programming

[tender river]

thats a different one i think

[rigid snow]

owned by the same holding

[opaque wharf]

Did you guys have bootleg youtube now?

[rigid snow]

like 10 of them

[opaque wharf]

Amazing

[rigid snow]

all of which suck

like genuinely they're just awful ux

[opaque wharf]

Alright, work done. What to eat now?

[rigid snow]

everyone's still on youtube

i already suggested bread in the past, i don't want to make you eat bread again

[opaque wharf]

Stir fry with kimchi it is

[faint sandal]

sounds good

[sage crag]

eat plain crackers

[opaque wharf]

I am not British thank you very much

[desert plaza]

[hoary lion]

Nom

[dark axle]

anyone here familiar with the neuro game sdk enough to know if I can use the Unity C# package outside of the context of Unity? Trying to make a stardew valley integration mod, but stardew has its own custom engine

[tender river]

i made one in F#

that doesnt require anything from unity

the C# sdk doesnt work for non-unity games

the F# sdk does and can be used for any .NET game

[dark axle]

👀 can you link the github? very interested in using in that case

[bold rover]

https://github.com/VedalAI/neuro-game-sdk

[tender river]

sorry i'm basically copy pasting it between projects, but here are two examples:
https://github.com/chayleaf/NeuroShogun/
https://github.com/chayleaf/Nuerax

they use bepinex since both are for unity games, but its not too hard to adapt it for any modding framework

[dark axle]

neuro playing shogun showdown would be lit oml

[sage crag]

bwaleaf

[tender river]

it should work but neuro might be a bit stupid for now

hopefully it works out well some day

[tender river]

NeuroFSharp.fs: the sdk
JsonValue.fs: json deserialization/serialization (dependency of NeuroFSharp)
Library.fs: the game integration
Patches.fs: the harmony patches

[tender river]

[sage crag]

:vedalBwaa:

[rigid snow]

(edited)

[tender river]

and heres an example of a non-unity game https://github.com/chayleaf/Neurator/blob/master/Library.fs

[sage crag]

-# (edited)

[tender river]

(rimworld integration, not finished, that also means the game integration code is very small)

[rigid snow]

the twitch sub emotes in discord are broken, here's the thing that pisses me off
but i copied it and pasting:

wait what the fuck

they fixed it

[dark axle]

has anyone built a llm webhook client to test their integrations with a real AI?

[tender river]

yes, theres a lot of options available

[rigid snow]

scroll up 200 or so messages

[tender river]

see neuro sdk github README, they have a list of available tools

[dark axle]

oohhh i see, i missed that somehow

cool tysm

[tender river]

feel free to ask if you have any questions about F# (hopefully the examples i provided should be enough to get you started but you probably dont know the language)

[rigid snow]

not many people do you're correct on that

[dark axle]

hah i indeed do not know F#, i'll dig around though and ask if im lost, ty

[tender river]

probably easiest to think of it as a hybrid between C# and rust

[rigid snow]

how are they on v0.2.5 of wasi (v0.3 expected this month) and still have not figured threads out since v0.1

i need wasm threads to live

i'm waiting since 2022

[opaque wharf]

It seems like there are no good LLM inference framework that support websocket OOTB

[rigid snow]

they are kind of a thing now, but it involves calling a js function that will spawn a web worker and alloc shared memory (which has many many limitations), so fake threads

[dark axle]

seems the industry standard is MCP which is sse/streamablehttp and websocket is kinda a better idea but not really implemented

[opaque wharf]

Yeah, I was looking at the available neuro simulator tools and trying to see if there are inference framework that support websocket. But this is the closest I could find https://docs.bentoml.com/en/latest/build-with-bentoml/websocket.html

[sage crag]

noo thats the wrong curse

[tender river]

[sage crag]

youre supposed to say "i can only die after wasm threads come out"

[dark axle]

^^^ immortality

[opaque wharf]

konii, your cursing permission is still not restored yet isn't it?

[sage crag]

noe

[rigid snow]

konii i curse you with the ability to curse again

[sage crag]

how does this work

[tender river]

frick

[opaque wharf]

Shouldn't that be a blessing?

[rigid snow]

depends how you look at it, right?

[sage crag]

prepare thyself

[olive sable]

hi

[velvet crest]

You have unlocked new role

[flint dome]

You have unlocked new role

[tender river]

You have unlocked newro le

[opaque wharf]

Who are you, what happened to Sam?

[rigid snow]

what the heck did sam get in trouble

[olive sable]

Since i don't have you in dm Chay, i would like to apologize to you too for earlier. it was never my intention to make anyone here uncomfortable.

[tender river]

dw

[sage crag]

with da police

[opaque wharf]

I bless thou with the ability to beshrew

[sage crag]

[rigid snow]

[opaque sigil]

[rigid snow]

sam would never do anything illegal

[sage crag]

[rigid snow]

wait he got in trouble for that??????

[opaque wharf]

I bestow upon thee the power to invoke thy curses once more.

[tender river]

he left by himself

[rigid snow]

oh makes way more sense

[opaque wharf]

This is a fun one
https://anythingtranslate.com/translators/fancy-old-english-translator/

Hast thou ever wished to transform thine ordinary words into the majestic allure of Fancy Old English? Look no further than the Fancy Old English Translator! This splendid tool takes your modern expressions and weaves them into the ornate tapestry of antiquated vernacular, bringing forth a language brimming with elegance and grandeur. Whether thou art penning a love letter or crafting epic tales, let this translator adorn thine phrases with the charm of yesteryears, thus captivating the hearts of all who read them!

[olive sable]

i try not to

[rigid snow]

self modded

[opaque wharf]

I shall discourse with this instrument henceforth.

[olive sable]

i just made a mistake and held myself accountable

not really any officicial trouble

[rigid snow]

officicial

[olive sable]

i still suck at typing

[rough bloom]

don't worry, your only real mistake is your choice of C++ code formatting style

[olive sable]

nah

[opaque wharf]

Fret not, for thy sole grievous error lieth in the selection of thine C++ code's formatting manner.

[olive sable]

i try to be serious for once and i immediatly get flamed for using the brackets again

[opaque wharf]

The brackets art of holy esteem.

[sage crag]

hey shouldnt this be

SamVanMaele
{
}

[olive sable]

you know what?

my name isnt in proper camelcase

but having the s not capitalized is weird

[rigid snow]

pascal case is more pog anyways

[opaque wharf]

Why dost thou employ the manner of camel case for the esteemed C++?

[rough bloom]

mine is wrong too, it should be snake case

[olive sable]

who is pascal???

[rough bloom]

fixed but now it looks weird

[olive sable]

huh

i htink naming conventiosn suck

[rigid snow]

pascal is a mathematician... oh wait you asked who is pascal, pascal is a programming language then

[olive sable]

not a single one that is aplicable for all situations

[opaque wharf]

Verily, I do find mine own inclination towards the serpentine case of naming convention, even in the realm of JavaScript.

[rigid snow]

i like whateverthiscaseiscalled

[olive sable]

i dont

[sage crag]

wrong

[rigid snow]

or, to be quite honest, i like this case way more

[olive sable]

what the fuck?

if i take over the world the first thing im banning is using weird symbols in variables

[opaque wharf]

Those poor non-latin script programmer

Wait a minute

The unfortunate artisans of the non-Latin script thusly beset

[olive sable]

there is a diffrence between non latin and whatever S Q U A R E is supposed to be

[opaque wharf]

Your font is not complete lmao

[rough bloom]

not using English for programming, including comments, is evil
I hate switching languages 5 times per line

[desert plaza]

binute*

[opaque wharf]

Well, let me introduce you to Chinese product

[olive sable]

imagine if i started programing in dutch? or better yet our local dialect

[opaque wharf]

Still waiting for those F day

[olive sable]

goto -> kjerekewere

[sage crag]

is the easiest way to distinguish programming beginners from more experienced programmers

more experienced programmers give up on their language and accept that the only jobs they can get use english codebases

[opaque wharf]

Experienced programmer will find dragons and leave a comment: "Beware of dragons"

[rough bloom]

those are fine since I never have to see the code
there are some actually good public repos that have Chinese all over the place but I can't read it so it is what it is

[sage crag]

elden ring

[rigid snow]

it is a new emoji

[opaque wharf]

Yeah, it can be even worse in embedded system where the "datasheet" is a mixed bag

[rigid snow]

like end of last year probably

[opaque wharf]

This is all the font that I ever need

Since I doubt I'll encounter cuneiform

[tender river]

i once saw a codebase using russian slang (the field names were exposed in some api endpoint)

if you're using russian at least be professional

[opaque wharf]

Yeah, turns out noto fonts does contains cuneiform

[olive sable]

is that egyptian?

[sage crag]

its cuneiform

[opaque wharf]

Ea-Nasir

[olive sable]

i need to google something

ohhh

mesopotomia

thats cool

[rigid snow]

{ "bablo": 239.80 }
``` or something

[tender river]

it used мыло

[rigid snow]

in relation to what, i'm unfamiliar

[tender river]

email

[rigid snow]

that's so 2006

[opaque wharf]

If my cyrilic reading is not wrong, that's milo?

[rigid snow]

[opaque wharf]

I can see the resemblance to email

[olive sable]

isnt the linux kernel filled with swearwords?
or am i misremembering?

[opaque wharf]

Don't know about the kernel code, but the mailing list sure does

[olive sable]

[opaque wharf]

https://github.com/arnoschutijzer/what-would-linus-torvalds-say

[flint dome]

that means.... soap?

[rigid snow]

it does, it's because it sounds similar, the meaning has nothing to do with it

[flint dome]

yeah no it doesnt make sense to me it does say milo

[slender harness]

Wait, I need this

[opaque wharf]

Lmao

[olive sable]

apparently the way you pronounce it sounds similair to the english word email???

[opaque wharf]

I think Sam need it more

[rigid snow]

no

[olive sable]

soap?

[rigid snow]

it's just linguistics

having ai linus swear at your patches

not soap

[olive sable]

ohh

do i care what linus has to say tho?

[rigid snow]

he's linus

[flint dome]

whats the proper context

[tender river]

its so stupid imagine someone using the word "bux" as the field for account balance

[rigid snow]

literally means email in early 2000's internet slang

the context does not matter

email

[flint dome]

huh

why did i not know this one

[tender river]

it also sounds extremely cringe nowadays (to me at least)

[rigid snow]

it totally does

[opaque wharf]

There are some other good stuff on the internet. Like Virtual Richard M. Stallman package on Arch Linux that is disappointed in you when you install something non-free. I forgot the name

[olive sable]

ye you're right, it sounds nothing alike.
my bad, i shouldnt trust googles summary ai stuff

[flint dome]

hmmm i know old songs and old history but not the old internet history of early russia
maybe i'll read more....

OR NOT i need to work i keep distracting myself

[tender river]

it has two matching consonants thats it

[flint dome]

wait how did it emerge then

[tender river]

its similar enough

[opaque wharf]

As with any slang, its just emerge from someone one day

[lament igloo]

I found out that if i use vercel too much, i might actually get billed

[tender river]

theres way more puzzling ones like why is @ called "dog"

[opaque wharf]

Use cloudflare worker if you're looking for cloud provider

[rigid snow]

е мэйл devolves into е мыл and then мыло is obvious
so just based off the sounds
probably

[opaque wharf]

They have quite generous free tier IMHO. But if you're not doing anything dynamic, just use GH pages. Or cloudflare is free too for static assets

[rare bramble]

made the gif -> avif converter into a repo:
https://github.com/juhotuho10/gif_to_avif
hope someone gets use from it

[lament igloo]

i tried cloudflare workers but none of the image wasm libraries i tried work because the image needs to be generated under 50ms AND the wasm must be small too

[flint dome]

ah ok i see

[olive sable]

@ in dutch is "monkeytail (diminutive)" cuz of the shape i think

[lament igloo]

And yes, im looking for dynamic image generation

For discord embed

[opaque wharf]

What image are you generating? Are you converting user requested image on-the-fly?

Ahhh

[tender river]

аська for icq doesnt sound cringe to me though maybe just because it was more commonly used than мыло, or because it doesnt reuse an existing word

[lament igloo]

https://354-five.vercel.app/api/timer

https://354-five.vercel.app/api/image?text=And_this_...

[olive sable]

neuro's birthday is like mariah carey, its still august bro chill

[opaque wharf]

I don't understand why you can't generate it under 50ms tho

That image looks very simple

[rigid snow]

that has ascended slang though, only overly pedantic people and those who aim to display their "level of wisdom" call it "at"

[opaque wharf]

Ohh

[lament igloo]

I thought the same
But that same image can take up to 1000ms to generate and has a 56% error rate

[rigid snow]

it is an existing name so it kinda does

[lament igloo]

Took a huge chunk of my time bruh

[opaque wharf]

I am too afraid to ask how did you generate it

[lament igloo]

I could have spent that time clipping but i spent it all trying to generate a good and fast image in cf workers ;_;

[rigid snow]

use satori, vercel's lib

[lament igloo]

EW

[rigid snow]

no it's actually exactly what you want

[lament igloo]

Thats the reason why the image generated in 1000ms

[rigid snow]

oh

damn

[opaque wharf]

Just use browser canvas then

And then use this
https://developers.cloudflare.com/browser-rendering/

[lament igloo]

is it much faster? What is this?

[opaque wharf]

Not as generous, but if the generation time can be cut down to < 1s it could still be worth it

[rigid snow]

so instead of literally rendering the image you're suggesting to screenshot a browser, might be better though

[opaque wharf]

Browser Rendering enables developers to programmatically control and interact with headless browser instances running on Cloudflare’s global network. This facilitates tasks such as automating browser interactions, capturing screenshots, generating PDFs, and extracting data from web pages.

[lament igloo]

Nah + it has limits sadly

[rigid snow]

but also this should not be a concern at all if cache headers are set up correctly

[lament igloo]

Really?

[opaque wharf]

It should be yeah

[rigid snow]

you don't need to generate a unique image for every request right?

[lament igloo]

Except for image?text=
I think its fine for the timer at least

[opaque wharf]

Cache header basically tells the browser to cache the response for the same request (usually GET)

[rigid snow]

oh

[opaque wharf]

The query params can be cached to IIRC

[rigid snow]

they do

[opaque wharf]

It depends on the caching strategy that you choose

[lament igloo]

Anyways
I just dont wanna use vercel anymore after knowing their limits

[opaque wharf]

Cloudflare won't bill you tho

[rigid snow]

honestly? just rent a vps

[opaque wharf]

They just stopped working

[opaque wharf]

Yeah this. Your use case is more suited to a VPS

[lament igloo]

No money
-# (Im not using youtube money)

In another server, ppl tell me to use vps too

[opaque wharf]

Oracle has free VPS

[rigid snow]

use a free one then, those exist too

[lament igloo]

Idk ab oracle... i took their free trial before...

[opaque wharf]

No, not free trial. Like literally free tier

[lament igloo]

Ill think ab it then

[opaque wharf]

There are other provider too of course

[rigid snow]

do they still have the 24gb arm one? idk because they deleted my account because of the country set

they did have that 3-4 years ago

[opaque wharf]

I hath resolved to return to this manner of speech anon.

Methinks they yet possess those relics.

[lament igloo]

Well, this sounds like a free trial but with extra steps

[rough bloom]

looks like they still do but it's often unavailable because they're out of capacity for the free tier
also they might kill your VPS if they don't think you're using it

GCP and AWS have free machines too but they're potato

[rigid snow]

yep

[lament igloo]

Is it enough for my case use at least?

[opaque wharf]

Eh, good enough for generating image

[rigid snow]

just ignore the credit

you still have an "always free" tier

[rough bloom]

probably, you could try it out
should be fine with caching

[opaque wharf]

You can do the funny and make cloudflare worker make request to the free VPS

[rigid snow]

[lament igloo]

Ok
and is it fine for the maze game?

[opaque wharf]

They only count cpu time so network request can be as long as you want (I think around 10s for free tier tho?)

[rough bloom]

idk if the latency will be good but it would work

[lament igloo]

if its like 420ms, i can deal wit it

[rigid snow]

we live in a society where you can scam corpos out of hundreds of dollars of ai compute but can't scam them out of $2 of cpu compute

[opaque wharf]

Oh yea, they don't have duration limit

[lament igloo]

Alr im gonna go sleep now
Cya guys

[opaque wharf]

So your request can even take 5m and cloudflare worker couldn't care less

[lament igloo]

It really is 10ms wtf

[opaque wharf]

10ms CPU time mind you

[rigid snow]

that's kinda a lot of cpu time yeah

[opaque wharf]

That is a VERY different metric

[lament igloo]

So i have under 10ms to generate an image using workers

[opaque wharf]

No, under 10ms is CPU time

[lament igloo]

For stable

[rigid snow]

rendering does take a lot of cpu time tho

[opaque wharf]

Where the CPU actually perform computation. As I said, you can do a funny as use the VPS as the rendering server

[rough bloom]

sadly most of the time spent generating an image is CPU time

[opaque wharf]

I am talking about using the VPS to generate the image still

So the web and static assets request are handled not by the VPS

[rigid snow]

||wait the macbook trackpad has a haptic motor in it, can i make it play a tune||

[lament igloo]

I dont really know if i can connect a domain to a vps so ill just...

1. Worker gets a request
2. Worker goes to VPS
3. VPS generates image
4. VPS sends image to worker
5. Worker outputs that

[rigid snow]

computed what have you done

[opaque wharf]

That is what I'm proposing yes

[olive sable]

it has WHAT?

[opaque wharf]

And you can use domain to connect to VPS

[flat sigil]

Ok tts is going through eleven labs im using open llm for my scripts. Should I go for a sassy yet kind personality for project Zelda?

[opaque wharf]

You know me and my cursed idea

[rigid snow]

yeah the clicks are fake, it detects the force you're pressing with and does a click if it's sufficient

since like 2015

[olive sable]

[rigid snow]

3d touch basically if you remember that

[opaque wharf]

And they're pretty dang good too

[olive sable]

i dont

[rigid snow]

^^^

[olive sable]

hmmm

[opaque wharf]

I honestly get fooled by the haptics and think it truly is a physical button click

[rigid snow]

i actually feel gross using non-apple laptops because of that

[olive sable]

ive never touched a macbook before but it just sounds a bit weird

[rigid snow]

clicking on this one is so sterile

if that makes sense? (it doesn't)

[olive sable]

i have no fuckign clue what you mean

[rigid snow]

i don't either tbh

[lament igloo]

.... its slow
takes more requests than usual
And relies on 2 services 😭

[rigid snow]

you don't need workers if you have a vps

[opaque wharf]

Think of it this way, if the VPS is kaputt, you'll still have a working web

[lament igloo]

True but vps...
I wonder if i need to do some node tomfoolery or smth

[opaque wharf]

Do you have laptop with trackpad? Have you tried pushing on the trackpad?

[olive sable]

i have

[rigid snow]

it is a very consistent trackpad, the clicking feels the exact same no matter where you actually click

[opaque wharf]

Then try comparing that sensation to touching a keyboard key for example

[rigid snow]

and it's HUGE

[lament igloo]

Ok gn fr

[olive sable]

im in

[rigid snow]

go to an apple store and just click the macbooks fr

[stark needle]

Sam became blue

[rigid snow]

sadly it seems to be an apple only thing (i heard some surface laptops had that as well tho?) because patents and licensing

[olive sable]

nearest apple store for me is in france so uh

i might just take your word for it

[rigid snow]

go to a generic tech store they will have an apple section then

[olive sable]

oh truw

wait a minute

frameworks has a seperate module for touchpads

[opaque wharf]

Greetings, fair soul, known by the moniker of Shadow.

[rigid snow]

from my experience that is a very common occurrence in countries where apple has no official stores

[olive sable]

could you potentially slot an apple touchpad into a frameworks laptop?

[rigid snow]

i've only been to an apple store once, and that was in the uk, even though i've been to a looot of countries

[olive sable]

im blue

[rigid snow]

[olive sable]

surely the apple touchpad doesn't use that weird of a protocol?

[rigid snow]

apple isn't the brand

they have cryptographically locked parts to motherboards in the past, and they still kinda do

what makes you think you'll be able to hack a part into something else

the touchbar is a separate case altogether because it's first and foremost a display

[olive sable]

"sensel" apparently makes haptic touchpads too, they're on some dell and lenovo laptops

[rigid snow]

i vaguely remember them being who apple licenses the tech from

but i may be wrong

[olive sable]

i think touchbar would be easy if you just treat it like a small touchscreen display like on a 2 in 1 laptop

[rigid snow]

but it's apple we're talking about

it runs its own firmware

[olive sable]

sensel noooo

[rigid snow]

iirc a full blown darwin kernel too

[tender river]

the pinephone modem runs linux

wouldnt be surprised if other phone modems run linux too

[rigid snow]

modems yeah

very common

[opaque wharf]

This is display/hid

[rigid snow]

yep

[opaque wharf]

Imagine a keyboard or mouse running linux

Or maybe not. I bet chay would find one lmao

[rigid snow]

probably will never happen, you at least want an rtos on those

[opaque wharf]

Linux does have RT_PREEMPT patch

[rigid snow]

still why would you need linux

wait i know

if someone made like a stream deck fused with a keyboard

[opaque wharf]

I WOULD ASK THE SAME ABOUT DARWIN?

[rigid snow]

i didn't decide that dude i'm not apple

[opaque wharf]

I know...

[rigid snow]

also apple i don't think gives a shit about input latency on the touchbar or whatever

[opaque wharf]

Anytime chay typing after cursed discussion I am afraid of whats to come

[tender river]

NT 10.0

[rigid snow]

hell yeah cram that shit into my xbox controller

[rough bloom]

it should run Windows instead

[rigid snow]

what the fuck

[tender river]

[opaque wharf]

Okay this is officially the most cursed thing ever period

[rigid snow]

i don't think public apis will allow me to have actual fun with the haptic motor and i can't find any private apis online

maaan i don't feel like reversing macos internals again

shit takes so much effort

[opaque wharf]

Bro, S L E E P

[rigid snow]

it's not that late

[stark needle]

Sleep

[rigid snow]

no

[opaque wharf]

O brethren, the morn doth grace this realm, retire thee to slumber.

[rigid snow]

i am consuming ice cream

[opaque wharf]

Great, now I want some

[rigid snow]

shouldn’t have told me to go to sleep then

[olive sable]

hello

the vulkan tutorial website is down

this is the worst thing that has happened today

it is also the only thing that has happened today since its 20 past midnight

[midnight sigil]

I choose both 👍

[rotund glade]

i ended up learning vs code and it still feels a litlty janky but its doing alright lol

[midnight sigil]

now install 20 extensions to make it feel better

[midnight sigil]

apparently I can't compile a program under 10ms

[opaque wharf]

What tf are you doing on the poor free tier cloudflare worker

[midnight sigil]

github workers allow me to do virtually anything tho

and free

[opaque wharf]

Github... worker?

You mean actions?

[midnight sigil]

ye

guthub action runners

[opaque wharf]

Oh yeah, that is normal. It's the intended use cases

Running a webserver on the GH actions on the other hand...

[midnight sigil]

possible though

[opaque wharf]

GPT can hack you

[dark axle]

holy rimworld in the schedule, is this gonna get used i wonder??

[reef star]

Man one thing I miss about programming in Roblox is that it was easy to program things in such a way that they'd be compatible without actually being programmed for each other
For example, I made a module that adjusts lighting settings while the camera is underwater, and since I didn't want it to break if anything else messed with the lighting settings, I made it able to listen and account for those changes

In Godot there doesn't seem to be any way to listen for changes in a node property which is so annoying

[raven dock]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1300180990957719614/1401747527988150382/Windsurf_Fu6KJEWcdS.png?ex=6891669d&is=6890151d&hm=c48db751d8c7b1178b94993ccc36df7b131f4cbeeeade12e04dc270062143f62&

[amber fractal]

First illegal instruction error I've gotten earlier today. Feeling like a god over my system, except I am horrible at having it do what it can do.

-# It was AVX-512 on a 12th gen intwl

[opaque sigil]

oh yeah wasn't there something along the lines of the e-cores not being able to do avx-512 but p-cores do?

I got to spend pretty much the entire day trying to figure out why wireplumber wasn't doing what I told it to do, turns out the graph became too large and race conditions happened

[amber fractal]

Yeeeeeeeep, so I only get AVX2 on my main system. I do have some 11 gen systems so if I really need it then I can use it.

[opaque sigil]

tbf you could pin specific cores to the process but I guess that's kinda scuffed

[amber fractal]

Nah, Intel opted to go nuclear and remove the instruction at first from the bytecode then completely shorting the circuits

[nocturne olive]

No, AVX512 is turned off UEFI-side on basically all motherboards and UEFIs, because it's not tested on e-cores

[patent walrus]

photoshop scripting

[faint sandal]

[midnight sigil]

@opaque wharf

[rough bloom]

awa

[midnight sigil]

I guess I made a working translation of the original javascript code to cpp

lemme just make more awalang scripts to verify every instruction works

ok it doesn't work with labels and jmp

[patent walrus]

this is using extendscript

It is a dialect of the ECMAScript 3

amazing

[rough bloom]

ECMAScript 3? Dialect?

how do they manage to do this

[patent walrus]

Adobe

their photoshop cc js reference pdf is beautiful and even their vscode debugging extension has a beautiful readme

but man

working on what's essentially ES3 from 1999

is just... something else

[opaque sigil]

Is this cc photoshop

[patent walrus]

yep

[opaque sigil]

[patent walrus]

okay okay i no longer have to program like a fucking caveman i found a newer way of scripting

apparently there's two types of scripts for photoshop: extendscript (what i was trying) and UXP (think chrome extension but for cc stuff) https://developer.adobe.com/photoshop/uxp/2022/

i've never been happier to see json

[rough bloom]

UXP is powered by a modern JavaScript engine
modern

[midnight sigil]

I'm guessing the .pop() is actually unwanted behaviour, the topmost bubble actually gets popped if printed, which is not stated in the specifications

Imma just fix that

AWA5.0 is perfect but JavaScript isn't

[rough bloom]

it is stated in the specifications that it pops the bubble

[midnight sigil]

oh

I'm just blind then

[rough bloom]

interestingly for pr1 it only states that it pops double bubbles, but the behavior is likely supposed to be the same as prn

[midnight sigil]

yep they are the same

the author probably doesn't want to spend time fixing this side effect and just make it a feature

classic mojang

[rough bloom]

oh, there is a duplicate instruction, convenient
it's fine then

[patent walrus]

and there we have it

[midnight sigil]

[opaque wharf]

You held her captive?

[patent walrus]

something like that

[opaque wharf]

[faint sandal]

[hoary lion]

Neuro is going to be anywhere where custom script exists

[opaque wharf]

Roblox?

[hoary lion]

Plz no thi

Anything but that

[vagrant grove]

Would anyone know how to explain why this phenomenon works?

the website https://gametora.com/ is broken on iOS devices at the moment and doesn’t load correctly. If I access the website through one of those proxy websites like https://proxyium.com, I can get it to display properly. I’m not sure why this works though.

[sage crag]

proxies will often render websites on their servers

its possible that it's being rendered on the proxy

[opaque wharf]

That is one weird issue to have (zstd not being supported)

[vagrant grove]

That was my original thought, but if I tried to use google translate as a pseudo-proxy the same wouldn’t apply

Though given that isn’t its intended use, differences may apply.

[midnight sigil]

should I do error handling for AWA5.0? It certainly breaks the standard, but not doing it feels wrong

[opaque wharf]

AWA5.0 doesn't have errors. Someone is just programming incorrectly. So you can berate the programmer instead

[vagrant grove]

Just put more AWAs and it’ll fix it

[rough bloom]

it's undefined behavior, so you can do whatever you want

[midnight sigil]

[rough bloom]

"no specification"

[midnight sigil]

[rough bloom]

I guess it's technically unspecified behavior instead of undefined behavior? but who cares, same thing

[opaque wharf]

No, it means the programmer is not programming correctly, therefore not an error

If chay can define a valid program is whatever the compiler accepts, then AWA5.0 by definition does not contain error. Any "error" means it is not AWA5.0 but a dialect of it

[opaque sigil]

time for day 2 of trying to get pipewire to behave (this is a cry for help)

[opaque wharf]

What do you need it to do?

It outputs audio just fine for me

But can't make me food tho

[rough bloom]

pipewire
tbh whatever you're trying to do it is probably still better than whatever came before it

[opaque sigil]

lemme see if i can find the diagram i made

[opaque wharf]

When a diagram is mentioned in #programming you just know its gonna be a banger

[sage crag]

uwa

diagram

[rough bloom]

good luck

[opaque wharf]

Bro is taking the pipewire name seriously

[opaque sigil]

i should be able to do this with a couple loopback and filter-chain modules

emphasis on should

also i'm now a certified wireplumber hater

[opaque wharf]

How would you separate browser and yt music

[opaque sigil]

oh idk about yt-music i don't actually use it

[midnight sigil]

lol

[opaque wharf]

I mean, I guess you could always run 2 instance but that is cursed still

[opaque sigil]

not sure why i put that there

i assume there's a standalone version surely

yeah looks like it exists

[opaque wharf]

Nothing that is good anyway IMHO

[opaque sigil]

probably not

that's a problem for future me

worst case just use a separate browser for yt music

[opaque wharf]

Ye, the 2 instance I was talking about. By the looks of it, it should be achievable with 6 loopback

Maybe even 5 since the system is default

[midnight sigil]

I decided to make errors warnings

[opaque wharf]

Pipewire docs hates mobile user

[midnight sigil]

just to let the user know something might be not intended, but it's not error

[opaque wharf]

As the spec intended lol

[vagrant grove]

If you can make it work all the more power to you. I’m lazy and just use obs and hardware loopback to handle my mic fx chain

[midnight sigil]

I typo

I dumb

I fix

[opaque wharf]

[uneven pulsar]

i some times ask my self

[sage crag]

awa

[uneven pulsar]

why is there a limit to recursioning

WHY?

[shadow sinew]

Stack size

[rough bloom]

there isn't if you use the heap

or if you just increase the stack size I guess

[uneven pulsar]

can i?

[shadow sinew]

Depends on your platform

[opaque sigil]

you can but realistically if you run into the stack limit you have bigger problems

[rough bloom]

yeah, using the heap is better

especially because you don't know how large your stack has to be in advance

[midnight sigil]

lie

it pushes an empty bubble with no meaning it merges two simple bubble together

[opaque sigil]

mfw windows with their 1MiB stack or whatever it was

[uneven pulsar]

i am forced to use a 2013 MacBook air

4gb

[rough bloom]

it's not empty, it's a double bubble containing both simple bubbles, but yeah, still wrong

[midnight sigil]

smh specifications being wrong

[rough bloom]

the implementation makes more sense than the specification to me here
why tf would you want this to add

but the spec is always right

[midnight sigil]

👍 I follow the spec

[rough bloom]

so apparently all the existing implementations have decided to adopt this bug as a feature and decided that the spec should change instead
but whoever maintains the spec didn't actually do that

[sage crag]

every call requires a stack frame, which is part of the call stack stack. the stack frame contains stuff like return address, and function local variables. when the function has ended, the stack frame is "popped" and the memory is freed.

when you do recursion, the stack frames can only be destroyed after the final recursion, so you continue to use more and more stack memory allocating stack frames.

the stack memory limit for a program is generally finite and allocated to the program when it is created.

[midnight sigil]

[tender river]

dont think so awa

[sage crag]

awa

[worldly plank]

Is Visual Studio (possibly including the file you are working on) showing up in the Activity tab of one's profile intended behavior?

[tender river]

because the computer has to remember what to do after the inner function returns, and when you recurse further it has to remember even more

[midnight sigil]

Bandwagon effect

[opaque wharf]

I mean...

The original spec document itself is not owned by the original writer

[rough bloom]

FLAVR
how did that stream end up spawning a programming language (presumably through some indirections, but still)

[rough bloom]

it's fine, the rights to the spec don't matter
someone just has to update it and put it in the repo and wherever else it is shared

[opaque wharf]

Well, FLAVR was a fictional thing made real by fans, much like melba toast

[opaque sigil]

why is mpv the only process that seems to refuse being caught and sent to my system sink

[rough bloom]

I know
but it's supposed to be Vtubers, not programming languages

[opaque wharf]

It's just a homage to the company like AwaSCII lol

The FLAVR thing comes up from VTuber within the same company after all

[midnight sigil]

well at least I know my warning thing works

[opaque wharf]

[midnight sigil]

the script works on the original interpreter

it's probably another undefined features difference again

mine just ignore all instructions with undefined behaviour, the original interpreter acts dependently

[rough bloom]

modify both interpreters to export the bubble abyss after every instruction, see where they diverge

(assuming you don't know where the issue is yet)

[midnight sigil]

:mhm:

[olive sable]

Goodmorning

The vulkan tutorial website is hopefully back up

we love the self-destruct function vkDestroyDevice(device, nullptr);

[opaque wharf]

Plot twist, the GPU short circuited after that

[olive sable]

if (getenv("ANDROID_PROPERTY_WORKSPACE"))
{
    // running under Android 7 or older
    std::cout << "bro your phone is ass get a new one";
    vkDestroyDevice(device, nullptr);
}

[desert plaza]

[midnight sigil]

apparently javascript(or V8's fault) doesn't allow me to just stacktrace.push(instructionName, bubbleAbyss]);

[desert plaza]

that font

[midnight sigil]

yuh

[olive sable]

are you one of those people that puts their phone's font as cursive?

[midnight sigil]

yet I can print them one by one

[midnight sigil]

no

[desert plaza]

reject javascript, write machine code by hand

[olive sable]

then why this?

[midnight sigil]

windows default font for chinese users

chrome pick that font up for devtools

[olive sable]

you're for real???

damn

[midnight sigil]

ye

it looks okay-ish for chinese characters... or maybe I got used to it

MingLiU is acceptable

[olive sable]

even trhe chinese characters are pixely?

[midnight sigil]

the pixely is just because the text is small tho

we have anti-aliasing afterall

[olive sable]

that does not look anti-aliased

[midnight sigil]

cuz the text is like 1mm x 2mm on my screen

[olive sable]

hmm

[midnight sigil]

here I zoom in

[olive sable]

ye that looks fine

i guess small text just doesnt get anti-aliased

[desert plaza]

well, you can't anti-alias if you don't have enough pixels

[olive sable]

anti-aliasing should be allowed to intrude on the pixels next to the text tho, i would have at least some aliasing if i made it

idk

there's also subpixel anti-aliasing

[midnight sigil]

it's performance costy

[olive sable]

fair

[midnight sigil]

why would you want subpixel anti-aliasing, for a font, in devtools

[olive sable]

i do graphics, i like it when things look good

[rough bloom]

subpixel anti-aliasing looks bad
grayscale anti-aliasing looks better but kinda needs a hidpi display

[midnight sigil]

yea subpixel aa in some conditions looks too blurred

[rough bloom]

yeah, making it work properly is complicated because it depends on where the subpixels are physically located on the panel

[olive sable]

true

[rough bloom]

and even if it is you still get random colors on the edges of the glyphs

[midnight sigil]

time to get a 4k monitor

[olive sable]

ye that gif works on pc but not on my phone

subpixel layout must be diffrent

[trim valve]

annoyingly windows has slightly different letter spacing for me between subpixel and grayscale

which is fine if I use use my laptop's display, because that handles grayscale just fine

but when you plug in an external monitor stuff gets weird

[rough bloom]

Windows

not like Linux is much better probably

AFAIK the only platform with somewhat sane handling of fonts and text rendering is Mac

but I don't have one

[olive sable]

if i had to geuss android is probably the worst one

just cuz smaller screen and stuff

[rough bloom]

smartphones are usually fine I think

they almost always have high dpi screens

[olive sable]

you have a point there

aight, my 2nd choise is vr

[trim valve]

I must be doing something wrong

my github action keeps refusing to cache anything

though tbh I might just not bother with cache conidering its like a 7 minute cold run

[tender river]

it says the cache is already there so it doesnt need to add anything

[trim valve]

that's the fun part

its currently:

• loading an empty cache
• not saving the items added to the cache after the run

[tender river]

bwa

[olive sable]

bwa

[trim valve]

bwa

[midnight sigil]

bwa

[small anvil]

bwa

[stray dragon]

bwa

[tame scroll]

bwa

[rare bramble]

bwa

[sage crag]

bwa

[brisk laurel]

Just a picture

[olive sable]

uh

sure

[brisk laurel]

its like this but not a mac

[olive sable]

does it have to be on a table or is anything fine?

Is this fine?

[stark needle]

Laptop

Sam if you didn't know, that device is called a laptop

It's a mobile portable Version of a desktop pc

It differs from a desktop pc in that it has a battery, a keyboard and mouse and a camera

A key aspect is that most parts are soldered so it's not easily upgradeable

[pale current]

Depends on the laptop

My HP from years ago has an upgradeable CPU

[flint dome]

most old laptops do

[stark needle]

The laptop portrayed is likely a Gigabyte G5 KC-5US1130SH Gaming Laptop and features an Intel Core i5 processor and an NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 graphics card

[flint dome]

wtf gigabyte makes laptops too

[pale current]

Yes

[flint dome]

i thought they stuck to motherboards

damn guess i learn something new everyday

[pale current]

Wrong fan holes design

[stark needle]

Gigabyte also makes relatively good monitors

[pale current]

And wrong hinge design

[flint dome]

that i know atleast

[stark needle]

Top 10 saddest moments of 2025

[pale current]

Also that laptop was bought in Germany

Most likely

Qwertz

[stark needle]

It does have äö and ü

[olive sable]

its a gigabytye g5 ge, has an i5 12500h and a 3050 with a measly 4gb of vram and 16gb of ddr4 3200mhz soddim

also, it was only 600 euro cuz of the qwertz keyboard

someone returned it making it cheaper for me

[pale current]

GIGABYTE G5 KF5

[olive sable]

no

Gigabyte G5 GE-51DE263SD

[pale current]

Right

I was going off the trackpad lol

[olive sable]

since laptop prices have dropped again its only 500 bucks on amazon

but that is with 8gb ram, i upgraded mine to 16gb

[pale current]

Should go minimum 32

[olive sable]

im not made of money

[pale current]

Is it ddr4

[olive sable]

for blender and such i just use my desktop with 64Gb of ram

[pale current]

3200?

[olive sable]

the laptop is 3200 yes

[pale current]

Oh wait you're not us

[olive sable]

only 2 slots, soddim

[olive sable]

no im in belgium

[pale current]

Right

Hence the qwertz

[olive sable]

its not specifically bought in Germany, Belgium has a German part

[pale current]

I can't attach images

I can do stickers tho

[opaque sigil]

stickers are just big emotes not attachments

[pale current]

Right, but they're bigger than emotes

Which means time to send a screenshot as a sticker

[olive sable]

[pale current]

[pale current]

Do link embeds work I wonder

[olive sable]

no

[pale current]

Of course not

Sadge

[olive sable]

https://tenor.com/view/neurosama-neuro-sama-gif-4374779630001464375

[olive sable]

you can also just buy the entire botttom shell for 140 bucks

even with the stickers on it

that sticker is i7 tho, i have i5

might be handy to have a qwerty keyboard, but not in the budget rn

i ported the vulkan from glfw to sdl
also got some cool framenumbers now

[olive sable]

sometimes i wonder if its chheaper to buy the thing whole or to buy replacement parts from aliexpress

[opaque wharf]

Buying it whole but secondhand

[rigid snow]

Chatting SDL_SetWindowTitle(pWindow, "FPS: 11111");

[olive sable]

nah i wishj

it took 10min for it to reach 11111

it did 11110 and 11112 about 20 times each tho

[rigid snow]

you really are autistic

[stark needle]

[opaque wharf]

And you're not?

[rigid snow]

i’m not

somehow

what the fuck it’s almost evening already

i got sick the first time in like 3+ years i forgot how much this sucks

[opaque wharf]

Must've been because of those ice cream

[olive sable]

you say that as if you didnt believe it the first time

[tender river]

i somehow doubt tlp will help me save battery life

[olive sable]

40% cpu usage total

[opaque wharf]

How

[rigid snow]

it’s not a cold tho

[opaque wharf]

I just used power-profile-daemon on arch and never had issue

[opaque wharf]

Then it must've been caused by all of those cursed project

[rigid snow]

i mean there are different levels to it

[opaque wharf]

NOOOOOO

[rigid snow]

correct answer

[desert plaza]

damn, i should have voted awa to tie it

[opaque wharf]

I've made the poll and therefore I decided the results are rigged

[rigid snow]

esoteric languages suck

[desert plaza]

gasp

i will have you know brainfuck does not suck

[opaque wharf]

Esoteric language is just another form of machine code

[desert plaza]

+[->,.----------<+>]

[rigid snow]

fun is banned from now on

[desert plaza]

https://tenor.com/view/emoji-crying-emoji-gif-8626349402912892862

[opaque wharf]

I need a strong coffee

[rigid snow]

i don’t actually find them fun though, i see languages as tools to achieve an end result and the experience of using them as such directly defines how good a language is for me

this is why i like react

[opaque wharf]

Strictly speaking, hblang is just as esoteric as AWA5.0

[rigid snow]

how

[opaque wharf]

Esoteric:

intended for or likely to be understood by only a small number of people with a specialized knowledge or interest

[rigid snow]

i mean hblang does not fall under that, it is very readable and understandable

[patent walrus]

could be more!

[rigid snow]

at least compared to awa or bf or insert whatever esoteric lang

and in general, at no point was i ever looking at hblang code and thinking “wtf am i looking at”

[opaque wharf]

Nonono, Sam needs the number to be good number

[lament igloo]

how it feels when shit breaks on prod

[opaque wharf]

Hmm, depends on what you define as understood I guess

[rigid snow]

i believe calling hblang esoteric is plain wrong

[opaque wharf]

Well, if we use the definition of esolang then yeah

An esoteric programming language (sometimes shortened to esolang) is a programming language designed to test the boundaries of computer programming language design, as a proof of concept, as software art, as a hacking interface to another language (particularly functional programming or procedural programming languages), or as a joke.

hblang is not esolang in that sense

But esoteric IMHO

[olive sable]

is it that time?

the time to overclock my cpu?

[sage crag]

i dont think hblang qualifies as any of those

[opaque wharf]

Which is why I said it is not esolang in that sense

[opaque sigil]

there's nothing esoteric about hblang

[opaque wharf]

But it is esoteric

For now at least

[rigid snow]

it isn't meant to be understood by those in the know, that's not the intention and not the state of things

[tender river]

bespoke? sure, esoteric? nope

[opaque wharf]

Ah that is a better description yes

[sage crag]

hblang is much too close to typical c-style programming to be considered esoteric

[tender river]

just call it "staged C"

[opaque wharf]

C with sane comptime macro

[rough bloom]

with little knowledge of both Zig and hblang: hblang seems close to Zig

[small anvil]

i sure do love pointer ownership

was compiling a fuck ton of libraries when i had this specific error, it was an instantiation error

only to find out i wasnt using std::move

its fixed now, just gotta add some unimplemented methods now

[opaque sigil]

i swear to god, why is pipewire so freaking impatient
killing nodes it deems as idle before they're then supposed to be used to establish a link

[sage crag]

very close. it was closer to c in the past but as more comptime features got added it gravitated closer to zig in syntax and usage.

[olive sable]

is this enough? (resizing the window breaks the command buffers, its not rendering anything)

[sage crag]

arguably in terms of pure distance from c, its further than zig because it doesnt borrow the functionality of libc or rely on clang

[rough bloom]

probably helps that your compiler guy seems to really like Zig too
abandoning the Rust implementation and all that

[small anvil]

i think you could pull out an extra thousand or so if you do some more optimisations, although im not sure how you did your implementation

[sage crag]

it was definitely the right choice, the rust impl was horribly broken

[tender river]

rewrite was the right choice, but it being broken was not rust's fault

[rough bloom]

yeah, but I mean the choice of language
could've just fixed or rewritten the Rust impl instead

[small anvil]

hblang seems very promising, i really cant wait to try it out when the compiler is smoothened out

[sage crag]

yes

[opaque wharf]

Says the one with broken SAT solver in rust

[tender river]

go on write a fast and correct sat solver in zig

[olive sable]

im kinda running out of optimizations.
i could do multithreading maybe?

[sage crag]

this is true. compiler dev got fed up with rust mostly.
hblang doesnt pull from any external dependencies (one exception atm) and so the codebase ended up getting messy.

[small anvil]

multithreading would be nice, im not sure how you would implement it, but make sure not to run into any race conditions if you're accessing or setting values

[sage crag]

the overhead of multithreading is going to be greater than what you are already doing most likely

[small anvil]

thats true

[olive sable]

ye

[sage crag]

there arent that many codegen bugs any more

[small anvil]

thats promising

[olive sable]

i already said no when installing the "app"

[small anvil]

you should let me know when you guys have most things finished, i could try to make a couple of native applications with it

hblang game engine

[sage crag]

currently most bugs are missing features or codepaths which are gated by explicit panics. i havent had to debug a bad codegen issue for a while.

[small anvil]

hblang compiler in hblang

[opaque wharf]

The fruit of bugging god of mischief

[olive sable]

the day i make anything in hblang is the day i will get thrown into molten lava for my crimes against the council

[sage crag]

that is planned yes

[small anvil]

pull a rosyln

[sage crag]

its needed for ableos to be able to run its own programs

[small anvil]

yeah thats fair

[sage crag]

https://git.ablecorp.eu/mlokis/hblang/src/branch/main/examples/raylib

[small anvil]

oooooo

[sage crag]

its probable that you can transpile zig to hblang. that's part of the reason no external dependencies are being used.

[tender river]

i have

[sage crag]

yes am aware

[sage crag]

it may not even require parsing the zig past identifying symbols, considering how similar they are

[midnight sigil]

this might be too much

and I have typo

funny how I can only find my mistakes after posting screenshots here

[olive sable]

i was wondering why i was getting

output/a.exe
failed to create instance!

nvidia apparently blocks all vulkan things from launching when its downloading drivers.
not even installing yet, just downloading

[opaque sigil]

please name your executable i beg

[opaque wharf]

Push to gh and I'll see where I can help

[olive sable]

to what tho?

[opaque sigil]

literally anything but a pls

[olive sable]

okay

[desert plaza]

exe.exe

[olive sable]

vulkan.exe it is

[opaque wharf]

b.exe

[rough bloom]

sam-game-engine-vk.exe

[small anvil]

application.exe

very mischievous name

[rough bloom]

I am too sane and reasonable for this chat

[opaque wharf]

Does windows support unicode on their filename?

[small anvil]

you know what

just name it CON

and crash the whole system

you cant even do that anymore iirc

[small anvil]

i think they do

[tender river]

i configured koreader but the ereader's suspend is a bit broken

[opaque wharf]

There you have it. 😎.exe

[small anvil]

🔥.exe

[opaque wharf]

That would be toast

[tender river]

it's okay i'm close to solving it hopefully

[small anvil]

🔥 as in it melts your GPU cables

[olive sable]

no

[small anvil]

aw

[midnight sigil]

I'll do that tmr, whenever I got an actual working interpreter, since I'm going to head to sleep now

[olive sable]

if it does i will remove it

[small anvil]

good night!

good luck on ur interpreter

[olive sable]

no unicode filenames on my christian windows install

[midnight sigil]

also some cleanup is needed, my code is really really messy and they are fucking junks

should I add comments too?

[small anvil]

"// does some stuff"

but yeah, if you're planning on releasing it, its best to make comments

just for clarity

especially for yourself

[tender river]

// adds 2 and 5
add2And5() { return 2 + 5; }

[small anvil]

i have a bad habit of forgetting what a function does, even though i made it myself cause my code is spagetti

[glass flower]

add comments but they change the variable under it to a random number +-1 of the original

[small anvil]

usually my comments just insult my code and how bad it is

and how much of a nightmare it is to use

[tender river]

??? i rebooted the ereader and the linux tty is now white?

[tender river]

bwwa

[olive sable]

bwa

[rough bloom]

bw

[opaque wharf]

awa

[midnight sigil]

actually, now I'm half asleep, I realized I do have a private repo, I made it public now.
https://github.com/anfogy/AWA5.0-Interpreter

it has nothing but a hello world

I mean, it works

it's time to farm my commit and PR count

[cosmic sphinx]

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2506.15692

huge or huge?

[opaque wharf]

What is the difference between this and reinforcement learning?

[rough bloom]

seems more like yet another RAG agent paper to me
it reminds me of AlphaEvolve except this is less general

[cosmic sphinx]

honestly, from my poor understanding, this is quite more complex and different in the process itself

[rough bloom]

this doesn't do any learning it seems

[opaque wharf]

I see

[cosmic sphinx]

its more about finding the best solution for the given task through repeated process of evaluation and modification of code

[tender river]

cool looking entries from ioccc:

• linux emulator https://github.com/ioccc-src/winner/blob/master/2024/macke/prog.c
• deceptively small program https://github.com/ioccc-src/winner/blob/master/2024/cable2/prog.c
• wordle solver https://github.com/ioccc-src/winner/blob/master/2024/burton/prog.c
• moon phase printer https://github.com/ioccc-src/winner/blob/master/2024/kurdyukov1/prog.c

theres other impressive ones like an interpreter for a subset of js or llm inference code

[mighty thorn]

Breaking Microsoft terms of service rn

How are you?

[opaque sigil]

good to know that empty filter chains are a nono i guess

[olive sable]

there is a song that has been in my head for nearly 5 years and i finally found it

amyways the vulkan is going

Which PBO is the best one?

There are 5 diffrent ones

[desert plaza]

https://tenor.com/view/i-don't-know-idk-idk-about-that-gif-7336250873949261946

[rough bloom]

Eco-Mode 45W

sounds like peak performance

[olive sable]

Im sure temps will drom at least

From 50 to maybe 40

At 45W the fps is a lot less stable but it gets to 8-9k

Multi core sufers the most from this anyways

105W/16 cores is 6.5675W per core

So ye a single core isnt even using that much

Imma try enhanced 3 since 4 probably maxes out everything and i dont want to fry my cpu

ye im still just capped at 11K fps

except now im not reaching 100% cpu usage on the vulkan threads

[vale python]

As programmers let me ask you

[cosmic sphinx]

@sick owl how big is the model

[olive sable]

ask

[vale python]

Why are texture sizes so high now and why arent developers optimizing it as well as polygon count

Is it because of the expectations of gamers being too high

Can you even optimize texture size

[olive sable]

well, high res textures look good

and the performance difrence isnt that much

[vale python]

Wouldn't it be smarter to utilize texture fedility more

[rough bloom]

you can compress textures
but I think usually you just ship smaller textures too and make it a setting

[olive sable]

yes

[vale python]

Unreal was the first to use it right

Texture fedility

[olive sable]

ye i dont use unreal so idk what you're talking baout

[vale python]

Unreal engine way back in the day used texture fedility to save on disc space where it replaces a texture further away with a lower resolution one and when you got closer it would show the fully detailed version

It was a cool affect that helped keep the game nice but also not intense on the pc

Or console

[olive sable]

that is already used

we call those mipmaps

they kinda look like this

[sick owl]

Bout 40 gigs

Unquantized that is

[olive sable]

with anisotropic filtering you get unven resolution mipmaps too

this looks better whn viewing a texture from the side

right one has better clarity in the distance

this does save disk space, it uses more vram tho

[rough bloom]

pretty sure that the general idea is to have LODs (varying levels of detail) for objects
this can apply to both meshes and textures
the further away an object is the less detail it needs, so you can unload the high detail version and replace it with a smaller low detail one

[olive sable]

yep

ussualy you dont really want to unload the old lod

when you're on lod 1 you want to have 2 already loaded in as a bg task so you dont have a stutter when changin lod's

3 and 4 can be unloaded tho

[rough bloom]

well yeah, of course you'd load them asynchronously

[olive sable]

[rough bloom]

blocking rendering for that would be insane

[olive sable]

for some things like 32K textures vram might be a concern, but i think meshes are the bigger problems

[rough bloom]

it's mostly for huge open world games AFAIK

where fully loading everything on the map is infeasible

[olive sable]

yes

indeed

i think breath of the wild even changes trees into flat images if they're too far

[rough bloom]

Nintendo Switch 🥔

[olive sable]

billboards, also known as impostors

[olive sable]

for example, resident evil 4 remake, leon has this many vertices

Head: 54,348
Eyes: 10,320
Pants: 53,505
Hands: 24,582
Buttons: 2,436
Shirt: 18,378
Jacket: 115,986 + 5,619 (outlines)
Hair: 11,484 + 80,565 (two layers)
Eyebrows & Eyelids: 16,194
Shoes: 9,348

thats 402.765 vertices

[rough bloom]

for characters that's normal, yeah

[olive sable]

he probably is the most high res of all the characters since hes on screen for 90% of the game

but still

lets say a vec3 of data for positions
vec3 normals
vec2 texture pos
vec3 tangent
vec3 bittangent
for each vertex

probably more tbh, i should see what shaders they're using

hmmm

[sage crag]

vulkan awa

[rough bloom]

textures seem pretty hard to beat in size
a 4096x4096 RGB texture is already ~50MB (assuming full 24-bit pixels, no chroma subsampling or anything)

[olive sable]

ye but i would hope they reuse those textures

[uneven pulsar]

Wassup

[rough bloom]

I would hope they reuse meshes too

[olive sable]

for object sure, but environment you cant really