$(echo "$s" | tr X Y)" | tr Y Z)"; done ) & done; wait' ran
    1.26 ± 0.04 times faster than bash -c 'for i in $(seq 1 200); do ( for j in $(seq 1 50); do v=$(( (i * j) % 97 )); s="$(printf "%${v}d" "$v" | tr " " X)"; : "$(echo "$(echo "$s" | tr X Y)" | tr Y Z)"; done ) & done; wait'
    1.28 ± 0.06 times faster than zsh -c 'for i in $(seq 1 200); do ( for j in $(seq 1 50); do v=$(( (i * j) % 97 )); s="$(printf "%${v}d" "$v" | tr " " X)"; : "$(echo "$(echo "$s" | tr X Y)" | tr Y Z)"; done ) & done; wait'
░▒▓ ~/shellbench/bench_tmp │ master ▓▒░                                                        ░▒▓ ✔ │ 4m 40s │ ≡ │ 10:12:02 AM ▓▒░

[sage crag]

for me every one was run with perf stat -r 100 ${shell} pointless.sh

which is this file

[opaque sigil]

okay nvm idk

[somber vine]

hi

[sage crag]

; v1
(
  (package "example"
    :version "0.0.0" ; non-optional.
    :repository "aaasdasd" ; fluff
    :description "aaa" ; fluff
    :authors ("you") ; fluff.
    :tags ("a" "b" "c") ; fluff.
    :license ("aaa", "MIT") ; can be multiple
  )
)

; v2
(
  :package ("petal" "0.1.0" ; these two are required
      ; everything in here is optional
      :site "aaasdasd"
      :about "aaa"
      :author "you" ; can be mulitple
      :license ("aaa", "MIT") ; can be multiple
  )
)

when i started rewriting this i realised that i dont have to make a standard lisp, it just needs to be easy to parse

[opaque sigil]

at least put ```

[sage crag]

```

[opaque sigil]

```python
```

[fast pagoda]

aawagga

[tender river]

true, though the former looks cleaner imo; it also depends on whether a file is supposed to have more than just a package definition

[sage crag]

the only case where a file would have more than 1 definition would be where external packages are defined

thinking about it, i also prefer the bracket because its slightly less clutter

[tender river]

and you said they could be removed, so the former style without the outer () would look the cleanest imo

[sage crag]

(package "petal" "0.1.0" ; these two are required
  ; everything in here is optional
  :site "aaasdasd"
  :about "aaa"
  :author "you" ; can be mulitple
  :license ("aaa", "MIT") ; can be multiple
)

(external
    (somelib "https://example.org/somelib.git"
        ; :include "somelib.lisp" ; prevent clogging up external definitions
        ; :git (:branch "asdf") ; latest of asdf branch
        :git "abcdefgh" ; arbitrary
        :hash "123456789ABCDEF" ; required if commit unspecified.

        ; platform overrides
        :platforms (
            (:os "linux" :arch (:any, :exclude "arm64") :include "somelib-linux.lisp")
        )
        :src (
            :lib "$repo/src/lib.hb" ; lib mapping
            :root "$repo/main.hb" ; unused for library
        )
    )
)

here is how i have external dependencies at the moment

[tender river]

maybe also add package file format version somewhere for easier breaking changes (even if you dont add support for loading old versions its nice to have the possibility to add it)

[sage crag]

i could also just put the package definition stuff in the top level

[uneven pulsar]

user@Users-MacBook-Air jarvis % source /Users/user/Desktop/jarvis/.venv/bin/activate
(.venv) user@Users-MacBook-Air jarvis % /Users/user/Desktop/jarvis/.venv/bin/python /Users/user/Desktop/jarvis/bot.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/Users/user/Desktop/jarvis/bot.py", line 19, in <module>
    openai_client = OpenAI(api_key=OPENAI_API_KEY)
  File "/Users/user/Desktop/jarvis/.venv/lib/python3.8/site-packages/openai/_client.py", line 130, in __init__
    raise OpenAIError(
openai.OpenAIError: The api_key client option must be set either by passing api_key to the client or by setting the OPENAI_API_KEY environment variable
(.venv) user@Users-MacBook-Air jarvis %                                         
i keep getting this stupid error

[tender river]

hm node.js only specifies the lockfile version but not package.json version

[tender river]

rust does the same i think

[uneven pulsar]

bruh i didn't enter the key how dose it not pass to it

[sage crag]

since its unlikely that i will use any lockfiles it probably makes more sense to include the format version in the file

[uneven pulsar]

help

[fast pagoda]

it's saying there's no key

you need to set an api key in an env variable

[sage crag]

if i put the depends, src and external sections inside package, then it would be possible to define multiple packages per file

[uneven pulsar]

in the evn file?

[sage crag]

not sure if i want to encourage that though

[uneven pulsar]

wait.......OOOOoooooooH FUCK

[fast pagoda]

either in env or as a set key command in ur shell for that session

[uneven pulsar]

i have a. .env file do i put THE API KEY IN IT?

[fast pagoda]

yes

it can get the key like a lot of ways

you could put it in your bashrc etc if mac has that (dont know)
put it in your PATH
set it in the terminal

put it in the .env

all of those

it just needs one(1)

[tender river]

you could force an indirection through an uri, many package managers require a separate manifest per package anyway

also erm note that sometimes packages are in private repos that require ssh keys to access

[fast pagoda]

i hate when a build list makes me accept a key

bruh i dont want ur spooky key in my keyring who are u

[sage crag]

hrm

[sage crag]

not my problem, user problem

[midnight sigil]

https://tenor.com/view/allianz-direct-key-swinging-car-keys-gif-17689328

[sage crag]

if im specifying 1 package per manifest then maybe it does make sense to put the package definition in the top levle

[fast pagoda]

this mf popping up to taunt me when pipewire is again being ornery

[uneven pulsar]

LESSSSS GOOOOOOOO ITS FUCKING WORKING ill but more tokens lol

YEAHHHHHHHHH

[uneven pulsar]

it was for a test

but its working lol

an ai discord bot

ill prolly use gemini

[uneven pulsar]

what?

[fast pagoda]

live demis reaction

[uneven pulsar]

what ai do i use then😭

[fast pagoda]

your own
built in a cave

with a box of scraps

[uneven pulsar]

i am poor for rtx

[rare bramble]

use a markov chain

[fast pagoda]

subreddit simulator used to blow my mind

with their lil markov models

[rare bramble]

I visited it a couple of times, theres some WILD posts in there

[fast pagoda]

they were so good loll

uncanny

[small anvil]

you got this you will be the next tony stark trust me

[midnight sigil]

markov chain mentions

[small anvil]

"nah twin"

[midnight sigil]

this should be in the bingo

[uneven pulsar]

lets hope so

i named it jarvis

[midnight sigil]

I think I was so into markov chain in the 2024s

[fast pagoda]

the 2024s

[midnight sigil]

even tried to do multimodality

[midnight sigil]

yuh

it's almost 2026

[uneven pulsar]

i have my own jarvis bot

[midnight sigil]

man what happened to 2019~2024

why are the years gone in a blink

[small anvil]

crazy to think that it only felt like 3 months has passed even though it’s more than that

imo

[uneven pulsar]

sadly me poor for token

[midnight sigil]

"jarvis, remove my heart"

[midnight sigil]

real

[uneven pulsar]

i wish if i can show it but only works in my server

and i ran out of tokens

[midnight sigil]

like, what did I do in those years

seems nothing

I don't even recall the blender stuff I made

brain fog is real

[midnight sigil]

buy more

[fast pagoda]

idk why but openai just gives me so many credits

[stray dragon]

https://tenor.com/view/jarvis-jarvis-argument-jarvis-ignore-jarvis-send-me-jarvis-coordinates-gif-22689969

[fast pagoda]

like

[midnight sigil]

expired

[fast pagoda]

$5 of them did

the rest are either still available or have been used

i still have at minimum $50 and ive burnt the rest on stuff

[midnight sigil]

github copilot give me completely free gpt 4 access

[fast pagoda]

gpt 4 causes me to have diarrhea

[rigid snow]

[midnight sigil]

[fast pagoda]

ythat's probably why they give me credits

to keep me quiet about the gpt4 induced shitting

too bad , it's out there now

[midnight sigil]

will we be having gpt6 before gta6

[fast pagoda]

gpt 8 before tes 6

[midnight sigil]

[tender river]

rewrite rm in hblang

call it erm

[uneven pulsar]

bruh i didnt even yet use my grok credits and still saying expired😭

now at least its working just need tokens😭

[fast pagoda]

use free apis from https://openrouter.ai/ ?

[uneven pulsar]

no i want to plug it in my discord bot

but it said i tried to use grok

[fast pagoda]

openrouter uses OpenAI compatible API

[uneven pulsar]

i just

[fast pagoda]

i mean you might have to change liek 2 things

[uneven pulsar]

?

[sage crag]

erm /

[tender river]

rf implied

[sage crag]

yes

--preserve-root will be a flag

[tender river]

theres apparently a -d flag to GNU rm that allows it to act as rmdir

[sage crag]

have to rewrite coreutils

[opaque sigil]

who needs rmdir when you can just use rm -rf for everything

(i do)

[sage crag]

this is what i do

ls dir
rm -rf dir

[tender river]

i like rmdir * and letting it fail on nonempty dirs

[sage crag]

i do not trust it

[fast pagoda]

spawn a window that calls gpt5 who then agentically downloads gtrash from freedesktop.org and puts everything in that dir into the trash can

[sage crag]

[tender river]

nix is from nix

mhm

[fast pagoda]

gnu is not unix

[uneven pulsar]

but its in an env so i download gtrash?

[fast pagoda]

please ddo not do what i desribed there

thwt was extreme sarasm

[sage crag]

i dont think i like the bright red cursor

[uneven pulsar]

???

[sage crag]

[uneven pulsar]

dude i am just asking

bruh ill just try gemini

[sage crag]

excuse me

[tender river]

wait is fish cursor not | by default

is that a vi mode thing

[uneven pulsar]

since google offer ai for educational puposes

[fast pagoda]

no i mean like the thing about gtrash was unrelated to what you were talking about and also would do nothing to help you

[uneven pulsar]

oh

[midnight sigil]

just //undo if something unexpected happens

[uneven pulsar]

yknow ill just try gemini

bye

[tender river]

mrp nyaa

[sage crag]

meow

[midnight sigil]

smh stop vibing

[uneven pulsar]

what?

[midnight sigil]

too many vibes

[uneven pulsar]

no

[uneven pulsar]

USE GEMINI API

[sage crag]

this is my config

[uneven pulsar]

I AM NOT VIBE CODING

[sage crag]

erm the linux-cgroup one is not supposed to be there

[uneven pulsar]

https://tenor.com/view/sealyx-naked-gun-the-naked-gun-facepalm-facepalm-meme-gif-11743768702765397589

[tender river]

its harder to get rid of the muscle memory to type vim to edit a file than it is to get rid of vim muscle memory

[sage crag]

🧐

i use micro

[tender river]

i know about it

[uneven pulsar]

@midnight sigil i am not vive coding

[sage crag]

modeless editor, nano's big sister

[uneven pulsar]

I RAN OUT OF API TOKEN SILLY

NOOOOO

[tender river]

if i wanted a modeless editor i'd try emacs but i value my pinky finger

[sage crag]

i never want to touch emacs

[midnight sigil]

tomorrow night burns

[sage crag]

i have more than enough random garbage as it is

[midnight sigil]

:O

[sage crag]

yes i like this colourscheme

[olive sable]

[fast pagoda]

based micro enjoyer

[tender river]

i dont like mod keys, even helix relies on them too much for my liking

[uneven pulsar]

bro I AM NOT VIBE CODING YOU IDIOT

[sage crag]

it has inbuilt support for splits but i never use them

also tabs, but i use them sparsely

[uneven pulsar]

i am trying to use a ai api for my discord bot

thats what i am doing

[fast pagoda]

nano is all you need

and micro is fine too

[sage crag]

nano is old

i dont have it on my machine

[uneven pulsar]

nano?

[rigid snow]

pico

[sage crag]

i also dont have n?vim? on my machine

[rigid snow]

nvi mhm

[fast pagoda]

i have vim to prettend like im totally gonna learn it

never do

[sage crag]

regex is hard

[rigid snow]

[sage crag]

(?nvim|vi) is less appealing

what is that question mark

dont question it just assume its correct

[rigid snow]

anyways use pico

[opaque wharf]

I have awoken from my slumber, and ready to watch Evil

[sage crag]

no

[sick owl]

Why is Qwen on some quasi religious shit

[sage crag]

use ed

[opaque wharf]

[tender river]

micro's written in go

why am i not surpried

[sick owl]

I just asked for a quick poem as a test and it said this

[sage crag]

i hate the llm It's not just A—it's B

[fast pagoda]

least dramatic sycophant

[sick owl]

🤝

[sage crag]

this is my second biggest complaint about it unironically

it uses go style regex which sucks

[fast pagoda]

do what i do which is explicitly give them a style prompt that makes them kind of an asshole

[sage crag]

It's not It's not just A—it's B—it's an asinine phrase that wants to make me douse your machine in water

[tender river]

i was half expecting for it to suggest vibe coding

[sage crag]

that fumo is very well rotoscoped

[tender river]

[sick owl]

HOLY

Why was Brave capping my speeds at 50 tokens per second

[fast pagoda]

it's not just an asinine phrase - it's an overdramatization of mundane shit

[sick owl]

I switched to edge and got this on GPT oss

[sage crag]

huggingface smile emoji

[sick owl]

Wtf

[sage crag]

awa

[rigid snow]

interestingly i have no idea what you're talking about

[tender river]

[fast pagoda]

huggingfaec inference autoscales

make sure it didnt just drop you into a thiccer machine

[rigid snow]

is hugging face inference web scale tho

[fast pagoda]

yes

[sage crag]

mmmicro

[fast pagoda]

it will just scale the mahine the model is on automatially

[sage crag]

by the way this editor is on life support

[tender river]

autosu

[fast pagoda]

WHY is my c key being shit

[opaque wharf]

But konii, pure water is non conductive

[fast pagoda]

i wash my motherboards in the dishwasher

[sage crag]

it wont be pure for long

i will tell you that

[tender river]

[sage crag]

yes

exactly

vi mode has been an upcoming feature for years

i dont think anyone works on it anymore

i should write a better version in hblang

[fast pagoda]

yea cuz it'd fill the editor with a bunch of hocus pocus mumbo jumbo

[rigid snow]

i'm going to come in and salt it right when you spill it out

[opaque wharf]

eof newline

Let's make erf newline

[sage crag]

erfnewline

here is my
file
it has lines
:erf:

[rigid snow]

end rf file

[opaque wharf]

Wait, what is konii colorscheme?

[tender river]

navigation/selection using ctrl/shift + arrow keys makes me scream internally

[fast pagoda]

they made it earlier

[sage crag]

i dont know how it actually looks

[rigid snow]

looks like a telegram theme i made 8 years ago

[sage crag]

its just various shades of red

since its 16-colour

[tender river]

its like alt tab on windows, i can use it but it feels like the stone age

[opaque wharf]

Do limegreen and be l33t

[sage crag]

no

[rigid snow]

ctrl+arrow is for switching desktops/fullscreen apps on macos, is that better or worse

[tender river]

i'd probably like it more because of the predictable order

[limpid timber]

anyone interested in desktop fps?

[tender river]

erm, #gaming ?

[rigid snow]

"my wm runs at 1000fps"

[limpid timber]

no. like a code that shows ur current fps/gpu/cpu/lat.

[fast pagoda]

    "comment brightblack",
    "constant red",
    "identifier cyan",
    "statement yellow",
    "symbol yellow",
    "preproc magenta",
    "type green",
    "special magenta",
    "ignore default",
    "error brightred",
    "todo brightyellow",
    "hlsearch black,yellow",
    "statusline brightblack",
    "indent-char black",
    "line-number brightblack",
    "current-line-number red",
    "diff-added green",
    "diff-modified yellow",
    "diff-deleted red",
    "gutter-error red",
    "gutter-warning red",
    "color-column white",
    "symbol.brackets default",
    "preproc.shebang comment",
    "match-brace magenta",
    "tab-error brightred",
    "trailingws brightred"
]```

fuk

[limpid timber]

in every application

[fast pagoda]

why did this onvert it

i hate my c key

[limpid timber]

its just there in the corner.

[fast pagoda]

Element,Hex Color(s)
comment,#808080
constant,#800000
identifier,#008080
statement,#808000
symbol,#808000
preproc,#800080
type,#008000
special,#800080
ignore,#c0c0c0
error,#ff0000
todo,#ffff00
hlsearch,"#000000, #808000"
statusline,#808080
indent-char,#000000
line-number,#808080
current-line-number,#800000
diff-added,#008000
diff-modified,#808000
diff-deleted,#800000
gutter-error,#800000
gutter-warning,#800000
color-column,#c0c0c0
symbol.brackets,#c0c0c0
preproc.shebang,
match-brace,#800080
tab-error,#ff0000
trailingws,#ff0000

[tender river]

but the advantage of vi keybinds is that almost every editor supports them

[fast pagoda]

jesus

[sage crag]

i should write the package file in hblang

[limpid timber]

not needing in game fps shown in game.

[sage crag]

yeh

[tender river]

so i think i could stomach using something like vscode

as long as it supported proper navigation (not arrow keys)

[rigid snow]

discord should add <details>

[opaque wharf]

Most likely not

Everyone here is most likely know how to do that already

[rigid snow]

i don't want to know my fps

mental overhead

[fast pagoda]

any fps overlay works on desktop as well

[limpid timber]

dang.

[fast pagoda]

usually if you;re running variable refresh its just gonna be ur monitor's refresh rate

[tender river]

maybe i should buy foot pedals and learn emacs

[fast pagoda]

This monitor is 165 hhz and the other one is limited to 240 so it's the max shown

Wew lad

[tender river]

unironically emacs relying on modifier keys so much is the only reason i havent tried it

[limpid timber]

das insanely cool. man i should learn

[fast pagoda]

i never ran into vi or vim keybinds in my life until i got into using linux

[rigid snow]

solution: midi keyboard

[fast pagoda]

if you're on windows at least with nvidia you can just have the geforce experience or w/e the app now

just have that show ur fps at all times

[sick owl]

Test question

Answer

I think I kind of hate Qwen actually

[limpid timber]

thank u.

[fast pagoda]

np just look for the overlay settings (i dont have the app cuz no windows to check)

[limpid timber]

same. im sleeping.

[opaque sigil]

i don't think the nvidia overlay shows fps

[fast pagoda]

gipetee 5 says wear shoes in the spooky bathroom but understood the reflection at least

[opaque sigil]

mine doesn't at least

[fast pagoda]

it does if you ask it too

it's not default

[sick owl]

GPT 5 got it right

[opaque sigil]

*on the desktop

[fast pagoda]

yup

[sick owl]

It also isn't aggravatingly filled with gptisms ironically

Qwen is the new GPTslop king

[sage crag]

hm im wondering whether it makes sense to restrict package sources to be git repos and then dump versions entirely and just rely on commits

[tender river]

you could use git tags

[sage crag]

git tags

[fast pagoda]

not by default but you can onfigure it to be always on

FUKING keyboard fccccccc

[opaque sigil]

i meant this, the N/A

don't mind the god awful contrast

[fast pagoda]

you must have literally 0 3d going on to have it show that

does it show a count if you do like

window tab

[opaque sigil]

no

[sage crag]

but in that case, all of the license, about, site, etc could be provided by the git repo

which means half of the file would be unnecessary

[opaque sigil]

it only shows the fps in games for me

and other graphics intensive apps ig

[sage crag]

also, it would make debugging using local files really hard

bwa

[fast pagoda]

time to bust out the old fraps then

[tender river]

theres also transitive dependencies

[sage crag]

aaaaaaaa

i hate computers

[fast pagoda]

it must've changed because for me last time i had it on which was admittedly well before the thing became nvidia app and not geforce experience or w/e

it just kinda stayed at the monitor refresh rate