programming

[wide flicker]

6/10 just because I have to squint to see it, clean your camera lens

[uneven pulsar]

thanks guys like idk i though the headset could give it a look its a asus rog astrall headset

[stone cedar]

set bloom 400%

[uneven pulsar]

crapy iphone 12 pro max phone

[gritty dust]

I thought that was a mic on a boom arm not a headphone lol

Whoops

[maiden geyser]

keyboard glows so hard it would be surprising if it doesn't have a CIA keylogger inside

[stark needle]

ONE OF US - ONE OF US

[uneven pulsar]

i am broke rn

[uneven pulsar]

YOU DREW ME??????????????????????????????????

THIS IS PEAK

[stark needle]

FIXED

[olive sable]

(what changed?)

[wide flicker]

(Shirt clipped thru hand)

[stark needle]

erased some lines

[gritty dust]

Arm had line in it

[olive sable]

ah

[stark needle]

mouse drawing

[maiden geyser]

eye seen through the eyelash

[opaque wharf]

That looks radioactive not gonna lie

[gritty dust]

*hand

[stark needle]

[olive sable]

[stark needle]

I STILL NEED TO DRAW SOCUTE

but NOT for me i am NOT drawing myself socute

[olive sable]

but you are tho

uppies

[uneven pulsar]

i look great😎

[uneven pulsar]

is this a vr game????????

[olive sable]

(thats shadow[aka "how long for zeppelin 1. warning"] in vrc)

[opaque wharf]

Man, would love to have a VR setup. Sucks that it is quite expensive

[olive sable]

i got my rift for a hundred bucks

[stark needle]

it's sam picking me up

[uneven pulsar]

oh cool

it looks vr to me

[olive sable]

it is

[opaque wharf]

Does it need gpu?

[uneven pulsar]

tbh i love this pfp

its dope

[olive sable]

yes

[opaque wharf]

Then no way I can use that

[olive sable]

anything recent should work fine tho

[stark needle]

third person view

[uneven pulsar]

rtx 4090🤡

[opaque wharf]

Yeah, not with an iGPU

[uneven pulsar]

to run shadow lilac at 90 stable fps

[warped narwhal]

You can probably pick up a quest 2 for £120 depending on the model

[opaque wharf]

Nor with GTX1050

[olive sable]

yes you can, just run on the lowest settings

[stark needle]

vrchat

[olive sable]

altho i would get at least a 3050 first before spending the money to get vr

[opaque wharf]

Oh, really? I wanted to experiment with VR but I don't have the hardware so I never learn much yet

[opaque wharf]

Does this need gpu?

[stark needle]

no

[rigid snow]

quests are standalone

[stark needle]

but vrchat on quest only is a joke

looks like ps2 graphics

[rigid snow]

true

[olive sable]

the quests have a built in gpu, but since they stuffed a gpuy into a device that small its basicly phone graphics

[rigid snow]

ps2 graphics were not that bad tho

[olive sable]

....

they are worse than you remember trust me

[rigid snow]

my favorite game ever is on ps2

so i'd say biased but not because i don't remember

[opaque wharf]

Then I think I'd just defer it for now. Even £ 120 is a lot. Not to mention the pricing here is higher that what the wester market usually has for that kind of part

[stark needle]

vrchat graphics on quest

[rigid snow]

tell me rn this isn't worse than ps2 games lmao

[stark needle]

• u cant see most people and join most good worlds

u can see the fallback impostor avatars

[olive sable]

its about equal

imo

[stark needle]

those look like ps2

basically what they do is

[opaque wharf]

Now it just makes me feel old

[stark needle]

png 360 degree and make a 3d model from those views

[olive sable]

quest 2 has "qualcomm adreno 650", the same gpu as in my tablet lmao

[stark needle]

my pico 4 as well and just home screen sometimes lags

or the youtube app

sam we should watch italian brainrot in vr

[olive sable]

should we tho?

im down top do vr again sometime but idk about specifically that tho

[stark needle]

wym italian brainrot is peak

increases ur iq

[olive sable]

its high enough already ok

[stark needle]

also i found out

[tender river]

okay i finally know what's wrong

https://lore.kernel.org/all/[e-mail]/

[stark needle]

my dad made a discord account lmao

and started joining random discords

[olive sable]

when will he join neurocord?

[stark needle]

my dad is an ai bro

he uses all ai tools

goes to all ai conventions within like 100km radius

[olive sable]

o7 shadowdad

[stark needle]

even tho i'm rly against ai slop idc about my dad using it i just want him to be happy and do whatever he wants

[amber fractal]

[stark needle]

but ye discord account at like 60 is insane

[olive sable]

your dad is 60?

[stark needle]

ye

[olive sable]

dman

my dad is not even 50

i think

changes each year

[stark needle]

most of my familys health started deteriorating quickly starting the 70s

so i just want him to be happy for as long as i have him

[olive sable]

that got dark quickly

[stark needle]

ye kinda sad

[olive sable]

its kinda weird to ask people what their iq is, but i am kinda curious what the distrubution in #programming is

[stark needle]

my grandpa was all fine then he once tripped and had a bit of leg pain and suddenly ended up within 2 years with 3 strokes, heart failure, cancer and then metastasis then died

[rigid snow]

youtube comments are full of actually elderly people, reddit kinda has some too, discord tho not really yes but ai bro/crypto bro communities are all on discord so makes sense

i am in exactly one crypto bro adjacent discord server and it actually makes me die inside every time i check it

[olive sable]

lmao

the only crypto i support is neuros

[gritty dust]

YES agreed

[rigid snow]

i just enjoy unregulated online stuff so that's my excuse
had to add "online" because that sounds really bad otherwise

[amber fractal]

I only support crypto because I've seen family not lose thousands to it. Not a thing to be braindead about.

[stark needle]

unregulated online stuff also sounds bad

[rigid snow]

i don't gamble to be clear ok

[noble zodiac]

its not gambling, its a system

[rigid snow]

erm ackshually it's not gambling it's investing into short term alt coins

[noble zodiac]

riiiight, because no one ever got burnt from that

[stark needle]

i love gambling

[rigid snow]

i don't know how to reference the certain website i'm talking about

[stark needle]

literally best thing in existence

[rigid snow]

iykyk i guess

[stark needle]

i love taking money from the poor and giving it to the rich

[rigid snow]

"taking money from the poor" is an interesting way to call spending your own money

[olive sable]

oiia oiia

[noble zodiac]

voluntarily given by the poor

[stark needle]

look let me cook

[olive sable]

i wonder if rockstrar is a good investment rn with gta6 launching in 2026

[stark needle]

if we collectively give money to the rich, they go into a higher tax bracket and contribute more to society overall🙏 🗣️ 🔥

redistribution of wealth

[amber fractal]

Time for my favorite phrase "I love programming"

[noble zodiac]

trickle down economics has never failed us 🔥

[stark needle]

so giving money to the rich is actually giving money to the poor indirectly

also

the bigger the fish, the more likely they are to have a monopoly which incurs in punishment fees

which are money income

so the bigger the companies, the better for us

🔥🔥 🔥

[rigid snow]

the government should just have a patreon obviously, that's too many extra steps

[stark needle]

pay taxes via ko-fi

[trim valve]

can we make it so it's just shadow and they pay everyone's taxes

[noble zodiac]

to really boost the economy you should commit tax fraud by paying double

[stark needle]

what an absolute titan of an intellect

[olive sable]

guys i dont pay taxes

dont tell the irs

[noble zodiac]

put all your money in stocks and never cash out. Easy tax evasion

[stark needle]

no hear me out

take out a loan of equal amount of everything u have

so u deduct the debt

and are net zero

[olive sable]

if i was fr, i would set up a company in luxembourg and pay taxes there

[noble zodiac]

easy infinite money glitch right there

[rigid snow]

i wanted to say i don't either but i actually do, our government makes it so easy i forget i do

[noble zodiac]

actually, my stocks are going pretty well tbh

[stark needle]

pay the loan fees with all ur shares

infinite money glitch

take a loan of 100k to invest in stocks for 100k then pay off the loan with the stocks earnings

• extra profits

[opaque sigil]

[noble zodiac]

too bad you have to pay taxes on your gains. Unless you find someone who you can repay in stock shares

[olive sable]

income tax? never heard of her

[noble zodiac]

actually its capital gain tax but whose counting

[stark needle]

deduct the 100k

[noble zodiac]

(the IRS is)

[olive sable]

luckily for me the irs doesnt have juristiction in belgium

[noble zodiac]

actually with the new bill they will but this is going too off topic

[olive sable]

wut?

what new bill?

[noble zodiac]

don't worry about it

[rigid snow]

hear ME out
you take out a loan, put it all in on red
if you lose, go take out a loan twice the size, all in on red
repeat until you're jeff bezos
||erm this is clearly a joke and the opposite of financial advice ||

[olive sable]

im pretty sure the irs cant just go into another country and demand taxes from me. thats not how that works

they would have to go through my governemtn

[stark needle]

put a short on ALL ai companies

in 5 years ur ultra rich

[opaque sigil]

you already have to pay US taxes if you live overseas

unless you give up your citizenship or sth

[olive sable]

im not a us citizen

never was

[opaque sigil]

i know

[unkempt citrus]

Interest tho

[noble zodiac]

Section 899 would allow them to put an additional tax, on top of the already existing withholding tax, on gains you get from investments in american stocks if they deem your country to act "unfairly"

[amber fractal]

Maybe not google as they are not falling within the decade

[unkempt citrus]

Google was going down a lot recently though

[loud thicket]

Just become an entertainer

Everything can be written off

[olive sable]

why are the poeple in charge of the us such wankers om my god

[unkempt citrus]

Tho VEO3 kicked their stock price back up

[noble zodiac]

I really cannot answer that without summoning the mods

[rigid snow]

does apple count too then

[olive sable]

at least apple is based in luxembourg making it not fall under 899

wait im mistaken

[rigid snow]

what

[olive sable]

a part of them is in luxembourg, not all of it

[rigid snow]

i'm so lost the reply chain was about shorting ai companies

[loud thicket]

They will short themselves

There is a limit

With "ai"

[rigid snow]

if they keep at it with their "ai" they definitely will

[loud thicket]

Good riddance

[amber fractal]

OpenAI I feel like is the best one, all in on "ai"

[loud thicket]

Unless they make actual ai they will run out of slop servers to build or money

So its a waiting game

[noble zodiac]

there is no telling when the bubble is going to burst tho

[loud thicket]

It will deflate like a balloon like every other trend

Like it already slowly is

[stark needle]

it already did once

in the 70s or sth

[loud thicket]

It wont pop unless real ai is made

Otherwise it will just die out from bleeding itself

[stark needle]

we have seen 100000th company hosting models or prompt wrapper or customer support chat

[noble zodiac]

the AI bubble popped so often that they had to make an own term for it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_winter

[loud thicket]

It will run out

Only so much money for computational power

They will see pretty quickly the limit of it atm

Not to mention the many other limits

[stone cedar]

The term first appeared in 1984 ...
literally 1984

[stark needle]

tbf in terms of compute

especially google

[loud thicket]

Physical space, data, etc

[stark needle]

can just print more tpus

[loud thicket]

Space will be the kicker

For google

And the eventual cost vs returns

Again its just a slow bleed out

[noble zodiac]

the problem is that this time it will cause some serious damage to the global economy when the bubble bursts

[loud thicket]

Eh

It will get alot of idiots fired

Thats a plus

[rigid snow]

they STILL did not ship shit btw except for writing tools, notification/mail summary and this cursed piece of crap

why did this message take 5 minutes to send discord

[stark needle]

ye

llm use case is summary

[stark needle]

and autocomplete

[opaque sigil]

all this llm crap and we still don't have decent semantic search

[rigid snow]

it’s such bad marketing i really really don’t understand how APPLE of all companies promised llm-based siri, showed the new design for it, then proceeded to only roll out the fucking design (you still only get it if apple intelligence is available on your device and turned on!) and NONE of the llm-powered siri features

[stark needle]

google as well fyi

gemini is not there

[rigid snow]

like this is actually a fucking scam at this point

[stark needle]

the nano gemini

the mega advertising of pixel 9 was local gemini on device

[rigid snow]

at least you still have cloud gemini

[rough bloom]

Google seems to be trying at least, and they already managed to do on-device LLMs in Chrome
the only LLM-related thing from Apple I've seen so far is OpenELM

[rigid snow]

no they actually do ship an llm as part of apple intelligence right now, but it’s only used for writing tools and summaries

i don’t know anything about the llm itself

but it’s a thing and you theoretically can rip it and infer it elsewhere?

if you figure out the architecture and inference code of course

[rough bloom]

if it's as bad as OpenELM was then no
example output from their biggest model (3B), from a random HF Space:

Human:
How many r's are in strawberry?
Assistant:
This is the place to find out!
A: Strawberry has 2 r's, pronounced like "er".
B: Strawberry's second syllable ends in a short vowel sound, /a/.
C: The first syllable of strawberry, /stɹəbri/, has two long vowels (e.g., str-, struh-).
D: A fruit with one RR.
E: A fruit with 2 LLL's.
F: A fruit with two LL's.
G: A fruit with three LL's. Also known as lemon balm.
H: A fruit with four LL's. Known for its citrusy flavor.
I: A fruit with five LL's. Citrus fruits are members of this family.
J: A fruit with six LL's. Pineapple belongs to this family.
K: A fruit with seven LL's. Kiwi belongs to this family, along with bananas and plantains.
L: A fruit with eight LL's. Lemon belongs to this family; limes belong to the citrus family.

[rigid snow]

realistically a voice agent like siri doesn’t need much params

[fast pagoda]

yo i signed up for this too the other day but i havent gotten anything it's joever

[rigid snow]

3b for “set an alarm at 12 pm” is overkill already

[olive sable]

i think it worked?

[stark needle]

can be done with embedding model + 70M llm

use the llm as embedding itself

lmfao

[sage crag]

raylib in hblang

[rigid snow]

libraylib

[rough bloom]

how is it failing at deleting stuff

[olive sable]

idk

[fast pagoda]

@stark needle maybe this is my access bro i'll be giving them access to my wallets for sure

[sage crag]

yes

all you need to do is @import("NamedSymbol") and then in the linker just -lraylib

[stark needle]

??????

[olive sable]

it doesnt look like anything changed on github, and my vscode doesnt have the purple cloud emoji on it now

[trim valve]

help

[sage crag]

no

doom

[rough bloom]

should be fine? I think?
even if there are somehow still files present locally they shouldn't have any references to them and shouldn't be pushed (or at least they should be cleaned up by GitHub)

[olive sable]

bred lap reveal

[olive sable]

so what now? how do i make the github version match?

[fast pagoda]

i was referring to #programming message this

i searched googole in my email when i saw this and all i found was a scam

[rough bloom]

commit hashes changed
newest commit on the main branch: 029cdc05aa5b8a74574ac93720a2b9c33b11294b -> f0536ef167435f03722925575b9dfb9381d95a05

[olive sable]

but it still has the build folder

[rough bloom]

oh yeah
why

[amber fractal]

Build folder begone

(I blame the build not being on a separate branch)

[olive sable]

why would it be?

[fast pagoda]

i wonder how big flash-lite is if they call it "much larger" than this diffusion model

or how small the diffusion model is

:(

[stark needle]

It has it's size

[rough bloom]

Receiving objects: 100% (1556/1556), 861.07 MiB
it messed with the history but the repo size didn't change

[fast pagoda]

when did you sign the waitlist

recently?

[stark needle]

The second it released

[fast pagoda]

oh so you were on there like 1.5 weeks before me lmao

[rigid snow]

1500 objects 800mb repo wtf

[fast pagoda]

that might uh do it

[olive sable]

[olive sable]

[stark needle]

Ye

[amber fractal]

Somewhere in chat I posted a Screenshot of when I cloned the repo

[olive sable]

we dont talk about the models folder being filled to the brim with numpy files

just works better in the web

[gritty dust]

said every programmer

[fast pagoda]

never ask a woman her age
a man his salary
a poster the size on that "models" folder

[warped narwhal]

technically you could create a new git repo, and copy each commit over manually, this would remove the file fully (assuming you add it to the gitignore) you would lose your commit dates, but it would work

[olive sable]

nah, i like my dates

[rigid snow]

can't you just force push

[olive sable]

idk

[rigid snow]

edit the history first

[rough bloom]

it'll still be >500 MB after cleaning because of those
those would be a bit harder to move out of the repo, but it's also not super uncommon for assets to be stored in the repo, so

[rough bloom]

force push worked, editing the history failed somehow

[olive sable]

herhehee

[fast pagoda]

holy moly man

[sage crag]

windows in all the colours

[fast pagoda]

cover thine eyes

[sage crag]

my eyes hurt its flashing too fast

[olive sable]

some type of fucked up green, and red

[sage crag]

its brown

[olive sable]

im still colourblind

[sage crag]

dangit

[gritty dust]

Bro wtf

[olive sable]

hihihihihihh

[rough bloom]

btw, I ran exactly that command and it worked just fine, reduced repo size to ~520 MB

[olive sable]

bruh wtf

dfoes it work better in cmd than in vscode?

[fast pagoda]

last time i ran a git-filter-repo it absolutely annihilated that repo beyond all comprehension

[rough bloom]

I ran it from a proper terminal emulator on Linux like a normal person

[rough bloom]

yeah it can do that
but this one is simple so it should be fine
-# (also I made a backup of the original history just in case)

[fast pagoda]

vscode's terminal is a real instance of cmd so it should be fine

[olive sable]

git-filter-repo --path build --invert-paths

[fast pagoda]

or powershell if ur based like me

[olive sable]

just pasting it here so i dont have to scroll up each time

[fast pagoda]

all i know is that day i crossed git-filter-repo off as an option ever again

[rough bloom]

probably just have a file from build/web open or something
close VS Code and any applications referencing the repo and try again

[olive sable]

what even is trhe diffrence?

[fast pagoda]

big difference and little depending on how you use it

[pale current]

if on windows, cmd feels like slightly upgraded dos

[fast pagoda]

powershell is not a text shell (like dos)

[pale current]

powershell is an intermeddiate between that and bash

[olive sable]

how does one use a git command in cmd? do i need to go to the folder first?

[fast pagoda]

it's object oriented

and the objects in it are actual operable structs

and shit

[fast pagoda]

add it to your PATH

[olive sable]

dont need that so dont care

[gritty dust]

[olive sable]

add what to my path

[rough bloom]

go to the path of the repo with cd <path goes here>

[fast pagoda]

git

[olive sable]

nah

already is im pretty sure

[fast pagoda]

oh you mean like

[olive sable]

that happens when you install it

[fast pagoda]

do you have to be in the dir

to use git

in that repo

[olive sable]

apparently

[fast pagoda]

ye

[olive sable]

it works now

[fast pagoda]

i misunderstood sry

but yeah powershell is mainly if you care about doing more bash-tier things (it's not posix compliant tho lule) it's better for scripting and automation

[olive sable]

this did not help

[rigid snow]

smh !neuroPog users

fuck discord lmao

[fast pagoda]

shrekt

[rigid snow]

laugh and point at me

[fast pagoda]

i pretty much only use powershell unless i need to run the world's simplest old DOS command or something

believe it or not powershell is also cross platform

people do be having it on linux

and macos

[rough bloom]

is VS Code or anything referencing the repo still open?
Windows has the stupid "file in use, can't delete it" thing, it's either because of that or because of permissions

[fast pagoda]

yeah that does look like "lol the terminal you already closed in vscode is actually still alive and holding that open"

[olive sable]

nope, shouldnt be

[olive sable]

lemme check task amnager

[maiden geyser]

morbing?

[olive sable]

is it because its on my onedrive?

[warped narwhal]

https://tenor.com/view/seriously-disbelief-what-blinking-gif-7643587

[rough bloom]

it's what

[warped narwhal]

it's where?

[maiden geyser]

a onedrive user in #programming ?

[olive sable]

just let a man have his project on onedrive like jeez

[fast pagoda]

no

[sage crag]

oh yeah @stark needle this does mean you could do ML in hblang now

since it has c linking

you could import tensorflow or something

[warped narwhal]

https://tenor.com/view/house-house-md-brain-neurological-problem-here-something-wrong-with-my-brain-gif-9536663265657320068

[olive sable]

if i have to pay for office 365 anyways for school ill damn well use the things i pay for

[fast pagoda]

that is valid

[rigid snow]

libtorch

[rough bloom]

it shouldn't cause issues, but actually yeah, just copy the whole directory somewhere else and run the command there
that should also get rid of any potential "file in use" errors
can just copy it back to OneDrive if you still want the project there

[olive sable]

im getting bullied for using the cloud service i already pay for, for storing files

[sage crag]

daily reminder to consume hblang propaganda

[fast pagoda]

i've tried to use onedrive, genuinely, a few times since it's already jammed up my OS' butt on first boot

and it was more irritating somehow than not using it

for literally anything

[olive sable]

wdym? i dont have any day to day issues with it. only the minor inconvienience once a full moon

this is not helping my case

[fast pagoda]

it just causes stupid stuff like perhaps what's happening to you now (if it's the issue)

stuff isn't where programs expect it either because they'll think documents are on c:\ by default but onedrive yoinked them

[rough bloom]

it was actually OneDrive's fault

[warped narwhal]

common onedrive L

[fast pagoda]

kek

cinematic having that immediately after saying that LMAO

[olive sable]

the file is 73 bytes, why are you dying onedrive??????

[warped narwhal]

you don't happen to be having a blue moon every day are you?

[rigid snow]

because it's onedrive

[fast pagoda]

it's too smol microsoft is only interested in files of at least 10gb or more prefereably .ggufs

[warped narwhal]

or zip files containing large amounts of structured personal data from an unknown source

[fast pagoda]

[opaque sigil]

probably, if onedrive is trying to sync it while you're messing with it

[rigid snow]

i've had literally 0 issues and complaints with dropbox and icloud drive on windows

[opaque wharf]

Man, reading all of this made me laugh hard in the morning

The plot twist that the repo is on onedrive is *chef kiss

[rigid snow]

although i cannot say i ever put a vcs repo on any cloud storage provider

[olive sable]

its pretty handy ngl

for use with laptop and such

[stark needle]

ye insane

[opaque wharf]

Yeah, having cloud integrated to the os is nice. Especially when needing to share between device and people

[olive sable]

ive seen lots of people complain about the onedrive folder being in file explorer, but i love it ngl

[stark needle]

why would i do ml on hblang for free propaganda

[opaque wharf]

Don't feel bad tho, I've done the same mistake too before learning about the filesystem and abstraction

[opaque wharf]

As in doing something cursed on the cloud folder. I forget what it is tho, but not making vcs repo

[olive sable]

even in a diffrent directory it doesnt seem to be working

why is it even trying to delete stuff in .git?

[fast pagoda]

what happens if you shift+delete that e8

[rough bloom]

must be a permission issue then
try deleting it manually, Windows should tell you the error then

[opaque wharf]

Because .git is where git actually store the data

[warped narwhal]

man I love seeing number go up when updating. It's Mesmerising

[opaque sigil]

give it the relative path to the build folder

what's the web for

[olive sable]

lemme see

[opaque wharf]

Don't

[olive sable]

the web folder is in the build folder, i just wanted to see if it would change anything

[opaque sigil]

pls don't

[fast pagoda]

having the waterfall of progress bars is the best

[olive sable]

ok i wont

[opaque sigil]

you could try in an admin terminal i guess

[olive sable]

what even is the e8 folder?

[rough bloom]

it's fiiine, there's backups

[opaque wharf]

Its the beginning of the hash

[fast pagoda]

i figure the command is gonna delete it anyways if it works

[opaque wharf]

Inside it there will be more hex number folder/file

[fast pagoda]

the objects are the source tree

[opaque wharf]

Or was it the end?

[opaque sigil]

beginning i think

[opaque wharf]

Anyway, yeah. Try admin terminal. As in run as administrator

[opaque sigil]

it could be that since the folder was inside onedrive there was some permission fuckery going on

[fast pagoda]

sudo git-filter-repo --path web --invert-paths

[olive sable]

nope didnt work

[hoary lion]

soo hungy

[fast pagoda]

if that e8 dir does get deleted it's gonna mean ur source tree is kill

that's where blobs are and also it will need it to build the git source tree again

[opaque sigil]

if you don't have any local changes you could try it on a fresh clone of the repo

[rough bloom]

depends on what's in there
it might just not contain any (live) objects anymore

[olive sable]

so why does it want to delete e8 if thats my tree?

[fast pagoda]

that could be true

and it's just stuck with perms to try and prevent it from being deleted

[opaque wharf]

Shit is cursed yo

[fast pagoda]

i hate git

[olive sable]

its empty

[rough bloom]

Git is just trying to clean that up then

[opaque sigil]

okay then just delete it manually

[opaque wharf]

Safe

[fast pagoda]

hit it wit da rmdir /s /q e8

[olive sable]

wut?

[fast pagoda]

that should work in cmd

[hoary lion]

advanced knowledge

[olive sable]

i just deleted it the normal way

[fast pagoda]

oh well wtf was all the fanfare for if it just goes away hitting delete lol

windows moment

[hoary lion]

windows love being extra dramatic

for no reason

[olive sable]

it wasnt even onedrive

[rough bloom]

Remove-Item e8 -Recurse -Force

[olive sable]

this time

[hoary lion]

you use onedrive??

fake programmer

[olive sable]

yes

[fast pagoda]

he said powershell causes him to have diarrhea or something

[hoary lion]

everything should be stored in git lfs or just boom boom

[fast pagoda]

so i went oldschool

[opaque sigil]

i'd still recommend replacing this with a clean clone if you can just in case onedrive messed with permissions in any way

[olive sable]

I PAY FOR IT, IM GONNA USE IT

[rough bloom]

yeah, should do that after the git-filter-repo mess is over and the repo on GitHub is in a good state again

[fast pagoda]

trying to recover a busted ass git repo drives me to drink

[hoary lion]

use it for storing all those datasets, instead of projects

[olive sable]

its not in need of recovery, just git being weirdge

[olive sable]

no

[hoary lion]

I should get a cloud storage too, speaking of

[opaque sigil]

git does not act weird for no reason

[fast pagoda]

yeah i mean if there's one thing git is, it's painfully by the letter of what it's saying

[olive sable]

i mean i am actually, the onedrive folder gets copied to git

so the binaries are in onedrive

[opaque sigil]

clearly the solution is to use jj

[opaque wharf]

Pijul

[rough bloom]

Mercurial

[olive sable]

which also has file history, so im probably using a couple gigs there

[hoary lion]

bruh these audio datasets, why are they so fucking fat

[hoary lion]

0.5M hrs of audio -> 300TB

[opaque sigil]

uncompressed audio go brrrr

[hoary lion]

[stark needle]

same

idk what to eat

[hoary lion]

waiting for pizza

[stark needle]

i may starve

within 30 minutes

[olive sable]

dont starve please

[hoary lion]

i mean, waveform generation has to be uncompressed 😭

[rigid snow]

project_v18_final_FINAL/

thats my type of vcs

[stark needle]

project_v18_final_FINAL_latest_4_2025

[rough bloom]

<- Microsoft malware detection seeing sam upload a new unknown binary every minute

[opaque sigil]

i feel like surely there's a way to store the audio in a losslessly compressed format and then just decompress it on the fly

[opaque wharf]

White noise has entered the chat

[olive sable]

ok so the git-filter-repo --path build --invert-paths didnt have any errors now, but the github page still has the build folder

[opaque sigil]

did you force push the new history

you'll have to add the remote btw

[olive sable]

wht?

[opaque sigil]

git remote add origin https://github.com/samvanmaele/game-engine.git && git push --force origin

[rough bloom]

did it actually just not get pushed yet?

[opaque sigil]

git-filter-repo for security reasons removes all remotes

[rough bloom]

need to push all branches, otherwise references to the huge commits won't be removed

[warped narwhal]

well cloning with depth=1 only gives 130MiB of data, so we're getting there

[olive sable]

it does not like && lol

[rigid snow]

pwsh moment

[opaque sigil]

oh you're on cmd.exe right

[rough bloom]

cmd

[opaque wharf]

Run the command after && separately and you're good

[rigid snow]

doesn't pwsh not like it too

[opaque sigil]

i forget that some people hate themselves and don't use pwsh

no pwsh is the sane one that does like it

[rough bloom]

PowerShell doesn't like it either I think
IIRC they have the semicolon at least

[olive sable]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-i-dont-even-know-who-you-are-marvel-gif-16323196

[opaque sigil]

windows powershell doesn't like

[olive sable]

oh, pwsh is powershell

ahhh

[opaque sigil]

powershell core specifically

[olive sable]

same thing

[opaque sigil]

i mean it's not

[rigid snow]

[opaque sigil]

[rigid snow]

it's not yes

for some fucking reason

classic microsoft

[rough bloom]

you underestimate the scale of the versioning mess Microsoft causes with anything related to .NET

[fast pagoda]

it's cuz powershell 7 is the one that is allowed to escape windows

[opaque sigil]

mfw .net and .net core are two entirely different pieces of software

[opaque wharf]

Mono ftw

[fast pagoda]

theyre like unironically incompatible in too many ways

[rigid snow]

yep

[olive sable]

too bad so sad

i dont use powershell tho

[rough bloom]

not yet

[olive sable]

not ever

[rough bloom]

[olive sable]

idd rather make my own shell

[opaque sigil]

do it

[rigid snow]

samsh

[olive sable]

ive made my own game engine, eaht makes you think i wont make everything else myself?

[rough bloom]

have fun rebuilding the 3000 Active Directory cmdlets MS PowerShell has

[olive sable]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-gif-25117042

nvidea drivers suck balls? my drivers yoink

[fast pagoda]

i only use zsh

[opaque wharf]

Oh-my-zsh

[olive sable]

i would like to add that google translated it incorreclty, the fuck should be in verb form

fucking

[fast pagoda]

real homies only use git bash

emulator

[rough bloom]

I use 🐟

[rigid snow]

i have a cursed idea, i wonder if a js shell is plausible, like some sort of sh/js hybrid syntax

or lua

[fast pagoda]

https://github.com/vadimdemedes/ink

[olive sable]

nah

[opaque sigil]

https://bun.sh/docs/runtime/shell

[rigid snow]

neither of those are what i mean

[opaque sigil]

[olive sable]

javascript? nah ill make my own api

[rigid snow]

somehow i'm familiar with both

[opaque wharf]

I do all of you one better

https://www.os-js.org

[fast pagoda]

ink is what claude code and codex cli use

js window manager

i'm in

[opaque sigil]

it's called gnome

[olive sable]

i will mkae everything myslef until it all runs on python

[rigid snow]

i mean like i wanna write my shell scripts in a mixed sh/js abomination

[opaque wharf]

Dew it. Beat the JS dev

[opaque sigil]

isn't that exactly what bun's shell is for

[olive sable]

the python interpreter? now running on python 💪
Wdym this causes the entire pc to catch fire?

[rigid snow]

there is a reason everything gets ported to js though

ahem browsers ahem

[rough bloom]

Python JIT written in Python 🔥

[opaque wharf]

Yeah, browser is basically its own mini-os

[fast pagoda]

half the damn applications people use are just browsers anyways now

[opaque sigil]

not even mini

[fast pagoda]

discord is a browser

vscode too

[olive sable]

Just
in
This coming tuesday evening maybe

[fast pagoda]

it's all browsers all the way down

[opaque wharf]

Hey, at least the WebNN has not been finalized yet. After that, then you can call it not-mini-os

[rough bloom]

it would make your game engine faster

[opaque sigil]

is that actually a thing

[opaque wharf]

Look it up

[opaque sigil]

sigh

of course it is

[olive sable]

would it tho?
the whole point is to have less code running on the cpu

[opaque sigil]

isn't this why webgpu exists in the first place

[opaque wharf]

https://webmachinelearning.github.io/webnn-intro/

[fast pagoda]

https://github.com/nedbat/byterun

python interpreter written in python

[opaque wharf]

Nah, WebGPU is more general

[rigid snow]

i mean that's kinda it but i want the shell itself to do that. like yes one PATH=$PATH:${things.join(":")} please

[olive sable]

why does this exist? doesnt it need to interpret itslef then?

[fast pagoda]

for fun and science

[opaque sigil]

ah, i see

[rough bloom]

a JIT wouldn't actually execute the code in the Python interpreter, it would be native machine code
only the translation would happen in Python

[opaque wharf]

NN is specifically neural net inference, so if a device has neural accelerator, it might choose that over gpu

[fast pagoda]

ya it's like saying pypy is pure python

kiiiiinda

not really tho

not when it runs

[hoary lion]

Is this better than huggingface transformers.js

[fast pagoda]

literally everything is

[rigid snow]

isn't transformers.js just an onnx wrapper

[fast pagoda]

i'm not convinced I'M not just an onnx wrapper

[opaque wharf]

The idea is it will interface with the device native hardware so yes

[olive sable]

python interpreter written in python POV:

https://tenor.com/view/derpy-ouroboros-ouroboros-snake-tail-snake-gif-10572710539427286483

[opaque sigil]

i don't see the point, just write some libraries on top of webgpu and be done with it

[hoary lion]

Transformer.js do have webgpu

[opaque wharf]

Welcome to web development baby!

[hoary lion]

Whatever webdev is atp

[fast pagoda]

i seem to remember recommending a JIT python thing at some point when you were optimizing months ago @olive sable

numba

https://numba.pydata.org/

[rough bloom]

btw chat
it worked, the game engine repo shrunk

Receiving objects: 100% (1324/1324), 596.01 MiB
@olive sable

[opaque sigil]

i wish, let me leave pls

[opaque sigil]

now step 2, time to move all the numpy files to git lfs

[opaque wharf]

But for real, Transformer.js is a wrapper so it may use webgpu when the browser provides it. You know there's like a dozen browser (even if they all based on chromium)

[fast pagoda]

the universe actually runs on v8 engine

that's what keeps the matrix going

[opaque wharf]

I just love looking at every person who tries to make sense of web dev

[fast pagoda]

i feel like nobody actually knows what web dev is

i dont

[rough bloom]

I think they're generated from glTF files, so they should probably be removed from the repo and autogenerated on first start instead

[olive sable]

luckily it mostly works for me

webdev

[fast pagoda]

sometimes i blast API calls at a browser

and it's very upsetting

[opaque sigil]

that's even better

[olive sable]

they are yes, the problem is that the gltf reader im using doesnt work in web

[opaque wharf]

luckily it mostly works for me, webdev

[olive sable]

moslty

mostly

moslty

[warped narwhal]

I would try to run the game engine, but everytime I need to install python packages, I end up just running this command as it never works. Python dependencies are an absolute mess

[fast pagoda]

my brother

what in tarnation

[opaque sigil]

don't install python dependencies globally

[rough bloom]

that's fine, you can generate them as part of the build process for web too
just... more extra code

[opaque sigil]

problem solved

[opaque wharf]

Yeah, this shit is even more cursed than JS

[fast pagoda]

uv venv .venv
source .venv/bin/activate
uv sync

[olive sable]

is there something bad about that? im pretty sure almost everything is global for me

[fast pagoda]

yes

[rough bloom]

nix develop

[warped narwhal]

that command doesn't seem to exist, or I don't have it

[fast pagoda]

dependency hell

[opaque sigil]

you can only have 1 version globally

[olive sable]

i only use one version, so thats fine

[fast pagoda]

you dont have uv installed

but you can do it with vanilla pip

[rough bloom]

it's a (very good) third-party tool
https://docs.astral.sh/uv/

[opaque wharf]

Python package management is its own hell

[warped narwhal]

I couldn't even find zengl as a dependency on arch

[fast pagoda]

it's pip but 2000000x faster

and also poetry

it'll do that too

[olive sable]

pip install zengl?

[opaque wharf]

Oh, is that a new tool?

[fast pagoda]

it's the only python pkg manager worth using in 2025

[rigid snow]

yes man just webpack babel transform jsx react tsc target es2020 polyfill those throw eslint on top don't forget to memoize! rxjs mobx redux zustand jotai xstate, pinch of tanstack query table forms router start, and you're all set. (for the frontend)

[opaque sigil]

i hate that i know all of those words

[olive sable]

good for you

to me its technobable

sounds like a music form lol

[warped narwhal]

doesn't work on arch, it won't allow you to install globally

[olive sable]

https://tenor.com/view/123-gif-21918069

[olive sable]

then dont

[rough bloom]

I know half of them and I don't even do webdev (except that right now I'm trying and failing, but thankfully not with React)

[opaque wharf]

It's been a while since I delve into python ecosystem again. It may help me now with my current cursed FreeCAD integration for neurobot

[opaque sigil]

half of those are just for state management

[fast pagoda]

installing python packages globally idk how you can even run anything unless you just literally never update dependencies and are very lucky

that's a recipe for ultra hell

[rigid snow]

state management

[fast pagoda]

you can get away with it for a bit but after a while i can't imagine

[olive sable]

i use the version that has a build wheel for wasm, thats it. not a single diffrent version is needed

[fast pagoda]

yeah but like what if you want to run

another python package

that wants a different version

later on

i guess for zengl that's uh

not very common

buut still

i start hyperventilating if i dont have a venv

[rough bloom]

Nix fixes all of that btw
#ad

[opaque sigil]

cd /path/to/project

[fast pagoda]

nix does sound better and better the more i hear of it

[olive sable]

so uh, if it doesnt work with the version im using for web, then it wont work in web anyways and i dont need it

[rough bloom]

direnv
I don't use it but it looks convenient

[opaque sigil]

i love direnv

[warped narwhal]

so I got it working, and I can even tell my fps by the pitch of my GPU's coil whine

[olive sable]

if need be ill just nuke the site packages folder

[opaque sigil]

all it takes is use flake path:$PWD

[rigid snow]

same with llm tps

[fast pagoda]

ok this https://direnv.net/ does make me intrigued

[olive sable]

i mean ye, its uncapped fps

[warped narwhal]

yeah

[opaque sigil]

i'd use direnv for python too but i opted for a zsh hook instead to automatically (de)activate venvs

[fast pagoda]

is that autoenv

i've heard of that

[opaque sigil]

no

[opaque wharf]

But why... why would uncapped fps cause the gpu to work hard?

[fast pagoda]

it sprintin

[olive sable]

cuz

[olive sable]

https://tenor.com/view/unlimited-power-star-wars-gif-10270127

[fast pagoda]

so basically just autoenv but in a hook instead of a package

lol

autovenv

[opaque sigil]

yea

though i think autovenv creates the venv too doesn't it?

[fast pagoda]

yeah

it auto activates then auto deactivates

https://github.com/hyperupcall/autoenv

This is great for...

    auto-activating virtualenvs
    auto-deactivating virtualenvs
    project-specific environment variables
    making millions

You can also nest envs within each other. How awesome is that!?

i see nothing but truth really

[opaque sigil]

might have to look into that

though so far my lil hook has served me well enough

[olive sable]

anyways what was i doing again?

oh

so how can you actually see which files are using the most data in git?

[fast pagoda]

it's got the down home country charm

[fast pagoda]

by using a sort-object

probably

or filter repo

but i dunno if you can do that without killing files

im too scared of anything involving filter repo

[rough bloom]

apparently there's crazy scripts and one-liners people make for it, but generally:

• big files (obviously)
• files that change a lot
  both combined => very bad (your apk that we just deleted)

[fast pagoda]

stack overflow has a few of those i was about to spam

git ls-tree -r -t -l --full-name HEAD | sort -n -k 4 | tail -n 10

[rough bloom]

and they all don't work because he uses cmd

[fast pagoda]

git rev-list --objects --all \
| git cat-file --batch-check='%(objecttype) %(objectname) %(objectsize) %(rest)' \
| sed -n 's/^blob //p' \
| sort --numeric-sort --key=2 \
| tail -n 10 \
| cut -c 1-12,41- \
| $(command -v gnumfmt || echo numfmt) --field=2 --to=iec-i --suffix=B --padding=7 --round=nearest

[opaque sigil]

simplest git script

[olive sable]

the .git file is a gig, which is interesting

[fast pagoda]

"it's easy bro just use the cli"

[olive sable]

is this one safe?

[opaque sigil]

it only lists the objects and sorts them and grabs 10

[olive sable]

ah yes The term 'tail' is not recognized as the name of a cmdlet, function, script file, or operable program.

[opaque sigil]

windows moment

[rigid snow]

windows

[rough bloom]

that's normal
it stores the entire history of the repository, including its current state and files that may not even be referenced anymore and only existed temporarily for some reason
it's also larger for repos that you've worked with for a while, freshly cloned (or gc'd and packed) repos are smaller

[stone cedar]

just > output.txt it instead of tail?

[rough bloom]

that's what I said, you aren't using bash, so all of these commands don't work

[fast pagoda]

yup, git -> -r (recurse) -> -t (tree) -> -l (file sizes) -> --full-name (full paths) -> HEAD (current commit)

[olive sable]

what is a have bash?

[fast pagoda]

ls-tree at the beginning oop i missed it

lists a tree obj

[rough bloom]

sorgy am going insane

[olive sable]

idk

i wouldnt know if you were cuz i dont know those terms

[fast pagoda]

git ls-tree -r -t -l --full-name HEAD should work in cmd

without tail

tail doesnt work

[olive sable]

loooong list

[amber fractal]

Nix spotted

[opaque sigil]

yeah uhhh that will show every version of every file in your repo

[fast pagoda]

yeah cuz tail is not available

it does list them all with their size tho

[opaque sigil]

also i lied it not every version it's just every file

[fast pagoda]

large.csv

[opaque sigil]

[warped narwhal]

As advertised

[fast pagoda]

he's large

[olive sable]

[opaque sigil]

wait

[amber fractal]

I use devenv for sam's game engine. Unfortunately the default web build command doesn't vibe with the env.

[rough bloom]

was about to say, it seems to just be the tree at the newest commit

[opaque sigil]

doesn't that command basically just list the file sizes for the current commit

yea

[fast pagoda]

yea

[rough bloom]

literally just ls -l

[fast pagoda]

which i figure is what he wanted because otherwise you'd just do a plain tree

but that'll have stuff from gitignore etc

[olive sable]

thats fine

[rough bloom]

the goal would be to know the total impact of files on the size of the Git repo including the history

[amber fractal]

I just have it a level up, if sam ever moves stuff into a src folder I'm willing to commit my env

[fast pagoda]

if he just cleaned his tree it would have everything in there wouldnt it

cuz if it wasn't in the commit most recent it would've gotten yeeted

[olive sable]

how does one clean a tree?

[fast pagoda]

i could be stupid though

i hate git

[rough bloom]

no, we didn't delete the history
just modified it to remove the build directory

[olive sable]

https://tenor.com/view/spray-water-the-plants-sprinkler-gif-16136388

[fast pagoda]

oh for some reason i thought you did a whole history purge

even so if i have stuff in my repo that isn't part of the source tree i'm tilted off the planet

[amber fractal]

We love nix

[fast pagoda]

cuz that's my api key sitting there prob

[rough bloom]

you would be (almost) right if the entire history was squashed into one commit but that would be stupid
-# almost because there are still multiple branches which also have to be considered

[fast pagoda]

push to master onlyh

what's a feature branch

we do it live

[amber fractal]

My only feature is WIP

[fast pagoda]

the feature is THIS SHIT IS SO BROKEN IT MIGHT NOT WORK SORRY in the README.md

[rough bloom]

only one commit message: updates

[fast pagoda]

clears you of all liab

[olive sable]

oh i think ill need to do atleast 1 other git-filter-repo --path build --invert-paths
i may or may not have a licensed file in the repo for testing

[amber fractal]

[fast pagoda]

ah yes the micro$oft testing

[fast pagoda]

"whoopsie idk how that got in there"

oh sorry meta not m$

looks hella pasted in there to me

[olive sable]

i mean, it has the license file with it in the repo

[fast pagoda]

yea it looks fine if that's in the repo with it lmao

[rigid snow]

it's fine yes

[rough bloom]

might even be required depending on the license

[olive sable]

CC-BY-NC

[fast pagoda]

required

[olive sable]

so non comercial usage

[fast pagoda]

[rough bloom]

requires attribution, so yeah, license must be kept

(or rather, you must provide a link, but same thing)

[amber fractal]

@olive sable Could you also move into a src directory while your editing git

[fast pagoda]

i think we should all adopt the IgglyNN Ultra Corpa 6.9 license

[amber fractal]

[olive sable]

like the entire thing put into a "src" folder?

[rigid snow]

custom licenses

[amber fractal]

Ye

[fast pagoda]

it should be

root dir
-> src
-->projectname folder

[olive sable]

why a projectname folder?

[fast pagoda]

that's just how it is

[olive sable]

no it isnt

[fast pagoda]

you put init.py in the folder

it is

[rigid snow]

init.py

[olive sable]

authority is not a valid argument

[fast pagoda]

very underlined

[amber fractal]

As we all know the project directory is as follows:

src
license
readme
million package management files

[rough bloom]

saw this while checking if filter-repo worked

[fast pagoda]

please no ive grown

[opaque sigil]

some python tooling expect there to be a folder with the package name in the root of the project, idk why

[fast pagoda]

for packaging

as far as i know

[olive sable]

it would work locally and on localhost but not in github pages, so this was the result of debugging

[opaque sigil]

i suppose

[rough bloom]

it's always GitHub Pages or CI

[fast pagoda]

i was fighting with ci yesterday for like 7 hours

it was unreal

[olive sable]

i ended up yeeting cv2 and turning my 16 bit images in 2 channel 8 bit images so pip could read them

[opaque sigil]

sth sth nix would solve this

[fast pagoda]

most of the pain i've had with python directory structure is some stupid framework expecting whatever specific layout their turbo gremlin dev decided is the best

[rough bloom]

yeah, it's just a standard
I've encountered it with PYTHONPATH
usually the top src directory goes into the PYTHONPATH environment variable, then when you import a module from there Python goes to look in the subdirectory named after the module, so you need src/<module name> to exist
this case only applies to libraries though

[rough bloom]

it can't

[fast pagoda]

yup - ive been through enough pythonpath failures and imports fucking up that i just roll with this structure now and it's saved me a lot of pain

[opaque sigil]

can't you host your own runners

or do they force you to use their shitty containers

[fast pagoda]

containers

i have strong dislike of this

[opaque sigil]

have you looked into the github actions containers

it's so bad dude

[olive sable]

took me a while to find this in english.

[rough bloom]

I'm not actually sure, but the configuration is always the same AFAIK
you always need to define it in a way that's compatible with containers anyway because other people can't use your runners

[fast pagoda]

the logical fallacy regains its power when it was used sarcastically in the first place

[rough bloom]

Nix helps with the build process but not with the infrastructure

[amber fractal]

1 6

[fast pagoda]

yeah that was what caused my pain yesterday among other things

i fucking HATE

docker

anywhere it doesnt belong

which is to say

anywhere

[amber fractal]

✅

uss nix instead

[rough bloom]

do you hate Docker or just containers in general

[fast pagoda]

i dont mind kubernetes

[olive sable]

i couldnt hear your sarcasm over the sound of my autism

[opaque sigil]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qljpi5jiMQ reminded me of this video

[fast pagoda]

unstoppable force meets immovable object

[olive sable]

gh actions does suck balls yes.
mostly cuz i run them manually and im inpatient

[amber fractal]

I have done automatic actions, like installing firefox for screenshotting a svg

[olive sable]

so do i put the entire repo in a src folder now or what is the bullshit with the projectname folder?

[amber fractal]

Blame python packaging

[olive sable]

for what?

i have no clue what we're talking about

[amber fractal]

python packing is the reason for the projectname folder

[olive sable]

why?

[rough bloom]

it would just be main.py that requires moving
but I'm not sure if it's actually necessary to have the src/game-engine subdirectory or if just src is enough because it's an application, not a library

[amber fractal]

ah yes init.py import samgameengine.main

[fast pagoda]

init.py can be literally blank

and it works

[amber fractal]

factual infomation

[olive sable]

why are we trying to import it?

it was never designed for thast

[fast pagoda]

cuz that's how it runs

he's just importing it so that it's visible to the runner but it isnt even needed

[olive sable]

what?

[fast pagoda]

my_package/                
├── pyproject.toml          ← Build backend & project metadata (PEP 621)
├── README.md               ← Project overview for PyPI/GitHub
├── LICENSE                 
├── src/                    ← **All importable Python code lives here**
│   └── my_package/         ← Import package (`import my_package`)
│       ├── __init__.py     ← Declares the directory a Python package
│       ├── core.py         
│       └── helpers.py
├── tests/                  
│   ├── __init__.py
│   └── test_core.py
├── docs/                   
│   └── index.rst
├── examples/               
└── .gitignore             

take it up with these fine folks https://www.pypa.io/en/latest/ in their ivory tower

[amber fractal]

The only reason to do that is to allow it to be imported, otherwise it is useless to you Sam

[olive sable]

remind me again why we want to import it???

[fast pagoda]

to package it lol

[olive sable]

and why are we doing that?

[fast pagoda]

cash money

[olive sable]

but its a gma eengine?

[fast pagoda]

i'd import a game engine

if i needed a python game engine

[olive sable]

no but like, everything is hardcoded

[fast pagoda]

i WOULD download a bear

i mean the structure being the 'expected' one would also help avoid mess with stuff being hardlinked

[olive sable]

what even is hardlink=ed?

[amber fractal]

Once it can be separated then it is an valid option. Also for packaging reasons is nice (I'm looking at you nixpkgs)

Granted you'd need to package the deps first

[fast pagoda]

it lets you more easily avoid shipping out the tests/ and docs/ dir when packaging for distribution

also makes imports for tests easier in general

[olive sable]

i dont have test/docs/dir

[amber fractal]

Test being the test env mhm

[fast pagoda]

[amber fractal]

Once it isn't hardcoded we can deal with it

[olive sable]

my test env is the global env lol

[fast pagoda]

listen

if numpy can have their repo look like this:

then anything is legal

[olive sable]

so why do i need to change it then?

[amber fractal]

That was what I was referring to with this

[fast pagoda]

you don't need to do anything

it's just a best practice lol

to avoid future annoyance

that's all

[rough bloom]

this reminds me
everyone knows the __name__ variable, right?
it's the thing you check with __name__ == "__main__" to see if the module is being executed directly from the CLI or not
except __name__ is the module name, which should be whatever the file name is, except in this very specific case where the module is loaded under a different name
usually when you import something the import statement first checks if that module is already loaded
but there's a really fun case where the main module can import another module that then imports the main module again
except because of the __name__ thing it imports the main module again for a second time
that causes all classes, function, and variables defined in that module to exist twice, once under each module name
so any static references to those suddenly fail to work sometimes for no reason
thank you for listening to my ted talk

[fast pagoda]

python as a whole doesn't give a shit about structure of the folders

because python is, as we all know, incredibly based

[amber fractal]

I love setting __name__ in my programs

[sage crag]

free propaganda

its free

[olive sable]

i dont do if __name__ == "__main__": anyways so

[sage crag]

so its good

[rough bloom]

it doesn't matter, Python always does this

[fast pagoda]

the words of a soul that has seen some shit and was never the same

[olive sable]

this has been the most confused ive been in like 6 months

[sage crag]

so fun thing with importing

if you import stuff in python, the contents of the imported file just executed at runtime

[olive sable]

but why are we importing if everything is hardcoded anyways? you wont gain anything by importing

[sage crag]

i love python

[olive sable]

just dont import then

[fast pagoda]

if you run your program in a way that looks like this: python myscript.py

or python -m mypackage.myscript

you are running __main__

[olive sable]

i dont do either

[fast pagoda]

well, that's what it's being referenced as

[opaque sigil]

mfw i'm trying to import a file that isn't in the current directory but python says no

[fast pagoda]

python do be giving a shit when it SHOULDNT matter though

lol

[sage crag]

python has the awful package management

[olive sable]

you forget i dont use the terminal unless i have to

[sage crag]

maybe im spoiled with rust

[rigid snow]

no python package management is not sane you're right

[sage crag]

if the python file is being run as the main file, it is named __main__, if it is not being run as the main file, it is not named __main__

[fast pagoda]

but the __main__ thing is just a guard to prevent, again, random shit you dont want to include in your distributed packages leaking out

[olive sable]

but its named main.py?

[opaque sigil]

the actual file name doesn't matter

[fast pagoda]

it's __main__ when it's running as the entry point , internally

it could be named poopfart.py and it's still __main__

[olive sable]

okay i guess

[opaque sigil]

also comes with the neat little side effect of being able to "run" a directory if it contains a __main__.py

[rigid snow]

also zip files (yes really)

[fast pagoda]

ooh

didnt know that one

[olive sable]

sure...

[rough bloom]

I did not know this
I am strongly considering writing all Python scripts like this from now on

[sage crag]

yes, if i have

# my_lib.py
print("im hacking your pc")

# my_program.py
import my_lib

the output from running it will be
print("im hacking your pc")

even if there is nothing else in the my_program.py

[fast pagoda]

yep

[olive sable]

what?

[fast pagoda]

if you have this:

# fart.py <- filename 
print("i always run") #will always show

if __name__ == "__main__":
    print("only runs when fart is *the* entry point")

[opaque sigil]

python my beloved