✦ Homebrews By Luis ✦ (Nerdy Meet-cute)

[gritty ermine]

I wondered why people were mentioning Juggler 💀

[polar bluff]

...

just sayin...

it would be interesting...

[jagged frost]

Hey chat,

I'm doing some finishing touches for the update (mainly JSONs and the script pages), but I'd like to float over an idea to you all.

What if the Mirage's ability became 1 of:

• "An extra rule is in play, even if dead. Each day, if you guess it, lose your ability & learn this, or instead, privately learn a hint to the rule."
• "An extra rule is in play, even if you die. Each day, if you guess it, lose this ability & learn this. You may stop guessing & learn it anyway."

Thoughts?

[red badge]

For the 2nd one, I'd say unless your rule is really devastating or smth, knowing what it is clears out a lot of the harm

like it's identity quickly becomes "Something bad happens & you learn it"

[jagged frost]

yeah true

[surreal hill]

I like the changes but really it just affects how you run it

I pulled the token and after d3 it was pretty obvious what happened

(won't share details here bc I'm pretty sure the details spoil some of the apoc secrets)

[surreal hill]

Notably the rule only lasted until d3, that's like important for this

[jagged frost]

yeah agreed

the main thing is that it 1) broadens scriptability, and 2) makes it easier to not get wrong

[rough basin]

1’s wording is confusing to me

what is it supposed to do

[jagged frost]

each day,

• guess
• or learn a hint

[spice prairie]

what if the mirage learns how close they are

[jagged frost]

hell no

that's just amne

[spice prairie]

😭

but amne is 🔥

wait nvm then it’s just TINMBH

[jagged frost]

yeah no there's a big reason that Mirage isn't that

[rough basin]

ok i see, on first reading i processed it as “guess, if correct it stops or you get a hint [about the thing you already guessed correctly]”

[red badge]

What if the 2nd was:

"There is an extra rule, even if you die. Each day, if you guess it, lose this ability & learn this. You may stop guessing & learn a hint instead."

[jagged frost]

that's the original thought icl

[sharp topaz]

So would the 1st one be like you optionally get to guess it or learn a hint for it

but not both?

"An extra rule is in play. This can be anything such as, “Evil executees poison their good nominators,” " GOD DAMN THATS BRUTAL

and kind of really fuckin hard to guess

😭

I think the problem with Mirage is that a majority of times the rule is either 1. possible to guess but might confirm the Mirage, or 2. Impossible to guess but won't confirm the Mirage

"The rule is that the Mirage's Townsfolk neighbors think they've been afflicted by the Cerenovus for the 1st two nights. The Mirage guesses that their good neighbors are afflicted by the Cerenovus for the 1st two nights." Like how in the hell would the mirage guess this in time

especially if they die and now theyre just cooked

I think the best route is to give feedback for non-confirming mirage rules, but you said that was too similar to outsider-amnesiac so idk

[jagged frost]

fun fact, a similar rule to that was done once, and solved

so it's not as bad as you'd think

and besides, they'd both come out and say "Hey I was Cere-mad"

[jagged frost]

<@&1272694218204381244>

Version 1.13.0 - "[[The Holy]] $#!% IT'S HERE !!"

• Released the New Year's Pack (finally) and added a DLC.
• Updated master json.
• Added showcase scripts.
• Created HBLX Almanac.
• Various characters now have tips and tricks, courtesy of Lady Mist.
• Bloodwrite is now jinxed with Summoner: "The Summoner may choose a player to become the Bloodwrite on the 2nd night."
• Wig Snatcher/Goldsmith jinx was reworded.
• The Crawler's good icon is now the good Crawler icon, instead of the evil Cobbler icon.
• The Matsuraid/Klutz jinx now stops the Klutz from choosing themself.
• Goldsmith has replaced Slayer on Hold This!.
• Guardian has replaced Mayor on In a Crowd of Thousands.
  https://homebrews-by-luis.notion.site/Homebrews-by-Luis-Home-Page-4e1f1063ae2a44d08bc77dd15f9c822c

https://homebrews-by-luis.notion.site/New-Year-s-Pack-2128b1bffab280728982eb90e43cdab0?source=copy_link

[jagged frost]

Also happy apoc day to those who celebrate

[gritty ermine]

Luis has promoted us to a pantheon

[jagged frost]

but yeah i'm going to uhhh

rest

enjoy the characters that you have for now

bc this was a lot

😭

[red badge]

We got a year's worth of HBL content in like, 2 months

[jagged frost]

anyways see you all next apoc day lmao

[red badge]

NYP is a yearly event

[jagged frost]

not quite lol

56 characters

holy moly

[surreal hill]

HUGE

[clever robin]

congrats on successfully pivoting the nyp into an anniversary pack

[jagged frost]

also

i ran a game of Dance of the Planets earlier

and it's fucking great

v v hard to ST tho

[lethal abyss]

^

[jagged frost]

huh

what

[lethal abyss]

Might have

Centurion is unlikely to reach its lose-con

[jagged frost]

correct

it's not there to make it lose

it's there to make it not win lmao

[lethal abyss]

I mean

Just have Assassin Poppy Grower if you don’t want Centurion to reach lose-con

It’s just unlikely to lose even without these two

[red badge]

The point of the Centurion losecon is to stop it from intentionally persuing all evil f3 to instantly win

[lethal abyss]

Assassin guarantees evil can win though

[red badge]

Which it has a much easier time doing since in a 2 Minion game 2/3 of the evil team can't die

[lethal abyss]

Just nuke the Centurion

[red badge]

Yes, killing evil players to avoid the losecon is fully intentional

[jagged frost]

Yeah the entire point of it is to give the good team a final 3 that they can actually win

Bc they can’t win elsewhere

[dense grove]

can't Assassin skip f3 though?

[jagged frost]

Yes but 1) that’s assassin, 2) script issue

[dense grove]

makes sense

[gritty ermine]

If there are 3 players alive, you'd technically have another day as well, right?

Actually no im wrong

But yeah script issue

[lethal abyss]

1 good vs unspent Assassin + Centurion + Demon is evil win

[jagged frost]

Also disregarding Centurion, this is literally one of the worst script-building/homebrewing habits to have

[lethal abyss]

Assuming the Good isn’t something like Sailor

[dense grove]

killing minion + poppy grower kinda crazy

[lethal abyss]

Princess Assassin

[rough basin]

what is centurion?

[dense grove]

“If 5 or more non-Travellers live, you & the Demon can’t die. If only evil lives at dawn, evil loses.”

[rough basin]

ty!

that’s peak

[gritty ermine]

Basically, if you suck at the game, you're guarenteed to reach final 3

[rough basin]

whoa

[jagged frost]

*unless

[lethal abyss]

Centurion players aren’t that stupid

[red badge]

No it takes skill to lose before f3 as Centurion

[gritty ermine]

potato patato

[lethal abyss]

They know they have to die

[jagged frost]

You know what, fair play

[gritty ermine]

No?

You kill the non Centurion Minion

[rough basin]

no she’s right either way you get to f3 it’s just that centurion lets you get there even if you suck and let the demon get executed

[jagged frost]

Fair fair

[rough basin]

“suck” being reductive but still

[lethal abyss]

Cult Leader save

[jagged frost]

Honestly questionably I can’t tell if you’re joking or not

[rough basin]

evil and/or script building skill issue

[gritty ermine]

Assumes the Demon kept the Cult Leader alive & in posistion. And thats either a skill issue or a script issue

[jagged frost]

But yeah tldr: it’s ET but for Demons

[gritty ermine]

Centurion loss con is more akin to Vortox, in the sense that its not there to actually win or lose most times

Its there to force you to engage with the mechanics without using especially unfun methods or loopholes

[lethal abyss]

@jagged frost Is this following scenario illegal?

||Soul Binding a Baron to Sentinel||

Wait 👀

[surreal hill]

Soul binding fabled is pretty sketchy if it's legal

Idk if it is, it probably is

But like now the good team just knows a baron is 100% guaranteed in play

[lethal abyss]

Paradox 😨
||Soul Binding the Soul Binder with any other character||

[surreal hill]

Or out of play

[lethal abyss]

|| Also this just makes Baron setup text be [+1 to +3 Outsiders]||

[dense grove]

[+1-3 Outsiders] Sentinel can make no change

[lethal abyss]

It looks like -3 🥀

[sharp topaz]

[+1 to +3 Outsiders] looks better

[rough basin]

it’s also consistent with other characters like kazali

[lethal abyss]

[-? To +? Outsiders]

[ornate hemlock]

Riot??

[jagged frost]

Uhhhhhhh

Probably not?

The main issue being that ||you’d have to declare if the Sentinel is in play or not at the start, meaning that everyone knows if a Baron is in play or not too||

[lethal abyss]

It’s just for the ||[+1 to +3 Outsiders]||

[jagged frost]

sure but, ||nice you've now confirmed that the Baron must be in play||

[jagged frost]

hey chat

here are some cool characters for you

[gritty ermine]

What’s next, he’s gonna make us play chess or balatro or tic tac toe in my BOTC?

[jagged frost]

yes

and officially:

[clever robin]

3/10 no blueprint synergy

[mild grotto]

How do I get mult

[finite fractal]

I have red seals!

[rustic otter]

begins porting Balatro mechanics to Clocktower /JokingThreat

[surreal hill]

BALATRO

[jagged frost]

Wdym ofc there is, you get +2 Minions

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/577980138155933697/1365711690531995759/Wowee.gif

[surreal hill]

Wait blueprint traveler would be so funny

That kinda just amounts to barista tho

[jagged frost]

Yes but no

[clever robin]

matron + apprentice

it can move around and gets an ability based on it's right neighbor

[flint crest]

oh shi they're public now, nice

[flint crest]

also this is just a dope townsfolk. detecting what evil characters are in-play via deaths but wanting to hide their own existance

i imagine this acts after all kills and is around the same night order as gossip right?

[flint crest]

also with balatro here, horse plinko time

[flint crest]

actually i just realized

luchador replaces gossip quite well on HORSE PLINKO

[lethal abyss]

Does Puzzle learn Kukalpa’s nominator

[stray otter]

yeah

[jagged frost]

Yeah whoever has the soul is for all* purposes “the Demon”
-# *most

[stray otter]

*some

[jagged frost]

I’m telling you the jinxes shouldn’t be a thing

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1171988135471755274/1173825535474929674/869641195914141698-1.gif

[jagged frost]

So bc there’s been an infinite number of people complaining at how broken this is

I’m considering making the setup “[+1 Minion. It might be a duplicate.]”

(It also stops 3 minion games from being solved)

[blazing tinsel]

"[...] a naninf number of people [...]"

[jagged frost]

Yeah I thought of it but decided not to lmao

[blazing tinsel]

XD

[jagged frost]

To be clear btw, these are some things which I will not add/change with Balatro:

• A red herring/faux paw,
• “unless an evil player died today…”

People have suggested them, but I don’t really find them to be satisfying solutions

When one is just a plaster, and the other is just part of the ability anyway

[blazing tinsel]

Unless the demon kills you, they kill an alive minion instead

[jagged frost]

I thought of that too but ironically I feel like that feels worse than what it is rn

[blazing tinsel]

I agree

As is, it's an amazing bluff

Buys you life for most of the game

[jagged frost]

Bc at least w the current version, the Demon can actually choose which Minion to kill

W that tho the ST just says “Tax time :)”

[blazing tinsel]

Yeah, just does give evil a way out

[clever robin]

If the Demon would kill another good player, a living Minion dies instead.

[jagged frost]

Same thing w the same issue

It takes away more agency than it gives

[clever robin]

I mean the demon can still choose which minion to kill if they don't try to kill the balatro

[jagged frost]

Yeah but when will you see that

[clever robin]

I suppose that, even if it is objectively an increase in agency, nobody will actually use it that way

[jagged frost]

You can lead a horse to water but you can’t force it to drink unfortunately

[clever robin]

maybe make it only active while multiple minions live?

probably scales too poorly

[flint crest]

i mentioned earlier but i really think it should allow demon to still attack themselves for any suicide benefits like imp, zombuul, or scarlet woman

i was originally a big doubter of balatro, although now i think its fine as is in places where it does belong, albeit the lack of a faux paw does definitely confine it on what scripts can include it in the first place

its fragile, but not as fragile as something like evil twin which is wholly parasitic and requires pit-hag, vigor, and vortox almost always in order to be fun

also i just realized, but what happens if Balatro in-play & innkeeper softlocks demon by protecting minion over and over?

[errant nymph]

I wonder if adding “Even if they could not” would work

Like their kills have Assassin effect while the Balatro lives

[lethal abyss]

That
would be
a solution.

[clever robin]

I feel like this is just a script issue

[jagged frost]

i'd rather just say "if they can"

[dull cove]

You can lead a horse to water
You can leave your horse behind
'Cause your horse don't drink
And if it don't drink
Then it's, no horse of mine

[jagged frost]

here's another one that i meant to show:

okay goodnight

Is it a townsfolk, is it an outsider, who knows

I know

But you don’t and that’s funny

[ornate hemlock]

that's a Townsfolk

surely

[mild grotto]

yes

[ornate hemlock]

repeatable moonchild on command is pretty good

[steel hinge]

it is

[surreal hill]

it's so necrovitality coded

Can I even fit it on

Oh separately this is cool with Boffin

What's the second reminder

[mild grotto]

probably "nominated" (or similar) and "dead"

[surreal hill]

Moonchild is so similar and only has 1

[flint crest]

ooo its like faketier's duke. that character plus this one are also pretty good and fit nicely for deathpuzzle scripts

[rough basin]

yeah it really only needs the "dead" token

[steel hinge]

count but yes

[jagged frost]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1234165079646408714/1383951260474151044/IRember.gif

[jagged frost]

See I considered that, but I feel like it becomes a bit weird w the HTR

Bc w Gossip, you’re supposed to place the reminder in the centre of the grim

That’s why it works with only Dead

But w this you have to actually mark someone

✦ Homebrews By Luis ✦ (FROM THE TOP ROPE)

[rough basin]

this is why we’re using moonchild as our precedent and not gossip

[jagged frost]

you know what

fair play

good thing that I haven't written the almanac yet 💀

[spice prairie]

balatro vig 😭

oh no my steak is too juicy and my lobster too buttery

[jagged frost]

LMAO

i mean it's still info tho

[polar bluff]

rember

[bold tusk]

force people to flowchart win

[jagged frost]

Alr I’m going to try and make a script w the post-NYP characters

So wish me luck

• Tea Leaf
• Luchador
• Balatro (updated w duplicate minions)
• Prizefighter

Surprise surprise it’s a tomb script lmao

(Wait why are these all interesting together 😭)

[spice prairie]

tea leaf? what’s that

[steel hinge]

something something minions do something stupid

[jagged frost]

Oh shit I haven’t released it officially lmao, give me a sec

[spice prairie]

brother 😭

ts is so busted 🗣️ 🔥

also doesn’t this mean that a Minion can resteal their character from the Tea Leaf

oh boffin Tea Leaf goes hard

[jagged frost]

Funny you should say that

But yeah the fact that Minions can then use TLeaf to shuffle around is why it isn’t busted

And in a similar context, slayer straight up wins the game???

[spice prairie]

oh wait this was for the OPG contest

god my memory is so bad

[jagged frost]

Yeah lmao

[jagged frost]

It’s alr tho, this is why constellation exists lmao

[spice prairie]

god bless

[blazing tinsel]

Whats the text of updated balatro

[jagged frost]

Demons must attack alive Minion (if they can die). [+1 Minion. There might be duplicates.]

[surreal hill]

I liked the old setup better tbh

I'd rather see a heretic baron jinx for minions than duping minions like that

It's not the end of the world or anything tho

[jagged frost]

Eh personally, making the Minion suite trivial in large games isn’t it for me, but also it’s a way to nerf what is quite a strong ability

and blueprint is a thing so

[surreal hill]

BLUEPRINT MENTIONED. MIND CHANGED.

[flint crest]

alchemist but base.d..

[jagged frost]

That feels close to an I Rember but I won’t post bc it’s close

Like I’d rather people just say that they like characters without always saying “omagerd it’s this one that I like but different”

That’s why I Rember exists

So having thought about it:

[jagged frost]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1234165079646408714/1383951260474151044/IRember.gif

[flint crest]

i have no train of thought, only funny moments. 10% of my brain is used for rational discussion, 90% is towards the current hyperfixation, now set on: filipino cryptid-spotted videos

in short about tea leaf, all i can say is that it looks more fun than the alchemist. higher risk, better reward - something i can see myself putting onto a regular HB script.

[blazing tinsel]

I'm saving an image of these 2 messages, not to share around but because I think they are good and if I see the image in a few months it might cheer me up

[jagged frost]

Fair lmao

[jagged frost]

Truth is that w the right script that is can go both ways

Assassin cycling go bbrrrrr

[flint crest]

true, although i consider characters that give more expression and power to players more beneficial overall for creating better games

a shame tea leaf didnt arrive months earlier

[jagged frost]

Sadness 😔

[clever robin]

Blueprint (Townsfolk): You have the ability of your counterclockwise living neighbor. If they are evil, you are poisoned.

[jagged frost]

if so, what script
-# and why is it HBLbucket

[surreal hill]

HBLbucket 😭

I'd play that tho

[jagged frost]

I'm saying HBL + b4 to be clear lmao

bc the Demons would just instantly get outted 💀

[surreal hill]

Coward <3

Ignore the fact that there's only 12 tf we can just play a 1 minion game and it won't break

[jagged frost]

well acc w the new 4 that's not a problem

(and the 5th that i've submitted for the comp)

[surreal hill]

Oh true

[jagged frost]

(i'm currently doing the wikis for them but i'm having a hard time figuring out Luchador's night order)

[flint crest]

add frank, the best botc character, into this collection

everybody loves a frank...

so much gameplay and social potential with their power to frankly do whatever they want whenever they want

its a part of the 16th amendment btw - god said that on the 703420th day, Luis will add frank

u cant deny the enevitable luie patooie...

[jagged frost]

what the fuck is frank

is it Dave but Frank

[flint crest]

frakn...

[flint crest]

who the fuck is dave, sounds like a hater...

are you referring to the retired tir-far traveller?

eitherway, dave doesnt sound like frank, so its not frankalicious in my eyes

add frank to the collection, then it changes eveeytging....*

[jagged frost]

anyways

[jagged frost]

please fill this interest poll pls

[flint crest]

what script?

[jagged frost]

any

[flint crest]

any recommended ones?

[jagged frost]

well if we're feeling spicy, we could do HBL+b4 bucket

but otherwise we can do some of the new scripts

[flint crest]

eh, i dont like buckets

without a concise script theme and gameplay, it just feels soggy

[jagged frost]

valid valid

[jagged frost]

btw this doesn't have any flavour text yet

so if you have a suggestion, feel free to type it

[flint crest]

"Float like a butterfly. Sting like a butterfly. I like butterflies." :)

[jagged frost]

that's cool but i think i'd rather the real quote acc

[flint crest]

"Oh no, I got that fight or flight feeling again, and I'm flighting!" alt idea cause i love mtm

[subtle laurel]

How familiar are you with the hit 2006 movie Nacho Libre

[clever robin]

You know they say that all men are created equal, but you look at me and you look at Samoa Joe and you can see that statement is not true. See, normally if you go one on one with another wrestler, you got a 50/50 chance of winning. But I'm a genetic freak and I'm not normal! So you got a 25%, AT BEST, at beat me. Then you add Kurt Angle to the mix, your chances of winning drastic go down. See the 3 way at Sacrifice, you got a 33 1/3 chance of winning, but I, I got a 66 and 2/3 chance of winning, because Kurt Angle KNOWS he can't beat me and he's not even gonna try! So Samoa Joe, you take your 33 1/3 chance, minus my 25% chance and you got an 8 1/3 chance of winning at Sacrifice. But then you take my 75% chance of winning, if we was to go one on one, and then add 66 2/3 per cents, I got 141 2/3 chance of winning at Sacrifice. See Joe, the numbers don't lie, and they spell disaster for you at Sacrifice.

[mild grotto]

My knowledge of this reference predates my knowledge of wrestling

[clever robin]

it’s a classic

[flint crest]

btw, which one scripts are the new scripts u were referring to?

most of my brain was devoured by computer science

so i deter to say i cannot infer on what you refer to prefer

[gritty ermine]

I assume Heaven Style Country Music, Dancr of the Planeys, and Behold the Grave

Oh and Tesselatr

[flint crest]

tesselate seems like the best out of the 4, although i feel its predominantly evil sided only cause of the pit-hag having the ability to swap out baron and spy and also having 1 more outsider to create, plus the drunk

id be down for that, not sure about the other 3

[stray otter]

btg is pretty good according to the playtest data i know of

[flint crest]

my ass is not playing a script with 0 reasonable droison

also gambler with no extra kills or death reduction sources

[stray otter]

dont play it then but im pretty sure it works

in fact last i know it was evilsided

[stray otter]

(there is literally a genie)

[flint crest]

thats a wildcard source, thats not necessarily healthy to attribute as the only poisoning, extra kills, and death reduction sources, especially when it has a real tail to follow in the form of hearing what evil players publicly say

[stray otter]

sure but genie + summoner + the fact that the whole time youre dealing with the stress of crown

its not a goodsided script

you can dislike it

thats fine

but like, the script functions, as far as im aware

[flint crest]

eh, it feels very swingy where any team will just overshadow the other, and any team losing early on has little chances of clawing back to victory compared to normal

[stray otter]

alright

ill say this as someone who usually quite enjoys balanced scripts: a script doesnt need to be really balanced to have a fun game

[flint crest]

i dont think a lack of powerful good sided information justifies the lack of droison

[stray otter]

this scripts whole purpose is going "these 3 minions and this demon are all very tomby"

[stray otter]

i fundamentally disagree here but alright

ill stop discussing here as its quite late and i should be going to bed

[flint crest]

balanced here is subjective. i feel as though evil needs space to justify them being good, otherwise their voice is just drowned away, and goes against the primary spirit of BOTC for allowing anyone to talk at any time

[stray otter]

okay one last thing you do recognize that thats always the case right, but thats not exactly a script issue, thats an issue of playing wrong

[flint crest]

ive seen in TB that the unlucky demon slained day 1 just loses their voice the entire game, and thus is no longer able to socialize, chat, communce, or have fun n discussions

[stray otter]

like if an evil team claims soldier saint against empath ft they get fucked

thats just skill issue

im not sure how its relevant to the conversation at hand

but im gonna actually go and sleep now

[flint crest]

that makes sense, although i cant control how other players play. i typically give them as much freedom as they want so their conversations and social interactions are just natural and healthy

which is why i think its important to prepare against worse-case scenarios where the players just choose not to talk to the outed evil player by making scripts catered towards giving evils the bluffs needed to actually give them a fighting chance

otherwise it just falls into the TOS-like mentality of one side being the cannon-fodder needed for the other team to exclusively have fun

[tall tangle]

I just wanted to say thank you for the Bloodwrite. I had a player in a Bloodwrite game who was babysitting "An Owl" (A player babysits An Owl & if good their ability is now: "At night you might register as an evil Demon." If the babysitter is put on the block a new player babysits.) and was upset when players dropped their hands when she was trying to get people to shoo her Owl away from her. When one of the Bloodwrite chosen offered to add an additional Owl to the game, this let me wake her up the following night to tell her she was now babysitting two Owls. She was chosen by the Bloodwrite that night, and offered in turn for the player who gave her the additional Owl to become an Outsider. My intention? To turn that player into the Worrywort (from The Bazaar, which was on script and allows for false announcements) and then go back to her that night to tell her she was now babysitting 5 Owls. I'm very impressed by the Bloodwrite.

[jagged frost]

Holy moly

[jagged frost]

But also thank you for playing with it!

[modern ferry]

Gave +1 Thanks to @tall tangle (current: #2807 - 1)

[jagged frost]

It’s definitely a weird one bc it’s a magic character but the players know what they’re adding

So it being so non-conformist doesn’t really matter as long as you have a good ST who doesn’t accept “I & evil win” lmao

[tropic flume]

Is that a bucket game of all homebrews to grace this Earth

[quaint sequoia]

also if that's tir's cosmonaut you've spelled it wrong in your json 😭 im assuming it is bc its the same art and you're using carpenter which is another of her characters

[flint crest]

is that naught the name?

[steel hinge]

i question how you misspelled in copypasting

[tall tangle]

Well it's a buffet, but basically yes.

[tall tangle]

I did not copy-paste, as there was no JSON coding I was aware of, so I added it to the JSON by hand. I've now corrected the misspelling.

[dull cove]

@tall tangle I'm intrigued, what were the cosmonaut statements?

[tall tangle]

Okay, this will need a little script context so I'll include an image of another role on the script. Statement 1 was "A salesman has something to learn by failing to make a sale". This was because Felruth (picked by the Bloodwrite) was, at the time, a Snake Oiler (which is a type of salesman) and was mad about being the Privateer, which the Demon was also bluffing although the two of them had yet to talk. Based on the Snake Oilers ability, they wouldn't die in the night, which would then point to the Demon not being the Privateer. Unfortunately for Felruth, they nominated and executed the Carpenter that day (whose ability I know you know), which changed their character and allowed them to die in the night. This lead to the Cosmonaut's day 2 clue that "The salesman's disposition changed, to their terror". When the game ended, the Cosmonaut stated that they had no idea what their information meant, but Felruth immediately chimed in and noted that he was well aware of what it meant, and explained it publicly.

[dull cove]

I see

[spice prairie]

does anyone have any tips for running Atrocities in the Auction House? was thinking of scheduling it sometime in the future

[lethal abyss]

Watch the Artist

[jagged frost]

The only tips I really have are re: Bloodwrite, in that, keep in mind that anything can & will happen

So leave a bit of space for it to

[lethal abyss]

Artist Demon snipe D1

[jagged frost]

Hey chat we’re back

✦ Homebrews By Luis ✦ (Sign here with your last initial)

[gritty ermine]

Lady Mist claims Psychopath and kills Luis

(dont worry, my Boffin Professor Demon will bring you back)

[jagged frost]

I’m kinda proud of this hint icl

[mild grotto]

is my last initial the last latter of my first name/last name, or the first letter of my first name? or something else?

[jagged frost]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[surreal hill]

Your last first

[jagged frost]

What about your 2nd (n-2)-th

[surreal hill]

If we keep this bit going too long we're gonna solve the Riemann hypothesis by accident

[jagged frost]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1200826833101402172/1252198691884761220/trueline.gif

[gritty ermine]

Oh I know what this is

That's smart

[jagged frost]

Thanks lmao

[opaque cloud]

First letter of your last name

[surreal hill]

Lass lefter of your fist fame

[jagged frost]

Bames nonds having a stronk

[surreal hill]

call a bondulance

[vestal burrow]

Bloodwrite frfr

[jagged frost]

registrar frfr

[vestal burrow]

real

[finite fractal]

for

[gritty ermine]

the

[blazing tinsel]

first

[surreal hill]

time

[finite fractal]

in

[jagged frost]

forever

[vestal burrow]

💀

[gritty ermine]

https://tenor.com/view/forever-for-the-first-time-in-forever-frozen-anna-gif-7539283

[quaint sequoia]

there'll

[lethal abyss]

be

[errant nymph]

Matsuraid

[blazing tinsel]

jinxes

[jagged frost]

only

[lethal abyss]

for

[vestal burrow]

the

[lethal abyss]

unaware

[blazing tinsel]

&

[surreal hill]

aware.

How does kukalpa goblin play out in practice? I get that the jinx makes it a non breaking interaction, but is it like goblin/SW where there's basically no town that can deal with both at once or is it generally fine

[red badge]

Presumably, once you solve that it's a Kukalpa game it's not much harder than any other Demon

If X is the Demon then we kill into that world. If we're correct, no Goblin win.

Kukalpa just changes what "killing into that world" means

[surreal hill]

got it

ok nice ty

[quaint sequoia]

one

short

day

in

the

emerald

city

[red badge]

One

Short

Day

To

Have

A

Lifetime

Of

Fun

[surreal hill]

Two

Trucks

Having

[[Hyperlink blocked]]

[gritty ermine]

https://tenor.com/view/spamton-deltarune-undertale-mrbeast-big-shot-gif-27614738

[ornate hemlock]

Now's your chance to be a [[BIG SHOT]]

[cinder hemlock]

fuck your tf luis tomb sucks

With respec

[rough basin]

“everything you stand for is an abomination and you disgust me as a person”

“with respect ofc”

[jagged frost]

Hey chat, I’m going to release these 5 characters properly sometime this week so 1.14 is near

But for 1.15 what would you guys like

[lethal abyss]

More TF

I need TF ideas

[jagged frost]

(The characters on each answer don’t mean anything)

[stray otter]

luis doing his very best to not choose the tomb characters

[jagged frost]

It’s so weird I closed my eyes and tapped randomly and those were chosen

Sooooo weird

[lethal abyss]

TF support

[lethal abyss]

Uh, Luis, you might have forgotten to set the poll to have each choice be exclusive.

[surreal hill]

I feel like that was probably intentional? Given how the UI works

[jagged frost]

Yeah that’s intentional

[lethal abyss]

All good

[blazing tinsel]

Now we have a tie ✨

[lethal abyss]

TF first

[cinder hemlock]

Nah

Now we have a tie 👔 ✨

[dull cove]

Bees.

[errant nymph]

YES

[quaint sequoia]

money?

[ornate hemlock]

Untied it

[blazing tinsel]

sorted out the tie again

[ornate hemlock]

Fuck

[steel hinge]

these are all mid dont vote for any

[rough basin]

two different ties

[quaint sequoia]

saving my vote to make a tie happen ❤️

[cinder hemlock]

Luis has to add both now

Outsider and a Townsfolk

[flint crest]

no... the answer is shrimple

he adds an outsider with [+0 or +1 Outsiders]

only then will 4 nations be... r/united...

[cinder hemlock]

@stray otter morbticon..

I summon thee

To aid me in my shitty water ripple

https://tenor.com/view/hideo-kojima-mgs-rocket-metal-gear-idkguyidk-gif-6710607785251356347

DMs

[stray otter]

😭 what

im running a game but feel free to dm ill reply when i can

[jagged frost]

God fucking damn it

[red badge]

Here, Luish, I'll flip a coin

Do you want Townsfolk to be heads or tails?

[gritty ermine]

Silly Ice. Everyone knows that heads is I win & tails is you lose

[cinder hemlock]

If it rolls on its side

We get both Outsider and a Townsfolk

https://tenor.com/view/coin-toss-heads-or-tails-fail-oops-blooper-gif-18278340

Yep that's it

@jagged frost release both

Coin rolled on its side

👽

[jagged frost]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1200826833101402172/1252198691884761220/trueline.gif

[cinder hemlock]

The gif doesn't lie

[flint crest]

sorry, but according to wizard law, he actually needs to release the 1st thrall instead

in the situation that there is a tie, the house rules

[chilly linden]

https://tenor.com/view/felix-the-cat-safe-cracker-opening-a-safe-unlock-the-safe-safe-cracking-gif-18035368

[jagged frost]

Everyone say “Thank you Paradox”

[stray otter]

fuck you paradox

shouldve kept it locked 😔

[clever robin]

clearly we need to take away luis's power for his own good

[gritty ermine]

Kaunda pyothorax

there. I said it, but in a different order

[jagged frost]

Bro what “power” do I have 💀

[clever robin]

apparently the power to lock yourself out of your own thread

[jagged frost]

OH COME ON

anyways

[lethal abyss]

Skull issue

[surreal hill]

you set that one up yourself ngl

[jagged frost]

here's a free character that's kinda nice to use for your games

[lethal abyss]

GIF please

[jagged frost]

HTR:
at night if you want/need wake an evil player show the coach token and 1 or 2, they respond by pointing to players and/or character

[jagged frost]

why?

if you're online just say that lmao

[lethal abyss]

Nah it looks like the other GIF tokens you created

[jagged frost]

i-

yk that i just make tokens like that right?

😭

[lethal abyss]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1234165079646408714/1383951260474151044/IRember.gif

[jagged frost]

sure yeah

[surreal hill]

yea no this one is just a character 😭

[jagged frost]

but also 💀

[lethal abyss]

Luis make it a gif I beg you

[jagged frost]

do it yourself

you're chronically online too

you know how

[mild grotto]

This was stupidly fast

Also it’s 4am go to sleep

[modern ferry]

Above time (04:00 EDT) in your local time · Aug 11, 2025, 8:00 AM

[jagged frost]

wwhhaaaaaaaattt

noooooooo

-# (why do you think i said "too")

[surreal hill]

so anyways im gonna continue to do this without a fabled and you cant stop me

oh wait is it like that so you dont need a special night card

[jagged frost]

mhm

[surreal hill]

thats smart actually

still prob just gonna use a special night card tbh but it's nice that it exists

[jagged frost]

in the same way that you can tell your players sybau w/out invoking HL

[surreal hill]

i thought that was a typo but actually no thats an acronym isnt it

[jagged frost]

mfw my players are all gossiping, juggling, slayer shooting, alsaahir guessing, cult forming, st visiting, klutz guessing, moonchild choosing, yaggaba-

[surreal hill]

if theyre klutz guessing and moonchild choosing that often i think we have another problem

and if theyre saying the yagga phrase that much theyre just good at playing yagga

also script issue?? like idk wht the problem is tbh

[jagged frost]

true...

[flint crest]

absolutely cooked with this one ngl

really beneficial and something id be willing to run when i get to do real time games again when things are so hectic that i cannot keep realistically keep track of it

now we just need hell's librarian but it can also activate against silent people

[surreal hill]

Hell (Fabled): Something bad might happen to players .

[ornate hemlock]

who live

[flint crest]

https://tenor.com/view/welcome-hell-motherfucker-keith-david-tales-from-the-hood-gif-3909159289998613028

[rough basin]

levijank

[cinder hemlock]

Wait

This seems familiar to Moonstone fabled I've seen

[clever robin]

honestly I think Brutal Pipe Murder implements it more elegantly

[tall tangle]

Hi Luis. Just want to report that I just got out of a 15 player game in which the Dealer picked up their own phone, announced that their ability that day was information based, and that the player town was currently debating as good / evil was in fact evil.

For whatever it's worth.

[jagged frost]

What the heellll

[flint crest]

i was doing some late night cryptid readings and i found crawler

even when neither of us are in-play, i still receive his ping...

god bless anti-fearmonger supremacy

[cinder hemlock]

Maybe

Maybe someone you know is a crawler

Be wary

[stray otter]

yeah lmao

someone else wanted an icon that was a mongolian death worm so i just rendered that thing, but they never used it and i told luis he could use it

[flint crest]

i just realized the one thousand and one demons polyhybrid script could be adjusted to be a luis monohybrid

[flint crest]

idk if u still take script submissions but heres what i got

[steel hinge]

how is this a monohybrid

[flint crest]

a 13/5/5/5 setup with a lack of droisoning paired against an immense amount of chaos by the evil team

[flint crest]

cause it only uses luis characters & official characters

i dont spot any leftovers

[dull cove]

That is what monohybrid means

[steel hinge]

doesnt monohybrid mean only 1 hb char?

[flint crest]

i dont think it ever did, and it conflicts with the meaning of polyhybrid

i confused it myself with showcases earlier

[steel hinge]

poly is multiple

multiple hb chars

[dull cove]

Multiple homebrew creators

Not multiple homebrew characters

[steel hinge]

well that sounds kinda dumb

[dull cove]

No?

[steel hinge]

why classify by number of creators

[flint crest]

no, i think it makes sense

[steel hinge]

instead of number of characters

[dull cove]

Hybrid is "Some homebrews & some official"

[flint crest]

cause of attributions and respect to said creators

[steel hinge]

the characters are whats being played so it makes sense for people just getting into playing hb scripts

so they can ease themselves in

[dull cove]

Well that terminology isn't for them

[flint crest]

id just do 'showcase' if its just 1 or few HB characters

[steel hinge]

hm

[dull cove]

It's for script creators

[steel hinge]

aw man

now i gotta change a lot of shit

[flint crest]

its ok, it happens

[flint crest]

also lmk if u spot any weird or bad interactions here

this should still be fine considering the few one thousand one demon playtests were fun

palmist could be slotted out for HP if it doesnt work out well, and courier could find a place here if anything

i feel i might've already stretched the script as is for normal players

this script would seem fine enough in my group going off the assumption you have multiplier liers and people bluffing for various reasons instead of going full-claim jackassry

[blazing tinsel]

But being a 13/5/5/5 doesn't really accomplish anythinh

[flint crest]

vizier could be taken out cause its vizier, and either mirage or hethaesta could go if it adds too much chaos

[blazing tinsel]

Here

[flint crest]

fair, although id be unsure what to cull in this case

[blazing tinsel]

Is go for puzzle, dadelis/vizier and a demon

[flint crest]

vizier dies for being vizier...

dadelis has too good synergy with genie

[blazing tinsel]

You already mentioned it was intended as essensially no drunkess

[flint crest]

not no drunkenness, just little

[blazing tinsel]

It's moreso quite weak when it doesn't have enough support I feel

[blazing tinsel]

Having it be good sided is therefore msh

Mwh*

Meh*

Since its super bag reliant

[flint crest]

fair, but what is vizier going to do for the evil team in this case

[errant nymph]

For Demon I might cut Vortox, there isn’t enough binary info to make it fun to solve imo, and it’d remove the bootleg

[flint crest]

maybe vizier and dedalis go in favor of organ grinder?

eh, im a sucker for dedalis

plus palmist has really good synergy with that aswell

plus idk if i want to keep vizier and moonflower together with full arms swinging

eh whatever, its for luis' script catalogue if he wants to take it or not

he can make final changes if he so wants

[jagged frost]

Looks at demons:
Sees Anubis, Genie: “yeah that sounds about right”

[spice prairie]

yo gang who knows how to run Anubis

like i had a look at the one text game of DOTP that was ran here to see how it works in practice but it had no mechanical effect 😭

[dull cove]

Yeah I've ran it

What do you need?

[spice prairie]

how often should one be anubis turning to be balanced

[dull cove]

I think it depends on a) the script & b) the bag

A -1 anubis should make outsiders more, a +1 anubis should bake townsfolk more

[quaint sequoia]

i loving baking townsfolk

a nice treat

[dull cove]

Also don't make decisions based on what the anubis will do in the future

Because they WILL die the next chance they get

[jagged frost]

Imo, you should be changing characters fairly often

The whole point of Anubis is that every and all claims become valid

[spice prairie]

ye thats what the almanac says so i fw it

but like also idk in larger games if outsiders are becoming tf i worry that evil runs out of bluffs kinda quick but we fuck around and find out

(cant believe the fucking anubis in lady mist's game had NO EFFECT!!!!)

[jagged frost]

In that case then you usually hold off a bit and let the evil team change their bluffs as they wish

[spice prairie]

ye thats so real king

fiwb

[flint crest]

i cant tell if das a good thang or bad thang gurllll

[jagged frost]

It’s a common combo lmao

[cinder hemlock]

Wow..

It's lIus

Luis

[flint crest]

oh my gleeb i forgor the scp travellers are still there

hgfnng...

they can just be removed, doesnt matter all too much

[jagged frost]

You know that you can submit scripts as long as they have at least 1 HBL character right

I don’t mind nor care if the scripts featured have other creators’ characters 😭

[clever robin]

trying to decide what’s the funniest full homebrew script to add matsuraid to and submit

[lethal abyss]

Should I give my homebrews

Wait no they’re boring sigh

[rough basin]

nwc

[jagged frost]

https://tenor.com/view/markiplier-gif-23352642

[spice prairie]

silly script 😭

i lowkey have no idea how to run Autarch-Courier poison timings but i just made up a ruling so we ball

(Autarch starting Anubis thanks to Vigorkilled Genie)

[jagged frost]

Autarch poisons immediately

But also what happened 👀

[spice prairie]

oh no it’s just if a courier gets a task, then nominates, they are poisoned till tomorrow dusk

so the info from today’s task is poisoned sure

but tomorrow, when they receive the the new task, they’re poisoned, but are sober when they receive info that night

anyways i just rules that if that happens the second task, if performed, yields sober info and Courier is back checking but idk

uh also Plague Doctor Autarch is rough idk man

but it’s based af so who knows

also i had at least 5 people ask “why is Anubis good for the evil team” so i feel like if you swap “Townsfolk” and “Outsider” in the ability text it becomes clearer, but idk

[jagged frost]

Eh tbh I’m probably going to chalk that up to them not reading the other half of the ability

But I’ll keep that in the back pocket

[spice prairie]

oh to be clear this IS true but it happened with a significant enough frequency that i felt it relevant to report

[jagged frost]

No yeah absolutely ty

[opaque cloud]

What would you do if the Bloodwrite chose a dead player?

without the optional rule

[jagged frost]

That player learns that they were chosen and then the bidding becomes “What will you give me if I kill the other player”

The alive one still has to bid if they want to offer the most

[cinder hemlock]

Guys

What if instead of Homebrews by Luis

We got Homesillies by Luis

Which is basically like Homebrews by Luis

But instead of Homebrewing

We were just lowk playing silly games in the Luis' home

💖

[flint crest]

pin the tail on the organ-grinder enjoyer 😊

[jagged frost]

Ruh roh

[jagged frost]

*old Organ Grinder

New organ grinder is poo poo

[errant nymph]

Oldgan Grinder, if you will

[flint crest]

[flint crest]

Oldman Gerson, if you will 2

https://tenor.com/view/gerson-old-man-gerson-old-man-deltarune-delta-rune-gif-6182894835232086387

[jagged frost]

OG OG, if you will

[errant nymph]

_ _ , if you will

[cinder hemlock]

It's ok grandpa

You'll see your og og soon

[surreal hill]

Can someone walk me through hierophant

I only understand it on a surface level rn

How do you act on the info, what does it pair well with, etc

[ornate hemlock]

I mean

let's assume you think you have the right world

you check someone you think has the wrong one

you learn either

Helpful:

-They're evil and you're right

-you're wrong and they're good

Unhelpful:

-They're good and you're right

Let's assume the demon is doing very well

in your eyes

you check a player

you learn "unhelpful"

if you think the demon is doing well, this player is not the demon

and of course, you can flip this if the demon is doing badly

[mild grotto]

if memory serves it’s a scale from 1 to 5 no?

[red badge]

If a player is playing outed evil and everyone keeps talking about wanting them dead, learning that this is being very helpful to their team means there's some manner of flaw in your strat

[red badge]

I think it's on an angle based scale

[mild grotto]

ah

[red badge]

altho 5 points along that spectrum is easier to keep track of

[mild grotto]

I’d personally imagine Hierophant script building in a similar place to General

[red badge]

I feel it's like General on scripts where it matters less what a team is doing, and what the individual players are doing

like SnV is 2 teams taking their biggest weapons and firing at each other. Imo, it is rare for any individual evil player to be the "star" of the team because their position relies so heavily on team coordination & scheming. As soon as Poppy Grower or Damsel are in the mix, this dynamic is shattered

[spice prairie]

so Hierophant is cool in that it’s useful to check expected helpfulness against actually helpfulness like if the recently killed player is claiming plague doctor and you get a Helpful it’s kinda uh oh

it’s very much a vibe

also the Angle scale is for in person where you do like an Emperors Thumb, online it’s easier to just use words i find

[surreal hill]

Ok this is helpful but I'm still getting there

How does it interact with alignment shenanigans

If a good player pushed on the demon today and got mez turned tonight do they register as throwing

And what about like. Snake Charmer

[spice prairie]

uhhhhhhh

[ornate hemlock]

this is a night order thing

surely

[jagged frost]

I’d say yes

Bc doing that was helpful to their team

But now it’s an active detriment

[jagged frost]

Depends on the grim

[surreal hill]

If a demon just got snake charmed they should be throwing right

Even though they'll almost certainly be super helpful to their team tomorrow

[red badge]

I mean you gotta think about their new wincons

Like a Demon who's pretty swiftly identified the Snake Charmer, points out they're lying, but keeps them alive to win with good can be playing a rock solid evil game and good game

[surreal hill]

Ooh interesting

Is there any notable interaction with visionary or not really

Like would them knowing the answer/having a good sense of it mean they're helping

Or is it more about how much they get town to trust the demon

Or both, or ST discretion, or secret fifth option

[red badge]

I mean, in truth I'd assess it on a case by case basis, but I'd certainly factor in the question

If Vis doesn't know the question I'd assess how well they're covering for Demon / supporting other wincons

But if they do know they answer they're def helping since they have a wincon in their pocket

[surreal hill]

Makes sense

[jagged frost]

This is the answer for basically every Hiero question

[jagged frost]

chat

how the fuck do i jinx Matsuraid and Balatro

💀

and the other timers for that matter too

ig i just do "If the Balatro is in play and a Minion can die, votes don't count when the Matsuraid nominates a good player."

[clever robin]

yeah that sounds about right

you could maybe do things related to being forced to nominate Minions but that likely gets brute forced by town

[polar bluff]

this is the exact wording Steven uses when he sends these kinds of messages in the TPI slack

[red badge]

Hey Luis, did you ever actually release Balatro?

[mild grotto]

Uh technically?

[surreal hill]

X1 mult if hand contains a high card

[jagged frost]

well i have almost everything ready

i'm just polishing the last things

the 2 actually new characters are almost ready too

[stray otter]

poor unofficial they didnt deserve that

[grizzled cipher]

luis can i add you to balatro

[flint crest]

https://tenor.com/view/donkey-kong-jr-factory-manufacturing-factory-press-stomping-gif-11940609213793615965

[grizzled cipher]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1322307176265682974/1411027844112318554/caption-2.gif

[flint crest]

i hajve 0 idea what the fuck this did

was this like a blow off but in card form

[grizzled cipher]

more akin to putting yourself in crippling debt because youre bored

[vestal burrow]

number go up

[quick fern]

modded balatro moment

[flint crest]

whats debt...

such a scary concept...

can u go into debt for me to demonstrate?

[ornate hemlock]

yeah, how about you

you now need to give me a dollar in a year, as a demonstration cost

[flint crest]

https://tenor.com/view/luigi-mario-doctor-mario-ai-story-gif-10531032281921102700

[grizzled cipher]

(serious question)

[jagged frost]

If you want yeah lmao

[jagged frost]

Hello <@&1272694218204381244>,

Small announcement: if you live in the UK and you are playing with one of my characters online, the images will not load anymore because the shitty shitty OSA has made imgur block all access from the UK. I’m sorry for the inconvenience, eventually I’ll get the images hosted on another website.
-# (Strong emphasis on “eventually”)

[cinder hemlock]

No

[jagged frost]

Bro I just posted it less than a second ago 1) you could not have read it in that time and 2) you must be TERMINALLY online for that kind of speed

💀

[cinder hemlock]

I read after i send the message

Also i got a notification during EATING TIME

So i had nothing better to do

[jagged frost]

Put your phone away, enjoy your food

[cinder hemlock]

I eat while watching youtube

And besides, i already ate it

[finite fractal]

You ate YouTube?

I've heard of mukbangs, but this is ridiculous

[flint crest]

BOOSTER GOLB

[jagged frost]

So theres no exact counterplay in the sense that you can’t really police the speech right

But you can be mindful about what people are saying

If I start saying “I’m the golem, I can nominate if we want to but I’ll just kill them” then I’ll probably obliterate the nominee (depending on if I’ve kept up the madness enough)

https://homebrews-by-luis.notion.site/Genie-2118b1bffab2812a8c60c8155c6b8e01

There are also more tips and tricks here

[serene girder]

Hmmmmm, is this supposed to be a minion that is put on scripts with higher-than-average power-levels?

[jagged frost]

No all my characters are balanced around official characters

Keep in mind that genie is only really supposed to proc twice maybe 3 times

[errant nymph]

It’s also worth noting that if it did work the way Carte presumes, where any statement can be a wish, then trying to get everyone to say the opposite thing would be terrible for good.
If I say “There’s an Ogre in play” as the Genie, I could add an Ogre, and that’s it. If you then have me say “There isn’t an Ogre in play” then the ST can just… not remove the Ogre. It’s a “might” ability after all, the ST is under no obligation to “retract” the wish that was already granted.
But by saying the opposite I also give the ST the ability to remove an existing Ogre if they want. So instead of the ST being able to do nothing or add one, they can now do nothing, add one, or remove one

[jagged frost]

📌 You should only really be granting wishes 1-3 times per game, depending on how much and how long the players were mad, and also how long the Genie has lived.

Rarely is making a player evil due to the Genie’s ability fun, but on occasion, it can be fine.

[errant nymph]

Not all words spoken or all madness done will cause a wish, so having people say the opposite just gives more chances for wishes (assuming they actually uphold madness, since that’s how the ability works)

[serene girder]

I am just wondering, because the example that you gave of giving someone a Golem ability is a whole Boffin ability in some cases, if it happens multiple times, that could be quite a bit stronger. I guess there is a drawback of all if it having to be public, but I am not sure it's that big under the no speech policing policy

[errant nymph]

Correction, it’s an incredibly telegraphed Boffin ability

That’s the biggest difference between Genie and other Minions, and it’s a big weakness. Any power they try to get has a telegraph that can be read into. It’s similar to a Yaggababble. Yes the Yagga can get more kills than any other Demon, but it puts itself at a massive risk in the process

[serene girder]

If you don't need to say it right before nominations, I think you can slip under the radar pretty well, especially if the good team isn't precise in their wording (thus giving cover for any wishes)

[jagged frost]

That “no speech policing” policy isn’t something that the ST upholds — it’s that if the players start to straight up redefine what madness is, you can’t be surprised when the ST uses the new definition

[errant nymph]

If a Genie off-handedly says one time “yeah X is probably Golem” then I as ST am not gonna grant it. They need to be mad, and a single statement like that isn’t madness

[jagged frost]

Also this just leads back to “how long and how much they’ve been mad”

[errant nymph]

Similarly if a player was Cere-mad as Oracle and they one time mentioned “oh btw I’m Oracle” and never said it again, I would be allowed to execute that player

[serene girder]

How would that work with grim pictures? Like, if we are worldbuilding and I am consistently posting my world where my evil friend is the Golem, would that count?

[jagged frost]

If you think that that constitutes convincing everyone that someone is the golem then yes

Like this is nothing new, madness is madness

[serene girder]

The grim picture strategy is incredibly easy to pull off without attracting any attention, from my experience

You don't need to repeat the same sentence multiple times

You just put your evil friend as what they are claiming

And then do this in multiple slightly different worlds, but still leave them as that role

[jagged frost]

Then if that’s a known way to be mad then that’s just something that people will note

[serene girder]

But it's hard to really draw conclusions from it. Like, if I post a picture of 2 worlds where minion and demon tokens are changed, then how will anyone be able to tell I am specifically giving "Golem" their ability? I could be just posting pictures or trying to give someone else the ability or something else entirely

[errant nymph]

To put it simply: I wouldn’t give that. I’d generally run a Genie where they have to be mad as what they want to happen. They aren’t being mad that “X is the Golem”, they’re being mad that “This is the Grimoire, which happens to include X as the Golem”. That’s not specific enough to make something happen, in my view

So unless the Genie wants the entire grim to change into that (which I also wouldn’t grant), it’s not a specific enough wish

[serene girder]

What if they said that X is the Golem in the middle of the conversation (what you called offhandedly) and then posted pictures to bolster the effect of an already specified wish? How would you run that?

[errant nymph]

Madness is always context specific. I don’t think there’s a way to say for certain whether or not I’d grant it or not. It depends on the madness, the context around the madness, the gamestate, other wishes I’ve granted, etc. The important part is that anything that is granted will leave some breadcrumbs or suspicion

[jagged frost]

Another thing you can do if you’re playing against a genie is look at whose worlds just keep adding up

Because either theyve got the demon dead to rights

Or they’ve been screwing with the town

[serene girder]

Usually, unless the game is already essentially solved, the evil team is able to push several incompatible worlds that work with all mechanical info available, so there is usually a third possibility that a player posting worlds is neither completely right, nor intentionally messing with town

I wonder, is there ever a realistic possibility where a Genie can offhandedly mention something just once for it to be granted?

[lethal abyss]

I wouldn’t do it personally myself

It’s very bad STing

[serene girder]

Would that mean that town can counter Genie by looking for patterns (who says what more than one time)?

[kindred flint]

Just like town can counter yaggababble, yes

But it's not very fun

And policing who says what damages towns ability to work together in non-genie games

[serene girder]

I mean, that's still huge, because this is the first realistic thing that a town can do to counter Genie (besides just being left at the mercy of the ST or ignoring the character). If Luis confirms that this is how it works, it will be a very big update for the game we are playing

@jagged frost is that how it works?

[kindred flint]

Sorry what?

[serene girder]

I mean that if a Genie wish needs to realistically be repeated at least twice for it to work, then using that knowledge in the game we are running is going to change our strategy quite a bit

[jagged frost]

Bro if you say something once randomly then that’s not madness

[kindred flint]

I think it depends.

[jagged frost]

There’s no set minimum nor maximum for how many times you need to say a phrase to be mad, not a set phrasing that you have to use

[kindred flint]

If the genie in the town square loudly proclaims.

"I am the Alchemist and I got the Boomdandy ability! I don't have anything else to add because I don't gain any information!"

[serene girder]

That's not offhandedly, though

That's very targeted and specific

[kindred flint]

Sure

[kindred flint]

I was replying to this

[serene girder]

Ah ok

[kindred flint]

I don't think it needs to be repeated twice for "it to work"

As Luis saif

I don't think there is a minimum or maximum

It depends how the genie says it

And how mad they are

Or any evil

[jagged frost]

The truth is that everyone’s going to be pushing a world of some sort, and that’s the real punk rock power of the Genie: you can just keep making worlds and they’ll become true

Or of course if you want to go balls to the wall and “beetlejuice” in a wish of your own then that’s fine too

Like I’ve yet to personally do it, but in a game I might just straight up say “I am the Witch. I am evil. The Demon gains [off script ability]” x3

[serene girder]

So what I am seeing is that for Genie to work one of the following needs to happen:

1. Something is said in a very direct, pointed or obvious manner
2. Something needs to be repeated more than one time

Right?

[jagged frost]

Those are the requirements for madness yes

This is nothing new

Well actually that’s not even it for point 2

Bc if you aren’t sincerely trying to convince people of it then you aren’t mad

[serene girder]

I somewhat disagree. It's very hard to actually get the ST to commit to a bullet list of points for madness. Such a list also isn't spelled out in any official resource (even if it is implied to some capacity). So that's why I am so happy that I now know for sure what exactly to look for

At least with respect to Genie

Because I genuinely see madness run differently in ways that aren't compatible with each other

[jagged frost]

Well that’s kind of the point that I’m trying to make, right, all that madness is is the sincere attempt at convincing the group of something

The way that you get there is up to you

[serene girder]

That's fair, but what I was looking for there is specifically what you would consider to be adherence to the sincere attempt part of that. For example, evidently, sincerely saying something once offhandedly is not enough. This is really important to know in the context of Genie because I've seen people run madness like that (regardless of whether this is good or bad STing, this is what happened), and also because with new homebrew characters there might be a certain pull to run it somewhat differently than usual

[jagged frost]

That’s fair

[serene girder]

Thanks for all the help, patience and clarifications

[modern ferry]

Gave +1 Thanks to @jagged frost (current: #375 - 140)

[jagged frost]

Thanks for being interested in my characters enough to ask for them lmao

[jagged frost]

But yeah no if it’s something insignificant like Chambermaid info and they’re saying “no yeah I can choose these two tonight and see what I get” then I’d let them gain the chambermaid’s ability that night

If it’s something a bit more game-changing then they need to keep that madness up for a bit longer

[serene girder]

I agree, I am fine with evil team getting small buffs essentially for free that relate to information gathering (free Dreamer ability, free Savant ability, etc). But I would be very opposed to easy misregistration, easy droison or easy role-switching

[jagged frost]

Do note though that this isn’t a requirement of madness but rather of the Genie’s ability — “might” is there so you have to actually work for it and sustain the madness for a long enough time

[cinder hemlock]

I think we should wish for Genie to be locked up as the final third wish

It's too wild

Aladdin should've kept him inside the lamp

[jagged frost]

L

[jagged frost]

"Eventually" is now soon!

i've made a python script that just searches and replaces the image key values in all of my jsons

only issue now is the script logos which i didn't name conveniently so those will have to go by hand

[red badge]

I'm like that one Demon that kills people who disagree with them

[sullen gazelle]

i think github limits requests quite heavily to these blobs if youre not signed in so be wary, not 100% sure though

didnt notice anything weird when testing just now but i definitely remember having some problems with github images, maybe it was bigger files

[jagged frost]

Duly noted

[jagged frost]

Also icl chat I might just release a full batch of characters bc

Why not lmao

I had planned for 2 but I might do an even bigger release

20 characters maybe

If so, what do you want to see

Ask and you shall receive

[lethal abyss]

Winemaker

[jagged frost]

Yeah that’s definitely on the cards

[true shell]

character with a silly/unique setup ability please 🙏

hard mode: not a demon

[rustic otter]

Characters, ideally!

-# Please don't hurt me...

[opaque cloud]

A “you start knowing” character

[dense grove]

A minion that changes people's characters

[lethal abyss]

YSK Demon 🔥

[rough basin]

[gritty ermine]

Imagine if Luis did include this

Wouldn’t put it past him :)

[jagged frost]

oh i will

i have a really nice one acc

<@&1272694218204381244>

Version 1.14.0 - Fights, Tights, & Python Bites

• Released the Balatro, Prizefighter, Tea-Leaf, Luchador, and Marquess.
• Rancher's json is fixed on Buy N Sell.
• Chupacabra's json is fixed on Fungal Goat Disease.
• Matsuraid now reads "Killed executees' teams lose" for clarity
• All jsons are now updated and use new github links instead of imgur links (Thank you Starmer)

https://homebrews-by-luis.notion.site/Homebrews-by-Luis-Home-Page-4e1f1063ae2a44d08bc77dd15f9c822c?source=copy_link

[gritty ermine]

(oh yeah, i should probably ask Luis if Whispers of the Singularity & Petal Blizzard make sense to add)

[jagged frost]

oh fair

i'll take a look at them when i get the chance

[gritty ermine]

On my end, I prob have to do KlutzBanana for Petal Blizzard and the new thing

[keen scroll]

Balatro

[jagged frost]

+1 Minion

+1 Mult

[opaque cloud]

Question about the Balatro: If there are both alive Minions that cannot die and alive Minions that can die, can the Demon sink on the alive Minions that cannot die?

[lethal abyss]

No

They must kill the Minions that can die first

The Balatro ensures that 1 Minion must die each night if possible

So if the Demon can kill more than once that night, they are lucky since they can also kill a goodie

[errant nymph]

Only if they’ve already chosen all available Minions

[lethal abyss]

Look in the Examples

Ah nvm

I got confused

[flint crest]

@jagged frost genius HBL character idea:

Zoanlock (Minion) - Twice per game, at night*, choose a player: they become an animal (even if off-script).

* Animals include at-least: Fisherman, Snake Charmer, Organ Grinder, Widow, Rancher, Porcher, Rodent, Trophy Hunter, Chupacabra, Crawler

cooking here in 2 ways

[jagged frost]

funny

[jagged frost]

me looking at piles of voting, nomination, and execution-related characters:

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-meme-i-need-it-i-don’t-need-it-i-definitely-don’t-need-it-thirsty-gif-17101453146721253330

[jagged frost]

Okay i have the roster now

#1346567764331991090 message

it's corny but i'll put the names into that thread

[jagged frost]

For those wondering, the current HBL Fabled characters will not become Lorics because they fix scripts, not supplement them

[lethal abyss]

Isn’t there only 1 though

:Clueless:

[jagged frost]

Soul Binder and Rook

get it right smh

[lethal abyss]

Yeah but
There’s nothing below this

Must have been lost in HBLX translation

[jagged frost]

yeah no that's not updated anymore, it's off of the homepage

[cinder hemlock]

Homebrews by luis X??

[jagged frost]

Me when I can’t stop trolling

[cinder hemlock]

https://tenor.com/view/knee-surgery-meme-grinch-blue-grinch-that-feeling-when-gif-11244637289834073788

You know its presence

It will resurface your memories from the depths of your brain

Whenever you hear the forsaken phrase "knee surgery"

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1386622384458694656/1428724948301774928/image0.gif

[jagged frost]

Hello everyone

These are the new characters (deleted)

Idk how much time I’ll have to post them fully

But I’m just going to post them whenever

Also DS now reads:

||[redacted]||

[lethal abyss]

Is No evil info intended to be outside setup?

[jagged frost]

“No evil info” is not a setup thing

People get that wrong

(See: Poppy Grower, Magician, Toymaker, Summoner)

[jagged frost]

I deleted the list bc I was like “nah I’ll just wait” so if you saw react to this

[red badge]

I didn't check super well but Luis you know I know them

I was really shocked you'd just send the list like that, but I figured it's your collection so you can do what you want

[jagged frost]

It’s a leak 🥀 but fr lmao

[jagged frost]

Oh well, if you saw, take it as a leak lmao (and maybe dm me which ones you liked/didnt?)

[jagged frost]

In fact, discuss it down here https://discord.com/channels/569683781800296501/1346567764331991090

Bc I genuinely want to hear your thoughts before I “release” them (again)

[jagged frost]

here's something fucking insane

this forum has almost 15K messages

lmao

[lethal abyss]

Hm?

[finite fractal]

My two favorite letters

[dense grove]

Is there a master json for this?