gusty void
My first attempt at a full homebrew (with much help from people in this server)! Now that it's first draft is completed, feel free to leave any thoughts, questions or critiques!
This script has an aesthetic theme (nature/the forest) and a mechanical theme (directionality). There are several mechanical subthemes that I've attempted to balance.
The major theme of directionality: a significant number of characters have their abilities require the Storyteller pick a direction (with a few more who incorporate directionality without this). These characters revolve around the Townsfolk Moonlight and Fabled Sunlight, which limit which directions the Storyteller can pick when, allowing direction-based information to be more solvable.
Characters that Moon/Sunlight affect: Flittermouse, Devil's Thorn, Sequoia, Raccoon, Honeysuckle, Wapiti, Nightshade, Corpsefly, Ambersap. 4/3/2/0 for 9 characters total.
(Wolf, Queen Bee, Vulture, and Rootstalk also deal with directional mechanics but are not affected)
Subthemes for mechanical balance:
Multikill: Exactly 1 character of each type allows for the possibility of extra night deaths, as all demons only choose one player to die each night. These characters are Mantis, Nightshade, Fox, and Thörn. My hope is that with these four, the source of an additional night death can be solved in the long run without being made obvious.
False Info: Several characters afflict or suffer from droisoning or misregistration, and I am not totally sure if there's too much or too little.
Droisoning characters: Rootstalk (limited by slow directional movement of the poison), Corpsefly (limited by interaction with the dead), Honeysuckle (limited by it reaching a neighbor), & Honey Badger (limited by requiring good votes).
Self-droisoning characters: Raccoon & Worker Bee
Misregistering characters: Mycotaa & Ambersap
It's worth noting that Opiu'm and Wapiti somewhat fall under this category as well, as their ability causes an unexpected alignment change.
Aesthetics: No characters are humanoid: all are animals, plants, or incorporeal. My goal in the naming choices of this script was to create the world of a temperate forest in which something unnameably unnatural is occurring. The image of this forest should be clear, but I don't want the location of this forest to be made clear. While a couple of character names have Native American roots, most aren't particular to a certain country and some are more rooted in Eurasia. If you feel that certain character names are too boring or American, let me know!
gusty void
changed Opiu'm by giving them 4 bluffs to cover their good Minion
gusty void
Update: I've realized Corpsefly has bad interactions with Mantis & Wapiti, which I think is made reasonable if the Corpsefly is forced to choose a newly deceased player instead of merely having the option to.
upper hatch
Hey! Could share more on what is a secretly good Minion? Are they good-aligned, or evil-aligned registering as good?
red hollow
Hey! Could share more on what is a secretly good Minion? Are they good-aligned, ...
its a good minion who thinks that they are evil
twin sinew
My first attempt at a full homebrew (with much help from people in this server)!...
Ambersap seems really sad if they don't start neighbouring a minion as they will never cause any misreg
sturdy linden
My first attempt at a full homebrew (with much help from people in this server)!...
two worker bees in a small game is rough
what if the flittermouse chosen person neighbors two good?
is honey guess public or private
wildfire seems like a hard win condition to pull of
gusty void
Ambersap seems really sad if they don't start neighbouring a minion as they will...
“Outsider neighbor” means the same thing as “alive neighbor” or “Townsfolk neighbor” so yes they always cause misreg
gusty void
two worker bees in a small game is rough
what if the flittermouse chosen person ...
the drunkenness of worker bees helps mitigate that, it prevents them from fully coordinating their info by forcing them to pick entirely new players, also worker bee is the easiest role on the script to bluff
gusty void
two worker bees in a small game is rough
what if the flittermouse chosen person ...
“Evil neighbor” means the same as “alive neighbor” and “townsfolk neighbor” so it doesn’t matter if the persons direct neighbors are good
gusty void
two worker bees in a small game is rough
what if the flittermouse chosen person ...
The honey guess is private, it functions the same as puzzlemaster
gusty void
two worker bees in a small game is rough
what if the flittermouse chosen person ...
I might test more with wildfire but the point of wildfire isn’t to cause evil wins it’s to make good people more scared to vote and therefore gives evil more voting power
multiple of yall seem to have misunderstood some of the neighbor wording is there perhaps a better way I could phrase the abilities of roles like Ambersap & Flittermouse?
sturdy linden
closest evil/outsider makes more sense with what you're trying
honeysuckle, honeybadger, worker bee, raccoon, corpsefly, ambersap, rootstalk, mycota all cause misinfo or poisoning
this might be too much, considering some of these are unpredictable
gusty void
im fine with raccoon and worker bee self-droisoning bc it balances their characters but for the others yeah im a bit concerned
i structured them so that they're all contained in some way but it might be too much to keep track of
gusty void
closest evil/outsider makes more sense with what you're trying
the thing is if i said "closest alive player in a direction" or "closest Townsfolk in a direction" that's just the same as "alive neighbor" or "Townsfolk neighbor"
sturdy linden
the thing is if i said "closest alive player in a direction" or "closest Townsfo...
I guess that works
Also what does a grim of this look like
seems like TONS of reminder tokens at first glance
gusty void
you'd be right lol
lemme pull up a mock grim
example of a n1, not too much going on but it can get a good bit worse
twin sinew
“Outsider neighbor” means the same thing as “alive neighbor” or “Townsfolk neigh...
Yeah, mb
gusty void
no worries
sturdy linden
the direction is consistent for each ability?
gusty void
depends on the ability
for roles like Ambersap and Honeysuckle a direction is picked n1 and never again
for roles like Devil's Thorn and Raccoon a direction is chosen n1 and doesn't change when they act each night (their abilities say "fixed direction" for this reason)
for roles like Flittermouse, Corpsefly, & Sequoia a direction is decided on the spot when their ability activates
gusty void
the direction is consistent for each ability?
if there is an alive sober & healthy Moonlight the direction is consistent all the time yeah
otherwise Sunlight makes it switch every time in the night order
not sure if i answered your question well
gusty void
they're sort of solvable but it rly depends on which chars are in play & when they die
you have a point tho i want to test a few games b4 i decide if sunlight is good for the script
sturdy linden
Also whats the night order
gusty void
My first attempt at a full homebrew (with much help from people in this server)!...
it's on the 2nd sheet
sturdy linden
I still dont get opium. is the good minion looking at a TF/Outsider token like a 
or a Minion token?
gusty void
the good Minion is a Minion who is good, so they have a Minion token & ability
sturdy linden
so in a 12p game you could have a opium, corpsefly. wildfire, and a fox who is actually good
and the first 3 know the fox is good?
gusty void
correct!
sturdy linden
does the fox get minion/demon info
gusty void
they do
the storyteller decides what, but on this script it should 99% of the time be correct info except for a minion the storyteller leaves out
sturdy linden
i would add "if wrong, learn arbitrary info" to the end of honeysuckle. Otherwise day 1 they have a 50/50 shot of confirming a good player
gusty void
if the honeysuckle has an evil neighbor its not 50 50
upper hatch
what happens if honeysuckle has two evil neighbours?
sturdy linden
its like 
i think so it extends
gusty void
i couuld change it to Townsfolk neighbor who gets drunk
which decreases the chance of it being a direct neighbor a bit more
sturdy linden
if there is no moonlight, does anyone know what direction the ST is picking?
gusty void
nope
sturdy linden
a lot of info seems unsolvable then
gusty void
how so?
the abilities are structured such that confirming a consistent direction helps but even w/o it you still get good info
sturdy linden
does the direction switch each night with no moonlight? or each ability?
gusty void
each ability
but honestly it might be better if it was arbitrary like N0ll suggested, ill see after playtesting
gusty void
decided to update Honeysuckle to "alive Townsfolk neighbor" instead of "alive good neighbor"
here is updated script using cool website
gusty void
changed Sunlight to do nothing but im still keeping it on the script bc its nice to have extra Clockwise and Anti-Clockwise reminder tokens
adjusted the wording of Flittermouse and Sequoia slightly
gusty void
adjusted Ginseng's wording bc I forgot the part where they aren't allowed to choose themselves
sturdy linden
if Sequoia chooses two neighboring dead players, and the direction is the long way, dont they learn like 10 characters?
gusty void
well they only learn alive evil characters
but if the direction is the long way then yes, they go over the grand majority of the grim
sturdy linden
Oh i missed “alive evil”
gusty void
yeah if it learned every character it would be insane lol
the thing is that the Sequoia probably isn't going to get info from the long direction unless they're confident that there's a Moonlight in play and that they know the Moonlight direction
and if they fuck up they learn literally nothing
sturdy linden
Does the nightshade death happen at a specific night order
gusty void
lemme send the full night order
bc ive never done one before and would like feedback if possible
sturdy linden
And what if you add a “might” to Mantis
gusty void
for mantis death is information
so the might removes the info
ive never really done a night order b4, it's just based on what seems right
also ignore sunlight it doesn't do anything anymore
minion & demon info has also disappeared for some reason but just ignore that 
sturdy linden
From reading just the abilities its hard to tell, but hopefully the other death modification does make mantis less strong
gusty void
the four extra nightkill roles are Mantis, Nightshade, Fox, & Thörn
i dont expect mantis to be terribly strong? but we'll see
sturdy linden
I still think honeysuckle should get arbitrary info if wrong, like 
gusty void
maybe? my reasons for not wanting that is bc it makes it a less viable evil bluff and the honeysuckle is more inclined to get themselves executed immediately if they dont think they have a mission to accomplish
one thing i really want with the outsiders on here is for them to not immediately kill themselves
their abilities support that, Mycotaa supports that by wanting dead outsiders
a correct puzzlemaster solves the game so it makes sense to give them wrong info, but a correct honeysuckle just confirms a Townsfolk so to me that feels too harsh
sturdy linden
Maybe keep the drunkunness even if guessed?
sturdy linden
Or remove the character confirmation. Just have them learn a yes or no if they’re correct
gusty void
oh i should do that
bc its simpler but functionally is the same ability
Honeysuckle: 1 of your alive Townsfolk neighbors is drunk. If you guess (once) who it is, you learn this & become drunk.
sturdy linden
also whats the point of one guess when the drunkunness moves
gusty void
well thats why when you guess it the drunkenness goes away
ideally you want to catch it before the original one dies and it moves further away
slight update, changed the wording of a few Townsfolk abilities to match the script sorter tool (which i did not know the specifics of b4), now everything shows up in an order that actually makes sense
finally moonlight can be last
sturdy linden
Another helpful thing would be another symbol to indicate which abilities depend on the ST choosing direction
like the * for not the first night
gusty void
that would be very cool
im not sure how to do that though?
should i add a symbol to their name?
sturdy linden
How does flittermouse interact with direction
Devils thorn is also confusing at first read
gusty void
Devils thorn is also confusing at first read
i agree but im admittedly not sure how to word it better under the char limit
sturdy linden
What are you trying to do with it
gusty void
the devil's thorn learns in-play characters that go around the circle, confirming what is or isn't in play
its kind of like a mini mini savant with directionality
but it has to solve the puzzle to get its info which is why they learn 2 characters each night and have to find which direction their info goes in
sturdy linden
Send an example with a mock grim if you can
gusty void
sure thing
Devil's Thorn:
n1 -- Corpsefly or Wildfire
n2 -- Wapiti or Sequoia
n3 -- Opiu'm or Vulture
n4 -- Thörn or Flittermouse
n5 -- Fox or Horned Owl (rotation completed)
as marked on the grim their direction is anticlockwise
sturdy linden
the same direction each night?
gusty void
"fixed direction" so yes
it never changes
otherwise the info might as well be arbitrary
sturdy linden
so the interpretation is wapiti or sequoia is farther ACW than corpsefly or wildfire
gusty void
yep
a decent number of the characters they learn will be face-up good players so they can eventually pinpoint their info better
sturdy linden
it cant be equidistant right
gusty void
no such thing as equidistant for this ability
it just keeps going in a direction
hmm okay actually I see a snag with this ability but I’ll change it later
I’ll add “you learn when you complete one grim rotation” or something similar
sturdy linden
For corpsefly how many abillities are worth getting for evil
Outsiders seem like the best, not many tf
gusty void
Corpsefly doesn’t care about most info roles
but it really wants Mantis and the outsiders
but even if they don’t care about the info from an info role, they still learn which character it was that died which is better than nothing
Wolf, Devil’s Thorn, and Corvid are info roles that could potentially be helpful as well
sturdy linden
Would be interesting to see how the direction stuff works
gusty void
yeah im curious on how much of an impact Moonlight actually has
sturdy linden
Have you run this yet
gusty void
nah
i will in a week or so though
in the meantime i have to reword some abilities 🥲
Devil's Thorn: Each night, you learn 2 characters: 1 character is farther in a fixed direction from you than 1 from last night. You learn when you complete a full Grimoire rotation.
this is too wordy ...
also a problem has been spotted
when the Opiu'm makes the Corpsefly the good Minion, there are a couple of ways the Corpsefly can stumble upon the truth when using the ability of a good dead player
my go-to solution is to adjust the Opiu'm such that the good Minion can be poisoned at any time (thus explaining the fabricated starting info without having to specify it)
**Opiu'm: *Each night, choose a player: they die. Evils start knowing what the good Minion knows, who might be poisoned at any time. You get 4 bluffs. [+1 secretly good Minion]
166 :(
sturdy linden
All "you think you are" characters can already get false info
gusty void
unfortunately this isn't a "you think you are" character
it creates someone else whose only change is their alignment
sturdy linden
Why does it have 4 bluffs?
gusty void
to give their good minion a bluff
oh but i guess.
i guess that depends on player counts huh
gusty void
**Opiu'm: *Each night, choose a player: they die. Evil players start knowing all that the good Minion knows, who might be poisoned at any time. [+1 secretly good Minion]
perhaps temporary change to prevent awful Corpsefly - Opiu'm interaction with certain info townsfolk
sturdy linden
This role does make all Minions in non-Opium games question themselves
gusty void
it does
sturdy linden
When do they find out, if ever
gusty void
when the game ends
sturdy linden
I dont know how fun it would be for the good minion, because they cant risk outing, but if they play for evil they just lose
gusty void
yeah i am curious to see how that goes
my hope is that socially the signs will all be there
i sort of compare it to an Atheist game in my mind
where the vibes of the ppl you talk to are just off in a way that makes sense if no one is evil
whereas in here the good Minion should be able to pick something off of the vibes whenever they speak to a fellow evil player
if it becomes unfun ill try to change it tho
gusty void
red hollow
# Almanac -- Corvid
not sure if targeted is official syntax
“chosen by an evil character” might be more apt
gusty void
chosen was my original wording but after thinking on what it can or cannot detect targeted felt more apt
gusty void
not sure if targeted is official syntax
“chosen by an evil character” might be m...
question: what do you define as "safe from evil"
is a player safe from evil if evil abilities are unable to affect them, or is a player safe from evil if evil abilities don't affect them?
red hollow
question: what do you define as "safe from evil"
safe is pretty loosely defined as unable to be harmed from an ability
if i read safe from evil i would assume that’s what it does
gusty void
gotcha so that's not an option
red hollow
is a player safe from evil if evil abilities are unable to affect them, or is a ...
the latter
red hollow
you just contradicted yourself
how come?
gusty void
the latter was meant to be phrased as "evil abilities aren't affecting them"
like they have the potential to affect them
but they arent
bc they're just chilling not bc they have immunity
red hollow
oh i see what you mean yeah the wording confused me a bit
gusty void
there was something that Coda suggested but i think it needs to be refined a bit
red hollow
safe from evil = if chosen or otherwise affected negatively by an evil ability, nothing happens
gusty void
im not sure how i would reword this ability to be more in line with the official lexicon
red hollow
i mean, you’re making your own full homebrew script. i think you’re allowed to create your own precedents
but that’s a bit of an unpopular opinion
gusty void
the issue is that i cant find a better option
until i do i dont feel inclined to move from what i have
"chosen" is in violation of certain abilities like a Minion who passively makes an arbitrary Outsider register falsely
"affected" is in violation of protection roles (that was my og wording)
raven hinge
i wonder if the sunlight/moonlight effect is a bit too irrelevant
gusty void
moonlight is sort of the centerpiece of this script so im not possibly giving up on it until after playtesting
gusty void
is not a lot
yeah :( i wanted it to be more but its a bit hard to make abilities that force the ST to still pick a direction, especially for TF where they have to be able to get decent info without knowing the direction but their info gets elevated from knowing it
raven hinge
I'm counting 4 tfs and 2 outsiders
raven hinge
while among the 2 outsiders 1 basically never triggers
gusty void
the new version of the script has little moon text symbols next to the abilities that Moonlight affects :)
gusty void
yepyep
raven hinge
cool
gusty void
whenever 1 neighbor is chosen that's ST choosing direction
gusty void
I'm counting 4 tfs and 2 outsiders
do you think 9 characters is enough to justify moonlight's existence?
i was a bit worried abt the numbers on that
raven hinge
well idk
bc the idea is it's only effective when at least 2 are in consideration
for obvious reasons
gusty void
mhm
raven hinge
and in low player counts this can be weird
cuz only 1 of the 2 minions exist
1 of the 3 outsiders doesn't actually trigger
gusty void
Wapiti?
gusty void
LMAO yeah
raven hinge
in the forseeable future
but the point is
the relevant townsfolks or outsiders
might just not be in play and also not bluffed
in small counts
gusty void
its not a scriptbreaking issue but its awkward yeah
ill have to playtest that one tos ee
raven hinge
"guys i'm a moonlight so at least 2 of these exist" is not great
gusty void
mhm
raven hinge
this is just what happens when good abilities target specific other good characters
if the targets are smh not in play or bluffed
then it's sad
gusty void
do you think i could add something that the Moonlight learns on the final night that could compensate for that?
if the Moonlight learned semi-important info aside from their direction on the final night of the game
raven hinge
nah
it's gonna die before final night cuz it doesn't have mayor clause
so just let it be
gusty void
sounds good
gusty void
i think you have a point
but im not too worried bc like you said its a bag issue
worst case scenario aint that bad imo
gusty void
hmm im seeing a problem with Flittermouse
not in the character itself but in how it reacts with Opiu'm because a lot of the snags in this script come down to Opiu'm
in a 1 minion game, any evil character the Flittermouse learns is a contradiction to the good Minion; in a 2 minion game, only 1 evil character is safe for the Flittermouse to learn for the good Minion, etc.
gusty void
considering there was a diff problem with Opiu'm earlier today im definitely going to have to rework the character ... eventually
sturdy linden
What are you changing it to
gusty void
haven't decided yet
gusty void
gusty void
realized a bad interaction with ginseng & raccoon
ginseng should be allowed to stop ppl from being drunk/poisoned except in cases where Townsfolk self-droison for balancing, in this case Raccoon and Worker Bee
raven hinge
I have a bad feeling abt fox and opium
cuz fox can self choose to check if they're good
if they're an evil fox, they need to re choose so nothing bad
if they're a good fox they kill themselves then out the whole evil team
gusty void
that's a good point
this could be fixed with a (not yourself) clause but since im probably changing Opiu'm anyway ill hold off on that
raven hinge
yeah that's what happens when you have choosing "good players" as the legal option
cuz it means it has illegal options, but they don't know who
like extra evil from wapiti
gusty void
funnily enough i added "good players" to counteract Opiu'm
raven hinge
that's too much
gusty void
i didnt want a good Fox to have the option to immediately kill their demon, they'd have to appeal to the town to get them executed instead
raven hinge
having evil characters that are illegal to choose evil players is like
it works best in scripts where evil fully know each other
in any case that some evils don't know each other, it goes bad
cuz they'd learn choose again on a player they didn't know to be evil
raven hinge
i didnt want a good Fox to have the option to immediately kill their demon, they...
i think you can go like
choose a player and a good character
raven hinge
good fox still kills itself on the 1 evil they don't learn
gusty void
mhm
it feels like 80% of the issues ive run to is just Opiu'm so
ill eventually try to rehaul that character but probably only after i dive into all the townsfolk
gusty void
Updated Ginseng:
Each night, you may choose a player (not yourself): they are safe from all Demon, Minion, & Outsider abilities tonight. A chosen evil player learns your identity.
that way it doesn't reverse the self-droisoning of Raccoon & Worker Bee
i guess this interacts weirdly with certain niche outsiders but
iiim not sure how much i care about that
sturdy linden
Updated Ginseng:
> Each night, you may choose a player (not yourself): they are...
Each night, you may choose a player (not yourself): they are safe from other players' abilities tonight. A chosen evil player learns your identity
Why is this 'may' by the way
gusty void
well if the ginseng picks an evil player they're screwed
so i feel like they should have the option to abstain
gusty void
> Each night, you may choose a player (not yourself): they are safe from other p...
this also makes them safe from Townsfolk info roles
or just all townsfolk in general idk how to feel abt it
gusty void
i wouldnt mind if a ginseng choice blocked a mantis kill
but im not sure if "safe" extends to preventing info-gathering Townsfolk from learning anything when picking you
sturdy linden
safe is subjective but it usually just means death, drunkunness/poisoning
not info
gusty void
hmm
then let's do that!
Each night, you may choose a player (not yourself): they are safe from other players' abilities tonight. A chosen evil player learns you are the Ginseng.
sturdy linden
... learns who you are" also works i think
gusty void
maybe? this just feels clearer to me
sturdy linden
*role exor
modern oakBOT
*role exor
gusty void
fair enough
sturdy linden
Is vulture a one time thing
gusty void
wdym
sturdy linden
When does it wake
sturdy linden
No i mean when does the ability trigger
gusty void
the night both neighbors are dead
sturdy linden
Maybe rephrase to “When both your neighbors are dead, wake to learn their characters”
gusty void
hmm good shout
sterile sphinx
My first attempt at a full homebrew (with much help from people in this server)!...
I may be biased but I really like Wolf!
dunno if someone else brought this up but "affected by" isn't official terminology. I was personally discouraged to use that for abilities when I was coming up with homebrew abilities
I'm kinda confused about how this works. What directions are we talking about? North, East, South, West? Clockwise and counterclockwise?
And a good player closest to you in a certain direction, say West, might randomly die?
gusty void
I may be biased but I really like Wolf!
thank you!
little orioleBOT
Gave +1 Thanks to @sterile sphinx (current: #2257 - 3)
gusty void
dunno if someone else brought this up but "affected by" isn't official terminolo...
yeah that was brought up for me too, my new wording for Corvid still isn’t official terminology but I feel it suits the character the best (instead of affected, it’s targeted)
gusty void
I'm kinda confused about how this works. What directions are we talking about? N...
basically every time a direction shows up (which is a decent amount, as it’s the script’s gimmick) it means clockwise or anti-clockwise
the “closer to you in a direction” shows up a couple times which is slightly awkward wording but simply can’t be improved upon while retaining its purpose for the sake of this gimmick
sterile sphinx
yeah that was brought up for me too, my new wording for Corvid still isn’t offic...
That's a good word!
sterile sphinx
basically every time a direction shows up (which is a decent amount, as it’s the...
thanks for clarifying!
little orioleBOT
Gave +1 Thanks to @gusty void (current: #1815 - 6)
gusty void
no problem
gusty void
sterile sphinx
I really like this one!
Oh it doesn't force sober and healthiness anymore? Or is that just implied?
sterile sphinx
Oh yeahhhh
raven hinge
and that's intented to not be blocked
gusty void
yeppers
sterile sphinx
I think the fact that chosen evil players learn who the Ginseng is is such a good downside!!!
It makes me want to refine my own character LMAO
sterile sphinx
Well mine was just "Choose a player, they are sober and healthy" ala Barista
sterile sphinx
True, but this inspired me to want to add more "spice" to mine.
I don't wanna just copy your ability though so maybe I'll leave it as is
gusty void
i personally wouldn't mind but i get that
sterile sphinx
Also I'm curious, does it make them safe from info abilities?
sterile sphinx
i personally wouldn't mind but i get that
Oh really? :o I'll think about it then!
gusty void
Also I'm curious, does it make them safe from info abilities?
it does not
since info doesn't harm a player, they can't be made "safe" from it
sterile sphinx
i figured, but just wanted to make sure!
gusty void
yeah it was something i wasnt sure about either when making it
gusty void
yall idk which one is clearer
A: Each night, learn 2 characters: 1 is the neighbor in a fixed direction of the other's character type.
B: Each night, learn 2 characters: 1 is the same character type as the other’s neighbor in a fixed direction.
trail otter
This is really convoluted regardless tbh
sturdy linden
Is this for devil thorn
gusty void
it’s for devil’s thorn yeah
I’m a bit conflicted on this ability
I think this one is reasonably powerful but it’s not quite what I want from the character
gusty void
Each night, you learn the character type of a neighbor in a fixed direction of the player you learned about last night, originating from an evil player.
basically this version but you get real info starting n1 and it can start from any evil player, not just the demon
gusty void
red hollow
# Almanac -- Worker & Queen Bee
i would honestly rather see worker bee get o-mod instead of adding a worker bee. why does it even add another copy of itself?
also queen bee seems like empath on steroids to me
sturdy linden
Is this a rewording of an existing character? Or new
gusty void
Is this a rewording of an existing character? Or new
it’s a rewording of N0ll’s idea for this character
gusty void
i would honestly rather see worker bee get o-mod instead of adding a worker bee....
it adds another copy of itself bc if all the adding of worker bees lied in the queen bee, it would make both bee roles much harder for evil to bluff
with this version of setup there 0-2 worker bees without a queen and 1-3 with a queen, which gives evil room to bluff
if worker bee couldn’t add itself an evil couldn’t bluff worker bee without a second evil bluffing queen (and vice versa)
gusty void
also queen bee seems like empath on steroids to me
empath on steroids but you need the cooperation of other people to know where your info is pointing
sturdy linden
it’s a rewording of N0ll’s idea for this character
For devils thorn?
gusty void
yep
sturdy linden
I liked the original idea of going around the circle in a fixed direction
gusty void
it's still sort of that!
but some feedback i got on the original version was that the directionality aspect of it was too weak
and i agree
with this version you actually want to be thinking about the direction and placement of what you learn to trace evil players
sturdy linden
but some feedback i got on the original version was that the directionality aspe...
What if they simply know the direction at the start.
gusty void
that robs this script of its gimmick
although i agree that would be a better ability in a vacuum
sturdy linden
I dont see it as that weak in the original state, because you do learn “each night one of two characters is in play”
gusty void
i agree, but that strong info is completely independent of direction
it becomes an ability where you might focus a little bit on the direction but you get very solid info if you ignore it or give up on solving it, i.e. encouraging the player to not bother with the gimmick
gusty void
A: Each night, learn 2 characters: 1 is the neighbor in a fixed direction of the...
that was my problem with this version too, this gives solid info but the direction is an afterthought to the player
thanks to elfscape, a new ability text makes this clearer
Each night, learn a character type 1 step further in a fixed direction from a specific evil player.
gusty void
gusty void
sturdy linden
# Almanac -- Devil's Thorn
So this learns something like "townsfolk outsider townsfolk townsfolk demon"
Each night
One per night ^
gusty void
yep!
sturdy linden
Can you post the latest version of the script
gusty void
sure thing
a lot of the images are gone though bc im adding the images back as im remaking the almanac
Opiu'm is the only character i know im changing
gusty void
gusty void
gusty void
gusty void
thinking about Moonlight
Moonlight is only a benefit to the good team to be in play when at minimum 2 other characters are affected by it
but in lower player counts that's not always the case
i think i need more characters who are affected by the direction gimmick, specifically more evil characters
since the problem is that certain good claims can get meta-confirmed in small player counts by there being a Moonlight in play
i think ill be taking Palsonny's advice and moving it to the demons
im going to try and adjust some demon abilities such that exactly 2 are affected by Moonlight
(probably Rootstalk and Mycotaa)
gusty void
well 2 minions are already affected by it so idt I’ll add another
raven hinge
# Almanac -- Vulture
the tea lady gambit
i like how they have totally different ability yet plays out similarly
tea lady can try to murder their neighbors but might get killed after 1 survives exe
vulture can try to murder their neighbors but get killed after 1 neighbor is exed
tea lady can also try to block kills
and vulture also want demon to kill its neighbors
gusty void
the tea lady gambit
ooh I hadn’t formed the connection there but yes!
gusty void
Mycotaa with direction:
Each night*, choose a player: they die. For each removed or dead Outsider, you register falsely to the next alive Townsfolk from you in a known, fixed direction.
Rootstalk with direction:
Each night*, choose a player: they die, & your poison moves by 1 Townsfolk in a known, fixed direction. Your farthest Townsfolk starts poisoned (you know who).
145 and 153 respectively which is better than I thought
curious what people think on the balancing of this, I think Rootstalk is fine (though the wording could be improved?) but I'm slightly worried that Mycotaa becomes too strong by being able to tell which players it is misregistering to
sturdy linden
Mycotaa with direction:
Each night\*, choose a player: they die. For each remove...
where does mycota start from? is it arbitrary
does known mean the demon knows?
gusty void
known means the demon knows which direction
unlike rootstalk the misregistration doesn’t start from anywhere, it instead appears once an outsider is gone
sturdy linden
what tf gets the misreg
gusty void
the next alive townsfolk in a direction from the Mycotaa
i can edit it to make that clear
gusty void
ugh its annoying to incorporate this gimmick into demons bc both the killing and the gimmick eat a lot into character limits
sturdy linden
Did you change opium yet
gusty void
not yet
sturdy linden
Also how did you get bold on the setup modification characters. It doesnt for mine
sturdy linden
Is it from kb or ravenswoodstudio
gusty void
the json is from klutzbana and is put into ravenswood
gusty void
im realizing that the directionality portion of Nightshade is not useful to the character on its own
its only useful if there's a Moonlight in play
so ill remove Nightshade's directionality in their ability
4 townsfolk 2 outsiders 2 minions 2 demons seems more balanced regardless
gusty void
gusty void
pondering on how i might change Opiu'm since im not really confident in the original idea i had on the character, and then i remembered that each of the other demons was designed to complement a specific minion
Thörn complements Fox by being evil explanations for additional night deaths, Mycotaa complements Ambersap by messing with outsider count (& Ambersap's outsider framing both helps Mycotaa squeeze into an outsider bluff and benefits the Mycotaa if the Ambersap's framed outsider gets executed), while Corpsefly complements Rootstalk by being evil explanations for poisoning
but my original idea for Opiu'm only had a loose connection with Wildfire and maybe I should instead change Opiu'm to be a demon more focused on nominations/voting
i might have to also change the name of the demon but that's probably fine
i also swear there was a homebrew demon i saw recently on here that i cant find rn called Puppeteer whose ability read similar to "executions fail if evil nominated good, but you have an extra minion" which i feel rather inspired by atm bc it takes the +1 minion energy and puts a downside in the nominations/voting phase which is what i want to do as well
sturdy linden
Maybe something to make wildfire stronger
gusty void
this is my current idea
It’s supported by wildfire bc both evil and good has reasons to be hesitant with voting
I’m not sure if this downside is too strong or weak though
it gets tougher to hide the later in the game it is, but the +1 Minion nerfs the downside on its own
sturdy linden
Is there any way to survive execution otherwise in this script
And is there a way for another evil on top of the +1
gusty void
there is a way to create a second evil which i will think about. later.
but there's no other execution survival which is what i want
im just worried that this isn't enough of a downside for an extra minion
sturdy linden
If its just the demon alive they can't risk voting
What about an evil townsfolk that knows the demon
gusty void
If its just the demon alive they can't risk voting
that's fine bc its on them for losing all of their minions
they got an extra one so they dont have a big excuse
sturdy linden
I think the biggest imbalance comes from another minion ability
gusty void
wildfire? or someone else
sturdy linden
I mean just having plus one minion ability in the game
gusty void
oh gotcha
yeah its a pretty big boon and im not sure if this is enough of a downside
tbf the evil team is never supposed to trigger this condition, but their flaky voting patterns especially late game are supposed to hint at it
sturdy linden
What about an evil townsfolk that knows the demon
What about this
gusty void
hmm that's not bad
actually that fits pretty well with my theming
*role bounty hunter
modern oakBOT
*role bounty hunter
gusty void
Each night*, choose a player: they die. Good nominees survive execution if all alive evil players voted. You know the evil Townsfolk. [1 Townsfolk is evil]
155 :(
honestly should the demon just not know it
gusty void
might just keep it at
Each night*, choose a player: they die. Good executions fail if all alive evil players voted. [+1 Minion]
since its a harsher downside but Wildfire discourages experimentation / test votes
sturdy linden
What's the big difference between surviving and failing
gusty void
i dont like how its worded bc it does in fact sound the same
but "executions fail" is how legion executions fail
i.e. if it's enough votes to mark that player for death, but the fail condition was met, the storyteller announces it has failed
and further nominations can still occur
which is considerably harsher for evil bc town can run tests w/o 100% committing to an execution, and then nominate and execute someone who sets the fail condition off if it happens
however the hope is that wildfire being on the script mitigates those issues, and makes testing more cautious or even backfire
sturdy linden
I run legion where I dont announce "zero votes"
So that's why both seem the same to me
gusty void
i see
i think thats how im going to run this demon
but now im thinking of how to change Wapiti, which is the other evil conversion role
im honestly considering keeping it as evil conversion but changing the metrics of it
gusty void
Wapiti (Outsider):
If you die at night, you learn how many steps the evil Townsfolk is in a direction from the Demon. [1 Townsfolk is evil]
going to settle on this as the new wapiti
all roles seem set in stone except for the demons
I still ideally want 2 demons to be tied into the direction gimmick but that feels hard right now so I will just think on it
honestly the only demon I feel comfortable with right now is Thoern
gusty void
Directional Rootstalk (Improved):
Each night*, choose a player: they die, & your poison moves 1 Townsfolk in a known direction from you, starting at your neighbor.
gusty void
Improved Thoern text:
Each night*, choose a player: they die. You learn whoever chooses an evil player & they might die at any time.
now between Opiu’m and Mycotaa I need to rework the former and add directionality to one of them
and Opiu’m has to do with noms/voting
sturdy linden
Directional Rootstalk (Improved):
> Each night*, choose a player: they die, & y...
No longer starting at the farthest?
gusty void
nah
it doesn’t matter too much whether it starts at farthest or closest honestly the tracing is still direct
neighbor just is nicer for character length
gusty void
if I can find a version of this that works while being relatively simple & under the character limit then I’m set
this is my last obstacle before this script is complete (or at the very least robust enough for playtesting)
sturdy linden
If all alive evil nominated today, the demon may swap with a minion tonight
Or if all alive evil voted for a townsfolk neighbor
gusty void
Or if all alive evil voted for a townsfolk neighbor
this is actually pretty close to the current version im toying with!
which is the demon knows 1 of their townsfolk neighbors and can do the swap if they were nominated today
sturdy linden
What's the ability tezt
gusty void
(Demon):
Each night*, choose a player: they die. If you choose a Minion the night your known Townsfolk neighbor is nominated, swap characters instead.
the most recent version
ive gone through a shitton of iterations
sturdy linden
The new demon also learns a townsfolk?
gusty void
the new demon would learn a new neighbor yes
however depending on when this happens in the game, the Storyteller can make it a dead player
which makes it practically impossible to make the ability go off again
sturdy linden
Why not make it direct neighbor
gusty void
mainly bc it makes the ability swingy based on character type of that neighbor
also by locking it into a townsfolk, there's a give & take where by allowing yourself the opportunity to "starpass" you have to keep a specific sober and healthy townsfolk alive
sturdy linden
I only say because its easier for the good team to track a nom on a direct neighbor
No deaths might be enough
Also does a queen bee added worker bee add worker bees from its own setup mod
gusty void
No deaths might be enough
yeah i agree i think im ditching the nomination/voting aspect entirely
gusty void
Also does a queen bee added worker bee add worker bees from its own setup mod
it can yeah
basically there can be 0-2 worker bees without a queen, or 1-3 worker bees with a queen
sturdy linden
yeah i agree i think im ditching the nomination/voting aspect entirely
Oh what is it now
gusty void
Oh what is it now
Each night*, choose a player: they die. If you choose a Minion while your known Townsfolk neighbor lives, swap characters instead.
gusty void
here's the full updated version, i dont expect to have any ability changes (other than maybe wording tweaks) until after playtesting
twin sinew
here is updated script using cool website
Which website?
gusty void
ravenswoodstudios
ive had a weird problem with it regarding the flowery pattern on the left but otherwise it is as fancy as you can see
gusty void
noticed a slightly concerning interaction where a Flittermouse can learn the character of the evil Townsfolk, which can be used to expose them and make the Wapiti's info more usable
not sure if this is actually a bad thing though so i wont change it for now, since it can both be bluffed and a Townsfolk character can be given to a droisoned Flittermouse
sturdy linden
St can just not give that neighbor
gusty void
most of the time yes
but sometimes moonlight can force it
still i think its a rather niche scenario and can be bluffed/given as false info very effectively
so its probably fine
gusty void
decided Corvid should choose 2 players per night instead of 1
sturdy linden
I like this change
Why does queen bee need redirected kills? It seems powerful as is
gusty void
it's to increase the chances of worker bees dying before the queen bee, which gives the queen more info
im not against removing it tho, the character length of the queen's ability is rather long
sturdy linden
Dont you want more alive tho
gusty void
the queen bee has 3 ways of getting info
well ig 4
the idea was that a worker bee who dies while neighboring an evil player will be reflected in the queen's info changing
which isolates where the evil player is and confirms that dead worker
but admittedly they're probably more powerful alive
do you think it would be better to remove the Mayor clause from Queen Bee?
sturdy linden
It cam be very confirming for the QB to confirm who are actually WBs
gusty void
it wouldn’t be hard confirmation bc of misinfo/droisoning
sturdy linden
I think its strong enough without the redirected kills
Volk could also be a directional character
gusty void
I think its strong enough without the redirected kills
I’ll probably remove it then, esp since it’ll put it under the recommended char limit
gusty void
Volk could also be a directional character
maybe! But I think it’s fun to have a couple of characters who interact loosely with the theme without being directly entrenched in it
sturdy linden
Its already strong with mechanical confirmation of the known character
gusty void
more than that, the Volk who learns a good character n1 finds out too easily which direction their info is in
which makes the Moonlight puzzle trivial
sturdy linden
The waking up when they died seems strong since its mechanical
Maybe only have it once per game instead of repeating
gusty void
if its once per game, the Volk who learns anything but a Demon is just a worse Washerwoman/Librarian/Investigator
and the Volk should almost never learn the demon n1 for obvious reasons lol
i do agree that the mechanical aspect of it is rather strong confirmation
sturdy linden
They could just wake up and learn that the 1st character died and not learn a 2nd
sturdy linden
Another idea is change honey badgers to nominations and add a mutant condition
Helps hide outsiders
Also current honey badgers is a lot to keep track of
gusty void
Also current honey badgers is a lot to keep track of
i dont think so? the storyteller just has to be locked in when the honey badger is nominated
and good players can remember if they voted for a specific player bc the honey badger will likely be claiming while nominated
sturdy linden
Mainly because it can lead to people knowing theyre drunk which is awkward
Assuming the HB is real and claiming
gusty void
eh
drunk ppl can get true info
and almost every townsfolk is an info role
i dont think there are any mechanical roles here who can reliably test if they're drunk
mantis might be the only contender that comes close
sturdy linden
Wildfire only cares about a single nomination right? Not the whole game
gusty void
yes
sturdy linden
Still think it's a little weak, in a 12 player game you need 9 votes which is rare and would only occur on day 1
Oh its alive nevermind
sturdy linden
What if wildfire instead had to do with spending dead votes
If a vote token isnt spent each day good losss
Maybe not this extreme but like this
gusty void
I’m sure something can be worked with that but I want to try and keep my base ability unless playtesting convinces me otherwise
twin sinew
What if wildfire instead had to do with spending dead votes
That's generally not going to be all that fun for the players spending their dead votes early
latent knot
What if wildfire were something like
"Each night, pick a good player. If at least 3 players that you have chosen vote for a good nominee and that nominee is executed, evil wins."
gusty void
What if wildfire were something like
"Each night, pick a good player. If at lea...
ooh something along these lines would be interesting, it doesn’t take from the main idea but makes it scarier
I still think I’ll start by not changing this role much but depending on testing I could def pivot in this direction
or maybe test diff versions of this role to see how it goes
twin sinew
What if wildfire were something like
"Each night, pick a good player. If at lea...
this does nothing in a small game.
sturdy linden
Looking at poisoning/misreg
TF: Racoon (self)
Outsider: Honeysuckle, Honey Badger
Minions: Corpsefly, Ambersap
Demons: Mycota, Rootstalk
Worried it could be too much
gusty void
Wapiti & Opiu’m act as softer forms of misinfo considering the demon can move and there’s an evil townsfolk
but given how powerful the townsfolk info is I’m not terribly worried
also, at least this was my intention, but each form of misinfo is deliberately very traceable
i.e. it only happens to specific ppl or under specific circumstances
sturdy linden
Ambersap misreg can quietly mess with a lot of abilities
If its both character and alignment that is
gusty void
it can yeah
that’s why it’s only on one Outsider
hmm though that reminds me
I might adjust the wording of Ambersap to be like Recluse
bc I want Corvid to be able to detect the sapped player normally
sturdy linden
With the directional characters it makes things hard
Its not like fortune tellers where they directly choose the recluse
gusty void
i wouldnt say it makes things hard
but maybe running a game will give me more insight 
sturdy linden
Its similar to artist questions and savant info with a recluse in play, just be careful as a storyteller
gusty void
imo for characters like Devil's Thorn and Sequoia the storyteller should register the sapped player falsely
those directional characters might not even pass over them so when they do it feels appropriate to misregister in that moment
sturdy linden
It can also appear as a worker bee/evil to the queen bee
Maybe just make it register as evil and as a minion or demon
gusty void
yeah I made that change
gusty void
It can also appear as a worker bee/evil to the queen bee
registering as an additional worker bee is insane lowkey, I forgot it could do that
gusty void
im gonna playtest it with my own group on saturday
rn im just focused on polishing the almanac
gusty void
thinking about a couple of interactions here
a Corvid can check for a Corpsefly by checking both dead players who died in the past die, and a Yes is a strong sign of Corpsefly while a No is a near certainty that there isn’t one
meanwhile there’s a small paradox regarding Ginseng and Corpsefly in the night order
the Corpsefly needs to go before the Ginseng because it should be able to use the Ginseng’s ability if they choose them
but the Ginseng needs to go before the Corpsefly because the Ginseng should be able to block its targets from Corpsefly poisoning
this has absolutely zero effect on how this script actually runs so long as the ST knows the purpose of each role but looking at things from a purely technical perspective it’s a contradiction
list of what the Corvid can detect:
sturdy linden
a Corvid can check for a Corpsefly by checking both dead players who died in the...
make corpsefly a 'may'
poisoner goes before monk so corpsefly before ginseng
gusty void
I did put Corpsefly beforehand bc it made more sense but
the monk analogy doesn’t quite work bc monk doesn’t block poisoner
gusty void
make corpsefly a 'may'
poisoner goes before monk so corpsefly before ginseng
the Corpsefly should never have a reason to not choose someone though
sturdy linden
what about '2 alive players'
gusty void
that ruins the theming of Corpsefly :(
also just makes them a poisoner, Corpsefly’s restrictions makes it’s poisoning more traceable than Poisoner
sturdy linden
corvid
gusty void
I could just have Corvid pick alive players tbh
sturdy linden
not corpsefly
gusty void
Oh
then we reached the same conclusion lmao
Yeah I think that’d work
It doesn’t make too much sense to restrict it to alive for this role outside of this script but. I think it does the job here
sturdy linden
they just have to get reprompted if they pick a demon killed player
also picking a demon killed player is useless for info anyway
gusty void
true
although hm doing this does take away from part of the Corvids power
which is detecting if deaths were caused by good or evil
Maybe just “choose 2 players who were alive at dusk” would be fine
I don’t mind that
gusty void
alright. first playtest games out of the way
lets fill this channel with notes
two games were played, good won in final 3 in the first one while evil won in final 4 in the second one
some general notes on the games
putting this here bc i rly enjoyed this feedback
also sequoia should be skipping travelers and i forgot to add that to the ability
SPEAKING of which
in the second game we had a traveler which was good bc it tests a few roles in here, we realized that Fox could kill the Traveller at any time and while I forbade it for that game, Fox killing a Traveller is super possible in general
but im not sure if i should have a not Travellers clause for Fox or not
or maybe Fox just needs a change in general
also Moonlight was in the second game! my hope was that people could use Moonlight to solve the Rootstalk direction using Devil's Thorn and Sequoia
unfortunately the Rootstalk poisoning absolutely decimated both roles instead and im not sure that the good team would have been able to use Moonlight to solve the game even if they remembered Rootstalk was in play
i need to tinker more with it but im worried that even with 10 roles that Moonlight affects, Moonlight needs a large game to be used as a genuine piece of the puzzle
admittedly Wildfire sort of feels like a Fearmonger but has a curve of danger with game progression
which when i put it like that i dont mind it
trail otter
I think fox killing travelers is fine and good
Wildfire could work even if dead I think
Every townsfolk being a strong kill because every townsfolk gets strong info late, combined with fox which can kill them if they're skilled enough, is VERY SnV. Lean into that ::D
This script is only somewhat adjacent to SnV ofc, but I do think there's merit in highlighting those sides of it, while still making sure they mesh with the rest of the script
Translation: I don't think you should change Fox
One thing I will say is that you have droison sources in 3 character types. In a 9p rootstalk corpsefly honey badger honeysuckle game, you can easily have no sober townsfolk on night 2
You don't even need all 4 of those tbh, cut an outsider and it's still super plausible
What is corpsefly's purpose here
gusty void
Wildfire could work even if dead I think
this is a good call I think I’ll do this
gusty void
What is corpsefly's purpose here
basically an alternate poisoner but more traceable
trail otter
You have that, it's called rootstalk
gusty void
however I’m not opposed to altering the method bc Corpsefly stealing abilities from the dead doesn’t do much on an info script
there’s only like 1 townsfolk Corpsefly benefits from using
trail otter
Mantis?
gusty void
You have that, it's called rootstalk
This is true but I still think Corpsefly should do poisoning of some kind
trail otter
Why
gusty void
townsfolk info is strong enough that I want misinfo to come from all 3 character types
trail otter
I disagree that this is ever necessary
gusty void
just like how there are extra sources of night death in all character types
trail otter
SnV's town is busted and misinfo is sparse, all things considered
gusty void
SnV's town is busted and misinfo is sparse, all things considered
Vortox carries misinfo on that script and I don’t plan to have anything that influential so I’m not sure that’s a fair comparison
trail otter
just like how there are extra sources of night death in all character types
Well you see, these synergize. Dead players are not sober townsfolk, poisoned players are not sober townsfolk. If you don't have sober townsfolk, you're getting dangerously close to mafia
(also if you only have 1 sober townsfolk. 2 is pushing it)
gusty void
i see your point there but I think that as long as each source of droisoning is contained it’s solvable and fine
honeysuckle and honey badger are both very contained
trail otter
Wdym contained
gusty void
easy to rule out or solve for
trail otter
Sure
gusty void
honeysuckle can only affect 1 townsfolk neighbor
honey badger only affects ppl who vote for them for that night
trail otter
I would argue that corpsefly is not contained lol
gusty void
Rootstalk is less contained but it’s a demon. So that’s fine
trail otter
Rootstalk is solvable
If you find the poison, you find the demon, much like no dashii
gusty void
Corpsefly is somewhat contained bc it latches onto the recently dead, but I’m totally fine to lock it down further
gusty void
If you find the poison, you find the demon, much like no dashii
yes exactly
but my general point is
if each source of droisoning is robustly attached to a possibility
4 sources of droisoning is less worrisome than one would think
trail otter
Well
gusty void
also I’m admittedly not sure what kind of ability this minion would benefit from otherwise
trail otter
Yes, but I think you need to do that far more than what you're already doing
gusty void
wdym
trail otter
Honey badger drunkenness means so relatively little
Corpsefly poison should prob point directly to the demon
The player seated across from the demon maybe?
You can still do the moonlight thing to break distance ties
twin sinew
SnV's town is busted and misinfo is sparse, all things considered
But is also quite good sided (in my experience)
sturdy linden
If fox was so damaging maybe make it once per game?
Moonlight could do with “even if poisoned”
Maybe have raccoon be sober even if its equidistant
Wildfire does need a significant buff to be damaging here
sturdy linden
I wonder how many kills it actually got in their olaytests
twin sinew
the danger of the fox is the worry that it's in-play
that it will do a lot
from the sounds of it i doubt it actually got many kills if any
just that essensially everyone lied because they were worried
sturdy linden
I guess the meta is mostly lie until confirmed not fox
How was drunk and poisoning?
Too much or was it ok?
How quickly did good solve which evils are in play
gusty void
from the sounds of it i doubt it actually got many kills if any
the one game it was in it killed itself bc it confused worker bee and queen bee
but im hoping to run it again to see it potentially do more
gusty void
How quickly did good solve which evils are in play
all evils are pretty quiet so people were actually rather unsure until the very end in both games
admittedly in the first game i told the drunk Volk that there was a Fox in-play which increased tensions
gusty void
If fox was so damaging maybe make it once per game?
Moonlight could do with “eve...
The Wildfire buff will be “even if dead” like Hystrex said
good shout for Moonlight might do that, an “even if dead” could also work for that to give it more power
Raccoon jsut knows one random persons alignment so idt that’s a good idea
gusty void
thinking of ways to adjust raccoon and i think it would be interesting if the raccoon learned specifically false information on the opposite side of the circle
gusty void
Each night, choose an alive player: you learn their alignment. If your choice is farther from you in a fixed direction, you learn false info (equidistant is arbitrary).
ignore the abysmal character count :(
latent knot
Hey, as long as you aren't reaching Face Your Fears character counts, I think you're fine
gusty void
lol ty
sturdy linden
> Each night, choose an alive player: you learn their alignment. If your choice ...
Why only alive
gusty void
it might be too easy to solve your info by checking the dead
sturdy linden
Maybe make equidistant also false and change the text to “if your choice is not closer to you..”
purely to reduce text length
gusty void
if equidistant is false this character always knows the alignment of 1 player
which imo isnt balanced
sturdy linden
Also making moonlight “even if poisoned” might help
sturdy linden
Most abilities poison living though
gusty void
wdym
sturdy linden
Even if dead moonlight is permanently active basically
gusty void
yeah
which i think is interesting and makes things more solvable
it does what the role was designed to do and ensure that all roles affected by it can be connected, both setup and late-game roles
poisoning on this script usually doesnt last for more than 1 night
sturdy linden
“Even if poisoned” would make a clear start and finish, and could also make them hide longer
Depends what dynamic you want
gusty void
i think id rather have poisoning temporarily disrupt and them have to solve for it
sturdy linden
Whats the idea for wildfire
Because it does seem its too weak to cause any paranoia
gusty void
I’m going to run it with the “even if dead” clause and see if that makes it more likely to set off / force good players to be more careful
sturdy linden
How did you end up choosing directions in your playtest w/o a moonlight
Was it mostly neutral or ever weighted towards a team
gusty void
it was meant to be neutral
the direction should give the good team decent info and the evil team a decent ability
sturdy linden
#1460003697302962454
ok running this script in the scheduled games here
send an updated json if youc an
gusty void
oh hell yeah!
i havent updated the json from my last playtesting but this should still mostly be fine
sturdy linden
if you want to test any changes lmk
gusty void
ill ping you when i have an updated json
sturdy linden
Minion and demon info is in the middle of night 1 order, dont know if thats intentional
sturdy linden
also it would be fun to have evil icons for townsfolk
gusty void
the minion & demon info is messed up yeah idk how to fix it
sturdy linden
You can drag it up on klutzbanana night order page
sturdy linden
two games were played, good won in final 3 in the first one while evil won in fi...
What were the results of this btw
Who won and on what day
gusty void
both games went to final 3, so day 5 or 6, good won in the first screenshot and evil won in the second
sturdy linden
Oh its written there nevermind
Also any recommended base travelers
Barista might work well
And bone collector too
gusty void
bone collector seems fine
barista too
any of the basic voting/exe ones are also fine (Thief, Bureaucrat, Judge)
sterile sphinx
There should probably be a pinned post for the almanac/updated JSON
gusty void
hello I am reviving this
most recent run of this
this played almost like a game of Bad Moon Rising, where Vulture, Mantis, and Nightshade built confirmation chains off of their abilities
because of this the evil team was found out by day 3, but it was unknown which was the minion and which was the demon and evil won off of a 50 50
which honestly I think was fine
also we have a logo now
that being said I still need to replace Corpsefly
gusty void
i can pin something if im alerted to which message
when I’m satisfied with the script I’ll give something lol
sturdy linden
any updates on characters?
gusty void
i might make slight changes to Wildfire and Corvid, but other than Corpsefly i dont think so?
gusty void
I’m a tad curious
I’m having trouble creating a suitable Corpsefly replacement bc I’m legitimately unsure what sort of function a fourth minion should have on here
Fox creates night deaths and makes communication less transparent, Wildfire hinders good voting and provides an evil wincon, Ambersap enables Outsider bluffs and Outsider framing, what other evil function would this script benefit from?
and I’ve come around on not needing a minion that causes poisoning given the other causes of droisoning and misregistration
latent knot
I feel like a grimseer would be useful for this script
gusty void
I would agree if Fox wasn’t there
sadly any minions who can learn player’s characters amplify Fox too much
sturdy linden
Maybe just something loud or chaotic
Not necessarily outed evil
Character swapper or public declaree
twin sinew
Maybe something encouraging or discouraging noms or specific executions
gusty void
Hmmm thank you
gusty void
yapping to myself a bit here
I've more or less decided on a replacement for Corpsefly (thanks to Moll for helping refine my ideas and Hystrex for confirming it fits) but im also making some changes to other characters, none as extreme but some still significant
ive had the complaint that a Honeysuckle who correctly chooses their drunk ping becomes a quasi-Townsfolk through confirmation and now i want to fix that
though I still want the Honeysuckle to be able to feel like they can accomplish a goal
I think probably the easiest solution to this is to keep the ability about the same but the Honeysuckle doesn’t know when they guess right
gusty void
also I only recently realized there’s an awkward interaction with Sequoia where while the Sequoia doesn’t know who died the night they use their ability, they can technically keep checking every player until their ability activates
which feels awkward at best
twin sinew
also I only recently realized there’s an awkward interaction with Sequoia where ...
you could just add it as an almanac note
that the st tells the sequoia the dead player
players*
before they make their choice
sturdy linden
also I only recently realized there’s an awkward interaction with Sequoia where ...
Can't this happen with professor on bmr
gusty void
you could just add it as an almanac note
yeah good idea
or wait.
ill ask in the BMR channel
yeah okay no change necessary
sturdy linden
Can you post the script again for reference
gusty void
i will in a bit once ive finalized some changes
gusty void
but here is the mostly accurate version
gusty void
going to start with slapping this here, this is the script's current Corpsefly replacement, the Cicada! Otherwise known as insect 
thanks again to Moll and Hystrex for their help
sturdy linden
If 5 or more live & good wins today, continue play. Tonight, 1 of your alive neighbors die (& only them): evil wins at dusk.
i assume this is also directional
gusty void
it’s directional yeah
and it’s probably the most impactful application of Moonlight solving evil abilities
also that wording is great ty
gusty void
RAW I don’t think it does and I think that’s fine
if people think it might be a cicada day the ginseng can speak up
gusty void
I've also made the decision that Moonlight starts knowing their direction
You start knowing a direction: the Storyteller must choose that direction each time an ability requires they choose one, even during setup.
not sure if there would be fitting setup clause that would replace "even during setup"
twin sinew
> If 5 or more live & good wins today, continue play. Tonight, 1 of your alive n...
continue play is implied and not needed in the ability imo
gusty void
it is implied but i admittedly feel awkward having something not specifying something to that likeness
sturdy linden
continue play is implied and not needed in the ability imo
If 5 or more live & good wins today, tonight, 1 alive neighbor dies (& only them): evil wins at dusk.
gusty void
alright time to summarize all the recent changes that have been made:
Corpsefly -> Cicada
Moonlight learns their direction at the start instead of on the final night, but their ability is no longer active when dead. This makes the Moonlight
Honeysuckle has been updated to not learn if they guessed correctly, making it have less quasi-Townsfolk potential. To balance this change, Honeysuckle now only affects 1 Townsfolk neighbor instead of 1 living Townsfolk neighbor (reducing the damage of drunkenness), while also continuing this drunkenness when the Honeysuckle dies (to give further reason for the Honeysuckle to seriously consider their guess and not just kill themself).
Corvid is back to learning "how many" of its 2 pings are under evil effects rather than "if any" are: I want Corvid to be a more precise solver and I think the reason why I changed it in the first place is bc it could solve for good players too easily, which I've changed my mind about. A Corvid's pings can come from a variety of sources, so I don't want to overcomplicate its info any further unless playtesting convinces me otherwise.
Vulture info now skips Travellers because it should do that (it's not in the image but the change is there I promise).
Honey Badger drunkenness is until tomorrow dusk instead of until dawn, this makes zero difference on this script but it felt better for it to last 24 in-game hours
sturdy linden
Oh are the small moon symbols gone now
gusty void
ive removed them for now, they can be added back at any time tho
i dont rly have a preference i just think it looks a bit cleaner this way
Part 2:
I made this change a while ago, but Wapiti now gets its info as YSK instead of if they die at night. This both allows evil to bluff Wapiti more effectively (there aren't any character-related reasons for evil to be killing evil at night other than a Fox self-kill), makes the Outsider more fun to play, and frankly makes the Outsider more balanced, as an extra evil player is a massive downside and allowing the Demon tracing to always be available makes it a tad less swingy. Also, an Outsider that has YSK info feels a lot fresher than a "if you die at night" Outsider!
Wildfire got a buff, Wildfire now can activate no matter the alignment of the nominee, making late game a lot more dangerous and a lot more reliant on dead votes, since it implies good players shouldn't even be voting in final 3. This may or may not be something I'll have to dial back on after playtesting, but I've found that the previous Wildfire isn't very oppressive and I want this to feel legitimately dangerous in the late game.
Ambersap has undergone a relatively extensive change. The first part is that the misregistration affects an Outsider "closer to the Ambersap in 1 direction" rather than "an Outsider neighbor of the Ambersap". This is because in 1 Outsider games, the latter phrase means absolutely nothing, and frankly continues to mean almost nothing until there are 3-4 Outsiders in play. The former phrase makes it a good bit more traceable and intertwined with directionality, even if it technically forces the Moonlight direction sometimes.
The second change is that the Ambersap starts knowing the Outsider character it is affecting. I figured this would be nice to help the Ambersap track down its frame to be able to actually paint them as a scapegoat (it makes intuitively more sense to tell the Ambersap the player instead, but that synergizes with Mycotaa way too much).
feel free to leave your comments, questions, or critiques!
oh and also i swiped some cooler images from the world wide web and used the ravenswood website for them instead of just using the basic bloodstar stuff, ill credit the image sources in the almanac once i have that updated
twin sinew
alright time to summarize all the recent changes that have been made:
- Corpsef...
As honeysuckle id just guess a neighbour ASAP n1
gusty void
is that something you wouldn't have done with the previous version of the ability?
gusty void
hmmm
i mean it is a bit less than a 50 50 bc your neighbors might not be townsfolk, but even if you almost immediately guess a neighbor im not really against that idea
twin sinew
But you confirm 1 neighbour won't be drunk due to you
gusty void
right exactly
twin sinew
And that's worth a lot more than losing your own ability
gusty void
but i mean surely you feel out what your neighbors are up to before you make the decision right
twin sinew
No
Presuming i can make the choice alla pm
Well
It doesn't specify during day
Neither does this
gusty void
you can technically make the choice n1 probably, i admittedly dont know if pm can but i dont see why not
assume it follows pm precedent bc it does
twin sinew
I've seen it run that way a few times
But that's online
And it is not really bluffable irl so you could say it's not allowed
If I could make the choice n1 before ysk info
I definetly would
gusty void
how come?
i feel like i would at least talk to each of my neighbors on d1 before comitting to guessing one of them
if one feels more socially good to me ill guess them, or if they're both claiming townsfolk roles i might choose based on which character i think id rather not be drunk
twin sinew
how come?
Because guessing correctly matters little
You already know that at most 1 player is drunk due to you
Making sure an extra player isn't a potential target (at all during this game)
gusty void
hmm i see
twin sinew
Is worth more than being able to turn it off
gusty void
yeah okay that makes sense
twin sinew
Your script is less front heavy, so it might be more worthwhile to consider being slower in the decision, though I belive tf would do best to use it asap anyways
gusty void
hmm that's a bit of a conundrum, I want the Honeysuckle to play more carefully than that but it has to also strike the balance of not giving too powerful info
twin sinew
Also, the flavour is banger!! I like forest things :p
gusty void
thank you!
if there's one thing im happy abt with this script it's the strong identity of the flavor
but yeah i might reconsider Honeysuckle to be more of a Puzzlemaster-lite
twin sinew
1 alive Townsfolk neighbour is drunk. Once per game, choose a player: you learn if you've ever drunked them.
twin sinew
hmm that's a bit of a conundrum, I want the Honeysuckle to play more carefully t...
Idk, I think the info is fine as long as the downside still stings
It's still a good bluff
gusty void
im not sure if i like the Honeysuckle being able to have a Steward ping
1 time I ran Honeysuckle and that Steward ping was the most concrete good info that game had
which. could technically speak to the townsfolk info roles but there's enough info there that i dont rly believe that
twin sinew
1 alive neighbour (if a Townsfolk) is drunk. Once per game, guess them, if correct, learn this & you're drunk.
This way could solve that
Stealing (luiss nightshade tech)
gusty void
which one is that again
“Each night, a player (if good) is drunk & gets reversed info until dusk. You then learn the previous player.”
twin sinew
Just grabbed it
gusty void
1 alive neighbour (if a Townsfolk) is drunk. Once per game, guess them, if corre...
hmm i see
only maybe-issue i have with this is that no matter who the Honeysuckle guesses, they know who they might've made drunk
the only difference is whether the drunkenness stays, which is less likely to be there in the first place
and ofc that it isn't a steward ping, which is a good thing
ill think on this and try to find a satisfying Honeysuckle change, ty for your insight
gusty void
alright time to summarize all the recent changes that have been made:
- Corpsef...
ginseng vanished out of existence for some reason, not intentional
latent knot
Is there an updated Json for this?
