programming

[dry charm]

which are defined in an egg

Also before we derail with Ptero talk, In this case you still have the option to encrypt your token and decrypt it on the fly, removing the ability to read by third party without running your bot

This is not possible with the builder application

atleast not what I've seen

[rigid snow]

the decryption key still ends up on their infra tho

so this doesn't matter

[dry charm]

You can argue this doesn't matter, but you still have full control over how your token is handled and piped, while the service above is not

[rough bloom]

not necessarily, no
you can do fancy encryption shenanigans to make it basically impossible for the hosting provider to retrieve stuff like that

[opaque wharf]

DX*

[rigid snow]

what i'm saying is this whole encryption thing is transparent to any legal document, you still give them the token

[rigid snow]

botghost? ux

[opaque wharf]

Oh I thought you were talking about Discord Bot in general

[dry charm]

I just brought up the encryption as an example for control, you are correct about them having the decryption keys, but technically any hosting has your whole data in their possession, if they wanted they can just dump everything

[opaque wharf]

See, the thing with that ToS is its stupid

Sharing token with third-party is done everytime

[dry charm]

Like for example, I know that my VPS hosting has a weekly full image backup. If they really wanted they can just boot up the whole image and crack open my bitwarden and have all my passwords

[rigid snow]

the tos isn't even stupid

bot hosts are exempt

it's just how they apply the tos

[opaque wharf]

Okay, fair. But also, shouldn't the user be responsible for their own token anyway?

[dry charm]

They should not be tbh and discord should create an authorization page for discord bots just like how applications request it

[opaque wharf]

The ToS could be worded differently

[dry charm]

The main concern is that users who do not posses the ability to create their own but are more likely to not have the knowledge how to handle a token safely

That is why it is in the TOS to discourage from sharing. Yes, it is their responsibility, but still

[rigid snow]

if you are asking for tokens in bad faith you absolutely should be breaching the tos

[opaque wharf]

Should google IAM also have the same ToS then?

[rigid snow]

on a platform like discord at least

[rough bloom]

I guess it comes down to how much Discord trusts these random bot hosting services compared to, say, AWS
the random bot hosting service is obviously much more of a risk, and it seems Discords tolerance for that got a lot lower
(either that, or they just want an excuse to shut everyone else down and ship those features themselves instead)

[opaque wharf]

Hmm, this is a fair argument

[dry charm]

No idea what is that or how it works

[opaque wharf]

When a site has "login with google" they need to get the secret/token from google

[dry charm]

That is a Google issued identity token and shared between host and google, not provided by the user

That would be the correct way to authorize bot access in this case on Discord as well

the correct alternative to user provided bot token

Does the user even receive such token on the clientside for google login?

[opaque wharf]

If a theoretical 3rd party site builder could support google IAM by providing your own token?

[dry charm]

I do not think you are even allowed to do that

Like implementation wise

I'm 100% sure it has to go through google domain first to be a valid token

[opaque wharf]

Why? The site is just asking for token. The application can then retrieve this token and be identified as your application

[dry charm]

But even if you could, in theory provide the token, it would be a major problem

[dry charm]

Google needs to issue an identity token to identify the user. For that it first needs to authenticate the user to google on the domain.
I do not think these tokens are long lived.
Ignoring these and having a lifelong token, you could in theory use it, but at this point it is just a convoltued example

[opaque wharf]

I'm not talking about user token here

Application token, so your app can verify that a user has in fact logged in to google

Your application is just querying google "Hey, I have this request here, is this request authenticated?"

Alright then don't think of it as google IAM, but any google service

Since you seems to be confused about application token and user authentication token

[dry charm]

I was confused why you brought this up, but now I understand what you meant

but I think that the two situations are not similar

Since you are implementing a Google Auth in an application either you wrote, or a plugin, lets say Wordpress site

In this case it seems like the same kind, but you still control the plugin which requires the Google Token

[opaque wharf]

But wordpress.com host the plugins

[dry charm]

That does not essentially matter, since you are running a generic wordpress site, they are not specialized to host a "Google Login Application"

Once again the "host a specific thing" vs "you can do this thing but host others" come up which is on the edge

[opaque wharf]

This will be cursed, but you can create the same authentication service via wordpress

[dry charm]

Yes you can, it is interesting that it was not done yet, but I suppose there are reasons, due to so many services available

[opaque wharf]

Yes, and the point is google doesn't limit their token use to 3rd party. The token requester is responsible for their token. When breaking a ToS is identified to come from said token then that user is responsible because they let the token being misused by 3rd-party

[rigid snow]

in conclusion i don't think the set of employees @ bot compliance handling botghost's case fully understand the tos or the nature of the service they're dealing with; they see: a breach, tokens - we have to shut them down

[opaque wharf]

If the 3rd party that use the token doesn't misuse and break ToS then nothing should matter where the token is located/coming from

[rigid snow]

what they do certainly isn't in bad faith and is fine by their own tos

[opaque wharf]

Exactly. Even bad faith token request will have other consequence for the token requester

[dry charm]

Another point why it is implemented like this, is that there are two options:

• self made software, which requires the token to be send in the background
• Complete software / plugin which just requires a parameter.

Both cases are good, and valid. This is an expected behaviour designed and planned by Google.
Discord did not plan for the second one, where you input the token into a box

[opaque wharf]

Yes, this is my speculation as well. Why they don't like it is a mystery tho

[dry charm]

I completly agree, their reasoning is full of misinterpretations and forcing them to use non existant alternative is ridculous

Also why the request is stupid, is that people might as well just download a discord bot from github, put the token there and their discord servers are nuked cause the bot was malicious

Didn't even need an external service

[opaque wharf]

The only real alternative is to somehow let the user host their own BotGhost instance by one-click install and the script is transparent how that token is handled

So BotGhost can argue, they never store the token. User host it elsewhere

What I mean is, bot ghost could keep their editor proprietary

Their editor could export a JSON description of the bot

And the bot runner is hosted by the user

[dry charm]

I think their model is partially that they run the bots as well, so no burden for the user at all

just build and run

[rough bloom]

I think what Discord is trying to prevent (assuming that security is actually the reason) is the existence of a huge collection of bot tokens that:

• can be leaked, for example through a breach
• can be centrally controlled with uncertainty in the leadership or the security of the application itself (see the Carl-bot situation)

[dry charm]

And potentially less resource intensive, since you can just create shard instances inside a cluster of bots and handle each request and branch dynamically

[dry charm]

I would assume the first one (unless goes to the dark web) are instantly disabled like how other tokens are

But those are good points if we want to assume discord is doing is in good faith

[opaque wharf]

But then again, discord shouldn't get the flak theoretically even if a breach happens

[noble zodiac]

it would still reflect badly on them

[rough bloom]

they shouldn't, but they would, and their platform would suffer as a result of many servers being compromised

[opaque wharf]

Yes, and what I'm saying is they could integrate third party hosting service to make their service still looks seamless and require 2 account instead of one

1 for discord, and 1 for the hosting provider

[opaque wharf]

Oh right, I don't think about the implication of the token leak

Yeah, that would reflect badly true

[dry charm]

it would be a huge PR nightmare

[waxen niche]

Guys, I have a question

Is anyone here familiar with game development?

[opaque wharf]

Probably Sam since he is currently writing his own engine

[waxen niche]

I honestly just wanted to ask what are good engines to start with. I have no experience but I’ve heard GameMaker is good

[stone cedar]

https://develop.games/#nav-tools-engine
Engine choice is very dependent on what you want your game to be. So without context it's impossible to answer that question.

[waxen niche]

Thanks for the link, I think either GODOT or GameMaker is the way for me because I want to make a 2D legend of zelda type game

[opaque wharf]

2D game is simple enough to do in GODOT while also teaches you a lot about the technical stuff. But if you want to focus on the art, then do GameMaker

[waxen niche]

Okay, GameMaker it is then. Thanks for helping 🙏

[lapis wraith]

If it works for you, it doesn't matter the engine you use. No one is gonna judge if the product ends up "good enough". Even if the engine is laughed off all the time. So don't get discouraged to use whatever.

[warped narwhal]

just made my next desktop background, I'm pretty happy with it

[scarlet arch]

Does Vedal not use version control? Like wtf

[olive sable]

apparently not lmao

"this should be a lesson to never vibe code" was a wild statement too

[scarlet arch]

I use it for everything. Like... Even offline and private projects

[sour harness]

Remember, this is the guy who created an AI streamer that broke twitch's all-time subscription record

[rough bloom]

he said "10 minutes before the stream", so I guess he just didn't commit yet

[nocturne olive]

Vibecoding be like: bug

[olive sable]

[scarlet arch]

Arguably Annys fault tho

[olive sable]

even i use more version control apparnetly

[stone cedar]

Hype train record != concurrent subs record?
Or did I miss something big?

[sour harness]

Oh right, hype train, not concurrent subs

[scarlet arch]

I mean, it is guessing. Who knows, maybe he uses git. But not being able to revert a single change he did 10 min before stream is... yeah...

[nocturne olive]

NeuroSynth probably has better version control than Vedal, and that's simply one model per dataset

(using no version control system, just files on a disk)

[olive sable]

i think hes just going for bug fixing instead of reverting

[nocturne olive]

Silly

[sour harness]

Version control is ftp'ing to prod

[olive sable]

oh i apparently have 42k channel points

must be form the subathons

[tender river]

i dont have that much because twitch keeps marking my browser as unverified at random

[scarlet arch]

I'm at 43.1k :D

[tender river]

only 180k

[nocturne olive]

I have 986804 I guess

[sour harness]

Welp, time to warm up some food I guess

[olive sable]

[nocturne olive]

(I never figured out what to do with them)

[olive sable]

bro is almost a channel point milionaire

[rigid snow]

rich

millioneir

[nocturne olive]

If just I could get GPUs with that

[thin wolf]

im surprised this man seemingly vibecoded lmfao. I thought he did it himself

[sour harness]

Ohhh, timed subtitles for Evil

[minor crag]

So it worked

But then I found out 1 bit LLMs are a thing

[nocturne olive]

Sounds pretty useless

[minor crag]

So I'm rewriting like 70% of my code in 86 days

[hoary lion]

huh

1bit llms are not super useful

[minor crag]

It isn't literally a 1 bit llm

[sour harness]

I'll be impressed if there is a frontier model running on 1bit. Well, 1.56 bit if we go by that recent paper

[hoary lion]

1.58

not 1.56

log_2 3

[minor crag]

Just look at bitnet v2

So I'm ripping off Microsoft in 86 days

[olive sable]

hi konii

i see you typing

[noble zodiac]

the typing notification is too powerful

[tender river]

matrix has read indicators

[warped narwhal]

[olive sable]

wut?

my lurking

[tender river]

on one of the discord servers i was in everyone was reacting to every single message with the same emote which kinda served as a read indicator

[opaque wharf]

I hate this

[olive sable]

nooo the web version is fucking up again

fucking gltf laoder

[stark needle]

i typed

This is a crucial statement

[olive sable]

[nocturne olive]

Silly

[sage crag]

i am above the need to finish my messages

sometimes i just decide im not interested in that thought any more

[olive sable]

fair

[opaque wharf]

My god the memory leak solution is legend

[opaque sigil]

me when i finish typing a paragraph but decide to scrap it and not entertain that thought any longer

[opaque wharf]

Have a memory leak? Install more RAM -Vedal987

[opaque sigil]

i like dealing with memory leaks the erlang way

obliterate the process and go again

[scarlet arch]

What kind of shit does he do to have memory issues

[opaque wharf]

Unholy things I imagine

[scarlet arch]

Right

[olive sable]

allocate memory i gues

[scarlet arch]

I've developed shit that lives off of 20MB ram and runs a full DPI and connection tracking. I'm scared of what he's doing

Or rather, what unity is doing haha

[olive sable]

ive developed shit that have no memory leaks in ram, but have major memory leaks in vram

[opaque wharf]

To be fair, programming in Game Engine is a whole other beast than CLI/headless software

[scarlet arch]

Haha

[scarlet arch]

I've used bevy before. Worked just fine and was very optimized. But I guess I have no experience with bigger engines

[opaque wharf]

Bevy is technically not a game engine in the traditional sense I think

[scarlet arch]

Either way, very weird. Hope Vedal fixes it. Just rewrite Neuro in Rust

[sour harness]

It is though? Just doesn't have an editor yet.

[opaque wharf]

I haven't take a look at it again since a good few while now. So maybe its now feature complete as game engine

Different model cause different issue. This is more and more cursed lol

[scarlet arch]

I thought models are just... frontend

Controlled by different software

[opaque wharf]

Dangit I got ads

[opaque wharf]

You would think right

But if the parser somehow eff things up, it may be possible

Which is highly unlikely tbh

[scarlet arch]

Does Unity support memory sanitizers?

[tender river]

cubism core is actually 0-alloc

whatever issue it is it's with the libraries built on top of it

[scarlet arch]

I have no idea what that is

[tender river]

the part of live2d that doesnt have source code available, it deals with loading the model and updating its parameters depending on the inputs

[opaque wharf]

Hearing vedal speak about his issue is very fun to speculate what sort of fucked up shit he is doing lol

[sour harness]

I got it to do this, so I think it's ok-ish

[scarlet arch]

I see. So basically the model controller that takes face input and transforms stuff?

[opaque wharf]

Nice

[tender river]

mhm

their file format leaves a bunch of 0 bytes to put pointers in

[scarlet arch]

Yeah I figured that doesn't really allocate anything. If it's truly model dependent then I'd be very concerned

[scarlet arch]

Eeeeeh what

[opaque wharf]

Maybe capnproto?

[tender river]

its not capnproto

proprietary format is a feature not a bug

[tender river]

so you just give it a mutable borrow of the file's bytes and it doesn't have to allocate

[opaque wharf]

Nice technique to put 0 byte reserved for ptr tho

[scarlet arch]

Give me enough models and it's reversible. I hate closed specs

[tender river]

i have a reverse engineered version of cubism core

but trust me you're NOT reversing it from looking at models alone

[scarlet arch]

Haha

[olive sable]

fixed
im not really sure what it means but i replaced it with std::shared_ptr

[scarlet arch]

I've reverse engineered network protocols before. Can't be that hard :P

[tender river]

small snippet

[scarlet arch]

Ew

Nice background

But ew

[opaque wharf]

Did Vedal not do caching?

[olive sable]

[tender river]

there are also different warping methods

basically, no, you have to properly reverse engineer it, not just look at the models

[scarlet arch]

The formatting is making me uncomfy

Also how'd you go about reversing it? Looking at the library/binary?

[tender river]

i have like 8-9 years of reverse engineering experience so yeah

[scarlet arch]

Neat

[frank lava]

I wanna see the rice

[tender river]

https://github.com/chayleaf/dotfiles/

[frank lava]

might try nix

[opaque wharf]

Dew it

[frank lava]

Yeah

[wary rover]

I read some boring stuff. Took a bit more than 5 hours

I now respect my computer immensely, because it might be more complex than me

[tender river]

+2k lines of code in my dotfiles

[opaque wharf]

What is raid spoiling?

[tender river]

saying "raid incoming" in chat before it actually happens

[opaque wharf]

Ahhh, thanks. I only use twitch to watch neuro lol

[tender river]

(same)

[wary rover]

AstralSpiff is a good streamer too, I watch him and neuro

[gritty dust]

How's your programming web game going?

[olive sable]

its going...

[gritty dust]

... going good or...

[olive sable]

not sure yet

im trying to do the input stuff for sdl

[gritty dust]

ahhh I see

Sam can I show my dad who does coding as his job the beautiful spinning turtle with Michael Jackson lol

[olive sable]

sure lmao

[gritty dust]

Lolll

Time to show him peak coding

I need to make a new GitHub, it's been like 3 months and the support team hasn't responded on why I got suspended lol (I think it's from the middle finger detection code I wrote lol)

rip

[olive sable]

woudl they really suspend you for that?

[scarlet arch]

Would be funny if you check in the training set consisting of 10 thousand middle finger images

[gritty dust]

It's the only thing I had in my repository besides my robotic arm code so idk

[gritty dust]

Heyyyy I didn't post that in it lol

They haven't directly said why they suspended me even though I appealed 3 months ago and did a follow up every month

[olive sable]

i may have deleted my taskbar lmao

[gritty dust]

Wtf howww

??

[olive sable]

printscreen doesnt seem to be workign so idk

[gritty dust]

Here a fix is to delete system 32 (kidding)

[olive sable]

good idea

[gritty dust]

Lolll

[nocturne olive]

Did you also get the Windows "Absolute death" update that makes the whole OS unusable after it's been running for a while?

[olive sable]

no not really

its probs cuz of explorer patcher

[gritty dust]

... That reminds me, my PC has been on for 40 days... One sec lemme shut it down

[olive sable]

seems like explorer isnt running at all, which would explain the taskabr not existing

[nocturne olive]

Use restart and not shut down, else your system won't be reset to a fresh state

[olive sable]

No taskbar

[nocturne olive]

Meanwhile

[opaque wharf]

Did you use personal email or education email?

[gritty dust]

I'm back

[gritty dust]

Personal

[opaque wharf]

Oh yeah, thats weird

[gritty dust]

3 monitor setup damnnn

[olive sable]

ye

im broke

[opaque wharf]

The optimal number

Any more and its just distracting

[gritty dust]

I only have 2

[sour harness]

Why did commit 100 have to be a workaround hack

[opaque wharf]

Same

[opaque wharf]

The billionth repo on github is about shit

[olive sable]

it looks lik my windows background is also gone lmao

[gritty dust]

Huhhhh

Weird

[sour harness]

Thankfully I'm hosting on my local gitea so shit doesn't affect me

[gritty dust]

My lockscreen

[olive sable]

Windows

Wait guys i lied i still actually have a taskbar

[scarlet arch]

Since when does Suriel have a discord. I recognise that colour anywhere :P

[olive sable]

This is the base windows taskbar i guess

[olive sable]

The mods will get angry so uh.

[scarlet arch]

Didn't ask for a link lol

[wary rover]

Did you censor youtube music?

[olive sable]

yes

my music is private info

[wary rover]

Understandable

Based

[nocturne olive]

Silly

Meanwhile me:

• DELTARUNE OST
• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1HNHqSdGW4

[sour harness]

I hate how gitea only displays relative dates for commits like "3 weeks ago". Nice. So, what was the exact date?

[opaque wharf]

Oh so you have this but complains about RTX vedal huh

[gritty dust]

id never complain lol

[opaque wharf]

Is there no config for it?

[olive sable]

those are 2 diffrent things, i prefer this over rtx vedal 100 times over

[gritty dust]

based my lockscreen is a w fr

[sour harness]

There was a pull request for making it a setting which was closed https://github.com/go-gitea/gitea/pull/24342

At least I learned you can hover over the relative timestamp to display the actual date

seriously, why is this a thing

[opaque wharf]

Open Source development in a nutshell lol

[gritty dust]

@olive sable

[olive sable]

which one did you send?

[gritty dust]

That one

Hold up

[olive sable]

[gritty dust]

Haha

[sour harness]

The perfect fit

[olive sable]

i have figure out movement

decided to spare our ears this time

[stone cedar]

Yoo, ||crank that turtle boy||

[olive sable]

[opaque wharf]

Do rigging next

[olive sable]

jokkes on you, the model is rigged

i jsut need to do the shaders

[opaque wharf]

Awww, dangit. I wanna see Sam suffer with art

[olive sable]

i made that model myself

im a blender man

[opaque wharf]

Woah, nice

[opaque wharf]

I'm a CAD man

And FreeCAD is still ass to work with

[olive sable]

[opaque wharf]

At least KiCAD is usable tho

[opaque wharf]

P H Y S I C S

[olive sable]

its apparentlky pretty easy to do in blender, you just need to wait a long while for it to render

[opaque wharf]

If you actually compute the cloth physics then yea it will take a good while to compute

[olive sable]

iirc that one took like 10 hours even with a 3090, granted i could probably have made a bunch of optimizations if i bothered to do that
like fast gi aprox or caching some stuff in vram

[opaque wharf]

Physics usually done in the CPU so that will always be a bottleneck

[olive sable]

the cloth physics get done before the render on cpu side, didnt actually take that long, maybe 4 min.

i do have 16 cores so idk

[opaque wharf]

Oh, I didn't know cloth physics is cheap

[olive sable]

it can be

depends on how mny subdevisions and some other settings

[opaque wharf]

I'm used to an accurate sim rather than an artistic one I guess. And with huge ass machine

[olive sable]

in the video each time it gets subdevided it took a lot longer
what i also found interesting is that the cloth felt less thick with each subdevision

[olive sable]

im not too sure how acurate blender is, but you do define the mass and gravity and shit

[opaque wharf]

Well yeah, sub-division basically add more point to compute. If 4×4 grid is subdivided it'll be 16×16

But technically it should give more accurate (true to life) result

Also depends on the physics engine / solver

Too small of a sub division may make the simulation numerically unstable/yeet off to fucking wherever (as freya holmer put it)

[olive sable]

[opaque wharf]

8×8 lol wtf was I thinking

Oh ye, 16 point in 4×4 grid turns into 64 point

[amber fractal]

I see xdx, I see a video from Sam. It's time to see what we roll in terms of audio

[rigid snow]

AO?

triple-A engine right here

[rigid snow]

oh my god i got jebaited so hard it's a render

[sage crag]

you have no idea how surreal this is

i just got out of osu

[opaque wharf]

Welcome back to the real world

[sage crag]

real world

[tender river]

real neuro fumo

[sick owl]

Been doing some red teaming for what I assume is an unreleased model

That's not at all horrifying

[gritty dust]

hehe lol

[olive sable]

guys that was made in blender...

like a said before

anyways i have my last 2 exams in a few hours

goodnight

[amber fractal]

[gritty dust]

bro Im sending my dad this

[olive sable]

[somber tree]

Blanket

[gritty dust]

lol

[sick owl]

Fun though, its that hackaprompt red teaming competition that sponsored DougDoug a while back

[gritty dust]

@frail citrus watch this

[tight tinsel]

hour 2 of trying to set up this pc, apperently for the entire time the gpu wasent even being detected

woo

[olive sable]

Goodmorning

[tight tinsel]

alright i managed to make it connect to my laptop so i can use it without a monitor

gpu not being detected is probably because i dont have drivers so ill do that soon

no wifi card problem is """solved""" by connecting it using an ethernet cable to my laptop and then network bridging

which is so incredibly convoluted but its alright

[gritty dust]

I'm about to sleep lol

[olive sable]

I have my last 2 exams so ye

[hoary lion]

hi i was not here today but anyway goodnight

I forgot to write my journal

lol

[safe path]

https://github.com/hyprwm/xdg-desktop-portal-hyprland/issues/292

bro wtf

i cant use zoom screenshare until this is fixed

the fix is alr accepted but its not landed onto webrtc yet

struggle

[opaque sigil]

just tell the others to rotate their screens

or necks i guess

[safe path]

i think ill just side install i3 tbh

[hard shale]

That's somewhat funny.

[safe path]

surely i dont need that much effort to use a shared config between sway and i3

x11 didn't have this issue

why is this so sad

also it is bonkers to me that xdg-desktop-portal-wlr relies on xdg-desktop-portal-gtk for screenshots

in what dimension does that make sense

[opaque sigil]

it does?

[safe path]

it does

i uninstalled portal-gtk and flameshot stopped working

[opaque sigil]

[safe path]

from dbus monitor the screenshot method is just no longer registered

i checked with portal-gtk installed and confirm that the provider is still from wlr

then i checked online and it turns out -wlr depends on -gtk specifically only for screenshots

[opaque sigil]

this reminds me of a really small program that depends on gtk for file dialogs, forgot what it was though

[safe path]

tbh its weird that it relies on -gtk, the source code doesn't say anything

does -gtk pull something extra that -wlr relies on that isn't somehow automatically pulled when i installed the -wlr package

oh maybe i misunderstood, i might just be using -gtk cause im somehow missing grim

[dry charm]

that sounds like a dep issue, where -gtk install/initializes the protocol for screenshot tbh

cause it is supposed to be using dbus no?

[dry charm]

also lmao what an issue on hyprland

[stark needle]

https://youtube.com/shorts/aBFqNHi2DNA

Math

[safe path]

yeah it uses dbus

i also just checked, i do have grim

so tbh i have no damn clue

whatever, if gtk works then it works im not gonna think about it

[hard raptor]

Wasn't hyprland gonna have a premium subscription or something?

[dry charm]

what?

[hard raptor]

https://account.hypr.land/pricing

[dry charm]

OH @safe path are you using XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=sway for flameshot?

[safe path]

am using sway

yes i have that set

[dry charm]

what the fuck

[dry charm]

Oh okay, this is just for premium support + dotnet files

not the whole hyprland

[midnight sigil]

https://isocpp.org/files/papers/P2996R4.html#the-reflection-operator

so we have ^^

insert cat ears in my cpp!!

[olive sable]

Im done with my exams

[hard raptor]

I no use hyprland anyways

[wet basin]

good work sam!!

InaPatPat

[olive sable]

Most of it went well

Im slightly worried about history and chem

Anyways i have vacation now

[trim valve]

gj discord on the typo

wait no I misread I think

just weirdly worded

[opaque wharf]

I'm back. And I will make it everyone's problem

[jagged turtle]

wtf did they send

[trim valve]

some ad about boosting

[jagged turtle]

that sounds stupid

not the perks part, the perks are good

just the yap about how it works like brother be more specific

[uneven pulsar]

nitro is really a waste of money

[uneven pulsar]

CONGRATS NOW FIND A SUMMER JOB😭

[olive sable]

No

I get paid more for not having a job

[uneven pulsar]

well i have to work for a new laptop cuz mine dying😭

[olive sable]

[uneven pulsar]

allocate boost like skill points to levels xor perks

[uneven pulsar]

curious what was the hardest exam you had?

[olive sable]

Chem

I have no fucking clue whati was doing

Redox reaction balances and pH values

[uneven pulsar]

too me it was database exam and python

[olive sable]

Im a python pro so eh

[uneven pulsar]

PostgreSQL made me goated in and passed good the exam

[olive sable]

Aight brb

Getting of bus

[uneven pulsar]

i am an idiot in python

I just had ram added to mine so I can run a local k8s node while compiling some backend monolith while watching neuro with a game tabbed out

[uneven pulsar]

PostgreSQL is goated backend trust if you wanted a good neuro back end

oracle: eats 16mb insert file in 5 minutes with minimum 4gb ram
pg: same file 20s 200mb

DO

[uneven pulsar]

https://imgflip.com/i/9yckvv

[scarlet arch]

why does that still seem slow... hmm

[uneven pulsar]

well its kinda old

[scarlet arch]

that.. doesnt mean anything?

wonder how clickhouse would deal with that file :D

anyway, lunch

[tight tinsel]

pc is finally set up

got vdd so i dont need a fat monitor clogging up my desk and i can just parsec into it

uhhh what else

still need to set up some stuff, debloating windows

but it should be functional

[uneven pulsar]

well maybe cuz well modern servers and idk stuff changed such as new version of web hosting changed

idk i think PostgreSQL is great

[topaz tendon]

idk if this made the news here, but apparently Discord just rolled out AV1 embed/upload support

Seems legit

[rare bramble]

[uneven pulsar]

sophiascript

[sick owl]

https://www.thenationalnews.com/news/uae/2025/06/20/sheikh-mohammed-announces-ai-system-to-become-advisory-uae-cabinet-member-from-2026/

Does this make them the first country to appoint an AI to a government position?

[oblique moon]

Now we just gotta get Neuro in there when they aren’t looking.

[lapis wraith]

Neuro's rights

[stark needle]

https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-computer-sam-altman/

💀

[olive sable]

im sure that will hold up

[ruby timber]

Your honor, my client is illiterate, therefore he cannot read the law

[tight tinsel]

i cant believe the person who was streaming a pc game on his jet dosent own a laptop!

[stark needle]

Elon after posting something on Twitter via pigeon mail

[olive sable]

you must understand, he was using his fridge

your honor, a fridge does not count as a computer

[uneven pulsar]

4 paragraphs in still nothing about how this is relevant to the court case
0/10 trash clickbait journalism

"hey openai u broke promise"
"ok but u really no use pc??"

[rough bloom]

pretty sure that he tweeted about his white house gaming PC a few months ago

[trim jungle]

Hi programming chat

What's this about Elon?

I've been under a rock this past week

[olive sable]

where's the source?

[uneven pulsar]

well some trees are dying in northeast china so American lawyers are trying to find out whether musk touches the shampoo bottle with left or right hand first

[trim jungle]

Checks out

Goated pfp+border btw

[uneven pulsar]

heart

[trim jungle]

Is he still on the us government?

Kinda cringe tbh

[olive sable]

#politics

[trim jungle]

Mb

[olive sable]

nah im joking

[uneven pulsar]

jokes are the politics of the funny bone

my motivation to interview prep is gone

help

[trim jungle]

Just hash everything

[rough bloom]

nah he left a month or so ago
something something friendship over

[trim jungle]

Whenever I lose motivation I play a fromsoft game for a few minutes and visualize the man I wanna become...

[olive sable]

[uneven pulsar]

https://tenor.com/view/vedal-vedal987-neuro-sama-femboy-dancing-gif-2707877635282192120

[trim jungle]

Nightreign's been my only source of cope this past week

[uneven pulsar]

i did not expect to find a "vedal femboy" gif but here we are

[trim jungle]

Surely accurate

[uneven pulsar]

also leetcode is more boring than I expected

(how do people exist without auto complete)

[opaque wharf]

This is cursed af

[olive sable]

https://tenor.com/view/vedal-neuro-sama-violence-spin-turtle-gif-5855669107272609680

[trim jungle]

I once interviewed a guy that took a paper and pen to program with a whole computer in front of him

[opaque wharf]

I mean, it helps with doodling architecture diagram

[olive sable]

doodling on pc is a bit hard

[trim jungle]

The question was a simple for loop

[uneven pulsar]

okay this is legit ai

or real

[trim jungle]

It's real

[uneven pulsar]

fuck

i lost hope in vedal

[olive sable]

its real

but its not actually vedal

just a random dude cosplaying vedal

[trim jungle]

Nah. It's actually vedal

[olive sable]

the raytracing is too good for it to be ai

cuz its like, actual physics

[trim jungle]

Veo 3 makes some videos look really legit though

[opaque wharf]

We have no confirmation of this

[uneven pulsar]

Gaytracing you mean?

[opaque wharf]

For even Filian could flip Vedal

[olive sable]

no

[trim jungle]

But what if vedal uses 100% of his back?

[olive sable]

we would all die

thats like an apocalyptic nuclear event

[trim jungle]

The man is carrying the whole ai content creation on his back

Have you seen those videos with veo 3?

Most of them now look super realistic

[olive sable]

we all know vedal is ripped af.

[trim jungle]

And then here on LATAM they make grandads jump and do backflips

[opaque wharf]

The video hide most of the body features with a mantle and oversized cloth

[scarlet arch]

god I love 94 commit rebases..

only 4 conflicts tho :D

[wary rover]

Spent 3 hours reading what is cache. Still don't really understand what is cache

[nocturne olive]

CPU cache?

[wary rover]

I love computer science

Yeah, that's the issue. Like there is a part of CPU integrated memory thing that is cache, there is also like a micro cache thingy that stores the pointer, then there is a cache in the realm of coding that is specific for every app that has it

So it got me very confused

But now I know what is memory allocation and how it works (in very broad sense)

[olive sable]

afaik cache on cpu is just the values currently needed and/or frequently needed

[nocturne olive]

Well, the CPU has the cache and registers, the registers are the fastest locations on the CPU, the cache comes in multiple levels, with the lower levels being faster to access
The CPU's cache is a bunch of very fast memory on the CPU where recently fetched data is stored, which is designed so that reading the same data repeatedly will be faster since it'll already be in the cache

[nocturne olive]

Well, it's just a store of recently accessed stuff

When a value is accessed from main memory, it gets copied to cache, if it gets read again it's read from the cache

[wary rover]

The cache hits!

[uneven pulsar]

to summarize its just you accessing the cpu memory and going through the lower level control

[nocturne olive]

That's not really an understandable summary of what I said

[uneven pulsar]

you just accessing the memory of the cpu taking the data

[uneven pulsar]

i know its stupid

[wary rover]

I believe that if data is drawn from CPU memory and doesnt need to be searched for its called cache hit

[uneven pulsar]

its just accessing memory data

i mean i dont know your just accessing the cpu memory and seeing how fast it is?

[olive sable]

ive always thought of cache layers like in irl, fastest is whats next to you on your desk, after that you have the stuff in the same room, then the stuff in the rest of your house.
ram is like getting is from a warehouse and ssd is gettign it imported from overseas.
idk but it makes sense to me

[opaque sigil]

it's a basic hierarchy

the closer the faster

try accessing faster first before trying slower

[nocturne olive]

The cache is pretty much invisible to the program using it unless it specifically checks the timing I believe

[uneven pulsar]

well the cpu is like the ship who ships and delivers the received data based on one singular instruction

[uneven pulsar]

yeah to be honest.....

.......

i sometimes forget what i am even talking about

most of the time i feel stupid

but idk why now ny brain is working

[opaque sigil]

the only thing you really need to know is that ideally you want to reuse memory and do sequential accesses

rest is handled by the hardware for you

[olive sable]

[opaque sigil]

sth sth temporal and spatial locality if you want some words for it

[uneven pulsar]

idk what to now say

[opaque sigil]

[olive sable]

ideally you limit the amount of data you're passing around. either by reusing it if possible or by making it as small as possible form my experience

for example instancing instead of making 1000 times the same mesh

[uneven pulsar]

this gives me c++ vibes

[wary rover]

Also I understood that stack has an order and is sequentially added to memory, while data from the heap is being tossed haphazardly in the memory space that was allocated and allowed by the OS, so if you will try to put the stack in this general area you might run into the issue, that this space is being "littered" by pieces of heap data, so you will have to allocate more, which is called external fragmentation, but why can't you allocate the heap in the stack-like way, just placing pieces of it tightly one after the other instead of "shotgunning" them into allocated region? Kinda a mystery to me rn

[olive sable]

wdym?

[uneven pulsar]

so thats why c++ makes me wanna shot my foot

[uneven pulsar]

low level topic

[opaque sigil]

it depends on the actual allocator, there are some that basically reserve a chunk on the heap and treat it like a stack (arena allocator my beloved)
there are many many different ways someone could be allocating memory so malloc is incredibly complex to deal with that

[maiden geyser]

isn't that what you're supposed to do in c/c++

[uneven pulsar]

yeah

i should use a spas 40

[wary rover]

Also I know why stack overflow is called like that now

That was a cool discovery

[opaque sigil]

[wary rover]

I'll go watch some more memory related stuff, I really liked it. You have fun guys!

[opaque sigil]

have fun

i would love to have fun but texas instruments says no

[maiden geyser]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9z6anez3GE

is this the first ever Low Level stream

[olive sable]

c++ isnt hard, its just a pain i guess.
just spent 10 min bugfixing a missing ;

[opaque sigil]

was it glsl at least

[olive sable]

no

it was just very roundabout about it cuz it was part of a class that im using inside a diffrent class, and both of those are inhereting from a base class

this basicly

[rough bloom]

it's just a syntax error, not even memory management related

[olive sable]

ive had enough memory issues already

[rough bloom]

you're still using C++, so clearly not

[olive sable]

i woudl rather have 100 memory leaks than rust

[opaque sigil]

why not both

[olive sable]

[rough bloom]

true, leaking memory is okay in Rust

it's bad, but not unsafe

[uneven pulsar]

c++ ALERT

[olive sable]

we dont need an alert for this, weve been over this

[uneven pulsar]

bwaaaa

[olive sable]

bwaa

[rare bramble]

though Rust is also pretty good with preventing memory leaks, since it tries to keep as much things in stack as it can and only use the heap when it needs to. C++ on the other hands just throws random stuff into heap whenever it feels like it

[olive sable]

you could micro-manage it im pretty sure

at the end of the day im compiling to wasm anyways so idk if it actually matters that much

[wary rover]

Rust has borrowing an ownership which avoid the step with heaps and garbage collector, so if you are good enough you can make your code memory unleakable. I think

[rough bloom]

yeah, it's much less of an issue since you have to keep track of lifetimes anyway
there are still subtle causes of memory leaks though (Rc cycles for example)

[olive sable]

Rc?

[rough bloom]

reference counted pointer

[rare bramble]

ye, runtime reference counting

[rough bloom]

if two of those somehow keep each other alive, then their reference counters will never be 0 and so they will never be dropped/freed

[olive sable]

ah

i mostly have issues with my refernces not being kept alive

doing a cheeky std::shared_ptr since i have no real solution

[wary rover]

Make every value global, easy

[olive sable]

never

[rough bloom]

that one can't happen in Rust
(but is also easily preventable in C++ through smart pointers like you said)

[opaque wharf]

What did TI do to you? Forcing you to their godawful IDE?

[olive sable]

TI connect?

its usable...

[rough bloom]

or use that C++ CLR thing and have a garbage collector

[olive sable]

CLR?

[opaque wharf]

Btw @wary rover , cache is just another storage. RAM is also a storage. Register is also a storage. The difference is how the CPU access those. Cache is usually close to the CPU so the signal has to travel shorter distance than the RAM

[olive sable]

almost everything a pc does is just storage

[opaque wharf]

What in the fuck is this...

A calculator that could connect to computer

[olive sable]

their calcualtor connector app has a built in ide for writing ti basic

[rough bloom]

C++/CLI
a version of C++ that runs on top of the .NET runtime

[opaque wharf]

Sounds cursed ngl

[olive sable]

that does not help

.net is the c# thing no?

[opaque sigil]

their linker isn't doing linker things so i have two different symbol tables, one of which includes bad symbols that should be stripped off and cause tests to fail cause they're mapped to 0x00 for some reason

[rough bloom]

C++ except it works like C#

[olive sable]

ah

[opaque wharf]

Yeah, but now its C++

[olive sable]

huh

[maiden geyser]

C||++|| Language Runtime
basically thing that lets you use std functions

[rough bloom]

no, the other one

Common language runtime

[olive sable]

ti basic...

its awfully slow, but it works i guess

[rough bloom]

that reminds me, some TI calculators (including that one I think) are overclockable, and it's actually somewhat useful

makes graphing way faster

[opaque wharf]

I fucking hope so with overclocking and all lol

[rough bloom]

I don't think it even changed any actual clock, just memory timings or something

[olive sable]

mine isnt overclockable, but it is possible to lower the wait state

[rough bloom]

yeah, that

[olive sable]

never bothered to actually do that tho

[sick owl]

https://share.google/BbXwn7ssgbaX1bEOY

https://cdn.7tv.app/emote/01GKWGE1JG0008WQXAQXY4S1YT/1x.avif

[scarlet arch]

[opaque wharf]

Who tf are you working with?

Slap them now

[opaque wharf]

Now OpenAI will just promote you any product imaginable

[desert wave]

I hope you have rerere turned on

[scarlet arch]

it's a massive feature branch that needs rebasing every now and then :D

[scarlet arch]

I do not, as it can actually backfire lol

[opaque wharf]

I legit think you should use pijul if you're doing that many changes at once quite often

[scarlet arch]

nah we rebase this branch maybe every two weeks, takes at most a day, but not because of conflicts but rather because of reference files that need updating and that takes a while

it's already rebased and the code is fine. the thing I'm doing right now is just updating reference files in commits that need it

[opaque wharf]

That's good to hear at least

[scarlet arch]

I even fully automated it :P

git rebase -i --exec "if git diff-tree --no-commit-id --name-only -r HEAD | grep -q 'tools/<diff tool>/ref'; then echo 'Running tests - reference files changed'; cd <project>; make <find diffs>; else echo 'Skipping - no reference changes'; fi" origin/master

[opaque wharf]

Also, every two weeks count as often because it implies that it's a re-occurring thing. At least for me tho. If its just a one off thing then yeah, its not something often

[opaque wharf]

Noice

[scarlet arch]

we're changing quite a bit in that branch. we can't yet merge to master as the next release is still on there. once branched off into it's own release-v..., we'll finally merge :D

funnily enough, a second branch depends on that branch, and that one has equally as many commits

and another branch depends on that one.

this mess should be over in two months or so

[opaque wharf]

Really growing and nurturing that tree huh

[scarlet arch]

it's quite wide at the moment :P

just checked, about 20 active branches

[opaque wharf]

But with big enough project I think it is the best practice possible

[scarlet arch]

oh yeah definitely. works well for us

[olive sable]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-sprvJX07E

"I’ve been coding in C and C++ for 40 years, now that im finally gettign good at it"

[opaque wharf]

Oh it gets better Sam, don't worry

[maiden geyser]

that guy

[olive sable]

do you have something against him?

[tender river]

stroustrup said he knows like 70% of c++ iirc

[maiden geyser]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GeF9AjlqP8

[olive sable]

ah

hmmm

[opaque wharf]

Also don't use new operator on latest C++ I think

[tender river]

hm? why?

[opaque wharf]

Isn't object creation now handled with smart pointer?

[olive sable]

bro has a whole google docy 💀

ye the evidence is pretty damning

but scamming people is the microsoft way so

[maiden geyser]

was scamming people before it became mainstream

[olive sable]

even if you leave the company, the company never leaves you

[opaque sigil]

Not if you don't use them

[olive sable]

im using them at least

[opaque sigil]

Imagine if you could have their benefits without the runtime overhead, that'd be so nice
Too bad we don't have the technology

[tender river]

toast about to invent the st monad

[olive sable]

i currently dont have a diffrent way to deal with the memory life issues so idk

[opaque sigil]

Arenas

[olive sable]

a new fighter has...

so what are arenas?

[opaque sigil]

They let you group allocations into a single lifetime, you just free the entire arena at once

[opaque wharf]

Memory management stuff

[warped narwhal]

god that reminds me of a lifettime allocator I made in c++. It was an RAII class, and you would pass it to your vector or whatever, but the class would just ignore calls to free, and it free's all it's allocations when it is destroyed

[sage crag]

yes that is an arena

[opaque wharf]

I love it when you're explaining the concept to someone and they argue against it but as you explain it more and more they slowly come up to the things that you're explaining in the first place

[warped narwhal]

The backgrounds have been improved (My blender skills are getting better)

[sharp mantle]

chatGptFor500dollars (from r/ProgrammerHumor)

[uneven pulsar]

i can do that

[sharp mantle]

just a wrapper? xdx

[uneven pulsar]

get a domain, redirect to gemini

bam

[sour harness]

set up and skin open webui, use others as backend, done

[uneven pulsar]

ain't doing all that for 500

[sage crag]

managed to get hblang hello world down to 531 bytes

[warped narwhal]

that's pretty small, but consider the following:

[sage crag]

well, manually written binaries are going to be smaller

the only way this can get smaller now is code optimisations, most of which are only possible if the _start is unified with the main

i could make the binary smaller myself by optimising the program of course

[opaque wharf]

Or forego software and just make hardware

[sage crag]

_start:
    sub rsp, 0x08
    mov rax, 0x02
    mov rcx, [rsp+0x08]
    add rax, rcx
    mov rdi, rsp
    add rdi, 0x10
    mov rsi, rax
    sub rsi, 0x02
    call :main
    mov rsi, rax
    mov rdi, 0xE7
    mov rax, rdi
    mov rdi, rsi
    syscall
main:
    push rbx
    sub rsp, 0x08
    mov rbx, 0x01
    lea rdx, [0x0000000000000007]
    mov rcx, 0x0C
    mov rsi, rdx
    mov rax, rbx
    mov rdi, rbx
    mov rdx, rcx
    syscall
    lea rdx, [rsp]
    mov rax, 0x0A
    mov [rsp], al
    mov rsi, rdx
    mov rax, rbx
    mov rdi, rbx
    mov rdx, rbx
    syscall
    mov rax, 0x00
    add rsp, 0x08
    pop rbx
    ret

right now still pretty bad

[warped narwhal]

lea rdx, [0x0000000000000007]

[sage crag]

the two syscalls in main are because im separately writing hello world and \n lol

[sage crag]

absolute offset to the "hello, world!" in the binary

[sage crag]

i've fricked up this binary so hard that objdump is failing to produce a disassembly

its ok

[olive sable]

remember when my brother bought a new laptop over a $60 part breaking?

well, my sister is going to be needing a new laptop for school and we're giving the broken one to her now

no e-waste

lenovo 15itl05, only 8gb of ram but besides that its decent

also, aint no way they're making the usb-c output higher res than the fullsize hdmi port

[opaque wharf]

Depending on the HDMI version and the USB, it's very possible

[opaque wharf]

Install linux

[olive sable]

its my sisters laptop now, and its for school

so VERY BIG NO

im just waiting for the new part to arrive this friday

[sage crag]

im having a heart attack, why is the binary a whole 22kb

[opaque wharf]

Why?

Indoctrinate the youngling early to linux

[olive sable]

cuz linux is unusable for most people

[tender river]

i wouldnt say that actually

its usable for most people if you use a beginner friendly distro

its when you have to do some "mid-skill" stuff that a layperson wouldnt be able to do anyway that windows becomes more convenient

[olive sable]

fair, but still i need something that my sister can use without issue

i dont get paid for tech support

[opaque wharf]

Depends on the school honestly. If they use mostly google docs/office 365 then your sister is good for linux

[olive sable]

idk what they use tbh, but the old one has obs and pycharm preinstalled

for some reason

[opaque wharf]

Both are available on linux so still safe

[olive sable]

look im not trying to say linux is bad, cuz its not

but it jsut isnt an option

[opaque wharf]

Yeah fair

[olive sable]

my sister knows windows, the school teachers know windows. this will make it easier

and i also dont really feel like installing a new os on it

[cosmic sphinx]

@sick owl new feature on AI studio
we might (?) have better resolution for images/video now

sure works better than last time I guess, wasnt able to correctly decipher this previously

real game begins when they add 'High'

[sick owl]

Oh nice

[opaque wharf]

It seems like the memory and intelligence upgrade is working good now

[sour harness]

No more thesaurus rants

[sage crag]

hheelllloo,, wwoorrlldddlrow ,olleh

still smaller than c hello world

[opaque wharf]

But why...

[opaque wharf]

Nor calling evil a lot lol

[sage crag]

rewriting iterators to use new language features

before:

$for_each := fn(self: ^Self, $func: type): void {
    loop {
        x := self.next()
        if x.finished break
        _ = func(x.val)
    }
}
```after:
```rust
$for_each := fn(self: ^Self, $func: type): void {
    while x := self.next() _ = func(x)
}

[opaque wharf]

Man, neuro pause when mentioning S.S. Duck-sama is something else lol

[opaque wharf]

Wait, does discord supports hblang syntax? Surely no

[sage crag]

no, just using rust syntax

discord doesnt even support zig syntax

lol

[opaque wharf]

That would be wicked if they did

[rigid snow]

Content-Security-Policy: default-src 'self'; script-src 'self' https://trusted.com; img-src 'self' https://images.com;

???

[opaque wharf]

Where is that from?

[rigid snow]

explain why CSP syntax highlighting is needed??

[sage crag]

discord uses highlight.js

look up the list

[rigid snow]

google "csp example"

[rigid snow]

why is that there

[opaque wharf]

I know what a CSP is. I thought it was used somewhere in prod.

[sage crag]

https://highlightjs.readthedocs.io/en/latest/supported-languages.html
dunno, it has a lot though

[rigid snow]

no i meant the source is from me googling "csp example"

[sage crag]

xquery, vimscript, god damn "test anything protocol"

[opaque wharf]

TAP?

[sage crag]

yes

"angelscript"

"cap'n proto"

[opaque wharf]

That's neat ngl

Eyy, no flatbuffer wtf

[sage crag]

straight up "papyrus"

but no zig

[rigid snow]

not the font

[sage crag]

noe

[rigid snow]

that wasn't a question, how do you think syntax highlighting for a font would work

[opaque wharf]

Make them animated rainbow

[tender river]

vimscript might be a bit older than zig

[rigid snow]

unless...

[hoary lion]

jesus what is this

[sage crag]

rust agrees which is good

[rigid snow]

Glyphs.app apparently (actual link, not accident)

actually goated branding tho, everyone seems to call it Glyphs.app because macos and it's the domain

[real sierra]

0FA

[sage crag]

A

[olive sable]

chatgpt is down?
i need it to help me with pointers

[rigid snow]

2FA now stands for two-faux authentication

[olive sable]

welp, it sure is.

guess ill go try gemeni

[sage crag]

hi

pointers

i know pointers

[olive sable]

i have 2 classes.

class Camera: public Object
{
    public:
        glm::vec3 forwards;
        float zoom;

        Camera(glm::vec3 center): Object()
        {
            forwards = glm::vec3(0,0,1);
            zoom = 3.0f;
            position = center;
        }
        ~Camera()
        {
        }
};
class Player: public Object
{
    public:
        Camera cam;

        Player(): Object(), cam(position)
        {
            position = glm::vec3(0,0,0);
            eulers = glm::vec3(0,0,0);
            glm::vec3 forwards = glm::vec3(0,0,1);
        }
        void update()
        {
            makeTransmat();
            cam.makeTransmat();
        }
        ~Player()
        {
        }
};

it would be pretty cool if the vec3 for center was a pointer instead of a copy

[zealous cobalt]

There's always gemini

[olive sable]

i know

[olive sable]

bwaa

[zealous cobalt]

ah

me blind

[zealous cobalt]

oh god opengl I'm getting flashbacks

[rigid snow]

this that

[olive sable]

this code is not even a single opengl line

[sage crag]

replace both glm::vec3 in Camera with glm::vec3*, replace cam(position) with cam(&position)

[zealous cobalt]

I mean you're literally using glm

[olive sable]

yes

[rigid snow]

i was wondering if i missed something

did we

[sage crag]

only problem here with using a ptr is that its nullable

ideally you would use a reference instead

[olive sable]

kowalski analasys

[opaque wharf]

Or smart ptr

[final river]

hire me vedal

[opaque wharf]

Also, this news is wild
https://aifray.com/claude-ai-maker-anthropic-bags-key-fair-use-win-for-ai-platforms-but-faces-trial-over-damages-for-millions-of-pirated-works/

[sage crag]

to use a ref instead of a ptr, use & instead of *, yeh

though

you cant change the reference value afterwards

so use ptr if you want to change it at any point

[rigid snow]

are you inferring the model on the original gameboy or what

[opaque wharf]

So
Step 1: Buy a book
Step 2: Overfit the hell out of said book
Step 3: AI output can't be copyrighted
Step 4: ???
Step 5: Profit?

[rigid snow]

damn

shoulda kept quiet and made bank

[sage crag]

problem: ai input can be copyrighted

[opaque wharf]

But you buy the book legally

And just then, training for AI is fair use

[rigid snow]

buying the book illegally

[opaque wharf]

Believe it or not, yes. There exists pirated book

[rigid snow]

buying

[final river]

3b model running on cpu and ram while playing helldivers 2

[opaque wharf]

Yes

[sage crag]

its not fair use because the terms for ownership of a copy of the book and ownership of the words of the book are different

[opaque wharf]

As in, it's not printed by a legal publisher

[sage crag]

(dont get on the bad side of publishing agencies they will send you to a new realm)

[rigid snow]

read the article url slug at least

[opaque wharf]

The Northern District of California has granted a summary judgment for Anthropic that the training use of the copyrighted books and the print-to-digital format change were both “fair use” (full order below box). However, the court also found that the pirated library copies that Anthropic collected could not be deemed as training copies, and therefore, the use of this material was not “fair”. The court also announced that it will have a trial on the pirated copies and any resulting damages, adding:

[sage crag]

whether or not the law agrees with me is a different matter

[tender river]

not with that attitude you cant

[rigid snow]

i should make up my own laws and tell them to people so they commit crimes

[opaque wharf]

Please don't make C++ even more cursed

[sage crag]

c++ is as cursed as it ever was

[olive sable]

and its beautiful

[opaque wharf]

And you want it more cursed?

[tender river]

i think theres a level of cursed past which you want more rather than less

[rigid snow]

it's a lost cause at this point, cram everything in, it cannot be any more cursed that it is already

[sage crag]

i swapped

@syscall(1, 1, any.ptr, any.len)
@syscall(1, 1, &'\n', 1)
``` for `@syscall(20, 1, .(any, "\n"), 1)`
and i gained 29 bytes ![neuroBritish](https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1187548551144820857.webp?size=128 "neuroBritish")

[opaque wharf]

You're on to something there

Okay fine, do it

[tender river]

any are you okay

[olive sable]

that sounds like something one of my friends would say about her weight

[sage crag]

also as a side note are you sure you want position to be a ptr

[olive sable]

i think so?

[opaque wharf]

100%. Its fun to see where it will go

[olive sable]

is there a reason for it to not be?

[rigid snow]

i gained 29 bytes

[olive sable]

you should do keeto

[sage crag]

the existence of position will only be valid while the memory it points to is valid

[olive sable]

huh

[sage crag]

if the thing owning the value at position gets deconstructed or moved, position will go bye bye

[olive sable]

i guess it works as long as player's position is valid

[tender river]

vec3 = 24 bytes
pointer = 8 bytes
please learn about cache locality and the cost of indirection

[sage crag]

this is also true

[tender river]

and this is leaving aside the fact pointers are a massive pain to deal with because of lifetimes

[sage crag]

you dont save any computational efficiency by using a pointer instead of a value

[olive sable]

i thought it would be better cuz of using the same vector?

[sage crag]

its better in terms of memory efficiency, but all you save is 3 bytes per camera

[tender river]

basically, instancing is not done via pointers

its done via better code structuring

[sage crag]

since you are only going to have a few cameras in any one scene, it makes a lot more sense to just leave it as an owned value

[olive sable]

the main focus is speed, not really memory usage

[sage crag]

then using a pointer almost never faster

[tender river]

this has nothing to do with memory usage honestly

[opaque wharf]

Then it makes even less sense to do it that way

[olive sable]

i thought copying the array was slower

[tender river]

its not an array though?

[sage crag]

mhm, 3 bytes is an inconsequential amount

[olive sable]

im too used to python

[tender river]

whenever you have a pointer, you must also think "when should i free it"
if you can't answer, chances are you should rethink your architecture

[sage crag]

vec3 is 24 bytes so on 64 bit systems it takes 3 moves to copy it. vs 1 move for a pointer.
but this doesnt take into consideration the cost of accessing the value in the pointer.

[tender river]

and after you answer that, you can pick a smart pointer that does just that

[sage crag]

when you want to access the value, you perform the 3 moves anyway

its pointless (pun intended)

[tender river]

naturally, keep in mind that double frees are illegal

[olive sable]

it basically shouldn't be freed at all until the Scene class deconstructor gets called

[sage crag]

explicity freed when the scene class deconstructor is called

[olive sable]

yes

[tender river]

ok and how are you gonna avoid double frees if you share the pointer?

there is a valid answer btw

and shared ptr is the wrong answer

[sage crag]

bool is_freed

[olive sable]

wdym share the pointer?
i thought only the camera class would have a pointer?

[sage crag]

shared ptr is a standard ptr

anything can read it and anything can write it

[tender river]

you said you wanted position as a pointer

[sage crag]

there is no explicit ownership

[olive sable]

huh

[rigid snow]

ok chay maybe you were right about rust being a better learning tool

[sage crag]

just use an owned value

[tender river]

tldr sam - just consider pointers the spawn of satan and dont use them unless you're very sure of it

[sage crag]

its harder to make your program segfault that way

[olive sable]

well yes, those 16 bytes dont matter

[sage crag]

and the level of micro-opts to use pointers is genuinely inconsequential compared to the actual usage of the engine

[olive sable]

you wont like seeing what ive already done with them then

[sage crag]

what

[olive sable]

valid response

[tender river]

shared_ptr lol

well, you can write python in c++, so enjoy

[olive sable]

it needs to be done this way cuz of otherwise the object gets deleted

[sage crag]

shared_ptr is a smart pointer

[tender river]

its the same as a gc cell in python

[sage crag]

why cant you retain a copy of it

[olive sable]

cuz the copy doenst retain the opengl bindings for some reason

[sage crag]

[olive sable]

i shoudl look into why that is but the gltf loader code is not mine and im scared of it

[tender river]

you might want to use move constructors

[olive sable]

ahyes, move constructors

@grok what is a move constructor

[sage crag]

https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/move_constructor.html
read

[olive sable]

thanks grok

[tender river]

construction sets (like lego) are called constructors in russian which is probably somewhat confusing to people new to programming

[olive sable]

i used to have a building system named "construx" at my grandparents

was very poggers, but 3x my age so all the plastic started breaking

[rigid snow]

i don't see how it can be confusing, you even have parallels to draw, like, aha this thing called constructor is just like a "class construction set" manual with steps how to build it. also pretty sure everyone can infer the meaning of the -construct- word root -- design engineer ("engineer-constructor" in russian, often just "constructor") is common sense no?

[sage crag]

p

[gentle bear]

So, you are talking about the constructors and destructors? One for when object is created and second for when it is deleted?

[olive sable]

i dont speak russian so im not gonna make any statements about it

[olive sable]

thats constructors and deconstructors, now we're doing "move construcotrs" which move data i think

[opaque wharf]

This ain't blackberry messenger

[rigid snow]

unc alert

[olive sable]

i forgot balckberries existed

thats not part of my pop culture reference list lmao

[opaque wharf]

[olive sable]

oldge

[opaque wharf]

I'm probably the same age as chay

[tender river]

well i have never used blackberry

[opaque wharf]

[cosmic sphinx]

imagen 4 available in ai studio at last..

[tender river]

my first phone had a 128x128px display and in 5th grade i bought myself an android phone

[olive sable]

they stopped making phones in 2016, at which point i was 9. and they fell off way before that

[rigid snow]

omg the passport was the coolest thing ever

[opaque wharf]

My first phone is a phone with Java-based OS, had a shitty display, and not qwerty keyboard

[tender river]

i doubt it was actually java based