programming

[unkempt citrus]

so disabling the timer fixed it

but the timer was supposed to keep it in sync??

But was actually causing desync??

Oh well time to move on now

[gritty dust]

That must've been a long 6 months my condolences

[stark needle]

@viral oasis wtf did i wake up to

[hoary lion]

good morning lilac

[tight tinsel]

good morning shadow

[hoary lion]

no, now lilac embraced true light

no more shadow

[gritty dust]

Imagine waking up

[ruby timber]

[stark needle]

i accidentaly put discord on light mode

oops

[dense cosmos]

Morning

[gritty dust]

Morning

[hoary lion]

so eepy

hmm

this free perplexity search is cooking

[stark needle]

can't even have human conversation on discord these days

[knotty current]

[maiden geyser]

vro thinks escaping AI is possible

[hoary lion]

im sad

[viral oasis]

hi

[unkempt citrus]

—

—

—

[olive sable]

Goodmorning

[hoary lion]

new person in #programming

welcome

[olive sable]

Ah yes, im a new person

[hoary lion]

not you

you are a super regular

[limpid osprey]

me too, almost

[maiden geyser]

you are not one of us

melt him

[unkempt citrus]

—

[safe path]

wait no that's operator

hi operator

[maiden geyser]

there's something shady going on

[olive sable]

As usual

[olive sable]

Nah she makes ai, guys

[maiden geyser]

first youtube ai thing, then google ai thing, now reddit has russian language for interface

progrev will be so massive once https://intel.com stops redirecting me to https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/ru-banner-inside.html
gallons will be lost

[stark needle]

chargtp

[signal trout]

my favorite punctuation mark... ruined...

[stark needle]

i dont understand chat am i talking to AI or not???

[unkempt citrus]

Bot

[signal trout]

solution: ask what 9+10 is

but also yeah probably a bot

[knotty current]

what does the numbers next to the usernames mean?

[stark needle]

idk level or something

looking into it further it might be somehow a malware bot

they rly want me to download this pdf

[unkempt citrus]

You can report them for self botting

Or malicious links

[stark needle]

im testing the link on virustotal

[olive sable]

This is how to i guess

[stark needle]

meow meow meow meow

[maiden geyser]

meow

[knotty current]

meow meow

[trim valve]

meow

[olive sable]

Meow meow

[vernal summit]

meow meow

[opaque wharf]

Wait, you want to debug the web app on android?

[olive sable]

Yes

Cuz touchscreen support

[opaque wharf]

Oh, the docs are here

https://developer.chrome.com/docs/devtools/remote-debugging

Mozilla has equivalent docs but I forgot where

[hoary lion]

anti eep society

[knotty current]

i like my eep thank u very much

[hoary lion]

no eep for you

[stark needle]

hyper

how low can i get my llm training loss

with lora pretrain

😭

i'm at

2.8

[stark needle]

uoooh i love half cold weather

When u can just go out with a shirt

[olive sable]

I have sxhool now

[viral oasis]

hi

[viral oasis]

[olive sable]

People her be like

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-i-dont-even-know-who-you-are-marvel-gif-15769006

You need to work on your marketing for celeste

[stark needle]

@viral oasis who are you

[inner pike]

What ended up being the result of this ?

[stark needle]

Apparently safe

[dusky jackal]

Sounds like one of my alts, but I don't have an alt in this server.
Yeah, so it definitely wasn't me. Yet.
Just don't worry about it, okay? You are going to be okay.
Everybody here feels this way about you. They always have.
Please just know that you are safe.

[noble zodiac]

I would block that fever dream in a heartbeat

[amber fractal]

Dead

the heart can't live outside of the body

[rigid snow]

[inner pike]

Huh, still very strange honestly

[noble zodiac]

too bad discord doesnt give a shit about their own selfbot rules

[amber fractal]

Classic discord

[trim valve]

flatmates reccomending using chatgpt to revise for my exams

I'd rather eat nails

[amber fractal]

I'd rather also eat nails

[noble zodiac]

its crazy how many actually believe that the stuff coming out of LLMs is accurate

[trim valve]

to be fair the subject doesn't need accuracy

or well maybe it does but

its marketing how many facts do you really have

[noble zodiac]

enough to pass the exam

[ruby timber]

Revizing with an LLM is crazy

[trim valve]

yeah

god I haven't done any real programming in ages

[viral oasis]

I suck at marketing. ;[

[trim valve]

don't worry you have a totaly cracked marketing student right here in chat

(I hate this subject please let me hide in a corner and do cs instead)

[viral oasis]

[trim valve]

just for you, a very informative slide

[viral oasis]

very late hoi

[trim valve]

honestly each time I see the words "celeste ai" my brain goes to an ai playing celeste

[viral oasis]

i get that often

[trim valve]

i wonder how hard that would actually be

[viral oasis]

I should do that for april fools

[trim valve]

it feels like a game that can be reduced down to barely anything for an ai

[viral oasis]

Maybe, I did want to experiment with other games.

[trim valve]

but then again I know literally nothing about how to give inputs in a way that's productive for an ai

(other than that I'm always really dubious of people who just send the ai a screenshot, that feels really counterproductive)

[viral oasis]

I mostly want to learn so if I did it' id prob be doing it to find out.

[trim valve]

fair enough

I still need to learn ai stuff in general

I mildly understand the theory but not the actualy implementation

keep diving in too hard and giving up

[viral oasis]

I have very specific knowledge and implementation, I eventually want to understand it a bit deeper.

[noble zodiac]

why understand the implementation when you can just glue libraries together like all the others

[viral oasis]

Because learning (when it works) is fun! [2.6 seconds to push and pop 5 million elements to hashmap]

[trim valve]

when I say implementation I mean using the libraries lol

[noble zodiac]

no, i dont think anyone did. congratulations regardless

[viral oasis]

I did!!

[viral oasis]

!!1

[trim valve]

my motivation to revise keeps going through the floor

what am I supposed to do with this information

[noble zodiac]

whateven is that int he top left

[viral oasis]

lightflash

[noble zodiac]

a hydrogen, the scam of eco friendly cars

[stone cedar]

Looks like a telephoto lens? Not really that futuristic imo, so I might be wrong

[trim valve]

big canon lens

but bigger

[noble zodiac]

Im too poor for that stuff

[trim valve]

oh damn this doesn't look that bad to mod actually

[noble zodiac]

I have a 1973 Olympus 35SP instead

[trim valve]

[trim valve]

at the very least it looks slightly more modular than when I modded terraria

c

[viral oasis]

c

[trim valve]

real

[viral oasis]

[trim valve]

who would've guessed that there's a little bit of scuff involved trying to play celeste over remote desktop

[stark needle]

what am i witnessing

[unreal coral]

Speaking of easy to mod games :0
Anybody here play mindustry? :0

[olive sable]

[olive sable]

Idk tbh

[viral oasis]

affordable prices

[olive sable]

I just got here

[trim valve]

me trying to gague how hard celeste modding is

[olive sable]

Minor typo lmao

[trim valve]

as a way to procrastinate revision

[unreal coral]

Do you need to earn your pic permissions first?
I could have sworn i had them yesterday >.>

(Stay a certain time etc)

[trim valve]

you get embed perms eventually after chatting for a while

[viral oasis]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1199359059753697302/1295647276987056149/image-11.gif

[trim valve]

currently it seems similar to terraria

but obviously celeste is much simpler than terraria

so probably less hellish

[stark needle]

banned

Smh how dare you

[trim valve]

@stark needle hypothetically speaking is there a clever way to show an ai "what" a celeste game state looks like

that isn't just a screenshot

[tight tinsel]

played but quit, no longer fun after being able to shit on every campaign level and pvp didnt appeal to me

i heard its easy af to mod

[stark needle]

how does Celeste work, what kind of game is it

[trim valve]

platformer

https://store.steampowered.com/app/504230/Celeste/

Steam

Celeste

Help Madeline survive her inner demons on her journey to the top of Celeste Mountain, in this super-tight, hand-crafted platformer from the creators of multiplayer classic TowerFall.

• A narrative-driven, single-player adventure like mom used to make, with a charming cast of characters and a touching story of self-discovery
  …

Price

$19.99

Recommendations

107948

Metacritic

88

▶ Play video

[stark needle]

Well

i wouldn't solve this with a llm

but tbh with these sorts of games

Screenshot is probably the best

Minecraft rl also works with screenshot

[viral oasis]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1047754812084715571/1136074733901856870/ED6EFBC5-A68E-48C6-9103-B123B1ECC22D-1.gif

my aplogy

[trim valve]

meh but screenshots feel like you're not acually teaching it to play

[stark needle]

i'm on mobile, nerd

[trim valve]

just memorising the game

[viral oasis]

shutup nerd!!!

[stark needle]

i mean

Ur learning generalized stuff

Cause the agent is supposed to go through the whole game with the same model

[trim valve]

at the very least I'd do a reduced form of the game instead of just screenshotting

[stark needle]

u can convert into black and white

[trim valve]

no not that

[stark needle]

Pixel type graphics

[trim valve]

like render the game w/o textures, use colour to represent object kind

[olive sable]

Aigh, class again

[stark needle]

ye

[olive sable]

Bye

[stark needle]

Pixel type

Let the user be a pixel

And the world be other pixel color blocks

And stuff

[viral oasis]

have fun with class.

[trim valve]

and then the other challenge is actually mapping out what the goal is for each level

because whilst some are plain platforming, there are a few puzzles

though for the sake of avoiding scope creep those could probably be excluded

[olive sable]

I wont

[trim valve]

honestly this just brings up a question I've previously meant to look into more, which is basically "is there a good pathfinding algorithm when you have much more complex movment options than just walking"

because so much of gaming boils down to planning your actions a few seconds in advance

[olive sable]

You mean pathfinding from outside the game engine right?

[trim valve]

yeah I guess

[unreal coral]

Well good news then

V8 comes with 5 difficulty settings for the campaign

On top of the map difficulty

And the mod i'm making is supposed to fix exactly that
Alot of balance changes to healing , walls , repair towers etc
And massively upgraded units

And yea its a dream to mod
I mean its one of the few games i know ofthat actually supports mods on mobile

[trim valve]

like breaking up the level into "just" doing these specific things

[unreal coral]

Ig terraria also counts but the mods for mobile terraria suck

Those are mostly just texture packs and very slight qol changes
Nothing new content wise

[trim valve]

executing this feels like it would just be slightly more complex pathfinding, but generating this path feels really difficult

[unreal coral]

Btw does anybody know of a somewhat usable but free voice cloning ai?

I can deal with ads etc

I just need some voicelines for the mod >.>

And i'll propably train it on smth like the eradicator turrets from prey since those have some cool voices

[trim valve]

I guess you could maybe explore each individual action in a tree-like way similar to stockfish actually

[tight tinsel]

applio

ask superbox if you need help with that

[unreal coral]

Does anybody know the legal aspect of voice cloning ai?
Like lets say i trained it on warhammer 40k material
Would that be copyright?

[trim valve]

tbh if I'm doing that I should probably write a game from scratch instead of trying to bolt it on to an existing game

[unreal coral]

Oh thx ^^

[trim valve]

honestly yeah taking the stockfish approach seems like my best option (beacuse it involves barely any ai )

[noble zodiac]

depends on the jurisdiction, odds are yes and even if not its a despicable moral dickmove without consent

[dense cosmos]

I made a cpu version of my network, because I knew for small networks the latency btw gpu and cpu would be much bigger of a problem

well... it was

the cpu version ran the full generation in like 20 ms

the gpu version takes 4 whole seconds

[trim valve]

classic

[dense cosmos]

cpu version

gpu version

[amber fractal]

[stark needle]

hello

Humans

[gritty dust]

Good morning people

[trim valve]

actually with some more thinking there's so much that goes into decision making for this

[scarlet arch]

Hellooooo #programming

[rough bloom]

Byter

[scarlet arch]

[real sierra]

whatcha guys coding

[dense cosmos]

custom SNN implementation

well, it's done, now I'm working on an evolution algorithm for it

[amber fractal]

I am coding bwaas at lightspeed

[real sierra]

[stark needle]

I'm coding

with a programming language

Sorry no machine code :/

[real sierra]

it's ok

lol

[opaque wharf]

Cryptographic library

[real sierra]

I don't often work with machine code, it's mostly just this one project

but I have to work on it nonstop before my motivation expires

hi

no

I don't know what's happening but the stack is unwinding too far

which doesn't make sense

I swear I've checked the code for correctness so I'm not sure how it's doing this

I can't work on it now anyway

work

[noble zodiac]

are you sure the compiler doesnt mess it up?

[unkempt citrus]

Does it have to be machine code or is assembly fine too

Bit easier to read and debug at least

[rare bramble]

I have been trying to optimize Rav1d (Rust AV1 repo) for the last week straight, I dont I have made even dent in the runtime speed thus far

[real sierra]

I doubt the compiler is messing it up

[real sierra]

it's closer to assembly than machine code that I'm writing

in fact I'd almost say the stack macros put it above assembly

[unkempt citrus]

But I fixed a 6+ month old bug today
Turns out my synchronisation timer was causing it to become desynchronised, but only on Windows, so the solution was to not synchronise at all

[noble zodiac]

you would be suprised. I had to explicitly tell llvm not to use the red zone

but I dont know how many levels up the chain you are so eh

[gaunt charm]

Legally a neural network isn't copying since there is no way to reconstruct the original data.

Your main concern will be terms of service that prohibit you from acquiring/using that data or trademark issues from saying it is x character, which is legally in a gray area if you want to market it.

[real sierra]

you're missing some essential context, sorry
all of this is in a circuit design game where I've engineered a 16 bit processor using the hack architecture
the game has a built-in compiler that lets you specify an assembly language and use it to compile directly into the chip's memory

[unkempt citrus]

Who knew that the best way to synchronise was to not synchronise at all. I don't get USB dev

[real sierra]

so I don't exactly have settings to tweak

[noble zodiac]

its like tis?

[real sierra]

not exactly?

you're laying down individual traces and gates for your chip design

and there aren't levels, it's just a sandbox

[noble zodiac]

either way I'm talking nonsense in that case yea

[opaque wharf]

So... you're making SAT Solver, The Game?

[unkempt citrus]

I did that once for a course few years back. Great fun. Do you at least get to make submodules

[gaunt charm]

Is it maybe trying to waste time on branch prediction or how to allocate it?

[unkempt citrus]

So you re not repeating everything over and over again

[real sierra]

this is something I'm playing not making lol

either way

[unkempt citrus]

So you're playing a CPU emulator

Not making one?

[tender river]

shiro

[unkempt citrus]

Where's the fun in that

[real sierra]

yeah

[tender river]

i just realized

return value

[real sierra]

hi chayleaf

[tender river]

is another free register

[real sierra]

yeah

what

[dense cosmos]

it's more like, the network only has like 5-6 neurons, and there's really no benefit to running that on the gpu

[tender river]

you dont have to only use arguments and d

[real sierra]

the return value is stored at a fixed address in ram

[tender river]

you can just call a function to remember a value without using the stack

[real sierra]

it's not a register

[tender river]

its a register for me

[real sierra]

but yes I see what you mean

[warped narwhal]

so like logisim but as a game?

[real sierra]

I can just call some store_value <x>

[dense cosmos]

I run like, 200 networks, 40 in parallel too

[real sierra]

where it simply returns x

and then push_retval is just a permanent copy

this works great until you have to call another function

actually wait

[stark needle]

100M parameter llm

[real sierra]

what's that one trick for swapping two variables

the xor one

a = a ^ b;
b = a ^ b;
a = a ^ b;

right?

[opaque wharf]

X := Y XOR X;
Y := X XOR Y;
X := Y XOR X;

[real sierra]

I can probably use that to swap the values of A and D register without pushing to the stack

efficiency

in fact I don't think I could swap A and D with the stack anyway

no wait I could

no wait I couldn't

I can't decide

[rough bloom]

When, the correct order is no.
There are other option.

[unkempt citrus]

how about you stop typing on discord and try it

[gaunt charm]

But you run it multiple times? Because gpu shouldn't be thaaaaat slow.

90% must be reserving ram

[dense cosmos]

correct

[royal violet]

Are you trying to make a reasoning model or is it just the training data that contains reasoning steps and its mimicking it ?

[dense cosmos]

nah, I allocate once per network, and the networks stay allocated unless they are killed and regenerated (which happens 20 percent of the time)

[real sierra]

I have a job that I have to go to unfortunately

sad to say my mod salary doesn't pay the bills

[unkempt citrus]

Fair enough

smh vedal exploiting more young souls

Evil and Neuro arent enough for him

[dense cosmos]

I do run it multiple times. about 200 iterations per network, I think

each iteration requires cpu-gpu synchronization

[tender river]

so, assuming theres a function remember 1 and calling it doesnt touch d register () and also assuming i didnt make a mistake yesterday because i'm too lazy to recheck the code

function sqrt 1;
push_value 0
push_value 1
push_arg 0
push_value 1
sub
pop_d
@ cond
if_else_d jge loop exit
@ loop
  push_value 2
  add
  call remember
  push_value 1
  pop_retval
  push_d
  call remember
  pop_d
  push_d
  push_d
  pop_retval
  jmp @cond
@ exit
pop_d
return

[real sierra]

I do wonder if this is actually less expensive than nesting functions?

it keeps the stack smaller for sure

also I don't have a pop_retval, just a push_retval that places the return value on the stack

but I could totally add a pop_retval that places it in the D register

[tender river]

true use push_retval i just woke up

[real sierra]

lmao

I see tho

how much faster do you think this will be

[tender river]

probably not that fast since it still has to call functions and return from them

but a bit faster like maybe 1.5x

or 2x

[real sierra]

it is possible to have a remember macro that doesn't touch the d register, and it's quite fast too:

macro remember{LOAD RETVAL; LR a?}

just skip all the function nonsense and modify the return value slot directly

I think this would speed up your algorithm a lot too

[tender river]

you were hiding this power from me and claiming you nee dmalloc smh

[real sierra]

I need malloc

[stark needle]

This is what the model outputs after training on reasoning from a larger model

[tender river]

the function i wrote above is wrong btw but its close enough

[royal violet]

I have not read on how distills like the qwen 3 0.6B are trained to be reasoning models, i wonder if this is the approach they take or if they do make an intermediate model trained without reasoning first

[real sierra]

chills

you can probably do some crazy optimizations if you work with the bare assembly

[royal violet]

Iirc, you can disable reasoning on that model so its probably the latter approach

[real sierra]

an under-utilized feature of this architecture is that computation results can be written to multiple registers at once

i.e. you can save the results of an instruction to any combination of A, D, and RAM simultaneously

[stark needle]

i'm not using a pretrained model

In this case

This model is pretrained from scratch

[royal violet]

Yeah i noticed, im just wondering how feasible your approach is

Especially at that size

[stark needle]

it's barely feasible

[unkempt citrus]

it also depends on your usecase

if you want to deploy to a production environment

of course its not feasible, but for fun

it might be usable

[royal violet]

Yeah of course, i mean you should not be using a 100M param llm in prod regardless of how good it's made

[stark needle]

it's actually for "production" but with a specific use case

[royal violet]

Oh

[rough bloom]

looks like they use distillation from the larger models for the post-training of the smaller ones
the base models are trained independently though

[royal violet]

Yeah i guessed it would be like this, still that 0.6 is very impressive for its size

Just a little bit more efficiency and we'll soon have llms small enough to be shipped in malware

And smart enough to deal damage and self replicate

The 2026 bonzi buddy remake will be wild

[unreal coral]

Ah ok thx

[stone cedar]

Yeah, this will kill the GPU time

[tender river]

its nonrecursive in the first place with tail recursion

[nocturne olive]

I think your LLM is a bit broken

[tender river]

copyright isnt about data but about artistic expression

if i cosplay as a character and take a selfie its still copyright infringement

but if someone, without knowing of that work, makes literally the exact same character, then the two works have independent copyright

[noble zodiac]

technically yes, whether it holds up in court is a different matter

[tender river]

mhm

[sullen marsh]

time for study

[noble zodiac]

how laws are being applied in reallife somehow often seems to be ignored

[gaunt charm]

Well, yes but kinda no. And it gets into individual works as well.
The simple clear and cut copyright is "did you steal this data" and in that AI is a definitive no.

The wider copyright issue is "are you copying a piece of art so extensively and intentionally that it is a derivative work" and that is a much much higher standard.

[unkempt citrus]

Its more about unlicensed use

than actual copying

[gaunt charm]

In the specific case of training on voice data it isn't a copy period and the voice likely isn't distinctive enough to be an independent copyrightable work, unless you are claiming it is x character voice from x game from x voice actor. Which, don't be an idiot, of course you can't do that (commercially)

Iirc there was some drama about a famous persons voice being recreated for a chatbot.
Didn't matter whether or not it sounded like her, only that it wasn't exclusively trained on her voice to recreate it. (And even then it'd be uncertain if it could be proven that the voice is unique)

[opaque wharf]

Copyright, trademark, and patent are all distinct from each other. Sometimes people confuse one another and hence why it is better to listen to a lawyer if you truly need legal advice/protection

[gaunt charm]

Fair

[opaque wharf]

Yeah, now if we want to discuss what is the legal status, I think it depends a lot on the jurisdiction. I know some countries didn't use the precedence so ruling will be different for every trial

[noble zodiac]

Here is my legal advice: Do you have the funds to sustain a legal battle with whatever company you are dealing with? If the answer is no don't tempt it

Lego sued a company producing those 100 tons concrete blocks for protecting pedestrian zones

is any kid gonna confuse the two and get a concrete block for christmas boosting their sales? no and yet they lost in court to lego

[trim valve]

can I get a concrete block for christmas

[stark needle]

Ye ik

[tender river]

concrete requires lime, gravel, and sand, i would know i play modded factorio

[trim valve]

so is lego

[noble zodiac]

get some duplo

[midnight sigil]

XDFCVGKHBKJVXDT implementing DFT in Blender compositor is frying my brain

and I even set a goal to achieve the Cooley-Tukey FFT algorithm

this is harder than my SSGI in compositor man

summation is so fucking confusing(in the context of Blender compositor)

is it 2D DFT

[stark needle]

WHAT IS THAT MESSAGE

[opaque wharf]

I think some dude named Acerola has an implementation for Unity

Oh, yep. Here is the repo
https://github.com/GarrettGunnell/Water

[opaque wharf]

Imagine if Neuro or Evil

[noble zodiac]

Me mounting 5 linux VM disk images on a single 6th VM having to rename every volume group and then fix 5 different grub and fstab configs

just a typical day at work

[knotty current]

replace the model with opensama and now the smart home has sass

[restive fossil]

man i should really update my gpu setup, right now i'm on a 3060+1050 ti and inference on LM Studio is fine, but I do want better VR performance

i guess i can go team blue/red this generation

[nocturne olive]

And also doesn't know what it's saying because it's not been trained with the appropriate info

[knotty current]

which adds to the entertainment value

[tender river]

i had to do something like that once https://github.com/elitak/nixos-infect/issues/94

[olive sable]

Hello guys

So yall know the 3 door probability thing ye?

[nocturne olive]

Whar is thar

[olive sable]

The monthy hall problem

[nocturne olive]

Never heard of it

[olive sable]

So you have a 1/3 chance to pick the right door

The host opens a wrong door

So the other remaing door gets a chance of 2/3 of being correct

My physics teacher and classmatrs all said it becomes 50/50

NO IT DOESNT

AAAAAÄAAAAAAAH

[nocturne olive]

SoSilly

[midnight sigil]

yea it's counter-intuitive

[olive sable]

Its 2/3 goddamnit

I had a 30min discussion about this in class, and they still think its 50/50

Im so mad

Im actually fumint

[stone cedar]

Yeah, it become 2/3, didn't Mythbusters even make a re-enactment of it and got to roughly the same?

[olive sable]

Im too young for mythbusters

But yes its 2/3

[stone cedar]

Did I just dox my age

[rare bramble]

I have watched an explanation on it so many times and I still dont really understand why the odds change, like i kinda get it, but I still dont get it

[olive sable]

Kinda ye

[olive sable]

The one you chose initialy keeps being 1/3

So the only remaing door is now 2/3

[midnight sigil]

the problem is, they probably don't know the rules

cuz "host will always pick a door with dear" is a big rule

without it the thing will be different

[olive sable]

Nah they knew the host always chooses a wrong door

[rare bramble]

I think it's easier to comprehend if you imagine a billion doors, you pick 1 of them with 1 / billion chance, now you reveal all the other doors except 2, the price is most definitely behind the other door that wasnt opened

it makes more sense to me when I imagine it like that, but 3 doors is kinda hard to comprehend

[olive sable]

This isnt even the worst theyve done. 6 months ago they tried to tell me rockets cant propel themselves without an atmosphere.
YOU'RE WRONG, THE PROPELL PARTICLES

AAAAAAH

this is why he teaches in a middle school and not a university

Sorry for the schizo rant lol

[midnight sigil]

fuck Newton's third law

[olive sable]

But i liked that one

[rough bloom]

I get being confused about the monty hall problem, it's mostly theoretical and just kinda hard to think about imo, but rockets???
do they all believe that nobody was ever on the moon?

like, how do you reconcile the belief that an atmosphere is necessary with the fact that rockets clearly exist and work?

[noble zodiac]

leaving the atmosphere is the most fuel consuming part of the whole thing

[olive sable]

They believe the rocket propelled in earths atmosphere

And just coasted to the moon

[knotty current]

[noble zodiac]

ok, bonus question, then how did they return from the moon

with springs?

[olive sable]

Im so glad i have 3 weeks left woth these clowns

[knotty current]

that went about as well as ACME contraptions LMAO

[noble zodiac]

maybe they were thinking of jet engines?

[knotty current]

i mean there is not a single jet engine capable of reaching the stratosphere

[rough bloom]

tbf the moon does have an atmosphere, the density is just really low

[knotty current]

even then realistically we still need liquid fuel or something else to actually get to orbit

real life is not KSP after all

[noble zodiac]

https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/orbital_mechanics.png

[knotty current]

i felt like neurocord has taught me more than school did this year

[olive sable]

What comes around just goes around this is the sound

[hoary lion]

good morn

[midnight sigil]

jet engines will still work outside the atmosphere, it's just insufficient

it's jet, netherless

[knotty current]

i need to go eep, gn chat

[hoary lion]

no eep society

[knotty current]

i need my eep

[gritty dust]

It fucking works sooo good holy, it can actually detect things well with a better camera that's not 420p yooo

[opaque surge]

https://discord.com/channels/574720535888396288/1379125333466284104

some question about neuro -w-

[nocturne olive]

Neuro's memory is done using assisting systems, not part of the model itself
Neuro is 100% not custom pretrained, only heavily finetuned for being a Twitch streamer, based on some open-source base model

[gritty dust]

I play ksp with real solar system in realistic progression 1 (RP-1), I landed on Mars and stuff with humans, was cool

[maiden geyser]

...2

[olive sable]

android studio has installed kotlin on my pc

[nocturne olive]

Peak

Kotlin is the Android language and by far my favorite language

[olive sable]

i will actually not be using it

[nocturne olive]

Whuh

Did you want Android studio just for an Android emulator or something?

[olive sable]

i just needed to install adb, and that comes in android studio

[nocturne olive]

Silly

[opaque wharf]

Did you use windows? There exists another download page separate from the android studio

[nocturne olive]

Kotlin is peak though

[olive sable]

welp

android studio is already installed now

no going back

[opaque sigil]

https://developer.android.com/tools/releases/platform-tools

[tender river]

it doesnt you can just install platform tools

[opaque sigil]

android studio is gigantic

[maiden geyser]

people used to get jumped for saying shit like this

[opaque sigil]

why keep it around if you don't need it

[tender river]

i implemented this library just to avoid depending on android studio for one little debugging thing https://github.com/chayleaf/android-trace-log

[olive sable]

android studio doesnt have adb?

[tender river]

android studio comes with a sdk installer that can install android sdk or ndk or platform tools for you

[opaque wharf]

Nope

[olive sable]

fuuuck

[tender river]

but you can just install them without android studio

[olive sable]

why would chatgpt lie to me

[tender river]

paid by google

[opaque wharf]

Have you not seen our cute AI overlord?

[olive sable]

i dont watch a lot of neuro

came here for the dev streams

https://tenor.com/view/old-boomer-history-84years-many-years-ago-gif-18534104

[maiden geyser]

imagine watching streams in 2k25

[opaque wharf]

And just as that one person in the other chat was trolling brutally lol

[stark needle]

Chatgpt lies???

WHAT

My openai investment money😭😭😭😭😭

Agi was not real :(((

Advanced Gaslighting Imitator💢 💢 😡

[scarlet arch]

It's not imitating if it's real gaslighting

[olive sable]

at least the adb is working now

[dry charm]

adb should not install android studio

what the fu

[olive sable]

opposite way around

i installed android studio for adb

[dry charm]

Aaaah

[true hemlock]

NEURO SPOTTED
https://youtube.com/shorts/x-m8rhbDd2g?si=10KZSSX8cnndT3V4

idfk how tf am i inside this vid but i got neuro in

[rare bramble]

I love and but dev streams are definitely my favorite, surely we can get a dev stream next monday

[nocturne olive]

[olive sable]

oh

they're recalling haribo here now wapparently

[nocturne olive]

Whar is thar?

[olive sable]

candy

[nocturne olive]

That's crazy

[olive sable]

do yall not have haribo?

[nocturne olive]

No clue

[olive sable]

you know what a gummy bear is right?

[nocturne olive]

Maybe

[rare bramble]

we have haribo in finland

[olive sable]

anyways

they're recalling them cuz of canabis found in them

crazy

[nocturne olive]

Whuh

[olive sable]

ye idk

too bad it isnt halloween rn

[opaque sigil]

how does that even happen

are you getting them from the netherlands

[olive sable]

ye i think so

[dry charm]

damn it, can I have some please, for research purposes

[olive sable]

sure

just go to the netherlands or belgium

[opaque sigil]

i went to the haribo hq as a kid once, it was so fun

[olive sable]

so i have found all the plqatform vzariable savailable to me in the web

the problem is that the console overflowwed

hopefully theres something like 'tablet' here

look at all this yummy metadata

[gritty dust]

You're cooked

[olive sable]

target spotted

most of this seems to be emscripten/webgl stuff

but i can get device orientation and cool stuff like that from here
'screen', 'screenLeft', 'screenOrientation', 'screenTop', 'screenX', 'screenY'

[gritty dust]

niceee

[opaque sigil]

i'd trust it more if you were using a logitech controller

[gritty dust]

... Titan sub be like

[olive sable]

tiny house constructiuon located at 5...

did you dox yourself?

[gritty dust]

Shhhh

Whoops lol

[olive sable]

that adress is going into the blackmail folder

im joking btw

[gritty dust]

Loll

Fixed lol

[olive sable]

[gritty dust]

[olive sable]

i may or may not be going through your town on google maps streetview

[gritty dust]

Om

10/10 ice cream shops btw

[olive sable]

not too shabby

[gritty dust]

[olive sable]

too bad im never gonna visit

[gritty dust]

Damn bro sadge

[olive sable]

The only issue left is these pups on mobile saying something broke

cuz it didnt broke

its actually working prett well now

its beating python so who cares that it isnt beating rust yet?

[opaque wharf]

Have you seen strager video? He made a perfect hash table in C++ and it beats rust

[olive sable]

is a foldable a phone or a tablet?
or does it switch inbetween the 2 when folding?

i mean like what google reports to my program, not the definition

[dry charm]

I found it why Kotlin coroutines are a must.

[opaque wharf]

Found the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMQ_HcNSOAI

[opaque sigil]

he made a perfect hash table for one very very specific scenario

you can't compare that lol

[opaque wharf]

He has assumption about the data, yes. Is the data inserted into the hashmap on his case truly random?

[opaque sigil]

comparing a hash table that makes assumptions about the data that is going to be stored within against one that doesn't is kind of pointless

is a nice showcase of how much you can gain for making assumptions though

[opaque wharf]

Look, I don't know the problem that the other dude is trying to solve. But the step that strager take applies when processing data in general

[opaque sigil]

fair

that's a good video though yeah, would recommend

[opaque wharf]

Yeah, and looking at that video again reminds me of the old PHP days when string length is indeed being used as an index.

[opaque sigil]

(also for some context konii is working on a general purpose hash table for a stdlib so can't make too many assumptions sadly)

[opaque wharf]

Ahhh, then yeah, making hash table ahead of time is not possible and collision is a part of the assumption

[stark needle]

google colab should rly put a cache

between pip and the instances

cause the same n packages are constantly downloaded

[opaque sigil]

[steel mesa]

OOBE\BYPASSNRO my beloved 🥰

[ruby timber]

I like switching code editors every two months

This time it's zed

as long as they have vim support

I still have to try emacs evil mode

[stark needle]

hii ash

[ruby timber]

!!! shadow's alt ego is here

[opaque sigil]

zed is nice but extensions being in rust means there's just not that many unfortunately
And I guess it doesn't quite work under wsl yet but that'll be solved soon enough I'm sure

[ruby timber]

Yeah the biggest downside so far is the lack of extensions

[stark needle]

ye

[ruby timber]

Oooh and wsl is something else yeah
Last time I wanted to try it I think they didn't even have a windows client

[opaque sigil]

You have to compile it from source for windows but even then it's far from perfect

[stark needle]

i hate compiling stuff from source for windows

[opaque sigil]

You can definitely tell that it was made for macOS and linux primarily

It's fine for rust

Usually

[ruby timber]

I seeeee

[ruby timber]

not the floating point precision

[ruby timber]

yeah-

[opaque wharf]

Did you not use the same code for both platform?

[opaque sigil]

You can technically connect to wsl via ssh and that works

[trim valve]

@stark needle why are shadow and light different quantities

[opaque sigil]

But paths get fucked up

it's been a while since I last tried tbf maybe they've improved it

I know they have their headless server now sort of which is nice

[stark needle]

it happens

[opaque wharf]

Did you code in assembly? If yes, then understandable (especially considering you are after highly optimized solution). But you can cross-compile on C, so technically one code can be compiled to different target

[hoary lion]

Niuh

[opaque sigil]

Why's the print target specific actually

Or is it the data that's being printed that's different

Ah

Got it

windows target when

[tender river]

i dont think anyone cares about that but its there in the compiler, probably not that much work (you just have to use the correct image format) but who would use it

[trim valve]

can I pretend that phase does not exist

[opaque sigil]

Makes sense

[tender river]

have you tried changing step to 1 again?

probably still not worth it

i keep winning

swisstables are very hash sensitive but i guess changing step size alleviates that

google just wrapped the default hasher with their own in their impl i think to make all hashes good

it would be best if step size = 1 worked since thats the easiest to optimize further, but i guess the hashing problem needs to be solved for that

[nocturne olive]

I wonder when I should reboot

56 days is an average uptime, right?

[tender river]

please reboot more often unless you want kernel exploits

[stone cedar]

If it's windows, don't bother. Microsoft will reboot it for you when you least expect it ;)

[nocturne olive]

(I deleted the reboot scripts)

[nocturne olive]

Whuh

Haven't heard of any important vulnerabilities recently

[tender river]

no

[nocturne olive]

I'll probably reboot at some point I guess
And try to get the RAM to 4000 MT/s

RAM SMOL?

[faint sandal]

all for rendering photos of anime women

[opaque wharf]

Man, I need to sleep. Anyway, good luck optimizing the hash map. Also since you are developing cross platform, do take in mind that different ISA will have different performance for the same algorithm implementation. And also the clock cycle for instruction does not tell the whole story

[hoary lion]

@stark needle what is happening to your name

why did google removed cache search feature

it is like the only reason why i was selling my soul to them

[tender river]

yeah crypto is super easy to get wrong

you mistype a 36 digit long number bam your impl is now broken

clearly must use bad hash for optimal performance

i tried making it do more batched reads but it didnt really help no matter what i did, i'm surprised it isnt slower though

i even did stupid stuff like precompute 8 shifts of short_hash, which ended up making performance worse

probably because it forces stack to be used rather than registers, or something

havent looked at a single line of assembly in the process of working on this

note that i also did this

Meta := union{.i: uint; .b: [8]u8}

HashMap := fn($K: type, $V: type, $A: type, $H: type): type return struct {
    .metadata: ^u8;
    .metadata2: ^Meta;

and made metadata be set to the same value as metadata2 for old code to work

it looks like there arent big improvements lying around without compiler improvements

well, except for evil stack overrun to arbitrary code of course

[tender river]

maybe if there was a way to do the comparisons faster...

like i tried doing meta.b[j], still no dice

also removing the entire hashmap only takes a second so its hard to benchmark

with the variance being around 100ms

actually what does hashbrown do (probably simd )

it uses quadratic probing apparently

it does

probably depends on autovectorization?

the other approach is this which is fairly easy actually

n & 0x8080808080808080

but, you need to be able to find the trailing one or something

you need to be able to find the lowest 1 bit in the integer

and then we have to write an order of magnitude more code and we suffer

okay i give up on sleeping this night i wanted to "fix" my sleep schedule (enough to go to sleep after neuro streams) but i think the more realistic option is staying awake (now that i have neuro stream as motivation i wont go to sleep before then i think)

zig is easier to translate to

since hblang is basically zig

if you want C it makes sense to specialize to ints only since thats what you're benchmarking anyway

[gaunt charm]

I cry every day looking at Nvidia 5080 specs

wanted to get the text in the reply instead of the emote. 😔

[tender river]

also i have a useless and pointless but doable optimization for you - replace two allocations with one

meta at the start and the rest after it, or vice versa

yeah

it does technically help but who is gonna use like a billion hashmaps for it to matter anyway

[trim valve]

real

[tender river]

the thing is it doesnt save memory but it does theoretically help with fragmentation

and make the allocator use like 8-16 less bytes for tracking allocations

[stark needle]

Wjo pinged me I'm lazy to scroll up

[opaque sigil]

There's quite literally an inbox that lists your pings

[stark needle]

I'm a complex mixture

[stark needle]

where

[opaque sigil]

Top right on desktop, bottom on mobile

[stark needle]

Doesn't that just show global role pings

[opaque sigil]

nuh uh

i don't think rehash should but remove probably should

imo

[tender river]

what about returning it

i'm always right

[opaque sigil]

[tender river]

in rehash you dont have to deal with it because you just copy the bytes

all you need to do is not be C++ and not have move constructors

yup

does deinit free pointers?

thats maybe a deinit api issue

oh but pointer.deinit() wont compile so its fine i think

unless v is a pointer, right

wait wait

if T is a pointer type

then T.deinit wont exist

well, i guess you can just add a check that doesnt run deinit if its a pointer

thats surely the only special case where deinit exists on a type not explicitly declaring it

(thats why implicit dereferences can be dangerous, oh well)

yup

or create a wrapper

yes but that doesnt mean (^T).deinit is a thing does it

it means T.deinit takes a pointer

i was in fact right

this doesnt compile

and @compiles((^A).whatever) returns false

[tender river]

i will now break the universe

i'm sometimes wrong

the laws of logic forbid me from existing, goodbye

[real sierra]

low level code

oh wait it's just rust

nvm

wait is it?

[trim valve]

probably hblang

[pulsar thistle]

Does anyone here know anything about pygame

[trim valve]

depends, a couple people probably do

[pulsar thistle]

Ok

I don’t have well functioning computer so I can’t download anything on it so I’m stuck using codehs for pygame. But when I try using audio files it just sends a link instead of the audio

[trim valve]

could you show your code? (throw it into a site like mystb.in)

[pulsar thistle]

I can try

[tender river]

its hblang

[real sierra]

I swear you're the only people I've ever seen using hblang

[tender river]

true!

[unkempt citrus]

I thought it was a custom built language

[real sierra]

if it's on a website use JavaScript, otherwise if it doesn't need to be fast use python, otherwise use rust

do you really need anything else

[tender river]

thats because konii recruited me into her cult

[unkempt citrus]

Use wasm and cut out the js

[real sierra]

use wasm and cut out your eyeballs

I'm not staring at that all day

[unkempt citrus]

Also I hate dynamic typing

[real sierra]

actually I say that but I've been writing assembly for the last few days

[tender river]

anyway https://git.ablecorp.eu/mlokis/hblang

[tender river]

wasm is mostly a compilation target

[real sierra]

oh thank god

[desert wave]

Try ot the examples

[tender river]

want to point out more? go on you'll be here all day

[opaque sigil]

that's how you know the language is good

[real sierra]

prompt injecting Google AI?

oops, looks like it tried to say something it wasn't supposed to

chills

[brazen solar]

so heres a fun question - if i wanted to record an RGB value in gpu memory, how computationally expensive would it be to take the MSB of each RGB value, multiply it into a single digit, and writeback a position/vector/object value to the same address space later?

[real sierra]

[brazen solar]

Reason behind that would be to simplify the image, group pixels of relatively similar values, categorize each group as a different object, generate a simple vector outline of each object, and then compare frame by frame to determine motion between lists of closely matching objects

[warped narwhal]

you might want to look into convolution filters, as they can do this much better (at least in terms of edge detection

[brazen solar]

CNNs basically?

[warped narwhal]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel_(image_processing) wikipedia has one for edge detection

[warped narwhal]

oh no, nothing that complicated, just an image kernel

aka "take the surrounding 8 pixels, multiply them by the given numbers, divide by 9 and set this pixel as the result"

[brazen solar]

Ahh, now that I think about it, that's a lot faster than trying to do every pixel, even with the color values severely truncated

Although I was thinking about ways to implement fast tracking of lots of things, and being able to build up object permanence / position tracking

Although my programming skills are basically "Hello World" with a Heathkit

[real sierra]

[maiden geyser]

ff374f727ce9d6de93be0793733c321

[knotty current]

morbing #programming

neuroWaveA

[olive sable]

its 3am

[gritty dust]

sleep bro

[olive sable]

i have slept

[gritty dust]

uhhh

... damn

[olive sable]

i slept like an hour or 4

i got work to do now tho

[opaque wharf]

That range is wild

[gritty dust]

programming time

[olive sable]

no, sadly not

[opaque wharf]

In the context of hours slept

[knotty current]

its 8 AM here

[olive sable]

[gritty dust]

its 9pm here

[opaque wharf]

Oh, you're in the same timezone as me

[knotty current]

damn the timezones

[gritty dust]

ohhh canada lol

[knotty current]

wdym, im in asia

[gritty dust]

im talking about me lol

[knotty current]

oh

[gritty dust]

my code isnt working anymore... I hate vision ai now

[knotty current]

ai slop 55% time doesnt work

[gritty dust]

its yolo ya dummy, custom trained and custom pain

[opaque wharf]

If your model is not invariant to lighting, rotation, and translation then you're cooked

[knotty current]

45% it works but have no idea why and changing anything breaks XD

[knotty current]

oh wait mb

[gritty dust]

I added that, I mean my coordinate system to gather the position of objects and translate that some how to something a robot arm can do to pick that up...

because yolo being a mean guy rn

[opaque wharf]

Did you use a controlled light environment?

[gritty dust]

yeah it detects it... kinda, im using a old windows 7 laptop tho to run it lol

[opaque wharf]

Oh, does not work as in throwing error and not in the sense that it stopped detecting?

[gritty dust]

more so yeah it randomly stops detecting it, my code requires a stable detection of like 4 seconds to confirm its an actual puck incase of misdetections... and my laptop can barely run it so its not working

(the puck is the thing the robot arm is trying to pick up btw)

[opaque wharf]

Yeah, I've seen your setup. Just like my old mechatronics assignment. From my experience, the main culprit is usually the light condition. Also, you are better off using image processing for simple object. Only use YOLO when needing to detect actually complex object

If you want it to be consistent, install a consistent light source that will be unobstructed. Usually that does the trick

[gritty dust]

yes ma'am

[opaque wharf]

But yeah, do check it first if it is the light condition or not since you're using YOLO.

[gritty dust]

Im using yolo since there are multiple objects it has to detect and stuff, I can shine a massive light to keep it consistent, I think my teacher has a old broken flashlight I can steal the LED from and hook up to a battery

[opaque wharf]

Yeah, the pucks are in different color right? YOLO is a bit overkill IMHO. BUT, if the target is an actual object later, then maybe yeah, having setup YOLO may be beneficial for the long run

[gritty dust]

its not just pucks, its tennis balls and other objects

[opaque wharf]

Ahh alright

[gritty dust]

its due in a week and a half im cooked

I have most of the code done I think, I could maybe try running a contrast corrector and run each image through that before sending it to the yolo model to get its detection?

[opaque wharf]

Do you need an object that is not on the YOLO dataset? If not, that is plenty of time, don't worry

[gritty dust]

my data set is 6k images, 2k of each object I need

its just debugging code and stuff

[opaque wharf]

Yeah, that would help. It should be tolerant to brightness variant to a certain degree. But in general it helps if the light stay consistent

[opaque wharf]

Oh, so you do fine-tuning. Then yeah, a bit worrying

[gritty dust]

time to use a flashlight and dangle it from the ceiling lol

[gritty dust]

Its not working my code... I have 40 errors, Ill fix it tomorrow

a wise man once said

[olive sable]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-look-gary-there-i-am-that's-me-i'm-on-tv-on-tv-gif-5838881544199682423

[gritty dust]

[olive sable]

im currently writing an interview about fictional characters in a book i only read 50 pages of

[amber fractal]

[olive sable]

i have 2 hours left to complete this

[gritty dust]

time for spark notes

[olive sable]

chatgpt is my friend

[gritty dust]

om

[amber fractal]

fair usage of chatgpt

[olive sable]

i do genuinly like the book, its jsut that i havent had any time to read it

[gritty dust]

fair tbh

[olive sable]

the underlying themes are a bit dark but its quite funny

[gritty dust]

I think for my class i spark noted like half the stuff for books.. because I was too busy coding

[olive sable]

the book is called "In the Lives of Puppets" i think

[tender river]

in school i just used websites that summarize the book

no AI necessary

[gritty dust]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1059569601144442911/1377813915974500382/image0.gif

[tender river]

is not being in school old?

[olive sable]

it can be i guess

[tender river]

or is not having used AI in scohol old

[gritty dust]

that lol

[tender river]

anyway when a cashier sold me alcohol without checking my ID i died a little inside

[gritty dust]

[knotty current]

is it just me that hates emojis in code in this chat?

or is it a universally hated thing?

[gritty dust]

emojis... in code???? wtf

nahh

thats weirddd 😭

[opaque wharf]

...what?

[knotty current]

and the more annoying thing is that the emojis are ADDED madge

[olive sable]

[opaque wharf]

const hello = 'Hello ![neuroHypers](https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1135051812722982922.webp?size=128 "neuroHypers") !'

[gritty dust]

I sometimes comment and say "good luck optimizing this :)"

[opaque wharf]

HOW DID YOU EVEN DO IT?

[knotty current]

so when i compare the codebases it ends up being 55% emojis being different

[opaque wharf]

Oh, I thought you were talking about emoji in discord chat code block

[knotty current]

emojis in an actual codebase

[gritty dust]

thats some psycho stuff bro

[opaque wharf]

Yeah, that would be a nightmare

[loud thicket]

you monster

[knotty current]

and some of the logging statements are so hilariously overengineered that they rival terminal graphics XD

[knotty current]

not mine, someone else

[loud thicket]

"LGTM"

https://tenor.com/view/lgtm-looks-good-to-me-software-engineering-software-engineering-gif-10905130715192233131

[knotty current]

XD

[amber fractal]

Death, only for strings that use emoji otherwise do not use those in comments

[olive sable]

what about emoticons

uwu

[loud thicket]

https://tenor.com/view/wolf-angry-scare-gif-5183071

[gritty dust]

I use those a lot in my code

[amber fractal]

those are fine

[loud thicket]

hence python

[amber fractal]

😔 is not alright to be using

[knotty current]

i got forced to configure a UTF-8 locale when i only wanted to stick with ASCII only because the logs contained emojis

[amber fractal]

[opaque wharf]

Bro, why do you need ASCII only...

[knotty current]

cuz a, ima lazy, and b, its lighter

[loud thicket]

https://tenor.com/view/ascii-gif-27392147

[opaque wharf]

Understandable

[knotty current]

also the codebase comments are entirely in chinese

[gritty dust]

OOOHH guys my teacher has to read my code, do I comment it all in chinese or something stupid?

[loud thicket]

zalgo

[opaque wharf]

Honestly, that's fine

Comment in chinese if the person in chinese just means computer is working for everyone around the world

[gritty dust]

peak

[opaque wharf]

But THIS is not fine

[loud thicket]

that is actually compilable swift

[knotty current]

InabaWhy

[loud thicket]

swift is the only language i know off the top of my head that lets u code like that

[knotty current]

i mean those emojis are valid UTF-8 characters

[opaque wharf]

I mean, any language that allows UTF-8 for identifier should theoretically allow that behavior

[loud thicket]

https://www.emojicode.org/

this person is going to hell

Bubble sort

[knotty current]

unreadable

[tender river]

******** languages usually use XID_Start and XID_Continue unicode classes (is that the right word?) for determining what characters identifiers are allowed to start and continue with, and i dont think emojis are in there

[knotty current]

[opaque wharf]

As in programming language. Unless otherwise noted in the spec, if the spec only said "identifier must be a valid utf-8 byte sequence", then even whitespace could be allowed. That's why if you want to know a language could use emoji as identifier, just take a look at the spec

[tender river]

yes these are character classes, or properties

[tender river]

note that identifier and how it's represented in source code are technically different things, like a string "a\n" doesn't actually contain a backslash

[opaque wharf]

I know. What i mean by identifier is like variable name. For a programming language, unless the spec said otherwise, the internal representation for identifier doesn't usually care about how the identifier is named. Just that it has a name

This is what I mean by identifier
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identifier_(computer_languages)

And about the string escape character (the "\") is also another matter entirely

[tender river]

it isnt, because there can be similar syntax for identifiers

[opaque wharf]

There could be, yeah. But then again, most compiler or interpreter doesn't care about the specific value

[queen ginkgo]

"none of it worked but boy it was beautiful"
Vibe Coding in a shellnut.
Also "none of it worked but it was beautiful" could also describe sanding your tires to get rid of the grooves. It'll look nicer, but boy will you regret it.

[tender river]

mhm caring about it is the job of the parser

[maiden geyser]

there's something wrong with this piet

[loud thicket]

@scarlet arch (not mine)

[opaque wharf]

Exactly. After parsing, there is not difference between ' ' and 0x20

[knotty current]

[hoary lion]

maybe i should start low level langs

[maiden geyser]

saying it as if there are more than 1

[hoary lion]

what

assembly?

not going to go in that hellhole

[tender river]

theres a billion of low level languages but its hard to define low level language because you can do high level or low level programming in most languages

its more useful to learn different programming paradigms and apply them in any language

[hoary lion]

ooh thats cool

mainly what might they be?

[knotty current]

because even though python uses an inteperter, it can do low level

i have seen python code doing system calls

i wrote code before that creates virtual input devices at kernel level using python

[hoary lion]

Kernel??

like, manually made ffi?

[opaque sigil]

there do be having bindings for everything

[tender river]

message passing (smalltalk/erlang), imperative (C/Python), functional (Scheme/ML/Haskell/Idris/a billion research languages cause functional languages are easy to reason about), logic programming (this one is not as immediatley useful but knowing how datalog and prolog work can be very useful since a lot of stuff is just computing more data from some input data which is basically what datalog does), stack-based programming (assembly and forth), metaprogramming (mostly lisp but also most languages have some metaprogramming facilities)

[knotty current]

yes, python bidings for everything

lmao hyprland has a python sdk for me to screw around with

[tender river]

but most languages offer some kind of mix, like java is imperative + message passing (oop)