programming

[uneven pulsar]

and my copilot was on crack forgot what was he doing

to debug and fix

[noble zodiac]

so what did you learn?

[uneven pulsar]

that it wont work from the first time AND SETTING UP ENV ARE SHIt

like I INSTALLED MAT LAB AND MY ENV WAS SAYING MAtlap doesn't exist as a module

AND if it works then it works

[stark needle]

Make chatgpt generate the slot machine results

nah lmao

[uneven pulsar]

idk whats that but congrats

oh wait real estate app smt?

[opaque sigil]

I feel like there was a misunderstanding somewhere, MATLAB has nothing to do with python whatsoever

[noble zodiac]

vibe coding leading to misunderstandings? aint no way

[tight tinsel]

classic 1 letter misspelling

[tight tinsel]

try import matplotlib.pyplot as plt

[opaque sigil]

Well judging from the plot above they did figure it out in the end

[stark needle]

it's a sarcastic joke lol

making fun of actual garbage scam products

[fast pagoda]

he was boutta purchase your whole stock

[uneven pulsar]

i did figure it out

and i dont vibe code

[noble zodiac]

[uneven pulsar]

i only vibe code when my library isn't working

most of the type i use free ai models not payed most stupuid at most time

[noble zodiac]

so you do

[uneven pulsar]

haa

i should deleted co pilot

[sour harness]

remove copilot embrace cursor

[wary rover]

I wonder how emojis and fonts work in the realm of internet. Like, I can swear that skull emoji looked different on youtube before. Can they just change the way emojis look? Also there are like 5 different emoji systems for different firmwares of Android and IOS

[stark needle]

:niuh:

[rigid snow]

remember: vibecoding is when you don’t look at the code at all, and let the ai figure everything out

if you start reading the code it stops being “vibecoding” and starts being “pair programming with a lobotomy victim”

[noble zodiac]

if you understand it, maybe

[opaque wharf]

I wonder what shiro is doing

[fast pagoda]

troubleshooting++ as you have a 500wpm dingbat there just ruining everything if you're not careful

[wary rover]

In my limited experience with deepseek its like trying to cooperate with a character with maxed out intelligence but 0 wisdom. It knows infinitely more than you, has data about quadrillion different ways things can be done, but all this knowledge is so deattached from reality and your specific issue, that it barely helps you, and if it does it just deviates from your vision of the solution. So the best way to utilize it is to ask it to info dump on you about very specific issue or topic and make your judgement based on that

[warped narwhal]

emoji's are just certain unicode codepoints, so each font can have it's own version of all the emojis (with a fallback to the default font for any they don't supply themselves)

and since most fonts don't have emojis, the system one gets used the most, so that's why it will usually be consistant over your whole device, but not between devices

[wary rover]

Yeah, realized that it can work like this 2 minutes after I wrote down the question. Rubber duck method is real

But thanks for confirmation

[warped narwhal]

You are a true developer now, congratulations! 🥳

[wary rover]

Wont be worthy of this title for a long time, but thanks for a compliment

[stark needle]

Celebrating their birthday

[olive sable]

Goodmorning

[near sundial]

Morning

[tulip ermine]

Chat DM me something you know and no one else does

I asked the last server this I'm just curious

[opaque wharf]

How to get cursed shit 101

[wary rover]

I have no original thoughts, ideas or information. I'm an NPC

[opaque sigil]

no thought, head empty

[tulip ermine]

I just built a life sized Neuro-sama using servo motors

I really need a life

😭

[wary rover]

Picture/video proof or you are lying (Just want to see this cool build of yours)

[tulip ermine]

Okay

[tight tinsel]

i got my main laptop on my desk, my second laptop on top of my pc and my pc on the floor

the wiring is already a mess

[tulip ermine]

How TF do I send if it isn't working

[tight tinsel]

and i still need to run some usb chargers to the desk

embed perms

[tulip ermine]

That's fucked

[tight tinsel]

yap more

[tulip ermine]

I always trip on my charger

[tight tinsel]

smt like this

[tulip ermine]

Im giggling bro

Best drawing

[tight tinsel]

and i have some old lanyards and a small bag hanging off the screws that are poking out the desk (its very old)

rest of the desk is my books

i need to get a friend to make me a shelf or something in the future

[wary rover]

Oh, yeah, i forgot that it takes a while to get embed perms. This sucks, but it helps moderation and such, so yeah

No Neuro animatronic pics for us :(

[tulip ermine]

I'll figure something out

Let me see

[wary rover]

You'll get the perms later naturally, so don't worry bout that

[tulip ermine]

Oh alr

[tight tinsel]

dm someone and ask them to foward it here

[tulip ermine]

Yeah I was gonna try that then probably eat some cookies

Also I'm curious what's all the wiring for

Do u have any cool projects

OH I have the blueprint in text so I'll just send u guys the materials and stuff

[wary rover]

I mean, I draw sometimes. The closest thing I have to cool project

[tulip ermine]

🤧 I wanna see your absolute masterpiece of a drawing

I can only draw a perfect circle

[tight tinsel]

me? i do have some projects but not related to my horrid setup

"cool project"

[wary rover]

This is not an art channel, but I think it's fine if I post a single pic

(I have no idea how to draw cats, so its a fluffy caterpillar with a face of a cat)

[tulip ermine]

I've spent 2 minutes looking at that

This is a masterpiece

I wonder if u can send long text because I wanted to send the materials for my Project

[wary rover]

I have a book on structural anatomy and how to draw human bodies, but I only read a part about bones and kinda gave up when things came to muscles and everything on top of them, so now I can draw realistic skeletons, but not people

[wary rover]

I think you should be able to

[tulip ermine]

Okay let me grab it out of my notes tab brb

[opaque wharf]

Suffering from success

[tulip ermine]

Shitty wifi is making my phone load 20x slower 😭

Almost done

[tiny mango]

mushroom's cracked at art ? !

[wary rover]

I mean, I usually never give up on something that I start, but drawing is kinda an exception, cause I picked it up at very not good time in my life, so I have this weird psychological block when I want to draw something again

[tight tinsel]

now thats my new excuse for why i havent drawn shit

[tulip ermine]

Why TF are u so good with one liners

OH ITS LOADING NOW

[tight tinsel]

meh its a messaging app i put almost no effort into typing shit

[tulip ermine]

you me when u said meh.

FUCK

you lost me

[tight tinsel]

i lost my chemistry notes

im so fucked

[wary rover]

Imagine it loads and its this

[tulip ermine]

Im probably never gonna drop out even though I haven't turned in anything

[tight tinsel]

well im gonna go set up the second laptop now

i have to optimise the shit out of it since its for school and i dont want to deal with 1 fps browser while trying to do anything

[tulip ermine]

Its literally just a gray canvas right now

[bright scaffold]

Help me someone please...

[wary rover]

Chemistry and the way its taught almost everywhere is got to be the hardest science to learn

[tiny mango]

just like. in general?

[bright scaffold]

I have prismlauncher and my resourcepack for minecraft...
It looks good on the modrinth site and on the github page but why does it look so there?

[stark needle]

This gives me ptsd

[sage crag]

[tiny mango]

if you make the window larger, does the pixel art move?

[bright scaffold]

It shoud looks like it

[tiny mango]

styling for the art is prob set to relative rather than absolute to fit to your screen

once you make it smaller, it will crowd other elements

it's expected behavior but not what you want

[olive sable]

aight my pc is back toghether

[tulip ermine]

YESSS IT LOADED

but it's taking forever

[tiny mango]

I think just gpt it and say what I did, I haven't done CSS styling in a few years

[bright scaffold]

Its a markdown

Not html

[tiny mango]

oh my bad, i didn't look closely enough lmao

let me take a crack at it

[sage crag]

you used html flags for the png tho. you can embed css if you want.

[bright scaffold]

I just need set it in the center but idk how to do it with md formatting

[wary rover]

Reminds me of the time I first got internet access and it used a usb thumb drive looking modem that was blessing me with lightning fast 2g internet connection. Back when youtube didnt have a load limit and you could go have a dinner and when you would come back after 20 minutes your 3 minute long video would be fully loaded in crystal clear 480p

[tiny mango]

can you send the text for the div containing the image?

[tulip ermine]

Uh guys I named the file FTF hotswap and it's gone ..I have no clue what I did with it but I can't find it and I have to many accounts to check

Im fuckedd

[bright scaffold]

Find it there

https://github.com/ami-amai/neurosama-of-undying

[wary rover]

You'll find it eventually, dont worry

[tulip ermine]

Sam Make a Clip Logger that clips unhinged messages and logs it onto a uhh what's it called again webhook.

[bright scaffold]

Inside the raw README.md

[tiny mango]

<div style="text-align: center;">
<img src=replace style="width: 100px; max-width: 100%; height: auto; margin-bottom: 1em;">
<h1>Neuro-Sama of Undying</h1>
<h4>Resourcepack for the Minecraft</h4>
<p>Bored with your usual Totem of Undying? Replace it with Neuro-Sama or her friends!</p>
</div>

tryyyyy that, fix the image bc I used a random screenshot I had on hand

[wary rover]

Web-related coding looks a bit friendlier than what I am trying to learn

Why am I clueless

[tiny mango]

css styling is like wading through spaghetti

never will I ever be a front-end dev

or maybe I'm just bad at it

[bright scaffold]

thx so much

[tiny mango]

Yep!

[bright scaffold]

It fixed then i set height to auto

[wary rover]

Spaghetti would be a good match for my code sausages

[opaque sigil]

tailwind helps a lot but still

[bright scaffold]

or...

[tiny mango]

The padding at the bottom is just to keep it separate from the text

[bright scaffold]

Because i used style

[tiny mango]

so the style in the top div is going to apply to everything inside of it

you basically just don't have to repeat align: center in another spot

the inline styling I added to the image is specific to the image

[wary rover]

Its so satisfying to see people seeing through the issue you have and just knowing how to fix it

[tiny mango]

Oh my head is huge from immediately asking the right question

just as magical from the other end

[bright scaffold]

I confused

[wary rover]

Yeah, asking a right question is definitely very important. I am more of a public speech/human-to-human communication person and used to throw words I barely understand together to achieve the result I want. But this crap won't fly in the realm of coding. Had a bit of a whiplash with this

[bright scaffold]

It looks normal only when i dont change anything like width or height

[tiny mango]

then don't

[tiny mango]

definitely been there, engineering pushes you to be a lot more concise in communicating ideas

[near sundial]

Does anyone know any similar coding to a nextbot?

[wary rover]

or just go mechanic's rout and replace all nouns with "shit". "This shit is supposed to see this shit right here, but it doesn't. Why the fuck it doesn't?"

[near sundial]

Like pathing

[tiny mango]

funny enough exactly this is done with senior engineers

[fast pagoda]

ive been fighting with cloudflare for like 5 hours

more if im not coping

but im coping

[wary rover]

Rule number 1: everything breaks
Rule number 2: If something doesn't break it doesn't work like you need it to
Rule number 3: If it works like you need it to, it only pretends to do so to screw you over when you least expect it

Applies to any job where you need to interact or create any sort of system

[opaque sigil]

[insert obligatory rust/nix fixes this]

[wary rover]

I wish rust could fix my lack of knowledge on how rust works. But unfortunately (or fortunately) I am the only one who can fix this

I just wish there was more content on programming that is made for beginners by people who remember how does it feel to be a beginner. A lot of guys I watched were really precise and informative, sure, but I was feeling that they don't really understand where the roadblock in understanding might be. They are overexplaining the obvious, while brushing over critical information for someone that never touched coding. Thinking of starting a diary of problems that I faced and revelations that helped me to resolve those to make a youtube series like "Rust for a beginner, made by a beginner". Sure, there would be a lot of inaccuracies and such, but it's a starting point that would be much more compelling. Like with human languages: you don't start learning from ultra-fundamental linguistical scientific concepts. You just throw shit together, following very basic rules, then you learn specifics and exceptions, and when you are good enough you realize that rules are meant to be broken and you can freestylo whatever the hell you want as long as you fundamentally understand what are you doing

[tight tinsel]

so uh

looks like i forgot to actually turn off my lapto

glad to know its been draining power for the entire month basically

[fast pagoda]

i have found over the years it's a spectrum from

babby's first hello world, informative and engaging but it's the easiest shit of all time and geared towards clueless people

-> dogshit clickbait for anything in the "intermediate" levels of intrigue

-> informative and engaging stuff for high level

so if you're in the middle it's over

[opaque sigil]

the middle is nice for when i'm bored and browse yt at 3am

[fast pagoda]

every time ive seen like mid tier middle level content i would never ever in my life watch those videos just off the thumbnail and lack of pedigree of their makers alone

[opaque sigil]

half the time i quit about 10 seconds in tbf

[fast pagoda]

yeah exactly

ive learned that i do that every time so i dont bother anymore

on sight

[bright scaffold]

I fixed all

It looks so rn

[wary rover]

I feel like some programmers trying to teach beginners automatically switch into programmer mode and try to "code" understanding into the viewer. They will go into every possible crevice of the very basic code, talk about every possible fault that can occur, making sure that no possible behavior is left untouched, be as precise in wording as possible to eradicate all double meanings, use no analogies, use no reference to the concepts that commoners operate with and so on so forth. I feel like its wrong approach to teaching. Like human beings are not robots and you don't have to "pre-program" them with knowledge of every possible outcome of their coding choices. You won't be the only source of information they consume, just present difficult concepts in a form that you feel would resonate with them and connect nicely with basic knowledge and common sense that most of the people have

[olive sable]

Idk how to do that lmao

[fast pagoda]

this is me explaining literally anything

and it's not on purpose

i just yap like you wouldnt believe

it's genuinely trying to be helpful but the person just isn't recognizing the audience

it's hard to put yourself in a mindset where you don't know something that is inherent to your every day understanding and life

[opaque wharf]

Sam web dev arc when?

[fast pagoda]

i spent the last 5+ hours redoing the preceeding 5 hours of work when i tried to move my cloudflare page from the page deployment onto my backend worker's deployment

i love the internet

[wary rover]

I do understand it, it's very similar to parents/adults not being able to understand how does the mind of their child works. They fail to reason with another human being with a different paradigm and rely on authority to "pre-program" a child with a behavior that might be objectively correct, but information about it is not "natively supported" by the child, so it backfires in a multitude of unimaginable ways

[fast pagoda]

yep

i have to catch myself with my own employees at work

because i'm in training now

and i end up just infodumping

trying to be helpful

but it just confuses the shit out of them at best

they just dont have the contextual ability to even sort or process the info

due to lack of previous experience

not their fault

[tulip ermine]

I just had a argument with a prosthetic 12 year old

I feel amazing

[wary rover]

I teach children English as a side hustle and the first thing I do is i layout the logic of a grammatical tense for example in my mind and then I define keysteps to understanding it, the bare minimum required, a skeleton of the concept. i describe it through analogies, turn nouns, verbs and other words into characters that have human-like traits and relationships with each other that a child can relate to and understand. Then when things come to exceptions I "antagonize" them a bit, making sure that I am not a medium that channels difficulties and struggles onto a child, but an ally, a person that fights the difficulty along side them. But I've been fighting for much longer than a child had, I know the "attack pattern" of the "evil exception", I know what can be memorized through association, what must be just memorized without any comprehensive reason. That way child naturally trusts me, not rejecting what I say, do not turn their brain off and give up. There is me along side them, they can rely on me to get where I am at

[tulip ermine]

Can u give an example

[fast pagoda]

like his age was prosthetic or

[tulip ermine]

It was a disabled child

[fast pagoda]

go get em champ

[tulip ermine]

Gotta teach em Young

[fast pagoda]

https://tenor.com/view/just-kidding-gif-1750277962314463109

[tulip ermine]

Dangg they have a good filter

What if I say American

Hmm

What about America

That's insane

I thought it just flags when someone brought up countrys

Or states

[wary rover]

Bro is on that Neuro grind. Bypassing the filter

[fast pagoda]

i get so mad when the filter snipes me for like half a word

just keep deploying

[tulip ermine]

LOL

[fast pagoda]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaand zepplin

i got got for mentioning what got autofiltered before so i'd be careful

[tulip ermine]

Alright

Now it's like nothing happened

[fast pagoda]

[tulip ermine]

Unless they have a bot that logs everything

[wary rover]

Here we border a fine line between geography and politics. There is nothing inherently bad about it, but it just bound to cause toxic discourse that will not lead to anything other than toxicity, so the automod is designed to cut stuff like that by the roots

[tulip ermine]

Im fucked

anyway

[fast pagoda]

https://tenor.com/view/sauron-lotr-lord-of-the-rings-mordor-the-eye-gif-5619682

[tulip ermine]

Is it possible to get banned off the Internet I thought the NSA just like works like uhm if your ip hits one of their proxy servers they ban u permanently

Your basically fucked

[wary rover]

Very perplexing question to say the least. General rule of a thumb - read the room, don't do stupid stuff

[tulip ermine]

Honestly the best answer

[fast pagoda]

im behind 7 proxies or somethign

im actually so not

i barely avoid doxxing myself daily

[tulip ermine]

❔❕ I always thought these emojis looked cool

[fast pagoda]

biome check --write --unsafe what's the worst that'll happen? Codebase:

[wary rover]

My attitude towards doxxing changed so much since I was a teen. When I was like 14 I had 10 layers of bullshit on top everything and 20 contingency plans like a Batman for the fake scenarios that will never happen and now I just agree to anything, put my information into random services for a single use of those, don't really care if I doxx myself or get doxxed, cause fuck it. You worked so much to find out where I live, come pay a visit. I have moonshine and a stash of dried fish, come on Saturday and we are partying

[fast pagoda]

pretty much me irl

google can probably predict the next time i'll have a sniffle

with how much data they have on me

wtf WSL

[wary rover]

I started learining how to code and the only thing I did was a couple of messages here and a few google searches on basic stuff. 20 minutes after opening VS Code my youtube homepage was flooded with coding youtubers talking specifically about rust

[fast pagoda]

the pipeline

[opaque sigil]

[fast pagoda]

vthink the ol vscode just needs a good restart

aaaaa

[wary rover]

I've made an experiment of dubious accuracy after this where I'd google stuff about gardening and best plants to buy as a beginner gardener and right after this I went full conspiracy theorist tinfoil hat and spent 20 minutes googling "Is google spying on me?" "How google uses my data" and so on. The only thing I am saying is that I didn't have a lot of gardening videos on my youtube page after

[fast pagoda]

the thing is they dont care and simultaneously werent even spying, but they just have so much data that their shit predicted you would be doing that at that time and served content accordingly

rehoboam

[wary rover]

rehoboam?

[fast pagoda]

it's from westworld

a fictional "quantum AI" computer thing that basically has so much data and information processing capacity that it can simultaneously predict & influence the path of every person on earth's life

[wary rover]

What would happen if a rehoboam number 2 was tasked with simulating activity of numerous people in the web that was built and launched by a force independent from the force that launched rehoboam 1?

[fast pagoda]

well it'd be able to tell that was happening and act to prevent it

before #2 ever came around

[wary rover]

"But Major, now they will be able to plan around our plan!"
"Ah, but it IS the plan! Now that they know about our plan they will be planning around it, so we must plan around the plan that they are planning around our plan!"
"Your brilliance knows no bounds!"

[wary rover]

What if I tie every choice to a physical even like a coin flip? It was programmed to simulate and predict human behavior and not to make a simulation of the universe that it definitelly can't do, because for that to happen it must be larger than the universe itself?

[fast pagoda]

it would know you'd do that and accept the element of randomness with your actions in particular

and probably try to kill yo ass

[wary rover]

Imagine like an army is launching an attack on the territory of a country that has a technology like this, and throwing all tactics and strategy out of the window, give all troops weapons and a bag of coins. Commanders flip a coin every 5 minutes and if it's heads they command all lower ranking officers to commence a coinflip, if it's tails they just wait 5 more minutes. This chain of command goes down to privates in the infantry where they flip a coin to either do nothing or do whatever the hell they want

[rigid snow]

?? your ip isn’t tied to your person? just switch isps or go use mcdonalds wifi??

[fast pagoda]

i got neuralink and they done banned my cerebrum from facebook

[wary rover]

Got my neuralink installed today and 20 minutes later someone punched a fork bomb into it's powershell. Had to reupload my thinking patterns from the cloud

[olive sable]

Emscripten is enough webdev for me

Welp, im off the kroatia

[green night]

I don't fucking know someone I know just told me that

Also I'm Bon

[olive sable]

[wary rover]

The discord puppeteer Bon

[green night]

🗨️

[wary rover]

Multiple of avatars of the same being

[green night]

My wifi is so trash without me being near it 24/7 that all I see is a blank white background of your message

[olive sable]

[wary rover]

This is an emoji representing confusion

[green night]

OKAY ITS FINALLY LOADING

[wary rover]

This is an emoji representing laugh

[wary rover]

This is a sticker where Evil is showing a middle finger

[green night]

Also someone taught me how they get ip's and I just its a waste of fucking time because what do u mean u have to use 4 different links on your own website with a block45 whatever, make them execute a script or something make them download a file, check if it's actually running. When u can just search their name on Google and their entire family tree pops up

[wary rover]

Netstalking is indeed more simple and accessible, but you have to know their real name

[tulip ermine]

So true other me from the future

🤑🤑

[wary rover]

Oh god remember I had a misfortune of using a dating app once. Found a girl, texting each other from time to time, then she sends a photo of me when I was like 8 from a social media that my parents used and posted a picture of me there, asking "who is this girl next to you". It was my cousin and she is like 6 on this photo. Deleted everything, cut all communication and never made a profile ever again

[tulip ermine]

How do u know this.. 👽

[olive sable]

More vulkan reading on train

[wary rover]

I was a technically a subject to it and I was good friends with girls in my high school class and the sheer amount of digging through instagram and other social media that they would do on each other "for sports" was insane

[tulip ermine]

I somehow used Google earth to track someone down before

[olive sable]

"I used to do cyberstalking"

[wary rover]

We would come to discord to play PUBG then after a couple of matches we would just hang around to gossip over school stuff, but it would always result in me learning some cursed shit about a girl from another school that I never heard off, girls that I am in discord with me also barely know her, so they would just go netstalking on her and dig every bit of her personal life for fun as I would sit there in awe and morbid curiousity

[tulip ermine]

Yeah your exactly right I used to do cyber stalking but it isn't worth it if everyone can do it. And we do think it's for sport that it's "fun" and we brainwash ourselves that it isn't doing harm to anyone

[real sierra]

programming channel

im once again here for ideas

[olive sable]

[real sierra]

so i own this game https://store.steampowered.com/app/464350/Screeps_World/

Steam

Screeps: World

Screeps: World is an open source MMO RTS sandbox game. With all the attributes of a full-fledged strategy game, you control your colony by writing script that operates 24/7 in the single persistent open world filled by other players on par with you.

Your colony can harvest resources, build units, conquer territory, trade with other colonies.…

Price

$7.49

Recommendations

1832

▶ Play video

[faint sandal]

[tender river]

good timing you might want to backread the last 2 hours just in case

[real sierra]

tldr its an RTS but instead of playing it, you write an AI that plays it for you

[olive sable]

Hmmm

Interesting

[wary rover]

baba is RTS

[real sierra]

what the heck am i looking at

did you guys forget its programming channel

[tender river]

i don't know

[real sierra]

please keep it at least slightly technical talk related

[tender river]

i mean it doesnt have to be

[real sierra]

edited for semantics

point still holds

[faint sandal]

jimbo jumbo

[real sierra]

anyway what was i asking again

right

[real sierra]

what would be a good paradigm to try and write an AI around

the game is incredibly complex with a number of things to manage

previously i had tried a top-down approach of coming up with some broad stroke strategic metrics and trying to boil those down to unit counts, movements, etc.

and that was really difficult

so im wondering if something more decentralized would be better

[tender river]

well, in general "AI" obviously, you can go with classic AI (like rules engines) or something more modern

[real sierra]

a rules engine would be pretty complicated here with all the systems at work i feel

there's units, structures, a whole map, upgrades for the units and structures, a marketplace, combat between units, resources to extract, terrain

hell even the units' capabilities are fully modular

[olive sable]

My own aproach would be to get more of something if there is a defecit, and if all recources are met we go to war and anex some places.
If im understanding the game correctly

[real sierra]

i find it hard to grasp any useful metric for figuring out how much of something would be beneficial, or how to best allocate resources

[warped narwhal]

oh there is an interesting youtube video you should watch about something similar shiro, gib 1 sec and I'll find it

[real sierra]

not a bad idea

there are some gotchas

per time step, you only get so much compute

and there's memory limits too

compute is sufficiently limited that they can offer a payment plan for more and make a profit so i think its worth worrying about

[tender river]

expert systems were all the rage in 1980s so i think complicated rules engines should be pretty well studied but i'm not exactly knowledgeable on the topic

[olive sable]

Ah, hmmm. Thats an interesting game. So you also have to manage memory and compute plus the recources and people.
Also need to defend and attack too.

[stray dragon]

memory and compute being resources to worry about in an rts is kinda crazy lol

[olive sable]

I mike it tho

[real sierra]

resources are even worse than you think

[wary rover]

Is it a centralized command system, or does it make it so every colony that you create is an independent system? If the second is true, I think it would've been a bit eaiser to create a template of behaviour for general strategic role of each colony and switch them when necessary. Like, I haven't seen the game, so I'm just making stuff up

[stray dragon]

very interesting, yeah

[real sierra]

resources are not centralized in some ethereal storage

[opaque wharf]

That game is open source too IIRC

[real sierra]

when you collect them from the world, you need units to transport them physically to storage

...which you also have to build

so theres a logistics overhead and a need to lay out your buildings reasonably

[olive sable]

Its time for me elite memory managment skills
(Everthing ive made so far has memory leaks)

[stray dragon]

it's also got logistics?? damn that's gonna have some interesting strategies

[desert wave]

memory management: cronjob to restart once a day

[real sierra]

each player has a single ai that manages all of their units and structures

but you could of course structure your AI such that it manages separate regions independently

[opaque wharf]

Oh nvm, just the server
https://github.com/screeps

[real sierra]

the game runs relatively slowly but it runs 24/7

so your AI will be hard at work even while you're asleep

[olive sable]

[real sierra]

the server is open source so you can host a private one with friends if desired

[olive sable]

Server based or just checks current time and does that many steps?

[real sierra]

server based i believe

the game is an MMO

[opaque wharf]

By the way, can you pin a message in the Neurobot-1000 threads. We have github pages now to centralize the effort

[olive sable]

So no offline mode then ig

Ok

[real sierra]

intended to be played on a huge public server

there is an offline mode for testing but

its just you

lol

[opaque wharf]

Offline mode is just you running on your own server

[olive sable]

[real sierra]

wait what am i pinning?

[opaque wharf]

So not the fun of it

[opaque wharf]

The github pages address. I'll bring it up on the threads

[warped narwhal]

fuck, that took ages to find as it has been years since I watched it, but here is the video you should watch shiro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3tRFayqVtk

[real sierra]

oh that thread

[opaque wharf]

This one

[wary rover]

Depends on the balance of the game then. Some RTS games are biased towards resource/economy domination, some are biased towards military power. Meta-solution, but it would make sense to figure out this bias first and structure the whole AI around maintaining bare minimum of less important of these two

[real sierra]

pinned it there

[opaque wharf]

Thanks, appreciate it and Happy Birthday

[tender river]

https://christophermpark.blogspot.com/2009/06/designing-emergent-ai-part-1.html

[real sierra]

no problem, glad to help and curse of ra

[tender river]

this is for gamedev though

so the goals are different

should still be an interesting read

[real sierra]

this turns out to be rather difficult given the flexibility of the game

it's incredibly granular

for example, units are constructed from a set of pre-defined "parts", you can make a unit with any combination of said parts so long as you meet the various conditions associated (e.g. cost)

[opaque wharf]

Yeah, the best strategy is to somehow make emergent behaviour

[opaque wharf]

Single focused algorithm for every small part that somehow can work together on the bigger scale

[real sierra]

i do like that idea more than what i was trying before

[stray dragon]

god the solutions are so open-ended

will keep an eye on this game

[real sierra]

we haven't even gotten to the market yet

[tender river]

i think in this case its best to hardcode "fleet" arrangements

[tender river]

perhaps also hardcode some formations

[real sierra]

there's also crafting with particular resources

and then there's the actual topology of the game world

[opaque wharf]

Wargame training for Neuro-sama

[wary rover]

the end goal here seems to be something like grey goo. A swarm of creeps that consists of structural units that are capable of all tasks listed with a behavior where they move to new land, fight whatever must be fought, claim and process resources and then self-replicate to continue the cycle

[real sierra]

i think my biggest question is like

how much of the desired behaviour should really be done emergently

[stray dragon]

programmed ants or something

[real sierra]

a lot of this macroscopic behaviour seems like it's easier done top-down

[real sierra]

i considered this but things like pheromones are kinda tedious on the whole memory overhead

[stray dragon]

fair

[tender river]

imo, emergent doesnt mean bottom-up

[stray dragon]

there are factorio mods that do it though, no?

[opaque wharf]

Between emergent and having a chain of command, which one do you think will work best?

[real sierra]

chain of command

maybe i want individualism

ill invent serfs and landlords

all my units must pay taxes to supreme leader

surely this will create society emergently

[stray dragon]

that isn't a bad idea actually wtf

[opaque wharf]

I'm just thinking about a real wargame lol

[real sierra]

the game is half off right now, its only a few dollars and definitely worth it

[tender river]

#ad

[real sierra]

the docs are here if you want to know more about the game without spending money https://docs.screeps.com/index.html

[opaque wharf]

Caught in 1080p

[real sierra]

this is the only group of people this game would sound remotely interesting to

how else am i gonna get friends who play it

[opaque wharf]

Turns out, I already have it

[wary rover]

Maybe a mold build would work? When an area is occupied and well-developed it sends "spores" onto a distance of choice and initiate logistic bridges to them (or spores can make those as they move), spores develop into more "mold" territory and cycle repeats

[real sierra]

wtf

[stray dragon]

but yeah chain of command does help to constrain the solution space, different classes focus on different things

[real sierra]

computed_fn you're my new favourite member of #programming

[real sierra]

oh god dont bring up logistics

i just remembered roads exist

the task of "build a road from A to B" is surprisingly difficult

[tender river]

use the stellaris AI approach (just builds roads everywhere you can) surely thats the best option

[real sierra]

its worse than that

the game runs in discrete time steps

and you cant have two units on the same tile

so you need to plan your constructions with routes for your units

and have their AI be intelligent enough to stay on their side of the road

or you get gridlock

many times ive had two units walk into a one-wide hallway trying to go opposite directions

and just get stuck staring at each other with no path to their goals

[stray dragon]

a kind of watered-down pheremone system only for units that do logistics might work

instead of keeping track of a pheremone per-tile it does it per bunch of tiles

[tender river]

also use bit masks

though its a bit more annoying in js

[real sierra]

i would probably just keep a list of phermone positions and ranges

and then when you need to calculate it, you go through the list and account for every phermone whose range you are in, with effect falling off linearly with distance

[tender river]

but then wouldnt the game self balance to nerf those who control a lot of territory/units because of lacking cpu/memory to control it well

[stray dragon]

that works too

[stray dragon]

microing units doesn't usually beat economy, but it is a factor to consider

[fast pagoda]

oooh ai rts i was idly pondering trying to work on one of those the other day and then ended up schizoing on r/place clone

[real sierra]

(to be clear, "20 CPU" does not mean processor count)

[real sierra]

yes im trying to figure out how i wanna approach my next attempt

[stark needle]

hello moderators i will commit 37 crimes and break all rules in a single message 😊

[olive sable]

[real sierra]

i would really rather you did something else honestly

[olive sable]

Shadow going through his banned arc

[fast pagoda]

it's a big undertaking

have you tried before

sounds like you have but

[real sierra]

yeah

started to not like my approach by the end tho

[stark needle]

What if my dream was to get a warning by Zeppilin

[fast pagoda]

last time i was thinkin i was leaning more towards a persistent world with more of an llm (or llm(s)) acting as some sort of natural force according to a corpus of world lore that they can influence but not completely overwrite on a whim

[stark needle]

so like something like that sims clone?

what was it called

Uh

inzoi

[fast pagoda]

[fast pagoda]

is that what that was

[real sierra]

i still have the code from my last attempt

[fast pagoda]

it looked like an r18 game

[dry charm]

please use a git rm script

don't commit deletion

(if you can force push that is)

[rigid snow]

nuke the history

[fast pagoda]

i already git rm -r -f cached .

[dry charm]

that is not enough

[fast pagoda]

i know that's just staged but

i was like fuk it

[rigid snow]

right, you should blowtorch your pc too for good measure

[fast pagoda]

it's my own repo on a shitter branch anyways

[stark needle]

No

Inzoi is sims 4 competitor

[dry charm]

No, I meant this https://github.com/newren/git-filter-repo

[stark needle]

But a LLM controls the npcs

Or something

[rigid snow]

?

[fast pagoda]

ive used this once and it resulted in a total nightmare

skill issue definitely

but

im good

unless i will absolutely lose a ton of work without fixing it

the best thing about using cloudflare workers so far has been being able to run bunx wrangler deploy and similar over and over

wrangler is a great package name

[fast pagoda]

interesting

i bought into the kickstarter for some game called my robot where you build robot anime grills and they are controlled by llms

that was neat for like 30 mins

too early when i tried it tho

[real sierra]

what would be some good emergent behaviour rules

wheres that thing chayleaf linked

[opaque wharf]

if (goingToCrash) {
  dont();
}

Also some of y'all need this game
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1490570/git_gud/

Steam

git gud

git gud is a terminal-styled puzzle game that teaches you Git the fun way—through 100 levels of increasingly complex word problems that challenge your version control skills. Each level drops you into a realistic scenario: from staging your first commit and branching out new features, to resolving merge conflicts, rolling back mistakes, and ma…

Price

$2.99

▶ Play video

[fast pagoda]

im going to go insane

[opaque wharf]

There's also this
https://vim-adventures.com/

[stark needle]

I bought into the kickstarter of

Some keyboard that is like 2 or 3 years late

[fast pagoda]

kek

kickstarter moment

[opaque sigil]

that's just the average group buy experience

not late ig

[fast pagoda]

i used to love massdrop but the year long waits for nothing and getting refunded (sometimes) made me stop

for headphones

[tiny mango]

for linux(I think?) there's also MIT's Terminus

[stark needle]

Hd58x my beloved

[hoary lion]

grr

my fuckass 3070 is not doing its job

it does NOT want to run any heavy games lmao

updated vbios

[opaque wharf]

Nice

[hoary lion]

genuinely tweaking after 6 restarts and 4 forced shutdowns

now it should be fixed

[olive sable]

[opaque wharf]

Aw man, now there will be less Sam code shenanigans

[olive sable]

Ye ill be on vacation for 2 weeks

Guess in which city i am rn

[nocturne olive]

VRAM SMOL

[hoary lion]

not that issue i think

tried with war thunder

[opaque wharf]

Did you end up sending the GPU via your mother or later after the holiday?

[hoary lion]

it is not that vram heavy

[olive sable]

Mother will send it ye

[opaque wharf]

That's why superbox seems a bit excited lol

[olive sable]

[nocturne olive]

Silly

[stark needle]

Who would not be excited about a rtx 3090

lmao

[real sierra]

how will you help me with my poorly scoped problems

[sage crag]

shro

[real sierra]

konii

[sage crag]

[opaque wharf]

Now kith

[nocturne olive]

True, that thing is gonna be so useful

[hoary lion]

hmm

it seems like there is no more livekernelevent caused by gpu

need to test more with extra settings on war thunder

oh yes

seems like it was indeed, old vbios

[gritty dust]

@olive sable I sent my dad peak stuff

He has to buy it now

(this was what I sent him lol

[sage crag]

beedol

[warped narwhal]

The funky town ones are the funniest

[gritty dust]

He said yes but that's when it was 40$ now it's 60$ with shipping so I needed some extra convincing

Lol

[fast pagoda]

gemini after a solid 45 minutes of banging head against the wall makes me laugh

[olive sable]

Ill dtill be here daily, just no c++ warcrimes

[gritty dust]

Bro my dad said vee dle like neuro not vedal lol

[fast pagoda]

peedle

hehehe

get it

[gritty dust]

And my dad said neuro Sama as "neuro say me" wtfff hahaha

I'm dying

[olive sable]

[real sierra]

is there even a point in coming here without those

thats what gets me out of bed every morning

the promise of c++ war crimes

[olive sable]

I do have my laptop with me, but i doubt ill have enough time to do any programming

Im learning vulkan now tho

[sage crag]

raw vulkan?

[olive sable]

Soon ill be commiting warcrimes on both cpu and gpu

[olive sable]

I downloaded the pdf of the thingy

[sage crag]

bwa

[olive sable]

When vulkan support on ableOS?

[sage crag]

funny you should ask

aos will support vulkan

[olive sable]

[real sierra]

how do i decide how many units to make

[sage crag]

unit is unity is 1

[real sierra]

do i just spend all available resources on new units and expand endlessly

[sage crag]

[real sierra]

but i need to save some resources for structures too

[olive sable]

Make 1.5x as much as your enemy

[sage crag]

1 unit

[real sierra]

idk how much my enemy has

game has fog of war too

[olive sable]

Uhhh

As much as your city can support i guess?

[real sierra]

units dont have an upkeep cost

instead they die after a period of time

[olive sable]

Ph

Hmmm

Ig use half your recources on it?

[real sierra]

what does it even mean to use "half" my resources on units

like

do i fill my storages to half capacity before making more units?

[olive sable]

Idk, i dont play that game. But you said recourses here

[real sierra]

you make a completely reasonable point

i need someone to master this game and teach it to me

[hoary lion]

update: It still fucking gives up to display when load

im just gonna drop my settings

😭

[olive sable]

@opaque wharf

[real sierra]

maybe the play is

no actually i dont know

i have no idea

[olive sable]

I think your 3070 is dying. Check if its a psu issue? Maybe judt bad connection?

[real sierra]

this is so simple to do as a human meat sack why is it so hard to codify it

[hoary lion]

probably, it indeed is not so good psu

it is only 800w

80 plus bronz

[olive sable]

Were pretty adaptive to the situation at hand. Its hard to code that but 2nd nature for us

Actually, 1st nature

Thats just how a human works

[hoary lion]

no idea on what should it be

or how to test the psu

[stark needle]

Who dare pinging me

[hoary lion]

who is this guy now

[olive sable]

new pfp

[hoary lion]

i dont recognize that pfp

[olive sable]

ME

[stark needle]

[olive sable]

[stark needle]

NOOOO NOT ALLOWED

[olive sable]

[hoary lion]

such chaos in that single emoji

[stark needle]

:niuh:

[hoary lion]

stop mocking me with the lack of nitro

:niuh:

trial 2 of war thunder w/ afterburner power cap

[stark needle]

niuh

[hoary lion]

going to set anti-aliasing or whatever setting to more friendly stuff

[sage crag]

niuh

[hoary lion]

[stark needle]

📡

[uneven pulsar]

https://tenor.com/view/going-insane-ultrakill-v2-gif-3340894927007694602

[hoary lion]

@olive sable i think it was indeed psu issue

[stark needle]

hi

[uneven pulsar]

the neuro arg is making me insane

[stark needle]

same

[hoary lion]

capping the usage to 85% solves the issue i think

[olive sable]

[uneven pulsar]

clean pfp niceee

[hoary lion]

but i can't change it any time soon so ill just limit it 😛

[uneven pulsar]

and hello shad

[olive sable]

I like msaa 4x.
8x and 16x are too expensive

[stark needle]

i dont like how it looks scaled down im gonna redraw it later

[olive sable]

Anf fxaa is dogshit

[stark needle]

[uneven pulsar]

it looks nice tho

the neuro arg lore making me go COO COO crazy

[stark needle]

im in general going insane

bahahahahhaha

[uneven pulsar]

to be honest i was speeding all the time decrypting the code

i was able to get a lot of secrets and new info

[olive sable]

[stark needle]

hi sam

van

maele

[uneven pulsar]

hows the trip?

[stark needle]

[olive sable]

Im currently overnighting in charleroi cuz the plane is at 5am.

[uneven pulsar]

dam thats sad

[olive sable]

It fucking warm here

[fast pagoda]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

i just spent 6+ hours

trying to figure out

[uneven pulsar]

me just neing alone becoming insane over the neuro arg lore

[fast pagoda]

why this fucking worker wouldnt allow upload of data

[uneven pulsar]

i got no hommies to spend time whit

[nocturne olive]

Can't be warmer than my server room when NeuroSynth training

[hoary lion]

warm

[fast pagoda]

i have basically redone almost everything to do with wrangler, my worker config, deleted my current durable object cache, swapped to kv cache for statis assets

redid my loading and thought at one point that the thing was just haunted

motherFUCKING

had to swap to an octet stream yesterday for pixel data

well didnt have to

opted to

[tender river]

then just make them on demand?

[fast pagoda]

and as a result used a 256 colour palette as the key for that stream

for the pixel grid

[uneven pulsar]

FUCK this

[fast pagoda]

well i was trying to manipulate the grid

and every time the validation for the colours was failing

but i put like 0 indication of what that was

so i thought literally everything except that was failing

for the last day

errors like this don't help much turns out

https://tenor.com/view/me-when-i-see-my-class-gif-15768348532634343334

so much time wasted

[olive sable]

What cpu do you even have? Cuz 800w should be more than enough for a 3070

[fast pagoda]

another chatter with the randomly power hungry 30 series?

my corsair h850 just shits the bed if i leave my shitty 3080 at full load for too long

[olive sable]

Im doing hours of rendering on my 3090 just fine in my rm750x

[fast pagoda]

yeah when i say power hungry 30 series

i mean faulty ass psu

[olive sable]

Ah

Cant you powercap it?

[fast pagoda]

yeah i do

shouldn't have to though

and evn then it sometimes still will shit itself if i like train an llm or something

it's why i dont really train echo checkpoints here locally

[hoary lion]

i5 10400f

weird ass

[olive sable]

Only 65w

So should be fine

[hoary lion]

likely shitty psu

it is 8 fucking years old

and bronze

i dont know if this is TDR or PSU issue tho

need to make sure

[olive sable]

Check powerdraw

Btw, what is the tdp of your 3070?

[real sierra]

they take time to produce

facilities for producing units are quite spase as well

those aside yeah they can be made on demand given you can store and have stored the requisite resources to afford it

[tender river]

then thats just a planning problem, you could try using statistics here too

[hoary lion]

220 like all 3070 does

[real sierra]

yeah I've been trying to think about which metrics I can reasonably collect

[tender river]

what kind of events do you want to be ready for, etc

[real sierra]

I think I should be able to put numbers on my resource gain by incrementing a total as my miners collect it

[olive sable]

Online im seeing 220-270w
You get 75w from the pcie slot and 150w per cable going to your gpu.
So with 1 cable you het 225W

[real sierra]

and then I can keep a rolling average of that

[olive sable]

If it goes over 225W with 1 cable it will shut down

[real sierra]

trying to be wary of CPU use with any metrics i add

[olive sable]

Try putting 2 cables in. I think 3070's have 2 8pins?

[hoary lion]

ill try later

man i hate hardware

[opaque wharf]

I haven't play the game in a long time lmao. That's why I just realized that its actually already in my library

[olive sable]

150 is the minimum from the spec at least, my 3090 was using more cuz my psu supported it i guess. You're not supposed to tho

[real sierra]

theres a lot of complicated numbers now that i think about it

[opaque wharf]

Guys, what is this curve family again?

[real sierra]

uhhh

[rigid snow]

wrapping back around on itself

[real sierra]

looks like a paint drawing

[opaque wharf]

It should be a separate curve. Too lazy to plot it correctly lmao

[olive sable]

Illegal graph

[sour harness]

a see-saw curve but in very strong wind

[fast pagoda]

looks like me trying to continuously do a task

[opaque wharf]

Let me correctly plot it again lmao

[rigid snow]

you can graph stuff like this so not illegal per se, it’s just there is a third component in graphs like this which is the distance along the line

[fast pagoda]

and the 4th component which is math not giving a fuk

[rigid snow]

or if we treat the function as an oscillator, the current phase is the component, and the oscillator has two outputs. basically imagine tracing a loop on a touchscreen

i don’t have any correct terminology for this whatsoever but i hope i explained it clear enough

[rigid snow]

[opaque wharf]

See, much cleaner lol

So, what's the family again?

The leftmost one looks like a tangent

[real sierra]

looks like a mirrored log

of varying stretch

or maybe square roots actually

[opaque wharf]

Noice. I tried mucking around with various function and square root never come up to my mind at all

Thanks a lot

[real sierra]

its just a guess, im not sure if its actually square root but the shape of the parts of the graph you've shown seem similar

no clue what behaviour would give you a graph like this either

[tulip ermine]

My smooth brain is struggling to handle this

[opaque wharf]

Well, I cannot be sure either. I'm just trying to find a general form of that curve family that I got from lots of data point

Curve fitting yay!

[real sierra]

lmao fun

[opaque wharf]

The most basic form of machine learning

[real sierra]

i had a really stupid idea the other day

if you just had a giant network of PID controllers

[wary rover]

This looks like a very wacko parametric differential

[real sierra]

where the error is the input to the PIDs

[opaque wharf]

PID and giant network just brings me PTSD of tuning it

[real sierra]

shrug

pick something semi reasonable

nobody will have the courage to correct you

nor will they have the time to come up with something better

[opaque wharf]

Also, if error is not an input to PID, what else will it be? I'm scared to know if anyone do something unholy with PID now

[wary rover]

tried to recreate your curve and failed miserably

[opaque wharf]

Machine learning is that, but automated

[wary rover]

Sometimes I wish math didnt exist

[hallow raptor]

hey there, does anyone know what a good sentiment analysis model is for english text? For part of a college project, I need to make a chat filter, and am using a basic word filter which is easy to fix, but am also using the "distilbert-base-uncased-finetuned-sst-2-english" model for sentiment analysis from huggingface, and using the transformers library to get it to play nice, but have run into the problem of them both apparently being slightly homophobic, censoring things that shouldn't be, and not censoring things that definately should be. One such example is that it has a confidence of 99.66% that the phrase "i am gay" is negative and should be filtered, but there is another phrase that it is 99.4% sure is positive, despite the fact it contains some really bad stuff in there, and I'm not going to be sharing because I dont want to get immediately banned. I have tested it with other phrases, this is the only minority group I've found it to not work for so far, and can't really fine-tune the model, due to being a college student with almost no hardware. (i also cant use an API or anything, it needs to be local hosted)

[nocturne olive]

Just finetune for specifically what you need

[stark needle]

chat

what if

there's brain eating amoeba growing inside of my gpu watercooling system

[wary rover]

Or just take an L on accuracy of assessment in some very specific cases

[trim valve]

what if there's a braineating ameoba starving to death in this chat

[real sierra]

happens

the one in my head is certainly starving

[faint sandal]

is this what they call a brainworm

[hallow raptor]

i unfortunately am a poor college student with the best gpu available to me being a 1050 Ti, so fine-tuning is pretty out of the question for me unless I can be really convincing to my college IT team

[nocturne olive]

What are you doing making AI stuff without proper hardware?

[trim valve]

god forbid someone has fun

[opaque wharf]

I don't think NLP for sentient analysis uses that much memory. How much is 1050Ti have again?

[hallow raptor]

something something voice assistant like an alexa, I dont want it to curse the end users entire bloodline

[hallow raptor]

I can do that part, just not the fine-tuning part

[hallow raptor]

its for my college work, worth 20% of my grade

[nocturne olive]

You're gonna need a bit more than a 1050 Ti for that

Assuming you want it to actually be helpful

4GB VRAM isn't gonna really get you anywhere

[hallow raptor]

my hope is a bing API and the user being ok with 30 minute delays

might potentially be upgrading, if I can afford it and my motherboard can fit it, was thinking a b580 but then I would lose out on CUDA

[nocturne olive]

CUDA is quite important for AI, at least training
Inference might be fine

12GB VRAM would at least let you do something

[olive sable]

Goodnight

[opaque wharf]

No

[hallow raptor]

I was looking at a 5060 Ti, as its pretty close to a 3080, but then my motherboard wont be able to fit it, and its pretty expensiv

[real sierra]

goodnight

[opaque wharf]

https://tenor.com/view/lily-in-the-morning-grumpy-cat-gif-27120729

[hallow raptor]

goodnight!

[nocturne olive]

No, it's not close to a 3080, I believe it loses to a 3070

xx60 is a scam

Don't fall for it

[olive sable]

Tf you mean no?

Im eepy

[opaque wharf]

Being a grumpy cat

[nocturne olive]

And what do you mean motherboard won't be able to fit it? You have a x16 slot no?

[hallow raptor]

damn, nvm, at least its something? What would you recommend then, if thats the upper limit to my budget?

[tender river]

you wont believe it

[nocturne olive]

How much in numbers of money?

[hallow raptor]

PCIE 4, and I think it might have been my case instead, it was a while ago since I measured it all

[nocturne olive]

Because if you want a cheap, reasonable CUDA card, 3060 12GB is a beginner's favorite

200€ or less used

[hallow raptor]

ok then, thanks!

[nocturne olive]

The final actually worth it xx60 class card

4060 and 5060 class are scams

[hallow raptor]

pretty sure thats cheaper aswell, I was looking for the 5060 Ti 16GB, but guess I know even less about hardware than I thought

[nocturne olive]

And the 12GB on the 3060 12GB lets you actually inference some decent stuff

[nocturne olive]

If you really want 16GB VRAM, you'd be looking for used 4060Ti 16GB cards probably, but that's not really as much value as 3060 12GB

I personally am getting a 3090 specifically for ML training

[hallow raptor]

oooh nice!

[nocturne olive]

I just so happen to need a lot of memory and 12GB can barely do 3 batch size when training my vocal synthesizer stuff

[hallow raptor]

what are you doing with that? sounds cool

[nocturne olive]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1HNHqSdGW4
Silliness

[hallow raptor]

that is, in fact, rather silly

[nocturne olive]

That's my vocal synthesizer, NeuroSynth

That specific model version took 30 hours to train

[hallow raptor]

wowzas, thats really impressive!

[nocturne olive]

Still BETA by the way

[hallow raptor]

(also, ive asked so many people by now, and nobody has been able to answer but you might. What is the difference between talking and singing? Like on a waveform level, what is the difference?)

[hallow raptor]

HOW

[nocturne olive]

It's using synthetic data rather than proper data, which is why it's still in BETA

[nocturne olive]

Very interesting question
I can't say how it shows in visual waveforms, but I do know something about how the pitch curves differ: speech tends to have a much more variant pitch curve, while singing is usually closer to the notes being sung, though not fully flat
The phoneme timings also tend to differ

[hallow raptor]

hmm

pretty interesting, thanks

I will be taking note

[nocturne olive]

Singing vs speech approximate, speech is often much less obvious in where the base pitch is

Of course I'm bad at drawing, so it's probably not very accurate

[hallow raptor]

no, i get what you mean

makes a lot of sense though, comparing how they sound

honestly, voice synthesis is so cool

[nocturne olive]

It is pretty fun to mess around with, that's for sure

[hallow raptor]

hopefully once I've finished my existing stuff and/or get a hardware upgrade, I do want to try messing around with it a bit and see what I can put together

as for my current project, I guess I'll just ignore that I've found any problems and hope it doesnt say anything too bad infront of anyone

[nocturne olive]

Note that 12GB VRAM is gonna be extremely limiting, I had to use 4x gradient accumulation on NS-B-3 just to get it to a more reasonable effective batch size, and it was really inefficient due to low native batch size

[hallow raptor]

I've thought up a genius solution to this, I like to call it "making it the same way the IBM 7094 instead of fancy stuff because it needs less hardware(and is also cool ig)"

though I will bear that in mind if I do end up doing deep learning stuff though!

[nocturne olive]

Oh, that's called "making your own UTAU"

UTAU uses the older kind of sample-based vocal synthesis

[hallow raptor]

from what I can tell it would be a very heavily lobotomised version of UTAU after accounting for me being unable to code well or how simple Im going with it, but pretty much yes

[nocturne olive]

Silly

[hallow raptor]

tbf, all my projects like this I do want to re-visit after I actually am either doing/have done a degree, so I can know what Im doing and afford actual hardware

[nocturne olive]

Very interesting

[hallow raptor]

indeed

[nocturne olive]

Meanwhile I'm getting a 3090 so I can throw more compute and memory at NeuroSynth

[rigid snow]

vocal synthesis

[nocturne olive]

Very fun once you properly get into it

[hallow raptor]

anyways, thanks for the help! I should probably get going and move onto the next part and hope it goes well (it wont)

[hallow raptor]

sounds very cool! I'll try and follow NeuroSynth, it seems really cool

[nocturne olive]

Keep an eye on #programming and the #1095941852068331560 forum and maybe you'll catch some cool stuff

[hallow raptor]

will do!

[rigid snow]

question, how resource intensive is the real-time inference when you use the synth

and how low can the quality go

[nocturne olive]

NeuroSynth? It can run at real-time speeds on my 4070Ti at one track

No quality loss

[rigid snow]

let's say i have a 1050ti

i don't but let's say

[nocturne olive]

I don't think a 1050Ti can run NeuroSynth at real-time speeds, would struggle even at lower quality levels

[rigid snow]

i'm curious but i don't have a 1050ti to test

i have a 2060 though

[nocturne olive]

Well, I'm not handing out NeuroSynths

[rigid snow]

i'm not asking

[nocturne olive]

Silly

[rigid snow]

copyright infringement

also another question, why do you specifically say neurosynth? can the models be of arbitrary parameter counts?

[nocturne olive]

It's just not done yet, so I'm keeping what we used secret

[nocturne olive]

I say NeuroSynth because it's the Neuro-sama vocal synthesizer

That's just the name of the thing

[real sierra]

i shared this person's innocent question:

figured it must have an easy enough answer

[rigid snow]

i respect that, you wouldn't want to leave a bad impression. but again i wasn't even thinking of asking, i already told you why i don't want to use it

the other day

[nocturne olive]

Did you? I forgor

[rigid snow]

yeah i said something along the lines of "it feels like skinwalking"

[nocturne olive]

That's crazy

[rigid snow]

not "silly", damn

[nocturne olive]

I just say "silly" all the time

Wait, I got confused

I confused myself there

[rigid snow]

no what i mean is neurosynth isn't bespoke software, it's a model for existing vocal synth software

[nocturne olive]

Yeah?

[rigid snow]

so do different models have different requirements - can they be of different sizes?

[nocturne olive]

I think they can, there's different feature levels, and NeuroSynth-BETA is one of the lower ones

[opaque wharf]

Sometimes discrete math is harder than their continuous counterpart lol

[rigid snow]

interesting

[nocturne olive]

NeuroSynth-1.0 will likely have a higher feature level

I wonder how big the model will be considering NS-B is already 100M params or 400MB

[opaque wharf]

Now I'm curious is there a way to compute the length of arbitrary curve within a specified range

Interesting, so it's just an integral with extra steps which now that I think about it, makes sense

[opaque sigil]

Yup

Pretty simple integral thankfully

[trim valve]

this is an ok temperature to idle at right

[opaque sigil]

If your fans are barely spinning then yeah

If not then idk about that one chief (unless it's a laptop in which case who cares )

[real sierra]

many hours of writing code later im pleased to announce ive made zero progress

[sage crag]

poghd chain

[fast pagoda]

at least you're not at negative progress

i went negative this morning

as compared to yesterday anyways

might have something to do with why #1388998207199121448 message the server for this is down

might not

[opaque wharf]

Still playing the game?

[real sierra]

i wrote some basic code to spawn a unit

and then make the unit collect resources

and store them in the unit maker

then i did a detour to make some code that would track useful stats, like resource collection over time and current/projected capacity

[sage crag]

shift right

[real sierra]

now im writing some code to control structure building

[sage crag]

did you finish your embedded project

[real sierra]

on hold

hit a mysterious bug that doesnt make sense and i cant be asked to fix it

[opaque wharf]

Very #programming like

[sage crag]

its not broken its just unique behaviour

[opaque wharf]

Also embedded as in MCU embedded or osdev?

[sage crag]

oo ee oo

[tender river]

making an ISA in a game

[opaque wharf]

What?

[real sierra]

the current issue plaguing that system is

the stack mysteriously corrupts itself

but only under extreme conditions

i dont know if there's some size constraint on the stack that im not considering

but its failing in some bizarre way that i cant figure out

[sage crag]

stack canaries

[real sierra]

i need more advice for this

not the embedded project

this RTS AI

so in this RTS the rooms have controllers that need to be levelled up to progress meaningfully

its an effectively infinite resource sink

how do i manage the rate at which i dump resources in

[tender river]

i assume you want to figure out which resource to use for expansion and which for upgrades?

[real sierra]

for the purposes of what im doing now, there's only one resource

(energy)

im just not sure how to allocate it right now

energy is needed for constructing new units to collect energy, for upgrading the controller, for constructing energy storage, and pretty much everything else in the game

[tender river]

what can you use it for and what is producing it?

[real sierra]

there are a number of locations in the map that produce energy that can be harvested

it is replenished at a fixed rate per energy source

[stark needle]

azaka would be proud 😭 https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/gpus/disabling-intel-graphics-security-mitigations-boosts-compute-performance-20-percent-uplift-from-setting-change-that-even-intel-employs-despite-unknown-security-risk

[tender river]

well it seems pretty clear cut, dump as much energy as you need to max out energy production and put the rest into upgrades

as to which upgrades, well, you decide, but probably your current priority will be bigger cap on energy collection (whatever the bottleneck is)

or new resources that reduce your dependency on energy, no idea how the game works

anyway you have to build up your economy, any rts has challenges that prevent you from easily doing that but if you do have a strong economy you can usually just steamroll anyone

[rigid snow]

just don't use the mmu at that point

[sage crag]

alchemy

[rigid snow]

gaming optimized tiny windows no mmu kernel build when

it'll fix all of your performance issues with your favorite competitive multiplayer game

address translation adds overhead and ruins your fps

[opaque sigil]

[real sierra]

holy

you know you've found an interesting bug when the suggested fix is this

const heap_bomb = () => { new Uint32Array(8*1024*1024); heap_bomb(); };
heap_bomb(); 

[rigid snow]

what

[opaque sigil]

ah yes, the nuclear option (i assume v8/jsc will just reuse the buffer)

[tender river]

https://screeps.com/forum/topic/2185/force-a-global-reset