Clockwork Cyborg

[fast maple]

tbh I'd love OG here

[sudden tendon]

idk I haven't seen enough xaans I think

[supple patio]

xaan is a risk with arbitrary outsiders but so is godfather

[fast maple]

build some widow (cere scarlet) pm Xaan (2) bags and see how fucked up good gets

[sudden tendon]

I like og here for several reasons but it's too divisive a role for me to want to put it on my Script That Got Big

[dapper carbon]

Xaan has the gf problem except it swings way way more

[sudden tendon]

But yeah re. tc I want a minionfinder on here and tc is a lot better than invest
Oracle is sort of also a minionfinder, dreamer is sort of also a minionfinder
Noble is sort of also a minionfinder (let's be real) and it makes the info landscape a bit more frontloaded without murdering the kazali immediately but I like being able to build around both demon pings and minion pings

TC is also one of the roles that poli functionally misregisters to which I like

Though poli in noble pings is cool

[noble folio]

what about Shugenja or Empath?

[sudden tendon]

Shugenja was here for a couple versions and I noticed I wanted to droison it every game

[noble folio]

ah, alright

alternatively: Balloonist / Chambermaid

[fluid tulip]

Is evil twin that bad?

[fast maple]

Oooh balloonist is fun

I worry a bit about Chambermaid potentially having overlap with FT but at a glance the waking patterns are fun

Balloonist with hidden outsiders is always a plus

[fluid tulip]

Where is the current version of the script

[tired heron]

^

[sudden tendon]

I've finally admitted that I need to replace Godfather

I'm trying to find a replacement and work out knock-on effects

[fluid tulip]

In that it doesn't do enough?

[fluid tulip]

I think Organ Grinder just is a bit miserable online but is fairly cool otherwise. Of course the Minions on this script can be pretty varied and flexible bc the Outsider mod is linked to the Demon!

Is xaan too much w Widow?

Is it kinda bad with kaz?

[fast maple]

My instinct is yes

For both

The thing I like about GF on this script is that it incentivizes outsider bluffs and makes them way scarier to chop into

[fluid tulip]

I also notice that GF is a quieter minion which hides Scarlet Woman well

The issue w evil twin is that there isn't enough misinfo to support it

Assassin is fine

I think getting rid of an execution or skipping f4 for an unwary team is strong

[fast maple]

Assassin is loud to the point where I think it probably either stabs the banshee it saw on the widowgrim or just holds it to f4

Because a doublekill narrows worlds so much

to the point where the juice might not be worth the squeeze?

[fluid tulip]

Yee

Organ Grinder is similar

It can spend the whole game being quiet and framing SW before a big reveal

[drifting quail]

xaan?

idk that's the first thing i thought of

[fluid tulip]

xaan is probably too strong

You can't balance a bag around a xaan 1 for example

And kazali might get unlucky and pull the dreaded xaan 0

[long glen]

Hmm, tricky to replace GF with the current minions available

Would it be reasonable to assume MC is also going?

I mean, you could just add a spy lol

[fluid tulip]

I was thinking but it has quite the overlap with widow :P

[long glen]

Wdym? Double the grimpeeker = double the power?!

Reasonable tho

[fluid tulip]

I honestly do think Organ Grinder works here. It's main weakness of giving away outsider count doesn't exist here.

[long glen]

But it's also organ grinder 😭

[fluid tulip]

ye

[long glen]

maybe a DA

[fluid tulip]

No

[long glen]

But DA + SW is a bit much

[fluid tulip]

DA+Scarlet Woman is asking for trouble.

And DA just isn't as cool here as on BMR.

If a Minion is a shadow of its self compared to a base script, I don't think its a good fit.

[crisp trout]

https://tenor.com/view/deepfriedwoomy-gif-20893284

[crisp trout]

MC as solo death mod here is actually fine as it’s intended to be considered a TF on this script

[narrow moth]

As someone who has only run with OG in person, what makes it worse online?

[fluid tulip]

Ok, so you are in the middle of a vote

Everyone is speaking with a slight delay bc thats how online communication works.

Also imagine that when Organ Grinder was released, the unofficial app didn't have a clean way to implement it

result - a very chaotic and not very fun release for organ grinder

[narrow moth]

What about now tho, unless you are saying it is mostly just lingering first impressions?

[supple patio]

how did votes work back then? did people just close their eyes and pinky promise?

[fluid tulip]

It's difficult to put on scripts (I think this script is kinda one of the best homes for it) meaning it's really underutilised by script makers

[fluid tulip]

Well this was when I was still using .online but you DM votes

[fluid tulip]

Well also ye, it's quite a loud Minion and it's hard to put on any script

I don't mind playing an Organ Grinder script

But I am sure that I have suggested to some to take off organ grinder bc it's such a loud effect that confirms outsider count (like putting it on a script where Minions do the Outsider mod isn't ideal).

Which is most scripts

Bc it's hard to build with, not many scripts with it are made

So ye, first impressions are more powerful on something which doesn't make it onto scripts

[noble folio]

if you add an Organ Grinder to a script, it usually turns into an Organ Grinder script, regardless of what it was before

I don't think CC is a good Organ Grinder script

[narrow moth]

Does adding any character X to a script not make it a X script, or do you believe OG has an outsized influence on a script?

[noble folio]

Organ Grinder is much more of a script centerpiece than, say, Washerwoman, for example. like Legion, Atheist or Wizard

[fluid tulip]

well sadly there isn't much else that works that well?

[noble folio]

I mean, personally, I really like Goblin or Assassin instead of GF on the script

[dapper carbon]

Part of me wants assassin and part of me thinks it's utter garbage here

Like

[fluid tulip]

goblin is alright. Good definitely can solve the goblin

[dapper carbon]

An assassin can't cook

It can cook on BMR in a way that totally throws off town

As well as on a lot of other scripts

[fluid tulip]

ye assassin here isn't as interesting as it could be

[dapper carbon]

This doesn't have real death mod

So the assassin can't hide, and deaths don't have other things that they also mean

[fluid tulip]

ye

I do get vati's worry that Goblin might be too easily solvable

Still giving a chance for your chaotic teammate to just be a goblin is fun

[fast maple]

i'd argue the other way around, actually

it's tc/alsaahir/dreamer that help w that?

hmm savant ft general all do too

ok never mind

[fluid tulip]

Fortune Teller, Town Crier, Dreamer, Alsaahir

Savant, ye, General ye

Goblin is interesting, but this town can distinguish it

[fast maple]

goblin definitely fills a different niche than gf

[fluid tulip]

And in many ways

[dapper carbon]

I don't think this is a problem?

Savant also notably doesn't have to

[fluid tulip]

I think its better than good having nothing to distinguish it

And for a Kazali script it p much ensures good probably has some way to figure it out

[dapper carbon]

Wasn't PD the actual problem

[fluid tulip]

ah ye

that is a gut point

[fast maple]

oh yeah someone unsolvably having the goblin ability

or the goblin having the sw ability

[dapper carbon]

Swerenovus 👍
Swoblin 👎

[fast maple]

"has the goblin ability but isn't the goblin" - those detectors are just savant/amne/alsaahir right

[fluid tulip]

Is plague doctor core?

I think you gotta break some eggs

[fast maple]

it's a safety net that isn't barber

because barber is absolutely too destructive

[dapper carbon]

Goblin is a pseudo safety net

[fast maple]

sw/goblin is just a lot though

[dapper carbon]

Yeah

[fast maple]

if you aren't exactly speedy nights it's so so rough

tbh i really see the vision for godfather here so it's tough to suggest a replacement

[dapper carbon]

I see the vision with gf however it's a character that needs its setup text to work

[fluid tulip]

I get it but sometimes experience wins out over intuition

[fast maple]

what experience? nobody actually picked it :P

[fluid tulip]

arguably half of godfather's effect is that you're not executng outsiders

[dapper carbon]

(that's the experience)

[fluid tulip]

but it does mean that it looks like you do a whole lot of nothing

ye

also that

[dapper carbon]

Perception of characters matters disproportionately more in kazali, and even more in solo kazali

[fast maple]

that's fair

[fluid tulip]

it's a shame that it does get picked kinda rarely. maybe if people picked it it'd be cool

[fast maple]

just rolling grims at 15p, godfather feels really really good as a pick from the grim tool

[fluid tulip]

or maybe it's telling that no one is bothering

[fast maple]

but i get that in lower playercounts you basically always would rather have a witch

esp since the bag balancing is a little different at high playercounts compared to low ones, plus that it's dependent on how many base outsiders you have to begin with

(in a 13p game i'm never picking gf since the average amount of outsiders post-setup is 1; i can get way more than 1 witchkill in a 13p game)

did we discuss if Boomdandy worked here? I remember it coming up

[fluid tulip]

is that not kinda similar

[fast maple]

ah, right, boomdandy with pd-scarlet

[fluid tulip]

to goblin

ye

[fast maple]

in my experience with boomdandy vs goblin it's less of a safety net since good wins boomdandy countdowns reasonably often

[fluid tulip]

just add saint

[fast maple]

like even on d1

[fluid tulip]

replace pd with saint. Now you have a mini safety net (the saint bluff)

[fast maple]

(also i like the pd/boomdandy jinx 🙈)

notably this isn't an actual safety net

[fluid tulip]

no it's not

but it is usually a big discourager

can't get much worse than 'lose the game'

[sudden tendon]

It's pretty core

It obscures between semi-loud minion abilities and serves as a safety net in games without a starting scarlet, and it's an outsider with reasons to live and interesting consequences to bluff

[fluid tulip]

yee

[fluid tulip]

To be fair maybe Godfatehr is just the type of thing to try out from time to time

It might even work

As in, Godfather does have an indirect effect (making Outsider claims less appealing to execute) which might not directly be seen

[fossil tiger]

chat

is Evil Twin the move :3

It’s the same metaniche of Godfather but better

[sudden tendon]

It's incredibly funny, I can't deny that

It calls to me from the void

scarlet/twin is incredibly tanky, may or may not be an issue in practice

[fossil tiger]

a smart kazali can utilize a good ET play

widow poisoned TC bullshit amne “twin solver”

my one worry is that if a Kazali makes someone they don’t know an ET they’re kindof a dick

[sudden tendon]

twin/damsel is a painful interaction in the wrong group but just be very clear on what guesses you consider valid, maybe not enough though because the good twin is still socially obvious (different to psycho or vizier that way)

[fossil tiger]

I mean Vizier is an interesting minion too I think

it’s one I might pick a bit
-# def doesn’t have a strange attachment to 🅱️izier

[sudden tendon]

this script feels very tight these days, if I try pare it down to "roles that don't feel, with released roles, that they could ever be removed" I get...most of the script

pixie and damsel became core very quickly

[graceful seal]

why name change

[sudden tendon]

not a name change

I wanted a pun for "the roles the script will ~always have"

(there are unreleased roles I think would work here and can swap some of these)

||Coachman|| would go extremely hard

[sudden tendon]

vizier also calls to me from the void

every group has a Vizier Guy so it gets picked sometimes

and it helps with the script being evilsided 😎

TC is a thing but it's less big a deal than psycho because you don't pick vizier just to poison the tc

[crisp trout]

did the update happen

[sudden tendon]

no we're working on it

[crisp trout]

#1 boomdandy supporter

[sudden tendon]

just considered the implications of vizier/pd-scarlet and they're super funny I think

[crisp trout]

i think that might be unfun

but it does make vizier stronger

although consider alsaahir

[sudden tendon]

oh yeah

[crisp trout]

the jinx doesn’t really do much with loudish minions and solo demon

[sudden tendon]

"guess the demon type too" but it's a solo demon script

viz is always a bit of a thrall though

if you're picking viz it's not to maximize winrate it's because one of your friends wants to be the vizier

[crisp trout]

uh sure ig

[sudden tendon]

but yeah hm

[crisp trout]

it just feels really wacky on this script

[sudden tendon]

addison suggests "just having four minions"

which

I guess

[crisp trout]

it does play more into the kazali meta tho which is cool

[fluid tulip]

No it's never twin ino

Imo

Too little misonfo

Tbf with no TC it might be better

[crisp trout]

boomdandy!!!

[odd field]

at that point you may as well keep godfather if there isnt a good replacement

[fossil tiger]

I don’t like this as an option becuase like 13/6/5/1 is so iconic

in a way that 13/6/4/1 isn’t

[sudden tendon]

agreed

[crisp lagoon]

Add imp

[noble folio]

This is one step away from "add Heretic"

[dense sluice]

Or one step closer to “get TPI to release another Minion for CC”’😎

[noble folio]

maybe vati could fit The Big Barnacle on CC?

https://tenor.com/view/a-man-can-dream-though-sigh-futurama-professor-farnsworth-gif-14501112

[sudden tendon]

Turns out the answer to "what's the secret behind ||Ringmaster||" is Kazali

(I am not adding that)

[sudden tendon]

Turning over a lot of ideas in my head and a weird thing that keeps coming up is how many minions serve to disincentivize executions

If there's one thing that's a minor issue on this script that I don't think is resolvable with the premise, it's the intersection of:

1. d1 is somewhat aimless because Kazali works with "stretched-out" info landscapes, and that means there aren't strong early evil pings to work with unless the seam got lucky (and I don't want to strongly incentivize good player executions out of #2)
2. It is bizarrely hard for town to kill into minions because kazali socials break many of the ways town identifies minion candidates, so disproportionately many games get banshee-saved or have 2 evil f3s

I like a lot about Boomdandy here but I don't like its interactions with those -- it makes it very hard for town to kill into evil pings, or to kill at all

Psycho similarly is cool in a lot of ways but one of the things it does is tank executions

Psycho can also "just kill the banshee" like Assassin can but this generally implies widow/psycho which lol

[crisp trout]

is banshee core?

because farmer could be wacky and zany

[sudden tendon]

Evil can kill a known banshee but they're leaving a known farmer to rot every time

[crisp trout]

fair nuff

wait why would evil kill a banshee

i still don’t get that

[sudden tendon]

+2 evil votes

[crisp trout]

oh if the banshee is tunneling

sure

[sudden tendon]

banshee is the one bait role you can proc on purpose because you can make it work for you

[crisp trout]

well just widow poison the farmer and fake a strawpass 😎

[sudden tendon]

you can kinda proc rk on purpose but it's riskier

also a banshee dying is probably voting on the guy with the widow ping lol

(this is why I don't like giving widow pings to bait roles, it feels obvious but it cuts off a lot of evil's strategy space)

[crisp trout]

i would say that assassin killing the banshee confirms the assassin but when the only deathmod is assassin and MC that’s not really that necessary

[sudden tendon]

also a lot of the time evil's hand is just forced

[fossil tiger]

Assassin is interesting

in forcing executions on 4

and removing problems but also like

[sudden tendon]

if you're the demon on the f4 night and the last living [non-poli] good is the banshee you usually have to kill that banshee

which is intended and also based

[fossil tiger]

this has happened a lot >:(

[sudden tendon]

other bait roles can't do this

[sudden tendon]

just kill the banshee earlier so you can build up trust with them :)

[fossil tiger]

unless a very commonly picked minion was picked

[crisp trout]

well if boomdandy is a nono then i support assassin

the banshee thing is annoying tho

[fossil tiger]

in which case that doesn't matter at all

[sudden tendon]

yeah assassin is a no because of that

[crisp trout]

fair

what about

[fossil tiger]

so then why is Cerenovus here?

[sudden tendon]

there are still often better things to do as the living cere in f3

[crisp trout]

boffin 😎😎😎

[sudden tendon]

I like boffin

boffin amne is funny

[fossil tiger]

I said this

but Dire disagrees lemme find it

[crisp trout]

wait yeah can i see the tf suite again i forgor

[fossil tiger]

I have won all evil final 3s bc I maddened the banshee

[crisp trout]

wait ok yeah boffin might cook here

[sudden tendon]

yeah this has happened at least 3 times

[crisp trout]

moonchild is actually fakeable

but very hard to do, needs SW

[crisp trout]

silent PM

[sudden tendon]

conveniently scarlet is popular 😎

[sudden tendon]

"boffin amne is unsolvable" run better boffin amnes

also

consider

recluse boffin amne

[crisp trout]

librarian, general, dreamer, Savant, amne, and banshee are all good boffin TF abilities

[fossil tiger]

librarian, dreeamer and savant aren't

they are just worse Widow

[crisp trout]

also since kazali can custom pick their team they can do cool synergies with Boffin SW

[crisp trout]

no widow ping goes out

[fossil tiger]

the devious self poisoning widow:

[crisp trout]

and you get another minion

eh fair on that

although it doesn’t drunk a damsel

but you shouldn’t give a librarian or dreamer ability in a damsel game lmao

[sudden tendon]

boffin lib poli 🔥

[crisp trout]

ok so boffin absolutely cooks here in the best way possible

[fossil tiger]

eh I think that there aren't enough good abilities

[crisp trout]

4/6 of the outsiders are also good boffin abilities provided you have a scarlet for 2 of them

[crisp trout]

i heavily disagree

[sudden tendon]

and damsel is a good recluse boffin ability

[fossil tiger]

librarian, general, dreamer, Savant, amne, and banshee

[crisp trout]

also savant can be way more than a grim peeker here

[fossil tiger]

banshee barely counts

[crisp trout]

general is great

[fossil tiger]

I don'tagree

[sudden tendon]

also a sufficiently insane and unintended reading of the jinx might permit giving the recluse boffin poli

[crisp trout]

PD Moonchild Recluse PM

[fossil tiger]

Recluse is cringe I think'

PM is worse Widow

[crisp trout]

hermit at home

[fossil tiger]

Moonchild and PD just needs SW

[crisp trout]

but the widow ping doesn’t go out

[fossil tiger]

the humble selfpoisoning widow:

but also like

[tired heron]

that doesnt poison anyone

[crisp trout]

but then there can’t be a poisoned player

[fossil tiger]

sure

[crisp trout]

yeah lmao

[fossil tiger]

widow pings barely matter

[sudden tendon]

anyway I really see the boffin vision I think

[crisp trout]

the humble team customizing kazali:

[sudden tendon]

it's just whether it has enough to not be widow

[supple patio]

oh? boff?

[fossil tiger]

exactly

[supple patio]

i haven't backread at all what's goin on here?

[fossil tiger]

so the boffin can't be given pre-made boffin abilities

[tired heron]

discussing replacing GF with boffin

[crisp trout]

boffin SW team plays are not possible with a widow

[fossil tiger]

@floral moon u wanna talk more on boffin being bad here :3

[tired heron]

req thinks its too similar to widow and doesnt have enough good abilities

everyone else is arguing against req

[sudden tendon]

I finally admitted that no one except me sees the vision for godfather but all other minions are even worse so we're finding the least bad one

[crisp trout]

decide the boffin ability after the kaz picks 100%

[fossil tiger]

yes I agree

[supple patio]

organ grinder gang tbh

[sudden tendon]

kenoboi will never play it again

[supple patio]

buuuuuuut i like boffin always everyewhere

except tb

[crisp trout]

so if they pick Boffin SW you can do some cool on death synergies

[crisp trout]

https://tenor.com/view/troll-gif-26178840

[floral moon]

the only roles that let it do something that widow doesnt are recluse and amnesiac

[crisp trout]

i agree with requiem that specifically Dreamer Boffin is worse than widow

everything else i see a vision for

[sudden tendon]

I think this being a kazali script with a damn widow on it means every available minion option out of the ones not currently on the script is going to have some issues just because widow does unusually many things

[crisp trout]

even librarian since (provided you don’t SHOW the damsel), this allows a damsel to be sober and in play with some level of grim peeking

[floral moon]

evil twin trust

smh

[fossil tiger]

I think that I liked boffin but your arguements have convinced me its nto that good tbh (your = kenoboi)

[fossil tiger]

I said this

[sudden tendon]

I'm happy with the issues boffin has

compared to e.g. the issues boomdandy or assassin have

[floral moon]

boffin only really opens up boffin puzzledrunk tbh, which is a bit of a mess tbh

[crisp trout]

???

[floral moon]

and recluse and amne

otherwise widow can do everything i think

[sudden tendon]

it's an option, I like it less than boffin

[crisp trout]

Librarian General Savant Amne Recluse, and with SW, Banshee Moonchild and Plague Doctor

[fossil tiger]

If I'm boffin general I'm mad

[crisp trout]

also don’t even forget all the recluse boffin shenanigans

[fossil tiger]

I don't believe Boffin general is ever good

[floral moon]

yeah i know, its pretty good

[supple patio]

actually i got boffin general as the al-had once

[crisp trout]

yeah boffin general is amazing

you get ST insight into who’s winning

[sudden tendon]

I think this is just a philosophical disagreement

[supple patio]

when i made my choices and got told "good is winning" i'd be like "shit, fuck, dammit!!!! guh..... how could it have ended up like this........"

[sudden tendon]

I like it and it's on both the good boffin scripts

[crisp trout]

the amount of times i thought i was cooked and needed to starpass only to discover i was the most trusted player on the grim

or vice versa

[fossil tiger]

I have never been evil and been surprised at the general info

evil players generally know whos winning

[sudden tendon]

("both the good boffin scripts" being Final Nail and Ride the Cyclone)

[supple patio]

and then when i made my choices and got told "evil is winng" i'd be like "heh.... looks like i'm back in the game after all........ time to cross this finish line!!!!!"

[crisp trout]

see above

[fossil tiger]

how many was that?

[crisp trout]

more than 1

[supple patio]

2...

[floral moon]

plague doctor doesnt feel like a valid choice at all tbh when you can just pick a better minion :3

[sudden tendon]

The ST will know exactly what ability the evil team needs at that point which is big

[crisp trout]

immortal minion tho

[floral moon]

delayed tho

[crisp trout]

that too

[floral moon]

you cant have the early cerelocks and witch snipes and widow poisons

[sudden tendon]

scarlet is the strongest minion on here but pd scarlet is stronger than it

[crisp trout]

N2 pseudo-starpass 😎

[floral moon]

smh why kill myself when i can kill the fortune teller

[crisp trout]

…for a cool PD ability

and social cred or something

also everyone knows there’s no FT, they always get kaz turned 100% of the time on this script

[fossil tiger]

this is such a rare occurance that I do not think that this is like a good arguement

[sudden tendon]

anyway this is hilarious and I'm going to use this tortured interpretation now

[crisp trout]

it’s just an example of evil team not knowing who is or is not socially trusted

[crisp trout]

why wouldn’t it be allowed

[sudden tendon]

from the ST seat this happens constantly

[fossil tiger]

skill issue? I think it's very usually clear who's socially trusted

idk

[crisp trout]

the intention of it is so the demon doesn’t just auto win with good

[crisp trout]

if your argument is skill issue i think we should have the boffin

[sudden tendon]

the jinx prohibits "the demon" from having the ability but if you reg the recluse to the boffin but not to the djinn there's an argument I think

[crisp trout]

also i think we play with very different groups

[crisp trout]

yeah i think the spirit of the jinx would also allow it

[floral moon]

what does a good boffin amne ability look like, assuming you have a widow

[sudden tendon]

plague doctor wizard with a good ST

[fossil tiger]

I've played in like 7 different "groups"

it has been clear whos trusted in all of them

[floral moon]

i want to group myself

[crisp trout]

i think boffin has enough that some people will definitely want to utilize it. and if you think it’s a worse widow just…don’t pick it as kazali 😎😎😎

[fossil tiger]

you can see who has the info, you can see who's being chatted to a lot, you can see who's noms get votes

[crisp trout]

7 < the amount of groups that play BOTC

[fossil tiger]

this is true

[crisp trout]

you could just be a data anomaly 😎😎😎

anyway its vati’s call

[fossil tiger]

yup I just stand by my disagreement

[floral moon]

kaz goblin seems not that bad

[fossil tiger]

town crier

[sudden tendon]

from the ST seat, high-info high-weirdness scripts often have a lot going on the evil team misses -- they tend to panic a bit about the info implicating them and miss its interpretation, or alternatively overestimate how well the info they're putting out is influencing anything

[narrow moth]

Is that a problem? Good needs some way to be able to solve it

HHR has Goblin + TC

[floral moon]

it has dreamer/tc/sav/ft

[sudden tendon]

and there are lots of levers in terms of how madness is playing out, if and where droison is being identified, etc

[fossil tiger]

it's not solving it

it's Goblin poisoning the TC

[sudden tendon]

plague doctor scarlet

[crisp trout]

yeah that’s the only thing i see

[fossil tiger]

Goblin is solved 6 ways to sunday

[floral moon]

just dont let the plague doctor die smh (or give a better ability)

true tho

[sudden tendon]

or as hystrex put it

[fossil tiger]

mhm

[floral moon]

me when no fearmonger organ grinder combo

[fossil tiger]

I think Vizier is a good fifth

[floral moon]

vizier is pretty ew i think

[crisp trout]

genuinely i agree

[floral moon]

oh

[crisp trout]

vati has good reasoning for this above

[fossil tiger]

why

[floral moon]

i had SNV open instead of CC LMFAO

[floral moon]

i saw flowergirl

[fossil tiger]

bestie what

oh

[crisp trout]

.

[floral moon]

still dont like vizier too much here

[fossil tiger]

like Vizier is good becuase good on this script cannot agree on executions

[floral moon]

i think they all agree to execute the demon

[fossil tiger]

they don't

[crisp trout]

i’m still boffin’s strongest soldier but vizier could be cool

[floral moon]

i think boffin is better than viz tbh

[fossil tiger]

most devoted ✅
strongest ehhhh

[floral moon]

vizier removes a lot of bluffroom imo

[fossil tiger]

I think that a lot of the good team might

[crisp trout]

:(

[fossil tiger]

until the one player tunnelling badly harvests 3 slams in a row and evil wins

[fossil tiger]

:3

[sudden tendon]

Vizier nerfs evil a lot just by being on the script, let alone in play, so that's arguably useful

[floral moon]

that does not happen at all with vizier in play

[sudden tendon]

There are a few things that make it much less viable for me than boffin

I think I'll almost definitely do boffin

[graceful seal]

Have we considered that vizier happens to be vizier

[crisp trout]

https://tenor.com/view/dancing-kitty-cat-cute-dance-happy-gif-21589584

[fossil tiger]

I think that from storytelling and playing VASMR

Vizier is better than people think bc people don't know how to vote

[narrow moth]

VASMR?

[fossil tiger]

nerdguy

[fossil tiger]

teensy script built around Vizier

[graceful seal]

Oh it’s a teensy

[fossil tiger]

have you never seen the art of VASMR

[sudden tendon]

I think vizier on janklike teensies is not really comparable to vizier on cc

[graceful seal]

Maam I’ve never seen vizier be helpful

[fossil tiger]

sir?

[graceful seal]

fuck mb

[fossil tiger]

:3

[fossil tiger]

this is fair

[floral moon]

i think vizier would be the weakest minion on CC for sure

[fossil tiger]

Vizier should jsut not have "all players know who you are"

[graceful seal]

I think this script needs organ Grinder

[fossil tiger]

at least it would get picked

[floral moon]

YES

[fossil tiger]

I think this hurts evil more than it helps it

[floral moon]

i need to give the "an evil player voted yesterday" savant with organ grinder

[crisp trout]

https://tenor.com/view/die-thy-end-is-now-gif-7461731436631923081

[fossil tiger]

we are currently replacing the weakest never picked minion

[sudden tendon]

hystrex do you see the boffin vision

[floral moon]

witch isnt being replaced?????

[graceful seal]

Nah I’d win

[sudden tendon]

godfather is stronger here than witch when actually chosen

[dapper carbon]

Isn't that what widow is for? Lemme look over the script again

[fossil tiger]

witch > godfather :3

[crisp trout]

i see witch get picked a lot ngl

[crisp trout]

GAAAAAAH

[graceful seal]

People pick witch

[fossil tiger]

WHAT DID I SAY

[floral moon]

im merely joking, as god's unluckiest witch

the only witch kill i've ever gotten is myself

i've rolled witch about 6~ times

[graceful seal]

Pick loud people

[floral moon]

i do

[crisp trout]

@dapper carbon

[fossil tiger]

oh right I remember that game now

[graceful seal]

rip

[sudden tendon]

amne, several of the outsiders, fucked up recluse shenanigans, evil info with sober damsel

[supple patio]

witch is cracked, it has synergy with town crier

[floral moon]

im a solid amne boffin hater

[dapper carbon]

Half of these are easily widow bluffable

Boffin is like

[fossil tiger]

thank you Hystrex

[graceful seal]

Banshee???

[dapper carbon]

Quite weak here

[sudden tendon]

not to mention that over half the grim nominated every day

[floral moon]

exactly what i said :3

[crisp trout]

how

[floral moon]

I WAS TRYING

[crisp trout]

i mean yeah librarian

[graceful seal]

Banshee?

Really?

[crisp trout]

but it allows sober damsel with grim peeking

general is for socials and i will die on that hill

[dapper carbon]

Yeah boffin banshee doesn't work outside phantom detectives

[crisp trout]

amne is based

most of the outsiders is based

[crisp trout]

mf when i can custom pick a SW

also recluse boffin shenanigans

[dapper carbon]

Me when the boffin hecking dies

[crisp trout]

hystrex you gotta see the vision

[dapper carbon]

Recluse is valid

I see the vision but this is just not a boffin script

[graceful seal]

Kenoboi there is no vision

[fossil tiger]

there's no vision kenoboi

[crisp trout]

this is a problem with most minions

[floral moon]

recluse is the only argument for boffin that i like tbh

[crisp trout]

there 100% is

[fossil tiger]

okay

there is

[dapper carbon]

There's like 40% of a vision

[fossil tiger]

I don't htink it's a good vision :3

there's concepts of a vision

[graceful seal]

Y’all

[dapper carbon]

I'm never picking Boffin here

[graceful seal]

Consider

GF

Should stay

[crisp trout]

guys i literally laid out multiple examples of when boffin isn’t widow-

[crisp trout]

then don’t

but i definitely would

we’re trying to get rid of the least picked minion anyway

[dapper carbon]

But can I have the option for godfather back 🥺

[graceful seal]

Ah

[crisp trout]

godfather is gone buddy 😔

[graceful seal]

It should be 4 minions

[sudden tendon]

There is not a fifth minion that fits on this script and lacks widow overlap. Widow does too many things. This is a problem the script has. It will always have this problem. There is no solution to this problem. Conditional on this, what is the fifth minion?

[graceful seal]

Add legion

[crisp trout]

https://tenor.com/view/senator-armstrong-gif-23761134

[fossil tiger]

big if true (miniscule)

[floral moon]

go psychopath for no reason, fuck banshee

[dapper carbon]

Evil twin?

[fossil tiger]

Vizier should just not have "All players know who you are" >:(

idk why that's nesc :/

[dapper carbon]

Yeah it should be like psycho

[fossil tiger]

the problem imo with ET is that if you make someone you don't know the ET you're a dickhead

[crisp trout]

vati you should do your favorite minion ever harpy

[graceful seal]

Also exe survival bluff

[fossil tiger]

so then if they solve the ET you are kinda outed

[graceful seal]

The slept on exe survival bluff

[dapper carbon]

It's a solo kazali script what's new

[floral moon]

faking ET with your minion kinda peak tbh

[fossil tiger]

well yeah that's the problem with et

[graceful seal]

What?

[fossil tiger]

it's an outed minion

[floral moon]

says the lady suggesting vizier

[graceful seal]

ET is not outed what

[sudden tendon]

Possibility but worse than boffin for several reasons

[crisp trout]

how did boffin fall apart 😭😭😭

it was so good

[graceful seal]

No

[fossil tiger]

you say was as if it was ever good

[fossil tiger]

ET puts people into social conflicts and is one of the most hated minions because of that

[crisp trout]

all my supporters went offline and all my haters rose up 😔😔😔

[sudden tendon]

There's about 95% I do it

[graceful seal]

This like

[crisp trout]

we’re so back

[dapper carbon]

Vati you should add mez :sotrue:

[graceful seal]

Isn’t the case in not livetext

[fossil tiger]

what

[sudden tendon]

I have considered all the other possibilities and I find their shortcomings worse than boffin's shortcomings

[fossil tiger]

you know I don't play majority livetext right

[crisp trout]

REAL

[graceful seal]

People enjoy ET 85% of the time

[narrow moth]

All backed by Big Monkey 🐵

[graceful seal]

I don’t see you on app enough

[sudden tendon]

People notoriously loathe et

[graceful seal]

Therefore must be livetext

[fossil tiger]

who are you playing with

[graceful seal]

App randos

[fossil tiger]

I have IRL groups <3

[graceful seal]

People like ET

[dapper carbon]

I find it entirely fine for CC to be a 4 minion script that additionally has godfather on it

Especially for moonchild reasons

[graceful seal]

there’s on average 0-1 players in a game who dislike ET

[crisp trout]

alright i’m gonna dip for now, boffin stay strong for me

[fossil tiger]

I don't think this is true

like

someone in my irl group runs SnV with ET -> Boomdandy bc of how little they like ET

and multiple people agree with the change

[graceful seal]

Yes app is different from irl

Damn, wild

[dapper carbon]

ET is very divisive yeah

[sudden tendon]

Everyone on the app except exactly the two of us hates et so much they keep running Fearmonger SnV

[dapper carbon]

I think it's insane to put it on SnV but that's a different story

Hey at least it's not fearmonger

[graceful seal]

Vati fearmonger SNV never existed

I have 0 clue what you’re talking about

[sudden tendon]

I assure you it did

[graceful seal]

I haven’t seen any heresy of the sort

[fossil tiger]

Vati I think this is a joke

[sudden tendon]

There's also goblin snv and harpy snv and mez snv

[fossil tiger]

I am also not sure tho

[graceful seal]

This is less surprising

[floral moon]

i like snv but only tb roles to avoid ET

[fossil tiger]

besite

[graceful seal]

Jesus Christ this is new

[fossil tiger]

bew

nee

[sudden tendon]

No Parker has this thing where he like envisions how people play and I have to remind him I play in the same damn place and it's not true

[graceful seal]

I’ve seen like

2 people hate ET

I don’t understand

[sudden tendon]

Anyway I think this has been demonstrated over time to not work

[fossil tiger]

😭

[graceful seal]

Is this because I never join TB lobbies

[dapper carbon]

What about it doesn't work

[floral moon]

we should put on summoner

for no reason

[sudden tendon]

That it sucks and it's a problem for introducing the script to people and that "script presence" roles don't work in Kazali

[floral moon]

(i would unironically suggest wizard but then it'd become a wizard script tbh)

[sudden tendon]

It would be an ideal minion here if there was a second demon

But a lot of minions would be ideal here if there was a second demon

[fossil tiger]

if I see Boffin on this script

I see

for people who like boffin

[graceful seal]

Add pithag smh

[fossil tiger]

Boffin is in the box

[fossil tiger]

iconic

[graceful seal]

No seriously people hate ET?

I’m confused what happened

[fossil tiger]

idk what these words mean in this order

[supple patio]

ET's kinda annoying tbh... :/

[fossil tiger]

hard social conflict like that is frusterating

[graceful seal]

My whole worldview is crashing down before my eyes

[fossil tiger]

if I am playing CC and turned into ET

and like

someone I don't know very well is my demon

[graceful seal]

ET doesn’t work on CC

[fossil tiger]

I'm annoyed

[graceful seal]

we already know that

[supple patio]

does it not? D:

[floral moon]

we only have 6 outsiders including poli tbh

[sudden tendon]

It's one of those things people tend to express in nuances that are less obvious if you haven't yet worked out what people mean by those nuances

[graceful seal]

Because like

I mean

Skill issue legion ET scripts

This works

It’s weird that I hate a role everyone likes and love 5 roles people don’t like

[floral moon]

we should put legion on CC

[graceful seal]

No

[floral moon]

its an okay ish minion

[graceful seal]

Witch

Cere

[floral moon]

just pick your own demon smh

[graceful seal]

Le no

[floral moon]

if they can pick you, you can pick them

[graceful seal]

Engineer Legion moment

Don’t do this

[graceful seal]

Actually ET snv might’ve been a mistake

ET GoS

[fossil tiger]

ET SnV wasn't a mistake

what are you talking abt

[graceful seal]

But consider ET GoS

[fossil tiger]

yeah no

[graceful seal]

I know leviathan

But like

It’s better in leviathan

Oh wait riot nvm

ET is fine on SNV

[fossil tiger]

also

[graceful seal]

but no one gets the vision

[fossil tiger]

GoS minions are all misinfo

that's why it would be so difficult

[graceful seal]

ET is too loud

[narrow moth]

Why are we speculating about GoS here now

[graceful seal]

#speculation-and-spoilers

Moment

Anyway ||Riddle Fiend|| GoS

That’s my counterpoint

[crisp trout]

i come back and we’re discussing GoS minion suite

[noble folio]

I admit I didn't read the 9000 messages that have been written here in the last two hours, but I hope somewhere among those vati decided that Boffin is not a good replacement for GF 😬

[tired heron]

i think we should just keep GF

[narrow moth]

Was there any particular reason for having five minions besides "vibes"?

[noble folio]

Kazali options at 13+ players?

[floral moon]

just pick witch thrice

[tired heron]

witch hunt moment

[narrow moth]

GF can potentially by an okay PD ability, but even at 13+ I wonder how often someone would pick Godfather

[fossil tiger]

hey brain are there stats on CC

[sudden tendon]

It's by a significant margin more viable than anything else I can think of

It is not perfect

Nothing will ever be perfect

It is legitimately not possible to have a perfect fifth minion on a script that also includes a minion that was consciously designed to do like five different things at once

I don't really want to drop to 4

That's probably the second choice behind Boffin because all other options have sticking points I genuinely dislike

[fossil tiger]

nooo cringe :(

Vizier is cool and based :(

[tired heron]

i think GF is picked exclusively at b2 outsiders

[noble folio]

Probably. Haven't checked yet though

[crisp trout]

https://tenor.com/view/me-when-pain-crying-gif-19361950

bra1n you should read those 9000 messages

i really don’t wanna type up my entire boffin essay again

[noble folio]

I know, I know, but then my other work will suffer...

[crisp trout]

true…

[sudden tendon]

Across all versions and formats I've now recorded 51.7% good wins so it's finally balanced but now I gotta add 6 bra1n games to the stats

[crisp trout]

i guess closing statements is yes widow can do a lot that boffin can (BUT NOT ALL), but there aren’t really any actively bad aspects of boffin on this script (no virgin, no NWM etc) so there’s really no harm in adding it if nothing else works

[sudden tendon]

And also it does some really based things and offers a way to get evil info with a sober damsel

[crisp trout]

also Boffin PM is technically a new form of misinfo on this script

since it’s drastically different from regular PM

[noble folio]

Still a worse widow

[crisp trout]

disagree

[sudden tendon]

The auspicious amnesiac:

[crisp trout]

but i really don’t wanna type it all out again

[crisp trout]

@noble folio mostly this

[sudden tendon]

Also you can give the recluse the damsel ability

Or depending how you interpret the jinx the poli ability

[crisp trout]

yeah recluse shenanigans are mentioned below

also you can do TINMBH and do recluse amne with an outsider ability

[sudden tendon]

Which are also both very interesting ways to balance Kazali picks

[sudden tendon]

Yeah I already have some abilities in mind from Final Nail

[noble folio]

My players are not advanced enough for that, don't forget not everyone has played hundreds of customs yet.

[sudden tendon]

"they're 6/6 evil"

[crisp trout]

oh my days

[dapper carbon]

Just sub widow for spy and poisoner :sotrue:

[crisp trout]

REAL

[noble folio]

Nah, the last two were won by good I think

[tired heron]

i mean, if your players arent experienced enough for it, then dont do it

meanwhile, people with players who are experienced enough for it can still enjoy it

[noble folio]

alright, I checked and I can only see 12 games that have been played with v5.2 on the app

[sudden tendon]

48.6% 😎

(there are 35 games across all versions where I know how they ended, but I know there are more that have been run)

[drifting quail]

what about

adding fang gu and dropping to 4 minion 🔥

[noble folio]

the 12 on the app had 7 good wins

[drifting quail]

smh no fun and whimsy

[noble folio]

the GF was picked ZERO times by the Kazali in those 12 games

[tired heron]

how many times out of those 12 games was it b2 outsiders?

[noble folio]

each role that was in play at the end of the game in those 12 rounds

15 Kazalis means 3 of them were SWs originally

[drifting quail]

woahh kazali in all 15 🔥

actually 7 scalet out of 12 is hillarious

[noble folio]

SW 7, cere & widow 5, witch 4

[sudden tendon]

Balanced 🔥

(there is no fifth minion)

[noble folio]

although one or two of the finishing Kazalis might have actually been PD SWed other minions

[drifting quail]

oh right pd exists, true

[drifting quail]

the one or two must've been godfather 🔥 /j

[sudden tendon]

I think based on synthesizing both the games I ran in this period and the games I saw other people run (off the roles I can remember some individual games lol) none of the app games specifically were pd scarlet

[noble folio]

yeah, seems likely, given 5 games had a PD

also math at 2 reinforces my argument that it's not a good fit on this script 😄

[sudden tendon]

That's because people hate running it

[noble folio]

sure, but there has to be a reason

[sudden tendon]

I didn't run most of these games and when I talked to the other STs about bagbuilding it was very "not wanting to run math or savant"

[narrow moth]

Is Math not relatively easy to run here?

[noble folio]

do your hands have at least one finger?

[fossil tiger]

you keep pointing to this list as if they are all good boffin abilities and not 90% worse widow or “work only on SW Boffin”

[long glen]

I don't think this is a boffin script

[crisp trout]

they are all good

what

[long glen]

Maybe without widow, it is

[fossil tiger]

can you send the livetext stats speicifclaly, curious ant smth

[crisp trout]

how is savant amne recluse PM “worse widow”

[fossil tiger]

librarian general savant are

[sudden tendon]

and banshee!

[crisp trout]

librarian allows grimpeeking without drunk damsel as i have already said many times

[sudden tendon]

widow is extremely not general, it lacks reactivity

[fossil tiger]

“works only on SW Boffin”’

[long glen]

Banshee is disabled after a bit tho?

[sudden tendon]

don't die

[crisp trout]

and we disagree on general but i think it’s good for socials

[long glen]

After the boffin's inevitable death

[crisp trout]

REAL

[sudden tendon]

you have +2 evil votes why is the boffin getting executed

[long glen]

+1

[sudden tendon]

Not disambiguated by format unfortunately

[fossil tiger]

[crisp trout]

boffin =/= grimpeeker

[sudden tendon]

"mostly evil"

[fossil tiger]

either a feelsbad or useless

[sudden tendon]

boffin lib poli

ez

[noble folio]

Unless Poli outs the demon and instantly wins

[sudden tendon]

evil won the one game where that happened 😎

[long glen]

Lol

[sudden tendon]

for that matter they also won the game where the demon outed to the pd bluffing poli

[long glen]

Love that for them

[sudden tendon]

v3 was pretty evilsided

[long glen]

All of my ideas are just "budget widow" lol

[sudden tendon]

This is "recluse with boffin-amne" not "demon with boffin-amne"

[long glen]

Oh

[fossil tiger]

The fun "This is not my Beautiful House":

[crisp trout]

EXACTLY

[noble folio]

When you put Recluse into the bag and then the Kazali never chooses Boffin and picks that player to become a minion

[fast maple]

I don't think Boffin fits the vibe here

[fossil tiger]

uncommon axo W

[sudden tendon]

what does lol

[sudden tendon]

axo Ws are very common

[long glen]

Godfather

[fossil tiger]

Assassin fits the vibe

I don't think it's good

[sudden tendon]

evil cannot have an easy way to deal with banshees

[fossil tiger]

^

[fast maple]

GF in base 1/2

[fossil tiger]

the devious cerenovus:

[sudden tendon]

yeah but the vibes are off

[fast maple]

The cere has to live, notably

The assassin doesn't

[sudden tendon]

means you can't lock the savant as pixie to back up the poli's bluff

[fast maple]

And also you're using the fucking cerenovus ability to deal with a banshee of all things

[sudden tendon]

it's a strategy, it's not a breaking strategy

[fast maple]

You could be cooking with it

[fossil tiger]

the only time when you need to deal w a banshee is f3

[sudden tendon]

hi waffles

what do you think the new fifth minion should be

[fast maple]

thank you, thank you

[lime cape]

Gave +1 Thanks to @sudden tendon (current: #412 - 105)

[fast maple]

I'll be so real, I don't think there's a good 5th Minion released yet

[twin galleon]

I don’t even like regularly playing savant, that game was something alright

[sudden tendon]

especially considering the caveat that I hate fun, whimsy, and 60% of minions

[fossil tiger]

Boffin is a trap for boffin lovers that will cause them to lose

embrace Vizier as the fun fifth

[sudden tendon]

oh it's like how widow is a trap for widow lovers that causes them to lose

[fossil tiger]

well no

widow wins on CC

boffin won't

[twin galleon]

Yeah, I don’t think anything fits the vibe well while also being great, but I’m also not really a script builder

[fast maple]

I mean Organ Grinder but also hi It Comes At Night welcome back

We thought you died after the Kaz release

[long glen]

What about just leaning into the death mod?

Assassin + GF 😎

[sudden tendon]

that would produce a new script I think

[fast maple]

me when assassin is used to help evil bluff gf existing and nothing else

(the second outsider gets exed and town immediately realizes it's not a gf game)

[noble folio]

I'm still going to try Goblin in place of GF and nobody is going to stop me

[sudden tendon]

Improvement on the time people tried to replace it with Poisoner

Tell me how it goes

[viral pumice]

godfather is so much better than boffin here imo

godfather adds dimension in a way that boffin doesn't really

boffin also needs a bit more bagbuilding than most minions imo

like if you happen to put puzzlemaster and amne in play, and the kaz makes a widow and a boffin what are you gonna give as the boffin ability

the best case is you give the recluse the plague doctor ability and then the boffin is a blank token until day 3 or whatever, when they get the sw ability or something

[crisp trout]

absolute HATERS

vati it’s me and you against the world

luckily you’re the script creator

[crisp trout]

savant 😎

general 😎

Recluse 😎

Fisherman oh wait that’s not on here 😎

i agree it has anti-synergy with widow

however i think of it more as a widow sidegrade than downgrade

but yes as a kazali i probably would not pick widow AND boffin which does lower kazali combos

but like what synergies did GF have in 1-2 minion games

[fossil tiger]

I am unconvinced

[fossil tiger]

I am unconvinced

[crisp trout]

yeah i know 😔

[drifting quail]

hmm there is this interesting question though

why is godfather here intially?

[fossil tiger]

you can have this one

[crisp trout]

good question

@sudden tendon you said no one else but you saw the gf vision

what is the gf vision

[drifting quail]

i saw an argument that godfather was here to partially prevent outsider from just being exed

[fossil tiger]

disincentive executing outsiders

[drifting quail]

but if gf is never picked (due to kazali being a picking demon)
then the fearmongering is kinda, gone

[fossil tiger]

also for bluffing outsiders

[crisp trout]

i mean only 2 out of 6 of these outsiders actively want to be executed and 1 of them can’t say why

i guess moonchild too

[drifting quail]

you normally already have a bluff as a kazali'd minion

and it's an arbitrary bluff too

[crisp trout]

widow does this better 😎

[fossil tiger]

this is true

but doesn't accelerate game

[drifting quail]

right but witch

is gf supposed to be a witch widow crossover then

[fossil tiger]

yes

[drifting quail]

but like, with risk (of low outsider count)

[fast maple]

Makes outsider bluffs terrifying to execute into because of gf kill

[crisp trout]

it does quasi confirm them tho

[fast maple]

it's a witch sidegrade depending on base outsider count

[crisp trout]

since the only multikill is GF and Moonchild

and MC is quite obvious

[fast maple]

it confirms the outsiders as good, but this isn't always bad

[drifting quail]

right but

[fast maple]

what happens when the first GF kill happens 😨

[drifting quail]

fringe game 🔥

[viral pumice]

Honestly, I'd prefer an in play recluse picking up the PD ability over savant/general. Recluse is fair tho

[narrow moth]

Is Boomdandy off?

[tired heron]

vati doesnt want it so yea

[crisp trout]

yes 😔

[scenic thorn]

that was a lot to read

[crisp trout]

the real question is after reading allat, are you pro or anti boffin

[scenic thorn]

i would say that i am am-boff-alent

(probably pro-boffin)

[narrow moth]

Any thoughts on recommended travellers?

[sudden tendon]

Travellers that have worked: Apprentice, Judge, the voting travs but there's an extra evil on script so that's contentious, Harlot, probably Barista (least tested of the set and inherently super swingy)

When running travellers on here, assign their final roles and alignments after the Kazali picks

(Apprentice legitimately works here because it can mitigate rather than intensify swing)

I think Bone Collector and Scapegoat would probably work too

also a gangster shot the demon in f3 once

[sudden tendon]

longtext cc ended, damsel win on 5

demon bluffed a widow ping that everyone hard trusted

(anieta shouldn't be marked dead I think)

[fast maple]

dire just hates the town crier

[sly shell]

Yeah, Anieta was alive

[sudden tendon]

also there were 5 ft claims d1

archive name suggestion: #fivetune-teller

[floral moon]

noted :3

i was robbed of my give-random-bullshit-to-savant chance by early death smhh

[sudden tendon]

confirmed widow game

[floral moon]

so true

they werent ready for HP savant

[sudden tendon]

extremely fun to watch

[floral moon]

im glad you enjoyed ehe

extremely fun to run

[sudden tendon]

also assuaged my concern about solo kazali longtext

[floral moon]

:3

its not that swingy trust

[sudden tendon]

was more concerned about social meta but it turned out fine

at least externally

would want more player feedback

but also yeah I've become confident over time that kazali setup swing is (while significant) less of an issue than people who don't run the demon a lot tend to worry

[floral moon]

i only worry about rolling sweetheart

or PD

[fossil tiger]

mm damsel too broken just gets guessed by evil /j

[sudden tendon]

so true

[long glen]

Damsel is rough, but fine probably

[fossil tiger]

good revealed too much

[sudden tendon]

this is the first sober damsel game I've heard of where the damsel guess didn't solve the game for good 😭

[fossil tiger]

that's it

[long glen]

Godfather is a choice here but I'm sure you've already heard that advice a million times.

[sudden tendon]

would you like to backread the 1000 post discussion about what to replace it with

[fluid tulip]

btw in my opinion godfather is a choice

hope i could help

[floral moon]

i like GF

[floral moon]

i need to find more kazali scripts

[fossil tiger]

eh

[sudden tendon]

alternatively you could just run this one always

[fossil tiger]

other kazali scripts do feel like Clockwork Cyborg but worse idk

[floral moon]

i was considering running this one again ehe

[sudden tendon]

oh yeah how'd livetext Project go I missed it

[fossil tiger]

you should

[floral moon]

i think there should be a 15p kazali script that works somewhere tbh

[fossil tiger]

evil won off the klutz

[sudden tendon]

cc's been played fine at 16

[floral moon]

i said "i hope i dont roll sweetheart" then i immediately rolled sweetheart

and then got picked as DA

[fossil tiger]

first successful execution on d3

[floral moon]

and protected every single execution

until klutz which picked me

and game over :3

also i was bluffing politician btw

unironically

[long glen]

They don't exist

[floral moon]

ill just have to make some then

[floral moon]

ill run CC but 15 next time maybe

[fast maple]

it comes at night and back to basics:

[fossil tiger]

ping me

[sudden tendon]

also @reef plinth congrats on first longtext demon win 🔥 happy to have it be on my script

[fossil tiger]

I must keep my CC winstreak

[long glen]

I've made a bad kazali script

[sudden tendon]

longtext organ grinder 🔥

[floral moon]

i havent seen back to basics, what is that?

[floral moon]

dm it to me plss

i have made the kazali teensy of all time :3

[fast maple]

just don't run it in long text

[floral moon]

ooh wait i can run steward strikes back

[dapper carbon]

Sentinel? 😭

[fossil tiger]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/570050241022263317/1165170687405740112/Back_to_Basics_v1.4.png?ex=67e78f43&is=67e63dc3&hm=c369c2f20ed71b3f11ef8b340bc4dc6db30b7a82d3a4c67ed43a5af1834c63d3&

[floral moon]

its not even that bad trust trust trust

[floral moon]

NO lol

[dapper carbon]

Oh ok

[drifting quail]

damsel is such a damaging character holy shit
also who was ceremad?

[sudden tendon]

that's one of the versions from before kazali came out

[fast maple]

https://botc-scripts.azurewebsites.net/script/2263/4.5.0

[fossil tiger]

dire has his own script named steward strieks back actually

[floral moon]

oracle as fortune teller, then self cere

[fossil tiger]

it's funi

[sudden tendon]

(kazali was made by the guy who made that script)

[fast maple]

this literally isn't it

[floral moon]

steward was the original

[fossil tiger]

welll hold on

[dapper carbon]

Got it

[floral moon]

req gaslighting campaign

[fossil tiger]

they're just two scripts with similar names

[sudden tendon]

it is, zets started public work on btb before the kazali release so he released semi-fake versions with only imp

[fast maple]

oh wait really?

[floral moon]

this is TB but bad

[fast maple]

noway

[fast maple]

All scripts are TB but bad

[dapper carbon]

No. SnV is gos but bad

[floral moon]

based

[fluid tulip]

is it tb but bad?

[fossil tiger]

this isn't my fault