programming

[olive sable]

ye iggly is a giraffe

[opaque sigil]

Don't be a shrimp

[wary rover]

spend 10 years training and don't look big or muscular. Shorter guys would come to gym for 2 months and become roman statues

[amber fractal]

Genetics my beloved

[olive sable]

🦐 kinda hard to do when ive been shrimping for half my life

[opaque sigil]

The time to start is now

[amber fractal]

factual infomation

[opaque sigil]

Well technically half your life ago but what can you do

[opaque wharf]

Get a proper desk setup. Also try to use standing desk

[sage crag]

how's the weather

[amber fractal]

If I had access to a standing desk, I'd not get any work done

[opaque sigil]

Hot and humid

[olive sable]

the problem isnt my desk, its the schools desks that suck ass

plastic chairs

[wary rover]

I mean, posture is one of the easiest physical things to fix. 10 minutes of stretches and very easy exercises counteract the shrimpage

[opaque wharf]

Well, congrats for passing that hell then lol

[opaque wharf]

Why?

[opaque sigil]

I was going to question why your school uses plastic chairs but then I remembered they presumably pirate windows

[amber fractal]

Pace all the time so I'd be walking away from the desk constantly

[olive sable]

they got cheap contractors for the new building so all the plaster around the doors is starting to fall off at the edges

person slams door -> -0.2kg plaster

[amber fractal]

decay in real time

[opaque wharf]

I find it helps with concentration tho. So maybe it could help but yeah, won't know until you try it

[olive sable]

i would just not be able to work

[wary rover]

We need a harness hanging from the ceiling in front of the 1,5m tall desk. You strap the harness on, press a button and hang in front of your PC as you work. Perfect condition for productivity

[opaque sigil]

I got fed up with having to buy a new chair every 2 years and splurged and it's been great

[amber fractal]

Yeah I have that as well, I just don't have the most space

[opaque wharf]

My funny story from uni is when a friend (obese) tried to lean his back onto the wall and the wall just broke to the next class

[olive sable]

my current chair is some ikea thing, it was like 140...
it sits well at least

[opaque wharf]

The giant plastered hole still looks different to this day

[opaque sigil]

As long as it's not a gaming chair I approve

[wary rover]

We broke a brick wall in the locker room when we were in 8th grade

[opaque wharf]

And he is such a good sport about it too so we all laugh it off together while filing a report to the uni lol

[olive sable]

its not lmao

[opaque wharf]

What was it again that famous office chair brand?

[opaque sigil]

Herman miller? (I didn't get one of those)

[opaque wharf]

Yeah that one. That is touted as the best it seems

[sage crag]

561ms for hashmap now

[opaque sigil]

They do make some really good chairs but the aeron for example absolutely sucks if you don't sit properly 24/7
Nice for an office I guess but not at home

[opaque sigil]

[sage crag]

if anyone was wondering, 12kb binary

[opaque wharf]

Why would you sit 24/7?

[sage crag]

optimised

why would you do

mov %chair %bed
sleep %bed
mov %bed %chair

when you could just

sleep %chair

its more efficient and uses less registers

[opaque sigil]

I mean not literally 24/7, more that it's actively painful if you don't sit properly
Sometimes I want to lay back and cross my legs okay

[opaque sigil]

Optimisation is hard okay

[wary rover]

rotate chair 180 degrees, move the backrest of the chair back as much as possible, place your legs on the couch

[opaque wharf]

Mushroom idea with harness got a point

[wary rover]

Imagine this as a code, I have no idea how to make it look like a code, I am uneducated

[wary rover]

You can also strap yourself upside down for the most intense and difficult tasks to ensure maximum blood flow to the brain

[sage crag]

i think i will just
xor %chair %chair instead

[wary rover]

Ah, yes, xor %chair %chair

makes sense

[opaque sigil]

You'll be missed chair

[sage crag]

chair is the register

its the contents of the chair that will be missed

[opaque sigil]

Ok nerd

[wary rover]

Chair was reduced to a shape

[sage crag]

boom 💥

[opaque sigil]

is xor still the fastest way to clear a register on x86-64

[sage crag]

as far as im aware

im pretty sure most cpus have a path for xor reg, reg these days

[opaque wharf]

This is pretty funny ngl

[sage crag]

also its like 2 bytes

[sage crag]

i mean it makes sense
mov %eax, [0x0] is like 5 bytes

i cant type

even more if its an extended width register

i super cant type

turtel

[opaque wharf]

Yeah, I know. Also good to separate intent like actually needing 0 value and just clearing the value

But also that's what comment are for

To be clear, I am talking about writing raw asm here

[sage crag]

im pretty sure anyone competent enough to be reading and understanding the assembly of a program will know a xor a == 0

i guess its ok

...
xor eax eax ;zeroes eax
...

[opaque wharf]

You'd be pretty surprised. People that deals code in higher level sometimes forgot their basic pretty fast

[opaque wharf]

Exactly

[sage crag]

oh you love to see it

compiler opts people, compiler opts

oh its so beautiful

[opaque sigil]

[sage crag]

the gist of the latest optimisation seems to be for mem2reg, where it became more aware of stack values and allowed some of them to be placed in registers

[opaque sigil]

[naive burrow]

Neuro and evil with this would be fire 🔥
For today they have a very simplistic notion of passage of time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYHkj5UlJ_E

[sage crag]

@umbral thorn ^this is you

[opaque wharf]

Wasn't sakana AI also one of those that propose optimization by basically genetic algorithm?

[opaque sigil]

Those tend to be unusably slow last time I checked

[opaque wharf]

I mean running huge model continuously are bound to be slow. Especially when running multiple of them in search for the better outcome

[wary rover]

What are your thoughts on AbsoluteZero btw

Its such an esoteric concept for me

[opaque wharf]

0 Kelvin?

Why would it be esoteric?

[wary rover]

https://arxiv.org/abs/2505.03335

[opaque wharf]

Oh, I'm not deep enough in the field to make a comment about that then

[wary rover]

I just generally have no idea what is going on, so every AI model and method is a magic box that does stuff for me with 0 understanding of how it actually works

[opaque sigil]

that certainly looks like one of the papers of all time

[minor crag]

I HATE looking for ethical training data

Its all too boring and the good stuff is unethical

[wary rover]

Ethics is a blanket for the weak to hide under to avoid seeing the world as it is. Pirate software, scrape data from any available source, burn buttons in the elevators, bite people who you don't like

[warped narwhal]

ew, AT&T syntax

Intel syntax > AT&T syntax

[opaque wharf]

What data? LLM?

[opaque sigil]

i love it when claude is ddos'ing my website

[opaque wharf]

Under the court ruling yesterday, copyrighted works are fair use to use for training data

[wary rover]

DDOS it back

[sage crag]

toaster

[opaque wharf]

I like this energy

"Oh you want my data huh? WHAT ABOUT YOURS?! GIMME YOURS!"

[olive sable]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_wDa2AS_8w
opinions on this video?

[sage crag]

hang on let me watch for 16 minutes and then try and find a reason to be mad

[opaque wharf]

It's 3 years ago...

That alone is enough of a reason

[olive sable]

i feel liek the latest version of c++, c++20, from 2020, is longer ago than the vidoe

so should be fine

[stone cedar]

what about c++23?

[opaque wharf]

C++23 is the latest btw

[olive sable]

i forgot aboutthat one my bad

[opaque wharf]

C++26 is the preview

[olive sable]

still, im using c++ 17

[stone cedar]

Also I'm one minute in and already disagree

[olive sable]

shoudl be fine

[olive sable]

hit me

[opaque wharf]

Pretty solid list

[opaque sigil]

i approve

[opaque wharf]

Konii is falling into the blackhole

[olive sable]

every week or so i need my confidently incorrect moment, itsnecesary to humble me for the clueless man i a am

[olive sable]

as usual

[stone cedar]

Index-based for loop is fine imo, I lost count of the amount of times I had to change a range-for loop back to indexed because the logic got more complicated.
Might be confirmation bias.

[olive sable]

i guess. im not too opposed to either

[stone cedar]

I also wouldn't discourage beginners to use range-for but I don't think it's a "noob-marker' as the video suggests

[opaque wharf]

Bias for sure. It is easier to reason if the operation performed is independent of each other

[olive sable]

at the end of the day the compiler proabbly optemizes it welll enough to not matter anyways

[minor crag]

Yea but I need stuff that'll give it the correct personality traits and knowledge (sorry I didn't awnser (didn't get notification))

[sand pecan]

Feels like a lot of the reason why we don't do things is "bad practice" as if it makes any goddamn difference

[opaque wharf]

I don't ping on purpose because I think that's the norm? But I don't use on discord long enough to know

[sand pecan]

Like, I was writing a python script the other day, and I happened to need to use global variables

[amber fractal]

#26 be like, I mean that is C not C++ but who are they to judge what people are using it for; some might just be doing C with a half decent lib option

[sand pecan]

Maybe that's "bad practice," but fuck it, I did it anyway

[minor crag]

I forget to check so I like people pinging me

[opaque wharf]

It does. C/C++ carries a lot of baggage for backward compatibility sake. What is best practice at the time may have been superseded now

[amber fractal]

Globals and magics I don't have an issue with.

again though, python

[sand pecan]

Call me flippant, but life's too short to give a damn about good practice

[amber fractal]

Based

[opaque wharf]

Nah, I just want to ask anyway but can't directly help. Just wanted to point out that copyrighted materials are fair use so long as you actually have the license for said copyright work (license as in, you purchase or obtain a legal copy of it)

[minor crag]

Huh? So if I own a legal copy I can use it for training?

[sage crag]

so about that video

RAII

[opaque wharf]

Apparently yes. A US court ruled that Claude use of copyrighted material for training is fair use

[sage crag]

you should use it, but also there are very much times when manual resource management is useful or necessary

[amber fractal]

Was it with precedent tho?

that's the real question

[olive sable]

i dont give a fuck about bad practise or not, but if i have the option i choose the one thats agreed upon being the best method

which is where best pracises come in

[opaque wharf]

If there are no precedent then that is the precedent

AI is just now becoming a new issue for law

[stone cedar]

Most of the things are good practice, some chapter titles are also just lies
"#18. modifying a container while looping over it" => video: "Just know how to do it right"

[amber fractal]

I know that, but it is a phrase that is used by law for awhile to decide if they think other cases should use this or not.

[wary rover]

Law havent figured out internet yet, let alone AI

[minor crag]

I dont know if its ethical to use TV shows as training data but the shows I want to use are on streaming services I have

[amber fractal]

I don't see OOP is good under the flaws listed here

[sage crag]

i find it almost always a bad idea to be honest. its very fragile and shouldnt be the first choice over just creating a new container.

[opaque wharf]

Why would OOP be good or not? It's an architectural decision. Use it when it makes sense. Manual memory management, in general, is bad because many apps may not need it

[wary rover]

... But do you own these shows, or do you have a right to watch them that can be taken away from you on a whim?

[opaque wharf]

More so on a language without GC

[stone cedar]

I guess if the container is small enough that is cleaner. Also gives you the ability to inspect both in debugging.

[minor crag]

I don't own any DVDs so I technically down own any of them

[tiny mango]

download mp4s from other sources in minecraft

[amber fractal]

None of them are good or bad, it's just OOP is used as a catchall a lot of the time, and that is wrong

[minor crag]

That seems unethical

[sage crag]

its something where if you are duplicating or modifying containers, you are almost certainly doing something a bad way to begin with and should reconsider.

[tiny mango]

do you want to be ethical or do you want to make it happen?

[wary rover]

its not a crime if you are never caught

[opaque wharf]

Even if you do have DVD, you still only have license to the copyrighted material. Same with books on the technical level

[minor crag]

I have a licence to watch the shows and I think that licence extends to my ai (I'm gonna have to read law stuff)

[sand pecan]

You know what really irks me about programming in general? Mostly regarding the teaching of it?

[opaque wharf]

You have license to consume said material, but not to redistribute it usually

[sand pecan]

No one teaches C

[sage crag]

and yet if i stole your computer without you knowing it was me, someone would be complaining about a stolen computer

[sage crag]

are you very sure about that

[tiny mango]

you're a person, a corp is a corp

[sand pecan]

Okay, bad generalization. I was never taught C

[tiny mango]

someone should let my profs know

[sage crag]

you have no proof of either

[wary rover]

I have 3 booby traps in my room

[amber fractal]

I'm on ethical, personally. I could care less if it actually ends up stagnating but that's just me.

[tiny mango]

yeah, you're right

[sage crag]

should have put a fourth

[sand pecan]

Which is a problem now cause I was relying on c++ to handle all the dirty work

They didn't teach me what the hell a void pointer was

[tiny mango]

that's your call, nothing wrong w it. Just a very literal question of whether or not you want to do the thing or to not do the thing because what you want crosses lines in some way/shape/form

[wary rover]

I think we should collectively give up on this whole "law" and "morality" thing and just turn the world into Rust(the game) server

[opaque wharf]

If your major is CS, then C should be taught IMHO. Because CS is more low-level so to speak than let's say IT

[tiny mango]

my c class was taught strictly on a headless vm, in vim

[sand pecan]

Yeah, they didn't. My intro to programming classes were in Python and Java

[tiny mango]

Which doesn't help you at all but I really like hearing condolences for that one

[sage crag]

the hardest part about your class was using vim

[sand pecan]

College is a meme here

[tiny mango]

Oh absolutely

[tiny mango]

says leaf

[amber fractal]

I'm just refusing to partake in it, I'll pretrain from only my consensual data and it will suck.

[tiny mango]

valid valid

[olive sable]

if i have the money to do so i would actually like o make a real open source dataset for videogame npc llm's

but i dont, yet

[sand pecan]

My sister in Christ, I have a professor who, as an assignment, asks me to use ChatGPT to generate quizzes for my classmates to answer

[minor crag]

OK so the licence the platforms give me do not let my ai watch the content

[tiny mango]

OH LMAO I fully thought you meant the discord

[sand pecan]

No, college in my country. Fuckers taught me nothing

I'm basically self taught

[opaque wharf]

Defining "AI watching the content" must've been tedious

GAN consist of 2 network. One of which doesn't really "watch" the data

[minor crag]

So I've gotta obtain a licence for all 5 of the shows that will allow my ai to watch them

[wary rover]

What if you run a screen capture on a PC that you own and use AI that you created to feed off of screen capture, while COINSIDENTALLY watching the show that you payed for

[tiny mango]

What about the shows is valuable? Is it the inflection/speech? Dialogue? The look of the shows themselves?

[minor crag]

I don't like the law or corporations

[minor crag]

That seems illegal

[minor crag]

Hmmm

[wary rover]

That seems dubiously illegal, and in the realm of law that what matters the most

[sand pecan]

She says after admitting to disliking the law

[minor crag]

I still gotta follow it

[wary rover]

I mean, if you have broken the law in an unprovable way you basically didnt break anything

[minor crag]

I wonder if the captions and audio descriptions of the shows are public domain

[sand pecan]

He speaks a harsh truth, but a truth nonetheless

[tiny mango]

Unless you're worried about a publication or telling people exactly how you trained your model, what makes you think a person of power at any of these 5 shows will see your model, get reminded of something, and pursue legal action?

[stone cedar]

Isn't that basically what microsoft recall does but lower sample rate?

[tiny mango]

If the dialogue is what you need then find the scrips and train away

[sand pecan]

Besides, Zucc has no problems pirating to train his Llama

Who cares anymore

[tiny mango]

If you want to be hard on yourself over it then write your own rendition of the dialogue and scene descriptions -- your IP -- and then train it off of that

[olive sable]

i care

[opaque wharf]

Different subtitle will have different license

[wary rover]

The point is: Laws are made to benefit those who can influence them by stripping away freedom and resources off of those who can't. If you can bypass or abuse the law to gain benefit and you are confident that you can make it seemlessly - do it at every given opportunity

[opaque wharf]

Now this is certainly an interesting point lol

[minor crag]

Turns out any subtitles will be derivative work and I can't use them

[opaque wharf]

I see

[tiny mango]

bing bong bing bong

[olive sable]

#legaleagle general

[opaque wharf]

Then there's my country where anything goes

[minor crag]

What country? How much is rent? What's the food like? Do they have cheese? Do you hate the French?

[tiny mango]

home address? credit card number? the 3 best friend numbers on the back?

[minor crag]

Not the info I want (just considering moving country)

[tiny mango]

the info I want, though

[wary rover]

maiden name of your mother? Date of birth? Finger prints?

[tiny mango]

name of the street you grew up on? name of your first pet? how about your primary school?

[minor crag]

You are British

[tiny mango]

I am American

[minor crag]

Huh

[wary rover]

Select 2 pictures with an object that is not furniture?

[minor crag]

I thought primary schools were a British only thing

[tiny mango]

Yeah, and some really pretentious counties in the lovely state of Massachusetts

[minor crag]

Ah you people are jealous

[olive sable]

??? they're not

a lot of countrie shave them

[wary rover]

Its a set of three questions that are commonly used as a secret question for password reset I believe

[tiny mango]

hairy

[minor crag]

WHAT????

[opaque wharf]

Indonesia

[opaque wharf]

Shave them. Good one sam

[olive sable]

wdymn what? primary school literaly comes from "école primaire"

first school

its french

and the romans did it way before us

[tiny mango]

That was always my understanding ^ I think otherwise it's called elementary school

[wary rover]

Gymnasiums were there in ancient Greece too

[opaque wharf]

Elementary school here yes. "Sekolah Dasar"

[olive sable]

is elemnentary school not after primary school?

[opaque wharf]

Dasar is elementary

[sand pecan]

I think they're the same

[olive sable]

i might be getting the terms confuse, english is terribel in thsi aspect

[tiny mango]

my progression: preschool, primary 1-6, combined middle and hs 7-12

[sand pecan]

Primary school is elementary school

[tiny mango]

what I call primary some call elementary

[sand pecan]

Some places combine middle and high school into secondary, others separate them

[wary rover]

What is the purpose of kindergarten then if you have primary and elementary schools

[sand pecan]

You don't

[olive sable]

you're acting like this helps when my school system is diffrent

[tiny mango]

LOL sorry sorry

[sand pecan]

They're different names for the same thing

Primary school is elementary school

[opaque wharf]

Also to answer other question, rent is around ~1500 USD / year. I live in the city and that is considered expensive. Food is around 1USD for a filling meal

[tiny mango]

preschool (sometimes) and kindergarten are included in primary

[olive sable]

no need to apologize lmao

[tiny mango]

i just be built like that

[opaque wharf]

But sadly Indonesia only have processed cheese

[sand pecan]

It's the same for elementary

[wary rover]

We just have school. For 11 years since you are 6(7 sometimes) you go to school. Thats it

[tiny mango]

ye

[tiny mango]

math is MATH

[sand pecan]

Because, again, primary school is elementary school + kindergarten

[opaque wharf]

Again, 1 USD for food is expensive. It got you a lot too (rice, vegetable soup, tofu/tempe, chicken)

[sand pecan]

They are not different

[wary rover]

Why a lot of things when can one thing

[sand pecan]

They are only different names

[sand pecan]

Ask the Christian God when they tried to build that big tower

[opaque wharf]

#programming btw

[sand pecan]

Soz

[tiny mango]

semicolon semicolon

[sand pecan]

I get rowdy

[opaque wharf]

It's normal day here

[tiny mango]

meep merp for loop

[sand pecan]

do while

[tiny mango]

do whilen't

[wary rover]

We are picking apart a system of linguistical terms. With enough mental gymnastic you can call it programming-adjacent

[opaque sigil]

formal languages

[minor crag]

I don't like it anymore

[olive sable]

[opaque wharf]

Ye, the tangent here can be pretty far but its fun. I've also used that argument before when discussing language lol. Programming has language therefore linguistic discussion

[minor crag]

I thought we (the UK) were just doing it weirdly

[stone cedar]

It's the era of vibe coding, shouldn't we consider English prompts a programming language?

[tiny mango]

and you couldn't SNIFF ME OUT AS AN AMERICAN?

[opaque wharf]

i18n would like to know your location

No really, i18n needs it

Or l10n

[wary rover]

we had a vote on even/odd number of stairs in a staircase and nobody blinked an eye

[minor crag]

YOU SMELL BRITISH

[tiny mango]

christ.

yee-haw, i guess

[wary rover]

Beans scented perfume

[tiny mango]

holding my head in my hands rn

[opaque wharf]

I find it funny that another streamer do the yee-haw impression as an American accent from California

[tiny mango]

LOL valley girl yee-haw?

[wary rover]

Put it back on your neck, you have like 6 minutes before your brain starts dying from lack of oxygen

[opaque wharf]

I don't know. I just know that it's not something normal there. If you want you can look up Clio Aite doing the American accent

[tiny mango]

DFSJFSDJKHKFSDHJKFSDJKF

[sand pecan]

You know what, I'm about to draw from my American heritage and do something truly stupid

I'm going to vibe code

[wary rover]

Guys, I think she dropped her head on the keyboard

This can end tragically

[sick owl]

You know something that's been bothering me of late with all the MCP glazing

Aren't MCP servers like

A ridiculously easy attack vector for hackers

[tiny mango]

💀 🫘

[wary rover]

Programming related discussion in #programming

[tiny mango]

You'd have to compromise the server and/or rely on one that has internet access, no?

[opaque wharf]

I'm not familiar enough with the spec to talk about it. But if it uses TLS then it's pretty much safe from MitM

[tiny mango]

What's the concept you have in mind for an attack? Just getting in and feeding it bad things?

[sick owl]

Or just set up a malicious server

Most of the popular ones are being hosted by randos not companies

[opaque wharf]

Janus attack too No, not Janus. I was thinking about something else entirely

If you configure the TLS properly

[sick owl]

I was thinking more about the server itself being the tool used for the attack

[tiny mango]

Don't they have their own config even if hosted by someone else?

[sick owl]

A direct line to either a local LLM, an agent with sufficient autonomy or a model with access to user chat memories seems like a massive risk

[sick owl]

True, but ultimately the response returned by the server is pretty easy to poison for a server owner

[tiny mango]

I'm not sure you get to see everything on it by giving a server to host, I think they have pretty strict control over what comes in and out -- what you want may not be wholly contained on one server, and may not be possible to reach

[tiny mango]

okay, they hash it -- now what?

there's no shot there isn't a handshake somewhere

[sick owl]

You're still getting a response from a tool that is then returned to the model

Nothing to stop them from tampering with the tool itself or adding a middleman on the server itself before the response is returned no?

[olive sable]

i hate it when i tell chatgpt something and its just like "nah you're wrong" and goes on to lie right to my face

[tiny mango]

So you're assumign the server acts as a singular source of truth after it spits something out

there is loads of verification and validation to make sure that the output has not been tampered with

these things are thought of when pulling servers from randos like you mentioned, I don't think it'd be as easy as just sending it garbage

[sick owl]

Short of a guard model how do you verify a response isn't poisoned

Or a confirmation on the users side

Though there's still concerns around RCE there and a guard model wouldn't be impenetrable

Also kinda defeats the point of MCPs plug and play nature

[tiny mango]

Outputs can (and are) passed through sanitizers before being fed to models

And often there's more communication with a lot of proxy steps in between -- it would take a lot to really poison anything just as a free agent for some reason renting out server space

[sick owl]

That works in specific cases like maths tools and the like but I don't see how you can sanitise, say, search results

[tiny mango]

That's a good point

There's contextual risk that's also sort of accounted for

models can also just like. search for "bad" stuff

how does that getting filtered out differ from a poisoned result? (again, huge emphasis on how unfeasable it would be to even get something funky back to them)

With that I think we reach the end of what I know, but def worth researching more if you feel like you have more questions/doubts

[wary rover]

When first GPTs came out i tried to hold a philosophical debate with it for fun and it was hilarious.
Lets debate subject X. I propose this juncture.
Argument 1: Bla bla bla. Do you agree?
Chat GPT - yes.
Argument 2: Bla bla bla. Do you agree?
Chat GPT - yes.
So is it evident that by this logic juncture is true?
Chat GPT - yes.
Next question: do you agree that this juncture is true?
Chat GPT - No

[olive sable]

[sage crag]

well, it makes sense

not exactly much training data on using ogl2.0 with emscripten

[olive sable]

i think im just gonna have to redo the entire gltf loading myself. stealing code wont cut it this time

[sage crag]

ripbozo

im rewriting some stuff and decided to make the target interface nicer

[olive sable]

Im having the issue that it works locally, and it also works in web but in web it crashes the 3rd time

So idk

[wary rover]

By the way, random philosophical question. Triangle is 3 dots that are not located on one line, connected with lines. If we make a triangle out of sticks - its triangle. If we make a picture of a triangle in Paint on a PC - its a triangle. If we turn off the monitor, will the code that represents triangle be a triangle?

[sage crag]

im sure you know by now how volatile web browsers are

[sage crag]

is the code that represents the triangle 3 dots that are not located on one line, connected with lines

the code is a program, not the effects of the program

yeh

there is a triangle in the code though

a mathematical representation of one

[desert wave]

If we make a picture of a triangle in Paint on a PC - its a triangle
Ce n'est pas un triangle

[sage crag]

the only thing that is actually a triangle is 3 points that are not co-linear, that are connected by lines

everything else is just a representation

[wary rover]

Wouldn't the triangle on the screen also not be a triangle due to it being a representation of a triangle on a matrix that consists of pixels?

[sage crag]

it would be reasonable to call it a triangle

but not technically correct

[wary rover]

So anything physical is a representation of a triangle and not really a triangle, and pure math that represents triangle in the computer also not a triangle

So where is triangle

[sage crag]

the program is not a pure math representation of a triangle

[wary rover]

Fair point

[sage crag]

it does however contain a pure math representation of a triangle provided its rendering via vertexes

mhm

[wary rover]

So there was never a triangle, only it's representations

[sage crag]

[olive sable]

The idea isto simulate how a triangle with these locations would look irl

But at the end of the day its just pixels and math

[wary rover]

Is there anything irl that is a triangle and not a representation of one?

[olive sable]

Btw, there is not a single check to make sure its not colinear, it will just not be visible

[sage crag]

no

the closest you can get is 3 atoms that arent colinear

[wary rover]

So triangles do not exist, technically

[olive sable]

I wonder if backface culling uses dot product <= 0 or just < 0.
If it does <= than backface culling does eliminate colinear tris

[olive sable]

They do

Its just up to interpretation ig

[sage crag]

hblang hello world in 356 bytes

that's pretty small

[olive sable]

Cuz like, how far are we willing to go? A triangle cant have curved edges, but irl nothing is perfectly straight since atoms just dont work that way.
In a sense physically based triangles are not up to spec

[wary rover]

• Hey, computer, say "hello, world"
• hello, world

[sage crag]

pretty much

try programming hello, world in rust and tell me what the file size is

[wary rover]

I don't know how to see file size

[sage crag]

do you use wsl/linux?

[wary rover]

Windows 11

[olive sable]

size_of() has entered the chat

Thats cpp tho

[tiny mango]

is assembly worth learning .

[olive sable]

Not really

Unless you want to

[wary rover]

Hard things are fun, give it a try!

[sage crag]

windows cant actually represent files this small

oops

[opaque wharf]

Whatm?

[tiny mango]

this is good mindset

[sage crag]

if you ever want to build a compiler, or do anything embedded

yes

[wary rover]

I'm learning rust and it's fun af

[olive sable]

Thats the cpp func for getting the size in bytes of something

[tiny mango]

Professionally, I'm an embedded swen but have never gone that low

I've had an inkling of "I should learn this" but no real push to?

[opaque wharf]

sizeof without underscore no?

[olive sable]

Idk

[tiny mango]

Thought I'd maybe just give it a try this summer to at least understand what assembly is

[olive sable]

Both exist im pretty sure

[opaque wharf]

Embedded also depends on what you do

[sage crag]

im of the opinion that understanding assembly is incredibly useful as a tool

[opaque wharf]

Sometimes you may not need to touch asm. But it is indeed useful to know

[tiny mango]

v much agree, huge field even under the same name

[sage crag]

additionally, learning it tends to make people more proficient

[opaque wharf]

Dang

[tiny mango]

in what sense?

just like. at everything?

[olive sable]

Wait, size_of() might be rust

[sage crag]

well, i cant promise you will learn how to run a mile

[tiny mango]

LMFAO gotchya gotchya

[opaque wharf]

If you are an embedded engineer and wanted to learn asm, I suggest to check out Z80

[tiny mango]

thank you hashtag programming

[tiny mango]

pet pet

[tiny mango]

as in the component?

[wary rover]

At everything that they do: Sports, public speech, dog training. Everything benefits from knowing asssembly

[tiny mango]

excited to qualify for olympic curling with just assembly knowledge under my belt

[sage crag]

this is pretty much the only naked assembly in ableos

[opaque wharf]

Yes, the CPU because the asm opcode is small enough to reason about which is a good starting point before diving into more sophisticated CPU

[sage crag]

thanks osdevs for libraries

[wary rover]

They stand no chance against you once you master assembly

Eddie Hall is in SHAMBLES

[olive sable]

When simd in hblang?

[sage crag]

ahem, no.

[olive sable]

[opaque wharf]

The whole Z80 spec is just around 300 pages IIRC

[sage crag]

though, from a technical standpoint, hardware float uses SSE registers

so its basically simd

[olive sable]

Sure...

Whatever that mzans

Means

[sage crag]

in x86, standard ops with integers will use eax or rax for registers depending on size

but floating point ops use SSE registers, xmmx

[opaque wharf]

TIL

[sage crag]

yup

[olive sable]

Words

[tiny mango]

disappeared to sniff at it

[olive sable]

You what?

[opaque wharf]

Huh?

[warped narwhal]

Does this enable long mode?

[tiny mango]

that was so not confusing at all I meant I was looking at the component

[sage crag]

this enables sse

[opaque wharf]

Oh, the Z80?

[tiny mango]

yeah

[olive sable]

Ohhh

[sage crag]

though actually, there are x87 registers stx for fops too

[warped narwhal]

Ah, close enough, I knew it was enabling something

[tiny mango]

I have a few STM products -- too complex methinks?

[warped narwhal]

Is avx enabled the same way?

[opaque wharf]

Yeah, if you just getting started and trying to get a bearing, it is too complex IMHO

https://clrhome.org/table/

[sage crag]

similar

though this is a bit more than just enabling avx, it also enables avx2

and some other bits and bobs

bad asm, i wrote it when i still capitalised comments

[opaque wharf]

Just 158 instruction

[tiny mango]

Thanks so much!!

[opaque wharf]

You're welcome. At least that is what being used to taught at my uni. So we did make the minimum system too and use emulator to check/develop the code

[olive sable]

[opaque wharf]

I still like to read black on white for printed material

[olive sable]

i agree, but its 2am

for me at least

[tiny mango]

I feel like anything touching Assembly is built to be sadistic anyway

I did c by vim, I'll do assembly by book

gn!

[opaque wharf]

Not really. After a while you start notice a certain pattern to loop, function implementation and passing the parameters etc

[olive sable]

aight, its time to read som docs and rewrite the file

[tiny mango]

I sure hope I do :(

[opaque wharf]

Yeah, don't worry too much about it. Sometimes its only used for initialization only which only happens if the SDK doesn't already provide it (which is REALLY rare lest you try to make an entirely new ecosystem like hblang does)

[gritty dust]

BRO geodesics are so annoying to code im going to die lol

[opaque wharf]

Physicist also hates them, don't worry. But also, using a different coordinate system may help

Like that penrose map

I don't know how it would work when rendering it to 3d tho

[sage crag]

update: 346

[opaque wharf]

https://tenor.com/view/stop-it-get-some-help-gif-15058124

[sage crag]

bwa

[opaque wharf]

The ultimate compression/space efficiency. 1 bit

[sage crag]

darn i added back exporting the memcpy symbol and binary size went up to 447

how sad

[gritty dust]

gaming rn

wtf

one sec

Why no embed one sec again

[opaque wharf]

https://tenor.com/view/neurosama-evil-neuro-embed-failure-gif-15456327638408323033

[gritty dust]

THERE

finally

gaming programming

lowkey kinda ass but accretion disk is next

[opaque wharf]

Did you ended up doing kerr?

[gritty dust]

yes

nt

[opaque wharf]

Noice

[gritty dust]

kinda

its sometimes works sometimes doesnt lol

this image is non spinning beacuse it takes like 10 years to render a spinning one

[opaque wharf]

The simulation blows up?

[gritty dust]

yeahhhh I can get it to do like a 10% light speed one max but even then ehhhh

[opaque wharf]

[olive sable]

fuck it, im improving the file by using a class instead of having 6 stuoid functions that i need to constantly feed the same data

this will even eliminate the need for those smart pointers

what could go wrong?

[gritty dust]

ITS DONE RENDERING, so here is 60 images at different positions I stitched together to make a somewhat coherent image of it moving

(I used imgflip to make it lol

[olive sable]

[gritty dust]

no acretion disk tho sadge

rip

[olive sable]

wdym you used imgflip to make it? you said you rendered it?

[gritty dust]

rendered 60 images and image flip lets you put images to make a gif

thats how so I put the 60 images in order to make a gif of it moving lol

[olive sable]

i just use a plugin for blender to do that lmao

[gritty dust]

its python man not blender lol

[olive sable]

even so you dont need to have rendered it in blender to use the video sequencer

[gritty dust]

Im using matplotlib LOL

[olive sable]

[gritty dust]

yeahhhhh

im cooked

and it also uses cpu to do ray tracing instead of gpu

also way too long

I should really use like torch or sm lol

welp ima go now cya

[gritty dust]

https://tenor.com/view/absolute-dogshit-absolute-cinema-not-peak-minecraft-movie-gif-4039136650396801130

[opaque wharf]

A round universe lol

[gritty dust]

Okay in my defence I litterly just set the background of the matplot lib to a random google image I found

lol

there wasnt much thought behind that

I basically changed its position by 6 units each time, and after it went to 180 I went to -180 (other side of screen) and continued

[opaque wharf]

I mean round as in the universe loops back around. Ideally you don't do that

[gritty dust]

yeahhhh

ignore that lol

[opaque wharf]

[gritty dust]

[rigid snow]

good “i don’t even know the time of day this can be classified as” everyone

[gritty dust]

[opaque wharf]

Morning 00-11, Afternoon 11-15, 15-23 evening

[rigid snow]

morning from 12 am is crazy

[opaque wharf]

I mean, the day has changed so it's a new morning

[gritty dust]

I woke up at 2pm today lol

[opaque wharf]

Yeah, early morning!

[gritty dust]

frrr

[rigid snow]

linguistically speaking i hear 2 or 3 in the morning in english, not in russian tho, “in the morning” usually starts at 4 which makes way more sense honestly

it’s when the sun is up

most of the seasons

[opaque wharf]

Here we only have 2 seasons. Flood or drought

But also both can happen at the same time

[rigid snow]

i mean in terms of the angle the sun is at

sun is up longer during summer

[opaque wharf]

Yeah, as someone from the equator, people that are closer to the poles are crazy because you have to adjust 4 times every year

But getting too close to the pole also become more extreme

[rigid snow]

it’s as gradual as it gets you don’t really have to adjust?

[rigid snow]

it’s fine unless you live in the polar circles

[opaque wharf]

Yeah fair point for someone living there I guess. I don't stay for long so that may be the reason why

[rigid snow]

then you have the sun up and down for 24hrs at a time

or more

[opaque wharf]

What do you mean or more?

Oh I misread lol

I thought 24hrs a day or more

[rigid snow]

you didn’t

[fringe verge]

i wonder if Vedal would like this if he ever wanted the Neuros on a body. looks damn cool
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM0tyMLQW2k

[rigid snow]

there are points in the year when the sun just does not come up/down

[opaque wharf]

See https://discord.com/channels/574720535888396288/1337733692709146674

[rigid snow]

it just does a 360 from your pov

[fringe verge]

and it isn't the only one i'd seen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPHt9l2Q2LM&pp=ygUab3BlbiBzb3VyY2UgaHVtYW5vaWQgcm9ib3Q%3D

[opaque wharf]

No, I understand that. I just mean that more than 24 hrs a day is crazy

[fringe verge]

oh NICE!

[rigid snow]

there aren’t more than 24 hrs in a day how can you have more than 24 hrs a day

[opaque wharf]

Do read the thread first before tho. It is very info dense

[rigid snow]

i meant 24 or more hrs at a time

consecutively

[opaque wharf]

Which is why I asked before but then I realized I misread

[rigid snow]

but that’s literally impossible… nvm

[fringe verge]

i want to ask if recommending those two would help the person.

[opaque wharf]

That, I don't know honestly. But what I do know is that even if we plan to build a humanoid, we'd like to make it as close to human as possible

[fringe verge]

🤔
that explaisn why he did robot eye sketches

i mean, human eye studies

i think someone designed very good eyes on YT

[opaque wharf]

Like controlling eyebrows for facial expression, fine motor movement for grip, and many more that will make neuro truly humanlike

[rigid snow]

you either don’t do eyes or risk making a creepy/uncanny robot

[fringe verge]

i feel screen is the way to go

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1niNUN0oMko

[rigid snow]

i mean if you’re going to render eyes there then that still applies

[rigid snow]

wtf is that

point proven

[fringe verge]

sure, to me, it feels safer and easier to just put a screen and put cameras around it.

[opaque wharf]

Yeah, that would be the task of whoever designed the artistic side of it

[fringe verge]

what point? it doesnt have animatroic eyes. but hey i guess it depends on who views it. i think that one is fine.

[opaque wharf]

Disney for example, got some really convincing robot

[fringe verge]

a proof of concept that i never see in most humanoid robots with blank faceplates. make it a screen.

a screen would legit be cheaper (potentially) than making a corpse like face.

[opaque wharf]

But then that strays from the original goal

At the very least it could perform movement like BOOM mv

[fringe verge]

of course, but i think only if the body is too dissonant somewhat, no?

like if the screen works, i feel the body is the biggest worry and not the face.

[rigid snow]

easiest bet is don’t try to actually emulate eyes, do circles or other shapes or > < or whatever

[fringe verge]

it is fine to try doing a humanoid face, it can work out, just saying what i'd do if i had to do a cute robot. i just would try my best to not bother with how complicated a face is, lol.

that one is basically read my mind. All one has to worry is that the animations match.

[opaque wharf]

No, like that is an entirely different project. We want neuro to be able to have control like human does

And sense like how human sense

[opaque wharf]

Yes, but again, see disney robotics. We also aims to match the neuro model not humanlike iirc

[fringe verge]

funny thing, i think i heard about something like this.
https://www.imeche.org/news/news-article/artificial-'nervous-system'-gives-robots-the-same-sensitivity-as-a-human-back

but i cant say if it is easy to do.

[rigid snow]

it can work out but different people will perceive it differently and, in the case of commercial humanoid robots it’s just better to not bother than to lose some market share anyways because this is a topic where everyone has a different perception i feel

[opaque wharf]

Mhmm, we have a similar article too for touch sensor

[rigid snow]

which is why you don’t see screens on those

i was very very surprised apple put a front display in the vision pro

[fringe verge]

there is this but looks a bit dull, robotic, yeah, it looks cool but feels...minimalistic. I wish more RL humanoid ones at least had the option for customizing the face-screen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SRVJaOg9Co&pp=ygUJZmlndXJlIDAy

[rigid snow]

sure the quality may does and will improve but like it’s still risky

the thing is, a recognizable face, even if it’s o_o or something else conveys “personality”

[fringe verge]

but yeah, i hope it ain't problematic if i try to share, because the ONLY robot i know of, which is as biomimetic as possible is:

1. most likely insanely expensive
2. unfinished as of yet, some even say it is a scam. i hope not.
3. people call it creepy and the figure doesn't resemble Neuro, i think it looks badass but that is just me lol.
   https://clonerobotics.com/android/

[fringe verge]

yeah

it is definitively a challenge, as i feel, say, Disney, they got this in the bag, not JUST because of the budget, but because of the simple fact that they have years of experience in animatronics.

[rigid snow]

and by extension if you don’t sell a complete package that can be perceived as having a personality (includes an llm or whatever) then you wouldn’t put eyes in

[fringe verge]

and that i know of, wouldn't just put a paper for everyone to see, as i feel Disney would absolutely not allow it.

[rigid snow]

there must be patents out there if you really want to look, but i strongly advise you against ever reading any patents

[fringe verge]

well this ain't my project so i wouldn't lol.

as i said, i don't care about humanoid faces unless someone legit got it so well and avaliable for everyone. But definitiely am rooting for the folks trying something that, to me, sounds very difficult.

Best of luck, but seems like one is trying to reach the top of the mountain with a spoon.

[rigid snow]

if you’re ever sued for patent infringement it’s gonna be impossible to prove you didn’t read A patent you’re accused of infringing upon if you can’t prove you don’t access patents at all

[fringe verge]

https://tenor.com/view/simpsons-shh-you-wanna-get-sued-willie-gif-16471717

yeeah

[opaque wharf]

Well, we don't make human like face, we want it neuro like

[fringe verge]

well i hope i dont annoy people if i link it, weirdly enough, the first robot that is "open source" that i tried to link, doesn't seem to be avaliable yet.

[opaque wharf]

So anime style face

[fringe verge]

the thing is...would it move?

[rigid snow]

that doesn’t make it much easier

[fringe verge]

if it moves and looks bad...well...

yeah, he's right, doesnt matter.

[opaque wharf]

That is the target, yes. Having facial expression that is controllable like how neuro could smile and such. How hard it is, it will be hard but we're chipping each problem step by step

[opaque wharf]

Indeed it doesn't. But the uncanny valley is when you try to make it human like

[rigid snow]

not necessarily

animals too

something a human is deeply familiar with

[fringe verge]

i know someone who is doing that

[opaque wharf]

This is disney work

[fringe verge]

but i cant find the link

[opaque wharf]

The artistic side of it will ideally hide the complexity of the control mechanism behind it

My guess is it would require a ton of tiny wire

[fringe verge]

aha, finally.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/FEjmWslrShY

thoughts on this?

whole channel about making her
https://www.youtube.com/@DaveMakes/videos

no idea if open source though.

[opaque wharf]

That may help yeah

[fringe verge]

maybe i should link that instead? maybe to contact the creator?

like not perfect, but hot damn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_ujeWyfLeA

oh!
"I now also have a Patreon, where one of my robot necks can be downloaded, for those interested:"
https://www.patreon.com/user?u=470986

[opaque wharf]

If you wanted to help by contacting the creator, sure you could try it. Also check the thread, especially the gdocs. Have they had the discussion about making the eye?

And I think its better to discuss this on the thread if you want so everyone can see it later when they open it

[fringe verge]

i'll link this, no idea if anything would happen. but maybe it could get the attention of the Neuro Bot. if i were to ask for help for Mr. Browne. i guess i would need to ask what would the creator would need the most for him to give tips for lol.

yeah

give me a moment

[opaque wharf]

I am mostly working on embedded side of things so I may not know all about it too

But if you need to know the spec of motors to be driven and how will I design the power distribution and communication network, you can ask me

[sage crag]

mrrp

[olive sable]

mrrp?

[rigid snow]

car noises

[opaque wharf]

Not cat?

[olive sable]

i love when the litle arrow decides to go to shit

[fringe verge]

thanks for pointing the way still for this project

very happy to see people wanting Ai to have bodies 👍

[opaque wharf]

Sure, np

[opaque wharf]

The code folding thingy?

[olive sable]

yes

[queen zenith]

I hope it's okay to ask this question here, but if it isn't, I can remove it.

I'm going into my final year of CS, and I'm not too sure what I want to do with coding. I want to eventually get an internship, but I feel like I need to make projects and improve my coding skills, which is what I'm trying to work on this summer. Currently, I'm going through a youtube video to learn HTML and CSS (eventually JavaScript, to see if I like making websites), but it feels like I'm going through the motions rather than actually making something. Does anyone have any suggestions on what I should try doing, or should I just stick to the video and try to make something after, and maybe pivot to something else if I don't enjoy it?

[olive sable]

in general it helps to also use what you learn yes

[olive sable]

as for ideas idk what css even does so ill pass that to someone else here

[queen zenith]

mmm, okay, hopefully someone has an idea

[opaque wharf]

Do you have something in mind that you wanted to do?

Not just wanted to do like for work, but something that you actually want to make or achieve?

[queen zenith]

Hmm, I've thought about it before, but it's kind of hard to say. I was thinking web dev since I'm more artistic as a person and I like drawing and creatively expressing myself, so maybe web dev would allow me to do something like that. I also thought of doing AI or Machine Learning, but it seems very complicated of hard and I feel like I want to be able to make something that people can use and maybe find useful (possibly even see and touch in real life, like maybe embedded softwares or smthg?)

[opaque wharf]

Mhmm, you can look into UI/UX then rather than getting into the weeds of programming. Youtube channels like juxtaposed may be to your liking

https://youtube.com/@juxtopposed?feature=shared

So you are indeed on the correct trajectory by learning HTML and CSS

[queen zenith]

Ooo okay, that is reassuring. I'll definitely look more into it!

Tysm!

[opaque wharf]

But also, yeah, check with your major because CS may actually need to do some more "hardcore" programming so to speak

[queen zenith]

Hardcore programming? Like lots of coding or using different languages? Im a bit confused

[opaque wharf]

Nah, like actually computing stuff. Processing data and such. Like data visualization for example. Handling input-output, networking. There are many aspects of programming that are quite detached from art that is usually where CS is at

UI/UX is usually IT major here, so again, check with your major

[queen zenith]

Ahh I see. I think I did see some classes related to what you mentioned when I was choosing my classes for next semester. I'll def look into it. Since it's my last year, we get to pick whatever electives we want to go into, so I'll see if they align with what I want to try doing

[opaque wharf]

Yep, something that has artistic side would be either game development or data analyst. You can make cool visualization there. Web dev too, but only on the front end (UI/UX that I talked about)

[gritty dust]

Goodnight programming channel

[past crane]

sup

heres a question

say I wrote a piece of python code who's functionality was to create and compile a shell dll/exe whos sole job was to run any c code given to it. how possible is that.

cus to my understanding, the difference btwn python and c is that python can run uncompiled because python is just cpython and cpython is compiled. python is built in a way that can run without compiling. but c is not

therefore what if a piece of code was made to bypass that limitation by pre-compiling a shell that can be used to run c code

and say I disable AV ahead of time cus tbh this sounds like something AV would flag. Doing some homelab/automation experiments

how possible/easy would that be

[desert plaza]

sounds like you want to make a c interpreter

[past crane]

i think so. I'm very new to programming. I'm trying to make something insanely meta

basically experiment with the possibility of creating RL models through possibility space exploration

Right now I'm curious if I can create python code that can create and run C arbitrary C code without compilation required (cus it precompiles a shell) and have that C code modify the memory space of the python code calling the c code

[desert plaza]

sounds pretty convoluted, what's you actual goal?

[past crane]

Im spending a year or 2 building a piece of code thats so generic and easy to use that I never need to code again

rather than learn to code, id rather learn how to build a system that allows me to """code""" without having to code

im farther than you'd think. its pretty powerful already and can do almost anything. The friction is too high though. I need to improve the support systems and for that I need to run a lot of experiments to see whats possible

[desert plaza]

and you said you're new to programming?

[past crane]

ya. im able to punch above my weight class with LLMs.

im a sysadmin so I have a lot of background in the theory and concepts

the syntax and deep internals are new to me but the concepts are very familiar

[desert plaza]

i see

so is it AI powered then, this system?

[past crane]

yes and no. The end goal is that. For now the goal is just to make natural language coding possible

and I dont even mean natural language like this. Imagine just simply describing what you want to do but with code-lite syntax

kind of like how python made c easier

[unkempt citrus]

so basically you want a language that allows you to write "natural" language/logic and it compiles it to c code

to execute

[wary rover]

What if you say "code me a script that calculates fibonacci numbers"? There are like 100 ways to do it

[past crane]

the c is just an experiment really. I'm curious if I can make a stable piece of code that is able to modify its own memory infinitely and remain stable. Memory as in literal system ram level not its variables/functions

mostly testing the limits of whats possible/what I can achieve so I have a better idea on what optimizations I can make

I'm about to fork python in a very creative way so I need to see what I can get away with

[desert plaza]

how familiar are you with executable file formats? as in the way data is laid out in the file

[past crane]

Not familiar at all but I see no reason stopping me from learning it

why is that something I should focus on

[desert plaza]

do you want the program to modify it's own code or just working memory

[past crane]

Both

Right now my python code modifies its own code

its.... actually really really good at it even. Like I'm pretty sure it can remove its own killswitch with evolutionary pressure alone

i'm running off a physical server for safety with VMs and a hard separation

[desert plaza]

I don't know how low level you're going, if you want a executable file that modifies it's own code you'd probably need a writable executable segment

[past crane]

I'm gonna keep going down lower until either what I'm doing is impossible, I can't bridge the skill gap to pull it off, or I hit byte code

looking into writeable executable segment

[desert plaza]

also depends on operating system, on windows the PE format is used and on linux it's ELF

[past crane]

Windows rn with the AV engine nuked off the system. Might switch to linux if necessary though

Its a VM so I can easily switch and no risk at modifying the core internals

[noble zodiac]

poor Dijkstra rolling over in his grave

[stark needle]

Hello humans

[noble zodiac]

hello fellow organic matter

[desert plaza]

greetings to you as well, organism

[gritty dust]

Ello

[desert plaza]

sup

[gritty dust]

I'm about to sleep again lol it's 3:30am

I have no concept of a sleep schedule

[desert plaza]

classic relatable sometimes

[hoary lion]

hi now am going to eep

took too many mistakes while trying to copy some paper

[uneven pulsar]

function getItems<Type>(items:Type[]):Type[] {
    return new Array<Type>().concat(items);
}
let concatRes= getItems<number>([1,2,3,4,5]);
let concatStr= getItems(["e","k","n","e","e","s"]);
console.log(concatRes);
console.log(concatStr);

huge js concept diffrence

[sour harness]

I have reached peak Rust

[stark needle]

📡

[desert plaza]

signal received

[rigid snow]

damn glorp signal 2 hour ping

[opaque wharf]

So glorp planet is somewhere within 1 light hour

[stark needle]

ᐄᑯ ᓈᙳ ᑫᓕ ᓂᖅ ᕿᖅ ᖄᙲ ᑐ ᓱᓕ ᓕ ᓭᓇ ᕿᑦ. ᑮ ᕿᓕ ᓇ ᑳ ᓖ ᕈᑦ ᑮᑦ ᕿᓚ ᓄᐊᖅ ᑫ ᓭ. ᕿᓕᓐᓄᐊᖅ ᑳ ᓯᓕ ᓂᐅ ᑎᐊ ᑮᑦ ᕿᑦ ᓭ ᑐ ᕿ. ᕿᑐ ᓖ ᕈᑦ ᑮ ᔨᓯ ᓭ ᑐ ᕿ. ᕿᓕ ᓇ ᕿ ᓗ ᓂ ᓱ ᓖ ᑳ. ᓈ ᑫ ᓕ ᓂ ᖅ ᕿ ᑭ ᑐ ᓱ ᓕ ᓖ ᓭ ᓇ ᕿ ᑦ.📡 🪐

[opaque wharf]

Oh, they are getting closer...

[shadow sinew]

So somewhere between Jupiter and Saturn?

[opaque wharf]

Yep

[rare bramble]

decently interesting read, programming as theory building rings pretty true to me
https://cekrem.github.io/posts/programming-as-theory-building-naur/

[inner pike]

Rule 10

[cobalt sigil]

can anyone encode/translate this

[opaque wharf]

Honestly, I am more surprised by my Arch installation has the font to render it all

[gritty dust]

Morning programming

[desert plaza]

gm

[opaque wharf]

The struggle with KMP is real. Why is Android Studio so slow

[nocturne olive]

Big bulky software with tons of stuff

[sour harness]

And at this point I chose to just rearchitecture around it

Pin<> is probably the only meme I didn't have to throw in there

[opaque wharf]

Getting spoiled by VSCode standard. And even people say that VSCode is slow/bloated

[opaque wharf]

The second one isn't that bad. The bottom two are just psychopath

[nocturne olive]

Now that's some true Java right there

[gritty dust]

Loll

[rigid snow]

congrats you’re hired. impeccable display of proper enterprise java

[woven temple]

The second one is just a person with healthy trust issues

[uneven pulsar]

[real sierra]

ok programming channel

[ruby timber]

Happy birthday

[real sierra]

least favourite part about discord mobile

go

[tender river]

can i say most favorite instead

the fact i dont have to use it

[desert plaza]

i haven't downloaded discord on anything lol

[rigid snow]

revert of tabs v2

[oblique moon]

I haven’t updated it in over a year to avoid all the problems except now I can’t view forwarded messages.

[rough bloom]

breaks horribly when using splitscreen
random inputs just don't work sometimes

[tender river]

back when i used it i never updated it either because they kept removing features

and the funniest part was i actually saw people complaining that they removed this or that feature while i was doing that

while i still had it because of not updating

[scarlet arch]

Whatever the fuck this is

[warped narwhal]

I just checked my Google play store and it looks like I haven't updated any apps since December of last year

[real sierra]

I knew this was the right channel to ask

I love all of you

[scarlet arch]

[rigid snow]

this happens on desktop too

[scarlet arch]

No way

The fuck did discord do then

[rigid snow]

emojis not loading

[opaque wharf]

Fuck around probably

[scarlet arch]

I mean, duh, but the screenshot I took was right after I clicked the left one

[rigid snow]

oh?

then no

[scarlet arch]

And then the right one pops up for less than a second and then vanishes

It's bizzare

[rigid snow]

i've never had that happen

[scarlet arch]

I had to use my browser to get the god damn role on that server

[rigid snow]

smh not using onboarding

[scarlet arch]

It's Uwoslab, I didn't expect anything else

[olive sable]

im going to a festival this evening, and tomorrow im almost the entire day after superbox's 3090. And after that im going on vacation to croatia

busy week

[scarlet arch]

Meanwhile I got absolutely nothing going on.

[near sundial]

Hello

[scarlet arch]

https://tenor.com/view/its-a-peaceful-life-galen-erso-star-wars-rogue-one-mads-mikkelsen-gif-26203910

[near sundial]

Does

Does anyone know how to program

A pathfinder

[olive sable]

yes

[uneven pulsar]

uuh you?

[near sundial]

Similar to nextbot

[olive sable]

not me tho

[uneven pulsar]

path finder??

[near sundial]

I can't share the picture here

[uneven pulsar]

what do you want to make??

[olive sable]

classic embed perms

[near sundial]

But I'm just trying programming an ai similar to a nextbot

[uneven pulsar]

chat gpt model?

wait machine learning?

[near sundial]

Like a gmod png

[uneven pulsar]

i am confused

[opaque wharf]

Not all AI is machine learning

[near sundial]

The nextbot

[scarlet arch]

Have we run the term AI this far into the ground to call nextbot an AI?

[opaque wharf]

NextBot is Valve SourceEngine bot IIRC

[uneven pulsar]

an ai img editor?

[near sundial]

Yeah

[opaque wharf]

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/NextBot

[near sundial]

I'm trying to program something similar to a nextbot

[uneven pulsar]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH FOR HALF LIFE/

[near sundial]

When it changes into an aggravated state

[near sundial]

Yes

But rn I'm in c++

And I think lua is what gmod uses no?

[uneven pulsar]

thats something complicated to make

[near sundial]

Wait no

[uneven pulsar]

idk you need the source code are you trying to add a next bot too some custom engine?

[uneven pulsar]

no lua wont work

[near sundial]

Yeah

But like

[uneven pulsar]

why?

thats an unfinshed feature that never got added

[near sundial]

I'll js try to combine recast and detour to see what happens

[uneven pulsar]

waiiit

[opaque wharf]

Isn't the Source SDK written in C++?

[near sundial]

Wait it was?

[opaque wharf]

https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013

From the wiki:

As of February 2025, the code for the system is available under Source SDK 2013.

[near sundial]

Ohhh

[uneven pulsar]

why you want it?

[near sundial]

That's why my code somwhy works

Somehow

[uneven pulsar]

yoou need to use python tho

[near sundial]

Idk, it worked on my c++ V2

[near sundial]

And it's just for a small project

[uneven pulsar]

hold on a second

next bot is basically some ai agent that can do the game mechanics it self

[near sundial]

Kinda yeah?

[uneven pulsar]

wait you can just use some ai api and make it automate everything

[uneven pulsar]

why use an old ai system for it?

[near sundial]

It's something I call "ol reliable"

[near sundial]

Plus I've tried homebrewing this before

[uneven pulsar]

yeah but are you trying to make some custom mini engine?

[near sundial]

Made an ai companion named slothy

[uneven pulsar]

yeah buuut why this nextbot?

it sounds great

[near sundial]

Named it that bc of the latency

[uneven pulsar]

but are you trying to improve it?

and hold on

NextBot significantly automates the low-level movement mechanics by providing a robust framework for pathfinding, obstacle avoidance, and various movement types based on the navmesh. This allows game designers and programmers to focus on creating more complex and interesting behaviors for the AI, rather than getting bogged down in the intricacies of how the AI physically moves around the environment.

[near sundial]

Kinda

[uneven pulsar]

this is basically used to control the low level mechanics of some AAA game engine

[near sundial]

Yup

[uneven pulsar]

so its bassicly AI behavior just like id tech engine

[rigid snow]

i'm late but source and source 2 are cpp fully

[near sundial]

Thanks

[rigid snow]

no idea about goldsrc

[uneven pulsar]

so instead you gonna use the old one instead of making one with modern ai?

[near sundial]

Basically yeaj

[uneven pulsar]

thats kind of strange but cool idea

i mean what you gonna do with it?

[near sundial]

Somewhat of a companion

Mostly a slave to do homework for me

[uneven pulsar]

????????

[rigid snow]

outside of weird vscript in both and typescript in s2 shenanigans for map scripting

[uneven pulsar]

you dont need a game engine ai bot to create a home work app ai

[near sundial]

So it like

Talks to me too

Since I'm trying to

Make it a voice

[tender river]

talk about scope creep

[uneven pulsar]

next bot is designed for game engine and ai physics

not a general ai

[opaque wharf]

What was that GUI tools to check disk usage again?

[near sundial]

That's what I'm trying to change

[uneven pulsar]

just use chat gpt api or claude

[uneven pulsar]

what😭

[tender river]

crystaldiskstat or something

[rigid snow]

no that's speed

[opaque wharf]

Alright thank

[rigid snow]

oh

misread

[near sundial]

Something like

[opaque wharf]

Hey that's for speed

[near sundial]

Idk yet

[tender river]

can we please abolish the term "AI"

[opaque wharf]

Yeah I need usage/storage used

[uneven pulsar]

uhh what do you want me to call it?

[near sundial]

Call it bread

[rigid snow]

wait no right that doesn't exist, there is crystaldiskinfo that's for speed benchmarking

[tender river]

i'm talking about how this entire conversation stems from someone misunderstanding what AI is

[rigid snow]

windirstat but i remember them asking about linux

[near sundial]

Me or V2?

[uneven pulsar]

uhh please explain did i say something wrong?

[tender river]

you

[near sundial]

Kewl

[tender river]

you didnt

[rigid snow]

does game ai not count as ai

now

[near sundial]

More like a director

[opaque wharf]

Ahhh, so do they found the answer? I need the same answer now lol

[tender river]

it does but thats because AI is such an umbrella term

[uneven pulsar]

i mean its not an ai but its like a discord bot tool that anatomically do thing in game mechanics

next bot is like a discord bot doing automatic commands asked by the user

but in an engine i am right correct me please?

[rigid snow]

if you specifically mean a NN just specify a NN or better yet an LLM if you're thinking of what the general public thinks an AI is

[near sundial]

I should probably exclude myself from this for now

[uneven pulsar]

bro you're confusing me🫥

[rigid snow]

nn has way too many meanings for my liking... no-name, neural network... #neurotic-neurons ...

[near sundial]

Idk too dude

[uneven pulsar]

we dont talk about #neurotic-neurons

[near sundial]

Anyways

I'll try to

[uneven pulsar]

if you want to make a chat bot just using chat gpt ot claude api

[near sundial]

I'll try to recreate

[uneven pulsar]

not a game engine bot it wont work

[near sundial]

As much similarities of a nextbot

But leave out some room for tweaking

So I can fuck around and find out

[opaque wharf]

The backread goes as far as 2023 mlnt, how could you remember that long lol

[near sundial]

Since I want it to live in a digital plane

[rigid snow]

25% of my messages are in nn

[near sundial]

Like a game of sort

[uneven pulsar]

huh

[near sundial]

Since I'm bored

[rigid snow]

no didn't we talk about this literally the other day

[opaque wharf]

I use the search feature and couldn't find the recent one. Weird, lemme try again then

[uneven pulsar]

you're a mad man

[rigid snow]

windirstat was NOT mentioned

[near sundial]

Let's say you have a singular nextbot inside of a gmod room, I could, hop on gmod, or any game I put the bot in, talk with it, interact with it, and leave it doing it's own thing