#REVERSED! (EDH) Assistance!

1 messages · Page 18 of 1

cold quartz
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yeah i dont think im getting enough mana for that

deft belfry
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its so much worse than the green version

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that keeps all the tokens

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oh very minor thing about level 3 [[artist talent]]

shrewd zealotBOT
cold quartz
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[[aeon engine]]

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
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the persona TAKING the damage decides the order for the replacement effect

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yes thats the one

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and only in the game atm

cold quartz
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only one? damn

deft belfry
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maybe there is a silverborder card that do that but that idr

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#bringbackSilverBorder

cold quartz
deft belfry
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do the math, order of operation

cold quartz
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ooooh

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so they could do the +2 before a doubler?

deft belfry
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or double first then add

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to minimize the damage

cold quartz
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ah ok

deft belfry
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if its all multiplication, they dont have a choice

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x2 x3 x2

cold quartz
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i dont deal with replacement effects much

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interesting

deft belfry
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otherwise they will (assume you tell them the rule or redo) almost always take less amount because they can pick which replacement effect even though it is your ability

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multiple first, + X at the end

cold quartz
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that tempts me to leave it in even more just to do a bit of teaching with it

deft belfry
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ooh there is a doubler that cares about creature type from lorwyn ecliyse

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i think it has convoke too?

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unless i mixed up with city on fire

cold quartz
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so [[ojer axonil]] works the same way then because replacement effect right?

shrewd zealotBOT
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https://scryfall.com/card/lci/158/ojer-axonil-deepest-might-temple-of-power

Ojer Axonil, Deepest Might <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manar:292901508796645397><:manar:292901508796645397>

Legendary Creature — God
Trample
If a red source you control would deal an amount of noncombat damage less than Ojer Axonil's power to an opponent, that source deals damage equal to Ojer Axonil's power instead.
When Ojer Axonil dies, return it to the battlefield tapped and transformed under its owner's control.
4/4

Temple of Power
Land
(Transforms from Ojer Axonil, Deepest Might.)
manat: Add manar.
mana2manar, manat: Transform this land. Activate only if red sources you controlled dealt 4 or more noncombat damage this turn and only as a sorcery.
Chimil gave the Oltec passion. Ojer Axonil challenged them to harness it.

deft belfry
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hmmmm axonil i need to rule check [[?ojer axonil]]

shrewd zealotBOT
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https://scryfall.com/card/lci/158/ojer-axonil-deepest-might-temple-of-power#rulings

Rulings for Ojer Axonil, Deepest Might // Temple of Power
2023-11-10

While you control Ojer Axonil, Deepest Might, if an effect such as that of Chandra's Pyrohelix asks you to divide damage among targets, you must divide the unmodified damage.

2023-11-10

The comparison between the amount of noncombat damage being dealt and Ojer Axonil's power occurs only once, when the damage would be dealt. Reducing Ojer Axonil's power before noncombat damage is dealt may cause its replacement effect not to apply to that damage.

2023-11-10

If Ojer Axonil's second ability and additional replacement effects would modify how damage would be dealt, the player being dealt damage chooses the order in which to apply those effects.

2023-11-10

If a card that isn't a transforming double-faced card is a copy of Ojer Axonil, Deepest Might, it won't return to the battlefield when it dies.

2023-11-10

For the purpose of Temple of Power's last ability, you need to have controlled the red source that dealt noncombat damage only at the time that the damage was dealt. If it dies or changes control after that point, that damage will still count toward Temple of Power's activation restriction.

2023-11-10

The 4 or more noncombat damage may be dealt by multiple red sources you controlled. For example, if you cast a red spell that dealt 3 damage to a creature and then a red artifact you controlled dealt 1 noncombat damage to a creature, you could activate Temple of Power's last ability.

deft belfry
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this one is too busted i dont see it often

cold quartz
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prolly another one to put to the side like bergi then

deft belfry
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2023-11-10 If Ojer Axonil's second ability and additional replacement effects would modify how damage would be dealt, the player being dealt damage chooses the order in which to apply those effects.

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maybe a nonbo if you do more than Xpower damage

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[[violent urge]] i love sneaking efficient combat tricks in

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
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i never run lightning bolt, i think only amy of one lightning cares about that type of direct burn

cold quartz
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i probably wont be swinging out too much but it does sound fun to use between two opponents

deft belfry
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yeah, +1 double strike with double damage?

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thats one mana for +4 damage

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and double power from the creature

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whatever it is going to be, is more than 3 from bolt

cold quartz
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my opponents big dumb [[quakestrider ceratops]] is gonna go crazy

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
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but i cant bolt the bird with this one

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lol thats what your table plays?

cold quartz
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hahaha no but thats what i envision bracket 2 is

deft belfry
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ah

cold quartz
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my buddy was playing a snow deck the other day that did have just a 3 mana 3/3 because it was a snow permanent

deft belfry
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[[The colossal dreadmaw]]

shrewd zealotBOT
cold quartz
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hahaha yess

deft belfry
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except this one is freaken busted

cold quartz
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yeahh that ones pretty good

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turn your mana dorks into 6/6 with trample

deft belfry
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and those big green haste enabler because green can do everything

cold quartz
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true

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ah were you talking about this ashling earlier [[ashling flame dancer]]

shrewd zealotBOT
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https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/115/ashling-flame-dancer

Ashling, Flame Dancer <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manar:292901508796645397><:manar:292901508796645397>

Legendary Creature — Elemental Shaman
You don't lose unspent red mana as steps and phases end.
Magecraft — Whenever you cast or copy an instant or sorcery spell, discard a card, then draw a card. If this is the second time this ability has resolved this turn, Ashling deals 2 damage to each opponent and each creature they control. If it's the third time, add manarmanarmanarmanar.
4/4

deft belfry
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i am thinking of how to keep the spellcount high and still get a reasonable engine [[mahadi emporium master]]

shrewd zealotBOT
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https://scryfall.com/card/clb/282/mahadi-emporium-master

Mahadi, Emporium Master <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manab:292901508872273920><:manar:292901508796645397>

Legendary Creature — Devil
At the beginning of your end step, create a Treasure token for each creature that died this turn. (It's an artifact with "manat, Sacrifice this token: Add one mana of any color.")
"Welcome to the Wandering Emporium. Feel free to browse the bazaar. We have everything a lost soul could want, need, or afford."
3/3

deft belfry
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card advantage is always the struggle

cold quartz
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[[professor onyx]] is in my colors with magecraft

shrewd zealotBOT
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https://scryfall.com/card/dsc/153/professor-onyx

Professor Onyx <:mana4:292901508712890379><:manab:292901508872273920><:manab:292901508872273920>

Legendary Planeswalker — Liliana
Magecraft — Whenever you cast or copy an instant or sorcery spell, each opponent loses 2 life and you gain 2 life.
+1: You lose 1 life. Look at the top three cards of your library. Put one of them into your hand and the rest into your graveyard.
−3: Each opponent sacrifices a creature with the greatest power among creatures that player controls.
−8: Each opponent may discard a card. If they don't, they lose 3 life. Repeat this process six more times.
Loyalty: 5

deft belfry
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more guttersnipes XD

cold quartz
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yeah theyre all a different version of it :/

deft belfry
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+1 is card selection and advantage

cold quartz
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only other one would be [[spell satchel]]

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
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oohh isnt there one from OTJ

cold quartz
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besides the ones you said earlier i think those are the only other ones in my colors

deft belfry
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everything you do with 1 mana is kinda free so the rest of the deck becomes cantrip

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[[younger tor wauki]]

shrewd zealotBOT
cold quartz
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i was thinking about including him, but again another guttersnipe

deft belfry
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[[leyline dowser]] find what i was looking for

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
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it was OTC (OTJ precon) not OTJ

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i think its kinda meh

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maybe too desperate for card draw

cold quartz
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yeah pretty meh

deft belfry
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[[glittering stockpile]] for explosive turns

shrewd zealotBOT
cold quartz
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[[garland, knight of cornella]] lets me surveil

shrewd zealotBOT
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No card found for “garland, knight of cornella”

cold quartz
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[[garland, knight of cornelia]] 1 letter again

shrewd zealotBOT
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https://scryfall.com/card/fin/221/garland-knight-of-cornelia-chaos-the-endless

Garland, Knight of Cornelia <:manab:292901508872273920><:manar:292901508796645397>

Legendary Creature — Human Knight
Whenever you cast a noncreature spell, surveil 1. (Look at the top card of your library. You may put it into your graveyard.)
mana3manabmanabmanarmanar: Return this card from your graveyard to the battlefield transformed. Activate only as a sorcery.
"I, Garland, will knock you all down!"
3/2

Chaos, the Endless
Legendary Creature — Demon
Flying
When Chaos dies, put it on the bottom of its owner's library.
"Even as you die again and again, I shall return!"
5/5

deft belfry
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ah nice i forgot it is only 2 mana to cast

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as much as i love demons this one felt disappointing since i dont know about the game

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but the front is good here

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do you ever play with [[mindcrank]]

shrewd zealotBOT
cold quartz
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oooh [[bothersome quasit]] goad the biggest thing for protection

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
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its so troll and fun when people loses ton of life

cold quartz
deft belfry
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true, [[$bothersome quasit]] i am still waiting for its reprint

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
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only ever in that one precon

cold quartz
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thats 13?!

deft belfry
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yep

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otherwise it would be in all my decks

cold quartz
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good thing i play online 😎

deft belfry
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good thing i am too poor

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its not a problem for me when i cant afford it

cold quartz
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there ya go

deft belfry
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😎 💀

cold quartz
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[[manaform hellkite]]?

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
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oooh btw [[allure of the unknown]] i love that with like kaervek the merciless]]

shrewd zealotBOT
cold quartz
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wait wtf avatar?! [[longshot, rebel bowman]]

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
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oh yeah that one is probably the most busted red card from avatar

cold quartz
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all noncreature spells cost1 less? that is wild

deft belfry
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[[$longshot rebel bowman]]

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
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still worth the price tho

cold quartz
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cheaper than quasit lol

deft belfry
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yep

cold quartz
deft belfry
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[[kaervek the merciless]]

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
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giving them some thing so i can burn harder and refill my hand 😈

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but you dont need kaervek here

cold quartz
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could even just do a self wheel with [[valakut awakening]]

shrewd zealotBOT
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https://scryfall.com/card/znr/174/valakut-awakening-valakut-stoneforge

Valakut Awakening <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manar:292901508796645397>

Instant
Put any number of cards from your hand on the bottom of your library, then draw that many cards plus one.
"My ancestors reshaped the world to their vision. I have a few ideas of my own." —Tars Olan, stoneforge mystic

Valakut Stoneforge
Land
This land enters tapped.
manat: Add manar.
"I can hear the echo of their hammers, long stilled." —Tars Olan, stoneforge mystic

deft belfry
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[[wheel of misfortune]]?

shrewd zealotBOT
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https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/211/wheel-of-misfortune

Wheel of Misfortune <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manar:292901508796645397>

Sorcery
Each player secretly chooses a number 0 or greater, then all players reveal those numbers simultaneously and determine the highest and lowest numbers revealed this way. Wheel of Misfortune deals damage equal to the highest number to each player who chose that number. Each player who didn't choose the lowest number discards their hand, then draws seven cards.

cold quartz
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yeah

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why draw 1 card when i can draw 7

deft belfry
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as long as you find the new wheel that replace itself

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MDFC are easy swap with lands in the worst case if you cant find cut

cold quartz
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yeah if im spellslinger i probably want a lot of draw and less lands anyways

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no storm though, want value for my spells not storm off

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[[mysidian elder]] ramps me 2 turns faster to the flip

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
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yeah that works for the flip

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although you would then only have 2 wizards

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so thats like 2 guttersnipes tokens

cold quartz
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true, commander does stop making more post flip

deft belfry
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if there are ways to bounce

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then it would be really good

cold quartz
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[[red mages rapier]] prolly isnt good then for the same reason

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
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yeah thats not a very good prowess trigger for you

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and equip 3 basically makes it useless until late late game

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[[sanctum of eternity]] if you need another way to sneak in protection

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
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but its usually much better with etb commanders

cold quartz
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true, also gotta be careful about colorless lands with my current suite, lots of red pips about

deft belfry
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[[hall of oracles]] so many fun utility lands

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
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yeah

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maybe you do want that birgi [[runaway steamkin]]

shrewd zealotBOT
cold quartz
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[[vindictive flamestoker]] self wheel on a 1 drop

shrewd zealotBOT
cold quartz
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only 4 cards though sounds less good

deft belfry
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actually birgi might the worse of the bunch just because you dont keep that mana

shrewd zealotBOT
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No card found for “urbrask// the great furna”

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No card found for “ubask// the great furna”

cold quartz
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nooo urabrask

deft belfry
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[[urabrask// the great]]

shrewd zealotBOT
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https://scryfall.com/card/mom/169/urabrask-the-great-work

Urabrask <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manar:292901508796645397><:manar:292901508796645397>

Legendary Creature — Phyrexian Praetor
First strike
Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell, Urabrask deals 1 damage to target opponent. Add manar.
manar: Exile Urabrask, then return it to the battlefield transformed under its owner's control. Activate only as a sorcery and only if you've cast three or more instant and/or sorcery spells this turn.
4/4

The Great Work
Enchantment — Saga
(As this Saga enters and after your draw step, add a lore counter.)
I — This Saga deals 3 damage to target opponent and each creature they control.
II — Create three Treasure tokens.
III — Until end of turn, you may cast instant and sorcery spells from any graveyard. If a spell cast this way would be put into a graveyard, exile it instead. Exile this Saga, then return it to the battlefield (front face up).

deft belfry
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work thats the word

cold quartz
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[[$urabrask]]

shrewd zealotBOT
cold quartz
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oh cheaper than i thought, i thought he was like 60

deft belfry
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only 932 thats cheap for you

cold quartz
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hahaha easy

deft belfry
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you have to pay for online?

cold quartz
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only in my concience

deft belfry
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i got my as a lucky pull, but the next box i will be buying will be a long time from now

cold quartz
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wait wait wait

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[[vivi's persistance]] this one recurs itself

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
cold quartz
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no, ff set

deft belfry
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not from pack?

cold quartz
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🤷‍♂️

deft belfry
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i know about the card but never seen where it came out of

cold quartz
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scryfalling

deft belfry
cold quartz
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exactly

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only full art version jesus [[$vivi's persistance]]

shrewd zealotBOT
cold quartz
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says its 60 on moxfield

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well those are all the good sounding whenever i cast a noncreature spell cards thati saw

deft belfry
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dont know what that means

image.png
cold quartz
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idk either

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probably some new money grabbing scheme

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i switched to instant and sorcerys and this one is kinda funny [[aria of flames]] im not stuck in here with you, your stuck in here with me

shrewd zealotBOT
cold quartz
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wtf is this lol [[conspiracy]]

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
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huh

cold quartz
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sorry not that

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[[double stroke]]

shrewd zealotBOT
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https://scryfall.com/card/cns/4/double-stroke

Double Stroke

Conspiracy
Hidden agenda (Start the game with this conspiracy face down in the command zone and secretly choose a card name. You may turn this conspiracy face up any time and reveal that name.)
Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell with the chosen name, you may copy it. You may choose new targets for the copy.

deft belfry
#

oh

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yeah those are for draft

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take the crown

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fun stuff to open but they are as useful as the advertisement/token card in the pack

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would be an interesting add to a theme night

cold quartz
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yeah it sounds kinda cool to go for in commander

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double jeskas will anyone?

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[[goliath daydreamer]] sounds cool

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
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yeah that was a new card i saw at the top of edhrec list but

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you are not casting big spells

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this is basically a [[double vision]] on a creature

shrewd zealotBOT
cold quartz
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on a wizard 😄

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with no bergi type cards though it could still be worth if i can swing twice with it

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[[rite of the dragoncaller]] this unironically probably a finisher in b2

shrewd zealotBOT
cold quartz
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ok i kinda like whats happening here a bit more, what do you think for cuts?

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since i added more mdfcss i cut 2 lands so far

deft belfry
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hmm

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so many spells

cold quartz
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so far did some burn stuff banefire, lightning bolt, ghireds belligerance because i hate that card and torbran because he doesnt work with my tokens

deft belfry
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right

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[[Ghired's Belligerence]] dont want the populate?

shrewd zealotBOT
cold quartz
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1 more token when i can mayyybe put 4 mana into it instead of casting two different spells, naw

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when i was trying out someone elses deck with judith that card lost me hte game more than once because it was the only thing left

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and judith wasnt out for deathtouch

deft belfry
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yeah i guess you need that judith death touch

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to get the best out of the populate

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in there you can kill your own imps too

cold quartz
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true

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so yeah, better in judith and i didnt like it so even worse in this list

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[[isengard unleashed]] or other doublers fine for b2?

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
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that tripler can be scary

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but its not like B2 say you cannot* do big damage

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i think its when someone gets a really bad start

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do you want to attack into them with 6x damage commander

cold quartz
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yeah true

deft belfry
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fuk my typos

cold quartz
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haha i can read between the lines

deft belfry
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been awake for past 13 hrs

cold quartz
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there is a word where i drop all 3 of gratuitous violence, isengard, and insult

deft belfry
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brain shutting down lol

cold quartz
deft belfry
#

[[insult injury]]?

shrewd zealotBOT
cold quartz
#

yeah

deft belfry
#

depends on the day, 8+ hrs was at work

cold quartz
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yeah that is a pretty long day then

deft belfry
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cant play on Sunday cause at work

cold quartz
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idk i dont mind having the doublers because if people actually ever run removal then i wouldnt need to replay and then also reflip to have kill pressure

deft belfry
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yeah

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doublers are basically the less efficient doubling season

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they do nothing by themselves

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but 2^4 is basically lethal

cold quartz
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yeahhh

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which honestly sounds nice after having 10 turn games with my control deck 😅

deft belfry
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fair

cold quartz
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maybe drop all 3 sac outlets since i wouldnt want to sac anything

deft belfry
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i could have dealt 21 damage on someone that was emchanted by my [[grevious wound]] but i went easy on him and it did nothing that game

shrewd zealotBOT
#

No card found for “grevious wound”

cold quartz
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2 of them are lands though that would need replacing

deft belfry
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[[greiv wound]]

shrewd zealotBOT
#

No card found for “greiv wound”

deft belfry
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cant spelt

cold quartz
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thought you had it the first time

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hmm

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is 19 forms of card draw and 15 ramp enough to run 34 lands with mdfcs?

deft belfry
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how many are reaptable draws

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15 & 34 are on the slightly riskier side but doable

cold quartz
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not many

deft belfry
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[[sign in blood]] do need double black

shrewd zealotBOT
cold quartz
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ill probably drop elder and at least run 1 more land

deft belfry
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but it can shock someone too

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may drop a removal spell

cold quartz
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really, and here i was thinking i was light on it

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since like half arent efficient at all

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or only artifacts

deft belfry
#

as much as i hate to talk shit about MDFC [[fell the profane]]

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

when it is played as a land, its basically worse than a basic

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when played as a spell it is a worse murder

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its because it can be either

cold quartz
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true, in all the decks ive ran it in though i think ive casted it as a land once

deft belfry
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that it became a commander staple

cold quartz
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ah that makes sense

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[[murder]]

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
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so in a way, its feels dumb to pull in a generic and inefficient spell

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put in*

cold quartz
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i can get behind that reasoning

deft belfry
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just to have a higher spell count

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even tho you dont really plan on casting it as a spell

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i run it in a more control style deck

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that can afford the mana cost

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or [[rowan, scion of war]] so i can purposefully hurt myself

shrewd zealotBOT
cold quartz
#

should i replace it with a land you think or something like [[pact of the serpent]]?

shrewd zealotBOT
cold quartz
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asuming worse case and its a draw 2

deft belfry
#

cutting that put you at 33 lands?

cold quartz
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34

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yeah i should probably put in a land lol

deft belfry
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draw 2 would be pretty bad XD but its a nice draw spell

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34 is tight

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let me look at the curve again

cold quartz
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it doesnt look too bad, arguably too many 4s

deft belfry
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yeah i think i like 35 lands more, but its kinda perference at that point

cold quartz
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yeah im gonna replace it with a land for now until i test it a bit

deft belfry
#

i think the problem i see with [[!isengard unleashed]] is actually how it doesnt increase the initial burn damage

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
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and it cost 5 to start with

cold quartz
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yeah i was thinking that with the doublers

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besides the enchantment one

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but i do have some 1cmc spells

deft belfry
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but after that, triple damagfor one turn + 2-3 spells will probably end the game?

cold quartz
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10 that arent creatures

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oh wait vandalblast is being included in that, 9 in reality

deft belfry
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i would replace read the bones with the surveil counterpart

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spiderman has [[risky study]] and bloomburrow has something as well

shrewd zealotBOT
#

No card found for “risky study”

deft belfry
#

[[risky research]]

shrewd zealotBOT
cold quartz
#

whats the surveil one

deft belfry
#

there are two

cold quartz
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ah yeah thats better

deft belfry
#

same wording as that

cold quartz
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not a mind stone stan so i could be talked into replacing that too

deft belfry
#

is Abrade your only artifact removal

cold quartz
#

also vandalblast and untimely malfunction

deft belfry
#

because i often try to use [[liquimetal torque]] to deal with enchantment in rakdos

shrewd zealotBOT
cold quartz
#

or chaos warp

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yeah i like that option too

deft belfry
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abrade got power creeped by something but i cant find the name

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https://tagger.scryfall.com/tags/card/abrade

Scryfall Tagger
abrade · Card Tag

Magic: The Gathering cards tagged with "abrade" - Modal instant or sorcery spells that offer the option to either deal damage to creature(s) or destroy artifact(s).

★ Abrade
• Agate Assault
• A-Ready to Rumble
• Brotherhood's End
• Cast into the Fire
• Explosive Derailment
• Fiery Confluence
• Fiery Intervention

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its not here, its has a giant on it from new lorwyn set

cold quartz
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hmm

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[[giantfall]]?

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

YES

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otherwise, B2 often play at sorcery speed

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there is the one that can exile artifact

cold quartz
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yeah i suppose sometimes it would deal 4-5 dmg instead of 3

#

oo

deft belfry
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and doubler too

cold quartz
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yeah how much can i deal with indestructable rn

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that is something i overlooked in my henzie deck and couldnt deal with one because literally everything was destroy

deft belfry
#

XD

cold quartz
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chaos warp is pretty much it

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fandaniel if they have literally nothing else out

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and only if its a creature

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so yeah deffinitely could use an exilier

deft belfry
#

you are red, player removal is the real removal here

cold quartz
#

true

deft belfry
#

boardwipe = control, burn = go for the kill

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single target destroy is just the weird in between where it sometimes doesnt need to remove everything or feels bad to commit to it

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at least generally speaking

cold quartz
#

yeah in henzie it at least was on a body that swung in, drew me a card and sacrificed for value

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i honestly could probably use another wipe

deft belfry
#

i think when i have black, my go to board wipe is often [[living dead]]

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

but here its not working well

cold quartz
#

yeah not really

deft belfry
#

[[extinction event]] is low enough cost?

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

[[nightmare unmaking]] one sided

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

well g nite, i will revisit the deck later when i am more awake

cold quartz
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hmm, i dont even know how to think about that without playing this deck

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what do you think about [[chain reaction]]

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

awful

cold quartz
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sounds good i gotta make food anyways, ill catch you later

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ok hahaha

deft belfry
#

overcosted B act

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unless i am comboing with my [[stuff doll]] i cant get myself to run a 4 drop wipe that fails to kill

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

unless i have a weird enrage theme

cold quartz
#

ok what about [[last one standing]]

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

i am bias since its rakdos and thematic

cold quartz
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same haha thats kinda why i might pick that one

deft belfry
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also funny

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mathematically, the one who makes the most tokens will win

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20 creatures out, 10 are 1/1s, chances is that that 1/1 survives

cold quartz
#

too bad im not in blue to get the one that bounces tokens or nontokens

deft belfry
#

do the lottery one

shrewd zealotBOT
#

No card found for “neton's lottery”

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No card found for “neton lottery”

deft belfry
#

🛌 💤

sweet ember
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Yeah four mana initial cost since this is meant as a consistent threat to buy me time, or waste a removal, and just play with the players themselves, I think I’ll just run Helm of Possession

storm fox
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i did some math if i cast doppelgang targeting maralen and x elves, did i do the math correctly?

image.png
deft belfry
#

[[Maralen, fae ascen]]

shrewd zealotBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/ecl/233/maralen-fae-ascendant

Maralen, Fae Ascendant <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manab:292901508872273920><:manag:292901508654301185><:manau:292901508754702338>

Legendary Creature — Elf Faerie Noble
Flying
Whenever Maralen or another Elf or Faerie you control enters, exile the top two cards of target opponent's library.
Once each turn, you may cast a spell with mana value less than or equal to the number of Elves and Faeries you control from among cards exiled with Maralen this turn without paying its mana cost.
4/5

deft belfry
#

2 copy of maralen entering, should only be 3 Maralens on board, each triggering a 2 times, so thats 6 triggers, 2 cards each for a total of 12 cards. i think 24 is off

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and since the dead maralen will also be off the board, you cant actually get the second part to cast something for free from that maralen

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only the one that is alive would have milled 4 cards which can cast a spell

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3 enters = o, 1,2,3 (original + 3 clone, total 4) wait i forgot about the elves cioy

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copy

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so 2 copy of maralen entering on the first X = 2, also brings in 2 elves for example [[essense warden]]

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

3 maralen will then each sees 2 more elves, milling 4 more each so yes you are right, 24 total

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then X= 3, 3 maralen + 6 elves/faeries = 9 creature entering. so each maralen triggers 9 times, 4 x 9 x 2 = 72

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i think you are right

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(4) = 16 x5 x2

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((n)^2 * n+1 )*2 = Y

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replaced X with n and ^2 for square and * for x multiply

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Y = total mill cards

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or just use X
(X^2 * X+1) *2 = (2X^2)(2X+2) is that a quadratic equation look me long enough to see it

#

arent we ready for some YGO

#

||okay ... that card was a joke ... Based on this real one||

wicked gust
#

What sounds like a more fun way to do angel tribal?

Boros with a splash of equipment via [[Tiana ship]]

Typical mardu but [[kaalia zenith]]

Or a bit religious like all color [[Kenrith king]]

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

my favourite angel [[rakdos the deflier]]

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

is kenrith religious ?

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kaalia only reveal 1 of 6 so i think thats more like cantrip

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tiana is probably the colour you need the most but it only say aura equipment on it

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morophone can be angel tribal with all the colour pips

wicked gust
wicked gust
wicked gust
storm fox
#

Also, do you think maralen would be a b2 or b3 rn? So far i lost every match in b3 and won only 1 in b2, but multiple people told me it appeared to be a bracket 3 deck

storm fox
#

i have now added some cards to considering and some cards to maybe cuts in maralen,
do you think those might be worth switching out and play it in b3?

magic drift
deft belfry
deft belfry
deft belfry
#

i will look at the list again afterward

storm fox
storm fox
wicked gust
shrewd zealotBOT
frank bolt
#

Hey! Im brewing this Jon Irenicus deck which im having problems with. The game plan is to gift opponents either unblockable creatures or creatures with a down side. I'm trying to keep it somewhat toned down with the meanest ones. To protect Jon and myself I've included instants that protect him or make him come back, counterspells and "Pillow Fortress" cards. Im having hard time cutting stuff and keeping the deck focused. Atm there's way too many noncreature cards. Mind taking a look @deft belfry ?

deft belfry
# shrewd zealot https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/204/tiana-ships-caretaker

https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/166/rienne-angel-of-rebirth

Scryfall Magic: The Gathering Search
Rienne, Angel of Rebirth

{2}{R}{G}{W} • Legendary Creature — Angel • 5/4 • Flying Other multicolored creatures you control get +1/+0. Whenever another multicolored creature you control dies, return it to its owner's hand at the beginning of the next end step. • Dominaria United Commander (DMC) #166 • Illustrated by Kieran Yanner • Magic: The Gathering, MTG

deft belfry
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maybe you can have [[satoru imesawa]] with the unblockable small stuff to cheat bigger creature in

shrewd zealotBOT
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No card found for “satoru imesawa”

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No card found for “satoru sawa”

deft belfry
#

i dont really see the snergy of using [[repulse]] in this type of deck

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

[[exacuation]] can at least deal with a problematic situation somewhat but the fact that it resets everything you did with your commander's game plan feels a bit counter productive

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

idk how good those instant sorcery works for you in general [[keep safe]] why so many cantrip

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

i would always do [[living dead]] in majority if not all of my black decks

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

note that edict wipe would fail if it has become a 1 vs 1

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and those goaded creatures are still coming at you, but i think 1vs 1 your control plan is already working

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remember that irencus is basically [[assault suit]] in the commander zone that happens to draw cards

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

and goading is what makes it work

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[[mark of oni]] i believe this works

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

yep, stack end step trigger, give away a creature that you didnt own

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actually, you can just do

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[[wrong turn]] instead to steal etb ltb

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

i meant [[come back wrong]] oops

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

i find it funny how Jon Irenicus can technically goad himself

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as more and more player goad and grow him, he is forced to attack the remaining player who havent got to give him away

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somewhat like [[blim comedic genius]]

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

i believe there will be token decks that go wide enough to become an issue, so it would be nice to pick wipes that target/affect tokens

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i mentioned brainstorm above since it is a cantrip, rather than card draw

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its closer to a bad [[serum vision]] and certainly not [[ponder]]

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

if i have the [[teferi's timeless insight]] then the number changes

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

turns draw one, look at 2 into draw 4, look at 2
or [[the locus god]] more draw triggers

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

synergize with "if/when you draw card"

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i think going by that pattern, you will have like 10ish more cuts to make room for other things

sweet ember
#

Hey Monomon. I just wanted to ask if you think [[Dowsing Dagger]] is worth it. I know it's a bit slow, but I'll be realistic in that with how many birds I make it's effectively gonna be one mana, since I just need to time it such that I spend the four mana, attack, and get a Land that makes 3 mana

shrewd zealotBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/xln/235/dowsing-dagger-lost-vale

Dowsing Dagger <:mana2:292901509060886528>

Artifact — Equipment
When this Equipment enters, target opponent creates two 0/2 green Plant creature tokens with defender.
Equipped creature gets +2/+1.
Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to a player, you may transform this Equipment.
Equip mana2

Lost Vale
Land
(Transforms from Dowsing Dagger.)
manat: Add three mana of any one color.
The pirates had ventured into the interior for treasure. They found something far greater.

sweet ember
#

That and I realize I desperately need ways to produce more Blue pips because a lot of my Utility Lands make Colorless, but a lot are hard to let go of

deft belfry
#

XD haha and you are not even in 2+ colours

sweet ember
#

Oh god could you imagine

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The mana base is gonna be hell to build

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So many fetch lands and shit

deft belfry
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its not that hard, you can ru n zero fetches

sweet ember
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Oh alright

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Well thats a moot point for now anyways, since this Hermes deck is gonna cost a lot of money already

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I doubt Ill be building another deck until I finalize this, which is realistically gonna be 2-3 months to gather all the cards

deft belfry
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as long as it doesnt become a perpetual thing, to upgrade every deck to the brim of its power

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and you dont need to "fully finish" a deck b4 moving on

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so dowsing dagger

sweet ember
deft belfry
#

its a weird way to ramp or call it a ramp piece but in the right scenario its a lot of mana

sweet ember
deft belfry
#

because it can come out earlier but need another piece to use it

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if you play it before commander, there are no birds

sweet ember
deft belfry
#

after commander comes out, you do need another spell to make a bird

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then that bird has summoning sickness

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so on a turn where your evasive creative can swing, it cost 2 mana to get back 3

sweet ember
deft belfry
#

if it isnt a card you can play whenever, it will never be a land

sweet ember
#

I feel safer to spend the full cast cost+equip cost for to reduce the chances of it being destroyed

deft belfry
#

it is a conditional ramp,

sweet ember
deft belfry
#

instead of trying to turn it into a [[thran dynamo]] with extra step for less mana, you are better off with [[gilded lotus]] in that case

shrewd zealotBOT
sweet ember
#

Or if Im feeling risky drop it then wait next turn to equip

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Thingis Gilded Lotus is a 5 drop Artifact without a way to become safe as a Land, and Thran Dynamo makes Colorless pips which I already have an abundance of

deft belfry
#

if you have the best board state, [[coveted jewel]] without comboing with it is still nice to have fun with

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

if you are not green/fetch lands, you basically stuck with some form of artifact ramp

sweet ember
#

Ok yeah I can see Coveted Jewel, but I feel I have too many 5-6 drops already

deft belfry
#

the thran dynamo was the example of you trying to "cheat" out a gilded lotus as 4 mana

sweet ember
#

Thats why I liked Dowsing Dagger, since I can effectively cast it as a Thran Dynamo (Four Mana to get 3 back) that is less prone to removal and makes colored pips

sweet ember
deft belfry
#

dowsing should rarely be 4 mana for most decks

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well i guess there is a bulk card you can try

sweet ember
deft belfry
#

[[pryamid of the pantheon]]

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

and having a creature is technically a cost

sweet ember
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Oh ok

deft belfry
#

whenever it is a 1 drop, a token, or casting an [[ornithopter]] out of your hand

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

there is always a cost to that creature

sweet ember
deft belfry
#

a land dont normally have that cost, even [[lotus field]] will eventually make up for the mana your lost from the land sac

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

and in the causal social format

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lands basically lowkey say "indestructible" on them

sweet ember
deft belfry
#

not for this deck

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[[$lotus field]]

shrewd zealotBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/m20/249/lotus-field

Prices for Lotus Field
Edge of Eternities: Stellar Sights

$11.71 • €9.55 • 1.31 TIX

Edge of Eternities: Stellar Sights

$25.15 • €24.70 • 2.99 TIX

Edge of Eternities: Stellar Sights

$43.05 • €53.72 • 3.00 TIX

Edge of Eternities: Stellar Sights

$123.00 • €128.28 • 3.00 TIX

Secret Lair Countdown

$20.61

Core Set 2020 Promos

$10.60 • €5.66

Core Set 2020 Promos

$13.92 • €10.28

Core Set 2020

$8.01 • €6.40 • 1.16 TIX

deft belfry
#

maybe half its price but i am also cheap

sweet ember
deft belfry
#

but thats kinda for most ramp too

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you dont expect to see [[vadalblast]] every game

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

and if someone is getting to cast a 5 drop that doesnt progress their own game plan just to drag others down

sweet ember
#

Woah. Red Cyclonic Rift (Artifact Edition)

deft belfry
#

as the control deck, you either have enough card draws and consistent land drops

sweet ember
#

WAIT OVERLOAD IS COST REPLACEMENT? Damn I thought it was an additional cost. I've been playtesting Cyclonic Rift for two mana extra, damn

deft belfry
#

to hit a point where those artifact either doesnt matter anymore

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or you can deal with the wipe that hurt you the most

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lol

#

yes, overload is an Alternative cost

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not like kicker which is an additional cost

sweet ember
#

So... this means that Dowsing Dagger, while slow and vulnerable in high power games, is likely safe in the casual games that I plan to play in and will likely get safe almost immediately because of my abundance of evasive Creatures?

deft belfry
#

when you are able to cast a spell without playing the mana cost, you cannot pick an alternative cost, but you can add on the additional cost if it doesnt force you to pay for that

sweet ember
#

Ah, I see I see

#

So you can't cheat out board wipe Cyclonic Rift then

deft belfry
#

a land, cannot be countered, artifact spell can be. although i doube anyone cares about counting a 2 drop equipment

sweet ember
#

Yeah that was my thought process

deft belfry
#

if oyu are up against someone who pays close attention to every pieces you play and trying to stop you, i think your lands are not that much safer than your burst of mana rock ramp lol

sweet ember
#

If Im playing against another Blue player and they have a Counterspell free, they are either smart enough to save it for an engine or they just wasted it

deft belfry
#

its almost like say "i dont put sol ring because i am afraid of artifact removal"

sweet ember
#

In Bracket 3, not so much, its more likely to fall under the radar

deft belfry
#

i think dowsing is worth about 1.5 to 2 lands drop and if it fliped early game its very much a massive ramp in mana

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but i dont see that it as that important in a control build

sweet ember
#

And late game, it is very nice to pad out my Blue pips

deft belfry
#

because it is just not as stable and consistent

#

as hitting more island land drops

sweet ember
deft belfry
#

if i played 2 lands by not missing any land drops

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lands that makes blue

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i should be fine?

sweet ember
#

There is extra potential in copying it with [[Thespian Stage]] though. Its exactly the kind of Land that I got Thespian Stage for after all

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

so that shifts the entire discussion toward, "Do i want to greed another non creature spell into the deck, even at the cost of a land"

deft belfry
#

[[dark depth]] know this card?

shrewd zealotBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/244/dark-depths

Dark Depths

Legendary Snow Land
Dark Depths enters with ten ice counters on it.
mana3: Remove an ice counter from Dark Depths.
When Dark Depths has no ice counters on it, sacrifice it. If you do, create Marit Lage, a legendary 20/20 black Avatar creature token with flying and indestructible.

sweet ember
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

it doesnt make mana but is probably the infamous land that "works" with thespian stage

sweet ember
#

I think the potential is worth it, because I still have 36 Lands or (effectively Lands like Sol Ring or Lorien Revealed (and if Cycle Lands/Fetch Lands count as Lands then so does this card)

deft belfry
#

😅

sweet ember
deft belfry
#

when you starting counting sol ring as a land but k. i think it is safer to keep that land count on the higher side but its still doable

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so the dark depth + stage is basically creating the 20/20 as the expand of 2 lands, land drops of those 2 lands, and activating stage once etc

#

while it is colourless and can be in any commander deck

sweet ember
deft belfry
#

it is sort of like a 2 card combo that no one really runs unless their deck really cares about lands, and/or play lands from grave

sweet ember
#

In this case the it doesnt sacrifice a Land, gets me a bird, and gives me much needed Blue fixing, and one of the more important aspects, it seems like a fun card to play

deft belfry
#

yeah the same way it isnt worth it here, what makes thespian stage worth a slot is likely because it can copy anything by itself

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but doesnt change the fact that it is like using stage as part of a combo piece

#

that may never come

#

[[search for azcanta]]

shrewd zealotBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/xln/74/search-for-azcanta-azcanta-the-sunken-ruin

Search for Azcanta <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manau:292901508754702338>

Legendary Enchantment
At the beginning of your upkeep, surveil 1. Then if you have seven or more cards in your graveyard, you may transform Search for Azcanta. (Look at the top card of your library. You may put that card into your graveyard.)
The Sunken Ruin houses all the learning of a long-forgotten age.

Azcanta, the Sunken Ruin
Legendary Land
(Transforms from Search for Azcanta.)
manat: Add manau.
mana2manau, manat: Look at the top four cards of your library. You may reveal a noncreature, nonland card from among them and put it into your hand. Put the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.

deft belfry
#

land ramp in blue looks more like this i guess, dowsing is doable, just at a slightly more awkward point

#

[[the everflowing well]]

shrewd zealotBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/lci/56/the-everflowing-well-the-myriad-pools

The Everflowing Well <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manau:292901508754702338>

Legendary Artifact
When The Everflowing Well enters, mill two cards, then draw two cards.
Descend 8 — At the beginning of your upkeep, if there are eight or more permanent cards in your graveyard, transform The Everflowing Well.

The Myriad Pools
Legendary Artifact Land
(Transforms from The Everflowing Well.)
manat: Add manau.
Whenever you cast a permanent spell using mana produced by The Myriad Pools, up to one other target permanent you control becomes a copy of that spell until end of turn.

deft belfry
#

[[manascape refractor]]

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

[[mirran safehouse]]

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

[[sceptre of eternal glory]] this one is pricey from the 40k UB

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

so unless a non-legendary artifact that becomes a land that makes more than 1 mana is something you specifically looking for

#

i feel like there are many other options that are much easier to tap for coloured mana

sweet ember
#

I kinda want Sceptre of Eternal Glory but at the same time dont know if its worth the price when 2 drop mana rocks do just fine and I dont know what to cut from it regardless

deft belfry
#

XD

#

you can test it out, personally i cant really justify cutting a basic for dowsing

#

if i run enough basic and card draw, i would just do [[terrain generator]]

shrewd zealotBOT
sweet ember
#

The problem I have with Search for Azcanta and Everflowing Well is that they have high requirements for Graveyards. Even in the earliest estimates, Im not getting these two into Lands (That I ca already substituet their effects) before turn 5-6, while even if I count needing my commander out I can play Dagger and get it to Land by Turn four

deft belfry
#

for a slower deck i use [[thaumatic compass]]

shrewd zealotBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/xln/249/thaumatic-compass-spires-of-orazca

Thaumatic Compass <:mana2:292901509060886528>

Artifact
mana3, manat: Search your library for a basic land card, reveal it, put it into your hand, then shuffle.
At the beginning of your end step, if you control seven or more lands, transform this artifact.
"Clearly, it indicates the aetheric azimuth of . . ." —Jace Beleren

Spires of Orazca
Land
(Transforms from Thaumatic Compass.)
manat: Add manac.
manat: Untap target attacking creature an opponent controls and remove it from combat.
". . . a cryptic objective." —Jace Beleren

sweet ember
deft belfry
sweet ember
#

You know, I think I'll keep it. Sorry if this seemed like me just arguing against your points, but I guess I wanted a second perspective and as it is I think I like the card

deft belfry
#

[[treasure map]] i have ran in 2 colour decks that lacks card advantage and treasure synergy. but when i flip it, it is more often going to become draw rather than for the mana

shrewd zealotBOT
sweet ember
deft belfry
sweet ember
deft belfry
#

i am trying to find the one video from mtg goldfish that has someone talking about dowsing dagger

sweet ember
#

Actually, I have to ask, do you think my deck is Bracket 3 on its own merits, or is it another deck that only technically hits the status because it has gamechangers but realistically performs at Bracket 2 instead?

deft belfry
#

i think it was richard?

sweet ember
#

In goldfishing, I usually draw into my win conditions by Turn 7-11, depending on how early I draw into my draw engines, for reference

deft belfry
#

also [[copy land]] [[relm's sketching]] are things in the game that didnt exist 4 yrs ago

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

i think the pod cast especially the dynamic between richard and seth is just very good regardless of how good/off their takes are

#

i dont follow that channel tho so idk what happened to Richard since he seems to be gone from the channel

sweet ember
#

Yeah I agree with everything the guy said. Worst case its an ok equipment, best case I get Black Lotus butt reusable

deft belfry
#

then it is probably going to work for you

sweet ember
#

As he said if you cant hit its bad, but I can count on the number of my hands the statistical likelihood of me playing a game and having every single player with flying heavy decks

deft belfry
#

i think one time the entire cast disagree with richard's take on [[secret redevous]] while he is like winning big in games he played it

shrewd zealotBOT
#

No card found for “secret redevous”

deft belfry
#

"That s awful, 3 cards for an opponent" "No, its 6 cards for Us against the rest"

sweet ember
# shrewd zealot https://scryfall.com/card/m3c/47/copy-land

For these copies, I think Im fine with keeping Thespian's Stage. unlike Copy land it can produce mana even if I dont have a good target for effectively the same cost (2 mana to activate ability+tapping it=effectively 3 mana), and for Relm's Sketching, I'd rather run Irenicus or Quantum because everytime Ive drawn into them and copied my Commander things spiralled very quickly

deft belfry
#

[[!sparkdouble]]

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

[[$sparkdouble]]

shrewd zealotBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/62/spark-double

Prices for Spark Double
Ravnica Remastered

$16.19 • €6.60 • 0.66 TIX

Ravnica Remastered

$9.91 • €7.50 • 0.34 TIX

Ravnica Remastered

$314.53

Ravnica Remastered

$17.83 • €13.48 • 0.37 TIX

Commander Masters

$12.95 • €7.58 • 0.12 TIX

The List

$11.49

War of the Spark Promos

$9.24 • €5.89

War of the Spark Promos

$10.32 • €6.56

War of the Spark

$9.29 • €6.12 • 0.02 TIX

deft belfry
#

if this drops, i feel like you will like this card

#

in basically any decks

sweet ember
#

Yeah... I considered it but dropped it since its so expensive money wise

deft belfry
#

group hug is basically the most misrepresented, misleading, and hardest way of playing midrange i have seen

sweet ember
#

I only run 1 Planeswalker in the deck anyways, so its effectively copy target creature for 4 mana and make the copy non legendary, and for that cost Id prefer Quantum Misalignment/Irenicus for both being cheaper and making a bird

deft belfry
#

i took 2+ years to learn and perfect that group hug precon brew to a level i was satisfy with without using most of the powerful cards and keeping as many of the precon hug cards in the deck

#

yeah, lot of commanders dont care about that non creature spell

#

hermes is one of the first

sweet ember
#

I did not expect Mono-black of all colors to be able to run Group hug

deft belfry
#

[[manaflare]]

shrewd zealotBOT
sweet ember
#

But the dude was fun to play against and around in that game

deft belfry
#

i can do group hug in rakdos and i have done that

sweet ember
#

Yeah, like I said, I didnt expect it, but it was cool to see

deft belfry
#

my spells are big and i want everyone to cast big spells

sweet ember
deft belfry
#

yeah, its like telling someone to "Pick your weapon"

#

and then i will be like

#

So that i can use it on you

#

this card feels like a flavour fail for that reason [[pick your poison]] good effect tho

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

i wish its more like "escalate - pick more options. For each opponent they pick one that havent been chosen and sac that many, etc" not sure how it would be worded but more along side of "giving that choice to pick your worst"

sweet ember
#

Escalate 2 - Pay this cost for each mode beyond the first
Choose one or more:

  • Each opponent sacrifices X number of Artifacts of their choice
  • Each opponent sacrifices X number of Enchantments of their choice
  • Each opponent sacrifices X number of Creatures with Flying of their choice
    (X is equal to the number of times the Escalate cost was paid+1)
#

Does that seem about right?

deft belfry
#

😄

#

although that would just make it more good 🤔

#

i wonder if there are ways to make something similar to mode but opponent(s) choose which one, yet not super weak

#

oh well

#

not like wizard can redo another card with the same name

#

[[[retrace image]] mono blue ramp

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

😅

sweet ember
#

Damn. Seems like an ok option but tbh I'd rather run a mana rock or a different card

#

ig it helps for Landfall Simic decks?

#

Oh yeah, what are your thoughts on [[Malevolent Hermit]]?

shrewd zealotBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/mid/61/malevolent-hermit-benevolent-geist

Malevolent Hermit <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manau:292901508754702338>

Creature — Human Wizard
manau, Sacrifice this creature: Counter target noncreature spell unless its controller pays mana3.
Disturb mana2manau (You may cast this card from your graveyard transformed for its disturb cost.)
2/1

Benevolent Geist
Creature — Spirit Wizard
Flying
Noncreature spells you control can't be countered.
If Benevolent Geist would be put into a graveyard from anywhere, exile it instead.
All his old grudges suddenly seemed laughably petty. So he laughed.
2/2

sweet ember
#

Seems like an ok compromise instead of Tidal Barracuda

#

I really wish Blue had its own Voice of Victory effect without giving everyone Flash, or at least giving it Flash, but Ill take a counterspell that also stops my stuff from getting countered

#

PLus loads cheaper than Tidal Barracuda

deft belfry
#

and there are things like

#

[[lier discipline of drowned]] & [[chimil the inner sun]]

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

sometimes people go as far as [[boesiju who shelters all]]

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

no reprint so its expensive

deft belfry
#

i would just do leyline of anticipantion at that point if i think i needed ways to play my cards without someone interacting with me

#

pryamid of pantheon cost a total of mutliple turns to untap and some slight tempo lose for a mid-late game bust of mana, so its somewhat resemebles what dowsing can do. although it is still not a land

sweet ember
#

Though if I exile one of my 6+drops I'll have to shuffle my Library to get it back

sweet ember
sweet ember
deft belfry
deft belfry
#

dowsing will take at least 2 turns for the most part

#

and thats 2 turns after commander is out

#

pyramid also gives back half of that 2 mana each time so its more like 4 mana

#

its like [[terrace shire]] when i have one mana open with it untapped

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

i can turn it into a basic land

#

so as long as i have 2 mana untapped, i can slowly build up the pyramid

deft belfry
#

malevolent hermit without a way to discard it will usually end up costing 6 mana with 3 blue pips

#

but that backside is basically the ideal piece for what you want for "cant be countered" if you are up against other blue decks

#

personally i dont really play counterspells, and i havent really encountered enough blue players where i have to make sure they cannot counter myself more than the number of counter counters i have prepares

#

ofc when i have no respond to a counter after casting a 7 drop

#

i will probably lose that game due to not removing the blue player first (first i have lethal on them but i didnt want to end their life)

#

so the mistake on my part wasnt not having a removal for the counterspell but rather not using my player removal when i have the chance to completely avoid the incoming counterspell

#

spot removal, protection, counterspells are all interaction spells that goes hand in hand

sweet ember
# deft belfry dowsing will take at least 2 turns for the most part

Assuming I dont get it in my opening hand (because thats unreliable), Dowsing Dagger costs four to immediately place it down then equip it on my Main phase, with it immediately turning into a Land as I attack on that turn's Combat phase, so its either 4 mana spread out over 2 turns or 4 mana upfront to immediately make it a Land, unless I got the rules wrong?

sweet ember
deft belfry
#

ofc i have no idea how much counterspell in your game

sweet ember
# deft belfry you need a bird from a previous turn

Yeah, thats why I assume I dont have it on my opening hand. In my experience, the only times I dont have birds aside from when Im ramping for Hermes to get on field is after a board wipe, and at that point I'll be using mana on other things that turn anyways

sweet ember
deft belfry
#

i think the most counterspells i seen in a game was about 6-7 from one player so no more than 10 in the entire game

sweet ember
#

Assuming the "spells cant be countered" isnt taken effect since thats contingent on counterspell abundance

#

Do you think Discover 5 is worth 6 mana?

deft belfry
#

i mean, its more than discover 5 once

#

its discover 5 each round for the rest of the game

sweet ember
#

Its practically "Place a permanent on field or draw a card" since I have so few 6+ costs

#

True

#

Hmmm

deft belfry
#

if it gets to a 6 drop

#

it just keep going

#

for that 5- cost

sweet ember
#

Ykw I think Hermit is gonna be like a sideboard option

deft belfry
#

make sense

sweet ember
#

Your right in that its effectively 6 mana too

#

Ill swap out a card if I see Im facing up against multiple Blue players

deft belfry
#

idr its price tag tho its probably not cheap

#

it was one of the chased cards from the set

#

XD the meta game begins

sweet ember
#

But thats not debilitating of a price, and I can always use Hermit in the meantime

deft belfry
#

i know some oldschool players, and those are usually not the blue ones. the blue players i know i have played them so rarely i cant really prepare ahead of time

#

the one that is playing the most "blue" claim to be someone who hate blue so that he basically built a B4 deck in gruul and claim it to be a B3 deck

#

its doing instant speed things in green counters

#

colours*

#

[[$chimil the inner sun]]

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

thats not bad at all, ahhh the recent reprint that why

#

yeah $8 is worth it

#

if any reason its doesnt fit, i think its the initial 6 cost

#

and play style mismatch

#

as someone who dont play for value, i wouldnt want to spend $6 for a card i will only play once

sweet ember
#

Hmmm

#

Its gotten cheap lately

#

It might be worth picking up since the price isnt egregious and would 100% find a place in other decks if it ends up not being used

#

I think it hits the balance between "Effect is worth 6 mana" to make it worth running without hitting "Eliminate it NOW" the way Caged Sun did when I played it

#

So it shouldnt be a priority target against experience players, and if I face people who still target it thats one less removal to worry about coming for my Commander or engines

#

Overall I think I'll switch Hermit to the sideboard for this

deft belfry
#

i think if someone targets that one it means something

#

assume its not an impulse spite play

#

they either

#

really want to counter your spell

#

or they are doing some form of resources denial

#

so they need to slow down how much cards you will be drawing the rest of this game

#

it indirectly reveal to you what they are planning

#

and with your birds scrying, its actually hidden ways to set up your top deck

sweet ember
storm fox
#

You think a [[lilysplash mentor]] might go better in the deck?

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

that is an expensive flickingeffect

#

why

#

[[ghostly flicker]]

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

so you need to pay 7 mana so that it can be a sorcery speed repeatable single target effect?

storm fox
#

I do agree its expensive to start it

deft belfry
#

if you want semi loops, dang it i forgot the name again [[

#

[[cloudstone ]]

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

nice i guessed it

#

very expensive at some point tho [[$cloudstone curio]]

shrewd zealotBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/255/cloudstone-curio

Prices for Cloudstone Curio
Ravnica Remastered

$11.51 • €7.36 • 0.40 TIX

Ravnica Remastered

$8.88 • €7.71 • 0.23 TIX

Ravnica Remastered

$158.32

Ravnica Remastered

$10.41 • €7.56 • 0.14 TIX

Tales of Middle-earth Commander

$8.46 • €7.15 • 0.42 TIX

Tales of Middle-earth Commander

$22.01 • €17.98

Kaladesh Inventions

$85.33 • €68.54 • 0.33 TIX

Ravnica: City of Guilds

$9.15 • €5.99 • 0.02 TIX

deft belfry
#

this is probably the lowest it has been

storm fox
#

Since i had also added [[cloud of faeries]] it would also makes a great advantage loop with that

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

yeah

#

i think the initial reaction i had when i saw your deck is

#

"wheres all the faeries hiding, they all flew to Mars or something?"

#

whats the problem in game rightnow? too much mana, lot of draw but still running out of etb and missing cards from opponent's deck?

storm fox
#

Mostly lacking card draw when i have 1-2 tap mana to all elves my hand is nonexistent

deft belfry
#

ah the elf ball problem of going to fast

#

all lube but engine doesnt run

storm fox
#

Yup

#

Tho i am im blue, so i should be able to find some version of card draw

#

Oh, also flooding is a problem as well

deft belfry
#

yeah looking at the amount of mana dorks and mana production that much was expected

#

the mana and cards is disporportional

#

disproportional

#

😵‍💫

#

i cant sound out words

storm fox
#

Yeah

#

Gotta need more draw

#

What kind of draw would you recommend? Either a draw engine or more like spellslinger card draw?

cold quartz
#

hey mon, if I wanted to build a deck that its main gameplan is combo, ideally in b3, that is a visible, interact withable combo how would I go about that? are there some colors that work better than others? how would the deck be built? a lot of tutors?

bright willow
#

[[Myojin of Blooming Dawn]], early cheat to hand, proliferate, pull counters, explode (roughly turn 10)

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
deft belfry
#

your usual colours are blue, right?

#

as long as it has more pieces/ perhaps creature permanents, and you dont put out a ''dragonlord dramoka" out, i think most things can be fairly interactible. in the case of like infinite tokens, untap to attack next turn. those i find to be forcing for a boardwipe answer too much so i wouldnt aim for that

deft belfry
cold quartz
shrewd zealotBOT
cold quartz
#

the reason im interested in making a combo deck though is because i feel after playing control its a piece of the rock paper scissors of aggro, control, combo that isnt represented most of the time making certain strategies feel better than they should be because the paper to their rock isnt present

#

and i just think its an interesting archetype that requires something completely different in deck building than what ive done before

deft belfry
#

control combo lock but not unbreakable

#

midrange maybe

#

any weird fun cards you saw that interest you but have no idea how to build?

#

[[follow the body]]

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

[[dross scorpian]]

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

[[march of the machines]]

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

an [[voltaic key]] sort of engine deck?

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

[[steel overseer]]

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

[[jhoira ageless innocator]]

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

[[aetherwing golden scale flagship]] sometimes i wanted to play but no decks fit

shrewd zealotBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/mom/234/invasion-of-kaladesh-aetherwing-golden-scale-flagship

Invasion of Kaladesh <:manau:292901508754702338><:manar:292901508796645397>

Battle — Siege
(As a Siege enters, choose an opponent to protect it. You and others can attack it. When it's defeated, exile it, then cast it transformed.)
When this Siege enters, create a 1/1 colorless Thopter artifact creature token with flying.
Defense: 4

Aetherwing, Golden-Scale Flagship
Legendary Artifact — Vehicle
Flying
Aetherwing's power is equal to the number of artifacts you control.
Crew 1 (Tap any number of creatures you control with total power 1 or more: This Vehicle becomes an artifact creature until end of turn.)
Inspired by the grace of Ixalan's pterodons, Saheeli built one of her own.
*/4

deft belfry
#

i have seen [[reality chip]] combo deck

shrewd zealotBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/neo/74/the-reality-chip

The Reality Chip <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manau:292901508754702338>

Legendary Artifact Creature — Equipment Jellyfish
You may look at the top card of your library any time.
As long as The Reality Chip is attached to a creature, you may play lands and cast spells from the top of your library.
Reconfigure mana2manau (mana2manau: Attach to target creature you control; or unattach from a creature. Reconfigure only as a sorcery. While attached, this isn't a creature.)
0/4

deft belfry
#

it can be a [[llanowar loamspeaker]] with all the earthbending land creature stuff as land combos

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

[[mirror box]]

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

all basics shares the same name

#

can always do multiple tutors like [[urza's cave]] into [[urzas saga]] into that core piece oh i really like [[arumi dead tide]]

shrewd zealotBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/259/urzas-saga

Urza's Saga

Enchantment Land — Urza's Saga
(As this Saga enters and after your draw step, add a lore counter. Sacrifice after III.)
I — This Saga gains "manat: Add manac."
II — This Saga gains "mana2, manat: Create a 0/0 colorless Construct artifact creature token with 'This token gets +1/+1 for each artifact you control.'"
III — Search your library for an artifact card with mana cost mana0 or mana1, put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle.

#

No card found for “arumi dead tide”

deft belfry
#

[[araumi, dead tide]]

shrewd zealotBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/267/araumi-of-the-dead-tide

Araumi of the Dead Tide <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manau:292901508754702338><:manab:292901508872273920>

Legendary Creature — Merfolk Wizard
manat, Exile cards from your graveyard equal to the number of opponents you have: Target creature card in your graveyard gains encore until end of turn. The encore cost is equal to its mana cost. (Exile the creature card and pay its mana cost: For each opponent, create a token copy that attacks that opponent this turn if able. They gain haste. Sacrifice them at the beginning of the next end step. Activate only as a sorcery.)
1/4

deft belfry
#

self mill is like half the tutors into/from grave then triple the value

cold quartz
#

wow ok interesting choices, yeah so it seems like i should start with an interesting combo piece i like and work backwards from there..let me have a think on it overnight

frank bolt
#

Hey @deft belfry thanks a lot for guidance. Ive been busy so i just read your replies. I'll ditch brainstorm. I feel like diplomatic immunity is very good way to protect Jon, is it not? Torment of Hellfire is there to close out games. The deck can really struggle when it gets to 1v1.

Satoru seems interesting. It would allow me to get big hit in before donating a creature. I only have 3 creatures that cost over 4 mana theres often no discount however.

I cut Repulse earlier. Also Keep Safe is no longer in the deck.

Living Dead might not be a good fit for this deck because of how hard it is for opponents to get rid of creatures Ive donated so I suppose my graveyard would be pretty empty often.

Mark of Oni and Come Back Wrong seem super fun. Get rid of their threat and donate it back to someone goaded. No card draw from those creatures however.

I actually like that Locust God a lot. It generates a ton of evasive tokens which can be donated as 3/3s and further increase the card draw and token generation. Or just use the tokens as blockers.

It works in the same role as [[bitterbloom bearer]] and [[ophiomancer]]. I wonder if I should have even more cards that generate evasive tokens easily.

shrewd zealotBOT
tight wolf
#

@deft belfry hey, i am looking for ways to survive the turn cycle after I pop off with my ureni deck

bright willow
storm fox
shrewd zealotBOT
storm fox
#

Also i was rethinking some cards in ao to replace [[sword of forge and frontier]] for [[sword of heart and home]] maybe? Retrigger etbs of a bunch of the smaller creatures of any kind while having a guaranteed basic instead of just a land drop i can possibly miss

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

[[diplomatic immunity ]]

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

i think its meh its way worse than the generic [[!swiftfoot boots]]

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

torment is usually most effective with multiple player at the end of their resources
follow up after board wipe/ lot of spellslinging turn

deft belfry
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

[[!locust god]]

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

which?

frank bolt
#

that one. is there another?

deft belfry
#

that was just an example for the draw trigger

#

its not something you can fit in dimir

#

the reason i mentioned living dead was more an example of

#

"boardwipe" that doesnt negate your game plan

#

because i was comparing how cannot sac is similar to [[assault suit]]

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

but with this package i think going ninja is pretty safe too

#

if you want an aura that sort of protect something, i think i would go with [[vampiric link]]

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

put on own creature, gain the life, give away, every hit gain more life

#

if you shroud your creature, you cant give it away. if you give it away, i dont think they care about killing it that much or that player may just have to use removal on it if it is bad enough

#

bad gifts such as

#

[[phyrexian soulgorger]] isnt really that bad

shrewd zealotBOT
storm fox
deft belfry
#

its just an 8/8 for mana3 and ignores that sac clause [[dress down]] style

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
deft belfry
# bright willow As commander

unfortunately, as a commander , there are limited things in the game to get it to your hand, i think scryfall should be able to give all the cards that resemble [[command beacon]] and even still it is an 8 drop. will have to dedicate most of the deck to ramp that gives more than one mana in return like better versions of [[worn power stone]]

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

flicker is easy to use

tight wolf
deft belfry
storm fox
#

Also i noticed i didnt run graves in Ao, you think its maybe worth it putting it in?

deft belfry
#

it may mess with a few targetting effect such as the flicker

#

but usually you have other creatures to move it around to

storm fox
deft belfry
#

as long as you are not going single creature voltron

#

greaves is usually the upgrade to boots

#

if you find room, its rarely bad

storm fox
#

It was t running boots either, yet

deft belfry
#

and haste in non-red colours

#

doesnt hurt at all

deft belfry
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

the problem isnt exactly "not having fog" in the deck tho

#

i think there are just lot of redundancy to get to the high curve

#

so later on when you no longer need that ramp, you are still drawing ramp

tight wolf
#

What would you change?

deft belfry
#

slightly balanced out card ratio

#

is it B3

tight wolf
#

Yes

deft belfry
#

dang i never noticed summon bahamut is a dragon til now XD

tight wolf
#

Yeah, pretty insane from time to time lol

#

In which category do I need more?

deft belfry
#

i was actually thinking if something need less XD

#

goldfishing rn

tight wolf
#

Usually I dont do that much until I drop Ureni, get like 2-3 triggers and then I am instantly the archenemy

deft belfry
#

yeah it builds fast

tight wolf
#

And slotting low cost dragons lowers the value of trigger imo

deft belfry
#

[[!ureni of the unwritten]] 8 cards deep hmmm

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

yeah i had a [[velomachus lorehold]] B2 deck at one point

shrewd zealotBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/tdc/309/velomachus-lorehold

Velomachus Lorehold <:mana5:292901508796645386><:manar:292901508796645397><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Legendary Creature — Elder Dragon
Flying, vigilance, haste
Whenever Velomachus Lorehold attacks, look at the top seven cards of your library. You may cast an instant or sorcery spell with mana value less than or equal to Velomachus Lorehold's power from among them without paying its mana cost. Put the rest on the bottom of your library in a random order.
5/5

deft belfry
#

it usually find 2 cards to choose from and i think i only whiffed like once out of 25 times

tight wolf
#

What about steely resolve

storm fox
deft belfry
#

pretty strong protection piece

#

[[$steely resolve]]

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

rip

tight wolf
#

I am thinking about cutting ancient silver dragon

#

Its pretty slow

deft belfry
#

i favour [[glaring spotlight]][[veilstone amulet]] more for extra synergy/utility but overall they are doing the same

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

[[ancient silver dragon]]

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

somewhat makes sense, although the card draw is basically a win con

#

like 75% of those rolls you will have overwhelming card advantage

tight wolf
#

Yeah, the value generation is nuts

deft belfry
#

yeah, i would count that card as a win con, and depends on how many win cons you already have, it can be cut

#

[[dense foliage]] i think this you can consider

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

[[$dense foliage]]

shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
#

even if you dont care about the price

#

the fact that it messes with certain decks so hard

tight wolf
#

Is there a card that you would definetely cut?

deft belfry
#

is like lowkey a stax piece

#

purely for power/mechanically reason?

tight wolf
#

Yeah, I want the deck to be a powerhouse

deft belfry
#

this i have yet to seen in a game i played [[devestating onslaught]] how well did it played

shrewd zealotBOT
tight wolf
#

I added it like 3 days ago and didnt have a chance to play it

#

Imo it can work quite well but thats just an assumption

deft belfry
#

X spells are always tricky, since idk how much mana it will be

tight wolf
#

Yeah, have to playtest that one for sure

#

Any other suggestions?

deft belfry
#

[[hellkite tyrant]]

shrewd zealotBOT
tight wolf
#

Btw, Dragonhawk is completely nuts

deft belfry
#

oh yeah i remember that card, i got it when it was still relatively cheap

#

as much as i like tyrant as a card

tight wolf
#

I didnt had the chance to playtest hellkite tyrant

deft belfry
#

i think that alternative win con is like a meme

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6 drop is okay but its not that best value, without haste it sucks, and no one is going to give you 20 aritfact token (sac all their treasures) to steal

tight wolf
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I didnt mainly pick it for the wincon but the artifact stealing feels to niche I think