MTG Color Pie Scripts

[ripe fern]

RW is what i was thinking for gambler but RG also works

[round aurora]

Gossip

Also known as: How Black do you want it?

Tell the truth? An ally drops dead

[tawdry nest]

I think it's Izzit

Very strongly

[round aurora]

Maybe full Grixis? Because its main ability comes as sacrificing its allies.

[austere iris]

gaining strong information at significant risk, yeah that seems more red than black

[tawdry nest]

Info of any type
At any cost

[round aurora]

But it has the full liberty and creativity for info gathering as an Artist

It's an Artist every day, you just have to throw allies into the meatgrinder

[austere iris]

the fact that the death is a risk and not guaranteed leans me to not black

[tawdry nest]

I could see black
But I feel like it's more random

Like they aren't exploiting anyone

They just kill people when they get info
Even themselves

[sharp peak]

Yeah, that feels very red black to me

[tawdry nest]

RUB could be it

[round aurora]

I think this fits with the Gossip, this line about Grixis:

The aggressive madness of Black/Red, the boundless genius of Blue/Red, and the cold rationality of Blue/Black combines into a mindset that would tend to care nothing for others except as tools or opponents.

[austere iris]

I can see full grixis

[round aurora]

Aggressive Madness, Boundless Genius, and Cold Rationality

[austere iris]

base red or base blue

[round aurora]

It's like an Izzet who is a lot more eagerly willing to ignore safety.

Grandmother - Red, White
Sailor - Red, Black
Chambermaid - Blue
Exorcist - White(, Blue?)
Innkeeper - White, Red
Gambler - Green, Red
Gossip - Blue, Black, Red

Courtier!

This one is interesting

Feels Red in a way, the freedom to choose any role, including a Good one, to make drunk.

Through one action, causing a lot of longer term damage to the enemy.

[tawdry nest]

Feels sort of Blue Black to me

Maybe mono White?

[round aurora]

Hmm. Black would imply a sense of exploitation or parasitism. But Courtier is using their ability typically to stop the enemy from hurting the group.

While it could drunk allies, it typically would never want to

White does fit as while Courtier isn't inherently a protection role, it functions much like one

Blue could also fit. It is very indirect, but its ability to drunk an Evil role means it can either remove one possibility from analysis later on making solving easier, or fully counter an ability in play. If it counters the DA, it means anyone surviving execution must be Good.

[austere iris]

courtier is about making proactive responses to possible threats

I can see it being blue and something else

[round aurora]

Perhaps a full Jeskai?

White and Blue are proactive planners, making their actions in advance for long term gain.

But it has the full freedom of action like Red.

[austere iris]

RWU base white maybe?

peace through knowledge and action

[round aurora]

Yeah

If it fails to bring about peace via cancelling an ability, it gains knowledge at least that the ability isn't in play

Or, it can be more assured effects like those abilities come from Good players rather than Evil players

"Masters of Confusion Fu, the Indy Ploy, and Xanatos Speed Chess, the Jeskai combine Red's fast-hitting and aggressive tactics with Blue's careful planning and White's versatility. They are the epitome of the Subversive faction in Faction Calculus, using unorthodox methods to radically alter the way the game is played and turn alliances on their head, all while being able to quickly adapt to any new situation. "

Main thing that is weak here is that Courtier isn't too adaptive once its used its ability

But if it was patient and holds it for the right moment?

VERY

Professor

White? It can raise the dead, but not in an exploitative manner. It brings back an ally and helps the group, and then does not much else. It can hard confirm itself and someone else as trustworthy, bringing more order.

There is some sense of Blue in that it is willing to adapt the situation to better suit an ideal, seeking improvement via bringing back powerful roles. Green as well for restoring life in a more careful manner.

[austere iris]

professor seems mono-white to me

[round aurora]

Yeah, could just be White

[austere iris]

WG maybe, but I’d lean just white

[round aurora]

Nothing about it is Black.

It's not sacrificing anyone else. It's bringing someone back, but not in a manner that exploits them.

It's hardly selfish.

The Professor does get the personal benefit of confirmation, but that is more incidental.

I could say mono White.

Anyone else have thoughts on it being just White, or any other colors Professor also fits with?

Minstrel

This one is... kinda funny.

I could see White/Black.

It helps the group by protecting everyone and confirming a Minion got executed!.... By ruining everyone's abilities-

It's technically entirely fair! (White) Just don't mind the cost. (Black)

[austere iris]

I think it's red

it's a powerful ability that comes with a double edged sword, themed around celebrations from success

[round aurora]

It doesn't fit with Blue since it destroys knowledge worse than the Vortox does and is very chaotic as a consequence.
Green... it doesn't really preserve abilities, in fact, it subverts everyone's role and makes everyone drunk.

I can see Red due to the cost, but it seems its form of cost is one fitting of Black and White. It's like a Teferi's Protection, total shut down of the game for a night when it succeeds. It brings about civility and order by pure force, nothing able to stop it once it starts.

Perhaps Red and White?

It brings about order through a chaotic means

[austere iris]

I can see red and white

peace through action

[round aurora]

"Nothing works!"
"That's how you know its working!"

It's taking two negatives from both White and Red and combining them in a useful if silly manner

White's authoritarian nature + Red's chaotic nature

Sure it technically brings about Harmony, but I think Green would see it as unnatural

Bringing about Harmony by making things not work how they are suppose to would not be pleasing for anything Green-aligned

Tea Lady

White. Protects its neighbors if both are Good, and refuses to give its protection otherwise. Both the protective nature of it, but also the xenophobic nature of it.

[austere iris]

yeah, definitely white

[round aurora]

It could also demand a test of its neighbors

But that's also still potentially White

[austere iris]

not especially any other colors?

[round aurora]

If both their neighbors are Good, the Tea Lady can't kill them anyway if they get them executed

[austere iris]

testing neighbors, knowing that if they're pure they'll be safe, can be white

[round aurora]

So it's not exploiting them, not exactly

And if a neighbor dies, the Tea Lady has good reason to be suspicious

It's also not really Red. It just sits there. Protecting.
Not really Blue either.

I think the same can be said of the Pacifist

Very White given its protection

But the fact that it is less reliable and more at the whim of the ST makes it a wild card.

It also extends its protection to the whole community

It's not really acting though

Pacifist is perhaps WG?

[austere iris]

definitely white, I can see how it could be greed

[round aurora]

It completely works to protect the group, save the community, and keep harmony. It wants acceptance as well, since it protects the accused and keeps them alive to try again. It preserves.

[austere iris]

it's a purely passive ability, reliant on acceptance to work

[round aurora]

Yeah. Requires a bit of faith on the Pacifist's part.

And for people to trust the Pacifist that it saved people

Grandmother - Red, White
Sailor - Red, Black
Chambermaid - Blue
Exorcist - White(, Blue?)
Innkeeper - White, Red
Gambler - Green, Red
Gossip - Blue, Black, Red
Courtier - White, Blue(, Red?)
Professor - White
Minstrel - White, Red
Tea Lady - White
Pacifist - White, Green

Lastly... the Fool

It... can't protect anyone else, so it doesn't get White from there xP

It can foil Evil's ability to kill them. Once.

It could play risky and get themselves executed to confirm themselves

But... I'm not sure what colors fit it here-

[tawdry nest]

Red?

[austere iris]

I'd lean green, honestly

admittedly, in large part because this is mechanically already a thing in magic, in bant colors

[round aurora]

Indestructible tends to be an effect on White and Green cards, but Fool is more like having a Shield counter

Which is Bant, yeah

[austere iris]

yep

[round aurora]

It mostly appears on White cards, but also on Blue and Green cards

https://scryfall.com/search?q=fulloracle%3A"Shield+counter"

It appears one Red card gets it, but its White Red, so still more from White

The pure Red card is about destroying Shield counters.

Could leave it at White, Green, Blue, because the way Fool acts mechanically is a bit weak to the specific philosophies, and mechanically it matches best with the Shield counter?

If a Fool plays aggressive, I think "Reckless fool throwing themselves into danger to prove their own invincibility"... which is Red. But if they play passively, it's Bant.

[austere iris]

see, I really don't see any part of the fool as particularly white or blue

... red green?

[round aurora]

Gruul? Fool isn't aggressive, it's very self protective.

It feels like it REALLY depends here on the player

_<

If you get yourself executed Day one?

Reckless showoff. Red

If you hide and wait to finally die, giving you more information later on about the correct number of kills?

Much more White

[austere iris]

fair enough

[round aurora]

Especially if you're baiting kills on yourself.

[austere iris]

red white works

[round aurora]

Thematically, Fool seems more Rakdos. But mechanically, there's nothing Black about the Fool.

So, it's more Red or White, rather than Red and White.

It just depends too much on how the player plays it

I suppose though baiting kills onto yourself and risking your own life for the sake of the group is a very Red/White kind of hero behavior

Grandmother - Red, White
Sailor - Red, Black
Chambermaid - Blue
Exorcist - White(, Blue?)
Innkeeper - White, Red
Gambler - Green, Red
Gossip - Blue, Black, Red
Courtier - White, Blue(, Red?)
Professor - White
Minstrel - White, Red
Tea Lady - White
Pacifist - White, Green
Fool - White, Red

That is a LOT of White/Red roles

Grandmother, Innkeeper, Minstrel, and Fool

Unsurpising that we got a lot of White and Red there

Not as much Black as I'd suspect

[austere iris]

surprisingly few killers in BMR's tf

[round aurora]

Tinker

[austere iris]

we'll see a lot more in the other types

[round aurora]

https://tenor.com/view/house-explosion-explode-boom-kaboom-gif-19506150

Boom

Red

[austere iris]

red

[round aurora]

@tawdry nest @ripe fern Any debate on Tinker being Mono-Red, also known as, BOOM

(Also pin please for the TFs above)

Goon

Black. Looks out for itself, and does so by harming its own allies to be on their team. Can be changed over to the other team at a price, isn't loyal to its group until the last minute.

[austere iris]

for sure

[alpine wasp]

no debate imho on mono red for tinker

[tawdry nest]

No debate on that

[round aurora]

Lunatic

The ones that don't know what they really are are a bit harder to figure out...

Lunatic thinks they are the Demon, but they are not.

It's harder to assign MTG colors to something being acted upon rather than acting on others.

[tawdry nest]

Red?

[round aurora]

We did have Red/Blue for Drunk, the idea of it thinking its trying to achieve something but just causing problems instead. Believes it is Blue, acts Red.

So... Lunatic could be Red/Black? Thinks it is Black, acts more Red.

It's not Green in any way. It doesn't really accept its own nature in its design. It's working against its own team, so hard to say its White.

As well, we also have Moonchild. It's not really retributive justice that it brings, since it hurts allies.

So, the argument for White doesn't work.

[ripe fern]

i understand why you're saying RB but it feels wrong for sailor and lunatic to be the same colors

[round aurora]

TBF, Klutz was deemed Red/Black

[round aurora]

What colors do you say Lunatic to be?

[ripe fern]

i'm not sure i see red

tbh, i kinda think this might be our first colorless

maybe mono black?

"i have delusions of power" doesn't map itself very nicely onto the color pie

[round aurora]

We can leave it aside for now, as it is tricky when the role itself doesn't actually know it is that role

And think about Moonchild

[ripe fern]

moonchild sacrifices others for their own good

and doesn't want to die itself

similar to virgin, BR?

[round aurora]

It doesn't mechanically kill anyone though until it dies, and then it chooses someone

There's also the consequence if the person doesn't die . So, could be BR for that dark risk taking, risking another person's life whom you don't believe, and if they die... whoops.

Black has a lot of creatures with an effect with "When this creature dies"

[round aurora]

For the Minions... my current thoughts are:

Devil's Advocate

White. They might be on the Evil team, but their ability is fundamentally about protection, keeping people alive.

Assassin

Black and Red. It chooses you, you die, no questions asked. It doesn't matter what protection you have. Very Black. Perhaps Red as well, given the sheer ferocity of the assassin, and Red is a color associated with damaging even through invincibility.

Mastermind

Blue and Black. The long term schemer, willing to let their own leader die for their own master plan. A patient role is very Blue and its role as a deceiver makes it mix well with Blue and Black.

Godfather

Black and White. A murderous character that gets retribution for outsiders makes it more Black than White, especially since it seems less group focused and more on the outsiders of the group.

[tawdry nest]

DA isn't black or red, it doesn't create any info for blue, and it's not green

So White seems right

[tawdry nest]

Assassin is just black
Or black blue

As there's nothing unplanned or chaotic or impulsive

Just killing at the perfect right moment

Plus, a lot of assassins are black blue

[tawdry nest]

Mastermind is Blue Black I agree

[tawdry nest]

Godfather is very black, it will advocate for outsiders deaths for its own gain

I don't see much white
I think it pretends to want to help outsiders

But it does anything but

[round aurora]

True. This purging of outsiders though goes back to being pretty White

White is the color of xenophobia

Main reason for seeing Assassin being Red was the mechanics of Red being able to damage hard enough to get past invincibility, but flavor wise it otherwise isn't there. I can see Blue for Assassin with the patience often required with it

[austere iris]

see, godfather's retribution for the outsiders is squarely WB for me

also like, cmon

it's a godfather

the mafia is literally as WB as it comes

[tawdry nest]

Through botc mechanics, I don't see much retribution though
Because often the godfather is the direct cause of their death

[austere iris]

I disagree, in large part because death during the day is nearly exclusively good's responsibility

[tawdry nest]

But the godfather wants outsiders to die

Because thats when they are at their strongest

[round aurora]

Black as a color is oddly tolerant, the way it divides things is "Me" and "Not Me" typically. It's White that divides and defines the group and the need to protect them from outside forces. So the godfather wanting to get outsiders executed to fuel their own power is a very White/Black idea, exploiting those outside the in-group to their own advantage and betterment

I do agree though that Godfather far more heavily leans Black, with its White properties being much more secondary

[austere iris]

a person that pays lip service to protecting a group they’re actively exploiting is a BW ideal

[round aurora]

As for the Demons....

Pukka is the most patient of the Demons, it requires planning in advance, countering its opponent before they kill the opponent. However, it's also acting very immediately, poisoning right out the gate before they even know anything. I think Pukka might be Blue/Red?

[ripe fern]

assassin feels either pure black or UB

it’s not impulsive, it saves the kill for when it’s the most devastating

[round aurora]

Devil's Advocate - White
Assassin - Blue, Black
Mastermind - Blue, Black
Godfather - Black(, White?)

[ripe fern]

agree with pukka BR though, judging by the wiki flavor

[round aurora]

(Pin please)

[round aurora]

Black Red?

[ripe fern]

meant UR 😅

The devious Pukka is the deadliest demon in Bad Moon Rising for its viciousness and cruelty. All the other demons give the town the courtesy of a single night; the Pukka has no such patience, sowing chaos into the town from the first night, selecting their first victim before the townsfolk even get a chance to act. 

this feels very blue to me, and the fact it acts n1 justifies red

[round aurora]

The flavor is much more Blue. Very polite and scheming.

It's not very Izzet in personality, but hey, we haven't really been using the flavor of the demon.

[ripe fern]

we haven’t been using the flavortext much, have we

[round aurora]

So yeah, a demon that is patient yet acts immediately, requiring good planning but fumbles if its plans are messed up. Very Blue/Red

[ripe fern]

I like how philo and pukka are both UR but for very different reasons

[round aurora]

Shabaloth

Red.
Kill kill KILL KILL

Just rampages through without stopping, and gets its short term benefit at the cost of longer term planning as eventually it usually regurgitates

[ripe fern]

The mighty Shabaloth is the deadliest Demon in Bad Moon Rising for its brutality and consistency. Neither the Pukka or Zombuul can match your multiple kills a night on their own, and while the Po can edge you out in numbers on a single night, you take back the crown thanks to their need to charge.

Agree with pure red, maybe black as well? It’s pure power and impulse

[round aurora]

I can see Rakdos for Shabaloth

Shabaloth is very pragmatic. Who needs other special abilities as a demon, your goal is to kill, so kill

[ripe fern]

I think I’m just gonna link the entire wiki page, the tips and tricks section is gold

https://wiki.bloodontheclocktower.com/Shabaloth

[round aurora]

Po is similarly vicious, but in a scheming way. It kills at the usual rate, but it's able to choose to withhold and go for a big blast

[ripe fern]

I’m thinking UB for Po? Same as assassin

The Po is the deadliest demon in Bad Moon Rising for its patience and ferocity. No other demon can hope to unleash as much devastation in a single night as you are capable of. Unlike the brutal Shabaloth, none of your victims are coming back from the dead unexpectedly. Unlike the Zombuul and the Pukka, you only wait if you choose it.

[round aurora]

It's definitely not Red because Po is not impulsive at all. It's quite ruthless going for mass killing as a means of winning, but the careful thought required to pull this off makes more Blue.

Zombuul is difficult... It's the one that lies in wait, able to die once and hide in death. This more pragmatic approach to death and using it to its advantage is oddly Green, being unafraid of death, and slow to change as it can only kill when no one is executed.

[ripe fern]

The sinister Zombuul is the deadliest Demon in Bad Moon Rising for its stealth and survivability. The Shabaloth and Po may kill many and the Pukka may strike with their poison, but they are all disappointingly fragile when the town eventually uncovers them. Not so for you - you're hard to find and harder to kill, and your patience is legendary; you're content to lie among the dead and listen peacefully as the town tears themselves apart looking for a Demon among the living, not ever suspecting that one of the rotting corpses in the graveyard still draws breath.

[tawdry nest]

Shab is 100% red
Maybe black red
Because they get extra kills with a consequence latter

[ripe fern]

the way the wiki describes patience and being sinister makes me lean blue?

[tawdry nest]

Pukka is quite izzet

[ripe fern]

I see Zombuul UG maybe

[tawdry nest]

Zombuul feels very green

Not simic though

[ripe fern]

Definitely neither black nor red

[tawdry nest]

Why not black?

[ripe fern]

actually, good point

the deception inherent to lying among the dead is kinda black

[austere iris]

I can see GB Zombuul

maybe Sultai

[tawdry nest]

and it's not white imo
Because there's not really any sacrifice
And it doesn't really build comunity

And there's little order to it

[round aurora]

Zombuul can willingly die, but the sacrifice is fake.

[tawdry nest]

I'd go with

[round aurora]

So it's not White. It can pretend to be, but it's not.

[tawdry nest]

BG
or BUG

imo

[ripe fern]

BUG makes sense

[round aurora]

Zombuul is the most patient demon, as it has the least killing power, but it's more stealthy nature lends itself to all three of BUG.

It's not White in any sense.

[tawdry nest]

Sultai

[round aurora]

It's not at all Red, there is no impulse there, no drive, no fury

[tawdry nest]

Sounds good

[round aurora]

Shabaloth - Red
Zombuul - Black, Blue, Green
Pukka - Blue, Red
Po - Blue, Black

Some very Blue Demons

[ripe fern]

quil, did you ever do the outsiders in a single post?

[round aurora]

Not yet, no

Because we never did finish with Lunatic + Moonchild

[ripe fern]

makes sense given how silent they are - they can all disguise as each other

[round aurora]

And then there's Shabaloth

[ripe fern]

and then there's shabaloth

who can only do so when getting drunk off its reckless, shifty sometimes-ally

[alpine wasp]

my favourite demon is also dimir, perfect

[round aurora]

Something tells me you'll prefer the Dimir script when we make it, lol

[tawdry nest]

What did we decide for outsiders

[ripe fern]

tinker is mono red, goon is mono black?

[round aurora]

Goon = Black, 100%
Tinker = Red, 100%

Tinker goes BOOM

Goon is shifty and willing to trade for their alliance at the cost to their allies

[ripe fern]

i don't think lunatic really fits a color

[tawdry nest]

Goon couldn't really be any of the 4 other colors

I think lunatic is mono red
Or mono black

[round aurora]

The other thing about Goon is that it specifically only hurts their own allies. If you get drunk by the Goon, congrats, the Goon is on your team

[tawdry nest]

Maybe lunatic is green?

[ripe fern]

...huh

[alpine wasp]

the decks ive made for myself in the past always contain at least one of the dimir colours, most the time both.

[tawdry nest]

I feel like my decks are always blue
Unless I'm playing the best pairing, Orzhov

Lunatic seems very hard

Green Red?

For lunatic

[alpine wasp]

Orzhov is more Moll's alley than mine, I have dabbled in it tho, dont hate it.

[round aurora]

I think maybe leave Lunatic on the table and come back to it once we've gone over the experimental characters?

(Also, brb)

[tawdry nest]

Yeah

Moonchild

Moonchild harms only its alies

Which is quite black

But chooses when to do it

And has a plan for it
So not red imo

I'd go Mono Black
Or Blue Black

[round aurora]

The Moonchild would prefer if they chose an Evil player, so it could be seen as a pre-planned test of alliance if they die.

Tests one person in town, trying to kill them. If they succeed, get an ally... and they're dead. If they fail, they found an Evil, but it didn't directly kill them

Tinker - Red
Moonchild - Black(, Blue?)
Goon - Black
Lunatic - (To be determined)

[tawdry nest]

It's info at any cost

[round aurora]

@ripe fern

[tawdry nest]

Which feels blue black

[round aurora]

Now then... experimental... this is gonna be awhile

[tawdry nest]

Alchamist

[ripe fern]

outsiders first? there's not a lot of em

[round aurora]

Yeah we can do outsiders first

[tawdry nest]

Yeah, sure

[round aurora]

Acrobat

[tawdry nest]

Izzet?

[round aurora]

Hmm. It dies if an ally is poisoned

It basically has to trust its allies.

But if either are poisoned, it warns them

[tawdry nest]

I could feel any color really

Maybe not red or black

[round aurora]

It's not really Black? It's not really exploiting anyone

Dying in a way that warns your neighbors seems very selfless

[tawdry nest]

White Green
It's info is coincidental

So maybe less so blue

And more green

[round aurora]

There is nothing really patient about the Acrobat. The longer it lives, great, its neighbors are healthy. But it can drop dead on Day 2.

[alpine wasp]

it cares about its neighbours so community based colours seem about right

[tawdry nest]

But the death isn't impulsive
It's just inherent

[round aurora]

Yeah

White, Green sounds right

Self sacrificial (though not technically intended)

Helps its allies

Dies if things get worse for its allies

[alpine wasp]

i like how my brain seems dimir sometimes then appears and then is that thing u see every couple of days for 0 reason

[round aurora]

Damsel

... hmmmmmmm. It's... pretty selfish. It must keep itself hiding, and mechanically requires others to cover for it at the pain of loss.

Oh, wait, we can skip to an easy one

Politician - Black

[tawdry nest]

Politician is Black
Controled or Chaotic

It doesn't care

It just wants to be the most important

[round aurora]

It can play Red, go for chaos. It can play Blue, go for the long term play. It can play White, search for Evil and help them succeed. It does what it wants. BUT: Any other color depends on the player. Politician itself is fundamentally Black in nature.

[tawdry nest]

100% agree

Damsel?

[round aurora]

I can't see a way to play a Politician in a 'Green' manner, but shrug 😛

[spark valve]

orzov is the best

i love aristocrat decks

[tawdry nest]

I'd say damsel is black
Want's other people to play worse to cover it

[spark valve]

vigor is definetly orzov

[round aurora]

You can check the pins, Vigor got White, Black, and Green

So it would fit when we make an Orzov script

[spark valve]

eh

i dont think it should have green that much personally

but 🤷

[alpine wasp]

Most of my favourite characters got Dimir dear :D

[tawdry nest]

Orzov will be a fun script

[round aurora]

I fear what the Dimir script will be

[tawdry nest]

Damsel feels black
Maybe green

[round aurora]

Damsel seems very Black because of how self centered it is

[tawdry nest]

I can't see the other colors

[round aurora]

It corrupts the game because other individuals have to help hide them

Others have to give the Damsel bluffing space

[spark valve]

most of mine are quite azorius

something i enjoy as well

[round aurora]

It's not Red. The last thing Damsels want to be is impulsive.

They can be White in that they're more than happy to be executed and die, removing them as a threat, but this is still pretty selfish as they're demanding to be killed to removed their own danger over going after evils, and they usually have to lie about themselves to get themself executed

It's not really self sacrificial, but either deceptive or as a threat

"Kill me or else"

Damsel doesn't really want to be Blue either

[tawdry nest]

They'd prefer to create 0 info

Because all their info is bogus

[spark valve]

yee mono black

i agree with

[round aurora]

They don't get info, they're trying to hide, so they might want to present true info if they can, but they can easily manage it

I don't see anything Green about the Damsel

Acrobat - White/Green
Damsel - Black
Politician - Black

Golem

SMASH

[spark valve]

do we have a list for the experimentals yet?

[tawdry nest]

That's what we are making

[round aurora]

Here?

None yet except the above

[spark valve]

can we start one and pin it?

to make it a bit clearer

[round aurora]

Golem is SMASH. Just, BOOM! And once it goes off... welp, no more nominating for it.

[spark valve]

also golem is red

[round aurora]

Which is... very Red

[tawdry nest]

We generaly create them and then pin

It's very impulsive
Get a thing now
Lose a thing forever

It'd prefer to get minions

So it's not really black

[round aurora]

Also, if it nominates someone and they don't die... you get a very angry Golem

If you don't be smashed, it will hunt you down

[tawdry nest]

I don't think we have a single gruul character yet

I'd say lunatic is one

[round aurora]

Recluse

[tawdry nest]

That is a good one

[spark valve]

alhad feels orzov

or at least both colours

and maybe something else

[round aurora]

I agree. But let's focus on the outsiders for now xP

[spark valve]

but but...

XD

[tawdry nest]

Golem is Red
But I'd agrue also green

[round aurora]

(Al-Had demands the group make sacrifices, which is very White)

[spark valve]

yee

[round aurora]

(It imposes a White philosophy on the Good team)

(But in a very Black manner)

[tawdry nest]

When it nominates, it kills
Very inherent ability

I can see mono red though

[round aurora]

Yeah, I can see Golem as Gruul

[spark valve]

puzzlemaster is blue minimum

[round aurora]

Golem is at it's heart one single concept

SMASH

"How do we know this person isn't the demon?"
Golem: "Like this"

It is a completely destructive manner of info gathering

[tawdry nest]

It must work around its inherent strengths and weaknesses, so maybe gruul

[round aurora]

Congrats, you have confirmed someone isn't the demon

Also they're dead

[spark valve]

plague doctor feels white to me

[round aurora]

Acrobat - White/Green
Damsel - Black
Golem - Smash, I mean, Red/Green
Politician - Black

[tawdry nest]

Hatter

[spark valve]

wait btw

are we doing them in order?

[tawdry nest]

yes

[round aurora]

Yeah, alphabetical order

We decided to do outsiders first since smaller list

[spark valve]

mmh

hatter is some sort of green? maybe green white

[tawdry nest]

Hatter feels red

I don't see any white

I'd do anything not to die

It doesn't add anything

Doesn't help the team

[spark valve]

fair

[round aurora]

I could see Green, because the Hatter doesn't want to change the nature of the Evil Team

If it dies, it causes dramatic change

[tawdry nest]

I'd say another green red

[spark valve]

was focusing more on the tea party

but if its how they act i agree

[round aurora]

Yeah, outsiders are harder to judge, since we have to judge them often based on their costs

They aren't as philosopically tied positively to their own abilities

Acrobat is the odd one out since.. it's barely an outsider

Perhaps Hatter is Green/Blue?

It's fundamentally opposed to creating change at all, but when it dies, the Evil team uses it to optimize themselves

Hmm, we can all agree Green at least

@austere iris thoughts on Hatter?

[austere iris]

definitely blue

GU works for me

[round aurora]

I can leave it at Green(, Blue?) for now. Something to go more in depth later?

Acrobat - White/Green
Damsel - Black
Golem - Smash, I mean, Red/Green
Hatter - Green(/Blue?)
Politician - Black

Heretic

Now for the fun one.

I think Heretic is oddly White.

Yes, like the Damsel, it has to hide. However, it fundamentally changes the rules of the game itself, it has work for the group via protecting the Demon.

[austere iris]

heretic is definitely white

it's rules setting in a way that's "fair" but also inherently one sided

[round aurora]

It wants peace, it doesn't want to murder the Demon, it wants things to keep going without a hitch.

Heretic isn't amoral, it's firmly rooted in the Good vs Evil distinction, it just recognizes a reversed win condition and needs to cooperate with the group via trying to get the Demon to win.

Heretic firmly knows what is right and what is wrong, it just has to ensure it succeeds at any cost.

It's not Green: It fundamentally warps the nature of the game and perverts it

It's not Red, the last thing it wants to do is anything impulsive, it needs to be very careful to not kill the Demon by mistake

It's not Black, it's not trying to be selfish here, and while the group has to play around its possible existence, it's far more a cooperative measure than the Damsel

It could be Blue though. Heretic has to be very patient

The way to win is to get the Demon to the final two, which is a hard ask.

[round aurora]

Any other thoughts on the Heretic?

I see it as White, maybe White/Blue

Btw.
I given how Red/Blue tends to pair up.
I already have a name for the Red/Blue script

Izzet Jankyard

[tawdry nest]

I think White Blue is perfect

[round aurora]

Acrobat - White, Green
Damsel - Black
Golem - Smash, I mean, Red, Green
Hatter - Green(, Blue?)
Heretic - White, Blue
Politician - Black

[tawdry nest]

Ogre

White Green no?

[round aurora]

Yeah, I was leaning White/Green

They essentially know their purpose from the start: Get their friend to win

They side with their ally, that's all that matters

[tawdry nest]

All about helping someone, and it's there from the start

More green than white imo
But still quite white

[round aurora]

It's only a little Red, once they pick someone... that's it. It can be chaotic, but it's not required. They have a serious attachment to whomever they choose, but still fits more with the White/Green qualities

Nothing about it is Blue. It's not Black, it's not a selfish role, it's a role that mechanically dedicates it to another individual

So yeah

White & Green

Three left... Plague Doctor, Snitch, and Puzzlemaster...

Puzzlemaster might be a bit easier?

Seems Blue, given it's entire goal is centered around figuring out a big puzzle of who they poisoned. The mystery element for the Puzzlemaster in trying to find out who is puzzledrunk, and learning the Demon if they succeed, sounds like such a Blue type of mission

[tawdry nest]

Puzzlemaster is Izzet imo

[round aurora]

Hmm. What's the Red part to it?

[tawdry nest]

They ruin info around them
But not in a malicious way, as one element to puzzlemaster is ruining out who is droisoned by the effect
Info at the cost of others, but not in a malicious way

[round aurora]

I can see it

Snitch
This is a weird one.

Green? It knows its purpose from the start, it knows what it has done, and that's it. But it does something to help the opposite team very directly, which isn't very White.

[tawdry nest]

Green seems right
They cause a thing right at the start
And all they can do about it is spred that that thing has happened

I could maybe see blue, but it seems very mono green

[round aurora]

Acrobat - White, Green
Damsel - Black
Golem - Red, Green
Hatter - Green(, Blue?)
Heretic - White, Blue
Hermit - Red, Black, Green
Ogre - White, Green
Politician - Black
Plague Doctor - Black(, Blue?)
Puzzlemaster - Blue, Red
Snitch - Green
Zealot - Red

not sure on Plague Doctor

[round aurora]

@ripe fern 📍 ?

[round aurora]

Since all that is left to figure out is the Plague Doctor

[spark valve]

blue black
fights to holy hell to live caring about themselves but if they do end up dying a lot of plague doctors are ones who quicly solve for the added ability

would be my argument

[round aurora]

I can see Blue/Black

It's not White, it disrupts the order of the game by adding something to the other team. It's not Green. It has no real freedom or impulse to it, so not Red

It's unnatural effect happens on its own death, and so it will try to avoid dying to prevent this unusual and unnatural effect. So quite Black.

For the Experimental Demons, some of them are easier than others.

Al-Had: White/Black. It demands sacrifice from the Good Team, and expects from them to cull the weak in favor of the strong, and punishes selfishness. It's right on the fine line between these two colors.

Riot: Red. Unrepentant violence and chaos.

Legion: White/Green. A community focused Demon, where everyone is one and the same, and any can be sacrificed for their greater good.

[tawdry nest]

I'm thinking purely black

Or maybe purely green

It's very very similar to hatter

[round aurora]

True

[round aurora]

We're almost done with the full list, just need to get through the Experimental Demons, Minions, and TF. Will try to think over them later

[tawdry nest]

Great, I'll also be free to think them through in a little bit

[lone gyro]

slightly tangentially related to mtg, but this is apparently being ran in live atm
https://www.bloodstar.xyz/p/B3C4U5E/Gatewatch/almanac.html

[round aurora]

Reviving this to remind myself to go over the remaining Experimental Characters and then finish this.

[tawdry nest]

Indeed

[round aurora]

Well, Zealot is a bit easy I think.

Very Red. No Rhyme or reason, just enthusiasm for every single nomination.
Not Black. It wants everyone to die, even themself, which is hardly ambitious or self centered.
Not Blue, there's no thought whatsoever into voting, just a blanket YES!!!! on everything.

I think it's White as well, because it's oddly fair and egalitarian: it wants everyone dead equally, even itself.

Green is the color of Community and Wisdom, which... Zealot is not. It wants to vote on everyone.
It's White, it's oddly orderly and civil voting on everyone, and has no real individuality.

[lone gyro]

I think the reasoning used for white and red works individually but not together

[ripe fern]

i'm thinking just R for zealot tbh

[round aurora]

Bumping this up so I remember to continue this sometime.

[nocturne hamlet]

I kind of wanted to understand your intent

make a script with a fabled related to the colors?

or to mutate the abilities themselves to interact with the theme

[round aurora]

No we are sorting all the roles to which mtg color they belong to then designing a script for each pair of colors

[nocturne hamlet]

pair of colors?

sounds pretty neat, even if some combinations might be very hard to work with

[round aurora]

Izzet, Gruul, Dimir, etc

[nocturne hamlet]

green with black for example

[humble cipher]

This is such a good idea

Woah

[humble cipher]

What about travelers

Apprentice is black

Barista is definitely white

Voudon is black

Beaureucrat is white

[tawdry nest]

Barista is red white

Apprentice is Blue or Blue Black

Voudon is Green Black

[humble cipher]

Oh color pairs?

Ok

[tawdry nest]

They can be mono

Duel

Or triple

[humble cipher]

Oh gotcha

[tawdry nest]

Whichever fits best

[humble cipher]

Scapegoat is black white maybe

[austere iris]

all travelers are UR, clearly

[humble cipher]

Most of em maybe

Like matron

[austere iris]

that said, apprentice actually is UR, barista is RW, Voudon is WB, Bureaucrat is UW

matron is also UW

[humble cipher]

Why White for matronmatron

[austere iris]

rules enforcement

players are unable to leave their seat

[humble cipher]

Ah i get it

[tawdry nest]

Voudon is GB not WB to me
Giving power to death not using it for their own ends

[humble cipher]

I agree

[tawdry nest]

Like they can't control what the dead do

[humble cipher]

Very golgari

[tawdry nest]

They just give them power

[austere iris]

but they also get a vote, importantly

[tawdry nest]

Yeah, but I don't think that means BW, like golgari witches have power
But also give power to nature, is what I've seen at least

[austere iris]

I put it at white primarily for it not letting the living vote

[tawdry nest]

That's true

Very team based

Ordered

[austere iris]

just a very orzhov character I feel

"you must obey the commands of the dead... and myself, of course"

[tawdry nest]

I feel more BWG
But I can see cutting green or white

Where did we end off on anyway?

Oh yeah, we finished the experimental outsiders

Now's as good a time as ever to do travellers

[nocturne hamlet]

What if we did three colors for a character

If needed

[tawdry nest]

Scapegoat?

[tawdry nest]

Totally allowed

And has been done before

Pinned are our previous choices btw

[nocturne hamlet]

Alright,do we want to do the travellers in order?

[tawdry nest]

I thought so

[nocturne hamlet]

Scape goat sounds black

[tawdry nest]

Scapegoat is super white

[nocturne hamlet]

There's not really any Blue or green to it

Maybe black white

[tawdry nest]

Sacrifices for the good of the team

I don't see black

[nocturne hamlet]

It's still related to death tho

[tawdry nest]

Like what is self centered or ambitious about scapegoat

[tawdry nest]

Every color is related to death

In some part

Self Sacrifice is a very white thing

And not a black thing imo

[austere iris]

scapegoat is W, maybe GW

[nocturne hamlet]

I wonder why I can't see pinned

Green?

[tawdry nest]

I don't see green

[nocturne hamlet]

I don't either

[tawdry nest]

It is inherent

Like the scapegoat can't choose

It's a natural reaction

[nocturne hamlet]

Unless we rule it that they're Just conscious of their role in the game

[austere iris]

both G and W are colors of community

[tawdry nest]

So I kinda see green that way

[nocturne hamlet]

And that death Is inevitable

[nocturne hamlet]

I feel like it's still not green enough

[austere iris]

I argue it hits pretty much exactly selesnya

green and white are both the colors of sacrificing for community

[nocturne hamlet]

Can you reply to that section,given I can't reach It by pinned?

[austere iris]

I'm not sure what section you're talking about

[nocturne hamlet]

The One with the colors

[tawdry nest]

I agree

[austere iris]

all of the pins have colors? they're all just different character types in different scripts with their color assignment

[tawdry nest]

If it could choose when to die I would think otherwise

But it seems quite GW

[nocturne hamlet]

I mean the description

And idk why, but my pinned Is empty

[austere iris]

oh, you mean the magic color pie

[nocturne hamlet]

Yes

[austere iris]

that's not pinned that's like, a whole thing

[nocturne hamlet]

It's written somewhere in here

At the top

[austere iris]

this one?

[tawdry nest]

Here?

[austere iris]

though it is a very surface level analysis, there's a lot to dig into for color pie

[nocturne hamlet]

Yeah

That one

[nocturne hamlet]

I'm Just making my assumptions based on it

I'm assuming the fabled are colorless?

[tawdry nest]

No

[austere iris]

no

offhand, fibbin is definitely red

[nocturne hamlet]

I wouldn't Say it's chaotic tho

[tawdry nest]

I would

[austere iris]

UR for trickery perhaps

[tawdry nest]

Maybe Izzy

Izzet

Yeah

So we’re going with GW for scapegoat

[nocturne hamlet]

I mean,It doesn't give you knowledge as blue

[tawdry nest]

For now at least

[nocturne hamlet]

Yeah

[tawdry nest]

Scapegoat - White, Green
Gunslinger - White, Black
Beggar - White, Blue
Bureaucrat - White
Thief - Black (Blue?)
Butcher - White, Black
Bone Collector - White, Black, Green
Harlot - Blue, Red
Barista - White, Red, Green
Deviant - Red (White?, Black?)
Apprentice - Green (Blue?, Red?)
Matron - White, Blue, Black
Voudon - Black, Green (White?)
Judge - Black (White?, Blue?)
Bishop - White, Red
Gangster - White, Black

I’ll edit that as we go along

[austere iris]

blue isn't just about knowledge, it's about showing off how smart you are by pulling one over on someone else

meanwhile red will trick you because it's funny

deception is a central UR theme

[nocturne hamlet]

What does the U stand for

[austere iris]

blue

[nocturne hamlet]

Why not Just Say BR?

[austere iris]

B stands for Black

[tawdry nest]

Black is B

[nocturne hamlet]

Nvm

[austere iris]

(to pre-empt the question, L stands for Lands and A stands for Artifact)

so we get U for Blue

[nocturne hamlet]

So randomat is a Red artifact

[austere iris]

artifact isn't a color

[nocturne hamlet]

I know

But It still technically would count as an artifact

I think

[austere iris]

the items probably would

[tawdry nest]

Internet just cut out, so I’m going to be much less helpful suddenly

[nocturne hamlet]

What's the next traveller

[austere iris]

after scapegoat, Gunslinger

[nocturne hamlet]

Gunslinger was the One that executed?

[tawdry nest]

Gunslinger is black?

[austere iris]

gunslinger kills a player that voted on the first nomination of a day

I was going to say WB

[tawdry nest]

That’s my starting guess
Maybe orzov

[austere iris]

it's a very "fair" ability

[tawdry nest]

Yeah

[austere iris]

you know exactly what puts you at risk to be shot

[nocturne hamlet]

Hmm

[austere iris]

it's "fair", but can easily be twisted to your advantage

[tawdry nest]

It’s very “fair” while still 100% only benefiting the gunslinger

[nocturne hamlet]

Blue black?

[tawdry nest]

And harms the people around them

[austere iris]

not blue, white

[tawdry nest]

I don’t think blue

[nocturne hamlet]

Just proposing

[austere iris]

punishing pre-defined actions is very white

[tawdry nest]

The gunslinger doesn’t have much choice and info isn’t really on the table

[nocturne hamlet]

The gunslinger does have a choice

[tawdry nest]

Out of 1 though

It’s a yes no

Wait

No

I’m wrong

[austere iris]

it's primarily a choice on the part of the people voting, though

[tawdry nest]

Still think orzov

But blue is a close third color

I just don’t think it gets there

[nocturne hamlet]

Alr

[austere iris]

I don't think having a choice is enough alone to make something U

[nocturne hamlet]

It's still a form of trick in my view, despite its deadliness

[austere iris]

I don't think it's a trick at all, given it's a very upfront process

you know exactly what you need to do to not get shot

[nocturne hamlet]

But people Will do It anyways

[austere iris]

very orzhov

[tawdry nest]

That's on them

Very orzhov

imo

[austere iris]

very orzhov

[nocturne hamlet]

We Just have different viewpoints
I think of It as more, the thing of the gunslinger Just has a rule that enables it, more than It forces people to act differently

[austere iris]

yes, and setting rules and punishing people for breaking it, is very white

[tawdry nest]

Yeah, but I fail to see what's blue about that

[nocturne hamlet]

What Is Blue and black for you?

[austere iris]

also do you want this pinned?

[tawdry nest]

That would be nice

[tawdry nest]

I'm still on the orzhov train for gunslinger

[nocturne hamlet]

^

[austere iris]

do you want the short answer or the very long answer

because I can talk a lot about the color pie

[nocturne hamlet]

Depends, Will the short answer make a good point?

[austere iris]

White - "Peace through structure"
Blue - "Perfection through knowledge"
Black - "Power through opportunity"
Red - "Freedom through action"
Green - "Acceptance through wisdom"

[tawdry nest]

Blue is the seeking of and usage of info above all else
Black is the exploitation of that you have access to for your own gain
Is my super short answer

[nocturne hamlet]

When you use the gunslinger, do you not want to seek if your target Is a good shot?

[tawdry nest]

But that's not the main focus

[austere iris]

all players want to use their ability effectively

[tawdry nest]

Like every character has parts of all the colors

[austere iris]

that's not anything inherent to the character

[nocturne hamlet]

So mastermind?

[tawdry nest]

Yeah

[austere iris]

we decided mastermind was UB, yeah

[nocturne hamlet]

Alright, we'll Just Stick to WB

[tawdry nest]

Beggar

[austere iris]

very black

[tawdry nest]

Black, steals votes
Blue, gets info

I think dimir personally

[austere iris]

I can see dimir

[tawdry nest]

But I could see white black
Forming bonds and teams at a high cost to the other party

[nocturne hamlet]

Maybe Blue White black?

[tawdry nest]

I could see that
But I could also see cutting one of the non black areas

[nocturne hamlet]

Or green White black

[tawdry nest]

I don't see green

[nocturne hamlet]

Community

[tawdry nest]

They have no power at the start

They need to take everything to give anything

Which I think is more white than green

[nocturne hamlet]

But they ask for It, and the community gives

A gest of kindness

More than forcing anything

[austere iris]

that's more white than green

[tawdry nest]

I kinda see it
But I see Black White and Blue far more

[austere iris]

green is "for the greater good", white is alms for the poor

[nocturne hamlet]

Alright

[tawdry nest]

Are we thinking orzhov or WUB

[nocturne hamlet]

It's a pretty simple role in itself

Idk

3 colored cards are a bit more complicated than that

[tawdry nest]

3 colors can be simple

[nocturne hamlet]

Can be, but not that often

[tawdry nest]

Or dimir even

[nocturne hamlet]

What was dimir

[austere iris]

blue black

[nocturne hamlet]

I think It's more White black than Blue black if It comes to two colors

[tawdry nest]

I can see that

[austere iris]

I think I prefer having white, Beggar is inherently one of others willingly giving up their vote

maybe WU?

from that perspective black isn't the best fit, even if it is using the dead for power

[nocturne hamlet]

I mean, It relates to the dead

But there are White cards that work with it

[tawdry nest]

That's true

[nocturne hamlet]

Sometimes

[tawdry nest]

They don't really take

Even if they benifit from other's sacrifice

[nocturne hamlet]

I think this might be WU yeah

[tawdry nest]

Yeah, I agree

[austere iris]

the ability also doesn't gain power, it learns about others, and will at best be on par with how others are normally

I think UW

[nocturne hamlet]

Let's lock It in

Who's next

[tawdry nest]

Bureaucrat

[austere iris]

bureaucrat

ez UW

next

[nocturne hamlet]

The One that multiplies the vote?

[austere iris]

yep

[tawdry nest]

White

[nocturne hamlet]

I don't think It's UW

I think It's Red white

[austere iris]

I disagree that it's red

[tawdry nest]

I think it's mono white honestly

[austere iris]

I can be swayed to mono-white

it's certainly more white than anything else

[tawdry nest]

I don't see any other color

[nocturne hamlet]

Alright

[tawdry nest]

Like they gain nothing themselves

No info is in play or used

Nothing is inherent or natural

And nothing is really chaotic or impulsive

[nocturne hamlet]

Alright, let's Just lock in white

[austere iris]

I won't disagree with mono-white

[nocturne hamlet]

Thief now?

[tawdry nest]

Yeah

Black no?
They just sabotage the person they pick

[nocturne hamlet]

Red black?

[austere iris]

blue black

[nocturne hamlet]

I think It still can very much create chaos

[tawdry nest]

Blue?

[austere iris]

possibly white black

blue in the sense that the ability very much wants to be a trick, someone thinks they have a normal vote, but doesn't

[nocturne hamlet]

I feel like you don't give enough credit to the Chaos roles can do willingly

[austere iris]

white in the sense that a player can absolutely effectively use a negative vote that they know about to impact their decision

[tawdry nest]

True, I'd go with mono black personally

But I can see blue

I can't see black

[austere iris]

I won't argue with mono-black, it's definitely mostly black

[tawdry nest]

Yeah, but it's not very impulsive

[nocturne hamlet]

Does Red have to be impulsive?

[tawdry nest]

It's more scheming

[austere iris]

yes

red is the color of emotions

[nocturne hamlet]

I saw many Red cards that are not impulsive

[tawdry nest]

Any color can cause chaos
Red cards are chaotic
Is the difference I see

And Thief isn't chaotic in of itself

[nocturne hamlet]

It wants to throw off town

[austere iris]

honestly most travellers, despite tending to be chaotic in practice, aren't very red

[austere iris]

that's blue

also, so does most characters

[nocturne hamlet]

I'll Just leave It be

[austere iris]

so mono-B thief?

[nocturne hamlet]

I'm not sure why you would make It different from beaurocrat

[tawdry nest]

I'd say so personally

[tawdry nest]

It's about taking away/giving power

[austere iris]

because in practice, +2 and -2 votes play out very differently

[nocturne hamlet]

You either remove votes from an enemy, or add votes to an ally

[austere iris]

a bureaucrat is about giving someone else the power to have a larger sway over town, and a thief is about making someone's sway over town actively pushing it away from what they want to happen

[tawdry nest]

Like you can't trick someone into helping someone they don't want to help by giving +2 votes

[austere iris]

a bureaucrat is about helping someone get what they want. a thief tries to make it so they can't

[nocturne hamlet]

Alright

I think Blue black more then

[tawdry nest]

I'll leave it open for now

We can see how other people feel

[nocturne hamlet]

Yeah

[austere iris]

fair, I can go either way with it

[nocturne hamlet]

Next script I'm assuming?

[tawdry nest]

Yep

[nocturne hamlet]

Should be everything for tb

[austere iris]

yep, Butcher?

[tawdry nest]

Yep

[nocturne hamlet]

Butcher was still execution?

[tawdry nest]

Butcher is a hard one

to me at least

[austere iris]

I would argue WB

[nocturne hamlet]

How did It work

[tawdry nest]

After an exe, you get to nom again

[nocturne hamlet]

White Blue black?

[austere iris]

black in that it's someone deciding "I want this person killed" unilaterally.
white in that it needs a group consensus for that to happen.

[tawdry nest]

I think Orzhov is good
Town gets an extra exe (good), but it's someone I want dead

Lots of travelers have that dynamic I've noticed

[nocturne hamlet]

It still feels like a trick

[austere iris]

I disagree that it's at all a trick

there's no hidden information

town knows exactly what the terms are

[nocturne hamlet]

It's about the opportunity

[austere iris]

opprotunistic is black

[nocturne hamlet]

To do something that's not normally possible

[tawdry nest]

I'm thinking orzhov still

[austere iris]

I think it sounds right

[nocturne hamlet]

Alright

[tawdry nest]

bone collector

[austere iris]

green, maybe green black

[nocturne hamlet]

Green White black?

[tawdry nest]

I see where you're getting white, and I think I agree

I might go for Abzan

[nocturne hamlet]

Azban?

What colors was that

[tawdry nest]

WBG

[nocturne hamlet]

So what I said, got it

[austere iris]

I can see it

abzan is a color combination about respect for the dead

[tawdry nest]

Just because it gives everything up to help someone else
It helps someone dead, on their terms only
And it gives back what was theirs originally

[nocturne hamlet]

Yeah,I think It's the best fit

[austere iris]

I think we're in agreement then

[nocturne hamlet]

.

Just a mark

[tawdry nest]

Harlot

[nocturne hamlet]

Clearly black

Wonder if anything else

[tawdry nest]

Maybe

I could also see not black

[austere iris]

red

it's about risk

[tawdry nest]

Very Izzet imo

[nocturne hamlet]

It's sacrifice in Exchange for Power

[austere iris]

agreed

[nocturne hamlet]

Yeah,I Guess that's fair

[austere iris]

it's about risk for knowledge

which is more red than black

[tawdry nest]

I could see grixis, but I'm thinking more Izzet

Grixis being Izzet + Black

[nocturne hamlet]

Just Blue Red?

[tawdry nest]

That's what I'm thinking

[nocturne hamlet]

I Guess It makes sense

[austere iris]

it doesn't feel particularly black

[nocturne hamlet]

Chaos for knowledge

[austere iris]

the sacrifice is something that's agreed to, not one that's forced on someone

and it's not a reliable cost, you take a chance every time you take action

[nocturne hamlet]

Alright,fair enough

Let's Just do izzet

[tawdry nest]

Barista

Red

And something else I think

[nocturne hamlet]

Red green?

[tawdry nest]

Yeah
Maybe

I see that

[nocturne hamlet]

Chaotic pump

[tawdry nest]

Enhance that which is already natural

[nocturne hamlet]

Pump as in boost

Yeah

[tawdry nest]

But do it in a unorganised and uncontrolable way

[austere iris]

red white

it's about helping others, uncontrollably

[nocturne hamlet]

Idk about Red White honestly

[tawdry nest]

I also don't know about white
Like there's no order

There isn't even order in chaos

No inherent way to comunicate, no way to build bonds

[austere iris]

there's no greater order than a barista 1

[tawdry nest]

True

[nocturne hamlet]

Green Red White would be too much?

[tawdry nest]

I would actually encorage a WRG

[austere iris]

I can see naya

[nocturne hamlet]

We thought the same thing

[tawdry nest]

Barista has a lot going on

[austere iris]

red for the uncontrollability, white for 1, green for 2

[tawdry nest]

But everything i about helping make natural powers better

[nocturne hamlet]

yes

I think green should be a must

[tawdry nest]

Naya is it?

[nocturne hamlet]

for now I'd say sure

[austere iris]

sure

[tawdry nest]

Deviant???

[nocturne hamlet]

red

[tawdry nest]

white?

[nocturne hamlet]

and white

[tawdry nest]

Black?

[nocturne hamlet]

prevents death

[tawdry nest]

I actually have no idea on this one

[nocturne hamlet]

in the descriptions quil sent

white is about preventing death

so I think red white can be fine

there's not really killing involved

nor sacrifice for power

or hindering the other team

[tawdry nest]

Yeah, but they survive against the wishes of town

But they spread mirth

[nocturne hamlet]

I think that's just a side consequence

if town thought they were funny

[austere iris]

red black

[nocturne hamlet]

I think they think they should live for now

[austere iris]

it's a very selfish form of protection

encourages actions that distract from the game itself

[nocturne hamlet]

if you're good aligned

what are you supposed to do then

[austere iris]

also, all emotions are red, so it's red

laughter is an emotion

[nocturne hamlet]

the red wasn't in discussion

[tawdry nest]

It's red I think
But I'm torn on anything else

[nocturne hamlet]

it's not green, nor blue

[austere iris]

I'd argue black

as said, it's a very selfish role

it's a traveller who's ability is entirely self-contained

[nocturne hamlet]

I'd argue white, it makes town feel better and make better decisions, indirectly

[tawdry nest]

That I can agree with

[nocturne hamlet]

and prevents death

which can also be white

[austere iris]

it prevents only it's own death

[tawdry nest]

It doesn't really help town make better decisions

[austere iris]

which can be black

[tawdry nest]

It harms their desisions

[nocturne hamlet]

I think we have very different viewpoints on this one

[tawdry nest]

Can't get rid of me, I'm too funny

[nocturne hamlet]

on fun

[tawdry nest]

Could it be mono red

[nocturne hamlet]

could be

[austere iris]

it could

[nocturne hamlet]

let's keep it mono red for now

[tawdry nest]

Apprentice

[nocturne hamlet]

5 colored

or colorless

[tawdry nest]

I think it's simic

[austere iris]

UR

[tawdry nest]

Well it's blue at least

[nocturne hamlet]

I think it can do so much that it should have all five or none

[austere iris]

it's definitely blue, yeah

[tawdry nest]

I disagree

[austere iris]

well no, in the same way professor isn't

it's ability is having another ability

[nocturne hamlet]

professor just resurrects

[austere iris]

that ability itself doesn't matter

not prof, philo

it's 3am

I'm a bit out of it

[tawdry nest]

I think the method of access of all the powers gives the character a specific color

[nocturne hamlet]

I guess izzet then

or white blue

[austere iris]

we gave philo UR for basically similar reasons

[nocturne hamlet]

they're kind of different in nature tho

[austere iris]

I can see it being simic because it's an assigned ability, not choice

[tawdry nest]

That's my argument at least

I could also see Temur

[nocturne hamlet]

temur?

[tawdry nest]

Blue Red Green

[nocturne hamlet]

I was thinking about it

but compared to philo

I just think it's less blue

but red green might also be not enough

[tawdry nest]

Yeah fair

Gruul could be a thing

Not much plotting to be done

[nocturne hamlet]

yeah

[tawdry nest]

You get what you get and it's both random and natural

I could also see mono green

[austere iris]

I suppose I can see it

[nocturne hamlet]

I'm not sure about mono green

it's not strictly natural to be naturally something different

I'm not sure how to explain it properly

[tawdry nest]

I'm still thinking simic

[austere iris]

I think I like simic most of the options

[tawdry nest]

Red is all good, but there's actually less things an apprenece can be

Like a random person is more random

[nocturne hamlet]

there's more things than a philo

and yet philo got red