[Closed]

[hybrid furnace]

Given that #quick-rules-questions has a slowmode to prevent discussion from occurring in the channel, I am very worried that this change would do exactly that. When I see a slowmode on a channel I usually don’t want to engage there as I have a typing style that doesn’t work with slowmode. And even if this wasn’t an issue, a slowmode is still stifling discussion because that is exactly what slowmode is meant to do.

As one of many people who does often type using shorter messages, this would be more than a minor inconvenience for me. I’m sorry if it annoys you but short messages are very common and I have never had any issue reading them.

I also don’t think a slowmode would be inviting to new people. It gives the impression that a slowmode on every discussion channel is neccesary, which implies to them that there are often consistent arguments and would likely turn people away.

You’re correct that it would force people to think about responses longer but you’re also correct that this is a very partial solution. I don’t think the pros outweigh the cons here.

[quartz oracle]

There's also the element that Discussion channels aren't expected to be formal gatherings of theorycrafting and postulation. They're fluid, casual, shift from classic rules check ins to more wild explorations of rules and gamestates and jokes. Quick Rules has a slowmode to discourage longform discussion there as it's intended for Quick Rules and Answers.

[solar drum]

As the honorary deputy mayor of suggestion land I'd like to modify this edict to exclude suggestion land. Tanks you.

[smoky estuary]

slow mode tends to be useful for channels where low input is desired (such as #quick-rules-questions ) or where there is a high amount of activity ( #speculation-and-spoilers used to go in slow mode for an amount of time when a new character was releasing)

I think slow mode in the many discussion channels that exist, which does not have a high volume compared to other servers, would only inhibit normal, every day discussion, while not really doing anything for a person who would engage in a circular argument...their argument is going to be circular whether they're responding 5 seconds later or 30 seconds later

[craggy belfry]

All of the references to #quick-rules-questions ignore that my suggestion was a 15 or 30 second cooldown, not a minute cooldown.

A 15 second cooldown doesn’t make discussion channels “formal gatherings of theorycrafting”, nor is it “more than a minor inconvenience” to any adult to type in complete sentences (as you just did) instead of hit send every five words.

[smoky estuary]

they don't ignore the difference, it merely points out that there is a reason #quick-rules-questions has a cooldown at all, which doesn't apply to other discussion channels

[quartz oracle]

It’s explaining where we have used cool-downs before and why we think it’s only suitable for that channel

Additionally, Pebbles directly stated it would be a Minor Inconvenies to him and a long form paragraph doesn’t mean it isn’t.

[craggy belfry]

Just because cooldown is used for one purpose in one channel doesn’t mean it can’t be used for a different purpose in another channel. A 15 second cooldown is almost nothing.

[smoky estuary]

I think it would be a minor inconvenience to just about anyone who regularly uses those channels

[craggy belfry]

What is the downside to trying a 15 second cooldown in #experimental-chat for three days as I suggested?

[smoky estuary]

having to arbitrarily wait 15 seconds to send the next message

it breaks up natural discussion and commenting

(the previous two messages were sent less than 15 seconds apart)

[quartz oracle]

At the moment to my knowledge it is only yourself who is concerned about having a cool-down but the suggestion has only been open a few hours so let’s give it some time to see if others support this idea but do acknowledge that a few voices have seen this suggestion as not quite applicable to the discussion channels

[craggy belfry]

What’s funny is your two messages here could easily be combined as one message and made easier to read

[smoky estuary]

if both thoughts were thought up at the same time, they could have been combined, sure...it wouldn't be inherently easier to read, but all the same

[quartz oracle]

Folks just have a different way of typing

I like to use gifs

https://tenor.com/view/duck-with-sunglasses-driving-car-gif-15362018975526912371

[craggy belfry]

Imagine the horror of waiting a few seconds before posting on the internet! Shock and horror!😱

[quartz oracle]

Now now we don’t need to start being sarcastic

Isn’t this what you wanted to avoid?

[frosty lodge]

I much prefer being able to type as I think, and I don't know that I find longer messages any better or worse than a series of shorter messages? So my 2c would be against this

[craggy belfry]

This conversation is absurd, and I’m gone for now!

[smoky estuary]

it's a communication style that I've seen consistently for the last 30 years

[latent thunder]

Imo slow mode sucks. It's really easy to find reasons to send two successive messages that aren't people who send their sentences in 3 parts (also who cares? It's at worst a small inconveniance for backreading), like you forgot to mention something in your original message that takes 3 words to say, saying "no" to someone, responding to two people successively

Or adding an extra example at the end of a list ()

[noble prairie]

Personally, I only find lots of short messages annoying when they give you notifications

I am like lepakon, I often think of something else to add on to a message after posting it

(Or I feel the need to immediately clarify something because I realise I have said something wrong, or something that could be interpreted wrong)

[latent thunder]

I don't think anyone would have notifications on for the channels Nick wants to add slow mode tbf

[noble prairie]

This gave me a notification lol. It's only something that is annoying though for me when there are multiple notifications though, so unless people start pinging me in every message lol, I don't mind (people are free to have their own opinion though, there could be other people who also prefer reading messages in one block as opposed to a million short ones, like Nick)

[craggy belfry]

Needing to add thoughts or clarify what you meant happens less when your rate of sending messages is slowed down a bit. You can also edit messages.

I'm realizing now that what I really desire is a five second cool down, which allows sending quick clarifying messages and just prevents

typing like

this

I mean

I said 15 or 30 seconds because I assumed that's the lowest Discord can go with a cooldown, but I'm not sure. Would anyone support a five second cool down, or at least be open to trying it out?

[noble prairie]

I wouldn't be opposed to trialing a five second cooldown, but idk how much work it would be for mods, and many of our mods are overworked already

[latent thunder]

5s slow mode is just a passive inconvenience for everyone without doing much imo

[hybrid furnace]

So your issue is literally just people typing in a certain way?

[craggy belfry]

Only a 21st century 1st world westerner could be surprised that someone doesn't like that style of communication. How far we've come.

[hybrid furnace]

Why are you resorting to personal insults? That’s entirely unnecessary. I was trying to clarify what your issue was. Please be respectful

[craggy belfry]

There are millions of 21st century 1st world westerners, it's not personal

[hybrid furnace]

It sure came across as personal

[craggy belfry]

Being criticized and being personally criticized are not the same thing

[craggy belfry]

And for what it's worth, this message is obviously belittling, not just seeking clarification. "literally just"

[hybrid furnace]

It was not intended to be belittling. I’m sorry it came across that way

[craggy belfry]

Then I'm sorry I directed my sociological reflection at you in particular

[devout pulsar]

i feel like this "suggestion" is coming from a place of annoyance of how people type which will unlikey be fixed with a cooldown of x seconds. People type in different styles and people shouldn't be called out for that or are going to change because a small minority wants them to

[craggy belfry]

It's not really a secret that this is partially about my being annoyed–I said so in the first paragraph on the post

[devout pulsar]

If i saw every discussion channel had a cooldown im less likely to want to type anything in there or actually have a conversation. It can be annoying having a channel cluttered up with 1 word messages for sure but that is just life online that people type that way

not to belittle the issue but it feels like this suggestion is a rant about 1 specific issue you want everyone to change for you or have mods enforce it with a cooldown while it would actively harm/discourage all other discussion channels from having free flowing conversations

[craggy belfry]

You think typing one word messages is inherent to online communication? That is not how people communicated on internet forums for a long time, nor is it how people converse on Youtube, Reddit, X, etc.

Maybe the takeaway here is that Discord is a low form of communication and I should stop treating this server as a de facto BOTC community. It's a shame because this is the largest gathering of BOTC players.

[craggy belfry]

...okay? This is false, presumptuous, and irrelevant.

[red condor]

Considering sending messages in segments is also part of tone (eg sending “well” after you initially disagree with someone then sending “you’re right” has a different pacing than “well you’re right”), I think that, while your argument may be for the benefit of backreaders, it would not help defuse arguments before they start because people can just type long paragraphs about how someone is wrong.

[devout pulsar]

if you want these in depth discussion with people typing in a way in which you are happy with surely the places you have mentioned here or other discord servers with are more suited to that might be better? I mean this is a larger server which inherently has people with many different levels of interests in the game so won't appeal to people who may want to communicate in a more form style which i think is what you seem to prefer for longer thought out messages. While im sure other voices might help here with the issues, so far from the people i see in the discussion spaces a lot seem to agree that this is a none issue as people are different and therefore have different communication styles.

[red condor]

Ironically, implementing a cooldown would take away the time to pause. I know that with a cooldown I’m more likely to think about “the next thing about what I was saying” than “is what is being said reasonable?”

[red condor]

Would a cool down have prevented this issue, for example

People like separate messages for separate topics, so forcing people into longform messaging would decrease the engagement with multiple ideas at a time.

[craggy belfry]

The size of this server is exactly why I want it implemented here.

[craggy belfry]

A five second cooldown doesn't force people to type an essay covering their BOTC thoughts for the day.

[red condor]

And a five second cooldown isn’t necessary for that.

[craggy belfry]

I said it was a partial solution. The arguments on this server are faster and contain more messages than the spat Pebbles and I had above.

I see that this is a lost cause.

[queen cradle]

My suggestion would be to leave this up for a while and see if there are those to support it.

[grave forge]

I don't think this is beneficial. Given I quite often given lengthier explanations and reasoning within the channels, this won't have a direct effect for myself (save for some things I comment below) but a number of new or inexperienced individuals who come to those channels often ask back and forth style questions that can be answered more quickly or have issues that be pointed out in brief statements. Cooldowns fundamentally restrict being able to briefly answer this in a quick back and forth, and instead extend the timeframe.

Further, I doubt anyone who wishes to communicate their thoughts with such swiftness would be all that more thoughtful when introduced with a cooldown wall instead of simply staring down the timer waiting for it to end with the statement they already thought of.

Even assuming it would be more inviting to new members, I'd be disincentivized to communicate in channels with cooldowns due to the restriction and being unable to correct or append to thoughts after the matter until the cooldown is over.

[signal plank]

As someone who often finds myself responding to several people in quick succession, 15 seconds is a lot. Discord isn't a 2-way conversation, it's a lot of jumbled ideas from different perspectives coming together in one place--which is what it should be. The implication you're making is that any given person is responding to only one thread of conversation. If I'm responding to 4, then it'll take a full minute to respond to one of those threads. By then, lots of other things will have happened, and useful thoughts will be lost in the sauce

Also the whole "write in complete sentences" thing is explicitly stifling linguistic self expression

If you want the benefits of a slowmode, we have the avenues for that!! Many of us have written up our thoughts on various aspects of the game in a more longform setting on substack/tumblr/other sites. I know that I personally consider everything I say there more carefully; there's a place for both kinds of communication

[craggy belfry]

I have edited the original message to reflect that I want a five second cooldown, not 15 or 30.

[grave forge]

Not really sure what that would stop?

I am using a timer right now.

And I am typing every 5 seconds

This hasn't done anything

I'm able to type all I want

[craggy belfry]

You're typing slower than some people type. See here^

Maybe 10 seconds would work for what I want instead

[grave forge]

I'm able to type quickly enough. Anyone else wanting to massively undone loads of messages aren't really stopped by a 5 second timer unless they're really fast typers and really able to think quickly

If I'm typing slower than others in that moment, they can type faster and even more, making the 5 second cooldown meaningless.

[signal plank]

20 second cooldown to respond to person #4 is still excessive

[grave forge]

Not sure if a 10 second timer would accomplish what you want either. Someone wanting to spam quick thoughts in a heated conversation would still be able to do so?

[signal plank]

Yes, yes it is. Having a free flowing, variable length chat space is one of the biggest strengths of discord because it allows for that freedom of linguistic identity. The reason this wasn't so common in the past was because there wasn't a medium that allowed for it. Take Reddit, for example. It's structured for posts that are much longer, rather than back and forth messages. This leads to people posting their complete thoughts with no outside input. People get in their own heads, and convince themselves that their opinion is objectively correct just because it's been spinning around in their mind for longer. Discord and its short messages open up the floor for early responses, so that more people can actively collaborate to build up their thoughts on a topic. Not letting people respond to you means you're not letting people disagree with you, so you're just thrusting your opinions on people and implicitly calling yourself infallible.

There's also value in linguistic identity. I was raised around a lot of white people so I talk like this, but lots of people don't, and that's a really good thing!! Asking people to talk in the "correct" way just reinforces harmful elitist linguistic techniques that have been around for centuries. Don't tell people how to structure their sentences, it's more harmful than you probably think. Let people send their 1-message "hm"s and "what"s and "yeah"s

[smoky estuary]

typing in this kind of format has been around for decades

I've been doing it since the 90s

we just called them "chat rooms" back then 🙂