the game state is invalid
the rambunctious recluse:
#A Waltz with Insanity
prime vault
nah uh i'll just show the summoner there
and yes i know about investigator summoner, if there's a script for it it's this one
ET viz is purely a skill issue
slim yarrow
Summoner will almost certainly get reworked to prevent drunk demons imo
prime vault
yeah makes sense
wiz boffin ET can all genuinely deal with a puzzledrunk demon
maybe not in every circumstance, but they can
sage minnow
Not here
prime vault
Oh I just remembered I really wanted artist back on this
Do I really have to swap out oracle
prime vault
extra rules:
- an unproven vizier cannot win by being executed. Much like psychopath, if a player is coerced into forcing an execution, it won't count
- summoned LM becomes an out-of-play evil minion of the summoner's choice. An alchemist summoner who chooses LM only creates LM without changing anyone's character or alignment
- a vizier holding the LM also can't win by being executed
- until they act, the summoner registers as the Demon to the Puzzlemaster. if a puzzledrunk player is summoned, another player is drunk instead
just codifying a change i made in my head a while ago 
-> 
sage minnow
where'd you put imp
prime vault
<:djinn:586693970357387284> extra rules:
- an unproven vizier cannot win by bein...
LM does its job but better
also i needed space for wizard
prime vault
look if the script tool could fit it i'd put 30 characters on
sage minnow
wizard is like you putting pithag here
prime vault
read the homebrew jinx
prime vault
wait mastermind would be really funny here
heretic makes sinking to bluff mm viable 👁️👁️
i could also attempt lleech but quilava kinda did that already and i dont wanna make our scripts tooooo similar
sage minnow
don't
imp is better than lil monsta (yes I know it's the dark triad I don't care it's cool)
(only because vizier)
prime vault
i also think "anything is possible" is more interesting than "oh yeah anyone's character could change lol"
like, the character changing is through jank
wiz is there for its infinite bluffspace more than anything
sage minnow
i mean you could do neither
you already have athiest
I think wizard will break your players
sage minnow
I thought the goal was vizier being fun
prime vault
actually
"too much" is not the right way of saying that
"too much" is definitely the goal
"undercooked" is maybe what im looking for
prime vault
I thought the goal was vizier being fun
that's a byproduct tbh (but an important one)
yeah wait actually
wiz is funny here but it's anti jank
i got excited when it came out
it works here but that's not really what i'm going for is it
prime vault
undercooked
id rather hatter be an extra evil than pd yk
it's not out of the question tho
prime vault
i think rn my options are 
not a huge fan of any of them
id bootleg jinx vig mm
wait no summoner riot
welp, it was a cool thought
if i go no dashii
i could get rid of puzzlemaster
boff alch summoning a good nd would be a genuinely strong play
prime vault
i looked at it then remembered what else was on script
if there's a script for lot viz, this is it. there is also not a script for lot viz
(maybe if there was no ET it'd be better but also like cmon)
i kinda like dashii here actually
it makes it not a droisonless script (barring boffin ofc) while keeping it so that every bluff possible is potent
barber isnt so useful in lm but i think i go with that anyways
wait a sec barber heretic is really funny
sage minnow
oh no
prime vault
and fits the script vibe so well
jank!!!!
i already have boff rk + heretic
this is on the exact same level
actually no it's the same except it's loud
prime vault
extra rules:
- an unproven vizier cannot win by being executed. Much like psychopath, if a player is coerced into forcing an execution, it won't count
- summoned LM becomes an out-of-play evil minion of the summoner's choice. An alchemist summoner who chooses LM only creates LM without changing anyone's character or alignment
- a vizier holding the LM also can't win by being executed
only 10 jinxes
hmmm artist is prob less justified with wiz gone actually
meh, the good team prob needs it
sage minnow
artist is so shenaniganized it's balanced
prime vault
and it's only really useful after d3 because there's like 3 ways for a summon to happen
sage minnow
because remember, savant is better if no one knows what's going on
prime vault
i mean yeah that's how artist is balanced on snv
have you noticed that this evil team has been shifting towards just being snv lol
sage minnow
artist is still pressured to just ask "is the demon on X side of grim"
prime vault
yeah but they wont be for long lol
sage minnow
on SNV
prime vault
still true
sage minnow
eh
prime vault
maybe less true tho
sage minnow
i love how the only 2 people that work on this are me and you
and likewise for that levi heretic script
this script has history
sage minnow
yes
shadow siren
id bootleg jinx vig mm
I've developed reason to believe recently that from TPI's perspective this is one of those "do what works for your group :)))))))))))))))" things and we accidentally all cargo culted an incompatibility into existence
(in that I stumbled upon an obscure archive that more or less says this)
anyway this is why "do what works for your group" is bad actually
shadow siren
if there's a script for lot viz, this is it. there is also not a script for lot ...
just tell the fisherman who the demon is it's fine
prime vault
I've developed reason to believe recently that from TPI's perspective this is on...
Oh I know but some jinxes exist for clarity anyway
prime vault
Hmmmm do I ditch amne
Just to get rid of all the nonconformists
Actually wait no I still have atheist what am I talking about
vagrant blade
Just to get rid of all the nonconformists
wdym bro [+0-5 evil heretics] is a great for this script
prime vault
TRUE
thick jay
Demon-Boffin-Alch-Evil Twin-Heretic 🗣️ 🔥
sage minnow
Evil twin seeing heretic is a requirement
slim yarrow
If heretic is executed, that's a good team win
So it's rly powerful for good ironically
sage minnow
If heretic is executed, that's a good team win
they have to kill the right one d1 or lose
it's like shitty matsuraid
slim yarrow
True one night ultimate clocktower 🔥
prime vault
No guys
We do this and then we have summoner twins elsewhere as well
Just summon the heretic ez
prime vault
Why would I do that
crisp bramble
JANK 🗣️ 🔥
prime vault
Yeah true
prime vault
I wonder how many other people see the vision behind levi tl virgin minstrel
crisp bramble
is definitely an interaction
also like
vigor doesnt really fit with those minions
prime vault
preacher-et
Just bluff preacher ez
prime vault
Vigor is good with Boffin, it's good with viz here, it's workable with summoner and it helps justify et
prime vault
(it's good with viz bc that's a strong vigorkill that doesn't actually out demon type)
crisp bramble
GET OUT OF MY WALLS
prime vault
Yeah see now you get it
prime vault
Yeah that was the whole script concept
crisp bramble
also
no funny character that works with boffin fangu
like
no plague doctor
no SH
prime vault
I'm sorry there's literally hatter and barber what more do you want from me
prime vault
And ravenkeeper to find the heretic
crisp bramble
barber doesnt
because the new the demon will be like "I don't know who I was jumped by or anything at all" ☹️
prime vault
There's also alch viz, again vigorkilled vizier is bluffable
crisp bramble
And ravenkeeper to find the heretic
🔥
prime vault
There's philo and even pixie to dupe those
crisp bramble
hystrex
prime vault
And amne can do essentially the same stuff
prime vault
Doesn't actually work bc of the boffin heretic jinx
prime vault
This is a base script (quadjank) interaction
crisp bramble
prime vault
The demon cannot have the heretic ability
crisp bramble
bootleg that interaction
what happens if engi creates a summoner and a demon is in play?
olive raptor
why stop at 13?
crisp bramble
I count mez cycle as the same source
prime vault
Oh ok
crisp bramble
but yeah, no mez cycling
prime vault
You can prob get 3 extra evils on awwi with no nonconformists
Because you're on a timer
crisp bramble
it's funny how
Even if the Politician solves the game
It HAS to turn evil
1 player good team ---> you will always be the player who contributed the most to your team losing
prime vault
N1 engineer summoner, n2 hatter back into summoner, n3 summon a fang gu
Maybe you can fit one more in actually
prime vault
Mhm
prime vault
What if I swapped oracle for cannibal
prime vault
extra rules:
- an unproven vizier cannot win by being executed. Much like psychopath, if a player is coerced into forcing an execution, it won't count
- summoned LM becomes an out-of-play evil minion of the summoner's choice. An alchemist summoner who chooses LM only creates LM without changing anyone's character or alignment
- a vizier holding the LM also can't win by being executed
slim yarrow
Down to 10 jinxes 🥳
prime vault
yippee
im gonna try to figure out how to display those + the extra jinxes neatly on the back page
i wanna print this and commit the crime of running it
prime vault
vague grove
if summoner creates a fang gu, can they jump or does SOI block it
wooden lagoon
if summoner creates a fang gu, can they jump or does SOI block it
no because Summoner isn't an extra evil
vague grove
i see thanks!
wooden lagoon
what’s the 
jinx?
prime vault
It's the preacher jinx with some extra rules
wicked badger
It's the preacher jinx with some extra rules
I love a five way jinx 😭
prime vault
:3
golden crest
incredible
I do want to try this sometime but the group I'm running for isn't one for heretic scripts
prime vault
Oh valid
wicked badger
Im genuinely so surprised livetext hasn’t played this yet
prime vault
Fair warning: waltz is merely a concept. Actually playing/running it is a crime. And a crime that I will be committing
prime vault
Im genuinely so surprised livetext hasn’t played this yet
Mayhaps we can change that
brittle spire
what happens if engi creates a summoner and a demon is in play?
why would u create summoner
prime vault
Blank token if it's post summon
prime vault
They were both 1 minion games and they were both hellish to run
As they should be
Tbf I made an amne ability that resembled mathematician (that almost got solved!!)
sage minnow
They were both 1 minion games and they were both hellish to run
Where grims
prime vault
You know what I mean
sage minnow
Yes I know
prime vault
Game 1
There are enough enough reminder tokens for this script 😭 note to self to grab a bunch of blank tokens before running
MM = boffin, pithag = summoner, sh = hatter
The heretic outed to the fang gu d1 so she jumped as soon as she could. First to the philo drunk pixie savant (she was bluffing savant), then to the hatter. She boff rk'd the heretic and the app viz slammed the new demon
This was... the simple game
Game 2
Amne ability: each night, learn how many gained abilities are currently active
The artist confirmed the amne and pixie as good then got executed
The philo went atheist n2 and basically what I went with was "the atheist wincon is turned on and I don't have the brainpower to do anything else with this on top of everything else"
Then the philo got excecuted
And it all went downhill
olive raptor
The artist confirmed the amne and pixie as good then got executed
maximum entropy 
summoner 
prime vault
Let's go through the amne numbers
- alch viz: +1
- philo atheist (works when dead): +1
- canni philo invest (seeing recluse and alch as viz): +2
- pixie philo canni philo artist: +4 except no it's not bc she was summoned into the boffin that night so boff savant: +1
The canni was philo drunk for about 10 seconds
Anyways the heretic hid for long enough to get executed in f3
I never want to run this script again (me when I lie)
olive raptor
big if true (small)
prime vault
See req this is how the logic works
wooden lagoon
See req this is how the logic works
grr
also like
how'd you know I'd look here 😭
wooden lagoon
Axo said your thing that's it lol
so if I said small if false (big) that works?
prime vault
Yeah
(but also like say your thing lol, don't bother about what's technically correct)
wooden lagoon
(but also like say your thing lol, don't bother about what's technically correct...
oh I am anyway
I was abt to do a bit like that :3
prime vault
Big if true (true)
olive raptor
oh I am anyway
Big if true (big)
prime vault
Hi waffles
wicked badger
Hi
wooden lagoon
hi
wicked badger
I've been lurking here for a while :3
(I kinda want to play this)
olive raptor
next week scheduled livetext same time as today?
prime vault
It's an experience
prime vault
Hi guys!! I think this script is a little too complicated. I've swapped out a character or two to make it more beginner friendly. Hope you enjoy!
wicked badger
Hi guys!! I think this script is a little too complicated. I've swapped out a ch...
Poisoner on a custom???
prime vault
Yeah I should take it off nvm
wooden lagoon
Hi guys!! I think this script is a little too complicated. I've swapped out a ch...
Scarlet Woman is redundant with Imp
prime vault
True
vagrant blade
Hi guys!! I think this script is a little too complicated. I've swapped out a ch...
needs Big Barnacle
prime vault
Nah that's too well designed for a script like this
vague grove
virgin is hard confirmed if it procs??? needs boffin
prime vault
Ran waltz again today
Grim pic has names so I won't post as is but tbh it's not that important
As I was introducing the script: "this is far more advanced than anyone here's skill level but we're gonna play it anyway"
After going over the jinxes: "this is too advanced for y'all but it's fine"
As night 1 began: "this is too complex but we'll see how this goes"
Day 1: a player voted on me when there was a vizier announcement
No heretic btw
Also the engineer made a summoner n1
loud basin
Doesn’t that just end up making more demons
prime vault
Yeah
He just choose summoner and it was a LM game, I made the Boffin into the summoner and removed LM but in hindsight removing LM is probably incorrect
If it was some other demon could/would you make the demon into the summoner
If the answer is no it can still be fine bc of the summoner hatter jinx
wicked badger
Doesn’t that just end up making more demons
binary supernovae reference :O
brittle lotus
Peak
prime vault
Alright well it didn't affect this game in particular
brittle spire
good players making the worst out of their characters belike:
prime vault
He wanted to be summoned
brittle spire
i mean why
prime vault
Funy
brittle spire
🤔
prime vault
None of us care about winning all that much
brittle spire
trying to lose is still a horrible thing 😭
prime vault
Well no they were both gonna end the game evil
prime vault
Well yeah but they didn't anticipate that
wicked badger
The whole script is questionable
prime vault
Wait why is that the questionable part
prime vault
The whole script is questionable
This is also true
brittle spire
cuz you can have outsider working for evil and get starpassed before final
prime vault
Ok
brittle spire
it's counterable in ways, such as outsider not outing or evil doing this to an outsider without having FG
but the sole existence of this thing is horrifying
prime vault
Wait I don't understand the problem
loud basin
Ohhh like have a good player vote for vizier to slam a bunch and then have them get FG jumped
prime vault
Ohhh
brittle spire
outsider vote for vizier, FG starpass when that outsider is only living good
loud basin
Basically an outsider playing for evil and controlling every execution
brittle spire
It happened, not in this script, but in another FG + vizier script
prime vault
Uhhh get better players idk /j
brittle spire
ok but ehh
prime vault
(it's a joke)
brittle spire
yeah i guess that's a nice solution
prime vault
Doesn't heretic throw a massive wrench in that
brittle spire
yes but also
sage minnow
Doesn't heretic throw a massive wrench in that
Gets jumped to
brittle spire
using solely heretic to balance extremely tilted interactions is very questionable
prime vault
Gets jumped to
Great, the other outsider knows enough to easily solve the game
prime vault
using solely heretic to balance extremely tilted interactions is very questionab...
Well ok a recluse can't use that strat either
Good has viziers too
They can get rid of the vizier
brittle spire
wait how does good have vizier
prime vault
Like, they can definitely get rid of the vizier
prime vault
wait how does good have vizier
Alch
loud basin
Isn’t this a quadjank-like
prime vault
It is
sage minnow
Oh Hystrex
loud basin
So ye good easily gets rid of the vizier
sage minnow
Hatter just votes for every vizier
prime vault
They can get rid of the fang gu too
sage minnow
Literally no matter what
prime vault
Wdym
brittle spire
i guess so
sage minnow
No they’d be dead
prime vault
I see the problem with viz fg now... I also coincidentally think this script does a good job of dealing with it
sage minnow
This is a script about having an immortal demon
prime vault
This is a script about a lot of things
brittle spire
this is a bad script
loud basin
I kind of like that it gives viz something else to do
Vizier needs all the help it can get
prime vault
~~this is a bad script~~
I don't think anyone's gonna disagree there
brittle spire
Vizier needs all the help it can get
problem is that the helps are jinxed
loud basin
Everything is jinxed it balances out
prime vault
This is a script that has a clear vision and it accomplishes that vision well. The problem is that the vision is being A Waltz with Insanity
brittle spire
Hi guys!! I think this script is a little too complicated. I've swapped out a ch...
i still prefer this revised version
prime vault
Fun fact alchemist has a weird interaction with every single minion. 2 are jinxed, reprompted alch viz looks like it failing which needs to be explained, and alch et shows up as et not alch which needs to be explained
prime vault
i still prefer this revised version
Even in alphabetical order??
olive raptor
no dashii is a thrall
prime vault
#livetext-game message
prime vault
no dashii is a thrall
i couldve bluffed alch viz, this is a skill issue on my end/j
yeah it is
thats fair
olive raptor
unannounced alch viz
sage minnow
no dashii is a thrall
(If you are in a lazy evil team)
prime vault
<:djinn:586693970357387284> extra rules:
- an unproven vizier cannot win by bein...
@warm rivet welcome to the hell that I've created
Boffin can make an immortal demon easily
Among many other things
warm rivet
Boffin here can...
Pixie
Preacher (not useful)
Savant
Engineer
Philo
Artist
Alch ET / Summoner / Boffin (not rly useful) / Viz
Cannibal
Amne
FG can get RK
Pixie / Philo / Cannibal are dependent on the usefulness of other abilities
The Boffin Alch options are interesting
Oh also Boffin Recluse is semi useful depending on ST and FG can also get Hatter (worse Engi) and Barber (not all that useful, somehow)
RK, Artist, and Savant give evil info on a script where they don't seem itching for it but it's still nice
prime vault
Boffin can also get investigator to hide the Vizier
It can simulate a vigorkilled vizier in a fang gu game or announce the recluse as the vizier
warm rivet
Boffin can also get investigator to hide the Vizier
oh true
prime vault
You can even make a recluse-barber or recluse-hatter
prime vault
:3
wispy sierra
oh boy
tranquil salmon
does waltz need both hatter and barber?
prime vault
actually without dashii maybe barber is less necessary
id say lunatic can come back but that sounds worse than it's worth
tranquil salmon
hermit lunatic heretic 💀
golden crest
yesssss
prime vault
and if they die the evil team gets a hatter ping
so theyre just confirmed hermit but only to evil
tranquil salmon
oh fuck yeah because the demon knows they're the lunatic and the hatter
prime vault
mhm
golden crest
and the barber!
prime vault
i do think theres some shenanigans to be done with barber
among other things the evil team can get an artist question 👀
which is maybe. too strong. but this script was never made to be balanced
tranquil salmon
actually yeah in current vers the demon confirms a hermit because they get to both hatter and barberswap
golden crest
yea I think the hermit renders this unplayable
tranquil salmon
i think one of barber/hatter has to go
prime vault
mannnn
wispy sierra
nah, its fine there's still two heretic abilities in play
prime vault
yea I think the hermit renders this unplayable
have you been paying attention? this was never playable
but i do want the illusion of playability
tranquil salmon
i do agree with you that balloonist probably becomes necessary for goodsided +o mod
prime vault
yeah but thats good game design
lemme mess with things
oh wait i can literally have 14 townsfolk
i dont need to replace barber
tranquil salmon
yeah i was gonna say 14th tf works esp with atheist
prime vault
the evil team should definitely be bluffing atheist a lot of the time but it's ok atheist is a demon
?
tranquil salmon
you've made GCS but where a game with an evil team is equally enjoyable as one without
prime vault
whats gcs again
tranquil salmon
gary cooper, sheriff
tranquil salmon
the zombuul duplication one
prime vault
you've made GCS but where a game with an evil team is equally enjoyable as one w...
yeah because neither are fun 🔥
oh i know what gary cooper is
tranquil salmon
yeah because neither are fun 🔥
precisely
prime vault
i just dont usually abbreviate it
tranquil salmon
im lazy
prime vault
real
prime vault
?
anyways probably locking this in
neither of fang gu and vigor are strictly needed for outsider mod anymore 🔥
tranquil salmon
-# alternatively for goodsided +omod you could do huntsman+damsel
tranquil salmon
(i was shitposting)
prime vault
heretic is here so that an immortal demon is weak, remember
(ik)
ok gtg but later i will have an updated backside of the script
tranquil salmon
if you did want to remove a tf you could consider pixie? idk the specific considerations behind all of these choices but the other ones i dont know are essential are RK, SC, and amne and SC and amne are too silly to leave
prime vault
Everything you've mentioned is core except amne which is too silly to leave
Ability duplication is pretty core
tranquil salmon
understood
prime vault
How else am I supposed to have 5 heretic abilities in play
prime vault
prime vault
remote dirge
gonna be real with ya
this is the best thing i've laid my eyes upoj
i wish to run it with 32 fabled
remote dirge
i'm thinking about what jinxes to add or change
hm...
there's like
so many terrible jank in here
it is very lovely though
tranquil salmon
you're so right, this is the real problem plaguing waltz
grizzled helm
surprised that recluse is in this script over lunatic
grizzled helm
tragic
prime vault
Lunatic is the honorary 26th character
remote dirge
13~15 lil monsta has no legal setups?
isn’t this true for all Summoner/LM Ravenswood Bluff scripts
ig no
wait ...
oh i see why
prime vault
Yeah no it is true