#Bracket help?

107 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

tawny widget
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https://moxfield.com/decks/rof_NEGYFU-iBb6zvPlBdQ

I built this for bracket 3. I got feedback that it was stronger than that though.

I had a high roll that effectively ended the game turn 6 when the one person that tried to interact with me in my upkeep couldn't stop a [[heroic intervention]], and the other person that had interaction didn't realize it gave permanents hexproof until end of turn, which gave me time to equip [[conqueror's flail]].

I'm pretty sure it was variance with everything lining up perfectly for me, in first seat, while two players were struggling on mana (one screwed, the other flooded). That said, I wanted to check if that level of variance was unacceptable. Really I was just looking for an excuse to run a bunch of Swords with Cloud, and not have it be a clunky mess. That said, I pretty much only played cEDH for commander before FF came out, so I haven't worked with power levels much in the past.

Turn by turn:

  1. Wooded Foothills, Savannah, Delighted Halfling
  2. Forest, Reyav, Master Smith
  3. Bloom Tender
  4. City of Industry, Puresteel Paladin, Conformer Shuriken
    4.5 Archivist of Oghma in response to a fetch land
  5. Land, Sword of Light and Shadow, Cloud, equipped and attacked for 12 (double strike)

Upkeep: Heroic Intervention in response to Hylda player activating Opposition targeting Cloud. He scooped in response, but table agreed to say it was correct to have me attack his ghost to kill him off (he couldn't block due to protection from white).
Main: Land, Conqueror's Flail, 3rd artifact so equips are free, moved flail, shuriken and sword to cloud, paladin, and reyav respectively
Combat: attacked with the three for the cloud trigger value.
Passed turn.
6.5 Played a Dispatch on a Braids, opponent scooped in response.
7. Last remaining opponent had passed through his turn and then realized he couldn't cast spells during my turn, he scooped in response.

Moxfield
Limit Break Bracket 3 - Commander (Cloud, Ex-SOLDIER)

A deck created using Moxfield.

cloud lionBOT
slow acorn
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but table agreed to say it was correct to have me attack his ghost to kill him off lol

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consider how others misplayed against interactions its kinda hard to say thats a b4 because they lost to their own misplay

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some cards/mana are on the stronger side

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while you can consider jankier cards and taking out staples for more thematic cards

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FF is just a very high power set with new powercreep so its not surprising if the game ends quick

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people may get the impression that high budget top tier mana base makes a deck more powerful than it seems

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i have a 5 colour deck (with self imposed restriction) that used mostly tapped lands. but it explode past the point of having 6-7 mana untapped so the early tap lands doesnt affect its power level for the most part and it probably close to the top of 3s

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i can use fetch shocks triomes i own but it doesnt really help the deck play better; breaks the overall low budget; and draws more attention from the table from my powerful interaction spells.
edit, the deck also dont have early game mana1 drop so the untapped lands dont do anything beyond bluffing

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in short, mana based doesnt always directly reflect the power or brackets but i think it is nice to consider when putting a deck together. I dont think the OG duals are necessary for bracket 3

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or off colour fetched

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fetches

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is a card there because it is part of the theme, the mechanic, the game plan, or just because it is good and highest power counterpart you could find

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where do the upgrades ends and the desireable game play/ play pattern you are looking for

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THIS maybe the indication that the deck is "too efficient"

image.png
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^

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personally, I am not the biggest fan of how protection swords plays out. and based on my principle, i dont own nor want to play most of them in my bracket 2-3 decks, but I think they are fine as is

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for reference, how I view the swords of X & Y outside of a few
||attacking the same player over and over for value; unblockable and no possible interaction from those colours; its a whiff if the table dont play those colours at all; too much value and force an answer to the problem before it is too late; generic rather than unique effects to make the game more memorable for the table; high budget cards that are not accessible by the majority of casual players ( i like janks) ; comfortable power level||

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@tawny widgetmy 3 cents

slow acorn
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huh

tawny widget
# slow acorn huh

Sorry, misclicked and forgot to get back to it.

Was going to say that it was surprising to me that the mana curve was considered too efficient. I’m not used to 4-5 drops being exceptionally playable cards outside of heavy control focused decks. My experience is with mostly 60 card eternal formats or cEDH though.

It honestly seems like B3 is a bad fit for me. Opponents expecting their cards to not be interacted with, while they can still play stax/control cards seems pretty boring tbh.

Also, the whole use of swords was the thematic part of the deck I was going for… Cloud likes his swords. They’re 10-ish swords, plus a few tutors to go grab the best one for the situation. Regarding your concern about attacking the same player for value… I’d generally do that anyways for any boggles like deck. Player elimination >> other forms of removal. Is this not a common play pattern for B3?

slow acorn
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i think commander is jsut that slow casual format for quite a while but in the last 3-5 years

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the game has accelerated so much so that (arcane signet was a mistake) there are enough staples that powercreep/ cost efficient things to win sort of out of nowhere

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before anyone can stop the player

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almost every bracket 2 deck still runs and can potentially pull off the sol ring arcane signet start

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so ęeven a mono color deck can be 3-4 turns ahead of other players

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maybe there are some bracket 1 deck that specific dont run sol ring who knows. or rule zero pods that still do mana crypt. very much up to the group

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yeah, i dont really like B3its an awkward spot

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its trying to win but not triharding but also somewhat efficient with a not so optimized strategy

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i like self imposed restrictions

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to make my own deck interesting

tawny widget
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It’s a singleton format… I guess I’d assume anyone shooting for the “upgraded” tier would be focused on mana and card advantage. Seems like from my very limited experience of a few games, it’s just people wanting to play with threatening cards but not have people interfere with their game plan.

slow acorn
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how the player acts and talks within the context of the game also changes how the game is preceived sometimes

tawny widget
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True enough

slow acorn
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if Cedh is tutor for fast combo win

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b4 is like less of that interaction but still do lot of efficient stuff and staples

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different meta

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b3 is ... social governed "what is allowed so people can somewhat have fun"

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i see lot of expensive cards in b3

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not because the card is always good across format but because those cards are hard to get

tawny widget
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Gotcha. My understanding of B4 was that it’s supposed to be on par with cEDH power level, but lacks the existence or at least the consistency of A+B combos that would make it competitive in a cEDH table.

slow acorn
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yeah

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i dont think stax happens often in Cedh right?

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stax isnt very common in general far as i know

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b4 is probably where most stax decks lies in, imo

tawny widget
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Urza is definitely a stax deck, and Winota used to be one, but yeah, they fell out of favor for the most part.

slow acorn
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as a non high power, non cedh player

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b4 has lot of unfun, unfair cards

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but some people enjoy that high power game play, interactions, small amount of politics

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mass card advantage to play their crazy cards

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drawing 75 cards isnt much different from tutoring in the 99

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😅

tawny widget
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cEDH has a nice balancing mechanic that basically makes 1 for 1 removal worthwhile, as interrupting a single point, at the right time, for someone can be the difference between a win or a loss.

slow acorn
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It honestly seems like B3 is a bad fit for me. Opponents expecting their cards to not be interacted with, while they can still play stax/control cards seems pretty boring tbh. i think this just depends on who you play with. sweaty players is a no go for me, the chill ones those are the best

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right, because anything risk of getting countered

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so playing a 1 drop vs playing a 5 drop run a very different level of risk

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[[jodah, the unifier]] i call this commander the fake-b2 deck

cloud lionBOT
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https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/203/jodah-the-unifier

Jodah, the Unifier <:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manau:292901508754702338><:manab:292901508872273920><:manar:292901508796645397><:manag:292901508654301185>

Legendary Creature — Human Wizard
Legendary creatures you control get +X/+X, where X is the number of legendary creatures you control.
Whenever you cast a legendary spell from your hand, exile cards from the top of your library until you exile a legendary nonland card with lesser mana value. You may cast that card without paying its mana cost. Put the rest on the bottom of your library in a random order.
5/5

slow acorn
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as long as the build around (obviously) is legend tribal, it is automatically a b3 deck without using game changer

tawny widget
slow acorn
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yeah, its hard to match power level when you dont know the people

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personally i have never started with my highest power deck the first game. since i learnt to not do that the hard way

tawny widget
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Tbh, Jodah isn’t that great of a card. Just run removal for Jodah, and the rest falls apart quickly. [[Sisay, Weatherlight Captain]] does the legend thing much better imo

cloud lionBOT
slow acorn
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play style wise, eliminating one player first has a weird effect in the game

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sisay is Cedh viable

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Jodah is fake B2 imo

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oh wow i didnt find that yt video on this topic but AI has most of the point i was looking for

tawny widget
slow acorn
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i think a big part of that different is definitely the mentality

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how to be efficient/ best play in each situation

tawny widget
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Yeah, I’m fully aware of what it means to remove a player from the game. If I’m doing it, it’s because I expect to handle the aftermath. At the end of the day, just trying to make sure the deck can win on its own. I try to avoid the politicking that a lot of people seem to love.

slow acorn
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make sense

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swords forced the decks into that direction

tawny widget
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Yeah. Especially in the sample game that annoyed people there was one mono black deck, one azorious, and another naya. Pro black/white was particularly potent.

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And then having metalcraft on puresteel paladin, I always had a blocker up.

slow acorn
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i own the war and peace + hearth and home
love the ramp for non green decks

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one game where i got pro red white, the entire table was blue green XD

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but i love pro white because i hate path and swords

tawny widget
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Yeah, ain’t no removal quite like white removal. I have a binder with all the swords (not just sword of x and y)… just all of the swords in mtg. Finally have an excuse to play with them, so trying to find where they fit.

slow acorn
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i think they are nice to in b3 with or w/o tutors

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feeast and femaine is just in everything already so it doesnt seems special

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the pro dimir i have seen no play, same for the pro speed one since it doesnt actually give the evasion and the value seems small in comparison

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i think all the ones with pro white or pro green are just so good , some people really like [[sword of fire and ice]] i find that one kinda meh since there arent that many blue creatures for the blue side to matter, red already have crappy removal or it can also kill the sword, shock and lightning bolt isnt really good in the 99, so the payoff is just +2/+2 and the card draw each turn

cloud lionBOT
slow acorn
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not that i want to buy [[$sword of fire and ice]] or play it either

cloud lionBOT
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https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/297/sword-of-fire-and-ice

Prices for Sword of Fire and Ice
Special Guests

$33.33 • €23.38

Magic Online Promos

2.79 TIX

Double Masters

$37.57 • €25.73 • 0.39 TIX

Double Masters

$46.06 • €37.65

Kaladesh Inventions

$127.74 • €77.12 • 1.47 TIX

Modern Masters

$39.00 • €23.88 • 0.13 TIX

Magic Online Promos

0.14 TIX

Judge Gift Cards 2011

$76.41 • €41.88

Darksteel

$32.19 • €16.10 • 0.02 TIX

slow acorn
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wow kaladesh copy so special pricey

tawny widget
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Yeah, some of those swords are pricey, but all of the kaladesh inventions fetch a premium. Even generic precon cards like [[$champion's helm]]

cloud lionBOT
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https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/375/champions-helm

Prices for Champion's Helm
Final Fantasy Commander

$1.63 • €1.45

Fallout

$1.40 • €1.23 • 0.08 TIX

Fallout

$2.02 • 0.08 TIX

Fallout

$2.24

Fallout

$2.38

Commander Masters

$1.74 • €1.96 • 0.39 TIX

Commander Masters

$3.46 • 0.15 TIX

Commander Masters

$3.86 • €2.88 • 0.45 TIX

Kaladesh Inventions

$50.49 • €26.82 • 0.31 TIX

Commander 2011

$2.81 • €2.21 • 0.03 TIX

slow acorn
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i think i will have to wait 3 more months before i get myself that FF precon 😢

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dont own [[champions helm]] myself

cloud lionBOT
slow acorn
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kinda want it for the video game style art

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😩

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^dont like this face on the original mask

tawny widget
slow acorn
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lol

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tbh, even at msrp, everything is over priced

tawny widget
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You're not wrong, but at the same time, market seems to think wotc undercharged 🤷‍♂️

slow acorn
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i will see if i get my hands on one when it get the second print run later in the year

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it would also cost more for the card to be send over here to Canada than to buy one