Star's Edge

[empty rivet]

Its thematic

[surreal torrent]

it feels a little bit off on vibes

[lunar raptor]

I think Savant is most interesting when weird stuff can happen

[floral isle]

can GoS release already I have 5 townsfolk i want to consider from it

[floral isle]

there's a bunch of weird stuff in terms of a puzzle but savant likes actual wacky stuff

[surreal torrent]

but i also didn’t rack it in either game i ran because Scary so i have nothing to say about how it feels in practice

[lunar raptor]

nobody ever racks savant lmao

[floral isle]

oh i do bc its useful for Spy/LM stuff

[surreal torrent]

savant is also icky with spy

[floral isle]

well if you're based and never misreg to the savant then all good

[empty rivet]

Savant its the only boomdandy hail mary character here

If you give them good info that can semi solve the explosion

If a explosion happens

[surreal torrent]

if a boomdandy explodes i am not giving savant info

[empty rivet]

Thats not what i meant

I mean information that can solve the explosion if a explosion happends

[floral isle]

oh i am bc its aura

[surreal torrent]

ahh gotcha

[surreal torrent]

you’re giving town like a full minute then

unless you’re giving yucky info

[floral isle]

(it'd be prepped and simple info)

[surreal torrent]

even then

[floral isle]

like "X is the Demon or this player is drunk"

parsing savant info with 8 seconds to go!!! have fun!!!

[empty rivet]

I remenber i game where i put the info "there is only 2 characters from trouble brewing in play" and the other one being "if X player (boomdandy) is good then Y and Z are Seamtress No"

[surreal torrent]

the time to pull them aside and then the time for them to even SAY the info and then a little extra time for town means you’re looking at like 50 seconds minimum

[empty rivet]

Day 1 info btw

[surreal torrent]

at least irl where you have to physically pull them aside

[floral isle]

irl i'm whispering it to them in the middle of the circle

i've done it for a fish in the explosion before

[surreal torrent]

that’s really funny actually

i love that

[empty rivet]

Then the boomdandy exploded and i left the only 2 characters that were left the spy and the undertaker as the frames

And the undertaker died 😭

It was lil monsta game.

[surreal torrent]

coming back to the thing from earlier i really don’t like invest

[empty rivet]

I agree it spoils the fun for some characters.

Spoils the fun out of vig, witch, spy, and boomdandy

[surreal torrent]

the two drunks isn’t enough reasons for it to be wrong when you have math ut dreamer and probably others im forgetting AND vi being kinda pushed into checking the pings

[empty rivet]

Yeah

[surreal torrent]

i can’t imagine those being fun dynamics

[empty rivet]

I agreeeee

I think ravenkeeper its the only character i change here now that dreamer its here

[surreal torrent]

juggler spy 👎 👎 👎 👎

[empty rivet]

With ballonist and undertaker it made more sense

[surreal torrent]

is knight anything if you’re nice with the info

[empty rivet]

Juggler its awkward with washerwoman VI, librarian. But it could be a really good hermit searcher

[floral isle]

https://tenor.com/view/glorpshit-this-is-glorpshit-ahhambaga-gnarp-gnarp-gnarp-gif-13113175027861219961

[floral isle]

unfortunately lil monsta just means world building always goes "im the knight." "cool. so if its lil monsta-"

[empty rivet]

Knight its so sad 😭

[floral isle]

btw the GoSy characters I would want to look at are ||Astrologer, Coachman, Stableboy, Constable and Genius||

[surreal torrent]

agree on all of those except ||coachman is mhd if you’re cool||

[floral isle]

i think those tick many boxes this script wants, but alas

[floral isle]

||true but mecha coachman||

i do enjoy how TPOT and Star's Edge both are like "can the expansions come out already" with a few problems on the scripts 😭

if ||Coachman|| ever dropped it'd immediately replace Savant here

[surreal torrent]

i think this is a thing with every script

[floral isle]

true!

[surreal torrent]

just don’t give LMinions as a ping? you’re already saying “never misreg spy to savant”, i don’t see how this is meaningfully different

[floral isle]

thats true but knight is immediately scuppered to players and savant isnt

most players just ignore spy possibilities it seems (with savant)

[surreal torrent]

gotcha

yeah knight with two drunks is kinda rough actually

…is ACROBAT anything??

[floral isle]

i've considered it but still not sure

[surreal torrent]

it’s weird for sure

[floral isle]

i think it does actually work here and it rarely ever does

[surreal torrent]

i don’t think i like it very much but the fact that i even want to consider it is wild

[floral isle]

like

living after choosing someone is insane info

its info that cant be fucked with by spy too

hmm

[surreal torrent]

chambermaid?

two of the minions being EN is a little awkward ig

[floral isle]

its an eh from me, feels a bit out of place

[surreal torrent]

why?

[floral isle]

vibes

[lunar raptor]

spy misregisters as drunk causes a death? but of course not dying can't be faked yeah

[floral isle]

so the thing is about this

the Drunk is the ability that lets you register as drunk

the Spy can't fake the ability

[lunar raptor]

i see

[floral isle]

nvm the almanac says
"The Drunk registers as drunk to the Acrobat."

well

hm

[surreal torrent]

i think it’s fair to rule it either way

[floral isle]

yeah

and i think neither hurt the script

ok acrobat is now in the pool of possible Ravenkeeper replacements

it does accelerate the script which is smth to be careful of

[surreal torrent]

i think with dreamer just added as another drunkfinder adding ANOTHER is a step too far

[floral isle]

yeah true

[surreal torrent]

and acrobat is a little awkward as a bluff

since only yag and gf can do it

and gf needs an outsider executed

[floral isle]

its not so bad because you don't need to die to sell it

you can be the Spy who goes "i chose X and didn't die" and thats still potent

[surreal torrent]

but if you DO want to sell someone as a drunk not having control over that (as a gf team, yag should absolutely have control over that within reason) i think that probably feels pretty bad

[floral isle]

yeye

[surreal torrent]

am i insane for saying mayor

[floral isle]

it used to be here but double drunk means it can be feelsbad

[surreal torrent]

ough old versions being unpinned makes it hard to compare changes

[lunar raptor]

oh i just solved what should go here

gossip

(i lied)

[floral isle]

i was like "hmm" then i rememberd yaggababble

[lunar raptor]

anyways add minstrel

[floral isle]

nice try

TRUE!!!!

[lunar raptor]

nah but yag is what covers for it

[floral isle]

zombuul too

[surreal torrent]

seamstress?

weird with VI

[floral isle]

used to be here but- yeah

[surreal torrent]

snake charmer (i am being dragged into the woods tell my family and friends i love them)

…slayer?

[floral isle]

there's smth to it

would be hype to be a slayer here bc getting it right outright wins the game

although i think Slayer just gets auto killed by any Demon with the grim

Yaggababble and LM can't do that but its still icky

[surreal torrent]

maybe? there are a lot of other really scary tf though

[lunar raptor]

slayer with boom is a bit weird

50/50 shot to hit the demon if they survive

[surreal torrent]

yeah ig you probably never let a sober unspent slayer live

[lunar raptor]

which limits bluffability potential for the evil team

cause if an evil player claiming unspent slayer lives, then that's a bit odd innit

[empty rivet]

I think acrobat would skewer even more faster games imo

Witch godfather yaggabable just seems like a lot to think about?

If it would come in here i consider it as a virgin replament

[floral isle]

i think Invest is still number 1 suggestion but my reservation on that is Shugenja/Invest feels strong

i think if Invest comes on, Shugenja goes

[floral isle]

ah didnt see that

fair enough

hm

i have to run clocktower so i'll be back later

feel free to suggest more stuff

[surreal torrent]

call me a hack but i feel like fish is inoffensive??

[sturdy kayak]

Juggler Spy 👍

[surreal torrent]

already mentioned

[sturdy kayak]

Yeah but you went 👎

[surreal torrent]

oh

[sturdy kayak]

I go 👍

We are not the same

😂

[surreal torrent]

i assumed that was sarcasm LMAO

[sturdy kayak]

No no I think it’s a fine combo if there’s not too many other sources if misinfo

[surreal torrent]

there are two drunks

juggler info is already gonna be odd when they can find good players claiming truthfully who give them a lower number

spy completely throwing off a number is agonizing

[empty rivet]

Especially them "confirming" someone they juggled as the character they are claiming but its actually the demon

Also its that something that can actually happen thou?

Legit, juggler juggles the demon as a character, then juggles the spy as another character.

I think the ST can...

They must be juggled as that character first and then the spy say that they arent that role so that the demon seems like the one who was juggled correctly.

I think juggler brings more questions and doesnt solve

I am firm beliver that there should be a demon bane here

[surreal torrent]

i don’t think any of them work or are fun

[empty rivet]

Soldier

Gives town time

And i think its the most important thing the town misses

[surreal torrent]

as a soldier superfan i don’t like it here

[empty rivet]

Banshee.

Then

The only that i think benefits from being here.

Apart from ravenkeeper when they were with ballonist

It made more sense with ballonist

[surreal torrent]

delta has posted several times about why he doesn’t think demonbanes work here at all (spy/yag/lm/gf/witch)

i don’t feel the need to poorly rehash his points myself

[empty rivet]

Banshee benefits from lil monsta/yaggabable because 1) they can prog during the day confirming possible demon type

[surreal torrent]

also this

[surreal torrent]

yeah this. isn’t fun imo

[empty rivet]

Why it isnt fun thou?

It only cuts the evil team in half

Its that bad

Its more reasons to belive in atheist also if they die in an awkward time

[surreal torrent]

it just feels icky to me regardless of actual “power”

why are you so dead set on there needing to be a demonbane here?

[empty rivet]

Ummm maybe because of how TB adjacent this script is

But yeah

[vapid furnace]

This is an odd question to be asking right now, but why is delta green now?

[empty rivet]

Glurp glurp glurp

[surreal torrent]

this is glorpshit

[vapid furnace]

I'd ask for elaboration but I fear the reprocussions

[empty rivet]

He's on his glurp era

[surreal torrent]

i think soldier, which i do not consider a demonbane, is the closest to working and i still think it kinda sucks here

[lunar raptor]

https://tenor.com/view/glorpshit-this-is-glorpshit-ahhambaga-gnarp-gnarp-gnarp-gif-13113175027861219961

[ruby violet]

https://tenor.com/view/glorpshit-this-is-glorpshit-ahhambaga-gnarp-gnarp-gnarp-gif-13113175027861219961

[surreal torrent]

https://tenor.com/view/glorpshit-this-is-glorpshit-ahhambaga-gnarp-gnarp-gnarp-gif-13113175027861219961

[empty rivet]

I guess. What about Acrobat instead of Ravenkeper thou

[vapid furnace]

Hey @sleek sun ? You have any of that brain bleach you use for your cerenovus stuff?

[surreal torrent]

it’s been talked about

it’s an option

hi vati

[empty rivet]

Hi vati

[surreal torrent]

huntsman: it confirms the location of a drunk

[coarse palm]

virgin -> professor is interesting

still triggers off spy

might be too much tho

[surreal torrent]

nahh virgin is heat

or at the very least it isn’t actively causing issues / feeling bad

is noble anything?

[coarse palm]

shugenja -> investigator is also fun

[surreal torrent]

invest has bigger problems imo

[empty rivet]

Investigator is not fun here😭😭😭

If a new ysk character comes to the script it will probably not replace one that is already here

Because shug washer lib all work really well

[coarse palm]

maybe good team just needs to lock in

[surreal torrent]

i don’t think sweeping changes need to be made without further testing, but ravenkeeper is REALLY pathetic right now

[empty rivet]

Exactly

[coarse palm]

atheist win yippee

[floral isle]

glorp

i turn green on valentines

[placid galleon]

where was the atheist

[sturdy kayak]

Spy was bluffing Atheist + seen as the Hermit

[placid galleon]

ah

[surreal torrent]

@floral isle how do you feel about noble?

[empty rivet]

Noble shug ummmmm

What about mayor

[floral isle]

already discussed

[floral isle]

i do like Noble tbf

[surreal torrent]

what are the options atp

acrobat, noble, soldier, mayor are the ones i remember being discussed as "not terrible"

of those i like noble the most

[coarse palm]

-RK +Soldier is based

[empty rivet]

Delta wants every role to help rule out stuff

Not make new problems

New questions i mean

[empty rivet]

-ravenkeeper +Ballonist

I miss ballonist it used to be fun here i think

Like evil and bad but still fun

[empty rivet]

When is the ravenkeeper out update

[empty rivet]

Noble + shug ummmmmm

[surreal torrent]

i dont see the problem?

[lost sigil]

those are just two characters twin

[half yoke]

is it ever RK --> Slayer?

[surreal torrent]

oh slayer was another proposed option you’re so right

[floral isle]

slayer has aura but its just gonna resolve as a 1 day demon solver or killed immediately by imps or vigors in spy bags

[empty rivet]

Mayor aura

[floral isle]

double drunk

[empty rivet]

Dreamer/lib can help in that

Cult leader then

[lunar raptor]

Soldier aura

[sturdy kayak]

Skorn

[lunar raptor]

you can’t just put Skorn on every script

well actually you can but that’s besides the point

[coarse palm]

Mayor Atheist win is less satisfying ngl

[floral isle]

tbh it's literally just Soldier or Noble for me

Or even Flowergirl/Fortune Teller

Demon mobility is high enough to sustain both

Also

Lil Monsta is possible to take off now

Because of Yaggababble

So that's always an option if things work bad there

[empty rivet]

Chambermaid

[coarse palm]

Ojo back instead of LM?

[lunar raptor]

tbh one of the things that does make spy so strong here is the possibility that you can build someone as spy at worst, but they could still be holding LM

[empty rivet]

Yeah, but i have ruled that a spy holding lil monsta is going to skewer and register more as evil that good

Well not ruled more like ST meta

All depends on context

[analog charm]

Yeah spy misreg from what i have seen has caused the most damage on terms of closing worlds

Its like "this person is good or the spy" or "this person is the witch or the spy if evil"

[floral isle]

it's probably the easiest way to make things easier for good

The main issue here from this is that worlds will close quite dramatically if Lil Monsta isn't here in terms of minion volume

[lunar raptor]

typhon calls to you

you know it to be true

[floral isle]

Typhon Double Drunk

why bother

[lunar raptor]

you mean typhon based based based based based based?

what if you just added philo tbh

yeah it will pick VI every time but so what

[floral isle]

well also philo atheist

like it gets a bit sloppy

[lunar raptor]

true...

[floral isle]

see this is why ||Coachman|| would be so good here

it can just be like ||"Lil Monsta" or "Spy"||

Mathematician and Savant is here to help narrow Spy worlds but Math is the only one that goes in bags

[analog charm]

yeah math does help a lot

[floral isle]

if it was just Imp I think Spy would be tempered enough

[lunar raptor]

honestly it's so based though to have a script where Spy is almost overpowered

[floral isle]

spy tb vs spy star's edge
(coughing baby vs nuclear bomb)

[surreal torrent]

i strongly disagree, LM felt really really important for bag- and worldbuilding when i ran a one minion game

without it how do you ever bag boomdandy under 10p

[surreal torrent]

i’m still unsure why chambermaid feels off on vibes to you

[placid galleon]

@sturdy kayak

mb for pinging you delta

[lost sigil]

i think evil just won another livevoice game

[lunar raptor]

yes

[coarse palm]

RK blank token

[lunar raptor]

after some vote shenanigans d1 we lifted onto carl, then the next day we killed irish

but we just didn't bring it home in the end

awesome was witch cursed d1 and died

UT died n2

and i forgor about the shug when worldbuilding

but then yeah budget typhon line really helped in getting the Storyteller killed

socially i really didn't think it was atheist but i was looking at the wrong demon candidate

[analog charm]

me being good meant compu wasnt the demon!

[lunar raptor]

Irish was helping me solve the whole time and he was a minion so my whole life was a lie

given that the 4 star's edge games i've played recently have all been evil wins, i think the good buff has gotta come quickly

the thing worth noting is that every single one of these 4 games has had an atheist claim

so idk how the balance works out for non-atheist claim games

[floral isle]

atheist is an evil sided claim very often

so it makes sense

[floral isle]

i've thought about it and i think there's value in it

notably getting a Chambermaid 0 rules out either player being a Spy

another thing good needs here is more Spy/LM counterplay

I like Chambermaid an increasing amount

[lunar raptor]

i find chambermaid real weird outside of BMR-likes, but there might be enough waking variety here to cover for all the various wake patterns

[floral isle]

its why i found it off vibes was that Chambermaid tends to suit BMR likes with abnormal waking patterns

[lunar raptor]

it does seem like chambermaid is the best Spy fighter available

i'll throw out Oracle once more as a general solve-helper

[floral isle]

i think Oracle is fun but Spy complicates it

bc rn the issue is Spy

we have Math/Preacher/Savant rn for Spy counterplay

I think tho

Savant ---> Chambermaid

and Ravenkeeper --> Noble/Oracle/FT

?

[lunar raptor]

Oracle + Undertaker feels like potentially a bit much?

[floral isle]

it is on tour tbf

[lunar raptor]

although there's already overlap with Undertaker Dreamer and it's fine

[coarse palm]

is banshee too wacky

[floral isle]

yes

[lunar raptor]

demonsbanes don't have a place on this script i think, yeah

[floral isle]

actually Empath too

[lunar raptor]

it's Soldier or nothin imo (in terms of demonsbane-equivalents)

[floral isle]

empath is tempered by double drunk and spy

but is still very powerful

[lunar raptor]

Empaths an interesting one and overlaps with VI

but it could be a useful powerboost for good

[floral isle]

overlaps with VI but I think in a healthier way than Seamstress or Investigator

because it evolves over the course of a game

[lunar raptor]

i think Empath and Shug can also end up really powerful together, theoretically

depending on seating positions

[surreal torrent]

i like noble much more than soldier

[floral isle]

the issue with Soldier is Spy

[surreal torrent]

?

[floral isle]

not bc Spy knows its in play

but bc any confirmation they get is meaningless if built as Spy

[lunar raptor]

but now chambermaid can help temper that

[surreal torrent]

ah

[lunar raptor]

although it's still not a lot

[floral isle]

if they can be holding LM they still just end up as a frame

[lunar raptor]

if the chambermaid is already out of play

[floral isle]

the benefit of Noble is that Spy spoofing it means there's 2 evils 1 good instead of 2 good 1 evil

[surreal torrent]

oracle AND dreamer both overlapping with undertaker in different ways feels a little icky to me

[lunar raptor]

so yeah LM/Spy with Soldier just can't co-exist at this point

[floral isle]

so you have 2 exact worlds to logic chain from

[surreal torrent]

i love noble as a world limiter to start building logic chains from

i think empath is probably busted here in an unfun way

[floral isle]

(tbh it makes me think Noble ends up stronger than Shugenja just due to that reliability)

[surreal torrent]

isn’t ft already here

[floral isle]

no

[lunar raptor]

noble definitely brings some more solving here, i think that it'd be very good for the puzzle

[coarse palm]

knight? similar role to FT but YSK

[floral isle]

LM

[lunar raptor]

really helps out figuring out logic

[surreal torrent]

i think they do slightly different things

in a good way

[floral isle]

they do slightly different things but Shugenja is really unreliable in worlds

if the Spy is the closest Minion to you, it is extremely difficult to build out from that assumption

[floral isle]

bc it can be where you're pointing, away, equidistant, etc

[surreal torrent]

you’ve got abnormal waking patterns here, a player who doesn’t wake can still be a yag candidate and LM is a whole thing (positive)

[floral isle]

yeah this is the current vision

[surreal torrent]

this looks awesome

preacher, chambermaid, math all fight spy in very different ways

i can see wanting to replace shug actually

[floral isle]

yeah Shugenja eats shit and dies to Spy, its kinda sad tbh

[surreal torrent]

4 ysks especially with chambermaid here now making them a little less reliable as bluffs

[surreal torrent]

this is a thing on tb too idk what the problem is here specifically

[floral isle]

well its because for them to become the Demon they need to lose their ability on TB

[surreal torrent]

gotcha

[floral isle]

so hypothetically if its a Spy, there's ways to trace the pass

usually not but there's options

[surreal torrent]

soldier also seems meaningfully weaker with twice the room to be drunk and witch/gf

[floral isle]

yep

[surreal torrent]

is chef over shug anything

[surreal torrent]

bleh that leaves this problem

[floral isle]

yes

i mean Yag+Godfather are good cover for YSK characters

[surreal torrent]

true

and basically everything else wakes

it’s probably fine

[floral isle]

chef is also a world limiter

a very strong one that Spy tempers

but combos great into Noble

a 1 with a Noble ping is super interesting

[surreal torrent]

with no recluse a high number is pretty spooky for evil

i feel like chef becomes a high priority virgin nommer / dreamer target / undertaker check

because confirmed sober chef with only spy to temper it is huge

[vapid furnace]

Yeah, if anything clockmaker somehow seems a little less broken.

It's insane, f**ing clockmaker

But you have spy, and LM tempering it, rather than just spy

[floral isle]

i think Clockmaker is still stronger than Chef but the usual scaling of Clockmaker weakening in higher evil count games is a sharper cliff

[vapid furnace]

It's still stupid strong.

[surreal torrent]

i feel like evil is already probably less strong on low player count games? since 1 minion means less options for spy causing problems

[floral isle]

Spy is still a toughie in lower count games

but I think Chef Noble Chambermaid coming onto the script is crazy boost for good

i'm gonna sleep on it

but if any more thoughts come to mind, do share!

[surreal torrent]

what i mean is spy in play is dangerous but it’s necessarily in play less often

[floral isle]

true but its about the script presence with Spy

people tend to go "hm well that can just be a Spy"

now if a Spy wants to remain hidden properly in a Chambermaid game they'll need to bluff Dreamer, Math, Preacher, or VI (or hope they arent checked N1 and can bluff Town Crier or Undertaker)

checking the Atheist claim is huge

[vapid furnace]

Since when does the atheist claim necessarily line up with cm info?

Checking the claim can work, but you're going to be forcing the ST to decide if they want to frame drunk or boom or spy or something if they're real

[floral isle]

it helps reveal what the Atheist is getting framed as

[vapid furnace]

I guess that's a little helpful.

It's not as risky as it looks, ofc.

[floral isle]

i mean you want that info bc drunk atheist is tough and knowing its boom godfather yaggababble and thats it is useful on 0

oh wait

chef sucks with boom

its prob ft then tbh

[vapid furnace]

Oh right. Yeah boomdandy

That needs to be a fast ten count

[floral isle]

like Shug ---> Noble
Savant ---> FT
Ravenkeeper --> Chambermaid

[vapid furnace]

How does invest sound?

[floral isle]

invest might be too strong

[vapid furnace]

Is it too strong?

[coarse palm]

feelsbad for boom

[vapid furnace]

Oh, yeah sucky

Kaboomdandy ruins everything

Or rather YSKs

[analog charm]

i think one cool thing about chambermaid here is the interaction with preacher making the minions not wake anymore

both for bluffing preacher and being in play

[surreal torrent]

invest has no way of being wrong outside of drunk which means it becomes a major focus for having its sobriety confirmed (via math, dreamer, ut, virgin etc) and paints big targets for VIs to check

so yeah its real busted

[empty rivet]

Nooooooo not my savant nooooooooooo

Anyhing but savant nooooooooooo

[surreal torrent]

ft's probably inoffensive, it helps when the baby is stuck on the spy and does a lot against vig/yag

[empty rivet]

Let the arbitrary information landscape still be here

I dont think it is the super issue

Ravenkeeper -> chambermaid and thats it

Dreamer/chambermaid/undertaker/savant

All so good

[surreal torrent]

savant icky

[mint jay]

I think losing Savant would be a pretty big loss for the script imo. Savant is a fun puzzle character here and equally gives the ST a lot more control over the strength and relevance of the info.

[surreal torrent]

i like the puzzle aspect a lot more when it has more specific confines

savant being nonconformist makes it feel really off here imo

savant also kinda infamously rarely gets put in the bag here because its such a pain

[quaint root]

How many games have both a hermit and a drunk?

[empty rivet]

All atheist games

[empty rivet]

Nooo i love having boomdandy proof information that can solve explosions!!!!

Savant and boomdandy almost hand in had every game i have them both together on the bag

[surreal torrent]

why are your savants declining the chance to get info on the off chance a boomdandy is executed 😭

if a boomdandy ISN'T executed it just... goes to night and they missed a day of info

[trim cape]

ok

hear me out

unironically vortox

goes DUMMY stupid here

[surreal torrent]

earsplittingly loud incorrect buzzer

[trim cape]

you moment

[surreal torrent]

:(

[lunar raptor]

ok

hear me out

unironically pixlate

is DUMMY stupid

[lost sigil]

star's edge scriptaday delayed for 10000 years

anyway my thoughts on changes:

• I think I agree with the majority in the sense that you want world limiters here versus hard info
• that being said savant is awesome you can't remove it it's gas fire flames please please please keep it
• Noble is great wrt it being a world limiter, I think it's quite fun
• I don't love CM but it does synergize well with Yag/LM. The only issue is that it can be super tough to be an Imp/Vigor who isn't bluffing TC/UT and just get murdered about it since the only misinfo that affects the CM in the case of a n1-sniped Demon are the Drunk tokens, and players will tend to shoot into worlds where they're sober over worlds where they're drunk
• Banshee over ravenkeeper? question mark? fire? i know it's not an info role and you lose character checking but I think in practice RK can be quite weak sometimes, 2 of the Demons are st-kill and the Imp can run away from being seen as the imp. The game I ran with an RK seeing the Demon was an evil win despite the fact the Imp got seen as the Imp going into f3
• juggler with such an open town just feels like a non-starter, juggler wants several reasons for good to be lying (see snake sage mutant cere fang gu on its homescript)
• i don't like acro here but it's a vibe read
• slayer lm is a pet peeve I don't like and wouldn't want here

[empty rivet]

Its not what i meaaaaaan

I mean that the savants info its boomdandy proof

In the way that if a boomdandy explodes, the savant has something to chew onto to solve it fast

[coarse palm]

Bro vi

[coarse palm]

Farmer might be a happy medium between rk/banshee
hopefully vig can flowchart and imp can send it away if needed to avoid chambermaid

[lost sigil]

Bouncing a yag kill or LM kill into the farmer is on-average worse for evil than bouncing it into the RK, is the problem

whereas the Banshee is typically a bit weaker for good/stronger for evil and more of a viable Yag/LM kill

[coarse palm]

I guess, you are only hard confirming a dead player with a banshee while soft confirming 2 (1 alive) with farmer

I dont know why savant is contested here, is it just too much info dumping for good

Savants only been bluffs when i played

[empty rivet]

Cant we have ravenkeeper -> chambermaid instead

[analog charm]

Vortox with 2 drunks

[placid galleon]

issue with preacher is it just always picks the atheist claim

[analog charm]

also yeah i dont like acrobat because i think one towns biggest problems is time

[lunar raptor]

this is a really good point

you ideally want as much time as possible to solve, as a good player

[floral isle]

princess

https://tenor.com/view/rat-attack-gif-12798710424551752432

there's alot of conflicting thoughts rn

[sturdy kayak]

-# who’s arguing for Princess dawg /j

[floral isle]

someone said towns concern is time...

solution: princess

real

[lost sigil]

tpot speech bubble

[floral isle]

that being said savant is awesome you can't remove it it's gas fire flames please please please keep it
btw this has made it very hard bc so far no one has really made a case for Savant

literally the only character no one cares to defend being here is Ravenkeeper

😭

[sturdy kayak]

I think what makes savant really hard to justify sometimes is double drunk

[coarse palm]

Them being drunk or info about drunk

[sturdy kayak]

Them being the drubk more so

[surreal torrent]

yeah it was already kinda mid and then dreamer came on lol

[empty rivet]

With ballonist it was super powerful if both were sober

[lost sigil]

I think savant having flexible nonconformist info is like half of the entire point, it's a huge area of discretion that really helps with atheist solving and socials

like weird savant info is a very good mechanical clue that it's an atheist game (in the writeup you mention, like, savant info only being valid every other day)

and Savant is a character that scales to help good teams that are struggling, which is vital on a script like this

because if the good team is in the hole you can just make the info stronger - you can't do that with 99% of characters and with a script as evil-sided as Star's Edge is in premise it's incredibly useful

[floral isle]

this is selling me bc this script can just deadass support Savant getting brutal info

"these 3 players are good" vs "these 3 players are sober"

i do tend to make Star's Edge Savant info fairly brutal

[lost sigil]

This is also partially because I want more people to do the thing I did bluffing savant while sick and come up with really dumb info

"The Preacher chose an Outsider last night" when Paradox chose me!!!!

and it sells atheist!!!

like that's so peak

[coarse palm]

Me when stars edge by delta is peak

Savant can help counter spy with specific info

[vapid furnace]

It also gets murdered by the spy

So we need to be very careful with it

Savant is cool and all, but we have a problem with spy wrecking the worldbuilding

[empty rivet]

Howwww

Only in imp vigor games it happends

[surreal torrent]

i think savant should stay on for now but keep an eye on it

i’m coming very slightly back around on it

[surreal torrent]

wdym

[empty rivet]

Info that is only relevant if a explosions happends that day

If Boomdandy player is good then X and Y are seamtress No

There are 2 TB characters in play and of them is a minion

[surreal torrent]

shug->noble
RK->CM/FT?

i think i like chambermaid more than FT but i think both are fine, personally i’d like to see CM come on with an eye on it to see how it plays out in practice and then if it feels gross it can come off for something else like FT

@floral isle

[empty rivet]

Let shug stay honestly

[surreal torrent]

ahhhh

gotcha, thanks for explaining :)

[surreal torrent]

nahhh noble is more solid info that doesn’t get completely bodied by spy, both of which good needs

[empty rivet]

Ummmmm

Sometimes spy is bad honestly

With shug

Rarely its ever that good...

[surreal torrent]

shug having to consider that its direction can just be completely meaningless if there’s a spy anywhere near them is rough

[empty rivet]

Thats when Savant goes in

[surreal torrent]

even if you want to argue it doesn’t get “completely bodied”, it’s still a lot rougher than noble in the spy department

[empty rivet]

Yeah i just like that the script has one half hard boiled info + arbitrary info

[surreal torrent]

“hard boiled” is awesome love that phrasing

[empty rivet]

It is the charm of this script

[lost sigil]

in my experience Shugenja info is really really powerful on star's edge?

but that's just from my limited experience playing/STing it

maybe in LM it's a bit easier to handle

like, noble pings are good pings, so it's a little easier to be evil and in one than be pointed to by a Shugenja

the Spy dimension is a good point though

[surreal torrent]

shug info is strong but it folds hard to spy and the possibility of spy seems to be the main concern with good's struggles

i agree that shug info is often really powerful! because usually it acts similar to a noble ping (the couple people in the other direction are Probably good and if they're not then that limits worlds meaningfully)

[coarse palm]

Maybe RK to noble is all that's needed for now

Keep savant for creativity

[surreal torrent]

that was a proposed ver but at that point shug feels a little bad bc its worse than noble against spy and doesnt have much utility that noble doesnt have and also combos a little weirdly with noble pings

[empty rivet]

It is part of Shug's charm.

Let them be here.

[quaint root]

My brain is telling me to throw invest and clock into the ring as strong YSKs

[empty rivet]

Ummmmm

[quaint root]

as a guy who has never played the script, surely this is fine

[empty rivet]

You should

It is an experience as all of Deltas scripts

[quaint root]

yeah it's on my list

[keen harbor]

How does snitch+hermit in play together look? Obv not super interesting but for the sake of entertaining the idea

[quaint root]

You give three bluffs and you also give three bluffs

In reality they can overlap so you just give 3-6 bluffs

[surreal torrent]

both have been discussed, i personally don’t think immediately jumping to the nuclear options is reasonable

[quaint root]

Noted

I will watch this script/thread with great interest in the future

[lost sigil]

Investigator has been discussed several times and it's usually felt too strong

[floral isle]

actually no

the Snitch ability is satisfied by the other

you give 3

even with 2 snitch abilities

[lost sigil]

the star's edge scriptaday cannot come soon enough ‼️

[vapid furnace]

It hasn't already happened?

[floral isle]

i keep delaying it through deciding if i fuck up the script or not daily

[lost sigil]

it's basically 90% written but i need to finish stuff on my end + need to see if the script is actually stable

like I don't want to push it out and then Delta takes Atheist off the script and replaces it with Chambermaid

[floral isle]

removes boomdandy

what now

[surreal torrent]

sun’s border

my take remains “make changes now, you can revert them later if they make the script worse in practice”

[floral isle]

oh yes i know i'm just trying to settle on what is changed

Shug --> Noble for sure

thats locked in

[surreal torrent]

yippee

i really like that change

imo savant should stay on for at least a little longer

i’ve been convinced

and then rk out for one of ft/cm? or what are you thinking

[lost sigil]

delta doesn't like ft/lm iirc

lowkey i wanna see banshee over rk but i think cm could be interesting, if swingy

[surreal torrent]

this is true but he’s also posted about it here as a cross between “nothing else works better” and “finding a spy holding the baby is good” iirc

[floral isle]

pretty much yeah

its cm or ft

[versed parrot]

I don't think LM/FT is awful -- an FT "no" is still two players whose execution won't end the game

[vapid furnace]

I mean, for a day

I also dislike it

[vapid furnace]

CM is probably better here in every way, for this case.

[surreal torrent]

yeah i like chambermaid significantly more but think it probably needs an eye kept on it if it does go on

[trim cape]

banshee is stinky with like spy and two non agentic demons

bait roles are kinda slop here

[surreal torrent]

yeah soldier is the only one that’s even remotely reasonable and even then it’s pretty yucky imo

[quaint root]

and tbh kinda the point of the script is a collected, up front town, which demonsbanes mess with somewhat

Snitch/spy/GF means there's a lot of bluffing potential for evil

plus boomdandy that doesn't mind being a little suspicious

and atheist, ofc

[empty rivet]

Yeah i dont mind shug but if delta thinks its bad i dont mind the change

I just wanna see ravenkeeper out now that dreamer exist

[floral isle]

i dont think Shugenja is bad I just think its worse than Noble

[empty rivet]

Well leave it

I dont think spy bodies it

Could ravenkeeper -> fisherman even work here

[surreal torrent]

fishermid

[coarse palm]

Me when stars edge by delta turns into the pasage of time

[surreal torrent]

starcinization

[empty rivet]

Or artist

We dont know if artist would actually be insane good solo solvers here

[placid galleon]

the humble boomdandy

oh wait i see your point

[quaint root]

Planning to run this a few times tonight, should I do 2.4 unmodified or do shug -> noble and maybe swap out RK?

[coarse palm]

Try RK to CM that's the most volatile

[quaint root]

👍

I'll throw it in

[quaint root]

I have noticed a problem

Not with the script

Preacher only has three "No Ability" reminder tokens

There are hypothetically impossible grims with LoT/Lil'Monsta

[sturdy kayak]

If you need to place a 4th reminder token down something’s gone wrong 😆

Not mechanically just in the game

[lunar raptor]

at that point you don't even need a reminder token to remember what's happened

[silent trail]

there's also the blank reminder tokens that come with the box if you end up in a situation where you'd need them, yeah?

[analog charm]

at that point kill the preacher in the night

[surreal torrent]

wait that just made me think of something awesome

showing a drunk undertaker boomdandy when the preacher claim claims to have chosen them

[quaint root]

Game One

Evil win! Dropped the atheist token on the groud, so I don't really count it, but decided to run it anyways to get people used to the script. Town forgot they could world build two minions after a witch death

[surreal torrent]

as in dropped the atheist token midgame and players saw it?

[surreal torrent]

this looks like a good win to me?

[quaint root]

Token misplaced, witch hopdimg the baby

[quaint root]

During bagbuild

[surreal torrent]

what’s the problem then

[quaint root]

It was after tokens went out

Sorry kinda frazzled rn

On accout of

Game Two

Atheist win, was framing the snitch as the vigor but they just full sent it on day 3
Also we had four travellers join day two which made it kinda messy. Players had a good time by all accounts and I had a blast but people didn't want to play the script again :/

[surreal torrent]

how did chambermaid feel?

[floral isle]

As in didn't want to play the script ever again or just that they didn't want to play more of it for that session?

[surreal torrent]

and if it’s the former, is that a common thing that happens with most/all other customs or a notable occurrence

[quaint root]

That atheist wasn't particularly interesting to them

[quaint root]

Honestly pretty good

[vapid furnace]

Ah, creative differences. It happens

[placid galleon]

wait did they add preacher to star’s edge?

[surreal torrent]

yeah i can get that, i think atheist sometimes doesn’t click until good loses to evil bluffing it

and even then it’s just not everyone’s thing

[quaint root]

Yeah

I was bummed we didn't get another game in

[analog charm]

preacher has been on star's edge

[placid galleon]

oh yeah

silly me

[sturdy kayak]

The ethereal “they”

[floral isle]

whoever could the writers of star's edge be

[vapid furnace]

Good question. You're just the delta. The coalesce of hundreds of little streams, each one a contributor to Star's Edge. You are where they meet.

[floral isle]

tbh this is kinda the vibe i like having in other artistic stuff i have so i do love that

[surreal torrent]

hello mister coalescence of streams can we have chambermaid stars edge

[floral isle]

i'm board gaming but soon

[surreal torrent]

yippee

[placid galleon]

the woke left

[lost sigil]

oh :( where'd they go?

[analog charm]

to the right

[lunar raptor]

to bed

[lost sigil]

ok!

[empty rivet]

My friend who really liked this script wants Ravenkeeper -> Ballonist because its necessary godfather support

[coarse palm]

is it

[empty rivet]

I think he belives that both being together can pull up the winrates by a lot.

[trim cape]

chat what

[floral isle]

Ravenkeeper --> Chambermaid

Ravenkeeper felt sad here. Town is now, with the addition of Dreamer, needing less Drunk/Hermit finders and more "Spy/Boom" finders and a Demon hunter. Chambermaid fits this, but in a weird way when it comes to finding Demons. It's immune to Spy, and evil has interesting enough waking patterns to justify its presence. It might end up too cop-like, so lets see how it goes!

Shugenja ---> Noble

Shugenja depending on the bag can have game winning info or completely useless and junked info. From towns POV, it is impossible to tell which is which, and the swing is easily counterplayed by evil team narratives and world building focuses. The Noble is harder to dismiss, and has more consistent value, and is less vulnerable to Spy disrupting their info. Noble isn't an evil ping generator, but it does let town cross reference it and use it to build out logic chains: something Shugenja struggled to ever do.

[floral isle]

balloonist will plummet good win rates further

it is simplyvery difficult for good to deal with Balloonist claims adding a potential outsider

[empty rivet]

Valid

Showed the new version to my friend

He thinks its MUCH MUCH BETTER

Aye where is the custom backdrop and the custom token

👀

[vapid furnace]

Dang it, now I have to update the gallery again.

[empty rivet]

Not bad

A dont care for cops, in scripts

[vapid furnace]

Cops?

[empty rivet]

Cop type characters

Chambermaid is a cop

Farmer in some cases is a cop

[vapid furnace]

I don't know what you mean by cops.

[empty rivet]

Is a type of character that directly counterplays other characters

[vapid furnace]

Oh. Huh.

[empty rivet]

We already had Preacher for Boom/Godfather/witch, but now Chambermaid can double up and find demons and stuff

[vapid furnace]

Why do you call them "cops"

[empty rivet]

I dont

Some part of the community here calls them cop

[vapid furnace]

I have never heard that term.

[empty rivet]

In the write up is mentioned

Read it

"Cop-like"

[vapid furnace]

So it does

Is that some British slang I'm too American to understand?

[empty rivet]

I dont know im not british

[floral isle]

oh mb

one sec

[floral isle]

Ravenkeeper --> Chambermaid

Ravenkeeper felt sad here. Town is now, with the addition of Dreamer, needing less Drunk/Hermit finders and more "Spy/Boom" finders and a Demon hunter. Chambermaid fits this, but in a weird way when it comes to finding Demons. It's immune to Spy, and evil has interesting enough waking patterns to justify its presence. It might end up too cop-like, so lets see how it goes!

Shugenja ---> Noble

Shugenja depending on the bag can have game winning info or completely useless and junked info. From towns POV, it is impossible to tell which is which, and the swing is easily counterplayed by evil team narratives and world building focuses. The Noble is harder to dismiss, and has more consistent value, and is less vulnerable to Spy disrupting their info. Noble isn't an evil ping generator, but it does let town cross reference it and use it to build out logic chains: something Shugenja struggled to ever do.

this is the one that can be pinned

[floral isle]

no

cop is basically a "Each night, choose a player: learn their alignment" in its purest form

sober VI with no strings attached

its from forum mafia and the like

essentially the "cop" as an idea sucks because most players in that setting are vanillagers so their best bet of winning is following the cop

a "cop" in botc adapted terminology from other script authors using the term is "a townsfolk which uniquely dominates importance in the solve due to its power"

Savant on TPOT is very close to being a cop for example, as its the main source of info and if you want to follow reoccuring info, its on paper your only thing to follow

chambermaid is a "cop-like" potential because its info can be so world breaking in certain cases that following it is the only logical thing

this is bad, so hopefully chambermaid isn't this dominating

[vapid furnace]

If it becomes a problem just add vortox.

[coarse palm]

two drunk abilities is already evil sided so i think its ok

[trim cape]

VORTOX LETS GO LETS GO LETS GO

[coarse palm]

vortox and 2 vis are drunk and hermit

[floral isle]

I think Vortox just actually makes this script completely unwinnable for good I'm ngl

[placid galleon]

VILLAGE IDIOT

yo lowkey atheist might be too evilsided maybe swap it for Cult Leader? Hope this helps

[trim cape]

“yo pasta has too many carbs have you tried drinking donkey piss”

[sly ledge]

it's a good idea

[vapid furnace]

I was kidding.

[versed parrot]

The timing of the pin made me think axo was pinning this

[half yoke]

evil win!

Savant info for this game:

N1 - The godfather removed an outsider OR a Hermit ticked the math number
N2 - Evil player dead OR False info was given last night
N3 - The preacher has not picked a minion OR you neighbor an outsider
N4 - Every other player woke N1 OR all players at cardinal points are good
N5 - Peter is the Hermit OR an evil player just died

Noble (Hermit) was the day 1 exe, giving me the witch ability. Curious self-cursed N1 and succesfully framed an Atheist world

Imp was dreamed as Imp/Hermit N1, seen in a drunk Librarian ping as the Hermit, and picked by both VI's N1

no idea how they got away with that

My only question is how often should I use drunk/hermit to tick up math numbers?

gave a 2 N1 because of the Noble and Lib pings being off, not sure if that was the correct call

[empty rivet]

Always

When it is necessary to solve the game

[analog charm]

pretty much the "might" is kinda just bad and makes the game unsolvable so you should either always proc math number with drunk or never and tell your players which you are doing is what i think

[lost sigil]

On this script, it should be ruled that the Drunk/Hermit always pings the Mathematician

[quaint root]

A player asked me if a drunk atheist pings math

don't, right?

[surreal torrent]

waiter! waiter!

[surreal torrent]

up to you as long as you’re consistent, but it’s really cool if you rule it as yes

[surreal torrent]

delta’s intent is for it to always tick up the number

[quaint root]

ping it once or every day?

I'm not sure how that would work

[vapid furnace]

Once, at setup

[quaint root]

ah

yeah that makes sense

[surreal torrent]

yeah it fails to accomplish its setup effect which pings math on night 1 and then never again

[surreal torrent]

how did chambermaid feel?

[lost sigil]

Intent is that it pings N1

the same way recluse/marionette pings the math because of the setup misreg

[floral isle]

Always.

Math is a drunk solver

[floral isle]

It does and this is useful for good to have

Makes a N1 0 very juicy

[half yoke]

Pretty good! Managed to catch out the Witch waking N1, though town didn’t follow up on that too much because the Witch claimed Atheist

[surreal torrent]

fire

[half yoke]

\

Good win!

[lunar raptor]

very fun game

we had a few theist worlds that were just on the verge of maybe being plausible, but nothing quite clicked, leading us to executing the storyteller

noble was very helpful here btw in limiting worlds, very good change

[half yoke]

Game 2 evil win!

CM once again proving very useful in limiting worlds (CM 2 on Yag and Spy N1), Acaila just barely got off the block at the end

[sturdy kayak]

tbh town wasnt quite together on final day lol

like we either kill boom or acaila lol and did neither

[half yoke]

also quick question (don't unspoiler if in game): ||do you ever sim boomdandy on an atheist game? I cannot find a ruling/jinx on that in the almanacs||

[sturdy kayak]

|| can do, players can point at the ST or if online the exploded player ||

[surreal torrent]

waiter! waiter!!

[lunar raptor]

my flaw as a player is that i'm far too risk-averse

i definitely should've voted for acaila, or supported the boom

[empty rivet]

Tomorrow im gonna narrate another one

[half yoke]

Game 3 atheist win but uh. yeah I don't got the grim for this one. pretending it didn't happen

(but all jokes aside, Noble makes for a REALLY good puzzle atheist tool)

[half yoke]

Game 4 evil win!

Spy played this game masterfully

[empty rivet]

Waiter! Waiter!

[half yoke]

spy was claiming UT and when starpassed to claimed that I was giving them cannibal info instead of UT info

NO idea why town bought that

(oh yeah drunk atheist)

Game 5, evil win

Kaboom

[sturdy kayak]

Waiter… waiter…

[half yoke]

uhhh also a question I could not find an answer to

if a boomdandy "is the Demon" as per the Lil Monsta and is picked by the CM, does the CM number tick up?

[surreal torrent]

WAITER! WAITER!

[surreal torrent]

i would rule no as it's the lil monsta ability causing the minions to wake up but i'm not 100% certain that's the commonly accepted ruling

but as usual the "official" ruling matters less in a given game than just picking a ruling and sticking to it

[sturdy kayak]

No. A player isn’t Lil Monsta and therefore doesn’t wake to its ability

[half yoke]

Well shit.

Game 5 doesn’t count then, they exe’d the boomdandy off a CM 1 between them and the UT on first night

[floral isle]

@half yoke did the theist games feel balanced?

like was it the case that each evil win felt like it could've been a good win?

[half yoke]

Hmmm.

I think most of them felt like good had a chance, and they were definitely solvable.

Game 2 evil only won because town voted on literally nothing final day, and game 4 people had the solve but ignored it because the spy turned imp was pushing atheist so hard

Game 5 did feel a little unwinnable for good, but that’s partly because the boom f3 was three VI claims + me mucking up the CM + LM interaction.

[severe tide]

is the newest version on botcscripts.com?

[vapid furnace]

Nope!

@floral isle

[empty rivet]

So the winrate rn is 4/1 huh

[vapid furnace]

Actually 4/0. True atheist games don't count.

Since true atheist games are usually supposed to be wins for good.

So they're tracked on a different count.

Ideally that aims for around a 85% winrate.

[empty rivet]

I couldnt storytell today a game of this

[half yoke]

I am realizing that the evil team gets a HEAVY power bump if drunk/hermit atheist is in play

[vapid furnace]

Yeah, the concept is going to be a liiiitle evilsided.

[empty rivet]

I notice that boomdandy its also really strong here

[vapid furnace]

If there's anything that scares me on this script, its the spy.

Though boom is also really scary.

[empty rivet]

Honestly witch being the weakest minion seems odd

But yeah

[half yoke]

Spy is by far the scariest minion.

[half yoke]

This game the spy misregistered as Hermit to lib and then TC/Boom to dreamer, and that locked town into atheist

Was solvable because of the math number, but it’s still WAY harder to solve than witch/gf

[empty rivet]

Giving the key solver to one single player is not that good

[vapid furnace]

I think genuinely the solution to the winrate problem might be to axe the spy.

Maybe for widow or something?

[empty rivet]

Wraith

[vapid furnace]

No

Not great with atheist.

[empty rivet]

Widow+Hermit+drunk+vigormortis

Juicy

[vapid furnace]

That is...a lot of droison...

Maybe not widow then either.

Or maybe just don't build that bag.

🤷

[empty rivet]

Well it is actually the same poison

Tbh Spy is worse poison that Widow

Here.

But it would make Virgin stronger

Unbluffable

And harder for evil to bluff Atheist

[vapid furnace]

Ok, leave the spy

[empty rivet]

I think we need to make more open towns

[surreal torrent]

spy is suuuper necessary with this tf suite

small sample size and anecdotally apparently good has had solid chances to win theist games on this version

so i think it probably needs to sit for a bit longer before changes start happening again

especially something as drastic as cutting spy which would require a massive reworking of the townsfolk and imo significantly worsen the vibe of the script

[mint jay]

Will 2.5.0 be put up on the script site?

[surreal torrent]

delta probably just forgot

[floral isle]

yep

doing it now

was busy yesterday

[floral isle]

yeah i played mentally with the idea of removing Spy but it earnestly is not great

the script has a very unique vibe to it and I think Spy contributes to that feel because its been so built around making the character work

[surreal torrent]

spy bags might need even stronger good teams than what people have been doing? idk

[empty rivet]

I think what spy bags need its st driven deaths

And for the good team to not be crazy executing boomdandys

[floral isle]

well i more so think STs keep not putting stronger townsfolk in bc it feels like it'd be too good sided

like bring on the maths and solo VIs bro, script can handle it

[surreal torrent]

solo vi is a great spy solver mhm 🙂‍↕️

[placid galleon]

just put atheists in spy bags, that’s a really strong townsfolk!!!

[floral isle]

TRUE!

[vapid furnace]

I mean, the setup text says no evil characters, but the spy registers as a good character, meaning it's even legal!

[placid galleon]

https://tenor.com/view/truth-supernova-super-truth-nova-true-morgan-freeman-sephiroth-gif-4644219165557616305

[coarse palm]

Why is delta blue now

[faint gazelle]

papyrus used his attack on him

[sturdy kayak]

Yeah @floral isle gotta change your username back to blue

[floral isle]

true

[surreal torrent]

boom exed on 4, i got the Point almost unanimously

[surreal torrent]

there were 2 extremely viable demon candidates that town actively decided they thought was less likely than atheist but they were not far off

chambermaid felt fine (just another piece of the puzzle) but it didn’t really get stress tested at all

the word vigormortis was not spoken once

[empty rivet]

Any game with an atheist claim is most likely not vigormortis

[surreal torrent]

why? it was base 2 and there was a framed godfather

[empty rivet]

Yeah

[surreal torrent]

but even then it wasnt mentioned and then discarded it just straight up never came up

[placid galleon]

Evil win!!! i forgot to save the grim but the hermit atheist got executed and i boomdandied and everyone pointed at me and lost

despite the witch basically putting evil

[placid galleon]

Atheist LOSS

they killed the VI with BS info on final day

the fake evil team was the preacher and the sober VI, but the two players had minor beef so I knew they wouldn’t talk to each other during the game, which was supposed to be a social hint that it was atheist

also the atheist didn’t claim until day 3

[coarse palm]

is this still evil-sided

[surreal torrent]

evil has been winning more theist games than good, but it’s hard to say if that’s an issue with the script, bags not compensating for the inherently evilsided concept of the script by giving town more tools, or just a bunch of (probably slightly weighted) coins landing on the same side with too small a sample size to draw a meaningful conclusion from it

[half yoke]

^

after STing more games of this script, I'm realizing I'm playing WAY too hard towards the evil team

any player seeing an atheist token for any reason is such a nerf

[surreal torrent]

fwiw

[half yoke]

oh, that's good to know!

[surreal torrent]

yeah that was not intuitive at all to me but i see where he’s coming from

• the atheist claim being a bluff by an evil player is just cooler

[surreal torrent]

highlight of this game: the player who pulled atheist was the same one who pulled it LAST time we played stedge (also a real atheist game) AND who had just bluffed atheist as evil on a different script earlier that night. i showed them as hermit to the librarian and then the dreamer immediately picked them and saw hermit/boom so during day 1 they kept pulling me aside to crash out and it was the funniest shit ever

killed her going into f4, i gave myself PD-witch and “cursed” the boom who i thought would selfnom (in retrospect i could also have “floated” the curse and just bonked any nominator to prevent the “execute the boom then point at ST” strategy town did but meh same result + that probably gets me killed even harder)

[lost sigil]

oop forgot to post this here too

[surreal torrent]

hey waiter waiter you fucked up my order

[floral isle]

good win!!!!

also

i ran this a few weeks back

3 good wins (i said 2 but realised i played one where we won) 1 evil win

so 4 good wins

and tbh

the evil win that happened

i feel like good would have won it

but the world they were trying to find was very niche

(i showed the Spy bluffing Atheist as the Godfather to the Drunk Undertaker, good was certain the Demon bluffing Plague Doctor was the most likely Demon but couldn't find the world where the N2 Math 1 felt right)

was pretty mean but I was very impressed with how the players handled the game

they've really got to grips with puzzle atheist

they refused to give in as long as they could, even players who are usually atheist believers have gotten skeptical

i think for this group, Star's Edge has hit the dreamed of "becoming balanced bc the players have successfully adjusted" threshold

mostly seen through the fact there was 3 good wins in 4 games with no Atheist games

fellas

literally no vig bags lol

i need to run more yag myself but last time i ran it was a louder session so I didn't want to run yag in that environment

but!!!!

50%ish win rate...

i forgot to take a picture of 2nd game actually so i deadass cant remember if it was yag or not

bc i think i only ran imp twice

2nd game was faster so i dont remember it well

[coarse palm]

Good win

[surreal torrent]

how did chambermaid feel?

[coarse palm]

They got pretty wrong info, being in a hermit ping

(i wasnt the ST)

[surreal torrent]

ic

[fossil heron]

why is there a nonzero number in "Atheist" + "Starting Evil"? Does Atheist mean at least one player claimed Atheist?

[floral isle]

Starting is a hold over from a different table

It's just total Vs good win Vs evil win

[analog osprey]

evil win after d1 boom

[empty rivet]

Guess the meta its the same

[surreal torrent]

waiter!

[floral isle]

who'd they point to?

[analog osprey]

cosmere the godfather

[floral isle]

unfortunate

[analog osprey]

also just realized i used an old version oops

grabbed the json from the post linked in the start of the forum post instead of the pin and its on an old version still

[floral isle]

ah shit mb

i'll fix it now

[placid galleon]

oh joy

Good Atheist win!!!

final day grim

[surreal torrent]

the eternal question: how did chambermaid feel? did you give it any false information to frame players?

[empty rivet]

I was the chambermaid and it felt really good!!!

Like it was meant to be on the script after all this time

[surreal torrent]

massive

[placid galleon]

yeah I had a fake evil team as specific roles so I had the chambermaid info fit that

[surreal torrent]

awesome

chambermaid is soo heat here

[placid galleon]

it truly is

[empty rivet]

I storytold my first atheist game and it ended day 1 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

Town was so friendly that they just hard lock into atheist being real then someone started claiming boomdandy and decided to make them explode

So i got boomdandy win

[fossil heron]

A good-aligned player claimed boomdandy??

[coarse palm]

What was the setup

[empty rivet]

After 7 nominations it was kinda crazy.

This

Preacher claimed boomdandy so that town could execute someone

Good won anyways so yeah

[half yoke]

Good win!

CM ended up solving the game, I was framing Naomi as the Imp but there was a CM 1 N1

[half yoke]

Evil win!

[half yoke]

sometimes, stupid is the best way to go: by the end of the game, the Drunk (that saw VI) had a good on every alive player since final 5.

this led them to believe that the GF (claiming WW with incorrect info) couldn't be the Hermit, and was thus the demon.

[half yoke]

Good win!

CM picked the demon N1, Imp had to back into TC

[half yoke]

Evil win, Hermit saw Atheist. Absolutely BRUTAL vigor poison on the Dreamer

[floral isle]

OUCH

this reminds me that I was heavily considering removing Vigormortis and need to consider it further

[empty rivet]

Vigor its good here

[half yoke]

I got desperate at the end and showed the Dreamer "Atheist or Imp" on the Hermit, which. uh. They did not, in fact, think they were vig poisoned after that

[surreal torrent]

the one (1) convincing argument i've heard in favor of vig is that it makes nightkilling the atheist early really interesting

but

• imp/LM both have a similar effect
• vigpoison both real and simulated is very wacky here

especially with its ability to easily jump over drunks/hermits

[placid galleon]

did they execute the ST or the atheist final 3?

[half yoke]

ST

[empty rivet]

This script is wacky i dont care Vigor its good here 😭

Making reacurring info untrustworthy is great

[surreal torrent]

you know what else does that

two drunks

[empty rivet]

Yeah that makes Vigor the most deadly demon here imo

[surreal torrent]

that’s….. the problem…..

[empty rivet]

Ummm

[surreal torrent]

vigpoison can be Very strong here in a pretty debilitating way

and it forces town to consider significantly more worlds at all times when there are already a ton for them to contend with

[empty rivet]

I dont think the script as is its slightly evil sided now

Do we need Vigor out?

Well i dont know, i welcome any change this is one of my fav scripts

Like top 3

[half yoke]

Vig out for Legion?

[placid galleon]

atheist legion what a great interaction

[surreal torrent]

i think just -vig is a fine change

not every script needs four demons

[lost sigil]

In my experience running it, I think that Vigor still needs to be here for misinfo purposes

• None of the minions have extreme synergy with Vigor - Witch is the best one and it's just okay
• Most games won't have a ton of misinfo in it by nature of Hermit removing other Outsiders and hermit selfremoval - removing Vigor might just lead to good sweeps

Like, good has insane amounts of info here and I think Vigor poison needs to be a possibility

maybe like 1/50 games will be Godfather+1 in b2 hermit drunk

If Vigor was oppressive, then that's something else, but as is I don't really think it's awful and I do think it's necessary. As a bonus its script presence helps Yaggababbles kill more without outing yag since it explains Minion abilities being around longer

[lunar raptor]

i dunno cause double drunk + spy misreg is still quite a good bit of misinfo

[surreal torrent]

i don’t feel like vigpoison is loadbearing at all

[surreal torrent]

LM does this too

[lunar raptor]

vig helping yag is cool and i like it but it's not necessary, i think

[surreal torrent]

sure vig does it better but i don’t think the cost is worth it

[lunar raptor]

especially when hermit plague doctor exists too

[lost sigil]

Good should not be building worlds with two drunks in most games

Spy misreg exists but it can't and usually won't save a Demon

(you shouldn't be misregistering the Spy who's babysitting LM most of the time)