#Binary Supernovae (World Cup Finalist)

1 messages · Page 3 of 1

lone marten
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Who got executed

floral arch
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Yeah, it does look quite swingy.
I'm considering running this for my next game, but I think it might swing even harder toward goodsided with infinite time longtext game has.

lone marten
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how many good wins have been down to an empath 2 next to two demons

pure dagger
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Empathy stronk 🦾

calm furnace
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pukka poisoned golem nominates demon, philo next to two demons goes empath, philo-magi gets outed to...

floral arch
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Makes sense

lone marten
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Basically, good need to play actively, or get swarmed

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And they need to play actively early

young loom
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holy shit there's 2003 messages in this thread

neon schooner
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Well now you had to go ruin it and add another smh

prime dagger
calm furnace
lone marten
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that's the yagg phrase!

young loom
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the typhon line is you four

floral arch
young loom
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town needs to gather more information about them

lone marten
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yagg and typhon all in 1 script?

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that sounds simply too crazy to work

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anyway

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2 demons

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wooo

young loom
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if someone did make a script with those two demons and like the vigormortis or ojo or something they'd probably be really talented and cool

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it's too bad that nobody's actually done it

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and even if they had they wouldn't be STing a game of it right now in #scheduled-game-chat

neon schooner
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Typhon is really funny with this djinnlegger but unfortunately it's also garbage design wise

ruby lodge
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noo we have 4 evil on 7

neon schooner
#

Ok wait after seeing a lot of games I think recluse would be really really good for this script

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The problem is oracle, and me distrusting STs with math

calm furnace
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I likeit

neon schooner
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There's not much I can do about the math thing and it's the lesser of the problems

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However I am not putting recloracle on my WC script

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Undertaker fills that slot better than anything else but it has very real bluffability issues

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EN* is best for this slot (for math reasons) but EN will suffice

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I don't think I want chambermaid AND ft

ruby lodge
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i mean

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recluse misreg works fine with math

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It's just that droisoned recluse might pings math doesn't

neon schooner
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VI is....... it brings some good things to the table but it's just empath again

ruby lodge
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don't run recluse math the way it might +1

ruby lodge
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cuz no is valuable and yes is bad

neon schooner
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An empath is gonna see the recluse as good and some STs are gonna think it's a good idea to register the recluse as the demon to the math and therefore ping

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Or something like that

ruby lodge
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that's not an issue as long as it's raw or rai

neon schooner
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That's not like a real concern tho

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It's just a thing people might do

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And now that I've experienced app STs.... I'm not optimistic

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It's not a worry for the streams tho

ruby lodge
#

yeah but rc oracle doesn't wok

calm furnace
neon schooner
ruby lodge
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having 2 VIs with evil ping on pukka is ST issue

neon schooner
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Empath -> vi wouldn't be the worst thing in the world but empath is a big part of why I want recluse so

ruby lodge
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i think UT is nerfed on the script anyway

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cuz 1. theres no drunk
2. theres no much exes

pure dagger
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UT seems like the nemesis of MM

ruby lodge
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oh tru

pure dagger
ruby lodge
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rc: dies
oracle: now i die although i don't

pure dagger
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It's not thaaat bad, especially with extra evils

calm furnace
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yeah I don't like UT here

neon schooner
neon schooner
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The problem is the rest of the character

ruby lodge
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what is the problem

neon schooner
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It's not very bluffable

haughty tangle
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perhaps summoner mitigates the unbluffability of UT a bit

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but i do just think oracle is much more interesting here

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I also dont think recluse+oracle is even a bad interaction

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if the recluse claim is dead and the oracle gets a 2 that still means theres at least 1 dead evil

ruby lodge
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but they wouldn't get a 2 if only 1 evil has died

haughty tangle
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and this is a script where there can be 2 dead evils at any player count

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if the recluse has died then they might

ruby lodge
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it's hard to say ithink

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maybe test it

neon schooner
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A big part of oracle's usefulness here is detecting mastermind days which only cares about the difference between the current oracle number and the last

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Recluse makes that fully unsolvable

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Knowing how many evil players are dead isn't all that useful, I'd just sub for general then (which. maybe.)

ruby lodge
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but what would general get on a mm night

neon schooner
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But knowing how many evil players died on each night is oracle's strength

neon schooner
ruby lodge
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"ok guys i need to extend the night for 10 minutes so i can give general info"

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usually not but it's kinda how it works

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but i don't think general works well

neon schooner
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General also adds a new dimension of ST fiat to the script and I love how focused it is rn

ruby lodge
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i mean it's bsn

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so it's kinda tilted

neon schooner
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Wdym

ruby lodge
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properly determining which team is winning in this djinnlegger rule is not easy

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for both ST and players

neon schooner
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Oh true

ruby lodge
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Well this is BSN so clearly general always learns evil on n1

neon schooner
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General is also a positive feedback loop

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so

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Not ideal

ruby lodge
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yep

neon schooner
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Well, more accurately, if good is winning then general just makes them extra confident

ruby lodge
#

ik

neon schooner
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Which isn't a dynamic I want

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(positive feedback loop breaks as a term for when evil is winning)

ruby lodge
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hmm but i think not really for this script

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good either wins or still trying

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there is rarely a "good is winning" thing

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cuz exes are really tight

young loom
neon schooner
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Then the philo sat between both demons chooses empath n1 when it's out of play

ruby lodge
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i guess so

young loom
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i was about to ask why empath 2 was so common on bsn before realizing why

neon schooner
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Extra evil lol

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Which means it's very valid to give it as misinfo!!

young loom
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(exactly pukka or philodrunk n1)

neon schooner
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STs are used to just flipping between 0 and 1 bc that's what you should usually do on TB

young loom
#

you don't give 2s on tb?

neon schooner
ruby lodge
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you sometimes do

young loom
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if you don't give droisoned 2s then they always think their actual 2s are sober

neon schooner
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If it's gonna look drunk I'm not gonna do it

ruby lodge
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How often does good win without empath 2 though

neon schooner
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But also other STs will just flip between 0 and 1

neon schooner
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It definitely happens

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On the new version ofc

ruby lodge
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That's very not persuading

lone marten
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not acceptable

ruby lodge
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I mean the winrate is fair enough

lone marten
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we need it to never happen

ruby lodge
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but if it requires empath 2 to carry too hard it kinda doesn't work

young loom
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omw to claim empath 2 as evil on this script (i'm neighboring the magician and my other demon)

neon schooner
lone marten
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script makers when they realise empath is really strong (it is really strong)

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but it doesn't sound like it

ruby lodge
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this is bsn

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empath is really strong

lone marten
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it doesn't sound like that this is empath the script

neon schooner
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Look at this one for example

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Empath is really strong yes

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I have gone on rants about this

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This script needs strong info tf

ruby lodge
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If good can properly win without specific carrying gimmicks i think this should be champion

neon schooner
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Is empath -> vi something people would suggest

lone marten
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I like ballad of seat 7 a lot though. Like I think this is a cool gimmick I won't lie.

young loom
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vi seems terrifying for evil here

ruby lodge
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nah it's fine

young loom
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as someone who's played a lot of this script i'm not a vihead

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just off experience i do not think it would work well

ruby lodge
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actually since it's +1 evil, VI is less swingy

neon schooner
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Ballad is a really fun gimmick yeah

young loom
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rather, empath probably works better here

lone marten
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A LoT?!?!?!

neon schooner
ruby lodge
lone marten
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yE

ruby lodge
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also you have more ppl to bluff VI

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i think it can work

neon schooner
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I do also think recluse is a good way to nerf empath

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Like that almost carries it on TB

ruby lodge
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VI also nerfs empath

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both way goes

neon schooner
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I'm not putting both

lone marten
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is it a nerf?

ruby lodge
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the problem is nerfing empath impacts balance

neon schooner
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Recluse barely touches vi that's the thing

lone marten
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I do think this is a good home for VI. I just dunno if it will be a... whats the word

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If VI will just eat it alive like a invasive species

ruby lodge
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nah

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it's totally ok

lone marten
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how does VI summoner work

neon schooner
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Drunkenness goes away (I hope)

ruby lodge
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clearly the demon is not drunk

lone marten
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i more mean

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is it like the pit hag jinx

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where it can shift around

neon schooner
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Nah

ruby lodge
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nah

lone marten
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or is it not jinxed

neon schooner
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Just summon a sober vi

young loom
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philo-vi

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that's the one thing

neon schooner
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That too

ruby lodge
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o yeah

young loom
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because that is just absolutely insane to have on script

neon schooner
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(pls TPI give us a jinx where a philo vi might be philo drunk)

young loom
#

compared to philo empath I think philo VI is more insane

lone marten
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Just bluff Philo VI as evil 🙃

young loom
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i would be ok with recluse but something something oracle as mastermind detector something something hystrex doesn't want outsidery outsiders something something

neon schooner
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It's TOO outsidery

young loom
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and UT doesn't work as previously stated lol

neon schooner
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Right

young loom
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boffin as 5th minion for bsn when

neon schooner
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Man why does UT have to be 2 characters at once

lone marten
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Undertaker is 2 gnomes in a trench coat

neon schooner
lone marten
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if it nominates itself it dies

young loom
ruby lodge
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noo

neon schooner
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I'll put pois on this script yeah

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5 minions

ruby lodge
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yeah sure put poisoner on bsn

young loom
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no boff-ik is poisoner from trouble brewing

ruby lodge
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it totally works

neon schooner
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Ik

young loom
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yeah boffin ik

ruby lodge
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but actually it doesn't work

neon schooner
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We already have a poisoner on this script we don't need 3

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(pukka, summoned pukka)

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Juggler

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Is a character in the game

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Ojo and summoner nerf it 👀

lone marten
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It is commonly found on SnV

neon schooner
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It is!!

lone marten
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It is also a common bluff for sage

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and an unusually effective one

ruby lodge
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not a common bluff for sage starting from d2

neon schooner
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Tbh can I have stableboy 😭 I'm going through the list of tf and King would be cool but choirboy is suck

ruby lodge
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cb suck

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king without cb suck

neon schooner
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Stormcaught king feels like a bad idea too

ruby lodge
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i guess they just suck

lone marten
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The humble king who is summoned into the Ojo:

ruby lodge
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why not summon someone else

neon schooner
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......pixie?????????

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Savant????

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I'm just listing any character I don't hate here at this point

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Savant is, again, incredibly off vibe and takes away from the narrow focus the script has

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Also there's not much to tell it other than offscript ysk simulator

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Oh also savant recluse, lol nvm

ruby lodge
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also it's bad

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savant has 0 agency (or bluff soldier, that is)

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you want agency on bsn due to the nature of it being tight

young loom
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artist /j

neon schooner
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Town crier is a character in the game

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It has the unfocusing problem and there's no witch but otherwise 👀👀

neon schooner
young loom
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chambermaid :)

neon schooner
#

....I could

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It's prob the best option

ruby lodge
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it can

neon schooner
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But that feels like boffin on CC where it's still not that good of an option

ruby lodge
#

replace empath with chambermaid)

neon schooner
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Well no the whole idea is to add recluse and swap out oracle

ruby lodge
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oh

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but oracle is good here

neon schooner
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I think empath is fine here. It's strong and that's what this script needs

neon schooner
#

Otherwise yeah I love it here

ruby lodge
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courier🤓

neon schooner
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Summoner 😔

ruby lodge
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oh tru

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but it still works

neon schooner
#

Same idea as recluse oracle lol

young loom
ruby lodge
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there is still 1 demon in play

neon schooner
#

Rerack simulator 😔

neon schooner
#

The summoner chooses which demon but not which player

ruby lodge
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yeah

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so theres no problem

neon schooner
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The evil team just sends it on the demon 😭

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There is no counterplay

ruby lodge
#

why'd you drink summoner

neon schooner
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Zero

ruby lodge
#

drink with demon

neon schooner
ruby lodge
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also you can have the other demon killing courier

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usually you can't do it

neon schooner
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Also let players have agency smh

ruby lodge
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evil has a great counterplay called "let the other demon work"

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it's wild but it's less wild than usual

ruby lodge
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if they choose to let the ST have agency it's their choice still

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not like drinking summoner is optimal option

neon schooner
ruby lodge
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it is cuz it's not an optimal choice, it's one of them

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so you are given choices

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also drinking with summoner gives away a part of courier's agency also

neon schooner
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Right but some courtiers will choose summoner

ruby lodge
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then let them be

neon schooner
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No I don't want that interaction on the script

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Id rather recloracle

ruby lodge
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some ojos will f up their kills

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damn i feel this is the one time where courier gets close to a normal townsfolk😭

neon schooner
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I mean it has a higher chance of hitting a demon blindly than a coinflip

ruby lodge
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assume it does hit a demon

neon schooner
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Pukka n1 is a very strong pick

ruby lodge
#

hmm

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actually yeah

calm furnace
neon schooner
#

t

ruby lodge
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oh courtier

neon schooner
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I assume

calm furnace
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I see

lone marten
#

Courtier is based just ignore when it doesn't work

ruby lodge
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hey it eliminates worlds still

calm furnace
#

I think Courtiers always pick Summoner

lone marten
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That's how I make my scripts

calm furnace
#

poppygrowing a demon on this script is insane

ruby lodge
#

😭

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blame on summoner

fringe crescent
calm furnace
#

actually it might be fine

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Summoners just pick Imp there and hope the Imp instastarpasses

ruby lodge
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while evil has the counterplay called actually killing the courtier, summoner has blown it

calm furnace
#

-# this is close to my thesis of “Imp might be too good for BSN but there’s nothing worse so I’m letting it slide”

neon schooner
#

Oh interesting

calm furnace
#

Pukka and Ojo are sortof known as the two weaker demonso

neon schooner
#

Imp is strong sometimes and then other times it corners itself with no way out

calm furnace
#

but when I try to explain BSN to people I can’t say “BSN has the demons that are weak individually because there are two of them which make them better”

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because like

ruby lodge
#

because clearly bsn doesn't

calm furnace
#

Imp is so powerful

neon schooner
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Yeahh

ruby lodge
#

pukka isn't weak ojo isn't weak

calm furnace
neon schooner
#

The theory with imp is that the djinnlegger makes it weak, in practice that's only true like a third of the time

fringe crescent
calm furnace
#

nah the Djinnlegger makes it a lateral move

ruby lodge
#

no not vortox

calm furnace
neon schooner
#

I didn't want horizontal demons here

ruby lodge
#

you want strong info still

neon schooner
#

It can work but like I just didn't want it

fringe crescent
#

"horizontal demons" like this is more than one character

neon schooner
#

Zombuul!!

ruby lodge
#

noo

calm furnace
#

(French Lilac currently has Zombuul, I came to this too)

neon schooner
#

Kazali is horizontal too

ruby lodge
#

zombuul cannot trigger djinnlegger after dying at night

fringe crescent
#

Elaborate upon this take

ruby lodge
#

at least imp still can

twilit sonnet
calm furnace
#

I think that Horozontal demons affect the gamestate globally

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Kazali picks all minions, Vortox makes all info false

young loom
#

pukka isn't weak on this script

ruby lodge
#

kazali is omod

young loom
#

it's kinda insane

calm furnace
#

yes

#

on this script is the keyword

ruby lodge
#

seems like that ojo is weak

neon schooner
young loom
calm furnace
ruby lodge
young loom
#

like pukka on a grimm chorus goes INSANE

neon schooner
#

Zombuul and kazali fundamentally alter the game in a way that affects a lot of things

ruby lodge
#

you just don't make 2 vortoxs

young loom
#

pukka on BMR typically does super well

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pukka on cannons has historically been good

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what else

neon schooner
ruby lodge
#

pukka is good

young loom
#

oh yeah pukka on miss register might be the strongest demon on the script

fringe crescent
fringe crescent
twilit sonnet
young loom
#

i haven't played church of spies

neon schooner
#

I think it's fine to have horizontal demons on a 2 demon script, but they should all be horizontal and I wasn't gonna build that

fringe crescent
#

time to make the kazali vortox bsnlike

ruby lodge
#

let's just keep discussing what tf to use instead of oracle

calm furnace
twilit sonnet
#

…. Flowergirl guys troost

calm furnace
#

question

ruby lodge
calm furnace
fringe crescent
calm furnace
#

also I’d assume a Kazali picks the other demon too

young loom
#

idk i kinda like running it where they don't

neon schooner
#

Wait imagine the mm engine on a bsnlike

twilit sonnet
calm furnace
fringe crescent
#

legion bsnlike

young loom
#

po

#

yagga

neon schooner
ruby lodge
neon schooner
#

I think the demon being a random token is very important for kaz

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(I really really don't like cawthane on a conceptual level)

ruby lodge
#

it just, has no effect basically

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[maybe +1 outsider]

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cuz demon doesn't need the +1 bluff

neon schooner
ruby lodge
#

kazali gives minions bluff

young loom
twilit sonnet
#

But seriously

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Vati

fringe crescent
ruby lodge
#

but seriously

twilit sonnet
#

Use the trinary information

ruby lodge
#

are we using courtier on bsn

young loom
#

no lol

twilit sonnet
#

And balloonist

neon schooner
#

If summoner wasn't core I'd consider

ruby lodge
#

Then i'm off to make courtier bsn

neon schooner
#

Most of the town is balanced around exactly summoner 😭

neon schooner
fringe crescent
# ruby lodge poppyganda

I have a much easier time rolling roundabout grims that feel playable than poppyganda ones so that's not even a good argument for vortox legion

twilit sonnet
fringe crescent
#

then again I've only tried to use the version of poppyganda that has a hilariously misplaced vigor

young loom
ruby lodge
#

snv is bad for vortox bc of too many binary info

digital island
#

whats roundabout

twilit sonnet
#

the required characters haven’t released yet

neon schooner
#

I love half of poppyganda and despise the other half it's crazy

young loom
#

also vigor fucks on poppyganda???

ruby lodge
#

actually trinary info would fit vortox better

young loom
#

it's weird there but it wins

young loom
fringe crescent
ruby lodge
#

you need these info to make vortox work

twilit sonnet
young loom
fringe crescent
#

I am unenthused by vigor on roundabout too but at least it works with the minions (that deconfirm legion)

digital island
twilit sonnet
#

but it’s because evil can convince of the lack of tornadoes

ruby lodge
#

what explanation

twilit sonnet
#

Or at least

digital island
#

that kinda looks cool

young loom
twilit sonnet
#

Shenanigan their way into making it just not Vortox

ruby lodge
#

no it's just evil died d1

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😠

neon schooner
#

If it's legion and you don't get oracle 2 n2 then uh good luck 😭

young loom
#

executed a good d1 :)

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(it was the bounty hunter)

neon schooner
#

Is pixie like

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A terrible idea

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Actually jk I built for philo not pixie nvm

ruby lodge
#

no it's just not strong

young loom
#

noble for bsn when

neon schooner
#

Tbh can I have a minion finder that's not TC or invest

ruby lodge
#

there isn't another

fringe crescent
#

noble (let's be real)

ruby lodge
#

noble being minion finder is wild

neon schooner
#

I'm gonna put scout on just watch me (my homebrew)

young loom
#

on bsn of all scripts i'd probably show a demon more often

ruby lodge
#

it's better knight

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dont do it

young loom
neon schooner
#

Yeah sure

young loom
#

wait vv seeing a demon as mm detector

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goes hard

ruby lodge
#

put WW

neon schooner
#

TRUE

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Actually scout goes hard here oh no

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Chat I might just put chambermaid on

ruby lodge
#

sure

neon schooner
#

Nothing else works really

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I'm not thrilled by it but it's not actively problematic which seems to be the bar

fringe crescent
neon schooner
#

Yeah basically

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Wait good is down a mm detector :(

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MM is the most divisive character here, I want town to be able to deal with it

young loom
#

how many mastermind days has evil actually won on this script bffr

ruby lodge
#

twice per game

young loom
#

oh yeah hystrex I wanted your opinion on a rule call

neon schooner
#

Sure

young loom
#

Demon gets executed, triggering mastermind day

In the night, the Imp starpasses to the Mastermind

is it still a mm day?

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Intuition is that the game just goes on normally

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But I know that you rule that on a MM day a skip is a good win (despite the fact that RAW the game should continue)

neon schooner
#

I think the best ruling is it just goes on yeah

ruby lodge
#

if it goes on it's like lil'm mm

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i think it's op

neon schooner
#

It can't be a mastermind day anymore (barring the vigor precedent.......), but good didn't do anything to win

ruby lodge
#

oh wait you mean starpass

desert notch
#

wait what are we discussing

neon schooner
#

In the short term, mm jank

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In the long term, "how can I add recluse to the script without toppling the house of cards"

ruby lodge
#

if another demon is exed on mm day

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is there another one

calm furnace
neon schooner
#

But RAW yeah there's another

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And it's fine to rule it like that

desert notch
calm furnace
#

oh I see

young loom
#

RAW game continues

desert notch
#

though I guess you could interpret 'play for 1 more day' as resolve win cons by then

young loom
#

just by a reading of the text

neon schooner
fringe crescent
#

(behind occultist and tactician)

neon schooner
#

It's kazali but anti botc I'm sorry 😭

#

Most of TBA is really great

fringe crescent
#

Going to make a cawthane script and you will see the vision

neon schooner
#

The OM is cool!!

gleaming hollow
fringe crescent
#

Sleepwalker is kinda cool but I like roles that can go on scripts more than roles that can't, on average

neon schooner
#

Waking patterns:
Good
1 YSK
4 EN
3 EN*
1 OPG
7 nonwakers
1 philo
Evil
Demons are EN, EN*, or whatever they were pre summon and then EN
Minions are gf, OPG*, nonwaking, n1 & n2 & possibly n3

fringe crescent
#

I don't make normal non-homebrew scripts and feel a gap for Sleepwalker

#

I do for Occultist or Tactician or Cawthane

gleaming hollow
#

idk i often feel like none of the outsiders in my scripts fit the vision and i want something can just be a wide swathe of options

#

then sleepwalker my beloved comes in

twilit sonnet
neon schooner
#

That's why amne is an outsider now

gleaming hollow
#

machinist is a townsfolk

neon schooner
#

Didn't you hear? It's canon

gleaming hollow
#

TINMBH is by far my favorite djinn rule

twilit sonnet
#

“Is”

gleaming hollow
#

not as favorable

twilit sonnet
#

What outsider amne?

twilit sonnet
fringe crescent
calm furnace
neon schooner
#

Amne is an outsider on one of the WC scripts

calm furnace
#

no

gleaming hollow
neon schooner
calm furnace
#

Cawthane is worse Kazali in everyway

gleaming hollow
twilit sonnet
gleaming hollow
#

from my playtesting of the script hard disagree

#

pukka is by far the weakest

gleaming hollow
neon schooner
young loom
gleaming hollow
gleaming hollow
#

it does hard counter RK

neon schooner
gleaming hollow
#

but like

young loom
#

kenoboiiii let the pukka be good

neon schooner
#

Vote how you want, though BSN votes are ofc appreciated :)

gleaming hollow
#

maybe we should move to the miss register channel for this i feel like we’re talking about everything except BSN

young loom
#

oh i'm voting bsn tomorrow

#

you voted for nvg for the f3con comp i gotta pay that back

calm furnace
#

me tooo

neon schooner
#

(yes I checked if they were poisoner proof, no there was not a single one)

young loom
#

boink

young loom
calm furnace
#

thing I wish I could do to the WC comp

neon schooner
#

It's possible to build pois well

calm furnace
#

most scripts don't

neon schooner
#

It's very very rare

young loom
neon schooner
#

TB does it really well!! Meaning it's technically possible

young loom
#

(other than midnight oasis :))

neon schooner
#

It also works on CT because it's CT

#

I will defend poisoner on TB hard

#

Anyways I can't wait for suggestions to come flooding in through twitch chat and for them to be vizier

young loom
#

all teensies are coinflips

calm furnace
#

truer

neon schooner
#

(like genuinely viz has been suggested for the explicit reason that it's a thrall)

#

"good has an extra evil they need to find so vizier makes it so there's one less"

#

Like I get where you're coming from but have you considered that no

calm furnace
#

😭

neon schooner
#

Literally what detects mm

calm furnace
neon schooner
#

Is it just a skill issue

#

It might be

calm furnace
#

Hystrex

neon schooner
#

People find mm oppressive

calm furnace
#

how does one find an MM day on BMR

twilit sonnet
#

MM is bad

calm furnace
#

nuhuh

twilit sonnet
#

What is this oppressive MM slander

neon schooner
twilit sonnet
neon schooner
#

And demons can sink

#

Or self kill

#

It's different... somewhat

twilit sonnet
#

In Fairness Hystrex, that was more interesting

neon schooner
#

Tbf peopy are used to "no kills = mm" when really it's "1 less demon = mm"

twilit sonnet
#

The paranoid Hystrex, Gaining a scary math 1

neon schooner
#

I'll prob playtest chambermaid this weekend

neon schooner
#

Wild idea

#

Fool -> sailor

#

Surely I'm too tired to accurately assess this

#

Surely it's a bad idea

#

...right???

fringe crescent
#

See hystrex? You see how it feels to make a script that inherently has a character on it that's a massive headache with the core script premise, and you're trying to find solutions to it and everyone goes "nooo they're not theoretically optimal"

#

Anyway sailor is funny probably

neon schooner
fringe crescent
#

True! I should make cawthane the second cc demon

neon schooner
#

Each night*, if an evil character died by execution today, learn which. If not, learn an out of play evil character.

#

Smth like that

#

The part of UT that I want

#

It's not like it's learning 7 nights of info so

#

Wait genuinely this fits so well oh no

#

Might be weak but eh

#

(also it's a little too junkable)

neon schooner
ruby lodge
#

weak

haughty tangle
#

it's like judge and undertaker had a child

ruby lodge
#

like extra weak

#

too weak

#

Each night*, learn the character of the player who died by execution today, if they're evil.

neon schooner
#

I mean ok that's strictly weaker undertaker

#

Barring SnV

#

We could workshop this

#

Or not

ruby lodge
#

oh snv yeah

haughty tangle
#

i like that with your version of the role you can learn an out-of-play evil character if you're confident the executed player was good

#

anyways this is veering into #homebrew-characters

gleaming hollow
#

you know it’s goofy when MASTERMIND is considered op

neon schooner
#

Ppl are just used to mm = 0 deaths ig

gleaming hollow
#

that’s not even true ON its homescript

neon schooner
#

Ik

#

But this is the feedback I've gotten

neon schooner
#

Nvm on sailor btw

calm furnace
#

lol

#

this is the good idea

neon schooner
#

Misinfo townsfolk :sotrue:

#

Fool is insane enough we don't need more

calm furnace
#

nah

#

good doesn't have enough time for science

neon schooner
#

I mean the idea behind the balance of it is you don't science

calm furnace
#

so then what it's bad soldier?

#

is this what bsn tinkering has come to

neon schooner
#

It's like clockmaker vortox food, there's some merits but it's only really am intermediate strat

#

Nah science d3 to actually confirm them

#

Or soak up a gf kill

calm furnace
#

I genuinely do not believe good has the time to d3 science

neon schooner
#

It's more that evil can't afford to frame the fool

#

Because if they ARE executed, science happens

calm furnace
#

so if the fool's utility comes from restricting evi

neon schooner
#

Look my options are limited ok

#

I need 4 decelerants

ruby lodge
#

kinda

calm furnace
#

what am I supposed to do as the fool

ruby lodge
#

but it's bad

neon schooner
#

I think that particular game ended before then but at that point I come out as fool and coordinate with the math

calm furnace
neon schooner
#

Town can execute me if they want, it's useful at that point

#

And if not then evil has to kill me

ruby lodge
#

how does fool coordinate with math

neon schooner
#

And we narrow worlds no matter what

#

If a fool is attacked while they still have their ability it pings math, regardless of the outcome

calm furnace
#

The fool after hiding all game dying to the assassin blade on night of f8 to hit the all evil final 5:

ruby lodge
#

does ojo arbitary kill on fool ping math tho

calm furnace
#

yes

neon schooner
#

Yeah

#

Req is there another decelerant that fits the script

ruby lodge
neon schooner
#

It confirms worlds so incredibly hard

ruby lodge
#

it's kinda like bmr where having too much tf pooling in one type of info backfires

calm furnace
#

Pacifist :3

#

good can get an unbluffable pacifist save as a treat

#

:3

neon schooner
#

Paci is not a decelerant in context

ruby lodge
#

yeah if no one claim exo, soldier, ik then that is defenitely math ping

#

(actually pukka poisoning a demon is also math ping)

calm furnace
#

Minstrel :3

neon schooner
#

If it only drunked one demon? Absolutely

ruby lodge
#

but if someone does claim exo/soldier/ik fool isn't great even if ping math

neon schooner
#

Well no there's info nvm lol

calm furnace
#

Monk is technically a decelerant

#

I think that this is running into the CC problem of

neon schooner
#

It is yes

#

It doesn't fit

calm furnace
#

"We are running out of released characters"

ruby lodge
neon schooner
calm furnace
#

actually why doesn't courtier work again?

neon schooner
#

Summoner

calm furnace
#

bc it always picks summoner?

neon schooner
#

That's literally it

ruby lodge
#

i think the thing is you can't have that much decelerants and the script still function

neon schooner
#

No, because it CAN pick summoner

ruby lodge
#

it's simply not something that works normally

calm furnace
#

sure but Summoner just picks Imp and hopes that no contact with the evil team clues it into starpassing

ruby lodge
#

and bsn isn't rlly an exception

calm furnace
#

because there are two demons

#

generally the faster a game gets to f3 the better for evil

ruby lodge
#

but you don't get 2 times of info

#

decelerants essentially displace 1 info

calm furnace
#

this is why BSN is unbalanced

#

Decelerants attempt tomake it more balanced

ruby lodge
#

use professor

calm furnace
#

too much deceleration I fear

ruby lodge
#

it's not bluffable and it's op but it's bsn

neon schooner
#

(it still happens dw)

ruby lodge
#

where do i vote for the wolrd cup

calm furnace
#

botc.app

neon schooner
#

Voting for BSN opens in like 5 hours

calm furnace
ruby lodge
#

luck for u

#

bsn goes against a poisoner script

#

i guess there's no doubt

neon schooner
ruby lodge
#

it's n2 pukka n3 imp

calm furnace
ruby lodge
#

ojo? where

neon schooner
calm furnace
#

I realize now that imp can tech starpass on n3

#

yeah that seems unlikely I mean imp starpass n4

neon schooner
#

To the summoner? Yeah

young loom
#

they sometimes should

#

that way they don't kill the assassin n3

ruby lodge
#

starpassing to the assassin belike:

young loom
#

...to the summoner

lone marten
#

just live laugh love as the summoned imp

#

kill people. are they on your team? who knows

#

Starpass to the outed recluse

neon schooner
#

Wait that's so funny

#

If it was "their team loses" then I'd totally lean into that

lone marten
#

You are summoned and your team does not know where you are?

#

Make it their problem

#

you didn't ask to be put into this world

#

also

#

now that I think about it

#

Here's the thing

#

Yes, the Courtier can drink with the summoner and OH NO I DON'T KNOW WHERE I'VE SUMMONED

#

But...

#

You summon on N2 or N3 right

#

That's your choice as the summoner

#

You have time to mess that up

#

You have a Demon playing lapdog

#

It might be terrible

#

But i am playing Devil's Advocate and it might not be as terrible as it looks

#

also do you go for the summoner or... one of the Demons killing everyone?

#

Like... maybe you'd just rather go for that pukka, Imp or Ojo to buy good some extra time

#

Summoned Demons can be anywhere, but you're still gonna have two fully functioning demons by the end of the day

#

You're not slowing down the deathrate

#

It's at least tempting to half the death rate

#

just food for thought

#

I don't think the Courtier will always go for Summoner, and I don't think it will be optimal. It is viable, but so is just going for a demon and finding out

young loom
#

I think Pukka n3 will be a legit play

#

just because you might have two of them

lone marten
#

they poison each other

young loom
#

Personally I don't like the Courtier/Summoner jinx, so wouldn't want it on BSN, but I wouldn't be too too upset either

lone marten
#

I think this is a great home for Courtier and it can shine here. But it can become too big

young loom
#

me courtier drunking the golem before I get summoned:

#

(they don't summon me and I've wasted my ability and played for evil for nothing)

neon schooner
lone marten
#

oki

neon schooner
#

It's a script that leans into player agency

lone marten
#

fair

neon schooner
#

Assuming players won't make a certain choice is just.... I'm not gonna do that

lone marten
#

I do disagree there

neon schooner
#

D1 fool executions are part of the script and a fine thing to do even if it's designed to be suboptimal

lone marten
#

Most of the Courtier discussion has been assuming they'd go for the Summoner. I get that it's a bad interaction

neon schooner
#

Not from my pov

lone marten
#

I just wanted to point out that is not all they're gonna do. But it's fair

neon schooner
#

It's assuming they COULD go for summoner

lone marten
#

Ye

#

And you want as little bad interactions here as possible

neon schooner
#

I don't want that interaction happening ever on this script

lone marten
#

ye

neon schooner
#

Like recloracle

lone marten
#

It's just... sometimes you have to give up something if the script isn't working. I don't know enough to comment whether or not it's working.

#

And I have been wrong. Like my analysis of Fortune Teller was way off.

neon schooner
#

It seems to be working fine, it's a matter of can it work even better

lone marten
#

ye

neon schooner
#

And the answer to that is probably yes

lone marten
#

Well it's also about deciding what comes off

#

And you can only get that from games

#

And feedback

neon schooner
#

Right

lone marten
#

In my case it's often surprising to hear what doesn't work

idle marten
#

Ok, this might be a little out of left field, but Dreamer over Oracle to allow for Recluse?

#

or is that too busted?

lone marten
#

we didn't want undertaker for bluffability issues

neon schooner
#

^^^

#

Dreamer is something I've thought of for the script and there's just no way to bluff it

lone marten
#

spy 👀

neon schooner
#

Undertaker is within the realm of possibility, even if it's too hard to be feasible in most cases

neon schooner
idle marten
#

Fuck it, TB + ojo + pukka + summoner

lone marten
idle marten
#

*terrible

lone marten
#

we need to add an acrobat too

idle marten
#

not bluffable

lone marten
#

it synergises with pukka trust

idle marten
#

gotta add gambler and gossip then as well

neon schooner
#

Courtier would justify acro 👀

#

But also

#

Nah

lone marten
#

nah

idle marten
#

Outsider acro?

#

lol

neon schooner
#

Ain't no way

idle marten
#

Honestly Widow could be interesting here, ngl

neon schooner
#

See the problem is that it becomes a widow script

lone marten
#

acro pukka is a very lovely combo

#

but that's it

neon schooner
#

And more importantly ojo is really cool and I don't wanna take away from that dynamic

lone marten
#

acro Village Idiot

idle marten
#

replace ojo with levi, trust

neon schooner
#

Hi vati

#

Also widow is too loud to coexist with assassin and gf here

#

There's no confound

fringe crescent
#

Shocked to see Hystrex admit that it is perhaps not universally possible to bluff true undertaker info for every evil team in every game

idle marten
#

im actually only half kidding, Slevi + bluffed widow goes hard in this context

neon schooner
idle marten
neon schooner
#

Next time I pull evil on this script I'm gonna write down UT info as we go and see if it's believable by the end

idle marten
#

Just summon onto the widow ping, trust

neon schooner
#

I get that UT changes how people play but shhh

idle marten
#

just Saint/Librarian, ez

neon schooner
#

What 😭

idle marten
#

Real suggestion time: Goblin/FlowerGirl/Barber

#

EZ money

neon schooner
#

Fg is yes simulator

#

Goblin is oppressive here

#

Barber is more demon movement than the script wants

#

Goblin barber is particularly oppressive

idle marten
#

wait, now that i'm thinking about it, ET over mastermind?

neon schooner
#

What why

#

It's too loud anyways

#

It's widow volume

idle marten
#

it allows for widow ping on "Good" twin

neon schooner
#

??

lone marten
#

i'

#

erm

#

what

calm furnace
lone marten
#

also evil twin is so strong here it's basically mastermind

#

wait

#

...

#

hm

young loom
calm furnace
#

mhm

young loom
#

are you listening to yourself 😭😭

pure dagger
young loom
#

the goal is to make this good 😭😭

calm furnace
#

why am I defending this I was making a jokelol

neon schooner
#

Tbf half the WC pois scripts make it interesting and unique

#

Is it still poisoner? Perhaps. But they do something with it

neon schooner
pure dagger
#

This vision slang sure has taken off

neon schooner
#

I'm rotating the vision in a hystrexwall inside my brain

calm furnace
#

vati

#

ur wrong 💞

fringe crescent
#

I'm always right

neon schooner
#

Axo reacted that first 😭

fringe crescent
neon schooner
#

StS reference

calm furnace
#

what

#

having "a vision for things" is just common slang

young loom
pure dagger
#

Not in the way and frequency I've seen it in custscripts recently in my estimation, but YMMW

calm furnace
young loom
#

got snubbed </3

calm furnace
#

big if true (big 😔)

idle marten
#

Ok, so I know you can't change the djinnlegger phrasing, but Vigor on here + vigorkilled demons keeping their abilities actually goes kinda wild here ngl

neon schooner
floral arch
#

I keep looking at this one and previous and somehow don't see what CM replaced.

#

Oh, it's -Oracle

pure dagger
#

I saw CM and thought "Damn, putting a Clockmaker on the script, bold"

prime dagger
#

Being played on stream tonight 👀

neon schooner
#

I considered clockmaker actually

#

The summoner jinx makes it too confusing to seriously consider

#

But back in the xaan days it would be sensible to put clock on unjinxed

floral arch
#

Yeah, that's fair.

neon schooner
#

lol theyre playing bsn on the app

#

why now of all times

#

i cant feasibly watch both

#

screenshotted the voidstarr stream lol, wont post here until the game is over

neon schooner
#

soon.

idle marten
#

This commercial must be agonizing for you lol @neon schooner

neon schooner
#

the commercial is over, now it's just the wait

desert notch
#

IT'S HAPPENING

cursive pebble
#

Its time :D

desert notch
#

absolute pandemonium

#

lovin it

digital island
#

okay what is going on i just joined

#

the stream

#

it looks like evil's about to win but chat is saying evil still hasnt figured out the magician? 😭

#

never mind

neon schooner
#

GOOD WON?????

digital island
#

magician best townsfolk

neon schooner
#

Magician is so incredibly core here I love it

desert notch
#

I loved the two demons complaining to each other about how they were being framed as evil

#

||both of them thought the other was good||

neon schooner
#

Lol

#

Content at its finest

desert notch
#

that is gonna be some votes

final anchor
#

That was a pretty fun game

idle marten
#

I had to leave in the middle...where would I be able to rewatch it?

#

anyone know?

tame ledge
#

The vod is available on the tpi twitch and YouTube channels

neon schooner
#

It'll also be on YouTube as a video at some point :)

#

(that's not immediately available tho)

pure dagger
#

It is because it was livestreamed

digital island
#

rewatching the VOD, moonchild still cant pick good players

pure dagger
#

Out of curiosity, what's the given deadline for submitting the revision?

neon schooner
#

I'll get an email... soon?

#

I don't think there's a hard deadline but I wanna get smth in asap so they can push it to the public quickly

calm furnace
#

the email recieverrrr

neon schooner
#

Just finished the vod

#

Iconic game honestly

lone marten
#

I need to watch it

#

What went right and what went wrong

#

I mean characters

neon schooner
#

This script sucks. 2 demons makes the game go way too fast, and the extra wincon only makes it go faster. because of this i decided to make changes so the script goes slower and if big daddy ben doesnt like it he can just be wrong.

DzssMTvJcUKAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC.png
desert notch
#

masterpiece

mint garden
hollow jewel
neon schooner
#

yeah probably

hollow jewel
#

hm

#

7 player games are either almost completely evil or atheist

#

so you might as well execute the storyteller d1...

#

assuming evil is in play, what number of people is necessary for good to be able to win

#

oh but the zombuul doesn't learn legion so that's cool

neon schooner
#

there was a typo in the script tool, i fixed it

BSN_real.png
idle marten
#

You want to slow it down and have Zombuul /SW and legion with ceil(n/2) kpn? And gossip?

#

(Ps you need gambler/Acro/GMA/Minstrel)

neon schooner
#

Bro does not get the joke

pure dagger
#

I'd say you should take the joke too far and submit it, but alas, you have made too many replacements

neon schooner
#

I've already sent it in the finalists server so maybe that counts

pure dagger
#

They made a Discord server for the finalists?

neon schooner
#

Ya

#

As well as the official STs

#

If anyone has dinosaursatan or ascarywizard on discord send them my way pls 😭

calm furnace
neon schooner
#

Creator of show me wonders

calm furnace
#

ah

neon schooner
#

They haven't been impossible to contact... but difficult

inland plover
young loom
neon schooner
#

YIPPEE

image.png
young loom
#

YEAAAAAAH

#

SUPERNOVAE SWEEP

neon schooner
#

the lead is NOT big enough to call this a sweep but i appreciate the hype lol

#

screenshotting me being in 1st place while i know i still can

image.png
idle marten
#

BSN, more like W.I.N!

neon schooner
#

why are you me wait 😭

digital island
#

you cant be talking, you're clarke

high turretBOT
#

@obsidian hull people are talking about you

idle marten
somber mantle
#

that's not hystrex that's herstrex

#

it's hystrex if he transitioned

idle marten
#

I still have better hair

neon schooner
young loom
idle marten
#

Quick, while I am committing identity fraud, let me give a bunch of bad script opinions

young loom
#

time to minion abuse

idle marten
#

OH WAIT, nvm, I do that anyway lol

#

whoops

young loom
#

to delete all the bad takes

idle marten
gleaming hollow
#

Group D is full of bangers tho

calm furnace
#

that script is my OP

young loom
#

the rule is so good though

#

the script is a little scuffed but that's getting changed

calm furnace
#

that's the problem 😭

#

I...

young loom
#

requiem

#

look me in the eyes

#

do you not like the rule

calm furnace
#

no

#

I love the rule

neon schooner
calm furnace
#

the script

young loom
#

that's what I thought

calm furnace
#

is so

#

don't believe 6 changes can fix the problems I have with that script

young loom
#

now you go vote for The Ballad of Seat 7 as god intended

neon schooner
calm furnace
#

nah this has to be an april fools thing

young loom
calm furnace
#

the wording

neon schooner
young loom
#

oh fuck yeah

#

i'm a big fan of these changes

neon schooner
#

No idea whether there's a more recent version

calm furnace
#

what the fuck

#

Evil twin so actually omega cringe

#

Evil Twin with seat 7 as good twin just means you don't claim it

neon schooner
#

The script is made to be funny and I think it does that well

neon schooner
calm furnace
#

they can no longer provide information for the rest of the game

calm furnace
idle marten
#

That's why GT is the Grandma

neon schooner
idle marten
calm furnace
#

FG-Drunk is still cringe

idle marten
#

More than imp-mario?

calm furnace
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yyes

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Seat7 can't uphold harpy madness

idle marten
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Seat 7 Magician when?

neon schooner
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Tell this to trash, not to me

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I'm not the script writer