#Enforcing age requirement

61 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

jade dune
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I feel like it's important to mention that 13+ age requirement is in the discord terms of service and breaking that rule means you shouldn't have a discord account in the first place. While, yes the moderators on this server should keep an eye out for it, this is something you can/should report to discord as well.

solar light
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It's something that we handle whenever it comes up, but we can't act on something we don't know about!

midnight rose
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Yeah this is a ticket disguised as a suggestion.

lament musk
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That's a fair point. I was just putting it out there because I heard complaints

limpid isle
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I wrote a whole wall of text and didn't send it, it should still be on my PC at home. If not I'll retype...

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-remindme 6h age suggestion thing

abstract hornetBOT
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Set a reminder in 6 hours from now (<t:1726111822:f>)
View reminders with the reminders command

abstract hornetBOT
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Reminder for @limpid isle

Reminder from YAGPDB

age suggestion thing

limpid isle
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Basically, we have never set an age limit ourselves, but as a Community Server we're expected to report under-13's to Discord to be removed, as that's the legal requirement on them, headquartered as they are in the US. Their minimum requirement is that anyone who confesses to being under-13 in a text message should be reported (by right-clicking or long-pressing on the message, choosing Report Message, then Something else (you may have to scroll down), then This person is too young to use Discord). You can do this yourself (even in DMs, where we can't reach), report them to a moderator (via DMs or a ticket) for us to do, or both at your discretion. Please do one of these things if you see someone say they're under-13 in any text channel on the server!

Reporting users who admit being under-13 in a voice chat is trickier. especially as we strongly discourage recording audio (the legality of doing so varies WILDLY) and there's no good method of reporting voice chats to Discord. Most likely we'd only take action if a moderator actually hears the user say they're under-13, and even then they aren't likely to lose their Discord account, only access to this server.

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If they're under-13 but not dumb enough to freely admit it, the law pretty much lands on "they said they were 13 when they signed up, you have no proof they aren't, no need to do anything". Banning someone for "sounding young" or "acting young" is just asking for trouble - they could have a high-pitched voice, be slower than average to start puberty, be a trans person with a voice that doesn't match their gender, or just have a speech impediment. "Witch-hunting" for underage users is even more problematic - if we get reports of a user going around asking people if they're under 13, we're going to react strongly, and "no I'm not a perv I was just checking for kids under 13 for uhhhhhhh legal reasons" will not be a defense. (Legally speaking, you've solicited personal info from a minor, which violates exactly the law that establishes the age limit in the first place.)

All that said, I hope this helps you understand where we're coming from, and if you still have any questions or concerns, feel free to @ me here to get my attention again or open a ticket to discuss with the mod team.

uncut marlin
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IMO this server should simply be 18+, for multiple reasons.

viscid silo
mint prism
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seconding nexus- why?

celest fulcrum
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https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/age-of-majority-by-country

Why not 9 the legal age of majority in Iran. Or 10 where people can be criminally liable in Australia. How about 15 as per Indonesia. 20 as per Japan and New Zealands standards or even 21 to agree with Singapore and Egypt?

You can try to approximate maturity with age, but there will always be a bell curve as unique individuals, or we can all use common sense that if people act in a way that is good and decent, we can just enjoy playing a social deduction game online without pretending it's anything more than that.

hexed rain
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I'd be pretty opposed to raising the age limit -- this server is a first access point to online clocktower resources for many people, putting up barriers to it would feel quite bad.

uncut marlin
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Why in the world did you even bring that up?

slender pilot
valid rain
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When I played in live games a lot I've heard mature jokes and discussions pretty often so it would probably make sense to clarify that this is a child-friendly server somewhere in the rules?

celest fulcrum
uncut marlin
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Yes, I did see the page you linked to. It is one thing to mention that in some countries the majority age is 19 or 20 instead of 18. But why do go out of your way to say "why not 9 the legal age of majority in Iran"? I don't want to put words in your mouth, so I'm asking you to clarify it.

mint prism
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i’m still very curious the reasons for why you believe the server should be 18+

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could you elaborate

celest fulcrum
slender pilot
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my interpretation of arguments already stated for 13+

  • So that the server’s resources can be accessible to anyone who wishes to get into Clocktower (within Discord’s limitations as a platform)
  • Playing nicely with others in social deduction requires some level of maturity, but some 13 year olds might have that level of maturity and some 18+ year olds might not

my interpretation of arguments already stated for 18+

  • Some game discussions get into mature territories that young teens and adults shouldn’t really be discussing together online. NSFW has never been allowed here to my knowledge but there is plenty of room to be clearer and stricter with that rule
viscid silo
uncut marlin
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The game itself isn't necessarily inappropriate for minors, and an IRL setting people can set certain expectations. E.g. in my group one of the members has brought along his teenage kid. But if a 14yo showed up out of nowhere, we'd ask if they were accompanied by a guardian.
In any case, the group will naturally self police language/behaviour if a minor is present.

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But in an online, semi-anonymous setting there are loads of potential problems. Especially in a server this large.

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The self policing above doesn't work because the group as whole doesn't even know each others' ages.

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So there's the issue Marya mentioned, for example.

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But it can get much worse, as mods surely know.

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As an example on how other platforms deal with this in a responsible way, without preventing kids from playing, see Chess.com.

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Of course, I'm not proposing a similar solution. Chess.com is a for-profit company, and they have enough resources and staff to run essentially a separate site.

uncut marlin
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Besides, chess is a traditional game, it is associated with improved outcomes in education, and all top players started at a young age. So it's really important that kids have access to online chess (at least from the point of view of the chess community)

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That's not the case for botc. Again, it's not that the game is "bad" for kids, but it is a game that involves lying and manipulation (even if in a fictional setting), the theme often touches mature subjects (see above), and it's not like the world will be a poorer place if a teenager isn't allowed to play on this server.

viscid silo
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Does that mean Mafia also needs an age limit?

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Pretty sure a lotta kids play Mafia

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It has death, manipulation and lying

uncut marlin
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I wrote 4 paragraphs and your take away is "botc needs an age limit"?

uncut marlin
# celest fulcrum Because I think it's important to highlight the wide variety of opinions. There'...

There's a wide variety of ages that are deemed acceptable.
Bruh.
I was trying to interpret your original comment charitably. Age of majority can mean a lot of things, just because in a country 13yo can be criminally liable it doesn't mean they can do anything a 18yo can, like driving a car or getting married. So maybe you didn't know what "9 is the legal of majority in Iran" meant. But I posted what it means. It means literal child marriage is legal.
So doubling down on it as if it's "just different opinions" is a terrible take.

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Your bell curve sure has a very wide standard deviation.

fallen herald
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at least from my experience this place has helped a lot with mental health and actually getting my life in order. Its a quite broad community that helps quite a bit with mental problems, something that is quite common for people who get into social deduction games.

so personally don't like the idea of increasing an age limit, but agree that keeping to the 13 year age limit feels important to uphold...

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i think 18 is a quite logical limit to put as this server is quite based in a world that uses it as a limit, so if another limit is to be discussed believe it to be a logical starting point even though I myself dont support it.

mighty field
fallen herald
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i dont think the issue is processing... at least thats not the points that have been brought up

uncut marlin
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While I do feel strongly about it, I probably should start a new thread since (in hindsight) my comment derailed the discussion Parrot intended to start.

mint prism
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though i see your point-- thank you for the thoughtful rundown!--, i disagree that the benefits outweigh the drawbacks for making the server 18+. there's nothing (as of what i know) on this server that are especially mature, beyond anything a teenager would encounter in your average high school (mature jokes, lots of swearing, etc.- speaking from personal experience). the lying and manipulation in this game is not particularly heavy, either. there is an argument for "all social media should be 18+", which i do actually agree with mostly, due to there often being predators online and some bullying and harrassment (which are obviously not good for a child's mental health or safety), but that's not specific to this server. i just don't see the need here for a ban. additionally, that's a lot of work for the mods to enforce this limit and it would also involve banning many many minor members of this server that are already here and enjoying what the server has to offer. *edited for clarity*

mint prism
uncut marlin
astral lodge
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Unsure where I stand on it myself opinion wise but I can 100% understand all of Kamekura's points

mint prism
uncut marlin
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It's definitely not specific to this server. But that's not a good reason to not take action about it on this server.

mint prism
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(sorry i'm a little drained from the day, i've got no stinking idea whether that's logicking or not but like didn't want to just leave this discussion ghosted 😂 )

uncut marlin
mint prism
uncut marlin
limpid isle
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I feel like "we're worried about early teens getting creeped on, so we're forcing them to leave the highly public Community server with two different dedicated teams of people (mods and minions) keeping them safe and a built in reporting system for problems and instead join whatever random small server they can find and hope for the best" is counter productive to keeping teens safe. 😦

Speaking of the server gaining users slower, about 10 percent of our users most weeks come from Server Discovery, which we'd forfeit if we went 18+. We also give up our Community status, which might cause more safety-conscious users not to join from other avenues, since Community servers are actively monitored by Discord to make sure we meet certain minimum safety standards.

-# I don't particularly mind the server growing slower - I feel like we need to just constantly recruit mods to keep up with the exploding server population as it is - but since it was mentioned, figured I'd provide statistics.

midnight rose