Binary Supernovae (World Cup Finalist)

[neon schooner]

Binary Supernovae is a Garden of Djinn World Cup finalist script featuring not one, but 2 demons! They'll have to work together to wipe out the good team as efficiently as possible, but the catch is that good only needs to find one of them. Each demon has their own strengths and weaknesses to play around, and who knows, maybe they'll even kill each other! Will the good team find a demon before it's too late?

If a Demon dies by execution, good wins. Summoner only removes 1 Demon. [+1 Demon]

[final anchor]

Tempted to try this out in livetext

[neon schooner]

you should :)

id play but i really need to get back to my hw rn 😭 if it's another time im extremely down

[final anchor]

I definitely can’t do it right now

I meant like later-ish

[neon schooner]

oh then yeah absolutely

i just realized this only has 5 non b3 characters, that wasnt even a design goal lol

it kinda comes with a concept that leans towards bmr tho

I'm just now realizing that this acronym may be unfortunate

[young loom]

bullshit

[neon schooner]

No I'm dead serious

[young loom]

you forgot the djinn rule 💀

[neon schooner]

Oh lol I did

I'll add it later

[neon schooner]

Just ran 2 games of this!! Neither were a very good example of the gimmick in action 😭

(subs: shug = clock, ojo = shab, summoner = pithag)

The ojo in game 1 was pretty socially dubious and self killed n2

The evil team was able to pull the executions away from the remaining demon pretty well

In game 2 the seamstress was summoned into the pukka on the same night they got pukka poisoned 😭 evil still won tho

The extra evil feels really strong at base 0, which isn't surprising

It didn't feel like good had no chance tho

Something I didn't expect was multiple skipped executions per game. This was mostly out of mastermind paranoia, and I'm not sure how much of that is a group thing vs a script thing

OH ALSO the innk consistently chose the imp and the mastermind 😭 the evil team almost lost to not having a safety net

They were fine tho

[knotty plaza]

from what I’m seeing, this feels like a script thing

[neon schooner]

It very much could be

I don't know how much I love that but I also don't think this script is very good without mastermind

It might make a push and pull between executing and not bc every execution matters but also mastermind

...but also on d1 of game 1 they skipped

[neon schooner]

One of my friends suggested flowergirl here and I think that's pretty interesting

On the one hand, yesses are much weaker. Balanced, even

On the other hand, nos are insanely powerful

Ojo is a good counter but I don't wanna put in a flowergirl just for it to always die immediately

(this is also coming from someone who doesn't see the vision with butler. Maybe I'm fine on voting gimmicks as is)

On an unrelated note I think I want sage on

All the demons interact differently with it

Though it only really counters imp well

[neon schooner]

Empath 2 + FT yes on both demons

Uhhh

Evil still won

Tbf the empath got a 0 n2 because pukka + xaan poison

(baron = xaan, shab = ojo, clock = shug)

The ojo hit 2 of the pukka's kills lol

I think good wasn't prepared to deal with an extra coordinated evil

This ain't no goon

I did also put a lot of town synergy on the script and then get scared of it when making the bag

Oracle is so cool here I wish it got good info ever

(xaan 2 + pukka n3)

Gotta love the exorcist selfpick n2 to detect summoner followed immediately by the assassin spending it also n2

Evil's tempo and coordination is really devastating, good needs to be super proactive and careful with executions

Watching votes is also big

This is basically a Lord of Typhon minus the downside

Like yeah there's a second target for the good team to hit

But they haven't been hitting it

And it's harder to hit it with 1 less vote voice and nom

I think the demons acting as each others' minions contributes too. Demons get nominated and then don't get many votes at all

Good also needs to be less scared to spend their dead votes

[neon schooner]

Scratch that, banshee

Good needs the votes so bad

Though, it's very possible that soldier is the only bait role that feels good for both teams against all of these demons

Also I think general would be cool here, however most of the time it would be a diet oracle so maybe I just stick with oracle

Good needs a good way to deal with an extra coordinated evil

It might be a skill issue but it's one I want to at least address a little bit

[neon schooner]

Trying to decide how I feel about punishing ojos for missing because the context is so different

I'm still leaning towards not

But it's much more reasonable than on a normal script

So far no ojo has missed... but also one of them chose ojo n2

[fringe crescent]

Banshee procs are only like half a punishment

[neon schooner]

Hmmm yeah

You have thoughts on this, can you explain more

[fringe crescent]

Also you have a demon that's fully banshee immune so letting the ojo trigger it more often isn't bad

I think ojo's normal balance point includes immunity to bait roles but this script is different

[neon schooner]

Exactly, I'm trying to figure out how different

[fringe crescent]

An active/agentic evil team can capitalize hard on a banshee proc and on a script with an inbuilt +evil even moreso, if evil teams on such a script always roll over and die to a banshee that's kinda their doing

[neon schooner]

Oh another thing to note is that the evil team gets more bluffs. I'm not sure how much overlap the bluffs should have but I do think it's better to not give the exact same 3 to both demons (so ojos miss less)

[fringe crescent]

In turn that inbuilt +evil makes triggering extra good votes more of a restoral of baseline balance

It's closer to a neutral gamestate than a goodsided one

[neon schooner]

Right

[fringe crescent]

Especially because banshee's balance is that it's still a player the demon doesn't have to kill

[neon schooner]

I should look up the rules surrounding edits lol

So I get lots of edits potentially

The lowest cap for edits while I'm still in the competition is 18 😭

I don't plan to change the evil team unless something goes incredibly wrong tho

I feel very confident there

Town is... there

You know what, I'm not gonna be running this for the competition, STs are definitely gonna punish ojos for missing

So banshee feels like a great option actually

Stuff I really want to keep:
Stuff I might wanna see go:
Stuff I want on:

SH is cool here but that's a lotta droison

So something like hatter that procs in the same cases is cool

I'm not sold on it being actual hatter tho

Bc that sounds like too much to deal with

Philo just isn't interesting here, and innk messes up the kill count in a way that doesn't help as much as I expected (as opposed to exorcist which narrows worlds)

If monk pukka worked I'd want it on... this isn't like ojo banshee right

[gleaming hollow]

hatter with spent minions will result in a lot of masterminds

[neon schooner]

Yep ur right

Ok not hatter

MM is already enough to build around here

nope I don't want more demon mobility
as discussed
extremely swingy and doesn't even have the cool interactions
it's on!
so imagine hatter if it was even worse for the script
too much droison

Well that's

hm

[gleaming hollow]

do you want an on kill outsider

[neon schooner]

I think they're cool here bc if they bait the pukka instead of another demon then they neutralize their ability

It's a reverse banshee

Ultimately it's not critical tho

[fringe crescent]

summoner script
super evilsided
needs another outsider
is this finally the spot for golem

[gleaming hollow]

when in doubt add zealot

ngl i like the butler zealot interaction

[final anchor]

Yes

[fringe crescent]

lmao

[neon schooner]

I had a golem on before 😭 😭 😭 but it's way too confirmy for xaan

[fringe crescent]

speak of the golem and he doth appear

[final anchor]

Very true

[neon schooner]

I don't but more importantly zealot is super super devastating here

-# and uninteresting

[gleaming hollow]

yeah

[fringe crescent]

I'm sure the good team and their 0.000000000001% winrate will be reassured by the finding that golem increases it

[gleaming hollow]

wait whys it so devastating

extra evil?

[fringe crescent]

yeah

[neon schooner]

Yep

[fringe crescent]

it's essentially -0.9 good votes

whereas butler is like -0.3

[gleaming hollow]

i feel like we need an outsider here that is mad they learn something new every day, or they might be executed, but can learn one actual fact

[fringe crescent]

TRUE

[neon schooner]

Oh that would be so cool

[neon schooner]

Me when outsiders aren't outsiders

[fringe crescent]

desperate times desperate measures

[neon schooner]

I guess there's some logic you can use to justify it based on arbitrary outsider counts?

[fringe crescent]

also losing a good nom is very outsidery on an inbuilt +evil script

(2 good noms most of the time even)

[gleaming hollow]

golem summoner tho

[final anchor]

There’s still another demon

[gleaming hollow]

they just win the game on d1 or d2

oh true

[neon schooner]

In a non xaan game golem is an actual outsider, in a xaan game the outsider count is arbitrary so townsiders are justified

[gleaming hollow]

i forgot the main draw of this script lol

still really rough but yeah

[neon schooner]

Yeah summoners can die early and it's not at all game ending

[neon schooner]

Hmm maybe I just talked myself back into golem

[neon schooner]

Oh absolutely

They're down a Minion ability and they're back to the normal number of evils

[final anchor]

Well, alive evils

[neon schooner]

It's just not game over by any means

[neon schooner]

Nah evils in general

Because they never got to summon

[final anchor]

Ohhhh

Yeah

True

I thought you were talking about golem nomming a minion in general

[neon schooner]

They ARE down an alive evil too

[fringe crescent]

just convince the golem to punch someone else ez

[neon schooner]

True

Ok maybe sh -> golem then

My main worry is that it hard outs xaan in base 0 games

On a script with bmr volume minions

[fringe crescent]

...at the cost of trashing a huge chunk of town's info

[neon schooner]

Yeah that's true

[fringe crescent]

Like yeah it's the weakest a xaan 1 in a base 0 is going to be but a xaan 1 in a base 0 in this info landscape is pretty brutal

(and base 0 is very evilsided for a script with this premise)

[final anchor]

Xaan 4

But I think golem works well here (legitimately not trolling)

[neon schooner]

I think it's AMAZING for this script otherwise

[final anchor]

Like I don’t think it’s too damaging with the script premise especially given it’s so evil sided

[neon schooner]

But maybe this problem isn't so bad so maybe it just goes on

[fringe crescent]

I think it works fine

[neon schooner]

Ooh I also wanted nwm

[fringe crescent]

And yeah I find golem's weird balance point of "half a solid townsfolk, half -1 good nominator" particularly interesting here

[final anchor]

I mean if the ST is adding a golem off Xaan in base 0 they’d better be balancing the rest of the bag well to match that

[neon schooner]

chef & 3 outsider bluffs 🔥 🔥 🔥

I do really like chef here, it's balanced in a completely different way from TB

It also means that minions need to hide somewhat

Demon bluffing golem then self killing the next night to frame pukka 👀 👀 👀

Mastermind also helps make golem more bluffable

And there's 2 demons to hit!!

[calm furnace]

hmm

isn't there a problem with the rule being less noms bc of the default +1 evil

[fringe crescent]

It is but as far as outsider balance goes I think it works out

Golem would be balanced at the townsfolk point if not for being really bad at being a good nominator (it's arguably still not that far behind Virgin), but that limitation is very outsidery

On paper this script seems to interact well with both halves of that

[calm furnace]

interesting

maybe

I'm not Hystrex tho

[neon schooner]

I am!!

Yeah I think this is a pretty good showcase of golem

The extra coordinated evil and the major tempo difference make golem a proper outsider

And it had a good handful of ways to be bluffable, in the same way virgin is on tb

With a spent golem, the demons might not even need to self kill 👀

[calm furnace]

wait you are?

woahh

[neon schooner]

Ikr

[final anchor]

Wow golem is going to be on the soon to be winner tournament script, clearly the best role in the game

[calm furnace]

you made quadjank

‼️

[neon schooner]

I did yes

I make good scripts and I make bad scripts, the latter of which are more memorable/actually get played

Hopefully this is a good script that gets played

[calm furnace]

I think that spent golem might be too good for evil here

like, good has to execute them

final 3 will always be spent golem, 2 demons

[neon schooner]

yeah it's an outsider lol

I doubt this script is getting to f3 often

Well I mean

It could

Actually yeah with golem it really could

[gleaming hollow]

well when you make the changes post the json

i want this script in my scripts folder

[neon schooner]

I'm more than happy to but I also expect this to change more as the cup goes on

[gleaming hollow]

sure

fair enough

[digital island]

we should play this in livetext

[calm furnace]

mm

tbh

I'm worried abt this script on lower numbers

Axo needs to run it

I think that virtually all 1 minion games probably just are evil wins on d2

[neon schooner]

I ran it at 7p (see above), it wasn't the most representative game but it wasn't a sweep

You're probably right tho lol

[young loom]

im not scheduling garden of djinn for a hot minute

would be fun tho

I'll make it an exorcist/summoner game so the exorcist can selfpick n2 to remove ambiguity 🔥🔥

[neon schooner]

https://botcscripts.com/script/6457 i plan to keep this up to date

also heres this

i changed my mind on nwm because it turns too many things into ~cops

[neon schooner]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-gif-25117042

(i just gotta figure out a single 2 hour slot where i actually know in advance that ill be free)

[final anchor]

Golem

[neon schooner]

Golem

[final anchor]

Yes

[neon schooner]

Courtier is off bc summoner

Invest is prob off but I'm still thinking about it

Potential changes:
-

• 

I'm definitely keeping exactly one of shug and invest

I don't love saint but I don't have any better options

[final anchor]

Don’t love invest here honestly

But I’m like

Generally not an invest fan

[neon schooner]

Same

I think invest is cool with these minions (showing summoner is reasonable here!!) but also xaan 1 be upon ye

[final anchor]

I forgot there were two demons 💀

That makes invest better

[neon schooner]

That's kind of the idea lol

[final anchor]

Uhhh banshee with pukka and ojo is eh

I guess with Pukka it at least knows it got pukka killed

[neon schooner]

(or assassin or xaan)

I think banshee is so essential that it's worth it

Good needs votes

Also, I feel like at least some ojos are gonna kill banshees

Occasionally it could be on purpose but more likely it'll be off a miss

Because STs are like that

And because it's more reasonable here

[final anchor]

Banshee is really good with votes

True

I mean I think for that reason alone it’s fine

[neon schooner]

It's one of:

• get the votes you need
• get good info on the game state
• get framed

Also math helps justify it

I think math ties the script together pretty well actually

Primarily because it can distinguish mastermind days from townsfolk prolonging the game

[final anchor]

Math is pretty solid here

I kind of like golem

Like

More than I always do

[neon schooner]

Insane

[young loom]

i am investigator's #1 stan here i think

[neon schooner]

Yeah I think golem is super cool here

[final anchor]

It’s an outsider here more than it usually would be but it can also swing things back into goods favor very nicely

[young loom]

like at 3 minion sometimes the assassin outs that it's not a summoner game sure

[neon schooner]

It's outsidery, it's bluffable enough

Xaan was the only reason I didn't have golem on originally but I talked myself into it

[young loom]

but esp at lower player counts it does a lot and can reasonably solve for xaan 1 since some of these minions (assassin, xaan itself) have tells

[final anchor]

Xaan golem doesn’t suck imo

[neon schooner]

You gotta jump through a hoop or two to make it work at b0 but it works

[neon schooner]

Hmmmmmm

[final anchor]

Saint is

There

I guess

Why Saint

[neon schooner]

It is

If you have a better idea I'd love to hear the case for it

[neon schooner]

It has less problems than all the other offscript outsiders

Tbh I might just suck it up and leave mc on

[final anchor]

Oh ok

Moonchild is kind of interesting here

[neon schooner]

If only goon didn't break SoI

It would be perfect

[final anchor]

Evil majority is so fun

Just add heretic, easy enough fix

[neon schooner]

Surely

Cant I just put 2 golems on

[final anchor]

Yes

Just make more djinn rules

[fringe crescent]

-2 good nominators 🔥

[final anchor]

+2 dead minions

[fringe crescent]

[All Outsiders are Golems]

[final anchor]

That’ll be me once I run Requiems Garden of Djinn script

[neon schooner]

You should put in 4 golems and a saint

[final anchor]

The clue will be [5 golems, all are drunk]

Fake clue

[final anchor]

GREAT idea

Golem would probably replace mc?

[neon schooner]

I'm not too worried about what's replacing what

I think taking off sh is a higher priority

[final anchor]

Makes sense

sh feels really damaging to me

[neon schooner]

Yeah

Too much droison

Pukka xaan is a cool amount

[final anchor]

Especially with 2 demons

[neon schooner]

Yeah

Like, it's probably a pukka game

[neon schooner]

Don't wanna lose that

[final anchor]

I think FT is pretty good here

It’s getting a yes most of the time

But Id say it works

A no is pretty great here

[neon schooner]

FT is cool but it overlaps chambermaid

Actually I should look at good's waking patterns before committing to that

There's only 4 distinct good waking patterns 😭

YSK, EN, EN*, nonwaking

There's also a lot of wakers

[neon schooner]

Okkkkkk chamber back to ft

Sorry autumn

[haughty tangle]

klutz?

i mean klutz is also a bit of a whatever outsider but i think its a lot more interesting than saint at least and its an on-death outsider which is some variety considering sweetheart and moonchild are gone

• klutz is more dangerous with the script having a guaranteed +evil every game

• fun shenanigans with e.g. a klutz confirmed player being summoned

self-killed demon bluffing klutz and picking the other demon is also a funny shenanigan

[neon schooner]

This is the biggest reason imo why not to put a klutz on

[neon schooner]

Hmmm this is true

[lone marten]

hm

I guess its the amount of wakers on here does make Chambermaid strong

[neon schooner]

Yeah

I like it with the evil team but not with the good team

It's unfortunate

I'll def keep it in mind in future edits

[lone marten]

Wats the script looking llike rigt now

Is it that different to BMR?

Lemme see

[neon schooner]

Still in flux

[neon schooner]

There are 4 good waking patterns if seam is gone 😭

[lone marten]

Grandmother YSK
Sailor EN
Exo EN*
Innkeeper EN*
Gambler EN*
Gossip Nonwake
Courtier OPG
Professor OPG
Minstrel Nonwake
Tea Lady Nonwake
Pacifist Nonwake
Fool Nonwake

[neon schooner]

Courtier and professor have different waking patterns if only slightly

N1 matters a lot tho

And opg pulls a lot of weight anyways

[lone marten]

Chef YSK
Grandmother YSK
Shug YSK
Empath EN
Fortune Teller EN
Oracle EN*
Innkeeper EN*
Gambler EN*
Exo EN*
Seamstress OPG
Philo OPG
Soldier Nonwake
Magi Nonwake

Yeah there is a lot more waking stuff than non waking

[neon schooner]

Seam and philo are almost certainly cut

[lone marten]

Right

Ok

I do agree, Chambermaid is probably too strong here

[neon schooner]

Oh and outsiders count too

[lone marten]

Great evil team

Not great good team

I do think Fortune Teller is still a bit weak

[neon schooner]

Tinker/mc nonwaking
Goon special
Lunatic mimics demon waking patterns nicely

[lone marten]

but it is so funny

and maybe with a more directed good team it will strut its stuff

[neon schooner]

here is *a* version of the script

[calm furnace]

I worry abt Invest Summoner

[prime dagger]

It's fine with the djinn rule

Since there will be another demon

[calm furnace]

Yeah

[prime dagger]

And the game wouldn't end?

[calm furnace]

I’m dumb ur right

[prime dagger]

I think mathematician is very questionable tho

[haughty tangle]

whats wrong with math

[prime dagger]

Xaan

Just destroys it

[haughty tangle]

for one night?

just like how xaan destroys all other town info for one night?

[prime dagger]

The mathematician can't detect a xaan night

Which goes against it's sole purpose imo

[haughty tangle]

its sole purpose isnt to detect misinfo

it’s a meta-information role

on this script it can also detect things like a demon hitting a soldier or an exorcist hitting the demon

which i think is cool

[prime dagger]

Sure, but I still don't think that's enough

[neon schooner]

Right but it detects everything else

And it detects mastermind by proxy which is its main function here

It can also detect a pukka decently well

[neon schooner]

Yeah exactly

[prime dagger]

Also, what is empath doing here?

[lone marten]

stronk info

[prime dagger]

Surely it's completely broken, no?

[lone marten]

Well

According to Hystrex this script is evil sided

So maybe, but for now, good might need v strong characters to deal with a whole extra demon

[neon schooner]

An empath landed between both demons, got sober info n1, and evil won with a decent lead

Empath is fine here until further notice

[haughty tangle]

i will say though that if i'm playing this script and draw the empath token and get a nonzero empath number i would be pushing on my neighbors SO HARD

whereas in a game of TB i might not be inclined to do that

[lone marten]

sure

[haughty tangle]

because the chance of hitting a demon from an evil ping is so much higher here

[neon schooner]

May I introduce you to summoner & pukka

Yeah valid point

[haughty tangle]

TB has drunk, poisoner, recluse, spy to ruin empath info

on this script its really just xaan and pukka (and pukka poison can be disproven if you dont die the following night)

[neon schooner]

This has pukka xaan summoner

[haughty tangle]

summoner too ig

[neon schooner]

It's a very different misinfoscape but it balances similarly

Summoner junks (unlike TB), pukka is poisoner with extra steps, xaan is horizontal which isn't too far off from misreg

[haughty tangle]

fair point tbh

my other personal nitpick is that xaan + empath is a bit weird because you might give empath false info on a xaan night but then if neither of their neighbors die and they get sober info the following night it can really indicate when the xaan night happens

[neon schooner]

If an empath is alive and has sober info on n3, yeah sure it's game solving. And then the imp will starpass because how else did you get to this point

[lone marten]

i think its also about time

on TB, you have more time to vote out evils

[haughty tangle]

but i will say that summoner probably does just enough for that to not be a big deal (bc of the world where an empath neighbor gets summoned)

[neon schooner]

Yeah valid

[lone marten]

Here an evil voting majority is much more potent

So yes, good can have stronger info because they have less time to act on it before its potentially too late

[haughty tangle]

that's true

[lone marten]

idk if I like that

[haughty tangle]

im voicing some concerns but i can see empath working as well

[lone marten]

It does lead to games not really going to final days

but like

[neon schooner]

Meh that's just bmrlikes

[neon schooner]

Idk how much I like it either but the judges liked it so that's what I'm leaning into

[lone marten]

its a cool looking rule

sometimes it'll play nicely

other times it's not gonna

make the most of it

[haughty tangle]

it's less of a problem at 12p and 15p specifically, and we know 12p is the preferred player count for TPI games

but yeah im definitely looking forward to watching this script get played on stream, im very curious how it turns out

[lone marten]

oh damn ye this in a 7p game is horrifying lol

[calm furnace]

This as a 7 or 13 is horrific

[lone marten]

as a 10 also horrific

Honestly, as cool as the positive death mod is, and I get that it makes the summoner 'function', it likely is really volatile

[calm furnace]

10s are horrific in general

[neon schooner]

I ran this at 15 and it was still evil sided

[lone marten]

There is an obvious conclusion here

just add zombuul /j

[neon schooner]

TRUE

It was a consideration at some point

Not one that lasted very long tho

[lone marten]

you need exe survival to make it work

[neon schooner]

Yeah well I'd put exe survival on too

[lone marten]

The long and short of it is that to make this into a zombuul friendly script, you need stuff like fool/sailor, no DA, just a Boffin

I think

[neon schooner]

But it's inherent death mod and science is too slow for this script

[lone marten]

Science is too slow?

perhaps

Stuff like science though slows the game down enough for good to not get blown out of the water

[neon schooner]

"hmm yes I will spend 2 executions on science" demons kill all good players the night after the double tap

[lone marten]

fair

I think pacifist would be the best example of good exe survival

[neon schooner]

It would

[lone marten]

Good can play as normal

But it helps shield from mistaks

[neon schooner]

I just don't think I want that dynamic here

Good needs to execute evils asap to have a chance

[lone marten]

sure

[neon schooner]

It would be interesting tho

I'm sure there's a way to make it work

[lone marten]

issue is that... all it takes is an evil with a loud convincing bluff

And it turns more into a teensy socials style script

Because you effectively need to choose 'do I go for this empath 1 or investigator seeing the summoner??'

[neon schooner]

I was thinking about this again, could you elaborate

Yes, xaan does destroy it for a night. Isn't that fine?

[prime dagger]

It's mainly xaan and there being limited reasons for it to ping off of an interaction

[neon schooner]

Only a little less than snv, though the character types are different

Notably it's the only real way to distinguish between night protection and mastermind

If there's another tf that can do that I'd totally use it but other than nonconformist info I don't think there is one

[neon schooner]

-# actually does exorcist ping math I forget

[prime dagger]

It does

[neon schooner]

Notably most games will be pukka games

[prime dagger]

I don't think math is at all script-breaking, but I don't think 5 characters that ping it is enough tbh

[neon schooner]

I mean SnV has 7 and one is pithag and another is evil twin

Meh, I guess assassin falls under that class too

[young loom]

One is klutz

[neon schooner]

ET is the one that pings it, the reminder goes on the klutz

Klutz pings math in the same way that... actually, every single character on snv does

SH can drunk anyone, philo can drunk SH

But klutz is never responsible for the malfunction of another character

[gleaming hollow]

does exorcist proc math?

is not waking considered a malfunction

[prime dagger]

The demon's ability worked abnormally.

[neon schooner]

I mean you really can argue that it didn't

The pukka still kills just fine

[young loom]

Not waking is an abnormality

it should wake, but it doesn't

[neon schooner]

So an exorcist choosing a sleeping zombuul doesn't ping math

[young loom]

if they wouldn't wake as-is and the exo picks them, it doesn't ping

nothing abnormal happened

[calm furnace]

woah

that looks sick

[neon schooner]

it does :D

all the icons have the djinn lamp somewhere in them and i love that mine is just getting blown up

[calm furnace]

grrr FUCK YOUR DJINN LAMP *explodes it*

[calm furnace]

are all of the released?

[neon schooner]

https://www.patreon.com/posts/world-cup-is-us-124122169?utm_medium=clipboard_copy&utm_source=copyLink&utm_campaign=postshare_creator&utm_content=join_link

[gleaming hollow]

i wish we could see the scripts

like some of these i’m looking at and being like “woah that’s a really cool idea” and then i’m gonna see the script and it’s gonna be like ND + Poisoner + a shit ton of info roles

but from djinn rules alone my favorite has gotta be the outsider amnesiac

[neon schooner]

In theory they'll all be fully public tomorrow

[gleaming hollow]

yeah looking forward to that

[neon schooner]

The scripts I've seen don't feel droison spammy

Like there's definitely some where you have to be careful with the bag

But it's no ND pois dense infoscape

[calm furnace]

My favorites are BSN, BoS7, and TK

[neon schooner]

I'm really excited for buyer's remorse, djinn's bargain, & show me wonders

[gleaming hollow]

oh yeah Show Me Wonders is also REALLY cool

[prime dagger]

Probably best not to use acronyms right after all 16 of them have been released lol

Is BSN this?

Presumably

[calm furnace]

Binary Supernovae, Ballad of Seat 7, Trained Killer

[gleaming hollow]

Also Stowed Away

[neon schooner]

Better than the alternative acronym lol

[neon schooner]

Quiet alhad 🔥🔥🔥

[calm furnace]

Stowed Away also fucks immensely

[neon schooner]

I read that as sucks for a sec and was gonna throw hands

[gleaming hollow]

also i already said it but This Is Not My Beautiful House sounds so fun

[calm furnace]

I really hope show me wonders has like, Po, Alhad, Legion

[gleaming hollow]

the closest we will get to Sleepwalker using official characters

[neon schooner]

Ooooh legion is very cool there

[neon schooner]

The gimmick seems really fun but the script itself looks rough around the edges rn

Fortunately there's time for edits

[calm furnace]

is TiNMBH released?

[neon schooner]

I mean there's a server with all (most) of the finalists and it's been posted there

I don't think there's any harm in posting it before tomorrow right

[calm furnace]

ah

[young loom]

Probably wait for the creator to do so I think

[neon schooner]

Yeah sure

[gleaming hollow]

wait do you know what it looks like

i haven’t seen it

oh just read above

is the server where it’s posted public

[young loom]

probably not but you could ask the creator?

[neon schooner]

Nah it's just us 16

Though it's likely that it's posted elsewhere

[gleaming hollow]

fair enough

[lone marten]

honestly, these games will be some of the heights of clocktower I hope

I think custom rules and creativity is really encouraged here

[floral arch]

Yeah, these rules are really interesting.

[patent walrus]

The scripts formed a big part of the decisions as to the 16 finalists so I hope and expect you'll like them 🙂

[gleaming hollow]

huzzah

[tame ledge]

Yeah I can safely say some of my favorite rules were spiked by their scripts in the judging process

[neon schooner]

once again here is *a* version of the script

i might run this soon we'll see

[lone marten]

I just wanna wish you luck!

Awesome idea

I hope it does well!

[neon schooner]

Ty :)

[prime dagger]

Hoping this wins!

[neon schooner]

Is fool insane here

It probably is nvm

[lone marten]

Just add Innkeeper Tea Lady and watch good dominate the game

[neon schooner]

Surely

[lone marten]

I learnt that the hard way

Evil may be able to take it tho

[neon schooner]

I'm not about to make this a DA script

[lone marten]

No no good point

Make this a Monk Innkeeper script

Monk Pukka

Wheeeeeee

How do you feel about the script

I'm on the "Fortune Teller weak" train

[prime dagger]

Are you allowed to put 2 of the same demon in online btw?

[lone marten]

Surely you can. Otherwise how would legion or village idiots work?

I'm sure there is a way to jangle a json to do that

Why was chambermaid bad again? Townsfolk not waking well enough?

Also is oracle valuable?

[fringe crescent]

Not natively, but I wouldn't be surprised if this script is hardcoded to let you

(Legion and VI are hardcoded exceptions)

[calm furnace]

are you supposed to be allowed to do that?

I thought it was always two different demons

[floral arch]

I'm pretty sure it must be 2 different Demons in setup. But can Summoner create an in-play Demon?

[neon schooner]

Definitely 2 different demons at setup, RAW the summoner can dupe the in play demon but I'm happy for STs to rule that either way

[neon schooner]

I should take banshee off, if it procs it's useful but between pukka ojo assassin xaan I don't think that's happening

Seamstress is really scary here but maybe xaan tempers it enough

I'm also a little worried about invest golem

...but maybe xaan tempers it

[fringe crescent]

let's gooooooooo

it was run as 5/1/0/2 👀

this is the first app test I've seen so far

they enjoyed it though!

person and I mentioned it's intended to be +1 evil so we'll see how that goes

[final anchor]

Think I could run this in livetext sometime soon? @neon schooner

[neon schooner]

YOOOOOOO

first good win lol

WAIT WHERE'S THE MINION 😭 😭 😭

[fringe crescent]

They didn't realize it was +1 evil

[neon schooner]

Go for it :D

[neon schooner]

Nooooo

Look I want it to not be +1 evil as much as anyone else but the minions' script presence is just so incredibly essential

Ojo self kill?

As they should

Not gonna question how the moonchild self killed

Ran it irl!! Drunk = golem, shab = ojo, baron = xaan

I am very convinced by golem here

The imp found the unspent seamstress on n2, the invest learned assassin, and the ojo missed on the innk and after some deliberation I killed the magician

Golem was the "better" kill I think but she was unspent and I wanted both the script and my group to see golem in action

Good had a real chance but the golem punch sealed it for evil

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1307130818593951864/1349539295970459689/8B1WdPxDmYwAAAABJRU5ErkJggg.png?ex=67d377e9&is=67d22669&hm=6dc617a03269de3f10f9cc7783b36c45e89554f8043c3bc002bcb7e45b8a9e58&

This is the version I ran

Neither demon bluffed outsider :( empath and gambler were reasonably strong tho

[neon schooner]

Exorcist should be dead, they got golem punched

[final anchor]

Ok might make a scheduled, it won’t rack bc it isn’t Bewing but one can dream

Also I love golem here 😌

[prime dagger]

!json

[desert narwhal]

Please attach a script image.

[neon schooner]

Me too genuinely

It's so outsidery

And very whimsical

[neon schooner]

I have been thinking about fool

A lot

I think I do want it actually

• detects pukka/xaan/assassin
• pings math
• confirmation if the good team needs it
• more bluffable than virgin on TB
• another reason for a golem to fail

[lone marten]

Slows game down confirmed good virgin core

[neon schooner]

Exactly

It's not like it's doing both of those in one game but it can do both of those

[lone marten]

Is the script evil sided?

[neon schooner]

Very

[lone marten]

Yee

I heard from others that evil struggle but I don't believe that that much

Like 1 chat on the app

[neon schooner]

Good really needs 1 more execution and slayer feels highly dubious so I guess we gotta slow the game down instead

[neon schooner]

Is this from the game where they were down a minion

[lone marten]

No

[neon schooner]

Or was there another game(s) I don't know about 👀

[lone marten]

But they may have specced the game

It was just casual convo

[neon schooner]

Ah ok

[lone marten]

What Townsfolk are you least sold on?

I have some I'm not in theory sold on

[neon schooner]

Prob grandma, it speeds up the game in a way that isn't that interesting and xaan is a choice

[neon schooner]

Which ones 👀

[lone marten]

True grandma is one i didn't expect but ye

[neon schooner]

I could see myself putting lib or ww on instead of grandma

Or just not

[lone marten]

Well I have talked about FT esp in smaller games just getting a lot of yeses.

If game ends on Demon execution then oracle both feels kinda slow and unlikely to go up (I know it combos well eit the idea esp with Demon night deaths and mastermind, but idk how much it does)

[calm furnace]

Slayer doesn't seem good here

if I think someone is the demon, I would genuinely rather not use my ability and execute them

[neon schooner]

I haven't had an oracle live long enough to know 😭

[lone marten]

My point

Oracle seems easy to mess up with xaan, has limited time to get info when everyone is dying, and learning that the player you just killed was good might be too late

[neon schooner]

could we make flowergirl work? it needs something more than imp to junk or otherwise invalidate a no, but there's a good chunk of misinfo here 👀

instead of ft

[lone marten]

I've mentioned that flowergirl is yes simulator

[neon schooner]

it is

but i dont want to just not have a demon finder

not here

[final anchor]

I don’t think there’s an amazing demon finder for this script but FT feels better to me

[neon schooner]

sc would be great if it didnt suck

[final anchor]

SC here is so awful

The new SC just outs the other demon and wins instantly

[calm furnace]

I think the problem is that demon finders

are balanced off finding one person

[neon schooner]

ok wait in the world where i remove ft & oracle, what takes their place? i really want 4-5 continued info roles bc good needs the synergy with game slowers and it's not like they're about to rely on science

[neon schooner]

this is true

[calm furnace]

savant amne frfr (savant is real, amne is probably a bad idea)

[final anchor]

Amne is just filler

Not much point

[neon schooner]

yeah i dont want amne lol

not a fan of nonconformists in comp scripts yk

not my beautiful house does it well, this would not

[lone marten]

God I hate what I have become when suggesting script

Fisherman

[neon schooner]

lol

elaborate

[lone marten]

Advice is punchy

Something you can follow

[neon schooner]

seamstress is punchier i think

well

[lone marten]

Works well with Xaan

[neon schooner]

maybe both

[calm furnace]

6/16

but fair

[lone marten]

If you hear a lot of outsider claims, use it ealy

If you don't, maybe hold it

Issue is that OPGs will usually use it as early as possible bc evetulne around them is dying

[neon schooner]

savant is a cool idea but like what do i tell it lol

[final anchor]

Those scripts are likely more designed for their nonconformists, binary supernovae is NOT

[neon schooner]

there arent a ton of shenanigans

"more demons live than outsiders" 😭

[lone marten]

Why did we not want chambermaid?

[neon schooner]

doesnt do anything

actually thats worth reevaluating

bc it was dependent on the waking patterns of good

[lone marten]

I'm p sure it rules out Demon candidates

Bc demons wake

[neon schooner]

there are fewer wakers

[lone marten]

And you're thinking about fool

[neon schooner]

ya

[lone marten]

Obviously there is only one solution to make thos script balanced

And interesting with chambermaid

[neon schooner]

[lone marten]

You have pukka an EN demon

You have Imp an EN* Demon

Complete the trifecta by adding Yaggababble, a YSK demon

[neon schooner]

yea totally

[final anchor]

And Legion, who doesn’t wake at all

It would be balanced

[lone marten]

But ye Yagg is inherently balanced tho maybe a bit feels bad

Ojo does a similar thing

[neon schooner]

yeah not a fan of yagga

i want choosing demons

where all the choices feel distinct

[lone marten]

Ye

[neon schooner]

at this point i think i wanna tidy up the rest of the script and then evaluate ft vs cm and prob end up with cm

[lone marten]

It's more that I realised Yagga can definitely work in theory here so I floated it

[neon schooner]

it prob can, i just dont think it's interesting

i suppose it makes golem more bluffable but idt thats needed lol

[lone marten]

It's interesting with CM and it could be a way for players to find demons. And if yagga wants to gamble with 3 kills then you can choose how good they are

Same for ojo arb tho

[neon schooner]

im only giving an ojo a multikill if they really need it and it was clearly intentional

and it doesnt hide mastermind

this is a 2 x 1kpn script

we dont need more kills

[lone marten]

Ye

You could have both FT and CM. FT is the best Demon finder of the options we have, I just think it's weak

In theory tho there is a 66% chance your yes is a Demon

Btw

What inspired this djinn rule

What lead to this?

[neon schooner]

zombuul, believe it or not

i saw zombuul and was like "woah it's so cool how it changes what death means in terms of eliminating demon candidates, and then kills on pace with that rather than 1kpn"

[lone marten]

Mmmm

[neon schooner]

and then i wondered if i could make my own homebrew demon that does the same thing but with a different kill rate and a different modification to what an execution means

[lone marten]

Oh inverse zombuul?

Coool

[neon schooner]

and then i made this homebrew

after trying a handful of djinnlegger rules, this one was the rule i felt i could build something good with

[lone marten]

What other rules did you mess around with?

[neon schooner]

in the beardy short (which comes out soon) i just said the homebrew part for time

[lone marten]

Coool

[neon schooner]

imagine 2 scripts called the river styx made it in

[lone marten]

Pff

[calm furnace]

tbh I rly liked this one

[neon schooner]

i do think it's cool

idk that i can make it shine tho

[calm furnace]

this rule is unnesc mean to good I fear

[neon schooner]

yeah that was another example of my copy pasting one of my homebrews into a djinnlegger rule

but it didnt work quite as well lol

possibly out:
possibly in:
(relative to the original version)

oh wait fish

i dont think theres something i can reasonably sub for fish

[calm furnace]

how is fool bluffable?

[lone marten]

fish isn't necessary and as I'e said

It's not meant to be

[calm furnace]

(it's fine if the answer is it isn't)

[lone marten]

It's meant to be the virfool

[calm furnace]

oki

[neon schooner]

yea ok

[lone marten]

But also you can always bluff pukka poisoned

[neon schooner]

yeah it's a confirmation role among other things

[calm furnace]

that feels too easy?

[neon schooner]

negatives are very bluffable

[lone marten]

Hystrex I'm also was gonna say

About fisherman

Fisherman fits everywhere, and is good everywhere

[neon schooner]

i disagree but go on

[lone marten]

The worst thing you can do with fish is use it in place of another character which fits better

[neon schooner]

got it lol

[lone marten]

Because its so easy to put on scripts

[calm furnace]

like

be me
draw ojo
claim fool
get executed day 1
mm day
I was clearly pukka poisoned d1, that's why only one dead
evil wins

[prime dagger]

Chambermaid is cool

[neon schooner]

yeah sure

[calm furnace]

Dylan, fish-vortox is interesting

[lone marten]

Ye

[prime dagger]

2 of the minions don't wake tho

[calm furnace]

this feels trivially easy

[neon schooner]

fish vortox needs a homebrew ruling to work 😭

[lone marten]

nah

[calm furnace]

n-no?

iirc Fish is on project

[lone marten]

Fish Vortox gives false, unhelpful advice

[prime dagger]

It's probably fine

[neon schooner]

that's what math and oracle are for

[calm furnace]

you jsut give unhelpful advice

[calm furnace]

oh based

[lone marten]

Math doesn't solve it tbf!

Oracle might

[neon schooner]

why wouldnt it

[prime dagger]

It's one of the 5 roles that don't completely break with vortox

[lone marten]

ohh ye

[neon schooner]

if that's a fool math+1, if not then math+0

[lone marten]

ye

i thought about it the wrong way round

[calm furnace]

might want to unpin this

[neon schooner]

done

[prime dagger]

Golem + saint feels bad?

[neon schooner]

saint is off lol

[prime dagger]

Golem is now a TF lol

Gotcha

[lone marten]

golem isn't

on a script where there are so many deaths

[neon schooner]

i caved and went with klutz instead, then went back to moonchild because if golem and mc wanna cancel each other out that's 2 free kills for evil

[lone marten]

ye the balance point here is

Good jsut don't have much time

[neon schooner]

golem was quite outsidery yesterday if nothing else

[lone marten]

If evil is loud enough

Then they can snowball

It's also why I like hedging on Lord of Typhon scripts

Because +1 evil can snowball

in a pretty big way

same here

[prime dagger]

Add a toymaker 😎

[lone marten]

based ngl

[neon schooner]

wait thats so funny

[lone marten]

seriously though...

er,

[neon schooner]

i guess tm would only apply to one demon???

*fabled toymaker

[surreal condor]

Toymaker

The Demon may choose not to attack & must do this at least once per game. Evil players get normal starting info.

[lone marten]

The Demon

[neon schooner]

yeah 1

[lone marten]

I think they are both 'The Demon'

[prime dagger]

It could be unclear tbh

oops

[neon schooner]

guess so

i remembered that definition wrong, maybe because of barber

[lone marten]

So

wait

if you do want to nerf evil

lol it could really work

Poor exorcist tho ngl

[neon schooner]

poor poor exorcist

[lone marten]

but at the same time... some eggs need to be broken

if this is the path for a more balanced script

Then so be it

[neon schooner]

what a wacky path tho

[lone marten]

tiny Binary Supernovae

Ye

But...

If you already know its crazy

Like evil is very favoured

[neon schooner]

this comp is made to experiment 🔥

uhhh, i do wanna see this script run (correctly) in a meta that isnt my irl group

[lone marten]

see how it does

[neon schooner]

before something as big as toymaker

[lone marten]

Toymaker MM goes crazy

[neon schooner]

oh shoot

[prime dagger]

I can schedule a livetext

[neon schooner]

wait i dont like that

[lone marten]

(I do think MM is super strong on this script)

[neon schooner]

yeah mm doesnt need a buff

[lone marten]

ye

similar things can already be achieved tho

Just by demon sinking

Its just the demons have to sink sometimes

If skipping some days to attack just to mimic MM days is optimal, then it would be done

This is just forcing them to do that

While before its an option

[prime dagger]

Skipping a kill is suddenly the optimal version of sinking

Idk if I like MM having a buff either tbh

With 2 demons that can cover eachother

[lone marten]

i'm asking whether or not its a buff

players can already do the fake mastermind play by sinking attacks, at least on imp

others I can see your point

[neon schooner]

Pukka can't 👀

Not as well anyway

[final anchor]

Golem and investigator feel good here

[neon schooner]

I'm worried that they synergize but it's maybe fine

[prime dagger]

Good need the help I think

[neon schooner]

You know, golem smashing minions is a little counterproductive here bc you gotta be executing evils constantly because of mastermind

Obviously it's nice to kill minions

[lone marten]

Can good even execute evils constantly

[neon schooner]

I mean that's the strategy

In practice they haven't been

But mastermind is harder to detect here so "uhh just kill evil players I guess"

[prime dagger]

@neon schooner do you have a JSON for this?

[neon schooner]

The script is so incredibly in flux that I haven't made one for any version besides the original

I can tho

Do you want the most up to date version currently in my head

[prime dagger]

Sure!

[neon schooner]

Also is there any time sensitivity bc if not I'm gonna see if I can get the image in the json as well

[prime dagger]

Nope, take your time 🙂

[neon schooner]

ok that wasnt hard at all lol

[neon schooner]

scrip

[neon schooner]

current

[prime dagger]

I quite liked FT, but I think I see why you removed it

[neon schooner]

i mean it's not so different from cm

i like both

but theres more nonwakers now and the evil waking patterns are really interesting so cm

[lone marten]

I have been on the anti FT train

Maybe I was too harsh

[neon schooner]

lol

i mean, it's not set in stone

[lone marten]

Yee

[final anchor]

Oooh yeah CM is cool with this evil team

And is kind of a demon finder because all the demons will wake

[lone marten]

I agree CM is cool!

Summoner CM is interesting

[neon schooner]

2 YSK
4 EN
4 EN*
1 OPG
6 Nonwakers

1 EN
2 EN*
1 OPG*
1 Summoner
2 Nonwakers

could be better

but it's enough to justify cm

[prime dagger]

The CM isn't getting much info anyways, so it should be fine

[neon schooner]

well i want them to get better info

[gleaming hollow]

oh just saw fool got added here

watch out for hard confirmation with summoner

basically fool has to not get tapped during either nights or days 1 and 2 to be confirmed here

same thing with golem but golem is an outsider so that’s fine

[lone marten]

True

Arguably it does help achieve a longer game

[gleaming hollow]

ehhhhhhh it’s such a minor alteration with 2 demons

doesn’t really outweigh drawbacks

[neon schooner]

I mean the idea isn't really to tap the fool to confirm

It's an option

But it's mostly "survive death or restrict worlds when you don't"

[neon schooner]

Is monk pukka really that bad in context

Like just ojo snipe the monk if it matters

[young loom]

the summoned double pukka in question:

[neon schooner]

Just don't summon double pukka

[young loom]

but droison!!!

[neon schooner]

what if oracle -> general

they serve similar purposes here but maybe gen pulls it off better

that does open up the infoscape somewhat because it's no longer hard info

but thats prob fine

[neon schooner]

fun game!! we had a chance but it wasnt that close
seam spent on me & uk n1, uk chose me & red n1 (pukka'd yes), farrin died gambling the chef-turned-imp, innk got exe'd immediately, i chose the gambler (the only player i outed to) and then the seam, oracle got all true info
2 more votes on jason would've done it

also hystrex app saga no way

[final anchor]

Good will win the next one! (Probably not lol)

[neon schooner]

apparently good has won!!! i dont know of an actual record of that tho

[fringe crescent]

Yeah there was apparently a game that 'should be' recorded of good winning but we couldn't find the records in question

[neon schooner]

one direction i could go

here's another

and like they can be off by a few characters

[young loom]

Summoner/PM is a whole thing

because if the puzzledrunk player gets summoned you just kinda cry

[neon schooner]

right thats why i was thinking sh in this version

forgor

[fringe crescent]

I mean, on this script

[neon schooner]

you still cry

just less

[fringe crescent]

evil can probably deal with some mild crying

[young loom]

It's not gameending but it's still not a good interaction

[neon schooner]

fun is still more important than balance imo

like, golem is not there for balance reasons. i think it's actually more damaging than it needs to be

[young loom]

it's specifically to appeal to pebbles

[neon schooner]

hey im also a golem enjoyer

not to the same extent ofc

golem is like marionette in that it works nowhere 🔥

but when it works it's great :D

[neon schooner]

notably these have a lot of swaps and im limited

man why does bmr have execution survival, i just want a tea lady or something but without the hassle

[neon schooner]

Summoner got herself executed d1 and won

I've been thinking about philo more

I think with the right town it'll work

The choice between info & protection is interesting

But when there's invest and grandma on script they're a little centralizing

n3 chef is extremely cool tho

[calm furnace]

doesn’t this sort of counter the point of “demons can’t kill themselves bc town will judge crush them”

[neon schooner]

?

[calm furnace]

The surrogate demon died d1 and the solo demon was able to win anyway

[young loom]

demons killing themselves to eliminate a target is intended though?

[neon schooner]

Yeah it's very intended

[young loom]

who told you demons couldn't kill themselves 😭

[neon schooner]

I do also think that this town was weak in context because there's no info to synergize with the protection

So it was low power v low power (if only a little)

Philo magi was strong tho

I've gotten mixed comments on magician

Some people say it works really well with the djinnlegger and others say it's useless with the djinnlegger

[calm furnace]

not that they couldn't that they shouldn't

[neon schooner]

.

That stream played out more or less like a normal game but with the threat of 2 demons

[neon schooner]

I'm now considering Drunk instead of puzzlemaster/sh

But the one minion that would support that is baron

I don't think OM demons are viable here

In a 7p baron game there are 2 Townsfolk

Which is

Not ideal

Godfather drunk can work but it's a little oppressive

Especially in context

[prime dagger]

I think MM may need to go ngl

It is so powerful in theory

[neon schooner]

Hmmmmmmmmm

MM feels core, I'm not sure this script concept works well without it

SW would be fine but this is the wording I went with so it's not

ET is definitely a no

[neon schooner]

Full pool of roles for the script:

Core good characters shortlist:
( or )

(the evil team is barely fluid)

[calm furnace]

20 tf, 8 outsiders, 5 minions, 3 demons facinating

[neon schooner]

Yeah no this is a pool not a script

The script is some subset of the pool

Which subset is still in the air somewhat

[calm furnace]

oh yeah 100%

[neon schooner]

Xaan gives another reason besides exactly pukka for info to be bad/etc. But it also means that a third of the info is bad, which is an overcorrection

It also carries the outsider mod