programming

[tender river]

but also no

rrrrrr windows just refuses to update i'm nuking it

[sage crag]

to use an external c library, you would do this

// main.hb
sdl_init := fn(flags: u32): i32 @import("SDL_Init")
sdl_create_window := fn(name: ^u8, x: u32, y: u32, w: u32, h: u32, flags: u32): ^SdlWindow @import("SDL_CreateWindwo")

SdlWindow := struct {
  // whatever an sdl window is
}

$sdl_init_everything: u32 = 0 // probably not, idfk. i love random constants.

main := fn(): i32 {
  if sdl_init(sdl_init_everything) != 0 {
    die
  }
  win: ^SdlWindow = sdl_create_window("GAME\0", 0, 0, 100, 100, 0)
  loop {}
  return 0;
}

hbc main.hb --optimizations release --target x86_64-linux > main.o
zig cc main.o -lSDL2.0 -o main

and this would be how you use external c libraries

[opaque wharf]

You have windows installation?

This is big news

[tender river]

on my old laptop

but i need windows so i'll have to reinstall it

this pc also has arch but i dont need it so it gets nuked too

[opaque wharf]

Office stuff?

[tender river]

no

[patent walrus]

IOT LTSC?

[tender river]

of course

[sage crag]

in reality we can just make bindings for a c websocket library

on x86 at least

[tender river]

boooring

[sage crag]

indeed

no fun if we cant also let nuro integration run on ableos

[opaque wharf]

Just make the tcp/ip implementation on lily already

[tender river]

i dont think thats gonna be part of lily

[sage crag]

hm

let's see

[opaque wharf]

Stdlib will not do networking?

[sage crag]

stdlib doing networking is kinda overreaching in my opinion

[tender river]

tcp is not something thats done in userspace on every os

you can do it with tap/tun but that requires root to setup the adapter

[opaque wharf]

That's a fair point yeah

[tender river]

most stdlibs have some kind of networkings... but that usually doesnt involve a full blown tcp stack

[sage crag]

yes

this is true

tcp/ip will likely be a userspace driver on ableos

[tender river]

networkings

[tender river]

so a driver that apps ipc with?

[sage crag]

likely

cant think of any other way that it would be done immediately speaking

[olive sable]

can i print stuff?

[sage crag]

see this is where you give up and use a library

either lily or import printf

[tender river]

you can use hblsp's util.hb too

[opaque wharf]

Why does it sounds cursed

[sage crag]

what do you want to print

[sage crag]

its just the same as the kernel handling tcp/ip

[tender river]

a printer testing page

[opaque wharf]

A4 pdf document

[dull pendant]

hey uuh i have a question, i want to learn to program but idk what language i should learn. does anyone have any indications or anything

i learned the very basics of javascript a while back

[sage crag]

opens an ipc channel, new thread spawned, service and tcp worker talk through the channel

[dull pendant]

i forgot almost all of it tho

[opaque wharf]

But somehow doing it in userspace feels wrong

[tender river]

its normal in microkernels

[sage crag]

microkernel awa

[opaque wharf]

AbleOS will be a microkernel,m

[olive sable]

preferably varibales?

[opaque wharf]

?

[sage crag]

it is a microkernel

[sage crag]

yesh you are screwed unless you use lily or import printf then

[tender river]

lily 0.2 doesnt support printing in its current branch btw

[olive sable]

how do i get lily?

[opaque wharf]

Depends on what you want to do

[tender river]

and lily 0.1 has an outdated build script/compiler commit

[olive sable]

[sage crag]

i suggest just importing printf at the moment

lily is going through an angsty teenage phase

[tender river]

you can use https://git.ablecorp.eu/chayleaf/hblsp 's util.hb

[opaque wharf]

Web dev will be very different than what these people are currently doing for example

[tender river]

but it probably uses lily

[sage crag]

awa

[olive sable]

im just gonna steal code from chay to learn the syntax

[opaque wharf]

You will love the bracket

[tender river]

just clone the repo with submodules and you will be able to use it as-is

[sage crag]

if you dont call the formatter it wont fix his code

[olive sable]

[sage crag]

printf_one := fn(fmt_str: ^u8, x: @Any()): @import("printf")

main := fn(): i32 {
  printf_one("%ul\0".ptr, @as(u32, 1))
  return 0
}

something like this

[tender river]

".ptr

[sage crag]

you are correct

abwabwa

[olive sable]

thanks konii

[sage crag]

well, lmk if it works or breaks

[dull pendant]

it aint really my goal to be a web dev

[opaque wharf]

The trial by fire via Sam cursed fate began

[tender river]

what do you want to program? a rough/abstract idea is fine

[olive sable]

[sage crag]

i forgot a type

printf_one := fn(fmt_str: ^u8, x: @Any()): void @import("printf")

[olive sable]

thanks konii

it works

[sage crag]

did you test if printing something actually works

[dull pendant]

i wanted to work on cybersecurity

[olive sable]

it printed 1

[sage crag]

cool

[tender river]

i recommend C and python in no particular order

[opaque wharf]

Yeah that's normal

[dull pendant]

tyyy

[opaque wharf]

The l is concerning

[olive sable]

oh i ddint even notice

[sage crag]

a little bit

[tender river]

also try ctfs they are are fun little puzzles

[sage crag]

ul is ulong

[opaque wharf]

If it is what I think it is, then it does not do what it should do lol

[sage crag]

not sure why it just took the u

[opaque wharf]

Yep

[dull pendant]

okiii :3

[sage crag]

main := fn(): u32 {
  for x := (1<<32)..(1<<32 + 100) {
    printf_one("%ull\n\0".ptr, x)
  }
}

try this

[opaque wharf]

The cursedness has begun

[sage crag]

eh

[tender river]

its probably %lu

[sage crag]

probably

[opaque wharf]

Also, why do you explicitly state \0 at the end?

[tender river]

type comes last

and %u is the type for unsigned int

[sage crag]

hblang strings arent null terminated

they are slices

[tender river]

l is width specifier that says its a long

[olive sable]

first it compalined about no return so i added return 0.
now it just doesnt print anything

[sage crag]

yeah it is i double checked

[sage crag]

try changing ull to llu

[olive sable]

nope

[sage crag]

hang on i should test this myself

[tender river]

konii 1 << 32 overflows

[opaque wharf]

[tender river]

hm but it should be uint

[nocturne olive]

I may have just discovered how to use a new feature I trained into NS-B-3.0.1 (the 3090 edition of NS)

[sage crag]

it should be uint

not u32

that's why i did it

[nocturne olive]

That being the breathiness embed

[olive sable]

[tender river]

precedence

[sage crag]

hang on im cloning the compiler

awa

[tender river]

(1 << 32) + 100

not 1 << 32 + 100

[sage crag]

erf

[tender river]

[sage crag]

why is addition tighter binding than binary shift

[olive sable]

i lowered the 32 to 3 for testing and now its flooding my terminal

[sage crag]

you did what

[olive sable]

[sage crag]

ctrl+c

[olive sable]

at least it prints

[olive sable]

i just closed the temrinal lol

[sage crag]

you wont be able to print structs with that by the way

just whatever c can print

[olive sable]

didnt know other languages could print structs

[sage crag]

its a very basic formatting feature

[opaque wharf]

Wait, so @import is a binding to C stdio?

[sage crag]

no

@import is just leaving the symbol undefined and praying the linker gets it

[olive sable]

[opaque wharf]

[sage crag]

that's why you can use it for raylib and sdl and whatnot

[olive sable]

me when opengl

[sage crag]

dont try it

[olive sable]

why not?

[opaque wharf]

On the contrary, do try it

[sage crag]

i dont think you can import constants

you will have to find thgem

[olive sable]

bwaa

[sage crag]

i will check

give me a minute

[olive sable]

no prob

[sage crag]

yeh

[olive sable]

so doing anything opengl related means hours of work just makign the packages work

hmmm

ill pas

[rough bloom]

in theory you should be able to codegen hblang files with the constants

similar to what bindgen does for Rust

but yes, effort

[olive sable]

idk what a codegen is so sure?

[rough bloom]

convert C header file to hblang

[opaque wharf]

Code generation / generator

Generating code

[tender river]

:omr

mhm

[opaque wharf]

C has a well defined grammar. You can have a program to take C file as input and read the AST to then generate a code in other language. Kinda like google translate for programming language

[olive sable]

the opengl headers cant be that long

in theory they should just connect to your gpu drivers which have the actual functions

[sage crag]

nice

works

[olive sable]

[olive sable]

oh is that just how a window looks liek on your os? i was wondering what i was looking at

[sage crag]

no

the window doesnt show up

its just on my taskbar

sdl sucks for this

[olive sable]

ohhh

[sage crag]

it has so many random constants

almost as bad as libc and unistd

[olive sable]

its the preview thingy

[sage crag]

yes

either way, it works

yeah, so, hblang

zig-out/bin/hbc a.hb --target x86_64-linux > a.o
zig cc a.o -lSDL2 -o a

that's how im adding sdl2

[olive sable]

i have skimmed through the 26k lines of code. 99% of it is jsut #define and typedef

[sage crag]

maybe vulkan has less

[olive sable]

surely

the main vulkan.h just checks what platform you're on and then goes to another file apparently

[sage crag]

aha ha

modules in your typedefs

[olive sable]

ye vulkan is also just 26K lines of typedefs

its all in structs tho so less typedefs overall

[sage crag]

so basically, dont do that

use raylib

https://git.ablecorp.eu/mlokis/hblang/src/branch/main/examples/raylib
example

[opaque wharf]

Or do, and enjoy the suffering

[olive sable]

i doubt ill do any major projects in hblang as long as im still working on the game-jam game that had to be release 3 weeks ago

but maybe afterward

[sage crag]

that's funny, i didnt realise the raylib example came with a build.zig

[sage crag]

i dont recommend you do any major projects in hblang full stop at the moment unless you want to write a bunch of stuff from scratch, and deal with painful random bugs and lacking basic stdlib features

[opaque wharf]

Tell the compiler dev to support ARM for embedded dev

[sage crag]

arm is a future goal

its planned

just, no one here has an arm device

and adding arm would be a significant drain on resources without another maintainer

[opaque sigil]

you have a phone

[opaque wharf]

What constitutes as an ARM device? Does raspi count? Or will STM32 do?

[opaque wharf]

True

[sage crag]

best i can do for you is arm64

[opaque wharf]

How many person is working at ablecorp again? 7?

[sage crag]

uhh

depends on the day

like 3 people at any one time

[opaque wharf]

[olive sable]

okay

[sage crag]

there's not as much going on right now because lead dev is in a slump and trying to move countries

yeh

[opaque wharf]

Lead dev?

[sage crag]

the esteemed boss of ablecorp

[olive sable]

Ablecorp

[sage crag]

able

[olive sable]

Ye

[opaque wharf]

Where is cain

[olive sable]

Dead

[sage crag]

that joke has been made a few times

[sage crag]

you can if you want

it would be helpful

and im not gonna stop you of course

but you will suffer

[olive sable]

Yep it would seem that way

[sage crag]

come back to it when ive ported most of the lily functions

i havent really worked on lily as much recently, been doing other things

[olive sable]

Thzts fine, no rush

[sage crag]

general maintenance of life

[opaque wharf]

konii touching grass?

[sage crag]

im a serial grass toucher

[olive sable]

The longer you take, the more time i have before i will need to go into the hellhole of porting stuff to another language

[sage crag]

awa

[olive sable]

Unfortunate typo, lets ignore that

[sage crag]

spending too much time rotting, reading, working, cleaning, taking care of birds, etc

responsibilities

[olive sable]

birds

[sage crag]

sorry i should censor that word

[olive sable]

Every time i try to do anything i always get the voice in my head of "you could be working on the vulkan stuff rn tho "

So thats most of what i do in the day

[sage crag]

train yourself with a reward

"do good thing get nice snack"

[olive sable]

Im not a dog

[sage crag]

good thing the pavlovian response works on all animals more complex than an amoeba

actually im not sure if insects can be pavlov'd

sounds like an interesting read

[olive sable]

Depends on the insect maybe?

[sage crag]

im not sure if insect brains work on the same reward system as mammalian, avian, reptile, or fish brains

insects are very different

its obvious that they have some kind of incentive to eat, rest, reproduce, and run away from big things that want to squash them

so i'd say its possible

[tender river]

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC1885829/

pavlov's cockroach 🎦

[olive sable]

Both bees and cockroaches can apparently

[sage crag]

maybe its unsurprising considering arguably one of the oldest insects already behaves on a similar basis

those being ants

[olive sable]

My main issue is that i just dont have many things i like to the point of pavloving myself

[sage crag]

its easier than that

[olive sable]

Unless they start rewarding me with 3090's

[sage crag]

you may not have some like on that level, but your brain has more basic tendencies

just eat a sugar cube when you do a good job

[olive sable]

Wait so why were we training me for again?

I said im a workaholic and you brought up pavlov

[sage crag]

non-vk productivity

[nocturne olive]

NS, but with breathiness

[rigid snow]

schizo

[sage crag]

r-r-rr-round

[nocturne olive]

"going round, round and round"

[rigid snow]

the line is "round, round and round"

[sage crag]

yup im aware

[olive sable]

145698

[nocturne olive]

Maybe I'll tune more tomorrow
At the moment that 6s clip is the only properly tuned part

[rigid snow]

the wall exists

.

[olive sable]

2365?

Im going of the top of my head here

[rigid snow]

something lik ethat

[sage crag]

i think i have a speech processing disorder

[olive sable]

Congrats! Its a speech processing disorder

[rigid snow]

i think i have speech

[sage crag]

are you sure

when was the last time you said a word

[rigid snow]

i am sure but you wouldn't know

not worth arguing

[opaque wharf]

This is time it is Gigabyte

[sage crag]

i have a gigabyte motherboard but im not watching this video because the thumbnail is boring

[rigid snow]

just now

[sage crag]

wrong

look again

[rigid snow]

look where

[sage crag]

exactly

[opaque wharf]

Well, the secure boot is broken

[rigid snow]

i don't think speech is something you see

[olive sable]

Do laptops count?

[sage crag]

if it

's loud enough

then you will see it

[rigid snow]

i will see the furniture shaking

not my speech

[olive sable]

Like my subwoofer once said, hearing sound is boring, you need to feel the sound

[sage crag]

if you speak loud enough you can cause sonoluminescence

[rigid snow]

no human can

[opaque wharf]

It just says multiple. Check if your motherboard is there
https://www.binarly.io/advisories/brly-2025-009

[sage crag]

have you tried

[opaque wharf]

Quite a list tho

[sage crag]

am i hungry or sick

time will tell

[olive sable]

Ah yes

[rigid snow]

i tried and probably woke up my neighbors, i won't be seeing sonoluminecsence i'll be seeing the police at my door

[sage crag]

mission accomplished

[olive sable]

We do a lil bit of trolling

[sage crag]

awa

[rigid snow]

me when i lie on the internets

[sage crag]

why would you do that

so mean

[rigid snow]

i am mean

[tender river]

win11 reinstalled i guess i'll sleep now and debug whatever i have to debug tomorrow

[rigid snow]

chay installing windows what's next

[tender river]

erm i don't know

next i will buy a device and not flash it

[rigid snow]

will this become a reality

[tender river]

too poor

[hoary lion]

this cannot be real

4 keywords all does not match with chay

[tender river]

i would never lie

also something i've realized today

i haven't had a linux live cd for like a year

ever since my android phone broke

and i didn't even notice

nixos

[rigid snow]

you should burn one

[tender river]

it would be a fire hazard

[rigid snow]

hey google is burning cds dangerous

alexa

siri

[olive sable]

Konii you're british, is dr. Who worth watching?

[rigid snow]

neuro-sama

[tender river]

its alright if you want to pass time

i binge watched all 9 seasons in school

i hated the angels

[rigid snow]

no sam you will be working on vk stuff sam you will never pass time sam

you will never be unproductive

[olive sable]

Ye nah im not doing vk rn

I need to work around the house tomorrow

And its 10pm already

[tender river]

just watch the first season and see

note that different seasons have different directors

[olive sable]

huh

[tender river]

so the vibe changes somewhat, the setting is the main unifying thing

[olive sable]

i just saw a buch of clips on yt shorts so it looked interesting

[tender river]

thats kinda its big deal, what allows it to run for so long

is that it can just freely sack actors and directors

[olive sable]

||something about daleks vs the other robots and there was also something with the tardus being a girl or something||
idk if these are spoilers so just to be safe

[rigid snow]

i know people irl who watch shows this way, and i don't mean like clips
imagine a vod sliced into 4 minute clips and you'd go to the clippers channel and watch them in order

[olive sable]

bruh

[tender river]

brain poisoning

(i can understand this if you dont really care that much for the show and just want to get the references or whatever though)

[rigid snow]

when i say sliced i actually mean sliced btw

chunked

the whole thing

[tender river]

also theres so many touhou fans that have never played a single game so

[olive sable]

i used to watch yt videos where they go through a manga or sometihng cuz i cant be bothered to read it myself, but besides that i liek watching the whole thing

[tender river]

manga is like the easiest thing to go through

[rigid snow]

just look at the cover art

and you're done

[olive sable]

im lying actually im rewatching overlord and skipped the entire lizardman arc cuz its boring asf

[olive sable]

manga needs your full atention tho cuz its reading, i use those vids as bg noise

[tender river]

mhm but then whats the point you won't remember anything

[olive sable]

thats a good thing

then i can read it again later

[tender river]

okay then

[rigid snow]

that depends on the person i'd say, for example reading is one of the hardest activities for me to pay full attention and i end up reading the same page thrice to understand what's going on

[olive sable]

my memory used to be dogshit so i have rewatched steinsgate about 15 times already. now i know whats gonna happen so its a bit less interesting to watch

[rigid snow]

not manga specifically, anything

[opaque sigil]

for me it depends on the manga, some are super chill to read through and then there's ones like one piece

[tender river]

i read the entirety of bleach in school its like what 650 chapters?

[olive sable]

im not that bad in terms of re-reading, but i do need to put my full focus on it or i will get distracted and then ill forget what was happening in the story

[tender river]

698

[olive sable]

[tender river]

but i couldnt finish the anime because it was so long

[olive sable]

i mainly watch anime so i dont have an impresive score on manga, but i have watched 300 diffrent anime

[tender river]

i stopped at like episode 170

honestly i've had enough after fairy tail s1+s2

that was the last two long anime i've finished

[rigid snow]

code review is especially hard

i mean not hard it just takes me forever

[olive sable]

ye at this point i probably have 2000 hours worth of anime watched

[hoary lion]

awa

impressive

[olive sable]

so 2 and a half month of my life, and im 217 months old

so about 1% of my life is anime

[hoary lion]

waw

[olive sable]

worth it

oh damn dr who is on disney+

[rigid snow]

don't ever ask league/dota players to calculate how much that game took of their life

[tender river]

or rhythm game players

[rigid snow]

i can't physically play more than like 3-4h a day

[olive sable]

i have 4k hours in minecraft so thats 2% of my life

[rigid snow]

i am exhaaaausted

[olive sable]

when i start up satisfactory i play for about 12 hours

but i play like once every 6 months

purely cuz i dont really play many games anymore

[rigid snow]

don't get me started on mc. if there was a steam like display of hours it'd be really bad

i have tens of thousands

i started playing in 2010

[olive sable]

understandable

i was 3 in 2010 lmao

[rigid snow]

[olive sable]

i started palying on clones but i got the real game when i was 8 or so probably

1.11 update was already out

2016

[tender river]

i played kopatel online for a bit

[rigid snow]

there's no fucking way

[olive sable]

honestly, at this point the mc clones have more charm to me than the real game

real mincraft lost its touch

[rigid snow]

they have an english localized name, it's called "digger online"

[tender river]

i was barely in primary school i eventually just bought minecraft in like 4th grade

and um played it on friends pc before that

[rigid snow]

we have played it when it was popular but mainly for shits and giggles

[olive sable]

to me this isnt as polished, but it feels more alive

[tender river]

i stopped playing minecraft around 1.8

[olive sable]

you know

its probably cuz i know the game like the back of my hand

[opaque wharf]

Stardew Valley

[olive sable]

there's nothing interesting baout it anymore

[amber fractal]

I should stop lurking and remember to speam

[olive sable]

speam

[rigid snow]

speam

[olive sable]

[opaque wharf]

Bro this makes me feel old

[amber fractal]

frick it changes back to speam

[olive sable]

realize that 2007 is 18 years ago and suffer

i will bask in your oldge

[amber fractal]

So you stopped when I started mostly, because I started at 1.7.10

[opaque wharf]

I'm not even that old

[olive sable]

he said its speaming time and speamed all over the place

[rigid snow]

the older we get the smaller the age difference gets. i remember when kids in 5th grade seemed like adults to me when i was in 3rd

and now we are the same age basically

[opaque wharf]

That's true yeah

3 years is nothing when you are 20+

[rigid snow]

why do so many people avoid modded i don't get it

that's the actual time sink

[olive sable]

its that, but i also feel like a lot more changes in a short time as a kid. as a kid you go to elementary school and finish it 6 years later, during that time you grew 2 heads taller.
as an adult 6 years is not that much

[amber fractal]

Modded is a very real time sink

[opaque wharf]

Modded any game is a time sink

[rigid snow]

minecraft tho

[opaque wharf]

Some people spent years on modded skyrim

[rigid snow]

ok yeah skyrim sure

[nocturne olive]

And also likes memory

[rigid snow]

nowadays it's so much better

[olive sable]

i dont avoid it, i just havent joined shadow's server in half a year

[amber fractal]

ATM10 needing 10gb

[nocturne olive]

SMOL

[rigid snow]

atm players

[olive sable]

we shoudl atm9 again sometime

[nocturne olive]

I have 64GB I will use the 64GB

[opaque wharf]

What is ATM? Minecraft mod?

AT Minecraft?

[olive sable]

all the mods

[rigid snow]

minecraft modpack series called "all the mods" yeh

[opaque wharf]

Can't imagine how that would be balance

[rigid snow]

balancing is very much mid

in atm

imo

[opaque wharf]

Then there's also people that play Gregtech or supersymmetry

[amber fractal]

I wish the best of luck to those people's sanity

[opaque wharf]

Like, why

[olive sable]

it doesnt allow me to add more than that, so its at 20gb rn

or well, curse does but mc itself complains

[opaque wharf]

What to eat for breakfast guys?

[olive sable]

uhhh

pudding

i could go for some pudding rn but we dont have any bwaa

[opaque wharf]

What kind of breakfast is that

[olive sable]

idk

i dont eat breakfast

[amber fractal]

I've done this more than once

[rigid snow]

why would you need more? i dabbled in creating modpacks and like, on modern versions i can get the game to run at 3gb with 200+ mods without gc triggering stutters/lag, as i said it's pretty good on modern versions with all the optimization mods that came out

in the recent years

[olive sable]

what i call breakfasts is just my early-morning-before-bed-snack

[opaque wharf]

Pudding for breakfast?

I want some fried rice but my rice is not firm enough bwaa

[rigid snow]

guys you wanna know my breakfast

plain black tea

[olive sable]

cuz i have more, i want to game to use however much it needs so its not ram bound

[opaque wharf]

Russian af lol

Or slavic rather

[olive sable]

idk if thats better or worse than nothing

[rigid snow]

is atm that bad

[olive sable]

not really

[amber fractal]

Parent approved, 2 weeks ago I was having donuts for breakfast

[olive sable]

its up there

but not 32GB up there

it can do with 10 probably

[opaque wharf]

Man, our breakfast is usually something with rice here

[olive sable]

but as i have 64gb my thinking is just "leave 16gb for system tasks and give Minecraft the rest"

[rigid snow]

it's way better than nothing, good trick if you're starving is just drink boiled hot water, it feels hearty and will fool you

[amber fractal]

Most of the time I just skip breakfast, but sometimes the first priority is eating anything instead of nothing

[olive sable]

ill stick with this banana and lotus cookies i have thank you very much

[opaque wharf]

Or make a simple soup using bouillon and green onion

[rigid snow]

i mean like if you're not home or something

[olive sable]

if im not home i wont be able to boil wate

motherfucker

[amber fractal]

Mods!

[olive sable]

@patent walrus

[opaque wharf]

Should I ask that bot what to eat?

[patent walrus]

oh

thanks

[opaque wharf]

Thanks!

[olive sable]

its not even the original scam anymore

[opaque wharf]

What is it now? Not Mr. Beast?

[olive sable]

someone took a picture with his phone of the images on his screen

still mr animal

[opaque wharf]

[rigid snow]

ever seen those office cold water dispensers? they usually have a hot option too

[olive sable]

office

[uneven pulsar]

and the good ones have soda too

[rigid snow]

they're not in offices only

[olive sable]

im proffesionaly jobless

[opaque wharf]

I think the hot water is in fact the common one not the cold one

[opaque wharf]

Wdym has soda?

As in, it carbonates water on the fly?

[uneven pulsar]

yup

[opaque wharf]

[amber fractal]

Are you perhaps referring to a fountain drink dispenser

I know some are specialised for coffee and those are hot

[rigid snow]

that's probably for instant noodles, lately i've seen way more of ones that don't have a hot option

because we don't really eat instant noodles and a kettle suffices for hot drinks

[opaque wharf]

Huh, it is more common to have the hot ones here than the cold one

[olive sable]

then where? cuz in belgium we dont really do hospitality for free. its only in places you have to pay for or at an office

[opaque wharf]

Like this, but 2 tap

[rigid snow]

yeah

[opaque wharf]

One is regular, one is hot

[rigid snow]

yep

[olive sable]

i have never seen that before in my entire life

[opaque wharf]

What kind of country is that

[hoary lion]

that's a water purifier?

[opaque wharf]

A dispenser

[rigid snow]

it's just a dispenser

that heats/cools the water

[hoary lion]

oh mb yeah dispenser

[olive sable]

we jsut dont care about strangers

[hoary lion]

but I always remember that big bottle of water to be placed on the dispenser

[rigid snow]

it varies

[opaque wharf]

Yeah, that's more common model

[olive sable]

i asume it just gets pumped up

[opaque wharf]

This one doesn't

It uses gravity

[hoary lion]

cheap ones

[rigid snow]

the tall ones sometimes have a fridge at the bottom too

[opaque wharf]

An ass to get the carboy there

[rigid snow]

"fridge", for soda cans

[hoary lion]

that is not a regular dispenser atp

[uneven pulsar]

this one has carbonated on the middle

[olive sable]

a what???

[hoary lion]

overengineered piece
carbonates on the fly is crazxy

[opaque wharf]

Damn, never seen that one before

[opaque wharf]

Carboy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carboy

[olive sable]

ohhhhh

i thought carboy as in the butler person that holds your car door open

[amber fractal]

I did not know those bois did hot

[rigid snow]

carbonating on the fly isn't that crazy, there's even a term for those, "soda fountain"

[opaque wharf]

Wtf?

[olive sable]

carbonating on the fly is just using co2 canistors

[opaque wharf]

Is hot really not more common outside of Asia?

[uneven pulsar]

current office has them on tap water so they have these giant co2 tanks and can create infinite cold sparkly water

[olive sable]

never seen one in my life

[rigid snow]

not even outside of your country??

[hoary lion]

I need that

[olive sable]

the ones with cold are just in offices, my dad's work has one

but besides that nowhere

[rigid snow]

i refuse to believe that, in some countries water fountains are more common but these are still very prevalent

[cosmic sphinx]

bro i understand less and less how this bracket works
all games were first to 4
but grok won by 1 point at 3-2, meaning it was ft3 (bo5)?

this is such a mess

[hoary lion]

what is that game bracket even about?

[rigid snow]

chess

[hoary lion]

what is the metrics here

[olive sable]

its not like i perticularly looked for one, but i cant remember seeing any in france, poland, spain or austria

[cosmic sphinx]

chess ai tournament

hosted by kaggle/deepmind

[hoary lion]

oh isee

[cosmic sphinx]

and chess.com ofc

[hoary lion]

but it's really weird, shouldnt this be bo7?

🤔

[cosmic sphinx]

in their description it was supposed to be bo4

bo4 is a weird concept tho

[hoary lion]

[rough bloom]

bo4 seems like the wrong term for this
it seems that they always run 4 games and only do a tiebreaker if necessary

[hoary lion]

i thought there should only be odd numbers of round

[rigid snow]

overing

[rough bloom]

so it ends up as bo5 except with extra unnecessary games

[cosmic sphinx]

wait what
the game ended just like that?

this aint even a checkmate

[hoary lion]

??

[rigid snow]

custom rules for ai bros to understand basic tournaments better

[cosmic sphinx]

vibe chess

[hoary lion]

maybe gemini made an impossible move that still got itself to checkmate again

so they just ended it

[cosmic sphinx]

video didnt show gemini respond to that so idk

[rigid snow]

it just stood up and left

[cosmic sphinx]

https://tenor.com/tuYM5syx1jI.gif

[hoary lion]

gg'd mid match

[opaque wharf]

https://browser.horse/

WHY

[opaque sigil]

[hoary lion]

[opaque sigil]

honestly i kinda like the idea of this

[opaque wharf]

I guess that counts

[amber fractal]

Reminds me of how tab groups work in one of the firefox tree plugins

[opaque wharf]

I was just looking for a program, any program, named horse

[tender river]

🐴

[opaque wharf]

THe browser is paid btw

[rough bloom]

tree-like tabs are not a new idea, you can get some version of them as an extension for basically any browser

[opaque sigil]

oh nvm i guess

[opaque wharf]

I don't even know anymore with this

[opaque wharf]

Yes, that horse is on their site

[amber fractal]

Honse

[rigid snow]

if chrome is so hard to fork why don't we have many webkit browsers

i say "we don't have many" when there's basically only safari and epiphany

[opaque sigil]

who said chromium is hard to fork

you can do it you just won't be able to keep up

[rigid snow]

that's what i mean

it's hard to meaningfully mod

[rough bloom]

how dare you forget about the Nintendo 3DS internet browser

and probably many others like it

[rigid snow]

let's bring up the playstation browser too while we're at it

[opaque sigil]

if i had to guess it's cause webkit alone doesn't get you that much, you'd still need to build a whole browser around it

[rigid snow]

i mean desktop

[opaque sigil]

which most people will never do

[rough bloom]

yeah, that would be my guess too

[opaque sigil]

easier to just take chromium and change some styling

[rigid snow]

fork epiphany then

[rough bloom]

easier to take the chromium GUI and modify it than to build one from scratch

[rigid snow]

so easy a particular company made a business out of making a proprietary framework around it

[rough bloom]

do WebKit based browsers get access to Chrome extensions? I assume not?

[opaque sigil]

technically we do have a bunch of webkit forks, they're just forked twice

[rigid snow]

no, you'll have to roll your own extension system

maybe you can hack it on but

[rough bloom]

yeah, that'll be another big reason then

[rigid snow]

safari for windows was so gorgeous

[opaque sigil]

didn't it run like hot garbage

or am i misremembering

[rigid snow]

i used chrome back then i don't remember either

[rigid snow]

apple nowadays follows the design language of the platforms they develop for

the windows icloud app looks awful because they follow whatever the stupid windows 11 design system is called

apple music for android too

[opaque sigil]

which one, there are like 4

i honestly kinda like the new fluent design

[rigid snow]

"fluent"

i'm so lost genuinely

[rough bloom]

imagine being one of the 3 people at Apple who have to use the Windows design stuff while everyone else gets to use Apples

[rigid snow]

can they stop changing what they want apps to look like each windows release

not even, there was a change during windows 10 too

everything became acrylic or whatever

[opaque wharf]

Fluent design is what windows call their design system?

[rigid snow]

they call it Fluent

oh i knew the name felt older than the current design system

it's actually fluent 2

https://fluent2.microsoft.design/

[opaque wharf]

Scrolling the site is very laggy

[rigid snow]

LMAOOOOO

ever wanted to make your web app look like microsoft slop

https://react.fluentui.dev/

[sage crag]

microslop

[rigid snow]

theres simply no way

they made it into a library

as if ANY fucking person will touch this

[sage crag]

i think fluent is the design language i singularly dislike the most

[rigid snow]

the github repo has 19.5k stars

for the react lib

my faith in humanity is depleted

i'm going to sleep

[opaque wharf]

I'm with you on this one. Reading their design language hurt my brains

[rigid snow]

wait

[rigid snow]

19.5k microsoft employees potentially?

man just bring back metro at this point ts so ass

[jagged turtle]

wtf is this

bro how OLD is this

[rigid snow]

it's apparently VERY new

[jagged turtle]

yarn in 2025 is 💀

oh yeah. that makes sense. yup

[jagged turtle]

speaking of

yeah no this is just microsoft- theme

[opaque wharf]

Is there a react equivalent of https://vuetifyjs.com/en/ ?

[opaque sigil]

You mean the hundreds of react component libraries?

[opaque wharf]

The problem is I can't find one that uses MD 3

[opaque sigil]

Oh I guess the reference gives web components

[rare bridge]

my promise resolved before it logged

[opaque wharf]

Did they continue it again? I remember they discontinued it

[opaque wharf]

You're writing raw JS again?

[olive sable]

ive never seen "promise" before. so thats js huh?

that line of code reads like an isekai slop title promise changed; false data undefined

[opaque wharf]

This is isekai slop

[opaque wharf]

Also, that is not necessarily JS too tbf

[olive sable]

i wouldnt know

[opaque sigil]

Idk any other language that calls it promise off the top of my head

[opaque wharf]

Hmm, you're right. I confused it with async

[opaque sigil]

I guess it could be a custom type

Oh wait

c++ has promises

Right

[olive sable]

it does?

[opaque sigil]

Not as part of the language but yes

[opaque sigil]

https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/thread/promise.html

Useful for passing data back from threads

[olive sable]

a facility to store a value or an exception that is later acquired asynchronously via a std::future object created by the std::promise object.

ye multithreading or general async is the only use i can see for this

[opaque sigil]

A bit nicer than passing raw pointers around

[opaque wharf]

I still haven't solved my breakfast problem

[opaque sigil]

Porridge

[opaque wharf]

Oh, nice idea thanks

It's been a while since I've had porridge too

[opaque sigil]

I kinda want some too but I'm in bed

Guess I know what I'll have for breakfast tomorrow

[bitter coral]

guys did i finally cook a frame system?

[olive sable]

what is the context of this?
a frame system for what?

[bitter coral]

my art program. I also finished making the layers their own resources which was more effort than i thought.

[olive sable]

[bitter coral]

I need to make an export frame and export as sheet functions or something so that I can actually use the images more conveniently in other Godot projects but for now I should work on the frame ui a bit more.

I should also restructure my code eventually as I'm approaching 1000 lines of code which seems like a bit much for this.

[jagged turtle]

isn't a promise the result of an async function in js?

[sick owl]

Final round of the AI chess tourney comes down to Grok 4 and o3

[fast pagoda]

wehn the browser addon wants $8/month for all its features

hmm

ii make

mine even found the colours used by the addon lel

[hoary lion]

gj

[bitter coral]

why does my program lag when selecting line edit nodes?

[fast pagoda]

big progam

[bitter coral]

But there doesn’t seem to be any lag spikes anywhere else and I only have 11 line edit nodes. It’s not really a big issue but the animations and my mouse gets choppy for a second after selecting one.

[fast pagoda]

whatever that is it looks like it's within minecraft

so that's probably the lag

[bitter coral]

Ah yes my godot project is made in Minecraft mhm

[fast pagoda]

pixel = minecraft didnt u kno

[bitter coral]

I maybe could make it with redstone but I’d need Java edition.

[bitter coral]

Surely no Ui changes need to be made to support the influx of layers.

[hoary lion]

[raven dock]

i sound sexy af, ngl

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/165690560084967424/1402878838534438993/luna_speech_1754542633_813e77b6.wav?ex=6895843b&is=689432bb&hm=c67757f8cb93b24ceb5eab2a3f30a66cbf7e2a193fb4b6b35f19fe11945b851b&

[hoary lion]

where are your embed perms

[opaque wharf]

He left it at home

[hoary lion]

cmon

i aint downloading a wav file

[opaque wharf]

Yeah, but not every language that supports async uses promise

[lament igloo]

https://endtimes.dev/why-your-website-should-be-under-14kb-in-size/

hmmmm i wonder

[bitter coral]

This is a good example that I might want to be able to use layers that are able to be in multiple frames. Which is extremely easy to implement code wise but once again it seems like it’d be a pain Ui wise.

[opaque wharf]

I swear that some people just hate the web to actually be a useful place

[lament igloo]

i mean... i think applies to articles

and i admit, i do hate bloated js libraries that take up 40mb

[opaque wharf]

There are also exceptions to the kind of article. Just look at any manufacturer product page that showcases their product. There are artistic intentions beside the actual copywriting

Some infographic/interactive articles also have no choice but due to the need of many graphics element

I agree however a very specific kind of page shouldn't exceed certain size

So rather than saying "the web should be less than #" in general, I'd say it should only apply to a very specific set of it

And what's more is JS can actually help. By loading the article via API and not resend the navbar HTML for the nth time, and just replace the <article> section as needed

[bleak halo]

I think that fits the "load critical parts first" strategy

[patent walrus]

forgot to post today

Puzzle: #433
Time: 5m 30s
Hints: 0

  🟩🟩🟩

🟩🟩🟩🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩
🟩🟩🟩

https://regexle.com/?day=433&side=3

[nocturne olive]

At this point I've almost got a perfect Linux remote desktop solution, the only last hurdle to overcome is just audio
The graphics part is already way better than it ever was on Windows

[opaque wharf]

What are you using?

[fast pagoda]

what's killing you on audio

pipwire works fine for me

ive heard some have like quiet audio with it tho

[nocturne olive]

VNC doesn't have direct audio redirection built-in, so I need to figure that out separately

[opaque wharf]

Oh, VNC

[fast pagoda]

use rdp

[nocturne olive]

I tried

[fast pagoda]

oh wait if wayland then

[nocturne olive]

It didn't work

[fast pagoda]

i tried on wayland too

nope

[nocturne olive]

X11

[fast pagoda]

oh

well then i declare that is ur fault

nah jk

it's janky

[nocturne olive]

I tried XRDP, I got really close but the final login failed

[fast pagoda]

what environment are you running

easiest by far for me to get working was gnome

[nocturne olive]

No matter what I did, it would hang on the blue screen after tying in credentials

[fast pagoda]

that's weird

[nocturne olive]

Cinnamon on Mint

[bleak halo]

Do you have pulse audio

[fast pagoda]

i actually got to the point it would connect when connecting KDE -> openbox but then it exploded because wayland

[nocturne olive]

PipeWire + PipeWire-Pulse

[bleak halo]

I'm not very knowledgeable in this but I would suggest forwarding sound through another channel

[nocturne olive]

It also gave some weird, cryptic errors

[bleak halo]

since VNC doesn't have sound

[fast pagoda]

i remember the ones i had being weird until i realized they were basically "it aint gonna work bro"

[nocturne olive]

I already knew that

[fast pagoda]

ssh only CHAD time

[bleak halo]

that or find a vnc extension

[fast pagoda]

have you tried remmina

also x11vnc

[nocturne olive]

I'm currently on X11VNC

Set it up 3am yesterday because I just could not get XRDP to work

[fast pagoda]

cachyOS has neatvnc and tigervnc in their repo

which means they must be relatively up to date

[nocturne olive]

I'm on Mint

And my client machine is Windows

[fast pagoda]

yeah im just speaking from a "recentness" perspective usually i assume the more recent the more compatible it's gonna be

are you able to get it to work from like your phont to one of the maachines

also what kind of network connection are we talking between them

i got blasted because both my pcs were on different subnets of my LAN so it was just like nah for a while

[nocturne olive]

I know it should work, nothing about the network inherently changed from my Windows RDP setup

[fast pagoda]

id try tight VNC/tiger VNC

dont try realvnc, it sucks and not even because it sucks but because i installed it and launched it once and the guy is literally still emailing me

[opaque wharf]

If you are not hung up on open source solution, have you tried nomachine?

[nocturne olive]

I'm currently remoted from TightVNC

[nocturne olive]

I looked into it, could not find a pure self-host setup

[fast pagoda]

does proton work

i think ti doesnt have a server from linux

only to window

not proton

what am i think ing of

prarsec

parsec

[nocturne olive]

Never heard of it

[opaque wharf]

Oh yeah, parsec is for gaming but may work

[fast pagoda]

i only know about it because of vedal lmfao

[opaque wharf]

Because game needs low latency and audio

[fast pagoda]

i looked into parsec and the problem was

you can connect to a pc from linux

but they dont have a linux host server

[nocturne olive]

I want a fully self-hosted setup I can directly connect to

[fast pagoda]

so it depends on the direction you need to go

[nocturne olive]

Linux is explicitly host, Windows is explicitly client

[fast pagoda]

then i'd say parsec is right out

[opaque wharf]

Also, superbox, wdym nomachine don't have self host?

[nocturne olive]

Really the GUI part with VNC works perfectly, even better than RDP + Windows, the audio is the only thing I didn't have time to bang my head against last night

[fast pagoda]

there has to be some easy way to bs your way around that

[nocturne olive]

At least I could not find any that doesn't in some way interact with a central server

From what I know, something with pipewire-pulse is my best bet

[opaque wharf]

??? I think you're thinking of NoMachine Network

https://www.nomachine.com/support/documents/getting-started-with-nomachine

NoMachine enables secure access to remote computers over the Internet and on LAN, wherever those computers are. Free for personal use, NoMachine can be used to access your own desktop, to provide remote assistance on someone else's computer and facilitate remote collaboration. There are two ways you can connect to your computer using NoMachine: by using IP address of the machine you want to connect to (local or public-facing)

[rough bloom]

You can do NVIDIA game streaming with Sunshine and Moonlight probably, pretty sure that does audio too

[opaque wharf]

That reminds me of the cursed docs that they have and not supporting proxy

[nocturne olive]

I never found this page

Though I was really tired when trying to figure something out

[nocturne olive]

I want full desktop. not just games

[rough bloom]

you can do full desktop with that

at least you could with a Windows host, but I don't see why it wouldn't also work under Linux

[opaque wharf]

I gotta say tho, the docs aren't that great for both of those

[nocturne olive]

Either way, for the desktop VNC works perfectly well already
I'll need either to figure out PulseAudio redirect with pipewire-pulse or a custom solution with my own code for audio most likely

[rough bloom]

they're kinda hidden, but it's not too bad
Moonlight has good setup instructions here
https://github.com/moonlight-stream/moonlight-docs/wiki/Setup-Guide

[fast pagoda]

custom let's goooo

[nocturne olive]

Just random extra stuff to figure out
In theory a custom setup doesn't seem too bad if I can get a way to stream the audio output of the system into some sort of buffer

[fast pagoda]

apparently realvnc connect7+ can handle udp audio

[rough bloom]

If you're using Sunshine, you'll already have a built-in "Desktop" app. This only applies for hosts using GeForce Experience.
the second part is slightly concerning but I'm sure there's a way

[nocturne olive]

But if pipewire pulse works I'll just use that

[fast pagoda]

nevermind enterprise only

what a stupid paywall that it

[opaque wharf]

We are doing another jank. LFG!

[nocturne olive]

All the VNC x audio stuff I found directly made was paywalled

[nocturne olive]

Whar?

[fast pagoda]

there is a pulseaudio-win32 package on choco (probably scoop too then)

so you could just run that and slap ur linux's ip in that config then configure pipewire.conf with the ip/port thru libpipewire

[opaque wharf]

Nah, I just think it's a bit jank that you'll do custom pipewire-pulse to solve just the audio

Because you also need to sync it with the vnc somehow or it could be jarring I think

[fast pagoda]

pipewire latency should be like

under half a second

if it's not a horrible hop

[opaque wharf]

Yeah, but the vnc latency could be bigger

So the audio arrives first

[fast pagoda]

fine tune it like a boss

add custom delay

[opaque wharf]

Which is why I said a bit jank lol

[nocturne olive]

If I write custom code I can tune it to do whatever

but yeah, I would like to aboid that scuffed solution

[fast pagoda]

i would try remmina with RDP before i did that

it's both copyleft and libre which means this goat is all in

[rough bloom]

apparently Sunshine works perfectly fine on Linux, including for full desktop

[fast pagoda]

sunshine and moonlight huh

i know they're real i just feel like theyre not

because of the names

[opaque wharf]

Well, I do not believe a program named horse exists either at first and yet here we are

https://browser.horse btw

[fast pagoda]

kek

[opaque wharf]

And also, .horse TLD

[fast pagoda]

amazing

this looks like zen browser but even more

[opaque wharf]

I'm just baffled by the fact that it is a subscription browser

I wish the mozilla foundation would provide a better way to support firefox development than whatever the exec thinks are for greater good of the internet

[opaque sigil]

I wouldn't mind a subscription browser if they actually offered anything worthwhile personally

But like, this is kind of just a slightly more polished extension maybe

[opaque wharf]

Well, I still prefer a browser to be free, but I do understand the need for money to support development due to the ever changing spec of the web. That is why if firefox have a direct donation then that would be preferable instead of going through the mozilla foundation

[opaque sigil]

But how else will those poor execs survive

[opaque wharf]

I do believe a good exec is invaluable. But I don't think whatever mozilla is doing is a good thing right now. Just look at Gabe and Linus (well, albeit Linus is not exactly an exec)

[hard raptor]

Hey people of programming chat, i just want to tell a quick story on how reliable samsung SSDs really are..
So i had this micron SSD for like 2 years... and it broke down like 10 minutes ago...

So now i am transferring files from both the micron ssd and another samsung ssd i had for like 7 years.. and the samsung SSD is still as fast as advertised and still is in perfect condition (like 98% or something)

And i am gonna overwrite the samsung ssd with a new OS install cuz i need my main laptop

[rough bloom]

some samsung SSDs had issues that caused them to wear a lot faster but yeah they're generally quite reliable

[opaque wharf]

Samsung is the brand that usually flops on the first few gen, but solid choice after a few iteration

[hard raptor]

Probably cuz they genuinely try to improve the flaws as best as they can without cutting corners

Probably also why they are sometimes wayyy more expensive

[opaque wharf]

That, they are

[opaque sigil]

My decade old Samsung ssd is still going as strong as ever too

[hard raptor]

If i remember correctly it is mostly Sandisk, Kingston and Samsung that are generally most reliable

According to google the newer flash storage products of micron have improved a lot though... still don't think that i want to risk it

[faint sandal]

when is it getting an uma musume adaptation

[opaque wharf]

Buy a subscription and ask their support

[uneven pulsar]

scrum masters are scum masters scrum masters are scum masters scrum masters are scum masters

i respect their hustle for they do no work only get paid i respect their hustle for they do no work only get paid

thank you for coming to my outrage talk segment

[unkempt citrus]

Isn't thtis just tree style tabs?

[opaque wharf]

It is

[uneven pulsar]

that's kind of how marketing works

they do nothing new under the sun but make a fuss about it until clueless people all throw themselves at them and then peer pressure you into doing the same

[sage crag]

crazy how much they can sell fancy tabs for

£10/month is similar to the cost of protonplus

lol

[opaque sigil]

It's practically 5 a month

[opaque wharf]

How?

The yearly plan?

[sage crag]

proton is damn cheap not sure how

but i decided to ignore it because awa

[opaque wharf]

Oh, I thought toast was talking about the horse browser

[opaque sigil]

I was

And yeah I was talking about the yearly plan

[sage crag]

awa

[noble zodiac]

me doing ungodly things in css to avoid having to write 20 lines of javacsript

[opaque wharf]

Don't worry, HTML5 and CSS3 is turing complete

[noble zodiac]

that doesn't help in the slightest

[opaque wharf]

It helps to ease your mind that whatever you're trying to compute is computable so long as other programming language able to compute it too

[noble zodiac]

as I said, it doesn't help

[uneven pulsar]

the best way to avoid javascript as a whole is economic collapse that leaves us without electricity

[tender river]

was reading an online guide, thought the writing was a bit suspicious, and my chatgpt radar was right

[desert plaza]

How to E

[opaque wharf]

https://tenor.com/view/marikiplier-e-meme-lord-farquaad-gif-22138504

[desert plaza]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-yeah-hell-gif-18853369

[rigid snow]

htmx htmx htmx

i actually never tried htmx because i don’t know what the most convenient server side solution would be for it and i feel like it would be only convenient for projects of a very specific scope if that makes sense

[uneven pulsar]

GOD fucking dam it i just wrote a 200 lines where did the 1090 come from??

[rigid snow]

it literally says that it’s in a different file

also another macos user spotted

[olive sable]

Goodmorning

[rigid snow]

hi

[opaque sigil]

good afternoon

[uneven pulsar]

what?

[opaque sigil]

welcome to the reality that 99% of the code that runs isn't yours

you used the dataclass incorrectly so it complained inside the library

[rigid snow]

especially in python

[uneven pulsar]

man you gotta be shiting with me

[desert plaza]

[opaque sigil]

would you rather it just silently fail

[uneven pulsar]

i swear to god my code is debating over me

[opaque sigil]

put the id field at the end

[uneven pulsar]

ok

[opaque wharf]

Or try its best and be JS

[uneven pulsar]

WAiT IT WORKED WTF

[opaque sigil]

well yeah