★ Circus Music ★

[plucky aurora]

given that ice dropped ojo from a kenku script

i'm assuming not

^

[inner cradle]

oh that makes sense

[main frost]

Personally I think it's fine if it's exactly only Ojo

But ymmv

[dark veldt]

It really depends on the context of the rest of the script

It's similar to Virgin and Boffin on the same script

With the key difference being that Kenku's ability to protect people still gives it notable value outside of its confirmation

So I'd only say it really works if the script is making that ability for good to reach their hands into the pot of who will live & die much more important

[main frost]

Yeah, like killing a frame

[inner cradle]

got it

[dark veldt]

Hey chat! I've been silent round this part of the country, so I figured I'd keep you all in the loop. As I've mentioned prior, I've currently got projects in my life that have had me very intensely busy, and as you might be able to notice (ok, I think I'm the only person who's noticed this) I tend to not juggle botc homebrewing projects super well and tend to really, mostly, focus on one at a time. While I intend to wrap up the 3rd Circus Music script before changing my publishing style, I think afterwards it would fit me and my schedule better to focus on more dramatic single or double character releases with accompanying scripts, similar to early HBL. This is especially because a lot of my character collection is just kind of eclectic, and my artistic musings are very wavering. On the subject of art, to be perfectly candid, that's the main thing holding me back from a lot of the releases. To simplify a long story, I just need to sit my ass down and draw some tokens. I know how most of these characters will look, I just need to, y'know, draw the bitches.

I do, when I find the time and motivation, have a couple ambitions for this project. The 2 big ones are that I want to retexture all of the character art (God, that's gonna be a pain on the script images), and redo my night orders (because they are genuinely so wack).

I don't think I have more in terms of updates aside from that, but yeah. I'll probably release new characters with the new texturing before I go back and redo the others. My artistic drive is somewhat coming back so it probably won't be too terribly long before the next character release, but I do the exact opposite of make any promises.

Here are some upcoming character arts if y'all are curious. One of these has "If this occurs" in the ability text, and the other "choose 4"

(Textures by ALonelyTaco)

[dark veldt]

(This is why you don't do leaks, chat, because I've already changed the wording to remove "if this occurs" because that's such a long phrase. The sharper wording I think makes the character punchier though, and this effect needs to be punchy.)

[dark veldt]

There are, if memory serves correct, 4 characters left for this script

(Released so far are: Prodigy, Conspiracist, & Candlemaker right? I feel like I'm forgetting something)

I forgot about Bug Collector as being released, and a very funny and hyped up character from my unreleased pool

Hmm that actually does slightly complicate things, as I'm working with someone else for that character's release and I can't make any promises for when all those details will be sorted out

But 2 upcoming characters have art, so they'll probably be releasing in like, Aprilish or late March

2 still need art, and the 3rd might release with temporary art

Sorry for long waits, chat

[dark veldt]

I have just recalled that tomorrow is a holiday

I've got a character on the back burner that, while it is not going to be on the 3rd Circus Music script, I think you'll find it enjoyable

[inner cradle]

Rerelease the snowman

[dark veldt]

Sure, gimme a sec

Snowman (Outsider) - Players who don't wish you (& only you) a Merry Christmas might die at any time.

[inner cradle]

Yay

[main frost]

WE'RE SO BACK

Snowman fans rise up

✊

[heavy haven]

✊

[torn ledge]

snowman W

[plucky aurora]

WHO FIRE REACTED THE SNOWMAN

YOU'RE GONNA BURN IT DOWN

[near forum]

this feels like a silly question it clearly says my name on it smh

[plucky aurora]

can you not fire react????

[inner cradle]

I could fix this

[dark veldt]

this ain't happening today lmao

I am incredibly rusty, and this character kinda needs more love than I can give it

[inner cradle]

How does courtier drunk showman work

[dark veldt]

As a normally drunk Showman would

Which come to think of it, I haven't thought that deeply about before

It certainly can't kill while droisoned, but I'd say that the "choice" of players obeying or not is remembered after droison

Whether or not you'd still use any of those kills is a whole other mess. If your script has Courtier, you can probably get away with it

[inner cradle]

Ok nice that's what I had in mind too

[dark veldt]

Also next release is probably in May-ish

I've got like, 2 characters that I just need to do all the almanacing and coding for and they'll be ready for release

[dark veldt]

I think I've got a release good for Monday or Tuesday ish. I'm travelling right now but when I finish my journey I'll be available to perform more magic for you all. Again, so sorry for the delays.

I think this character is fun. I think it's a fun twist on a TB character, a thing which will sound absolutely insane and wrong when y'all see this character

It also uses a mechanic that I think I've only used on 2 characters, like, in my entire internal collection

I'm also just kind of sitting on my hands & scheming about changes to make to existing characters

Mainly Trickster. I've got some ideas for changes to that char that I'm close to solidifying

[inner cradle]

By "absolutely insane and wrong" do you mean like "slayer is a virgin sidegrade"

[dark veldt]

I'm trying to think of a good comparison...

Actually that might be a good one

Yeah honestly the stretch there is less of one than I'm gonna make

[inner cradle]

Oh fire

[dark veldt]

I can finally pet my child

(Largely off topic)

[plucky aurora]

[dark veldt]

...Just like your Father...

[torn ledge]

forager

[solid lake]

let the child collect their leaves ok 😔

[dark veldt]

Alright folks, I've done enough stalling

After months of saying "The next Circus Music character is coming soon! I promise"

I think it's about damn time I put my money where my motherfuckin' mouth is

So please, gather around

And clasp your hands together

For the one

The only

The amazing

LUMBERMAN!!!!! 🗣️

-# hphshshshashshsh

[dark veldt]

what?

Wait, are you saying this isn't the new character?

Wait hold on, let me check my script...

yeah....yeah that...Hmm

Ok that's really not the right character, hold on

Ok, I think I've got it

PLEASE GIVE A WARM WELCOME

TO THE TRUTH LAID BARE

THE ONE

THE ONLY

THE BREWWWEERRRRR!!!!!!

-# hashsshshashphasha

huh? Did someone say something?

[torn ledge]

ice please 😭 stop teasing

[hasty forge]

literally on the edge of my seat

[dark veldt]

Wait a minute, this text is in the character's ability

but wait a second

That is the token

Are you telling

THAT FOR THE TRUTH AT THE END OF THE TRINITY

I'D LIKE TO WELCOME TO CENTER STAGE

[torn ledge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdDY3SXnqPQ

[dark veldt]

AT THE CORE OF IT ALL

THE MALLLUUUUUUUMMMMMMMMMM

You start knowing the in-play Minions. They might change if a good player is “mad” this info is false, even if you are dead.
“Discipuli edunt malum donec aegrotant. Aspirare debemus similes esse, charissime.”

The Malum’s knowledge is undeniable.

• On the 1st night, the Malum learns which Minion characters are in play.
• If a good player is “mad” that different Minion characters are in play, Minions might become different Minion characters.
• This may entail being mad that a different number of Minions are in play due to abilities like the Lord of Typhon and Imp
• This can happen multiple times per game, & can happen even if the Malum is dead. The Malum won’t know what the new Minion characters are! You can even change a Minion’s character in the middle of the day, though this is only advisable if you can inform them of this change.
• The Malum still has their ability, even if, for whatever reason, the Malum’s info isn’t true.
• While the Malum ability can activate multiple times per game, if there is no longer a good player who’s mad, then the ability cannot activate.

(This is an Outsider)

[torn ledge]

😌 banger ability btw, but rip apple eater, welcome mr malum

[hasty forge]

damn this was perfectly timed for me

so no lumberman? or yes lumberman?

[torn ledge]

nay

malum

[hasty forge]

yes but what about the poor lumbermen

[torn ledge]

traveller with setup 😔

[hasty forge]

well i assumed that part was a joke since it's not actually setup but :D

[dark veldt]

Brewer and Lumberman are joke characters

I do have a Traveller called the Lumberman in my script The Last Cull, but this was just me trying to make a silly random ability as quickly as I could. It might work, but it almost certainly doesn't?

[inner bluff]

“this may entail being mad that a different number of minions are in play (e.g imp)”

wait what actually happens in an imp game

“the malum still has their ability even if for whatever reason the malum’s info isn’t true”

minion gets starpassed to

[inner bluff]

good players must now act as though the concept of starpassing doesn’t exist

[dark veldt]

If a player is mad that the Imp has turned a Minion into the Imp, they would be mad that the Minions the Malum saw are no longer in play, putting them at risk for activating the Malum ability

[inner bluff]

a player is mad that the malum ability has activated and changed the minions

this is not the minions the malum saw

this procs the malum 🔥

[dark veldt]

yes lmao

[inner bluff]

um.
hmm

[hasty forge]

Does this mean that Minions may change even if the Malum is permanently poisoned?

[dark veldt]

Poisoned players do not have an ability

[inner bluff]

not sure if i like that

[hasty forge]

yeah but since it "still has its ability", just checking the limits of that statement

[inner bluff]

especially when combined with it being even if dead

everyone’s gotta be mad that no, nobody broke madness

thats a really awkward group madness that everyone is incentivized to uphold

[dark veldt]

or that if someone did, they're evil or the Storyteller just didn't proc Malum

[inner bluff]

it gets even worse on scripts with an imp or SW or anything else that can change the minions midgame

[inner cradle]

I was reading this as if it was a Townsfolk and I was very confused

It's cool tho!! GoS vibes almost

[inner cradle]

I like the idea behind this one even tho it's a joke, it's a barista sidegrade (that needs a lot of polish ofc)

[torn ledge]

yee i have it on my gos-mhotd script

[inner cradle]

Nice

[proper kraken]

Honestly, that's largely not a coinicidence

[proper kraken]

Also, side note. isn'tMalum supposed to represent Eve and therefore be a woman?

[torn ledge]

i dont know but look at the message i replied to w that

[proper kraken]

Ah. Duly noted

[dark veldt]

Intentionally vague. I always imagined it as the serpent personally. It's vibe is mostly just someone cursed with knowledge through it demanding faith.

[proper kraken]

Even when it had its original name?

[torn ledge]

oh thats why its apple eater

[proper kraken]

Oh lmao I forgot you said it Dark

[torn ledge]

i genuinely though it was someone who ate apples

[dark veldt]

I think so? Idk the original name was moreso just like "someone from Eden vibes"

[torn ledge]

like how vi has candy i thought ae just ate apples

didn't get the idea behind it 💀

[proper kraken]

That makes sense then. And I will say the current name definitely fits the vibe better

I just thought having it be "Apple Eater" meant it was necesarilly the person eating the apple (The Eve equivalent)

[dark veldt]

and I do like my religious themed characters to have secular readings. It could just be someone who eats apples, or given it's flavor text it could be someone who follows the ways intelligent people including the bad things they do

[torn ledge]

i liked apple eater bc it seemed super cute like bros just eating an apple leave em in peace minions but no 💀💀

[proper kraken]

OH NOR. THE APPLES!

[dark veldt]

my day be so fine, and then boom, Minions

[torn ledge]

i genuinely thought that was it

[proper kraken]

Also, unitntetional, but maybe the secular apple is Newton's Apple. And the Malum is just some scientist considering the laws of gravity (among other things)

and alsothe evil team hates them so much they actively change their entire professions

[torn ledge]

god the flavor is so difficult and deep why couldn't it just be moth want revenge

[dark veldt]

why can't the flavor be "Guys, it's like that one character from da Tempest"

[proper kraken]

Why cant the flavor be "Hatsune Miku is coming to murder you"?

[torn ledge]

that's great you should make that a character

should also make "aot but like, just the titan"

[proper kraken]

That must be how Atlas became a Titan. got stabbed, got big

[heavy haven]

Dunno the validity of this nitpick, but I believe that outside of SnV precedent is that the word "mad" doesn't have/need quotation marks. See Pixie for reference. I guess SnV only uses it because it's the introduction of it as a game term. :)

[dark veldt]

I could've sworn that somewhere they discussed rolling that back

I'll keep it the way it is now just bc it's less trouble, but if I can find proof that this wasn't being rolled back then I might change it

[torn ledge]

i aint changing it if they change it back 😌

[heavy haven]

makes sense! I hadn't heard of a rollback but I'll keep an eye out for it.

[vagrant adder]

This is why my Axiom doesn't have quotes around mad xd
Bendan gave me a mouthful about wasting character count lmao

[dark veldt]

Also, Saint

[dark veldt]

Madness

Actually 3, Trickster exists lmao

[inner cradle]

Oh I totally forgot about that

What on earth does this have to do with saint

"you better believe them or pay the price" ???

[dark veldt]

Also, I assume [Censored] is the next release, beacuse its a biblicly accurate Saint?

It's actually Malum because it's a fucked up Saint

❓ , that...

Saint is an Outsider who's main effect is that good can't risk playing into the world where they're evil, making them a very dangerous bluff.
Malum is an Outsider who's main effect is that good can't risk playing into the world where they're evil, also making them a very dangerous bluff.
I said it was stretch, but like, you see the vision

Wow, I ever realized how good [Censored] had it when I thought that was the interpretation. Because that one makes sense

And tbc, I see what you're saying. That is just a massive stretch

yeah, like I was saying it's the same as comparing Slayer and Virgin. similar levels of stretch I was considering was ET and DA, because they're both trying to convince people to execute a specific player

[inner cradle]

I think it's the same kind of thing as "moonchild and hatter are similar"

Like, mechanically not so much

[dark veldt]

[Censored] is an unreleased Outsider of mine which is....I think in terms of base design very comparable to Saint but in terms of practical gameplay is likely to play out fairly differently. Back when I was wanting to make a 4th script I was determined that [Censored] was gonna be on it, so it'll probably release not too long after the 3rd script.

When I warned that some of these characters are likely to get controversial, this was one of the main ones I was considering. It's untested, centralizing as hell, complicated af to play around, and extremely entertaining imo

[dark veldt]

Hey, just so y'all don't think I'm a maniac Script 3 won't have Demon's who can attack themselves at night

Prodigy will be like, actually playable on it

(Also the fact that Prodigy plays so differently on 99% of scripts compared to the gameplay I was picturing when I first made the character is something I'm reconsidering. The idea was endearing enough when I considered it niche, but the realization that the intended playstyle is the one on the fringes is making me question things)

[nocturne tapir]

im a bit curious how damaging of an outsider this really is, since if the Malum just immediately tells players what to expect against the Minions, then the good team will adjust accordingingly to find any outliers or discrepancies to support that information

and even then, going off that alone can be incredibly damaging for the evil team

although id wait to see what scripts the Malum would be included on first before i can comment anymore

[dark veldt]

Oh Malum is certainly an Outsider that if they play it right can be more damaging for evil than good

note that "If they play it right". Being a player that no one can build as evil, even if no one was going to, paints a target on you imo

[vagrant adder]

This is interesting

reminds me of my axiom lmao

although they don't really have much in common

I'm rather also curious what kind of script this would go on

[nocturne tapir]

i rather think now that its just too constrained by iuts ability text

maybe it can be

On your 1st day, learn a fact. This might change if a good player is "mad" this info is false, even if you are dead.

[proper kraken]

Oh I do actually have an ability thats sorta like that.

[dark veldt]

I really dislike that personally. It feels like something where the power level changes way too much depending on ST niceness. Idk

[proper kraken]

Thats a little soft release for Mistfits fans

[proper kraken]

Keep in mind taht changing the Minions already functions like Hatter

Except that Minions can change an unlimited number of times and you dont know for sure when a swap happened

And once a swap does happen, your info isnt amazingly helpful

THere might be times where its helpful to know whethera Poisoner was actie N1, but once a swap hppens, everything you know comes undone

[nocturne tapir]

oh god thats a really great outsider, im actually jealous i didnt come up with this

[nocturne tapir]

true, i feel as though minions swapping around like hatter only really works on scripts with atleast 4 silent EN minions, otherwise this feels like a weaker plague doctor imo

[proper kraken]

Ty!

[limber sun]

Gave +1 Thanks to @nocturne tapir (current: #1603 - 6)

[paper temple]

Eh, plague doctor has the problem of an st wanting to keep the game balanced

Hatter allows evils to have more freedom to do what is actually best for their team

[proper kraken]

Malum does also work better on GoS-likes fwiw

Since you cant kill a Hatter or PD. You can fuck over worldbuilding by forcing town to agree with one player

[torn ledge]

malums benefits for evil seem similar to gasanthesheshu's

fucking over world building by stopping you from world building with freedom

[dark veldt]

Soon they will sing a song of silk

[nocturne tapir]

human... i remember... your deltaed runes...

https://tenor.com/view/dancing-dance-bounce-bouncing-jump-gif-27487642

[torn ledge]

coping asf

[dark veldt]

This wasn't just me saying stuff to say it btw, new character release soon it just like, still needs a lot of the love that goes into releasing a character and I've been very scattered this past little while

[inner cradle]

how do dragon killer and legion interact

i can read it as "it does nothing but tbh thats fine bc it's legion", "legion cant register as evil", or "somewhere in between as each legion registers as a minion or demon in each individual instance"

#1 is my guess at RAI and #2 is my guess at RAW. and #3 kinda just sucks i think

[nocturne tapir]

my guess is 1 as it mentions the condition needing to be that the target is a demon, not that the target is not a minion

[dark veldt]

#2 was RAW and RAI, but if the 1st ruiling makes things most fun and all agree then I'm a-ok with it!

[inner cradle]

Ooooh interesting

[nocturne tapir]

coming back to this now that wraith was revealed

i really wish it was more shankaar-like (or hivemind-like, whatever is the case)

and i feel that in terms of use cases and balance, shankaar does genuinely beat over the wraith

[dark veldt]

That's fair! I think Shankaar is definitely stronger, but they also do somewhat different things.

[dark veldt]

I do feel like evil explicitly getting more time to scheme would be nice though. Like the fact that Wraith just kind of can't do what it's supposed to in like, a Leviathan Teensy is odd.

The fact it wakes during Demon info does help this a lot tho but still. Like if you have a Baron in a 2 Minion game the Wraith/Demon still needs to talk to them to give bluffs

[heavy haven]

I'd honestly kinda like a leviathan/riot etc. Jinx personally

[dark veldt]

I'm struggling to connect the thoughts but that reminded me how sad it is that Princess lacks such jinxes

Leviathan in particular. Just make it something like "If the Princess ability activates, it doesn't count towards the Leviathan win condition." or a more natural way to phrase that and suddenly you have a genuinely good reason to kill on D1 of a Leviathan game

[edgy locust]

They actually tested a jinx like that, but found it was too easy for evil to bluff and that if people believed them they basically just win

[dark veldt]

Ok, I think I'll put script 3 on hold for now and start just releasing uh...stuff I want to

I have no motivation to release that silk themed character I was going to when Worker, Cordyceps, and Possessed are all gonna be releases with more fanfare

[dark veldt]

The circle rules your life

[proper kraken]

https://tenor.com/view/im-a-circle-circle-smile-happy-gif-16681322

[inner cradle]

That is an ELLIPSE

[dark veldt]

New character is soon, just needs character token and I want to touch up the art a little

[minor wave]

:o

[dark veldt]

It has no jinxes and that was extremely surprising to me

It's got a few bad interactions that aren't quite jinx worthy tho. I think the most interesting are Evil Twin and Goon (not the interactions, the fact it interacts notably with them)

Goon in particular is bad for a very funny reason, but is quite bad

Oh, the Drunk interaction is very strange. Y'all might hate it, but I love it. And uhh in terms of spoiling it's interactions...uh...The one jinx it would arguably need is a Marionnete one. I think it's fine without tho

[proper kraken]

"REDACTED is the Hermit of Circus Music"

Tho... in some ways, its also kinda the opposite?

[old bridge]

wait is this the one where || People think they’re Minions and might wake falsely or smth ||

[proper kraken]

||It is not that one||

[old bridge]

rip 🫡

jinx list kinda fit that vibe

[dark veldt]

ew, opened up my token krita doc and the last one I made was that Lumberman shitpost

that was foul game design, even as a joke lmao

[dark veldt]

It's tiiiiimmeeee

Here's a character you can't predict!

One that will hill the competition dead in their tracks

(I'm struggling with the puns)

[proper kraken]

||Dolomite time :)||

[dark veldt]

Warning, the following content is experimental, controversial, and will center any script you put it on around itself. Do not engage if you are not prepared. You have been warned.

Let's begin the Circus Music

PLEASE LIFT YOUR ANTENNAES

AND PUT YOUR HANDS AND COXA TOGETHER FOR

THE WORKEEEEEEERRRRRRR

When you die, learn a player & their character tonight. [All Townsfolk are Workers]
“Divided, we only beg. United, we bargain instead.”

The Worker unites the town.

• Every single Townsfolk is a Worker! Effects like the Pit Hag can still change a Worker into a different Townsfolk, however.
• The evil team does not learn there are Workers in play. The good team can rely on having a secret that they alone know.
• Whenever a Worker dies, the Storyteller will choose a player who that Worker will learn the character of that night. This happens even if the Worker was executed, or died to effects like the Psychopath.

[proper kraken]

https://tenor.com/view/deltarune-chapter-ch-3-ant-gif-4924904170325380742

[nocturne tapir]

one of those things went in my belly button...

havent seen it since...

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-avengers-infinity-war-im-sorry-little-one-gif-12454554

[proper kraken]

To elaborate

grim peekers make worker harder but arent really jinx worthy

goon is funny because it means town can never win back an evil Goon

[old bridge]

wait this is insane 😭

balanced with Heretic

[hasty forge]

Why is the character id "Sister"?

[stuck copper]

“Divided, we beg. United, we bargain.” sounds like a more threatening and blatant version than the actual flavour.

Still 🔥 though

Maaaybeee add a semicolon instead of a full stop in the middle?

[dark veldt]

I'm fairly certain that was the flavor at one point, but I didn't like how it looked. It didn't feel like, sentencey

like idk, too many stops makes it kind of look like just a collection of words whereas the current flavor text feels easier to parse

[dark veldt]

this idea of "kinship" carrying people forward, like "sister, we're in this battle together"

It was originally "brother", but apparently most worker ants are female so sister made more sense

(It also made more sense in the context of the old Worker flavor text, which was a Worker speaking to another one and addressing them as "sister". After I changed the flavor text the id thing felt like harmless fun that still made a little sense so I kept it)

[warm tinsel]

Wait wait this is awesome 😭

[inner cradle]

This is cool I've been trying to wrap my head around it

I feel like it goes on as a 14th townsfolk right?

It's not exactly a super realistic bluff

Wait wait Drunk worker is really funny

I love the fact that outsiders are excluded

...which makes the interaction with Drunk even more interesting

[paper temple]

Players can "bluff" worker to get evils to claim it

[dark veldt]

While Townsfolk won't think you're telling the truth by claiming Worker, they could still think you're a different good character. Evil can also learn it as a bluff to know for sure it isn't in play!

[old bridge]

is worker like “don’t our worker” or is it like “bait people into claiming non Worker” then executee them on the spot

[inner cradle]

I think both

I'm writing a mhdlike and I think I wanna use this 👀

[old bridge]

no like Worker Heretic goes so dummy hard

[inner cradle]

It does!! My script won't have heretic but it's a great interaction

[stuck copper]

💀 Heretic

[inner cradle]

Hypothetically if one of the workers was an evil worker would that ruin the dynamic

[stuck copper]

I mean I have an idea to jinx this with Goon but it might be a bad jinx

[inner cradle]

You kinda just say "I'm an evil worker!! Evil team blend in!!!" Don't you

But then again good can just bluff that

[inner cradle]

Why would you need a jinx lol

[paper temple]

heretic is a great character

[stuck copper]

Well it’s a bad idea anyway

[stuck copper]

No it’s just thinking of it with this leads to 💀 in the head

[inner cradle]

I mean there's the actor trope that gets thrown around pretty often. This is definitely distinct from it but it's a similar dynamic when a heretic is in play

[stuck copper]

*role goon

[pine echo]

Goon (Outsider) - Bad Moon Rising

Each night, the 1st player to choose you with their ability is drunk until dusk. You become their alignment.

**Affects Setup: **False

[stuck copper]

Forgot goon was BMR lmao

[paper temple]

is it tho?

to me it's quite different

cause the evil team no longer has to play against a hivemind of good players

[stuck copper]

Isn’t that the Chinese Homebrew Shangyuan Festival one

[proper kraken]

It’s notably different from Actor

[paper temple]

since the goodies don't know a heretic is in-play

[inner cradle]

I mean actor is [good players are actors] + heretic + good knows each other

Worker + heretic is 2/3

[proper kraken]

Actor is a hive mind that has to put on a show for evil & loses instantly if they don’t

[paper temple]

they don't have to frame anything specific

[inner cradle]

Oh yeah it's absolutely still different

[proper kraken]

Worker just makes bluffing much more complicated

[stuck copper]

It also reverses for each actor

[inner cradle]

Oh true that's a big difference

[proper kraken]

Since the Townsfolk aren’t connected, but they exchange their normal abilities for something that trips up evil bluffs

And so evil has to sorta silently try to figure out if it’s Worker and/or blend in, without looking obviously out of place

But of course, the othe Workers also won’t immediately reveal to try to feel out everyone else

[inner cradle]

Exactly yeah

[proper kraken]

Also, Boffin Worker is both the meanest thing ever & something I headcannon as the Boffin devolping drugs that turn the entire town into ants

[inner cradle]

Wait that's so funny

[stuck copper]

Like the Roald Dahl story

[proper kraken]

i'm not actually sure if Boffin Worker is legal RAW

Because once the setup adds Workers (which it must), Worker is no longer a not in play ability

[stuck copper]

Where all children got turned into mice at 9am

[proper kraken]

Boffin VI is jinxed & VI doesnt always add setup

but i imagine its handwaved?

like that Boffin decides at setup & doesnt give tat up once the ability leaves play

[inner cradle]

Boffin VI works, though it's jinxed so maybe not

[stuck copper]

It was not in-play before, therefore legal

[inner cradle]

Oh you said it

[proper kraken]

idk whether the Boffin VI jinx technically solves both the setup & the "makethe 1 sober VI drunk instead" or only the latter

But Ice's call

[warm tinsel]

Yea I agree this is definitely different from actor

~~I actually like this more ~~

[inner cradle]

I think I like this more too yeah

Legion already did the Truman show thing, this is something else entirely

Actor is just good sided Truman show

[warm tinsel]

Outsiders staying distinct is a big part for me

[dark veldt]

It can work but I wouldn't reccomend it. Evil knowing it's a Worker game gives Workers a lot less resources to work with. They can still win, that's why I didn't jinx it with characters like Spy or Widow, they've got the info from their ability, but it's a pretty big hit

[dark veldt]

All of the Worker info is just confirming the Heretic, trust

[paper temple]

🔥 "confirming them as a worker"

[proper kraken]

Vortox Worker

"why do i keep learning people as evil?"

[dark veldt]

in my mind, Boffin Worker turns good into Workers

(and is a thing you can do)

[inner cradle]

Wait that's funny

[proper kraken]

You can feed evils as Workers & Workers as Outsidwrs or evil

[dark veldt]

I fear jinxing it to be that tho, because if I get to pen the interaction to be whatever I want, then something like "If the Demon gains the Worker ability, it doesn't affect set up" I think would lead to more interesting games for both teams...oddly enough

[proper kraken]

(also evils as Outsiders)

Side Note: its flavorfully funny that Baron fucks the Workers over by adding way more people who are not in the union trust circle

Perfect for the capitalist Minion

[dark veldt]

(Evil gets an extra bluff to learn that Worker isn't in play, good can be more sure that unless someone outs the secret, evil doesn't know it's a Worker game)

[inner cradle]

Makes sense, I'm hoping the fact that good can bluff evil worker will make it so evil doesn't really know

[dark veldt]

ooh yeah, that's valid. Really depends on what exactly is causing the evil Worker situation.

...Actually what would be causing that? All I can think of is Mez

[inner cradle]

I'm gonna release it in #1399910044413460582 soon enough but let's just say that good has some very good reasons to bluff this

[proper kraken]

Caliban?

Shakaar?

Summoner?

[inner cradle]

Those are all evil characters

Well

The evil player is an evil character

[proper kraken]

all the good characters who turn evil are Outsiders

[torn ledge]

worker is cool but i still dont know how to use it

[dark veldt]

Yeah, that wouldn't be an evil worker, that would be Caliban That Started As Worker

[proper kraken]

Well yeah

Like, I doubt you can create an actual Evil Townsfolk Worker in a Worker game

Pit Hag cant

[inner cradle]

This character has the same setup text as BH but it's not a townsfolk

[torn ledge]

classic 1 tf is evil outsider i spose

[dark veldt]

I don't either lmao

[proper kraken]

Boffin Bounty Hunter Worker

There is an evil Worker now

[dark veldt]

I think Red Wind is my only Worker script, and that shit is strange

[inner cradle]

That works too lol

[torn ledge]

good to know its not entirely skill issue

[proper kraken]

Stormcaught Worker

[dark veldt]

(has some unreleased Circus Music characters so I can't share it here. It also has what is technically an unreleased HBL Demon)

[torn ledge]

thats like stormcaught vi but worse 😭

[proper kraken]

Oh stars thats amzaingly bad

[inner cradle]

It's so bad

[proper kraken]

the workers only get their info & no one dies at night

no one

[inner cradle]

I should write it as a joke script

[torn ledge]

if its hbl just leak it 😌

[dark veldt]

I mean, Luis already did tbh

[torn ledge]

then al the more reason

[dark veldt]

come to think of it, I don't know why he hasn't fully released it yet

[inner cradle]

Minions can die at night!!!

Crown 2

Yeah idk

[proper kraken]

why is the Demon killing their Minions on stormcaught Worker?

[inner cradle]

You have a good point

[torn ledge]

ice dm me which it is pls im curious

[dark veldt]

So Stormcaught Worker works with Legion?

Also Legion Worker is so fucked up and I love it

[paper temple]

doesn't stormcatcher only stormcatch 1 of em?

[inner cradle]

Oh yeah I've been fully planning to do this

[proper kraken]

how does it work with VI?

if stormcaught VI only does 1, then yeah, you're right

[paper temple]

I always run it as only stormcatching 1

but don't know official ruling

cannot imagine it being anything else tho

since the game could be essensially unwinnable for evil

[proper kraken]

Whats funny is that still fucks over Worker because even tho night deaths are normal now.... the entire evil team knows it's Worker Time

[inner cradle]

The almanac doesn't specify but there's only one Safe reminder

[torn ledge]

theres also only 5 abnormals

[inner cradle]

I mean

Sure

[torn ledge]

thats not an argument against you

[paper temple]

I would only stormcatch 1, thats what I run nymph with at least and think it's the healthier ruling for the game

[inner cradle]

You've run stormcaught nymph??

Yeah it's prob healthier

[paper temple]

no but we make Interesting Interactions for all of our characters, so we had to make up a ruling

[inner cradle]

Ah ok

[paper temple]

the IIs have a bunch of niche rulings we had to decide on

[night ibex]

Bbrruuuuhhhh

[torn ledge]

i mean am i wrong

[night ibex]

Yes 😭😭

[proper kraken]

Will that stop her from doing it tho?

[night ibex]

I fucking hope so

[torn ledge]

do you know which character it is

i am most certainly not wrong

i wont encourage leaking it bc it fucking sucks tho

[inner cradle]

I think the real litmus test is do I know this character

Like I probably don't but it's possible

Actually now that nyp is out I probably know few to none of the unreleased ones

[torn ledge]

you probably know it

[night ibex]

No yeah I know it now

But like

[torn ledge]

luis has sent it on here before

[night ibex]

I’ll keep quiet about it bc it still needs work 😭

[torn ledge]

understatement

[night ibex]

Gurl-

[torn ledge]

<3

sorry bro it needs some time in the oven

[inner cradle]

https://www.bloodstar.xyz/p/BakedIce/Released_CircusM/worker_released_circusm.png (from the json) doesnt seem to work

the evil version works fine

[nocturne tapir]

ants ate the image...

let them eat...

[dark veldt]

updated the icons, they should work now 👍

Removed the butt squiggles from the evil version

[nocturne tapir]

no :(

now how will my ants eat that cake....

[dark veldt]

that is...extremely unsettling

[inner cradle]

im still getting the same error screen https://www.bloodstar.xyz/p/BakedIce/Released_CircusM/worker_released_circusm.png

[dark veldt]

Oh fuck you are why is that

[inner cradle]

no idea

i havent seen bloodstar not work in this way other than being fully down

it might be taking its time to take effect? i think it's done that before

[dark veldt]

There we go

The formatting it was just like...

[inner cradle]

ok works epic ty

[dark veldt]

tldr; slight fuck up, fixed now

[inner cradle]

worker feels like a townsfolk that you break SAO to put at the bottom of the list

does that feel right to you

[dark veldt]

Does it not already go near the bottom anyway..?

But either way that's probably valid

[inner cradle]

actually idk if KB uses SAO by default

but magician is below it

(i do have a solution for loud tf + worker)

[dark veldt]

Worker has gone through a shit ton of revisions, and there used to be a EN version

[inner cradle]

ice how do you feel about worker ojo

the ojo can always kill which is nice

but it restricts the workers' bluffs somewhat

is this a good challenge for them or does it trivialize things

[paper temple]

Worker game will be outed before the end of the game most likely?

[proper kraken]

Yeah. It requires the Worker to really punish D1 & 2 interactions. Because by the time the Ojo has 2 kills that dont line up, they start to suspect

that being said, its technically better than grim peekers, since the Ojo still has an excuse to not know until after N2 at least

and if the Worker game is too solved, you can always buff their info

[dark veldt]

and with Worker/Ojo good is encouraged to lie to cover Worker worlds

[dark veldt]

Yeah. I was thinking about the balance and flow of info earlier today and you really get the most social info from early game Worker and you have the most mechanical info from it late game

[night ibex]

Please delete this

It’s just weird and kinda inappropriate

[minor wave]

Please

[nocturne tapir]

ok

[inner cradle]

someone just wrote my new favorite script

worker
atheist
drunk
legion

[vagrant adder]

Counterpoint:
Against a Go-

nvm

[stuck copper]

Drunk 😭

We now need an evil counterpart to Atheist

[No good players]

[nimble stratus]

legion if you arent a coward

[stuck copper]

Evil players (except Travellers) don’t know each other. [No good players]

[nocturne tapir]

u forgot actor

[inner bluff]

i mean
would it be that unreasonable to just follow what the workers are bluffing

if ojo picks math and a worker is claiming math kill them

or is that fucking over the ojo too much

[dark veldt]

It isn't, it's just kinda hard to do

[dark veldt]

I've got some characters with tokens ready, I just need to finish up their almanacs

(one of them is a TLC character)

[inner cradle]

in a worker game, can the drunk think theyre a worker

(this is a stupid example but with lady mist's sycophant it's much less stupid)

[stuck copper]

Probably not

Drunk always has to be not-in-play

[minor wave]

Ehhhhh

[stuck copper]

Unless Village Idiot

[minor wave]

Drunk needs a token

[stuck copper]

Or maybe you can

[minor wave]

Worker has more tokens than go in the bag normally

[inner cradle]

thats why i asked lol

[stuck copper]

Worker should get 40 character tokens trust

Solves all issues

[inner cradle]

i assume it's 10?

[minor wave]

I think Legion has a dozen tokens

[stuck copper]

Just put 40, you’ll never run out of tokens

[minor wave]

So 10 seems about right?

[inner cradle]

i think ur right about legion

10 is the maximum number of townsfolk in a single game assuming youre not doing [-2 Outsiders]

which would be, like, exactly xaan

[stuck copper]

0 Outsiders

[minor wave]

Godfather/vigormortis

[inner cradle]

booo

yeah ok valid

[minor wave]

Or Vig/Mario

[inner cradle]

oh shoot

[minor wave]

Vig Mario Godfather choose 2

[inner cradle]

plus drunk lol

[nocturne tapir]

why mario?

they still need the token they think they are

[minor wave]

Yeah

[inner cradle]

marionette can implicitly remove an outsider

wait ur right

[stuck copper]

Mario thinks they are the Worker 😭

[nocturne tapir]

so its just godfather and vig

and xaan

[minor wave]

I think I'm confused

[inner cradle]

i get the feeling this wouldnt actually work very well

like in terms of setup it's fine

[minor wave]

In a 15p game that's 9/2/3/1 ?

[inner cradle]

but worker clearly has distinct socials so i think it would just out them as the marionette

[stuck copper]

11/0/3/1 🔥

[minor wave]

So in the bag goes in Vig, 2 Minions, 1 outsider, 10 tow- ohhhhhh

Yeap

There we go

[inner cradle]

had to work it out manually

[stuck copper]

Add another Worker token

[minor wave]

I mean the 2nd way of running mario (which is needed cause 15p) means you might need a 12th

Actually that gives the Demon an illegal bluff

[dark veldt]

Is it possible? Yeah, probably
Is it a good idea? I'd wager no

If your script truly relies on Drunk to provide Workers misinfo then it can work, but atleast in theory things sound more fun when Workers are solving against evil abilities, since that adds veracity as an aspect to their bluffs to consider.

[inner cradle]

that makes sense

ty

[dark veldt]

In a Worker game it's actually kinda hard for the Marionnete to not think they're a Worker, depending on how you set it up

[inner cradle]

oh wait yeah lol

i was thinking in a non worker game tho

[proper kraken]

You could technically use alt setups

[inner cradle]

what specifically

[proper kraken]

To make it so the Mario doesn’t think they are a Worker

[inner cradle]

the demon would pull the worker token

unless ur lucky

[proper kraken]

The one where you put a good token in then spawn the Demon…

Oh right

The bluff matters here :/

[inner cradle]

botc.app gardener :3

[dark veldt]

A lot of people run "Marionnete first" set ups, where they put a good token into the bag with the intent of them being the Marionnete and then...

[dark veldt]

oh wait you're right

[inner cradle]

i do this yeah

i thought that was what you were referring to lol

[dark veldt]

btw Marionnete / Worker was an interaction I was considering jinxing, I just had no idea like...how the hell you'd even phrase the way the interaction actually works

[inner cradle]

i think it's allowed to be one of the several subpar but non jinx worthy interactions

[dark veldt]

I think it's that in a Worker game, the Mario has to think they're a Worker or an Outsider, and the Mario can't think they're a Worker if it isn't a Worker game...?

[stuck copper]

The Marionette may think they are a Worker if a spare token is available & the Worker is in-play.

[dark veldt]

well the jinxable part is that it's a Townsfolk with a set up effect, it's just strange bc that set up effect requires other Townsfolk with that same set up effect

[inner cradle]

anyways ive taken all the loud tf off my script and it's got worker sycophant ojo and alasa so it's got a lot going on as far as workers go

[nimble stratus]

alasa worker goes hard

[dark veldt]

• Like the Toki Pona word??
• Oh wait no, like Alsaahir
• ...
• Oh that character

[inner cradle]

yeah so uhh #1 and #4 lol

the theming of the character is extremely direct if and only if you know toki pona :3

[nocturne tapir]

alasa worker sounds unfun at the player's expense imo

from my experience, players dont really like being taken for a joyride they have little control in once they learn the grimstate by the end of the game

[inner cradle]

ok but they do have control

[nocturne tapir]

and i feel like it would just lead to a "Why the hell am I here." especially for the Alasa more than anything

[nocturne tapir]

i said little control, not no control at all

workers still have control due to their socialization and key knowledge that all other townsfolk are workers

but a alasa feels like there only existing as mechanical support for other players to have fun with a bunch of workers

not saying both are bad individually, but i dont see it as a good combination on the alasa's side

[inner cradle]

?? i dont understand

[nocturne tapir]

there will be little information for the alasa to make their evil guess

they will just have to take a public shot in the dark

[inner cradle]

There will probably be a player loudly claiming evil worker

There might be multiple but sticking to the bluff too long will just tell evil it's a worker game

[nocturne tapir]

but then what does that accomplish

[inner cradle]

Plus it's not like you're forced to guess or that it's weak when it doesn't connect

[nocturne tapir]

they kill 2 workers... and activate their ability...

[inner cradle]

-1 excecution

Ok wait this is the circus music chat lol

[nocturne tapir]

i mean its circus music + alasa

[inner cradle]

I guess

[nocturne tapir]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

also i didnt consider earlier that it might not be fun for the evil worker themselves

[stuck copper]

Sink the learning into the Alasa

[nocturne tapir]

that feels like an unhealthy use against worker to 'balance' a problematic interaction, like making a king learn themselves to stop a night of info

[stuck copper]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

They’re going to learn Worker or Alasa most of the time anyways

[nocturne tapir]

its not like arburri control

[inner bluff]

drunk worker is a thing but have you considered:

Mutant Worker

autism simulator

[inner cradle]

what does this have to do with autism 😭

mutant bluffing worker is fire tho

[stuck copper]

Sob

Mutant Worker

Damsel Worker

Blabbermouth Worker

Harpy Worker

Cerenovus Worker

[minor wave]

Idk, it feels like everyone I meet is in on something I'm not, and I'll be executed if I try and point it out

[inner cradle]

ok fire 😭

as a reformed allist i can confirm that theyre all just a bunch of weirdos (lovingly and also jokingly)

[nimble stratus]

"reformed allist" is wild

[old bridge]

[inner bluff]

no thats vati

[plucky aurora]

who do you think got hystrex to reform

[dark veldt]

Storytold some live games of D&AS

That script is fun as hell but Jesus Christ that shit is not balanced lmao

Definitely a script you play for the bit over something more serious, and I'm ok with that tbh

[dark veldt]

Sorry for the long wait folks, I've got a lots going on but I also do have a lot that I wish to share

Next release will be 5 characters I think that all have eyes in the icon. One of them's a Loric

Also one of them is from TLC

And no it's not that Demon even though I love them. Making jinxes for them will actually be hell

[heavy haven]

Need my fix

Loric is hype, excited to see different homebrewer's spin on the "explicit permission for wacky gamerules" character type lol

[warm tinsel]

Poggers

Love me some musical circuses

[dark veldt]

Apparently the script tool update, for how much I love it, will require me to change a character's almanac entry slightly

Which is just, so funny lmao

[nimble stratus]

why?

[dark veldt]

To keep things vague, the update adds a feature which can create an edge case that I need to clarify how the character works in that case.

And to be fair, it's a thing the character should clarify anyway, but now there's a much more important need

[inner cradle]

(why are we keeping things vague)

[dark veldt]

Fair

An upcoming character ||deals with script order, and the exact syntax of it makes things very confusing with scripts that aren't formatted standardly (IE, 2 columns instead of 1).||

So now I'm considering whether to resolve this in the way that will make everyone happy, or take this in the very very silly direction that will be inconvenient for everyone (but is very funny)

[inner cradle]

Ohhhhh

Do option 1 and leave option 2 as an optional/alternate rule

[dark veldt]

I finally got to playtest this Loric and it is stupid amounts of fun.

releasing this shit will motivate me to actually release these characters soon hopefully, because I need this to become a regular in lobbies

[dark veldt]

new script tool update is so hype

After the Eye Batch I'll try to make a master JSON so y'all can script tool with these

[dark veldt]

I did not realize that there was a third option, which is less funny but still pretty silly, and will hopefully make a decent amount of people happy. I think I'm pretty satisfied with this solution in theory and now I just need to do the grinding out to make it work in practice.

I think this solution will make this character a lot harder to script with, but way more interesting to actually play with. I'll explain in a lot more detail when it actually comes out

which will be soon hopefully! I have a lot lot lot going on atm, and have for the past few weeks, but if I can start cleaning up my act and getting on top of things it hopefully won't be a terribly long wait.

[dark veldt]

also ty for this suggestion! I considered it, but realized that option 1 would most likely require a wording change of some sort, and without knowing how the new script formatting worked it was hard to identify what option 2 would even look like. If it helps, the solution I think I'm settling on is much closer to option 2 than it is 1, but when the character is released I think you'll see my reasoning.

[limber sun]

Gave +1 Thanks to @inner cradle (current: #178 - 305)

[dark veldt]

I promise it is more complex than just "silly" even though it is silly

[inner cradle]

Nice

[heavy haven]

My curiosity is thoroughly piqued and my anticipation has been built

[proper kraken]

Circus Music Master JSON

[dark veldt]

Notion almanacs done

Already got the jinxes so I just need the tokens n the jsons and then the next update shoould be finished

[dark veldt]

I'm working on the jsons, and the Outsider I'm making was for some reason gonna be hatejinxed with Heretic

Looking at it now, I can't think of why it would be, but I guess that might be a bad combo?

Also this patch has 2 characters that aren't jinxed with Seer that, while I think they're less egregious than Damsel or Heretic, are still strange and jinxed with other grimseers

[dark veldt]

If all goes well, I'll probably start the releases tomorrow morning

Just wrapped up the jsons and tokens. I don't know if this update is worth how much I've been hyping it up, but it's very cool.

Also I'll probably by sometime in December finish up a masterjson for Circus Music. I also intend to, with that update, find an image hosting website for all characters to use (I won't use Imgur, might use Bloodstar) and get every character consistent, and also update the Night Orders

basically, be ready to update your downloaded jsons, bc I'm gonna make the ones on the Notion more contemporary when I do all that (hopefully)

[dark veldt]

I checked my Christmas gifts early. My momma gave me a minute. I asked her why and she said "there's no time like the present"

Let's get this motherfucking show started!

ARE YOU READY FOR AN EXPERIENCE TOO GRAND TO FACE?

[stuck copper]

Yes!

[nocturne tapir]

ADD THE WORM

I LOVE THE WORM

[dark veldt]

INTRODUCING THE FIRST LORIC CHARACTER OF THE CIRCUS MUSIC COLLECTION

[nocturne tapir]

https://tenor.com/view/worms-revolution-worms-game-team17-victory-dance-gif-2547381664561020732

[dark veldt]

PLEASE GATHER ROUND, MASK OFF, FOR THE ONE

THE ONLY

[warm tinsel]

LETS GO

[dark veldt]

MASKMAAAAKEEEEEERRRRR!!!

Name any character. There might be 1 or more of that character in-play.
"Following the crowd is really popular nowadays."

The Maskmaker lets anyone be a popular character.

• Before the game starts, the Storyteller names any character. During set up, the Storyteller can add this character into play as many times as they want (including not at all!)
• The Storyteller can name any Townsfolk, Outsider, Minion, or Demon that they want! This can include characters not on the script.
• This character might appear more than the usual set up would allow. For example, if the Maskmaker favors the Zealot then it can be in-play in a 10 player game.
• The character is still the alignment they would normally be at set up. For example, if the Maskmaker favored the Pit-Hag then all Pit-Hags would be evil.
• If the favored character isn't in play, the Demon can learn it as a bluff. Since the evil team can bluff this character whether or not it's in-play, however, this is often ill-advised.
• For online play, you can send a player a blank token to represent an offscript character. For in person play, you may use offscript character tokens for a similar effect.
• If you're making or using a script built around the Maskmaker, make sure it's clear which character is intended to be favored.
• If you're using a script that wasn't build around the Maskmaker, consider how the character you choose interacts with the script. Make sure to include the Djinn Fabled character if any special rules must be invoked on account of the Maskmaker.

[warm tinsel]

Duplicate characters!!!

Very cool

[nocturne tapir]

seems better as a minion

tried the whole 'duplicate characters' allowed thing as a bootleg rule in the past

makes the game less engaging due to good player's lack of advancement through catching evil players in double claims

[warm tinsel]

Duplicate character mechanics don't work very well outside of lorics or fabled because a lot of the time you won't have duplicates irl

So you can choose to play with them or not

[paper temple]

also quite a weak effect (from my experience)

[nocturne tapir]

you can just reprint token images on checker pieces

thats what i did

[dark veldt]

but yeah, I played with this in No Greater Joy and it's genuinely a blast. We had a game with 2 Snake Charmers and a Drunk who thought they were the Snake Charmer

[nocturne tapir]

i was just about to say i only saw it engaging for Snake Charmer

to the extent that it spawned Scrumshanty which has +0 to +2 Snake Charmers

[paper temple]

that must've been an experience

[nocturne tapir]

but truthfully, i dont know how to feel when its only really interesting for a handful of tf and outsiders (minions are generally more applicable and can lattery foot it's bill better than tf and outsiders)

[dark veldt]

You can also use Maskmaker with Demons if there's just like

if you really want to play TB with a Po on it for some reason or smth like that

basically lets the ST mod the script a little

[nocturne tapir]

i mean

just include it on the script then

even just bypass the 25 character limit

[paper temple]

that isn't really realistic irl

[dark veldt]

but anyway, would the releases today stop there?

[nocturne tapir]

how so?

[dark veldt]

Not in your dreams!

[nocturne tapir]

add the worm...

https://tenor.com/view/worms-revolution-worms-game-team17-victory-dance-gif-4656548412901654432

[dark veldt]

Not in your dreams!

[paper temple]

you cannot realistically have a script with every possible +1 character for tb for example

and having to print new scripts to just play something with 1 character changed for 2 games seems very eh

[nocturne tapir]

why every possible +1 character?

[paper temple]

well, every character you could ever realistically add as a +1

either way it's quite a bit of extra work when it's not intended to be played for many games

[dark veldt]

INTRODUCING, FROM YOUR WILDEST DREAMS

[nocturne tapir]

theres as much of a conceited truth as although possible, really only a handful of characters can and would be considered

[dark veldt]

THE ONE, THE ONLY, THE METAPHYSICAL

QUUUUOOOOOORIIIIIIIIIIII

You know 2 players & if their characters are in my column.
"Watcha dreaming about? can I join?"

The Quori gives intel from beyond reality.

• On the 1st night, the Quori learns 2 players & then whether or not each player is in the same collumn on the character sheet as the Quori.
• The Quori can learn players of any alignment, including the Demon!
• If either player changes character into one from a different collumn, the Quori will wake & learn them again.
• Depending on how you look at the script, it might be hard to remember where the "collumns" are. Typically, if the Quori is in the first 7 Townsfolk, then they can learn any of them and the 1st 2 characters of other character types. Likewise, if the Quori is in the last 6, they can often learn any of the last 6 Townsfolk and the last 2 characters of other character types. There are unconventional scripts that create other possibilities, though!
• If the Quori is under an effect which forces their info to be false, like the Vortox, then they must learn false info about both players. If they are drunk or poisoned instead, then they could learn true info about either, both, or neither player.
• This summary is really flattering! I make it way easier to figure out if those 2 people are evil or not.

[nocturne tapir]

theres only so much you can do as to warrant a very interesting game that it very niche scenarios only seek a small subset of players

and thats generally leads into a discussion about stuff like fish/whalebucket as a whole

[paper temple]

sure, but even if it's just 3 different characters, thats 4 times the amount of paper or scripts to have to make

[nocturne tapir]

no im just saying... make the script bigger in general

like add the potential characters in the first place

[paper temple]

and just remove characters?

[nocturne tapir]

for removal it can just be 'This is not in-play at all'

not too complex

[warm tinsel]

I think this is the first time I've ever seen "my" in a character ability

[nocturne tapir]

ive made compromises before as to not disrupt the flow of the game that i could imagine this as being reasonable

[paper temple]

but that's barely any different from just saying "this can be in-play"

[nocturne tapir]

but they won't be physically included on the script

[paper temple]

true

but if you're adding 1 character

like this would be

that is absolutely fine

[nocturne tapir]

its definitely nitpicky but i feel its important considering a big job for the ST is making sure everyone is onboard to the game at their best capability

[nocturne tapir]

true, although how far can 1 character really take the game, especially when really good scripts just have all the characters they need

[paper temple]

it doesn't need to massively change the game

like it can just be adding something new, to change up claims a little for the next game or just cause someone really likes the character

I like that use of the loric at least

[dark veldt]

The initial idea behind Maskmaker was actually because I was making a script for a friend's birthday, and she said one of her favorite characters is Boomdandy

[paper temple]

that sounds like a lovely use of it!

[nocturne tapir]

true. idk how practical that would be since my friends dont care much about BOTC outside of our sessions, so their general knowledge of characters that don't exist on the script is very limited. im genuinely not sure how much those kinds of people encapsulate the BOTC playerbase as a whole

i understand that in china BOTC is as popular as games like spymasters, catan, bang! and most players are only familiar with whats just in front of them, although this info is word-of-mouth from a chinese coworker

[proper kraken]

Quori started with the goal to create such a character iirc

One that used the word “my”

[warm tinsel]

Interesting

[nocturne tapir]

also i touched one of those BOTC chinese cards - they feel so weird that it makes my skin tingle

[proper kraken]

Or me or otherwise was in first person

[dark veldt]

It was! I wanted to make a character that used a first person pronoun, and so I tried to think of what traits were inherent to the character itself

[nocturne tapir]

i also want to raise a concern with how incompatible this is with the app (i think, i have not used it in months) and clocktower.live

[warm tinsel]

My script layouts are 3 columns so this would be buffed massively lol

[proper kraken]

Quori was designed with 2 column and 1 column in mind

[warm tinsel]

But it seems ok in the normal 2 column layout

[proper kraken]

Or rather, the current version is

It used to just be “characters below me” but the new script tool meant Ice had to give it some more thought

And then realized it could see specific evil characters as well

[dark veldt]

Quori was originally made for single collumn scripting (until recently it was "You know 2 players whose characters are below me.") but after toying with the way it plays with 2 collumns I liked it more

Depending on how you look at the script, it might be hard to remember where the "collumns" are. Typically, if the Quori is in the first 7 Townsfolk, then they can learn any of them and the 1st 2 characters of other character types. Likewise, if the Quori is in the last 6, they can often learn any of the last 6 Townsfolk and the last 2 characters of other character types. There are unconventional scripts that create other possibilities, though!

[nocturne tapir]

wouldnt this cause a perceived issue with rolebuckets in this case?

[dark veldt]

It's a little finnicky to recall when using apps n stuff, but it's not too difficult

[nocturne tapir]

i dont have that issue, but i understand that other players definitely do

[proper kraken]

It’s probably not good to use with rolebuckets

[dark veldt]

Rolebuckets?

[proper kraken]

Fishbucket and whale bucket

[dark veldt]

like fishbucket, whalebucket, etc.?

[nocturne tapir]

that is absolutely not it

rolebuckets are the SDG term for a designated group/bracket of characters that fall into a specific investigative result, thus making evil characters in that group be forced to claim a good character in it, limiting what they can truly claim

[proper kraken]

Also, a hint for future attractions. One of the characters (not this one) is something I have described as the unholy child of a certain Demon and a certain Outsider

At least one of which was already game warping as an offical character

[nocturne tapir]

this falls from Town of Salem's Investigator, Throne of Lie's Princess (Flirt ability)

[dark veldt]

ahh gotcha

[proper kraken]

Oh like Chambermaid stuff

[dark veldt]

Yeah, this encourages evil players to bluff within their collumn, but I'm hoping it doesn't do it so intensely as to make other plays non-viable. It was a thing I was thinking about, and while that aspect of the character might not be for everyone, I don't think it's problematic

[nocturne tapir]

yeah, although chambermaid is less egregious in BMR due to the weird waking patterns of some characters like GF, Assassin, and Zombuul

[proper kraken]

Also Chambermaid chooses 2 players at once

Quori learns 2 but knows who should be who

[nocturne tapir]

i think 2 columns is good and i dont have an issue with it myself, but i understand that for others it may be super offputting because at the same time, the designated buckets may just feel arbitrary and chokeholdy

especially when you order by SAO

this is the criticism i had with the Navigator that forced my hand at using the 'Marked' mechanic

[proper kraken]

Assuming standard Ravenswood format, there should be 8 good characters in each column besides Quori

Evil would need to call out one of those if their goal is to blend into Quori

[nocturne tapir]

but those characters would typically be YSKs, EN, EN*, and ED

so evils are gravitated away from passive characters like soldier, paci, fool, magician, pg, etc

atleast for TF

[proper kraken]

Unless they are on that side of the Quori column, no?

[nocturne tapir]

i dont imagine it being that egregious for outsiders, minions, and demons

[dark veldt]

I also just don't reccomend using Quori with standard script ordering

[nocturne tapir]

ah mb i was thinking the 1st column only

cause thats what i had for navigator

[proper kraken]

Well I meant more the amount of characters

The 25

[nocturne tapir]

still, that just does the same pull but in the opposite direction

evils cant easily fake YSKs or EN then on

[proper kraken]

It would depend on which evil character you are. But yeah, it does make bluffing outside your bucket far more risky

[nocturne tapir]

which is why i made Navigator used marked so there would ST control and flexibility in said brackets

[dark veldt]

Anyway, let's begin our star performance!

[proper kraken]

I will say that necessarily doesn’t work with Quori, since in this case, it’s supposed to be visually intuitive by script rose

[dark veldt]

FROM THE ASHES OF THE LAST CULL,

BUT SHINING BRIGHTER THAN EVER BEFORE

[nocturne tapir]

pls be worm 🤞 pls be worm 🤞 pls be worm 🤞

[dark veldt]

PLEASE PUT YOUR HANDS TOGETHER FOR THE GRANDEST CHARACTER OF ALL

THE ONE, THE ONLY, THE ALL

THE ALLLPHEEEERAAAAAAAAAA

[nocturne tapir]

oh hey this

[dark veldt]

Each day you may publicly guess every player's character: if all are correct, your team wins.

The constellation blinked

If the Alphera sees everything, the world ends.

• Each day, the Alphera can publicly guess every player's character. If every character (good and evil) is correct, their team immediately wins.
• If they get any wrong, nothing happens. It is not explained why nothing happens.
• If they get any characters wrong, they can try again the next day. The Alphera does not need to guess every day.
• Other players can pretend to be the Alphera. Only the Alphera can win by correctly guessing every player.

[nocturne tapir]

feels incredibly weak cause you need to out your own demon for the wincon

so its very mastermind coded

has no secondary ability to help with that

[proper kraken]

“Only the Alphera can win by correctly guessing every player”

The humble Alchemist

/j.

[nocturne tapir]

for these kinds of wincon characters predicating on detering or manipulating good player behaviour, i feel as though they are incredibly weak and ineffective for not having any secondary ability to help them actually make the moves needed

[dark veldt]

in my experience playing with Alphera, I'd say it's balance has felt pretty ok.

It's definitely not as strong as it looks at first glance, but it can be quite intimidating.

If memory serves correct I think in 4 Alphera games I've seen 2 Alphera wins and 2 very close guesses (1 or 2 characters off)

But I suppose we near the end of our fated performance

FOR THE PENULTIMATE CHARACTER OF THIS RELEASE

PLEASE PUT YOUR EYES ON

[nocturne tapir]

still 0 wormussy 😔

[dark veldt]

THE AWAITED

THE FATED

PROOOOOOOPHHEEEEEEET

Once per game, you may give the Storyteller a statement & they'll give you 1 they agree with as much.
"Things beyond my vision...Can you accept me as your own?"

The Prophet agrees with the world.

• Once per game, they may give the Storyteller any statement they want.
• The Storyteller will, at some point, give a statement that they think is about as true.
• For statements that are objectively true or false, this means giving one that matches in veracity. Subjective statements, however, will be based on the Storyteller's opinions.
• The Storyteller doesn't need to give the Prophet their statement right away. They can wait until future days or give it during the night. However, if the Prophet has given the Storyteller a statement, they must respond with another one at some point, even if the Prophet dies.

[nocturne tapir]

feels

[proper kraken]

Scrounger is back in business

[nocturne tapir]

confusing

[dusty tendon]

Feels awesome

[proper kraken]

You basically craft your own Savant info for 1 day

Or you do a subjective thing and vibes check the ST

[dusty tendon]

I love some subjective connections

[nimble stratus]

this is awesome

[proper kraken]

(nvm not Savant)

Idk I keep getting caught cause it’s 2 statements

But yeah, you get 2 statements, 1 of which you chose

And you can do that for objective info or more subjective ideas

[dusty tendon]

Seems super interesting when you give a statement that is partially true, that is gonna be a weird puzzle to solve

Very cool

[nocturne tapir]

hmm

not sure how to feel. it feels awkward to run since you need to find a statement that aligns nicely with the player input

with that potential in mind, it feels easier to just use fisherman instead

or even artist

[dark veldt]

Alright, folks, I think the time has come for the last character of the Eye Patch

Warning, the following content is experimental, controversial, and will center any script you put it on around itself. Do not engage if you are not prepared. You have been warned.

[warm tinsel]

Whoah this is cool

[dark veldt]

Let's begin the Circus Music

(not sure how to flavor this announcement so I won't)

FOR THE FINAL CHARACTER OF THIS RELEASE

PLEASE GATHER ROUND

[proper kraken]

Something about splitting neighbor against neighbor, living against dead?

[dark veldt]

FOR THE WORLD SHIFTING, VIRTURE BURNING

BACKSTABBING, NEIGHBOR AGAINST NEIGHBOR

CONSPIRING, AGRANDIZING, MASTERMINDING JESUS CHRIST JUST GET TO IT ALREADY

THE SIIINNNEEEEEERRRRRRRR

If 2 players live, even if you don't, the most recently killed executee's team wins. Dead Townsfolk are evil.
"You ask for pens and glasses faster than balms and stitches."

One Sinner makes everyone look evil.

• If any Townsfolk die while the Sinner lives, they turn evil that night. If the Sinner dies, then players who die after them do not change alignment.
• If 2 players live, the team of the last player who died by execution wins. This happens even if this player wasn't executed on the final day, or if the Sinner is dead.
• To clarify, this means that (on most scripts) killing the Demon on the final day will result in the evil team winning. Killing the Demon earlier will not.
• Players who survive execution, or are already dead when they are executed, are not the most recently killed executee.
• Once only 2 players live, the game ends before the Sinner's ability would change anyone's alignment.
• If the Sinner dies in the same night as other players, then make sure to consult the Night Order. Townsfolk who died before the Sinner turn evil, but any afterward don’t.

[proper kraken]

For reference, this is the hint I have earlier

The unholy offspring of Legion and Heretic

[nocturne tapir]

is this tf or outsider

[proper kraken]

Outsider

[dark veldt]

Outsider

[warm tinsel]

Legionlike outsider

[nocturne tapir]

thank f

[warm tinsel]

It can be done

[nocturne tapir]

yeah seems as solid as heretic

[warm tinsel]

Pretty cool

[proper kraken]

It’s really fucked in the best way

A soft hive mind of the dead and a way for good to win by convince the dead they are the real Demon

[dark veldt]

(the text on the token is slightly innacurate bc I was writing it from memory at like 2am. The one in the message is accurate.)

[nocturne tapir]

1st char ive seen i might add to a script if i do more clocktower again

seems dope

are there any more releases for today?

[proper kraken]

Nope

[nocturne tapir]

or is this really the end

damn

oh well

[proper kraken]

The end of today

[dark veldt]

really the end, you can go home folks

[nocturne tapir]

atleast 1 here looks good so thats nice

although im just theorycrafting at this point

[dark veldt]

here are all the tokens together for anyone who wants that

All the almanacs are now on the Notion!

[inner cradle]

Wait 5 releases at once that's awesome

These look great ::D

I don't fully understand sinner's dynamic tho

[warm tinsel]

This is a great drop

I think I'm most interested in Prophet

Sinner seems very very volatile as you said

I think I would need to see it play out to be fully sold

[dark veldt]

On the last day, the team of the executed player is the one that wins. However, since a sizable chunk of the dead are evil, they want to be executing the Demon. So for the dead evil players, they're trying to find a Demon that, unlike usual, wants to be found. Meanwhile, for the alive good players, their goal is to look the most like the Demon in order to trick the dead

[nocturne tapir]

the dead can no longer be trusted and will conspire against good

[inner cradle]

Ah so it's an intentional soi break where the whole deal is they're as uncoordinated as is feasible?

[dark veldt]

yep!

[inner cradle]

Very interesting

I'm gonna trust you that it works lol

And under the assumption that it does work, it's extremely cool

[dark veldt]

I'm also under the assumption this works, I'm yet to playtest it

[inner cradle]

LOL

Fire

[dark veldt]

I've toyed around with it in hypothetical Grimoires and stuff and I'm yet to see it fully break? The fact that dead Outsiders (including the Sinner themself) remain good, and that the turning people stops when the Sinner dies helps to keep this in check

[inner cradle]

So wait the sinner wants to die asap and also shut up?

Ooh, hello damsel play pattern

(with obvious differences)

[nimble stratus]

damsel-barber 2: the sequel

[warm tinsel]

Huh that's interesting

[inner cradle]

Get ready for sinner + worker

[warm tinsel]

I was thinking about that lmao

[dark veldt]

actually there's something in the Sinner's dynamic I'll add to the almanac that I probably removed at some point because I forgot why it was there

[warm tinsel]

I was thinking about sinner just outing d1 and getting executed, giving good a much better chance in f3. Then I remembered minions can live to f3 so that's ok.

[dark veldt]

basically it checks the alignment at the moment they're executed, so if you skip on f3 with a Townsfolk are your "last executee" then good wins

[dark veldt]

Sinner sacrificing themself like that is also a little strange bc like... Sinner dying helps the good team's odds of winning but it doesn't necessarily help the odds for the players who are currently good.

[dusty tendon]

I’ve been thinking about prophet, so nice that you can tailor it to what level of info you can handle

You can just say something like “I am the prophet” if you really don’t want to be responsible for a huge puzzle

[old bridge]

holy shit five cakes

btw Quori has a typo in “column”

i think??

[dark veldt]

Omg this whole time it has been 1 l

I knew it looked off for some reason lmao

[solid lake]

I have been making a Maskmaker script for a bit now

All about Maskmaker always favouring the Ravenkeeper

8 Ravenkeepers ‼️

[dark veldt]

beep beep next release will be pretty damn soonish

it felt slightly cringe that this update didn't feature a Demon, so I'm giving you all a Demon that still sucks to script with

I'm also tossing in 2 Townsfolk that I really should've just released already

[inner bluff]

oh shit the alphera's back

hasn't it already been a thing for a while though? whats it doing here

[proper kraken]

It’s been a thing on TLC for a while. But now it’s formally part of this character collection

Which means that Ice has arranged it so it’s more accessible for people who wanna build hybrid homebrew with it

[dark veldt]

Maskmaker json doesn't really work so uhh

I'm gonna do something stupid that will make it indeed work

[dark veldt]

Played a UnreleasedCircusMusic bucket game and it was insane

good lost because they forgot to build Fang Gu worlds

this was the drawing for the Bug Collector! If you're curious what it means: || The Bug Collector was poisoned ||

[nocturne tapir]

i interpreted it as 'Homeslice got girth and needs gorilla glue in his fucking orifices' but that makes sense tooo

[dark veldt]

ew

[rotund magnet]

[nocturne tapir]

waho.... dmeon...

[dark veldt]

timeline update:

• December update will contain 3 Townsfolk & 1 Demon
• Late December / January (possibly February bc ya girl is d-d-depressed and b-b-b-busy) Master Json and updated NO
• Sometime after (I'm banking on Marchish, but don't hold your breath) a new Minion.

I think Circus Music getting like, somewhere in the ballpark of 2 updates every 3 months is an upload schedule I can manage

[dark veldt]

This was kind of a lie. It's mostly done, I've even playtested all but 1 character from it, it's just that I'm very busy. All the art is done tho so like. As soon as my winter holiday starts it's mostly the coding and these characters aren't very jinx heavy.

also I can say that in practice, a lot of the characters I have plans to release are better than I thought they were. The new Demon in particular is really weird, but ended up being a lot of fun. Also I don't think I'll share the script I tested them with because it sucks, there's Nightwatchman, Farmer, and one of the Homebrew Townies is basically unbluffable on that script

[heavy haven]

to be honest that's impressively high homebrew output as far as I'm concerned
(TPI's got a whole team of people on it, and look how long it takes them!)

[nimble stratus]

they churn out character ideas, but their standards for release are suuuuuper high

[night ibex]

Um excuse me so are ours lmao

[nimble stratus]

i’m not going to argue the point

nor am i calling homebrew characters inherently bad or untested or anything like that

[inner cradle]

Yes but TPI has more standards as well

Because they're also shipping a product

[dark veldt]

btw, with the Master Json update I'm planning on doing a lot; it's basically going to be "rereleasing" every Circus Music character
-# sigh, including Caliban

But part of that is potentially reworking a few characters, and after thinking about it I'd prefer feedback before just pushing the changes and saying "deal with it"

Caliban -- The way Caliban currently works on a mechanical level is funny, but I think after a lot of consideration it's probably not healthy. This change does completely remove turning dead players, but honestly that was a meme strat anyway.

Once per game, at night, the Demon chooses which alive player is an evil Caliban. [No one is Caliban, +1 Outsider]

Trickster -- Dead players having no reason to play into Trickster madness feels janky. It also feels like what the ST deems as "madness" for the Trickster's info should be a little more opaque (I like that Trickster can learn that a player is evil as is, that's cool, it just feels hard to interpret in a kind of lame way). I think ST guidance would be to almost always show a new alive good player to the Trickster, but giving other options should make it feel a little less janky.

Each night*, learn the alignment of 1 player who was "mad" you're evil today.

Prodigy -- changes lack a wording so far. The intent with Prodigy was that it would be used with Demons who don't kill at night (like the Leviathan), and that it being so strange in other contexts was simply the price paid. I no longer feel satisfied with this. Prodigy as it stands is far too risky, and I doubt would ever be a ton of fun. I think I want to shift Prodigy so that it only activates if the good team kills the Demon. I also want to fix the atrocious syntax, because while it is interesting, it is not very clear what it means.

[inner cradle]

Hmmm trickster learning alignment outright feels like it could possibly lead to bad metas

Learning nobody has plausible deniability that they broke madness. But if 1 evil player is mad you're just forced to show them

I like removing "alive"

And just making it "STs pls pls give alive players unless you have a really good reason not to"

-# also what if you used this opportunity to change the spelling to trixter it would be so awesome it would be so cool

[dark veldt]

I was thinking about that

I'm...quite conflicted

mostly bc there's no "reason" for it to be called Trixter aside from the many many several reasons people call it Trixter

[inner cradle]

It's cool!!!!

Trickster is a fine name and nothing is wrong with it

But like trixter is better for entirely inconsequential reasons

[inner bluff]

silly rabbit, trixter is for kids

[rotund magnet]

I'm just gonna ask here, but isn't the point of trickster that people genuinely think you are evil while trying to avoid execution? In that case, I can see dead players building worlds where you are evil even without them having a reason for it.

[dark veldt]

That is...fair

[torn ledge]

speak for yourself buddy

[dark veldt]

also it sounds like from the feedback I'm hearing, it sounds like people are fine with the Caliban and Prodigy changes, but (outside of potentially changing the "cks" to "x") I'll leave Trickster alone

[heavy haven]

I didn't have much to say before because it took me a while to internalize what these changes might mean, but here's my input for whatever it's worth:

• Caliban changes seem healthy (albeit quite small). I still liked the dead player Caliban personally, and I'm not 100% sure what the word alive really fixes here, but that's a small loss on a great character.
• Trickster...I'm usually a fan of more flexibility, but I actually think the proposed reword weirdly gives the ST less flexibility (for the aforementioned situation where 1 evil is the only choice) so I guess I concur with the majority opinion.
• Prodigy! With no specific change proposed, I dunno how I feel about it totally, but I think brushing up the wording on it is a great idea anyways. I do adore current Prodigy's feeling, my hope is that that will be preserved going forward, but we shall see :)

Also, will old wordings only be preserved in this thread, or is there any plan to implement a changelog/history in the Notion?
I might suggest a changelog if nothing else to make sure nobody references the character from the notion and gets confused as to the sudden difference if they missed the drop here

[dark veldt]

• It's worth noting that Caliban turning a dead player would still keep them good. While I do recognize that removing what is essentially the choice to remove a dead player's ability does technically give the Demon fewer options, it was always the intent with Caliban that once you died you knew for certain which team you were playing for and could be trusted accordingly. I suppose I could change that, but from my perspective (having not played with the character much) it feels like it'd make Caliban games a lot harder for good.
• Aye aye!
• My plans will change Prodigy's feeling somewhat. The biggest shift will be that since it only affects executing the Demon, the Prodigy gets to be a lot less covert when solving their info. I think this will make it a lot less Heretic-y on most scripts, and a lot more itself. If the feeling is that this wouldn't be a good change, then I'm open to just brushing up the wording without changing the mechanic. Atleast for now, though, it feels awkward that the character is essentially a second Heretic from a scripting perspective, when on the tin it looks like it'd be very different.
• Old wordings will be in this thread, I have no intention to go back and change/remove anything from here. I think I could put a changelog in the Notion, although I'd probably start it with the MasterJson update just for my own sanity.

[heavy haven]

These all make sense to me! I agree the prior Caliban function was unintuitive. What I was trying (and failing) to get at was that the new wording could open up that possibility -- if that play pattern is desireable.

Prodigy felt somewhere between Heretic and Puzzlemaster to me, and I do think it's probably nice to lean it more toward the latter. :)

[leaden stone]

Can someone talk me down from replacing Butler in TB with Shepard?

[night ibex]

The play styles are very very different. A Butler simply has to choose whoever they vote similarly to (or a player who votes a lot), whereas the Shepherd is a Heretic of sorts — if the Demon knows who you are, you could be fucked.

[leaden stone]

Right. With a Spy and Shepard you are basically forced to eat an execution

[night ibex]

And to state the obvious, Shepherd is an expert character — a homebrew, at that. Not to say that homebrew characters are intrinsically expert, but considering that you’re talking about replacing characters on TB, I assume that you’re just looking for an alternative for new players and/or those that don’t like Butler, and TB is supposed to be a beginner script — Shepherd, on the other hand, wasn’t made for beginner scripts, lmao

[dark veldt]

I wouldn't say Shepherd is expert necessarily, but it's certainly far from beginner. Your group needs a strong handle on bluffing, executions, as well as how & when to out evil or sacrifice evil players (as bluffing Shepherd will almost always require one of those 2).

but yeah, Shepherd on TB is probably not ideal for Shepherd, or ideal for the overall script.

[wintry cairn]

Circus Music Master JSON (17/11/25)

Sinner JSON:

• Team is "Outsider", needs to be "outsider" or it's not recognized by the script tool.
• Riot jinx has a comma at the end that's causing an error.

[dark veldt]

Chat, I think I've worded the Prodigy changes I want to make

[dark veldt]

You start knowing everyone with a trait & guess it each day, even if dead. If you haven't guessed true, executed Demons win.

[inner bluff]

oh, making it so other game ending effects still win like normal?

oh shit wait

oh god yeah itd effect the demon self-killing okay yeah this is a good call

[dark veldt]

yeah that was the main thing I wanted to change lol. I wanted Prodigy to be more like itself and less like Heretic

[heavy haven]

I like this change, personally.

[dark veldt]

I do intend to release a few more characters before the Masterjson update, but since the Masterjson update is going to be so big (I'm essentially redoing the json for all released characters, and thus using it as a chance to "redo" a lot of characters) I've been working on changes that will be pushed then now

that includes the changes I've vetted before (Caliban, Prodigy, and the ultimately nilled Trixter changes {aside from the name} ), but it also includes some more changes I've been thinking about combing over all my released characters tonight

[dark veldt]

Again though, since I'm changing released content pretty significantly, I want to make sure that the vibes are generally that these changes are what's best for these characters.

I've got some plans for a Worker change (that's probably a nerf over all?) and a Seer change (which is definitely a nerf {I know, I'm surprised too} ), but I'm gonna wait a second longer for those to stew and for me to feel confident that I personally like those changes before gettting community feedback. For characters with changes I do feel confident about:

Kenku -- Ever so slightly too hard to script with. While I still think it will shine best on scripts where it is the only explaination for multiple night deaths, the fact that scripts where it's possible, no matter how niche (IE Legion, Wizard, Ojo), make it completely useless feels wrong. This change shouldn't effect how Kenku works in its ideal environment but, similar to the Prodigy changes, should make it function more normally regardless of context.

Each night*, choose a player: if they’d die tonight, learn 2 good players who die instead.

Candlemaker -- Candlemaker not caring about dying at all feels like a very compromised mechanic, largely because it was. With this change, the Candlemaker effect will persist past their death, but it must be used while they're alive. Additionally, the exact way it activates has been changed to make Candlemaker handle alignment scuffery in more intuitive ways; this had the added bonus of smoothing out the Lil Monsta and Legion interactions.

Once per game, publicly choose a player: if alive & not the Demon, they win if & only if you do, even if you died.

Curionist will be a seperate message bc Discord character cap.

Curionist -- This is easily the most experimental of the changes I'm flooring tonight, but it feels very needed. Curionist is meant to be a source of trackable misinfo that doesn't affect how players will want to claim. However, in practice, because the poison can move so much it essentially acts as a double Poisoner. It is notably weaker, but in ways that don't feel super entertaining. I'm proposing this change to keep the general intent of the character intact, while hopefully providing it a more balanced feeling for both teams.

On your 1st night, choose 2 players: they're poisoned. The Storyteller may prompt you to choose differently.

[inner bluff]

no more being able to temp poison your demon for shenanigans if they're a vortox or something? 😔

[nocturne tapir]

really like the new Kenku change

i remember i wanted to use it earlier in a script with multiple death sources but never did cause of fears that it was an outsider in townsfolk clothing

[inner bluff]

yeah it learning who it killed helps a ton

[dark veldt]

Next character batch coming quite soonish

All I got left are jinxes & tokens, and these aren't really characters to have many jinxes

[weak stone]

Batch is trademarked /j

[dark veldt]

Fuck! The next uhh

Performance there we go that's circus themed

[dark veldt]

Also one ability is changing slightly because I realized it interacted poorly with most Outsiders lol

[surreal nebula]

[No Outsiders] hot fix

[dark veldt]

In the interim, here's the Seer change I'm thinking for MasterJSON. I'm thinking I won't go through on the Worker change.

Seer -- Right now the Seer dynamic like "works" but just barely so. This is especially the case where at higher player counts it's really inpheasable for good to properly bluff Minions, and the level of whisper tracking needed to stop evil comms just like, despite my best wishes, isn't going to happen. Idk, I think my ideal version of Seer is one that makes players reconsider the role that whispering in their games, and makes it a riskier action than normal, but is still a valid thing that players can do. I dunno if this version of Seer achieves that, and maybe Seer as is is fine, but the way Seer plays atm doesn't feel like how it should when you look at the ability text and this should help to alleviate that.

Each night*, see the Grimoire & choose a player: they die. Minions steal 1 bluff & know you (& only you). You don't know them.

so this is technically a nerf to Seer, a Demon which isn't like, super strong, but I think it's a fun nerf. It makes the interesting elements of the character more prominent

[near forum]

is this not just a buff to seer?

to be clear, i like this version more, i just don’t think it’s really a nerf

[dark veldt]

The intended mechanical change is that Minions no longer know each other which they did before

[near forum]

so the part about the minions misregistering to your grim is meant to be there still?

or did i hallucinate that

[dark veldt]

It's meant to be covered by the "You don't know them", but that is a bit confusing

[near forum]

oh

then i am not as keen on this change

[dark veldt]

Would you mind elaborating?

[near forum]

i thought the change made it so that the evil team was effectively (not fully but you get the idea) poppy-grown for the first night until the seer got the grim and could start looping everyone in, which seemed like an interesting trade off between perfect knowledge and evil not being able to communicate effectively for the first day cycle

i think the current proposed change is probably more interesting than the current version of seer, but it's a nerf to an already fairly weak demon (imo) and i think the dynamic it creates is less interesting than the version i misinterpreted

but also i'm pretty sure that dynamic isn't the dynamic you want with seer anyway

[dark veldt]

Yeah, I think that summarizes a lot of my thoughts too

this is more Seer, but it's not like Seer is particularly strong and this is a notable nerf

[inner bluff]

interesting idea, might be too swingy though:

what if minions knew each other, but didn’t know who the seer was

[dark veldt]

My gut says that that makes things too weak, because the Demon wouldn't have anyone who knows to advoate on their behalf

[small elbow]

from a script with a bootlegger rule i made yeah the minions just feel super sad even when knowing each other

[dark veldt]

After making a list and checking it once, I think this performance is fine without jinxes. One of 'em can be slightly problematic with Pit-Hag and Barber, but not to a degree where I think it's jinx worthy

Which, on that note, means the performance will start in a bit. I got some irl affairs to attend to first rq, and after that we can get started

[dark veldt]

Alright folks! Enough slacking let's get into cracking these characters open!

In our upcoming performance, last before the Masterjson update, we have 3 new Townies and 1 brand spankin' new Demon