Golgari Commander Deck Mill/Graveyard, Winter or Old Stickfingers?

[valid pier]

Hi, I recently bought the Death Toll Commander Deck and after I played some games for a couple of weeks with it I realized I need some improvements, I'm not an expert building decks in general but a gathered all my Black and Green cards and need some tips, using my death toll precon and my bulk.
can you guys help me build a better deck using a "Old Stickfingers" or it works best with "Winter, Cynical Opportunist"?
This is the list of the cards I have:
https://archidekt.com/decks/9515677/black_and_green_cards
The decklist from the precon:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/6632016#paper

Golgari Commander Deck Mill/Graveyard

Golgari Commander Deck Mill/Graveyard, Winter or Old Stickfingers?

[cedar oyster]

Baba lysaga, read the bones, village rites, Milliken, wayfarers bauble.

Run winter, then focus on milling yourself so that you can reanimate big juicy targets with winter. Lysaga can help move things from hand to grave and keep cards coming and damage flowing.

Look for adventures, and they have two card types so they make winter more efficient too.

[valid pier]

Okay I did some adjustments, let me know what do you think:
https://archidekt.com/decks/9565207/golgari_millgraveyard_with_winter_cynical_opportunist

[cedar oyster]

Will have to look over later. Work. But I will. Are you amenable to cheap upgrades as well?

[valid pier]

Take your time I understand, about the upgrades Yes, at the moment a friend of mine got a couple of cards for me:
Ripples of Undeath and Golgari Grave-Troll
Just for now I wanna see if I can work it out with my bulk xD

[vapid siren]

Necromantic Thirst seems incredibly slow. You'd need to connect with the creature three times before it's better rate than [[Another Chance]] or equivalent

[forest yacht]

https://scryfall.com/card/lci/90/another-chance

Another Chance <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manab:292901508872273920>

Instant
You may mill two cards. Then return up to two creature cards from your graveyard to your hand. (To mill two cards, put the top two cards of your library into your graveyard.)
The pull of duty was so strong that they barely paused to notice they'd died.

[vapid siren]

Epitaph Golem seems out of place for this list. It's much too slow to be useful for hating on an opponent's graveyard, [[Scavenging Ooze]] or [[keen eyed curator]] would be better in that regard.

And graveyard/self-mill decks like this rarely need to stop themselves from milling out. If you're running a deck that seeks to play from the graveyard and you've got 80% of your deck milled, you should be playing to win from that point rather than simply "not losing".

[forest yacht]

https://scryfall.com/card/dsc/196/scavenging-ooze

Scavenging Ooze <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manag:292901508654301185>

Creature — Ooze
: Exile target card from a graveyard. If it was a creature card, put a +1/+1 counter on Scavenging Ooze and you gain 1 life.
In nature, not a single bone or scrap of flesh goes to waste.
2/2

https://scryfall.com/card/blb/181/keen-eyed-curator

Keen-Eyed Curator <:manag:292901508654301185><:manag:292901508654301185>

Creature — Raccoon Scout
As long as there are four or more card types among cards exiled with Keen-Eyed Curator, it gets +4/+4 and has trample.
: Exile target card from a graveyard.
"Now this one's a real collector's item. They say Lily Emberseed herself drank from this mug when she was still Lily of Valley."
3/3

[vapid siren]

I'd likely recommend more cheap interaction as your deck looks a little all-in on your own gameplan but doesn't seem to have many ways of slowing an opponent down if they're outpacing you

Given the delirium gameplan, [[Lignify]] could be a decent option as it counts for two types that you have few of

[forest yacht]

https://scryfall.com/card/gvl/16/lignify

Lignify <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manag:292901508654301185>

Kindred Enchantment — Treefolk Aura
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature is a Treefolk with base power and toughness 0/4 and loses all abilities.
Bulgo paused, puzzled. What was that rustling sound, and why did he feel so stiff? And how could his feet be so thirsty?

[vapid siren]

Notably, adventure cards do not count for multiple card types while in the graveyard

[cedar oyster]

Well, @valid pier scrap that. This makes no sense, but yeah sure alright, that's magic.

Thanks @vapid siren for the correction

[valid pier]

Okay seems like I'm kinda out of place, I'm not very familiar with Self-Mill/Graveyards decks and my adjustments seems more like an Reanimator/Aristocrat deck right?
@cedar oyster @vapid siren
I tought the point of milling myself was to resurrect some big creatures, but delirium was some high risk and high reward but at the moment I don't have tools to move the finality counter so I opt for other tools to resurrect like ton of spells to return them to my hand

But yeah, I see that my adjustments are slow ://

[valid pier]

Glad I still have this card tho 👀

[vapid siren]

Instead of trying to remove the finality counter, you could include cards that are hard to remove. Returning an enchantment to play with a finality counter is harder to punish for most decks than a creature

[valid pier]

I see 👀

[vapid siren]

As a massive self mill and graveyard player, usually you need to approach your graveyard as a resource that's meant to be exiled in quantities. You'd gladly exile a few small cards to reanimate one big one. It's about balancing the rate of the few small things vs your one big thing

[cedar oyster]

Well. Ideally we don't want to bring the things back to hand. Straight to battlefield is preferred, especially so we can cheat the big mana costs on big targets.

Now you are a reanimator deck with Winter, but we use self mill to make sure we're seeing a lot more targets. The reason we want multiple card types on a single card is so we have to exile fewer things with winter.

And yes, the beauty of winter is getting any type of card, not just creatures.

Most decks that aren't white or green really struggle to punish enchantments. Red has one good option, so does blue, and black flat out just has two options. So an enchant is simply gonna stick, especially if it's the third problem enchantment this game, because there's only so much removal to go around.

Seems you're in good hands with @vapid siren here. So I'll leave you with [[diresight]] and take my leave for the time being. I'll still look over when I have time though.

[forest yacht]

https://scryfall.com/card/blb/91/diresight

Diresight <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manab:292901508872273920>

Sorcery
Surveil 2, then draw two cards. You lose 2 life. (To surveil 2, look at the top two cards of your library, then put any number of them into your graveyard and the rest on top of your library in any order.)
There is a fine line between predicting the future and causing it.

[valid pier]

Thank you so much for the feedback tho, I'm taking notes!!
Later if you still look around I still welcome more tips!!

[vapid siren]

@valid pier I recognize it might be difficult to choose given your recent introduction to deck building, but do you have a sense of if you'd rather play a deck that is bent on reanimating huge creatures or a deck bent on going wide with aristocrat payoffs?

[valid pier]

Okay, so I need to bring [[Rendmaw]] back to the deck

[forest yacht]

https://scryfall.com/card/dsc/5/rendmaw-creaking-nest

Rendmaw, Creaking Nest <:mana3:292901508771610624><:manab:292901508872273920><:manag:292901508654301185>

Legendary Artifact Creature — Scarecrow
Menace, reach
When Rendmaw, Creaking Nest enters and whenever you play a card with two or more card types, each player creates a tapped 2/2 black Bird creature token with flying. The tokens are goaded for the rest of the game. (They attack each combat if able and attack a player other than you if able.)
5/5

[vapid siren]

Likely yes?

[valid pier]

Yea I see your point, It's a good thing that all the cards I cut off the deck have them in place

[vapid siren]

I'd also recommend the Threefold Thunderhulk you've got laying around as it's a sweet card to bring back and is multi-typed too

[valid pier]

I don't have many decks, but I'm familiar with the Orzhov Aristocrat precon deck from Lost Caverns of Ixalan (I upgraded more involve on Elenda than Clavileño sacrificing creatures and stuff).
I always wanted a Golgari reanimator deck so I gave Death Toll a shot

[forest yacht]

Multiple cards match “Elenda”, can you be more specific?

[valid pier]

[[Elenda, the dusk rose]]

[forest yacht]

https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/268/elenda-the-dusk-rose

Elenda, the Dusk Rose <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manab:292901508872273920>

Legendary Creature — Vampire Knight
Lifelink
Whenever another creature dies, put a +1/+1 counter on Elenda, the Dusk Rose.
When Elenda dies, create X 1/1 white Vampire creature tokens with lifelink, where X is Elenda's power.
Her centuries-long search is ended.
1/1

[vapid siren]

Ah nice, yeah I'm familiar with that commander

[valid pier]

Nice, I'm gonna change Epitaph with Threefold then

[valid pier]

Yeah so I did the adjustments with mix ideas from the experience playing with Elenda xD

[vapid siren]

So the whole advantage of reanimating a permanent into play is that you usually get to cheat on mana. Casting a 4 mana commander and exiling a few cards in order to bring back a 7+ mana value permanent means you've gotten to skip ahead of the curve so to speak.

With this in mind, reanimator decks usually want to run a handful of truly powerful cards in the top end of their mana curve that you hope to bring back. Looking at the cards you've got, you've got a few powerful top end spells, but likely not enough for the classic "reanimator" style.

On the bright side, there's a lot of top end cards with powerful effects that no one wants to play because they're too over costed if you have to cast them, which means they tend to be cheap to buy (they also tend to be really fun to buy as well because they're these big splashy effects)

Alternatively, you lean more into aristocrats which tends to be a very midrange strategy. Lots of 2-5 drops.

[valid pier]

Indeed, most of my cards are not expensive and you can see most of my expensive cards were cut off the deck xD

So turns out I was actually doing the opposite xD

[vapid siren]

Hey no worries, I play $15 budget decks, I'm well aware of cost impacts haha

[valid pier]

Oh, I was refering to mana cost xD

[vapid siren]

oh duh

[valid pier]

But yeah most of the cards are bulk because I bought a 1k bulk cards from Starcitygames xD

It got very good cards at first hand tho

Okay then, so I need to bring back those mana expensive cards back to the deck so I can reanimate them

that's the point right?

[vapid siren]

I've got to get going in like 15min. What advice/info would be most helpful for you before then?

[vapid siren]

Yeah, you'll need to use some trial and error to figure out your ratio of big fat top end cards and low to the ground ways to fill up your graveyard.

And as previously mentioned, double typed cards are your friend.

[valid pier]

Bring back big bois to the battlefield with paying the mana cost

[valid pier]

Got it chief, that'd do

[vapid siren]

If you want to truly feel like you're cheating, I'd recommend finding the top end creatures that have some horrible downside if you cast them. There's a lot of demons that are balanced around needing to sacrifice some number of things as you cast them; but you don't have to do any of that if you simply put them into play with Winter.

[valid pier]

like Vile Mutilator? xD

[vapid siren]

[[Dusk Mangler]] is a favorite of mine, but there's more here: https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&order=name&q=(oracle%3Aas+oracle%3Aan+oracle%3Aadditional+oracle%3Acost)+type%3Acreature+commander%3ABG+(game%3Apaper)

[forest yacht]

https://scryfall.com/card/clb/751/dusk-mangler

Dusk Mangler <:mana5:292901508796645386><:manab:292901508872273920><:manab:292901508872273920>

Creature — Horror
As an additional cost to cast this spell, sacrifice a creature, discard a card, or pay 4 life.
When Dusk Mangler enters, each opponent sacrifices a creature, discards a card, and loses 4 life.
5/4

[vapid siren]

yep, Vile Mutilator is another great example

[valid pier]

'kay

[vapid siren]

Last thing I'd share would be some advice when you get into testing and playing the deck. I'd recommend keeping track of what card types you find yourself most easily exiling and which ones are harder to find. If you consistently find yourself struggling to get delirium because you're running too many creatures and not enough lands that sacrifice themselves, then you know to swap out a land for a [[riveteers overlook]] or something.

[forest yacht]

https://scryfall.com/card/snc/255/riveteers-overlook

Riveteers Overlook

Land
When Riveteers Overlook enters, sacrifice it. When you do, search your library for a basic Swamp, Mountain, or Forest card, put it onto the battlefield tapped, then shuffle and you gain 1 life.
Along the outer girders, in gold filigree, are inscribed the names of all those who fell to their deaths during construction.

[valid pier]

Just a last question tho, do I still need the planeswalkers? I cut both Onyx and Ob nixilis but I still have the other ones in the deck

[vapid siren]

I don't think Ob nixilis really fits into your gameplan here. Onyx maybe...? I've literally never seen her played before so I have no idea how to evaluate her power outside of the infinite combos.

Grist seems good, the fact that they count as creature + planeswalker is nice, I run one in my delirium deck. Wrenn and Seven is great in most mill decks, would recommend keeping it in.

tldr: you did a great job evaluating which ones fit the deck. good job!

[valid pier]

Thank you so much for your feedback!!! I was confusing at first but your tips really clear my mind on what should I do with the deck @vapid siren

[vapid siren]

Yeah, self-mill and graveyard strategies in general can be difficult to wrap your mind around the first time you try them out

I hope the deck works out for you, please let me know if you pull off a sweet reanimation play!

[valid pier]

I will, thank you!!!

[valid pier]

Okay I pulled 5

And put 5 in

[valid pier]

pd: I put Vile Mutilator in back again

[vapid siren]

I might suggest swapping the journal back in for the dreadwurm, but the rest all look pretty fun!

[valid pier]

I gave it a try with my pod milling a lot of my library and resurrecting big scary monsters, It results very funny to play but also got even more cards to make some adjustments, I focused on getting two types card just for the sake of Winter's Delirium

When I get the chance I'll post the list of the new cards

I even got the [[Shigeki, Jukai Visionary]] and the land that removes counters!!1

[forest yacht]

https://scryfall.com/card/dsc/198/shigeki-jukai-visionary

Shigeki, Jukai Visionary <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manag:292901508654301185>

Legendary Enchantment Creature — Snake Druid
, , Return Shigeki, Jukai Visionary to its owner's hand: Reveal the top four cards of your library. You may put a land card from among them onto the battlefield tapped. Put the rest into your graveyard.
Channel — , Discard Shigeki: Return X target nonlegendary cards from your graveyard to your hand.
1/3

[valid pier]

https://www.moxfield.com/decks/28XXgZfSNE226xHQAo1zpA

The cards on the sideboard are the ones I got from a friend, some interesting picks
@vapid siren what do you think?

[vapid siren]

This link leads to a 404 error. Can you check the viewing permissions?

[valid pier]

Oh, let me work on that sorry for the inconvenience :c

[valid pier]

https://archidekt.com/decks/9565207/golgari_millgraveyard_with_winter_cynical_opportunist
@vapid siren it is done, the thing is [[Overlord of the balemurk]] and [[Fear of the dark]] are strong additions but I don't know what to cut now xD

[forest yacht]

https://scryfall.com/card/dsk/113/overlord-of-the-balemurk

Overlord of the Balemurk <:mana3:292901508771610624><:manab:292901508872273920><:manab:292901508872273920>

Enchantment Creature — Avatar Horror
Impending 5— (If you cast this spell for its impending cost, it enters with five time counters and isn't a creature until the last is removed. At the beginning of your end step, remove a time counter from it.)
Whenever Overlord of the Balemurk enters or attacks, mill four cards, then you may return a non-Avatar creature card or a planeswalker card from your graveyard to your hand.
5/5

https://scryfall.com/card/dsk/98/fear-of-the-dark

Fear of the Dark <:mana4:292901508712890379><:manab:292901508872273920>

Enchantment Creature — Nightmare
Whenever Fear of the Dark attacks, if defending player controls no Glimmer creatures, it gains menace and deathtouch until end of turn. (A creature with menace can't be blocked except by two or more creatures.)
The first thing it kills is the light.
5/5

[vapid siren]

Oooo yeah, I can see you've put some realy work into honing the list and now it looks pretty neat (but yes that comes with the downside of making any cuts rather difficult haha)

I'd likely cut the Golgari Thug and whichever of the 6+ drop creatures excites you the least. Dredge creatures are best when you can repeatedly discard them away, they're pretty mediocre if you have to cast them and wait for them to die in order to dredge them again.

Looking at a few other cards, I'd recommend swapping the Season of Renewal for [[Another chance]] because the Season's ability to return enchantments is only uniquely relevant for four cards.

[forest yacht]

https://scryfall.com/card/lci/90/another-chance

Another Chance <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manab:292901508872273920>

Instant
You may mill two cards. Then return up to two creature cards from your graveyard to your hand. (To mill two cards, put the top two cards of your library into your graveyard.)
The pull of duty was so strong that they barely paused to notice they'd died.

[valid pier]

Yea a couple of weeks ago I bought like $20 worth of useful cards for this deck, since then I've been cooking with some gas

But wait there's more!

I attended the Trick or Threat event

Those are from two Mystery Booster packs

[valid pier]

Those are from the Duskmourn packs

[valid pier]

It was a nice event after all (8

[vapid siren]

What abilities are you hoping to use with Necrotic Ooze? It doesn't look like there that much many creatures with activated abilities, and a lot of them are simple mana creatures which aren't as impactful on a 4 drop instead of a 2 drop.

[valid pier]

That's an interesting question, I was hoping to get something something useful tapping [[Ghoulcaller's Bell]] forcing the table to mill cards, It's not like using it right away but more like a long shot because Necrotic Ooze affects all the graveyards

[forest yacht]

https://scryfall.com/card/isd/224/ghoulcallers-bell

Ghoulcaller's Bell <:mana1:292901508373282827>

Artifact
: Each player mills a card.
The bell's chime heralds the rise of the unhallowed from the grave and the fall of their victims into the earth.

[valid pier]

Also helps [[Nighthowler]] too

[forest yacht]

https://scryfall.com/card/clb/764/nighthowler

Nighthowler <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manab:292901508872273920><:manab:292901508872273920>

Enchantment Creature — Horror
Bestow (If you cast this card for its bestow cost, it's an Aura spell with enchant creature. It becomes a creature again if it's not attached to a creature.)
Nighthowler and enchanted creature each get +X/+X, where X is the number of creature cards in all graveyards.
0/0

[vapid siren]

Ah, so Necrotic Ooze doesn't actually work with either of those cards 😐

It specifies that it only has the "activated abilities" of "creature cards". The bell isn't a creature card and the nighthowler's ability is a static ability and not an activated one (all activated abilities have a cost followed by a semicolon followed by the effect of the ability upon resolution).

The only abilities Necrotic Ooze works with in your deck (apart from the mana abilities on Dryad Arbor etc which aren't very exciting) are Haywire Mite, Sakura Tribe Elder, Scavenging Ooze, Shigeki, Twitching Doll, Tymmaret, and Nyx Weaver.

Also notably, Necrotic Ooze might draw undue hate because it's a card that is used as an infinite combo engine ~80% of the time. So be aware that you might get targeted excessively when playing it.

Personally, I'd recommend taking it out (or, I suppose, joining the 80% and building a combo like [[pili-pala]] + [[palladium myr]]). It really depends on what style of deck you want and if you're comfortable playing infinite combos in your games.

[forest yacht]

https://scryfall.com/card/shm/258/pili-pala

Pili-Pala <:mana2:292901509060886528>

Artifact Creature — Scarecrow
Flying
, : Add one mana of any color. ( is the untap symbol.)
It wasn't really expected to fly. Then again, it wasn't expected to move, either.
1/1

https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/967/palladium-myr

Palladium Myr <:mana3:292901508771610624>

Artifact Creature — Myr
: Add .
The myr are like the Glimmervoid: blank canvases on which to build grand creations.
2/2

[valid pier]

No, I was refering to use the bell as a tool to force the others to mill (hopefully milling a creature) and then use those creatures' effects on Ooze because affects to all graveyards but I see the point of don't be a target so I might cut it tho

Maybe swapping Ooze for [[Fear of the Dark]]

[forest yacht]

https://scryfall.com/card/dsk/98/fear-of-the-dark

Fear of the Dark <:mana4:292901508712890379><:manab:292901508872273920>

Enchantment Creature — Nightmare
Whenever Fear of the Dark attacks, if defending player controls no Glimmer creatures, it gains menace and deathtouch until end of turn. (A creature with menace can't be blocked except by two or more creatures.)
The first thing it kills is the light.
5/5

[valid pier]

And done, now we wait for testing with the pod xD

I swapp [[stinging cave crawler]] with [[grasping longneck]]

[forest yacht]

https://scryfall.com/card/lci/124/stinging-cave-crawler

Stinging Cave Crawler <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manab:292901508872273920>

Creature — Insect Horror
Deathtouch
Descend 4 — Whenever Stinging Cave Crawler attacks, if there are four or more permanent cards in your graveyard, you draw a card and you lose 1 life.
Caverns uninhabited by mycoids are often infested with worse.
1/3

https://scryfall.com/card/dsk/180/grasping-longneck

Grasping Longneck <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manag:292901508654301185>

Enchantment Creature — Horror
Reach
When Grasping Longneck dies, you gain 2 life.
"We ran, but it was all around us—like a writhing, flailing forest of rubbery limbs and stabbing talons." —Survivor's journal
4/2

[valid pier]

Also [[street wraith]] with [[slavering branchsnapper]]

[forest yacht]

https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/102/street-wraith

Street Wraith <:mana3:292901508771610624><:manab:292901508872273920><:manab:292901508872273920>

Creature — Wraith
Swampwalk (This creature can't be blocked as long as defending player controls a Swamp.)
Cycling—Pay 2 life. (Pay 2 life, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
The lamps on Wyndmoor Street snuff themselves at midnight and refuse to relight, afraid to illuminate what lies in the darkness.
3/4