Silent Night Speedy Night

[empty mantle]

I'll be adding several posts in a row to catalog version history of Silent Night Speedy Night as well as where I'm at for v2!

This script was created originally for the text game format, especially to take advantage of a "Speedy Night" where the demon (and the SW should the demon be nominated and at risk of death) is the only player who needs to make a submission in the night. That way, even though the Storyteller needs to send out info, it can all be done within a minute. It's possible to run the script without the gimmick, or even to run it live with the gimmick by sending information to characters as the next day begins, but it's also always been a goal to write scripts meant to take advantage of the text game format!

@jade holly @fluid hawk @unreal vigil @pine bone @wanton wagon @frozen locust tagging some people who have expressed interest in running/modifying various versions of Silent Night Speedy Night (and @marble belfry just to bug Clarke)

Here's the original v0.0! 😅 I don't recommend people play this version as it was... way too evil favored actually in the roll (mostly because with as a bluff there was little way to distinguish and too many alt win/losscons)

Here's v1.0!

The version change with best preserved versioning:

Chef, Slayer, Mayor, Klutz -> Inv, Town Crier, Soldier, Golem

None of these are quite 1 -> 1 swaps, but my thoughts are:

-Town needed more ways to find/distinguish Minions/Demons, especially with Goblin. That meant Investigator and Town Crier were top priority adds
-Fewer alt win conditions. Minions are tight on space and Goblin (despite being broken with that town) seems fun for evil, so Mayor and Klutz best to go
-Golem can help with the demon differentiation while replacing Klutz
-Lots of info now on script without a Poisoner (and if Imp/FG + no Drunk/Marionette no misinfo 😬), so thought here was might need to cut an info role. Chef 0 hard rules out Marionette if sober, so that's just a bad combo. Chef should go.
-Enz actually pointed out while post first run I wanted to cut Minstrel, there isn't a way for a Pukka to remain hidden if the poisoned player is executed unless they bluff sinking a kill. So Minstrel stays from my original cutting and Soldier gets added in to help bolster that and remain strong but no info/night pick

There are many v1.Xs out there (official and not) to the extent that... I won't try to go through archives to discern which are and aren't mine 😅 so next post I'll unveil the decently significant v2.0!

[frozen locust]

Me or the other De?

[dusty wave]

Pukka SW isn't a great interaction
there is a kill gap if the pass is during the day and the pukka can't kill themself at night

[empty mantle]

Yes to be clear this is not the most recent version of this script, I was asked by players who have used this script in various versions to log them all!

[dusty wave]

good to know
I think this is a text player thing
something I am blissfully unaware of

[empty mantle]

Here's v2.0! Changes are again not 1:1 but major so I'll outline!

Juggler, Soldier, Minstrel, Golem, Pukka -> Knight, High Priestess, Slayer, Klutz, Ojo!

Thoughts:
-Minstrel: probably the most famous need for a revision 😅 led to infamously fun but unbalanced games. I'll try to version recover some of the maybe more adaptable Minstrel versions in chaos people want to backplay for chaos, but for overall health it should go
-Pukka: ultimately this demon was causing many of the problems on the script, and is the first Evil team revision I've ever made, but it wasn't sustainable. That said, one goal of Silent Night Speedy Night was always a 4-demon 1kpn script, so good thing we now have...
+Ojo: I'm excited about this! The script as is should be a good Ojo script: there's risk of hitting the wrong TF and a lot of interesting picks to make. It makes things like Balloonist also more interesting, which lends to the goal of getting a couple different hard-to-play-with characters to work
-Golem: this one had a lot of requests and... yeah I love Golem and may try to version recover it but for playability the prime version should just have it off. Outsiders are tough here (you'll see in a bit with bonus editions) but in return we have
+Klutz: Klutz left from v0.0 to v1.0 back over a year ago because this was too evil favored, and we'll see how it does back but I do think it fits again in making Outsiders that work with the gimmick but are rough

I won't belabor all of the other changes as those were the big ones. Juggler could probably be easily swapped back for Slayer, but the drama was fun and I think it helps balance teams out in a way I like!

And lastly, a surprise update, because I have heard requests for people to fork this script, especially on the Minion front: I made some quick changes to get a couple of the popular Minion requests in for people who want Marionette out! Baron was the most work needed but I think how I would do it--it also has a fun twist I liked adding in the need to remove Balloonist for Outsider mod to do so by introducing a King/Choirboy game to replace the "half game info role"

[empty mantle]

I mean it's a script, so you can run it anywhere, but yes it's been around for over a year now and run enough in text that it... probably has about 10 different versions all called "Speedy Night" out there. Several people asked about getting new versions to accommodate 1-2 character changes they wanted to make and even larger forks off the structure, so I'm putting it in a thread here finally 😊

It keeps leading to chaotic games like "there are multiple hard triple claims on D2" or "there are three Minstrel nights in a row" or "oh dear god everyone keeps claiming Goblin quick quick shoot them!" It's... become a lot and I'm 🤩 to see it!

One day I'll run it in voice with the Speedy Night. It's not as big a difference there, but I've found there's just a sense of fun at not even being put to sleep just executing then seeing a corpse then having at it again

[fluid hawk]

@empty mantle love the swaps!! klutz is def the perfect outsider for ultimate chaos… that + ojo is such a fun, deadly pair haha- super excited to play test these new versions!!
also live game?? 👀👀

[marble belfry]

Live game 👀

Ping me

[jade holly]

@marble belfry Your wish is my command. One ping for you my dear

[elfin willow]

who am I to say no

[wheat birch]

Hello! I'm not an experienced script writer or even that good at the game in general, but after watching the most recent demonstration of Speedy Nights I had a few humble script suggestions that I hope aren't horrible 🙂 :

I don't like Knight here, with SW/FG/Imp, Knight's already-weak ability essentially reads "YSK 2 players who weren't the demon at some point" which isn't very good 😂 honestly I think a lot of YSK could take its place, Steward would be ok and people like Shugenja idk

Again, I'm not a certified script builder so I'm not great at balancing lots of Townsfolk at once, but in isolation I think the rest all work. I think having both Sage and Farmer is a little odd, I might switch out one with Soldier like I've seen in older versions

I think Klutz should go 😅 it's the only non-demon character here that has a time-sensitive action, and there's a couple solid replacements like bringing back Golem or making the game extra reracky by adding Damsel, but I personally think Snitch and Sweetheart are solid additions

Idk if I like Spy on this script 😅 first and foremost, pairing it with Ojo is a real bummer; Spy equalizes all demon killing power regarding knowledge and decision-making, meaning Ojo+Spy is objectively and fundamentally weaker than Spy paired with any other demon type (for instance, Imp+Spy and Ojo+Spy can both kill the exact same way at night, but Imp can starpass and Ojo can't, meaning Ojo is basically a blank vanilla demon in a Spy game). I like Ojo more than Spy so I'd honestly kick Spy off, especially bc I don't love its interactions with Balloonist.

There aren't a ton of minions without night actions, MM doesn't really work even with Soldier, and I think Boomdandy has too much overlap with Goblin. I would suggest Vizier (if people want it) or just Baron (which isn't great with Fang Gu but eh)

Finally, this might be a personal preferance thing, but I would swap out No Dashii. Outside of single-demon scripts like Extension Cord, I don't really thnk ND belongs in the same script as Drunk or Marionette; Drunk, Marionette, and ND almost feels like half a Vortox depending on player count. Between Lleech, Vortox, and Vigormortis, I don't think Vortox is great on this script, VM sucks with these minions, and I'm not a huge Lleech fan but it can be ok here. Otherwise, by putting Soldier on the script, Pukka at least becomes viable if you want to bring it back.

In sum, the changes I would make:
Knight => Shugenja or Steward
Sage or Farmer => Soldier
Klutz => Snitch
Spy => Baron or Vizier
No Dashii => Lleech or Pukka

So yeah, plz ignore me or tell me that my ideas are bad but those were just a couple of my initial thoughts!

[empty mantle]

These are great thoughts, thank you! I haven’t had a chance to process yet but wanted to say that before I flag for later!

[tropic zealot]

Gave +1 Thanks to @wheat birch

[wheat birch]

Thank you! I'm excited to know what you think 😁

[tropic zealot]

Gave +1 Thanks to @empty mantle

[empty mantle]

Again, these are great thoughts!

My responses (these are all my personal opinions after a little bit, subject to change and also take with the grain of salt that these are just my takes):

-I do get the point that Knight is weak, although I will admit... the confusion with demon mobility was intentional. I need to think on if it's just too relatively imbalanced to be unfun, but my take is that I don't mind TF with various power levels being involved. Between your suggestions, I'd 100% take Steward over Shugenja. I haven't played enough with Shugenja to fully get it, but I'd be really hesitant putting it in a Goblin script as that confirmation can be unfortunate (either off the Goblin or another Evil claiming Goblin)

-Soldier in the current form isn't there because it's too confirmable with the lack of deaths meaning either Soldier was hit or demon sank. The huge problem I kept having with Soldier, Pukka, Minstrel, etc. was that there was just too little protection to not confirm to Town fairly quickly which happened in context, and I can't add Monk, Innkeeper, Sailor, etc. who might plausibly cover that but make choices and break conceit

-Klutz is good personal feedback to log! As anyone will tell you I love Golem and could easily bring it back, but I had soooooo many complaints the other way that it's not Outsidery enough 🥲. Snitch isn't feasible with Spy (will get to later) and Sweetheart... ehhh this is my take but I don't like Sweetheart + Drunk together. I think it's fine if the script is poison light, but my concern is that currently it really isn't, especially with No Dashii (will get to later). Damsel I will say is just probably never coming on this script: it's imo a very script warping character, and I love it in some contexts, but with this script already so focused on Goblin and with Saint coming along for the ride, I don't like the imo much more game-warping concern of Damsel than Klutz, which has that but less so. I also on that note don't like Damsel and outed Evil Minions like Goblin

-The Spy/Ojo feedback is something I hadn't yet considered and is really helpful, thanks again! I like Ojo but also... I like Spy with every other demon. I will say my personal success metric for a custom is that I'd like it to work with generally any random roll of characters once put in the bag, but I do not expect a custom to work with any grabbag of characters as a whole (I'll avoid hatejinxes when possible but like... I'm fine officially saying Spy + Ojo is a "yes but don't" give evil a different minion instead

-I'll tackle Spy/Balloonist separately because I have the same but stronger opinion on Recluse/Balloonist--misregistering them to me is a huge "yes but don't" STing wise unless they're desperate for balance. Like... to the extent that in most cases I'd advise the ST to show a different Outsider instead of Recluse unless B0 Outsiders and Recluse was added, just to avoid that paranoia (obv never consistently stick to this strict a meta, but I agree it's ick). It's on the script because... well otherwise Ballonist is near impossible to scriptbuild around (and I think compared to most customs this is a good showing of Balloonist), and I think Balloonist adds a good set of info here and much needed Outsider mod (my philosophy is custom should have at least 2 Outsider obstructions worth of mods, and that Good Outsider mod or completely hidden Outsiders each count as half--this script gets 1 from Fang Gu and 1/2 each from Balloonist/Drunk). You did make me realize, and I'll correct, that I posted the wrong Baron version of the script 😅. The correct version might intrigue you more, as it has -Balloonist/Sage to +King/Choirboy for similar levels of traps for evil

-Finally, yes. Minions were largely constrained by lack of night actions. MM doesn't work and Boomdandy has overlap but was requested (hence separate version). Vizier is... I'm just vetoing Vizier in a text game script. I just don't like it in text

[tropic zealot]

Gave +1 Thanks to @wheat birch

[empty mantle]

@jade holly I know you're running a possible poll with it, Jarhed's post made me realize I totally messed up when editing Baron (my initial screenshot didn't work on any of the variants and I had to correct) and here's my intended one! It's very different from the other minions actually due to Outsider mod!

[empty mantle]

Last critique being No Dashii: I think that's totally fair and agree ND can feel weird depending on setup, but I will say there are a couple characters I intend to showcase on this script that feel weak on other scripts (Goblin being the biggest) and... No Dashii is a big one for me. The fact that it feels so strong is somewhat intended, as No Dashii is often considered among the weaker demons and each of the others on this script among the stronger. That's why I'm definitely logging this feedback in my player responses to characters, but I don't want to cut No Dashii just because it's finally got synergy with other characters to feel like a threat. There's a reason I cut it rather than Ojo in my intended Baron version (that you had no clue about because I messed up 🙈) and that's because I don't want it with +2 Outsiders limiting TF that much, but otherwise... I don't mind so far. Especially because imo there aren't better demon options

-As you pointed out, Vigormortis doesn't work with these minions. And there's absolutely no minion configuration with nonwaking minions that works here (trust me I checked)

-Vortox is... never going on a Mabel-version of this script (sorry to whoever added it if you feel called out, that is kinda the edit that when someone asked me if I could fix the Vortox/Balloonist interaction made me realize people were forking it independently a bit too far beyond my comfort zone, because I have really strong opinions about why Vortox isn't on this script but I never explained my reasoning so I get it!). So to do so: Probably the single most warping character on this script is the Goblin, and the Saint, the Imp, the SW, (not to mention the TF: Inv, Balloonist, HP, Flowergirl, TC, Artist, Juggler)--so many characters on this script have been built to influence and interact with Goblin claims and Goblin paranoia. Imo the inherent trade-off that needs to be in-play given that danger is that Town can safely skip an execution. It's not optimal by any means in most cases, if you look really closely you'll actually notice that I purposefully made this script lighter on the TF who passively gain lots of info even if Town isn't executing within the passive TF options I had (of continuing info roles, Empath likely has same neighbors, Balloonist has 4 night limit, and UT needs executions--only HP/FG/TC benefit, and of those one's subjective and the others require at least attempts at execution). Adding Vortox to that mix is fine in terms of misinfo but absolutely gamebreaking imo in terms of the execution losscon. That on a script that already has an uncomfortable number of alt wincons makes me hesitant, but that losscon blocking what's meant to be a very difficult but possible tradeoff for Town is why it's never coming on this script

-Lleech can go on a script with no other execution survival, but I dislike it. Especially on a script centered around evil mobility (and Lleech SW is one of the grossest ones imo...) and Goblin--I don't like it being the answer that you should ignore all that chaos and execute Good host candidates instead

-Pukka... gosh Pukka. I wish Pukka could fit back on this script but... I could write an essay on how many problems Pukka was causing for the lack of other explanations for non-deaths. I alluded to it briefly before, but even if I bring all of them back (and I can't even add the ultimate passive protector TL because without DA that's horrifyingly broken levels of execution survival confirmation even with Lleech) I just don't think right now there's enough that fits the conceit to support a Pukka. And even if there was, there aren't any of the killing Minion options to help evil make up the kills per night if they lose out due to the increased Pukka-execution + protection roles, which makes this too good-favored

So even beyond my appreciation of No Dashii, we're kinda there by default

[wheat birch]

Thanks for taking the time to write all this! 😁 I was mostly just voicing some random thoughts and ideas I had whilst mulling the script over, you don't need any permission to ignore anything I say 😂

-I think Steward is a pretty good swap for Knight, it's still a relatively weaker YSK role but it does help, while a Knight, even if totally sober, feels like it's completely useless 😅

-I was sort of thinking of Soldier/Pukka as a bit of a package deal together, but I understand why they neither would effectively balance out the other lol
Kinda same story with Snitch, I think Ojo+Spy being on the same script is really lame and I'd prefer Ojo over Spy, so I thought Snitch was a healthy way to compensate for the absence of Spy. Plus, with Farmer and Sage in the script, both Spy and (maybe) Ojo can render both kind of pointless

-I actually don't hate Balloonist+Recluse for the simple fact that it's more obvious of a possibility; the Spy opinion came in part because Sterling recently used the Spy to register as a Townsfolk, and I don't like that Balloonist can whiff on a character that's obviously going to lie about it as opposed to Recluse which is at least more open

-I really do think Klutz should be removed simply because it breaks Speedy by being a time-sensitive action 😅 I suppose I'm ok with Sweetheart+Drunk because it's so traceable and obscures the outsider count by having the SH needing to hide, and I actually dislike No Dashii+Drunk for similar reasons but I understand why you keep it. Realistically I agree with all your demon opinions, Lleech and Pukka are just the only demons that are like almost ok on this script, but they're really not great lol

-I know Vizier is unpopular, there just aren't a lot of Speedy minions and I really don't like Organ Grinder or Psycopath on this script haha. All in all I think I like the final Baron script the best, but I think the Ojo+Spy, Knight, and Klutz points still stand for consideration at least!

[tropic zealot]

Gave +1 Thanks to @empty mantle

[wheat birch]

Oh wait sorry I just saw Mutant here 😅 I know it's cliche but I really don't like Mutant with no Cerenovus lol. Mutant can just out publicly D1, and the ST either hard confirms them as a good character or lets them hang, in which case the Mutant really isn't a harmful Outsider and doesn't obscure outsider count, or the ST can threaten to let them hang until final 3/4 which I think is a little too feelsbad

[empty mantle]

First and foremost on the Klutz being time-sensitive point: either force Klutz to presubmit while on the block or do typical “Klutz wakes up dead in text” rules which is that game continues without announcement but they cannot speak in town until they make their choice and end the game if appropriate.” Sorry I didn’t catch that mechanical confusion earlier: the ST should not be holding the game for even the actual Klutz, even if this is an executed Klutz who forgot and now must pick tomorrow.

If that leads to a midday Klutz loss it’s a little unfortunate for the timing, but it mechanically makes 0 difference unless a Slayer kills the demon ending the game, in which case I think you say the game is over, reveal the dead Klutz, and institute until the Klutz picks but ban the Slayer as an option—and super niche case where Slayer is last living Good call that an unfortunate situation but Evil win