✦ Homebrews By Luis ✦ (Nerdy Meet-cute)

[dry drift]

Some people in my group said Nonow could maybe have a SW clause to prevent evil winning in f3/4 automatically. I was wondering if this was considered when designing it, and if it was, why it wasn't added.

[unkempt oriole]

For final 3, the conversion happens at night. If the Nonow is executed, the game is already over and good wins at 2 players are alive.
-# I personally think this is a handwavy ruling. But is the ruling.

[dry drift]

Hmm, good to know

[cinder hemlock]

[jagged frost]

bro it says “tonight” 😭

it’s not a handwave if it’s right there in the syntax 🥀

[red badge]

ah yes, the precedent that the game ends if 2 players live, very different than the precedent that the game ends when the Demon dies

[blazing tinsel]

but game state updates

poison removed

[dry drift]

RAW it is dodgy, because your asking for the gamestate to be checked in the gap, but also not checked: checked, because good can win by executing the Nonow with 3 alive, even if their townsfolk neighbour is alive. not checked because evil doesn't lose if the Nonow dies in the day with, say, 7 alive if someone would become the Nonow tonight, despite there being no demon for a meaningful length of time

however i don't really care, its a sick character

[dark folio]

does a Pestilence get a double-kill off of a player if they have the Goldsmith ability but no longer have their own? (i.e. a Seamstress who's used their Seamstress ability but currently has the Goldsmith ability?)

[errant nymph]

I’d say they certainly do have an ability, so they wouldn’t fit the Pestilence’s requirement

[jagged frost]

they still have at least 1 ability so the pestilence would not proc

[jagged frost]

i mean i’ll see what i can do with the wording lol

[dark folio]

I thought that might be it - thank you!

[unkempt oriole]

Yeah this was what I was thinking when I said handwavy.
It's fine to rule it as is, just not obvious.

[jagged frost]

<@&1272694218204381244>
Hello everyone, I have some Tomby goodness for you all
https://botc.app/join/ibarelyknow'ercao

[cinder hemlock]

How stoney are we talking

[jagged frost]

it also has a bunch of characters that idk how to feel about to help me w that lol

"yes"

[cinder hemlock]

Shi idk

[jagged frost]

✦ Homebrews By Luis ✦ (How many seeds does a pomegranate have?)

[flint crest]

atleast 2

i know this since usually after i eat pomegranates i get 2 bouncing baby hernias and it makes me walk like i have constipation

and i feel atleast 2 after they exit my body

so its gotta be. i lock in my answer

[jagged frost]

i—

[finite fractal]

well, Luis?

I assume there's a prize for getting it right

[flint crest]

he never said i was wrong 🥹

gobble up my prize twin

[cinder hemlock]

https://tenor.com/view/snugibun-streamer-surprised-wtf-eyes-shocked-gif-17659401

[cinder hemlock]

Go on

We are listening Luis

[true shell]

sixty seven

[jagged frost]

anyways what type of characters do we want

[elfin anchor]

Quaint

[jagged frost]

as in genres of abilities

not literally character types

[jagged frost]

but i do have these in the works for release tho

[vestal burrow]

The good ones
...damnit thats prolly all of em
The cool ones
Wait thats not any better is it

[spice prairie]

drop some info twin

[cinder hemlock]

Listen

We need some seating related characters yo

[jagged frost]

that i can do

[blazing tinsel]

townsfolk with a clear downside

[flint crest]

you look at me like a kindergartener teacher reacting to kids saying nothing but '67 mustard tung tung tung sahur'

and i think thats b eautiful morby van blorby

[jagged frost]

oh that i can definitely do

[finite fractal]

the downside is it was made by luis s 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

please don't hurt me

[jagged frost]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/845749635016556617/1207720780276826212/caption.gif

[jagged frost]

bad news chat

me being me, i've been swept under my feet by some random project that i've resurrected from 5 years ago

so it might not be here so soon

but also like

progress is going swimmingly

so who cares lol

[flint crest]

LABUBU RPG QUEST 2!!!! 🔥

[jagged frost]

nah it’s better than that

it’s a roguelike deck builder

😭

LET IT BE KNOWN

I MADE THE IDEA IN YEAR 10

[flint crest]

SLAY THE LABUBULATRO

NOW ON

https://tenor.com/view/yo-mama-jokes-xbox-live-meme-yo-mama-gif-25152629

[jagged frost]

and i picked it back up before sts2 released early access

so it isn’t just bc of sts2

[errant nymph]

You made it 2,016 years ago?

[jagged frost]

yes

[cinder hemlock]

Man

If only we got Labubus from Luis

Sighhh

https://tenor.com/view/sigh-gif-12265459993891069085

[true shell]

homebrubus by lububuis

[cinder hemlock]

If only Luis was cool

And added an extra evil into SnV

[errant nymph]

Fang Luis

[jagged frost]

✦ Homebrews By Luis ✦ (Way down...)

[dull cove]

👀

[winged saddle]

Hadestown?

[jagged frost]

way down under the ground 🔥

[outer rune]

yeah immediately thought hadestown too

calling it it’s gonna be Songbird or something like that

[jagged frost]

vs rattlesnake?

[cinder hemlock]

Way down? What? Are we gonna get taken under ground?

[grizzled cipher]

in the bunker, down in the bunker...

[flint crest]

https://tenor.com/view/deltarune-chapter-ch-3-secret-gif-1873272877488740790

[jagged frost]

I've finally made the logo for the pack but BB4 is coming out so 💀

eh fuck it

homebrew stocks are up boys

[jagged frost]

<@&1272694218204381244>

The clear, cloudless sky breaks its fast after the dead of night by watching the sun creep at its seams. A periwigged man rubs his eyes and winces at the sight of his house of cards being swept away, met with an amused, regal, stifled guffaw and a hearty pat on the shoulder. Adjusting his suit in the mirror, the owner of the village vinery lets the features of his wrinkled hands acclimatise to the day. He’s expecting a visitor.

As the month’s first light plays a symphony, the earth chimes in with an idea, dispatching the orchestra on a zephyr to the next forest. Beneath the flock, the ground rumbles & roars. It gashes at the farmland to retreat into a pit, before wrenching the walls apart to quarry a chasm, and then rupturing the floor into an abyss.

A river of stones flows from the opening and paves the way for the visitor. Echos follow the march of footsteps out of the below, and, adorned by the hailing sun, the first flower finally blooms.

Introducing to all, the...

Persephone's Return Pack

[vestal burrow]

First

[jagged frost]

This is the beefiest release yet, featuring a whooping 36 characters, with each set being released each Sunday at <t:1776114000:t>.

[vestal burrow]

Okay everyone in the kitchen were all deep fried Luis is gonna release everything we dont have released

[quaint sequoia]

0% of them are xaoh so its an l update 😔

[bold tusk]

36 characters but how many of them are good?

[quaint sequoia]

well statistically 2.5 out of 7 characters are "good" because of townsfolk, outsiders & good travellers

[jagged frost]

damn axo

😭

oh yeah no good character type characters

that's what you meant

fr fr

[jagged frost]

ALSO ALSO ALSO

BEFORE THE RACOON TEARS ME APART

I'VE BEEN WORKING ON THIS RELEASE FOR OVER A MONTH

i swear i'm not just copying them

😔 🥀

[bold tusk]

well i run them all wrong and then i blame you when they're too strong

[quaint sequoia]

everything is luis' fault as per usual

[jagged frost]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-tennis-cat-meme-brick-cat-cat-brick-gif-1174694866650002420

[quaint sequoia]

https://tenor.com/view/asian-girl-brick-brick-throw-kill-gif-25574003

[jagged frost]

✦ Homebrews By Luis ✦ (Persephone's Return Pack)

[gritty ermine]

Luis is rereleasing the Catch

[jagged frost]

true!

[dull cove]

https://tenor.com/view/meme-gif-8948163688156071890

[spice prairie]

bro why is everyone releasing shit

[quaint sequoia]

im releasing explosive particles into the vents !! the building will explode in 2 minutes !!

[vestal burrow]

Idek im releasing today too prolly

😭

[clever robin]

I’ll be releasing a wild animal into the arena, you have 5 minutes to find a weapon

[plush imp]

https://tenor.com/view/asian-girl-brick-brick-throw-kill-gif-25574003

[quaint sequoia]

im such an influencer

[jagged frost]

look i was already working on it

if anything we're all copying Elluna

just saying

[chilly linden]

Get on it

[cinder hemlock]

Luis you should get a better internet provider, my connection is bad

[spice prairie]

what’s it 😏

[chilly linden]

Releasing stuff

[spice prairie]

releasing stuff 😊

😳

[thick delta]

am I the only one who's having issues seeing the characters

[cinder hemlock]

This kind?

luis.

[thick delta]

yes it looks like this from my POV and I cant see the characteres (drill sergeant tailor)

[unkempt oriole]

They are the slots for later releases.

[spring niche]

They aren’t all out yet, and I think the pages are not made yet for the ones that are out

[cinder hemlock]

You see... Luis SLAUGHTERED half the characters in his rampage

And now we are trying to find any crumbs

To what they've been

However

It was in a Pizzeria

And he was wearing his icon yellow spring bunny bunny

So we don't really know

Who killed them

[jagged frost]

yeah no the pages for the characters from christmas aren’t fully ready yet

but they’ll be ready by sunday

[thick delta]

ok gotcha no worries

[jagged frost]

The pages are now up 🔥

(@dry drift too, bc ik you asked for some of the jsons for them too)

[cinder hemlock]

Huh

Why is he lying

[jagged frost]

try again bc they are

(for the characters from christmas)

[cinder hemlock]

(any new link)

[cinder hemlock]

If only Luis made a cameo in his own collection

And added the Grinch

Ok nvm

It works

[jagged frost]

https://homebrews-by-luis.notion.site/Persephone-s-Return-Pack-3418b1bffab2807486c3ed0fa2dfa7a1?source=copy_link

[cinder hemlock]

Thanks Dr The TBomb

[red solar]

i think Doppelganger's ability text is misworded?

"You have an in-play Townsfolk & have their ability"

[jagged frost]

hold on

thanks for catching that lmao

i had it right on its token & json but not the almanac for some reason 💀

[red solar]

no worries!

[jagged frost]

i hope people appreciate the fashionista example lmao

people need to remember that you can indeed kill travellers

[plush imp]

Speaking of the fashionista, the json for it on its page has the dealer text

[jagged frost]

oh for fucks sake

[jagged frost]

bro it’s a 3-way tie come on 😭

[winged saddle]

oh nooo guess you'll have to release all three...

[finite fractal]

You owe me

[jagged frost]

i mean i will, i’m just checking which you want first 😭

[sharp topaz]

i voted for minion and i cant lose

so it has to be minion

[vestal burrow]

Now its a tie again now that ive switched my vote :3

oh nooo guess you'll have to release all three...

[dull cove]

I also voted for Minion (I know the lineup)

[jagged frost]

that’s shocking tbh

[dull cove]

In 100% seriousness there's 1 Minion I'm waiting for and you know the one

[cinder hemlock]

Luis

I guess you have to release all 3

At the same time...

Man

[unkempt oriole]

I've now over voted on Minion, so unless someone votes twice in the next 5 minutes, it's set.

[sharp topaz]

told you guys

[jagged frost]

✦ Homebrews By Luis ✦ (Running Morale)

<t:1776632400:R>

[cinder hemlock]

What's happening in 15 hours?

https://tenor.com/view/cat-kitten-scare-scared-cat-scared-gif-24306961

[errant nymph]

Everyone dies

[cinder hemlock]

Boomdandy clockdown

[jagged frost]

<@&1272694218204381244> hello!

Time for the first week of releases for the new pack

[errant nymph]

Hello

[jagged frost]

As requested you'd like a minion first so let's kick it off with...

“Tear the entire hinges down. Let's rewrite the history out. Blow the doors off their books. Turn it upside down, inside place.”

Introducing to you, the...

Anomaly

[Minion]

“Once per game, at night, choose that, the words “good” & “evil” are swapped in abilities until dusk.”

The Anomaly causes abilities to be read differently.

• While the words “good” & “evil” are swapped in abilities, if an ability should read “good”, it instead reads “evil” (and vice versa). If that ability looks for anything good, it instead looks for anything evil.

HOW TO RUN

Each night, wake the Anomaly. They nod or shake their head. Put them to sleep.

If they nod their head, put the “GOOD” & “EVIL” SWAPPED reminder in the centre of the left side of the Grimoire. Until dusk, if an ability requires you to check for something good, check for something evil. If an ability requires you to check for something evil, check for something good.

At dusk, remove the “GOOD” & “EVIL” SWAPPED reminder and the Anomaly loses their ability — mark them with the NO ABILITY reminder and remove their night token from the night sheet.

After the Anomaly chooses to use their ability, do not wake the Anomaly for the rest of the game.

https://homebrews-by-luis.notion.site/Anomaly-3e58b1bffab283f5a36c81ffd06e6195?source=copy_link

I'll be back with the next character <t:1776632897:R>

[errant nymph]

The Vortox, desperately trying to get someone executed on the chosen day

[red solar]

what other examples would this have an effect on?

Alsaahir

Pacifist

Tea Lady

[errant nymph]

Empath

[red solar]

does this reverse a General's info?

[errant nymph]

Bounty Hunter

[errant nymph]

It only flips the words in the ability I think

So they’d still give correct info, just about the new wording. So flipping the wording of General from “good, evil, or neither” to “evil, good, or neither” doesn’t change anything

[red solar]

i see i see

[errant nymph]

Lycanthrope can make an evil player register as good for a day, though idk how useful that is (especially since they can now kill evil players)

[red solar]

The Anamoly, using their ability and then immediately becoming the Farmer

[errant nymph]

The Marionette, suddenly thinking they’re an evil character

[jagged frost]

it's definitely a character that works better with homebrew characters bc you can cherry pick the ones that work

[errant nymph]

Would it affect Duchess too, or only player abilities?

Because flipping Duchess info actually sounds pretty cool interaction

[red solar]

admittedly i think this rocks with Alsaahir

[quaint sequoia]

right right the deacon protecting the most accurate evil player mhm mhm so true king

[jagged frost]

well it says "abilities", doesn't it

[errant nymph]

Well Courtier says “character” and it can’t drunk a Fabled character, so who knows

[jagged frost]

fair point

[quaint sequoia]

the spy might register as evil, or as a townsfolk or outsider (love wins)

[jagged frost]

Time for the next character though

[errant nymph]

Oooh, Boffin would grant a bonus evil ability

[red solar]

evil twin ...

[quaint sequoia]

oh god cannibal gaining the executed fearmonger's ability because they werent drunk as a good player wasnt executed

more reasons to hate cannibal

[jagged frost]

“If you ask me, I'd say it's quite weird to give a baby frankincense and myrrh as a gift.”

Introducing to you, the...

Embalmer

[Townsfolk]

“If a player dies by execution, their alive neighbours are drunk until dusk tomorrow.”

The Embalmer makes players drink in condolences.

• If a player is executed and dies, their alive neighbours become drunk immediately and stay drunk all through the night and all the following day.
• If a dead player is executed, the Embalmer ability does not trigger — a dead character cannot die again! If a player is executed but does not die, the Embalmer’s ability does not trigger. If the Embalmer is drunk or poisoned when a player dies by execution, the Embalmer ability does not trigger.

HOW TO RUN

During the day, if a player dies by execution, their alive neighbours become drunk — mark them with the DRUNK reminders.

At dusk tomorrow, all players made drunk by the Embalmer become sober — remove the DRUNK reminders (or move them to the new players).

I'll be back <t:1776633787:R> bc that felt way too quick lol

take this in the meantime

✦ Homebrews By Luis ✦ (Intentional Game Design)

[blazing tinsel]

I feel like I'd just prefer to use miasma in most cases, I'm quite worried about abilities choosing or learning good/evil charcaters

[blazing tinsel]

exes the Demons alive neighbour each day

[spring niche]

I love a good BMR type townsfolk

[clever robin]

at a certain point it's on you for not just executing the demon there

[jagged frost]

if you know who they are then go ahead lmao

[clever robin]

question for luis, what happens if the Embalmer is drunk to their own ability

it seems the sort of thing that should probably be in the explainer because droison loops are weird

[jagged frost]

by normal loop rules, all players are drunk

however it also means that the next executed player does not drunken their alive neighbours

[chilly linden]

bullet point 2 containing like 4 bulletpoints is a power play

[blazing tinsel]

I think it's great, it heavily encourages evils to care about their neighbours

[jagged frost]

(blame Steven, check Minstrel lmao)

[clever robin]

embalmer claim in final 4 trying to push town to execute the player opposite them instead of sleeping

[chilly linden]

Luis is late

[spring niche]

Anomaly is super cool with a lot of powerful effect based characters. Messing with how abilities work while still letting them trigger feels very tomb

[quaint sequoia]

alliteration, you get a Pyn Point™

(Pynt™®©)

[jagged frost]

shh i'm getting it right lmao

but i am here now lmao

Week 1 Character 3 is here!

“I came first.”

Introducing to you, the...

Spawn

[Minion]

“If there has been 1 nomination per Townsfolk or none nominated today, you become a not-in-play Demon tonight.”

The Spawn draws in fear before hatching.

• The Spawn counts how many nominations were made Townsfolk. If that number equals the number of Townsfolk players, the Spawn becomes a not-in-play Demon tonight.
• When the Spawn becomes a Demon, they act as the Demon that night too.
• The number of nominations required to hatch does not change, even if the number of Townsfolk does.

HOW TO RUN

While setting up the first night, count 1 step anti-clockwise from the Spawn per Townsfolk player — mark that player with the Spawn’s TIME TO HATCH reminder.

Each day, if any Townsfolk makes a nomination, move the TIME TO HATCH reminder 1 step clockwise, closer to the Spawn. (If it is already on the Spawn, do not move it.)

Each night, if the Spawn is marked with the TIME TO HATCH reminder. Replace their character token with a not-in-play Demon. Wake them and show them the YOU ARE info token & their new character token. Put them to sleep. Add that Demon’s night reminder to the night sheet.

Back <t:1776634910:R>

✦ Homebrews By Luis ✦ (idc)

I will say though that these final two are quite nice for scripting

which is a rare thing for me

[true shell]

(not to undermine the character you just dropped but) ANOMALY WOO

[jagged frost]

panfex when anomaly:

[gritty ermine]

also I was coonsidering making a script for some of these but Life meant i couldnt 😭

[jagged frost]

i mean you still can when you want lmao

[gritty ermine]

Hopefully I can, but it wouldve been nice to have one ready

[jagged frost]

the json data will be up in a bit

[jagged frost]

eh it's whatever

preparation is for nerds

[gritty ermine]

I guess we're both nerds then

Idk, i'll let you know if stuff comes up

[jagged frost]

something i'll say tbh is that i like how smooth the Spawn icon came out

[red solar]

it looks great yeah

what are those fancy eggs called

[jagged frost]

faberge eggs?

[red solar]

ah yes

[true shell]

i have a teensy script with this on and i've been waiting to test it, Anomaly is very funny

[red solar]

yes faberge

[quaint sequoia]

best eaten scrambled
but we dont discuss that script anymore

[red solar]

spawn reminds me of that but more metaphorical

[true shell]

i do want to make a full script with it at some point but as Luis said it's hard to script with

[quaint sequoia]

i need yall to keep me accountable this summer when i actually remake it

it was janky and bad and weird
but it was fun

[jagged frost]

we remember the folly incident

Paradox im on time

please don't ban me

time for the penultimate character for the week

“I don't get why anyone would be afraid of the dark. In the light, you can see everything dangerous. In the dark, why, you almost forget the machete is there.”

Introducing to you, the...

Iswaeva

[Demon]

“Each night*, choose a player: they die. Minions might register as anything.”

Iswaeva makes Minions look like whatever.

• Minions can register as any alignment, character, character type, or state, at any time.
• They can also register as anything, regardless of whether they are actually dead or not, since it happens due to the Iswaeva’s ability.

HOW TO RUN

Each night except the first, wake the Iswaeva. They point at any player. That player dies - mark them with the DEAD reminder. Put the Iswaeva to sleep.

At any time, you can make Minions register as any alignment, character, character type, or state. (Do whatever is appropriate, such as showing a different character token, nodding, giving finger signals, or allowing an ability to work that would normally only affect certain types of players.)

flavour text by the one and only BakedIce

[true shell]

funny ass icon

[spring niche]

The possibilities are insane

[true shell]

this is another one i really want to try and build a script around

[jagged frost]

it'll definitely be a useful Demon for me when i'm making scripts

[red solar]

yeah this one seems a lot more scriptable, i like how simple & effective it is

[jagged frost]

I'll release the final character for the week <t:1776635417:R>

[spring niche]

It’s cool that it can mimic things like resurrection

[jagged frost]

✦ Homebrews By Luis ✦ (Exit)

[finite fractal]

Well that's the greatest fecking name I've ever heard

[jagged frost]

thanks lmao

[spring niche]

time for the most legendary slayer bluff that can also preserve a minions ability

[jagged frost]

courtesy of me dragging my mouse back and forth bc i couldn't find something i liked that represented it 😭

[chilly linden]

run out of time for an icon?

[jagged frost]

nah i just wanted to do a confusion squiggle but i couldn't get it quite right

it'll definitely get updated

[chilly linden]

phew lol

[spring niche]

It’s whatever

[jagged frost]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/577980138155933697/1365711690531995759/Wowee.gif

okay

so

depending who you ask

the last character might be a favourite

it's definitely a favourite of mine

“I’ve never seen anything like it. In fact, I’m not sure I’ve seen it all.”

Introducing to you, the...

Birdwatcher

[Townsfolk]
“You start knowing the alignment of the player X steps clockwise from you. [X Birdwatchers (up to 3)]”

The Birdwatchers see further together.

• There may be one, two, or three Birdwatchers in play, irrespective of the number of players.
• If there is only one Birdwatcher in play, they learn the alignment of the player 1 step clockwise from them. If there are two Birdwatchers in play, they each learn the alignment of the players 2 steps clockwise from them. If there are three Birdwatchers in play, they each learn the alignment of the players 3 steps clockwise from them.
• Birdwatchers do not know whose alignment they know. For that, they must find out how many of them there are.
• When Birdwatchers are added to the game during setup, they replace other Townsfolk.
• If a Birdwatcher is created mid-game, only one is created.
• Similarly, if the number of Birdwatchers changes during the game, they learn the player corresponding to the number of Birdwatchers during setup.
• Birdwatchers act one at a time, not all together.

HOW TO RUN

While setting up the game, before putting the character tokens in the bag, replace zero, one, or two Townsfolk tokens with Birdwatcher tokens.

During the first night, wake any Birdwatcher. Count 1 step clockwise per in-play Birdwatcher, & give a thumbs up or a thumbs down according to that player’s alignment. Put that Birdwatcher to sleep. Repeat until all Birdwatchers have acted.

[spring niche]

We love watching birds, which is good cause we have no choice.

[jagged frost]

but yeah no i love birdwatcher

this is type of stuff that we thought of when we heard "useful for script building"

not fuck ass steward

💀

[gritty ermine]

Well this is Steward Idiot

[jagged frost]

it's steward but better

[spring niche]

I love the puzzle of having to find out who is your ping

[red solar]

saved the best for last i see

i love cool duplicate info townsfolk this is great

[jagged frost]

this example is inspired too

there are always the two players in any group that go after each other

so i figured i'd included a scenario like that lol

[jagged frost]

i'll see you all next week <t:1777237200:R> for week 2 of the Persephone's Return Pack

also if you have any questions at all, please do shoot them my way

[spring niche]

Is bird watcher + marionette cooking?

[jagged frost]

i'd say so

[quick fern]

can the spy registering as a birdwatcher change what X is for birdwatcher info

or is X hard based on actual set up

[clever robin]

if you don't think about it, birdwatcher is basically a noble

[surreal hill]

Iswaeva is the prob my favorite weird character name I've ever seen

The character is cool too don't get me wrong

[jagged frost]

hard based on setup from what i understand of xaan

[errant nymph]

Two things:
The first bullet point implies there can’t be 0 Birdwatchers, which is funny
If there are 0 Birdwatchers and then a Birdwatcher is made during the game, they would learn their own alignment, right?

[red badge]

"I came first"
...

[cinder hemlock]

Luis

Luis

Dr The Tomb

I have a wild proposal

So you know how zombuul can register as dead...

[vestal burrow]

Holy cow walmart Veil

(/j)

[winged saddle]

Wait you say this like it isnt intentional, I assumed that was a very intentional effect of Iswaeva’s ability

[spring niche]

it’s a feature

[winged saddle]

So anyways Iswaeva + Boffin + Recluse?

[cinder hemlock]

The day 4 golems invaded the town:

Or well 5 if you are playing 15p

Now

Listen

*role philo

[steel hinge]

now how misreg works

[vivid verge]

Philosopher (Townsfolk) - Sects & Violets

Once per game, at night, choose a good character: gain that ability. If this character is in play, they are drunk.

**Affects Setup: **False

[cinder hemlock]

*role barista

[vivid verge]

Barista (Traveler) - Sects & Violets

Each night, until dusk, 1) a player becomes sober, healthy & gets true info, or 2) their ability works twice. They learn which.

**Affects Setup: **False

[cinder hemlock]

Let me live in peace

🙄

[steel hinge]

never

[winged saddle]

Minions register as the demon for the boffin, give each of them the golem ability one night after the other

[cinder hemlock]

Yeah okay Zealot lover

[jagged frost]

tbf i was thinking about this and i think i’ll jinx it

[errant nymph]

Jinx what? Everything that could allow a Birdwatcher to learn information on “0”? Which would be Philo, Pit-Hag, and Boffin at least. Pixie and Cannibal can also do it, just requires more jank

[sharp topaz]

Why not just rule in the almanac that 0 defaults to 1 instead or something 🤷‍♂️

[jagged frost]

i was also thinking that but

raaagghhh

we’ll see lol

[spice prairie]

nah that's based as fuck actually

birdwatcher 0

huge

[sharp topaz]

All it does is confirm there was never a birdwatcher in play

which isnt very useful

and it doesnt really confirm it either

learning Good is usually the info youd get anyway

[cinder hemlock]

You could learn evil

To vortox check

🧠

[sharp topaz]

true

[clever robin]

using the fact that there's a +1 outsider that removed a birdwatcher from the bag to argue that there's actually -1 birdwatchers

[vestal burrow]

Checks ccw now

[blazing tinsel]

I'd argue Philo, Boffin, canni are all fine and

Boffin should add others so the info is off by 1

their*

canni already has one

Philo needing to actually consider risking wasting their ability seems fine too

ph making a useless birdwarcher seems the most meh

[lunar mural]

if there is 1 real Birdwatcher and a Marionette who thinks they are the Birdwatcher, does the real one learn the alignment of their clockwise neighbor from a distance of 1 or 2?

[jagged frost]

the Marionette is not a Birdwatcher so the real BW would learn their 1-step neighbour's alignment

[spice prairie]

birdwatcher so fire bro

[jagged frost]

ty ty my man

[lunar mural]

alrighty, i was just thinking that you'd have to add 2 Birdwatchers to setup and then choose the Marionette afterwards so X would technically be 2, good to know!

[red badge]

Could Spy increase X?

[unkempt oriole]

Spy can't affect Xaan, so no.

[quick fern]

does a Kazali decrease X if it turns a birdwatcher into a minion? or does kazali's setup effect happen after birdwatcher determines what X is

[jagged frost]

Kazali decreases X just like with Xaan

[cinder hemlock]

Mann

Imagine if Luis was Dragons

[vestal burrow]

Wait
Does Birdwatcher sync w Xaan
And if so, in Xaan 4, does Birdwatcher count cap at 3, or does Birdwatcher cap X to 3

[jagged frost]

nope

it's not like choosing a player from one character chooses for another

[dull cove]

Insider trading...

[jagged frost]

wdym lol

[dull cove]

I'm voting for the character I wanna see because I know which is coming LMAO

[plush imp]

i forgot what was coming !
therefore im voting in good faith

[spice prairie]

why isn’t the flavour for Birdwatcher

The Birdwatchers flock together.

[jagged frost]

well humans don’t really “flock” together do they

[chilly linden]

Not with that attitude

[dull cove]

Noooo Minion is loooooosinggg

[sharp topaz]

i voted townsfolk guys, its over 🫡

[red badge]

I voted for Minion 🫡

[spice prairie]

change character name to Bird

[spring niche]

Birdwatcher is a bird that watches. If you wanted it to be a human the correct term is humanwatcher

[jagged frost]

alright townsfolk is first

[cinder hemlock]

Imagine if instead of Townsfolk

We got Cityfolk

Heh

👀

[jagged frost]

Hi everyone, i have to postpone the release until tomorrow evening

but also here

✦ Homebrews By Luis ✦ (Falling Stars)

[cinder hemlock]

Quick guys

Cast a wish

[jagged frost]

hi chat

i was running DotP & doing uni work so i'm behind a tiny bit lol

but your first character is coming <t:1777324320:R>

alright

time for the first character of the week

“Brring brrrring! Hello my lovelies, I'm here now! I know you had to suffer the time that I wasn't but don't you worry your little head, I am here now. There, there. Brrrring brring.”

Introducing to you, the...

Regent

[Townsfolk]
“Once per game, during the day, publicly declare that, tonight, your alive neighbours learn who the other is if the other is good.”

The Regent introduces their neighbours to each other

• During the day, the Regent may declare to everyone that they are the Regent and that that are using their ability. That night, if both alive neighbours are good, then they learn who each other are. If only 1 neighbour is good, the evil player learns the good player but not vice versa.
• If the Regent uses their ability, it is their alive neighbours at the time of invitation, who will learn each other.
• The Regent’s neighbours wake one at a time, not together.
• The Regent may use their ability at any time during the day.
• If the Regent uses their ability while poisoned or drunk, they may not use it again.

HOW TO RUN

During the day, the Regent can publicly declare that they wish to use their ability — mark their alive neighbours with the BALL TONIGHT reminder tokens.

That night, if a player marked BALL TONIGHT is good, wake the other neighbour. Show the THIS PLAYER IS & the player’s character tokens, and point to them. Put them to sleep. Repeat for the other direction if applicable.

Then either way, the Regent loses their ability — mark them with the NO ABILITY reminder token, and remove the BALL TONIGHT reminders.

Flavour by BakedIce

I'll be back <t:1777325420:R>

[clever robin]

if you don’t think about it this is basically a noble ping

[dull cove]

This is neat

[unkempt oriole]

Nice game of chicken, something simple that I'll probably script with.

[clever robin]

certainly a very strong tf in a best case scenario, but the ability failing has some very interesting outcomes to come out of it

[jagged frost]

<@&1272694218204381244> i forgot to ping

heyo, it's release time, there's the 1st character (out of 4)

[red badge]

The text kerning is frying me 😭

[jagged frost]

i try lol

[surreal hill]

This is so many words

I think I understand?

Yeah ok I get it

Cool

[jagged frost]

(i'm open to other wordings if people would prefer them lol)

[surreal hill]

I'm trying to reword and there's just so many moving parts lol 😭

[jagged frost]

well in the meantime

here's the next character of week 2:

[red solar]

Once per game, during the day, publicly declare that your alive neighbors learn the other’s good character tonight.

[jagged frost]

“What do you mean Mr Morozov is back??? Haven’t you ever heard that if you don’t see them, they can’t see you? Or… maybe we do need something better than a timeout chair.”

Introducing to you, the...

Nimrod

[Outsider]

“If you did not nominate a Minion today, evil players may choose to rise tonight (Demons may not if 1 lives).”

The Nimrod is bad at keeping evil players dead.

• Each night, evil players who are dead may choose to rise & come back to life.
• However, if the Nimrod nominated a Minion, dead or alive, today, then evil players cannot rise due to the Nimrod.
• If 1 Demon already lives, then Demons cannot rise due to the Nimrod.

HOW TO RUN

Each day, if the Nimrod nominates a player, mark the nominee with the NOMINEE reminder.

Each night except the first, check who the NOMINEE is. If it’s a Minion, do nothing & remove the reminder.

Otherwise, wake each evil player & show the THIS CHARACTER SELECTED YOU & Nimrod tokens. They nod their head yes or shake their head no. If they nodded, that player rises — mark them with the Nimrod’s ALIVE reminder and remove their shroud. (They wake later tonight if they normally would. If they wake on the first night only, they wake now to use their ability.) At dawn, after declaring which players died, declare which player is alive again. (Do not say why.)

Flavour by Lady Mist

[surreal hill]

That's really different tho

[red solar]

it is?

[surreal hill]

Mhm

[red solar]

i thought who was also character

[surreal hill]

It's also not very syntactically sound lol

[red solar]

ah dang </3

[surreal hill]

Like if they're not a good character then your wording has no answer for what happens, implying they learn a "no"

[red solar]

well it’s okay let’s focus on the outsider

[surreal hill]

Ya

[jagged frost]

I'll be back <t:1777326796:R> with 2-2

✦ Homebrews By Luis ✦ (Wdym there a rock in the leaves???)

[red solar]

Nimrod is a great name for this concept

fits the vibe

[clever robin]

Nimrod never did recover from that pesky rabbit

[surreal hill]

This is cool!!! Might put it on necrovitality if I ever go back and edit it 👀

[jagged frost]

2 necro 2 vitality let's gooooo

[dull cove]

Indeed

[true shell]

if you're willing to forgo sensible wording convention, you can shorten "Once per game, during the day," to "1 day,"

/hj, i think

[jagged frost]

Hey

so

that was 30 minutes instead of 20

but that was totally planned

totally

bc of the 3rd character!

“We all have a five-leaf clover out there for each of us. I believe. I believe…”

Introducing to you, the...

Sham

[Demon]

“Each night*, choose a player: they die & their neighbours’ votes secretly don’t count tomorrow (unless just 3 players live).”

The Sham causes players near their victims to cast fake votes.

• If the Sham killed a player tonight & a neighbour of that player votes, the vote secretly does not count. The Storyteller still increments the vote tally out loud, as if the vote counted, but secretly it did not add to the tally.
• The Sham can make the votes of any player not count — alive players, dead players, good players, evil players, even themself.
• If just 3 players live, the Sham no longer causes votes to not count.

HOW TO RUN

Each night except the first, wake the Sham. They point at any player. Put the Sham to sleep. That player dies — mark them with a DEAD reminder & mark their neighbours with the VOTE DOESN’T COUNT reminders.

When counting out the votes, count as normal but pay attention whether a player’s VOTE DOESN’T COUNT. Announce the overall (maybe fake) number of votes & if they are/would be about to die. If a nominee has the most counted, real votes, then mark them with the ABOUT TO DIE reminder.

[true shell]

the left sides of tokens have been carrying this drop 🙏

[jagged frost]

✦ Homebrews By Luis ✦ (Shreka Lisa)

[jagged frost]

i'm just saying if anyone wants to get on my back about it, then they're invited to look at the Fang Gu token lmao

and it's better than what i used to do lol

[true shell]

oh dw i know this is true of canon clocktower too :p

anywho Sham!!

[jagged frost]

The 4th & final character of the week, the Minion, is coming <t:1777329035:R>

[unkempt oriole]

I love tokens that look like that

[clever robin]

what a bland name

[true shell]

i have no clue what i would build around this demon but i want to try because vote nullification is a cool and underutilised design space

[clever robin]

I wonder what character type Minion is

[true shell]

a new one

[clever robin]

sadly I can’t make a Shamwow joke about this demon because I do think this one is a bit milquetoast. Perils of being vote manipulation

[true shell]

i do wonder how it'll play out, neighbours of newly-deads are always going to be considering the possibility of a Sham, and its own ability can out itself

good with Legion, perhaps? they can be a bit more forward with voting since a shift in execution doesn't necessarily out them

[unkempt oriole]

I think it's fine to out it, as you'd be wasting vote tokens anyway

[true shell]

also, niche interaction, but this is a cool ability for characters that gain parts of/a Demon's ability

[true shell]

not necessarily, its neighbours of the chosen player, dead or alive

[jagged frost]

i mean the truth is that that's fine

this is definitely more engaging than steward imo

[clever robin]

I mean it’s certainly not bad

[unkempt oriole]

Yeah got that after. Probably an easy enough test one day, but specific choices can be powerful in late game.

[clever robin]

I’m specifically sad I can’t make the joke

[errant nymph]

Maybe it'd be less "milquetoast" (as Palsonny described) if it was "Their neighbour's votes secretly count the same as yours"? So you can force non-voters to vote, or voters to not vote. Stronger, but also people might be able to read into it? Idk

[clever robin]

the issue inherent to that is how messy vote manipulation can get

that swing moves fast

[true shell]

there's an interesting idea there but giving the demon x3 votes is a lot for good to manage

[errant nymph]

Yeah but if they overuse it then good can narrow in on who they are. Though it does run into all evil final 3 issues at that point

[dull cove]

Nah I like it as is

[crisp garden]

at that point I think you can force all evil final 3 in 10p+ games

[clever robin]

it’s perfectly fine as is

inoffensive perhaps but not bad

[errant nymph]

I mean yeah I don't think it's a problem as is, just not something I'm too interested in either

[jagged frost]

Alright

Here is the 4th & final character of the week

-# i hope you get where the hint came from

“Raise the floorboards. Why? I know what you're missing. Who? The last time you saw her was upon the prairie. What? Merrily skip-a-ling a-way-a-lay, hah!”

Introducing to you, the...

Boggart

[Minion]

“When you draw this token, look in the bag & Grimoire, & replace a token. The Storyteller replaces a 2nd.”

The Boggart messes with the bag.

• When tokens are being drawn, eyes are closed & the Storyteller wakes each player up to draw their token from the bag, as if it were night. This happens whether the Boggart is in play or not.
• Once a player draws the Boggart token, they may look at the remaining tokens in the bag, and the (partially complete Grimoire). Then the Boggart may either remove a token from the bag & choose a token to put in in its place, or may choose an already-drawn token from the Grimoire & choose which token it becomes.
• After this, the Storyteller does either of these actions too.
• The Boggart & Storyteller may not replace the Boggart's token but may choose any other token to remove & any token to replace it with.
• A token can only be replaced into play if it is/can be available, because it’s not in play at all yet or because the Storyteller can replace the original token.
• The Boggart’s ability is acting in the space between setup & the 1st night so non-setup abilities are not active yet, just like the Kazali.

HOW TO RUN

Before giving the bag to the players, ask all players to close their eyes. Wake the 1st player & give them the bag. They draw a token. If it’s not the Boggart, retrieve their token & put them to sleep. Repeat with all other players.

If a player draws the Boggart token, show them the Grimoire & allow them to search through the bag. They choose a token on the Grimoire or a token in the bag & then any other token (by pointing on the character sheet, if needed). Replace the 1st token with the 2nd. Put them to sleep. You must then do either of the two actions.

If an already-placed token from the Grimoire was replaced, wake the corresponding player & show them the YOU ARE info token & their new character token. Put them to sleep.

Continue with the rest of the bag drawings like before the Boggart.

[jagged frost]

Now how's that for milquetoast

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1089632027504025640/1386820815508471868/Soldier.gif

[clever robin]

now this is what we should be talking about

[true shell]

i dont get the clue

[blazing tinsel]

this has been my best try, it's a bit awkward in order but prevents any double meanings from "they"

Once per game, during the day, publicly declare that, tonight, your alive neighbours (if good) are learned by the other.

[clever robin]

I would like to replace a token with the big barnacle

[true shell]

(oh also i dids the flavour for this one ehehe)

[blazing tinsel]

has this been tested?

[jagged frost]

||Shreka Lisa -> Shrek + Mona Lisa -> Bog + Art -> Boggart||

[dull cove]

This is why I voted for Minion

[true shell]

pfffffft

[jagged frost]

unfortunately not yet, i would love to (and iirc there are some scripts for it in the making)

[dull cove]

Boggart my beloved #myBoggart

[true shell]

the flavour is so much funnier now that i see the art is a jolly ol' chum of a garden gnome

stop aurafarming lad ur 2 apples tall

[jagged frost]

once i do the token art properly it'd probably be a mix between a garden gnome and a more faithful form of a boggart

so pointed ears and all

[winged saddle]

Is there nothing stopping Boggart from swapping themselves onto the good team?

[dull cove]

Your token is in your hand

Not the bag or grimoire

[distant zenith]

It's pretty funny how evil team is mix of Eldrich horror like monsters and some tricksters and silly beings

[sharp topaz]

I love how almost all of these have the text dripping down the left side

[jagged frost]

Give a sec to remember the ruling here

[red solar]

im a bit confused by what the Boggart can replace a token with

is it just from the script

[clever robin]

theoretically yes

[dull cove]

It says in the HTR

[true shell]

now to wait for the characters that introduce the graveyard and exile as new zones for tokens to be in

[red solar]

ah okay cool from the script

[dull cove]

They choose a token on the Grimoire or a token in the bag & then any other token (by pointing on the character sheet, if needed). Replace the 1st token with the 2nd. Put them to sleep.

[dull cove]

Or the bag, or the grimoire

[jagged frost]

yeah no the Boggart can't swap their own, i forgot to put it in there

[red solar]

so what happens when you put a 2nd demon in the bag

[clever robin]

nothing on the HTR says you cannot pull out a token you palmed ahead of time just in case you pulled boggart

thus. big barnacle sweep

[jagged frost]

the ST likely replaces the old Demon

[clever robin]

this one is self balancing by way of ST

[dull cove]

Ah but what if Alice draws Baron, you draw boggart, and you turn alice into the No Dashii

Oh right

The storyteller removes the one in the bag

RIght yeah

[red solar]

yeah what if both demons are in the bag

[winged saddle]

I also assume players are woken up to learn their new role & alignment, which can confirm Boggart

[red solar]

ah wait the storyteller and boggart can choose the same environment

i thought 1 had to choose grim and 1 had to choose bag

[jagged frost]

yeah exactly

[dull cove]

If you put one in the bag, the ST takes the other one out

[jagged frost]

I need to add that to the HTR actually, so ty

[dull cove]

Do you get to know with certainty what the ST replaces?

[true shell]

legion boggart goes crazy cos sneaking in 1 legion is okay probably

[dull cove]

Like I know you get to see but what if you like. Don't

If that makes sense

[clever robin]

I severely question your scriptbuilding going on here

[dull cove]

Can you then go to the ST and say "Hey I didn't see what you replaced"

[jagged frost]

the Boggart goes to "bed" first

[dull cove]

Oooh

You don't get to know at all

[distant zenith]

Already possible if pit hag and legion is in same script.

[dull cove]

Wait actually question

Boggart is made mid game?

Nothing happens

Yeah?

[jagged frost]

yup

bc you didn't actually draw the token from the bag

[distant zenith]

The wording implies it's not allowed but just to make sure, is storyteller allowed to switch the token that you already switched?

Investigator>recluse>lunatic

For example

[dull cove]

Me when I steal a BMR character sheet from the grimoire to make my demon a Po

[red solar]

i admittedly dont know how this character strikes the balance between "makes an op change for evil" and "doesn't actually help evil significantly in their setup change"

but maybe playtesting can showcase that

[dull cove]

You can take something you want to bluff out of the bag

[red solar]

imo that doesn't qualify

[jagged frost]

yes but don't

[red solar]

like it's nice to say "i want to bluff this character" or "i want my demon to be the no dashii"

not sure how well that functions as an actual minion ability though

[distant zenith]

If this adds bounty hunter via token, a Townsfolk becomes evil right?

[jagged frost]

yup

[jagged frost]

realistically you as the Storyteller should be making up the difference or accounting for the excess

[distant zenith]

I assume there's already jinx between this and heretic

[jagged frost]

yup

[red solar]

hmm that's fair yeah

[jagged frost]

(e.g. if the Boggart puts in a certain Outsider into the Bag then consider also putting an Outsider into the Grimoire or otherwise make a replacement that makes it more annoying for good)

[red solar]

ah this can do a Godfather -1

[jagged frost]

the main thing to remember is that if a player's token changes after they drew one, then that means the Boggart drew after them

[jagged frost]

yup exactly

[red solar]

in this case, does the player not actually know their character?

bc if for example, the Boggart changes the Fisherman to the Farmer

the F's token is already in the Grimoire, so they never see the token change

[jagged frost]

nah they know

as per the (updated) HTR

you go back & tell them

[red solar]

ah gotcha gotcha

[distant zenith]

Btw, Question.

If this decides to change token to Lil monsta, then whose token was changed, would have no role? Or how will it work. Or there's jinx between these

[sharp topaz]

it seems odd to me that this sometimes is loud and sometimes isn't, unless im misunderstanding something

[red solar]

setup Wizard

[jagged frost]

jinxed

[distant zenith]

Makes sense

[dull cove]

It should probably be loud, to some degree

[jagged frost]

the loudness is somewhat up to chance bc of the variance with the order of tokens

[dull cove]

The storyteller can force it to be loud*

[jagged frost]

but also as a Storyteller you should be prepared to make it loud

[dull cove]

*unless the boggart drew first

[jagged frost]

(and fellow evil players should be prepared to bluff that it happened later too)

[sharp topaz]

Its not gonna always be possible to do that though

[dull cove]

Oh right it's not loud if only evil tokens have been drawn

[jagged frost]

literally the only way that happens, is if only evil draws first (& the bogg doesn't do something that suggests a further change to the evil team)

[sharp topaz]

Unless the meta is like, if the boggart changes the grim the ST changes the bag & vice versa, then it seems like the boggart altering' the bag is usually better

Since there's a better chance it wont announce itself to someone

Or not really better chance, more just like

[jagged frost]

well yeah that's fine

the price there is that you don't know who ends up with it

[red solar]

would the Boggart changing the Baron to a different Minion be an acceptable script interaction

[errant nymph]

Out of curiosity Luis, if the Boggart decides to add in a Minion, should the ST always/almost always remove a Minion, or is there some cases where they might wanna just make an Outsider into a strong Townsfolk or something?

[sharp topaz]

Ohh thats true

[spring niche]

I think the storyteller will just be more mean with their change

[jagged frost]

that's fine if the ST makes a good replacement

[red solar]

mhm that makes sense

[sharp topaz]

I assume the storyteller would change an outsider to something good

[jagged frost]

almost always if the Boggart replaces a good token with an evil token, you should be replacing reversely

[sharp topaz]

I actually really admire this 😭 good design

[jagged frost]

ty !!

[distant zenith]

One of the first things I personally thought was "would be funny if they change someone to be good boomdandy" which is in a way Saint but Not complete game over

[errant nymph]

Since this is in setup they'd be an evil Minion I assume

[distant zenith]

Oh wait right

I completely forgot

[jagged frost]

hey i'm not stopping you from bootlegging the bootlegger

[spring niche]

I feel for any demon being forcibly replaced by their boggart

[jagged frost]

is what it is imo

[distant zenith]

Assuming they even got to be a demon yet

But yeah

[jagged frost]

it's sadge but they were fired lol

[sharp topaz]

If I was the Demon and someone changed me into something like the Snitch I think id start crying

[red solar]

Snitch is crazy

special place in hell for that

[jagged frost]

i mean Snitch and Boggart together on the same script is mean in its own right

[distant zenith]

The theme of "minions betray demon" (in a way) is pretty popular (or at least last time I checked)

[errant nymph]

You'd feel especially useless because the Boggart already has the bluffs lmao

[spring niche]

Well you get to have a fun conversation with town the next day

[red solar]

1 Minion game btw

[distant zenith]

Yep that character. Some bank or meeting If I remember correctly is into ability

[sharp topaz]

Usually "minions betray demon" is unfun imo, but this is not that

[spring niche]

Honestly if I was bogart I would not replace the demon and then claim to be a demon who was changed

[errant nymph]

Yeah Chairman can fire their own Demon into swapping with an Outsider

[spring niche]

It’s interesting to do it all before setup, so it’s not really a betrayal

*during setup

[blazing tinsel]

it just feels really bad

you draw a demon and am probably a bit tense and lock in for a demon game

and to have that "taken" probably feels quite bad

[spring niche]

Snake charmers be like

[jagged frost]

tbh hearing different strategies come out for a character is pretty good in my eyes

[distant zenith]

I get why it exists but it's personally one of my least favourite roles out there

Granted the most fun I had with that was as evil Philo

[blazing tinsel]

one of the least fun parts of it imo

[jagged frost]

imo that's only bc people don't bluffing getting snake charmed as much

[dull cove]

...the bluffs are in the grimoire

Much to think about

[red solar]

bluffing this is a lot easier and honestly healther than bluffing a snake charming swap

[jagged frost]

i've been chomping at the bits as a Minion to bluff being snake charmed after my demon actually is

[red solar]

which i like

[clever robin]

question. what if I make a second Boggart in the bag

[blazing tinsel]

I don't really think it changes the expectation thing of drawing a demon token.

but certainly doesn't help since it makes the game a bit awkward to play

[red solar]

how?

where'd you get the token 😭

[clever robin]

pointing at the Boggart on script

[dull cove]

Choose from the script

It's in the HTR

[red solar]

i think the HTR should add something about token numbers then

[jagged frost]

hold on that's missing too

you need to have the token actually be available

[clever robin]

I figured this was unintentional but this was the funniest way to point out the missing thing

[spring niche]

Worse things happen in base clock tower. My first snv game I was put hagged into an outsider and then jumped too. Then the same pit hag turned me back into an outsider 😭

[dull cove]

That makes sense

[blazing tinsel]

they can, there is a reason I don't like snv

[errant nymph]

Then that Boggart also gets to make changes, which will obviously be to add a third Boggart, which will also...
-# /j

[sharp topaz]

st changes them back

[distant zenith]

Question. Let's assume they the token the last and everyone before them got their tokens. They change The demon to choirboy.

Now the storyteller need to change the demon back into the game to not cause instant game over. But in that scenario what happens to choir boy if we assume king isn't in game?

Is someone's token changed to king?

[distant zenith]

I mean extremely specific condition

But still curious

[errant nymph]

I think the implication of the ability is that the ST has to change a different token than the one the Boggart changed

[sharp topaz]

The st would probably just change the choirboy into a different demon is my guess

[clever robin]

this is after setup, so no need to add a king

[dull cove]

It's probably just. Jinxed

Like kazali

[errant nymph]

imo it works like Kazali, it can create "illegal" setups as long as the bag was legal

[sharp topaz]

Kazali isnt jinxed with choirboy though

[errant nymph]

Kazali isn't jinxed I don't think

It just says they can turn anyone

[dull cove]

Whaaaaa

[sharp topaz]

yeah its weird

[dull cove]

I don't keep track of this stuff

[clever robin]

yeah they codified Kazali as being after setup

[dull cove]

I have my homebrew friends and I keep track of their things

[clever robin]

so no need for any of those jinxes

[dull cove]

But not TPI

[clever robin]

now there's a jinx that BH doesn't add an evil if replaced by the Kazali

[sharp topaz]

but what if a BH is kazali chosen

would there still be an evil townsolk

oh

there is a jinx for that

of course 💀

[errant nymph]

It's during setup juuust enough to not be affected by n1 abilities (ex. Soldier, Goon), and after setup juuuust enough to not be affected by setup abilities (ex. Choirboy, Huntsman)

[clever robin]

after setup, before the start of the game

[distant zenith]

Found the perfect spot

[jagged frost]

109 messages to go...

[distant zenith]

It's pretty late for me so I will come here to discuss other 3 roles later

[dull cove]

1 more after this and it'll be 16661

[sharp topaz]

sometimes you are very ominous

and its scary

[dull cove]

GOT IT

[errant nymph]

Wow... A million messages...

[dull cove]

It'll say 16767

Also, nice

16666

[jagged frost]

nah it's funny

[sharp topaz]

it is but its also scary

[jagged frost]

icl it is insane though just how many messages have been sent here

[dull cove]

16k

[jagged frost]

i'm p sure it's the most out of all of the threads

[errant nymph]

Homebrew Brewery is second at just under 10k by the looks of it

[gritty ermine]

Also checking because I don’t remember

If the Boggart created an extra Minion in a b1 min game, what do you do?

Removing the Boggart themselves is bad, but you can’t turn the demon good cause there’s no demon

[dull cove]

Most big names are ~3k

[dull cove]

Remove the minion the boggart put in

[gritty ermine]

I guess you can undo the boggarts change but you probably should do other things if need be

[dull cove]

It's a shame to do but it's what you have at your disposal

[jagged frost]

i mean it depends on how much agency you have as the ST elsewhere

[jagged frost]

-# which is also one of mine 😭

[dull cove]

The people love ya, luis

Neva forgeddit

[jagged frost]

i wouldn't go that far

[dull cove]

The people know about ya, luis

[jagged frost]

maybe they don't love me so much that they complain enough to fill the channel

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/577980138155933697/1365711690531995759/Wowee.gif

[dull cove]

Sometimes forgeddit

[vagrant hatch]

#1221510239820447894 message
Marvel Snap?-

[spice prairie]

she bog till i gart

[sharp topaz]

Why is the icon for this a bear trap?

Cause they escaped from the trap or something?

[spice prairie]

nimrod was like a hunter

[jagged frost]

yeah a Nimrod is a skilful hunter

also

[sharp topaz]

oh interesting

[jagged frost]

a nimrod is an idiot

so it’s a 1 word oxymoron

[sharp topaz]

That's cool

[spice prairie]

well cuz it has the idiot connotation from a looney tunes cartoon

[sharp topaz]

I had to read regent like 3 times to understand 😭

[dull cove]

So Nimrod is a Hunter in the Bible, and one time when mocking Elmer Fudd, he compares the latter to Nimrod

A whole generation of children watched this, didn't know Nimrod was like. a bible guy

And so it got the connotation of just like. an Idiot

[sharp topaz]

i did not know that, cool name for a character

[dull cove]

I realise

I have missed the words

"Bugs Bunny"

From the above explanation

Elmer Fudd is. Not in the bible

[sharp topaz]

Pixlate's comment saved it dw lol

[dull cove]

😭

[clever robin]

as I said, Nimrod never recovered from that rabbit

[glacial edge]

have you gone through the whole bible to confirm this

[cinder hemlock]

I got lost hiking up a mountain, and I saw a shepherd. I asked him "How far up are we?" and he answered "HBL released new characters." That's how I realised, I already knew the answer. We were at the peak.

Shrek Lisa so peak i could DIE

https://tenor.com/view/one-piece-one-piece-animated-gifs-one-piece-anime-one-piece-hachinosu-one-piece-blackbeard-marshall-d-teach-gif-16343106473490930447

[dense grove]

interesting, does this not just give extra evils in one minion

(in more than 1 minion if you put in an extra minion, the storyteller just replaces a minion in the bag or on the grim, but in one minion you can’t)

if this is just a “You start knowing the grimoire (kinda) and choose one person to become an evil minion.” is this not the greatest minion in the game?

also I feel like this is variable depending on when the token gets drawn

if it’s first drawn, then you replace the best townsfolk with the best minion and literally nobody knows

if it’s last drawn, then you do the same thing but no matter what someone’s going to know

[true shell]

any extra evil you add can be removed by the ST, is my understanding

[dense grove]

oh, I thought that the storyteller has to choose a second different player

I fear it becomes kinda sad then? if I don’t even know if the storyteller just decided to undo my ability as a minion then like

“oh you swapped in a minion so I swapped them out”
“oh :( I drew the token first so I actually got close to 0 information and also did nothing, you turned me into a blank token”

[dull cove]

Well then.. don't force the storyteller's hand?

It's not a [+1 Minion] Minion. If you try to make it one, the storyteller will go "No you don't!"

Like. Just do somehting else with it

[cinder hemlock]

Just make a second demon

Why stop at a minion

[dull cove]

Because the storyteller can remove the other demon

The storyteller can't remove the Boggart because it's uniquely in neither the bag nor the grimoire

[jagged frost]

i mean that’s like philo choosing philo

you know what’s going to happen, so don’t try it

[dense grove]

I think the problem is that I didn’t

I said this because I thought it was an extra evil minion

at this point I think that it’s just a strange minion that does trinket effects at best

like if I’m first, this is a rly bad minion to draw to the point of being a blank token, if i’m last it’s much more powerful and it’s really strange to have minion strength based on something like when you drew your token

[errant nymph]

If you get it early then you can still remove a powerful Townsfolk with an Outsider alongside getting all the bluffs. That makes it essentially a Widow sidegrade, depending on how the ST acts

If anything I think it’s weaker if you draw it later, since then you have to announce your presence if you want to change a good player

[dense grove]

also philo choosing philo is a bad comparison bc it's the rules self drunking not the storyteller thinking you did too good and drunking you

[dense grove]

why doesn't the storyteller just change them back bc they think you made too good of a choice

[jagged frost]

bc there’s a difference between adding an outsider and adding a minion lol

[red solar]

maybe not quite as weaker in practice, bc if you draw it early and make a bag change, the storyteller can make your ability loud by making a grim change

[spring niche]

The storyteller making a choice is expected to be balancing. It’s like a wizard wish, if you try to do something too crazy, expect the storyteller to just nope it

[errant nymph]

Because you’re a Minion and your ability should help evil without just giving them a free win. It’s the same question as “Why doesn’t the Amnesiac ability just cause good to win instantly since it’s a Townsfolk ability” or “Why doesn’t the Wizard wish just add +3 evil players since it’s a Minion ability”. The ST has to balance them out to be useful to their team but not game breaking so that there’s… a game

[red solar]

i think my remaining concern here is that

[dense grove]

sure, but the wizard can and does wish for 1 extra evil and like gets it

[red solar]

it's a lot harder to reach that balance when the changes are somewhat restricted

wizard and amne can do literally anything, this specifically changes 2 in play characters

[dense grove]

I think if I'm someone who is reading a script with this for the first time and draw it

[blazing tinsel]

it's quite important to note that if you get denied here, your whole ability is gone

[red solar]

it can work as a "this helps evil but not in an overwhelming way", but I'd have to see it being done consistently to believe it

[blazing tinsel]

a wizard can be told no

this can't

[dense grove]

I'm just going to make a minion because nothing on this says "oh do smth else"

[blazing tinsel]

it gets screwed

[dense grove]

like a wizard might be told "I'd cost that pretty harshly wanna do smth else?"

exactly what moll's saying

[spring niche]

It’s an advanced character, you should try and predict what the storyteller would do to balance it

[red solar]

I mean okay this is also not the right way to go about it

[dense grove]

okay at this point I'm just changing myself to an actually useful minion

[errant nymph]

Notably, that’s only an issue in 1 Minion games. In 2+ Minions, the ST can and usually should replace the other Minion with a different role (maybe an Outsider). So you still get to choose a Minion role and maybe even a Minion player, but you don’t add one

[blazing tinsel]

you can't

[errant nymph]

You can’t choose yourself, since your token isn’t in the bag or grim

[spring niche]

If you play homebrew, you should know that +1 minion plus all the bluffs is broken

[dense grove]

oh okay :(

[blazing tinsel]

many of my players don't

[errant nymph]

Also, importantly, a Wizard +1 evil has a clue. This does not

[dense grove]

lot? lm? I've watched +1 Minion be find

[blazing tinsel]

I don't think it's as obvious until you make charcaters

[dense grove]

it does have a clue!

that's the way I interpreted it!

like just turn the SH into a Savant

[errant nymph]

LoT has a huge downside, LM isn’t +1 evil

[errant nymph]

It might have a clue that there was a change, but not necessarily what that change was. And that’s assuming you’re drawing late enough that the ST can change someone who already drew that would be suitable as a clue

[spring niche]

If you turn someone into an extra minion, you won’t get 100% canceled. They will likely be turned into an outsider, plus you still know all the inplay characters

[dense grove]

you don't

because you don't know what the storyteller made

or removed

[blazing tinsel]

you will know if the minion was removed

they won't be in Minion info

and can presume

[dense grove]

I mean like this is "[+1 Outsider]" with extra steps trying to be something more interesting

but also it doesn't allow for things to be interesting

[red solar]

it can also be a -1 Outsider, but other than that i generally agree

[dense grove]

"it can also have an unhelpful-to-evil setup effect"

I'd rather be the godfather

[red solar]

well the point is that you'd have a godfather bluff and see the grim

i dont think that's bad

[dense grove]

you kinda see the grim

[blazing tinsel]

but there is something you don't know

bluffs aren't safe

[dense grove]

except there's smth you don't know

[red solar]

you can do other things that are cool for you like choose the Demon type, choose who your Demon player is, make a specific character out of play so you can bluff it, but besides these and shifting Outsider count im not sure what this can consistently do

[dense grove]

if you choose who your demon player is then it's being crazy loud to be a cawthane (one of the weakest demons I've ever seen)

"make a specific character out of play so you can bluff it" until the storyteller puts it back in

[spring niche]

They aren’t going to put in the exact character you took out. That’s a yes but don’t

[dense grove]

how am I supposed to know that

literally the first like 3 insights about this character had to be explained to me

[red solar]

i mean yeah i agree, these are things that are cool from a social/group meta perspective but i don't think are powerful enough for a minion ability

[fathom venture]

i feel like it should just be allowed to do Minions & Demons added to the bag despite how absurd that is. "There might be a price." instead of "The Storyteller replaces a 2nd" I think is fine for a nonconformist set up character and lets the aura of the character remain intact

it can include replacing a character token as a price but other things too and allows the ST to let the character have full agency but balance the game through other means

adding an Outsider and a free bluff becomes a "safe" uncosted play, but you can get crazy with it if you want

[red solar]

i think that would put this in a better direction yeah

though that change on its own kind of just means that happens every game, which im not a huge fan of

but something that allows the ST to make a wider range of changes would be great

[red solar]

(going back to this point)

[dense grove]

yeah

[dull cove]

I think you're misunderstanding what is a very cool minion (IMO)

[red solar]

i think the design space is incredibly cool!

[dense grove]

You are probably correct, what do you think is the most interesting thing this minion does then?

is it not just adding an outsider

[dull cove]

You can manipulate the bag before anyone gets the tokens

It's silent character changing

Well, silent or half-silent

Even if the ST changes one in the grim, the good team still doesn't know what change you made

[dense grove]

sure but they know the best you did is turn a townsfolk into an outsider

[dull cove]

Depends on the bag

[red solar]

could you give an example of a unique character change the boggart can make?

[dull cove]

Unique?

What do you mean specifically

[red solar]

sorry bad phrasing

[dull cove]

Like, interesting?

[red solar]

i mean something other than shifting outsider count that functions as an example of the Boggart helping their team to the extent of a minion ability

something other than adding a minion or demon, bc as established earlier that gets more or less reverted

[dull cove]

I mean like, if this was TB for example, if there's a Saint, swap out a FT/Slayer/Librarian for a soldier or mayor

It's subtle manipulation

I'd rather be this than a Widow

[dense grove]

sure and then the storyteller replaces a second token

[dull cove]

Okay? And?

I fail to see your point

[dense grove]

so if it's going to be loud no matter what why would I do something subtle and not just swap the FT/Slayer/Librarian for a Recluse

[dull cove]

It doesn't have to be loud no matter what?

If the ST decides what you did is strong enough for your ability to be loud

Then yeah they'll change one in the grim

Could just be one in the bag

Like. After the ST changes a token, the bag should still be more evil-sided than it started

[red solar]

hmmm i mean this is interesting

but im not sure it justifies a full minion ability

[dull cove]

You also... see the grim?

[dense grove]

not the full grim which makes it much less useful

[red solar]

you're making a change that helps frame the Saint, but you might not know who the Saint is

[plush imp]

it also effectively means you got to choose whatever character you wanted to be a bluff

not even spy gets to do that

[dull cove]

Like I think the biggest comparason is Widow

And as I said

This is more fun than widow

[dense grove]

Widow makes someone peddle false info as though they believe it's true

I'd rather be the Widow

I'd rather know my grim is 100% accurate

I'd rather have my ability make someone peddle shitty info than just wallow in the sadness of being the mayor

[red solar]

okay this is a fair comparison

i do think your TB replacement has some merit

but what makes the Boggart replacement better than the Widow poisoning the Librarian?

[dense grove]

exactly

[dull cove]

You can bluff librarian

[red solar]

instead of replacing the Townsfolk, you've poisoned what's meant to be the support

why would you need to bluff Librarian

[dull cove]

Also, no ping

[red solar]

the Librarian is already giving false info

meanwhile for the Boggart swap, you might not know who you need to frame bc the Saint might still be in the bag

[dull cove]

I think if you're swapping 1 tf in the bag for another

[dense grove]

what if I'm the last to draw

[red solar]

and if you add a Soldier/Mayor to the bag, that might genuinely hurt you later on

[dull cove]

The ST isn't going to punish you by making it loud

[dull cove]

Then swap out the TF in the strongest position for an Outsider

If it's gonna be loud, be loud

The ST change is a balancing tool. If you draw last, you're in a worse spot. I wouldn't be surprised is the ST changed another TF for an outsider, or at least like. FT for chef

[red solar]

i think the value this brings is hard to justify as worth it, depending on the bag

TB as being the most stalwart script when the bag is randomized makes it a bad example for it, probably

but I think i could see my mind being changed seeing what nuanced things this can do on other scripts

[dense grove]

I think Boggart (Minion) - You see the grim unreliably. Someone might learn you're in play. [The bag is probably evil sided]

is like not a great ability and people going "but you do see the grim" and "but the bag is evil sided!" doesn't actually redeem it

[dull cove]

I think we'll disagree then

[dense grove]

I admit that it tries to do something interesting, but I think the actual mechanical impact is incredibly little so it ends up being disappointing

[distant zenith]

I feel like this goes to death manipulation scripts, but outside of it, using only official characters, it's almost always proven to be good outside Wizard Scripts, But yeah downside is evil is back. Granted this doesn't require nominating a living minion and you can go ham nominating dead minions constantly. I think it's easier to manage outsiders. While this seems quite devastating I think it's not as horrible as some of the other outsiders for a good team and even has a way to prove themselves (albeit they will be quickly get rid of,most likely) . On side note it's almost always should be on script with the professor to give at least even if small, but a plausible explanation on "the player that just revived isn't minion".

[dull cove]

More importantly, I think it wants Barber or Imp

Some reason to suggest that the once-dead player could be the Demon

[distant zenith]

I have thought of lil monta shenanigans. Perhaps you want to keep the minion alive because confirmed non demon, but it's Lil' monsta game!

I think scripts

Rather than game

[sharp topaz]

Doesnt it say a demon cannot rise if 1 lives? theyd have to execute the demon and 1 would immediately be revived

as to not end the game

which is very obvious

[distant zenith]

Theoretically speaking recluse exists but it would feel horrible

[spring niche]

There simply isn’t enough death manipulation in base game. The character belongs with other homebrew

[distant zenith]

Since recluse can register as demon to not end the game, But also not register as demon to Nimrod and keep game continuing, even If it's horrendous.

[distant zenith]

Yeah I agree

[sharp topaz]

It fails pretty badly if theres no way for a revived player to be a demon, so I think thats necessary

Lil monsta is a good choice I think

actually no

[dull cove]

No? You just. Revive a minion. Then swap to the minion

Bam, revived player is now the demon

[distant zenith]

What's night order

[sharp topaz]

That takes a while, but I guess so

[dull cove]

Not even on the same night

[distant zenith]

Does minions choice of revival goes before or after demon wakes to kill

[clever robin]

how about evil twin

that works great I’m sure

don’t think about it

[dull cove]

Just by the final day you need to not go "this player 100% isn't the demon"

[sharp topaz]

The more I think about it, the more I kind of dislike nimrod... im not sure

[distant zenith]

Imp and Lil' monsta Somewhat are on better choices

Technically fang gu to make people question "would they go for confirmed nimrod?"

[dull cove]

It works on the scripts it works on

[clever robin]

I mean I feel like the answer is don't put it on a script where it gets confirmed

[dull cove]

^