#Tifa Multi Combat/Myriad Help

428 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

spiral marten
#

Planning to upgrade my Boros Karlach Multi Combat/Myriad deck to Naya with Tifa as the commander, after advice for any cheap cards to improve it. (or new FF cards). Currently I have everything the below deck already except the pictured list https://archidekt.com/decks/13035832/tifa_multi_myriad

Archidekt

Tifa, Martial Artist - Commander deck

(1) Commander • (2) Burn • (7) Draw • (8) Finisher • (33) Land • (9) Protection • (6) Pump • (11) Ramp • (2) Recursion • (7) Removal • (2) Stax • (11) Tokens • (1) Untap

zinc rune
#

I may be mistaken in this, and someone can correct me if I’m wrong, but myriad doesnt work well with your commander

#

as myriad creates “tapped and attacking” copies, however, your Tifa’s melee ability relies on “attacked” which is different

spiral marten
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Thats why [[Mirror Box]] and [[Cadric, Soul Kindler]] are in the deck, but it works mostly because Myriad goes off for each combat phase

junior streamBOT
spiral marten
#

its not there to trigger the extra combat phase if thats what you mean

sterile elbow
#

I'm missing a [[Wulfgar of Icewind Dale]]

junior streamBOT
zinc rune
#

okay I thought the goal was to give her the 3 +1/+1s from her Melee ability

spiral marten
#

Ah, I am mostly looking for stuff under $5

zinc rune
#

which wouldnt happen because of the difference between declaring attackers and attacking

sterile elbow
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[[$Wulfgar of Icewind Dale]]

junior streamBOT
spiral marten
#

He is on my list if I decide to spend more though, hes excellent

sterile elbow
#

I think he is just one Reprint away of going under 5 and staying there. BUT its a DnD card so that makes it more weird to reprint

spiral marten
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I do think I need some more card draw and evasion

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I have some cards like [[Leyline Axe]] already for evasion but not sure what to drop

junior streamBOT
spiral marten
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and so many of the good draw spells in Naya are quite expensive

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Is [[Lightning, Security Sergeant]] a good choice? or is the combat damage requirement too much of an issue?

junior streamBOT
spiral marten
#

Maybe [[White Auracit]] to replace one of the ramp cards and give me some more removal?

junior streamBOT
spiral marten
zinc rune
#

yeah thats my apologies for misinterpretation the intent behind the myriad

spiral marten
#

nothing to apologise for, was just trying to explain what I am trying to do

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I know this won't be a super powerful deck, but I have a lot of fun with the Boros Karlach version I am upgrading it from so am hoping to keep that feeling

spiral marten
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Still looking for any further ideas on this

ornate urchin
#

i will take a quick look

spiral marten
#

thanks!

ornate urchin
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I think this is the ideal decks to run [[annie joins up]]

junior streamBOT
ornate urchin
#

type of*

spiral marten
#

yeah, that looks great

ornate urchin
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the untap is a bit awkward tho

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since it untap on damage rather than in that combat

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but its good that it untaps ALL creatures, regardless of what landed the attack

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or isnt attacking

spiral marten
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yeah, I need to squeeze in some trample/evasion options

ornate urchin
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idk if you need myriad for those trigger

spiral marten
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I'm using Myriad because I like it more than it being super efficient

ornate urchin
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i would have done [[Delina, wild mage]]

junior streamBOT
ornate urchin
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or [[stonic resonator]]

junior streamBOT
ornate urchin
#

more generic and easy to do without all the extra draw / search to get mirror box

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in other words, in other to keep myriad, you may have to cut out some thing else

spiral marten
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I skipped Delina because I am trying to reduce my additional costs

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Theres some expensive cards in there but they came from precons and drafts

ornate urchin
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not too big on golbin bombardment if you cant make tons of tokens or need a sac outlet

spiral marten
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I have considered removing it, i've been using it to get some additional use out of the myriad tokens before they go away

ornate urchin
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lot of creatures on the higher curve makes it hard to find things to sac sometimes

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i would aim for the big damage like [[war storm surge]]

junior streamBOT
ornate urchin
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so even without the ignore legendary rule ability, you can guarantee payoff

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rather than keeping something only to lose them to sac

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basically i am just picking things without having mirror box at my disposal, if it is in play, perfect. if not, the deck isnt dead

spiral marten
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Yeah, Mirror Box is mostly there as a cool card to have, the deck is based on a Boros deck and mostly wins via combat damage

ornate urchin
spiral marten
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Thats why I have so much wipe protection

ornate urchin
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city on fire and legion loyalty such fun cards

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i wish they are more playable at higher brackets

spiral marten
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Yes, a lot of the cards are in there because they are fun, I built the deck to be enjoyable to play (the way I like to play anyway) rather than super strong

ornate urchin
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[[stranglehold]] 👀 whats this doing in the deck

junior streamBOT
ornate urchin
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meta game choice?

spiral marten
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I have the entire Karlach SLD in there

ornate urchin
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I see, i dont know about that SLD

spiral marten
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Its the only Secret Lair I ever bought

ornate urchin
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nice, i wanted some miku ones but couldnt even get close

spiral marten
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So I basically haven't cut Stranglehold out of Nostalgia

ornate urchin
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instant sells out

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fair nuf

spiral marten
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The main Karlach card is worth more than I paid for the drop, its wild

ornate urchin
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so deck is semi budget, more about the cards you are trying to play and make something work

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[[karlach]]

junior streamBOT
ornate urchin
#

[[$karlach]]

junior streamBOT
ornate urchin
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not a card i can see myself owning E3

spiral marten
ornate urchin
#

going off on just what you have tagged

spiral marten
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Basically I tried to build something fun around those cards using mechanics I like (Multiple combats, Myriad, Initiative)

ornate urchin
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i think the ramp is a bit low but i havent tested anything

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additional combat aurelia making new copies can go infinite

spiral marten
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Neither have I, this is a change to an existing boros deck, so there are a number of catch up ramp cards I switched out for green

ornate urchin
#

[[$gisela, blade of goldnight]]

junior streamBOT
#
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ornate urchin
#

this one really dropped with all the reprint, 7 mana seems so much to hard cast

spiral marten
ornate urchin
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i remeber doing just instant no delay flicker on aurelia

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triple combat is broken enough to end most games if the commander has envasion

spiral marten
ornate urchin
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i think winning with Tifa is going to be the most satisfying combat dmg dealer in this deck

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do you have sword of animist

spiral marten
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No, I don't own any of the swords unfortunately

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except the one arriving in the FF7 Precon

ornate urchin
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expensive but its the non green ramp that works all too well with combat

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which one is that

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are you using the FF7 farewell>?

spiral marten
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Oh it is Animist

ornate urchin
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its just more of a salty card

spiral marten
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from Party Time I think

ornate urchin
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k

spiral marten
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Currently I am only taking Tifa from the precon for this

ornate urchin
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because farewell isnt the most fun to play with or play against

spiral marten
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I never use it in all modes

ornate urchin
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perhaps too powerful as a card

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and reset the game unless its land ramp

spiral marten
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I basically just use it to deal with enchantment/graveyard/artifact players

ornate urchin
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yeah, if its used as one sided wipe and not affecting yourself

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it would be a lot better

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i think there is another one/two that can basically wipe artifact enchantment or mana value etc

spiral marten
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the only time I have used it with the creature mode is when I phased out my own creatures

ornate urchin
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just generic white wipes at the highest cost

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like with teferi pro?

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or cleaver concealment

spiral marten
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Clever Concealment is in the deck

ornate urchin
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i liek the protection package, perhaps overkill but it is boros

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i think you can have more green to balance some pips out

spiral marten
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I found I got blown out way too much

spiral marten
ornate urchin
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if you only need one creature to rebuild [[tamiyo's safekeeping]] is one at low cost

junior streamBOT
ornate urchin
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or whatever target creature hexproof/ some green ones need +1 counters to work

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[[rancor]]

junior streamBOT
spiral marten
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definitely worth considering Tamiyo

ornate urchin
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gets tifa to 7 trample power, decentive to block a trampler

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and recurs itself if creature dies or destroyed

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i guess green has the card advantage option open that budget white lacks

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if guardian project tribute to the world tree is very green creature focus, non budget and high on the curve

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the combat ones are cheap, one time, but draw tons of cards

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as long as the damage connects

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and since those effects are until end of turn, the combat doubling is like double strike here

spiral marten
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Most of those are quite expensive money wise aren't they?

ornate urchin
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boros need the double strike buffs, usually only cost one spell, may even be a cantrip spell

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whats that 3 mana instant, creature deal combat damage, draw that mana

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[[rishkar's expertise]] [[return of wildspeaker]] [[hunter's insight]]

add in a [[kari zev's expertise]] here

junior streamBOT
spiral marten
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[[Hunter's Insight]] ?

junior streamBOT
ornate urchin
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kari exp can potentially remove a blocker and attack twice with the stolen creature

spiral marten
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ooh, [[Hunter's Prowess]] is actually really good

junior streamBOT
ornate urchin
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but yeah just do hunter insight after block before damage

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yeah prowess is the "buff" version with trample

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BUT sorcery so its obvious, and they dont want to give someone mass draw so now the whole table may see it as a bigger threat

spiral marten
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It also makes a lot of the creatures 7/7's for Tifa

ornate urchin
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especially with multiple combat

spiral marten
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true

ornate urchin
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so i think prowess you HAVE to hold it back til you know you get it

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5 mana is a lot at sorcery

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which is why i can say return of the wildspeaker most of the time, instant out of nowhere draw

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but like 1/5 green decks can actually make use of prowess

spiral marten
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thats good advice

ornate urchin
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thx

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i think all of those are the cheap ones i can think of atm there may be few others

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the less dependent on getting damage through, the more $pricey they are

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like [[$life's legacy]]

junior streamBOT
ornate urchin
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[[$momentous fall]]

junior streamBOT
ornate urchin
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because self sac, unless the spell is countered; which is more rare, the draw is almost guarantee

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damage run the risk of removal, fog, control, pillow fort, blocks etc

spiral marten
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I have Toski, who would be great but hes in my Squirreled Away precon which I am not sure I want to modify

ornate urchin
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at the cheapest $ wise, you have "repeatable" [[colssal majesty]]

junior streamBOT
ornate urchin
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i cant play this in my local meta, too slow, need a board which doesnt stay around for long, hard to fit into my style of decks. its more thematic imo

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makes that one creature feels extra special

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the green phyrexian arena

spiral marten
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This deck will mostly play in high 2/ low 3 games so it being slow isn't a huge deal

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if people want to play fast commander I just grab my budget Winota deck\

ornate urchin
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also lot of powercreep so we have [[gurruk's uprising]]

junior streamBOT
ornate urchin
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otherwise, most of them are 3 drop "Your upkeep, check condition (like really bad conditions), draw 1"

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i should have remembered uprising much eariler

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when i mentioned war storm surge

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myriad works perfect here

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the other thing lacks reprint so its a bit more pricey, called [[elemental bond]]?

junior streamBOT
ornate urchin
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the tribute to world tree before it was cool

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[[benfactor's draught]] precon no reprint so this one is bad

junior streamBOT
ornate urchin
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price wise

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it draws on EVERY blocking creature

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so yeah i dont think you need a toski at all but it doesnt hurt to make myriad toski if you decide to

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[[greater good]] one of the best sac outlet in the game, ofc its green

junior streamBOT
ornate urchin
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why [[overcome]]

junior streamBOT
ornate urchin
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flavour?

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[[$bedlam]]

junior streamBOT
ornate urchin
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pricey one but this one is super fun

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other than [[gisela, godnight]] idrk what is a good cut in this current theme

junior streamBOT
#

No card found for “gisela, godnight”

ornate urchin
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[[gisela, goldnight]]

junior streamBOT
#

Legendary Creature — Angel
Flying, first strike
If a source would deal damage to an opponent or a permanent an opponent controls, that source deals double that damage to that player or permanent instead.
If a source would deal damage to you or a permanent you control, prevent half that damage, rounded up.
5/5

ornate urchin
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i just find it unecesary and high costed

spiral marten
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yeah, I just like that card

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I know its not ideal

ornate urchin
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and meanwhile i find the card i was looking for all this time

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[[ghired, conclave exile]]

junior streamBOT
ornate urchin
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wait wrong one

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[[ghired, mirror of the wilds]]

junior streamBOT
spiral marten
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Oh nice

ornate urchin
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keep whatever tokens you make AND Tifa can now untap and tap for this

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and since she untaps ALL creatures

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you just ctrl V your whole board

spiral marten
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Works with Cadric and and Jolly Balloon man too

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thats definitely an awesome option

ornate urchin
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maybe an even better commander jk

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i think you can focus more on this Tifa, combat untap and token side

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more than hoping to get mirror box side

spiral marten
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[[Cadric, Soul Kindler]] doubles up on that effect from Mirror Box for what its worth

junior streamBOT
ornate urchin
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like i can understand skipping elemental bond for budget reasons, but the combat into garruk uprisking and war storm surge is hard to miss out on

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oh that one new enchanement [[windcrag siege]]

junior streamBOT
spiral marten
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yeah, im actually checking if I already have a copy of Garruk's Uprising right now

ornate urchin
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i dont think attack triggle is that great here

spiral marten
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Windcrag is already in the list

ornate urchin
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since it is not always getting the myriad

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it works for melee but thats about it

spiral marten
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doesn't it double all my combat and myriad triggers?

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why wouldn't it get Myriad?

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thats an attack trigger, so wouldn't it become myriad, myriad in effect

ornate urchin
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its not bad, but i dont think its worth if most of the deck

spiral marten
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fair enough, I haven't bought that one yet, so I'll think about it

ornate urchin
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is trigger else where

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part of the reason why i said annie joins up

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if you decide to go big

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i think impact tremors value ping can be replaced

spiral marten
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annie is probably a better card

ornate urchin
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it is, annie is just busted

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remove on sight busted

spiral marten
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Impact/bombardment might get cut and I'd drop entry pings entirely

ornate urchin
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aww

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i did take war storm out of some of my deck because it feels too repeatitive as a win con and 5 drop is awkward

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myriad is the only place i want to keep it in

spiral marten
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the deck is mostly supposed to kill people by punching them

ornate urchin
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yeah make sense

spiral marten
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I have an Evereth Rakdos deck for burning people

ornate urchin
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if your creatures are big enough, i am not sure if you actually need dolmen gate to protect anything

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do you now the interaction with annie + myriad + mirrorbox + tifa triggers?

spiral marten
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thats another of the secret lair cards

ornate urchin
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myriad trigger twice on attack same as crag, by ignoring legend rule so you can keep the tokens which is good. so with 4 tokens that are 4/4, original is a 10/10

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if power 7 hits here

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all 5 will trigger untapping

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10 times

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and on first combat, get 10 more combats

spiral marten
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wait why is she a 10/10? the myriad tokens don't trigger melee

ornate urchin
#

melee is an attack trigger

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so for that crag isnt bad

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well i figured you can do the +3 on melee as you attack

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so +3 twice = +6

spiral marten
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ah right, as long as you add other attackers

ornate urchin
#

but you do need more attacking creatures

spiral marten
#

cool, just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something

ornate urchin
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the point is really just letting one power 7 get through and crag cannot double the combat trigger

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annie joins up can

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if you untap your board 2-3 times each combat (which is why i think stonic resonator is amazing)

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then whatever good tap ability becomes broken

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even if it is just making a few mana

#

the [[$bloom tender]] [[$faeburrow elder]]

junior streamBOT
#
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#
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ornate urchin
#

same effect but has white at 3 mana value basically 20% the price

#

good luck with 30 mana in combat

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most of the time, with commander its probably 5-10 mana

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circle back to mirror of the wilds, whatever tokens you make, stays around, as you make more

spiral marten
#

tap wise, I think it mostly leverages Cadric/Jolly Bal'oon Man and the deck primarily relies on ETB effects from those + Myriad rather than tapping for mana etc

ornate urchin
#

i just dont have enough things that can replace what you already have in the deck and can make cuts for

#

[[jolly baloon man]] needs mana right

junior streamBOT
#

No card found for “jolly baloon man”

spiral marten
#

its all good, I appreciate the advice, I won't take all of it but you have given me some great ideas

#

he does

ornate urchin
#

let me know what you switch out 😅

spiral marten
#

but only 1 colorless and there are a couple mana dorks in there already

ornate urchin
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ijust give a bunch because i never got the chance to use mirror to populate tokens and the untapping insanity is perfect here

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i know the mercenary has tap ability but its sorcery speed

spiral marten
ornate urchin
#

oh yeah the set isnt out yet lol

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still need room for all the new cards

spiral marten
#

Thats why I have mostly pre-planned with the cards I already own

ornate urchin
#

ping me in a few weeks in this threat and i will get right back to it

spiral marten
#

haha, I got you invested in the result

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will do

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I'll definitely order annie though

ornate urchin
#

if you dont go infinite, helm of the host is always a nice fun one

spiral marten
#

yeah, but quite expensive

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otherwise It would be in there already

ornate urchin
#

and whatever flicking to trgger etbs again including Cadric etb

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yeah 5 and 4 for 9 mana is pretty bad if you dont ramp hard

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if you go crazy with untap, the one myr can attack equipment by tapping, or an expensive old card let you equip at instant speed

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and theres equipment that lets you tap the equipped creature

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vigilance + tap + untap, the perfect efficiency engine

spiral marten
#

id love to pull the Buster Sword, but I expect it will cost a lot if I don't

ornate urchin
#

there is a MDFC boroc legend from strix haven

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the back side can untap and/or tap on attack

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that would be something to think about if you go legendary subtheme

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or more attack trigger so you can keep doing the windcrag siege

spiral marten
#

mdfc's are always great

ornate urchin
#

but i think making countless tokens with mirror is the best in my opinion

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i like mdfcs from that set for how wordy they are XD

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vigilance? no. Untap? No. You untap and you may keep them untap, and then tap again to get the extra boost.

#

[[augusta dean of order]]

junior streamBOT
#

Legendary Creature — Orc Shaman
manat, Discard a card: Draw a card.
mana4manar, manat: Reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a nonlegendary, nonland card with mana value 3 or less. You may cast that card without paying its mana cost. Put all revealed cards not cast this way on the bottom of your library in a random order.
2/2

Augusta, Dean of Order mana2manaw
Legendary Creature — Human Cleric
Other tapped creatures you control get +1/+0.
Other untapped creatures you control get +0/+1.
Whenever you attack, untap each creature you control, then tap any number of creatures you control.
1/3

ornate urchin
#

front side can search for [[sunforger]]

junior streamBOT
ornate urchin
#

in your case, mirror box

spiral marten
#

hmm, I haven't decided if I want to tutor yet

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but i'll keep it in mind if I do

ornate urchin
#

the back side alone is worthy imo

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if you have other things it wont tutor

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or limits what it can get

spiral marten
#

I wonder if [[Hardy Outlander]] is worth including to allow Tifa to pump other creatures for additional triggers

junior streamBOT
ornate urchin
#

it can at least pump that attacking creature by +6 (4 base +2 melee trigger); not only is that a good rate for the mere cost of 2 mana, repeatable enchantment

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it also works with the deck overall game plan of having multiple attacking creatures at one time

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bigger toughness enable the creature survive and get untapped

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unfortunately, idk how many of this type of cards you can add into the deck

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because it is again another effect that does not combo with the normal myriad

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i think trying to get a legendary commander to myriad is naturally hard. if you get it, you will remember that game forever, but most of the cards in the deck probably need to let myriad do the work as non legendaries in the 99 will probably work better. my guess is that some of the boros legend may get cut to make things run smoother

spiral marten
#

Yeah possibly, I'll need to run some tests

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I found [[Goreclaw, Terror]] in my collection

junior streamBOT
spiral marten
#

but not sure if I want more legends

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I do have Garruk's Uprising and Colossal Majesty though

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so theres some solid card draw

ornate urchin
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yeah, this is another one where the deck need to run lot of creatures for the payoff

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i think it maybe meh here because it reinforce the deck weakness of getting wiped

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but it sure buffs TIfa in combat so it is at least worth that much

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both being 4 drop and both need to attack got to be the worst part

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so its probably about the same as [[rancor]]

junior streamBOT
ornate urchin
#

melee +1, trigger +1 and trample

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rancor is +2 trample

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toughness is the part it lose out on

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goreclaw can attack without Tifa attacking, rancor need a creature to target enchant

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if you dont lack creature, i would probably go rancor, if you want to get lot of big creatures (probably cant attack right away) on the field, then goreclaw would help with the cost reduciton

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which may bring another problem with all the colour pips

spiral marten
#

still a bunch of cuts to make (I already cut all the stuff in the maybeboard)

#

I know I should cut a bunch of the Karlach and Aurelia cards, but its hard to convince myself to.

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Its ended up a bit more legends/equipment focused, but I don't want to go full voltron and I prefer to keep the Mirror Box in there just because its fun

ornate urchin
#

oh hello, you came back

#

karlach is the extra combat one so thats probably fine

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i c, you meant the secret lair cards

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well, either cut FF cards or the othere

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10 over is quite a bit especially when some of them dont synergize

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can also ignore certain things that a deck needs such as removal and interaction

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it will decrease your overall effectiveness to react to things in the game, may affect win rate and such. but dont have to worry about tough cuts or what you want to play from all the new cards

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i am someone who would play a deck with blue and close to 0 counter spell cards in the deck

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[[farewell]] is something that basically never synergize with any decks unless you dont pick some of the modes

junior streamBOT
ornate urchin
#

power reset the game button for sure

#

imo, the easiest/hardest way is to build two 99s for the same commander

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whenever oyu want the restriction of no overlap or make one optimized and one just jank and fun thats completely up to the brewer

spiral marten
ornate urchin
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i didnt say your have to cut anything

spiral marten
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The option to wipe out enchantment/artifact/Graveyard decks is too good to pass up

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I get it, was just clarifying

ornate urchin
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just cant play every potential card in the colour identity

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removals are kinda the "nonbo"

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more than myriad without mirror box

spiral marten
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Oh yeah definitely, I'll do another run through, its just hard to remove your pet cards haha

ornate urchin
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even [[cleaver concealment]] cant pick enchantments right or i forgot the wording

junior streamBOT
ornate urchin
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oh it can

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convoke creatures but can target all non lands

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i cant even get myself a ff precon at locals :c

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i think depends on the strategy you pick for yourself

spiral marten
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I ordered all my FF stuff when they first announced it

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so I got it cheap compared to current prices

ornate urchin
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(a bad strategy probably need like 35 cards to support while a good solved one like aristrocats may takes just around 25 ish to function)

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so the better/optimal game plan will give more room

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for pet cards

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unless the pet card happens to be in line with the deck main plan

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i think you can see how many "pet cards" you have in the deck

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one of the worst commander i have built around

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i think i was only able to run like 8 pet cards

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there were like 50 sources of mana and around 30 cards to make the strategy work and then the standard removal and stuff

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if the commander can hold its own, then i could probably play like 15 pet cards without issue

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some of those numbers are ass pull without actuallyl ooking at the decks so take it with a grind of salt

spiral marten
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Tifa is very strong by herself, but yeah, I know there are issues with the deck

ornate urchin
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the myriad is probably under your pet cards

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[[TIfa martial artist]]

junior streamBOT
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Legendary Creature — Human Monk
Melee (Whenever this creature attacks, it gets +1/+1 until end of turn for each opponent you attacked this combat.)
Whenever one or more creatures you control with power 7 or greater deal combat damage to a player, untap all creatures you control. If it's the first combat phase of your turn, there is an additional combat phase after this phase.
4/4

ornate urchin
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[[delina wild mage]]

junior streamBOT
spiral marten
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Yeah, I just don't want to drop 20+ AUD on her

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this list was built with the cards I have on hand

ornate urchin
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I like Delina a lot for the "off synergy" yet synergistic pet card that make tokens

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while it is not real myriad

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and the tokens dont stay

spiral marten
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shes good though, Cadric, Soul Kindler is kind of filling the same role

ornate urchin
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it is one card that doesnt need extra pieces

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to make token copies

spiral marten
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[[Cadric, Soul Kindler]]

junior streamBOT
spiral marten
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Plus he acts like a second Mirror Box

ornate urchin
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so i am a huge fan of delina even when she isnt doing the heavy work in the 99

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two mirror box but you still need another in the 99 to really make myriad happen

spiral marten
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hes not as directly good as Delina though since its not an attack trigger

ornate urchin
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getting 2 exact cards in the 99 is very difficult even if you draw 20 cards per game

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so tutors can be a good consideration; but then again, more cuts to put in redundancy

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i never run more than 3 tutors and most of the time i will end up being forced to get a removal spell

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cos the pod is causing problems all over the table

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i think i would cut the scrawling crawler

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not enough room in the 99

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maybe look for 4 drop that isnt ramp, since commander is 4 cmc

spiral marten
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yeah, I was definitely looking at dropping the crawler since I have better draw now

spiral marten
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My SLD cards won't arrive for a few week, so I moved those to the sideboard, made a couple extra cuts and will test it like this on the weekend

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I had to cut Stranglehold even though the art is awesome because it just makes no sense in the deck

spiral marten
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It's turned into more of a legendary matters multi combat deck now