Vigor Mania | Blood on the Clocktower (Unofficial) | Page 1

hard sorrel Sep 27, 2023, 2:14 AM

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Been play tested three times, had a few changes made to it. Interested to hear more feedback.

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timber raft Sep 27, 2023, 2:31 PM

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best demon, instantly good script

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in all seriousness i doubt i would have fun playing this, given i do not like a bunch of the roles present, but it does look pretty fair

bronze oasis Sep 27, 2023, 6:19 PM

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Poppy+magician redundant and feels bad for magician

timber raft Sep 27, 2023, 6:38 PM

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hosting them together can be cool

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most circumstances it's "yes but dont" but sometimes it can be funny

hard sorrel Sep 29, 2023, 1:12 AM

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I made a few changes + mathemetician and poisoner, - balloonist and mutant

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timber raft Sep 29, 2023, 1:27 AM

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Baron feels weird in a script based around vigor

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Maybe that’s just me though

wet flume Sep 29, 2023, 1:52 AM

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poppy magician is definitely weird

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baron is fine to counteract vig -1, baron godfather is a goated combo

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but personally I don't know why you have so many minions

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just because the slots are open doesn't mean they should be filled

hollow scaffold Sep 29, 2023, 2:30 AM

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I think a mono Vigor script might want to at least toy with Sentinel

wet flume Sep 29, 2023, 2:33 AM

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it has both godfather and baron, imo remove both for sentinel

hollow scaffold Sep 29, 2023, 2:33 AM

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I might leave GF to have a way to go over count sometimes

wet flume Sep 29, 2023, 2:34 AM

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it's just, it sometimes confirms outsiders when they die in the day

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you have to bluff gossip or gambler

hollow scaffold Sep 29, 2023, 2:37 AM

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You can always sink tbf

wet flume Sep 29, 2023, 2:38 AM

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sucks tho

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if ur gonna sink, what's the point of godfather on your script?

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it's half of your character

hard sorrel Sep 29, 2023, 8:07 AM

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its mono vigor, minions are supposed to be strong

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i removed huntsman for the new character shugenja

wet flume Sep 29, 2023, 9:39 AM

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hard sorrel its mono vigor, minions are supposed to be strong

Strong =! Works on script

hard sorrel Sep 30, 2023, 10:56 AM

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Alright guys i made some major changes

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storm caught poppygrower too

wet flume Sep 30, 2023, 12:19 PM

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Isn't vortox pretty stinky with amne HP BH? Even juggler maths gets kinda bad info, whereas savant ofc gets super strong info

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Unless you're justifying BH as steward in vortox?

hard sorrel Sep 30, 2023, 12:36 PM

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Your right bh is awful on this script

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I will add shugenja

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Also I want to make it hard to decipher vortox or not so no artist 😉

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Amne HP fine. How can be sent to second most important player, amne can get cold if they are warm for guess, but ability will function...

wet flume Sep 30, 2023, 12:40 PM

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hard sorrel Also I want to make it hard to decipher vortox or not so no artist 😉

Oracle also pretty good at guessing vortox, even though there's vig imo

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Oracle guaranteed 1 with a good player dead in vortox

hard sorrel Sep 30, 2023, 12:47 PM

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After first day and second night 2 dead, so quite possibly an evil dead

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Shugenja will be funny because they don't know if vortox or not, so not sure if they can trust clock or anticlockwise

timber raft Sep 30, 2023, 6:14 PM

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wet flume Oracle guaranteed 1 with a good player dead in vortox

think best strat would be for poisoner to hit vortox n1 to prevent this

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but that depends on a poisoner spawning

hard sorrel Sep 30, 2023, 8:57 PM

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shugenuja in for clockmaker

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wet flume Oct 1, 2023, 12:10 AM

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Ohhh yeah

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Good point, poisoner useless against more than half the charactsrs in a vortox game

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...

hard sorrel Oct 1, 2023, 1:21 AM

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If poisoned you can give true info so you can mislead

wet flume Oct 1, 2023, 1:42 AM

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You cannot 😩

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If you want to do that it's a house rule

hollow scaffold Oct 1, 2023, 2:13 PM

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you could add Pit-Hag or Mezepheles as a different misinformation role in that they take abilities off of a Townsfolk

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without interacting negatively with Vortox

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Plague Doctor and Mez also seems very fun

deft portal Oct 1, 2023, 3:27 PM

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PitHag would work nice instead of Poisoner

red torrent Oct 1, 2023, 3:34 PM

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a poisoned townsfolk in a vortox game still must receive false information

hard sorrel Oct 2, 2023, 4:39 AM

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we had a really fun and chaotic game where managed to solve the demon near the end

hard sorrel Oct 3, 2023, 2:12 AM

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Harpy works well on social scripts because mechanical info isn't so damning

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One Strat as cerenvous is if you learn the stormcaught poppygrower to cerenvous them all game till they are executed

hard sorrel Oct 3, 2023, 7:43 AM

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New update,

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lil monsta, goblin, pithag, empath and noble are the additions

ivory echo Oct 3, 2023, 8:26 AM

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wet flume Good point, poisoner useless against more than half the charactsrs in a vortox g...

you can poison the vortox

wet flume Oct 3, 2023, 11:46 AM

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Yeah

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One night to do something :/

hard sorrel Oct 3, 2023, 12:15 PM

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Is that a good enough reason to put it off the script?

wet flume Oct 3, 2023, 12:22 PM

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wet flume You cannot 😩

^

hard sorrel Oct 3, 2023, 12:43 PM

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Okay I think I will swap poisoner for baron so there is some more outsider modification

hollow scaffold Oct 3, 2023, 12:58 PM

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Careful putting Baron and Engineer together

bronze oasis Oct 3, 2023, 1:31 PM

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Put some protection on the script so poisoner can target vortox later in the game

hollow scaffold Oct 3, 2023, 6:01 PM

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This feels like a good Monk script

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Monk also plays well with Vortox so

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Although I don't love that sort of role with Lil' Monsta personally

hard sorrel Oct 3, 2023, 10:07 PM

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baron - poisoner

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hard sorrel Oct 4, 2023, 2:22 AM

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baron isnt great for vigor and engineer

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so i put mezepheles on

hard sorrel Oct 4, 2023, 10:09 AM

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okay swapped high priestess for steward as better for vortox

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also added a spirit of ivory in case of multiple mez

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deft portal Oct 4, 2023, 12:37 PM

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This turned out to be a really good script, congrats!

bronze oasis Oct 4, 2023, 3:40 PM

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I think if Im Engi i always make Vortox

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Mainly cause making a vortox super buffs philo and savant. Imagine 2 savant getting 2 false statements every day

sullen grove Oct 4, 2023, 4:00 PM

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When Philo is on a script, you have to ask yourself "is there anything that a philo will automatically do"

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on this script, they will turn into poppy grower

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which to me signifies that it isn't super great

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baron is more important on this script than pit hag + mez

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it's quite a bad combo, especially since there is a poppy grower on script, making pit hag quite not good here

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my suggestion: no need for philo, no need for pit hag

ivory echo Oct 4, 2023, 4:14 PM

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bronze oasis I think if Im Engi i always make Vortox

pit hag can solve that

ivory echo Oct 4, 2023, 4:15 PM

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sullen grove my suggestion: no need for philo, no need for pit hag

I don't really agree, you kind of need pit hag so engineer isn't totally broken

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and I don't think philo poppy grower is necessarily optimal

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philo engineer might be too strong though idk

sullen grove Oct 4, 2023, 4:23 PM

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philo is not needed

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pit hag is not good, and this script needs actual... outsider mod

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because pit hag / mez is a really really bad combo IMO

deft portal Oct 4, 2023, 7:09 PM

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hard sorrel

I liked this version more

hard sorrel Oct 4, 2023, 8:22 PM

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I removed philo and mez for bounty hunter and psychopath

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I added the djinn the psychopath may never hold the lil monsta

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I agree engineer vortox is pretty optimal as fixed demon, you know info is false and also if poopygrower dies evil doesnt learn team. So i think bounty hunter is a good measure against that as then you would learn a good instead of an evil. Bounty hunter will just add to the chaos of this script well imo. The you start knowing roles might prove very strong in determing if the initial demon is vortox though.

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i want pithag so evil can change demon and or create more chaos and outsiders

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i think steward is a bit too obvious when subtlety is a theme of the script. I like the addition of monk as you can ensure someone doesnt get false info due to vortox, also secondarily if there is no deaths in the night it could be the monk or the pithag demon change

hard sorrel Oct 4, 2023, 9:15 PM

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i renamed the script to Stormed Siege

sullen grove Oct 4, 2023, 9:54 PM

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I still once again ask: why is every role on a script and what is it’s purpose

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Mathematician does one thing: detect wrong info due to vigor killed minions

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If a role is effectively useless on a script, it should be replaced or others roles need to be fixed to make it better

red torrent Oct 4, 2023, 9:57 PM

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vortox bounty_hunter vortox poppy_grower

sullen grove Oct 4, 2023, 10:40 PM

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Vortox BH isn’t awful

red torrent Oct 4, 2023, 10:43 PM

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its not awful

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but its not a great interaction

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if you can figure out its vortox its not awful, rather

hard sorrel Oct 4, 2023, 10:44 PM

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I agree, now that the script is mult-demon mathematician probably doesnt belong

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mathematician, + soldier

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hollow scaffold Oct 4, 2023, 10:55 PM

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I personally don't love Solider with Lil' Monsta, but that's your call

hard sorrel Oct 5, 2023, 12:12 AM

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I would like to thank everyone who contributed to improving the script!

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I will submit it for the shugenja script contest.

hard sorrel Oct 5, 2023, 1:03 AM

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i dont believe soldier is a good addition as stormcaught poppygrower already cannot die at night

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i think chef works well

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also i swapped psychopath for witch as psychopath doesnt work really with lil monsta without a bootlegger

hard sorrel Oct 6, 2023, 7:37 AM

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Had a very entertaining and chaotic game with the following characters in play, shugenja, bounty hunter, snake charmer, oracle, monk, juggler, seamstress, poppygrower, plague doctor, harpy, pithag and vigormortis. Poppygrower survived till final 3 and evil team didn't know each other but managed to win!

hard sorrel Oct 16, 2023, 12:21 AM

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No stormcaught poppygrower anymore and a few more changes made

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sullen grove Oct 16, 2023, 1:39 AM

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Why exactly is there a philo here?

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Engineer doesn’t work well with this minion set, you have every incentive to make a godfather / harpy on the first night

hard sorrel Oct 16, 2023, 1:46 AM

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Philo means higher chance of a poppygrower for one. Also I don't see why it doesn't work well on the script

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I don't think there is an optimal engineer play, and if there was I don't think it is ensuring godfather harpy.

sullen grove Oct 16, 2023, 4:12 AM

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Philo and poppy grower aren’t great together, because it is strictly optimal to do that

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Plus, philo poppy grower isn’t fun? I can’t think of many people who think “man I’m sure had so much fun the philo went poppy grower instead of x”

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This script also should be pretty easy to tell if it is vortox or not, which makes a lot of info weaker

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Oracle, empath, juggler, seamstress

hard sorrel Oct 16, 2023, 7:21 AM

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I removed snake charmer for ravenkeeper

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philo has a many options they dont have to philo poppygrower. This script is more difficult than you would think in determing whether it is vortox or vigor.

hard sorrel Oct 16, 2023, 1:04 PM

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Played a 14p game of it and most people thought it was vigor to the end. The demon was vortox. There were 2 poppygrower and one survived too final 3

sullen grove Oct 16, 2023, 2:31 PM

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Do you want the ravenkeeper to hate their life?

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They either get wrong info or look like a vigor killed minion

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If you want a role that gets info on death, sage is much better

ivory echo Oct 16, 2023, 3:29 PM

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sage is far easier to bluff as a vigor killed minion than RK

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I think it's ok

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they'd both be fine

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RK is a lot better at figuring out the demon type

sullen grove Oct 16, 2023, 3:33 PM

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but sage can always act on its info

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ravenkeeper half of the time has useless info

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sage at least learns 2 players that aren't the demon in a vortox game

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also, swap godfather -> baron

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and remove engineer... it doesn't work

bronze oasis Oct 17, 2023, 8:54 AM

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sullen grove Engineer doesn’t work well with this minion set, you have every incentive to mak...

Nah Im engineering a vortox into play.
Vortox+savant, vortox+pg, vortox+philo that wont meaningfully drunk info. Engi vortox is the optimal play

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Sure you screw over the number learners, but they were a 50/50 to be screwed anyways.

hard sorrel Oct 17, 2023, 12:30 PM

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I thought about putting knight in but it might be too strong if vortox

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I might prefer knight to 🐦‍⬛ keeper tbh

hollow scaffold Oct 17, 2023, 1:06 PM

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I think just leave it as is with GF and Engineer

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Baron and Engineer don't play well together

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But Engineer plays well with two demon scripts

sullen grove Oct 17, 2023, 2:47 PM

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hard sorrel I might prefer knight to 🐦‍⬛ keeper tbh

Neither work

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Engineer makes vortox N1, knight learns it is one of two players

hard sorrel Oct 18, 2023, 11:35 PM

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I took out Raven keeper and replaced it with cannibal

sullen grove Oct 19, 2023, 12:08 AM

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Why exactly is engineer here still?

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I struggle to see how it benefits this script

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And still, 5 outsiders on a script that can only reach 3 is pointless

hollow scaffold Oct 19, 2023, 12:29 AM

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It's not because there can be more variety in what's in play

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And Engineer is still a pretty cool role here imo

hard sorrel Oct 19, 2023, 6:46 AM

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I removed cannibal because too strong. And i removed engineer because it makes it too easy to know what demon is in play a lot of the time. Added steward and king, which are good additions rounding out the script.

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I think King could be powerful in determining what demon is in play. Also interesting interaction with vortox.

hard sorrel Oct 19, 2023, 7:41 AM

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I decided a stormcaught king would be really interesting, so the stormcaught king is maybe the final change to the script?

hard sorrel Oct 19, 2023, 10:34 AM

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Of all characters king seems most appropriate to be Storm caught. Ability only kicks in when more than half the town is dead, assuming no choirboy.

bronze oasis Oct 19, 2023, 2:05 PM

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Stormcatcher should have a script built around it, not be tossed in at the last second

sullen grove Oct 19, 2023, 2:56 PM

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^ This

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Also, you have poppy grower and philo poppy grower, a role being too strong is already present

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If you want intrigue, put in alchemist

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It works well enough with harpy, witch, godfather

bronze oasis Oct 19, 2023, 5:48 PM

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Alch gf is way too strong, alch mez is not fun

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Alch witch is kinda both strong and not fun

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Alch+cere is fine, alch+harpy is ok

hard sorrel Oct 19, 2023, 8:27 PM

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notably the script began with a stormcaught poppygrower which was too strong/not fun

red torrent Oct 19, 2023, 8:27 PM

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who ever thought that was a good idea outside some really nice scenarios

sullen grove Oct 19, 2023, 9:51 PM

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bronze oasis Alch gf is way too strong, alch mez is not fun

alch godfather with a vigor in play, making it potentially zero outsiders?

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or an alch godfather doing a godfather -1 learning a drunk?

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it's strong, yes, but there are definetly more OP alch abilities by a lot

bronze oasis Oct 19, 2023, 10:12 PM

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thats fair

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youd still learn who the drunk is and get a chance to murder the demon if theyre executed tho

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actually i think you always tell a gf there are no outsiders in play cause vortox can lie

hollow scaffold Oct 19, 2023, 10:17 PM

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I actually think Alch GF is pretty good I like that interaction

red torrent Oct 20, 2023, 12:58 AM

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alch gf is good imo

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just a tad strong but compared to other alch options?
perfect

hard sorrel Oct 20, 2023, 1:36 AM

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I am thinking about removing damsel and adding another minion instead.

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A minion outing themselves to damsel guess could be very damaging if they miss...

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And 5 outsiders isn't necessary on this script

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I am thinking either goblin or baron are a good addition even though neither are good vigor killed minions.

bronze oasis Oct 20, 2023, 1:46 AM

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hard sorrel A minion outing themselves to damsel guess could be very damaging if they miss.....

...thats the point?

hard sorrel Oct 20, 2023, 1:46 AM

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Sure but i think it misses the point of the theme of the script

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Goblin probably is the better addition as it is poppygrower script.

hard sorrel Oct 20, 2023, 2:09 AM

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damsel out goblin in

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red torrent Oct 20, 2023, 2:12 AM

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do you consider every change of 1 character a version? 27 is a lot for so little time

hard sorrel Oct 20, 2023, 4:26 AM

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not exactly, i just memed a large number to express that it has been through many changes

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I believe Ojo is a good addition to the script. Mezepheles has been removed.

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red torrent Oct 20, 2023, 4:33 AM

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how fun is Ojo Poppy Grower

hard sorrel Oct 20, 2023, 4:47 AM

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well the design of the script is if you find out if it is vortox or not that is very powerful. So an ojo choosing poppygrower will out the demon type immediately.

hard sorrel Oct 20, 2023, 12:13 PM

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I don't think monk is that useful I may replace it with snake charmer which will give the good team a powerful demon finder.

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Maybe Philo could be replaced as well?

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I think snake charmer and knight will be the additions. Knight works much better with a 1/3 chance of vortox.

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Philo feels bad because if they don't go poppy good team will be disappointed

red torrent Oct 20, 2023, 7:38 PM

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you're talking about a script where if the poppy grower dies immediately, the minions might doubt they learned the correct demon/minions

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imagine the vortox snipes the PG n2 and minions assume Ojo

sullen grove Oct 20, 2023, 9:03 PM

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I think you need to back to why exactly was this script created

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right now I see a script that is trying to be a lot, but has no actual theme

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go back to the theme of the script, and workshop characters that fit that theme. Then, see what other characters fit to make it balanced / fun

hard sorrel Oct 21, 2023, 12:18 AM

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Latest addition of sc and knight

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IRS minions should be wary of vortox pg info and wait for the demon to come to them thats the solution to that.

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The theme has changed as it used to be a solo vigor script. Now the theme is one has to combine mechanical and social info to determine the demon type and hence begin to solve the puzzle that has been unfolding.

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I thought it would be cool if pg in play, demon is snake charmed and then later pg dies. New demon will then learn there evil team haha

solar wadi Oct 21, 2023, 12:42 AM

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Knight cannot function in a vortox world unless you add recluse.

red torrent Oct 21, 2023, 1:43 AM

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some people say it cannot function even with recluse

hard sorrel Oct 21, 2023, 3:24 AM

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1/3 chance of vortox, knight may or may not be in play. Kinght could be bluffed. I don't think it doesn't work on this script.

hard sorrel Oct 21, 2023, 3:57 AM

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Last game I played was 13 players where demon was vortox, poppygrower in play. Evil team won as demon bluffed stormcaught king till the end.

solar wadi Oct 21, 2023, 4:48 AM

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If you get knight, you know it’s not Vortox. You said the theme is to determine demon type using social and mechanical info, and I think being able to hard meta the demon based on your token does not accomplish that.

hard sorrel Oct 21, 2023, 4:50 AM

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How so? Could be knight and vortox both in play?

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Knight you learn two players one of them is the demon. (Vortox in play)

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I think knight can work with vortox on a multi demon script. And also if you really don't want vortox knight you can make the knight the drunk.

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Every time I played this script it was very difficult to solve the demon type. And that was before I added Ojo.

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Maybe a low player count game it is a bit easier.

solar wadi Oct 21, 2023, 4:55 AM

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Vortox: all info is false. It’s like Savant having to get two false statements. As written, both Knight pings have to be the demon. You can make them the drunk in a Vortox game, which is a nice gotcha moment, but if thats the only way an interaction works, don’t put it in.

hard sorrel Oct 21, 2023, 5:03 AM

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That's not how knight vortox works. If knight and vortox are in play, the knight learns two players one of which is the demon. Knight says you learn two players that are not the demon. You only need one of the players to be the demon for the knight to yield false information to satisfy vortox.

hollow scaffold Oct 21, 2023, 8:08 AM

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I think that Vortox being a possibility makes Knight less of a 'letdown' role in a lot of ways

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It might be very good sometimes

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But either way, having the Drunk on script balances that out imo

hard sorrel Oct 23, 2023, 1:13 AM

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Ojo lunatic is really interesting as they can help the demon snipe poppygrower and other powerful roles if the demon is not ojo

hard sorrel Oct 23, 2023, 7:27 AM

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I decided juggler takes up too much time and isnt great with vortox as can be used as a vortox check or might not get useful info.

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Sage is the new addition

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hard sorrel Oct 23, 2023, 9:13 AM

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I think sage is too strong in non vortox games, so I decided to replace it with farmer.

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There is potential for evil team to bluff farmer in a vigor game

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Also i dont think harpy is particularly useful especially if a poppygrower is in play. I think mez is more useful.

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Sage, harpy out. Mez, farmer in.

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bronze oasis Oct 26, 2023, 1:00 AM

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Because you have both PG and Farmer with Ojo, I would suggest Philosopher

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Also when did you put 5 start knowing roles geez

hollow scaffold Oct 26, 2023, 1:07 AM

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I'd be tempted to cut Chef for Philo

hard sorrel Oct 26, 2023, 1:16 AM

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I played a 15 player game, where snitch bluffs had to overlap with demon bluffs.

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Night 1 is really long, but the subsequent nights are rather short.

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I am thinking this script could benefit from more than 13 townsfolk so it supports large player counts?

hollow scaffold Oct 26, 2023, 1:30 AM

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It might just be a matter of reducing the amount of non bluffable Outsiders

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If 11 players are good then there should be 6 remaining out of play characters

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That are good

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But Drunk and Lunatic can't be bluffs

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So maybe Drunk for Puzzlemaster is worthwhile?

hard sorrel Oct 26, 2023, 1:35 AM

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Hmmm maybe

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I like drunk as it hides outsider count and can hide vortox or non vortox game.

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I am thinking about removing the poppygrower.

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I would remove mezepheles too, and add spy and bounty hunter

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Imagine a vortox game where bounty hunter pings the spy hahaha

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Now people will wonder is it an Ojo game or a spy game.

hard sorrel Oct 26, 2023, 2:20 AM

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sullen grove Oct 26, 2023, 2:37 AM

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hard sorrel Imagine a vortox game where bounty hunter pings the spy hahaha

You can’t mechanically do that

sullen grove Oct 26, 2023, 2:55 AM

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Unless you house rule that, the vortox’s ability says that townsfolk abilities yield false information. A spy registering as good is still true information, as it is an evil character

hard sorrel Oct 26, 2023, 5:36 AM

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oh true

bronze oasis Oct 26, 2023, 9:14 AM

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sullen grove Unless you house rule that, the vortox’s ability says that townsfolk abilities y...

Its a matter of interpretation. I have not seen an official ruling, but every ST ive played with and myself personally would rule you can show Recluse and Spy as anything in a Vortox world

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Same for the Fortune Teller's Red Herring, it would show up as not the demon even tho its technically correct information

sullen grove Oct 26, 2023, 2:14 PM

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I agree with the FT ruling, otherwise FT becomes insanely strong in a vortox world

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I'm not a huge fan of using spy / recluse to hide vortox, I think it goes against the spirit of the character

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but that's just my view on it

bronze oasis Oct 26, 2023, 8:33 PM

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Theyre the same mechanic, misregistering.

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And it goes against the spirit of recluse/spy to force them to show up as themselves in a vortox game

hard sorrel Oct 26, 2023, 9:12 PM

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well dont worry i think bh is a mistake on this script, cannibal instead to help town

#Vigor Mania