Lol
#REVERSED! (EDH) Assistance!
shrewd zealotBOT
wicked gust
Don't worry about it
deft belfry
ah your
wicked gust
It's a Hero's of the real card if I recall
deft belfry
voice to text
wicked gust
voice to text
No lol it's a dumb joke
deft belfry
oh i didnt know which line you were responding to XD
deft belfry
you made it sounds like i made an innuendo somewhere i wasnt aware of
wicked gust
Lol
deft belfry
gremlin making chandra would be so nice since you can make blockers for her
wicked gust
I'll look at them...maybe I'll look at the ones that discard cards fo fuel klothys
deft belfry
ideally oyu dont discard the entire hand
and have selection
i think one has discard 3 draw 3 is it in the deck
is it even chandra idr
well now i see the spoiler chandra [[chill of compliance]]
shrewd zealotBOT
Legendary Planeswalker — Chandra
+1: Surveil 1. If you put a noncreature, nonland card into your graveyard this way, put that card into your hand.
+1: Add 
. Spend this mana only to cast a noncreature spell.
−X: Tap target artifact or creature. Put X stun counters on it.
−6: You get an emblem with "Whenever you cast a spell, draw a card."
Loyalty: 3
deft belfry
spellslinger for blue
sounds like narset
[[!chandra flame fury]] i dislike this one
shrewd zealotBOT
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
with like [[paker camera]] it can resolve twice
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
[[peter parker camera]]
shrewd zealotBOT
Artifact
This artifact enters with three film counters on it.
, 
, Remove a film counter from this artifact: Copy target activated or triggered ability you control. You may choose new targets for the copy.
"How does Parker get those close-ups?" —J. Jonah Jameson
deft belfry
swap for [[kher keep]] for blocker
shrewd zealotBOT
Legendary Land
: Add 
.
, : Create a 0/1 red Kobold creature token named Kobolds of Kher Keep.
"I swear, for every one Prossh devours, three more pop out of a hole somewhere." —Jaya Ballard
deft belfry
idk if [[mobilized district]] is worth it since i am still tesitng it
shrewd zealotBOT
Land
: Add .
: This land becomes a 3/3 Citizen creature with vigilance until end of turn. It's still a land. This ability costs less to activate for each legendary creature and planeswalker you control.
Sometimes the strongest weapon you can hold in your hand is another hand.
deft belfry
i usually include [[honor worn shaku]] with high legend count i dont think i saw it here
shrewd zealotBOT
Artifact
: Add .
Tap an untapped legendary permanent you control: Untap this artifact.
Before being presented to its lord, each shaku is blessed by every hero of every region within that lord's domain.
deft belfry
[[myx lotus]] may also be worth
shrewd zealotBOT
Legendary Artifact
Nyx Lotus enters tapped.
: Choose a color. Add an amount of mana of that color equal to your devotion to that color. (Your devotion to a color is the number of mana symbols of that color in the mana costs of permanents you control.)
deft belfry
or the proliferate ish effect with [[glittering stockpile]] i think this one is generally too slow but it is an option for burst mana
shrewd zealotBOT
Artifact — Treasure
: Add . Put a stash counter on this artifact.
, Sacrifice this artifact: Add X mana of any one color, where X is the number of stash counters on this artifact.
The only thing Ziatora desires is "more."
deft belfry
its way worse than [[everflowing chalice]]
shrewd zealotBOT
Artifact
Multikicker (You may pay an additional any number of times as you cast this spell.)
This artifact enters with a charge counter on it for each time it was kicked.
: Add for each charge counter on this artifact.
deft belfry
[[lavabrink flood]] is a fun jank i find early this year
shrewd zealotBOT
Artifact
: Add .
At the beginning of each player's upkeep, that player may put a doom counter on this artifact or remove a doom counter from it. Then if it has three or more doom counters on it, sacrifice this artifact. When you do, it deals 6 damage to each creature.
deft belfry
[[valakut exploration]] landfall synergy
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
for repeatable camera, there is [[ring of brighthearth]]
shrewd zealotBOT
Artifact
Whenever you activate an ability, if it isn't a mana ability, you may pay . If you do, copy that ability. You may choose new targets for the copy.
"Without flame, there would be no iron tools, no cooked meals, no purge of old growth to make room for new." —Brighthearth creed
deft belfry
not a card i ever consider running
but it sort of beats [[!the chain veil]] until you have more than one planeswalker
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
at two they still break even with rings being slightly less
i think hitting [[delayed blast fireball]] with impulse would be solid
shrewd zealotBOT
Instant
Delayed Blast Fireball deals 2 damage to each opponent and each creature they control. If this spell was cast from exile, it deals 5 damage to each opponent and each creature they control instead.
Foretell (During your turn, you may pay and exile this card from your hand face down. Cast it on a later turn for its foretell cost.)
storm fox
I wanted the land ase of this deck to be as simple as possible when i made it, there isnt even a command tower in here😅
Havent tested that one yet, but i feel like its gonna work pretty well if i've got more creatures than other people, just casting the exiles spell once is already worth it
Let alone casting it multiple times
deft belfry
[[Chandra, Legacy of Fire]]
shrewd zealotBOT
Legendary Planeswalker — Chandra
At the beginning of your end step, Chandra deals X damage to each opponent, where X is the number of planeswalkers you control.
+1: Add for each planeswalker you control.
0: Remove a loyalty counter from each of any number of permanents you control. Exile that many cards from the top of your library. You may play them this turn.
Loyalty: 3
deft belfry
yeah it s fine, may not even draw both
ohhhh [[The Peregrine Dynamo]] is good with chandra
shrewd zealotBOT
Legendary Artifact Creature — Construct
Haste
, : Copy target activated or triggered ability you control from another legendary source that's not a commander. You may choose new targets for the copy. (Mana abilities can't be targeted.)
Jhoira stumbled upon an ally, not just a good source of spare parts.
1/5
wicked gust
I reworked the equipment dexk as I noticed I had a lot of creatures draws amd hardly any equipment...
storm fox
I decided i wanna get rid of worldfire, do you know any other big stupid spells that u could use instead of it?
deft belfry
I reworked the equipment dexk as I noticed I had a lot of creatures draws amd ha...
but arent we on the chandra deck 👀
wicked gust
Yes, but I saw an op creature...lol
deft belfry
in place of [[!worldfire]]?
shrewd zealotBOT
wicked gust
[[Etched champion]]
shrewd zealotBOT
wicked gust
I'm working on the klothys deck right mow
deft belfry
[[Etched champion]]
down side, pro red cant equip red stuff
otherwise it a nice attacker
or ground blocker
without reach its meh as blocker
wicked gust
Plenty of noncolor equips
It's worth a test
So what exactly did you suggest I for sure add to the klothys dexk? Such word vomits lol
deft belfry
i think peregrine is perfect in this semi legendary tribal
i see chain veil but it is very much worst than rings of brighthearth until you keep 3 chandras out
the mana ramps are all optional
i think valakut explor is worth a slot since card advantage + easy landfall trigger + damage never hurt
kher keep is imergency blocker and lands are easy swaps
i dont think you have [[acolyte of flame]] which is basically your proliferate in red, at the low cost of 3 mana
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
so i see 3 adds and 2 swaps
deft belfry
how many chandra did you add
i think i can cut a forest from the kher add
as long as you dont run out of basics to search
so the interaction with planewalker and indestructible
is that it doesnt stop damage
so loyalty counter still will drop
damage doubler/tripler i would probably drop as well to maintain the curve
i dont think harmonize is that great of a card to belong here but i also want to avoid cutting card draw too early; thats a maybe
[[!fade into antiquity]] is exile that important for your deck
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
because it is very much a worse version of that [[!collective resistance]] due to powercreep
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
not to mention you also have the generic removal beast within
fresh tapir
https://discord.com/channels/574711449566445603/1502897473188790392
Looking to remove reduencies and just optimize for bracket 4, center piece of the deck being ichormorr gaulet. Planeswalker prolifernste deck
deft belfry
[[!kazuul tyrant cliffs]] imo is an alright creature too but it doesnt work when your planeswalkers are being attacked
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
since i also see solphim in the creatures, i think dictate is a easy cut. planeswalker decks dont really need to have 5 mana open
lot of those cards are coming out to do nothing though so be careful how many turns you can "skip" and not get punished
the thing about indestrutible is a weird redundant effect when the commander is rarely a creature. and idk how much removals are going to be directed at chandras. worst part is just not preventing combat damage
fresh tapir
Not to step in, but Heavily reommend [[!Chranda, Legacy of fire]]
Excellent passive, and is practically a ritual if you got enough cost reduction and or planeswalkers
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
i think that was there at somepoint
fresh tapir
Fair
deft belfry
not too sure why it is in the side deck
while [[chandra glames fury]] is there 😅 but idc too much which chandra it is since it's just one of them
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
oh lol 7 chandras are 6cmc
[[!earthquake]] is actually pretty bad here too since its all your mana to kill all non flying (your own creatures) and burn everyone including yourself
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
without flying blockers, chances is that planewalks are already taking a beating
may swap return to nature for something that can remove mutiple incoming attacks
that should to be 5+ cuts
deft belfry
[[The Peregrine Dynamo]] [[rings of brighthearth]][[peter parker camera]] all can copy abilities @fresh tapir
shrewd zealotBOT
Legendary Artifact Creature — Construct
Haste
, : Copy target activated or triggered ability you control from another legendary source that's not a commander. You may choose new targets for the copy. (Mana abilities can't be targeted.)
Jhoira stumbled upon an ally, not just a good source of spare parts.
1/5
Artifact
Whenever you activate an ability, if it isn't a mana ability, you may pay . If you do, copy that ability. You may choose new targets for the copy.
"Without flame, there would be no iron tools, no cooked meals, no purge of old growth to make room for new." —Brighthearth creed
Artifact
This artifact enters with three film counters on it.
, , Remove a film counter from this artifact: Copy target activated or triggered ability you control. You may choose new targets for the copy.
"How does Parker get those close-ups?" —J. Jonah Jameson
fresh tapir
[[The Peregrine Dynamo]] [[rings of brighthearth]][[peter parker camera]] all ca...
Do know of all of those and thought about theme all, but decided not to
deft belfry
sounds good, less to cut from XD
fresh tapir
My bracket 3 planeswalker already hard leans to copying abilities and tokens
fresh tapir
Its a great card, but, not for my current one
deft belfry
would be fun to clone my opponents commander then copy the ability
anyways i am going to sleep
storm fox
in place of [[!worldfire]]?
Yeah
Worldfire is considered mass land denial
So maybe some other game ending big spell?
deft belfry
did you see my cuts above
deft belfry
i think i can cut a forest from the kher add
here
strider rider and tamiyo are good cards but i dont think you need them too much unless you have other things to protect
i would probably cut just the tamiyo to test
rider can make a emergercy blocker to surprise combat and save chandra
i am here looking at a bunch of old cards and trying to see if i can brew something with [[sigil of distinction]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
[[sphinx bone wand]] may cost oo much and idk how many spells fits in this type of counter matters deck with equipment and proliferate sub theme
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
but the dream is like making 9/9 every turn with [[titan forge]] etc
shrewd zealotBOT
Artifact
, : Put a charge counter on this artifact.
, Remove three charge counters from this artifact: Create a 9/9 colorless Golem artifact creature token.
deft belfry
but i kow forsure i aint buying Umezawa Jitte for a jank deck
[[$umezawa jitte]] i guess it is sort of cheap with reprint
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
kek
wicked gust
Yes I did cut all the ones you suggested, i believe
wicked gust
but i kow forsure i aint buying Umezawa Jitte for a jank deck
I on a whim bought that box legends thing that had a lot of those special foul cards for $85 years ago and it had a Umezawa's Jitte in it
From thr Vault : lore
deft belfry
lol [[conflux]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
idr the last time i saw this in anything, probably got kicked out of commander in today's avg power
love my [[!glissa the traitor]] deck
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
its Golgari Garbage, midrange B3 though so also not many chance of playing it
[[!unmask]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
no idea this was power from the past
ohh you should use [[mind desire]] that is hard to do
shrewd zealotBOT
wicked gust
Lol maybe in the new prismari deck or even my current izzet deck
odd zenith
https://archidekt.com/decks/22414491/disco_boy i would like some help to make it more consistant we allow proxys so I could add the cedh staple stuff but I dont wanna overdo it. i have all in list atm exept demonic tutor. Im mostly thinking about adding the better mana rocks instead of the shitty creatures . I got it as a budget br4 but had alot of stuf to upgrade the base of the deck but would like some tips on maybe more combos and what to swap out for like remora and stuff
deft belfry
prof copied my idea and is doing deck help XD oh well i wonder if i should post anything there; make everything super wrong with a very niche premise that is nearly impossible to fix
deft belfry
https://archidekt.com/decks/22414491/disco_boy i would like some help to make i...
so many grixis b4 decks 😵
i am going to have to look through another previous deck for comparison to see what you have and what not
will do that sometime after work
🏃
for starter, not a big fan of 2 cmc rocks when utility rocks can do much more
2 cmc sets up for one extra mana T3 and so on
where as utility rocks gives more value and sometimes more mana in the long run [[coalition relic]] for ex
shrewd zealotBOT
Artifact
: Add one mana of any color.
: Put a charge counter on this artifact.
At the beginning of your first main phase, remove all charge counters from this artifact. Add one mana of any color for each charge counter removed this way.
deft belfry
which sets up for the guarantee 5 mana & mana fixing, without the need of hitting a land drop etc
odd zenith
~~prof copied my idea and is doing deck help~~ XD oh well i wonder if i should p...
Hehe ok i can see if i find that and post there also 😛
odd zenith
which sets up for the guarantee 5 mana & mana fixing, without the need of hittin...
Hmm seems nice
wicked gust
Got the dexk down to 100 by myself lol thoughts? https://moxfield.com/decks/-6FA0Ke99Uqgmg62SyjZ1g
Also thoughts on the walkers I picked?
blissful lily
I really want to bring this ashling the limitless deck to bracket 4 maybe even eventually 5 but not quite sure how to get it there yet. open to any suggestions https://moxfield.com/decks/WdBNZOGsbUKtlnU8d5QHFg
Definitely need better mana and game changers could probably use better card draw as well
deft belfry
Got the dexk down to 100 by myself lol thoughts? https://moxfield.com/decks/-6FA...
hmm that is a lot of removals gone, we will see if that works out]
i think i dislike [[!chandra flames fury]] the most, because everything looks bad on her
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
damage is always the worst scaling in commander high life total format
otherwise, the rest of the chandra seems alright, may swap them as you please
draw chandras are usually the best ones
deft belfry
I really want to bring this ashling the limitless deck to bracket 4 maybe even e...
kinda confused by the game plan here; i dont see the cohesion
wicked gust
Could remove her for a proper removal
I did add back [[fade into obscurity]] as the Exile is better than removal moat of the time
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
[[!Lightning Surge]][[[!thriving bluff]][[!eris roar storm]][[!darksteel ingot]] to list a few... those cards dont belong
wicked gust
[[Fade into antiqu]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
meh on that one
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
https://archidekt.com/decks/22414491/disco_boy i would like some help to make i...
i see lot of weird dmg and single use ramp stuff
not sure what combos you have already
risky mana base with low land count
curve, colour balance and distribution seems good tho
just that if you dont hit that third land, you kinda get set back
https://www.salubrioussnail.com/calculators easy and quick way to check
wicked gust
song of dryads
Ah, for the devotion ...
deft belfry
and you can hit more, better
exile artifact enchantment is inconsistent and overkill
wicked gust
I did swap Decimate for Kenrith transformation for a bit more draw, or was that a bad idea?
deft belfry
i think that doesnt matter
one is removal one draw 1 so you sort of trade 1 for 0
decimate is at least trading like 1 card for 3 cards that somewhat matters
although i prefer decimate here more for a simple reason
you have burn, creatures are easier to remove than non creatures
you run boardwipes to protect planeswalkers
Bw doesnt care about destroying one more or one less
so its just perference
wicked gust
Fair
So
The new klothys deck is done
Are you surprised at the concept of it? Given my affinity for certain decks? Lol
deft belfry
not surprised by the concept, just didnt think that your favourite commander was gruul
and somewhat finicky to build around rather than straight forward
[[klothys god destiny]]
shrewd zealotBOT
Legendary Enchantment Creature — God
Indestructible
As long as your devotion to red and green is less than seven, Klothys isn't a creature.
At the beginning of your first main phase, exile target card from a graveyard. If it was a land card, add or 
. Otherwise, you gain 2 life and Klothys deals 2 damage to each opponent.
4/5
deft belfry
3 drop commander, can enter early game easily. have access to red green for ramp and burn. the ability also covers both or either ramp or burn once per turn/per round. at the low cost of exiling one card from any one graveyard; so a slow gravehate. and with an indestructible body in colours that are relying on permanents that will forsure build up the devotion in no time.
so itself has no obvious build around, and perhaps not even a win con. yet the small value will gather up and reach the a certain point as long as some small tribute is given to the god
for maximize utility, all i can really do is to make sure graveyard(s) have both card types so i can get the best choice at each given moment
and perhaps skip the 4 drop curve and go straight for 5 drop explosive [[mana geyser]] type of turn, but the downside is that the scaling is much worse if the deck go too fast.
shrewd zealotBOT
Sorcery
Add for each tapped land your opponents control.
The Quicksilver Sea hissed and bubbled at the indignity. The Vulshok shaman just smiled.
deft belfry
i may go as far as [[virtue eater]] on my commander
shrewd zealotBOT
Legendary Artifact — Equipment
Whenever equipped creature dies, exile it.
Equipped creature gets +2/+0.
As long as a card exiled with Eater of Virtue has flying, equipped creature has flying. The same is true for first strike, double strike, deathtouch, haste, hexproof, indestructible, lifelink, menace, protection, reach, trample, and vigilance.
Equip
deft belfry
just so i can pass those abilities along to the next victim
and in some case, mutate onto them so that the god can become a non legendary, non-creature permanent that dodge almost all removals
planeswalker tribal would be the last thing i would do this ramp in command zone
odd zenith
i see lot of weird dmg and single use ramp stuff
The 2 dmg spells is for loop with pinnacle monk. Yeah I feel like the wierd mana creatures is wonky but guess the guys i got the list from just want kefka out fast to start getting card draw. Combos are broodlord into pinnacle monk lightning bolt combo. Electro dupe and snapcaster. And mayhem for sac ping dmg to avoid fog on that. Riona and the 3 mana creature for infi combat. And snapcast blink with kefka to discard all oponent hand and infi draw. Infi mana. Think thats it
blissful lily
kinda confused by the game plan here; i dont see the cohesion
The game plan was wizards, sorcerers/elementals its started as a ball of flame kins. Do you have any recommendations for game changers or upgrading the mana base https://moxfield.com/decks/WdBNZOGsbUKtlnU8d5QHFg
Basically trying to either double triggered abilitys for spellslinging or elemental etbs
Then burn the board as i work to getting both niv mizzets on the battlefield
deft belfry
The game plan was wizards, sorcerers/elementals its started as a ball of flame k...
i think the deck and the expected power level maybe a mismatch, if you take out the one mass land denial blood moon, is the deck still consider B4? i dont think so
i would probably do a step at a time and get an idea how you want the commander to play or whenever thats the powerful and optimized deck you want for it
blissful lily
Yeah thats the issue lmao I know it'll be some work im just low key slowly bringing it up from each bracket
deft belfry
[[ashling rekindled]] how do you think this plays for starter
shrewd zealotBOT
Legendary Creature — Elemental Sorcerer
Whenever this creature enters or transforms into Ashling, Rekindled, you may discard a card. If you do, draw a card.
At the beginning of your first main phase, you may pay . If you do, transform Ashling.
1/3
Ashling, Rimebound
Legendary Creature — Elemental Wizard
Whenever this creature transforms into Ashling, Rimebound and at the beginning of your first main phase, add two mana of any one color. Spend this mana only to cast spells with mana value 4 or greater.
At the beginning of your first main phase, you may pay . If you do, transform Ashling.
1/3
blissful lily
I think for now imma call it a strong three maybe use shark typhoon in place of blood moon until i find some more game changers
deft belfry
you can ignore the whole game changers for now
just focus on brewing your deck and make it as good as possible
blissful lily
[[ashling rekindled]] how do you think this plays for starter
In my mind it plays as a rummage on the front and discount for 4+ mana on the back wanting to ramp 4 cost Artifacts to afford big stompy spells
solemn canyon
I'd switch evolving wilds for ash barrens
deft belfry
in that case, 3 cost stuffs are automatically not doing what you wanrt
blissful lily
Yeah my b mana base definitely needs some work any go to 4 or more cost Artifacts youd recommend
deft belfry
we can ignore the mana base problem for now too
the core of the deck isnt doing much to make it strong
blissful lily
Strongly relying on the storm and or infinite combos atm
deft belfry
ashling is not a win con, it can rummage but thats not a draw engine that will get you to the exact thing you need
yeah
so you need ways to get to those combo pieces
blissful lily
Yeah card draws definitely an issue as I have the enchantment [[Teferi's Ageless Insight]] but with out enough card draw it definitely doesn't pop enough
deft belfry
like, there are many 4+ drops in the deck, i see 29 cards
some are much higher than 4 ofc
instead of looking at an individual card, what you want is some sort of synergy
when ageless inisight works, it basically doubles your draw
solemn canyon
I reccommend you tag your cards according to what their rôle is in the deck so you can see exactly how much of each things you have
deft belfry
but if you are trying to go infinite combo
for ex any niv mizzet stuff
drawing 2x infinite is the same as 1x
ofc you may not go infinite and you can end up with lot more card draw
blissful lily
Yeah that what I mean to double the card draw more often I should definitely add more draw peices
deft belfry
https://scryfall.com/card/jud/96/lightning-surge
those dont make much sense to me
overcosted, insignificant damage, tapped land in two colours identity is just as good as a gate, Eris overcosted, slow and need set up. then a 3 mana ramp that has no other utility
if the rock is something like [[curse mirror]] it wouldnt be an issue
shrewd zealotBOT
Artifact
: Add .
As this artifact enters, you may have it become a copy of any creature on the battlefield until end of turn, except it has haste.
blissful lily
Yeah Eris was more so an add bc of it being an elemental ngl
Would you recommend [[!tablet of discovery]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
i think we can start from scratch with a second version of the deck. this time we will put in cards one at a time and ONLY pick things that fits the theme you set for yourself
solemn canyon
https://scryfall.com/card/sos/132/tablet-of-discovery
I personally prefer resonating lute here cause ashling can only cast cmc 4 spells
deft belfry
while its a 3 drop mana rock that doesnt fulfill the 4 drop requirement from ashling, if i am not trying to get the exact thing that
only works with the commander
i can see it helps only because it is
blissful lily
I personally prefer resonating lute here cause ashling can only cast cmc 4 spell...
Resonatjng Lute is a perfect fit thanks
deft belfry
tapping for 2 mana like a [[worn power stone]]
shrewd zealotBOT
Artifact
This artifact enters tapped.
: Add .
Even a fragment of a powerstone contains within it not just energy, but space—vast dimensions trapped in fragile crystal.
deft belfry
[[!resonating lute]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
yeah this is better
solemn canyon
Yeah that what I mean to double the card draw more often I should definitely add...
I like Lorien revealed cause you can islandcycle it and thus count it as a land, unexpected windfall/big score/pirate's pillage since they ramp you as well as give u card draw and are 4cmc so you can always cast them on turn 3 thx to ashling
deft belfry
the tablet is when you are waiting for another turn for a even bigger turn. but i dont think you want worn power stone ramp over actual instant sorcery spells
i am going to step back a bit and watch you two discuss for now
fyi there are not established theme yet
blissful lily
My theme was flamekins starting out but I didnt quite have the power or as much spell slinging as I wanted
solemn canyon
so you prefer storm now?
cause you can still do a flamkin deck, it's just going to be more difficult to make it b4
blissful lily
The storm for me is kinda a fail safe if I don't get the infinite in time
blissful lily
cause you can still do a flamkin deck, it's just going to be more difficult to m...
That's why ive started to shift to spell slinging i think eventually imma make a bracket 2 flamkin deck
solemn canyon
do you have a budget limit of sorts
blissful lily
Not exactly im ok spending just gotta do it one card at a time depending on price lmao
Ngl to you though ashling rekindled is kinda a pet card for me lorawyn was my first prerelease and I pulled a full art foil ashling rekindled and know just wanna eventually see if I can take it to cedh over time
Im completely ok with the process it'll be getting there i know it'll be alot of reconstruction
solemn canyon
ashling is a fantastic card, I have a great B3 ashling deck that I adore so I totally get it
I wont be able to help with cedh cedh, but if you want to try to turn it into a cedh then you could take a look at some of the best izzet cedh decks and see the roll of the commander in those decks and see if ashling could be a good replacement
cause the thing about cedh is that it really cares about the meta, B4 is more where the highest power of non meta decks are going to sit yk
especially when you've got turbo decks like rogsci winning on turn1 or 2
blissful lily
Yeah I get what you mean definitely gonna be a journey lol
solemn canyon
Yeah I get what you mean definitely gonna be a journey lol
I gtg for now but I can help in dms later to make the deck bracket 3 at least, leaning towards B4
deft belfry
B4 is also something beyond just power level but the optimization of a commander and card choices
basically, you need to analyze why a card is in the deck and does it fits what you want to do with it
if you are newer to the game and yet to be able to evaluate cards, it will be much harder to pick out cards for yourself
solemn canyon
monomon do you think fast mana rocks are necessary in a B4 deck? ex:mana vault, moxes
deft belfry
lot of players misjudge cards in theory for that reason
depends on the game plan but most of the time fast mana dont have much downsides
blissful lily
Yeah that's the issue lol I've started in December. I've been listening to as many deck tech and card reviews as possible while at work
Do you think I should add a sol ring or just keep it to 4 cost Artifacts
deft belfry
good time you mentioned that
sol ring is a card you will probably put in all your decks for starters
blissful lily
Yeah most have it just didn't know if it would fit into this one definitely replace the the darksteel ingot for one
deft belfry
they dont share the same role, but sol ring has too long of a discussion. lets just say it is a "free GC" that every deck gets even B2 decks
its a conscious choice to not include it more than a power level one
listening to deck tech and review is good but i think you want to know more specifically about commander
command zone has great pod cast on most if not all the topic you are looking for
i prefer visual so i usually watch since i also dont absorb much from just verbal
but all that aside
set yourself a game plan with ashling
know what you want to do after that 4 mana Turn 3 and the following turns
blissful lily
Rn I think the gamplan is card draw maybe archmage emeritus and one or two more draw engines as well as fixing the Artifacts to be mainly 4+ ramp or utility
Then getting the more expensive interaction / counters
deft belfry
aim B2 or B3+
blissful lily
For now definitely 3+
deft belfry
then the focus wouldnt be ramp first
and the budget will probably be somewhat on the expensive side with like $2-$5 on average per card
so probably a bit more than a precon by estimate
do you want to work on it together or i throw together a somewhat established core and then ask me why those cards are in?
gtg to work for now, probably back some times tonight
if you want to look for cards, in general my rule of thumb is that the card is able to do at least 2 things at once
whenver it helps my game plan or sabotage my opponents
and always ask yourself this when you are B3 "How do you win?"
and lot of the pet cards will get cut because they dont contribute to winning the game for you
the biggest difference between B2 and B3 is the mindset/intend
B2 just want to play and show off cards, B3 tries to win even if it takes like 20 mana to do it. B4 would do it more optimally, Cedh is just whatever gets there as quick as possible; sometimes cross a bit into B4
in a nutshell
while you cannot cast Mana Geyser too early/ on the 4 mana turn, i think it would belong in the deck for that reason as it is usually a game winning turn when it resolves
we need wins con for ashling
wicked gust
Or even have both in the equipment deck? Or find cards that be good low drop flyers?
deft belfry
I decided i wanna get rid of worldfire, do you know any other big stupid spells ...
i found [[!mirror of fate]] XD is it stupid enough?
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
i think i do want an instant sorcery tho so there can be more things going into like ... [[arcane bombardment]] type of value
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
Or even have both in the equipment deck? Or find cards that be good low drop fly...
either one works with equipements, i value offense more than defense
unless your equipments already have added evasion and still not enough , i dont think flying is needed
deft belfry
so many flying vigilance
i would never try putting [[!griffin sentinel]] in a legit deck of mine
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
small things that probably wont matter for this deck so more for future reference
the closer in % of the two, the better chance of hitting the right colour for the deck
in an artifact deck, sometimes there are also supports that really benefits the theme such as [[all is dust]] and [[echo of eternity]]
deft belfry
equipments may not have the best triggers, but for the most part, those double triggers are REALLY good
long geode
https://archidekt.com/decks/22346209/yshtola
Hi, I just started playing EDH recently and I need some help with my current B3 Y'shtola deck. I feel like the deck is strong, but sometimes I draw dead (all artifacts/lands). I also feel like the deck is not focused enough, catering too many aspects.
deft belfry
while it is possible to cut those dead cards i think it is too risky
curve is low enough tho
i can see what focus can improve
long geode
do you see any obvious cards to be cut out to make the deck more focused on certain gameplay?
i was thinking maybe the bolas' citadel and swap it with rhystic study to help with the draw engine
long geode
i also added both fast lands and slow lands in the same deck. not sure if it's a good idea though
deft belfry
technically i didn't find obvious cut and there is a high density of overlap/synergy cards. i did noticed that for a control style deck the removal count maybe lower than i expected and turns out the sources of mana seems hide. i know you want lot of 2 mana rocks for early commander, but thats the exact risk you 've been running into; getting mana sources later on
31 land cards, 1 creature, GC tithe, 10 rocks, (43) total hmmm
but the draw and burn count seems so high already going to goldfish bit more
what an opening, the fetch should helps a lot when it comes to getting lands out of the 99
[[!concealed courtyard]] unless you prefer untapped early and tapped lands later, this one is usually not the first choice in commander
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
its okay but sort of force you to play it by T3
from play texting, how useful is [[mithril coat]] thats one of the expensive cards i dont get to experience first hand
shrewd zealotBOT
Legendary Artifact — Equipment
Flash
Indestructible
When Mithril Coat enters, attach it to target legendary creature you control.
Equipped creature has indestructible.
Equip
deft belfry
realized the curve display is quite off
since some of those cost 0/reduced
so no wonder its getting too much mana
so some math is required to calculate things
and reevuluate each one in the deck for its place beyond just synergy with commander, like how much it is needed
storm fox
i found [[!mirror of fate]] XD is it stupid enough?
thats one funky card
never heard of it
i eventually decided to put a pyretic charge instead of worldfire
helps with one bit problem of the list
which is card draw
or it could work as a finisher by buffing like 15 creatures with like 3 or 4 power
deft belfry
and reevuluate each one in the deck for its place beyond just synergy with commander, like how much it is needed
deft belfry
which is card draw
yeah, every red decks core issue. one that i noticed right when commander is like one of the only ways to draw and miracle will keep burning at least 1 card each turn
[[pyretic charge
i havent find a copy to pick this up[[!pyretic charge]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
right up my alley in most fair magic red decks
i guess plot may not be a great mechanic but every bit of cost reduction count, and i may have a chance of using it with my upcoming twelfth doctor deck. force discard as well as a free spell from exile
lowkey wish plotting can be down at instant speed like fortell
not that it really matters
people tends to forget about fortelling in the endstep anyways
deft belfry
i was thinking maybe the bolas' citadel and swap it with rhystic study to help w...
purely for card draw, that would make a lot of sense. the lands i am not too concern about since those are easy to fix, even can use basics with all the fixing in the deck already
never thought i would say this, but i think this might be one of the few decks i would consider taking out [[!sparkdouble]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
- mainly to copy commander for a 2nd one
- end up with 3 power which bypass the Delney "double" trigger
- non legendary is actually slightly worse because of protection from Mithril Coat
- and the most important aspect, other than commander there arent many things to copy due to super low creature count
[[!sakashima of thousand faces]] shares similar problems but at the very least, it is still legendary and 2 power so its sort of a strictly better on for the purpose of this deck
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
since its going to be commander 4 mana and then another 4 mana sorcery speed clone on a following turn or 2, i figure spark double can go
overall though, i want to cut and make room for the value play that lets you get around flooding
deft belfry
or it could work as a finisher by buffing like 15 creatures with like 3 or 4 pow...
is this too stupid [[blessed wind]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
i found [[providence]] along with it lol
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
"This deck contants all 26 letters jank" XD
solemn canyon
https://moxfield.com/decks/pZTyoXZ_FUe7iR9hHMF2vA
I am building a bracket 4 Lorehold deck. The plan is to ramp with my artifacts subtheme to get Lorehold out as fast as possible, then refill my usually empty hand with wheels since most of my artifacts are low mana cost and finally cast big spells for their miracle cost and win. My problem is that I find I have many dead hands and I am forced to mulligan quite a lot. Furthermore, the deck wins between turns 4-7 and it isn't always consistent there. I haven't played too much bracket 4 myself so I dont know if thats ok or not. Thank you in advance for your help. I intend on running more removal so removal reccomendations would also be helpful.
deft belfry
all B4 decks XD
so, lot of ramp to get commander out
but miracle may also miss more cards
just need to hit the miracle that matters i guess or combo into hand
checking how many breach loops there are
consistency seems good
do worldfire works or its random
lol this opening
may bounce surveil and T3 commander?
i am hitting the mana pretty easily but the miracle is meh (right side are the next 4 draws for the following turn cycle)
can miracle 1 but have no way to looking/changing the top
solemn canyon
do worldfire works or its random
usually I either discard it or play it with teferi's prot
deft belfry
not a fan of the risk of [[reckless endeavor]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
i like that its hard to counter without knowing the amount of damage it deals until it resolve
but 6-12 can kill your commander even if you can recast with the treasure mana
in the case where you get 6 on both
solemn canyon
but 6-12 can kill your commander even if you can recast with the treasure mana
yeah it's a card I've been considering cutting for that exact reason
deft belfry
which is low chance
1-6 50%, 7-12 50% roughly
getting over 6 or more* on both is a bit higher than 25%
can test it out since it can be well timed wipe
idk if the deck has enough big spells to get the miracle payoff
solemn canyon
can test it out since it can be well timed wipe
from what I've seen, when it doesn't kill my commander it's great and when it kills my commander I can usually recast him with the treasure mana keeping a couple treasures as well
deft belfry
yeah if you kill commander, it means you have at least 5 mana from the untapped treasure
solemn canyon
idk if the deck has enough big spells to get the miracle payoff
but wouldn't adding more spells just increase the rate of my dead draws? Cause at worst without my commander on early turns they are useless
deft belfry
it certainly would
rn the land count is on the edge of flooding too
but lands are more useful
than unplayable spell in hand
solemn canyon
yeah idk how I feel about the landcount. I have playetested this deck and it always feels like im either flooding or getting nothing lmao which is def just bad luck. But since I have so much ramp, cutting 1-2 lands for other cards might not be a bad idea
especially since I have artifact tutors which I mostly use to get mana vault or sol ring or monument to endurance
also I am thinking of cutting primal amulet cause I find it is too expensive and even though it is an artifact, I never seem to tutor for it, do you have any reccomendations for cost reducers
also tezzeret is one of the best cards in my deck since it is so versatile, sadly I havent found any good tutors for him especially cause the planeswalker tutors seem terrible
deft belfry
i would try to add a subtheme
like cards that can be useful in grave or something
rough/girl math, if there is a protection/removal interaction piece that need to be held onto, thats one less card you can discard
i want to have the card selection to maximize the number of discardable card in hand
and set up for the miracle win con
kinda like when you resolve [[gamble]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
the bigger the hand size, the less likely you hit the card you search for, unless you are me, i lose that like 100% of the time i have used it
2/2 on a borrowed deck(s)
i though of [[Ghirapur Aether Grid]] but its not strong enough
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
is there some crazy permanent that just deletes your opponents the moment they drop
like [[portal to phyrexia]] early game
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
but the downside is that each of those are
unplayable before commander is out
whats the ideal ratio for big spells topdeck
or selection to get around them
lets say commander comes out on 4 mana (around T4) regularly
tapped out at his point so no mana for miracle
the following round you can discard 3 times and draw 4 in that round for 4 chances
solemn canyon
unplayable before commander is out
I mean those dont really seem that good even when he is out but maybe im missing something
deft belfry
until then, you would have looked through roughly 7 + 4 turns +3 commander trigger of a total of 14 cards
85 remains in the 99
solemn canyon
honestly from the playtesting I've done, I usually find plenty of the big spells, since I run so many wheels I see many of them
solemn canyon
and thats when I can tutor for library of leng, or scroll rack or penance
or I draw into them
deft belfry
there is one more [[hidden retreat]]
shrewd zealotBOT
solemn canyon
but I agree with the graveyard theme
deft belfry
much more conditional tho
solemn canyon
there is one more [[hidden retreat]]
oh nice I didn't know of this
deft belfry
solemn canyon
I mean does it have to have a target?
deft belfry
its conditional because of that
i dont think you need another one
[[peance]] should be fine
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
[[penace]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
[[penance]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
so you really just need consistent.ways to put the exact thing ontop of your deck
XD why did i thought of lantern controlling yourself
maybe the self reveal [[goblin spy]] type of effect + shuffling can do it?
shrewd zealotBOT
solemn canyon
maybe the self reveal [[goblin spy]] type of effect + shuffling can do it?
I feel like top is just better especially with my artifact subtheme
deft belfry
then it would make sense to have a higher land count so you can replay lands after you wipe lands
deft belfry
I feel like top is just better especially with my artifact subtheme
but more shuffling focus
solemn canyon
but I ended up cutting top cause I found it wasnt bringing anything to my gameplan but maybe I didn't have enough shuffling
solemn canyon
then it would make sense to have a higher land count so you can replay lands aft...
I mean I dont really cast wordlfire unless I play on casting tef prot with it and I dont any other ways of destroying lands
deft belfry
rn i see 3 win cons
thats pretty low chance to get in a quick game
even if you draw into one, and not the normal miracle way out
you have to put it back ontop to cast
which is a couple extra steps
solemn canyon
thats pretty low chance to get in a quick game
tru
deft belfry
perhaps even with tutor there arent enough ways to allow you to control the top deck
how many cards can you do on scroll rack
solemn canyon
as many as you want
deft belfry
i mean in here
your hand size
if you put away the entire hand, full grip, top deck set up
solemn canyon
then 7 I guess cause I dont have anything to get rid of my max handsize
deft belfry
and after miracle-ing whatever out, shuffle library rise and repeat
the tough math is like trying to [[chaos warp]] yourself and hope you hit something important
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
i think you also dont need that in here 😅
btw
but if i see lorehold to be constantly doing that to you
getting that random payoff is hard to win with
for now i want to stay with 37 lands and see what else can be changed
is it like triple the win or top deck matter cards
or swap out the core for what the deck wants to do
too much mana not enough payoff
solemn canyon
i think you also dont need that in here 😅
yeah ur right, I've been struggling with the removal package since I usually play blue in all my decks lol
deft belfry
oooh i think i want [[alhammarret's archive]] here
shrewd zealotBOT
solemn canyon
https://scryfall.com/card/c21/233/alhammarrets-archive
oh to double the wheels
thats interesting
deft belfry
yeah ur right, I've been struggling with the removal package since I usually pla...
come on, you got white, the most broken removal colour
and this one maybe, more niche [[phial of galdriel]]
shrewd zealotBOT
Legendary Artifact
If you would draw a card while you have no cards in hand, draw two cards instead.
If you would gain life while you have 5 or less life, you gain twice that much life instead.
: Add one mana of any color.
"May it be a light to you in dark places, when all other lights go out."
deft belfry
as a mana rock i think it has potential to fit
not sure in B4 though
it means you have to discard that last card in hand, which is not ideal if you are holding protection
solemn canyon
yeah I feel like my deck rn is a deck that either pubstomps in B3 on turn 4 if I draw my fast mana or just slogs compared to b4
solemn canyon
it means you have to discard that last card in hand, which is not ideal if you a...
I mean since I play most of the wheels, I feel like it's great
deft belfry
the engine isnt keeping up with the premium gasoline
deft belfry
I mean since I play most of the wheels, I feel like it's great
it only applies to that first draw
solemn canyon
it only applies to that first draw
unlucky
deft belfry
but it is indeed one extra draw
its much funnier in that izzet
[[!eruth tormented prophet]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
i have an imcomplete deck idea using that and basically all the "double" draw replacements
hellbent at its finest
commander would have to be saraumon tho
the wheel one
solemn canyon
the fact that you can only play those cards the same turn you draw them would stress me out
I'd feel like I'm losing so much value
deft belfry
nah i would have small nonbos so i dont need all the cards
but i am looking at like draw 20+
the game better be over in 3 turns or else i have nothing to draw
[[fate shared]]
shrewd zealotBOT
solemn canyon
interesting
deft belfry
technically B2, just need as much wheels as i can
and being at lower brackets give me a reason not to have narset notion thief wheel lock
anyways, that mana rock maybe niche but it turns wheel for 7 into 8 cards
and T3 ramp is enough for a 5 mana commander
solemn canyon
anyways, that mana rock maybe niche but it turns wheel for 7 into 8 cards
yeah if only it were as good as alhammaret's archive, drawing 14 would be delectable
deft belfry
[[uba mask]] to impulse 14 and deck yourself 😄
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
ez
let me know when you are stressed out, i will enjoy seeing that
jk btw, impulse draw is a nonbo with lorehold
if i am a B4 player, i would have uba mask in every deck that i plan on playing against rhystic/tithe
[[$uba mask]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
😢
solemn canyon
https://scryfall.com/card/chk/272/uba-mask
not too bad
solemn canyon
if i am a B4 player, i would have uba mask in every deck that i plan on playing ...
yeah honestly smart
deft belfry
instead i run fate shared in my janky B2 decks
solemn canyon
it's a cool card, cant blame you
deft belfry
so the game is a complete mess seeing each other's decks
well its sort of stax-y
my fav blue enchantment [[shared fate]] and my favourite red enchantment [[possibility storm]]
deft belfry
if i put all my pet cards in a deck, i am just playing stax storm
solemn canyon
I love possibility storm in Mishra
deft belfry
that one i took apart because its too durdly with not enough win con
its consistent enough to go against B3 without using GC cards
but hell are the turns long
if i dont get P storm, basically the secret commander, that game isnt ending anytime soon
if i get it, the table is now playing twice as long and that game isnt ending even sooner
solemn canyon
if i dont get P storm, basically the secret commander, that game isnt ending any...
yeah thats my fear with certain control decks
deft belfry
P storm + cascade storm tho
the count go so high
oh
you can actually using that with lorehold
put the spell type you want on it
5 lands ontop of sorcery with scroll rack, cast sorcery, put all those lands on the bottom
and since its naturally a stax enchantment, it will slow down what others are doing as well as become a removal magnet
not sure, but i think the trick to B4 lorehold might be weird stax cards that is usually too slow to be played
also cascade
since they will give you extra spells for free/discovery better cascade
[[!chimil inner sun]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
i dont think [[horn's annex]] matters enough i would probably just cut that
shrewd zealotBOT
Artifact
(
can be paid with either 
or 2 life.)
Creatures can't attack you or planeswalkers you control unless their controller pays for each of those creatures.
deft belfry
but i do have my bais against white since i just block with face
solemn canyon
and since its naturally a stax enchantment, it will slow down what others are do...
oh shit I didn't notice it was for every player
deft belfry
XD
guess you never played against P storm enough times
its like 50/50 whenever someone hate that card or love that card
solemn canyon
guess you never played against P storm enough times
I highkey haven't played a commander game in 2 years lmao
deft belfry
ah fair
solemn canyon
I've spent more time building decks than playing
deft belfry
i skipped magic between summer of 2020 -sometime 2022
other than that about 13+ years now
solemn canyon
i skipped magic between summer of 2020 -sometime 2022
yeah I get u
solemn canyon
other than that about 13+ years now
what set did you start with
deft belfry
i didnt own my own cards early on
first time i bought a pack and from a set was already 2012
oh wait i definitely played longer than 13 years then
first time i played mtg was 2008 60 cards casual
solemn canyon
first time i played mtg was 2008 60 cards casual
I lowk was born 2 years earlier 😭
deft belfry
did you learn to read at the age of 2
solemn canyon
nah so you were def a better mtg player than me at the time
deft belfry
so for me it was more like 2010 - current
solemn canyon
so for me it was more like 2010 - current
2020 for me I think
deft belfry
but prior to that i have all the knowledge of ygo / turn based/ card related games
solemn canyon
M20/baldur's gate were my first sets
deft belfry
ah
solemn canyon
but prior to that i have all the knowledge of ygo / turn based/ card related gam...
yeah thats fire, I spent a while deciding which card game to get into before I chose magic
deft belfry
[[mirror of life trapping]] as someone who knows nothing about those DnD they have some interesting favourful things added to mtg
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
my childhood was pokemon
solemn canyon
silver is top 2 in the franchise imo
deft belfry
i spent the most time in Pearl then bit less in Platinam
teenager adolescent was ARAM in LOL
but i havent played too many other games
solemn canyon
i spent the most time in Pearl then bit less in Platinam
teenager adolescent was...
you lost me at LOL smh
deft belfry
never had PSP or steam games etc
ARAM isnt the same as regular LOL
had to clarify that
solemn canyon
never had PSP or steam games etc
I feel you, I was always a nintendo kid
solemn canyon
smart
deft belfry
i am just not the most competitive person
otherwise unethical behavior within the confine of rules feels like a fair game
solemn canyon
i am just not the most competitive person
yeah and league is def not the place you want to be with a non competitive mindset
deft belfry
thats probably where i was different, i play my games like i am in a sandbox mode
solemn canyon
otherwise unethical behavior within the confine of rules feels like a fair game
yeah I agree, I dont really like when B2 pods get mad for little things like attacking them or whatnot
deft belfry
so i can find enjoyment out of how i play rather than what others are not playing typing with their keyboard
i get the most out of B2 in my case
if someone get mad from being attacked, they are either being small bean or too autistic to play a game
if it was like a super early turn one shot then it make sense to be salty about
solemn canyon
if someone get mad from being attacked, they are either being small bean or too ...
real, I've prob just encountered a disproportionate amount compared to the b2 playerbase as a whole
do you play often?
also in person or online
deft belfry
also, they can only get mad so many times, if i see that reaction, i am attack the same player some more XD
try at least once a week at LGS
no set up at home, trying to do one for spelltable
easier to test things out
solemn canyon
no set up at home, trying to do one for spelltable
yeah I find spelltable to be more fun than tabletop sim
but since I also dont have a setup, tabletop sim does the job
long geode
1) mainly to copy commander for a 2nd one
2) end up with 3 power which bypass th...
Yes, to be honest i had several issues with my copies having more than 2 power which can't trigger [[!delney streetwise lookout]], such as [[!Irma, Part-Time Mutant]], or [[!helm of the ghastlord]]. I'm considering to cut the delney instead to be honest and just hope for [[!Roaming Throne]] to come. What do you think?
long geode
from play texting, how useful is [[mithril coat]] thats one of the expensive car...
I can't say much about this, it's somewhat situational depending on who I play against with to be honest
if i'm lucky then i can equip mithril coat and swiftfoot boots to my Y'shtola and she's somewhat untouchable
since mithril coat costs 3, it triggers y'shtola. also equip when ETB and has flash
but against exile or trample, can't do nothing much
deft belfry
i dont think delney is the best cut consider its power, and you can always copy delney will Irma as well the 3 mana clone is worth the cost
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
delney also makes doing combat damage with Yshotla much easier
the moment helm is onto something i think you are already in a good spot
long geode
the moment helm is onto something i think you are already in a good spot
i guess you're right
i just swapped bolas' citadel for rhystic study for now. we'll see how it goes
plush heron
https://deckcheck.co/app/deckview/56d08adde3324f5f41314601931cf892
I'm having real trouble with this one. I'd like it to be more competitive without spending too much more money on it. In my experience, I never am able to get anything in my graveyard.
I have Buried Alive and Secrets of the Dead coming but I feel like its not coming together.
deft belfry
i just swapped bolas' citadel for rhystic study for now. we'll see how it goes
yeah, i think the card choice and ratios are already looking pretty good consider how much draws and things that works with the game plan are in the deck. i would focus more on the play pattern as well as interactions, timing on controlling the game to secure a win.
There maybe minor adjustment if you find certain things to be lacking/too much
deft belfry
https://deckcheck.co/app/deckview/56d08adde3324f5f41314601931cf892
I'm having r...
i think you somewhat answered your question already, high curve low ramp count not enough ways to set up grave
if you can craft the perfect opening hand and not miss any land drops, what can you do
even after 3 turns for a total of 10 cards "opening"
a dimir deck that is going to cast around 1 zombie per turn would always be a bit slower, and you may still want open mana to react to incoming threats
nothing wrong with using cheap/bulk cards but if they dont have the synergy then the cards are more 'additive' than 'multiplicative' to your game
plush heron
Are there any cards that can fix it?
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
[[!gisa geralf]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
because by itself, what do you think of the card
plush heron
Ideally, I'd like to make a bunch of zombies that beat people to death
In practice, I never draw zombies and more often than not Gisa and Geralf might as well say "Mill 4 lands"
I have other stuff in there that should help mill but I never see them. I've played 10 games and Stitcher Supplier has never shown up. He's the dead beat dad of my deck. Outside of something like a traumatize, I don't know other options to mill myself in a way I'd like.
deft belfry
Ideally, I'd like to make a bunch of zombies that beat people to death
to make lot of zombie, you may want more token generation/value
so for gisa missing mill, it probably means there arent enough zombies
but the current list include [[spark reaper]] [[lazotep reaver]] which are not really worth in the 99
shrewd zealotBOT
Creature — Zombie
, Sacrifice a creature or planeswalker: You gain 1 life and draw a card.
"I know they're unstoppable fighters created to harvest souls—it's just they're so rude about it." —Kaya
2/3
deft belfry
some cards say zombie on them but arent really support cards for zombies [[army of the damned]][[necromancy seleciton]][[cruel revivial]] etc
shrewd zealotBOT
Sorcery
Create thirteen tapped 2/2 black Zombie creature tokens.
Flashback 
(You may cast this card from your graveyard for its flashback cost. Then exile it.)
Sometimes death comes knocking. Sometimes it tears down the walls.
deft belfry
with that cost, you are also not doing much with those cards in your hand, and gisa cant make use of them in grave
like, even if cruel revival cost like 3, i still think its not great as a card because your commander can already bring back zombie spells for you
plush heron
I'm thinking of getting rid of Zombie Apocalypse because it's never been a good idea
deft belfry
[[zombie apocalypse]] i think it is thematic but not that useful especially with a human commander
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
it's.... okay
the wipe part can hit some stuff in the game
mainly for you to bring a big grave. back for a typal [[return from dark realm]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
but the problem isnt the revive part
its not having a consistent engine to get things into the grave
like, i probably wouldnt use [[!codex shredder]] in this type of deck, but for the purpose of early game card that can mill, i imagine it would be doing more for you just by being able to mill 1 each turn
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
by the time you can get commander out, i think you will at least have a zombie or two in grave
the quickiest 'fix' you can do right now is drop a few 5+mana cost sorcery
and change them into zombie creature cards
i dont usually play over 37 lands so i would also swap a land for one more ramp rock
[[crowded crypt]] has a bit of a zombie theme to it. i think i prefer the wheel such as [[midnight clock]] but it does shuffle your grave away so its probably not as good with gisa
shrewd zealotBOT
Artifact
: Add .
Whenever a creature you control dies, put a corpse counter on this artifact.
, , Sacrifice this artifact: Create a 2/2 black Zombie creature token with decayed for each corpse counter on this artifact. (A creature with decayed can't block. When it attacks, sacrifice it at end of combat.)
Artifact
: Add .
: Put an hour counter on this artifact.
At the beginning of each upkeep, put an hour counter on this artifact.
When the twelfth hour counter is put on this artifact, shuffle your hand and graveyard into your library, then draw seven cards. Exile this artifact.
deft belfry
unless you already got what you need into play
draw new 7 is usually worth it
12 upkeep is exactly 3 turn cycles if it is played at sorcery speed
overall, if you want to use gisa and geralf
need around 10+ cards that say something about putting zombies into the grave
wicked gust
dude i won the first game with klothys lol it was so fun
i did find one planesw3alkwer was dog water [[chandrea ablaze]] i almost never had a red card other than [[jayas phoenix]] and she sat att the same loyalty the whole game not able to do anything
wicked gust
so i cut her for [[chandra dressed to kill]]
shrewd zealotBOT
Legendary Planeswalker — Chandra
+1: Add . Chandra deals 1 damage to up to one target player or planeswalker.
+1: Exile the top card of your library. If it's red, you may cast it this turn.
−7: Exile the top five cards of your library. You may cast red spells from among them this turn. You get an emblem with "Whenever you cast a red spell, this emblem deals X damage to any target, where X is the amount of mana spent to cast that spell."
Loyalty: 3
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
dude i won the first game with klothys lol it was so fun
it never won before?
deft belfry
i did find one planesw3alkwer was dog water [[chandrea ablaze]] i almost never h...
technically if you are willing to lose a card
you can still do the +1
since that discard is an effect
i am more into the -2 and ignore the ultimate because your deck dont really have much instant sorcery to begin with
putting everyone at 3 new cards will mess up enough game plans imo
to me, the worst chandra is the pure damage one and its like 6 mana for a [[shock]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
i dont even have room for a bolt in my red decks consider how bad card advantage red has
i like dress to kill
3 drop easy to play, has flexibility between "draw" and "ramp"
weaker but versatile
deft belfry
https://scryfall.com/card/m13/123/chandra-the-firebrand
meh on firebrand since you cant really use the -2
the chandra from spark of war maybe okay? jsut because it just sits until it becomes impulse draw
wicked gust
it never won before?
no the first game of the new vers=ion
deft belfry
well i am not the one who cares about win/WR the most
i only care when the deck runs smooth and doing the 'fun' thing
certain ones like secret commander is sort of a challenge
wicked gust
it definitely did that
deft belfry
budget sometimes is hard to
wicked gust
it was fun and smooth
deft belfry
currently iknow i cant get the pauper deck to work
wicked gust
so tied between [[dressed to kill]] and [[fire artisan]] ?
shrewd zealotBOT
Legendary Planeswalker — Chandra
+1: Add . Chandra deals 1 damage to up to one target player or planeswalker.
+1: Exile the top card of your library. If it's red, you may cast it this turn.
−7: Exile the top five cards of your library. You may cast red spells from among them this turn. You get an emblem with "Whenever you cast a red spell, this emblem deals X damage to any target, where X is the amount of mana spent to cast that spell."
Loyalty: 3
deft belfry
your infinite budget makes your easier to swap around 😆
deft belfry
dress to kill probably more versatile
fire artisan kinda sits until she takes damage
but artisan let you play lands
deft belfry
i never had it in a commander game so its hard to tell
wicked gust
And I like the art more and lower curve
deft belfry
my experience with planeswalker are all over the place
i have to basically have to* be winning really hard to ultimate something
so planeswalkers may as well have just the first two activated abilities
and whatever static ability
they are just battles with extra words on them
wicked gust
Funny enough the ultimate of [[bold Pyromancer]] and then doubled with [[solphim]] and [[Peregrine dynamo]] won me the game
shrewd zealotBOT
Legendary Planeswalker — Chandra
+1: Add . Chandra deals 2 damage to target player.
−3: Chandra deals 3 damage to target creature or planeswalker.
−7: Chandra deals 10 damage to target player and each creature and planeswalker they control.
Loyalty: 5
Legendary Creature — Phyrexian Horror
If a source you control would deal noncombat damage to an opponent or a permanent an opponent controls, it deals double that damage to that player or permanent instead.
, Discard two cards: Put an indestructible counter on Solphim. ( can be paid with either or 2 life.)
5/4
Legendary Artifact Creature — Construct
Haste
, : Copy target activated or triggered ability you control from another legendary source that's not a commander. You may choose new targets for the copy. (Mana abilities can't be targeted.)
Jhoira stumbled upon an ally, not just a good source of spare parts.
1/5
deft belfry
And I like the art more and lower curve
so you are picking dress to kill?
wicked gust
Ye
deft belfry
right we added oeregrine
thats a card i have yet to have a deck for
but i did get myself a universal copy effect parkers camera
trigger ability is what i want
even if its just card draw
wicked gust
Lol
deft belfry
peregrine is nice here since it has toughness to block with
wicked gust
Exactly
deft belfry
my planswalker deck i added [[flumph]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
but i dont have many ways to do damage to it
so its probably just waiting for a block or deter attacks coming my way
i dont own the token elspeth to make 3 blockers and will probably never get the expensive broken good elspeth
i have freaken gideons
mainly the bad ones
wicked gust
Lol
deft belfry
i have decks that can run [[chimeric egg]] with counter synergy, but i am tempted to see if i can use it as a regular blocker
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
and play some chicken-game with blocks
"Do you give me the one" "If you attack me i will kill it"
deft belfry
i wonder if i have a way to use [[!hedron matrix]] its so overcosted at 8 mana or two turns after getting 4 mana, and still need a high cmc creature
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
@wicked gustyou got a commander for this?
i guess gilgamesh can... but no natural invasion
deft belfry
i guess its a matter of balancing
the total 4 cost and the P/T you get
on something that can put the damage through
like, there are enough small red creatures that reduce casting/equip cost the same way [[colosus hammer]] be bad yet playable
shrewd zealotBOT
Artifact — Equipment
Equipped creature gets +10/+10 and loses flying.
Equip 
(: Attach to target creature you control. Equip only as a sorcery.)
"There's only one way to be sure it's really dead."
deft belfry
that one technically cost 9 to give 10
so matrix requires a big creature that can be cheated into play
and then ways to cheat the equipment on it
and maybe for efficient purpose, able to give it double strike from whatever boros buff
trample is sometimes easier
i may try Sami
paying 4 is low enough and double strike vigilance allows for quadruple dipping on damage x offense and defense
just no trample/ flying
wicked gust
sami i be great in tbh
wicked gust
im not sure if token doublers be a good idea in the quintorisu phoenix deck...
shrewd zealotBOT
Artifact Creature — Dragon
Domain — This spell costs less to cast for each basic land type among lands you control.
Flying
Domain — At the beginning of your upkeep, sacrifice this creature unless you pay 
. This cost is reduced by for each basic land type among lands you control.
9/9
deft belfry
thats a 25/25 flying
deft belfry
im not sure if token doublers be a good idea in the quintorisu phoenix deck...
probably not
you just need to type 'token' in the search and see how many shows up
and determine if thats an important theme for you
minor heron
I am very new to Mtg and EDH. I have updated the First Flight Precon and would love for you to take a look. I am pretty sure I have too many lands at this point, so would love some suggestions to swap out. Also I think I am pretty vulnerable to board wipes so suggestions for that would be great as well. Thanks!! https://moxfield.com/decks/EPWWBMIK9kWDaP6CqWVlRg
deft belfry
biggest missed oppotunity is to have flash spells in here
30 basics is ofc very high, you are prepared to get flooded
a curve this low would probably not need more than 37 lands
while its not always true, lower cost spells tends to provide less value than a higher cost one; generally speaking
so the more small value things will result in lesser payoff while they are easy to cast multiple per turn. i think it is quite possible that you wont have enough damage to finish off the opponent
not sure how you ended up with [[!errant and giada]] as the commandder
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
unlike the precon face commander, this pairing doesnt exactly draw cards.
while you have mana open, and the top deck is one of those things, you basically have that one extra card in hand
while indirectly, it is almost like having a [[herald's horn]]
shrewd zealotBOT
Artifact
As this artifact enters, choose a creature type.
Creature spells you cast of the chosen type cost less to cast.
At the beginning of your upkeep, look at the top card of your library. If it's a creature card of the chosen type, you may reveal it and put it into your hand.
deft belfry
not a card i particularly like in tribal/typal decks
anyways, i think you can try to play around with 'knowing the top of your deck" as it could become a big focus for this commander
and rather than just counterspells and removal
i think its more important to have flexible instants where you can cast even if you dont see something you want to use it on
its also okay to have non flyers if you find anything that interest you
before worrying about boardwipes
just need to add more creatures
minor heron
Thanks for the suggestions! Definitely still have work to do and this is really helpful.
long geode
https://archidekt.com/decks/22346209/yshtola
Hi, I just started playing EDH rece...
I forgot to ask regarding my deck. do you have any recommendation to switch the fast lands? i think i will keep my slow lands
deft belfry
I forgot to ask regarding my deck. do you have any recommendation to switch the ...
two or less lands and two or more lands are the cycles that contradict each other
i think you care more about untaps 'after 3 lands' rather than early game having only 2 on board. so [[!deserted beach]]/ [[!shipwreck marsh]] is usually the one that people use in commander
deft belfry
[[!starting town]] havent seen this one in commander
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
i think i want untap land late game to cast all those big spells
i wouldnt play more than 1 of the Before T4 land drop enters untapped. Yshtola is looking for the long game of control and lock
the only time it really matters if you want to play a mana rock the same turn
deft belfry
i checked, with your one drop spells being offer you can refuse, curiousity malakir rebirth, outside of T2 ramp, the 2=< untaps arent really that great imo
T1 land can almost always be tapped even if you delay sol ring to T2
https://scryfall.com/search?q=is%3Afilterland+(b%3Ashm+or+b%3Aody)&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name i would run this cycle due to budget reason. if you expect to see nonbasic MLD they are weak. otherwise they are just fine
once i had played [[damping sphere]] and it hurt the one running all those 'signet lands' i think it was [[!ferrous lake]] or[[!skycloud expanse]] something
shrewd zealotBOT
Artifact
If a land is tapped for two or more mana, it produces instead of any other type and amount.
Each spell a player casts costs more to cast for each other spell that player has cast this turn.
A Thran relic, it has spent ten thousand years doing absolutely nothing.
deft belfry
what are the "fast lands"? the check lands that need a basic land type in play, can be risky if you only got typeless lands early on
but other than that i dont see what oyu meant by fast lands
wicked gust
barely won the last game i had with the phoenix deck, dude had a thing that made me mill and i had all the stuff to win lol
long geode
but other than that i dont see what oyu meant by fast lands
Ah sorry, what I meant by fast lands are: If you control 2 or more lands, this land comes in tapped
In comparison, the slow lands are: if you control 2 or less lands, this land comes in tapped
deft belfry
Ah sorry, what I meant by fast lands are: If you control **2 or more lands**, th...
XD lol those are normally the other way around, but i guess i have the right thing in mind. yeah i want your "fast lands" to stay since they enter untapped later in the game as your "slow lands" are only go til third land drop
i think having early mana is esply important in 1vs1 format where you cant just skip a turn without any ways to do something with your mana and keep up the tempo/ efficiency/etc
so the early game untapped lands are usually the fast lands. late game untapped lands would be the slow lands
"The faster your game ends, the least you will draw and there would be less lands you will get to play. Thus fast lands?" idk forsure what the more official name for them are
deft belfry
I may need some help on my vamp deck, it does blood token stuff but idk
a vampire deck that isnt the most popular vampire! whats this?
seriously, where did you get this 8x8 from XD
i see limited ways of gaining life
so [[vito thorn dusk rose]] becomes noticeably weak. unless you want to use that overcosted ability
shrewd zealotBOT
Legendary Creature — Vampire Cleric
Whenever you gain life, target opponent loses that much life.
: Creatures you control gain lifelink until end of turn.
"Through the blood of the wicked, we shall be redeemed. Let us pray."
1/3
deft belfry
even then the avg power of your creature are kinda smoll
its probably a value aristrocrat deck in the long run
going to see if [[inspired statuary]] works here
shrewd zealotBOT
Artifact
Nonartifact spells you cast have improvise. (Your artifacts can help cast those spells. Each artifact you tap after you're done activating mana abilities pays for .)
Ghirapur's most celebrated inventors have been immortalized in clockwork.
deft belfry
it sucks that there are so much abilities in the deck so your curve is kinda messy
each blood cost 1 but you would lose value for card selection and grave set up
and lot of the good things arent vampires [[mayhem devil]]
shrewd zealotBOT
wicked gust
seriously, where did you get this 8x8 from XD
I said it before a deck building method a friend and his friends came up with that wanted me to test out, so far it's working well
wicked gust
going to see if [[inspired statuary]] works here
...it does....it helped me survive the last game
It's in there already
deft belfry
how was the game play so far
wicked gust
It saved my ass last game, but the game took 2 hours, constant board wipes and then a guy was milling everyone and another Counterspelling everything so I left. I wasnt able to do much
I was unlucky and had zero ways to draw cards after 2 hours...the ibly ones I managed were milled
Had all the removal thoigh
But they came back
deft belfry
It saved my ass last game, but the game took 2 hours, constant board wipes and t...
i am not surprised. it seems like most of your games will last more than 8-10 turns, maybe a perfect start from soemone to be 7 or less
but 2 hrs can also mean some from of slow play and politic
what is ibly
one of the problem is see from your so called "template" is that it disregard whatever the game plan is and try to force yourself have a minimal threshold of certain themes and categories
while it is nice to have a decent "balance" for each thing you want... it creates more imbalance depends on your commander
i forgot the exact wording and phrasing. Basically, if for example, the commander is a draw engine, then with a guarantee way of card draw in the command zone, the 99 can have less of those. effect and still make up for card advantage. and then it makes more sense to add in other things such as more ramp to get the commander out ASAP or more removals spells to draw into.
a deck that runs a high curve would naturally wants more ramp than one that is using the lowest & most efficient curve
i run an upward of 15 ramp source in my rakdos deck because i want to play with 7+ mana worth of spells
i may have threw efficiency out the window, but it ensures the deck to be able to cast my high drop
this card [[!scion of opulence]] reminds me of one of my favourite [[professional face breaker]]
deft belfry
while not on the same power/utility, i guess thats the closest you have in vampires
for the most part, because [[!anje maid of dishonor]] just cares about vampires entering each turn
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
more vampires entering per turn doesnt give any more value
so i think the play pattern is somewhat like a Bloodline keeper + [[sting, the glinting dagger]]
shrewd zealotBOT
Legendary Artifact — Equipment
Equipped creature gets +1/+1 and has haste.
At the beginning of each combat, untap equipped creature.
Equipped creature has first strike as long as it's blocking or blocked by a Goblin or Orc.
Equip
deft belfry
if possible
underwise, getting just 1 or 2 blood per round is really good enough
in that sense, i think having more vampires actually doesnt matter that much. its about having the vampires that gives you the most board pressence
with Anje alone casted, you will have at least 4 mana each turn. so anything at that point can be a vampire entering and makes blood. if have more open mana, then it can be used for either blood sac or reactive speeds
spells*
harder to write on it than i anticipanted but here's a quick pic
there are hardly things you can call disrupt here?
counterspells for red x4 (can coincidentally kill something else but more niche)
[[!sorin the mirthless]] doesnt kill things
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
in the rare case you can ultimate sorin, its probably a burn to the face
[[dark confidant]] was it called
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
that sorin is card draw at a high cost
so other than the boardwipes, the deck has about 5 or less cards that can really kill creature on their own
even if new blood take control doesnt trigger anje, i think it is still one of the best vampire support cards in the game, to turn someone's problematic creatures back on them. ofc it is better in theory because there are going to be games where you have nothing good to steal or he just dies right after because it is too big of a threat/they need their commander back
while idc what vampires are used (can pretty much be anything for the blood trigger) would like to point out that without a big wide board [[sanctum seeker]] is especially. bad for scaling
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
of if you can somehow keep 5-10 vampires on board and attack all out, it is a good win con
its not the worst, just find it difficult to get the proper payoff
i havent looked at too many vampires, [[rakish heir]] probably wont trigger much without envasive combat tricks
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
2 drop works are perfect for anje, and then throw down other vampires after that
the core of the deck works
just some dead/weak cards here and there
this one looks fun [[!mirri the cursed]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
i guess flying is one of the few things going for it, the body is kind of meh
if not answered and most casual pods dont have flying blockers, it can become a clock. not supposed to but it can happen
wicked gust
So, what should I do then?
Cause I did make another version but idk if its better or worse
The issue is if im not making blood tokens a lot than it's just a semi weak vamp deck
fresh tapir
https://moxfield.com/decks/fVf1e7W7m0WahzYEqLJsbw
Just threw this together at work, bracket 3 is the goal ofc
Anything key im missing?
deft belfry
https://moxfield.com/decks/MwMq37WbUEmxF7jSbLfbNw
kinda doing the same but turns blood into 1/1s instead and have assess to white cards
i think its more important to split which vampire better with which (if not works for both) and build a divide from there
i will probably ignore the lands since i dont think thats the main issue or focus of the deck
anje doesnt have the same assess to killing 1/1s with skullclamp/ white game ending big spells. but i do think blood is a cooler focus than spawning with markov's eminence (which is probably due to how popular it is and everyone either seen it or assume its going to be strong enough to be the archenemy of the game)
deft belfry
harder to write on it than i anticipanted but here's a quick pic
Just realized how i spelt control with an 'n' at the end this morning XD dang i was not awake
i swear my writing looked better to me this morning, someone made it look worse while i was gone
deft belfry
The game plan was wizards, sorcerers/elementals its started as a ball of flame k...
i guess we never finished with this, didnt we. any new update?
deft belfry
https://moxfield.com/decks/fVf1e7W7m0WahzYEqLJsbw
Just threw this together at wo...
whats the win con? value engine overrun?
fresh tapir
Ya
deft belfry
will take some more time with untagged cards
the obvious stuff like single target interaction doesnt matter but its the core of the deck
enchantments are all stuck together
[[summon alexander]] and all the weird stuff that are hard to use
shrewd zealotBOT
Artifact — Equipment
Equipped creature gets +1/+1.
: Exile this Equipment, then return it to the battlefield transformed under its owner's control. Activate only as a sorcery.
Equip
Summon: Alexander
Enchantment Creature — Saga Construct
(As this Saga enters and after your draw step, add a lore counter. Sacrifice after III.)
I, II — Prevent all damage that would be dealt to creatures you control this turn.
III — Tap all creatures your opponents control.
Flying
4/3
deft belfry
i dont see [[!satsuki the living lore]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
some colour imbalance thats easy to fix, to get the initial green source for ramping