programming

[tender river]

it doesnt count as embedded in my head

[rough bloom]

the actual terminal in question

-# thank you Wikipedia for the image

[opaque wharf]

Why not? The actual linux kernel output to the device hardware serial UART and to interact with that, you can use the UART RX line

[tender river]

i dont understand why that has anything to do with being embedded

but if you're asking why it isnt a terminal, its because a terminal is a piece of hardware used for interacting with a computer

and a terminal emulator is when instead of having that terminal you emulate it to pretend that you're using a terminal while you're using a regular modern keyboard+monitor thing

[rough bloom]

small + has GPIO pins = embedded
the GPIO capability is the main part IMO
but I guess technically anything that's meant to be used as part of a device instead of a whole counts

[opaque wharf]

Oh, so a terminal is always a hardware

[rough bloom]

yes
that's why it's called an emulator

it emulates the actual physical terminal in the same way a gameboy emulator would emulate a gameboy

[tender river]

a terminal is a device that connects to a computer so you can do stuff with it without using punch cards and whatnot

[rough bloom]

except you don't need to emulate the CPU and hardware details, so it's a lot easier

[tender river]

very useful

there are certain protocols for working with them, like with any device, and terminal emulators have to support these protocols

[opaque wharf]

Also, speaking of embedded I am just using the term loosely. ESP32 has a device capable to make it looks like a computer with a DE. Does that not count as embedded system?

[tender river]

it depends

[opaque wharf]

And man, reading up about terminals sure is something

[tender river]

if you make an esp32 computer its arguably not embedded since its not a small computer used for controlling the actual hardware but the entire thing

a phone is not embedded but many phones have serial access

[opaque wharf]

Fair point

[rigid snow]

embedded means embedded into a larger system

as far as i understand it

a standalone device is a standalone device it’s not embedded

[opaque wharf]

But does that mean a PLC is not an embedded system? Its whole purpose is controlling the hardware

[worldly plank]

It can be a smaller system as well, I think?

Or a system of equal size

[opaque wharf]

Or MCU that controls light via a switch. It is standalone to function

[tender river]

if its used to control something that means its not standalone...

[rough bloom]

I wouldn't call both of these examples standalone
they're installed into a larger circuit

[opaque wharf]

Hmmm, I see

[rigid snow]

it’s part of the larger system of electric circuitry of your house

[opaque wharf]

So then, the interaction with said ESP32 computer doesn't count as embedded because? The ESP32 control the screen from a switch (keyboard)

[rigid snow]

and a plc is embedded into the device, the device itself is standalone

[rigid snow]

because it’s a standalone device and its purpose isn’t controlling a system

or interacting with

[opaque wharf]

Man, this is not a good time to think about it. I think I should sleep lol. Good night all

[rough bloom]

I do think the definition is a bit fuzzy
if you put an esp32 into a complete device with built-in peripherals and everything then I'd count it as embedded
if you expect users to plug their own stuff into it directly, using it as-is, then it's probably not

[rigid snow]

are we classifying the end product (the device) or the esp

[rough bloom]

-# esp32 referring to some prebuilt PCB here, I hope nobody is plugging stuff directly into the microprocessor

[rough bloom]

the esp

[rigid snow]

then this argument is stupid and an esp is always embedded, a microcontroller isn’t the end product

[rough bloom]

basically that, yeah

[noble zodiac]

anything is embedded when you set your mind to it 🙂

[hoary lion]

gpu is interesting

should learn hardare stuff

[opaque sigil]

[faint sandal]

when you're too poor and spends all day at a computer

[tender river]

i know some people i would like to put in there

[faint sandal]

https://www.thanko.jp/view/item/000000004647

apparently that's a real recently sold product

not the AC itself but the tent.... thing

[tender river]

put my forgejo instance under anubis because bots kept hammering it fetching random diffs one by one which is super expensive

tomorrow i'll see how much difference it made for server temps and cpu usage

[rough bloom]

Techaro software mentioned

[tender river]

i think synapse and akkoma are now the most resource heavy apps on my server and fair enough cant do much about that

[faint sandal]

https://www.aim.security/lp/aim-labs-echoleak-blogpost

microsoft marked this as CVSS 9.3

[rough bloom]

yeah, Anubis is awesome like that
one of those random projects that blew up way beyond what was expected (absolutely deserved in this case)

zero-click attack chain on an AI agent
complete compromise of Copilot data integrity

the vulnerability is mostly just that Copilot can read the email and follows instructions in it because of that

[sick owl]

So wild speculation with no basis

Bitnet

[opaque wharf]

I'm back

Can't sleep

This data processing haunt me

[stuck pasture]

AGI? 😭

[sick owl]

Probably not

[stuck pasture]

:(

[rigid snow]

maybe multimodal like the gemma one

not necessarily matformer

i’m just talking multimodality

[sick owl]

I doubt that'd warrant being called something quite amazing

[stuck pasture]

They are talking about open-weights model, so it’s probably not something greater than ever before

[sick owl]

Maybe quality voice output would though

[stuck pasture]

But probably good for its size or something

[rigid snow]

ye that’s what i was thinking

[stuck pasture]

Ig we’ll leave that for Neuro

[tender river]

openai is proud to announce a new local model
it can do a variety of tasks such as:

• format openai api json requests
• query openai servers to get answers to the user's prompt

[rigid snow]

it very well could be better than ever for its size in the open weights category considering what resources openai has

[stuck pasture]

Yeah, that’s what I mean

Like, not the greatest ever in every category

But for an open weights models

[nocturne olive]

LLMs are not gonna do AGI
The architecture is fundementally not capable of it

[stuck pasture]

That’s a bold statement

Why?

[opaque wharf]

I want to say we should start by defining what AGI should be able to do first

[noble zodiac]

it's not really bold, its math

[tender river]

its not bold at all

[stuck pasture]

We wouldn’t have thought before that LLMs could do what they can do now

[stuck pasture]

That’s true

[stuck pasture]

I’m guessing no one knows why, it’s just not

[nocturne olive]

Or everyone's busy with the karaoke stream

[noble zodiac]

This discussion happens like every third day

[stuck pasture]

True, I forgot about it

[tender river]

the burden of proof is on you

if i say agi is not possible with markov chains and you say it is you have to back it up

[sage crag]

it helps if both people justify their argument though, otherwise it just becomes a slinging match

[tender river]

wdym arguments where neither party understands anything about the topic at hand are the most entertaining

[sage crag]

[cosmic sphinx]

gemini classic

[stuck pasture]

I’m not saying it is, i have no idea. Y’all are saying it’s impossible, I’m wondering why

It’s not that I’m arguing with you, I’m genuinely curious

[jovial remnant]

Transformer based models do generalize beyond their data and can operate machines effectively. So with proper base, toolset and functioning environment, I don't see why a model couldn't meet 'AGI' requirements that aren't unreasonable.

[tender river]

accidentally ghosted someone for half a year i really need to set up proper email notifications

for 8 months actually

this is NOT okay

[rigid snow]

they don't deserve your response if they haven't followed up for that long

[tender river]

they HAVE

2 times

[rigid snow]

idk just check your email

i don't have email notifications

haven't missed anything

[tender river]

i do check it i think im juts blind

[tender river]

okay how about this

if they didnt track me down irl and call me (i wouldnt take the call)followed by an sms (i wouldnt read it) followed by visiting me (i wouldnt open the door) followed by climbing to my window are they really trying

[hoary lion]

please dox me speedrun...?

[tender river]

its honestly super easy to dox me

[hoary lion]

doxxing is easy, getting there is extremely hard

tbh that applies to almost everyone that uses linkedin

[safe path]

you are not actually a leaf

[tender river]

that is in fact true

i am an asuka

[safe path]

i see, i didn't know that

[uneven pulsar]

java is fun 🔫

i been learning the halt condition with java and trying to test out inputs

[dry charm]

this PR will be fun

this is a single commit

[sour lotus]

Pushing Live2d into a Chrome Extension overlay is funnnnnnnnnn 🫠
But also, actually fun, but annoying, but fun...but I want to punch rocks and flip tables right now lol

[haughty basin]

I've dropped a post about world models on r/NeuroSama, if you're interested. It's about recording gameplay + inputs, and if we have enough data (1000+ hours) we can try building a world model for vidya games

I know there are existing datasets e.g. StarCraft / older Atari games / OpenDota / YASP but it would be nice to have more variety

[trim valve]

I sadly don't record them but TF2 has demos which could probably work

[rigid snow]

i think first-person/third-person/rts are too different from each other, see i didn't even think of starcraft and dota when i first read the message

[trim valve]

but also TF2 is not exactly a good game for an ai to play

[haughty basin]

Yes that's the idea, even though games are different, the inputs stay the same (mouse+keyboard/gamepad)

[rigid snow]

if we thinking multiplayer source games (they all have demos) then cs is

[dry charm]

I do not think the inputs are same

There are big differences how inputs are done, how frequent and why

[rigid snow]

for rts and 1st/3rd person very different yes, that's my point

[dry charm]

even FPS games

you have vastly different inputs between CS and TF2

[sour lotus]

Mario,Elevator man,Circus,Contra,Metal Slug? Or am I missing the mark here

[rigid snow]

ehh not really

[dry charm]

People do not fly in CS2
People do not charge or build sentries in CS2
People do not scope in TF2
People do not plant a bomb in TF2

you might be using the same keybinds, but the reason is very different

[sour lotus]

The door problem 🤔

nah worng one

[rigid snow]

you said inputs

[rigid snow]

door stuck? cs? neuro minecraft?

[rigid snow]

oh i'm stupid

i get it'

[dry charm]

I mean CS2 has buy menu (B) and TF2 has the animation keybind

[rigid snow]

as in NN inputs

[dry charm]

also in TF2 itself, for example the 1,2,3 buttons are not the same for each class

[haughty basin]

So the way to approach it, there is a rule set for every game, as well as controls. When you play a game you don't automatically know that you can do rocket jumps in TF2 or there's a button for emotes, correct? So by watching the game and eventually pressing a button / doing something you then discover you can do this or that. But really what we can do is design a cheatsheet for every game that we can also feed to AI, so it would not attempt to press key combinations that doesn't make sense.

[rigid snow]

i thought the post is about spatial awareness not about what weapon to select, that could be handled by the llm?

oh it's not

[haughty basin]

And apparently with enough data model can figure out ruleset on it's own. We already have examples of this with Minecraft VPT

[sour lotus]

I hav a questin?
Why not a self learning (Goal) + Input learning for this? Hybrid or is it better to go pure 10k hours input for learning?

Ah you just answered my question haha

[rigid snow]

you'll have to train the model real-time because the games run at real-time

that won't take 10k hours, more like 10 million

so yes a dataset is better

[rigid snow]

how does the input get encoded there

i mean the visual

[haughty basin]

so it's supposed to be just a video + sound + inputs

and yes after getting the first version of the model the next is RL with real-world data I guess, to continue getting better

[rigid snow]

or i guess the more correct thing to say would be: you can speed up the simulation speed, but games are resource-intensive you'll get bottlenecked by cpu/gpu at 5-10x speed

[haughty basin]

Yeah but compute is relatively cheap, unless you're trying to train on cyberpunk 2077 raytraced

[rigid snow]

i mean how is the video encoded to be a NN input, is it raw pixel data, is there a tokenizer, whatever

[rigid snow]

reminding you that most games are single-threaded

[haughty basin]

tokenizer can be taken from https://github.com/facebookresearch/vjepa2

self-supervised learning from video is already a lot, if we add inputs to it it's even more useful

in theory we don't even need inputs, as the model builds understanding of what is happening on the screen

but then we need another layer that would be able to play the game and generate inputs

[rigid snow]

but, if say one chooses to very ethically source the data, from, say, CS2 demos, then there already is kb/mouse input data

[stark needle]

entropy

i hate entropy

[haughty basin]

I guess you can already make something with CS2 demo data but the point is to build model that can reason across multiple game genres, not just FPS

transfer skills

[rigid snow]

i think fps is a good base

for at least 1st/3rd person

rts is a whole other beast

[haughty basin]

RTS have been already conquered by OpenAI, back in 2019, kind of. Dota 2 technically is RTS but with fewer units and no buildings

[rigid snow]

also cs2 is interesting in that regard because there are multiple companies that possess basically infinite demos

leetify, faceit (esl), valve themselves, whoever runs csstats, etc.

[haughty basin]

That's certainly a possibility

[rigid snow]

i mean the rts top-down view and control style so it counts yes, but you want the model to be good at all genres, i'm saying that 1st/3rd person inputs are very different from rts inputs. oh there are also platformers, blah blah

[haughty basin]

Yeah exactly, different inputs, different visuals. One model. That's how they train robots today

Games aren't that much different in a sense that they use "common gaming sense"

E.g. you can crouch and jump in most FPS

[rigid snow]

ah almost forgot valve actually trains a NN on csgo/cs2 demos to detect cheaters

it's... not good

it detects "rage hacking" sometimes and that's it i guess

[stark needle]

[rigid snow]

entrp

[stark needle]

wait im dumb the labels should be the other way around

[sour lotus]

Fixed labels

[rigid snow]

i meant visual inputs btw

[stark needle]

but this shows basically

exp entropy across 600k images

[tender river]

i wrote a very long email but lost it i have to retype it now

why is software so jank

oh well now that i wrote it once surely it will be easy enough to write it for the second time and it might even end up more structured... but for now i'm going to sleep fuck this

[haughty basin]

For this exact reason I installed a plugin in Chrome that saves all of your text inputs you typed in.
Previously what I've been doing is once my message becomes more than 100 characters, I open a file on disk and save it, and continue writing there, then copy-paste to browser.

[opaque wharf]

...copilot

Oh sorry, recall

[tender river]

i didnt write it in browser i just asked my mail client to send it but then reconsidered and made the send email command return 1 but the mail client in all its jankness said that the mail was sent successfully

[opaque wharf]

MS loves to name things copilot that I forgot that one feature is named differently lol

I wonder what it takes to get recall functionality in Linux now

[haughty basin]

screen capture + keylogger?

or you actually wanna save state to be able to go back

then you need to make RAM snapshots pretty much

[tender river]

screen capture + keylogger is super easy just setup a cron job to do a screenshot and use evdev for keylogging

[haughty basin]

the problem is how would you unwrap this memory snapshot if things changed over time (e.g. network state)

[tender river]

i dont think recall can do that either

[haughty basin]

well if specific app can support it, possible

you store state for that app on disk

then you just load it

over time it would take terabytes of space 🤣

tape is cheap though

[rigid snow]

Microsoft Windows Recall External Magnetic Tape Storage (50TB) - $899.99

[opaque wharf]

This is the most hardcore recall ever lol

[rigid snow]

isn't this what mac os time machine did

or was it files only

[opaque wharf]

That is for storage no?

[rigid snow]

oh i see it's way more basic than i remember

just fs snapshots yeah

what was that flashy ui even about then

[rigid snow]

literally just the file explorer

[rigid snow]

half a second with ffmpeg. what

i must've been doing something VERY wrong then

[opaque sigil]

[sour lotus]

must sleep...but so close to solving 5 day stupid problem....

00:25 am, howsit over there in your part of the world?

[swift storm]

Keylogger would get you screened lmao

Would it not

[gritty dust]

hows everyones day been

so close... Im almost donee

[primal siren]

My xtts trainer filter out every one of my wav except for 010.
i thought it was just the only good one but then when i removed it and name 011 -> 010 it accepted the new 010 -_-

So i gave the 011 cvs text to 010 (the real one) and it still accept 010.
so it isnt the sentence nor the sound. wtf is happening

debug_loading_failures = True,
doesnt give me anything!

[stark needle]

chat hypothetically

How would I efficiently stream video at low fps but at extremely low latency

[cloud relic]

"is it gay"

[stark needle]

?

[cloud relic]

Nothing, my bad

[sour harness]

{"tool_name": "memory_add_short_term", "parameters": {"memory": "Sui thinks I need more functionality. As if *I* am lacking anything."}}``` Uhhh, I might be raising a problem child here

(but hey, she got the tool calls right)

[primal siren]

eval_split_size=29

i had to MANUALLY TELL HIM to take 29 files... dumb program humpf

[gritty dust]

programming was really quiet today

[sour harness]

Could Google give us a Gemma 3.1 around 32b parameters with audio input modality please? Just tack on Phi4-multimodal and I'm good :/

[jagged turtle]

i wish i could program rn

[gritty dust]

why cant you?

[jagged turtle]

need to grind away at documentation

[gritty dust]

ahh

[jagged turtle]

almost done though

[wide flicker]

tbf we do be programming

[wide flicker]

1. This is hilarious
2. I'm still just learning about tool calling and this gives me idead for solving my own bot's memory inadequacies so thank you c:

[gritty dust]

IM DONE and it took me 10 years to comment my code (bc I originally forgot to comment it so it had none lol, and my teacher needs them)

idk if it works even lol

my testing equipment is at school so eh

[frozen igloo]

https://youtu.be/8JuWdXrCmWg?si=OTXcuXPldL9nYck5

Woa

[primal siren]

| > grad_norm: 0 (0) ;-;

[tiny mango]

Hello!! New to the Neuro space but not new to programming, mainly specialized in cloud and embedded professionally

Wanted to add some new projects to the summer roster and think the vtuber space is fun, any direction/word on where to go if I want to do something small to learn tools used in the space?

[tight tinsel]

good morning programming

[gritty dust]

morning

[primal siren]

morning whats that?

[prisma spoke]

Time is relative

[amber fractal]

morning doesn't exist

[primal siren]

| > grad_norm: 0 (0) is but a warning to be ignored 0.0
source. Trust me bro

[potent birch]

https://fixupx.com/SprayCactus/status/1932987715051483277?t=m74T1FPQLD7TzvrpJnvI2w&s=19

Breadabambaspis💜💜 💜 {Drawing Nothing} (@SprayCactus)

I'm tempted to reformat my operating system while leaving my files intact, my first time doing it and I'm tempted to, I think my operating system is borked rn goddammit

Quoting Breadabambaspis💜💜 💜 {Drawing Nothing} (@SprayCactus)
︀
IT FUCKING GONE UP OH GOD

FixupX · Jun 12, 2025, 2:25 AM

But first I need to save my krita settings

[opaque wharf]

Use UDP over radiowave?

[knotty current]

that would be 144 p slideshow i think?

[opaque wharf]

Hey the latency is lower than using fiber across the world

[knotty current]

fr?

[opaque wharf]

Speed of light on fiber is slower by around 20-30% IIRC

In the atmosphere, it's basically near its speed in vacuum

[knotty current]

i mean thats true

but the data gon be lossy af

and with UDP basically half of the frames are gone

thats gonna be a big problem for a video

[opaque wharf]

That's for lower OSI level to think about. And UDP are quite reliable with the right protocol. QUIC is one that comes to mind

[knotty current]

but still i imagine the restansmission rates to be sky high compared to fibre optics

[opaque wharf]

How much overhead that's gonna cost will be determined by the protocol. And you can always make a new one if you so desire. For hardware processing, FPGA could be used for faster signal processing

[opaque wharf]

Yeah, but we also don't know the distance needed. For all we know it could be over a building

[knotty current]

it could be acceptable at that distance

but still think about it, radio waves are lossy af, thats why radio stations sound worse than average digital audio, and now amplify that to video, and OOF

[opaque wharf]

Radio is lossy only if there is no sophisticated signal processing. WiFi is one example

But yes, you could also do it the old broadcast television style

[knotty current]

oops i forgot wifi existed

been using ethernet for so long

[opaque wharf]

Or you could also just cut off the fiber cable and directly receive the laser if its within line of sight. That would result in lower latency too

[knotty current]

it would work, but i think the latency saved would be negligeable compared to just using a fibre optic cable for short distances

over long distances the laser wont even reach

[opaque wharf]

Yeah that's fair. Man this blackout in the middle of the days kills everyone in the workplace

[knotty current]

[olive sable]

guys, i have lost my embed perms...

[velvet crest]

You have unlocked new role

[olive sable]

this will do for now

oh wait i have them back already?

[amber fractal]

Classic

I know I was just grabbing popcorn (or in this case pizza)

[olive sable]

the time i left neurocord was actualy very productive

i managed to sleep 10 hours and i studied for my exams

i made a typo in the meme...

fuck

[opaque wharf]

I do have to say tho, this blackout also means I'm able to slack off on neuro discord lol

[olive sable]

blackout?

[opaque wharf]

Yes, as in, no electricity

[olive sable]

damn

unlucky

i owuld say we have solar but its 5am so...

the new house battery is getting installed soon at least

[fast pagoda]

extremely rude way to come back there robot

[opaque wharf]

Of course he isn't trying to be offensive. Look at his blushing face!

[fast pagoda]

yeah true he didnt mean it just slipped out

[opaque wharf]

He is flirting

But confused

[fast pagoda]

[knotty current]

damn even the capitalization of the name matches up to mine

[olive sable]

i like how myu vscode has absolutly no clue what language im actually trying to do here, cuz i also dont lmao

[fast pagoda]

yeah he's just you but in the cyborg future

[knotty current]

[opaque wharf]

Noice. If you're like me and juggle with language on a daily basis, I suggest turn off every extension by default and only enable on the workspace thats needed

[olive sable]

nah

imma jsut do my thing

[opaque wharf]

Fair

[fast pagoda]

he's comin

[knotty current]

PANIC

[fast pagoda]

the bwaa bomb has served to just piss him off

[knotty current]

wait u bwaa bombed ur own ai

[knotty current]

the ai's context window is too big

it survived the bwaa bomb

[olive sable]

welp, guess im going with
c++

[fast pagoda]

i think it's too small tbh

it's only at like

8k

[amber fractal]

I think too smol as well

[fast pagoda]

i mean it goes to 132k but i aint got the ram to do that

yup

4096 lole

[amber fractal]

I tried bwaa bombing a 1b model but 132k tokens is too much to bwaa bomb

[knotty current]

i mean it survived the bwaa bomb, its eiteher the bomb is too smol or the context window is too big, looks like da bomb is too smol then

[amber fractal]

I can't wait for this to be a standard test for LLMs

[fast pagoda]

bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa bwaa```

the message heard round the world

[knotty current]

imagine the official measurement for context windows is bwaas

[amber fractal]

We can make it our official measurement tho

[knotty current]

wait is there a car salesmen meme for this?

made it in 30 seconds

oops i made a mistake

`

[amber fractal]

I need an edit where there is just a lot of bwaas seen inside of it

[knotty current]

yet another low effort attempt

[olive sable]

[faint sandal]

[fast pagoda]

genius show idea

[olive sable]

setprecision sets the precision for the entire cout command?

C++ is interesting i guess

[opaque wharf]

Where do you get the tutorial from? I suggest you also do the reading for the docs

[olive sable]

some french site

http://www.lmpt.univ-tours.fr/~volkov/C++.pdf

its a uni so should be fine

[opaque wharf]

Yeah, that's fairly good resource. I skimmed a bit and I think they did mention that the manipulation is for that specific stream

So when you setprecision for a stream, yeah it does set it for the lifetime of said stream, which for cout is usually the same as your program

[olive sable]

i have no clue what all those includes mean so i just put in a bumch until it started working

imma leave it at this, i have exams today

[opaque wharf]

Well that was something...

[olive sable]

its pretty similair to glsl so this shoudl be quick to learn

[opaque wharf]

This is what I meant by C inside of C++ lol

[fast pagoda]

how could therapy be worse

[opaque wharf]

That implies the LLM has gone through shit

[fast pagoda]

he has

this data seems to be depression.csv

[olive sable]

Btw, are all the people that wanted to do the tetr.io thing down to do it this weekend?

[amber fractal]

there was a tetr.io event?

[tender river]

wdym "screened"

[opaque wharf]

So this is what it feels like to be bored at work huh

[grave dew]

i have a question for programmers and pc guys

it is necessary to have an antivirus or its windows defender enough

[opaque wharf]

Good enough

[stone flint]

For the most part windows defender is enough, especially if you're careful with what websites you go to and what you click/download

[opaque wharf]

What you should be careful about is running anything you download. Make sure you trust the source. That is the biggest attack vector in windows since installation of most software don't come from a central trusted source

[unkempt citrus]

Also use an ad blocker

[opaque wharf]

Getting used to install/run executable is the weakest link in windows defender security

[unkempt citrus]

And don't click dodgy links

[stone flint]

For sure, ad blocker is essential, ublock origin is prob the best option (or ublock lite or whatever it's called for chrome due to manifest v3)

[olive sable]

See poll

#programming message

[fast pagoda]

in additional to what everyone else said, many of the third party avs are actually WORSE than defender now

[grave dew]

thanks yall for the tips

[amber fractal]

McAfee for the #1 and #0 examples

[opaque wharf]

Reading the McAfee founder story feels like a fever dream

[burnt aurora]

My favourite av is ubuntu

Keeps out most of what normal people will find

[grave dew]

i had a virus that looked like mcafee av and it took me very long to realize

luckly i got rid of it before my pc fried or smth

[amber fractal]

I'm pretty sure you just installed McAfee

jokes aside, at least it is gone

[grave dew]

worse, i installed roblox

i think it was a fake page because im pretty sure it got infected because of that

[amber fractal]

[tight tinsel]

my favourite virus is Microsoft edge

[amber fractal]

The only virus that flags itself as a virus

[tight tinsel]

programming bwaa census

[burnt aurora]

[amber fractal]

:bwaadow:

yes I have a bwaa, no I'm not voting for it

[tight tinsel]

unfortunately for this data collection census corporate did not provide me funds for nitro

[amber fractal]

I'm not funded enough for nitro

[olive sable]

[amber fractal]

I was going to ping you, but you were offline

[olive sable]

Im at school so ye..

[amber fractal]

makes sense

[knotty current]

thats a lot of bwaas

[amber fractal]

We like our bwaas

[tight tinsel]

no cerberbwaa?

idk if that exists

[pastel nymph]

[tight tinsel]

other than this im not in any other vtuber discord

[hoary lion]

what is happening

[olive sable]

Bwaa

[ruby timber]

Bwaa

[hoary lion]

Bwaa

[olive sable]

Is cerbybwaa a subscriber emote?

[amber fractal]

Bwaa

[pastel nymph]

It is

[tight tinsel]

All bwaa talk should go here. This includes bwaa, bwaa, bwaa, bwaa, bwaa and so on.

[amber fractal]

Factual infomation

Hmm

[tight tinsel]

fact checked and confirmed by real bwaa's

[olive sable]

Mods we need the #programming description to include all forms of bwaa

[amber fractal]

Dang it I don't want to log into firefox for this bit

[stone flint]

Why do you need to log into firefox?

[amber fractal]

guess I'll have to

[olive sable]

?

[amber fractal]

Editing the channel description (real)

[tight tinsel]

was gonna do that but i was too lazy to log in again on my browser

god damn you discord its the same computer i dont need to check my email for the five hundreth time just to log in!!

[amber fractal]

I always just scanned

[tender river]

ojawojdoawjoajwojoifjio why are you doing this to me

one of my ssds died

[amber fractal]

o7 ssd

[tender river]

i think it died at east

[fast pagoda]

oof

how old was it

if relatively new i'dbe pissed

[olive sable]

[tender river]

idk maybe it wasnt the ssd dying but a bcachefs bug ill just fsck and hope its fine

[olive sable]

btw chayleaf now that you're here

[burnt aurora]

[jagged turtle]

why do containers suck so much

[olive sable]

cuz

[neat solar]

Bwaa

[knotty current]

Bwaa

[olive sable]

Bwaa

[tender river]

i think the biggest part is because they are untyped

[jagged turtle]

what

[tender river]

they dont specify "i want something mounted in /data and i want service X to be reachable on port Y" you are just supposed to know it

[opaque wharf]

It sucks when the people using it sucks

[jagged turtle]

true

[jagged turtle]

i just wish they were easier to set up that is all

the people that use it shouldn't directly correlate with the quality of the product ykwim

[opaque wharf]

No, the people that use it will correlate with the quality of the end result. Its true for any tools. We use container to streamline our embedded system build so we don't have to fight each dev OS (some are using windows)

[amber fractal]

(some should not be using containers on windows)

[opaque wharf]

At the end of the day, the higher up decides that with the prolonged blackout its better to just let adults go home lol

[opaque wharf]

This is also true. Its a PITA on its own

[olive sable]

is there any reason to do

int myNum;
myNum = 15;

instead of

int myNum = 15;

?

why not asign it immediatly?

[jagged turtle]

depends

are you checking if something is there first

[opaque wharf]

Not really. But it is handy for things that you don't know the value ahead of time like ptr

[uneven pulsar]

i cleaned my house

[amber fractal]

mainly to not declare twice out of habit as well as the others

[olive sable]

[opaque wharf]

Be warned that you can't assume the value before it is assigned

You may think "its 0" its not

[amber fractal]

it's garbage, like np.empty

[olive sable]

ye i know

[jagged turtle]

I would think of it as basically undefined

[opaque wharf]

I wouldn't say garbage. The program will just interpret whatever is there as the data type

[olive sable]

its just a pointe rto a location in memory that has garbage data left over

[opaque wharf]

You could get lucky and have the needed value already assigned lol

[amber fractal]

mfw I cast a float as a uint

[olive sable]

32 bit, so a 2³² chance of it being right?

or rather, 1/2³²

[opaque wharf]

Yeah, casting that way is used for fast inverse square root

[olive sable]

a what?

inverse square root?

[stark needle]

morning

[amber fractal]

One of these days I want to create a datatype similar to the one found in break_infinity.js

[opaque wharf]

Wait you guys didn't know? That was quite a famous algorithm

[olive sable]

morning

[noble zodiac]

int is only guaranteed to be at least 16 bits. Its actual size can be about anything, tho its usually 32 bit

[amber fractal]

I do know it

[olive sable]

is it not 4 bytes in C++?

[noble zodiac]

in most implementations yes, but its not guaranteed

[olive sable]

oh no apparnetly not

[opaque wharf]

In modern hardware, it is safe to assume so

[amber fractal]

as everything is 64bit

[olive sable]

i speedrunning this website

[opaque wharf]

If you need better docs, I suggest https://en.cppreference.com/

And this is the fast inverse square root

[olive sable]

its interesting to see the bools not using capitals for true and false

[amber fractal]

I learned the datatypes back before I did C#, I kinda died inside whenever a double was used for one decimal place.

[noble zodiac]

thats why when you see a malloc its usually malloc(x*sizeof(int)) instead of mallloc(x*4)

[opaque wharf]

python moment

[olive sable]

ye

[noble zodiac]

C++11 introduced fixed with int types like uint32_t to make it more explicit

[olive sable]

cursed, i hate it

[noble zodiac]

https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/types/integer.html

[opaque wharf]

Meanwhile you say data = "hello world" and then saying data = 0 is not cursed?

[olive sable]

it i

but thats just python

the entire language is cursed

[ruby timber]

I hate this too to be fair

[olive sable]

C++ was supposed to be a safe haeven for static typing

it was the chosen one

[ruby timber]

Hey

Again

You don't have to use it

(thank God)

[olive sable]

it should have brought peace to the typing, not destroyed it

[ruby timber]

If you had to use every c++ feature it would be a terrible time

[opaque wharf]

But also, it can save you some time when writing long ass class name

[opaque wharf]

Especially considering the backward compatibility baggage

[uneven pulsar]

cluade is the best llm over all?

[ruby timber]

Yeah-

[ruby timber]

That's true

[uneven pulsar]

i kinda find it stupid some people end there phrases whit this ~

[shadow sinew]

no~

[uneven pulsar]

what dose it even mean

[shadow sinew]

It's something taken from Japanese punctuation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_dash

[uneven pulsar]

ok it is used in some programing and code cases

[shadow sinew]

Well yeah, but in writing it's meant to indicate that you're supposed to lengthen the sound.

[faint sandal]

It's generally used to indicate casualness and more so an indicator of how the last word before it should sound (lengthened and sometimes "wavy")

It's pretty common in east asia

[uneven pulsar]

ah i see thank you

[shadow sinew]

Case in point:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTw1rHuPGmE

[safe path]

hey when this was introduced it was a godsend

me and my const auto&&

[opaque wharf]

What did you do with that?

Hmm now that I think about it, I should get some sleep while I can since I got home early lol. See ya later all

[noble zodiac]

I use it very sparingly but when I do its great

You really dont want to type out some iterator over an stl container nonsense

[faint sandal]

https://tenor.com/vZ3W4UmSv5M.gif

i don't think it's moving

[fast pagoda]

dislike

[faint sandal]

I've tried like 4 different times it just does not like what I'm asking it to do

[uneven pulsar]

yeah idk why physics engines like endorphin are dead like it looks soo useful to use for fps games

the ragdol simulation looks really good to create deaths and realistic for enemies

[nocturne olive]

Why not I guess
Seems silly

[olive sable]

[uneven pulsar]

man i wish endorphin is alive

not a dead physics engine

[opaque wharf]

I am baaack

[uneven pulsar]

anyone heard of endorphin?

[uneven pulsar]

[opaque wharf]

Oh, yes I forgot about the

for (auto a : container)
{
  ...
}

[trim valve]

sure

[olive sable]

In spreading the good word of C++

[uneven pulsar]

java hold my beer

[jagged turtle]

should I bother minifying this

[olive sable]

No thanks

Java bad

[rigid snow]

if you call the physics engine euphoria which is what it’s called and mostly known under then i’m sure many people here have (endorphin being the associated animation software)

had to google, had no idea what endorphin was but well aware of euphoria

[uneven pulsar]

yeah

[dry charm]

For production you can use a rollup lib, which does it automatically for you

[uneven pulsar]

it used to be a great engine

it was used to make gta physics

[jagged turtle]

this is a statically served js file because goddamn they need more flexibility with astro starlight

[rigid snow]

is that for docs

[dry charm]

unless they explicitly require non minified JS, you can just do an esbuild

[jagged turtle]

quite possibly

[dry charm]

Wait, is that first party JS file or is that a library file

[jagged turtle]

first party

if i'm understanding you correctly

[dry charm]

first party, as in written by you / people on the project

[jagged turtle]

yes

[dry charm]

sometimes I use weird wording sorry

imo for prod you could look into esbuild

[jagged turtle]

I could but that's a bit overkill for one file that doesn't even need to import anything else

it probs would make more sense once I get esbuild working for something related

[dry charm]

You could mark it as backlog and then when esbuild needed then that backlog can be brought forward as an adjacent impl that is needed

[jagged turtle]

sure ig

[uneven pulsar]

to be honest engine should have fueatures like it its really amazing to use for physics based animations

idk about unity if it dose use this feature or no?

[jagged turtle]

wtf is this error

that's new

oh wait

it's probs because something non-existent is locking it from deletion again

[rigid snow]

also that’s not how you do that, iirc astro even has an example of this in some of the templates https://web.dev/articles/building/an-adaptive-favicon

like the github favicon, that changes color depending on the theme

[warped narwhal]

you seem to be missing the comments on this code that explains what it does

[rigid snow]

// what the fuck?

[sour harness]

There are very good youtube videos on why that hack works

[jagged turtle]

// how does this fucking work

[rigid snow]

we're referencing this

float Q_rsqrt( float number )
{
    long i;
    float x2, y;
    const float threehalfs = 1.5F;

    x2 = number * 0.5F;
    y  = number;
    i  = * ( long * ) &y;    // evil floating point bit level hacking
    i  = 0x5f3759df - ( i >> 1 );               // what the fuck? 
    y  = * ( float * ) &i;
    y  = y * ( threehalfs - ( x2 * y * y ) );   // 1st iteration
//  y  = y * ( threehalfs - ( x2 * y * y ) );   // 2nd iteration,
                                              // this can be removed

    return y;
}

which is the fast inverse square root function

[jagged turtle]

also to get that working into one file (which seems to be what is being done in the video) with the [neuro|evil]pilot icons is a bit- uh, too out of my field

I'll try it anyways because having an extra js script just to do this doesn't sit right with me

[rigid snow]

two icons, each one is adaptive

you just embed css into the svg that will change the fill depending on the theme

ez

[jagged turtle]

we're flicking between the icons (neuropilot for light, evilpilot for dark)

[rigid snow]

oh, interesting

[jagged turtle]

we do the same for the homepage but there it's actually easier because they give you a way to do that without needing to do the script idea

[rigid snow]

then do them as one svg but two groups maybe

also that’s changing depending on the browser theme, so you don’t have a white icon on light background

not on the website theme

[jagged turtle]

yeah that part is easier probs

although im not sure myself how to detect browser theme so I'm probs just gonna go the prefers-dark-scheme anyways

[rigid snow]

that’s it

[opaque wharf]

What is your target platform?

[opaque wharf]

Let them try to make sense of what it does lol

[jagged turtle]

wait then how would I change the displayed SVG using css then

[rigid snow]

opacity or transparent fill maybe

or do you mean from inside the webpage

like if the user set dark mode but browser prefers-dark-scheme is false you want light evil?

[jagged turtle]

uh what

[gritty dust]

good morning

[jagged turtle]

both twinpilot icons are light with black outlines in the middle resembling the twins' heads

[rigid snow]

oh

[jagged turtle]

so I really just need to swap out the outlines (could probs do with like a hidden property or smth)

[jagged turtle]

i'll be honest I thought the evilpilot icon was gonna dark with light outlines

but it more resembles copilot this way so fair enough

[opaque wharf]

If you want to listen on theme change do it using matchMedia

if (window.matchMedia) {
  // Check if the dark-mode Media-Query matches
  if(window.matchMedia('(prefers-color-scheme: dark)').matches){
    // Dark
  } else {
    // Light
  }

window.matchMedia('(prefers-color-scheme: dark)').addEventListener('change', cb)
} else {
  // Default (when Media-Queries are not supported)
}

[rigid snow]

don’t, why

[jagged turtle]

you can inline javascript into svgs?

surely not

[rigid snow]

it’s gonna change itself

[opaque wharf]

Uhh, then what is that black magic MutationObserver doing?

[rigid snow]

if css

i’m going to be honest i still don’t understand what the end result should be

[opaque wharf]

He wanted dynamic favicon on theme change

[rigid snow]

i get that

[jagged turtle]

let me quickly record then

[rigid snow]

because there is a distinction between what color scheme browser wants and what color scheme the website uses

[opaque wharf]

I do that by using css inside the favicon svg for simple color. For different svg altogether, see this https://css-tricks.com/how-to-create-a-favicon-that-changes-automatically/

[opaque wharf]

Yeah, this is also why I said prefer the media query rather than mutationobserver

[jagged turtle]

(spoilered because flashing lights warning)

something like this but for browser theme instead of site theme ofc

[opaque wharf]

Then do local preference using local storage

[jagged turtle]

look at the icon

[rigid snow]

then i propose this, one svg, two groups inside, depending on what browser prefers hide one and show another

[jagged turtle]

yeah I was thinking that

perhaps make it so that they both have a class/ID that gets changed by some inlined CSS?

[opaque wharf]

I don't recommend having dynamic behaviour inside of svg file but oh well

[jagged turtle]

why not

[opaque wharf]

Just my 2 cent because when editor need to edit said svg, some software might not support it

[jagged turtle]

these icons are basically set

i'm like 90% sure they won't be changing until at least next year if the twins get a wildly different model

[opaque wharf]

That's why this is just my 2 cent. I usually work in team and not alone so having other do the illustration, I don't really want to mess with the svg

[jagged turtle]

i'm not working alone either

well, ig I am for the docs section

eh it's fine I can redo the process if a new icon comes out

[opaque wharf]

Yeah, fair. But I still suggest you use window.matchMedia rather than MutationObserver to listen for theme change. And then save user preference if any to local storage

[tender river]

I must not think. Thought is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my thought. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past, I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the thought has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

[sour harness]

Experimental Neuro would be proud

[opaque wharf]

Also brother, this is 2025, please don't use var. Use let

[jagged turtle]

user preference depends on their computer's preference (dark/light mode)

no local storage needed

[opaque wharf]

Hence why I suggest using window.matchMedia

[jagged turtle]

that requires javascript to be placed and served statically

I had to put "placed" there because yes there is more js being served statically but this one is "unnecessarily" placed in a way that would do that

[opaque wharf]

...is it not?

[jagged turtle]

point is i don't want the javascript to be there if possible

[opaque wharf]

I guess you do SSR?

[jagged turtle]

github pages doesn't let you do that

[opaque wharf]

Well, I don't understand why you don't want a JS to be there so in that case I have no input to suggest

[tender river]

[jagged turtle]

because I don't like having a separate javascript file having to be placed in my public assets folder essentially

[tender river]

i'd send you the css/js from my server i use for theming but the server is down because of filesystem issues

[jagged turtle]

1. n o j s
2. what happened lmfao

[tender river]

actually here https://web.archive.org/web/20250512084735/https://www.pavluk.org/style.css
https://web.archive.org/web/20250512084735/https://www.pavluk.org/main.js

[tender river]

it doesnt use js except for when the user wants to manually override the theme

[noble zodiac]

what the heck is going on in here

[jagged turtle]

oh

[jagged turtle]

me asking if I should minify a simple js script started a very long conversation on how to dynamically change the favicon

[noble zodiac]

with css

🙂

[opaque wharf]

I have not delved into latest CSS spec, is that actually possible?

[tender river]

it is

@media (prefers-color-scheme: dark) {

[noble zodiac]

yes

[opaque wharf]

And to change the icon itself?

[jagged turtle]

(in svg)

[noble zodiac]

add css within the svg and change whatever is in there

[opaque wharf]

So you basically serve 2 SVG in one file?

[tender river]

i love computers

[jagged turtle]

you probs can inside a singular svg file if you multilayer them and hide/show the relevant one using the aforementioned @media stuff

now that I think about it

[noble zodiac]

<svg width="100" height="100" viewBox="0 0 100 100" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg">
  <style>
    .light {
      display: block;
    }
    .dark {
      display: none;
    }

    @media (prefers-color-scheme: dark) {
      .light {
        display: none;
      }
      .dark {
        display: block;
      }
    }
  </style>

  <!-- Red circle for light mode -->
  <circle class="light" cx="50" cy="50" r="40" fill="red" />

  <!-- Blue circle for dark mode -->
  <circle class="dark" cx="50" cy="50" r="40" fill="blue" />
</svg>

[tender river]

computers are so cool if you dont think about them too hard

[opaque wharf]

Yeah that could work for simple case

[jagged turtle]

I put the two I need in separate groups with ID so I think this should be good

[noble zodiac]

yep, works with any kind of element

[jagged turtle]

should hopefully work but idk i suck sometimes

alright time to test this thing

f-

wait that's expected right

[opaque wharf]

Yep

As I said, some software shat itself due to dynamic nature of it

So your mileage may vary

[noble zodiac]

its just an invalid svg file

[jagged turtle]

oh I know why

I forgot to close the style

[opaque wharf]

You forgot to close the style

[noble zodiac]

that would do it

[olive sable]

First exam went well
Now i have 8 left

[gritty dust]

Yay,

Wait 8???

huhhh

[opaque wharf]

Mid-terms or final maybe

So every subject has their own exam

[gritty dust]

still makes no sense to me haha

for me first semester we have 4 at the end, then second semester we have 4 att the end, and there is no such thing as a midterm exam

[opaque wharf]

I thought it was normal to have more than 6 subject in a semester?

My god

[gritty dust]

no... We have 4 a semester

[opaque wharf]

But that also maybe just because I go to vocational education

So even if the subject itself is 4, there is still 8 because each will have theory and practice class

[opaque sigil]

That's crazy

[opaque wharf]

That's how it is here

[opaque sigil]

My condolences

[tender river]

??? it isnt?

[opaque wharf]

What the fuck did out ministry of higher education was cooking then

[gritty dust]

... Unless you're in middle school or elementary school lol

here at least

[tender river]

no i have the same question as you

[opaque wharf]

I don't know anymore man, I've passed all of that shit and left the past behind

[gritty dust]

[opaque wharf]

So in my country, the minimum required class for a degree is 144

Spread across 8 semester on standard term

[olive sable]

Wdym 8?

[opaque wharf]

So at least 18 class per semester. One class is not one subject

But one subject is usually 2 class worth or 1

[olive sable]

It is?

Is it not???

[opaque wharf]

For some special subject, they can be worth more than 2. But the standard theory/practice class always worth 1 or 2

[gritty dust]

It's not here lol it's Infact not allowed here to do more than 4 a semester in highschool here

[opaque wharf]

BRUH

Highschool is even worse here

[olive sable]

We have math, math part 2, math part 3, physics, chemistry, history, geography, theology, biology.

And some schools even have exams for dutch, french and english

[gritty dust]

I'm doing physics, religion, history, computer technology

Those 4 lol

[olive sable]

Theology = religion

[gritty dust]

And I only have exams for physics and history, religion doesn't have one same with comp tech

Lolll

I got 2 exams this semester

[olive sable]

Where do you live bro?

[gritty dust]

Canada

[olive sable]

Damn

[gritty dust]

why

[olive sable]

Remind me to never go there

[gritty dust]

Wait Whyy

wtfff

rude smh

[olive sable]

I have a bad feeling about a country where the max amount of exams is 4

Do you even learn anything there?

[gritty dust]

4 a semester 8 total for a year

[gritty dust]

Where do you think I learned all my programming and stuff lol

[gritty dust]

Also we're doing electron orbitals in physics rn and stuff

[olive sable]

I mean ye, but 8 in a year?

We're lucky if we only get 8 in a semester

They're planning on increasing the amount of exams

Thats a good thing btw

[tight tinsel]

i got english, math, science (physics/chem together), second language (chinese), literature, humanities (geography/social studies)

so 6

[gritty dust]

...

[gritty dust]

no

[tight tinsel]

but you can go up to 9(?)

[gritty dust]

Just no

[tight tinsel]

i should have taken more

though maybe not literature

any junior that asks me i just say to never touch literature

[gritty dust]

Exams bring a lot of stress so more is bad you know

[olive sable]

It is

More exams means failing 1 matters less

[tight tinsel]

yeah but like more subjects i take = easier to get into higher education

yep

[olive sable]

That too yes

[opaque sigil]

What

[tight tinsel]

you need a minimum amount of subjects passed to go into higher ed schools

so 5 is the bare minimum

[gritty dust]

If you get a low enough grade to fail or almost fail, here you aren't going to university...

[olive sable]

Then dont fail

[opaque wharf]

The system in our country didn't allow any fail subject for highschool to get to higher ed

[gritty dust]

You need about 80 average minimum for most

[gritty dust]

Same

[olive sable]

Doable ngl

[opaque wharf]

At least you have 4 subject per semester. I got like what, 16 per year?

[opaque sigil]

Actually I don't remember how it worked in high school here, but it definitely wasn't as strict for sure thankfully

[olive sable]

If you make a good summary you should already be getting half your grade

[tight tinsel]

if only it was this easy for me

[gritty dust]

Lol I mean I don't know why you guys have so many math ones, we just have math, then functions, advanced functions, then calculus

[opaque wharf]

My country is effed up yo

[tight tinsel]

at this rate im going into the exam praying for literature

[tender river]

thats not really advanced stuff

[olive sable]

This was my summary for the exam i had an hour ago

[gritty dust]

I'm in grade 10 bro

[olive sable]

Even in grade 10 that was ez

[tender river]

we had electron orbitals in like 7th or 8th grade

bro

[gritty dust]

Man functions and stuff is hard

[gritty dust]

We talking about electron clouds mb

[olive sable]

I guess they're not used to working much there with 4 exams per semester?

[gritty dust]

and how they are made

[olive sable]

Elektrons

[opaque wharf]

For highschool, we have the same subject throughout 4 years. But each year the subject gets more advanced. So math in 1st year is different from math in 2nd year even if the subject name still math

[olive sable]

Ez

Yes

Same

But the full 6 years here

[opaque wharf]

NO WAIT

highschool is 3 years

vocational highschool can be 4, but also usually 3

[gritty dust]

It's 4 years

[opaque wharf]

4 if you want to graduate with a degree

[olive sable]

Besides science. Science starts as 1 subject in the first 2 years and splits into 4 in the 3rd year

[opaque wharf]

3 here

[olive sable]

Oh you mean college?

[opaque wharf]

Bro, wtf is wrong with my country

[gritty dust]

Science is science for the first 2, then in 11 and 12 you get physics, chemistry, etc

[olive sable]

The english terms confuse me compared to the dutch terms

I have no clue what 11 and 12 is supposed to mean

[gritty dust]

we're now learning about the the S orbitals, P, D, F and how funny wave interactions make them

[gritty dust]

(grade 9 is the first year of highschool

10 is the second, 11 is the third, 12 is the final year of highschool

[opaque wharf]

10 is the first here

7,8,9 are called junior highschool

[gritty dust]

6, 7, 8 is middle school and anything before is elementary school

For meh

[opaque wharf]

1-6 is called elementary here

So 1-6 elementary. 7-9 junior high (maybe this is the equivalent of middle school), 10-12 highschool

Also, the ministry that handles education is 2 distinct one. Higher ed has its own minister so the curriculum could clash

[gritty dust]

I gtg do RSTs now sadge

[midnight sigil]

time to translate 453 lines of code into blender compositor nodes

[gritty dust]

Oohhh have fun

[trim valve]

firefox please stop stealing my focus to give me ads

I want to open a new tab and google something not ask a chatbot

[opaque wharf]

Do it the programmer mindset way. Spends more time automating it using a script than what could've taken you less hour to do it manually

[rigid snow]

“subscribe for a product for $10/mo? haha no way i can just build it myself! i’ll just spend 1000h of my time building a shittier version of said product”

[olive sable]

But like, hischool is before college right?

[tender river]

librewolf

[gritty dust]

Yeah

Why

[olive sable]

your numbered system is just weird

[gritty dust]

Lol

[opaque wharf]

What?

Is my country cooked again?

[olive sable]

we have 1 year for toddlers, 3 years kindergarten, 6 years elementary, 6 years highschool, and 3 years college/uni

[opaque wharf]

Oh, that. We just called the class from first year elementary as 1st grader

All the way to 12th grader

[gritty dust]

2 years toddlers, 5 years elementary, 3 years middle school, 4 years highschool, then for university it's 4 years minimum and for advanced degrees it's more

so I'll be 17 when I graduate highschool I think

[olive sable]

we restart at highschool.
1ste - 6de leerjaar
1ste - 6de middelbaar

[opaque wharf]

Before elementary, it's technically not called "education" here, is optional and more like play group

[olive sable]

its also optional here, but most attend

[gritty dust]

It's required before elementary here, you start school at 3 years old, and then 2 years of that is required if you want to go to grade 1

so you enter elementary at 5 years old basically

[olive sable]

ye but how old are you by then? cuz it seems like your elementary is way shorter

you skipped over kindergarten

[gritty dust]

(toddlers is kindergarten I guess but it's not called that really here or sm

[gritty dust]

I'm 15

I'll graduate in 2 years

[olive sable]

ye not you, i mean when you start at toddlers thing

[gritty dust]

We start at 3 years old

[trim valve]

meh true but I use the firefox tab sync thingy enough that I don't wanna switch off it

[olive sable]

hmmm

later than us

[gritty dust]

Huhhh, after the 2 years it's elementary school then yeah

[olive sable]

we start elementary at age 6

[gritty dust]

We start at 5

(some at 6

(I was 5 tho

[olive sable]

or like, 5-6. you start the year you tun 6

[gritty dust]

I turn six yeah in the year

[opaque wharf]

I was thinking aren't they stopped supporting that and apparently I was thinking about Pocket

[olive sable]

anyways, programming huh

[gritty dust]

Kekw

Oh well I guess today is trying to get that crappy vision robot arm stupid thing to work

(it's not outputting the right serial data so it's being annoying

[olive sable]

the C++ ? operator is kinda weird, but interesting

[sour harness]

Don't got there, for the sake of everyone's sanity

[olive sable]

im dont think ill use it that much, but it beats uding an if statement or a weird function

[opaque wharf]

Ternary?

[olive sable]

ye

[opaque wharf]

Oh

[rough bloom]

I was questioning wtf the ? operator was for a second because I'm used to it in the context of Rust, but it's just the ternary

[olive sable]

condition ? result1 : result2

[rough bloom]

Python has the same thing

[opaque wharf]

More verbose

[rough bloom]

just with slightly different syntax

[olive sable]

wdym?

isnt that just if else?

[rough bloom]

(value) if (condition) else (value)

[olive sable]

so ye if else i guess

[rough bloom]

yeah, but as an expression

the statement and the expression are different

[olive sable]

the compiler doesnt treat it as an if statement?

[rough bloom]

an if statement does not return a value afaik

also the syntax is completely different

it just uses the same words

[olive sable]

ok

ive always just seen it as an if lse before

[quick flame]

has anyone here done a security assessment of a model ?

[rough bloom]

in good languages (like Rust) it actually is an if-statement
since they can actually have return values, so a separate ternary expression thing isn't needed

[olive sable]

i dont get the point of the comma operator tho. why do it like this???

[opaque wharf]

Don't think too much about it. Just know that when you need it, its there

If you don't, then you'll never encounter it

Much like auto

[rough bloom]

never seen that in C++ before I think
looks fucked up though

[olive sable]

why not just do int a = 5?
i dont see the need to make another variable (for which they didnt specify the type?) and then add shit to it

[opaque sigil]

#define at(arr, i) (assert(i < arr.size), arr[i])

[opaque wharf]

It's when the a variable depend on the value of b, but b may not be known ahead of time

[olive sable]

oh, ok that makes more sense

[opaque wharf]

The example uses concrete value to demostrate the behavior

[opaque sigil]

(Please don't actually use it like in the example you sent)

[olive sable]

i wont

that look horendous

i need my stuff to look good

[opaque sigil]

you're using c++, you already lost that battle

[opaque wharf]

I still loled at the reason about bracket man

[olive sable]

the ony reason C++ is usable to me is the 'using namespace std'

[opaque sigil]

just pls don't put that in a header

i beg

[olive sable]

otherwise i would neve even consider it

[olive sable]

wdym?

[opaque sigil]

or do it as long as nobody else needs to use the header

whatever you throw in a header is forced upon everyone including said header

[olive sable]

i dont get it

[opaque sigil]

if you put using namespace std in a header and include that header in any file it applies there too

[opaque wharf]

Basically when you do #include <someheader>, treat it like copying the content of the file there

[opaque sigil]

including if i include your header

ye

[olive sable]

oh, you mean the include shit

ye i have no clue what im doing yet so i couldnt make a header even if i tried

[opaque wharf]

Header is just another file with different extension usually .h

Variation includes (heh) .hpp .hxx

[opaque sigil]

btw you can also just do using std::cout, std::print etc if you don't want to completely nuke the std prefix

[opaque wharf]

He is still learning, not quite there yet

[opaque sigil]

tru

one step at a time

[opaque wharf]

But if curious, its to make sure no conflict will happen when you have the same "name" basically

[olive sable]

whats the diffrence between a prefix and a postfix increment?

[opaque wharf]

Prefix is doing the increment, then return the result

Postfix is returning the value first, then increment it

[olive sable]

ah

okay

so in a for loop youd have lower values with a postfix

[opaque wharf]

yes

Assuming the comparison is a < b where b++

[olive sable]

ye

[opaque wharf]

But the number of times the loop is executed is more

[olive sable]

i havent seen much memory allocation stuff in the tutorials yet, i was expecting more

im sure it will come

[opaque wharf]

Modern C++ doesn't really encourage manual memory allocation much

[rigid snow]

in a for loop the increment is a separate statement that just gets evaluated after each iteration, it does not matter what it returns

so actually no difference whichever one you use but the convention is i++

[opaque wharf]

Wait, wouldn't it differ in the number of times the loop is executed? I'm a bit rusty on the logic

Ah yes

It may be true in while loop

[rigid snow]

for (<gets evaluated before loop, discard return value>; <gets evaluated before each iteration, return value must be true-ish to continue iteration>; <gets evaluated after each iteration, discard return value>) { ...

[uneven pulsar]

i am making a terminal based ultrakill rpg game in java

very useful to test my java skills wish me luck

[rigid snow]

so a classic for loop is just

int i = 0;
while (i < 10) {
  ...
  i++;
}

[opaque sigil]

not unless you do the increment inside the condition

[rigid snow]

ah yes, for (int i = 0; ++i < 10;), totally a real thing people do

[noble zodiac]

my disdain for that is without limits

[opaque sigil]

i haven't seen it in for loops yet thankfully but definitely in while loops

[midnight sigil]

Remember guys, this and indian voice are what indicate good content

[ivory light]

what??? I'm seeing actual programming in #programming ?? are you guys alright?

[opaque wharf]

Ahhh, DSP my beloved

[midnight sigil]

no

we should vibe code instead

[ivory light]

in 5 years, AIs will fight each others on discord over which languages are most overrated