programming

[opaque sigil]

at which point you may as well make it a 3d array

[olive sable]

not really, you can just do index = x + GRIDSIZE * y

[opaque sigil]

yeah and what are you going to store at that index

a vector

[olive sable]

oh thats what you mean

yes

i think so

[opaque sigil]

i guess it's still probably worth it

[rough bloom]

having a huge array full of small vectors does not sound very good
then again if it's small enough it might just not matter

if you have a limit on the maximum depth you could use a 3D array though, as Toast said

[opaque sigil]

if you feel generous you could just make a N * M * (N*M) array

[olive sable]

there is no official limit but there most likely wont be more than 10 in a single array

unless i add a fuckton of npc's

in the python engine i was using 500 * 500 * depth

so a casual 2.5k

nah i forgot how to math

250k

[rough bloom]

use a 3D array and overflow to another instance of the array if necessary
could make the overflow arrays sparse too

[opaque sigil]

what's the grid for again i forgot

[olive sable]

collision

[opaque sigil]

within a single frame?

[olive sable]

yes?

[opaque sigil]

when in doubt preallocate a 1gb array, ought to be enough for anyone

[olive sable]

i was doing some weird shit in python. didnt perform too bad for a 2d list of 250k

[opaque sigil]

i know nothing about games but i feel like there has to be a better way

[olive sable]

there is

octree

[rough bloom]

memory accesses spread out as widely as possible

[warped narwhal]

add -MMD and -MP to your compiler flags, add DEPS = $(OBJS:.o=.d) after OBJS and add -include $(DEPS) after your OUTPUT var.

This will fix a bug where you change a header, but make doesn't recompile the cpp files that depend on the header.

[olive sable]

never had that bug lamo

[warped narwhal]

oh I just noticed you are hardcoding all of your objects

[olive sable]

yes

[warped narwhal]

you still have the bug though, you just won't have noticed it.

and it's a bigger problem since you probably put definitions in your headers

[olive sable]

some iirc

[rough bloom]

might not exist right now because there just aren't that many objects, but yeah, maintaining this would be an issue once there are transitive dependencies on headers

[olive sable]

fixed???

[warped narwhal]

[olive sable]

[olive sable]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octree

[warped narwhal]

is this for collision?

[olive sable]

yes

i just dont really understand how it works so never bothered with it

[warped narwhal]

unless your objects are always unit aligned, a BVH might be a better bet

[olive sable]

BVH

lemme google

Basisvoorziening Handhaving

oh ye bounding volume hierarchy, the shit RT cores use

[warped narwhal]

it's definitely tough to implement, but man is it fast when you do

[olive sable]

i have no clue what im looking at

imma ask chatgpt

[warped narwhal]

boxes within boxes within boxes within within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes within boxes

[opaque sigil]

was bvh where you recursively partition a set of objects into 2 boxes

[warped narwhal]

close

thats a bsp

[olive sable]

that just sounds like a ∞D array

[warped narwhal]

it's closer to a tree than an array, but essentially yes.

[olive sable]

it uses AABB's which is what im using rn from the gltf file data, sounds good

[sage crag]

https://youtu.be/VAola3Mc7Qo

[olive sable]

so basicly to bvh i have my range of collision, so [playerpos, playerpos+movevec]
and that gets used to prune the unneeded tree branches till we have the needed objects left

i wonder how they should be grouped tho

a first step would be to group all the boundingboxes of a single mesh toghether, but then what?

[worldly plank]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tjtc9rH0QMA

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/i9SqBZcE8RM

[olive sable]

are we just memeing now?

[olive sable]

something like this should be fine i think

struct MeshAABB
{
    vector<Object*> boundingboxes;
}
std::vector<MeshAABB> BVH;

there will most likely be less than 100 meshes total

[hoary lion]

i did not expect 5090 2way

[olive sable]

[nocturne olive]

Double 5090?

[nocturne olive]

It's not a 2-way setup, the 5090 doesn't support NVLink or even p2p

It's just two GPUs on the same system

[hoary lion]

oh yeah i forgo

this like the 9th worker or some

how many workers do the yhave

[nocturne olive]

Meanwhile me:

[hoary lion]

nah you good

neurosynth when

[nocturne olive]

The 3090 is exclusively for training

[nocturne olive]

Hopefully it'll be sooner now that I have a 3090

[hoary lion]

judging by the process running, this two 5090 setup is probably going to be some fallback for serving small audio models

andd it only takes up 8gb so

practically free for the second one

[opaque sigil]

the lack of antialiasing bothers me way more than it should ngl

[hoary lion]

huh

awa

[olive sable]

awa

[rigid snow]

i’ve been away for 3 days, where are screeps

[olive sable]

scroll up a few hours

[rigid snow]

oh

[olive sable]

im busy with c++ shenanigans now

screeps was happening 2 hours ago iirc

[stark needle]

We got the same setup lmao

[nocturne olive]

Whuh

[olive sable]

oh lol didnt even realize

and i know what both of you have

[nocturne olive]

You also have 4070Ti + 3090?

[stark needle]

Ye

[olive sable]

[nocturne olive]

That's crazy

What CPU are you driving that with? And what RAM?

[olive sable]

now i just need a 4070ti to match

[stark needle]

also a A770 which I'm waiting for the next pytorch version which will add native xpu support

[stark needle]

i7 13700F and 128gb ddr4 3200

[nocturne olive]

I'm running mine on 12700K and 64GB of overclocked DDR4 at 3800

[stark needle]

yea i had that cpu before

Actually i have no idea when i upgraded to 128

I remember always having 128gb somehow

But ik i bought at some point

[olive sable]

128gb was so trivial to his bank account he forgot

[stark needle]

I think i had 32gb before

[stark needle]

dude ur making me sound rich lmao

[olive sable]

128gb here is like 500 bucks , thats as much as superbox paid for his 3090 without shipping

[nocturne olive]

I was somewhat surprised how well DDR4 overclocks, I have the cheapest 64GB kit of DDR4 3200 and it fairly easily went up to 3800

[stark needle]

??????

Here 128gb cost me 280 or something

Actually lenme check

It cost me

[olive sable]

ah i found some for 350. less than 500 but still expensive

[stark needle]

245chf which is uh

[nocturne olive]

Cheapest DDR4 128GB with a quick look is a 4x32GB kit of the same RAM I have, and it's 344€

[stark needle]

307 usd

[olive sable]

in theory i could just buy another 100 bucks 2*32 kit since i already have one, but idk

[stark needle]

i bought 2 packs of 64gb tho

Cause the single pack of 128 was much more expensive

[olive sable]

its cheaper to just buy 2 seperate kits and hope for the best ye

[nocturne olive]

At least that's a valid start on DDR4

[stark needle]

Did u read

Where

Everyone is still craving ddr4

So now it started production again

and apparently costs more than ddr5

[nocturne olive]

They had stopped DDR4 production?

[stark needle]

Ye

[nocturne olive]

Whuh

[stark needle]

For ddr5

[opaque sigil]

can they start producing ddr3 again

[nocturne olive]

I don't currently even have a motherboard that could take DDR5

[stark needle]

dude i need 16gb lpddr3 so bad

For my nas

[olive sable]

ddr5 is still more expensive than ddr4 to buy. if it costs less to produce make it cheaper or suffer while making ddr4

[olive sable]

me neither

[opaque sigil]

do you have one of those ddr4 only alder lake boards huh

[stark needle]

ye

[olive sable]

i really enjoy mu current mobo, i will make it last another 50 years hopefully

[stark needle]

Windows 12 system requirements

[nocturne olive]

AsRock Z690 PG Riptide

[olive sable]

not for work obviously but it has a lot of io so good for home theatre setup

[nocturne olive]

Meanwhile Linux

[olive sable]

it has optical out and 7.1 ports

and i do like myself a 7.1

[olive sable]

im probably switching to linux after 11

unless 12 happens to be decent, which i doubt

[nocturne olive]

I already switched because 10 broke for me

[stark needle]

im staying on my old ass windows 11 version

[nocturne olive]

For some reason a Windows update broke my Windows 10 install so badly that I could no longer do literally anything after the OS had been running for 1 day

[stark needle]

lmao

i am NOT installing any copilot chatgpt microsoft malware

[olive sable]

i dont have copilot installed i think

[nocturne olive]

I no longer have any Microsoft malware running on my system

[olive sable]

WHERE DID YOU COME FROM?

[nocturne olive]

Windows being stupid of course

[opaque sigil]

it took them a while but they did add it to the eu version too eventually

just rip it out and be done with it

[nocturne olive]

Windows is malware, uninstall Windows and install Linux

[stark needle]

i only have the shitty rename

[olive sable]

im genuinly never using office 365 again unless i need o cuz of school

i hate the rename

like actually i fucking despise it

[stark needle]

i have office from school but

frick it

i exclusively use google docs

cause also the teams office live multi person editing thing is so bad

if u know what i mean

the one where many people can edit the doc at once

[olive sable]

it wasnt too bad when i had to se it from school

just slightly bad

[stark needle]

i dont get why

schools dont simply use google workspace

[nocturne olive]

Here we use Google's stuff and OpenOffice if I remember right

[stark needle]

googles workspace thing literally has

a whole integrated plagiarism software

and grades export

and plagiarism check for microsoft word stuff

[olive sable]

im so good at coding

if (collision)
{
    boundingbox box = {};
    box.min = glm::make_vec3(accessor.minValues.data());
    box.max = glm::make_vec3(accessor.maxValues.data());

    for (int i = 0, i < 3, i++)
    {
        if (aabb.min[i] > box.min[i]) {aabb.min[i] = box.min[i];}
        if (aabb.max[i] < box.max[i]) {aabb.max[i] = box.max[i];}
    }

    boundingboxes.push_back(box);
}

[nocturne olive]

Silliness

[stark needle]

the almost maxed one with google costs 37.50 euro/year while basic office 365 costs 2.50 usd/month otherwise for the better one 6 usd/user/month

[tender river]

how did it get in here

[opaque sigil]

microsoft usually hands out contracts with much lower prices than this to orgs (especially in education), idk if google does that too

[stark needle]

they do

they literally have

a free option

if ur a recognized institution

[tender river]

i once got an unlimited google drive using weird methods

[stark needle]

microsoft 365 A1 which is also free has Outlook, Word, Excel, PowerPoint, OneNote all of em web only while google has most of their stuff included

they have 100tb free disk for the whole institution

and secure ldap etc

[opaque sigil]

oh

[tender river]

[stark needle]

YES

[tender river]

would go well with my copilot

[stark needle]

finally my passwords are stored unprotected on a txt file

somewhere

after keylogger

[warped narwhal]

it's stored somewhere in between the keylogger and the screen scraper

possibly besides the voice monitoring

[stark needle]

true finally microsoft can remind me when my bank account balance is low

[opaque sigil]

they're adding an agent to settings

[stark needle]

❓

[olive sable]

gamedev 100

bool intersect(boundingbox a, boundingbox b)
{
    return a.min.x <= b.max.x && a.max.z >= b.min.x && a.min.y <= b.max.y && a.max.z >= b.min.y && a.min.y <= b.max.z && a.max.z >= b.min.z;
}

[opaque sigil]

bool boundingbox::intersect(boundingbox& b)
{
    return min.x <= b.max.x && max.z >= b.min.x && min.y <= b.max.y && max.z >= b.min.y && min.y <= b.max.z && max.z >= b.min.z;
}

[olive sable]

ig if i make boundingbox a class that could work

rn im just doing

struct boundingbox
{
    glm::vec3 min;
    glm::vec3 max;
};

[opaque sigil]

may as well imo

you're already using c++ so why not take advantage of it

[tender river]

structs also have methods

the only difference between structs and classes in c++ is default visibility

the only one that matters, anyway

[warped narwhal]

the only difference between a struct and a class in c++, is that a class is private by default, and a struct is public by default

[olive sable]

Structs have methods???

Damn

[tender river]

yup

[warped narwhal]

[queen ginkgo]

https://ethz.ch/en/news-and-events/eth-news/news/2025/07/a-language-model-built-for-the-public-good.html

"Open"AI getting mogged by random ass Swiss guys

[olive sable]

random ass swiss guy?

@stark needle this you?

[stark needle]

wym ETH is huge

everyone and their mum collabs with eth

[olive sable]

shadows mum collabs with ETH confirmed

[topaz tendon]

Fun question, why is it every time I switch my audio to my Bluetooth buds instead of wired headphones, the stream buffers for a few seconds?

I thought some weird Bluetooth interference, but would it also interfere with Ethernet?

[sour harness]

Depending on the capabilities this could be neat. 8B and 70B are good sizes to compete at. Doesn't seem to be multi-modal though which is a real bummer.

[olive sable]

like wifi?

i dont think so

idk

[topaz tendon]

Me neither

If chat is anything to go by, my internet doesn't seem like it's getting interrupted by this

[rough bloom]

stuttering for a few hundred milliseconds would make sense since the player is supposed to compensate for the delay introduced by the Bluetooth connection
a few seconds is a lot but maybe it needs to calibrate or something
idk how this feature is implemented, but it exists

[topaz tendon]

I don't think Twitch compensates for Bluetooth latency, or if it tries, it's not doing well lol

And it's not immediate. I switch to my BT buds, the stream is audible and continues to play for like 3-4 more seconds, and only then it buffers for a moment and resumes normally

[rough bloom]

it should be done by the browser, but yeah, maybe it's just not supported in this case

[topaz tendon]

[stark needle]

?

my mum did IT but 1000 years ago

[olive sable]

.

[stark needle]

[rare bramble]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1210767163242057798.gif?size=48&animated=true&name=huhExplode

what are they pathing to?

[olive sable]

the swamp

bathing

[tender river]

@sage crag look at the "dictionary passing" part of this page, specifically haskell vs ocaml comparisons https://okmij.org/ftp/Computation/typeclass.html

(note: it may be confusing that ocaml uses int option to mean Option<int>)

i guess we reinvented typeclasses in hblang
interestingly, scala uses implicit parameters for this (parameters that get initialized using functions that are registered as implicit)

[olive sable]

Can you stop breaking for 1 day????

My roads bgoke cuz my builders stopped repairing them

Ooooooh

[rigid snow]

you should use typescript NOW

[nocturne olive]

Silly game distracting you from game engine dev

[scarlet arch]

This is such a specific meme lol
https://i.redd.it/hgil3v0vggcf1.jpeg

Also mods pls don't nuke me this isn't political

Also what are you guys doing

Was at a pride parade today and now I feel like shit after walking 14k steps

[olive sable]

Im not gonna fix it rn lol

[tender river]

redesigning my language mostly from scratch

[scarlet arch]

Making good progress?

[olive sable]

Porting shit to c++

[scarlet arch]

[tender river]

it's been a good few days of 24/7 thinking and reading and zero programming

idk whether you'd call that good

[scarlet arch]

Classic

As long as you're having fun?

The fact he's typing for several minutes now scares me

[tender river]

i did achieve some progress

• figured that if rustc doesnt always terminate i dont have to always terminate either, just complain to the user if something goes wrong
• realized that subtyping is typeclasses + automatic sum type generation (i.e. it's kinda a natural extension of classic type systems; the latter part is what's new)
• thought a bit about subtypes and supertypes (thoughts pending)

[scarlet arch]

When does rustc not terminate? Never heard of this :D

[rigid snow]

chay thinking of types???

[tender river]

struct S<T>(T);
fn fib<T>(n: T) -> u32 {
    if false { fib(S(n)) } else { 0 }
}
fn main() { fib(5); }

[scarlet arch]

Also, the whole area of math or whatever the main category is that contains all the type stuff, is like black magic to me

[tender river]

it just recurses a bit and then gives up

[scarlet arch]

I'm so happy there's smarter people than me that can reason about it and make a neat compiler

[tender river]

notably, typescript takes a different approach - it recurses a bit and then accepts the program

[scarlet arch]

Neat! But at least it gives up. I thought you meant literally hang

[scarlet arch]

I'm scared to ask, but the program then isn't correct right?

[tender river]

it may or may not be

[scarlet arch]

[tender river]

automatic ToC

[scarlet arch]

ToC?

[tender river]

table of contents

[scarlet arch]

Oh

Might just be a German thing but I'm pretty sure mumu means something

[tender river]

supposed to look like this

[rare bramble]

designed a road / extension layout

the middle is spawn, pink is road, yellow is extension

[sage crag]

i suppose so

[sage crag]

i have not been programming for a while either, taking a short break

[trim valve]

I haven't programmed in too long

[tender river]

i've been trying to program but my brain keep complaining about not yet knowing how to do X and back to research i go

[trim valve]

real

I keep starting researching, getting over-ambitious and giving up because I've done something too hard

[sage crag]

voiced fricative

[olive sable]

std::optional<glm::vec3> boundingbox::intersectRay(glm::vec3& ray)
{
    glm::vec3 dirFrac;
    for (int i = 0; i < 3; ++i)
    {
        dirFrac[i] = (ray[i] != 0.0f) ? 1.0f / ray[i] : std::numeric_limits<float>::infinity();
    }

    float t1 = (aabb.min.x) * dirFrac.x;
    float t2 = (aabb.max.x) * dirFrac.x;
    float t3 = (aabb.min.y) * dirFrac.y;
    float t4 = (aabb.max.y) * dirFrac.y;
    float t5 = (aabb.min.z) * dirFrac.z;
    float t6 = (aabb.max.z) * dirFrac.z;

    float tmin = std::max(std::min(t1, t2), std::min(t3, t4), std::min(t5, t6));
    float tmax = std::min(std::max(t1, t2), std::max(t3, t4), std::max(t5, t6));

    if (tmax < 0 || tmin > tmax) {return std::nullopt;}

    t = (tmin >= 0) ? tmin : tmax;
    return ray * t;
}

im so good at porting stuff from python to c++

[opaque sigil]

i wonder, would

glm::vec3 dirFrac = glm::vec3(1.0f) / ray;

be equivalent

idk how pedantic they are about their floats

[olive sable]

idk either

[opaque sigil]

i was right

1/0 is inf

[tender river]

coherence... where are you..... i want you back...

[olive sable]

?

[tender river]

i want extensibility and i want it now i want it i want it i want it

but evil programmers say no i want to change my program BOOM extensibility gone

why

i'm currently on a huge tangent, as i'm looking for ways to model overloading i figured why not try row types, and i can certainly do it but the problem is if i do row selection based on supported operations eventually some of the rows may get more operations boom program broken

[warped narwhal]

return ray * t

this seems off, either you're missing the offset in this, or you are using a non-unit ray vector.

[tender river]

of course i could alternatively just say "this code may break at any time good luck", not a problem since erf will not be used at scale (hopefully)

[olive sable]

wdym?

that im not changing the vector to world space?

[warped narwhal]

the ray equation is r = o + td and you seem to be missing the o

[olive sable]

everything is calcuilated as local cuz its a move vector

o would be needed if the boundingboxes were in world space i think?

[warped narwhal]

what values are you expecting ray to hold?

[olive sable]

just the direction

its a vec3

o would be needed if the boundingboxes were in world space no?

[warped narwhal]

then how is the initial position of the ray fetched?

as it seems rn, that you are always tracing from the centre of the box outwards.

[olive sable]

there is no fetching of the initial position, but its meant to be the move vector of the player

glm::vec2 movement = glm::vec2(right * move.x, forward * move.y)

[warped narwhal]

it is always needed, as otherwise you would never be able to tell the difference between a ray pointing inwards, and one pointing outwards.

[olive sable]

its always pointing outwards

the centre is the player

[warped narwhal]

where and how do you use this function?

[olive sable]

first we get move from the keypresses

if (keystate[SDL_SCANCODE_W] || keystate[SDL_SCANCODE_UP])    move.y += 0.3 * deltaTime;
if (keystate[SDL_SCANCODE_S] || keystate[SDL_SCANCODE_DOWN])  move.y -= 0.3 * deltaTime;
if (keystate[SDL_SCANCODE_A] || keystate[SDL_SCANCODE_LEFT])  move.x -= 0.3 * deltaTime;
if (keystate[SDL_SCANCODE_D] || keystate[SDL_SCANCODE_RIGHT]) move.x += 0.3 * deltaTime;

then we convert it to player directions

glm::vec2 movement = glm::vec2(right * move.x, forward * move.y)

then we use it in the collision

it also should be normailzed for the collision i relaize

[warped narwhal]

do you just extend movement to a vec3?

[olive sable]

oh ye i forgot about that

move doesnt go up ye

thats other collision logic

[warped narwhal]

so movement is in player local space, but what space is boundingbox.aabb in?

[olive sable]

ah fuck

its in world space

i forgor

no wait, its in object space?

ye its in object space

[warped narwhal]

what is object space?

[olive sable]

the gltf file has a centre

thats object space

in python i was doing

meshBoundingBoxes = obj[1].boundingBox + obj[0].position
for meshBoundingBox in meshBoundingBoxes:

    localBoundingBox = meshBoundingBox - pos

[warped narwhal]

if you want to omit the initial position, you must transform the bounding box into player local space, otherwise you will be way off in your calculations with that code.

[olive sable]

ye in python i was putting them in local space

but that probably wastes some cpu

its better to jsut add the +o

[lapis wraith]

Another test with gary. We're not quite there, but he's got the spirit.
Turns out I've just gotta explain the game better to gary

[warped narwhal]

Today I flaunt my proudest creation: home.svg, it took 30 minutes to write 12 lines, but it was worth it in the end

[lapis wraith]

You could say it's a programmers house

[warped narwhal]

at least it displays somewhat correctly in the browser

[rare bridge]

i might seperate the logistics logic for filling spawners into a dedicated group of creeps

[wide falcon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/882790866861817975/1393645378489946202/5c3j723imfcf1.png?ex=6873ece6&is=68729b66&hm=c28f6bd600cfbb41fcdec5fc0bcf1f2c1978e0746d40df40d063a3b50f1d1bbd&

[warped narwhal]

[opaque sigil]

This looks like someone took a 144p image and tried to upscale it with ai

[rare bridge]

okay bad idea i'm losing a ton of storage om

[olive sable]

not anymore

for (RenderableObject &rendObj : objectlist)
{
    position = rendObj.object.position
    rendObj.model.aabb.min += position
    rendObj.model.aabb.max += position
    for (boundingbox &box : rendObj.model.boundingboxes)
    {
        box.min += position;
        box.max += position;
    }
}

fuck i made a mistake

fixed

[amber fractal]

My lazy butt wouldn't even bother with this, I'd just begin the goto spam

[olive sable]

makes me think of that wordcloud lmao

[amber fractal]

It was your worldcould as well

[olive sable]

took a while to find lmao

i notice ive gotten inbto the habbit of "lmao'ing"

huh

[desert plaza]

huh

[nocturne olive]

Whar

[olive sable]

im still here you know

me?

your free to try

you what?

are you like an amputee?

ah

the diital realm still folows the rules of time

you cant just ignore one of the fundamental rules of ourr universe cuz you exist on a fancy siicon rock with engravings

[tight tinsel]

its screeps

???

[olive sable]

????????

#programming i present this duck

[amber fractal]

?????????

[olive sable]

dont worry about it

[amber fractal]

I can only imagine either bot, or an insane crashout

[olive sable]

u mean "based sherk"?

[amber fractal]

sherk is based I'll give it that, but I half assumed something else happened

[olive sable]

i dont think so

dont remember anything else happenign

@tight tinsel nothing happened right?

[tight tinsel]

what happened

didnt see anything other than duck

[olive sable]

nothiing happened it hink

iggly askied why we ????

litke the question marks

[tight tinsel]

i was just confused on what they were saying

[olive sable]

im getting linking errors bwaa

[opaque sigil]

those are the best

wdym you don't like getting 10 pages of errors just cause you forgot to add -ltbb

though ig that's a best case kinda

[olive sable]

Idk why

Im defining a struct in a .hpp

Abd making the function in the .cpp

And it compiles the file, but wont lnk

[raw agate]

[hoary lion]

wdym

[hoary lion]

explain plz

[raw agate]

wdym explain? my question is right there..

[amber fractal]

You could always write html,css,js on a notes app and open with browser

[raw agate]

hmmm. i wonder what the website "address" looks like

[amber fractal]

There were two ways to parse that: make a site for mobile, or make a site on mobile

[amber fractal]

some file:/// thing

[raw agate]

oh. my question is to make a site on mobile

[amber fractal]

In that case my advice should work? let me test rq

[raw agate]

tq

[tight tinsel]

rahh linkedin if your gonna send me emails keep them to promotions!!!

[amber fractal]

http://127.0.0.1:12882/main/0/storage/emulated/0/Audiobooks/main.html
Not what I was expecting but sure

[tight tinsel]

i thought i got another acceptance email but no its linkedin tellig me some random guy "looked" at my profile

[amber fractal]

@raw agate seems like it'll work, ig on android it is some port on localhost

Nope, seems like my file app is doing that

I'll give it a solid maybe

[opaque wharf]

Your tolerance to pain is waaay tooo high

[amber fractal]

pain is how I live

[worldly plank]

Why duck?

[opaque wharf]

Hey twins profile pic

[jagged turtle]

respect

[gaunt vale]

anyone here an electronics nerd

[opal dragon]

I'm sure there is someone

[gaunt vale]

dote upon this board

it's a sony design from 1984

[opal dragon]

Scary

[stark needle]

😭

[unkempt citrus]

The traces

They're so round

[gaunt vale]

it is hand drawn

[unkempt citrus]

The solders are so big

I can do smaller

[opaque wharf]

Looks pretty well taken care of

[unkempt citrus]

So clustered

Though I guess with the size there's reduced interference

[gaunt vale]

later revisions used modern PCBs

and more surface mount components

this device was manufactured from 1984 to 2002

[opaque wharf]

It escapes me that engineers of the old days also draw the PCB traces by hand

[rare bramble]

oh wow, must have taken quite a lot of hand soldering to get it working and validation to make sure that all the wires are properly done

[midnight sigil]

inverting a matrix goes hard in blender

[glass flower]

im mining now in 2 extra rooms outside my main room

[olive sable]

why wont you link motherfucker

g++ output/main.o output/shader.o output/loadGLTF.o output/glcontext.o -g -o output/a.exe -Lsrc/lib -lmingw32 -lSDL2main -lSDL2 -lSDL2_image -lSDL2_ttf -lopengl32 -lglew32
C:/MinGW/bin/../lib/gcc/x86_64-w64-mingw32/13.2.0/../../../../x86_64-w64-mingw32/bin/ld.exe: output/main.o:main.cpp:(.text$_ZN6Render8baseloopEv[_ZN6Render8baseloopEv]+0x246): undefined reference to `boundingbox::intersectRay(glm::vec<3, float, (glm::qualifier)3> const&, glm::vec<3, float, (glm::qualifier)3> const&)'
collect2.exe: error: ld returned 1 exit status

wtf does this even mean?

[midnight sigil]

I regret what I have done

now I need to debug my junk

[midnight sigil]

it's time to learn how to use a debugger

[olive sable]

[glass flower]

link errors

[rough bloom]

a debugger wouldn't even help with this though, it's a compile-time error

[rough bloom]

it means what it says, main.o isn't being linked to an object file containing that symbol

[olive sable]

but it shoudl exist???

[rough bloom]

should work I think, idk what's broken, have fun

[olive sable]

fuck

[rough bloom]

you could check what symbols are in loadGLTF.o but idk how to do that on Windows

[olive sable]

am i maybe accesing it wrong?
std::optional<glm::vec3> collision = rendObj.model->aabb.intersectRay(movement, position);
aabb is supposed to be that struct

[rough bloom]

I don't think so
if it's an issue with the function signature or the call then I think the compiler should be complaining instead of the linker

[wet oyster]

I think you have an affinity for tech support!

[olive sable]

the problem is that it looks like it should be working

but it doesnt

even chatgpt cant figure it out

[rough bloom]

thank you very much, my patience for solving random bs problems with a complete lack of information is infinite

[olive sable]

i changed some things and now the compiler is spitting oput a bumch of unused functiopn errors

bwaa

[green iron]

btw is the ftp server down?

[opaque wharf]

I leave #programming for a day, and it seems like things are on fire today huh

[olive sable]

yep

welp, doing an illegal and putting the function in the header works

struct boundingbox
{
    glm::vec3 min;
    glm::vec3 max;

    std::optional<glm::vec3> intersectRay(glm::vec3 ray, glm::vec3 origin)
    {
        glm::vec3 dirFrac = glm::vec3(0.0f);
        for (int i = 0; i < 3; ++i)
        {
            dirFrac[i] = (ray[i] != 0.0f) ? 1.0f / ray[i] : std::numeric_limits<float>::infinity();
        }

        float t1 = (min.x - origin.x) * dirFrac.x;
        float t2 = (max.x - origin.x) * dirFrac.x;
        float t3 = (min.y - origin.y) * dirFrac.y;
        float t4 = (max.y - origin.y) * dirFrac.y;
        float t5 = (min.z - origin.z) * dirFrac.z;
        float t6 = (max.z - origin.z) * dirFrac.z;

        float tmin = std::max({std::min(t1, t2), std::min(t3, t4), std::min(t5, t6)});
        float tmax = std::min({std::max(t1, t2), std::max(t3, t4), std::max(t5, t6)});

        if (tmax < 0 || tmin > tmax) {return std::nullopt;}
        float t = (tmin >= 0) ? tmin : tmax;
        return ray * t;
    }
};

[midnight sigil]

[olive sable]

so it was purely not linking the function in the .cpp to the struct in the .hpp

[midnight sigil]

never come back to this code in the future again

[olive sable]

yep

[midnight sigil]

if it works it works

👍

[olive sable]

nevermind

...

output/a.exe
Init OpenGL
GLEW initialised
OpenGL initialized
GL_VERSION: 3.3.0 NVIDIA 572.83
make: *** [makefile:22: run] Error -1073741819

[rough bloom]

no, that's not how linking works
the call in main.cpp only considers the function signature specified in loadGLTF.hpp and then emits a reference to that function/symbol
the implementation in loadGLTF.cpp should provide that symbol for the linker to find later when it needs to resolve that reference
the linker never sees any header or even any source code, only the compiled object files

if your implementation doesn't match the signature written in the header then the compiler should at least emit a warning

[olive sable]

[glass flower]

what build system are you using? normally that should take care of all the linking

[olive sable]

makefile

[glass flower]

but yeah.. i get it.. build systems are a pain even if they should "just work".
i used fips for my own engine since i used sokol. it worked... but adding new libraries was still a pain

[hoary lion]

yet again I see sam getting tortured by c++

[olive sable]

yep...

c++ fuckign hates me

[rough bloom]

nah, these are just average C++ issues

it's an overly complicated language with dogshit tooling

[olive sable]

python was so much easier

[hoary lion]

true

[glass flower]

maybe use scons as your build system. its basically python

[midnight sigil]

I have found my mistake

I did m(1, 1) * m(2, 2) instead of m(0, 1) * m(2, 2)

took me some time to find it

[rough bloom]

ah yes, Scons, the build system most known for being so awfully slow that everyone is moving away from it when possible

[midnight sigil]

"Oh man, python is so slow on this task... let me search if there're ways to make python faster"
Top search result:
Convert Python into C/C++ code

[olive sable]

[rough bloom]

-#

[glass flower]

wdym slow?

[rough bloom]

that's what it's known for
idk why it's slow, I've never used it since there hasn't been a reason to

[glass flower]

well.. i use it to compile the godot engine all of the time.

[tender river]

wow.

im used to the supermarket door ignoring me

but it did it TWICE today

on the way there it just shut right in front of me and i had to walk around for like 10 seconds for it to notice me

on the way back it just ignored me again

learn some manners

[olive sable]

chayleaf is a ghost

https://tenor.com/view/no-face-ghost-eating-cake-anime-gif-17758293

chayleaf fr fr

[tender river]

need a chayleaf visibility day

[opaque wharf]

Please no, use meson instead

[glass flower]

what is meson... literally never heard of it

[opaque wharf]

Build system

mesonbuild.com/

[glass flower]

i get that... but what uses it

[opaque wharf]

Wdym? As in a big project that uses it? IIRC, GNOME uses meson a lot

[glass flower]

but also what is the benefit of meson over something like scons

[tender river]

never heard of scons

meson is super popular

[opaque wharf]

I've used it for modm.io

[glass flower]

i never heard of meson but i've seen a few scons users

[opaque wharf]

Can say, not my cup of tea to use SCons

Because it's not basically python, it is python

[rough bloom]

https://mesonbuild.com/Users.html
https://mesonbuild.com/Simple-comparison.html

[tender river]

to be fair meson is also python

[opaque wharf]

Mhmm, fair point

[rough bloom]

Meson only generates a file for Ninja to run though, similar to CMake and others
AFAIK Scons actually tries to do the build itself

[glass flower]

honestly that shows me.. that it literally doesn't matter... 10 seconds slower is like nothing if its a multi-minute compile anyway

[rough bloom]

surely the issue doesn't become worse for larger projects

[opaque wharf]

That would be cursed ngl

I didn't know that. I thought SCons were handling it over to ninja or smth when using modm

[glass flower]

honestly.. i don't plan on starting a new c++ project anytime soon.. so i won't worry about build systems

i just have to use scons because the most c++ i write is for GDExtensions for my godot projects

[olive sable]

rendObj.model->aabb.min += position; why does this not work?

it makes the program crash during runtime

[glass flower]

is the model a nullptr?

[tender river]

this meanas model is not a valid pointer

[olive sable]

it shouldnt be

[tender river]

it was freed or never initialized

[glass flower]

well.. are you checking if it is before accessing it?

[tender river]

thats why you use shared_ptr (or unique_ptr)

[olive sable]

it should be in scope, and its also a std::shared_ptr<Model>;

[tender river]

cout works but mutation doesnt?

[olive sable]

yep

-10 -5.54999 -10
-8 5.55 40make: *** [makefile:22: run] Error -1073741819

[tender river]

well, thats when you learn to use valgrind or asan

[olive sable]

fuck

[opaque wharf]

Everytime I see Sam error

Like actually, how did you manage to do something so cursed that the whole compiler, linker, and IDE straight up give up

[tender river]

asan https://github.com/google/sanitizers/wiki/AddressSanitizer
valgrind https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valgrind

[olive sable]

windows?

[tender river]

nobody cares about windows

[olive sable]

hmmm

its still going

[noble zodiac]

just link correctly

[olive sable]

ofcourse, why didnt i think of that?

[opaque wharf]

It is time Sam, to use build system. They've been calling you from the abyss this whole time

[tender river]

dont think that would help here

[opaque wharf]

I think it will help with linking mishap

[olive sable]

thats not the problem anymore

[tender river]

it wont magically link to asan

[opaque wharf]

Oh, it's new

[rough bloom]

https://github.com/google/sanitizers/wiki/AddressSanitizerWindowsPort
https://clang.llvm.org/docs/AddressSanitizer.html
Clang has asan on Windows
LLVM wins again

[olive sable]

ok its doing stuff now

oh uck it broke again

shoudl work now

hopefully

[hoary lion]

https://tenor.com/view/anime-gif-12208818539534023655

core

[tender river]

meow meow

[opaque wharf]

Any ideas of what to eat?

[hoary lion]

food

[olive sable]

https://tenor.com/view/shoujo-shuumatsu-ryokou-girls-last-tour-anime-girl-eating-french-fries-french-fries-anime-gif-25354092

[opaque wharf]

I'm thinking of having a byte

Not byter tho

[hoary lion]

is this rizz chat

[olive sable]

is it?

[tender river]

your climate is different from siberia so idk what seasonal dishes you have but its summer so i think i'll start cooking eggplant dishes every now and then

[opaque wharf]

Eggplant sounds nice

Thanks for some idea

Spicy eggplant it is

[midnight sigil]

my color transform made in Blender's compositor is better than Filmic 🙏 😭

[opaque wharf]

Are you also one of those that hold 100+ tabs hostage?

[sharp mantle]

Firefox has it‘s own task manager with shift+esc, there should be a list with gpu so you can spot whats hogging vram

[sage crag]

i am uncomputable

awa

[tender river]

are you the halting problem

[sage crag]

i am a halting problem, but not the halting problem

[tender river]

halting problem sounds less dangerous than non-halting problem

[midnight sigil]

no

konii * konii = konii^2

computed

[opaque wharf]

What does the * operator do?

[olive sable]

multiplication?

[opaque wharf]

Can't be too sure on one of these days where everything is on fire

[olive sable]

i have figured out why it crashes i think

[tender river]

c++ crashes are very funny

i once wrote a mod for a game

and it crashed

[olive sable]

apparently doing
using ModelPtr = std::shared_ptr<Model>;
makes every ModelPtr mesh1 = std::make_shared<Model>... the same exact class?

[tender river]

then i tried adding debug prints and it stopped crashing

then i kept the code that gets the stuff for debugging but removed the prints and it still didnt crash

and it didnt do any function calls, it just accessed some pointers

[olive sable]

find this behaviour very weird but idk

[tender river]

that shouldnt be happening

unless model is parametrized

[opaque wharf]

Why not?

[tender river]

because its just a type alias

[olive sable]

idk what parametrized means but model looks like this

class Model
{
    public:
        std::vector<MeshDraw> meshdata;
        std::vector<boundingbox> boundingboxes;
        boundingbox aabb;

        Model(const char* filename);
        void drawModel();
        void drawDepth();
        ~Model();

    private:
        std::unordered_map<int, GLuint> textureMap;

        void bindNode(tinygltf::Model& model, const tinygltf::Node& node);
        void bindMesh(tinygltf::Model& model, tinygltf::Mesh& mesh);
        void bindAttrib(tinygltf::Model& model, int binding, int vecSize, int attribPos, bool collision);
        void createTexture(const tinygltf::Model& model, int index);
};

[opaque wharf]

You know what, I think I need to sleep for a bit for now

[olive sable]

i copy pasted the worng thinh

fixed

nah wait im wrong

i think

[tender river]

yeah using shouldnt affect anything here

[ruby plover]

on firefox any good dark mode extensions?

[olive sable]

each one is a diffrent instance, but if im using the same model twice then it gets fucke up

[glass flower]

Dark Reader

absolutely the only good option

[ruby plover]

thank you o7

[topaz tendon]

Interesting IP

[tender river]

i think movies do it on purpose so they dont collide with actual people's ips

[olive sable]

guys did you know my ip adress is 192.168.....

[topaz tendon]

Yeah but they could have just used a local IP then

also just in case you didn't spot it, look at the fourth octet

[tender river]

i did spot it

[topaz tendon]

I needed a second look to spot it

[olive sable]

lmao my ip adress location puts me in france

[topaz tendon]

Mine puts me in my country's capitol, the opposite of where I actually am, the benefits of LTE I guess, GeoIP shows nonsense

[olive sable]

ok new development.....

//this one doesnt crash
rendObj.model->aabb.min += position;
//this one does crash
rendObj.model->aabb.max += position;

https://tenor.com/view/what-confused-persian-room-cat-guardian-gif-11044457

i didnt even change anything

im so confused

i added prints and it stopped crashing??????

wtf

[tender river]

thats how you solve UB crashes

(or, use valgrind/asan)

[olive sable]

welp, never touching this code again

i couldnt figure out how to install asan btw

[tender river]

ask chatgpt or something

[olive sable]

and valgrind doesnt work on windows it seems

[rough bloom]

UBSan

[olive sable]

chatgpt was like "do this command" and i did it and it didnt work

[tender river]

classic

[olive sable]

it just gave me shit i tried already

[rough bloom]

if you want ASan or UBSan you should just use Clang

dunno what ChatGPT is hallucinating there but it just doesn't seem to be supported with MinGW

[warped narwhal]

didn't you say you were on windows?

does windows have a pacman?

[olive sable]

it kinda does

you need to enable it

[warped narwhal]

cause the one chatGPT generated is definitely the one for arch

[olive sable]

ah

addignmore prints made it break again

hmmm

i need to find the optimal amount of prints

[rough bloom]

https://github.com/msys2/MINGW-packages/issues/3163#issuecomment-2451639935
okay yeah unless something major changed in the past few months sanitizers are just not supported with GCC on Windows

[olive sable]

[warped narwhal]

and valgrind doesn't exist on windows either so you can't use that instead

[rough bloom]

Clang has sanitizers on Windows though
at least ASan

[olive sable]

how do i do that?

[warped narwhal]

I do wonder why you can't just use MSVC, you can still use it in a makefile, you just need to use the developer console to run make

[rough bloom]

Install Clang (again), change compiler calls in your Makefile to use Clang, add the ASan flags
https://clang.llvm.org/docs/AddressSanitizer.html#usage

[olive sable]

[rough bloom]

alternatively if you don't want to bother with ASan you could try manually printing some pointers and seeing where they're pointing and why that memory is now inaccessible somehow

[olive sable]

geuss im using c++20?

[tender river]

replace 23 with 2b

[olive sable]

okay

this is where the reinstallc omes into play ig?

[tender river]

you should probably use clang as the linker

[olive sable]

am i not?

[rough bloom]

MinGW Clang

[olive sable]

so delete mingw?

[rough bloom]

probably just get the proper version of Clang and fix your PATH to point to that first

(or figure out what's wrong with the MinGW one)

[tender river]

maybe install mingw-w64-clang-x86_64-compiler-rt

[rough bloom]

issues like these make me very glad that I don't have to mess with globally installed half-broken toolchains like this

[rare bridge]

@real sierra things have gone very, very wrong

[stark needle]

Hello MetaHumans

[olive sable]

Hiii

[stark needle]

https://tenor.com/view/metaverse-zuckerberg-zuck-mark-zuckerberg-meta-gif-23714532

meow

[hoary lion]

gosh that gif is uncanny

sorry mark

[olive sable]

the amount of meow's and awa's is incereasing every single day

[hoary lion]

istg what is awa

[olive sable]

with each day #programming 's autism grows stronger

[tender river]

awa

[rough bloom]

awa

[olive sable]

awa

[stark needle]

awa

[hoary lion]

[tender river]

its a vicious self-reinforcing loop

[olive sable]

installing clang again is making my windows defender freak out

[noble zodiac]

meow

[opaque sigil]

Did you uninstall it?

[rough bloom]

Windows and unsigned, rarely seen executables

[olive sable]

its doingf this rn

[opaque sigil]

clang should absolutely not freak out windows defender

[rough bloom]

??? why are you building LLVM

[olive sable]

im following the guide

[opaque sigil]

Just download it from GitHub

[rough bloom]

I'm pretty sure you can download a precompiled version but good luck

[olive sable]

nah, take me to gh

[opaque sigil]

They even have an installer

[rough bloom]

yeah, I'm 99% sure you even had it installed already

[hoary lion]

never seen someone actually building at home

[olive sable]

i was just mindlesly following the guide lmao

[rough bloom]

the Gentoo users in question

[opaque sigil]

You should already have it installed unless you yeeted it

[noble zodiac]

surely that has nothing to do with why you have those weird problems to begin with

[rough bloom]

he yeeted it

[opaque sigil]

welp

[olive sable]

i only yeeted the clang vsc extension lmao

[rough bloom]

Sam shares so much stuff about his game engine here that I know which C++ toolchains are installed on his system

if you still have the original Clang install from when you first set up all the C++ stuff then you should be able to just use that

[opaque sigil]

Ah so it was clangd right

[olive sable]

you probably know better than me cuz i have installed so many random bullshit files now that i lost count

[tender river]

no, this is not what i mean by cps

[opaque sigil]

You should have all of llvm iirc

Including asan

Well not all but all that matters

[olive sable]

which one should i get?

LLVM-20.1.8-win64.exe ?

[hoary lion]

executables my beloved

[opaque sigil]

Yeah

flang is in there now huh

[olive sable]

honeslt someday i will nuke this windows install and all these installed programs tthat im not using

yes linux

i will have a dualboot tho cuz i need my satisfactory

[rough bloom]

reasonable

[tender river]

satisfactory should run just fine on linux no?

[rough bloom]

oh yeah, Satisfactory is compatible

[olive sable]

ahhh

okay

[tender river]

https://www.protondb.com/app/526870

what is this useless meta

[olive sable]

isnt proton less performant than jut using a barebones windows?

[tender river]

no

idk where you heard that

it might be depending on the game

but it might also be faster depending on the game

[rough bloom]

yeah, it's faster sometimes

[olive sable]

[rough bloom]

it's a completely different stack than on Windows, so performance can be different than on Windows sometimes, but due to Valve and the Steam Deck a lot of effort has gone into making it fast over the past few years

[olive sable]

[tender river]

another win is you wont be able to run roblox or league of legends

[rough bloom]

you used to be able to run Roblox

but no longer

[tender river]

same goes for lol

[rough bloom]

right, I remember that there was a wine version for that specifically

I guess it broke with Vanguard if they have that for LoL now
idk I don't play it

[tender river]

mhm its just game companies being actively hostile rather than linux's issue

[real sierra]

lots of energy to mine from this container

[rare bridge]

my question is how he even got on top of the wall

[olive sable]

ye

i was thinking "shiro hes ont he fuclking wall???"

[real sierra]

road?

[rare bridge]

no road

[olive sable]

just wall

[olive sable]

why tho?

my brother plays lol sometimes

[real sierra]

your brother is single forever

[olive sable]

bro literaly has a girlfriend

[real sierra]

impossible

[olive sable]

they watched pirates of the caribbean yesterday

[real sierra]

wtf based??

[olive sable]

i had to get the files

[real sierra]

legendary trilogy

[olive sable]

wait

ignore that

as a mod you didnt see anything

[real sierra]

[opaque sigil]

The files you ripped from your owned Blu-rays

[olive sable]

also there are 5 movies, wdym trilogy?

[opaque sigil]

[olive sable]

[real sierra]

if i counted all 5 i'd have to take the "legendary" part off

[olive sable]

are the last 2 bad?

[real sierra]

gaslight yourself into thinking there are only 3

its better that way

[olive sable]

nah ill watch all 5

LINK : fatal error LNK1181: cannot open input file 'SDL2main.lib'

fuuuuck

sdl2main is for mingw

[rough bloom]

why is it using MSVC now

[olive sable]

is it not supposed to?

[rough bloom]

I don't think so, no

[olive sable]

i have no clue whats happening

so i need to use clang++ with mingw linker?

[rough bloom]

no, ideally use lld as the linker

[olive sable]

what even is lld?

[rough bloom]

dunno what dependencies you have left on the MinGW stuff, that's on you to figure out

[rough bloom]

linker from LLVM

[glass flower]

its just a visual bug i had some of my miners be on the other side of the room a few times

[olive sable]

ah yes

[nocturne olive]

Satisfactory runs on Linux

[rare bridge]

got it

[nocturne olive]

Almost all Windows games run on Proton on Linux

[rare bridge]

i love when trying to install php on WSL doesn't work for zero reason

[dry charm]

And yet I still see people say "Linux doesn't run half of the games"

and start arguing about it

[tender river]

if your games are on steam you're basically golden

[nocturne olive]

Just tell those kinds of people to try it if they think stuff won't work

[tender river]

there are still compatibility problems (like lack of some professional software) but games are not one of them

[safe path]

one day we will get a non-office(dot)com 365 suite on linux

like literally it's an office software why in gods name is it so integrated into the operating system

[rough bloom]

tbf the few games that don't run are some of the really big ones that can afford intrusive anti-cheat solutions (like LoL)
plus they're often multiplayer which makes the social aspect of switching worse, so it quickly becomes a dealbreaker

[dry charm]

Platform dependency

[dry charm]

Yes but claiming "half" doesn't work is just plain wrong

[nocturne olive]

All the malware games

[dry charm]

Oh of course

[safe path]

bika

[dry charm]

Yeah I did an oppsie

[tender river]

in like 2019-2020 i switched from linux to windows just for osu!taiko because fps was unsatisfactory (not the actual fps, but the fact it looked choppy despite running at good fps, some kind of vsync issue or whatever)

[dry charm]

But don't tell me you do not agree

[open copper]

[opaque sigil]

Half the ones that matter to the average person

[tender river]

switched to linux for good in 2022 though

[dry charm]

Yeah I typed their library is literally League and CS2 with some flair

[safe path]

i love linux

my life improved 10-fold uninstalling the games that don't run on linux

[open copper]

(so like all games)

[nocturne olive]

I went to Linux because Windows just stopped working completely because of an update

[safe path]

in its place is an emacs config that takes up all of my free time

[tender river]

hi heir

[nocturne olive]

I was planning to switch anyway, just not so suddenly

[open copper]

hio

[safe path]

the games that i like do actually run on linux under proton!

[tender river]

osu! runs natively, factorio runs natively, and i literally never launch anything else

[nocturne olive]

Surprisingly most games run perfectly well on Linux

[olive sable]

the month of july seams to be the invasion of mods into #programming

[open copper]

my friend was lamenting not being able to get helldivers or vrchat to work on it

[nocturne olive]

I assume malware games with anticheats

[safe path]

[open copper]

most online games have anticheats

thats normal

[tender river]

vr is a bit wonky because its headset dependent

[nocturne olive]

Kernelside anticheats are basically malware

[tender river]

valve index will work perfectly

something like pico may not

[open copper]

that aint nothin
have you seen what thery snuck into borderlands

i can never play it again

[dry charm]

Helldivers has Sony AC and VRChat has EAC

VRChat literally 1 click away from support, it is just not enabled

[tender river]

vrchat is rated gold on protondb

[dry charm]

https://www.protondb.com/app/553850
wait holy misinfo

Helldivers is gold as well

[open copper]

it straight up wasnt working for her

[nocturne olive]

If there's a bug in a kernelside anticheat, it either takes down the whole machine with it, giving a BSoD or gives a vulnerable entrypoint for malware to enter to the highest level of permissions

[safe path]

maybe proton experimental?

[dry charm]

Wait thefuck, vrchat is Deck Verified

[open copper]

i assume it depends on the type of linux

[rough bloom]

yeah, was about to say
I played both of those on Linux a while ago
(not with VR though)
-# (a while = 1-2 years ago)

[tender river]

games absolutely do require troubleshooting every now and then on linux, its a bit of a pain

[dry charm]

Literally the same thing can happen like it happened to that other software. Crowdstrike was it?

[nocturne olive]

Yeah, and that's why you keep your games out of the kernel

[open copper]

i feel bad for the nonprogrammers switching to linnux thinking they will have a much better time because windows is a fuck

[nocturne olive]

I wouldn't want the devs that make games that run like garbage with 0 optimizations poking at my kernel

[tender river]

well, the thing with linux is its getting better and better but you very much have to be good at googling

[nocturne olive]

There's very casual-friendly distros
Mint is a good one that just works most of the time

[rough bloom]

you don't need to be a programmer to use Linux
you do want to have the capacity to troubleshoot issues and learn new stuff though

[open copper]

i wont make the switch until i absolutely have to :/

[tender river]

you can try dual booting

[safe path]

yh if you need something that just works ™ , linux is still not really there yet

[nocturne olive]

With how Windows 11 is going, I wouldn't even bother with Windows any more

[safe path]

its inching ever so close though

[rough bloom]

next year is the year of the Linux desktop

[safe path]

steam and how it's done proton removed so much headache from figuring out wine

[open copper]

an inch is a miniscule amount of movement when youre trying to run a marathon

[tender river]

well, many people in this channel run linux and it works for them, windows causes its own kind of problems

[open copper]

one day maybe it will be there

[safe path]

[open copper]

as a typical non programmer end user who doesnt even engage with the side things windows has I dont really have enough problems to warrant a switch to linnux

[tender river]

(and not in this channel, haven't seen mito in here)

[safe path]

tbf there's also the fact that many things are just designed without considering linux

[open copper]

yeah agreed

[safe path]

we're just kinda left figuring out how exactly to interface with it in a way that doesn't pain the user

like the damn ipu6 cameras on new laptops

[open copper]

im gonna inevitably come across thigns i want that i just can no longer have if thee switch is made

[tender river]

mhm but the converse is also true

its a tradeoff

[rough bloom]

yeah, I think there is a disproportionately large amount of Linux users around in online communities like this in general
you just don't really notice because they're not mentioning Arch Linux all the time

[nocturne olive]

Like an update making the system unable to do literally anything when booted for a day

That's what happened to my Windows

[open copper]

https://tenor.com/view/arch-btw-arch-linux-i-use-arch-btw-spongebob-gif-26193715

[olive sable]

my brain is hurting from clang

[tender river]

clang clang clang

[olive sable]

https://tenor.com/view/scott-pilgrim-scott-pilgrim-takes-off-ramona-flowers-disgusted-gross-gif-8464092311451092369

[rough bloom]

good thing that you can use both
dualbooting or using a VM is kinda annoying for daily use but very good for learning so that it's less of a hurdle later

[trim valve]

it is the time once again

hopefully it explodes less under hyper-v instead of virtualbox

[sage crag]

https://tenor.com/view/evil-pipes-evil-neuro-neuro-sama-gif-17176048630281604301

[olive sable]

i am the table

and clang is the metal pipe

named after the sound of it hittin my empty skull

[tender river]

i forgot i have an ice cream

[sage crag]

i also forgot

[tender river]

i will no longer have an ice cream in a few minutes

[sage crag]

[olive sable]

i am having pizza in a bit

[trim valve]

that's new

how have you managed to get into a state where I can't power off my nixos vm 😭

[tender river]

your first mistake was thinking you have any power over nixos

[olive sable]

thats me

[sage crag]

m

im considering making Io a struct like Allocator

[opaque sigil]

ship it before zig does so you can say you did it first

[tender river]

i'm postponing work on erf i got a weird new idea a stack based language with first class continuations

[opaque sigil]

any particular reason you're doing this over just installing it under wsl?

that sounds so cursed but i'm intrigued

[trim valve]

I kinda want to mess around with a desktop environment

[tender river]

is Allocator a struct?

[opaque sigil]

i should've guessed that

[sage crag]

the problem im trying to solve is specialisation in Io operations

[tender river]

its an API right?

[trim valve]

I might end up using nixos for some rpi stuff and it feels like it'd be easier to debug like this

idk really though

[sage crag]

API, but loosely for each function that takes it, Allocator is a struct

[sage crag]

including asyncio

mainly because while making operations async with epoll is trivial, actually running them async is hard

[tender river]

also file operations just block either way

[opaque sigil]

true

[sage crag]

[tender river]

didnt you already have some prototype for that i forgor

[sage crag]

vaguely, but i decided that was too much specialisation

[olive sable]

[opaque sigil]

why are we linking with gcc

[olive sable]

idk

i have no fucking clue what its doing

[opaque sigil]

can you send the makefile again

[sage crag]

rather than having separate apis for IO operations, just separate IOs entirely

[olive sable]

CXX := clang++
CXXFLAGS := -fsanitize=address -O3 -Wall -std=c++2b -MMD -MP \
            -Isrc -Isrc/include -Imodels/V-nexus \
            -target x86_64-w64-mingw32

LDFLAGS := -fsanitize=address \
           -Lsrc/lib \
           -lSDL2main -lSDL2 -lSDL2_image -lSDL2_ttf -lglew32 -lopengl32 -fuse-ld=lld\
           -target x86_64-w64-mingw32

OUTPUT := output
SRCS := src/main.cpp src/shader.cpp src/loadGLTF.cpp src/glcontext.cpp
OBJS := $(SRCS:src/%.cpp=$(OUTPUT)/%.o)
DEPS := $(OBJS:.o=.d)

$(shell mkdir -p $(OUTPUT))
all: $(OUTPUT)/a.exe

$(OUTPUT)/a.exe: $(OBJS)
    $(CXX) $(OBJS) -g -o $@ $(LDFLAGS)

$(OUTPUT)/%.o: src/%.cpp
    $(CXX) $(CXXFLAGS) -c $< -o $@

-include $(DEPS)

[sage crag]

as ive seen, separating Writers and Readers into individual APIs tends to fragment IO and it would make it nearly impossible to do something like async cohesively

[opaque sigil]

might wanna remove the targets

[tender river]

oh right there is also the problem of some operations not necessarily being supported (like seek) but honestly this can jut be solved with an $if + @error

[olive sable]

now it just cant open SDL2 for some reason

[sage crag]

mhm exactly, if something doesnt implement a function it just stubs it with a compile error

[olive sable]

deos sdl2 depend on the compielr?

[opaque sigil]

it shouldn't

i think?

[sage crag]

i actually wasnt aware that zig was doing this. is this their answer to function colouring?

[opaque sigil]

yeah, one giant interface that contains everything that can block the main thread apparently

[sage crag]

hm

i think futures are doable in hblang

i wonder if its worth the complexity