https://moxfield.com/decks/y0Q-5y-ym02eAdEYdIov-Q
the deck has been made and I've played it on tabletop a few times, but its almost underwhelming compared to my other mutate deck, the main idea is trying to combo off with Mothra, but its just a bit slow and I think I'm failing in card draw potential, I've been told by my brother its not very good but didn't get any extra feedback other then that. just ideas for cards I might switch out and what I'm missing would be greatly appreciated
#Might need some help with Biollante
342 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)
most of the time I have tags for my decks but im yet to get around to it this time, will add some later
alright i will check it out
:0
okay i am back with this, some interesting nice cards in the deck
i think there are better cards than [[migration path]] , in general a deck that plays cultivates can go for kodama's reach as well
is it weird to have diabolic tutor when you also have the intent tutor 😅
more curious what you want to search
[[damn]] in general do more than wrath of god
unless you want thematic and iconic card name
removal upgrades are also easy since there are better disenchant and heartless act, but there will do the job just fine 8/10 times
i am not sure what the set up is
[[auspicious starrix]] dont fit the deck too well from the looks of it
Creature — Elk Beast
Mutate 
(If you cast this spell for its mutate cost, put it over or under target non-Human creature you own. They mutate into the creature on top plus all abilities from under it.)
Whenever this creature mutates, exile cards from the top of your library until you exile X permanent cards, where X is the number of times this creature has mutated. Put those permanent cards onto the battlefield.
6/6
0 power are nice so i think you can use [[arboreal grazer]]
idk whats the point of [[soulstone sanctuary]] cool card but its a human
need things to get that mutate going so i think you want those creature ramp. that is no later than T2 or as low as
cost
[[krosan wayfar]]
ofc the original doesnt say human on it
errata'ed only to get nerfed
idk if you need Sad golem. but its not a bad creature
anything that lets you mutate [[migratory greathorn]] by T3 would be nice
Creature — Beast
Mutate 
(If you cast this spell for its mutate cost, put it over or under target non-Human creature you own. They mutate into the creature on top plus all abilities from under it.)
Whenever this creature mutates, search your library for a basic land card, put it onto the battlefield tapped, then shuffle.
3/4
while there are many things i can see being added to the deck, its hard to know what you aer willing to cut
the list is unfocused without a clear build path
[[compy swarm]] looks like a pet card
its not bad, but it needs things to happen, which the deck is not always going to do
hmmm is this human [[sengir autocrat]]
the serf tokens can be mutated onto and as long as the top isnt the token, it will not exile it
nice with aristocrat sac for 4 body from a single card, but i dont really like 4 mana cost in this case
[[avenger of zendikar]] aleways makes lot of tokens
5 power takes up half the 10 total tho
i would still go for it if i want value on the board
same problme with [[abhorrent overlord]] if want to make many creatures at once
Abhorrent Overlord <:mana5:292901508796645386><:manab:292901508872273920><:manab:292901508872273920>
Creature — Demon
Flying
When this creature enters, create a number of 1/1 black Harpy creature tokens with flying equal to your devotion to black. (Each
in the mana costs of permanents you control counts toward your devotion to black.)
At the beginning of your upkeep, sacrifice a creature.
6/6
but i think they are nice with [[mirkwood bat]] if you want drain combo
[[buried alive]]
[[solemn]]
Multiple cards match “solemn”, can you be more specific?
thats so true, It didnt click that it was also human ngl
is 100% just a pet card, really want a deck to put it in, but not against giving it the cut and waiting for another to put it in
just one of the top end mutate pieces really, gets extra random stuff when it mutates, but a bit expensive for the deck also
I find myself enjoying the 4 mana ramp spells, get a t2 ramp into a t3 migration path, but if its the only ramp piece in hand it is clunky for sure
as for the reasoning for some of the cards that might not make sense, its all cards I own in my collection, or recent pulls from packs and such, so making cuts and seeing what cards I would need is always nice, as for the what im looking for with tutors
its mostly mothra and the handful of cards that I put in to try and combo with it (im more of a big stompy player and dont play combo, so I thought it could be fun)
ima be real I gave up hope anyone looked at this and was about to just try and make another post, glad you gave some recommendations as Id really like to have this deck work
some token makers are a surprisingly good idea I didn't think much about also
the only things I really refuse to cut are some of these, for the most part everything else is fair game if needed
sorry for the many pings, I just wanted to make sure you knew what was connected to what when I try to respond
a good point for sure also, but I got a cool art for wrath of god I wanted to use lol
not the first cut but is a potential cut
missing the 3 card infinite with the moth
dont need to cut a single one of those imo
did I not get it right? it dies, comes back with a -1/-1 counter, dies and comes back with a flying counter, and just does it over and over cycling between the counters no?
at least with that one, I had a few cards that kinda worked similar to that
[[solemnity]]
this one tho [[$solemnity]]
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i dont really recommander much
the power is there
but it isnt the most fun for me
would it still be worth when I have cards that want some counters?
also fair enough, mothra / broodmoth is just my favorite card and ive never really done much with it, so I kinda wanted to try some of the combos
i guess you wouldnt want to cut the mechagozilla?
but if it ends up just being anti fun perhaps I need to rethink it
if it was 2 mana i would have kept it
I could cut it, its just there to be funny and a solid thing to mutate on with all the counters it gets
2 mana or lower utility creature (ideally non human)
3 mana ramp or set up
then go from there with some sort of combo or fun styff
stuff
not the end but I would have to take this out also most likely if I waned solemnity
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it is not a cheap$ card
I have 2 copys of it, brother traded me his extras when he opened alot of it
really fun and powerful
super cool card, ive had them sitting in my binder for ages (I guess not that long but still)
it is a draw/self mill engine, may not need it for this deck, but it doesnt hurt to keep atm
at the very least, it is probably on par with [[phyrexian arena]]
the only thing I dont own from the list of cards is the basic lands, those things expensive so I got a proxy set of them
the plains are like 25 usd each
but so cute
i am more toward [[out of the tomb]] because it is always the same thing instead of someone making the choice for me
Enchantment
At the beginning of your upkeep, put two eon counters on this enchantment, then mill cards equal to the number of eon counters on it.
If you would draw a card while your library has no cards in it, instead return a creature card from your graveyard to the battlefield. If you can't, you lose the game.
[[$out of the tomb]] but it is only from that universe beyond precon
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Warhammer 40,000 Commander
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oooo I like that
i just happens to own it so i play that instead
ive only really seen the tyranids from the precon I have (a bit sad with how weak some of them seem keeping the box commander)
nice for filling the grave to reanimate with other things
the replacement for deck out basically doesnt happen if you are not doing other self mill
tyranids arent bad
interesting against mill decks tho, cant be fully milled
some precon just plays slow
yeah they are not the worst thing ive played, but having a 6 mana commander that cant really hit anything without extra work is rough
and the card draw is kinda weak from what ive seen with him
[[The Swarmlord]]
yeah i wouldnt pay that much for a card, definite not a basic
the two mini humans at the bottom right
the other 2 are a bit less, but its still 15 per for the swamp and forest
I didnt even see them :0
some things can enter with counter and immediately get sac for value; while the commander gets bigger but more counters without evasion is awkward. thats what the precon didnt have
i thought they were flowers at first
didnt end up sacrificing much really either, but the card is cool so I kept it as the commander of the other one people run (just looked like a human from what I remember)
[[Magus Lucea Kane]]
Legendary Creature — Human Tyranid Wizard
Spiritual Leader — At the beginning of combat on your turn, put a +1/+1 counter on target creature.
Psychic Stimulus —
: Add 
. When you next cast a spell with
in its mana cost or activate an ability with
in its activation cost this turn, copy that spell or ability. You may choose new targets for the copy. (A copy of a permanent spell becomes a token.)
1/1
they are
its nice because the commander doesnt automatically give you a win con so the deck makes the player works for it
Damn I'm late to this discussion
Hello there Graveyard player!
Rule 1 for Mutate: Ditch ALL of your humans
honestly
The only human I run in mine is [[Eternal Witness]] and I've even she's annoying since I can't mutate on her
[[Skullwinder]] is a great 2nd return engine though
The big issue that Mutate has, is that we're putting all of our "eggs" in one basket
BUT
since we're in green, we can work around that. I introduce to you: HEXPROOF TROLLS!
[Troll Ascetic]]
[[Thrun, the Last Troll]]
[[Guardian Augmenter]]
and, she ain't a troll, but she still trolls, [[Sigarda, Host of Herons]]
How the Starrix is the reason why we build the deck to be mostly non-instant and non-sorceries
Being able to cheat big things in is amazing, especially if they're stuff like [[Zendikar Resurgent]]
Zendikar Resurgent <:mana5:292901508796645386><:manag:292901508654301185><:manag:292901508654301185>
Enchantment
Whenever you tap a land for mana, add one mana of any type that land produced. (The types of mana are white, blue, black, red, green, and colorless.)
Whenever you cast a creature spell, draw a card.
having effects that trigger to draw whenever we cast creatures is even better in this deck as they trigger on mutate
[[Season of Growth]]
are both exceptionally strong
I'm going to write up my deck list just now and I'll send it across
btw [[Grist, the Hunger Tide]] is a stroke of genius in this list, I salute you sir
Legendary Planeswalker — Grist
As long as Grist isn't on the battlefield, it's a 1/1 Insect creature in addition to its other types.
+1: Create a 1/1 black and green Insect creature token, then mill a card. If an Insect card was milled this way, put a loyalty counter on Grist and repeat this process.
−2: You may sacrifice a creature. When you do, destroy target creature or planeswalker.
−5: Each opponent loses life equal to the number of creature cards in your graveyard.
Loyalty: 3
ok so looking over my deck and thinking about a few other things, I really can't stress enough how important it is to protect your turn when you're going to cast your commander. It's similar to trying to resolve something like [[Zacama]]
the other route is adding more graveyard filling effects, like [[Golgari Grave-Troll]]
Creature — Troll Skeleton
This creature enters with a +1/+1 counter on it for each creature card in your graveyard.
, Remove a +1/+1 counter from this creature: Regenerate this creature.
Dredge 6 (If you would draw a card, you may mill six cards instead. If you do, return this card from your graveyard to your hand.)
0/0
and [[Underrealm Lich]]
dredge effects in general are very effective in this list
I love grist, one of my favorite characters
not really sure how I feel about dredge as Ive never played with it much before, but its not a bad idea to add some
and while I do have 6 humans I think I can explain a few of them
this guy is apart of a combo with mothra, remove the counters, sac it and keep doing it
this guy is here just so I can have a sacrifice outlet as I dont have many (I could see removing him but id rather not mutate on him either way
makes a token so I think its fair, also a pinger
is just really good for mana and mill, just unfortunate that its a human
is simply one of my lands, its kinda the only reason its here ngl (extra removal is nice
I cant defend this one, its just a pinger and could go
Im here for the hexproof tho
when I first started mutate (and first started playing actively) I got disgusted looks and active threats when I mutated onto a cheap hexproof creature with [[Ghidorah, king of the cosmos]]
Legendary Creature — Beast Elemental Dinosaur
Mutate 


(If you cast this spell for its mutate cost, put it over or under target non-Human creature you own. They mutate into the creature on top plus all abilities from under it.)
Flying, trample
Whenever this creature mutates, exile cards from the top of your library until you exile a nonland permanent card. Put that card onto the battlefield or into your hand.
6/6
so I had removed them and didnt think about adding them to any mutate lists
but like, I dont even play with those people anymore so I should add some back in fr
skullwinder is fun, I think I have a copy somewhere and need to put it in
season of growth is really cool, you dont get as much of the scry, but the draw every time you mutate is really cool
I think heartless summoning kills alot of my tokens and small creatures, unsure how I feel about it
yeah, i think having more than 1 human per game is a really feel-bad, maybe 5/100 at max? tokens from non creature to mutate on are the best. i am fine with "put eggs in one basket" because this commander can bring back everything from grave from a single cast. so it is more like an mass reanimate spell off a creature spell and semi-etb trigger
if you want to mutate as early as the
drop mark, will need lower cost creatures. or the other way around is to go big
I could see replacing fain and cutthroat, but im unsure about the other ones I listed above
exile cards from the top of your library until you exile X permanent cards i think either i missed something or my vision is very different from yours. by having big drops it increase the value of potential things to cheat out. The deck should have more instant and sorcery though in the case you listed, because you dodge all those non permanent spells anyways. The non-permanent cards will be the lower curve early drops
i too thought of heartless summoning but i didnt mention it because it will kill some of the current "combo" in the deck by removing the drain creature almost instantly
otherwise, i think it is great for the cost reduction "ramp" for heavy creature deck
i really like the draw and hexproof part that works with general mutate. Although i am not too sure which part will this deck be focusing on. I am leaning toward more combowie and aristrocrats
so the commander is more on the side of a "back up" plan when the creatures you need didnt stay around
kinda like a living death in the commander zone
dredge in general is broken; in any format it runs in
is there a new zulaport that isnt human?
skull prophet comes with mill and can tap for mana, so i dont mind that human at all. apprentice is basically a better zulaport as well in this case. the extra creature that is also a non human makes up for it
if you cast a 6 drop, your table just expect you to get nothing out of it and past the turn? I think that's an asshole move in casual commander
illuna seems like a fun top-deck gambling deck
actually, if your commander mutate triggers, you WILL get lot of scry, but all at once
the draw is still the main course and its really good for 2 mana
probably just slightly weaker than [[up the beanstalk]]?
love beanstalk
[[$up the beanstalk]] which shouldnt be too expensive now that it is banned
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it got banned in a format I think somewhat recently
the deck i used to run it in was lowkey GC-less b3. but it can steal my opponents spells so it can go against high power too
yeah
the one (format) that plays it
commander can play anything so it is less seen
if you find a build and have 2 toughness combos
i can see heartless summoning being an absolute gem
until then, it kills too many things so it is a bit hard to fit
need to know where the deck is going to focus on primary and secondary game plan
i havent finished my, but my is all about getting basically the entire grave back to the field as long as i can cast my commander
everything is 0 power in general and gets big only on board
then some loops and recursion + consistent ramp to rinse and repeat
need lot of testing to get the right card ratio
no counter play if i get farewelle'ed
I understand the removal, but there are ways to create the loop without including humans. Overall though, how a mutate pile interacts with persist / undying / flight counters is worse for us in these colours
When a creature mutated with Undying dies, the entire mutated pile comes back to the battlefield as separate creatures, each with a +1/+1 counter. Undying's trigger applies to the entire pile, resulting in each creature being returned individually.
Fain is just not good enough. Non-mana dork creatures with tap abilities (that aren't specifically written as TAP: or TAP A CREATURE:) are typically too slow for commander, especially in colours without haste. You want to have an effect that lets you sacrifice things repeatidly. [[Warren Soultrader]] is Fain's direct superior.
You have a fair number of pingers, we're going to create a loop of death, we don't need THAT many.
This is NOT really good for mana and mill. This does either or. [[Six]], or [[Birds of Paradise]] or [[Deathrite Shaman]] are your superiors
Legendary Creature — Treefolk
Reach
Whenever Six attacks, mill three cards. You may put a land card from among them into your hand.
During your turn, nonland permanent cards in your graveyard have retrace. (You may cast permanent cards from your graveyard by discarding a land card in addition to paying their other costs.)
2/4
I feel like this is stronger in a deck that doesn't normally have access to enchantment removal. But as a land, yeah it's a great slot.
You don't have that many tokens, and you aren't going to win with tokens. Of the creatures that this does kill, it's only about 4 from your current list
OH BUUUUUUUUUT Instead of Heartless Summoning, we can use [[Dazzling Theater]] if we're going down the token route
Enchantment — Room
Creature spells you cast have convoke. (Your creatures can help cast those spells. Each creature you tap while casting a creature spell pays for
or one mana of that creature's color.)
(You may cast either half. That door unlocks on the battlefield. As a sorcery, you may pay the mana cost of a locked door to unlock it.)
Prop Room 

Enchantment — Room
Untap each creature you control during each other player's untap step.
(You may cast either half. That door unlocks on the battlefield. As a sorcery, you may pay the mana cost of a locked door to unlock it.)
agree, i dont see Fain being enough sadly. i think the sac outlet ones that taps for mana might work here
just need to look up their name
there is the old version with multiple art (but all dirt cheap) and the legendary from 40k aritfact precon
not as broken/ combowie as soultrader but the price justify it imo
for optimization, i agree with the swap; for budget, i wouldnt use things over $2-3 dollars if i dont own. hopefully OP has all the cards
my exception is the rakdos colour cards, where i am willing to invest more into upward of $5-7 per card
[[$Six]]
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oh wow he's gone up a fair bit
😭
he? i'm not sure if Six has a gender
[[$Birds of Paradise]]
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creatures are neutral imo
I mean, that thing has had more reprints than lightning bolt
actually, that might not be true
[[$six]]
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gimme bird in a precon and i may someday own one
[[!six]]
well I'm not going to suggest [[Survival of the Fittest]] is price is a concern XD
not enough boobies six is not she confirmed
More wood than boobies, that might be a clue?
but Tree 🤔 and mother nature
this is getting off topic
idk whats OP's budget
i think the initial look at the deck is basically
2-3 part of the deck
all doing seperate things
if it is like 1.5, i can let it go
having at least one thing you can mutate onto by turn 3 or later is important even if a human is in the opening hand
have you played this one yourself, i never got it in a ame
game
i got the blue kraken battle to flip and its the opposite (non creature spell)
i do want a unique convoke deck
white go wide makes up for it nicely as a form of ramp
idk how much we care about the hexproof side of things like [[silhana ledgewalker]]
Creature — Elf Rogue
Hexproof (This creature can't be the target of spells or abilities your opponents control.)
This creature can't be blocked except by creatures with flying.
Street folk call them "spire mice," but behind the mockery is an unspoken envy of the ledgewalkers' skill at avoiding harm.
1/1
Right, I've been able to remake your deck (or my version of it) on brawl
it's pretty slow TBH
so I'd suggest making it with the intention of just playing it in B3 pods
once it gets going though, you can just loop infinite mana and infinite mutate
to be fair, mutate for the most part is super slow, I got my ghidorah deck beating in the 4s, but thats just because I put some crazy solid card in there (and also a free etali is never bad)
im in the middle of something but ill check everything else in just a minute after I finish
i did the cat dino one, it has loops and spell slinging so speed wasnt a problem with that one
but in general, mana cost is high
Yeah the big challenge I'm finding is that most of the mutate things are expensive, so by the time we're mutating off, it's turn 4 at least.
which is why i believe this commander is just there to sit in the commander zone
My Vadrok deck is VERY out of date, but that's the fastest I've been able to make a mutate deck
until the grave is ready
Yeah, when it is ready, being able to loop [[Sidisi, Undead Vizier]] is crazy strong
no [[cheif's kiss]]?
i am disappointed
I don't have the convoke enchantment unlocked in Arena, I'm thinking that would be exceptionally stronger
Why on earth would I need that?
most of Vadrok is blue / white. It's one of the very few spells that require 2 red pips
CR - Rule 115.7a
115.7a If an effect allows a player to “change the target(s)” of a spell or ability, each target can be changed only to another legal target. If a target can’t be changed to another legal target, the original target is unchanged, even if the original target is itself illegal by then. If all the targets aren’t changed to other legal targets, none of them are changed.
hmmm
that's interesting
the mutate shenaigans
I was just using [[Mystic Reflection]]
that's very interesting, normally I'd have a fair number of creatures on the battlefield though
basically an infinitely high stack of THICK vadrok on the table
having just 1 creature is asking for an edict effect
no
you only reselect target on your opponents stuff
it doesnt reselect on your things
I normally have about 6+ Vadroks
but there is nothing to select so it stays on your original target
I mean, that specific combo is looking for just having 1 creature for the combo stack
if you control 10 creatures or 1
I'm not sure if having just 1 would make you randomly select something you own
it doenst matter
just need to reread chiefs kill
kiss
it may not be the best in terms of power
but it is infinite cast and mutate triggers
oh so if we don't have another target in the graveyard, we just draw the game
tricky
oh so it is, it's been a long time since I played it, people didn't like the 30 minute turns XD
i played the deck with [[possibility storm]] as always
Enchantment
Whenever a player casts a spell from their hand, that player exiles it, then exiles cards from the top of their library until they exile a card that shares a card type with it. That player may cast that card without paying its mana cost. Then they put all cards exiled with this enchantment on the bottom of their library in a random order.
No.
Possibility storm is extremely boring to play against
my was jank storm
it just massively extends games
i had battles in the 99
and thousand year storm
it s usually not the biggest problem in terms of game length because
it only stays on board for so long
you can say, i am the problem for bringing those into the game [[fate shared]]
Oh, Vadrok can use both convoke enablers...
: This land becomes a 3/3 creature with vigilance and all creature types. It's still a land.
: Zacama deals 3 damage to target creature.